It's all to support "One Person, One Key, One Lock". Large companies may need to order thousands or tens of thousands of these locks, all keyed different. Companies are even discouraged from allowing contractors to introduce outside locks due to the possibility of a lock being keyed the same as one of the corporate locks. Master will even send key charting documents with the key codes for every lock to prove they have no duplicates, and support it by making sure future orders are not duplicated with prior orders as well. So six pins gives you more unique keys. As for the security pins, I imagine it's to help prevent accidental opening with the wrong key by accidental bumping or raking. The keyway is also restricted so that duplicates can not be created in the field to bypass the "one key" rule. You *should* not be able to find blanks for these in the wild. You can also order them keyed alike, master keyed, grand master keyed, and even great grand master keyed. OSHA does allow non-destructive removal of the locks if it can be verified that the employee is no longer onsite. It does require quite a bit of extra documentation and procedure creation on the part of the company to do this though.
The security pins are there to prevent claims that a LOTO lock was picked open either during or after an accident, which is a claim that could be made to shift fault for an accident from a negligent technician to the company. Likewise most LOTO locks use ball-bearing lockup to avoid claims of shimming the lock. It's all about avoiding lawsuits and false claims.
6^6 is still under 47 thousand configurations, so you *definitely* need to do it not-random if you want tens of thousands keyed-unalike. You will not have a greatgrandmasterkey system with tens of thousands of different locks, for sure.
Here’s your OSHA reference: 1910.147(c)(5) As others have said on this thread, makes no specific reference to pins. That wouldn’t make sense anyway. No government entity is going to write it that way. Just like they moved to performance specifications for procurement about 40 years ago. That is, when the government wants to buy something, they tell you WHAT it must do, not HOW to build it. Of course as I say that, the FAA requires Part 21 pilots to carry a flashlight with D cell batteries. Most ignored FAA reg on the books.
@Chris P Bacon Like I said, they can be ordered keyed alike, or they can be ordered and documented as no-duplicates. It's up to the applicable OSHA rules and internal company policies.
From OSHA standards. 1910.147(c)(5)(ii)(C)(1) Lockout devices. Lockout devices shall be substantial enough to prevent removal without the use of excessive force or unusual techniques, such as with the use of bolt cutters or other metal cutting tools. No specific rule on number of pins.
also if a source of supply is turned on and your lock is removed it's on you no questions asked but if the lock is destructively removed which would be very obvious it's no longer on you unless they do an investigation and find it was actually you
You can probably blame the existence of locks like this on the government since we are voracious consumers of locks and our Electrical Work Program requirements are more stringent than OSHA regs. In fact, the full LOTO procedure for my machine requires 7 separate locks, 3 plug lock devices, 6 6-hole hasp devices, one breaker lockout device, and 6 separate verifications of zero-energy state.
@@donniedial3014 There is a rule about one key, one lock, one employee which explains the pin count but not the extent of the security pinning. That part is probably just CYA for preventing surreptitious removal.
I always figured/was told that osha requires that only the operator of the lock can be able to open it (aside from a spare key being locked away with other lockout keys for emergencies) and that for legal reasons they have to be able to show signs of malicious tampering such as a cheap plastic case
I found this channel when looking at bicycle locks, and I ended up staying because picking locks is interesting as hell, where I'm tempted to get into it myself.
Code Void You should! Both LPL & BB got me started. I watched around 100 of their videos before getting my first pick set & repinnable locks. They are really good teachers so I knew what to expect, and it ended up being a ton of fun! =)
I think the most logical explanation for these locks is that picking is considered more of a problem than destructive entry, because with destructive entry it leaves a trace.
I have a dozen of these hanging from my tool bag and use a number of them daily. I completely understand and appreciate what they are meant for. I've seen our machines slice a 17mm allan wrench into bits without hesitation.. it's just super annoying getting the right key.
Samuel James once you get an open and know the sequence they are quite simple. Just make sure you lock it the correct way or you will lose the key pins out of the top of the lock body. Not that I ever did that. lol
I found a broken one of these in the warehouse at work today and my boss let me have it. Going to try picking it once I bend the shackle back into place.
Cool bro. Good luck. Hopefully you can do it. Im just recently getting into lock picking and I'm able to rake open a couple of locks with a cheap lockpick.
That's a fast pick!. I never looked at my Brady close enough to see it was one you can disassemble. Mine feels like at least some pins are like serrated spools. Love those locks for practice and they're cheap too.
This video finally answered the question as to why my spools haven't helped the pick resistance of my security door locks when I added spool pins. I learned something today.
We get this Brady/Abus padlocks issued at work, one of my partners lost the key to his padlock, so i asked him to give it to me, i wanted to give it a shot and try to pick it, i'm a begginer, and this was by far the hardest lock that i've tried to pick and i did it!, feel so proud
The requirement in Canada is pretty much that it requires excessive force, is handled by CSA standard z460 (-05 i think). I think that ANSI Z244.1 and US OSHA’s reg CFR1910.147 is for the USA. The big thing, the only way these are designed to be removed is an obvious brute force technique. Something where you need either a hammer, bolt cutters, or some other means of mechanical destruction. The phrase they use is "Be substantial enough to prevent removal of the energy-isolating device without excessive force, unusual measures or destructive techniques." Better known as they don't want someone opening a master lock (or other garbage lock) with a bobby pin or a zip tie. That is where i think the security pins and 6 pin lock stuff comes from. If a LOTO lock is opened in a non-destructive manner, that does not require a skill, then it puts the company manufacturing it into a very serious situation for legal proceedings. That's why the plastic locks are allowed, as they can be smashed with a hammer.
