540 BBC STROKER-THREE TUNNEL RAMS TESTED
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2020
- FULL DYNO RESULTS-WEIAND vs DART vs WILSON-PORTED DART! TUNNEL RAM TRIPLE TEST! ALL TUNNEL RAMS ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL. CHECK OUT HOW A WEIAND TUNNEL RAM COMPARES TO A SINGLE-PLANE DOMINATOR, THEN HOW A DART TUNNEL RAM COMPARES TO THE WEIAND, THEN HOW A PORTED DART TUNNEL RAM COMPARES TO THE AS-CAST VERSION. IT'S ALL HERE!
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Richard on tunnel rams: "Yeah, it does stick out of the hood. That's what make it so awesome" lol, right on!
Love the comparison of the three tunnel ram manifolds... would love to see a test of sheer plates verse phenolic carb spacers (are the sheer plates worth the money?) on a bbc tunnelram...keep up the good work
I know that you're under a lot of pressure to please the masses by doing a variety of engines/combos within limited time frames and I appreciate what you do. Keep up the great work! (Talk Brule into starting a BBC specific channel)
W
I'm a simple man. I see tunnel ram. I click. 🙂
Standing at the entrance to a scrapyard. Watching some guy kicking my future tunnel ram down the sidewalk like a tin can.
I saved him the trouble of kicking it all the way to me, and walked to him. Right time, right place, right price....
Always been a fan of the low comp motors for the street. With good heads mild hydraulic cam (less than 0.550 lift) and intake they always performed well, we’re ultra reliable and ran on no more than mid grade fuel. They all but one got reasonable fuel mileage. My friends were always dealing with poor fuel, detonation, blown head gaskets, burned pistons, burned valves and got rotten fuel mileage. But they did develop more hp. It all boils down to how much maintenance do you wish to tolerate for the maximum performance you can get from any combination. Different strokes for different folks. What ever works best for you is the way to go. Thank you for your video. I really enjoyed it.
Gen 3 coyote ships with 12:1, gen 2 11.2:1, many European cars a little over 11:1. Just run 93 octane.
2👍's up guys thanks again for taking us all along with you for the great show 😊
This guy should be RUclipsR of the year. I LOVE this channel
sharpshooter jojo : a-ha. A-HA!
712 foot pounds, 540 cubic inches, 1.31 foot pounds per cubic inch. That's impressive for 8.8:1 compression. I'd throw in the towel and call it a win.
Not yet.....8.8:1 is perfect for what? Boost my friend and double that power I mean start with twin chinese fans and some lite tuning for squat ($) less than an extra grand
@@kdsboosted4954 Boost is always an option. But those are good numbers for an NA low compression setup.
@@bigboreracing356 AMEN BROTHA! This is why some race classes forbid supercharging. At the end of the day, if everybody uses the same heads, then it all boils down to the cam, chassis, and driver, which is what racing is all about.
Getting Closer to that 100 K Subscribers Richard. 👍👍👍
That thing is screaming for 13:1 CR.
15:1
No, its screaming for a big supercharger.
Yessir Richard.... I always wondered about big Cams and low compression and then you answered it..... That's why your the best thang going when it comes to real world engine information Buddy🙌🏻🙌🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
That was cool. Now I want a 540 thanks Richard lol
NOW THIS is up my alley !
This article before it became a video actually convinced me to get a ported dart tunnel ram with 950 XP dominators for my 13.2:1 solid roller AFR headed 305c BBC 439. Very curious to see how it performs once its together, and of course its paired with Velocity stacks 🤟
i like the tunnel ram intakes they look awesome sticking out of the hood.....make good hp tq too..great video
You, sir, are not wrong. A tunnel ram on a big block Chevrolet is how they all should’ve been equipped from the factory. If one dominator is great, two dominators are fantastic. So much right in this upload. Thank you.
Tunnel Rams rule!
ADD 2 s480 turbos to that setup and use them heads to the MAX.
