I would really like to see Baume et Mercier back again. They have a great history and made beautiful watches. The recent Clifton Baumatic is very nice and you can find it new for a reasonable price. I hope this model won't be the only good thing they did in these years.
mena seven You‘re probably right, it‘s kind of a modernised interpretation. What I wanted to say was that both brands are high-tech and they get a really strong hype for some years:)
Franck Muller and Richard Mille; even IF I could afford them I'd just have to pass. Too blingy, too garish, and ridiculously expensive. There are sooo many other choice time pieces at this price point which are more pleasing to the eye and not so desperate to shout out; "Hey look at me, I need the attention." Elegance and precision engineered trumps loud and attention seeking every time. IMHO.
I actually like the Baume & Mercier Clifton Collection. I also don‘t think that longines quality is mich better than B&M‘s (Hydroconquest anyone ?). Keep up the Great Content Fed, been enjoying since forever!
The B&M Clifton is a great watch and very comfortable on the wrist. I just sold mine to help purchase a Glashutte Original which I love but the B&M was more comfortable.
Rory Carter seriously! There are so many brands with so much marketing presence and storefronts but I've never seen anyone wear one in person. But someone must be buying them!
@Lee’s Ollie and if that's the case, why would they buy eterna, ebel, etc.? Interesting question to ponder. Ex. I have never seen a Eberhard in a hodinkee collection review and it's guests are generally wealthy.
The brand which seems moribund and which I will miss hugely is Eterna. Eterna have a heritage most other watchmakers would die for and made an enormous contribution to the art and science of time keeping. A few years ago they developed an excellent new modular in-house movement but now all their watches seem to have reverted to Selling, ETA and Soprod movements and the watches are available at huge discounts and disappearing from their former AD network. Sad.
I was very surprised by your selections-especially the Panerai, IWC & Baume et Mércier ... not disagreeing, but surprised and interested. Take care, Bill
As a long-time IWC Collector...I agree with you 100%. Nothing they have made has interested me in the last 5 years - with the exception of a Portuguese variant. The Pilots line has gotten really disgusting with green dials, red dials, bronze cases....just seems like they’re late to short term trends, and by the time they release a trendy design theme, that trend has faded.
Fed, I think this one of the best videos you have released in a while, particularly on the Frank Muller issue, they simply ripped their customers off, but they are not to blame. unfortunately the world is full of uneducated consumers.
Hi Federico! Hope you are doing well! I agree with what you just said about each brand and i am gonna develop a bit more for IWC. Yes there is tons of pilot watches but a part from that the brand is actually doing pretty well! The jubilee collection sold at premiums for most of them on 2nd hand market. Limited edition are usually sold out within few weeks ( especially in 2019 with pilots collection ) and now they are coming back with strong pieces new movements and not crazy prices from older movements compare to new in house. Thats just my opinion at the end of the day. Wishing you a lovely day ahead!
Panerai and IWC are still pretty popular in Asia. B&M, Franck Muller, Ebel and Concord are kinda irrevelant. Even historically significant brands like Zenith and Girard Perregaux are not popular in Asia at all. Demands for certain brands are different in every part of the globe. They are not necessarily dying but just doing enough to sustain.
Couldn't agree more. These youtubers should have a broader more global perspective on their topic of discussion. Where their knowledge lack the reach, they could simply specify their claim and say something like "in Northern American, something something is dead". Panerai and IWC boutiques are still packed in Asia.
I have IWC ref. 2009 in platinum with JLC movement 1852. This is a real IWC with no BS! Absolutely gorgeous and classy. If the brand carried over this type of production, they would be doing much better now.
Federico, regarding Concord, I wish you would have mentioned a special Concord few speak about, namely the chrono utilizing the Zenith El Primero movement (allegedly the first automatic chrono movement, highly regarded). It had basically the same movement as Rolex used for the venerable DAYTONA, before Rolex switched to manufacture movement. These were terrific buys when you could find them. Keep up the good work.
To be fair Panerai has only cut costs on their lower end models. Their higher end pieces are incredible and definitely don't have snap-on casebacks. They feel amazing in your hand and honestly feel a lot better than modern day IWCs in the same price range. I can't hate Panerai no matter how 'dead' the brand may be, they're too gorgeous not to love.
The 38mm Due would have been very appealing to me, the fact that they caught costs on it, offering almost now waterproofing really left me with a bad taste in my mouth for the brand when they could have had me as a new buyer. Not sure how much they saved by going that route but in my opinion it wasn't worth it.
DEXVD the Due is a woman’s watch and not really representative of the Panerai DNA. As I said, their upper end Iconic pieces are solid and no corners are cut on them. If you’re going to buy a Panerai because you love Panerai I’d stay far away from the Due line.
@@1pauld funny to think a watch larger than a Datejust or Daydate, 2mm smaller than a GMT or Submariner has to be a women's specific watch. I personally haven't had the chance to try 40 or 42mm Panerais on wrist but felt the 38mm would wear comfortably. Unfortunately a Tudor Blackbay 36 exceeds it in all measures for about 1/3 the price.
Paul D to be fair I do understand the appeal of the Due line. I’m not at all happy with the 30m water resistance, but the thinner and smaller case does appeal to a lot of people. You want a Panerai without the heft? Get the Due. Deep Diving in the Mariana Trench-esque depths of your desk? Get the Due. Want to wear a Panerai but don’t have a wrist the size of your ankle? Get the Due 🤷🏻♂️ Jokes aside it’s just a good looking watch, has a 3 day power reserve and a great deal especially if you can snag one for 4-5k USD which is very much possible in today’s market. Though my personal favourite of their lineup is the 8 days GMT with a blue dial. Sadly too expensive for me.