Fast pick! Drivers similar to my new Abus except mine has a light double serrated key pin in chamber #1. I managed to fit a .040" Peterson pry bar into the "A" warding.
I have had both of these issued to me, the most recent is the 410 lock with a nylon shackle. I can't consistently pick my LOTO lock, but if someone leaves their lock on by accident and we cannot contact them then they can be opened by a half twist of the lock body with a screwdriver in the shackle. The OSHA regs state that all padlocks have only one key and that all keys be unique. I think 6 pins is just to allow for a larger number of unique padlocks. Based on my current US government issue Master with a plastic shackle [insulation reasons due to high powered electric equipment and lockout in panels] they also don't require them to have a metal shackle.
These are cool, I hadn't seen one until you sent me one. I like them a lot. I have since purchased several more and take them along with masters on trips and such, as practice locks since they're light weight. Thanks!
I bought 6 of these to practice with. What I didn't realize is if you pick this lock and turn the key 180 degrees the driver pins will drop into the holes drilled in the bottom of the keyway. You then have to push all the pins back into the bible under tension to turn the lock back into the starting position. Fun to pick though.
the only thing is, only one key for one lock and not 2 by accident keyed alike, so that is why they need the complexity to insure you don't by accident pull a key a bit out and get an open. A simple 5pin with an open keyway could maybe jiggle a key to open. And all the plastic inside is to make sure the key never get live, even if the shackle gets in contact with exposed electric contacts.
VERY nice picking. If I can duplicate your method, I too will be able to SPP like a pro. I want to get an ABUS/Brady LOTO. Where do you find them, and what is the average price? I have a progressive lock that I can key up with spools, or anything, but they seem unusually easy to open. It's not that I have mad skills. A regular lock, like a padlock, seems to be much harder to open in some cases, than the bare core. I also got that HUK kit, and I like how you explained what everything is, and how to use them. That was in another video of yours. You just demonstrated how to SPP a lock with security pins. Now all I need is a lock like that, some time off from work, and practice. Lot's of practice. I will master SPP. For now I am happy with any non destructive way of getting into a lock without a key. Hello, my name is William, and I am addicted to lock Picking. Lockaholics Anonymous, local chapter 13.
Nice picking LPLAWYER! I think I heard you say that there are only two of the Abus/Brady LOTO padlocks but I have an Abus/Brady that is similar to the one in this video, although the core isn't held in with a screw. It has a small spring loaded pin down the shackle hole that you have to press in and the core is able to be removed. Mine actually has a SFIC type looking core but it is smaller than the normal SFIC cores.
Nice picking and a great vid. as always.Good biting on that key.That's why i like to pick Abus padlocks,so much fun,full of spools,great tolerance and so unpredictable locks especially with that kind of key biting.Excellent to practise your tension control :)
I'm 99% sure that the reason for the top end cylinder and security pins on a plastic body lock is to make it more "Tamper Evident". If the lock was cut off, it was obviously in place and removed by someone who did not have the key, and that they did in fact see the lock and it didn't just fall on the floor or something. Otherwise a plain old Tag Out tag would do the trick. I suspect these tags, and the cheaper locks tend to just disappear when a machine gets turned on and someone gets hurt as a result. So the lawyers/insurance companies want to be able to prove whoever turned the machine on was fully aware there was a lock and knowingly removed it and is therefore at fault.
Hmmmm.. but the lock should physically prevent the equipment from being energised, or (in the case of complex isolations) prevent the keys to the isolation lock/s from being accessed. That's the whole point of LOTO
lpl the abus 74/40 loto can you feature that lock? The key way is brutal very paracentric , managed to rake open a few but not spp the key way featured in this video appears much more wide open Thanks for all the great videos!!
The pin count and security pin is simple it was lawyered in. The purpose of a lotto lock is to keep someone from getting hurt or killed by locking the system out. Now they can be defeated by someone with bad intent but with what you have in the locks it is less likely someone will stick the wrong key in and get a unintentionally unlocked machine there by hurting someone. So if someone is trying to hurt someone they can defeat the lock but less likely the manufacturer will get in trouble because the lock was opened with the wrong key or through anything less than intent to open lock to begin with. That's my thoughts anyway. I have worked with lotto systems for years.
Some of the states might have regulations concerning requirements of LOTO locks in the absence of OSHA regulations. For instance, I remember reading that the State of California requires locks used for LOTO to have no fewer than 10,000 differs but I can't find the regulation now. The idea behind the plastic body LOTO locks is to eliminate a potential conductivity hazard and not so much that they operate like a reusable seal.
If you happen to seed this, have you seen a Brady lockout tagout with a thinner, slightly darker shackle and no screw where you started to disassemble yours? Mine is red, same type of key, keyhole and Abus branding placements but I can’t figure out how to start disassembling it since there is no screw. I’ll destroy the plastic if I have to but would rather not and didnt know if you have seen this lock and if it is meant to have a non removable core or if I am missing something. This would be my first gut so I feel like I might be missing something obvious - the plastic body has no lines on the bottom or elsewhere to indicate that it comers apart either. Thanks for any info and thank you for your videos - they have been super helpful.
