Wow! Dr. Ross, slam dunk, your response with logic and reason are astounding! I have never heard of anyone speak this way! I want to thank the host of this program for being very gracious in letting Dr. Ross interrupt and speak for as long as needed to and for pushing the question when it came down to an individual suffering. I understood Dr. Ross when he gave the answer the first time but when he answered it a 3rd time in a different way, in terms of, the individual, decay, time and choice it really blew my mind away. Unbelievers of course will have a hard time with his answers because they want responses that have nothing to do with God. So, it comes to a point where God and his word is making logical sense or you reject what is reality.
Thank for your having taken the time to comment. I agree, Dr. Ross's work and his books are very good and interesting and powerful. There are some things that are not "scientific" in the sense that most scientists would agree, even scientists who are Christian, but still, his work is great. Thanks again.
To help answer the question about molestation. I am an adoptive parent who loves all my kids dearly. So when I had to notify the police after discovering one of my kids sneaking into a younger one's room at night it was heartbreaking and tragic. Why did I allow this evil? Because I gave my kids a certain amount of free will which one abused. This experience helped me understand the challenge of free will with God if He truly is all loving toward everyone even the perpetrators of evil (which is all of us at times). So why was there pain and suffering in my house? Because I chose to adopt troubled kids. Did that lead to more pain and suffering among innocent people? Yeah. Will it all be worthwhile in the end? I think so.
Thank you for your input. I think your analogy doesn't really work, precisely because you stepped in to call the police. A person who does not believe in God could argue, and rightfully so, that God apparently does not step in. God appears to allow the abuse to continue. Again, thank you for taking the time to comment, and thanks for the work you for others and for the world.
@@eismscience I agree my analogy does break down. But my "stepping in" didn't stop the evil. I'm still monitoring it and hoping for the best. What if God has stepped in and eliminated 99% of the suffering in this world? Wouldn't we still just complain about the remaining 1%? How do we know God hasn't eliminated most of the suffering already?
@eismscience God not stopping someone from abusing a young child is not the same as God not doing anything to stop the abuse. God doesn't interfere in our human lives like that. Why does God not interfere in that way is not even a legitimate question.
this question and many related questions plus mass killings of the people in the Bible (this has an answer if you know Evil is descriptive of persons - angels included, not object, led me to unbelief or maybe I did not truly believe in the first place. I mocked my wife and sinned greatly against my family. An event (kinda supernatural);happened as I was copying scriptures, the answer to my question that kinda startled me as a the answer for me was “heart”. God judges the heart. In due time I understand God is righteous. Before trying to fathom love, is his righteousness. Not our kind of idea of Love, but his way. In the case say of the molested child, God will recompense. Thus a righteous God will deal righteously with the child. Read sermon of the mount. And if the child died, what would you think a righteous God will do for the child? I do not know the answer, but I know God is righteous. I imagine something good, whatever it is, He is righteous.
My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such a violent reaction against it?... Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if i did that, then my argument against God collapsed too--for the argument depended on saying the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies. Thus, in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist - in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless - I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality - namely my idea of justice - was full of sense. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never have known it was dark. Dark would be without meaning. C.S. Lewis
What a great guy and full of wisdom, not perfect but very eye opening when looking at science in a Biblical context or looking at the Bible with a scientific context. I know 10 times more about science and understand more of the bible when I look at creation in that way then I did just 2 years ago.
2:20 I can answer your question. Humans have free will. God does not intervene because that would violate the principles of free will. Humans have been in a fallen state ever since Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden. So, naturally, some humans choose to use their free will for evil. So the question shouldn't be, "Why does God allow small children to be abused?" Instead, the question should be, "Why do humans allow children to be abused?" The answer you normally get is, "Well, those kids are halfway around the world. What am I supposed to do about it? The answer is that humans need to come together, united as a world under God, and we must all fight together to erraticate evil. That task might seem impossible. But we know that in Revelation, the entire world will be united under one man who will proclaim himself to be God. We know this person as the Antichrist. If it's possible to unite under the Antichrist, then it is certainly possible to unite under God. Using the leadership of Jesus as our example. If we all united under God to be a force for good in the world, there is literally nothing we could not achieve.
Thank you for pressing dr Ross. You asked important questions. It’s a mystery that even those of us who have a personal relationship with God (Jesus) don’t have adequate answers to,, I think to Hebrews, “it’s impossible to please God without faith”,, and it’s that trust that we can walk in while everything around us seems to be falling apart.
Thanks for the comment. It's always refreshing to hear Christians be objective about things. When Christians dismiss these questions, it often does more harm than good, from an intellectual perspective. Thanks again.
I think he answered this very good. They s guy said he was just like all the others that answered it and he didn't do it well. I disagree.. but the guy interviewing him was very nice and respectful and I understand his feelings.
About the question, why GOD did not save the girl from molestation if HE is all powerful and ALMIGHTY, is the same question as why JESUS have to go through crucifixion and death, if this person could not understand it because he is athlete then undo athiesm and become believer if it is the way to understand....
Thanks for your input. I'd be happy to talk over Zoom if you think I missed something. Let me know and we can post the exchange here in the comments. In any case, thanks for having taken the time to express your opinion.
