I buy watched because I like them , have from Omega to Timex , and I don't care about resale value. I am not a watch dealer, I don't give a shit about keeping the monetary value, I care about how special is every watch to me and to me only !!
Well there is something to be said for a quality watch made from quality parts. But many watches are ridiculously overpriced. People keep buying them because of the hoopla and then they’re scared to wear them because they might scratch or damage them. It’s comical.
I don’t know why people keep saying this. If one is going to put $5,000 or more in a watch, it’s not a bad idea to want it to retain most of its value should one must need to sell it.
Maybe you would be happy with my watch and having it dropped 50% in value but I don’t think you’re speaking for most of us. I want a Watch that I can truly enjoy wearing, looking at, valuing it’s history but I do not want something that is going to annually drop in value
Andrew Lim. Transitional 2000 Automatic? What is that? What model? You got what serviced? What movement? What was done with the watch. $1000 is high for a service. Done by who? Tag? Preety vague description.
You are right about watches being a hobby as opposed to being investments. I could careless about the resale value of these watches and just enjoy them for what they are. If you have to worry about the resale value of your watches, then you should not be buying them in the first place. Buy what you can afford and just enjoy it!
I don't mind at all because I can afford the value loss. So I only buy what I like. I think the greedy people diving into the watch world searching for an investment destroy the fun for the real watch guys who love watches.
Greedy. So if u work 9-5 selling a product others want is "GREEDY" of ofering your IT serveces is "Greedy"? Were does this mentality come from (A.O.C)?
Agree with the overriding thought. Watch collecting is FUN. I'm sure there are people out there that can make a great living as a watch collector. Collecting watches for me is just to appreciate the art and the engineering of watchmaking. Once I've gotten a watch, it's pretty tough to pry it away from me because when I buy a new watch, I REALLY like it...and that's the way I think it will stay. My guess is the only time my watches will sell will be at my estate sale!
You are 100% right about TAG's being an impulse buy. I was once going to buy a tag at the top of Jungfraujoch!! Glad something stopped me from within at the very last moment.
I've been collecting watches for 5 years now, but unfortunately didn't learn some of these principles early enough. I've bought a few watches at retail (TAG and Omega) early on, but similar bought the desirable watches at retail Hulk, Batman, and 5711 later on. I love all my watches and don't look at them as investments. Great content
Unfortunately, you can add Breguet and Zenith Both look better than the Royal Oak and 5711. I collect for passion, not for a few more dollars in the bank.
I just got a Hamilton khaki field automatic and I love it . I know I will lose money on it if I sell it but I don't care. It is a nice everyday watch .
I have a Hamilton field that has been out of production for 10 years in this format, I can get double what I paid for it no questions asked. Condition is key but if you only buy watches after they are out of production you can get them for half what they sold for originally and sell them for what you paid (or batter) a few years later. While this obviously does not apply to fashion watch brands it is not unique to luxury brands like Rolex.
Tag heuer actually has a good resale value. I work in the pawn industry. Listing alot of high end items, tags hold their value quite well. I have a black and and gold formula 1. 1600 new, resale id get 1280. Not a massive hit
It's not the destination, it's the journey. Have enjoyed the buying, trading and selling and the education from same. Great lesson from J.J. at Dallas Watches: "There's a lot of chicanery in the watch business." Know from whom you buy and with whom you trade. Great subject, thanks!
Spending the money to keep a watch properly service kills any return on investment. Buy them for enjoyment, enjoy the good value on the secondary market.
While it's great to have watches that appreciate in value, just focusing on just the potential upside takes the fun out of the hobby. I've met people that hoard Daytonas and Kermit Subs but never wear them just because they would like to get the highest return possible when they sell the watches. I know someone that actually likes JLC and Panerai better than Rolex but chooses to buy only Rolex just because of the resale value and it's just really sad. Besides, if you are just looking for monetary gain there are other investments out there that give a better rate of return than watches if you do your homework.
Tag Heuer pre-owned is a bargain. I am seriously considering buying a pre-owned Grand Carrera Caliber 36. Originally at 8k GBP now resales for just below 4k GBP. And an El Primero movement and original caliper chronograph. What not to like. Only Zenith watches are also dropping in prices as pre-owned. So a rainbow flyback watch can be also picked up at bargain prices. Zenith was worth inclusion in the list JP.
Absolutely correct!! If you want to look like the Jones' , you need to spend like the Johnsons!! For the price of one retail Tag, I have 3 near mint used ones. Just do your research.
mzoziety Good point. “Never pay retail... unless it’s a GMT Master II, a Daytona or a 5711”. Those you buy, then immediately sell and use the profits to buy watches you actually like.
Great topic John! The resale prices depends not just in marketing, management plays a big part too. Brands under both Swatch and Richemont groups normally don’t do so well. Jaquet Droz, Blancpain and even Glashutte Original are great brands but are suffering .
I agree with you, John. Collecting is about having fun with the watch's. My first Automatic was a Tag Hauer Professional dive watch. I loved it. I eventually traded it for something else. You made a comment about Vachron using JLC movements. I'm not certain, but I think that there's some kind of relationship between the companies. Back a few decades ago I was looking for a JLC Mystery Dial with the diamonds. I found a Vachron that was exactly like the JLC that I was looking for kind of cheap. At that time I had never heard of Vachron so I passed it up. That was my biggest watch collecting error. That is why I think that Vachron and JLC at least have a relationship like Rolls Royce and Bentley has. Today, I'm kind of into Seiko. I think that Seiko is the next big thing. I don't think that anyone can go wrong, long term, with any of the automatic Seiko's. I do, kind of shunned the SKX and the 5 because I don't like the shared movement, but I love the SRP's
Fantastic list and very thoughtful video as always John. I think it is interesting that I have never mentions Blancpain...they seem to lose about 50% on the used market. A very good reason to buy used :)
It’s fun rolling with different watches but low resale value makes that prohibitive so preowned that you can resell at similar prices is key to getting a variety of watches yearly. Like having a yearly budget in terms of how much you can lose on watches.
Watches as investments is a really bad idea for the average person. Unless what you’ve got is a really rare piece, the prices will just keep going down. You’d also need to be connected with the Richie Rich’s who’d be willing to buy it from you. From my experience at least in Asia, when it comes to jewelry/watches/cars, people will only buy secondhand if it’s significantly below market price. If looking for investments, dont go for watches. Only buy watches what you like!