I'm learning to pick as a hobby and found this exact Abus Brady from an old LOTO kit and my God this thing is tough! The keyway is tight and the pins keep binding on me. I see where LPL allows counter rotation but when I do that the pins I have set release! Ugh.
The reason I said osha regulations caused the masterlock loto lock super cylinder is that one regulation of the OSHA requirement is only one key can open a lock (They need more key combos so they need a key with more cuts in it). As for the pick resistant cylinder maybe master lock has a soft spot for people who work in the industry. Maybe they thought a great way to sell their locks over the other companies was to offer a pick resistant cylinder.
A lockout lock must only be substantial and secure. OSHA does not specify the build requirements beyond this. Maybe the Master Lock internal components are due to the many keying options that are available?
To simplify what others have been saying, the reason why these LOTO locks are such a paradox, meaning they have high pick-resistance and six pins and security pins encased in a plastic lock body, it because LOTO locks are guarding a HUMAN LIFE while a very dangerous piece of equipment is shut down. Only ONE, SINGLE KEY should ever be opening these locks in the field on a jobsite or facility so the lock core and keys need to support far more bitting differs. The plastic body meanwhile is to make it obvious that somebody not authorized to remove the lock WANTED the machine the lock was guarding back in operation anyway, EVEN if lock's owner had not removed said lock yet and may still performing maintenance. That of course puts the liability for resultant injuries and possible death squarely on the shoulders of whoever destroyed the lock.
Got given 4 of these, similar but not quite the same, mine are LOK009-L in diff colours. Funny thing is, I have no heavy machinary to lockout or tagout. I just like locks. Heh.
Is there a list of regular Abus locks with less secure cores that these LOTO cores fit into correctly to make an upgrade to a regular lock? These Brady/Abus LOTO's are a little more expensive than the Master 410, but much easier to take apart non-destructively. I already have a plan for a 410 to heavier Master Lock transplant, but wondered if it can also be done with these from Abus before I order some.
I doubt there is anything in OSHA standards, but they likely did the security pins to be in compliance with one of the dozens of Mil-Spec requirements, so they could sell to government facilities as well as the public. Keyways would likely be slightly different for Govt.
So if someone wanted to do this (Lock Picking) as a hobby. What would be a good way to start?? Love the work that you do, I have been watching a lot of your videos.
You mentioned that the lock core didn't have drill protection. This one looked to have a plastic body like the Master one did, so why would they have bothered with drill protection?
I have one of these I attempted a pick on and managed to get the core to turn but didn't unlock the lock. After replacing the core to its locked position I can't even open it with a key. Did I push a pin out of place? Thanks for the cool videos!
Hi LockPickingLawyer, what are those holes on the bottom of the Bible? for? does this mean you could remove the locking mechanism, insert the key and turn 180 degrees to release the key pins without undoing the clip?
If you replace the standard driver with a serrated one (as in the Master), considering the keyway too - would this take more trouble than the Master did?
Lockpicking lawyer there is no oscia standard on pin count the lockout locks we used at the beef plant I worked at for 10 years were 5 pins and I have both locks from two different plants both 5 pins and a num7 master lock with 4 pins
Hello all! I found an Abus 71/40 with a green body at work that, unlike the one in the video, has short pins in the keyway opposite the key pins. I've only been involved in this hobby for about a year, so I've yet to see a lock have this feature. Anybody know what I'm talking about?
I think the paradox is more about the question of investigation and assumption of negligence (and arguably the cost of arguing liability associated). With normal padlocks, it generally isn't going to matter how the lock was defeated. It's just a matter that whatever it was protecting is gone. There's always a chance that someone was negligent and did not lock the padlock correctly, but given the regularity of most padlocks being locked, the assumption generally would be that an authorized user of the lock would put it back. Without video evidence to the contrary, this would make it very difficult for a laywer for the insurance company to win an argument that the insurance should not be paid. With a LOTO lock and it's much less frequent use, if the lock is not physically destroyed, it would probably be easier for an insurance lawyer to successfully argue that the lock was not used when an accident occurs, and more likely that the cost of the payout would make it worth the insurance company to try to fight. Also, points a strong direction for the detectives investigating.
I found this PDF that states: Locks used to secure an energy isolation device must be substantial enough to prevent removal without the use of excessive force or unusual techniques. This means our locks must be tough enough that it would take something like bolt cutters or a grinder equipped with a cutting blade to remove them. www.oshatraining.com/cmsdocuments/OSHA_Training_Toolbox_Talk_-_Lockout-Tagout_Requirements_for_Locks.pdf
I never saw a lock with wording "lock out" - so, what is the difference between a padlock and a lock out-padlock? Yes, I see the "WARNING" word an emergency-like color. So, is it used for wheel clamps? I cannot understand the "LOCK OUT". Is it for the purpose to lock a home after an eviction? Here in Germany „sich aussperren“ ("lock out one self") means you accidentily close the door with keys inside.
LOTO is an abbreviation of lock out tag out. In industrial plants/power stations etc. each person working on a piece of equipment places their own lock on the power source or switch for the electric motor so it cannot be energized and injure/kill people that are working on it. Until every lock is removed and every person accounted for, the equipment can not run. It's a safety measure because some systems are automated or human controlled etc. They make them out of plastic in case someone leaves the site and forgets to remove their lock, you would be contacted and accounted for then the lock would be broken off/destroyed. You may be looking for a new job afterwards as well lol.
