Unfiltered reaction to "Can You Tell if Someone has Autism?"
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
- Original video: • Can You Tell If Someon...
People in video:
Ian: / ian_s_donley
Adin: / adinboyer
Austin: / livingdeadskeleton
Abbey: / hatsbyabbey
Christine: / christineabbeysmom
Veronica: / veronicaa_palermo
James: hiblogimdad.com/
Gen: / @gen
Timestamps:
Intro 00:00-01:18
Internalized ableism 01:19-07:48
Integrating autistics into society 07:49-19:10
Autistic Representation 19:11-36:01
Autism and Dating 36:02-46:14
Autistic Strengths 46:15-53:59
Last thoughts 54:00-55:33
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What Abby’s mom said rubbed me the wrong way from the get go because as a high masking individual, being autistic is why I have chronic migraines, have dealt with depression from my toddler years and even made it easier for people to abuse my boundaries and consent. So, being able to make eye contact isn’t that great when you consider all the ways autism impacts your life
I relate to this heavy
It's horrible, I'm mostly high masking as well but eye contact just kills me, and it seems like I have less stamina as time goes on
this exactly. i had a psychiatrist i saw and when i told her i was autistic she asked "would you agree with that diagnoses?" when i said yes, she kinda rolled her eyes. at the end of the appointment she goes, "well for what it's worth, despite your "autism" (she used air quotes) i think you're quite social." like yes thank you i can hold a conversation and smile and be pleasant but at the end of the day, my battery is completely drained, i have to psych myself up to do simple tasks, i have meltdowns in private, and get sick to my stomach almost every day. but yeah, in her mind, because i could smile and talk, my autism was air quotes "autism"
God this is so relatable. As a diagnosed level 1 autistic I find it so hard to cope with the expectations placed on me. It’s like people are ok with me having an autistic meltdown here and there as long as it doesn’t impact my ability to behave just like a NT would. But I’m not NT!!! I feel like I’m constantly letting people down and falling short because people expect to have a job and to be able to hold it together and I just can’t. I’ve felt so ashamed about being unemployed for so long because I have the ability to appear NT because I did appear to way for so many years. I understand why Abby’s mum said what she said but my god does it feel like a punch to the gut.
100%
What abby's mum said about the spectrum being too broad really upset me. As a late diagnosed autistic, even with a extremely loving family, I find it so hard to let people in. NO ONE and I mean NO ONE has every truly seen how much I struggle. comments like the one Abby's Mum made really invalidate that because of her "thou hasn't suffered like I have" and my response to that is OF COURSE I haven't. I'M NOT YOU. everyone struggles differently and expresses it differently. I knew from a young age that my struggles looked different, as in, they presented different. I had to teach myself to show struggle in a NT way so people would listen. I've now lost myself, because even in my darkest moments with my deepest struggles people don't see it because they don't understand how struggle naturally presents IN ME. like you pointed out Abby's Mum is doing a lot of projecting. and what I would say to her is "As an autistic woman my DIFFERENT struggles, (or in your eyes 'lack of struggles') should not then invalidate all the hard work and love you have put in to helping your daughter." I would also remind her that she herself is not autistic and while she may understand her daughter's autism, THAT is who you are understand, YOUR DAUGHTER. people expect allists to act a certain way when they're struggling, and while different, there is this expectation put on disabled, especially autistic people to present their struggles a certain way. but the thing is, all of my struggles impact my non-autistic struggles. what I mean is, queer autistics are obviously going to have different looking struggles, autistic people of colour are going to have different struggles. none should invalitae the other which I think is what Abby's mum is afraid of is her hard work with her daughter not being recognised. which I can understand.
Edit: I would also add that what she said really enforces this message that “if you’re happy you can’t be autistic” it’s really pushes the idea that autistic people are defined constantly by their deficits. She contradicted herself by pointing out what amazing things the autistic people can do by, in a way, saying that “you have to compensate that skill set and strengths by struggling x amount” which makes me really sad
I relate to this very much. I always feel like I have to act a certain way.
@@Olivia-jp4cx yeah. Same. Im sick of pressure. It brings a lot of guilt. Im very depressed right now. Dont even want to get out of bed. I dont want to socialize period. Wtf cant employers understand this. My auto immune condition isnt getting better either because im always scared and stressed. Sorry for the rant. No, the spectrum isnt too broad. We just mask more or better or whatever. 😢
@@etcwhatever I definitely understand, I get very depressed when I work too. I get burnt out easily but my family doesn’t understand that so they always expect more from me and then it just gets worse. Im happy you shared with me. I wish you the best, and you are not alone ❤️
I don't have a formal diagnosis, but I'm pretty sure I'm on the spectrum. I'm in my 40s. I have a wife and 2 kids. What Abby's mom said was hurtful to me, personally.
I don't have the support needs of someone like Abby, but without assistance, there's plenty of things I can't do. The label helps me not feel like a loser. I just have a harder time with life.
@@Olivia-jp4cx thank you. I wish you the best too. That somehow you can go easy on yourself and find someone who can support. If family doesnt understand maybe a friend who is a true friend.
The reason I was upset with the mother is that as a person coming to the party at 32 who had jobs and has a house, husband and child it was very self centred to assume that someone in my boat hasnt struggled. It's attitudes like hers that make me feel like a failure, like someone unworthy of understanding and accommodations. It honestly felt like a complete invalidation and as someone who should know better it was more hurtful.
Yes, I generally find the idea of innocence and autism really invalidating. I'm a teenager who has no interest in the kinds of things that are considered mature and many teenagers are into like dating and drugs and alcohol, and I get called pure for it but I've also gone through so much more trauma than most people, which influence my aversions as well, so saying someone is pure is really infantilizing and doesn't acknowledge what they go through.
I hate hearing that too. It irks me especially when I know they're *not* talking about me (39, late diagnosed), because I'm high masking & they're referring to someone else who's presentation is different than mine. It always sounds condiscending. And I know most of the time it's not at all meant that way, but sometimes it's the hardest thing for me to do to NOT look at them in the eye in a very uncomfortable way and say "examine that statement, & the tone you said it in. Imagine someone saying that to you. Now I dare you to say it again to the person you were thinking of's face"
I'm starting to feel like to them it's a more benign segregation tactic. We make them uncomfortable. It's just a fact. But it's never in a harmful way, so they can't other us by overtly punishing us. So they infantilise us. It also allows them to filter our experiences through their perception in a way that make sense to them.