I was running big cams with low compression 35 years ago, it worked then and it works now.
Thanks again for another great vid. Only thing I would like to have seen would be a dual quad setup included somewhere in between the single carb test video and this one. TYVM for all you do Richard.
Another great video
Great help. Appreciate it
It would have been cool to put a 4150 top on one or both of the Dart manifolds with the same 750's that were on the Weiand.
Very helpful information. I see a tunnel ram in my future.
The big block Chevy, needs more than 8.5:1, N/A!😁 Although, the numbers, were impressive!
I would love to see a Buick 350 vs Chevy 350 vs olds 350 vs Pontiac 350(which of course is Kiiiinda a big block). So basically I guess I'm thinking a GM 350 comparison across the board would be amazing and fun! I was always told that Buick 350s were very capable with a lot of potential but the aftermarket support of the Chevy 350 overshadowed all the other manufacturer offerings. It would be interesting to find out!
Would like to see that test as well because I believe the other GM 350's used different bore/stroke combos than Chevy did to achieve 350 ci and yes the aftermarket support is way in the favor of the Chevy.
NICE TEST!!!
Tunnel rams are one of those rare instances where the cooler looking part is the better part. And you almost never see them!
Excellent video - thank you! It would be awesome if you could do similar tests on ~400+ SBC. A lot of misinformation out here regarding tunnel rams on small block Chevys.
Those dart short blocks and heads are reliable and make good power. I built a 565 bbc with 12.5 comp. 750 lift roller it makes 850 at the wheel with 150 shot & runs 5.30s in 3500lb car for 6 years no problems with motor
Very close to home. Have a street 555 - Pro1 345 as cast, .728 SR that makes about the same power. Watching closely.
thumbed
I agree with everything u said. I have done this on a few big blocks in my car and 2 1050s was always worth 40 plus hp
Awesome 👏
every BBC needs a tunnel ram. I would love to put tunnel ram on an early second gen Camaro, with some velocity stacks. it would be awesome.
Great Video love the info!! Now I want to throw a tunnel Ram on my 6.0 Ls
I have a tunnel rammed big block that runs very well. Has awesome street manors.
Good video.
We ran 600 off the motor, 600 nos on racing gas. Big chief heads on aftermarket block.
Bloodviking
Would love to see a comparison of a E 85 specific 540 engine running pump e 85. Like to see how much the extra three points of compression adds horsepower compared to pump gas
Once again a fantastic demonstration of the potential between various intakes and heads. What would happen if you actually had more compression? Regardless looking forward to seeing what nitrous and a hair dryer does to the HP/Torque chart.....1200 to 1500 hp? Wilson intakes are outstanding! Thanks again for your effort and knowledge Richard.
Nothing better than carbs sticking out of the hood,rock on Richard.holding my breath for the Buick testing.
Cool test! Now I'm wondering of my '70 C10 has enough clearance to hide one of these beauties.
I really enjoy your videos. It would have been nice to use the same carbs throughout the intake test. I bet the first ram would have benefited from the increased airflow.
You should build an engine small or big block one with 9:1 cr and then 13:1 or more on E85 and show the hp and tq differences.
You know what would make it even more awesome??
Carb hats for BOOST!!!!
more awesomer
Super cool ty!!
Keep it up 👍
She needs twin 76mm turbos....that'll fix the power curve😝
Brother Django Dakota : lol...a-ha. A-HA!
That's the perfect solution
What about testing those old single 4bbl tunnel rams. Hit the swap meets and look for old Offenhauser, Weiand, and Edelbrocks.
That is awesome bro and I wonder what will the max hp b na. I can imagine what boost will b like lol
Right on
It would be interesting to make a set of heads that have removable pieces that would allow a person to adjust the compression. It would be interesting from the dyno perspective not so much anywhere else. That way you could keep everything else the same and just change the volume of the head.