@@midship_ncThank you. My fuse box has no place to put a padlock to. I am used to find paper signs, which read "do not switch on - works in progress. This sign to removed by XXX (name) only". So, different culture, therefore special locks.
@@galdavonalgerri2101 no problem! You asked an honest question and no one had taken the thirty seconds to explain it. We also have the paper tags and some people use a traditional metal body lock with their laminated LOTO tag attached that states the safety warnings and has their picture etc. One of my customers recently had an accident where someone was working on the incorrect piece of equipment that was not locked out and opened the pipes that were still full of sulfuric acid and he got sprayed in the face and torso.
where i work we put the LOTO lock on a hasp that holds the key for the lock that is on the isolator captive not uncommon for the hasps to be daisy chained with a few hundred LOTO locks on a big shutdown. the 6 pins is to reduce the chance of a duplicate cut on keys when we first started using them they where a 4 pin lock and there were a few times that someone took off the wrong lock thinking it was theirs
OSHA Publication 3120, "What are the requirements for lockout/tagout devices?" "...Substantial enough to minimize the likelihood of premature or accidental removal. Employees should be able to remove locks only by using excessive force with special tools such as bolt cutters or other metal-cutting tools." Nothing specific about pin requirements, etc...
My assumption, there's a life on the line should this be removed. I know for the company I work for we often have 100s of these on one site and 100s more on probably 20 different sites. Need to be sure someone else can't open the lock. So to make sure it's one key one lock they put the 6th pin? But I won't lie these usually get cut at the end cause the keys get lost or misplaced. Just have to be sure it's safe to energize if removing one. Pretty cool to me to know they're actually a fair bit more pick resistant than the other abus locks we have. They sure do cut easy with bolt cutters though.
If not OSHA, why not liability insurance actuary? If ever the lock is compromised they have your paradox as a defense. After all, the lock is protecting a human life worth$750k in settlement, whereas most Master locks secure a few thousand in lawn mowers and jet skis.
Allen Shepard in some cases, a life might be valued at 2 million, or possibly 7, but you’re much more likely to come in under 1 million than closer to ten.
@@JasperJanssen -Shame. I see your point Talking to folks years later they still long for a missing loved one. Yes to bury a child, even a 30 year old child is harder than an aging parent or grandparent but most electricians are young. It is not electricians I worry about - it is non trades folk.
My suspicion for the LOTO locks being so simple to defeat is based on my years in aviation refueling. That is that you can never find a line guy with the tools he needs to get past so much as a suitcase lock, much less a set of lockpicks or bolt cutters. I have seen some emergency locks, with shackles designed to shatter if hit with a hammer, but doing so isn't likely to electrocute someone or drown them in a tank of jet fuel.
lpl the abus 74/40 loto can you feature that lock? The key way is brutal very paracentric , managed to rake open a few but not spp the key way featured in this video appears much more wide open Thanks for all the great videos!!
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It's all to support "One Person, One Key, One Lock". Large companies may need to order thousands or tens of thousands of these locks, all keyed different. Companies are even discouraged from allowing contractors to introduce outside locks due to the possibility of a lock being keyed the same as one of the corporate locks. Master will even send key charting documents with the key codes for every lock to prove they have no duplicates, and support it by making sure future orders are not duplicated with prior orders as well. So six pins gives you more unique keys. As for the security pins, I imagine it's to help prevent accidental opening with the wrong key by accidental bumping or raking. The keyway is also restricted so that duplicates can not be created in the field to bypass the "one key" rule. You *should* not be able to find blanks for these in the wild.
You can also order them keyed alike, master keyed, grand master keyed, and even great grand master keyed. OSHA does allow non-destructive removal of the locks if it can be verified that the employee is no longer onsite. It does require quite a bit of extra documentation and procedure creation on the part of the company to do this though.
Well said. Thanks for the info.
The security pins are there to prevent claims that a LOTO lock was picked open either during or after an accident, which is a claim that could be made to shift fault for an accident from a negligent technician to the company. Likewise most LOTO locks use ball-bearing lockup to avoid claims of shimming the lock.
It's all about avoiding lawsuits and false claims.
6^6 is still under 47 thousand configurations, so you *definitely* need to do it not-random if you want tens of thousands keyed-unalike.
You will not have a greatgrandmasterkey system with tens of thousands of different locks, for sure.
Here’s your OSHA reference: 1910.147(c)(5) As others have said on this thread, makes no specific reference to pins. That wouldn’t make sense anyway. No government entity is going to write it that way. Just like they moved to performance specifications for procurement about 40 years ago. That is, when the government wants to buy something, they tell you WHAT it must do, not HOW to build it. Of course as I say that, the FAA requires Part 21 pilots to carry a flashlight with D cell batteries. Most ignored FAA reg on the books.
@Chris P Bacon Like I said, they can be ordered keyed alike, or they can be ordered and documented as no-duplicates. It's up to the applicable OSHA rules and internal company policies.
From OSHA standards.
1910.147(c)(5)(ii)(C)(1)
Lockout devices. Lockout devices shall be substantial enough to prevent removal without the use of excessive force or unusual techniques, such as with the use of bolt cutters or other metal cutting tools.