But please don't misunderstand my tone. I am angry about it, but not in a "I'm personally mad with every person who's ignorant" kind of way, but more of a "society doesn't HAVE to be this way, yet people keep choosing to ignore the systemic solutions that could solve MOST people's problems", kind of way. Needless to say, we live in interesting times...
What Abby's mom said makes me think of vision problems as a rebuttal. You can have impaired vision that's basically not noticeable. Maybe you need reading glasses. You can have impairments in vision of levels increasing all the way up to blindness. It's all vision problems though. You can have "subclinical" autism traits. You can have autism traits to the degree that it effects you enough to need help. You can have autism traits to the degree that you lack functionality as defined by mainstream society. It can vary so largely, and she's confused because she thinks of autism like blindness instead of like having a vision impairment. It's not all or nothing and it is describing the same system still. The autism spectrum being nonlinear is a hard concept though, so it's not as straightforward to understand as having vision impairments.
Edit: And I feel the need to explain this because I, like many, found her comments triggering as a late diagnosed AuDHDer. I've been unemployed for over a year due to severe burnout, and that's the only reason I fought to be diagnosed. I've lost so many jobs and friendships and relationships. Living under the radar with low support needs that were not being met is what led me into a place where I'm so burned out that my support needs are much higher now. I have become disabled over time by not having my needs recognized in the first place.
Im burned out too. I hope its getting better for you. Somedays i dont want to live anymore.
@@etcwhateverI hope you keep finding reasons to stick around 💚
@@user-di9wo4qy1o thanks for the kindness. Its tricky. I hope youre right and stuff improves. I wish you all the best.
Re: the addition of the "Edit" paragraph... O O F. Can relate. I bet if I showed my partner, author unknown, they'd contribute it to me. Heck, I'm certain that in the near future, I could be convinced that I had written this once my memory of it expires.
@@etcwhateverit's a struggle sometimes, for sure. Please believe that there is ALWAYS someone who cares, even if it doesn't feel like it, even if they don't know you and you don't know them. That's the beauty of being a social species, even if we kind of suck at it! 😂
While I was in the process of being diagnosed with ASD, my old psychiatrist used the term "asperger's" repeatedly, even after I told him about my grandmother surviving the Holocaust. People need to realize that "asperger's" is a eugenics term
Was he conected with the natsis?
@@thijsjongyes
@@thijsjong yes, very much so.
To quote Herwig Czech:
"He joined several organizations affiliated with the NSDAP (although not the Nazi party itself), publicly legitimized 'race hygiene' policies including forced sterilizations and, on several occasions, actively cooperated with the child 'euthanasia' program."
more on his wikipedia page if you're further interested.
It's not a eugenics term per se it's his surname - which Lorna Wing used to reference one type of Autism that was at the time considered (as least by Asperger's) to be separate from 'Kanner's' Autism which was more associated with language delay/absence. But yes he was heavily connected to the 'euthanasia' program against disabled people being a psychiatrist in Nazi Germany basically required it, unless you fled or wanted a demotion. Asperger's Children by Sheffer is an excellent book that explains his actions in detail. Basically, he looked at children with features associated with Autism as having a sort of personality disorder that prevented them from having the 'typical' social motivations but had average or high intelligence. He believed that because of their intelligence, they would have use in the Nazi regime. He did not extend this to females who presented with similar 'behaviours' however.
oh wow I never knew that was why the term is not used anymore. thank, you sincerely for sharing :)
what abbey’s mom is saying- TO ME- feels like “i had to fight for her, and she has to fight so hard so she’s *earned* the title of autistic” and really taking seeing her daughter as an inspiration to heart, which i guess could be a good thing? maybe?
but i don’t see how she thinks she has any authority with what people label themselves as..? she doesn’t know all these strangers and just because she’s raising an autistic person doesn’t mean she knows it all, like a white family doesn’t know everything about black culture because they adopted a black child
and it’s also concerning how abbey calls the “haters” “ugly and severely overweight”
she likely didn’t obtain that view on her own so i’m just side eye-ing the ways her mom talks about people, specifically those her mom doesn’t like..
and i’m surprised no one said anything- that we know of- to that statement.
as well as no one saying anything to the constant repeating of asperger’s
i’d like to give abbey’s mom some grace but i have personal feelings about the things said (and about parents in general) so it’s hard for my brain to want to leave space for that and i hope this all was just a bad example of what they’re about and it’s not always like this for them
I mean if anything I’m not shocked since white folks tend to make thing about them and expect people to align what they think. Of course not all like that but a good majority of them I’ve met been at some extend like this in varied ways 😅
I dont think she realizes that the entire reason that it was such a struggle for her to get Abby the care she needs is due to the very stigmas and stereotypes that she is defending.
I am also side-eyeing that "ugly and severely overweight" comment. That doesn't sound like something she would've come up with on her own.
While I agree with you, I think Abbeys mom had a twinge of validity when she noted that autism has become a trend. Which in some ways, it has.
I don't like how she explained her point, I likely see it differently, but there definitely are people out there, taking face surface information about what it means to be autistic,,, and then calling themselves autistic with no intention of ever trying to get a diagnosis. I don't necessarily think those people are doing it for financial or social gain but in a sense I think the Internet has left a lot of people jaded and willfully ignorant with a touch of fomo. But that's literally almost EVERY well known disorder or disability. Like OCD or BPD. Idk Abbeys mom wasn't wrong when she said some people shouldn't be calling themselves autistic bc of a single autistic trait, but I'd like to believe that's the loud minority of people, and mostly exclusive to the war grounds of tik Tok comment sections.
I also rlly don't like that Abbeys mom said she doesnt think someone could be autistic bc they didn't have speech therapy or they have kids and a job like GIRLL not every autistic person is high needs.
(Also clarifying again, I don't disagree with you, I was just adding a bit more to the discussion ab specifically calling autism "trendy")
@cecebruh6287 with all due respect, the only people who care about kids misdiagnosing themselves with autism are non-autistic people.
First of all, most of the people being fake claimed are either diagnosed or very obviously autistic.
Secondly, you can't "steal" any accomodations from autistic ppl with a self diagnosis. All they'll have access to are online communities, educational resources, and coping strategies. By the time they realize they aren't autistic, they will walk away feeling more welcoming and accepting of autistic ppl and will likely advocate for our rights.
My autism prevents me from being able to fully take care of myself properly without a caretaker and I could really care less if a middle schooler misdiagnosing themselves with autism starts flapping their hands or playing with stim toys to release the stress of school and puberty.
well she did. And you know alot of women internalise beauty standards from very young so looks is a common insult. Abby is her own person she said it with her own mouth she isnt an idiot@@LilChuunosuke
I agree with what you said about what was problematic from Abbey’s mom.
