I Play Left-Handed to get FREE RELIEF from Cart Path and Tree | Golf Rules Explained
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- In this video, I explain a little known golf rule that can save you big time. Due to an obstruction from the tree, I decide to play left-handed. As a result, I am now standing on the cart path (an abnormal course condition) and the golf rules allow me to get free relief. This drastically changes the outcome of the hole!
🔴 SUBSCRIBE TO LEARN MORE GOLF RULES: / @jayrobertsgolf
🎓 LEARN MORE GOLF RULES 👇:
⛳️ Movable Obstructions Part 1: • Movable Obstructions i...
⛳️ Movable Obstructions Part 2: • My Ball Came to Rest O...
⛳️ I Marked the Wrong Ball on the Putting Green: • I Marked the Wrong Bal...
⛳️ I Missed a Putt that was Conceded. Does it count?: • I missed a short putt ...
⛳️ How to Properly Mark a Ball Before Lifting It: • How and WHERE to Prope...
⛳️ Can you fix/repair a pitch mark on the fringe/off the green?: • Can you fix/repair a p...
⛳️ I Accidentally Move my Ball on the Putting Green: • I accidentally move my...
📖 RULE 16.1b Relief for Ball in General Area
If a player’s ball is in the general area and there is interference by an abnormal course condition on the course, the player may take free relief by dropping the original ball or another ball in this relief area (see Rule 14.3):
Reference Point: The nearest point of complete relief in the general area.
Size of Relief Area Measured from Reference Point: One club-length, but with these limits:
Limits on Location of Relief Area:
-- Must be in the general area,
-- Must not be nearer the hole than the reference point, and
-- There must be complete relief from all interference by the abnormal course condition.
📖 RULE 16.1a(3)/1 Obstruction Interfering with Abnormal Stroke May Not Preclude Player From Taking Relief
In some situations a player may have to adopt an abnormal swing, stance or direction of play in playing his or her ball to accommodate a given situation. If the abnormal stroke is not clearly unreasonable given the circumstances, the player is permitted to take free relief under Rule 16.1.
For example, in the general area, a right-handed player’s ball is so close to a boundary object on the left side of a hole that he or she must make a left-handed swing to play towards the hole. In making the left-handed swing, the player’s stance is interfered with by an immovable obstruction.
The player is allowed relief from the immovable obstruction since use of a left-handed swing is not clearly unreasonable in the circumstances.
After the relief procedure for the left-handed swing is complete, the player may then use a normal right-handed swing for the next stroke. If the obstruction interferes with the right-handed swing, the player may take relief for the right-handed swing under Rule 16.1b or play the ball as it lies.
📖 RULE 16.1a(3)/2 - Player May Not Use Clearly Unreasonable Stroke to Get Relief from Condition
A player may not use a clearly unreasonable stroke to get relief from an abnormal course condition. If the player’s stroke is clearly unreasonable given the circumstances, relief under Rule 16.1 is not allowed, and he or she must either play the ball as it lies or take unplayable ball relief.
For example, in the general area, a right-handed player’s ball is in a bad lie. A nearby immovable obstruction would not interfere with the player’s normal right-handed stroke, but would interfere with a left-handed stroke. The player states that he or she is going to make the next stroke left-handed and believes that, since the obstruction would interfere with such a stroke, Rule 16.1b allows relief.
However, since the only reason for the player to use a left-handed stroke is to escape a bad lie by taking relief, use of the left-handed stroke is clearly unreasonable and the player is not allowed to take relief under Rule 16.1b (Rule 16.1a(3)).
The same principles would apply to the use of a clearly unreasonable stance, direction of play or the choice of a club.
#golf #golfrules #golfrulesexplained #cartpath #freerelief
Similar scenarios happened to me a few times while playing on Tour, but this exact scenario arose for me while I was playing in the China Open back in 03, my playing partners didnt agree with me asking for relief so we called for a rules official who promptly agreed and gave me relief under the rules. I could break 80 left handed, so yes, hitting it left handed is reasonable considering the position of the ball, thus the drop is reasonable. I knocked it on the green and made par, then birdied the next hole (72nd) to finish T10.
Knowing the rules well isn't just a good idea, its necessary if you're a serious golfer.
That's awesome. It's a perfect example of how knowing the rules can protect your card. Thanks for sharing that story. You knew a rule that the other players didn't and it lead to a stellar Top 10 finish on Tour. Well done!!!
You are an unusual and reasonable exception but if you don’t have a left handed club in your bag certainly you cannot get relief! If the rules are so easy and everyone should know them why are pros constantly asking for rulings. The rules are complex. For a casual golfer the rules can be mind bending lay complex especially if you are trying to keep the game moving it can get ridiculous!
@@bubbafatas2588
I beg to differ, on several accounts.
There are many Tour players out there who are quite competent at the opposite hand, Im not on my own there, many others, like myself, regularly hit balls the opposite hand. I must also say that I know loads of amateurs who can hit the ball the opposite hand, too.
I can hit the ball left handed with a flipped RH iron up to about 170m (when hit well), so relief is most certainly reasonable under the conditions in this video and as I mentioned in my comment.
I never claimed the rules to be "easy", just that its a must for all serious golfers to know as many as they can, and its immensely beneficial to everyone on the course if most players know the basics.
When a Tour player calls for a ruling its normally to verify what they already think and to dispel doubt from anyone else, but I did come across quite a few people who had little to no idea about anything but the most basic rules, they didnt last long on Tour.
Information is power, power over yourself and others, use the power for good 💪👍
@@marcusbergen9802
So you think that I, and many other players over the years have "fooled the rules officials" into giving us drops?