I totally agree with you. It's the other party that may not understand. Dr Ross is so thorough and precise, it's mind-boggling. I have to listen to his videos 2, 3 times sometimes, to understand everything he says. Many times people don't want the reason they want another reason. And there's not another reason and we don't know the total mind Of God there's no way we could. He wouldn't be God if we could understand him totally. God has his reasons and seasons of doing things and not doing things. We have to accept God's decisions and timing.
Hi Luis, I think Hugh Ross explained it very well, but he was trying to give you the whole picture instead of a basic starting point. It basically comes down to this: If humans are to have free will, then they need to be able to freely commit evil as much as good. If God stops evil every time it happens, then it wouldn't be free will at all. As much as it hurts, He has to allow us to do (mostly) anything in order for our obedience to Him to mean anything. Hope this helps.
Thanks for your input. As you correctly point out, the question of freedom answers why God allows the adult to commit the crime, but does not respond to the more important question of why allow the innocent victim to be abused? That's like you and I arguing that we are going to let a rapist come into our child's bedroom and do whatever he wants to our child because we don't want to curb the rapist's free will. Do you see the problem?
@@eismscience Yes I understand, and it feels like he should intervene in such cases. However, I would also argue that the vast majority of evil doing victimizes innocent people, even if the people aren't AS innocent as a little child. Therefore, by your argument, he would still have to intervene most, if not all the time. This would circle back to my first reasoning of how such divine actions would make our free will next to meaningless. Its either you want everyone to be lobotomized and programmed to be the perfect robot, or you want everyone to have the freedom to make their own choices (which will unfortunately have rapists, murderers, cheaters, etc).
@eismscience God walked with us in the garden until we rejected him. At that time, humanity fell and was separated from God. We, as he warned, died, spiritually. Your response here presupposes that little children are "innocent" and the adult is an "evil doer". I understand that we obviously look at a child as innocent, however, after the fall, none are innocent. All have fallen short to his perfect goodness. Humanity left him and said we know better and we can do it on our own. Only in his perfect love and mercy, does HE pursue us after we rejected him. He has given us the gift of grace and eternal union with him through his son, but he's not going to force it on anyone. So, until we freely choose the covering of his sacrifice because we understand that we're not good and innocent and aren't capable of it without his goodness in us, we are still in a state of rejecting him. We can't have it both ways of wanting him to be in control to blame for evil while wanting to be our own gods.
I like how he said that he doesn't have specific data about the molested child so he cannot answer it directly. Most of the time we ask questions without knowing the full picture, and being a scientist, Hugh Ross wants to investigate data first before proving conclusions to the matter. I always get the same question from unbelievers, and I also usually reply and asks for more details before really answering.
Thanks for your input. What's the difference between asking for more information and not having an answer? Also, at what point is "enough information" reached?
@@eismscience I could apply that to God, visual evidence seems to be the only evidence atheists want. Isn't the Fine-tuning of the Universe , which is growing through scientific discovery evidence for you?
@@eismscienceYour question is my question and everything related to it, the injustice ( you will read lots of it in psalms and the the “prophets”. And of course Job, the answer for me was “heart”… God judges the heart. Building on that would be a longer answer. However I think God will answer it the way you will understand.
16:51 The answer to this question is that it only appears that the child suffers more on earth. But when that priest dies, he will probably have to spend eternity in a lake of hell fire. So, in that sense, the priest does and will suffer more.
Science recognizes the outcome of evil - decay, death, pain, suffering. The laws of physics bring issues such as more work, waste of time as results of evil. Much scientific work relates to the intervention in these consequences. Thus we work hard at reducing work. We attempt to delay death. We look for ways to reduce the amount of pain and suffering. I think the argument is scientific even if not to specific instances.
Yes, to the extent that I understand your comment, I think you're right. I have a video where I try to put some mathematical teeth on this idea by connecting morality to the principle of least action. Take a glance at it and let me know if you want to meet on Zoom to talk about it. Thanks for having taken the time to comment.
The Lord has created a massive universe and is finely tuned and complex in many ways we don’t even understand. It was all created in a way that sustains life on this earth - as far as I’m concerned, there is ample evidence that God exists. But each person has to make a decision whether or not we want to encounter Him. He won’t force each person to have a relationship with Him. All one has to do is to ask God to reveal himself to you and he will. I think even the most skeptical people should at least try this to rule out the possibility that God exists.
Ross doesn’t stumble as your opening comments suggest. He answers in a clear and compelling way how God in his love gave his creatures free will which they used for evil.
If there is any good there is 100% good. If there is any love there is 100% love. In order to provide space for repentance some people must be permitted sin to a degree. The earth is a temporary place for us work out our salvation. Such a place could not be a heaven on earth.
At minute 22, the moderator asks for forgiveness. Words matter; would a rebellious ('aetheist') spirit ask this - doubtful. There is hope and a want to believe by the moderator (devil's advocate). Where there's Hope, there's Faith; where there's Faith, there's Love. Repent And accept Yahua's Grace.