@@Milofchg I just feel that if a $500 Hamilton or a solid gold Daydate can both be 100m water resistant, the Due could have been also. I've had watches with 100m water resistance take on water (my fault for not having a recent enough service) but have no interest in a modern watch that you can't wear while washing your hands, if I want that level of delicate I will wear something vintage from my collection.
I was afraid you were going to mention B&M. The Capeland chronograph you showed was my first grail watch (With black dial) and is one of my favorites. I love this watch! At least I got a good good deal it. One of the reasons I bought it was because you said they were a great buy, and you were right.
I too have admired Panerai for a long time and got a PAM 392 in 2013 and still love it. But I do agree that when a brand decides that their timepieces are more valuable than their market believes, trouble is brewing.
Panerai has brought down pricing and increased offerings of in-house movements and such. But it may have been too late--they're not the flavor of the month brand as they once were, so a comeback will be tough. I actually have more respect for Panerai's current offerings than IWC. IWC pricing is outrageous. Beautiful watches but just too much money for whats on offer (near 6000 for an ETA movement on the Pilot Chrono).
So glad you mentioned Ebel. I bought a Voyager in 2007 and only recently fell in love with it again. Very well made, beautiful globe dial and interesting case shape.
I bought my IWC in ‘16. I also have a few other brands of pilot watches. I love the simple pilot watch face. I have two Baume et Mercier Hampton’s that I bought about ten years ago. I still wear them and love the look of them.
In Belgium B&M still seems to do ok, a lot of nice boutiques still sell them. I own 2 of them and don't regret it at all. Amazing price/quality! I also don't understand why they're not doing well internationally...
Sir, I really enjoy your videos, you bring a great deal of knowledge about watches and the industry to the table. May I suggest something though. When you say let me be honest with you the listeners subconscious is saying what have you been saying to me already. By saying let me be frank with you, the listener says I'm getting his frank opinion. Keep up the great work. Lance
Well...., I just bought a Panerai for the movement 😄 PAM00619 Radiomir 1940 with the P4000 micro-rotor. Slim and light in titanium, and fits my 7.5" wrist perfectly. My first Panerai and loving it! 🤩
Totally agree on IWC. As a pilot, it's a brand that has always piqued my interest. But then I can't figure out which one to buy and I don't want the Little Prince on the back of my watch. And, in the end, the best pilot's watch I've found is a 16570 Explorer II. Because, yes, pilots need to know GMT.
Thanks great video. I think though that IWC is coming back quite nicely with their perpetual and annual calendars. But I agree that their offering is too broad. Panerai though seems quite stable preowned. I don’t see them tanking much. By the way, never liked the brand much, but bought a PAM0380 last week. And I love wearing it. Go figure...
I've been looking at Panerai on the preowned market for some years now and most models haven't budged on price. Seem to be holding very well. Which is bad for me because I keep waiting for them to come down before I can buy one lol.
@@2005JoinDate yes that's why Panerai isn't dying, their preowned prices have been stable, it's just that 10-15 yrs ago some models were overpriced. Any preowned panerai with reasonable prices usually get sold pretty quickly.
B&M and IWC got into trouble when their prices went up. They can still be saved. Lower the price tag. Why would I pay for a B&M when I can get a Tudor for a similar price???
well said, same with IWC lots of other brands making pilots watches for less money that look just as good and are historically significant as well like Laco and stowa. Hard to justify the price for alot of people.
I liked the passion in this vid. I saw an ad on a local buy and sell site here in Montreal today that had an Ebel 1911 discovery chronograph for 1600 cad. I wonder if the guy saw this video and is trying to dump it lol. It's a nice looking watch, maybe I'll make him an offer. Watch collecting seems to all about image these days and frankly all the reviewers and social media pages seem to put most of the emphasis on the usual suspects. There is nothing more absurd than wearing a really expensive watch and being a person who lives paycheck to paycheck. That being said I am saving up for some very expensive watches to wear in my small apartment lolol
Fed- what's your take on Fortis? Love the brands watches, heritage, and value. Stayed independent too long and failed BK but still making gorgeous watches...
Well Fred, the chickens are coming home to roost, you well know that watches right the way across the board have been massively overpriced well above what they are really worth and for years excess 'loose' cash from all kind of "dodgy" enterprises has been laundered through overpriced real estate, cars, antiques, paintings and luxury watches to mention a few. The now pandemic radiating from China has caused people to take a pause and as one of my Vietnamese mate's says 'Leseewhahappen'. I do own an IWC Mk XV myself and when I purchased it I was given an IWC catalogue and I must admit even then I thought buyers where spoiled for choice! Keep on keeping on and good luck and good health.
One of the many problems watch makers face is Seiko, its a company that has history, value and if you want high end they give you Grand Seiko. Thier range goes from utilitarian to plain economic to sports to luxury, mechanical, automatic, solar and quartz. All made in house. I have quite a wide collection of watches from quirky to appealing but the Seiko is what I wear daily and a different Seiko for rugged outdoor pursuits. I have over years become a bit of a begrudging fan of Seiko as traditionaly the Swiss have been the go to place but I have to admit I have lost faith in the brands they are offering.
Another one that might be heading that way is Bell and Ross. They are another one trick pony in their design, now they are trying to diversify their design, but it might be too late, and their pricing is too high for their brand equity. I hope they survive, some of their watches are nice.
In my humble opinion, I like Baume & Mercies but they need do make a few watchea that are smaller than 40-42mm, also make them thinner and a little less expensive. They really should target the entry luxury buyer. They might wanna get a few of these newer watches into a few reviewers hands to spread the message about their products. It's really too bad, I like the brand. They have some handsome watches but they are simply too big and thick.