As soon as I saw the title, I knew Tag Heuer would be mentioned. And, I'm a fan boy. Great advice though on buying either second hand (or on the gray market).
John, I’m glad that both you and Fed you talk about all watch brands and give your opinions on these. I’m getting a bit fed up of some people only talking about Rolex, I know Rolex is a great brand (I own a couple myself so I’m not disrespecting them) with great value retention but I like lots of brands whether they loose value or not. It’s good to hear the pros and cons of the wide range of brands which you cover. Also the Delray website has some brands that I’ve never heard of before (not that I’m an expert) which look great, could you cover any of these for future topics ?
John P. There are other brands that you can get good deals on the used market that are very hard to sell new and watch dealers usually want nothing to do with them unless they get them super cheap. Tag Heuer, Breitling, IWC, JLC and Pams. I have a buddy that was able to get Breitling for 1/3 of MSRP, I have seen IWC going for 40% off MSRP at Sams club. You can get Pams 50% off now. Good time to buy at the depreciated level than buying new and if you need to sell it only get may be lucky to get 25% of what you paid new. So best to buy used or new at steep discounts. These are watches to be used and enjoyed. You will not make money with them. I think Only Rolex and AP, and some AP are going up in value year after year and hard to get stuff goes over retail. I am not into dress watches as I only wear them to funerals and weddings. There are many brands I never heard of that make decent watches. Vintage watches would require too much typing for me, but I have an interest in them and the main reason I subscribed to this channel. Take care.
Never heard of the other watches for it being Swiss except Tag Huer. I look at Tag Huer as a watch catered for NASCAR race drivers because of legendary action actor from the 60's Steve MacQueen owning one and the carry on of his legacy. Another one to cover is a Breitling which I associate with Airplane Pilots like John Travolta. I think you should also cover the age demographics because I worry about these watch brands since milleninals don't buy into this. I see them with digital Smart watches like an Iphone watch or Samsung.
Timing is everything when it comes to resale. Example: about 4.5 years ago I parted ways with my 114060 ceramic sub. I bought new for $6700 (good value) but when it came time to sell, I got my ass handed to me. If I had waited a few years I could have sold it for more than I bought it for. You never know when a brand or model is going to be in high demand sometimes
@@hgm8337 it depends. If you look at the value the piece has without any emtional/status added. Then the statement you made was wrong. But the true value if looked at everything is always the 2nd hand market price (Unless you count buying from an ad as extra value). For me it is somewhere in the middle. I don't think rolex watches should be valued at their premium on the 2nd hand market. So I think what he meant was that because of people seeing it as an investment they don't really look at what they would value the watch and therefore increase the price without actually thinking it is worth that much.
So I guess Seiko watched are pretty crap, in addition to any other ‘value’ brand. And PP watches must be worth 125k because they’re that much better than a $10 Casio with much more advanced quartz technology. This line of reasoning is BS and does not actually reflect reality imo. Yes Rolex makes good watches and are partly priced high because of that, but the vast majority of the expense comes from branding (especially above the entry-level models), which has been cleverly engrained into our social consciousness so much and for so long that it is reflected in how much we are willing to pay for it (which, going by your logic is representative of the inherent value of the watch rather than marketing ‘fluff’). So no, I disagree that the used price of a watch serves to reflect its intrinsic value alone.
I just tried for the first time to give Tag a chance. I admit to bypassing them for a long time because of their low regard in the watch community. When I saw the Monza heritage piece in all black, I loved it and bought one from a reputable seller on one of the forums. Well, I sent it off to Tag for service immediately because it was gaining 25 seconds a day, the 30 minute counter hand wasn't centered and because the minute hand would not keep up with the running seconds hand (it was always off the correct minute marker after a full minute). I got the watch back after two months and $300, and they completely scratched the black coating off on either side of the crown between the pushers (and not light scratches) and never addressed the 30 minute counter hand or the lagging minute hand. This was after repeated calls to them to make sure they addressed these issues and I was given assurances many times over. Needless to say, it is no longer in my possession, and now I have quantifiable first-hand knowledge of why I'll never touch a Tag again.
@@JohnPWatches Yeah, it was. Especially after waiting for so long. I was really looking forward to getting it back "like new" because I think design-wise, it's a head turning watch. It just proves the old adage that you can't polish a turd.
This is a very strange story. The first problem is that you bought a broken watch. To break one of the good Heuer models you really have to treat them very bad. So it was just a bad purchase. Second: To send it in then and pay 300.- is fully ok. You will pay that with every swiss brand. And it is not their fault that you send them a banged up watch. 3. I just don't believe that they made it worse. Sorry for that.
Hi John, i live in the caribbean and i visit Curacao every 2 months for work. You were spot on with the sellers at the ADs. They mostly deal with cruise ship visitors and capitalize on the impulse buys. Offer the 10% etc. However, the staff are well trained and knowledgeable. Heading back in September, lol
Nice to hear some one state different countries go for different brands , in China they go for Tudor instead of Rolex. In Poland it's Zenith and I believe in the U.S.A the Breitling flying B is popular as well as Franc Vila which never comes up on vlogs. But I am affraid that all theys vlogs are pulling the watch market down buy sencebal gray market leave AD alone and enjoy your watch....
Great episode, but it would have been excellent if a comparison of the msrp and pre-owned price of some of the cited brands and models were made. More power, John P!
All watches lose money at the current moment apart from some rolex, AP and patek phillippe pieces. As a collector for 20 years I can tell you all Watches are not an investment, it is a hobby or an enjoyment of owning a time piece you like. At the current time with covid 19 amongst us, I think within months, all watches will lose money when purchased at retail price.
JOHN can you do a show about Bremont watches. I fell in love with a Bremont BOEING model 247/WH/SS and bought it. Can you talk about how it holds value and quality?
GREAT Video John. I am fan of Federico as well. I watch his videos all the time. I have entry level watches ranging from quartz fashion watches to Eco drive/solar to Automatics. I do not see as I will make any money from any of my watches. You have to invest lots of money into those watches that will hold a lot of value and even make you money. Unfortunately, like most, I do not have that luxury. I like the hobby, but once my 6 winder + 7 slots box is full, I will take a big break.
