I have background in photography and spent years on camera gear forums. There you see many people, with actual portfolios, talking about their gear and workflows, and why they made those choices for themselves. On the other hand you people that vigorously try to convince *others* why they should choose a piece of gear. Those people rarely if ever show their own work. And it made me realize: these people just have different hobbies: some use gear because they love photography, others use gear because they love technology. They love cameras just for the sake they are cameras. And I guess this is true for every hobby/profession that requires technical gear. There is a large percentage of people on synth forums that do not have a real intend to make music, they just like gear. And that is fine. But it is good to recognize it, and realize where someone comes from. I am always interested in choice that people make who actually create things, and it's their opinions that I value. Thanks for your video. I agree 100%!
sometimes its too easy to speedrun a beat on a computer. a lot of people like easy breasy video games, many others want fromsoft joints, most want some mix of both.
I'll say that sometimes it's so easy to get something done on software now it moves faster than my critical thinking skills and I'll just do the easiest thing to get to the next step, which can sometimes make worse stuff. But also that's just discipline I lack
Great perspective. When anyone asks the hardware vs software question, my answer is always both. Hybrid is the way for me, but I would never judge what others use to create...that's just weird, in my opinion
I spent years just not enjoying trying to use Ableton. Bought a Circuit Tracks and fell in love with physical hardware and the tactile experience. Now I'm almost completely DAW-less with an MPC Live and some synths and it just feels right to me. To each their own, follow what inspires you.
I think for most people a software program is just too big to completely master. And it's intimidating working with things you don't fully know like the back of your hand.
@@jonmakesbeats Even though I use a PC most DAWs have way to much going on now. Everyone is converging on the same feature set with tons of synths, samplers, drum machines, etc. I find myself using my daw to record samples and loops with midi controlling some of the devices. I could probably just use ACID or Cubase from like 2002 - 2005 to do what I do. Something like Bitwig is amazing on paper but is a mess. Most old school hip hop would basically be 8 to 16 audio tracks with almost no eq or effects.
this is such a genius video jon and thanks for putting these thoughts into words for people. i used an mpc 2000xl for yeeeears with just a barebones tape recording setup. i wanted to learn that way. now i have and fully endorse a full hybrid studio with a bunch of gear all synced up to ableton! best of both baybeee
Both systems have their advantages. I started writing in the 90s and to me.”DAWless” just means.” how everybody did things in 1987.”. I like that writing process. I learned how to write using samplers and sequencers and a tape machine. But I’ve also finished albums using a DAW. It is an awesome tool! It is a great place to finish a piece. Unfortunately, for me, the spark of inspiration just isn’t there when I’m sitting in front of a computer with a mouse. I like to treat my DAW as a giant tape deck that lets me capture a performance and then edit and tweak that performance until it’s a finished recording. And I agree, 100%. Unless you’re in a production environment, where you have to be working on a clock to a deadline and be able to recall exact settings from something you worked on three months ago because a client needs a new version of it, then you have the luxury to do whatever makes you happy. Go with the workflow that brings you the most joy. If it’s hardware, use hardware if it’s software, use software. Neither is wrong.
That was a very thoughtful, professional answer. Thank you for not falling for dismissiveness, even though the question does get tiresome. Hats off, you're a great dude
I learned to commit to sounds and sequences on limited hardware samplers and synths, this makes it easier to work with a computer and not get carried away by all the options it offers. Push was pretty much the reason why i sold a lot of my equipment, i loved the workflow from the first iteration onwards and it gives me the feeling of working with an instrument rather than a DAW plus all the benefits a computer offers when i need them.
My biggest reason is that I spend 9+ hours a day looking at a computer screen for work and have for the last few decades. I relate computers to work and when I want to make music, I don't want to feel like I am at work.
this was such an inspirational video man! thank you for emphasizing the core of making music, having fun, which is something I've been lacking focusing too much on "potential" and feeling overwhelmed.
Glad I stuck around for this one, you are spot on about the art. we are in such a rush to complete things and meet deadlines.. vs chilling and creating..
Jonwayne! love seeing where you’ve taken your art and how you’ve evolved into such a even more humble and well spoken dude. Jamming with you and Edwin back at his parents crib how ever many years ago is still a core memory. - Elan
I love watching you make music on the octatrack it’s so cool, it makes me want to do it. Realistically though I know deep down I wouldn’t want to put the time in to learn it. FL studio is my most suited way for me, which in a way disappoints me because I get tempted to use standalone. I’ve learned my lesson though, stand-alone isn’t for me. Whenever I try standalone I get frustrated and reminded I can do everything on my computer, for cheaper, without getting into debt. Probably why i like your videos so much, I’m living vicariously through you 😂
After using Reason for a long time, I made the switch to hardware a little over a year ago (MPC One). I'm not going back. I have a lot more fun creating music on my unit. When you said, "...It's a dedicated zone...." that is my sentiment EXACTLY! I found that I was tinkering too much when creating on a computer. I found myself clicking with the mouse on what seemed like a never-ending variety of VSTs, plugins etc., taking time away from actually creating music. I was always searching for a new VST to add to my repertoire, making myself crazy instead of creating. Working in the box is an amazing feeling, I actually enjoy the limitation it presents. And though you could connect a midi controller to the computer (which I did for the 'hardware feel'), it's not the same as a hardware sampler.....the feel is different on my MPC and I have SO MUCH more fun creating beats.