No specific rule on number of pins.
I actually didn't know this. I thought they did it because it helped with price and electricity insulation
also if a source of supply is turned on and your lock is removed it's on you no questions asked but if the lock is destructively removed which would be very obvious it's no longer on you unless they do an investigation and find it was actually you
You can probably blame the existence of locks like this on the government since we are voracious consumers of locks and our Electrical Work Program requirements are more stringent than OSHA regs. In fact, the full LOTO procedure for my machine requires 7 separate locks, 3 plug lock devices, 6 6-hole hasp devices, one breaker lockout device, and 6 separate verifications of zero-energy state.
@@donniedial3014 There is a rule about one key, one lock, one employee which explains the pin count but not the extent of the security pinning. That part is probably just CYA for preventing surreptitious removal.
I always figured/was told that osha requires that only the operator of the lock can be able to open it (aside from a spare key being locked away with other lockout keys for emergencies) and that for legal reasons they have to be able to show signs of malicious tampering such as a cheap plastic case
I found this channel when looking at bicycle locks, and I ended up staying because picking locks is interesting as hell, where I'm tempted to get into it myself.
Code Void You should! Both LPL & BB got me started. I watched around 100 of their videos before getting my first pick set & repinnable locks. They are really good teachers so I knew what to expect, and it ended up being a ton of fun! =)
Code Void, same here. i wanted a quality security system for a bicycle. Researching locks, chains, etc turned into a RUclips rabbit hole.
I agree
It took me 4 years to finally do it
Just picked my first LOTO master lock!!! Thanks so much for you videos. This is my new hobby.
Congrats ! I'm still fighting with mine... ^^
Nice picking! That is really cool the warding spells Abus, I would have never noticed that!
Your move, Master Lock.
I think the most logical explanation for these locks is that picking is considered more of a problem than destructive entry, because with destructive entry it leaves a trace.
Picking also leaves a trace. There are forensic tools to tell if a lock has been picked/attempted.
Lol. That’s dumb. No one’s going to look for picking traces unless you have some ultra-high-profile case. Picking is essentially traceless.
@@seanmiller5709 if someone is electrocuted because a loto lock was picked you bet your ass they’d use forensic analysis on the lock
I can tell you for a fact that is not the case on a jobsite with many many tools that could be used to break into one of these
These LOTO locks are really great toys - lightweight and fun to pick. Nicely picked.
I have a dozen of these hanging from my tool bag and use a number of them daily. I completely understand and appreciate what they are meant for. I've seen our machines slice a 17mm allan wrench into bits without hesitation.. it's just super annoying getting the right key.
I love the shape of the keyway
This guy is just too good, I've been working on one of the red master locks for days to no avail. Other then a false set.
Samuel James once you get an open and know the sequence they are quite simple.
Just make sure you lock it the correct way or you will lose the key pins out of the top of the lock body.
Not that I ever did that. lol
This is an old comment. But god I’m in that exact spot false sets with no luck days into it. This damn lock is racking my nerves
great stuff as always. As the others have said, one lock - one key is the requirement.
I found a broken one of these in the warehouse at work today and my boss let me have it. Going to try picking it once I bend the shackle back into place.
Cool bro. Good luck. Hopefully you can do it. Im just recently getting into lock picking and I'm able to rake open a couple of locks with a cheap lockpick.
That's a fast pick!. I never looked at my Brady close enough to see it was one you can disassemble. Mine feels like at least some pins are like serrated spools. Love those locks for practice and they're cheap too.
This video finally answered the question as to why my spools haven't helped the pick resistance of my security door locks when I added spool pins. I learned something today.
We get this Brady/Abus padlocks issued at work, one of my partners lost the key to his padlock, so i asked him to give it to me, i wanted to give it a shot and try to pick it, i'm a begginer, and this was by far the hardest lock that i've tried to pick and i did it!, feel so proud
The requirement in Canada is pretty much that it requires excessive force, is handled by CSA standard z460 (-05 i think). I think that ANSI Z244.1 and US OSHA’s reg CFR1910.147 is for the USA.
The big thing, the only way these are designed to be removed is an obvious brute force technique. Something where you need either a hammer, bolt cutters, or some other means of mechanical destruction. The phrase they use is "Be substantial enough to prevent removal of the energy-isolating device without excessive force, unusual measures or destructive techniques." Better known as they don't want someone opening a master lock (or other garbage lock) with a bobby pin or a zip tie. That is where i think the security pins and 6 pin lock stuff comes from. If a LOTO lock is opened in a non-destructive manner, that does not require a skill, then it puts the company manufacturing it into a very serious situation for legal proceedings. That's why the plastic locks are allowed, as they can be smashed with a hammer.
Fast pick! Drivers similar to my new Abus except mine has a light double serrated key pin in chamber #1. I managed to fit a .040" Peterson pry bar into the "A" warding.
Nice padlock,not seen one you can gut like that before.
Thanks for sharing 👍👍🍺😘
I have had both of these issued to me, the most recent is the 410 lock with a nylon shackle. I can't consistently pick my LOTO lock, but if someone leaves their lock on by accident and we cannot contact them then they can be opened by a half twist of the lock body with a screwdriver in the shackle.