Hi John! Although I had to purchase a more practical watch for my future retirement and travel, I have always admired the Heuer Autavia line. More specifically, either the Jo Siffert or Jack Heuer 85th Birthday reissues. Are these not both top quality chronos?
I mostly buy pre-owned, and recently was able to purchase a near-new Mido Commander 1959 auto ($1,150USD retail) in unworn condition from a local seller (full kit, with receipt, plus met at AD to verify) for the equivalent of $220USD. Mido, while only an entry-level luxury brand, might be a good fit for a list like this, as I've seen some of their other models selling for considerably less than retail too. It's a relatively popular brand in Europe, Asia, Mexico and some other jurisdictions, but not so much in the US or Canada, where I live. BTW, have been tempted by some great GP deals recently, and will start looking for a pre-owned H. Moser as well. Thanks for the great content.
Just a thought on the video JP, I think it would have been nice to give an example of pricing to illustrate your point, say, take one example of each brand, give retail, give mint pre owned price instead of just saying significantly cheaper, etc.
Great video with good lessons. That said I'm not too worried about losing money on a watch. Every consumer good I buy from my car to clothing to electronics to appliances all lose value. Many of those things go to a zero dollar value when I throw them away or give them away years later. However my diamond encrusted Tag Aquaracer (bought used) will still have some value when sold a decade or two from now.
I got a tip from a friend who is involved in watch dealing about Breitling losing 40% of their resale value once you get them out of the AD, as a rule of thumb almost. Do you think it's right? Sounds right to me but the turnaround they are making at the moment might change that...
You should talk about the go to watches, the beater watches like the seiko turtle or the g shock mudmaster. I have the expensive watches, but I'm not going to wear it camping, fishing , riding my bike. Is there a beater equlivent in the luxury line? I guess Tag Heuer is your beater.
And some models within some very popular brands loose also Like a new Rolex Daydate in gold and also in datejust in steel if you pay retail for them. However as far as I know 5 - 8 % is top discout prices on them.
Breguet prices too are like a lead zeppelin... It's kinda crazy to see those beautiful Type XX sometimes sold under $5k, and their wide range of super tasteful dress-watches too are sometimes sold way below retail. But, good for me who want's a Breguet (as a life companion, not as an investment)..
The Autavia chrono and the Monaco gets quite a bit of love, but the Aquaracer and Formula 1 (unfortunately for me because I personally own an Aquaracer with blue dial and the Batman homage F1) don’t get a lot of conversation in the collector community. Tag’s reputation takes a hit because they make quite a bit of their catalogue in quartz and don’t do a lot of in-house movements. Lastly, Tag is owned by LVMH, so there is a level of ‘hate’ because of their parent ownership group being a high fashion business not just a traditional watch business.
The “cruise” special is because LVMH owns the company that runs the jewelry stores... hence the Tag Heuer push. I actually like Tag and it’s my only auto, but pre owned. I agree none are investments to grow, but to enjoy. But what is the “Toyota Camry” of watches? Obtainable new but keeps value after years?
Mark Michael , hi i. Go to work on a bicycle so it is strong enough to beat the road. It is a very classy watch. You feel much more upgraded then a Heavy Rolex sport watch
John, Really appreciate you making this content. Would you mind going over the Super quartz - quartz luxury watches I have been looking into the digital quartz Breitling B1 and the Aerospace along with the Omega X-33 would love to hear your input on them, also what is your opinion on Rado wathches? Its a recognised brand among the "normies" here but I have found watch you tubers not having or reviewing any of the models- what is your opinion on them?
Lorenzo's Lllamas I agree. I’d like to see more on super quartz. Among my automatics, I have an Aerospace (for 30 years now) and a Tag Heuer AquaRacer Regatta, Calibre S (Mecha-Quartz). These are not your standard run of the mill quartz watches. Like to know what else is out there!
Iv got a tag for work and a older very nice Rolex for dress and casual wear when off work. All I'll ever need for a long time. If these ever get gone for whatever reason I'll probably go seiko quartz SS. They have some very nice ones out now.
Hi John P, what about Panerai? Have they fallen from grace and are they back in the "watch" game? I know their watches is not as popular as before, let me know your thoughts on this. Thanks Regards Kelvin
I tend to buy pre-owned and always buy what I want to wear, as a result I don't care if a watch depreciates immediately and I don't consider re-sale price. As a result some of my watches have gone up in value while others have stayed the same or gone down and it does not effect my feelings for the watch.
What about going the grey market route or buying from a dealer that isn't charging full MSRP? Would you get the watch for the market price then or would it still be over valued?
Depends on the circumstances and the watch. Grey market usually does not come with warranty card, which makes it difficult to compare directly from AD because warranty does have monetary value.
John I really like the Laureato. What’s the best year to look for so that I’m taking advantage of the depreciation curve? I’m buying because I like the watch and history but yet don’t want one that continues to drop after I buy it. Or is this the wrong watch? VC better in that regard. I do like the 1956.
Nice topic JP. Now that we know who is tanking in the second market explain how they stay in business? If VC is hurting so bad, why are they not drowning? Tag Heuer? No. Heuer! Yes.
I’m a watch collector... I have a tag F1 as my tool watch... cost me 2k Australian I beat it up every day and I work in heavy industry “chemicals” you’d be amazed at what it can take...
The internet has helped improve many aspects of society. However, as someone in their sixth decade, websites have not merely inflated but undeservingly been responsible for the grossly expensive price of numismatic coins, watches, and virtually every collectable one can think of. Also, you mention the Far East market. How can anyone apart from an experienced expert tell the difference nowadays between so-called reproduction watches or fakes which have flooded the market. I would appreciate advice on this. New subscriber. Thanks.
It's a flawed premise since basically all watches (I know, there are rare exceptions) lose value. However, it's an interesting conversation nonetheless. VC shouldn't be on the list as I don't think the depreciation is nearly as bad as brands like Omega.
Just bought GP beauty with an in house movement for 3.5 k. Won’t sell. Looking to other GP’s. Happy happy they are undervalued. Love them on the front end....do not care about the back end
Value loss in large amounts in no particular order: Omega, any German watch, every Asian brand, hublot, Rolex except sports models, every Panerai, AP, Vacheron, breguet, JLC, movado, franck muller, montblanc, etc etc etc
Yup as long as your getting these pieces at least 50% off retail it's not bad I guess. Most are probably only worth a third of their original retail price on the pre owned market..
