One correction on the stipulation: the rule i had to follow was no direct units. Some spoilery comments: - I chose this map since sami is actually T1 here. No airport and mixed base felt like giving all the advantage to Sami. - I’m pretty sure I could have played this better but I felt super behind the whole game since I couldn’t counter the recons.
@@crimsonninja6995 I couldn’t really afford to play around it since I needed 2 mechs to counter each recon which actually made them inefficient in the matchup. And by the time I had enough mechs on the left thelast just pivoted all the recons to have a huge tempo and army advantage on the right. I suspect that if I had built more of an HQ defense I would have just lost the right bases instead.
Ahhh awesome, I was wondering about that. Since that didn't take medium tanks off the board, now that there is no directs other then mechs to hard targets makes a lot of sense. Certainly was a interesting experience, thanks for providing it. I guess as said the lack of tactical flexibilty (because mechs are slow) is the main downside. it's impossible to respond to developments quickly enough, despite having a considerable financial advantage for much of the match.
Hey Mangs! Thanks for reviewing! The plan was definitely 1. spam recons on the left to force mech buys. 2. pivot hard right with AA and Artillery 3. Win, and it puts sami is a tough spot right away. Even with her better capture abilities, recon harass will crush her economy, and arties just aren't good enough to push forward, so KMF was pretty much forced to answer as he did - for example, Sami's day 7, she had to retreat her capping infantry away from 6,11 due to the immense pressure of the double recon. Even after the right bases fell, Victory March was pretty spooky. We were playing with global league settings, so capture limit was in play at 27 - Day 11 onward it was just "don't die to VM". Lots of move planner to make sure Sami could only get to 26. GGs to kilmefirst! Very fun match to play.
I think the map design philosophy of AWBW completely undermines any value Mech/Art spam typically enjoys in cart. There are a few reasons for this off the top of my head: 1.) AWBW Maps are typically much larger than the "good" (i.e. actually symmetrical and gimmick-free) maps on cart. Compare this map to something like Metro Island from on-cart, for example. 2.) As a result of the above, income levels are typically much higher in AWBW compared with cart (this isn't even getting into "High Funds"), which allows both sides the opportunity to mass-buy Tanks/BC/AA (the so-called "Trinity"). On the "good" cart maps, typically the map is so devoid of properties that players don't really have the luxury of building these units in high quantities (assuming the maps even have airports in the first place lol). 3.) AWBW Maps typically employ a design where each player has one "strong" side and one "weak" side, which allows for a game flow where: i. The two players move out on the map, seize properties, jockey for position, etc. ("Capture Phase") ii. The two players race to have their "strong" side overwhelm the other player's "weak" side faster than their opponent can do the same. iii. Once ii is completed, the player will have bisected the map more cleanly, and the fight will continue until one player eventually overwhelms the other and someone either concedes or runs out of time (or the turn/capture limit is reached). All of this more or less invalidates Mech/Art play, as the style is simply too slow and inflexible to properly fight a war of maneuver with shifting priorities/objectives. Note that I'm referring specifically to the combination of the two units, not the units themselves, as Art at least still have value at a high level in certain situations. 4.) On Cart Maps, your HQ is typically behind all of your bases/properties/etc., in the very back of your "side" of the map. This further encourages Mech/Art play as there is no real way for an opponent to launch a rapid attack at a HQ. NOTE: This is not an attempt to defend on-cart maps (they suck lol). I'm more trying to rationalize/explain why Art/Mech spam is/was a popular thing to do on-cart back in the stone age of ~2003 while on present-day AWBW it does not work in any meaningful capacity against a skilled opponent.
Honestly, this is a necessary video, we always heard that mech spamming isn't effective in competitive, but we were never really told why so, some people(including myself) probably figured out because it was the movement, but still nice to see in pratice how mechs on their own can be pretty bad
No, it's kinda more like mechs only counter vehicles on offense, but on defense they're still infantry that are less cost effective. This speaks more to the defensive power of tanks than to the bad movement of mechs.
That was a fun match, interesting idea. Mechs have garbage movement, so the hope of the mech spam I suppose is your opponent slipping up and unwittingly sending his troops into their range. I was rooting for Sami to wage a guerilla war in the trees and mountains, but slippery adder outmaneuvered her.