It’s difficult, because I can imagine that her defensive tendency to maintain a rigid definition of what is considered autistic or on the spectrum comes from how she is treated while she is trying to fight for accommodations and resources for Abbey. The way that the government requires that you essentially build a legal case for why some is disabled to the point of needing benefits or government funded accommodations is deficit based and aggressively so. You have to prove, not just that you HAVE a disability, but how every single deficit translates to a need for help. The amount of time that goes into that paperwork and the way it drills deficit-based thinking into your head is substantial. My partner can’t even do her own paperwork, because it obliterates her self esteem and makes her feel worthless and useless. So I can imagine Abbey’s mom has had to argue again and again, “SHE IS DISABLED. SHE CAN’T DO THIS AND THAT” just to get the very basics. It affects how you see your circumstances.
If autism becomes a “difference” instead of a “disability,” it’s only going to be that much harder to argue your case when trying to access accommodations.
Thank you for sharing this it really changes my perspective on some of the mom's views. I think that is important context.
@@stephenieolson8535 But autism isn't a difference when diagnosed. It has to cause major problems in your life or you don't get diagnosed. The diagnostic manuals require this. I think the people who claim that autism is just a difference mostly aren't being honest with themselves. They don't want to see themselves as disabled. They see only the positives and ignore their deficits. A few people might have figured out how to work around a lot of their problems and be living better. But overall people with lower support needs have higher suicide rates.This shows that people with lower support needs still need help and it is more than a difference.
@@Catlily5 I whole heartedly agree. I think my phrasing was unclear. In my previous comment, I was speaking from the perspective of Abbey’s mom’s potential fears.
@@stephenieolson8535 Oh, that makes sense!
I really think the idea that autism equals innocence/honesty is flat out wrong. I think that idea enforces the "forever child" trope that a lot of us are stuck with. I can be just as dishonest as any neurotypical. The idea that all autistics retain this innocence is silly. If we are lucky we all turn into adults with wants and needs. infantilizing all disabled adults is dangerous and wrong.
I think that we tend to be more honest. But it is certainly not a given. I knew one autistic guy who lied non-stop.
Regarding Christine's questionable opinions on the various topics, imo I think the main issue is that the majority of older people generally have more reactionary views and are just not trying to learn about the world as much. Her view of autism is set in stone because she doesn't have the time and/or want to put in the effort to learn new information and expand her understanding of the concept of autism. An example of this is her use of the term asperger's, which hasn't been an official diagnosis in the US for over a decade now and she still uses the term. Similarly with her gatekeep-ey views on autistic representation. We see this in many other social issues as well, such as older people being more likely to be homophobic, racist, misogynistic, etc.
To be clear, older people are not a monolith and still very much have the ability to learn new skills and test their views, many are just too busy or care too much about the "investment horizon" of learning something new. I have many older friends personally with kids/grandkids who have picked up a new instrument, started learning a new language, abandoned their homophobic views, etc, but they are certainly not in the majority.
spot on... from one of those old people! technically I'm middle aged, late diagnosed autistic. I had an Asperger diagnosis ages and ages ago (but also in adulthood), but I actually came to terms with what it meant and got a new diagnosis under DSM5 to just sort of put the autistic label fully on myself. and to finally have a real doctor spell out all my support needs, even for level 1, it was invaluable advice. Before tiktok even existed, I spent years studying, exposing myself to new voices, coming to terms with what it meant to be "actually autistic" before getting that second assessment. christine baffles me to dismiss people like me so casually. she's pretty much actively saying the term asperger should come back and all that it meant, the distinction it offered her own child to contrast with is gone, but it doesn't have to be that way Christine!
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I disagree with your assessment of why this person clings to this terminology despite it's widely-known history. As I mentioned elsewhere in this comment section: I theorize she is attached to it's use because it allows her to clearly delineate people she views as 'having Asperger's' from those who she considers 'really autistic:' people having similar support needs to her daughter. I believe she is already aware about the discourse around it and not afraid of being misunderstood and understands the other people present in the room to also be versed in the current discourse around language application regarding autism, which is why she feels the need to capitulate by repeatedly saying 'pardon the term although she would resent calling people with different support needs 'autistic.'
@@Authentistic-ism when you say it was helpful to have a doctor spell out your support needs, did they give you any new insights or practical tips that you hadn't already realized before on your own though? I'm just confused because I do get how a label/diagnosis can provide validation or comfort, but not sure how valuable it really is (unless you need it for accommodations etc). I know I have various weird traits/challenges that have always made life difficult, but I've generally felt like I had to figure them out on my own. I've been able to manage pretty well in some regards but really badly in others. Advice from professionals either echoed what I already knew or wasn't doable for me at that point in time. So while I've been exploring the idea of being neurodivergent for months, I'm not sure I have the right to claim an official label, and can a professional really have a better understanding of my needs than I could gain from trying various things out myself? Sorry if this is long-winded, just trying to understand what the value of such a diagnosis would be.
exactly. and that is why I am mad. I do not think the girl making this video understands that she is selfish. Christine is selfish because she does not want to understand and learn more about it. And this will also affect her own daughter. I do not know why the person in the video is defending it. I understand tiktok comments can go too far sometimes but these kinds of things affect people in their everyday life so they have a right to be mad. It is like if there was a video of someone saying something racist and they are still stubborn about it. You cannot give leeway once u realise it isnt because they "dont know better" they do they just dont gaf.
I am one of the 15% of autistics who works. and boy, do I struggle. however, I do seriously wonder how many employed people are simply not diagnosed. I'm late realized autistic, 31 years old, which is quite sad considering I work in mental health nursing. I can now look back on certain people in my life and think, oh my gosh, they were likely undiagnosed autistic too. (not that I can credibly diagnose them obviously!) but I do wonder how much that statistic might change if all the people struggling to work full time and maintain all of life's "necessities" (friendships, maintaining a home, etc) are simply struggling because of being undiagnosed autistic. then they end up with burnout, chronic illness, etc.
I completely agree with you re your point about accommodations around 13:30 min. who wouldn't benefit from the grocery store being less stimulating?
also totally agree about the disabled community being "warning signs." when we aren't doing well, it means something in society is broken. it's only a matter of time before it gets bad enough it affects everyone but the 1%.
really excellent video and commentary, thank you for sharing.
hey, im 27 going through the process now. im being diagnosed with adhd, autism and EDS. As well as dermatillomania. ive worked full time since i left school in low pay hospitality. ive been signed off work due to 'stress' and anxiety/depression meltdowns and burnout many times.