When you mentioned B&M I had a flashback to my childhood in the 90s. Completely forgot about them as a brand until you said their name out loud. This scenario is probably exactly what you’re talking about with Concord. People will forget a brand if it doesn’t innovate.
Some great points there, and its only going to get worse in the current situation. Give it a few months and we might see Omega prices being wound back, especially for the new stupidly priced speedmaster. The Rolex secondary market has already loosened. I think it will take several years for prices to recover to the current prices.
Of all the brands mentioned I like the look of Baume and Mercier or IWC the best. Panerai makes those....unfortunate looking Luminors. I literally had never heard of Concorde until this video.
I used to own the Capeland flybacks, one of the most beautiful dials. I hate they struggle so much! In the forums, I can get these beautiful watches for $2,500. Great value!
I’m surprised to hear that IWC is suffering in the USA.A friend of mine works for them and says sale are going well in Europe and Africa.Awesome watches and I now own 3 of them all purchased second hand though👍
A local Dealer told me B&M had pretty bad quality control issues about 10 years ago, lots and lots of return on sold watches, to the point where he was considering dumping the brand. If true, and I have no reason to doubt his words, it might explain why the brand falling out of favor.
Hello federico , italian here, big panerai fan. I agree with you, but i'd like your opinion on the pam915. It seems like they are at least trying to listen a bit to what the fans want with this last release and go back to what made the brand glorious. Do you think they will keep going in this way?
Got to disagree with IWC, because just last year they opened a new manufacturing centre. They are going in house in all their watches. That's how I see happening.
Fed, thanks for the content. Don’t know as much as you, but disagree with IWC here. Their grey market discounts are not crazy and are comparable with Omega and other big swatch/richemont brands. Check the pct off on the Portuguese and compare to dress Omegas or JLC. Nothing out of line for IWC.
@@Drakewyrm Thanks for sharing your views. I am in the U.S. and was surprised by Fed's views on IWC. Hodinkee, which only sells one LE model from IWC, recently came out noting that they are in a strong position (whatever that means). I also thought they have had strong offerings in the last couple of years and have been upgrading their movements while keeping prices stable. Let's hope Fed is reading and shares his take on this. Cheers.
Thanks Fed. You are telling it like it is which is one of the reasons I watch your channel. You don't mind saying something that might be perceived negatively by the watch companies.
Follow him on Instagram and turn on notifications for his posts. He’ll post a q&a pic every so often but you have to be quick because he removes the post after a certain amount of time.
Make that „every Richemont watch maker“ and you’re closer to the truth. And I agree: Pricing yourself out of your core clientele's reach is probably never a good idea.
@ProudNationalist Revolt Depends on the watch, the profit margins can be quite small especially on the cheaper ones. The Swiss quality can be good depending on the watch. Generally it isn't going to be useless garbage.
Well not really in terms of Rolex and certain Omega, many are traded on second hand market above retail. It's a fine line between success and disaster. And no one are capable of predicting the future fashion. Regarding Rolex it has a lot to do with the name and the logo, asians love the crown and power of the name, a proper status symbol. A bit like why MacDonalds are so succesfull as the "M" in MacDonalds makes a brilliant logo and a brand name to remember. That Rolex also is not a limited company but a trust which is sorrounded by secrecy, that the "shareholders" are not there to disturb the direction of the company surely help a lot.
Really interesting to hear about these older brands and a great history lesson as well. I’m sure there are many contemporary brands that need to take note of the lessons history is teaching them about.
The problem with most watch companies is they charge way too much for the majority of the people working today. They also aren’t updating their marketing schemes.
You gotta remember, people back then wanted in-house movements, and they had chide brands for not having their own movements. Now these brands made their own movements, now you say they are no good because of that. I think Panerai is still good, if not even better than early times.
Hi Federico, I definitely understand your point with FM brand. Since you mention their massive markup, how do you feel about Richard Mille and Jacob and Co watch companies? Both owners are master marketers and designers. I don’t believe either owners were watchmakers per say like Franck Muller. I could be wrong. At price averages of $200,000 ++++ I just don’t see the value. Do you think both companies could suffer the same consequence as FM. By choosing to sell low quantities and to specific famous clientele they have been very successful. I know the market and demand determines price but I can’t imagine what the markup on those watches could be and can those prices last? Would like your honest thoughts about those companies. Oh, btw. Your blue FPJ is amazing! Now that is a watchmaker👍
I couldn't care less about those brands especially Panerai but I do have a soft spot for baume mercier. I just couldn't resist getting their capeland and a clifton model they are so pretty on the wrist when I wear my suit to work.
Baume & Mercier makes some stunning pieces and are really well made... there inhouse movements are above some high end luxury brands out there and there finishing is great as well. I foresee a major comeback from B&M after almost 200 years in the industry! I would never buy any watch brand new but the B&M watches with 120 hour power reserve are very well priced in stores.
I too, think FM has some really great looking watches but there really doesn't seem to be much point in buying it at retail price. Hope they come around to senses and either actually start building complicated watches or bring their prices down to amiable levels. Sad to see Longines on this list, not sure what they're thinking at Swatch but I hope they can turn it around. Longines, Mido, Rado all seem to be stuck in this weird space of not cheap enough to be starter luxury watches but not enticing enough for mid-level luxury.
What makes art, art? The ability to transcend the value of a sum of parts and an ability to gain value of intangibles. Part of what creates intangible value is a form of searching perfection... Also, stories behind origins of things. The drama of "is it or isn't it?" is what makes Panerai, as a brand, artistic (at least in my books). In some ways same as with Rolex.