@@Mangs1337 yes im alive it just i felt a bit forced and i felt my life stoped soo i stoped and lost all motivation im thinking of returning with another fe 6 but this time hard mode only swords and lilina and another fe game and then i wanna see how i feel about i was a teenager when i made my first video now i lived more and how the world works il try making videos if i can but this will always be a side thing that i like doing
Matches like this are so vital for enhancing our understanding of the game, and showing the nuances of tactics and strategy in general. The main insight gleaned here is that, even for a CO who has nothing but penalties for them, direct combat vehicles are absolutely crucial and practically carry gameplay. Secondary to that but still important is the study of Mechs themselves. Mechs are quietly the third most swingy unit in Advance Wars - second most being the semi-banned Stealth, and the most swingy being the absolutely-banned Black Bomb. The Stealth and BB are very similar units, being high-cost low-fuel fragile aeroplanes introduced in DS with very unusual, even unique gameplay abilities, so it isn't surprising that they're swingy and struggle to fit in the balance of the main game. But Mechs? They're *Unit No. 2* on the purchase menu, one of the most basic units players learn to use first in the game. Examine them closely and you can see they have many unique traits and trait-combos - the only footsoldier with a primary weapon for instance, the only ground unit that crosses all ground terrain at flat-out speed, the only unit with just 2 move etc. - but you equally can't blame the community for overlooking these details because they really *seem* so vanilla. Under normal circumstances, Sami's Mechs would allow her to easily stomp COs that are typically stronger such as Eagle and Hawke, but all you have to do is take away Tanks and force her to *rely* on the Mechs and they fall through. This was a test of the Mechs - not so much their peak strength as their *reliability*. The results are clear, Mechs have too many weaknesses to carry a game by themselves. A unit that can be extremely strong but typically isn't, is the definition of a swingy unit.
Fun match up! AWBW maps, and indeed almost any mirrored maps with bases spread out, are not conducive to mech spam. The maps in AW2 all have player bases clumped in an area so that opponents must march toward the mechs.
Great video, really fun as always. Gotta say as someone whos just a casual player and watches other game content, you do an amazing job in the intro before the game starts to set everything up. Truly, its great, I get all the info I need, can check the COs info, you talk about the map, its fantastic. Really helpful for less knowledge people like me.
I mean, Mechs are CONSIDERABLY worse on Mixed Base. Those are maps that WHOLLY revolve around front-shifting. So, naturally, they got rolled. Anyone with any experience would know that. Like, they're not good, in general. Their movement is just too low... But that just made it considerably worse. Like, Sami MIGHT be able to make it work, but that requires a whole lot of mistakes on the other CO's side. Not to mention, with how long Victory March takes to charge? Just, nah.
I mean, we are talking about High ranking players and what-not, anything is possible. I literaly watched a Hachi - Jugger match and Jugger won, AWBW is weird sometimes haha.
@@haveyoutakenyourjoymygoods943 My headcanon is that it was out of respect, Hachi player decided he was fated to lose at that point. The day being 13 was a sign. 😂 Anyway, thanks for the story!
Cool test match, Kilmefirst was looking pretty scary after a few turns of building mechs, but then thelast just shifted everything and went for the kill. Of course this was mixed base, but other methods of dealing with mechspam are either teching up, or luring the mechs in so you can smack them with all of your fast vehicles.
I think Kilmefirst's turn 9 defense of the base is a bit weird. In particular placing a mech right below the base. It's begging for the antiair to lock the base while killing it 100% free. Placing it one tile to the right would have allowed it not to be attacked and to be in position to free the base next turn. Then I do not see the point of moving the mech from the HQ to two tiles below in the forest, just to be first struck by an infantry. It seems much better to leave it on the HQ, ready to defend the base, or eventually strike the artillery with COP. I also think a mech should have been built instead of a second artillery on the other base, as to 1) built a unit that can attack next turn without blocking the base 2) retaliate if that recon attacks 3) reach the base with COP to help dislodge whatever is on it if necessary 4) save 3k. I also wonder if it was the right choice to use the mech in the south to kill the 9HP recon in the corner, instead of the one attacking the base. Particularly if the plan was to build a second artillery. If the base survives, I think it is then an easy win for Sami by continuing mech spam and building a battleship asap. The 8HP artillery lock on the base is not very bad. Deals 5 damage > mech heals 2 > 7 HP mech in range of attacking the artillery on build.
i think mech spam really needs like 4-5 bases to have a chance of working. gives the mechs spam a lot quicker speed to hitting that critical mass to really be oppressive.
