540 BBC STROKER BUILDS-DO YOU NEED MILD or WILD?
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2020
- FULL DYNO RESULTS-2 POWER PACKAGES ON A DART 540 SHP BBC. DOES YOUR PROJECT NEED A MILD, STREETABLE, PUMP-GAS, 600+HP BBC WITH PLENTY OF TIRE-TURNING TORQUE? HOW ABOUT SOMETHING A LITTLE WILDER-LIKE A 750+ HP, SOLID-ROLLER CAMMED (STILL PUMP GAS) BBC WITH A TASTY DOMINATOR! WHATEVER YOURBBC NEEDS, MILD OR WILD, THIS VIDEO HAS BOTH!
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540 is so cool. SHP Dart blocks are Awesome ! Great data from the tests !! Thanks for all that you do !
I'd love to see some content on a Buick 350 vs Chevy 350 in stock and somewhat modified form!
Most exciting place on RUclips no doubt about it. Please know that we all enjoy all these great videos.
Mild 540 with a 871 would be epic in my opinion.
Twin Turbos!
@@firebry23 twin the twins and let her eat . compound turbler stuff can be fun .
The torque from a mild-mid range 540 build with an 871 would likely slow the rotation of the earth. You'd end up with more torque than any God.
@@firebry23 no interest. 🤷♂️
@@christianmeeks4430 gotta love the ruthless grunt.
Great content every day. I love this channel.
Great test! Now do the N/A tests at 14:1 compression!
Love the Dart block and heads. Everything works better with boost though.
Yeee. I like that he’s hitting these numbers on pump and the compression ratio is still low. Perfect build for boost.
The mild combo would get my junk into low 10s high 9s, and still drive to church on sunday. Fast enough for me.
My car is 2270 with driver and runs 567 @ 6600 rpms 123 mph with 496 ci of course that's 1/8 mile track one of Richard's motors would scare me in my Vega Wagon!! Lol just a ole Motorhead!
@@ronaldlewis4032 What car do you have that weighs 2270 with driver and a big block?
@@AB-80X HI, it's a round tube chassis with strut front end in a Vega Wagon fiberglass doors and trunk lid 4 wheel disc brakes, power guide and 9" Ford aluminum center section . I have a 509 ci went 551 in the 1/8 .I had the car scaled with me in it so that's pretty much it!! That's no trans brake just little above an idle and leave! I'm sure with a little different tune and a few more rpms in will run a little quicker!!
@@AB-80X He said Vega Wagon Cuz. I had a 73 Vega weighed 2680 w/o driver and a SBC back in the day.
@@fuckucatchme1000rr
I asked because no ordinary car, no matter how stripped, is that low. A fiberglass race car on a tube chassis is a different matter.
Comparing a "real" 2600+ Vega to a race car, is apples and oranges. 2600 is pretty much the limit for a car with a 10 point cage. After that, you are looking at serious mods, CF and so on.
Great test Richard. I’m confident with 11.1 CR the wild combo would’ve made over 800
Comfortably.
Love my 540 on just 12lbs of boost makes 1800 hp at 48% duty cycle on the first set of 8 injectors on c16
Personally, for ordinary street use I'd want to be somewhere in the middle...
Years ago, I built a 6.6 Liter T/A engine (403 Olds). Bored it 0.60, raised the compression some, Installed a Crane cam kit of around 280* duration, used a performer dual plane intake, and an ordinary set of Hedman headers.
The engine was very impressive up to around 5,500 RPMs, then it always just acted like it ran out of breath, and the power would flatten out very noticeably. I never did fix the issue, and always blamed it on the stock heads. But over the years, I've begun to wonder if I didn't just get the wrong valve springs with my cam kit...
Nice job! Each one of these videos contains several good lessons!
I like berts idea about blow through carbs on a tunnel ram
13 to 1. methanol and 106 lsa... Lmao... As always good content sir....
Right
Excellent as always. Can't wait for you to test one of those Mercury QC4V V8s.