Your comment is not only factually wrong, but damned insulting.
@@marcusbergen9802
LOL, I did nt get emotional, nor did I argue with you.
The "reasonable" part of the rules has nothing to do with "percentages", it has to do with a person taking a reasonable stance and swing with the club that they would use to play that shot from that specific position, which is reasonable for that player in that situation, and each ruling is judged based on the specific details relative to that person and known variables, ie; it would be unreasonable if the path was 2-3 feet further away and I pulled out my driver (longest club) and I claimed that was the shot I would play, just so the path would interfere with my stance.
No rules official has ever asked me about percentages, ever, and neither the rules book or the decisions of the rules of golf, as far as I know, mentions percentages, so the premise of your hypothetical seems to be erroneous at best.
Moreover, your hypothetical also seems to be based on your inability to hit the ball LH in that situation, it does not take into account my, or someone else's ability to competently do so. Your lack of ability to control the ball in that situation has no bearing on me in the same situation. If you can not hit that shot then it would be unreasonable to claim that you could, but I could hit that shot, so it is by definition; reasonable.
If it was ankle high rough and I had to hit it 150+ over water, which would be tough shot for a short iron, I would totally agree, a LH shot would be unreasonable, but in this situation, and the one I mentioned above, it was an easy shot to play, no water, trees, or long rough to worry about, and the fact that I had practiced such shots many times over the years with good success, totally negates your whole argument.
Your argument seems to boil down to; well I couldn't do it so therefore its "unreasonable", and,
I think it would be a very low percentage shot for most people therefore its "unreasonable".
Both of which are totally irrelevant to me, and a lot of other people I know, not to mention the rules of golf itself.
If you wish to find out more info from the horses mouth, so to speak, send a mail to one of these guys:
David Parkin @ AsianTour
Stephen Cox or Ken Tackett @ PGATour
OR contact the R&A through their website directly.
nice tip! would have thought you had to take the stroke as a lefty too even after moving
0:31 I'm gonna run the risk of injury... or even breaking my club... gotta love a guy with his priorities straight!
I can hear my playing partners rolling their eyes when I try explaining this one...I think I'll save 5 minutes and hit it best I can. Was a good explanation for competition play.
I can totally see that. The good news though is that you don't need to get approval from anyone in your group to operate under a Rule. They may not agree with it and if they really have a problem with it, they are free to tell the Committee before you turn your card in. R. 20.1c(2). Or, you could appease them by playing two balls when uncertain what to do and report to the Committee afterward for a ruling. The point is, you shouldn't settle for a worse shot/score because the people in your group don't know the Rule. Just my humble thoughts aimed to help!
Why not use the rules to your advantage? your playing partners, and your marker for that matter, are not rules officials and do not have the authority to prevent you from using the rules to your advantage. If you know the rules better than they do, it's their loss and your gain. If you are in doubt that what you are doing is against the rules you can always (in stroke play) go on by rule 20.1c and play a second ball, mark down both scores and let the committee decide which ball was counting.
@@Ruinsthename as I said a year ago this was good for competitive golf.. my three partners could care less about my score how or how I hit the ball.. and I could care less about their score... 😅
@@JayRobertsGolfspot on, the old saying ignorance of the law is no excuse, so knowing the laws means you can use them accordingly. It is not your responsibility to educate playing partners as to all the rules and options available.
Rugby has similar situations where upon an infringment the referee asks the opposition captain what does he want to do the captain can pick what is best for his team if he knows the rules and options
@@davejohn255 then why would they be rolling their eyes, if they don’t care about your score? You can’t have it both ways.
I used this in a tournament on the 18th hole. My opponent said it wasn’t legal. I said it was and played the shot both ways and took it to committee. They came out to the spot and asked if I played the shot left handed and I said yes. I chipped out and made a bogey. Then I took my relief and made a par with my relief. They said it was correct and I won the tournament. 🎉
A hollow victory as you cheated.
Bro what?! Never knew this 🤯
Love your stuff man! You are going to save so many people so many unnecessary strokes! Thank you
Appreciate you my guy! That's the goal!! Protect scorecards!!! Stay tuned, got a few on the way :)
@@JayRobertsGolf I'll be waiting! 🤘
Good stuff Jay, important add on there at the end about unreasonable relief given I know Chris will try to invoke this at some stage incorrectly.
He was one of the few I knew I had to include that for lol
Great video Jay. I knew there was something in the rules to that effect, with conditions that stopped the rule being abused, but you’ve explained it and shown it so well, there’s no way I’ll forget it now. Thank you so much. I wish you the very best of luck with your excellent channel.
Thanks a lot Andy I really appreciate that comment ⛳
Another great one Jay!
I swear when you said “I must take relief as a left-handed player..”. I would have thought you must then play that shot as a left-hander. 😂😂
You aren't the first to say that! lol. Fortunately, the Rules don't govern 'how' you must hit a shot so 'taking relief' is just referring to putting a ball In Play (dropping in this case). Thanks a lot for the comment!! 👊
@@JayRobertsGolf Thank you for making these videos and sharing. Have learned quiet a bit from the channel!
Hope to see you at Skybrook some day! 👍
@@Unplugged704 Thank you my friend. Unfortunately, it may be a while before i'm back at the brook. I'll be back in August for club championship weekend but aside from that, the wife and I will be spending our time in Birmingham as she is taking her nursing talents into the ER down here! I too am in the running for an exciting job that I may be sharing soon with everyone :)
@@JayRobertsGolf ...I am assuming that had you NOT standing on the car path for a set up for a left-handed swing, then one can NOT get relief. Is that correct?