Should have made it clearer if it was the unit called “tank” that was prohibited or if it was all kinds of tanks (tank, medium tank, neotank, megatank) that couldn't be built.
The negatives aren't really that bad and doesn't affect unit counters so she should still be played as normal due to low movement of infantry and how vulnerable they are to AA and indirects on their own.
@@zerg-rush5797solution: fling infantry at them until they run out of ammo (but like seriously tho it’s surprisingly easy to trade infantry out with AA, they’re mildly expensive/low armor, and a damaged one can’t wipe units)
My guess on "how this goes" is that Adder can just make some artillery and use early game infantry to zone out and stall on one side while using the ability to send the fruits of all his factories with much more mobile units to the other and lock out a base early. (Spoiler below for how it went)... . . . . . . Edit: Was right about the rush onto a base via faster units part, but it was recons over arty and I didn't consider that the natural base to focus on immediately threatened an HQ.
I think with Mechs low movement they are much more valuable in FoW where they sneak up, hide in forests and ambush. When everyone can see everything they lose a lot of their punch.
tbf no tank on caustic is probably unwinnable for anyone, assuming somewhat similar skill levels. On a map with an airport sensei can pull off no tanks, but i'd guess even sensei would struggle here against adder with tanks. Btw, there's currently a demo on steam for a game called "those who rule", which is basically fire emblem but with hexagons and some neat mechanics(e.g. greatsword area attacks and block mechanic for shields), you might wanna check that out.
I think mech spam being annoying mostly boils down to the questionable design decisions of the ADVW multiplayer maps and campaign It was never strong, but it was stall-y, expensive to deal with, and usually couldn't possibly result in a win Especially the way the AI tend to go about it lol, so it just "feels bad" to play against
2:11 'Before you watch this replay, who do you think is going to win?' Well, given that the replay lasts less than 15 minutes, probably not the spammy player.
I honestly think there's no way to win without tanks, maybe if you play as Hachi since he can tech up stupidly fast. Without tanks you have no way of parrying a quick rushdown like this, footsoldiers will get eaten alive by AA and your indirects have no defense and nothing to effectively guard them from opposing tanks. Even if this map had airports and you could build B Copters, that would help, but again AA is already strong since it eats up your infantry for free so it can guard the tanks too. And your opponent can just outproduce. Boots on the ground capturing wins every battle but tanks are the core of offense and defense that makes it possible.
the problem with mechs is they are very easy to kill and lack mobility compared to the defense of some of the non tank units like anti air and mechs are better when they have a juicy target to defend when advancing since any tank or anti air engagement can be retaliated with a nearby mech on the target. the fact the sami player was unable to build tanks to defensively hold places like the bridges without ever attacking with tanks or anti air with no anti air to counter recons aggression meant they were going to suffer any time you have to hold a point and mixed base maps are full of those with the front switching and this is even before medium and eventually megatanks ever got play if megatanks ever got into play and i know the opponent cannot retaliate with tanks of their own its effectively gg. it was nice to watch though thanks mangs and god job killmefirst and the last for a interesting game regardless of the result^^
Even if Sami used an APC to block the HQ capture, the invading army will overwhelm the defense on HQ, and once they have a foothold, they will divert at blocking the incoming reinforcements.
I expected to see 3 artillery units by day 11 since Sami needs recons or tanks to deal with those and her mechs are just too slow to deal with indirects. Does mech spam become harder to counter in fog plus random weather or does it not matter? I think in this particular matchup with this particular map, it would mean sometimes the Adder player pops his power and hits a great target but not the best target since the target is out of range. After all when your tanks move 7 spaces, it is more likely you found a target 1 to 6 tiles away than one 7 tiles away, but that has little to do with the overall question.
Spamming any specific unit is a bad idea, but it doesn't make mechs a bad unit. I would have liked to witness sami use some recons of her own to fight off the opponents. It wouldn't have countered, but it would have defended very well. Infantry/mechs are the structure of a position. Every other option is just support. Adding in tactical awareness. I couldn't speak about the mechanics and how balanced they are, but that is the general idea behind the design.