I think IWC would do a lot better if they really put an effort with their casebacks. IMO the modern watch buyer really looks for an interesting engraving or a see through case back when buying a watch. Rolex is the exception because they’re Rolex. And with vintage, boring casebacks are expected since they were never meant to be luxury products
Do you really think that interesting casebacks sell watches? I couldn't care less what the back of the watch looks like, and I don't think people are going to be more likely to buy an IWC because they like the back which is only visible when you aren't wearing it.
I'm curious, what would you like to see from them exactly? I hear this often, however, there's only so much to be done before people complain it has strayed too far from what makes IWC recognizable. I'm genuinely curious what sort of innovation you would actually enjoy from them? This is not shade throwing, btw. This is a worthwhile conversation IMO.
@@WatchUnwind yet the same could be said about Rolex watches, which are relatively unchanged each year save for some choice color schemes or the occasional shift between Oyster and Jubilee bracelets. AP supposedly spent 8 yrs trying to innovate the next big thing to help them go beyond the Royal Oak image...how did the Code 11.59 end up working for them again? I'm not disagreeing that there isn't a "seen 1 seen them" all issue with IWC, Panerai (especially Panerai) and even Rolex, but again, what exactly would be accepted by collectors who associate these brands with that very same unchanged image? Omega has so much variety, unfortunately it's to a fault and everything is LE this and LE that. My point is, its "Lazy" to call a brand "Lazy" without offering insight into what would actually be a worthwhile change to their lineup. Without such feedback, how can we as collectors ever expect anything to change?
@@Whiskey_Tengu that is a good argument and you make a strong point. It has to be super stressful to manage a luxury watch brand if you stay true to your roots people might complain and if you try to innovate people might complain. And if you make the wrong choice it could cost your brand millions of dollars.
@@Drakewyrm absolutley Zenith is a great example of this topic. Also...dammit, you remind me that despite this issue on their end I would still like me a 1/10th El Primero in my collection at some point.
What do you think about Breguet? Very popular brand in Europe for over 2 century, mentioned in famous literary works of early 1800s but I don’t think anyone in the USA is aware of it per se?
IWC was big in the 90's and early and 2000's. I think Tom Cruise's watch as Vincent the hitman in the movie Collateral was an IWC. I can't remember that reference. Also HYT and Richard Mille have upstaged Frank Muller.
yeah Panerai is definitely not dying they still have iconic designs, the new submersible bronzo was immediately sold out and as long as the price is not too high, they are sold pretty quickly in the secondary market.
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I would really like to see Baume et Mercier back again. They have a great history and made beautiful watches. The recent Clifton Baumatic is very nice and you can find it new for a reasonable price. I hope this model won't be the only good thing they did in these years.
Franck Muller, the Richard Mille of the 2000‘s😉
It would be so nice if Richard Mille went the same way. ;-)
true I think Richard Mille copied FM.
mena seven You‘re probably right, it‘s kind of a modernised interpretation. What I wanted to say was that both brands are high-tech and they get a really strong hype for some years:)
For real though! I feel bad for the guys who are buying them at 1000000 % margin!
Franck Muller and Richard Mille; even IF I could afford them I'd just have to pass. Too blingy, too garish, and ridiculously expensive. There are sooo many other choice time pieces at this price point which are more pleasing to the eye and not so desperate to shout out; "Hey look at me, I need the attention." Elegance and precision engineered trumps loud and attention seeking every time. IMHO.
This guy is definitely a watch guru! One of the very best, if not the best, on RUclips.
Great episode. Fact based with a good dose of your personal opinion! Keep up the good work, Federico!
The Baume & Mercier Clifton Baumatic is a really Stunning Beauty of a timepiece
I actually like the Baume & Mercier Clifton Collection. I also don‘t think that longines quality is mich better than B&M‘s (Hydroconquest anyone ?). Keep up the Great Content Fed, been enjoying since forever!
The B&M Clifton is a great watch and very comfortable on the wrist. I just sold mine to help purchase a Glashutte Original which I love but the B&M was more comfortable.
I'm always surprised the market is big enough to support the number of brands involved.
Rory Carter seriously! There are so many brands with so much marketing presence and storefronts but I've never seen anyone wear one in person. But someone must be buying them!
@@gyang333 it's too bad many are private. I'd love to look at the financials.
because fools like me buy 10 watches
@Lee’s Ollie and if that's the case, why would they buy eterna, ebel, etc.? Interesting question to ponder. Ex. I have never seen a Eberhard in a hodinkee collection review and it's guests are generally wealthy.
@@gyang333 man I have wondered that my self, its pretty rare to come across some of these brands out in the wild
The brand which seems moribund and which I will miss hugely is Eterna. Eterna have a heritage most other watchmakers would die for and made an enormous contribution to the art and science of time keeping. A few years ago they developed an excellent new modular in-house movement but now all their watches seem to have reverted to Selling, ETA and Soprod movements and the watches are available at huge discounts and disappearing from their former AD network. Sad.
I was very surprised by your selections-especially the Panerai, IWC & Baume et Mércier ... not disagreeing, but surprised and interested. Take care, Bill
As a long-time IWC Collector...I agree with you 100%. Nothing they have made has interested me in the last 5 years - with the exception of a Portuguese variant. The Pilots line has gotten really disgusting with green dials, red dials, bronze cases....just seems like they’re late to short term trends, and by the time they release a trendy design theme, that trend has faded.
Fed, I think this one of the best videos you have released in a while, particularly on the Frank Muller issue, they simply ripped their customers off, but they are not to blame. unfortunately the world is full of uneducated consumers.