I like a lot of Dr Ross's arguments in other contexts. But here, I don't think that his answers make much sense. If people's actions are driven by 'strong free-will', then they are not driven by fundamental laws of nature. If God can intervene through miracles , but not too often, then why wouldn't God save the interventions for just the most egregious suffering of innocents, such as the molestation of children, many of whom go on to commit suicide or live terrible lives because of their innocent suffering. Many people die in natural disasters (and perhaps suffer some damnation) having never heard the 'Christian message', and certainly did so in previous aeons. As a good, loving, parent, you might, in fact, need to inflict a small, proportionate, amount of suffering on a child in order for them to understand, age-appropriate, personal responsibility (e.g. not getting a wished-for present or being grounded). But you must not, and would not, inflict serious physical, mental or emotional harm or abuse. And yet Dr Ross argues and asks us to accept that an all-loving and all-powerful God is perfectly justified in inflicting any level of suffering or harm, even on those who made no individual, free-will, decisions, as part of events. And then he answers that he can't comment on individual cases of such natural suffering / evil because the laws only apply to groups. My ears are very much open on this topic, as I follow a Christian-Buddhist path as best I can, but I don't find any of Dr Ross's arguments here either convincing or sensible. I think certain Process Theologies, where God is all-loving but not all powerful, and not necessarily the creator of all that is, make far more sense of Christ's message.
Annaj, I think the reasoning goes something like this. If you have kids, I think you'll understand. We are humans and are neither all-good nor all-powerful, yet we have the natural sense to protect our children from being raped. God, who is said to be all-good and all-powerful, apparently does not prevent his own children from being raped, which calls into question what is meant by his goodness and power. The incongruent nature of the claim is what the questioning is about. I hope that makes sense.
It is also a parents responsibility to teach children about God. If a child is brought up in household that love and fear God then you would see the different Also a child is spiritually protected throughout one's life if they are taught just how important it is to put God first always.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God was just 'all loving' and there are two forces in the Scripture, LORD who is the Prince of the Earth and the author of ALL evil. Many people confuse God and the LORD as meaning the same, but they represent two separate deities or forces that control the people’s minds and hearts in which they hold sway. The name of the LORD is used for a title of a different god and deity than God. God is also called El by the Hebrews (Phoenicians) and is defined as the “most High God.” When the word God of El is used, it often refers to the supreme and almighty or the heavens and earth’s creator as a type of force over and within mankind that gives them the Holy Spirit represented by light, wisdom, strength, and the power of effect. The molesters and evil you speak of is because these fallen angels AKA people are NOT serving God, but the LORD aka Satan.
Thanks for your comment. To the extent that I understand what you've written, I think your answer could be satisfactory for a believer. What I'm trying to get across is that from a purely scientific or logical standpoint, it doesn't jibe.
@@eismscience its not satisfactory for Christians, the Lord isn't Satan, your both confused! Dr.Michael Heiser videos can educate you both on evil, the absence of Goodness.
The Lord, LORD, and God are the same. The Bible teaches one diety. Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit = one God who exists in three persons. I am certainly not as intelligent as Dr. Ross or anyone else, and I will be the first to claim I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but God's Word is helpful in understanding why their is evil in the world, it is called sin or rebellion against God who is good, who is Holy and Just. As far as trying to explain why a good God would allow a child to be molested by a priest or a pastor, or anyone for that matter to a non-Christian, who is looking for a scientific answer, is incredibly difficult without using the Scriptures, which they don't believe in. I think Dr. Ross gave a reasonable of an explanation as possible. Why God does not use his power to stop an evil act from happening to a child, or stop other evils like the holocaust, we may never understand this side of heaven. He didn't stop an evil act from happening to his child either. In fact it pleased him to crush him. It doesn't make sense to our human finite minds.. Although we can know some things about God from his revealed word, we cannot comprehend everything about him, after all he is God. And although he does not stop evil acts from happening He has done something about the evil that separates us from him, he came into the world he created to be born as a man, to give his life, the righteous for the unrighteous. The cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, they will suppress the truth that they know about God no matter what evidence is given to them.
@@kimberlyo2037 Thanks for your comment. I agree with you but, at the same time, I think we should be honest and objective enough to admit that to a non-believer, the logic is simply not there.
@@eismscience I'm not sure it is possible to use logic in regards to why God allows evil. Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! the depth. Psalm 107:8 Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men! Proverbs 25:3Rather than using logic or evidence of some kind it may be more effective to share the gospel since the end goal would be the conversion of the unbeliever, that the unbeliever gets saved. The gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes. Romans 1:16-17 So, I do think Dr. Ross may have done a better job in using the unbeliever's question about evil to lead them to an understanding of the gospel.
Its hard to explain if your whole reason for not believing is because you think that God allows evil where do you get that idea from? On what grounds does it even make Sense? I believe good is written on out hearts/souls/minds. You can say it just your own ideas and not God's will that we do good. Why is it you care to protect your family? You may want to survive yourself but how to you justify your feelings for protecting anyone but your self? If you say love that's meaning! If you say instinct that's meaning! You basically can't justify any feelings or any instincts in a meaningless universe. If it was meaningless it would just be all chaos and you wouldn't even be able to comprehend words, feelings, ideas etc..... but having any feeling at all on a way that a universe should be as a human you're giving it the very meaning you can't have without a God.