So, gonna throw it out there. No competitive Sami is going to forego tanks because they are a very necessary early game defense for her infantry and mechs. This isn't an accurate metric of mech spam. Nor is this an actually fair fight regardless. I knew the moment I heard: "Sami isn't allowed to build tanks" that she could be facing a Flak rated 500 less and still lose.
Well now wait a minute. "Mech Spam" is not even CLOSE to the same thing as "can't build any tanks". While this is pretty interesting, and cool even, it's not accurate. It's not a real test.
The whole point of mech spam is that mechs costs 3000 and Tanks costs 7000. If you can't build any direct unit at all and are forced to spend the excess money on a battleship, the only thing we learned was that one mech is stronger than one tank . More realistic mech spam rule would be that you are forced to build at least one mech every turn after day 4 or something. I am not saying that mech spam is a good strategy at all, but it is too much of a handicap.
I've never played any Advance Wars games but I'm guessing it's a literal skill issue here. As in if someone is very skilled, they would probably think Sami is broken?
Also, what an appropriate match; Kilmefirst vs thelast I guess the thelast was indeed the last survivor and kilmefirst, you get it... ... come'n, someone had to point it out!
Ok. Now I finished the video. Classic AI. It's losing a war, so it decides to attack a softer target. Hive attacks Morgan and Morgan attacks you. 😂😂😂 One more thing. You have been underpaying, so you save sime credits. When you have lots of money you can overpay. Then you get extra shields for next project. And next turn you can buy a new unit at normal price instead of douple price.
This is nice and all mangs, but it feels pretty unrealistic... Sami's opponent obviously knew from the get-go Sami was not allowed to build any tank. No one build that amount of recon this early without that kind of knowledge. One of the main strengh of Sami's mex is how cost effective they are against tanks... Great idea, but overall bad execution...
One correction on the stipulation: the rule i had to follow was no direct units. Some spoilery comments:
- I chose this map since sami is actually T1 here. No airport and mixed base felt like giving all the advantage to Sami.
- I’m pretty sure I could have played this better but I felt super behind the whole game since I couldn’t counter the recons.
Did you know ahead of time thelast was going to push your HQ? Is there any way to defend the right side with this strat?
@@crimsonninja6995 I couldn’t really afford to play around it since I needed 2 mechs to counter each recon which actually made them inefficient in the matchup. And by the time I had enough mechs on the left thelast just pivoted all the recons to have a huge tempo and army advantage on the right. I suspect that if I had built more of an HQ defense I would have just lost the right bases instead.
Ahhh awesome, I was wondering about that. Since that didn't take medium tanks off the board, now that there is no directs other then mechs to hard targets makes a lot of sense.
Certainly was a interesting experience, thanks for providing it. I guess as said the lack of tactical flexibilty (because mechs are slow) is the main downside. it's impossible to respond to developments quickly enough, despite having a considerable financial advantage for much of the match.
Hey Mangs! Thanks for reviewing!
The plan was definitely 1. spam recons on the left to force mech buys. 2. pivot hard right with AA and Artillery 3. Win, and it puts sami is a tough spot right away. Even with her better capture abilities, recon harass will crush her economy, and arties just aren't good enough to push forward, so KMF was pretty much forced to answer as he did - for example, Sami's day 7, she had to retreat her capping infantry away from 6,11 due to the immense pressure of the double recon.
Even after the right bases fell, Victory March was pretty spooky. We were playing with global league settings, so capture limit was in play at 27 - Day 11 onward it was just "don't die to VM". Lots of move planner to make sure Sami could only get to 26.
GGs to kilmefirst! Very fun match to play.
I think the map design philosophy of AWBW completely undermines any value Mech/Art spam typically enjoys in cart. There are a few reasons for this off the top of my head:
1.) AWBW Maps are typically much larger than the "good" (i.e. actually symmetrical and gimmick-free) maps on cart. Compare this map to something like Metro Island from on-cart, for example.
2.) As a result of the above, income levels are typically much higher in AWBW compared with cart (this isn't even getting into "High Funds"), which allows both sides the opportunity to mass-buy Tanks/BC/AA (the so-called "Trinity"). On the "good" cart maps, typically the map is so devoid of properties that players don't really have the luxury of building these units in high quantities (assuming the maps even have airports in the first place lol).