@@Emperor-Wild-Man The relief is from standing on the cart path. In order to get relief from standing on a cart path, a person must be standing on the cart path. If a person is not standing on a cart path, they don't get relief due to standing on a cart path. If this is confusing, imagine a person standing on a cart path. Then imagine a person not standing on a cart path. From this visualization, it is easier to imagine which of these two people get relief from standing on the cart path.
This is an awesome example of knowing the rules and using them properly to your benefit. Thanks for an excellent instructional video. You have inspired me to spend more time learning the rules of the game we love.
Thank you! I appreciate the comment. And I think that's well said. When you love the game as much as we do, you want to respect it by playing it the way it was intended, whether that helps your score or hurts it
I would have thought that once you took relief as a left hand you would need to swing in like-manner (lefty) once you dropped. I'm surprised they don't make a differentiation on that.
This is not the case. Since you have dropped correctly under the rules of 16.1a you may now be finding yourself in a completely different situation and hence you are allowed to use 1 a different club than you otherwise would have and 2 a different stance eg. right/left handed. See clarification 16.1a(3)/1 :)
Bingo!
VERY POORLY EXPLAINED IN THIS VIDEO. Although the golfer took relief as a lefty, he proceeded to play his next shot as a righty. I know he’s allowed, but he didn’t explain why.
@@seanm3226indeed, in fact I’m pretty sure he said that once you’ve taken relief as a left handed you must play the shot as a lefty …. Or words to that effect. I’m confused by this point. Otherwise the video was great
@@AnotherLostBallhe did say something similar to that, but he demonstrated taking the relief as a left hander. Eg he took his driver standing on the grass just off the path. The club head then being right at the base of the tree. He then measured one club length from that point, and put up a text box saying post relief being taken shot can be hit either hand.
In this case you would argue the spirit of playing the ball as it lies would mean you play the ball left handed having claimed relief left handed BUT the opposite can happen taking a drop and the ball coming to rest and only a left hand shot being playable. The rules would allow you to okay it left or right handed.
Great video. The rules of golf are written clearly, but it's sometimes hard to imagine how some scenarios might play out in an actual game. Videos like this are very informative.
Thank you very much! I appreciate the comment
If you took relief from a left-handed position why didn't you have to take the relief stroke left-handed?
The rules simply don’t require it. Once relief is given, for whatever reason, the ball is now in play. And you can play the ball from either side, with any club.
He should have hit left handed
The rules don’t require it possibly because there are other situations where you claim relief and once you drop the ball your best shot option would be to play it the other way around to your natural set up, and if making you play your normal way you would actually be disadvantaged.
Having the ability to hit the ball both ways can be an advantage and many of us never try it, should golfers who do practice just in case be disadvantaged for developing their skill set?.
@@guyr7351 No. It's called a loophole that has never been corrected. To anyone who believes otherwise, congrats on being a scheisty nit.
I subscribed to your channel because ince the first one I saw, you are clear and with objectivity in your explanations. My question is in this video you choose to pretend that you are going to hit it left handed, after your drop and relief you play it right handed, why in these case and not on the rough where the cart path is also interfering with your stance.
I didn´t understand.
Love all the rules video's by the way.
Going to try and get the committee to add one a month into the committee emails.
Love that magic trick when you changed the iron into a driver :)
Glad someone noticed 😉 lol
Fascinating use of the rules. An addendum to the rule should make your next shot be played left handed (or right handed if that was the stance you took relief from).
Conditions after relief are different from conditions before relief. Once relief is taken you are free to make any stance and swing choices that fit the new scenario. You are not required to mimic anything pre-relief.
“Should”
best rules videos online. thanks!
From your description of the Relief (feet on cart path as you addrssed the ball Left Handed, I was under the impression that you had to address and strike the ball as a lefty, but you hit it righty.
Huge help Jay thank you!!
2:16 golf tips and a magic show???!!! This channel is going places!
Thanks bud really appreciate that!! ⛳️👊🏽
I love this rule, just i think for the most clubmembers i will play my rounds with in a competition, this would lead to a lot of discussion on the course why i am doing the things as you just explained
Yes it could. Thankfully, the rule provides this exact example so it shouldn't be hard for them to realize
Wish I had known this last week. Not sure if it would have absolutely helped but it was in the general area. I remember the exact location. I faced the opposite direction and spun the club head 180*. Worked out okay but being close to the green I’m rather sure I would have had a chance at an up-and-down.
It’s a rare situation but now you can keep this rule in your arsenal! 😎
Awesome vid!! i knew you could take relief playing the opposite hand club and if relief allows you to play your correct handedness then so be it. Rub of the green. But it is gentleman if you really “would” hit the ball left handed.
What i learned is point of relief. I and everyone ive played with do not count the tree as POR. we’ve always gone behind the tree and then from there got 1club. Understandable if relief area is still behind the tree well thats too bad.
Can you site where nearest point of relief can actually be “inside” the tree as in the vid??
Great channel bud!! Rules are rules and even pros need help on rules too. Keep it up.
Jon, thanks so much for the comment! Despite popular belief, the rules are there to help the player and not hurt them. If you know them, you are in an advantageous position and that’s the message with this channel!!
I always cite the relevant rule(s) in the description box but you made me realize that I did not cite the rule that addresses the nearest point of complete relief being in a place that the player cannot determine. I will add that as soon as I’m able. Thank you!!
The rule citation for that can be found in interpretation number 5 for the definition of nearest point of complete relief (Nearest Point of Complete Relief/5). And this interpretation specifically mentions when the NPCR is inside of a tree!