Very honest and informative, Greatly appreciated! I personally use hardware and a DAW, but I learned a long time ago your workflow is just as much of a Art-form as the music we make. No explanation needed do you!
There’s so many aspects to this conversation. I love this part mentioning efficiency. There’s absolutely a part of art at least individual world where efficiency does matter, especially in mediums like printmaking.
Good arguments. I agree - do what feels fun for you. I've been selling all my gear and I'm getting back to using DAW software and virtual synths. I wasn't having fun with the restrictions and wanted more room to make things easier - and more fun. Also, I didn't have a dedicated space for all the devices, cables, mixer etc. It felt too much. If I want restrictions and sometimes I do, I come back to Amiga and make a mod for an Amiga demo. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Appreciated.
To me, I just went from primarily using FL20, moving to a DAWless setup w/ an MPC, a few synths and a couple midi controllers. What I love about DAWless is I feel more connected to the music I create. That’s really it.
Fuggin inspirational. I might have needed to hear this a looooong time ago, it would have saved me so many thousands.... :D Now I now better, but for aspiring artists who are still unsure , this video should be mandatory
Well said. For me, the biggest reason of buying equipment is identity. I’m from the upper class Midwest and there’s nothing around me that makes me feel valid in the music world. I’m not worried about what others think yet because I’m so caught up with how I view myself. I’ve never even got around to finishing a beat on fl alone because I always quit “knowing” I’m just another kid with a dream too big for himself. But every great musician is a kid just like that that ignored those feelings or was to busy having fun with it they never realized how big the dream was. Messing around with gearboxes helps me forget about publishing a record or about where I’m going and I just make music. By definition analog controls are better because music is better than no music.
As a person that can't play instruments, making music on a computer has actually driven me to want to buy more gear so that I have more control over my sounds.
that was a really nice explanation of the discussion from your perspective. thanks for sharing! i recently decided to put all of my instruments back in their box and for me it was a fantastic decision. for years i was stuck in the mindset of "a real musician has real instruments" which only lead to me getting more and more instruments which i never used enough to build muscle memory but always feeling like i need to use them because my young self would've killed for my setup. in the end this just meant that i barely turned them on for years and in turn also meant i was just not having fun. when i decided to put them all away i refound much of the magic i felt when starting out but instead of being a broke teenager i now had sick instruments waiting for me to be discovered. my only rule is: i get them out when i want to use them and when i'm done i'll put them back in the box. for everybody in a similar situation, give it chance. i found child like fun in music making again and it's awesome!
I own an Octatrack, an MPC, and several synthesizers. I've created a lot of music using Reason and Ableton. However, the most fun I've had making beats has been with a $30 microcontroller that runs Dirtywave M8 Headless.
I went the opposite way, and switched from hardware to a laptop, and I'm having tons of fun with all the plugins. We are extremely lucky to be able to choose from all these tools to express ourselves musically.
I think you should use whatever makes you happy and creative. I have used both, and both have their merits. I like a hybrid setup. When I just want to play some keys, practice, etc, I like to just turn on a hardware keyboard and play. But, anyone who remembers the old days of having to do multiple passes can appreciate modern tracking. At the end of the day, the listener cares about whether they like the song or not, and whether it sounds good. The people that care about the tools are other producers. How often do you go out to eat and care about what brand of pots or knives the chef used? That is how the general listener is to a producer's beat.
Man. I feel you. I have had to make a sacrifice to do media composition. The complexity of writing for full orchestra and writing to picture it just requires a big rig with a huge pallet of sounds and cubase to manipulate everything in a complex way. My mpc sits in the corner untouched most of the time. I tried a project with the mpc running drums but it just slowed everything down too much trying to run a sequence that matched a 15 min film. I think the new 3.0 software may change some of that since I can build a proper arranger that matches these long ass sessions I have. Long story short… I miss the simplicity of picking up my bass and just playing.
This is a good video. I struggle with it all the time. I have to decide between using my MpC or FL Studio in my MacBook. In the end, I decided to use whichever I chose that day.