3.) AWBW Maps typically employ a design where each player has one "strong" side and one "weak" side, which allows for a game flow where:
i. The two players move out on the map, seize properties, jockey for position, etc. ("Capture Phase")
ii. The two players race to have their "strong" side overwhelm the other player's "weak" side faster than their opponent can do the same.
iii. Once ii is completed, the player will have bisected the map more cleanly, and the fight will continue until one player eventually overwhelms the other and someone either concedes or runs out of time (or the turn/capture limit is reached).
All of this more or less invalidates Mech/Art play, as the style is simply too slow and inflexible to properly fight a war of maneuver with shifting priorities/objectives. Note that I'm referring specifically to the combination of the two units, not the units themselves, as Art at least still have value at a high level in certain situations.
4.) On Cart Maps, your HQ is typically behind all of your bases/properties/etc., in the very back of your "side" of the map. This further encourages Mech/Art play as there is no real way for an opponent to launch a rapid attack at a HQ.
NOTE: This is not an attempt to defend on-cart maps (they suck lol). I'm more trying to rationalize/explain why Art/Mech spam is/was a popular thing to do on-cart back in the stone age of ~2003 while on present-day AWBW it does not work in any meaningful capacity against a skilled opponent.
Honestly, this is a necessary video, we always heard that mech spamming isn't effective in competitive, but we were never really told why so, some people(including myself) probably figured out because it was the movement, but still nice to see in pratice how mechs on their own can be pretty bad
No, it's kinda more like mechs only counter vehicles on offense, but on defense they're still infantry that are less cost effective. This speaks more to the defensive power of tanks than to the bad movement of mechs.
yoooo It's the brazillian guy. Just wanted to randomly show up and say hi to the brazillian guy
@@lspuria8440 oh hi there, random citzen o7
That was a fun match, interesting idea. Mechs have garbage movement, so the hope of the mech spam I suppose is your opponent slipping up and unwittingly sending his troops into their range.
I was rooting for Sami to wage a guerilla war in the trees and mountains, but slippery adder outmaneuvered her.
lmao. Even without playing Advance Wars I've heard of the legendary Sami mech spam. Can't wait to see how this'll play out.
Never been interested in these kind of game but this was interesting
RISTO! YOU'RE ALIVE!
@@Mangs1337RISTO IS ALIVE
@@Mangs1337 yes im alive it just i felt a bit forced and i felt my life stoped soo i stoped and lost all motivation im thinking of returning with another fe 6 but this time hard mode only swords and lilina and another fe game and then i wanna see how i feel about i was a teenager when i made my first video now i lived more and how the world works il try making videos if i can but this will always be a side thing that i like doing
RISTO! ᐠ( ᐛ )ᐟ
It's a tankless job but someone had to do it.
Matches like this are so vital for enhancing our understanding of the game, and showing the nuances of tactics and strategy in general. The main insight gleaned here is that, even for a CO who has nothing but penalties for them, direct combat vehicles are absolutely crucial and practically carry gameplay.
Secondary to that but still important is the study of Mechs themselves. Mechs are quietly the third most swingy unit in Advance Wars - second most being the semi-banned Stealth, and the most swingy being the absolutely-banned Black Bomb. The Stealth and BB are very similar units, being high-cost low-fuel fragile aeroplanes introduced in DS with very unusual, even unique gameplay abilities, so it isn't surprising that they're swingy and struggle to fit in the balance of the main game.
But Mechs? They're *Unit No. 2* on the purchase menu, one of the most basic units players learn to use first in the game. Examine them closely and you can see they have many unique traits and trait-combos - the only footsoldier with a primary weapon for instance, the only ground unit that crosses all ground terrain at flat-out speed, the only unit with just 2 move etc. - but you equally can't blame the community for overlooking these details because they really *seem* so vanilla.
Under normal circumstances, Sami's Mechs would allow her to easily stomp COs that are typically stronger such as Eagle and Hawke, but all you have to do is take away Tanks and force her to *rely* on the Mechs and they fall through. This was a test of the Mechs - not so much their peak strength as their *reliability*. The results are clear, Mechs have too many weaknesses to carry a game by themselves. A unit that can be extremely strong but typically isn't, is the definition of a swingy unit.
Even if they are worse than other COs first strike tends to even things out.