Darknes (ORIGINAL SIN) sees the light and can not comprehend it. Itchy ears only hears what it wants to for justification of there own agendas. GOD is quantum !
I was confronted by a friend with *_his_* "Ultimate question", "How can the creation of an all loving and perfect God who has full foreknowledge, ever go wrong in any way or turn to poison and evil?" I found this a hard question to answer.
Dr Ross did an excellent job. Not sure how you thought he struggled. Lol. God makes all new again. Those innocents that have been subjected to evil during their lifetime, are renewed and released from those painful memories much like a patient under anesthesia doesn’t remember the physical pain of the operation. God is control of eternal life after a Earthly life. Some “good “ people are instrumental in the free choice actions of others choosing “evil”. God renews all that serve him. You simply are missing THE essential power of God. He is capable of washing it all clean, mentally, spiritually in the hereafter dimension of eternal life in heaven. What pain is experienced here are erased from the memory of the flesh. You simply don’t understand the very essence of the divine creator. Earth is just a limited process of the flesh.
Thanks for taking the time to comment. What I've tried to get across in the exchange is that Dr. Ross's reasoning is fine for a Christian, as you have demonstrated in your response, but from a non-Christian, purely rational perspective, something doesn't jibe. If we as humans would not allow our own children to be sexually abused, and we are far from all-powerful and all-good, then how can God allow it? Again, from a Christian perspective, one can use faith and simply make the contradiction disappear, but from a purely logical point of view, it is much more difficult. It's not impossible, as I will aim to show in future videos, but in my humble opinion, Dr. Ross does not achieve it here. Thanks again for your comment.
Evil is as Evil Does ! Romans5: 12 ...through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned... When Adam chose to follow Satan's advice, he chose to follow Satan and to alienate himself and his descendents from God . We are in Satan's World praying for Jesus' return and for God's kingdom to come , for His will to be done on earth as it is in heaven! Matt6: 9to13...deliver us from evil !
Hugh Ross is coming from a Christian standpoint which is far from biblical script. Btw, great questions Luis! Let's open the Book.... Isaiah 45:7 ' I form light and create darkness, I make peace and create evil. I, YHWH do ·ALL· these things.' Amos 3:6 ....... shall there be evil in a city and YHWH has not done it? Job 42:11 2 or 3 witnesses establish a matter has been met here.
Do you even know the context of those verses? Evil is the absence of Good it isn't created, it exists because Free will beings have choices, not all those choices are Good!
Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. Also I believe the context is more better translated to adversity not evil anyways is that specific context
That evil exists in our universe and our lives, and that we can and often do commit or participate in acts of evil, is a tragedy. The question of why a loving God would allow it on the beings of His creation is a mystery. So let us examine the issue thusly: In a world where God exists, the experience of those who suffer evil but who have been redeemed and found salvation is akin to a person suffering greatly from an accident or illness but who overcomes it to become whole and healthy again, which by every measure makes one stronger and by far more appreciative of life. In a world where God does not exist, and yet people still suffer evil but cannot be redeemed nor find salvation, well in that world evil wins. The fact that Love exists despite all the Evil in the world proves evil can be overcome, in my humble opinion. And what is more profound in a world of evil other than Sacrificial Love? Nothing. Hence, if we believe and live in faith, we will meet God at the foot of the Cross.
Thanks for your input. What you've written makes sense from the perspective of a person who believes in Christianity, but is harder to follow from a scientific perspective. That's what I have tried to get across in my talk with Dr. Ross.
@@eismscience You're welcome and thank you for interviewing Dr Ross and having these conversations. Certainly from a scientific viewpoint, it appears difficult to reconcile faith and science. But as David Hume examined, science can tell us only what "is" not what we "ought" to do with what is. It is my sincere belief that there is no such thing as a faithless human. Inevitably each of us must decide what we ought to do with what is (this is truly revealed in our conduct to one another, not in what one simply says), hence at the foundation of our being we must place our faith in a belief in something, even if we place it in something as meaningless as Nihilism.
Wow! Dr. Ross, slam dunk, your response with logic and reason are astounding! I have never heard of anyone speak this way! I want to thank the host of this program for being very gracious in letting Dr. Ross interrupt and speak for as long as needed to and for pushing the question when it came down to an individual suffering. I understood Dr. Ross when he gave the answer the first time but when he answered it a 3rd time in a different way, in terms of, the individual, decay, time and choice it really blew my mind away. Unbelievers of course will have a hard time with his answers because they want responses that have nothing to do with God. So, it comes to a point where God and his word is making logical sense or you reject what is reality.
Thank for your having taken the time to comment. I agree, Dr. Ross's work and his books are very good and interesting and powerful. There are some things that are not "scientific" in the sense that most scientists would agree, even scientists who are Christian, but still, his work is great. Thanks again.
👉I REALLY LOVE THE WAY HE Explains the Connection between Science 🧪🧫 AND GODS LOVE FOR HIS CREATION.