Cheers to that! Artists can choose a medium. There's truly nothing more correct to use in the world of art if it is what someone can make good stuff on and enjoy. I can love both digital and analog, I can love artists who don't know music theory and musicians who know more than I ever comprehend, and I can love master audio wizards and pure wild expressionists. In fact, I can AND do! I went to school for game art and had a ton of work with traditional artists and digital artists of all types. In that environment, you don't obsess about pure efficiency; you obsess how to keep your brain loving what you are doing so you can actually finish something! Everyone made cool stuff or had cool ideas, but finishing requires that special sauce of truly loving it
Preach dude. I've fiddled with stuff since the late 90s. I have the most fun with a mixed setup, but sometimes just setting down with a sampler and a synth gets the job done...
Perfectly put - 100% agree on every single point. I'm reminded of something an old school engineer told me about gear in 1990, that I never forgot: "no one ever remembers a perfectly recorded crappy song. It should always be about the music". Salute!
I recently went back to a 2000xl instead of ableton and a midi controller, and though the learning curve is real, I'm having way more fun, too. I really relate to what you were saying about efficiency. What I find is that the slower workflow of the older MPC makes me pay more attention to every step. I really experience an audio sample differently on an MPC versus just looking at the waveform and popping slices into it. The way I see it, actually understanding a limited amount of choices is way better than having a bazillion choices and just kind of going with the easiest one. Honestly, I'm still trying to find the best way to use my computer in this workflow, because messing with track levels and EQs on the 2000xl ain't it. But it feels good to try and approach that problem deliberately and not just as some foregone conclusion.
Great perspective. The meditative and exciting process of making music should be our goal, regardless of the tools used. As an amateur, I have the luxury of doing this purely for fun and the joy of creating art. Guess that's the up side of a 9 to 5 😂
You know what this is crazy how you uploaded this video today because I was thinking about the same thing last night.. i was asking a questions to myself - like why am I gonna go buy a brand new $5000 Mac computer when I can just spend that on gear.. I’ve been using the MPC keys for the last little while and I find That the quality of that thing is phenomenal. I’m really contemplating on if it’s even necessary anymore to run a computer unless you’re doing heavy projects like film, scoring or sound effect design for video games.
I hate the whole "hardware vs software war". Reminds me of "Analog synths vs Digital Synths". War lol now we got synths that can do both really well. I like using everything and sometimes at the same time. I'm Ableton to the Bone but I'm also SP-404/MPC/whatever to the Bone. I don't think it matters, I'm getting older. I'ma be 35 next year, I feel like it's always been about keep shit fun for me because I ain't tryna quit anytime soon. I'm 16-17 years in to this music shit lol I really wish people wouldn't always act like shit is always "this vs that" What the beats sound like tho!!!? 😂 Great video, Jon! Thanks for speaking facts g!
Wise words! Worked with multi platinum mix engineer David Kalmusky, watching him mix on a physical desk, dude put his full heart into sliding them faders. Whatever brings out that level of childlike wonder. 🤘a song I wrote on a £2 nylon string charity shop guitar made the cut to an album because the feeling in that take couldn't be replicated with a £1k proper nylon string. To me art is capturing a feeling and whatever is the most fun route is the one you take, also sometimes those limitations become characteristics. Really loving these nuggets of wisdom!
Great take. I've been on both sides of the fence -- hardware in the 80s-90s, totally in the box now... If I still had space for the gear and more time, and more money for more gear I would still use it just for the HANDS ON aspect. There's a humanity to hardware that gets lost in plugins. There's noise and imperfections and limitations that while frustrating at the time -- added up to be interesting. It's possible to add the kind of noise and imperfection that used to happen naturally, in the box, but it takes longer and it doesn't feel as good. It becomes intentional rather than organic as part of the process. If it was reasonable to own a tape reel I would absolutely get some outboard gear and at least mix down to that. And I miss the feel of a hardware mixer. Nostalgia is a real thing, and we don't miss that old stuff because it was bad. We miss it because it was good... Jon is smart to keep his gear and continue working this way. But for those of us who can't for whatever reason, that's OK too. It's all good. But... Hardware is more FUN, just being real. And I say that as a software guy. 🙂
The comparison, I think, is like visual arts. There's plenty of ways to do it, whether oil, acrylic or graphite, but it's really up to the user and their preferences.
I started producing with a MicroKORG, Boss DR5 drum machine, and Pro Tools MBOX when I was 14 years old on a really shitty desktop computer. I've gone through many permutations of gear and DAW since then. I went through the last 2 years being super influenced by youtube and getting trapped in gearmania. I started to lose the ability to tell whether I wanted something because it seemed fun and would work or because the psychological efficacy of the marketing was working. At the end of the day, I had to take a break from it all and just make music and my conclusion has been similar. I had to stop thinking technically and technologically and approach my music MUSICALLY and EXPRESSIVELY and use what I want. Finally settled into the equipment I enjoy and now I'm just enjoying it and forgetting about the irrelevant external nonsense. I've had a similar process with my journey as a writer. Great video and very poignant insights.
I like where we're at with music technology right now because you can work in and out of the box simultaneously with things like Overbridge on the Elektron devices or Ableton Move/Push 3. Using hardware to spark inspiration and finishing the arrangement in a DAW gives you the best of both worlds.