@@toni5543 I'm sorry to hear you're going through this, and I hope you get the answers and support you need. I have EDS as well but no specialists will see me for it in my area despite so many worsening symptoms. my family doctor is thankfully trying his hardest. the struggle never ends.
solidarity my friend, I'm holding onto hope things will get better for us all.
@@toni5543 I honestly thought I replied already but I must not have hit send!
you have my solidarity and support. my heart goes out to you and I hope you get the answers and support you need.
I have EDS and POTS too and am currently being punted from one support to another while my family doctor tries to figure out how to help me. (he is trying his hardest which I am very grateful for)
(also not trying to detract from your own struggles just wanting to empathize through my own experiences as we NDs tend to do!)
I am also a working autistic and I feel like I really am not meant to. I never had a choice. If I work over 35 hours in a week, my body starts to shut down. Fainting spells, temporary paralysis, etc. I had to sacrifice a lot of things like college & the ability to drive just so I could pay all my bills without putting my life in danger. Even when I'm only working around 30, sometimes I struggle to feed myself and keep up with household chores because I am so physically drained.
I can acknowledge that even being able to work at all is a privilege, but people need to understand that I do so out of necessity at the sacrifice of my own health. My "privilege" has put me in the hospital even though I am barely scraping by.
Sigh I’m also the 15% 😭 I feel you. I been working since 18 and I didn’t really know I was masking all this time and when I struggled I didn’t know why. I work in healthcare now and it made me realize so much of my needs but it’s scary because I can’t figure out where I need to work. I’m just stuck at jobs until I break or I (god forbid) get fired
I got fired from a job for being autistic and I feel like we are having these discussions with people who don't have power in society. I'm grateful to open up the discussion but until these corporations start understanding what's up I have NO faith in getting benefits from our larger society. I have been mocked every time I have talked about being autistic.
yeah, cuz when something is outside of the norm, most people dislike it until they can tell it's good (according to society's standards) and well, sadly for most individuals having to accommodate is always annoying, so autism is kinda a nuisance in that sense. And I get it, I wish myself that it weren't like this but it's what we've got.
I don't see rapid change in this sadly, autism is just so weird, so outside the norm in stuff that NTs so often and reliably so use to have a feeling around people
it's truly exhausting to be autistic, an exhausting card to be dealt. It's kind of necessary to have a support group of sorts to fall back on when life inevitably stresses you out
My roommate got fired from a coffee shop for "not being friendly enough" which was a sly cover for how they were discriminating against her. She sued and won.
@@graceperez8759 I should’ve sued. I was harassed by my all male IT team but it truth their karma is going to be so weird and bad due to their behavior it’s going to be worked
out anyways. I wrote an email to my two managers saying they were absolute disappointing people who fumbled the ball and let a vulnerable hard working person get treated like trash for no reason. Let’s talk about the narcissistic abuse we have to deal with as autistic people too. I’m glad your friend was able to receive what was due to her. Blessings
@@quintboredom yes absolutely my friend. I almost think we’re going to have to start some kind of autism coalition to demand workforce support. The only way people will listen if we can organize but that may be more up the high functioning autistics to push for social changes. What we deal with is hard and deeply painful and we don’t get understood from a place of empathy but I do have faith. Xo wishing you the best
@@loveinthematrixive been seriously bullied in the workplace on my favorite job. 😢 now i have a job that has too many meetings, not enough structure and rules. I feel terrible. Ive been in sick leave for 8 months and im extremely depressed and i have chronic pain. Almost died from my auto immune disease last august 😢 my manager isnt like a toxic bad person. But he doesnt care to do anything about the accomodations i requested and it makes me feel very insecure. He lets me work from home but if they change his position, another manager can legally make me go in the office as they dont change my contract to remote. And i know its almost impossible to get another job like the one i have now. Masking is getting too difficult
i had speech therapy, i was in special ed, i had no idea i might be autistic until age 35 after having 2 kids. it took years for me to figure out that i am autistic and that helped me realize my kids are autistic and get them diagnosed and get them appropriate accommodations. i have not been successful with employment or with college but i also didn't know i was autistic and never sought accommodations. i feel like the mom thinks she can see how much someone is struggling and makes assumptions about how much someone is struggling.
Fully agree. She seems to think she's an expert who could spot a "real" disabled person from 100 yards away, but is simultaneously struggling to recognize people whose experience with autism was different than her own.
Abby's mom and a lot of people in general really have a hard time with the concept of a spectrum
But we have the "black and white" thinking 😅 i know they mean well mostly. Still its very ironical
I hate it when people say we think in black & white, ESPECIALLY other autistic people, because it simply isn't true. We just see different types of nuance, & need different things explained to us than NT people. Both sides have their blind spots, which is precisely why we need each other. I'm sorry, but they need us as much as we need them & their failure to see that is their "black & white" thinking. We just...
We got a ways to go....
I was with Abbeys mom up until the question about the spectrum expanding. What she said felt INCREDIBLY invalidating to me as a late diagnosed autistic female. I wasn’t diagnosed until I was 38. Does that mean I didn’t struggle ALL my life? Absolutely not. The reason I got diagnosed is because I reached BEYOND my capacity to manage my issues on my own. I got to my 30 and I hit a MASSIVE burnout stage that has been in course for the last 5 years. Handling, managing my own accommodations, and fighting against my autistic urges and needs absolutely destroyed my mental health and my capacity to function. I haven’t had a full time job in the last 6 years. I’m lucky if I can manage 20 hours a week without crashing.
Does that mean I haven’t struggled my whole life because I didn’t get recognized as a child and placed in therapies? NO. As I’ve found out, I’m autistic AND I have ADHD. I’ve had NO friends of my own since I was in middle school. When I moved to highschool I lost my ONE friend. In grade school, most of the kids I played with after school were kids in our neighborhood that played with my sister (2 years older than me) FIRST. Only one friend was MY friend.
YEARS of managing on my own and struggling without accommodations and without an advocate is WHY I’m in my current state. How the hell did no one figure out I was autistic and adhd when I’ve been in therapy and seeing psychologists and psychiatrists since I was in highschool? High masking. I can make myself look GREAT for that short appointment time each week. It’s the time in between when I’m on my own and by myself that people see it.
13:22 this is a phenomenal point. i remember my psychology teacher in high school lived by this philosophy - she was criticized at her sons school for fighting for accommodations, but she expressed consistently that any accommodation his teachers made would benefit the class and it was always true. prep packets for ass assignments, short and simple instructional text, less harsh lighting and other sensory input, etc. so, even if she didn't have neurodivergent students that she knew of, she still had very accommodating classes and we all did well overall.