The only brand that can get skyrockted in terms of market price is g-shock because it doesn’t even has a bit of gold on it but can get tripled in price although the functions of the watch is basic
Hi! Thank you for the useful video. What do you think about Breguet and A.Lange&Sohne watches? I am considering a 50 years birthday present for myself. Let me tell you first of all I do not expect “a Rolex level value hold” for those brands but which models of those two brands have potential on the long run in terms of value. Thanks in advance -Hakan
Pierre-Andre Labeau> I read that rich people *only* care about resale value, and that is why they, and their future family, is/will continue to be rich 🤷♂️
gonnahavemesomefun I hope it makes them happy... I was and, since 2008, I became poor, handicapped and ill... (MS and Cancer) ... so IRDGAF about that resale value... but when I was, the crowd didn’t care either... The only thing that everybody should care about it... Do you like it? Will it give you pleasure?
Pierre-Andre Labeau Look at it this way: instead of buying watches from these brands at retail prices, look them up in the used market and you may get really awesome deals!
I would like to see you review the Aragon Virtuoso with an ETA movement and a Invicta Grand Diver with a Meteorite dial and Silleta sw 200 movement. Great video and thanks for sharing.
Do 1960’s Heuer chronographs (pre “TAG”) have any value in say 95% condition? Purchased in NOLA in 1969 @ Zales under the Brand name Baylor. They were also sold through JC Penny’s but under what brand name is unknown to me. I saw one on Dan Henry’s site but in very rough condition. Thanks! (Full mechanical 30 minute sub dial and the sweep is the standard chrograph functions and the sweep second is the other sub dial.........Runs well and had a full service last year.)
What makes investing in watches much less fun is short term speculation, when you buy it to sell after 3 yrs. But if you invest long term, you get to keep your money and enjoy the watches as well ☺👍 It's more of a commodity, watches are meant to hedge inflation rather than make money from it. I collect Rolex for the same reason why Warren Buffett likes the company 😊
The brands that are heavily discounted brand new in the gray market just means the watch brands are obscenely overpricing them. ADs sell to gray and still have to make some money in the process. All this tells me is the crazy mark up these luxury brands are demanding despite lacking the required brand status and prestige.
![Quando Rondo - Grow Up [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8zFnCg3BO4Q/mqdefault.jpg)
Summary:
2:37: Girard-Perregaux
4:56: Ulysse Nardin
6:47: Vacheron Constantin
10:27: H. Moser & Cie
12:20: Tag Heuer
FP Journe
He should’ve done this list him self...
Thanks for the summary
Thank you for the summary.
You are a prince among men.
I buy watched because I like them , have from Omega to Timex , and I don't care about resale value.
I am not a watch dealer, I don't give a shit about keeping the monetary value, I care about how special is every watch to me and to me only !!
Excellent cheers
Do not care what anyone else thinks about your watch collection. Good attitude to have!!!
Love my Timex Weekender!
hello mate, I feel the same way you do! love my watches , all of them and for the same reason, they are special to me!
Watches want to be worn! Value is in the way they make you feel. That’s it.
Yup
Well there is something to be said for a quality watch made from quality parts. But many watches are ridiculously overpriced. People keep buying them because of the hoopla and then they’re scared to wear them because they might scratch or damage them. It’s comical.
So much this. I get just as much joy out of my Vostok amphibia as I do out of anything higher end.
I don’t know why people keep saying this. If one is going to put $5,000 or more in a watch, it’s not a bad idea to want it to retain most of its value should one must need to sell it.
Maybe you would be happy with my watch and having it dropped 50% in value but I don’t think you’re speaking for most of us. I want a Watch that I can truly enjoy wearing, looking at, valuing it’s history but I do not want something that is going to annually drop in value
Love my Tag. Don’t care if it losses value as I don’t plan to sell it
Well put
Of you dont plan to sell, then the resale value does not matter at all.
Tag gets a bad rap from the uneducated. Buy Grey market new or used, no value lost.
Andrew Lim. What model?
Andrew Lim. Transitional 2000 Automatic? What is that? What model? You got what serviced? What movement? What was done with the watch. $1000 is high for a service. Done by who? Tag? Preety vague description.
You are right about watches being a hobby as opposed to being investments. I could careless about the resale value of these watches and just enjoy them for what they are. If you have to worry about the resale value of your watches, then you should not be buying them in the first place. Buy what you can afford and just enjoy it!
I don't mind at all because I can afford the value loss. So I only buy what I like.
I think the greedy people diving into the watch world searching for an investment destroy the fun for the real watch guys who love watches.
I wouldn't say everyone is greedy, but certainly speculators are holding pieces back from hobbyists, for good or bad.
Same as sneakers man
Greedy. So if u work 9-5 selling a product others want is "GREEDY" of ofering your IT serveces is "Greedy"? Were does this mentality come from (A.O.C)?
@I *rolex
@I Looks like you're the Joe Biden of commentators, who are clueless about what you're talking about.
Agree with the overriding thought. Watch collecting is FUN. I'm sure there are people out there that can make a great living as a watch collector. Collecting watches for me is just to appreciate the art and the engineering of watchmaking. Once I've gotten a watch, it's pretty tough to pry it away from me because when I buy a new watch, I REALLY like it...and that's the way I think it will stay. My guess is the only time my watches will sell will be at my estate sale!
You are 100% right about TAG's being an impulse buy. I was once going to buy a tag at the top of Jungfraujoch!! Glad something stopped me from within at the very last moment.
I enjoyed my watches even if the value degraded I don’t mind as long as it makes us happy
Ah yes!!
In fact that’s good if you then buy second hand, right?
You sound rich
Chong Yen I’m not rich Watch should be enjoyed remember be satisfied always
I've been collecting watches for 5 years now, but unfortunately didn't learn some of these principles early enough. I've bought a few watches at retail (TAG and Omega) early on, but similar bought the desirable watches at retail Hulk, Batman, and 5711 later on. I love all my watches and don't look at them as investments. Great content
Thanks Mitch! Well done :)
If you bought Hulk and Barman at retail, then you really bought very cheap.
@@rafgomez333 Not to mention the Nautilus 5711
I collect for passion, not profit.