Unity motorsports garage channel runs a Ford truck daily driver with a tunnel ram. Has some great tuning knowledge as well a just a bad A truck.
Im curious to know the most power you could get out of this engine? Maxed out race only naturally aspirated. Would be really fun.
I was always told tunnel rams are terrible on the street. Race only. Well this proves they can be run on the street when properly tuned and they make lots of power from idle to WOT. Thanks for the great videos Rich. Keep up the great work. All this info is outstanding.
Great stuff, thankyou. What are the cross section and valve-to-plenum length?
On Apple Valley CA FaceBook MarketPlace there is a 1975-6-7 complete AMC 360 it looks like for sale asking $500 and incorrectly labeled as a 1968-69. FaceBook MarketPlace has became 'the place' for used stuff. Sure would like to see how a slightly 'Rubbed On' AMC 304 could stack-up to your recent DZ302 vs Boss 302 Shootout !
Being the BBC's an engine that has cylinder head design flaws, with short/long runners and feeding the center of the cylinder on four bores... while the other four cylinders are fed into the cylinder walls... I'm suspect to gains being favorable from the four deprived cylinders through velocity gains, resulting in improved volumetric efficiency to the four slightly starved bores. (short intake runners, not so short with a ram)
every single plane intake has longs and shorts-the small difference in the head ports is all but irrelevant
Would have been nice to see a comparison between the ported tunnel ram and the baseline Team-G manifold combo. Seems like some sizable gains.
hit me up-I can show you the curves
@@richardholdener1727 that's OK I did a mental overlay using two screen shots. That is some nice increase, only lost about 20hp down around 3500, breaks even about 4200, and picked up about 150hp at 5700, and goes up from there. I'd gladly trade that.
Just to remind Richard about his history. DRAGONSLAYER heads are worth 50 HP. I can't afford them so I got the Dart and Brodix stickers and settled for the 20 HP gain. Just saying, there is nothing like sticker HP. Hey what if you put a sticker on one of your test motors? I bet it would solve a lot of tunability issues. LOL Keep up the good work. Richard always goes for the win!
Did I miss the cam specs somewhere?
All fine and dandy for the dyno. But hook up a cam of any big size with low compression and run it in a car. Very specific to race set ups basically.
the power we see on the dyno translates directly to the street and track-you can run any cam with any compression
What was the compression on this motor ?
So tunnel rams with boost? 😱
I'd like to see you use a Vac gauge in tests like that. It would be interesting to see what it's pulling at WOT. Also running the 2 750's on the Wilson manifolds.
WE HAVE VAC READINGS FROM THE DYNO USUALLY
@@richardholdener1727 It would be interesting if you discussed or posted them so we could see how it changes and let's you (as a tuner) if the engine is getting all the flow it wants, or can use. Thanks for the videos and all the hard work. ... Still would like to see you do a "cheap" 460 (508") off-set ground stock crank, .060 over, good heads, some compression and run on propane ( 104 octane) I think it would be fun. Thoughts ?
Richard, how much power would you expect to see had that engine been around 13.1 and ran on e85?
+15% approx
@@richardholdener1727 When you use a tunnel ram on a street/strip engine, do you take what you used for a single carb and split the cfm for the two carbs on the tunnel ram? Why or why not?) I want to duplicate the MPG 609 hp stock stroke 460 BBF engine (but Scott suggested I go with aluminum SCJ's instead of his heads), and use a Weiand tunnel ram. What carbs would you suggest? If altitude is a thing, I live in NE Florida. Thanks!
Hey if you get the opportunity. Please test Edelbrock’s fuel injected tunnel ram. I purchased one for my engine a while back. I have not had the chance to test it as of yet. Going on a bbc 477ci . 4.5 bore 3.75 stroke engine with AFR 315 CNC heads. Thanks love the info you provide.
maybe show the volume efficiency flow of different combos
Would like to see boost with ported tunnel ram...👍
I'm with you that should be the next test, but he will probably go back to the Team-G manifold.