I was selectively mute as a child and didn't talk (except to my parents and siblings) from age 3 to age 10. I didn't get my autism diagnosis until I was 27. I currently own my own home, have a full-time job, have a bunch of animals I take care of, and lots of hobbies. There have been times I've struggled a lot and other times I haven't. It doesn't mean I'm less autistic, it likely means that I was receiving appropriate accommodations and could actually function. I work from home now where I can control my environment and prevent overstimulation. Four years ago, I worked with the public and had to take days off every other week just to recover from overstimulation. I never had any PTO saved because I'd have to use it to address the overstimulation. Now working from home, I have a ton of banked PTO and I can actually take planned vacations. My needs are being met so I'm not struggling as much. It doesn't mean I'm not autistic because I'm not currently struggling.
I still havent been diagnosed at almost 26 years old and I was semi-verbal until age 19!
It amazes me how many doctors just brush us off as quiet or shy.
I just want to say that your comment really inspires me and gives me hope, so thank you for sharing. I am currently in that spot of having no PTO at any given time due to having to use it as i get it due to burnout or overstimulation. I really hope to get to where you are soon. 💓
@@hansolohansoloI'm right there with you (even with working from home). But I couldn't do this at all right now if I wasn't working from home. It makes a huge difference in livelihood. I get to save time and energy. And if I need to do a chore or cook a meal, I can do that right when I need to during a break. I don't have to do it before or after work. I also don't have to pack multiple medications to take them with me. And I can wear more comfortable clothes. Also, no headache-inducing fluorescent lights. Remote work for the win. Good luck!
universities have no real support either. I have worked for my university's disability center nearly as decade its a JOKE
i wasn't diagnosed in college so i couldn't even try to use the disability center, but i heard nightmare stories. even just trying to talk to my professors one on one was a nightmare. i thought one day i was doing the mature, proper thing. i was overwhelmed, had missed some assignments, and felt like i was in a pit i couldn't climb out of. i emailed my professor. i said i'm not trying to give excuses, but just an explanation of how i'm feeling and asking if there was anything i could do to help myself in this class. his email back was the rudest response. he told me that he didn't accept excuses (i was diagnosed with depression and anxiety at the time and mentioned those things in my email) and that if i couldn't "grow up" his class wasn't the place for me.
As a low-support needs person with autism, responding to Abby's mother and to speak to why someone would need a diagnosis despite being able to live a life that resembles a neurotypical person, its validation for the chronic suffering we have faced. Having a life time of anxiety and depression and self-hatred, being constantly judged and misunderstood by others, having an indefinite number of experiences we could never find the words for to understand ourselves and the situation, never being able to stand up for ourselves, feeling isolated and confused our whole life, wondering why everything is so hard for us and not for others, having accomplishments but feeling no sense of reward bc we were miserable the whole journey, being traumatized repeatedly bc of sensory sensitivity and overwhelming emotions, beating ourselves up constantly for being naiive to someones cruelty, and the list goes on and on and on and on. Having a diagnosis is having an answer and we can give ourselves the grace we never knew we deserved. I went through hell in college in pursue what i thought was my dream job to be a teacher only to be put in that environment where im being constantly burnt out and suicidal and chronically ill. Yes one day ill have children, a home and functional job (hopefully), but that doesnt negate anything else ive suffered from and all the shit ive had gone through to get to that which a neurotypical person doesnt have to face. The diagnosis means i can finally advocate for myself against the oppression i have faced
I wish I could add more than one thumbs up for this. I agree Oshibo.... "Having a diagnosis is having an answer and we can give ourselves the grace we never knew we deserved." Mega snaps for this.... yes. I am learning this myself and need to constantly tell myself everyday.
I say "I am autistic" because it's not something I can be separated from. Everything I perceive is from the lens of my autistic brain, I can never not be autistic.
currently crying at "what about me" *quick cut away* lmfao
It cut off so fast I thought I imagined it 😂
@@rendered33 she’s so funny for that lmao
@@rendered33On the video, what minute/second is this found?
Where did this happen?
53:55 (the very end of the material she's reacting to)
I haven't seen the original but maybe Abby goes on to sing awkwardly at this point and cutting it with an abrupt "alright!" is comedic for that reason. Without context I only even noticed it because of these comments, thought I'd provide the timestamp for the people who asked though :)
The mom kinda gives me the ick. The way she comes off as controlling to me gives me flashbacks of my parents trying to control me and it makes me just feel icky, I know she means well but it’s something that did hurt me. Also what she said about the spectrum expanding was a no to me, like the spectrum expanding is because we’re learning more about autism and how autism looks for different people, why would you want to take that away from them? Also more information only helps us
yea......
Nah she’s just an ableist pco
It’s definitely a great team, I love everybody on that video. I also agree this is a “grey team” (I thought you were saying “great” team, the entire time 😅).
I think, the mother, for one of the prompts, was referring to a phenomenon on TikTok were people just wanna be diagnosed with autism simply because they have a stim and that they try to portray autism as cool or hip, without really understanding what autism is or the struggles that (real) autistic people face. I’ve seen that trend be discussed here on RUclips and I think it is a problem.
But I also believe that you’re right too, Irene, Abby’s mom does give off the vibe that she doesn’t open her mind to the idea of neurodiversity expanding to include more individuals who have different types of autistic traits to that of Abby’s. And in some ways she is choosing to stick with stereotypes and using outdated (and somewhat offensive) terminology. She’s too hyper focused on Abby’s being the metaphorical yardstick for what autism is, and not mindful of all the nuances that make up the spectrum and how everybody is equally valid. It is something I’m understanding more, why some people have a problem with her. But overall, I still think everything she says and does comes from a place of love and wanting to protect her daughter, and I don’t really see her encroaching on other peoples lives, so I still have love for her and Abby.
This was great, ngl, this was great 😊 ❤💛❤💛❤❤
GRAY TEAM! GRAY TEAM! GRAY TEAM! 😎👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾🫡
I had already watched the video before you reacted to it, and I must admit that Abbey's mom did give me chills at times (not the good ones). She has good intentions, I see how she loves her daughter and helps her, their beautiful relationship, and I don't think she's a bad person at all. I would obviously not harass her on social media, but I must admit she makes me really uncomfortable at times.