The two keyboards are: fun and results. Having fun brings results. And as artists, we are compelled to produce results. “Finish songs” and move forward. Therefore, we should strive to find tools that make the craft. They’re just toys, and the end of the day.
I thought I needed some physical gear to feel inspired, so I had a few of the popular choices like the mc-101 then a 404 mk2 for sampling then I got the chance to try an Octatrack for a couple of weeks. The issue is where I live any gear costs double the US price and we make like 1/5 of the common US salary so I always felt I paid too much for what those gears do and ended up going back to a cracked version of Live 11 and I got used to it eventually, bought a license and now I can't see myself going back to hardware, I mean, the limitations and the tactile feel are the only things I kinda miss on hardware gear but I learned to limit myself on Live too now I don't even bother to think what should I use or how should I be doing music. I just do it, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't and I have fun either way, which I didn't actually have with hardware for more than a month maybe. Last thing. I'm pretty sure most of my thoughts of "I need hardware to be fun" comes from watching a lot of hardware gear content on youtube so if you feel like that, keep this in mind before buying anything.
I will never be religious. So DAWless is no theme for me. I use 5 samplers....a Maschine Mikro MK3, an MPC Studio (which both use a PC), an MPC 2500, a Polyend Tracker, and last but not least an SP404 mk2. And I use them all. My first baby steps on a computer were set with the first DAW in existence, Best Service's Circle Elements. A fascinating non Windows program that ran on MS DOS mode and had a list of samples to be structured around a loop, it could resample, so its limitations were mitigated. Now, I use an SP404 and use Maschine as a very large synth. Or a Polyend Tracker and an MPC 2500. Or a guitar and the Polyend Tracker. Or Koala and Zenbeats on a tablet. And Koala and the SP404....
Nicely said! Thanks for sharing! I travel a lot so a laptop and an MPK Mini works best for me. Recently added a Seqtrak and it's refreshingly different. Keep up the great work!
My system runs as MPCX as main hub running a Mackie 8 track mixer,korg volca mixer,sample 2,keys and Drum on the other channels have pioneer S9 and PMC1000 turntables,Roland MV8800 berhinger clone 303 and Arturia Key step pro best investment ever from being a Dj to making your own tunes😄❤
and yet you are using little computers to make beats. so.. you DO use computers
He mentioned you in the video lol
@@mikewill5386at the very begining on top of that lol
X)
It has been foretold.
In other words, it's pointless to ask someone why not just use a computer, then, since they're already using one by that definition?
Jon Makes Sense
Indeed
Indeed
"Efficiency doesn't deserve to control your relationship with your own art"
I would say efficiency kill creativity
...and THIS is Why I DON'T Edit These Episodes on a Computer.
thanks for watching everyone!
Gotta love scissors and tape once you can turn on the normal lights. You just feel the love and dedication that goes into the videos. Well done ;-).
Video editing workflow obviously peaked in 1947, thanks for your dedication to the craft ❤
Congrats for being the first to edit RUclips videos on a Steenbeck!
"chasing potential vs. chasing results" - PUT THAT ON A BUMPER STICKER
Thanks for checking in man
Y'all can be in so much of a rush with all the chasing.
Another way to go might be to thoroughly explore possibilities.
Hands-down, this was the best take. I’ve heard so far on “ hardware or software”! Good job Jon!
This video drops moments after Apple drops new M4 Macbooks
timing is everything
@ Tim Apple is cooking up a diss track in Garagband as we speak!
😂
I mean, would love to have one. Would also love an Octatrak and Polybrute 12.
It's like Alec Empire said on the ATR channel: The best music computer has already been made: the Atari ST. Don't spend the money.
For me... it's all about using gear that inspires me to make the music that makes me happy.
yup
I have background in photography and spent years on camera gear forums. There you see many people, with actual portfolios, talking about their gear and workflows, and why they made those choices for themselves. On the other hand you people that vigorously try to convince *others* why they should choose a piece of gear. Those people rarely if ever show their own work. And it made me realize: these people just have different hobbies: some use gear because they love photography, others use gear because they love technology. They love cameras just for the sake they are cameras. And I guess this is true for every hobby/profession that requires technical gear. There is a large percentage of people on synth forums that do not have a real intend to make music, they just like gear. And that is fine. But it is good to recognize it, and realize where someone comes from. I am always interested in choice that people make who actually create things, and it's their opinions that I value. Thanks for your video. I agree 100%!
Loved your take dude! Art comes first, the tools you use are just personal preference 🤘🏻
Hell yeah thanks for stopping by man.
sometimes its too easy to speedrun a beat on a computer. a lot of people like easy breasy video games, many others want fromsoft joints, most want some mix of both.