Unfortunately, you can add Breguet and Zenith
Both look better than the Royal Oak and 5711. I collect for passion, not for a few more dollars in the bank.
I just got a Hamilton khaki field automatic and I love it . I know I will lose money on it if I sell it but I don't care. It is a nice everyday watch .
I have a Hamilton field that has been out of production for 10 years in this format, I can get double what I paid for it no questions asked. Condition is key but if you only buy watches after they are out of production you can get them for half what they sold for originally and sell them for what you paid (or batter) a few years later. While this obviously does not apply to fashion watch brands it is not unique to luxury brands like Rolex.
Thats a good wa5ch. Im thinking of getting the hami khaki king
Tag heuer actually has a good resale value. I work in the pawn industry. Listing alot of high end items, tags hold their value quite well. I have a black and and gold formula 1. 1600 new, resale id get 1280. Not a massive hit
It's not the destination, it's the journey. Have enjoyed the buying, trading and selling and the education from same. Great lesson from J.J. at Dallas Watches: "There's a lot of chicanery in the watch business." Know from whom you buy and with whom you trade. Great subject, thanks!
Spending the money to keep a watch properly service kills any return on investment. Buy them for enjoyment, enjoy the good value on the secondary market.
I managed to snag my VC 47040 at a great discount pre-owned. Definitely loads of bargains if you look hard enough.
Irving Escobar Congrats! Love VCO . I’m happy to hunt for a H Moser
While it's great to have watches that appreciate in value, just focusing on just the potential upside takes the fun out of the hobby. I've met people that hoard Daytonas and Kermit Subs but never wear them just because they would like to get the highest return possible when they sell the watches. I know someone that actually likes JLC and Panerai better than Rolex but chooses to buy only Rolex just because of the resale value and it's just really sad. Besides, if you are just looking for monetary gain there are other investments out there that give a better rate of return than watches if you do your homework.
Tag Heuer pre-owned is a bargain. I am seriously considering buying a pre-owned Grand Carrera Caliber 36. Originally at 8k GBP now resales for just below 4k GBP. And an El Primero movement and original caliper chronograph. What not to like. Only Zenith watches are also dropping in prices as pre-owned. So a rainbow flyback watch can be also picked up at bargain prices. Zenith was worth inclusion in the list JP.
I have a better idea. Use your phone to get the time. It is much cheaper and you get the same result.
@@danieltadros3262 Do you watch movies on your phone? Seems like you would think it's the same experience.
I collect timepieces and live by one rule....”never pay retail”!!!!!
Absolutely correct!! If you want to look like the Jones' , you need to spend like the Johnsons!! For the price of one retail Tag, I have 3 near mint used ones. Just do your research.
Column Wheel where do you buy and not pay retail?
mzoziety Good point. “Never pay retail... unless it’s a GMT Master II, a Daytona or a 5711”.
Those you buy, then immediately sell and use the profits to buy watches you actually like.
Column Wheel Only PP steel
Then you’ll never get a Rolex 😂
Glad to hear that VC lost a value.. it make me easier to buy my holy grail the overseas ❤️
I would love to have an Overseas. Patek has the ugly Nautilus. Sooo sick of Royal Oak. A one trick pony.
Peace
Unfortunately, that’s not the case any more with the Overseas…
Great topic John! The resale prices depends not just in marketing, management plays a big part too. Brands under both Swatch and Richemont groups normally don’t do so well. Jaquet Droz, Blancpain and even Glashutte Original are great brands but are suffering .
I agree with you, John. Collecting is about having fun with the watch's. My first Automatic was a Tag Hauer Professional dive watch. I loved it. I eventually traded it for something else. You made a comment about Vachron using JLC movements. I'm not certain, but I think that there's some kind of relationship between the companies. Back a few decades ago I was looking for a JLC Mystery Dial with the diamonds. I found a Vachron that was exactly like the JLC that I was looking for kind of cheap. At that time I had never heard of Vachron so I passed it up. That was my biggest watch collecting error. That is why I think that Vachron and JLC at least have a relationship like Rolls Royce and Bentley has.
Today, I'm kind of into Seiko. I think that Seiko is the next big thing. I don't think that anyone can go wrong, long term, with any of the automatic Seiko's. I do, kind of shunned the SKX and the 5 because I don't like the shared movement, but I love the SRP's
There was movement swapping for some time. Cheers!
Grand Seiko too. Great pieces, pre-loved.
Good choice.
Great point
FINALLY!...a breath of sanity concerning watch investing. Thanks JohnP 💕🕵🏼♀️
Thank you !
Fantastic list and very thoughtful video as always John. I think it is interesting that I have never mentions Blancpain...they seem to lose about 50% on the used market. A very good reason to buy used :)
Good option for the list. Blancpain does have some cool pieces. Cheers!
It’s fun rolling with different watches but low resale value makes that prohibitive so preowned that you can resell at similar prices is key to getting a variety of watches yearly. Like having a yearly budget in terms of how much you can lose on watches.
Watches as investments is a really bad idea for the average person. Unless what you’ve got is a really rare piece, the prices will just keep going down. You’d also need to be connected with the Richie Rich’s who’d be willing to buy it from you. From my experience at least in Asia, when it comes to jewelry/watches/cars, people will only buy secondhand if it’s significantly below market price. If looking for investments, dont go for watches. Only buy watches what you like!
Well put !
For 6 months I hear 2 things rolex and resale value. I am going to take my pills
Even the ones that go up in value doesn’t make them a great investment. How many watches can match the return of the S&P 500 over the last 10 years?
austin rosin Great job on being up $200!
As soon as I saw the title, I knew Tag Heuer would be mentioned. And, I'm a fan boy. Great advice though on buying either second hand (or on the gray market).
John, I’m glad that both you and Fed you talk about all watch brands and give your opinions on these. I’m getting a bit fed up of some people only talking about Rolex, I know Rolex is a great brand (I own a couple myself so I’m not disrespecting them) with great value retention but I like lots of brands whether they loose value or not.
It’s good to hear the pros and cons of the wide range of brands which you cover. Also the Delray website has some brands that I’ve never heard of before (not that I’m an expert) which look great, could you cover any of these for future topics ?