Hi Federico! Hope you are doing well! I agree with what you just said about each brand and i am gonna develop a bit more for IWC. Yes there is tons of pilot watches but a part from that the brand is actually doing pretty well! The jubilee collection sold at premiums for most of them on 2nd hand market. Limited edition are usually sold out within few weeks ( especially in 2019 with pilots collection ) and now they are coming back with strong pieces new movements and not crazy prices from older movements compare to new in house. Thats just my opinion at the end of the day.
Wishing you a lovely day ahead!
Mr GOODLIFE agree. Discounts on grey market are generally less than, say, omega or other big comparable brands.
Love some of the new Panerai. Check out the 995 or the 1039. Pricy yes, but not cheap build quality and extreme attention to detail
Panerai and IWC are still pretty popular in Asia. B&M, Franck Muller, Ebel and Concord are kinda irrevelant. Even historically significant brands like Zenith and Girard Perregaux are not popular in Asia at all. Demands for certain brands are different in every part of the globe. They are not necessarily dying but just doing enough to sustain.
Couldn't agree more. These youtubers should have a broader more global perspective on their topic of discussion. Where their knowledge lack the reach, they could simply specify their claim and say something like "in Northern American, something something is dead". Panerai and IWC boutiques are still packed in Asia.
I have IWC ref. 2009 in platinum with JLC movement 1852. This is a real IWC with no BS! Absolutely gorgeous and classy. If the brand carried over this type of production, they would be doing much better now.
Federico, regarding Concord, I wish you would have mentioned a special Concord few speak about, namely the chrono utilizing the Zenith El Primero movement (allegedly the first automatic chrono movement, highly regarded). It had basically the same movement as Rolex used for the venerable DAYTONA, before Rolex switched to manufacture movement. These were terrific buys when you could find them.
Keep up the good work.
To be fair Panerai has only cut costs on their lower end models. Their higher end pieces are incredible and definitely don't have snap-on casebacks. They feel amazing in your hand and honestly feel a lot better than modern day IWCs in the same price range. I can't hate Panerai no matter how 'dead' the brand may be, they're too gorgeous not to love.
The 38mm Due would have been very appealing to me, the fact that they caught costs on it, offering almost now waterproofing really left me with a bad taste in my mouth for the brand when they could have had me as a new buyer. Not sure how much they saved by going that route but in my opinion it wasn't worth it.
DEXVD the Due is a woman’s watch and not really representative of the Panerai DNA. As I said, their upper end Iconic pieces are solid and no corners are cut on them. If you’re going to buy a Panerai because you love Panerai I’d stay far away from the Due line.
@@1pauld funny to think a watch larger than a Datejust or Daydate, 2mm smaller than a GMT or Submariner has to be a women's specific watch. I personally haven't had the chance to try 40 or 42mm Panerais on wrist but felt the 38mm would wear comfortably. Unfortunately a Tudor Blackbay 36 exceeds it in all measures for about 1/3 the price.
Paul D to be fair I do understand the appeal of the Due line. I’m not at all happy with the 30m water resistance, but the thinner and smaller case does appeal to a lot of people. You want a Panerai without the heft? Get the Due. Deep Diving in the Mariana Trench-esque depths of your desk? Get the Due. Want to wear a Panerai but don’t have a wrist the size of your ankle? Get the Due 🤷🏻♂️
Jokes aside it’s just a good looking watch, has a 3 day power reserve and a great deal especially if you can snag one for 4-5k USD which is very much possible in today’s market. Though my personal favourite of their lineup is the 8 days GMT with a blue dial. Sadly too expensive for me.
@@Milofchg I just feel that if a $500 Hamilton or a solid gold Daydate can both be 100m water resistant, the Due could have been also. I've had watches with 100m water resistance take on water (my fault for not having a recent enough service) but have no interest in a modern watch that you can't wear while washing your hands, if I want that level of delicate I will wear something vintage from my collection.
Thanks Fed! Great video. I love some of B&M designs too. I hope they stay around.
Baume & Mercier was my first 'luxury' watch and some really are gorgeous designs. Been around a long time with decent history, so hope they survive.
As always, interesting video with excellent content.
Always a pleasure to watch this channel.
I have to say that I love IWC pilot watches...😅
Lou Gran yeah if they are not on your wrist 😂😂😂
I was afraid you were going to mention B&M. The Capeland chronograph you showed was my first grail watch (With black dial) and is one of my favorites. I love this watch! At least I got a good good deal it. One of the reasons I bought it was because you said they were a great buy, and you were right.
I too have admired Panerai for a long time and got a PAM 392 in 2013 and still love it. But I do agree that when a brand decides that their timepieces are more valuable than their market believes, trouble is brewing.
Panerai has brought down pricing and increased offerings of in-house movements and such. But it may have been too late--they're not the flavor of the month brand as they once were, so a comeback will be tough. I actually have more respect for Panerai's current offerings than IWC. IWC pricing is outrageous. Beautiful watches but just too much money for whats on offer (near 6000 for an ETA movement on the Pilot Chrono).
So glad you mentioned Ebel. I bought a Voyager in 2007 and only recently fell in love with it again. Very well made, beautiful globe dial and interesting case shape.
Cool episode, thanks for the knowledge. It’s absurd the amount these companies are still trying to sell their pieces for.
I bought my IWC in ‘16. I also have a few other brands of pilot watches.
I love the simple pilot watch face.
I have two Baume et Mercier Hampton’s that I bought about ten years ago.
I still wear them and love the look of them.
In Belgium B&M still seems to do ok, a lot of nice boutiques still sell them. I own 2 of them and don't regret it at all. Amazing price/quality! I also don't understand why they're not doing well internationally...
B&M....that hurt a lot..they have such beautiful designs.