Thanks for the support, Jon!!
Excellent explanation of a rule that I didn't even know existed, not in the way that you've used it here that is. What a find your channel has been Jay 👏👏
That means a lot! 🙏 Thanks so much for the comment. More on the way so stay tuned!! 😁
@@JayRobertsGolf you just became my go-to rules guru :D
@@franksfiddle9031 No pressure! lol. Thanks, Frank
@@JayRobertsGolf No pressure at all - you're already doing a great job. My name's Mike by the way .. I know, Sorry ;)
@@franksfiddle9031 LOL. I got you MIKE!! 😁
Good example.
I’ve had a couple of scenarios where players have backed out of the trees when it was clearly evident their stance/ball were interfered by rabbit scratchings…
“Why didn’t you ask for a drop?”
Should it say 'contract' in the screen text, or 'contact'?
Well, the rules are to be read that he can't take the swing right handed, check for relief left handed, which also showed he can't play it, but is the more reasonable option. After the drop is done he can play whichever way he wants. Simple. Had he been able to do a normal relief and play Rhd it'd be no explanation-video. The way he mentions to "play" left handed is for the relief itself and not the actual shot.
Thank you the explanation.
Great Video Jay! Also worth pointing out that the definition for "Relief Area" includes the following guidance:
In using club-lengths to determine the size of a relief area, the player may measure directly across a ditch, hole or similar thing, and directly across or through an object (such as a tree, fence, wall, tunnel, drain or sprinkler head), but is not allowed to measure through ground that naturally slopes up and down.
Regards
Fraz
Thanks for adding! A wise person once told me that the definitions are the “engine” of the rules 😎 you can learn a lot just from knowing the definitions!
The rule should state if you intend to take a left handed swing, you should have to make that swing after taking relief. We all know this is a bunk rule with a huge loophole.
Exactly. I've known about this rule loop-hole for years, just silly.
Why should it be changed? It applies to left handed golfers too😁
I agree. Its not in the spirit of the game. Take your medicine and knock it backwards or sideways to a place you can make a shot. Hell ive hit'em them at trees for a ricochet to get back into a playable position. Thats real golf. Not this lawyer golf shit. If Garcia and Langer have climbed a fucking tree to play a shot then this scenario is bullshit.
This has never, in the history of golf, been the case. Use your knowledge of the rules to your advantage and leave the ones that don't know them pondering.
When you say 'we all know', you mean you and other idiots who cannot be bothered to learn the rules.
I am very surprised that you can play your shot as a right hander after you have taken relief as a left hander? It would appear that you can according to one of the replies below. Common sense does not always apply to the R&A rules and in this case I believe the rules are definitely wrong.
Jay: very clear explanation, but why is it not unreasonable to take relief as a left handed player and then not play a left handed shot?
It’s the same reason why he was able to get relief in the first place you can hit any shot on the golf course, left-handed or right handed it doesn’t matter
In this case he could legitimately injure himself trying to play a right handed shot in that spot
It would be unreasonable if he was 5 feet away from the tree with it in the way of the green and he “played” a left handed shot to get relief so he could have a better shot at the green
Regarding the situation at the end. I carry a left handed club in my bag. And sometimes I just hit left handed from the fairway. Is that basis enough to get relief??
In the second example (deep rough, cart path on right), pretend the cart path is not there. If you can convince your playing partners/rules official that you would play that shot left handed regardless of the cart path being there (shot shape, wind, the one left handed club you carry happens to be the perfect distance you're aiming to lay up), then try it.
Hi Adnan, Kevo provided a helpful response. Your situation would certainly be unique (and I also find it impressive). I tend to lean on the side that it would likely be reasonable for you to play it left handed in that situation. Ultimately though, a Rules Official/Committee would have to determine this.
@@JayRobertsGolf don't be too impressed. I do it mostly for spinal health to balance out both sides. In a serious match the left handed club stays in the bag if I'm driving straight
@@adnanshoukat1793 Long live the spine! It's petty important for golf lol.
@@JayRobertsGolf yeah didn't give my spine the care it deserves before I found golf. Luckily I found golf before my back gave out. Now I'm more fit at 37 then I was in my late 20s
Hi jay,
Only seen video last night and was explaining to boys on coarse today and a scenario came up where my ball
finished a foot from water hazard and being a right handed golfer couldn't hit the ball without standing in the water so
if i played left handed there was a cart path under my feet and i could have dropped back on the right side of cart path as a left hander then
chose to play right handed which would have had me standing on cart path again so could have taken relief again or
would i just have to play right handed standing on path.
Or does a hazard void this rule.
Complicating things a little but that's golf rulings.
I didn't take it because wasn't sure as it felt more like just trying to evade the bad like like in the last section of you video.
What are your thoughts on this ?
What would happen if when you dropped the ball it bounced or rolled to a point closer to the hole than the original shot?
That is a great description.
Appreciate the comment, Chris!!!
I think that my playing partners would consider hitting the ball left handed from that position, with the back of a right-handed club, to be unreasonable. It would be likely to bury itself in the pine needles. Carrying a left-handed club in your bag is not a bad idea for a right-hander (and vice versa): it would make such a proposed shot more reasonable, and could be used in other situations where no free relief would be available from a difficult position.
When playing a left handed shot with a right handed club, you don’t use the back of the club head. You rotate the club so that the toe of the club rest on the ground, acting as the sole of the club. In this position, you will still be using the face of the club, albeit in a horribly unorthodox position.