John P. There are other brands that you can get good deals on the used market that are very hard to sell new and watch dealers usually want nothing to do with them unless they get them super cheap. Tag Heuer, Breitling, IWC, JLC and Pams. I have a buddy that was able to get Breitling for 1/3 of MSRP, I have seen IWC going for 40% off MSRP at Sams club. You can get Pams 50% off now. Good time to buy at the depreciated level than buying new and if you need to sell it only get may be lucky to get 25% of what you paid new. So best to buy used or new at steep discounts. These are watches to be used and enjoyed. You will not make money with them. I think Only Rolex and AP, and some AP are going up in value year after year and hard to get stuff goes over retail. I am not into dress watches as I only wear them to funerals and weddings. There are many brands I never heard of that make decent watches. Vintage watches would require too much typing for me, but I have an interest in them and the main reason I subscribed to this channel. Take care.
Never heard of the other watches for it being Swiss except Tag Huer. I look at Tag Huer as a watch catered for NASCAR race drivers because of legendary action actor from the 60's Steve MacQueen owning one and the carry on of his legacy. Another one to cover is a Breitling which I associate with Airplane Pilots like John Travolta. I think you should also cover the age demographics because I worry about these watch brands since milleninals don't buy into this. I see them with digital Smart watches like an Iphone watch or Samsung.
The new generation would still buy a luxury watch only when they get famous and rich
I also believe many watch brands don’t invest enough in marketing which can impact the strength of a brand.
Well said.
Timing is everything when it comes to resale. Example: about 4.5 years ago I parted ways with my 114060 ceramic sub. I bought new for $6700 (good value) but when it came time to sell, I got my ass handed to me. If I had waited a few years I could have sold it for more than I bought it for. You never know when a brand or model is going to be in high demand sometimes
Basically the second hand price tells you the real value of the watch,.. ie less the marketing fluff mark-up imho
That's probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Price and value aren't the same... smh
How so? Sorry confused by my own stupidity,.. the value of anything is what someone else is willing to pay for it, I thought
@@hgm8337 it depends. If you look at the value the piece has without any emtional/status added. Then the statement you made was wrong. But the true value if looked at everything is always the 2nd hand market price (Unless you count buying from an ad as extra value). For me it is somewhere in the middle. I don't think rolex watches should be valued at their premium on the 2nd hand market. So I think what he meant was that because of people seeing it as an investment they don't really look at what they would value the watch and therefore increase the price without actually thinking it is worth that much.
@@florishaze2623 Chuck is correct, and your opinion carries no weight. A watch is worth what someone will pay for it. Full stop.
So I guess Seiko watched are pretty crap, in addition to any other ‘value’ brand. And PP watches must be worth 125k because they’re that much better than a $10 Casio with much more advanced quartz technology. This line of reasoning is BS and does not actually reflect reality imo. Yes Rolex makes good watches and are partly priced high because of that, but the vast majority of the expense comes from branding (especially above the entry-level models), which has been cleverly engrained into our social consciousness so much and for so long that it is reflected in how much we are willing to pay for it (which, going by your logic is representative of the inherent value of the watch rather than marketing ‘fluff’). So no, I disagree that the used price of a watch serves to reflect its intrinsic value alone.
hey John, i'm with everyone, great video, look forward to new studio. love to hear your take on flip-side...5 most over-priced/pretentious brands.
I just tried for the first time to give Tag a chance. I admit to bypassing them for a long time because of their low regard in the watch community. When I saw the Monza heritage piece in all black, I loved it and bought one from a reputable seller on one of the forums. Well, I sent it off to Tag for service immediately because it was gaining 25 seconds a day, the 30 minute counter hand wasn't centered and because the minute hand would not keep up with the running seconds hand (it was always off the correct minute marker after a full minute). I got the watch back after two months and $300, and they completely scratched the black coating off on either side of the crown between the pushers (and not light scratches) and never addressed the 30 minute counter hand or the lagging minute hand. This was after repeated calls to them to make sure they addressed these issues and I was given assurances many times over. Needless to say, it is no longer in my possession, and now I have quantifiable first-hand knowledge of why I'll never touch a Tag again.
Tags are pieces of crap. Nothing else to add. Sorry!
Wow, sounds horrible :(
@@JohnPWatches Yeah, it was. Especially after waiting for so long. I was really looking forward to getting it back "like new" because I think design-wise, it's a head turning watch. It just proves the old adage that you can't polish a turd.
@@bigchiponmyshoulder7573 you don't have a clue.
This is a very strange story. The first problem is that you bought a broken watch. To break one of the good Heuer models you really have to treat them very bad. So it was just a bad purchase. Second: To send it in then and pay 300.- is fully ok. You will pay that with every swiss brand. And it is not their fault that you send them a banged up watch.
3. I just don't believe that they made it worse. Sorry for that.
Hi John, i live in the caribbean and i visit Curacao every 2 months for work. You were spot on with the sellers at the ADs. They mostly deal with cruise ship visitors and capitalize on the impulse buys. Offer the 10% etc. However, the staff are well trained and knowledgeable. Heading back in September, lol
They are sharks! lol
Thanks for the tips. Many Rolex Datejust losses a lot of value when purchase new when a person desperately need to seek to pawn shop.
True
Your tag heuer was on point in my case. Impulse buying with AD’s promo. 50% off retail price.
With the Seiko Arnie being re-issued, time to hit the gym and bulk again. Another great video. Keep up the good work.
Well, any watch that isn‘t:
-Rolex steel sports watch
-Nautilus or Aquanaut
-most of the Royal Oaks
-few limited Omegas
Generally true. Those hopping into watches from these brands or branching out from them should know :)
I tried watching Federico, I can’t. I’m glad you shoot your own vids.
Nice to hear some one state different countries go for different brands , in China they go for Tudor
instead of Rolex.
In Poland it's Zenith and I believe in the U.S.A the Breitling flying B is popular as well as Franc Vila
which never comes up on vlogs.
But I am affraid that all theys vlogs are pulling the watch market down buy sencebal gray market
leave AD alone and enjoy your watch....
In Italy Eberhard & Co is very popular
Great episode, but it would have been excellent if a comparison of the msrp and pre-owned price of some of the cited brands and models were made. More power, John P!