Torque monster 540 is cool Wild one is N/A horsepower awesomeness!!! Imagine the numbers under boost, laughing gas, Roots blower, centrifugal, a pair of twin turbos.😲
Can't wait to see the next video!! I have a 540 with 10.8:1 compression with smaller heads and smaller solid roller cam that made very similar power with a tunnel ram and QFT 750's. I then ran the same combo with a pair of e85 950's on e85 and picked the power up to 814hp but even better yet, it has over 700ft/lbs from (if I remember correctly) 3,500-6,500.
I have a blower shop 8-71 that I may bolt to it with e85 for my 19ft Daytona jet boat
Great Information Richard.... Even something's I didn't know💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
Looking forward for part 2 & 3
Congrats on so close to 100K subscribers! We love big blocks and this 540 is no exception. And it’s likely an 87 octane street combo! I’d still like to see you run this shortblock with CID JK-series heads-88 cc combustion chambers! They have a nice tall single-plane that should work well, too.
The first combination is pretty sweet. Making more compression would be sweet. Hand the pro 1 heads to JE and have them tailor pistons at .040" clearance to the chambers, so they can be like current LT1 heads. The dome wouldn't be tall and blocky. It could just slope away from the quench pads. Of course, at 8.8:1 compression, it's perfect for a V-30 Vortech.
Great video
I like the mild. Put a close-ratio Tremec behind it and a 3.55 rear gear. Nice torque curve there.
Maybe for a truck engine. But considering the size of the beast, it seemed a little too tame for my taste...
I’d want a 3.73 limited slip bc 3.73 is a great balance between drivability and grunt
That “mild” build is the ideal street rod. Loads of torque, good power, same weight as an iron small block, pump gas, ezpz.
Since I'm a major fan of Huge Torque, I like the first one the most.
I'm just wondering how well it would do with a better torque intake like the old Street Tunnel Rams or the Cross Ram intakes of old.
Me too! I love torque monsters!💯
??? the second combo made more torque
@@fredguarino5931 Ya but your going to have to buy a very street unfriendly torque converter to use it.
Now put a nice big blower on the second engine and stand by for low flying driveline parts, mainly because I was to cheap to buy them..........there's a lot of truth in that.
John Parrish got a 2013 duramax. 375 hp and 750 torque. It may not win a top speed race, but pulling an 8000 lb trailer at 8000 ft elevation is pretty impressive.
@@mikealexander4166 Look up the Bentley 6.75 liter twin turbo V8 and prepare to be disappointed in American truck engines.
The Bentley design is about 30 years old, so it's nothing that we couldn't have built. It produces 540 horses at 5000 rpm and 800 foot pounds of torque at 1800 rpm.
I've always wanted to get my hands on one of these engines to find out its secrets but the only thing I know that helps is that it has 20 head bolts per head.
Each engine is run at max power for 100 hours. Each engine goes through a Thermal Shock test, running engine at 220 degrees, engine shut off and coolant dumped, replaced by minus 30 degree coolant and run up to 220 degrees again. This test is done 400 times on each engine.
It takes 12 hours to build the engine. It takes 3 weeks to certify it as good enough for Bentley.
Friggen magnificent engine.
that first step with a tunnel ram and some velocity stacks would be supper cool sticking threw the hood of a second gen Camaro. setting my way back machine for the 1970s....
How about a twin centrifigal with a tunnel ram and 2 blowthru carbs and the "mild" cam
pump gas motors making 600-750 + hp is great .the Dart short blocks are a good deal ,shop around to find a good price on them .
Id like to see a 340 413 small block Mopar with a set of indy heads on alcohol run
Good test
Power falls off dramatically because not enough spring. Learned that from you, Richard.
My vote would be something in between. I don't like solid roller cams on the street as they seem to eat rollers after a while, and the hydraulic roller was too small for my taste.
Like the dyno videos, excellent work!!
Cam/spring/comp combo probably caused the layover. Needs more of everything for those cubes.
I want to see you ripping a GM 8.1L PLEASE!!!
Seconded.