To help answer the question about molestation. I am an adoptive parent who loves all my kids dearly. So when I had to notify the police after discovering one of my kids sneaking into a younger one's room at night it was heartbreaking and tragic. Why did I allow this evil? Because I gave my kids a certain amount of free will which one abused. This experience helped me understand the challenge of free will with God if He truly is all loving toward everyone even the perpetrators of evil (which is all of us at times). So why was there pain and suffering in my house? Because I chose to adopt troubled kids. Did that lead to more pain and suffering among innocent people? Yeah. Will it all be worthwhile in the end? I think so.
Thank you for your input. I think your analogy doesn't really work, precisely because you stepped in to call the police. A person who does not believe in God could argue, and rightfully so, that God apparently does not step in. God appears to allow the abuse to continue.
Again, thank you for taking the time to comment, and thanks for the work you for others and for the world.
@@eismscience I agree my analogy does break down. But my "stepping in" didn't stop the evil. I'm still monitoring it and hoping for the best. What if God has stepped in and eliminated 99% of the suffering in this world? Wouldn't we still just complain about the remaining 1%? How do we know God hasn't eliminated most of the suffering already?
@eismscience God not stopping someone from abusing a young child is not the same as God not doing anything to stop the abuse. God doesn't interfere in our human lives like that. Why does God not interfere in that way is not even a legitimate question.
this question and many related questions plus mass killings of the people in the Bible (this has an answer if you know Evil is descriptive of persons - angels included, not object, led me to unbelief or maybe I did not truly believe in the first place. I mocked my wife and sinned greatly against my family. An event (kinda supernatural);happened as I was copying scriptures, the answer to my question that kinda startled me as a the answer for me was “heart”. God judges the heart. In due time I understand God is righteous. Before trying to fathom love, is his righteousness. Not our kind of idea of Love, but his way. In the case say of the molested child, God will recompense. Thus a righteous God will deal righteously with the child. Read sermon of the mount. And if the child died, what would you think a righteous God will do for the child? I do not know the answer, but I know God is righteous. I imagine something good, whatever it is, He is righteous.
Wow, thank you for speaking on this.
My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such a violent reaction against it?... Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if i did that, then my argument against God collapsed too--for the argument depended on saying the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies. Thus, in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist - in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless - I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality - namely my idea of justice - was full of sense. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never have known it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.
C.S. Lewis
Jesus died for those not worth dying for - to make them worth it.
- My favorite paraphrase of a C.S. Lewis quote.
Thank you Dr. Ross.
What a great guy and full of wisdom, not perfect but very eye opening when looking at science in a Biblical context or looking at the Bible with a scientific context. I know 10 times more about science and understand more of the bible when I look at creation in that way then I did just 2 years ago.
Awesome an excellent expose! In the future you need to do this again and have it last for at least 3 hours.
Thank you very much for the comment. Unfortunately, Dr. Ross no longer responds to my invitations. Still, I appreciate his time and his work.
Howdy partna! I’m still following and supporting you brother! ✌️
Hi, this is my first video of yours but I wanted to say I think you’re doing an amazing job :D thanks for the content
Thank you for your interest and for the nice comment!
2:20 I can answer your question. Humans have free will. God does not intervene because that would violate the principles of free will. Humans have been in a fallen state ever since Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden. So, naturally, some humans choose to use their free will for evil. So the question shouldn't be, "Why does God allow small children to be abused?" Instead, the question should be, "Why do humans allow children to be abused?" The answer you normally get is, "Well, those kids are halfway around the world. What am I supposed to do about it? The answer is that humans need to come together, united as a world under God, and we must all fight together to erraticate evil. That task might seem impossible. But we know that in Revelation, the entire world will be united under one man who will proclaim himself to be God. We know this person as the Antichrist. If it's possible to unite under the Antichrist, then it is certainly possible to unite under God. Using the leadership of Jesus as our example. If we all united under God to be a force for good in the world, there is literally nothing we could not achieve.
Thank you for pressing dr Ross. You asked important questions. It’s a mystery that even those of us who have a personal relationship with God (Jesus) don’t have adequate answers to,, I think to Hebrews, “it’s impossible to please God without faith”,, and it’s that trust that we can walk in while everything around us seems to be falling apart.
Thanks for the comment. It's always refreshing to hear Christians be objective about things. When Christians dismiss these questions, it often does more harm than good, from an intellectual perspective. Thanks again.
I think he answered this very good. They s guy said he was just like all the others that answered it and he didn't do it well. I disagree.. but the guy interviewing him was very nice and respectful and I understand his feelings.
About the question, why GOD did not save the girl from molestation if HE is all powerful and ALMIGHTY, is the same question as why JESUS have to go through crucifixion and death, if this person could not understand it because he is athlete then undo athiesm and become believer if it is the way to understand....
Wonderful video, thank you.
I don't think Dr. Ross has a problem explaining anything. I think Bravo has a problem understanding the explanation.
Thanks for your input. I'd be happy to talk over Zoom if you think I missed something. Let me know and we can post the exchange here in the comments. In any case, thanks for having taken the time to express your opinion.