Thanks! Good idea- I had planned to do that but I chose to avoid any tangible heartbreaks from current owners of the watches :)
All watches lose money at the current moment apart from some rolex, AP and patek phillippe pieces. As a collector for 20 years I can tell you all Watches are not an investment, it is a hobby or an enjoyment of owning a time piece you like. At the current time with covid 19 amongst us, I think within months, all watches will lose money when purchased at retail price.
I'm always coming back to the UN maxi marine diver, I really like the look
It's a cool edgy looking diver
@@JohnPWatches what a good ball park for a preowned 44mm Maxi Marine diver in blue? Can you get one for under $3K
JOHN can you do a show about Bremont watches. I fell in love with a Bremont BOEING model 247/WH/SS and bought it. Can you talk about how it holds value and quality?
GREAT Video John. I am fan of Federico as well. I watch his videos all the time. I have entry level watches ranging from quartz fashion watches to Eco drive/solar to Automatics. I do not see as I will make any money from any of my watches. You have to invest lots of money into those watches that will hold a lot of value and even make you money. Unfortunately, like most, I do not have that luxury. I like the hobby, but once my 6 winder + 7 slots box is full, I will take a big break.
Great perspective!
Hi John! Although I had to purchase a more practical watch for my future retirement and travel, I have always admired the Heuer Autavia line. More specifically, either the Jo Siffert or Jack Heuer 85th Birthday reissues. Are these not both top quality chronos?
They definitely are!
I mostly buy pre-owned, and recently was able to purchase a near-new Mido Commander 1959 auto ($1,150USD retail) in unworn condition from a local seller (full kit, with receipt, plus met at AD to verify) for the equivalent of $220USD. Mido, while only an entry-level luxury brand, might be a good fit for a list like this, as I've seen some of their other models selling for considerably less than retail too. It's a relatively popular brand in Europe, Asia, Mexico and some other jurisdictions, but not so much in the US or Canada, where I live. BTW, have been tempted by some great GP deals recently, and will start looking for a pre-owned H. Moser as well. Thanks for the great content.
Just a thought on the video JP, I think it would have been nice to give an example of pricing to illustrate your point, say, take one example of each brand, give retail, give mint pre owned price instead of just saying significantly cheaper, etc.
Great video with good lessons. That said I'm not too worried about losing money on a watch. Every consumer good I buy from my car to clothing to electronics to appliances all lose value. Many of those things go to a zero dollar value when I throw them away or give them away years later. However my diamond encrusted Tag Aquaracer (bought used) will still have some value when sold a decade or two from now.
I got a tip from a friend who is involved in watch dealing about Breitling losing 40% of their resale value once you get them out of the AD, as a rule of thumb almost.
Do you think it's right?
Sounds right to me but the turnaround they are making at the moment might change that...
Closer to 60% or more
@@JohnPWatches on that basis, I guess Breitling is no.6 on your list haha
Girard Perregaux Laureato is a stunning timepiece. But still, ca 6 or 7 K is a lot of money.
It's 2021.
I wish I could score a "cheap" VC or Moser.
Great vid. Very nostalgic.
Agree with most but how is Breitling not on this list? The only way to purchase them is pre-owned or grey market.
Which brand not besides Rolex or Patek?
I've beat up the brand enough in recent times. It is a shame to see a brand with real history become wrecked by penny-pinching investors.
@@JohnPWatches Agreed
You should talk about the go to watches, the beater watches like the seiko turtle or the g shock mudmaster. I have the expensive watches, but I'm not going to wear it camping, fishing , riding my bike. Is there a beater equlivent in the luxury line? I guess Tag Heuer is your beater.
John, how about Rolex Oyster Quartz ? Is it a good watch to start the Rolex collection ?
And some models within some very popular brands loose also Like a new Rolex Daydate in gold and also in datejust in steel if you pay retail for them. However as far as I know 5 - 8 % is top discout prices on them.
starts at 2:37
What do you think is a better buy.
$3500 Tag, $3700 Omega, or $4700 Breitling? They're all sold new on an online discount website.
Breguet prices too are like a lead zeppelin... It's kinda crazy to see those beautiful Type XX sometimes sold under $5k, and their wide range of super tasteful dress-watches too are sometimes sold way below retail. But, good for me who want's a Breguet (as a life companion, not as an investment)..
I think my tag aquaracer was a great buy. I got secondhand a couple years old at over 50% off retail!
The Autavia chrono and the Monaco gets quite a bit of love, but the Aquaracer and Formula 1 (unfortunately for me because I personally own an Aquaracer with blue dial and the Batman homage F1) don’t get a lot of conversation in the collector community. Tag’s reputation takes a hit because they make quite a bit of their catalogue in quartz and don’t do a lot of in-house movements. Lastly, Tag is owned by LVMH, so there is a level of ‘hate’ because of their parent ownership group being a high fashion business not just a traditional watch business.
The “cruise” special is because LVMH owns the company that runs the jewelry stores... hence the Tag Heuer push. I actually like Tag and it’s my only auto, but pre owned. I agree none are investments to grow, but to enjoy. But what is the “Toyota Camry” of watches? Obtainable new but keeps value after years?
I bought a Gp wwtc small seconds it is an amazing watch. I wear it daily!
good watch
Mark Michael , hi i. Go to work on a bicycle so it is strong enough to beat the road. It is a very classy watch. You feel much more upgraded then a Heavy Rolex sport watch
Awesome video. Can also be titled- good watches available for great deals pre-owned!
Very true, thanks!
John, Really appreciate you making this content. Would you mind going over the Super quartz - quartz luxury watches I have been looking into the digital quartz Breitling B1 and the Aerospace along with the Omega X-33 would love to hear your input on them, also what is your opinion on Rado wathches? Its a recognised brand among the "normies" here but I have found watch you tubers not having or reviewing any of the models- what is your opinion on them?
Lorenzo's Lllamas 9f quartz
Lorenzo's Lllamas I agree. I’d like to see more on super quartz. Among my automatics, I have an Aerospace (for 30 years now) and a Tag Heuer AquaRacer Regatta, Calibre S (Mecha-Quartz). These are not your standard run of the mill quartz watches. Like to know what else is out there!
Hi! I'll work this into my rotation soon
@@JohnPWatches Thanks for replying.
@@Goldenbaba430 Yeah forgot about the Grand Seikos.
Iv got a tag for work and a older very nice Rolex for dress and casual wear when off work. All I'll ever need for a long time. If these ever get gone for whatever reason I'll probably go seiko quartz SS. They have some very nice ones out now.