Regarding the supposed trend on TikTok for example : she mentions (not by name) a comedian with a lot of followers and the only ones I can think of are either actually diagnosed, or know a lot about autism and talk about their struggles (that are not "only" sensory issues or a need for stimming). And joking about it in their stand up routine doesn't make it "cool", it's a way to blow off steam, and acknowledge it. Even normalizing it, I would say. I could be wrong, obviously, this is only a feeling I have, and I don't know for sure who she's talking about, but seems to me that if someone doesn't "look" autistic enough for her, she doesn't consider them autistic at all. And she seems to think that low support need autistics have no struggles at all, or at least not more than neurotypical people. That feels very invalidating. This is exactly why so many people go undiagnosed or are only diagnosed later in life after years of struggles, burnout, etc. I understand where that's coming from, recognize her daughter's struggles and all that she had to do to protect her, but that tendency to measure people's right to identify with something only by the amount of (perceived!) struggle they have is only damaging in the end. This is not a competition... It's about finding community and support.
I've been diagnosed at only 45 (thanks to youtube and tiktok, by the way... 😅) and I know my family will never understand that I am "really" autistic. Because I masked my entire life, I hid my meltdowns, I didn't tell them when I was depressed, I only showed them one side of me in order to fit in. They thought I had a good life and I was only being "too sensitive" at times. My mother told me recently that I was "so happy"' as a child. She has no idea that in reality I was extremely anxious and s*****al... And even now, I don't tell her, because I don't wanna make her sad... People didn't see it because I didn't express it in a neurotypical way. That doesn't mean it wasn't there. That doesn't mean I didn't have meltdowns behind closed doors. I went to university, I found a job afterwards (crappy, but anyways...) and at 40 I even managed to change carriers and I have now a good income. I live alone without help, how could I have struggled, right ? Well, I'm in burnout right now, so there's that 😑
By the way, I'm not saying I've struggled as much as Abbey. I'm well aware of my privileges. This is just my way of saying try not to judge how "much" people are autistic based solely on their tiktoks or what you know about their life. It doesn't do anybody any good. Life is not black or white (go grey team ! 😊)
I’m probably in a severe burnout now, but also struggled for many years before getting the diagnosis “Asperger’s”(Low support needs) 7 years ago, nowadays I’m barely able to do anything because of the burnout, so I completely agree with you
I know my wonderful ex who was high- functioning and undiagnosed struggled on a daily basis. Life is so hard for a man with ASD, I adore this man but I know now - he needed his SPACE.
Had I known and understood about ASD back then; so very many things I would have done differently....I wish
why didnt he tell you@@johedges5946
For me what abby mom said it kinda makes me, someone who is one a self discovery journey for a year now, that the struggles that ive had over my entire life isnt vaild. Ive always been hyper aware of how people perceive me, so im not shocked that my autism was overlooked as a child and teen, bc of masking. I mask to make others more comfortable but its extremely exhausting and truly painful. I may not have the same struggles or have a full grasp of what my struggles are yet as much as someone who was diagnosed as a young age. There is a negative view of autism, especially where i live, so i knew almost nothing about autism and when i truly started to learn past sterotypes i saw myself for the first time. But im not like EVERY single autistic person so comments like hers makes me question the validity in my own journey, that im not "autistic enough." the reason i love your channel you never make me feel less than for not having all the same struggles as you. No human is a like, including autistic humans. So im afraid to say im autistic, that i dont know enough to self diagnose, even though ive spent over a year having a breakdown over this pretty much every week bc my feelings are somewhat understood and not just dismissed, that others struggle like i do, it may not be exactly like me but to just know that there are people who kinda think like me and that im not "defective" bc thats how ive felt since a young age.
As a chronically ill autistic person weed has helped so many of my symptoms. It's so frustrating being told I'm a drug addict I've experienced addiction and that is definitely not what's happening here.
I have a lot of empathy for your comment. Weed really helps me a lot as well but even though medicinal cannabis is legal where I live it's illegal to drive with ANY trace of THC in your saliva which means that even though I barely ever have to drive for work I cannot use MC at all if I want to stay employed. It sucks to have to battle one stigma on top of another! 💜
Weed helped me until it didn’t. I became extremely dependent on it to function emotionally, socially, and physically. Unfortunately I can’t use it but I’m happy it works for others with moderate usage.
@@tbo7488 yeah once it gets to the point of dependence it's time for a change
@@Alice_Walker that's awful why are there so many barriers 😭😭😭
I think abbys mom is also worried over the entire zeitgeist of tiktok and how through its lense and focus it does in many ways shifts perspectives and brings a magnifying glass to concepts, ideas, content in a very unnuanced way which in turn 'can' sometimes dilute subject matters.
And its a bit of a historical trend that major leaps in technology shift social standards with it, we all forget that the internet isnsuch a recent creation in the history of humanity and its effects are only starting to be studied in the long term.
Edit: fear from uncertainty esp when you can feel like you are struggling, hell thats when people lashout to grab onto a rope, rigging, another person etc, so i get where the mother comes from, shes treading water and probs deathly worried at losing any steps forward she has made for her daughter.
45:16 i like how Irene pointed out here that Christine is clearly aware of Asperger's being outdated/incorrect but is insistent on continuing to use it. To me that just makes it extra effed up to keep using it, bc it's acknowledging that it's outdated and hurtful but choosing to use it anyway instead of learning the correct terminology.
And it seems that Christine refuses to acknowledge people as autistic or allow people to use the autism label who have less or different support needs than Abbey, so she uses Asp. instead even KNOWING its harm. I know Irene said she wasn't offended by Christine's usage, but i am, and a lot of people are.
I'm even more offended, though, that Christine chooses to invalidate others' experiences and diagnoses as if it will affect Abbey's in any way. The concept of autism being a spectrum is not new, and Christine thinking it is or that it would minimize Abbey's struggles just shows Christine has a very narrow view of autism and thinks her speculation about others is more valid than their lived experiences.
A lot of things Abby’s mom says were very upsetting because of my personal experience with being autistic. I’ve noticed that typically when we speak of the spectrum, people are under the impression that one sits somewhere on the spectrum and stays there. For me, when it comes to the terms “support needs”, “functionality”, and “masking”, these are all things that leave me essentially consistently moving on the spectrum. Meaning that my abilities and disabilities change.
If I am speaking of the spectrum as similarly to a pie chart of traits (which I prefer over other forms of measurement that tends to be inaccurate for me and many others)- Then the sizes of my pie slices are consistently changing. With that being said, I feel like some things Abby’s mom has said completely neglects people like me. She seems to struggle in trying to categorize autism, especially alternative presentations of autism compared to her daughter and maybe some stereotypes of autism. As I say this and if others read this, It may be important for me to mention that I have dealt with being a DID (Dissociative Identity Disorder) System, and I feel like this definitely affects how my autism presents. Though, I am Autistic regardless, and the way my Autism presents is a real experience that should be considered. I am curious if anyone else feels similarly to me so please, replies are more than welcome!