I'll say that sometimes it's so easy to get something done on software now it moves faster than my critical thinking skills and I'll just do the easiest thing to get to the next step, which can sometimes make worse stuff. But also that's just discipline I lack
I love a good animal crossing sesh but nothing competes with a Dark Souls 3 playthrough yk?
And some want to mod the game, and others are interested in making their own. Lots of room for all approaches.
I'm very new to music production and I very much appreciated this video!
you’re in the right place
This is an amazing philisophical discussion on the nature of music
Great perspective. When anyone asks the hardware vs software question, my answer is always both. Hybrid is the way for me, but I would never judge what others use to create...that's just weird, in my opinion
I spent years just not enjoying trying to use Ableton. Bought a Circuit Tracks and fell in love with physical hardware and the tactile experience. Now I'm almost completely DAW-less with an MPC Live and some synths and it just feels right to me. To each their own, follow what inspires you.
I think for most people a software program is just too big to completely master. And it's intimidating working with things you don't fully know like the back of your hand.
@@jonmakesbeats Even though I use a PC most DAWs have way to much going on now. Everyone is converging on the same feature set with tons of synths, samplers, drum machines, etc. I find myself using my daw to record samples and loops with midi controlling some of the devices. I could probably just use ACID or Cubase from like 2002 - 2005 to do what I do. Something like Bitwig is amazing on paper but is a mess. Most old school hip hop would basically be 8 to 16 audio tracks with almost no eq or effects.
this is such a genius video jon and thanks for putting these thoughts into words for people. i used an mpc 2000xl for yeeeears with just a barebones tape recording setup. i wanted to learn that way. now i have and fully endorse a full hybrid studio with a bunch of gear all synced up to ableton! best of both baybeee
Dude, I have never seen anyone else (other than myself) to write baby like "baybee" dude, are we soulmates?
Both systems have their advantages. I started writing in the 90s and to me.”DAWless” just means.” how everybody did things in 1987.”. I like that writing process. I learned how to write using samplers and sequencers and a tape machine.
But I’ve also finished albums using a DAW. It is an awesome tool! It is a great place to finish a piece. Unfortunately, for me, the spark of inspiration just isn’t there when I’m sitting in front of a computer with a mouse. I like to treat my DAW as a giant tape deck that lets me capture a performance and then edit and tweak that performance until it’s a finished recording.
And I agree, 100%. Unless you’re in a production environment, where you have to be working on a clock to a deadline and be able to recall exact settings from something you worked on three months ago because a client needs a new version of it, then you have the luxury to do whatever makes you happy. Go with the workflow that brings you the most joy. If it’s hardware, use hardware if it’s software, use software. Neither is wrong.
100% Agree. Choose whatever suits to you and have fun✌️
In it for the fun of it, you nailed it.
Excellent insights I never even considered. Especially about potential vs results. Great video!
That was a very thoughtful, professional answer. Thank you for not falling for dismissiveness, even though the question does get tiresome. Hats off, you're a great dude
I learned to commit to sounds and sequences on limited hardware samplers and synths, this makes it easier to work with a computer and not get carried away by all the options it offers. Push was pretty much the reason why i sold a lot of my equipment, i loved the workflow from the first iteration onwards and it gives me the feeling of working with an instrument rather than a DAW plus all the benefits a computer offers when i need them.
My biggest reason is that I spend 9+ hours a day looking at a computer screen for work and have for the last few decades. I relate computers to work and when I want to make music, I don't want to feel like I am at work.
this was such an inspirational video man! thank you for emphasizing the core of making music, having fun, which is something I've been lacking focusing too much on "potential" and feeling overwhelmed.
Glad I stuck around for this one, you are spot on about the art. we are in such a rush to complete things and meet deadlines.. vs chilling and creating..
Thanks so much for this, John! Love the hardware history lesson. Keep up the awesomeness 🌱
Jonwayne! love seeing where you’ve taken your art and how you’ve evolved into such a even more humble and well spoken dude. Jamming with you and Edwin back at his parents crib how ever many years ago is still a core memory.
- Elan
Great take! Enjoyable video as always!
oh man this was awesome. excellent video. thank you!!
I love watching you make music on the octatrack it’s so cool, it makes me want to do it. Realistically though I know deep down I wouldn’t want to put the time in to learn it. FL studio is my most suited way for me, which in a way disappoints me because I get tempted to use standalone. I’ve learned my lesson though, stand-alone isn’t for me. Whenever I try standalone I get frustrated and reminded I can do everything on my computer, for cheaper, without getting into debt. Probably why i like your videos so much, I’m living vicariously through you 😂
Aside from any of this, Jon looks GREAT - you're my hero ever since I heard Bus Stops. Legend.
having fun and being entertained by your own creativity is all that matters. Great video
Holy shit long-time fan of your music just discovering this channel!