I totally agree with you. It's the other party that may not understand. Dr Ross is so thorough and precise, it's mind-boggling. I have to listen to his videos 2, 3 times sometimes, to understand everything he says. Many times people don't want the reason they want another reason. And there's not another reason and we don't know the total mind Of God there's no way we could. He wouldn't be God if we could understand him totally. God has his reasons and seasons of doing things and not doing things. We have to accept God's decisions and timing.
Praise God. JESUS IS THE WAY TRUTH AND LIFE👏🙌
The simple answer is “free will” . It’s not all great when humans have free will !
Hi Luis, I think Hugh Ross explained it very well, but he was trying to give you the whole picture instead of a basic starting point.
It basically comes down to this:
If humans are to have free will, then they need to be able to freely commit evil as much as good.
If God stops evil every time it happens, then it wouldn't be free will at all.
As much as it hurts, He has to allow us to do (mostly) anything in order for our obedience to Him to mean anything.
Hope this helps.
Thanks for your input. As you correctly point out, the question of freedom answers why God allows the adult to commit the crime, but does not respond to the more important question of why allow the innocent victim to be abused? That's like you and I arguing that we are going to let a rapist come into our child's bedroom and do whatever he wants to our child because we don't want to curb the rapist's free will. Do you see the problem?
@@eismscience Yes I understand, and it feels like he should intervene in such cases. However, I would also argue that the vast majority of evil doing victimizes innocent people, even if the people aren't AS innocent as a little child. Therefore, by your argument, he would still have to intervene most, if not all the time. This would circle back to my first reasoning of how such divine actions would make our free will next to meaningless.
Its either you want everyone to be lobotomized and programmed to be the perfect robot, or you want everyone to have the freedom to make their own choices (which will unfortunately have rapists, murderers, cheaters, etc).
@eismscience God walked with us in the garden until we rejected him. At that time, humanity fell and was separated from God. We, as he warned, died, spiritually. Your response here presupposes that little children are "innocent" and the adult is an "evil doer". I understand that we obviously look at a child as innocent, however, after the fall, none are innocent. All have fallen short to his perfect goodness. Humanity left him and said we know better and we can do it on our own. Only in his perfect love and mercy, does HE pursue us after we rejected him. He has given us the gift of grace and eternal union with him through his son, but he's not going to force it on anyone. So, until we freely choose the covering of his sacrifice because we understand that we're not good and innocent and aren't capable of it without his goodness in us, we are still in a state of rejecting him. We can't have it both ways of wanting him to be in control to blame for evil while wanting to be our own gods.
It is not difficult to accept. it is difficult when you have decided from the beginning to rejected the explanation Dr Ross is giving you.
I like how he said that he doesn't have specific data about the molested child so he cannot answer it directly. Most of the time we ask questions without knowing the full picture, and being a scientist, Hugh Ross wants to investigate data first before proving conclusions to the matter. I always get the same question from unbelievers, and I also usually reply and asks for more details before really answering.
Thanks for your input. What's the difference between asking for more information and not having an answer? Also, at what point is "enough information" reached?
@@eismscience I could apply that to God, visual evidence seems to be the only evidence atheists want.
Isn't the Fine-tuning of the Universe , which is growing through scientific discovery evidence for you?
@@eismscienceYour question is my question and everything related to it, the injustice ( you will read lots of it in psalms and the the “prophets”. And of course Job, the answer for me was “heart”… God judges the heart. Building on that would be a longer answer. However I think God will answer it the way you will understand.
16:51 The answer to this question is that it only appears that the child suffers more on earth. But when that priest dies, he will probably have to spend eternity in a lake of hell fire. So, in that sense, the priest does and will suffer more.
I passed the test most everyone fails, and soon i will share all the answers… 🦋
Everything is frequency so is frequency physical or is it non-physical
Science recognizes the outcome of evil - decay, death, pain, suffering. The laws of physics bring issues such as more work, waste of time as results of evil. Much scientific work relates to the intervention in these consequences. Thus we work hard at reducing work. We attempt to delay death. We look for ways to reduce the amount of pain and suffering. I think the argument is scientific even if not to specific instances.
Yes, to the extent that I understand your comment, I think you're right. I have a video where I try to put some mathematical teeth on this idea by connecting morality to the principle of least action. Take a glance at it and let me know if you want to meet on Zoom to talk about it. Thanks for having taken the time to comment.
The Lord has created a massive universe and is finely tuned and complex in many ways we don’t even understand. It was all created in a way that sustains life on this earth - as far as I’m concerned, there is ample evidence that God exists. But each person has to make a decision whether or not we want to encounter Him. He won’t force each person to have a relationship with Him. All one has to do is to ask God to reveal himself to you and he will. I think even the most skeptical people should at least try this to rule out the possibility that God exists.
Thanks for your input. I agree with you. In this video, I am simply playing Devil's advocate and trying to argue from a non-believer's perspective.
Ross doesn’t stumble as your opening comments suggest. He answers in a clear and compelling way how God in his love gave his creatures free will which they used for evil.
What free will? According to the book of Romans, God predestined all things including the elect, meaning there is no free will,
Romans 8, 29-30
If there is any good there is 100% good. If there is any love there is 100% love. In order to provide space for repentance some people must be permitted sin to a degree. The earth is a temporary place for us work out our salvation. Such a place could not be a heaven on earth.