Very interested in seeing the 8100.
Question, with your wild combo spinning to 7K rpm, have you ever done a harmonic dampener/balancer shoot out. Some say at higher rpm a quality after market vs stock dampener will make for a power gain at the top end. Any thought or experience with this?
I been looking for a 318 video lol hope to see one soon!
Just follow Steve dulcich & engine masters. They’ve toyed with them a fair amount. But I’d love Rich’s opinion, too, though!
I just want to say I love the channel..I'm here to find the best combo for my fox ...street car but would love to get something built old school . I'm looking for that motor that's going to chop as loud as It can but still be a daily street car . So I'm looking for around 800 to the wheels . I just sold my 15 mustang stock bottom end making 1k to the wheels . I ran a 8.94 in the quarter . But what I really want is a street car with that old school look and sound plus having enough hp to walk the walk ..can you recommend a motor ford or chevy ...best bang for my buck ?
I always wanted to know if the eagle mirror finished crank does make a difference in power? Not a micro polish on the journals but the counter weights and the rest of the crank.
Right on
I am wondering how much vacuum this thing had at idle. Even with the mild hydraulic roller I have my doubts about it pulling enough for brakes. 230 cam and less than nine to one, I would guess it would only have about 11-14" at idle. For street driving, it's still huge and makes torque everywhere but might be a bit sketchy.
I see very little content on BBC engines set up for torque instead of horsepower.
Some of us are more interested in torque as we are putting together engines for pulling trailers and larger vehicles.
Could you work with comp and have a lm7 cam ground to factory duration and lsa, but with like .625 lift instead of the .400 or whatever it is?
18👍's up guys thanks again for taking us all along with you for the great stuff
Please for now on show the dyno pulls
THESE ARE OLD-BUT THE UPCOMING CADDY DYNO SESSION WILL HAVE VIDEO OF PULLS
valve control issues, bbc valves are very heavy and it really becomes a problem on big hydraulic higher rpm setups, hence why solid roller is a good way to go if you want to spin a bbc hard
I have a 555 that sees twenty pounds boost with a .650 lift hydraulic roller that has not levelled out in hp at the 6600 rpm rev limiter with 180 lb seat pressure on a 2.30 Manley extreme duty valve and no valve float . With careful setup up a hydraulic bbc does not float at lower revs , Richard told me when I asked about this that he’s seen 74 or 76 hundred without issues, I know that sounds nuts but he’s the man .
For a "the other guys" segment, I'd like to see a 3.4L DOHC engine from the mid 90's with boost. I love these engines, and I have a goal of trying to put one in an early Monza with a 6 speed for a road racing setup.Trying to have a screaming motor that would eat up a curvy road, or maybe set uo for a mile speed run. What do you think sir?
I'VE DONE SOME MODS TO THE TWIN-DUAL CAM MOTORS IN THE PAST
600 hp on 89 octane? I'll take it as is.
Cool name lol👍
No kidding. That'll wake up the old '68 C-10! A 4.11 posi and a 4L80 would make a great pickup truck.
Meryl Pelosi 4.11 means it’ll suck on the highway. My car cams stock with 4.30 gears in the back and I’m at like 4k rpm around 70mph. It’s annoying
@@calebnation7797 31 inch rear tire and the OD in the 4L80 will take care of it.
@@calebnation7797 do you have an Overdrive? A 4L80 should lower the RPM
Great video Richard. Would a higher CR, in the range of 11-12:1, bump the wild combo's low rpm torque to match the mild combo's numbers? Thank you.
12:1 would be 10-12% increase or so
What was the spring pressure in the first heads and what do you think would have been the right spring
I wonder what the mild build would make at 10 to 1.