I think baume is failing because their sizing is off, too large for the more formal designs they offer. Great video! Hope IWC makes a comeback…
I agree about Baum & Mercier. The Baumatic is a first rate watch, and I don’t understand why they haven’t caught on.
Defenstrator The Baumatic is kind of ugly and kind of a dumb name.
This Vid is nothing short of excellent! Your analysis is right on.
Sir, I really enjoy your videos, you bring a great deal of knowledge about watches and the industry to the table. May I suggest something though. When you say let me be honest with you the listeners subconscious is saying what have you been saying to me already. By saying let me be frank with you, the listener says I'm getting his frank opinion. Keep up the great work. Lance
Well...., I just bought a Panerai for the movement 😄
PAM00619 Radiomir 1940 with the P4000 micro-rotor. Slim and light in titanium, and fits my 7.5" wrist perfectly. My first Panerai and loving it! 🤩
David B SG micro rotors r beautiful!
Fantastic choice. I have two Radiomirs and think they are highly under rated. Love the P4000 movement. Congratulations
Totally agree on IWC. As a pilot, it's a brand that has always piqued my interest. But then I can't figure out which one to buy and I don't want the Little Prince on the back of my watch. And, in the end, the best pilot's watch I've found is a 16570 Explorer II. Because, yes, pilots need to know GMT.
This was a good video. I have three panerai’s and an IWC. I like them very much, but I enjoyed this video.
Id never heard of Baume & Mercier before, i like the look of that watch.
Thanks great video. I think though that IWC is coming back quite nicely with their perpetual and annual calendars. But I agree that their offering is too broad. Panerai though seems quite stable preowned. I don’t see them tanking much. By the way, never liked the brand much, but bought a PAM0380 last week. And I love wearing it. Go figure...
I've been looking at Panerai on the preowned market for some years now and most models haven't budged on price. Seem to be holding very well. Which is bad for me because I keep waiting for them to come down before I can buy one lol.
Ralf Peppekus PAM380 is a cool watch. Congrats. Wear it in good health!
@@2005JoinDate yes that's why Panerai isn't dying, their preowned prices have been stable, it's just that 10-15 yrs ago some models were overpriced. Any preowned panerai with reasonable prices usually get sold pretty quickly.
This is the first video that I watched on your channel and I loved it. Great job sir!
Fed spitting facts
Why thank you Noah
@@FedericoTalksWatches keep up the great content buddy
I dig Fed’s honesty. Keep up the good work!
B&M and IWC got into trouble when their prices went up. They can still be saved. Lower the price tag. Why would I pay for a B&M when I can get a Tudor for a similar price???
IWC will be fine. They make very nice watches. My friend got a grand complication for 35k recently. The things got a damn minute repeater!
That's true but then again... Why would I pay for a Tudor if I can save a bit and get a Rolex?!
Eh, people that get Tudor watches are those who can't wait for a Rolex or save a bit for one.
well said, same with IWC lots of other brands making pilots watches for less money that look just as good and are historically significant as well like Laco and stowa. Hard to justify the price for alot of people.
I want a Sinn.
I liked the passion in this vid. I saw an ad on a local buy and sell site here in Montreal today that had an Ebel 1911 discovery chronograph for 1600 cad. I wonder if the guy saw this video and is trying to dump it lol. It's a nice looking watch, maybe I'll make him an offer. Watch collecting seems to all about image these days and frankly all the reviewers and social media pages seem to put most of the emphasis on the usual suspects. There is nothing more absurd than wearing a really expensive watch and being a person who lives paycheck to paycheck. That being said I am saving up for some very expensive watches to wear in my small apartment lolol
Bronco119 LoL were the same, hahaha. I just want a Tudor Black Bay.
Fed- what's your take on Fortis? Love the brands watches, heritage, and value. Stayed independent too long and failed BK but still making gorgeous watches...
Panerai are also too big and they all look 👀 the same!!
Yes. Yes. Yes. Panerai are hideously ugly and their history is “meh” at best. Let’s not forget about their scandal a few years back.
@@JeezyLT7599 what was the scandal?
Get me a Panerai at 60% discount and I'm all over it. Of all you listed I'll miss that one the most.
Well Fred, the chickens are coming home to roost, you well know that watches right the way across the board have been massively overpriced well above what they are really worth and for years excess 'loose' cash from all kind of "dodgy" enterprises has been laundered through overpriced real estate, cars, antiques, paintings and luxury watches to mention a few. The now pandemic radiating from China has caused people to take a pause and as one of my Vietnamese mate's says 'Leseewhahappen'. I do own an IWC Mk XV myself and when I purchased it I was given an IWC catalogue and I must admit even then I thought buyers where spoiled for choice! Keep on keeping on and good luck and good health.
One of the many problems watch makers face is Seiko, its a company that has history, value and if you want high end they give you Grand Seiko. Thier range goes from utilitarian to plain economic to sports to luxury, mechanical, automatic, solar and quartz. All made in house. I have quite a wide collection of watches from quirky to appealing but the Seiko is what I wear daily and a different Seiko for rugged outdoor pursuits. I have over years become a bit of a begrudging fan of Seiko as traditionaly the Swiss have been the go to place but I have to admit I have lost faith in the brands they are offering.
They did a Toyota Lexus thingy to the watch industry
Another one that might be heading that way is Bell and Ross. They are another one trick pony in their design, now they are trying to diversify their design, but it might be too late, and their pricing is too high for their brand equity. I hope they survive, some of their watches are nice.
I've got an old Franck Muller from 2006 it's still telling perfect time and I like it!!