Fun match up! AWBW maps, and indeed almost any mirrored maps with bases spread out, are not conducive to mech spam. The maps in AW2 all have player bases clumped in an area so that opponents must march toward the mechs.
Great video, really fun as always.
Gotta say as someone whos just a casual player and watches other game content, you do an amazing job in the intro before the game starts to set everything up. Truly, its great, I get all the info I need, can check the COs info, you talk about the map, its fantastic. Really helpful for less knowledge people like me.
Armpit bros, that thumbnail was made for us
Came for the armpit, stayed for the egg
I mean, Mechs are CONSIDERABLY worse on Mixed Base. Those are maps that WHOLLY revolve around front-shifting. So, naturally, they got rolled. Anyone with any experience would know that. Like, they're not good, in general. Their movement is just too low... But that just made it considerably worse. Like, Sami MIGHT be able to make it work, but that requires a whole lot of mistakes on the other CO's side. Not to mention, with how long Victory March takes to charge? Just, nah.
Don't listen to the egg, he's just coping for losing as a kid. He's still a noob, but at least he's grown up.
I mean, we are talking about High ranking players and what-not, anything is possible. I literaly watched a Hachi - Jugger match and Jugger won, AWBW is weird sometimes haha.
How did that happen?!
@@borderlinebear5509 if I remember right Jugger was really lucky that match and hachi just left day 13, no Idea why, but a win is a win.
@@haveyoutakenyourjoymygoods943 My headcanon is that it was out of respect, Hachi player decided he was fated to lose at that point. The day being 13 was a sign. 😂
Anyway, thanks for the story!
Cool test match, Kilmefirst was looking pretty scary after a few turns of building mechs, but then thelast just shifted everything and went for the kill. Of course this was mixed base, but other methods of dealing with mechspam are either teching up, or luring the mechs in so you can smack them with all of your fast vehicles.
I think it's funny that the sami player only just figured out at the end of the game that they should be using APCs
Keep the AW content comming Mangs!!
I think Kilmefirst's turn 9 defense of the base is a bit weird. In particular placing a mech right below the base. It's begging for the antiair to lock the base while killing it 100% free. Placing it one tile to the right would have allowed it not to be attacked and to be in position to free the base next turn. Then I do not see the point of moving the mech from the HQ to two tiles below in the forest, just to be first struck by an infantry. It seems much better to leave it on the HQ, ready to defend the base, or eventually strike the artillery with COP. I also think a mech should have been built instead of a second artillery on the other base, as to 1) built a unit that can attack next turn without blocking the base 2) retaliate if that recon attacks 3) reach the base with COP to help dislodge whatever is on it if necessary 4) save 3k. I also wonder if it was the right choice to use the mech in the south to kill the 9HP recon in the corner, instead of the one attacking the base. Particularly if the plan was to build a second artillery.
If the base survives, I think it is then an easy win for Sami by continuing mech spam and building a battleship asap. The 8HP artillery lock on the base is not very bad. Deals 5 damage > mech heals 2 > 7 HP mech in range of attacking the artillery on build.
arm pit thumbnail? take my view.
Anti-Airs are definitely hard to deal with for Sami if not using Tanks...
0:20 it's me
Basically how I saw it going. Good show on the players though, it's fun to try scenarios out.
0:27 "He just spams Mexicans until you lose" 💀
Your comment happened to be featured by the app as he said it, so I couldn’t *not* hear it xD
He just spams mechs against you until you lose.
i think mech spam really needs like 4-5 bases to have a chance of working. gives the mechs spam a lot quicker speed to hitting that critical mass to really be oppressive.
Should have made it clearer if it was the unit called “tank” that was prohibited or if it was all kinds of tanks (tank, medium tank, neotank, megatank) that couldn't be built.
Man, I love these kinds of challenge videos!
Well if sami using combo transport + mech... It will be more strong than tank in small map
It's nice to see "overpowered" strategies actually have counters
General Fai be like "What's a tank? Is that some sort of troop crawler? Can my infantry fire out from it?"
I'd love to point out the Hollow Knight reference in thelast's bio. I greatly appreciate it
Alas, Grey Prince Zote's greatness cannot be fully captured by the 300 character limit on signatures :(
Ohhhh, that’s what it was! Well spotted.
I was trying to work out if it was an acrostic message or something…
Sami without Tanks doesn't really seem like that crazy of an idea considering her Passives...