Power fall off mild i'll say is two problems first low compression overall power loss second not enough cam to allow more air flow ... i'm running a Gen6 454 forged assy stroked to 496 GM oval Alum 3390 heads tunnel ram twin side saddle Demon 750's out of the box 10.7:1 hr294 2600 stall in a 3600 lb 78 firebird 32x18.50 MT et Street ...and could not be happier ... not dyno'ed not tweaked light puff of grey when i blip the throttle...... power EVERYWHERE !!! great combo's Richard !!! i'm enjoying every episode !!! not really a fan of powermaster episodes ... too goofy
Thanks Richard for these great video's. I'm suprised it made the power it did considering the low CR. Good work !! I run a 555 BBC in drag car myself. The question i have on my mind is about cylinder head size. Whats to big ???? and what happens when the head is to big ??? There are so many options for BBC heads out there. My 555 is using the AFR 335 CNC which works awesome, but say if i stepped up the giant 385 CC AFR. Would my car go faster ? Or maybe slower ? sorry for the rambling.
we ran the ProMax 340s on a 496 and 555 or 565 or 572 (it all runs together), worked fine-ran 225 Dart on the 306 Ford-didn't seem to hurt it much
Holy s*** dude your wife must be lonely lol. you pump out a lot of videos! Believe me I'm not complaining I love every one of them man you must have a bedroom at West Tech. Anyways keep up the good work would like to see some Dyno stuff on the old Grand Nationals 3.8 turbo Motors and how about a new Camaro V6 Big Bang are those things strong?
So when one of these blocks don’t have a home, my 79 day cruiser is taking donations!!
A 632c.i. Blueprint Shortblock is $5600 at summit. 😁
THOSE ARE NICE-WESTECH RAN ONE OF THEM
Richard Holdener : Did you join two dynos together to do a 632? For your 540 BBC, I predict 1036 hp gross at 8000 rpm with the right tunnel ram. But youd need the biggest Dominators to get that.
Maybe a few LS peeps don’t respect old school carb Rat motors , I’m sure a few Mopar and Blue Oval guys are thumbs downing out of sour grapes , I am prejudiced myself being a BBC guy . Can’t wait for the power adder edition .
Part 2 oh boy. I wonder if you had closed the LSA of the big cam to 108 if the low end gain would have helped more than the top it would have lost. I know it's always what if isn't it. Nobody would comment if it wasn't good stuff.
Mr Holdener, will you please build a ls6 454, then try all the GM cams? It would be great for the ls guys to see the potential of a basic rectangle port 454
An 11.25 CR rectangle port 454 with GM's solid flat tappet production cams and GM's over-the-counter hot rod cams from way back when would be great!
Do you think that knife edging the crank would help with cutting through the oil on those stroker motors?🤷♂️
Get those Trick Flow heads bare, blueprint them with the proper valvetrain package, and run a .650 lift solid roller. You should be close to 700hp.
Would you be willing to share the part number on that oil pan? Thanks
Build a Gen VI BBC, 4.25" crank, .060" over bore.
High lift short duration cam,
NOT necessarily an off the shelf camshaft,
I figure that a custom cam would be required.
Maybe a blow through carb, turbo with A2A charge cooler.
5,000 MAX rpm torque tow engine, Vortec Gen Vi heads,
Try-Y torque headers for a GM Crew Cab Dually or 3/4 ton 2WD Suburban...
A PURE torque monster.
These builds ALWAYS have really big horsepower numbers,
BUT most driving on the street is BELOW 4,000rpm
BTW, E85 is available at every gas station here in the Midwest,
so pooch the compression up, ND/OR add water injection on demand!
IMPRESS ME WITH TORQUE!!!!
Richard, I know you are filling the time with these old dyno projects that you did back in the day - great, but when are we going to see the "other guy" engines?
leaving for the Caddy dyno sessions soon
@@richardholdener1727 That is good news!
@@richardholdener1727 "That Cadillac's not leaking oil, that's oil trying to get in."
Valve float? Not enough spring pressure for the rpm? Valve train related.
That's what I was thinking too.