Two local rules that are becoming very popular. Also difficult to understand by most club players. Would you be willing to record relief on the local rules E-5 and local rule F-1.5
I only hit fairways and greens so I’ll never need this rule.
Great video thank you
Great stuff Jay!
Question for you. There was a case during a tournament where a guys nearest point of relief was inside a bush. Even with a club length he was still inside the bush. He stated he didn’t have to drop inside the bush and should get relief from the bush when determine his drop.
How do the rules apply to this scenario?
I’ve covered similar cases in other videos. Hope you’ll check them out. But it’s just tough luck. You aren’t guaranteed a good lie or shot after taking relief. In that case the player could play it as it lies from the cart path. Or, take relief by dropping in the relief area inside the bush. After dropping in the bush, they could play it as it lies or take Unplayable relief for 1 penalty stroke.
Why does the picture of the video show the before and after where the ball is in a different spot. This was not in the video.
Or just use your foot wedge
A great example of how horrible the rules of golf are...no relief from a divot in the middle of the fairway but you can "cheat" your way out of this situation. What happened to "play it as it lies".
You play it as it lies unless there is an exception where the Rules allow the player to alter conditions on the course and require or allow the player to play the ball from a different place than where it lies👍
You can still play it as it lies. The rules of free relief from an immovable obstruction (in this case a cart path) is as far as I can see more or less the same since May 14, 1754. There is no cheating going on here. No new mumbo jumbo. Just that same old rules of golf that has always applied. It can pay off some times to know the rules. -And sometimes they are ruthless. :)
It's not cheating. Saw this same situation except no cart path. Player hit left handed with the back of his 5-iron. Firm conditions, went about 170 yards onto the green, made birdie putt. Hitting left handed in entirely reasonable, and therefore the cart path rule is entirely reasonable.
Jay, you should make an app. On the course if something comes into question pull out your phone and search.....might piss off the group behind you, but F them :)
I'm surprised your not made to hit the ball with the hand you us to get relief. Definitely a good loophole to know. I just see a bunch of drunk hoosiers at my course getting into it over this rule. Lol. So many fights I've stopped over the years as a superintendent, because of controversial rules like this. A lot of folks might have a hard time believing this, but when a lot of money is riding on the hole, it can get intense. I don't mean a few hundred bucks, I mean wad's of hundreds get thrown around,10's of thousands of dollars. It's insane!
That sounds like my kind of game to play in (money wise, not the fist throwing lol). Fortunately, this situation comes up rarely but it's also quite easy to settle the debate amongst doubters as the Rule cites a specific example that the scenario in this video is modeled after almost exactly. They just need to see the Rule. Case closed. Thanks for all you do as a Super. Your club should give you a rise if you also double as a peace-keeper! lol
Seems like the rules really ARE there to help you! 🙂👍🙏🇬🇧
They definitely are!!! IF you know them 😎 add this one to your bag of tricks!
This one is a funny one, because for us regular golfers, or I'd argue a large majority, striking it left handed would be an unreasonable stroke, but how would you decide it? In a tournament, I guess the benefit of doubt is in favor of the player, but if you're playing with your regular golfing partners, who knows you can't pull off that shot, it would be a no go I'm guessing :D
You cheeky get. I like it.
When dose rule 16.1a(3) come into play? 'No relief when clearly unreasonable'.
TIA.
When it is clearly unreasonable.
Does this mean that when my ball is directly in the middle of the cart path I don’t have to go to the nearest point of relief for my normal swing? If I’m a righty and taking the opposite side as relief is beneficial I can just pretend I would have played the shot lefty, drop on the favorable side and then swing righty?
No, that is incorrect. Is based on the shot you would play, not one you would pretend to play. In the case in the video, the left handed shot was not only reasonable, it was the only playable shot. He wasn’t pretending, if the path was not there he would have played left handed. And if we tried it, most of us would do the same.
Please explain how the nearest point of relief is inside a tree trunk.
You took relief as left handed but then you hit as right handed , how is it possible?
see rule clarification 16.1a(3)/1 there is nothing fishy going on here :) New ball position, new rule situation.
Yeah u need the xe747 punch out club for that one buddy
thanks again
Dear Jay. I have a query. In the video above suppose the ball was in a position where a straight line from the ball to the flag would be such that it might be through the tree and other things are the same. Also I, by playing left handed may not be able to attack the flag but the straight line is to the right edge of the green/ green side bunker. Can I seek relief under this rule as you showed above? Please do reply. I had a big argument yesterday.
Provided that you are proposing to take a reasonable shot in the circumstances, you can use the rule in the way that Jay describes. Simply playing the ball sideways onto the fairway would probably be a reasonable shot. There does not need to be direct line of play to the hole or putting green for the shot to be reasonable. However, the allowance must not be abused, so you cannot for example claim that you would have played back towards the teeing area, just to get free relief from the path, and then use that free relief to advance the ball towards the hole. If in competition, you should check with your playing partners and/or official whether the proposed shot would be reasonable.
You don't get relief because a tree is in your line of play, and switching to left handed to get your feet on the path would not be justified since there is no compelling reason to switch stances except to get your feet on the path. This would fall under the category that he covered near the end.
Perfect video.
Thank you for that comment!
At 1:20 you said the only condition is you must take relief as a left handed player, but you played the relieved shot right handed. Given you're asking for relief from a left handed playing position, shouldn't this mean you need to play your relieved shot left handed?
Hi. If a short cart path runs perpendicular to direction of play and the ball comes to rest on it. Is the NPCR still able to be taken laterally or would that be back behind the path now in this instance? Cheers
Hey Matt, good question. If the ball was on a path that ran perpendicular to the direction of play, lateral movement in either direction would keep the ball on the path for some distance. The shortest distance is a straight line so the NPCR in this case would be back behind the path. That help?