I just reviewed a vanguard yachting ill be adding to my brand new channel its a really great looking watch and i wanted to keep it lol
In my humble opinion, I like Baume & Mercies but they need do make a few watchea that are smaller than 40-42mm, also make them thinner and a little less expensive. They really should target the entry luxury buyer. They might wanna get a few of these newer watches into a few reviewers hands to spread the message about their products. It's really too bad, I like the brand. They have some handsome watches but they are simply too big and thick.
When you mentioned B&M I had a flashback to my childhood in the 90s. Completely forgot about them as a brand until you said their name out loud. This scenario is probably exactly what you’re talking about with Concord. People will forget a brand if it doesn’t innovate.
Some great points there, and its only going to get worse in the current situation. Give it a few months and we might see Omega prices being wound back, especially for the new stupidly priced speedmaster. The Rolex secondary market has already loosened. I think it will take several years for prices to recover to the current prices.
I agree, I believe the prices increased totally out of control and once the hype cools down it will bite hard, very hard…
Thanks for your insights Fed, it's always nice to get the big picture from a professional.
Of all the brands mentioned I like the look of Baume and Mercier or IWC the best. Panerai makes those....unfortunate looking Luminors. I literally had never heard of Concorde until this video.
I used to own the Capeland flybacks, one of the most beautiful dials. I hate they struggle so much! In the forums, I can get these beautiful watches for $2,500. Great value!
Nice job Fed. I too like Panerai but very disappointing with how they screw their customers. Won’t touch them no matter how cheap they get. Principle.
Great video fed! Informative.
I’m surprised to hear that IWC is suffering in the USA.A friend of mine works for them and says sale are going well in Europe and Africa.Awesome watches and I now own 3 of them all purchased second hand though👍
B&M's Clifton Baumatic Chronomter is actully a really darn nice looking watch... especially the white dial version...
A local Dealer told me B&M had pretty bad quality control issues about 10 years ago, lots and lots of return on sold watches, to the point where he was considering dumping the brand. If true, and I have no reason to doubt his words, it might explain why the brand falling out of favor.
Hello federico , italian here, big panerai fan. I agree with you, but i'd like your opinion on the pam915. It seems like they are at least trying to listen a bit to what the fans want with this last release and go back to what made the brand glorious. Do you think they will keep going in this way?
Got to disagree with IWC, because just last year they opened a new manufacturing centre. They are going in house in all their watches. That's how I see happening.
Fed, thanks for the content. Don’t know as much as you, but disagree with IWC here. Their grey market discounts are not crazy and are comparable with Omega and other big swatch/richemont brands. Check the pct off on the Portuguese and compare to dress Omegas or JLC. Nothing out of line for IWC.
@@Drakewyrm Thanks for sharing your views. I am in the U.S. and was surprised by Fed's views on IWC. Hodinkee, which only sells one LE model from IWC, recently came out noting that they are in a strong position (whatever that means). I also thought they have had strong offerings in the last couple of years and have been upgrading their movements while keeping prices stable. Let's hope Fed is reading and shares his take on this. Cheers.
Thanks Fed. You are telling it like it is which is one of the reasons I watch your channel. You don't mind saying something that might be perceived negatively by the watch companies.
Very true on Panerai, as a paneristi myself, havent buy any new Panerai for years.
Hey Federico enjoy your channel and your approach and honesty with your viewers. Just wanted to ask how I submit a question for your Q&A?
Follow him on Instagram and turn on notifications for his posts. He’ll post a q&a pic every so often but you have to be quick because he removes the post after a certain amount of time.
Thanks Damian!
Basically over pricing watches is killing the brand??? So every Swiss watch makers are scamming their customers...
Make that „every Richemont watch maker“ and you’re closer to the truth. And I agree: Pricing yourself out of your core clientele's reach is probably never a good idea.
@ProudNationalist Revolt Depends on the watch, the profit margins can be quite small especially on the cheaper ones. The Swiss quality can be good depending on the watch. Generally it isn't going to be useless garbage.
Well not really in terms of Rolex and certain Omega, many are traded on second hand market above retail. It's a fine line between success and disaster. And no one are capable of predicting the future fashion. Regarding Rolex it has a lot to do with the name and the logo, asians love the crown and power of the name, a proper status symbol. A bit like why MacDonalds are so succesfull as the "M" in MacDonalds makes a brilliant logo and a brand name to remember. That Rolex also is not a limited company but a trust which is sorrounded by secrecy, that the "shareholders" are not there to disturb the direction of the company surely help a lot.
I just bought a IWC last week 😄
Really interesting to hear about these older brands and a great history lesson as well. I’m sure there are many contemporary brands that need to take note of the lessons history is teaching them about.
Agree with Paul D about Panerai, they are Gorgeous watches 👍😉
cant deny that
The problem with most watch companies is they charge way too much for the majority of the people working today. They also aren’t updating their marketing schemes.
I think at least Baume & Mercier is on a way to make a little comeback
i could see that
Awesome vid! I'm glad I don't own any of those listed... not that I was not considering!
Helpful advice.
Great marketing! All six brands (even Concord) in stock.
Lol
You know Federico is smooth like that, don't hate lol
You gotta remember, people back then wanted in-house movements, and they had chide brands for not having their own movements. Now these brands made their own movements, now you say they are no good because of that. I think Panerai is still good, if not even better than early times.
Iwc the first expensive I own still loved it.. Had a tag hauer before that I think tag is dead as well...
Great content! Precise and full of value added as always. Thanks man. Appreciate it. I’m looking for my first luxury watch rn.