After using Reason for a long time, I made the switch to hardware a little over a year ago (MPC One). I'm not going back. I have a lot more fun creating music on my unit. When you said, "...It's a dedicated zone...." that is my sentiment EXACTLY! I found that I was tinkering too much when creating on a computer. I found myself clicking with the mouse on what seemed like a never-ending variety of VSTs, plugins etc., taking time away from actually creating music. I was always searching for a new VST to add to my repertoire, making myself crazy instead of creating. Working in the box is an amazing feeling, I actually enjoy the limitation it presents. And though you could connect a midi controller to the computer (which I did for the 'hardware feel'), it's not the same as a hardware sampler.....the feel is different on my MPC and I have SO MUCH more fun creating beats.
I completely agree. I came from Logic
damn this was so fuckin wonderful dude. the one point. "this is not a conversation about art." done
great video big dawg; we appreciate you.
Great video bubba. Really like how you approached it from both sides and showing that neither argument is rooted in the art.
Very honest and informative, Greatly appreciated! I personally use hardware and a DAW, but I learned a long time ago your workflow is just as much of a Art-form as the music we make. No explanation needed do you!
It's about the journey and the fun for me. Learning and exploring hardware devices this year really bolstered my love of the music creation process
Glad you've been having fun
Thanks for this video and your honest thoughts, really cool to hear
Amen brother! Man coming in with the fire. I salute you sir.
There’s so many aspects to this conversation. I love this part mentioning efficiency. There’s absolutely a part of art at least individual world where efficiency does matter, especially in mediums like printmaking.
Good arguments. I agree - do what feels fun for you.
I've been selling all my gear and I'm getting back to using DAW software and virtual synths. I wasn't having fun with the restrictions and wanted more room to make things easier - and more fun.
Also, I didn't have a dedicated space for all the devices, cables, mixer etc. It felt too much.
If I want restrictions and sometimes I do, I come back to Amiga and make a mod for an Amiga demo.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Appreciated.
The important is to find the tools you feel comfortable with. Personally I use software and hardware, best of both world!
Wow what a great video, it extends to more than just making beats. Really eye-opening, will be thinking on this for some time
To me, I just went from primarily using FL20, moving to a DAWless setup w/ an MPC, a few synths and a couple midi controllers. What I love about DAWless is I feel more connected to the music I create. That’s really it.
Fuggin inspirational. I might have needed to hear this a looooong time ago, it would have saved me so many thousands.... :D Now I now better, but for aspiring artists who are still unsure , this video should be mandatory
Well said. For me, the biggest reason of buying equipment is identity. I’m from the upper class Midwest and there’s nothing around me that makes me feel valid in the music world. I’m not worried about what others think yet because I’m so caught up with how I view myself.
I’ve never even got around to finishing a beat on fl alone because I always quit “knowing” I’m just another kid with a dream too big for himself. But every great musician is a kid just like that that ignored those feelings or was to busy having fun with it they never realized how big the dream was.
Messing around with gearboxes helps me forget about publishing a record or about where I’m going and I just make music. By definition analog controls are better because music is better than no music.
As a person that can't play instruments, making music on a computer has actually driven me to want to buy more gear so that I have more control over my sounds.
that was a really nice explanation of the discussion from your perspective. thanks for sharing! i recently decided to put all of my instruments back in their box and for me it was a fantastic decision. for years i was stuck in the mindset of "a real musician has real instruments" which only lead to me getting more and more instruments which i never used enough to build muscle memory but always feeling like i need to use them because my young self would've killed for my setup. in the end this just meant that i barely turned them on for years and in turn also meant i was just not having fun. when i decided to put them all away i refound much of the magic i felt when starting out but instead of being a broke teenager i now had sick instruments waiting for me to be discovered. my only rule is: i get them out when i want to use them and when i'm done i'll put them back in the box. for everybody in a similar situation, give it chance. i found child like fun in music making again and it's awesome!
"Because it's fun" has become my go-to answer for this as well. I enjoy it more. Everything else is still there to be used when needed
I own an Octatrack, an MPC, and several synthesizers. I've created a lot of music using Reason and Ableton. However, the most fun I've had making beats has been with a $30 microcontroller that runs Dirtywave M8 Headless.
Oh shiii I had no idea you could run it headless like that. That's so damn cool.
I went the opposite way, and switched from hardware to a laptop, and I'm having tons of fun with all the plugins. We are extremely lucky to be able to choose from all these tools to express ourselves musically.
another golden video full of knowledge, just given for free. i love the internet. thanks my dude
I think about this a lot. This is a really eloquent take. Thanks.
I think you should use whatever makes you happy and creative. I have used both, and both have their merits. I like a hybrid setup. When I just want to play some keys, practice, etc, I like to just turn on a hardware keyboard and play. But, anyone who remembers the old days of having to do multiple passes can appreciate modern tracking. At the end of the day, the listener cares about whether they like the song or not, and whether it sounds good. The people that care about the tools are other producers. How often do you go out to eat and care about what brand of pots or knives the chef used? That is how the general listener is to a producer's beat.
Yup
Mad wisdom droppin here. King sht.