About the autism strengths thing I feel like I'm in the gray with it. Like I understand where they were coming from but my personal experience has tainted my view of strengths that I may have because of my autism. Every day is a struggle because I can't do things like everyone else my sensory needs cause me so much agony that I can't even interact like I wish I could. I don't have any outstanding skills I'm bad at remembering things and because of my autism I can't get a job. But I understand my experience is not everyone's so I don't disagree with their points but I don't understand how they separated their autism struggles from their autism strengths.
it's like strength in some areas due to autism is usually in detriment to others, so sad:(
Thank you for being a rational voice on here🌻
Abby’s mom definitely is coming from a valid place with what they have dealt with but she definitely has a lot to learn and adjust with how she thinks about things
Gray team! I appreciate all of the nuanced and moderate views that were expressed. Including yours. I think Abbey's mom is well-intentioned, however, I do see the limitations and exclusiveness her stance creates.
I identify as neurodivergent (particularly a Highly Sensitive who might be on the Spectrum), and although no one can tell by just looking at me as I was considered "gifted" growing up, I struggle quite a lot in ways that others around me have confirmed they don't regarding very basic things. It is confusing and I like the idea of labeling different aspects of the spectrum to clarify the level of support needs. But the idea that autism is "trending" for funzies seems short-sighted to the fact that many of us didn't know, didn't have aware support systems or any support, on top of the lack of cultural rep in research. There's so much to unpack!
Agree!! The fact that the Internet gives unlimited access to the diagnostic criteria (rather than only doctors knowing about it) means there are so many more people who are autistic or have a loved one who is autistic who now can identify missed diagnoses. That obviously means a lot more people are going to seek diagnoses, get diagnosed, self diagnose, etc. and that doesn't have to threaten people who already had a diagnoses or got diagnosed really young, but some people will feel threatened, as we see with Abbey's mom!
I am one of those autistic people you mentioned who - while being high functioning - has none of the support systems or accommodations you listed. I have found it so incredibly disabling trying to function on my own, and it has been so difficult and soul sucking trying to 'convince' services that I really do need the support. I honestly don't know how I survived before (not knowing I was autistic), but I can say not all of us are as lucky as Abby to have a dedicated and committed mom like her mom is. If Abby's mom really thinks expanding the representation of the people on the spectrum of Autism Spectrum Disorder then it could be even more debilitating for people like myself who are being diagnosed as adults, who are people of colour, who don't have family/friends/carers to assist them.
25:00 I feel like as someone who's in the lgbt, and knows about the discourse from that community, it sounds similar to the idea of trasmedicalism in trans communities. The idea being that you're only really transgender if you have gender dysphoria as it states from a diagnosis in the DSM5. The idea is similar to the thinking discussed here in that allows for people to get on paper and on the record for the treatment they need, but it's not a helpful for the trans people who don't need or want the medications, or gender affirming surgeries to feel happy. They identify as trans without having the gender dysphoria, which I think it for them. The people who have dysphoria or need special/ extra accommodations for austism should get it, AND those who don't need as much support for autism and gender affirming care don't lessen what being autistic or trans means. They're not mutually exclusive ideas to me
I love this so much. I tend to compare the experience of being trans and the experience of being autistic in my head (especially in relationship to the medical field) and ponder on their similarities. This is so validating, I thought I was nearly alone in thinking this. 😭
Wouldnt the person without gender dysphoria fit into the concept of non binary?
I actually got what Abby's mum saying, and I empathised 100%. I can not nor should I pretend that I have the same difficulties or challenges that Abby has faced, and that needs to be acknowledged. That doesn't mean I don't have difficulties or challenges of my own though, and I don't think that was what the mum was getting at.
I don't think she was saying that other people don't have problems but they are not the same challenges and needs - and to be fair additional problems like trauma and mental health require different treatment and support - so it can be unhelpful if these are misidentified as Autism and not appropriately supported. Nor do I think that she was silencing people or any of the additional words put in her mouth. She says that Autism should remain specific - not that people who aren't exactly like Abby do not have needs or difficulties to be addressed.
I've also seen some of the abuse that has been aimed at parents who struggle and have given up huge parts of their lives to continue to support their adult autistic children - often with very little/limited external help, and there are Autistic people who use Autism to excuse dependency or negative behaviours like hurting people or sexual offences, or for clout or to earn a living - (fortunately very few - I can count on one hand the number I've personally come across) but it still reflects on the rest of us if we pretend it doesn't happen and that everyone seeking the diagnosis or self-identifying is correctly identifying or doing so for straightforward reasons.
I find that Abby’s mom’s answer to the last question really illuminates why she is very attached to the term Asperger’s even though she knows that is not the right terminology and is harmful. At minute 51, Abby’s mom says she wishes the industry would have the language so that “those who have overcome a deficit are honored and those that are just different are honored”. To her, Autism should be reserved for those “who have overcome a deficit” and Aspergers is what “those who are just different” can be allowed to can themselves. While I understand she has these opinions because she is so passionate and cares so much for her daughter, I think (I don’t know a lot about learning disabilities, so please excuse me and correct me if my understanding is wrong), but if Abby has a learning disability or higher support needs, that is not what makes her autistic but is a facet of or is occurring in conjunction with her autism. Those with lower support needs are still autistic and operating in many of the same ways Abby does, but Abby has another layer that increases her support needs. As a 25 year old woman who was not diagnosed till a few years ago, who has two bachelors degrees, is in a PhD program, is the primary and sole caretaker for my dog and lives alone multiple states away from my family, it is incredibly minimizing to have Abby’s mom express that she wishes there were separate terminology to describe someone like me. I have other comorbidities, and my life often feels like a daily hell, so it’s incredibly hurtful that someone like Abby’s mom doesn’t recognize my struggles as autistic struggles, since my struggles and my life look different from her daughter’s. I agree and understand her caution with “opening” up the term Autism to encompass more people, since there is a fear of “it’s never going to end” and that the term will become so oversaturated that it will lose all meaning, but I believe that is assuming the worst and I try to not do that, as well as that’s what the “high support needs/low support needs” language is trying to provide nuance for, so that people like her daughter can be acknowledged and respected for the difficulties they’ve had to experience, without other-ing or minimizing everyone else.
So how has everyones valentines Day been?