Big Block Chevy's are notorious for valve float. it is the giant valves and the canted angles that cause a lot of it. also I am not a huge fan of Comp Cams "Extreme" cams. they have fairly radical opening an closing ramps on the cam and it can make valve control an issue. they make great power, but they need heavier springs to run them. whenever I build an engine with a Comp Extreme series cam, i always change the springs to what Comp recommended for spring for that cam and some times go one step higher in spring pressure depending on the cam. a lot of aftermarket BBC heads just don't have enough spring pressure to to deal with the heavy valves, canted valve angles and the fast opening and closing ramps on the extreme series cams. also 3/8 pushrods, rocker arms with a ratio higher than stock 1.7, even the type of roller lifter can make valve float worse on a BBC.
@@shadvan9494 Could you help me understand how canted valve angles cause valve float? I just don't get it.
nice hp and tourqe for the street
👐
Go with afr 300 oval ports with the 112cc chambers and a cam with .650 lift and pick your duration
A little more cam on the street version with boost would be ideal for a parking lot hero.
The wild 540 with twin 76mm turbos or a single 118mm turbo👍
I'd use a pair of 88's with 106 turbines on methanol, I like the idea of 1900+ ftlbs twisting to 8000.
4.625 bore 4.750 stroke dart 360 heads aluminum rods stuffed in a bowtie tall deck block. Oooops
1st combo, valve float @5800?
Runs out of airflow up top from the small cam ?
With more spring pressure, won't the power curve die off really fast anyway, but at a different RPM?
it would roll over after the power peak smoothly
Hey I’ve asked on several of your videos now about the video You made of the Edelbock top end kit for the ford Windsor junkyard motor I can’t find it anywhere
ruclips.net/video/U8SsieMdmYk/видео.html
Richard Holdener hey this is ya updated one but u done one a while back and actually had footage of it on the dyno that’s the only thing ya missing now is the footage of motors on dyno mate
6:35 I think the power curve flattened because of the smaller 950 on the 540 inch motor? Maybe the 950 would work better on a smaller motor? I'm probably wrong seeing as how my answer is based off my street race background😅 just participating no hate love ALL the big block vids
In your opinion, if you had that same "wild" setup but with 12-12.5 compression and running on e85. What do you think the hp/tq gains would've been? Thanks!
3-4% per 1 full point (maybe more on e85)
been doing some thinking, if you run a blowthrough application you get evaporative cooling from the fuel which is good, but if you did a blowthrough setup on a tunnel ram would it get better?
THE TUNEL RAM IS ALREADY BETTER-PARTLY BECAUSE OF THAT
@@richardholdener1727 i remembered you saying that in a prior video somewhere
I've been considering a 540 with 114 lsa, around 230/236, 9.5 cr for a marine application. Would never see over 5400 rpm.
Your question at 6:15 is 1 of 2 things, bbc's are notorious for heavy lifters and valve float, so I'm guessing you had some sorta valve train control issue. Or your dyno fuel system went tu. That's my guess.
Even the mild is a bit wild for my liking. I use my stuff for everything. so people may laugh at me that even with a big block I'd want to choose a cam that delivers good low RPM grunt and by low RPM I mean sub 2000 RPM. Best fuel efficiency. and improved power over stock configurations. pretty sure its possible over smog type cams. I would think a cam that answers to that wouldn't be in the 230 degrees range. perhaps between 210 and 225 degree range.
How less responsive does this 540 mild build feel next to the identical build with higher compression or would that not make a difference?
power and torque would be up 3-4% per 1 point of compression
Thats awesome Richard, have you ever put cheap oval port heads on a 540?
I don't think so
They would help with the wide combustion chamber on mine they require a 4.540 head gasket, just wondering thanks
it would interesting to see the Trick flow heads with more camshaft.
they work well-not as good as the Pro 1s, but good
What’s a good company to go through for the 540 dart shp short block?
westech
BBC like to breathe. A little more air, lift and fuel is a good starting point. I have had really good luck with the algorithms in "Performance Automotive Engine Math" by John Baechtel. That's an idea for you... test out the calculations in his book to old school tuners and see what surprises come about.
What do you think the wild combo would do just adding compression to that combo. Maybe 12:1?