Wooooweeee! This was so good
Man. I feel you. I have had to make a sacrifice to do media composition. The complexity of writing for full orchestra and writing to picture it just requires a big rig with a huge pallet of sounds and cubase to manipulate everything in a complex way.
My mpc sits in the corner untouched most of the time.
I tried a project with the mpc running drums but it just slowed everything down too much trying to run a sequence that matched a 15 min film.
I think the new 3.0 software may change some of that since I can build a proper arranger that matches these long ass sessions I have.
Long story short… I miss the simplicity of picking up my bass and just playing.
This is a good video. I struggle with it all the time. I have to decide between using my MpC or FL Studio in my MacBook. In the end, I decided to use whichever I chose that day.
Thanks for this discussion.
Great vid, if you ever feel like it i’d also love to hear you just talk about hardware / production history, it seems super interesting
Thanks Jon
Well said. Definitely prefer hardware for fun/focus aspect.
Thank you, Jon.
Love your ethics, jon
I started doing music in 01’
Boy how the times have changed. The shame that came with saying you use Fruity Loops was real
Simple. Focus and creative flow.
I remember when I made music on Nintendo DS and Korg M01 card with only 12 voices polyphony, but it was fun as hell.
Cheers to that!
Artists can choose a medium. There's truly nothing more correct to use in the world of art if it is what someone can make good stuff on and enjoy. I can love both digital and analog, I can love artists who don't know music theory and musicians who know more than I ever comprehend, and I can love master audio wizards and pure wild expressionists. In fact, I can AND do!
I went to school for game art and had a ton of work with traditional artists and digital artists of all types. In that environment, you don't obsess about pure efficiency; you obsess how to keep your brain loving what you are doing so you can actually finish something! Everyone made cool stuff or had cool ideas, but finishing requires that special sauce of truly loving it
Very well said. Great video!
Preach dude. I've fiddled with stuff since the late 90s. I have the most fun with a mixed setup, but sometimes just setting down with a sampler and a synth gets the job done...
Whenever someone lists popular DAWs and I sit there waiting to hear 'Reason' and it never comes 😭
Great take!!
Luv u. I record everything out of the box. And mix and master of the Mac.
This is absolutely bang on. Yes.
Perfectly put - 100% agree on every single point. I'm reminded of something an old school engineer told me about gear in 1990, that I never forgot: "no one ever remembers a perfectly recorded crappy song. It should always be about the music". Salute!
I recently went back to a 2000xl instead of ableton and a midi controller, and though the learning curve is real, I'm having way more fun, too. I really relate to what you were saying about efficiency. What I find is that the slower workflow of the older MPC makes me pay more attention to every step. I really experience an audio sample differently on an MPC versus just looking at the waveform and popping slices into it. The way I see it, actually understanding a limited amount of choices is way better than having a bazillion choices and just kind of going with the easiest one. Honestly, I'm still trying to find the best way to use my computer in this workflow, because messing with track levels and EQs on the 2000xl ain't it. But it feels good to try and approach that problem deliberately and not just as some foregone conclusion.
Great perspective. The meditative and exciting process of making music should be our goal, regardless of the tools used. As an amateur, I have the luxury of doing this purely for fun and the joy of creating art. Guess that's the up side of a 9 to 5 😂
You know what this is crazy how you uploaded this video today because I was thinking about the same thing last night.. i was asking a questions to myself - like why am I gonna go buy a brand new $5000 Mac computer when I can just spend that on gear.. I’ve been using the MPC keys for the last little while and I find That the quality of that thing is phenomenal. I’m really contemplating on if it’s even necessary anymore to run a computer unless you’re doing heavy projects like film, scoring or sound effect design for video games.
I hate the whole "hardware vs software war". Reminds me of "Analog synths vs Digital Synths". War lol now we got synths that can do both really well.
I like using everything and sometimes at the same time. I'm Ableton to the Bone but I'm also SP-404/MPC/whatever to the Bone.
I don't think it matters, I'm getting older. I'ma be 35 next year, I feel like it's always been about keep shit fun for me because I ain't tryna quit anytime soon. I'm 16-17 years in to this music shit lol
I really wish people wouldn't always act like shit is always "this vs that"
What the beats sound like tho!!!? 😂
Great video, Jon! Thanks for speaking facts g!
Right on fella! I'm having fun with some hardware, some vcv rack on pc, some apps on android, just playing for enjoyment and learning g
Limitation inspires creativity, thanks Jon
Limitations can also kill creativity. It depends on the person
Wise words! Worked with multi platinum mix engineer David Kalmusky, watching him mix on a physical desk, dude put his full heart into sliding them faders. Whatever brings out that level of childlike wonder. 🤘a song I wrote on a £2 nylon string charity shop guitar made the cut to an album because the feeling in that take couldn't be replicated with a £1k proper nylon string. To me art is capturing a feeling and whatever is the most fun route is the one you take, also sometimes those limitations become characteristics.