@@JayRobertsGolf yep perfect thanks!
Matt, just remember that your relief can’t be any closer to the hole…
I had a similar situation recently but the circumference of the tree was Humungus, I'm saying wider than the length of a driver, but the ball was smack on the middle of the roots almost in the exact same position as your picture , now what? Also what would have been the play if the ball was more or less wedged between tree roots and any attempt except by the person with the highest level of skill would not have been reasonable, Isn't it unplayable the only option then period in other car path wasn't there would you take a attempt at this and if the answer is no and don't you have to take an unplayable?
If it is not physically possible to drop the ball in any part of the identified relief area, then you are not allowed relief from the condition. (NPCR/4 and NPCR/5) and must either play it as it lies or take unplayable ball relief.
If the stroke the player wants to make is clearly unreasonable given the circumstances (such as a ball lying between tree roots such that the player couldn't get a club on the ball) then relief would be denied. They would then have to take unplayable ball relief.
“Run the risk of injury or even breaking my club.”
A true golfer has his/her priorities straight.
Good comment. Did you MEAN to say that?
It came out naturally 😁 lol
@@JayRobertsGolf So, would the chance of breaking the club be enough to use this? Meaning, if the ball was a bit further away from that tree (towrds the camera here) so that you wouldn't hit your hand into the tree, but likely would your club?
I am stunned at at all the comments agreeing with this video!!!! It is entirely wrong and saying that he will play left handed is unreasonable because he is only saying it to get relief from the tree that he is behind!!!! If he plays right handed as he usually does, it is the tree preventing his shot, not the cart path - cheating at the highest level!!!!!
That's wrong though. Playing it right handed would be unreasonable. It risks injury or damaging to club. Playing left handed would be reasonable in this situation to try and hit out. Just happens in this case you can really stretch the limits of the rules to get a better situation. Pros do this all the time. Sometimes the rules work in favor. Other times they don't.
Interesting that you can hit the left hand relief ball right handed if you want.
Also, I had forgotten that a drop ball was from knee height.
I'm actually working on a video about dropping soon. Seems like a simple process on the surface (and it is) but there's a lot of interesting aspects to it. Appreciate the comment!
In this case the left handed relief would have caused the same problem that we had in the first place IF played left handed. So it makes sense, but yeah, I thought the same.
YOu didn't need to play left to get a club length away from teh tree. The tree is preventing you from striking the ball fairly so you would be entitled to a lcub length.
Seems like an oversight that one can take relief as a lefty but still play it as a righty.
It’s not you couldn’t do this if you did not have a reason to not play right handed
@@jazon8877 but the only reason for relief was because of the cart path and the cart path is only in the way for a lefty shot. So if he gets relief for a lefty attempt then the final shot should be made as a lefty
I submit the first case is also unreasonable. WHo gets to decide what is reasonable?
3:45 but you hit the ball right handed when taking left handed relief thought you had to hit left handed since you committed to left handed when taking relief from the cart path. Also since the cart path is your relief object shouldn’t it be 1club Len from cart part not the tree??
The Rule only requires the player to take relief as a left-handed (opposite hand) player, which is the process of dropping the ball in the relief area. After relief has been taken, you can continue playing as a left-handed player or play it normally as a right handed player. The choice is yours. The Rules don't govern how you hit the ball (left vs. right).
When taking relief from an Abnormal Course Condition (cart path in this case), you find the nearest point of complete relief where the cart path no longer interferes with your lie, stance, or swing. THEN, from that point, you get a one club-length relief area from that point to drop the ball. In this case, my nearest point of complete relief was inside the tree so that's where I was measuring the one club-length. Hope this helps!
You mentioned that you could clean the ball or substitute it. Why are you allowed to substitute the ball before the completion of the hole if the ball is not damaged?
You can substitute the ball any time you are taking relief, including free and penalty relief👍
@@JayRobertsGolf oh, that's great! Thank you very much, Jay.
@@francisliew2662 no problem! 👍
You took relief from the cart path as a left handed player, but hit the ball right handed after the drop. Curious because you said at the 1:23 mark. You can only take relief as a left handed player, which you did, but you hit the shot right handed. Please clarify.
This is covered by clarification 16.1a(3)/1 after the drop is completed the ball is no longer in the same position and another situation applies. you may now play it as right handed with a different club, and if the immovable obstruction , or another now impedes your swing or stance, you are allowed to take free from that as well.
He took relief as a left handed player, just as he said he must. He then chose to play right handed, as the only requirement to strike the ball is to impact it with the head of the club. He explicitly says on screen at 3:40 that he can choose to play from either side.
Take relief because, although you play right handed, you have interference with a left hand swing. Once relief is taken you play your shot right handed. Sounds like lawyer golf to me.
Is that a bad thing? It’s clearly illustrated in the rules (in the description)!
@@JayRobertsGolf I'm not saying good or bad. I'm sure it is within the rules. Lawyers work within the law. But, let us say your ball lies below your feet. On the high side your ball and stance is dry, but on the lower side you would stand in casual water if you were to take your stance on that side. The nearest point of relief is on the higher side, two to three feet from the current ball position. Then you are allowed one club length, approximately 4 feet (48"driver) in any direction, no closer to the hole. With that 6 or 7 feet you have achieved a fairly level lie, all because you could possibly have wanted to play that shot left handed, even though you then chose not to. As I say, it sounds like lawyer golf to me.