Have you tested a 400 sbc with sb2 heads?
Awesome tests, on the mild setup do you think a airgap dual plane would make more midrange power
I don't think on this motor
tunnel ram intakes have a more equal runner length, its the plenum under neath the carbs,that makes the power, I wonder what would happen if you ran two 390 four barrel Hollys, with fat jets and the proper power valves
Yes big block chevy 👍
So, hypothetically, a dominator is too big for some engines, but that's only when the throttle is wide open. What about part-throttle? In theory, the air has to accelerate in order to go around the throttle plate at part-throttle on a dominator, which has a similar cross section to a wide-open 650. So, would a 1/2 throttle pull on a dominator deliver the same performance as a wide-open 650 on a really basic SBC with some adapter plates?
Dude I miss you getting busy to the techno music in the beginning of the video I bet your wife gets mad to I'm gonna tell her to make you dance on the videos
she loves when I dance
That polished one came very close.. Could it be machined for injectors for seeking that magic 1000 hp mark without power adders. More cam, giant butterfly valve (or even bigger slide valve..) on top of the plenum, a bit more compression and a bigger spark.
Another great video. I’d like to know your thoughts about this motor and the 565. Do you think this motor would crack the 900hp mark with more compression and bigger cam, one comparable to the that cam you used in the 565?
yes I do
How does a tunnel ram work under boost compared to other style intakes ? Do you have a video on that already ? Or does more NA power = more boosted power and the tunnel ram is not a factor ?
it is still a factor
BBC plus tunnel ram, could it be any better? Maybe drill those high pads for injectors, add throttle bodies, and maybe two S475s?
Did you try a large carb spacer under the dominator on the single plane?
we tried an NOS plate-does that count?
Richard another myth busted-tunnel Rams are for racing. Long runners improve power!
The Long runners of a tunnel ram make torque but the large plenum volume kills torque but makes high rpm and power . Am I understanding tunnel rams correctly ?
runner length, yes-plenum doesn't do that
Great Stuff... though It's all become too COSTLY. $$$$$ You can go fast as your money will take you.
How wicked bad is that thing with a tunnel ram ,could you do a test on it with staggered stack kinzler mechanical injection ??/
It show’s that with enough cubes an engine makes plenty of torque so single plane is the way to go
What do you think caused the drop off on power at 6800 rpm from the Weiand TR and the single plane? Doesn't seem like valvetrain since I don't think you changed (unless I missed it). Was that where the shorter runners caught up with the longer runners of the TR? Seems weird and interesting.
They come with bad port alignment in the upper to lower plenum. Some mild porting on the weiand TR should help it a lot.
Rich, out of curiosity how much more power do u think the last test would have made if the comp was at 11:1 for example. 👍
+6-8%
Nice tests. How much compression ratio with a 98cc head.
use wallace racing calculators on line
Stupid short story here , back about 16 years ago I was at a car show in Edmonton Alberta ( Canada ) ..... planet earth.... anyways from about 500 feet away I hear this split bumper Camaro coming into the car show ( very cool car ) it had a Ridiculously large Pro Stock style hood scoop on it and you could look into the scoop , you'd see two carbs Linkages , and that was about all you could see . He never opened the hood but it said 511 cid on the side of the scoop and there was twin carbs and you'd hear the Whine of a blower it sounded very stout ......about 3-4 years later I see that same car once again getting gas so I go over to him and tell him I seen the car years before , o told him I'm a blower fan and was digging his set up . Well I felt like a complete idiot because when him and I took the hood off the car and placed it on the roof I then seen it was a tunnel ram and the " blower whine "was his timing gears 😅😂😂😂😂 yup little Awkward 😂 so these day I just stick to blaming squirrels no matter what .
John Woodworth : Personally, just in this instance, I blame Peter Jackson. The Gear Drive manufactor. Not the Director. Squirrels are in this case...off the Hook!
Dean Stevenson lol good point
dang gear drives!