3-4% increase per 1 full point of compression
97.9 k awesome
Was it 8.8-1 compression ratio on both mild and wild combos?
same
With boost obviously
Ever tried cutting pistons for valve clearance by hand? The valve notches in oem cast pistons I have in my collection look pretty crude (Mazda, Honda, Nissan, Mercedes, Hyundai, and GM.)
I don't know if I need to do it yet but I'm looking for reaons why I couldn't use something like a carbide bit to cut more valve clearance if the need arises. Shop vac to capture the metal filings?
I have used a valve cutting tool and a simple carbide cutter
Richard Holdener : see
www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/1407-how-to-push-a-junkyard-351-windsor-past-1000-hp/
And the Richard "Hold On a Minute" Holdener Dremel for the Big Bang 351 Windsor 1054 hp engine. Lol lita Valve Clearance Defeater. The AFR aluminum heads had intake valves that didn't have enough piston to Valve "Clearance, Clarence". So "What's your Vector Victor" did some Trebble and Base with der Dremel, Mein Herr. CFYi.... It wasnt the Dremel that put the reciprocating parts in the sump. It was Boost control...To Major Tom..The write up on it was truley epic. No full dyno run video...but plenty of pictures! Now I have 8 x 5s of Richard Holdener suggesting some better con-rods might have been one of Fords Betta EyeDears... i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc501/xecute6/xecute6099/1000hp_windsor_351_efi.jpg
@ 1.06 and @ 3.10 in the following video, pistond Dremel-D. ruclips.net/video/1CIaPJ8hQ1k/видео.html
My mazda pistons (admittedly not factory) have beautiful valve reliefs.
@@calebnation7797 The aftermarket pistons I got for my Miata were nice but the OEM pistons were only machined on top with the valve reliefs cast into them. The reliefs on the pistons are still rough like the underside of the skirt.
As usual very good information, BUT as usual, nothing about timing curves? Especially on nitrous, turbos, and blowers! Timing is SO important, but never a word (graphs) about it? Anybody else with me on this?
timing was locked at 30 degrees on the blower stuff-locked at 39 on the na stuff
Richard Holdener id like to see the difference in timing curves between nitrous, turbos, and superchargers. I’ll bet the fans would appreciate and be surprised by the big differences in curves of power adders
Thanks Richard! Hopefully going forward with new tests you could mention the timing? Keep up the great work!
I think the 5700 dip is spring control. I think your springs cant keep up
What sort of oil pressure are you seeing at 6000+ rpm. We have always had low pressure like 20-30 lbs on our 496 stroker even if it's only a 5 sec. 1/8 mile pass.
we like to see 65
Wow ...what is your "go to" setup for a bbc as far as a wet sump. And also how much power loss is expected with bad windage issues. We just made 945hp to the wheels with 25lbs of oil pressure and then jetted up the nitrous and ruined the hard drive in the dyno laptop... guess we should have moved it outside the shop haha
First combo valve float imo
Super Charge 540 BBC what should the compression be at to make 1000 hp?
WITH WHAT BLOWER AND FUEL?
Steve Morris hits 950 hp na with a 540 cu .. crank it up Richard ..
Why not the AFR335 CNC they work great on my pump gas 11:1 540.
they work well
i got a 496 stroker short block i am building my 496 can handle 1500hp reliably i got 7k just in the short block i am looking at 385 AFR ti-2020 heads but im looking for a cam and i dont want to rev it past 6k but i want to supercharge it i want a good power band from 2k to 6k it gonna get a 6-71 super charger my transmission can handle 1200hp and so can my driveshaft idk about my rear end it a custom ford 9 inch 35 spline custom on 4.56 gears idk how much power i can handle someone told me 600 and others tell me 2000 hp but that is a big difference so im looking for a good cam
Boost!
I was no chit looking at Ohio Crankshaft catalog this morning
I live 20 minutes from a track that runs big block modifiers
They have swap meet
All aluminum big blocks
Cheap
A nice stroker rotating assy
Weighs bout the same or less than an iron small block
Hmmmm
Need 'tips and tricks' book series on the merchandise page