@@regripandrip6942 I know what you're saying. Lawyers protect their clients by knowing the law. Players can protect themselves by knowing the rules. It's quite possible for a player to achieve an advantageous outcome in the scenario you describe but they have to know the rule. And that is my goal with this channel. I want people to see that the rules are not there to hurt the player but help them. And knowing the rules can give them that extra competitive edge.
Indeed some "red tape" being used here... Although .. I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't use this technicality, if in that situation ;)
Cheating within the rules.
3:26 - or substitute it with another ball, not for another ball. If you use the same ball, that is not substituting it.
Not sure what you are trying to say
@@JayRobertsGolf I don't think you know what you are saying. I think you meant you can clean the ball or substitute it WITH another ball. You said for another ball. That would mean the ball you have in your hand is being substituted for another ball, but if it was the same ball you have been playing, then no substitution took place.
@@davidjames1684 I can clean the ball and use it or substitute it for another ball (change balls)
LOLOLLL Unless you're on TV makin the big bucks ... who gives a crap ... just move the damn ball!
Is the rule the same you chose to play backwards as a right handed player rather than forward as a left handed player related to the cart path.
If I understand what you're saying, yes. If everything was flipped around and you were the opposite hand, it would work the same!
@@JayRobertsGolf I think what he's asking is if you had the same ball but chose to play a right-handed shot in the direction of the tee box (instead of toward the green), would you then be entitled to cart-path relief?
They should change the rule so that any player given relief from hitting a certain way must hit the ball from that direction. I've seen multiple players take relief opposite handed, then hit it from the other side.
Why should they change the rule? I’d rather see them declare a divot as GUR.
@@Michael65429 they should change the rule because it is cheating IMO.
What if, instead of a cart path, you have a tree, interfeering with your stance ?
There is no relief from trees. Play it as it lies
So the difference between the two scenarios is one has a tree that can do damage to you or the club?
Not exactly. A "reasonable" swing is largely determined by whether or not the player would hit a particular shot if the Immovable Obstruction (cart path in this case) was not there. In the first scenario, I would still attempt to play the shot left handed if the cart path wasn't there. In the second scenario, if the cart parh wasn't there, I would never try to hit that shot left handed. The only reason why I would ever try to hit it left handed would be SOLELY to get relief from the cart path to get a drop and improve my lie and that's what makes it unreasonable. Hope that makes sense! Follow up questions welcomed. Thanks for the comment
@@JayRobertsGolf I think this is the key point in analyzing whether or not this is Reasonable. "What would you do if the cart path wasn't there?" Not "What would you do if the tree wasn't there."
@@useyourblues Yes, that is what I said.
@@JayRobertsGolf You’re right. I appreciate you putting it in ways that are easy for us casual golfers to understand.
I’d do all that and then chunk it shorter than I would’ve chipping it left handed while standing on the cart path
I’d wager that this rule has caused many an argument in the course … I’m gonna pull it out of the bag next time😂
No need for arguments, the rule book has the answers and everyone has access to the book on their mobile devices.
did i mishear him when he said he can take relief left handed as long as he plays the shot left handed, then says you can then choose to play it right handed if you wish? huh?
Slick
But then you hit it as a right hander? Is that okay?
Hey JJ! The player is only required to find the Nearest Point of Complete Relief as a left-hander (which then determines the relief area). Once that is figured out, the player drops and relief is complete. At that point, the rules do not require the player to hit a certain type of shot or use a specific club so the player is free to play the next shot either left-handed or right-handed. Not everyone agrees that the player should have this type of freedom in this situation but that's how the rules are applied 🤷♂️ I appreciate the comment and welcome any follow up questions!
You need to swing left-handed after dropping the ball if you use the lefthanded stance to get the relief, right?! (If you played with me in that situation I would have argued that the last rule you highlighted was in effect otherwise.) Might not be a rule but morally that's the way I would have played it. (According to my opinion the rule actually says that you need to make the shot to get relief - At least between the lines.) You still need to "fairly strike the ball" according to 10:1a, right?! While not violating the 161a(3)/2 unreasonable strokes to get relief (If you have chosen to do it lefthanded to get the relief. I really can't see how you can switch back before you make the shot after that.) Se below if you don't get my reasoning. (You have better options.)
However, if you would have said that you wanted to play it righthanded and wanted to go towards the tee; Might be the best option, right?! Then you would have gotten free relief from the cart path anyway.
In other words, you don't need to pretend to play lefthanded if you want to get that particular relief.
You’re referencing all the right rules and even an interpretation but take a look at 16.1a(3)/1 (in the description). This situation is used as the example almost verbatim!
@@JayRobertsGolf I trust you. It's just that my understanding of the rulers is that it isn't on rule fit all. In fact, the rule for one player (a good one) might give that player free relief - We understand or trust the player's skill and understand that they can hit it left or right-handed with the contact that the rules demand - That's a free relief with a possibility to change from left-handed to right-handed stance.
If you on the other hand is a high handicapper who struggles to hit the ball with your normal swing I would argue that I need to see a "proof of concept" in other words that you make a shot as a left-handed in that situation (or have done it in the past in our games.) Then and only then I would accept free relief with the free choice left-handed or right-handed shot after that.
This view might be wrong for sure but it's my understanding of the intention of the rule. (You need to have the ability to make a shot to use the rule.)😊
With all this said. I really like your videos. Keep them coming! Love when they make me question my usual understanding of a situation on the court.
My own rule of thumb however is way more strict than most others. (It's easier)
I always play the ball as it lies. (Even it lies in a hazard if it as all is possible.)