Hi Federico, I definitely understand your point with FM brand. Since you mention their massive markup, how do you feel about Richard Mille and Jacob and Co watch companies? Both owners are master marketers and designers. I don’t believe either owners were watchmakers per say like Franck Muller. I could be wrong. At price averages of $200,000 ++++ I just don’t see the value. Do you think both companies could suffer the same consequence as FM. By choosing to sell low quantities and to specific famous clientele they have been very successful. I know the market and demand determines price but I can’t imagine what the markup on those watches could be and can those prices last? Would like your honest thoughts about those companies. Oh, btw. Your blue FPJ is amazing! Now that is a watchmaker👍
I have a Baume & Marcier which I enjoy and have an IWC Pilot on the wish list. The rest can go away.
I couldn't care less about those brands especially Panerai but I do have a soft spot for baume mercier. I just couldn't resist getting their capeland and a clifton model they are so pretty on the wrist when I wear my suit to work.
Baume & Mercier makes some stunning pieces and are really well made... there inhouse movements are above some high end luxury brands out there and there finishing is great as well. I foresee a major comeback from B&M after almost 200 years in the industry! I would never buy any watch brand new but the B&M watches with 120 hour power reserve are very well priced in stores.
A great view from the man with his finger on the pulse!!
Cheers Ryan
I wish I would've snagged that Ebel chrono but I picked something else up. BTW good video, I appreciate the real talk style and less scripted
Great topic. Can you also cover other brands? We would like to see how other brands doing, from micro to the top. Tx, fed.
I’m sure this list was tough for you but damn if it’s not honest as hell!!! IWC hurts me personally but it’s true, but I think they can make it back!
i hope baume & mercier survives. i really like some of their designs
agreed
I think that for the name and heritage alone that the 'brand name' will survive (perhaps be bought up).
great brand and great value for money, it would be sad to see them go
I wear B & M's Baumatic Riveria everyday and when my friends went to get it from AD, they were put on waiting list. So here, B & M is doing okay
B&M Model A10141 is simply a beautiful timepiece
Spot on but maybe now is the time to buy a Panerai! I just did - titanium though - stainless just too heavy
Cool vid thanks Fed!
I too, think FM has some really great looking watches but there really doesn't seem to be much point in buying it at retail price. Hope they come around to senses and either actually start building complicated watches or bring their prices down to amiable levels.
Sad to see Longines on this list, not sure what they're thinking at Swatch but I hope they can turn it around. Longines, Mido, Rado all seem to be stuck in this weird space of not cheap enough to be starter luxury watches but not enticing enough for mid-level luxury.
minonano Agreed about Longines.
What makes art, art? The ability to transcend the value of a sum of parts and an ability to gain value of intangibles. Part of what creates intangible value is a form of searching perfection... Also, stories behind origins of things. The drama of "is it or isn't it?" is what makes Panerai, as a brand, artistic (at least in my books). In some ways same as with Rolex.
Indipendent.. the new title for Micro Brands!
Enjoyable video Federico agree with Marvin B Clifton nice watches!
I think IWC would do a lot better if they really put an effort with their casebacks. IMO the modern watch buyer really looks for an interesting engraving or a see through case back when buying a watch. Rolex is the exception because they’re Rolex. And with vintage, boring casebacks are expected since they were never meant to be luxury products
Do you really think that interesting casebacks sell watches? I couldn't care less what the back of the watch looks like, and I don't think people are going to be more likely to buy an IWC because they like the back which is only visible when you aren't wearing it.
IWC is simply LAZY, love this band but can’t even tell the design difference between products 20 years ago.
I'm curious, what would you like to see from them exactly? I hear this often, however, there's only so much to be done before people complain it has strayed too far from what makes IWC recognizable.
I'm genuinely curious what sort of innovation you would actually enjoy from them? This is not shade throwing, btw. This is a worthwhile conversation IMO.
I think there watches look good but I agree I to get the seen them one seen them all feel
@@WatchUnwind yet the same could be said about Rolex watches, which are relatively unchanged each year save for some choice color schemes or the occasional shift between Oyster and Jubilee bracelets.
AP supposedly spent 8 yrs trying to innovate the next big thing to help them go beyond the Royal Oak image...how did the Code 11.59 end up working for them again?
I'm not disagreeing that there isn't a "seen 1 seen them" all issue with IWC, Panerai (especially Panerai) and even Rolex, but again, what exactly would be accepted by collectors who associate these brands with that very same unchanged image?
Omega has so much variety, unfortunately it's to a fault and everything is LE this and LE that.
My point is, its "Lazy" to call a brand "Lazy" without offering insight into what would actually be a worthwhile change to their lineup. Without such feedback, how can we as collectors ever expect anything to change?
@@Whiskey_Tengu that is a good argument and you make a strong point. It has to be super stressful to manage a luxury watch brand if you stay true to your roots people might complain and if you try to innovate people might complain. And if you make the wrong choice it could cost your brand millions of dollars.
@@Drakewyrm absolutley Zenith is a great example of this topic. Also...dammit, you remind me that despite this issue on their end I would still like me a 1/10th El Primero in my collection at some point.
Baume & Mercier make beautiful pieces. But styles have changed and it seems like they're not keeping up.
What do you think about Breguet? Very popular brand in Europe for over 2 century, mentioned in famous literary works of early 1800s but I don’t think anyone in the USA is aware of it per se?
Officine Panerai priced out their traditional customer base very quickly with a string of lavish releases towards the late noughties.
IWC was big in the 90's and early and 2000's. I think Tom Cruise's watch as Vincent the hitman in the movie Collateral was an IWC. I can't remember that reference. Also HYT and Richard Mille have upstaged Frank Muller.
Panerai? I don’t think so. What about Maurice Lacroix or Chronoswiss? Or Fortis?
yeah Panerai is definitely not dying they still have iconic designs, the new submersible bronzo was immediately sold out and as long as the price is not too high, they are sold pretty quickly in the secondary market.