At minute 22, the moderator asks for forgiveness. Words matter; would a rebellious ('aetheist') spirit ask this - doubtful. There is hope and a want to believe by the moderator (devil's advocate). Where there's Hope, there's Faith; where there's Faith, there's Love. Repent And accept Yahua's Grace.
I like a lot of Dr Ross's arguments in other contexts. But here, I don't think that his answers make much sense. If people's actions are driven by 'strong free-will', then they are not driven by fundamental laws of nature. If God can intervene through miracles , but not too often, then why wouldn't God save the interventions for just the most egregious suffering of innocents, such as the molestation of children, many of whom go on to commit suicide or live terrible lives because of their innocent suffering. Many people die in natural disasters (and perhaps suffer some damnation) having never heard the 'Christian message', and certainly did so in previous aeons.
As a good, loving, parent, you might, in fact, need to inflict a small, proportionate, amount of suffering on a child in order for them to understand, age-appropriate, personal responsibility (e.g. not getting a wished-for present or being grounded). But you must not, and would not, inflict serious physical, mental or emotional harm or abuse. And yet Dr Ross argues and asks us to accept that an all-loving and all-powerful God is perfectly justified in inflicting any level of suffering or harm, even on those who made no individual, free-will, decisions, as part of events. And then he answers that he can't comment on individual cases of such natural suffering / evil because the laws only apply to groups. My ears are very much open on this topic, as I follow a Christian-Buddhist path as best I can, but I don't find any of Dr Ross's arguments here either convincing or sensible. I think certain Process Theologies, where God is all-loving but not all powerful, and not necessarily the creator of all that is, make far more sense of Christ's message.
God gave man free will. If man chooses to be evil how is that on God?
Annaj, I think the reasoning goes something like this. If you have kids, I think you'll understand. We are humans and are neither all-good nor all-powerful, yet we have the natural sense to protect our children from being raped. God, who is said to be all-good and all-powerful, apparently does not prevent his own children from being raped, which calls into question what is meant by his goodness and power. The incongruent nature of the claim is what the questioning is about. I hope that makes sense.
It is also a parents responsibility to teach children about God. If a child is brought up in household that love and fear God then you would see the different Also a child is spiritually protected throughout one's life if they are taught just how important it is to put God first always.
Does evil exist? If ''Yes'' then it must've been created.
Did God create evil? If ''No'' then there must be more than one God/Creator.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God was just 'all loving' and there are two forces in the Scripture, LORD who is the Prince of the Earth and the author of ALL evil. Many people confuse God and the LORD as meaning the same, but they represent two separate deities or forces that control the people’s minds and hearts in which they hold sway. The name of the LORD is used for a title of a different god and deity than God. God is also called El by the Hebrews (Phoenicians) and is defined as the “most High God.” When the word God of El is used, it often refers to the supreme and almighty or the heavens and earth’s creator as a type of force over and within mankind that gives them the Holy Spirit represented by light, wisdom, strength, and the power of effect. The molesters and evil you speak of is because these fallen angels AKA people are NOT serving God, but the LORD aka Satan.
Thanks for your comment. To the extent that I understand what you've written, I think your answer could be satisfactory for a believer. What I'm trying to get across is that from a purely scientific or logical standpoint, it doesn't jibe.
@@eismscience its not satisfactory for Christians, the Lord isn't Satan, your both confused!
Dr.Michael Heiser videos can educate you both on evil, the absence of Goodness.
The Lord, LORD, and God are the same. The Bible teaches one diety. Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit = one God who exists in three persons.
I am certainly not as intelligent as Dr. Ross or anyone else, and I will be the first to claim I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but God's Word is helpful in understanding why their is evil in the world, it is called sin or rebellion against God who is good, who is Holy and Just. As far as trying to explain why a good God would allow a child to be molested by a priest or a pastor, or anyone for that matter to a non-Christian, who is looking for a scientific answer, is incredibly difficult without using the Scriptures, which they don't believe in. I think Dr. Ross gave a reasonable of an explanation as possible.
Why God does not use his power to stop an evil act from happening to a child, or stop other evils like the holocaust, we may never understand this side of heaven. He didn't stop an evil act from happening to his child either. In fact it pleased him to crush him. It doesn't make sense to our human finite minds.. Although we can know some things about God from his revealed word, we cannot comprehend everything about him, after all he is God. And although he does not stop evil acts from happening He has done something about the evil that separates us from him, he came into the world he created to be born as a man, to give his life, the righteous for the unrighteous. The cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, they will suppress the truth that they know about God no matter what evidence is given to them.
@@kimberlyo2037 Thanks for your comment. I agree with you but, at the same time, I think we should be honest and objective enough to admit that to a non-believer, the logic is simply not there.
@@eismscience I'm not sure it is possible to use logic in regards to why God allows evil. Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! the depth. Psalm 107:8 Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men! Proverbs 25:3Rather than using logic or evidence of some kind it may be more effective to share the gospel since the end goal would be the conversion of the unbeliever, that the unbeliever gets saved.
The gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes. Romans 1:16-17
So, I do think Dr. Ross may have done a better job in using the unbeliever's question about evil to lead them to an understanding of the gospel.