The negatives aren't really that bad and doesn't affect unit counters so she should still be played as normal due to low movement of infantry and how vulnerable they are to AA and indirects on their own.
You need a proper counter to Anti-air and recons...without tanks you have neither
@@zerg-rush5797solution: fling infantry at them until they run out of ammo (but like seriously tho it’s surprisingly easy to trade infantry out with AA, they’re mildly expensive/low armor, and a damaged one can’t wipe units)
My guess on "how this goes" is that Adder can just make some artillery and use early game infantry to zone out and stall on one side while using the ability to send the fruits of all his factories with much more mobile units to the other and lock out a base early. (Spoiler below for how it went)...
.
.
.
.
.
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Edit: Was right about the rush onto a base via faster units part, but it was recons over arty and I didn't consider that the natural base to focus on immediately threatened an HQ.
I think with Mechs low movement they are much more valuable in FoW where they sneak up, hide in forests and ambush.
When everyone can see everything they lose a lot of their punch.
Sammi is the opposite, fog nerfs her super power and traps can deny captures
@@denverwingchun9852 I said nothing about Sami, just MECHS.
my precious AWBW content, yes
I love running Sami, she is def my main but i use alot of transports and still run tanks with my mech and infantry.
No tanks in mixed base is a death sentence. The opponent gets to connect their bases easily while you're forced to play defensive on both fronts.
I got my hopes up when I saw the battleship, only for slippery Addler to outmaneuver
tbf no tank on caustic is probably unwinnable for anyone, assuming somewhat similar skill levels. On a map with an airport sensei can pull off no tanks, but i'd guess even sensei would struggle here against adder with tanks.
Btw, there's currently a demo on steam for a game called "those who rule", which is basically fire emblem but with hexagons and some neat mechanics(e.g. greatsword area attacks and block mechanic for shields), you might wanna check that out.
Side note, I just now realized that the reason why some mountains are shorter than others is because they are in front of cities. 😂
this is actually how i always play with sami
I feel like the sami player didn't play all that well tbh. It didn't prove or disprove the concept.
ya he already lost when Adder on his base
omg advance wars!
I think mech spam being annoying mostly boils down to the questionable design decisions of the ADVW multiplayer maps and campaign
It was never strong, but it was stall-y, expensive to deal with, and usually couldn't possibly result in a win
Especially the way the AI tend to go about it lol, so it just "feels bad" to play against
2:11 'Before you watch this replay, who do you think is going to win?'
Well, given that the replay lasts less than 15 minutes, probably not the spammy player.
I haven't been exactly keeping up with the replays completely. Any reasons he's not using the replay viewer anymore?
I honestly think there's no way to win without tanks, maybe if you play as Hachi since he can tech up stupidly fast. Without tanks you have no way of parrying a quick rushdown like this, footsoldiers will get eaten alive by AA and your indirects have no defense and nothing to effectively guard them from opposing tanks. Even if this map had airports and you could build B Copters, that would help, but again AA is already strong since it eats up your infantry for free so it can guard the tanks too. And your opponent can just outproduce. Boots on the ground capturing wins every battle but tanks are the core of offense and defense that makes it possible.
the problem with mechs is they are very easy to kill and lack mobility compared to the defense of some of the non tank units like anti air and mechs are better when they have a juicy target to defend when advancing since any tank or anti air engagement can be retaliated with a nearby mech on the target.
the fact the sami player was unable to build tanks to defensively hold places like the bridges without ever attacking with tanks or anti air with no anti air to counter recons aggression meant they were going to suffer any time you have to hold a point and mixed base maps are full of those with the front switching and this is even before medium and eventually megatanks ever got play if megatanks ever got into play and i know the opponent cannot retaliate with tanks of their own its effectively gg.
it was nice to watch though thanks mangs and god job killmefirst and the last for a interesting game regardless of the result^^
It will be nice same experiment but in a normal map not a mix base.
“Guys wait for meeeeee! I have little legs”
🥚
Oh I'm so into this!
Even if Sami used an APC to block the HQ capture, the invading army will overwhelm the defense on HQ, and once they have a foothold, they will divert at blocking the incoming reinforcements.
Sami has been eating good this month.
Were you ever able to do the unit analysis video on black boats?