The OSHA regs state that all padlocks have only one key and that all keys be unique. I think 6 pins is just to allow for a larger number of unique padlocks. Based on my current US government issue Master with a plastic shackle [insulation reasons due to high powered electric equipment and lockout in panels] they also don't require them to have a metal shackle.
These are cool, I hadn't seen one until you sent me one. I like them a lot. I have since purchased several more and take them along with masters on trips and such, as practice locks since they're light weight. Thanks!
I bought 6 of these to practice with. What I didn't realize is if you pick this lock and turn the key 180 degrees the driver pins will drop into the holes drilled in the bottom of the keyway. You then have to push all the pins back into the bible under tension to turn the lock back into the starting position. Fun to pick though.
the only thing is, only one key for one lock and not 2 by accident keyed alike, so that is why they need the complexity to insure you don't by accident pull a key a bit out and get an open. A simple 5pin with an open keyway could maybe jiggle a key to open. And all the plastic inside is to make sure the key never get live, even if the shackle gets in contact with exposed electric contacts.
I got given 2 410 locks at work and they happened to be keyed alike
VERY nice picking. If I can duplicate your method, I too will be able to SPP like a pro. I want to get an ABUS/Brady LOTO. Where do you find them, and what is the average price?
I have a progressive lock that I can key up with spools, or anything, but they seem unusually easy to open. It's not that I have mad skills. A regular lock, like a padlock, seems to be much harder to open in some cases, than the bare core. I also got that HUK kit, and I like how you explained what everything is, and how to use them. That was in another video of yours. You just demonstrated how to SPP a lock with security pins. Now all I need is a lock like that, some time off from work, and practice. Lot's of practice. I will master SPP. For now I am happy with any non destructive way of getting into a lock without a key.
Hello, my name is William, and I am addicted to lock Picking. Lockaholics Anonymous, local chapter 13.
Nice picking LPLAWYER! I think I heard you say that there are only two of the Abus/Brady LOTO padlocks but I have an Abus/Brady that is similar to the one in this video, although the core isn't held in with a screw. It has a small spring loaded pin down the shackle hole that you have to press in and the core is able to be removed. Mine actually has a SFIC type looking core but it is smaller than the normal SFIC cores.
Great picking brother as always, thanks for sharing it with us
Nice picking and a great vid. as always.Good biting on that key.That's why i like to pick Abus padlocks,so much fun,full of spools,great tolerance and so unpredictable locks especially with that kind of key biting.Excellent to practise your tension control :)
I'm 99% sure that the reason for the top end cylinder and security pins on a plastic body lock is to make it more "Tamper Evident". If the lock was cut off, it was obviously in place and removed by someone who did not have the key, and that they did in fact see the lock and it didn't just fall on the floor or something. Otherwise a plain old Tag Out tag would do the trick. I suspect these tags, and the cheaper locks tend to just disappear when a machine gets turned on and someone gets hurt as a result. So the lawyers/insurance companies want to be able to prove whoever turned the machine on was fully aware there was a lock and knowingly removed it and is therefore at fault.
Hmmmm.. but the lock should physically prevent the equipment from being energised, or (in the case of complex isolations) prevent the keys to the isolation lock/s from being accessed. That's the whole point of LOTO
lpl the abus 74/40 loto can you feature that lock? The key way is brutal very paracentric , managed to rake open a few but not spp the key way featured in this video appears much more wide open Thanks for all the great videos!!
I’ve never seen them with the danger tag on them. Our red locks are American Locks, and we all have a red lock key that will work on them 9/10.
The pin count and security pin is simple it was lawyered in. The purpose of a lotto lock is to keep someone from getting hurt or killed by locking the system out. Now they can be defeated by someone with bad intent but with what you have in the locks it is less likely someone will stick the wrong key in and get a unintentionally unlocked machine there by hurting someone. So if someone is trying to hurt someone they can defeat the lock but less likely the manufacturer will get in trouble because the lock was opened with the wrong key or through anything less than intent to open lock to begin with. That's my thoughts anyway. I have worked with lotto systems for years.
Some of the states might have regulations concerning requirements of LOTO locks in the absence of OSHA regulations. For instance, I remember reading that the State of California requires locks used for LOTO to have no fewer than 10,000 differs but I can't find the regulation now. The idea behind the plastic body LOTO locks is to eliminate a potential conductivity hazard and not so much that they operate like a reusable seal.
If you happen to seed this, have you seen a Brady lockout tagout with a thinner, slightly darker shackle and no screw where you started to disassemble yours? Mine is red, same type of key, keyhole and Abus branding placements but I can’t figure out how to start disassembling it since there is no screw. I’ll destroy the plastic if I have to but would rather not and didnt know if you have seen this lock and if it is meant to have a non removable core or if I am missing something. This would be my first gut so I feel like I might be missing something obvious - the plastic body has no lines on the bottom or elsewhere to indicate that it comers apart either. Thanks for any info and thank you for your videos - they have been super helpful.
I'm learning to pick as a hobby and found this exact Abus Brady from an old LOTO kit and my God this thing is tough! The keyway is tight and the pins keep binding on me. I see where LPL allows counter rotation but when I do that the pins I have set release! Ugh.