Richard Holdener : As long as there arent any Dyno Saur pile ups like in a King.Kong remade Peter Jackson movie, geardrives are a Sound Idea...
May have asked this before but have you tested one of those 4 pattern cams on a big block chevy
westech has
Richard I know you have talked about this a little before. Do you have any tests for fuel locations such as efi port injectors at the mouth on the head vrs the mouth of the running vrs a carb? I know the argument for close in to the head is better idle and emissions, but I'm curious on your take from plenum level efi vrs carb?
we move injector locations-it helps power
@@richardholdener1727 I know I saw you mention it in a video, I thought maybe you had some numbers and tests showing it, that might be entertaining from the peanut gallery.
👐
In the past you have demonstrated that you can make a good estimate of power gain based on how many atmospheres of boost you add to an engine, can you do the same thing to estimate how much power would be gained by increasing compression?
3-4% per point in the sweet spot (8-12)
Have you guys done the same testing on a similar sized Ford motor
Not this test-have run fords with tunnel rams
Richard did you order this 540 as a short block from dart???
WE GOT THIS THROUGH A MARINE DEALER
@@richardholdener1727 ok. I’m looking to build a similar platform with custom ground cam, 871 blower, tunnel ram manifold and mechanically fuel injected for my vdrive drag boat.
Does any of these require a 4-7 swap with tunnel ram
no
Howdy. May I ask, might the love of Tunnel Rams be extended to the CrossRam "Street Tunnel Ram" Intakes? From research, it appears the CrossRam Intake Manifolds were developed due to Racing Sanctioning Body Rules that dictated a stock all Metal Hood, thus the engineers "laid down" the Long Runners of a conventional Tunnel and created the CrossRam Intakes, other wise known as a "Street Tunnel Ram". Thus the Edelbrock Moniker "STR-10" for their Chevy Version & "STR-11" for their AMC Version, which actually Edelbrock 1st developed for the AMC Javelin Trans Am Cars by Ronnie Kaplan, before Edelbrock did their SBC version. Offenhauser also made thier version for the SBC that was the most faithful to the original official GM Design "Snowflake" Winters Foundry casting mark OEM CrossRam Intake manifold. And it just so happens that in late 1967 or very early 1968 the '2nd Design' Holley Carburetor that GM Engineer Mr. Bill Howell conceived, designed, financed, and issued for use with the Z28 302 CrossRam 'Induction Kit' GM # 3940077 was the Holley List 4295 ~585 CFM Double Pumper, which just so happens to be THE VERY FIRST EVER HOLLEY DOUBLE PUMPER !!!! All Holley Double Pumpers roots go back to that List 4295 created by GM Engineer the honorable Mr. Bill Howell, of the current company, Howell Fuel Injection. Thank You for all your hard work and infectious enthusiasm.
yes on cross rams
up state dirt mods make 750 plus on a single big carb
Richard, why do the torque curve and horsepower curve always cross at 5250 RPM's ?
Norm Hodgkinson : Hey there. I know you asked Richard, not me, Sorry to be the Non Richard "Butinski". Do see the two minutes and 36 second post. 5252 is the proper Imperial constant. 9554 is the Metric constant for Nm to kW were torque and power cross. But sometimes chassis dyno graphs dont cross at that point if the scales differ. James Watt worked it out drawing a 550 pound load a certain distance in a certain time...back in the mines at the dawn of the Industrial Revolution....and then defined that as horsepower first. Torque was derived from that. On engine dynos today, we calculate torque then horsepower. Please See ruclips.net/video/L-faWLthbMU/видео.html
Another longer but better vid is the venerable Master Kyle. Sing to the Bay...
ruclips.net/video/lt7iUBE3_AE/видео.html
I think you would also see the same gains, as a percent, on the flow bench with these three intake manifolds. I don't think that hi ram can flow 400cfm per runner. It out dates cnc heads.
we also have a runner length change between the first two