I expected to see 3 artillery units by day 11 since Sami needs recons or tanks to deal with those and her mechs are just too slow to deal with indirects. Does mech spam become harder to counter in fog plus random weather or does it not matter? I think in this particular matchup with this particular map, it would mean sometimes the Adder player pops his power and hits a great target but not the best target since the target is out of range. After all when your tanks move 7 spaces, it is more likely you found a target 1 to 6 tiles away than one 7 tiles away, but that has little to do with the overall question.
Mangs made me buy the advance wars reboot
I apologize.
Not perfect bjt not horrible either
spann island mechs only gg
Spamming any specific unit is a bad idea, but it doesn't make mechs a bad unit. I would have liked to witness sami use some recons of her own to fight off the opponents. It wouldn't have countered, but it would have defended very well.
Infantry/mechs are the structure of a position. Every other option is just support. Adding in tactical awareness. I couldn't speak about the mechanics and how balanced they are, but that is the general idea behind the design.
My guess is apcs to get around how squishy infantry is against AA, against indirects would still be bad.
Hmmm. I wonder if Sami without small tanks would have won (allowing the tech ups).
Man I was really rooting for Sami but yeah, no tanks is too much for her
Why did you put a recon in the thumbnail?
So, gonna throw it out there. No competitive Sami is going to forego tanks because they are a very necessary early game defense for her infantry and mechs. This isn't an accurate metric of mech spam. Nor is this an actually fair fight regardless. I knew the moment I heard: "Sami isn't allowed to build tanks" that she could be facing a Flak rated 500 less and still lose.
I though it was a advance wars challenge video
Maybe in the future, we'll have balanced anti-airs that aren't one trick ponies against infantry.
Well now wait a minute. "Mech Spam" is not even CLOSE to the same thing as "can't build any tanks". While this is pretty interesting, and cool even, it's not accurate. It's not a real test.
The whole point of mech spam is that mechs costs 3000 and Tanks costs 7000. If you can't build any direct unit at all and are forced to spend the excess money on a battleship, the only thing we learned was that one mech is stronger than one tank . More realistic mech spam rule would be that you are forced to build at least one mech every turn after day 4 or something. I am not saying that mech spam is a good strategy at all, but it is too much of a handicap.
Battle Analysis time
Frankly i think this was not a proper test of mech spam. Not all maps was suitable for this strat.
Bruh, does Sami ever win? I still dont understand why she's tier 2. So incredibly hard to play and not worth picking imo.
I've never played any Advance Wars games but I'm guessing it's a literal skill issue here.
As in if someone is very skilled, they would probably think Sami is broken?
Mech spam and no OperationMechstorm in it!? The blasphemy!
Also, what an appropriate match; Kilmefirst vs thelast
I guess the thelast was indeed the last survivor and kilmefirst, you get it...
...
come'n, someone had to point it out!
Sami waki pero pero
Nice❤
Fuggin love sami
Imma guess mechspam is countered by infantry + rockets.
how do I play this game online?Is it on steam or through nintendo switch?
Hi. Im that Sami simp that spammed mechs and forced you to get good
Sami couldn't Spami.
Peter I told you mechspam is a bad strategy
Ok. Now I finished the video. Classic AI. It's losing a war, so it decides to attack a softer target. Hive attacks Morgan and Morgan attacks you. 😂😂😂
One more thing. You have been underpaying, so you save sime credits. When you have lots of money you can overpay. Then you get extra shields for next project. And next turn you can buy a new unit at normal price instead of douple price.
This is nice and all mangs, but it feels pretty unrealistic...
Sami's opponent obviously knew from the get-go Sami was not allowed to build any tank. No one build that amount of recon this early without that kind of knowledge. One of the main strengh of Sami's mex is how cost effective they are against tanks...
Great idea, but overall bad execution...
I always play Sami without tanks and I win most of the time xD.
armpits spotted
Can Sami win without tanks? .... No. Based on this sample size of 1. :P
Saw this at 3 minutes and I'm not even first smh
But I love tanks...
ermm spam infantry??
Nive
Not gonna lie, the stipulation of no tanks made me close the video. Seems disingenuous.
I think you failed to understand what this video was about.
Not allowing a core unit that is highly influential isn't the same thing as countering mech spam bro.
@calvin8857 The rules was made this way to prove a point.