Cool little lock! I'll keep an eye out for them on ebay
Totally amazing LPL frist one i seen able to be gutted. wondering what was inside. 5 spools in a 6pin.hay nice spp thanks for sharing. 😎😎😎😎😎
Got a bunch of the red ones as a HD mechanic and now I'm unemployed so I'm gonna get a set of picks and start learning
The reason I said osha regulations caused the masterlock loto lock super cylinder is that one regulation of the OSHA requirement is only one key can open a lock (They need more key combos so they need a key with more cuts in it). As for the pick resistant cylinder maybe master lock has a soft spot for people who work in the industry. Maybe they thought a great way to sell their locks over the other companies was to offer a pick resistant cylinder.
Nice one.
A lockout lock must only be substantial and secure. OSHA does not specify the build requirements beyond this. Maybe the Master Lock internal components are due to the many keying options that are available?
To simplify what others have been saying, the reason why these LOTO locks are such a paradox, meaning they have high pick-resistance and six pins and security pins encased in a plastic lock body, it because LOTO locks are guarding a HUMAN LIFE while a very dangerous piece of equipment is shut down. Only ONE, SINGLE KEY should ever be opening these locks in the field on a jobsite or facility so the lock core and keys need to support far more bitting differs. The plastic body meanwhile is to make it obvious that somebody not authorized to remove the lock WANTED the machine the lock was guarding back in operation anyway, EVEN if lock's owner had not removed said lock yet and may still performing maintenance. That of course puts the liability for resultant injuries and possible death squarely on the shoulders of whoever destroyed the lock.
Got given 4 of these, similar but not quite the same, mine are LOK009-L in diff colours. Funny thing is, I have no heavy machinary to lockout or tagout. I just like locks. Heh.
Is there a list of regular Abus locks with less secure cores that these LOTO cores fit into correctly to make an upgrade to a regular lock? These Brady/Abus LOTO's are a little more expensive than the Master 410, but much easier to take apart non-destructively. I already have a plan for a 410 to heavier Master Lock transplant, but wondered if it can also be done with these from Abus before I order some.
Got a box of like 10 of those masterlock ones at work
Great stuff as normal! I now have bucket loads of theoretical practice to conquer the world but ...meh, who can be bothered? lol 😂👍👍👍
I doubt there is anything in OSHA standards, but they likely did the security pins to be in compliance with one of the dozens of Mil-Spec requirements, so they could sell to government facilities as well as the public. Keyways would likely be slightly different for Govt.
Excellent video. The key stays in lock when unlocked. How does that work? Some kind of keeper pin?
So if someone wanted to do this (Lock Picking) as a hobby. What would be a good way to start?? Love the work that you do, I have been watching a lot of your videos.
Hey, if the other side of the key hole isn't blocked, does it mean we could access the actuator ?
This lock looks Bypassable. is this so?
Just found two of these in a local shop, got them both for £1.
I am a safety professional who has poured over LOTO regulations for years and I will say with confidence that no such 6 pin requirement exists.
You mentioned that the lock core didn't have drill protection. This one looked to have a plastic body like the Master one did, so why would they have bothered with drill protection?
I have one of these I attempted a pick on and managed to get the core to turn but didn't unlock the lock. After replacing the core to its locked position I can't even open it with a key. Did I push a pin out of place? Thanks for the cool videos!
Hi LockPickingLawyer, what are those holes on the bottom of the Bible? for? does this mean you could remove the locking mechanism, insert the key and turn 180 degrees to release the key pins without undoing the clip?
If you replace the standard driver with a serrated one (as in the Master), considering the keyway too - would this take more trouble than the Master did?
This design looks by-passable. Did you try it?
Where do I get key blanks for this 70/40 lock? I need like 5 key blanks to cut for these locks.
Lockpicking lawyer there is no oscia standard on pin count the lockout locks we used at the beef plant I worked at for 10 years were 5 pins and I have both locks from two different plants both 5 pins and a num7 master lock with 4 pins
Hello all! I found an Abus 71/40 with a green body at work that, unlike the one in the video, has short pins in the keyway opposite the key pins. I've only been involved in this hobby for about a year, so I've yet to see a lock have this feature. Anybody know what I'm talking about?
Would that brady core work in any masterlock?
That core looks like it could be bypassed. Can you confirm if it actually could be?
I think the paradox is more about the question of investigation and assumption of negligence (and arguably the cost of arguing liability associated).
With normal padlocks, it generally isn't going to matter how the lock was defeated. It's just a matter that whatever it was protecting is gone. There's always a chance that someone was negligent and did not lock the padlock correctly, but given the regularity of most padlocks being locked, the assumption generally would be that an authorized user of the lock would put it back. Without video evidence to the contrary, this would make it very difficult for a laywer for the insurance company to win an argument that the insurance should not be paid.
With a LOTO lock and it's much less frequent use, if the lock is not physically destroyed, it would probably be easier for an insurance lawyer to successfully argue that the lock was not used when an accident occurs, and more likely that the cost of the payout would make it worth the insurance company to try to fight. Also, points a strong direction for the detectives investigating.
Can you comb pick this lock open?
nice!
I know that red lock. First one i ever picked
1:15 Define some
that zombies player , I see the problem, you misspelled all.
It kinda looks like that lock could be bypassed alike the Americans. unlock the master, look at the tailpiece...I'd go with the master
Referring to the Master lock here
Would that core fit into a generic Chinese American lock 700 copy?
Yes
Perhaps Master Lock is rebranding someone else's lock. Maybe they don't mess with the plastic injection molding process.