4:48 Science has provided evidence for a single intelligent source of everything.
You didn't answer the question about the molested child.
Its hard to explain if your whole reason for not believing is because you think that God allows evil where do you get that idea from? On what grounds does it even make Sense? I believe good is written on out hearts/souls/minds. You can say it just your own ideas and not God's will that we do good. Why is it you care to protect your family? You may want to survive yourself but how to you justify your feelings for protecting anyone but your self? If you say love that's meaning! If you say instinct that's meaning! You basically can't justify any feelings or any instincts in a meaningless universe. If it was meaningless it would just be all chaos and you wouldn't even be able to comprehend words, feelings, ideas etc..... but having any feeling at all on a way that a universe should be as a human you're giving it the very meaning you can't have without a God.
Darknes (ORIGINAL SIN) sees the light and can not comprehend it.
Itchy ears only hears what it wants to for justification of there own agendas.
GOD is quantum !
I was confronted by a friend with *_his_* "Ultimate question", "How can the creation of an all loving and perfect God who has full foreknowledge, ever go wrong in any way or turn to poison and evil?"
I found this a hard question to answer.
Because of love. We all want love but can't have it without freewill/evil. But we still choose love over being robots.
8:42 God proposed to man that he join him to wipe out evil and man says no thanks. Then they blame God for evil. Hmm 😒 isn't that special.
I would have watched if the real devil was on.
Dr Ross did an excellent job. Not sure how you thought he struggled. Lol.
God makes all new again. Those innocents that have been subjected to evil during their lifetime, are renewed and released from those painful memories much like a patient under anesthesia doesn’t remember the physical pain of the operation.
God is control of eternal life after a Earthly life. Some “good “ people are instrumental in the free choice actions of others choosing “evil”. God renews all that serve him.
You simply are missing THE essential power of God. He is capable of washing it all clean, mentally, spiritually in the hereafter dimension of eternal life in heaven.
What pain is experienced here are erased from the memory of the flesh.
You simply don’t understand the very essence of the divine creator. Earth is just a limited process of the flesh.
Thanks for taking the time to comment. What I've tried to get across in the exchange is that Dr. Ross's reasoning is fine for a Christian, as you have demonstrated in your response, but from a non-Christian, purely rational perspective, something doesn't jibe. If we as humans would not allow our own children to be sexually abused, and we are far from all-powerful and all-good, then how can God allow it? Again, from a Christian perspective, one can use faith and simply make the contradiction disappear, but from a purely logical point of view, it is much more difficult. It's not impossible, as I will aim to show in future videos, but in my humble opinion, Dr. Ross does not achieve it here.
Thanks again for your comment.
Evil is as Evil Does ! Romans5: 12 ...through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned...
When Adam chose to follow Satan's advice, he chose to follow Satan and to alienate himself and his descendents from God . We are in Satan's World praying for Jesus' return and for God's kingdom to come , for His will to be done on earth as it is in heaven! Matt6: 9to13...deliver us from evil !
Hugh Ross is coming from a Christian standpoint which is far from biblical script.
Btw, great questions Luis!
Let's open the Book....
Isaiah 45:7
' I form light and create darkness, I make peace and create evil. I, YHWH do ·ALL· these things.'
Amos 3:6
....... shall there be evil in a city and YHWH has not done it?
Job 42:11
2 or 3 witnesses establish a matter has been met here.
Very interesting, got more?
Do you even know the context of those verses?
Evil is the absence of Good it isn't created, it exists because Free will beings have choices, not all those choices are Good!
Romans 12:19
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Also I believe the context is more better translated to adversity not evil anyways is that specific context
That evil exists in our universe and our lives, and that we can and often do commit or participate in acts of evil, is a tragedy. The question of why a loving God would allow it on the beings of His creation is a mystery. So let us examine the issue thusly:
In a world where God exists, the experience of those who suffer evil but who have been redeemed and found salvation is akin to a person suffering greatly from an accident or illness but who overcomes it to become whole and healthy again, which by every measure makes one stronger and by far more appreciative of life.
In a world where God does not exist, and yet people still suffer evil but cannot be redeemed nor find salvation, well in that world evil wins.
The fact that Love exists despite all the Evil in the world proves evil can be overcome, in my humble opinion. And what is more profound in a world of evil other than Sacrificial Love? Nothing.
Hence, if we believe and live in faith, we will meet God at the foot of the Cross.
Thanks for your input. What you've written makes sense from the perspective of a person who believes in Christianity, but is harder to follow from a scientific perspective. That's what I have tried to get across in my talk with Dr. Ross.
@@eismscience You're welcome and thank you for interviewing Dr Ross and having these conversations. Certainly from a scientific viewpoint, it appears difficult to reconcile faith and science. But as David Hume examined, science can tell us only what "is" not what we "ought" to do with what is. It is my sincere belief that there is no such thing as a faithless human. Inevitably each of us must decide what we ought to do with what is (this is truly revealed in our conduct to one another, not in what one simply says), hence at the foundation of our being we must place our faith in a belief in something, even if we place it in something as meaningless as Nihilism.