Hi John P, what about Panerai? Have they fallen from grace and are they back in the "watch" game? I know their watches is not as popular as before, let me know your thoughts on this. Thanks
Regards
Kelvin
They still have loyal supports but I suspect they lost most of their “trend” customers- having moved on to tudor, rolex sport, and other
Excellent video and topic, I wish you would expand that list. More novice buyers like myself need more of the honest opinions you drop.
Thanks!
I love my UN dual time. The movement finish is great compared to others brands in the same tier.
I tend to buy pre-owned and always buy what I want to wear, as a result I don't care if a watch depreciates immediately and I don't consider re-sale price. As a result some of my watches have gone up in value while others have stayed the same or gone down and it does not effect my feelings for the watch.
The Girard Perregaux Laureato definitely on my list!
Nice watch
I agree I tried one on at an AD and thought it was very nice, would never buy it new.
What about going the grey market route or buying from a dealer that isn't charging full MSRP? Would you get the watch for the market price then or would it still be over valued?
Depends on the circumstances and the watch. Grey market usually does not come with warranty card, which makes it difficult to compare directly from AD because warranty does have monetary value.
John I really like the Laureato. What’s the best year to look for so that I’m taking advantage of the depreciation curve? I’m buying because I like the watch and history but yet don’t want one that continues to drop after I buy it. Or is this the wrong watch? VC better in that regard. I do like the 1956.
Nice topic JP. Now that we know who is tanking in the second market explain how they stay in business? If VC is hurting so bad, why are they not drowning? Tag Heuer? No. Heuer! Yes.
Richemont owns them, they could take a loss if they wanted to.
Many Thanks John,
Peace From London. 👍👍
You get a 👍 for heightening your chair. Much better, John 'Master' P
Platform shoes. jk lol
I was gifted a Stauer at work last week. I like it...but I'm not sure what kind of reputation, good or bad, the brand has among watch lovers.
I’m a watch collector... I have a tag F1 as my tool watch... cost me 2k Australian I beat it up every day and I work in heavy industry “chemicals” you’d be amazed at what it can take...
I was scared that this list will include iwc and Panerai 😂
The internet has helped improve many aspects of society. However, as someone in their sixth decade, websites have not merely inflated but undeservingly been responsible for the grossly expensive price of numismatic coins, watches, and virtually every collectable one can think of.
Also, you mention the Far East market. How can anyone apart from an experienced expert tell the difference nowadays between so-called reproduction watches or fakes which have flooded the market. I would appreciate advice on this.
New subscriber. Thanks.
Tag Heuer Monaco is probably the exception.
It's a flawed premise since basically all watches (I know, there are rare exceptions) lose value. However, it's an interesting conversation nonetheless. VC shouldn't be on the list as I don't think the depreciation is nearly as bad as brands like Omega.
Just bought GP beauty with an in house movement for 3.5 k. Won’t sell. Looking to other GP’s. Happy happy they are undervalued. Love them on the front end....do not care about the back end
Value loss in large amounts in no particular order: Omega, any German watch, every Asian brand, hublot, Rolex except sports models, every Panerai, AP, Vacheron, breguet, JLC, movado, franck muller, montblanc, etc etc etc
Really enjoy this channel keep it up
I own a girard perreguex gp90 1994 gold/steel I purchased for 2,500 out the door.What’s the retail price?Original box and booklet.👍🏼
Yup as long as your getting these pieces at least 50% off retail it's not bad I guess. Most are probably only worth a third of their original retail price on the pre owned market..
The only brand that can get skyrockted in terms of market price is g-shock because it doesn’t even has a bit of gold on it but can get tripled in price although the functions of the watch is basic
I have tried GPs many times, but i don’t feel their quality at all. It feels just cheap to me.
Hi! Thank you for the useful video. What do you think about Breguet and A.Lange&Sohne watches? I am considering a 50 years birthday present for myself. Let me tell you first of all I do not expect “a Rolex level value hold” for those brands but which models of those two brands have potential on the long run in terms of value. Thanks in advance -Hakan
Why do people like Aquaracers so much? Why No love for the Carreras?
Dive watches are trendy
If there is a thing I don’t care about is the resale value... and that’s true for everything I ever bought... houses... cars... watches... etc...
Pierre-Andre Labeau> I read that rich people *only* care about resale value, and that is why they, and their future family, is/will continue to be rich 🤷♂️
gonnahavemesomefun I hope it makes them happy... I was and, since 2008, I became poor, handicapped and ill... (MS and Cancer) ... so IRDGAF about that resale value... but when I was, the crowd didn’t care either... The only thing that everybody should care about it... Do you like it? Will it give you pleasure?
... Wife.
Said no one ever 🤣
Pierre-Andre Labeau Look at it this way: instead of buying watches from these brands at retail prices, look them up in the used market and you may get really awesome deals!
I like the tag hauer aquaracer. I like it more that I got it for less than 1/3rd the price of it new.
I got the GP 42 MM infinity edition. Absolutely love the deep black dial !!!!!
I would like to see you review the Aragon Virtuoso with an ETA movement and a Invicta Grand Diver with a Meteorite dial and
Silleta sw 200 movement. Great video and thanks for sharing.
Timemachine Eddie they suck. You welcome
Do 1960’s Heuer chronographs (pre “TAG”) have any value in say 95% condition? Purchased in NOLA in 1969 @ Zales under the Brand name Baylor. They were also sold through JC Penny’s but under what brand name is unknown to me. I saw one on Dan Henry’s site but in very rough condition. Thanks! (Full mechanical 30 minute sub dial and the sweep is the standard chrograph functions and the sweep second is the other sub dial.........Runs well and had a full service last year.)
What makes investing in watches much less fun is short term speculation, when you buy it to sell after 3 yrs. But if you invest long term, you get to keep your money and enjoy the watches as well ☺👍 It's more of a commodity, watches are meant to hedge inflation rather than make money from it. I collect Rolex for the same reason why Warren Buffett likes the company 😊
The brands that are heavily discounted brand new in the gray market just means the watch brands are obscenely overpricing them.
ADs sell to gray and still have to make some money in the process. All this tells me is the crazy mark up these luxury brands are demanding despite lacking the required brand status and prestige.