I found this PDF that states:
Locks used to secure an energy isolation device must be substantial enough to prevent
removal without the use of excessive force or unusual techniques. This means our locks
must be tough enough that it would take something like bolt cutters or a grinder
equipped with a cutting blade to remove them.
www.oshatraining.com/cmsdocuments/OSHA_Training_Toolbox_Talk_-_Lockout-Tagout_Requirements_for_Locks.pdf
Then I hope the plastic is heat resistant enough so using a lighter can't soften it.
Vaasref that would probably fall under unusual techniques, the use is to make sure the lock wont come off without a person wanting it off, that's it
I never saw a lock with wording "lock out" - so, what is the difference between a padlock and a lock out-padlock?
Yes, I see the "WARNING" word an emergency-like color. So, is it used for wheel clamps? I cannot understand the "LOCK OUT". Is it for the purpose to lock a home after an eviction? Here in Germany „sich aussperren“ ("lock out one self") means you accidentily close the door with keys inside.
LOTO is an abbreviation of lock out tag out. In industrial plants/power stations etc. each person working on a piece of equipment places their own lock on the power source or switch for the electric motor so it cannot be energized and injure/kill people that are working on it. Until every lock is removed and every person accounted for, the equipment can not run. It's a safety measure because some systems are automated or human controlled etc. They make them out of plastic in case someone leaves the site and forgets to remove their lock, you would be contacted and accounted for then the lock would be broken off/destroyed. You may be looking for a new job afterwards as well lol.
@@midship_ncThank you. My fuse box has no place to put a padlock to. I am used to find paper signs, which read "do not switch on - works in progress. This sign to removed by XXX (name) only". So, different culture, therefore special locks.
@@galdavonalgerri2101 no problem! You asked an honest question and no one had taken the thirty seconds to explain it. We also have the paper tags and some people use a traditional metal body lock with their laminated LOTO tag attached that states the safety warnings and has their picture etc. One of my customers recently had an accident where someone was working on the incorrect piece of equipment that was not locked out and opened the pipes that were still full of sulfuric acid and he got sprayed in the face and torso.
where i work we put the LOTO lock on a hasp that holds the key for the lock that is on the isolator captive not uncommon for the hasps to be daisy chained with a few hundred LOTO locks on a big shutdown. the 6 pins is to reduce the chance of a duplicate cut on keys when we first started using them they where a 4 pin lock and there were a few times that someone took off the wrong lock thinking it was theirs
I've been working on this lock for almost a week with no success yet
OSHA Publication 3120, "What are the requirements for lockout/tagout devices?" "...Substantial enough to minimize the likelihood of premature or accidental removal. Employees should be able to remove locks only by using excessive force with special tools such as bolt cutters or other metal-cutting tools."
Nothing specific about pin requirements, etc...
My assumption, there's a life on the line should this be removed. I know for the company I work for we often have 100s of these on one site and 100s more on probably 20 different sites. Need to be sure someone else can't open the lock. So to make sure it's one key one lock they put the 6th pin?
But I won't lie these usually get cut at the end cause the keys get lost or misplaced. Just have to be sure it's safe to energize if removing one. Pretty cool to me to know they're actually a fair bit more pick resistant than the other abus locks we have.
They sure do cut easy with bolt cutters though.
Maybe they just needed better pins to be competitive selling locks to engineers.
Has anyone tried shiming this lock or is it designed liked the master lock 410?
I have the abus padlock.
Can this core be swapped into a Master model 930?
No, but it fits in every American Lock or clone I've tried.
If not OSHA, why not liability insurance actuary? If ever the lock is compromised they have your paradox as a defense. After all, the lock is protecting a human life worth$750k in settlement, whereas most Master locks secure a few thousand in lawn mowers and jet skis.
$750 in settlement ?? Yikes, seems small.
Electrocution or drop forge is a quick way to go.
Wood chipper or ball mill would really suck.
@@allenshepard7992 'k' being shorthand for 1000; in other words, 750k = 750,000.
@@MelissiaBlackheart "Duh" - Homer Simpson.
How did I miss that. (deep voice) Thank you. I forgot to add the K for Kilo in my reply. :)
Allen Shepard in some cases, a life might be valued at 2 million, or possibly 7, but you’re much more likely to come in under 1 million than closer to ten.
@@JasperJanssen -Shame.
I see your point
Talking to folks years later they still long for a missing loved one. Yes to bury a child, even a 30 year old child is harder than an aging parent or grandparent but most electricians are young.
It is not electricians I worry about - it is non trades folk.
Today I got locked out of my house. I'm still in the process of buying a starter kit :(
My suspicion for the LOTO locks being so simple to defeat is based on my years in aviation refueling. That is that you can never find a line guy with the tools he needs to get past so much as a suitcase lock, much less a set of lockpicks or bolt cutters. I have seen some emergency locks, with shackles designed to shatter if hit with a hammer, but doing so isn't likely to electrocute someone or drown them in a tank of jet fuel.
It is not required al that is required is you use the lock your work place provides
What kind of lock is this??
These two locks are just "keep-out" signs. Literally, that's their intention.
lpl the abus 74/40 loto can you feature that lock? The key way is brutal very paracentric , managed to rake open a few but not spp the key way featured in this video appears much more wide open Thanks for all the great videos!!