Really loving these nuggets of wisdom!
Great take. I've been on both sides of the fence -- hardware in the 80s-90s, totally in the box now... If I still had space for the gear and more time, and more money for more gear I would still use it just for the HANDS ON aspect. There's a humanity to hardware that gets lost in plugins. There's noise and imperfections and limitations that while frustrating at the time -- added up to be interesting. It's possible to add the kind of noise and imperfection that used to happen naturally, in the box, but it takes longer and it doesn't feel as good. It becomes intentional rather than organic as part of the process.
If it was reasonable to own a tape reel I would absolutely get some outboard gear and at least mix down to that. And I miss the feel of a hardware mixer. Nostalgia is a real thing, and we don't miss that old stuff because it was bad. We miss it because it was good... Jon is smart to keep his gear and continue working this way. But for those of us who can't for whatever reason, that's OK too. It's all good. But... Hardware is more FUN, just being real. And I say that as a software guy. 🙂
The comparison, I think, is like visual arts. There's plenty of ways to do it, whether oil, acrylic or graphite, but it's really up to the user and their preferences.
I must agree, all the hardware is so much fun!
I started producing with a MicroKORG, Boss DR5 drum machine, and Pro Tools MBOX when I was 14 years old on a really shitty desktop computer. I've gone through many permutations of gear and DAW since then. I went through the last 2 years being super influenced by youtube and getting trapped in gearmania. I started to lose the ability to tell whether I wanted something because it seemed fun and would work or because the psychological efficacy of the marketing was working.
At the end of the day, I had to take a break from it all and just make music and my conclusion has been similar. I had to stop thinking technically and technologically and approach my music MUSICALLY and EXPRESSIVELY and use what I want. Finally settled into the equipment I enjoy and now I'm just enjoying it and forgetting about the irrelevant external nonsense. I've had a similar process with my journey as a writer.
Great video and very poignant insights.
GAS is a thing
Gear acquisition syndrome is real
@ Without a doubt. I was afflicted for a good two years haha. Buy, sell, buy, the new version drops, sell, buy... endless haha.
I like where we're at with music technology right now because you can work in and out of the box simultaneously with things like Overbridge on the Elektron devices or Ableton Move/Push 3. Using hardware to spark inspiration and finishing the arrangement in a DAW gives you the best of both worlds.
Well said, brother!
The two keyboards are: fun and results. Having fun brings results. And as artists, we are compelled to produce results. “Finish songs” and move forward. Therefore, we should strive to find tools that make the craft. They’re just toys, and the end of the day.
Great vid!
I thought I needed some physical gear to feel inspired, so I had a few of the popular choices like the mc-101 then a 404 mk2 for sampling then I got the chance to try an Octatrack for a couple of weeks. The issue is where I live any gear costs double the US price and we make like 1/5 of the common US salary so I always felt I paid too much for what those gears do and ended up going back to a cracked version of Live 11 and I got used to it eventually, bought a license and now I can't see myself going back to hardware, I mean, the limitations and the tactile feel are the only things I kinda miss on hardware gear but I learned to limit myself on Live too now I don't even bother to think what should I use or how should I be doing music. I just do it, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't and I have fun either way, which I didn't actually have with hardware for more than a month maybe.
Last thing. I'm pretty sure most of my thoughts of "I need hardware to be fun" comes from watching a lot of hardware gear content on youtube so if you feel like that, keep this in mind before buying anything.
best video on this topic ive ever seen
I will never be religious. So DAWless is no theme for me. I use 5 samplers....a Maschine Mikro MK3, an MPC Studio (which both use a PC), an MPC 2500, a Polyend Tracker, and last but not least an SP404 mk2. And I use them all. My first baby steps on a computer were set with the first DAW in existence, Best Service's Circle Elements. A fascinating non Windows program that ran on MS DOS mode and had a list of samples to be structured around a loop, it could resample, so its limitations were mitigated. Now, I use an SP404 and use Maschine as a very large synth. Or a Polyend Tracker and an MPC 2500. Or a guitar and the Polyend Tracker. Or Koala and Zenbeats on a tablet. And Koala and the SP404....
i wish this video was around years ago, i came to this revelation but not without some $$$ and false starts, great video
you and me both
Nicely said! Thanks for sharing! I travel a lot so a laptop and an MPK Mini works best for me. Recently added a Seqtrak and it's refreshingly different. Keep up the great work!
Just use what inspires you to make music, have fun, and finish music.
Real talk full of wise words! I use both to produce however find my hard ware more enjoyable to play around on.
My system runs as MPCX as main hub running a Mackie 8 track mixer,korg volca mixer,sample 2,keys and Drum on the other channels have pioneer S9 and PMC1000 turntables,Roland MV8800 berhinger clone 303 and Arturia Key step pro best investment ever from being a Dj to making your own tunes😄❤