Why?! Well, you evolve as a player if you need to solve the situation with a creative shot instead of a relief. On top of that, you don't need to feel s you are cheating even if you don't do it for real. (You might know the rule but still feel it's an unfair advantage, right?!) Also (as the icing on the cake) you don't have to educate people around you (possibly getting into unnecessary arguments) if you use a rule in a creative way that they don't know about. (But that's just me.) I never expect this from other players. The rule exists and they get to use them as they please.😉
Ever hear of a foot wedge? Winter rules apply all year for me, so I’d just improve my lie. Totally with in legal rules….. when you’re drunk.
wow..
For those questioning the morality, spirit of the game etc for someone exercising their right to use this rule is ridiculous. The only gray area here is “reasonable expectation” to make that left-handed swing. This also differs from capability. You may think that your opponent can not pull off a left handed swing because of their skill level, but they may have the intent to make the swing. That you can’t prove. But to call someone a cheater or immoral for using a rule because is favorable to them is stupid. You are the kinds of players that when your opponent hits a wayward shot, you quietly wish for the ball to go out of bounds, or fall in a hazard. Now THAT is not in the spirit of the game.
I would have thought that taking left handed relief would mean that you would be compelled to make a left handed shot from the point of relief? Seems unsporting to get LH relief and then make a normal RH shot after you get the relief.
The rule cites a specific example about this. You should check it out (in the description box). I believe the rule supports this action because in golf, you generally must play it as it lies and are not guaranteed a normal stance or stroke. The player at times must adopt an "abnormal" swing. But at want point would you draw the line for being too abnormal? I think that's the tough part which leads to the rules not ever requiring that the player use a certain club or make a certain kind of swing when making their stroke.
Really think they should adjust this rule to read that your next shot after taking relief must be played in the same way as you nominated to get relief in the first place.
Ie if you are claiming relief because you want to play left hand then after you have take that relief your next shot must be played left hand. That would put a stop to this nonsense.
I would take out my left hand 7 iron😊
Good explanation. But claimed you are going to play left-handed, got relief, then played right-handed. It's cheating allowed by the golf rules. This rule is the most ridiculous.
Cheating is a harsh word lol. I'd say using the rules to your benefit 👌
@@jeffh.9999 Might feel that way but the intent of the rule is simply to provide relief from interference from an immovable obstruction. This scenario is described almost verbatim in the rules. Golf is hard and you don't always get perfect lies so you must adapt which can require using an abnormal swing. But a referee would still have judgement they can rule on. Their judgement would be whether or not hitting a left-handed shot in this case is a 'reasonable' play. Reasonable is determined by imagining the same shot but without the abnormal course condition there. In other words, if the cart path wasn't there in this video, would it still be reasonable for me to swing left-handed? Absolutely. But if it wasn't, the referee would deny relief.
@@JayRobertsGolf I'd say cheating. Do you honestly believe that what you did was in the spirit of the rules? How did you feel after you did that, pretty clever or pretty pathetic? You seem more like a soccer player than a golfer.
@@citanullunatic4084 Lol. This scenario is described almost verbatim in the rules (check the description) so acting upon it seems pretty spirited to me. And for the record, I felt clever about it because I knew a rule I could apply to help my situation. Thanks!
@@JayRobertsGolf Hmmm. It reminded me of that time Dustin Johnson widened his stance to a ridiculous degree so that his back foot was touching the cart path. He claimed relief from a similar situation. Some people thought he was clever. Me, I thought he was a dick. 🌲🌲
I woulda played it as a lefty (after relief, and as you said) regardless. Maybe you just forgot?
What if you carried 13 RH clubs and 1 LH club. (I used to do this in case I landed under trees and needed a left handed shot). In your last senario where there was no interference from the path if you played it right handed but would be if you played it left handed, couldn't you say I wanted to use my LH club for the shot and then be entitled to relief.
I’ve honestly never heard of a right handed player carrying a left handed club and since posting this video you are the second I’ve heard doing it! It would help your case but having a left handed club alone wouldn’t be enough to grant relief. The type of shot, line of play, distance, etc all need to be evaluated for the Referee/Committee to make that determination. If you carried a left handed 5 iron for example and the shot was 90 yards, relief is unlikely to be granted. This type of scenario is determined on a case by case basis. Hope that helps
If you play 99% of your shots right handed, then no, it would not be reasonable to suddenly switch to left handed because of thick grass.
did you not have to hit the actual shot left handed?
The Rules don't govern how you hit a shot. The only requirement here was to establish the location of the NPCR as if I was left-handed. After that, I am free to hit the shot however I like, left-handed, right-handed, or upside down! 👍
Bugger me, never knew that.
I feel unreasonable relief should be read into all the relief rules if it isn't already.
I don't even play golf, but why do you have to seek relief from a car path "interfering with your stance" when you clearly also have a tree? Why isn't the tree on itself a reason for relief?
A tree is simply a part of the challenge of playing the game for which no relief is available. Cart paths are not. They are an artificial object (man-made, like sprinkler heads) that are not intended to be part of the challenge of playing so the rules grant relief which is why I needed to use the cart path to get relief 👍Thanks for the question!
Tiger would hit it from anywhere so you should hit that ball as is.
You just said if just be taken as a left handed player
Finding my nearest point of complete relief had to be taken left handed. After that, I get one club length for my relief area. From there, I can play left or right handed 👍🏼
This bit I find strange is the implied NPCR in the middle of a tree. I know you are not guaranteed a good lie, but I cannot see why it cannot be stipulated that the NPCR must be in a place a ball can physically be.