Mine has been occupied with bringing fresh Bouquets to the customers at work, yes it was a walmart but i treated it like the Noblest of quests
Yes yes yes. I work at a nonprofit that donates prosthetics to kids. Im the brand director and one thing i always present on and teach our students is about that concept of creating a world where those with disabilities or neurodivergent conditions do not need to have additional accommodations. A lot of our products, facilites, and life functions are created by those in power who still skew majority able bodied white men. Even things like research subjects for most clinical trials and the people programming all of the apps we use are not diverse enough, theyre literally majority percentage able bodied white men. Even myself as an example, at mt organization im the only neurodivergent woman of color in leadership (which has been a STRUUUGGLE). Therefore the result of that is a society that naturally supports the people that set it up: able bodied white men. Every other group has to accommodate and mold themselves to function in this society. Im so glad that accomodations conversation came up and what you shared is spot on, there are lots of organizations, my own organization included, that are trying to change that, and it starts by making sure those with differences are represented in rooms where decisions are being made, policy is being passed, law is being enforced, structures are being built. Of course autism needs are not accommodated, just like people of color, women, other disabilities both physical and mental. Theyre not on teams making products, theyre not in silicone valley programming, theyre not in our governments making laws, theyre not in board rooms or in c level positions making executive decisions. Its always frustrated me personally but it gives me hope to be in an organization (that is majority able bodied as well!) that truly gets it and spends their entire working life trying to make things better.
Thank you for another great nuanced discussion! I cracked up so hard when you were saying you were a stoner because of the way you leaned close to the camera too 🤣🤣🤣!
Why are they still using aspergers this is very old termimology
45:16 i like how Irene pointed out here that Christine is clearly aware of it too but is insistent on continuing to use it. To me that just makes it extra effed up to keep using it, bc it's acknowledging that it's outdated and hurtful but choosing to use it anyway instead of learning the correct terminology.
And it seems that Christine refuses to acknowledge people as autistic or allow people to use the autism label who have less or different support needs than Abbey, so she uses asp. instead even KNOWING its harm.
Hi Irene, I have a similar viewpoint about Abbey’s mother. When I first watched this Jubilee, that was also the part where I got offended (when she said the spectrum is getting too big & people who happen to married with kids and have a successful career should somehow not be counted as Autistic). Before that, I liked her (though I did find it a bit childish when she prompted Abbey to repeat the line about her body not doing what her brain wanted, when Abbey had already expressed that on her own earlier in the episode, but other than that nothing Theresa said bothered me). When I read the Jubilee comments to see if anyone else felt the same as me, I felt vindicated to see that many did, but it also seemed that many were tearing her apart. She absolutely loves her daughter: I don’t think that can be doubted. I think the reason for her narrow Autism definition is that she is afraid her daughter will not get the recognition and accommodations that she needs if too many level 1 Autistic people are somehow “taking it away” from people who need it more (which I don’t think is going to happen), but I do think she is coming from a place of concern and love for her daughter, however much I was upset by what she said.
I meant Christine; no idea why my brain thought her name was Theresa.
i love how you are saying that her viewpoint needs to have a chance to expand. i feel like you are being so clear yet kind and nonjudgmental in the way you are speaking, it is really nice to watch ❤
The way autism is depicted in the media really just feels like neurotypical people trying to come to terms with the existence of autistic people rather than being empathetic. The trait of autism really does tend to consume the character completely, which is something I can definitely picture a neurotypical person writing.
Abed from Community is pretty good representation I believe
My gosh, thank you. Thank you for representing the center, the middle, the grey. Autism related or not. I feel like I am the only person trying to look at all sides and wanting to see things as they actually are. Even these folks that are talking in this discussion circle are coming from a place of pretty extreme privilege. How many of us have been completely alone? I was diagnosed in my 50s. I never had help in school. No one believed me when I said my well educated parents weren't helping me, or that they were actually continually very cruel. They actually did things that made my life quite a bit more difficult. Teachers didn't believe me. I didn't have friends. I have had to figure life out on my own, masking, struggling, barely surviving. I work full time, am married, am independent.... but it is a huge ongoing struggle in every area of my life except my marriage. Because I have had to mask in order to be employed. They don't believe I am autistic. I think it's obvious because of the continual breakdowns in communication. They are completely unwilling to make accommodations of any kind. I am told to submit paperwork to HR. HR says well if you can't do your job (the way it is now), maybe you shouldn't be working here. I need adjustments. Adjustments that cost them nothing. NOTHING. And the organization's core values are advertised as providing access and inclusion to all people. But their practices say otherwise. My experience can't possibly be unique. But there is not help or support of any kind anywhere. Autistic traits are seen under the umbrella of "lack of professionalism". They think we understand where we are going wrong.
Putting all my thoughts in one comment (it's long, sorry):
I think that people's tendency to attack others comes less from where they stand on the political spectrum and more from other factors. First of all, TikTok (and all social media sites really) just isn't suited as a platform to having nuanced discussions. It's hard to show up with adequate grace and open-mindedness to a fixed video that shows up on your feed with little to no context behind it. I think most people would be genuinely willing to dialogue if you ask them amiably and in person, but it seems like people are so used to being reactionary online that they carry it into personal interactions as well. (Another thing is that some people are the type to say they want to have a discussion but then aren't willing to listen to others :P it's annoying)
I think I get what the mom's saying about autism being "trendy." I've heard a fair share about how uneducated people (especially kids) on TikTok aestheticize and appropriate mental conditions. (I think it was a few years ago where a bunch of kids on TikTok started acting like they had Tourette's to get attention? Stuff like that.) I can empathize with her frustration expressed at 22:17; sometimes neurotypical people over-pathologize behaviors shared between NTs and NDs based on a very shallow understanding of neurodivergence, and I also find that annoying and unproductive. **However,** a lot of people *do* need that medical categorization (even if you're not diagnosed) in order to get professional help or at least begin to make sense of your experiences. Part of the reason so many people nowadays are autistic is because diagnostic and community resources are more common and accessible than they were before, combined with the fact that our scientific understanding of autism has evolved with more time and research. It seems like the mom is struggling to accept that an autistic person's functioning deficits can be less visible than what she's experienced with her daughter (e.g. 21:59--it's very reasonable imo that you can be in your 30s with a job and family and still need help!). So yeah idk but she should probably figure that out on her own.
Last thing is that I find it hard to see autism as a strength. My autism is inextricable from my personhood and I view it neutrally overall, but I feel weird thinking of my positive autistic traits (primarily being good at school) as gains or superpowers because I know that a lot of fellow autistics really struggle in school. The way I see it (and I don't know if I'm explaining this right so sorry), the fact that I function pretty well without accommodations in an allistic-made and -centering institution is just happenstance and doesn't reflect in any specific way on me.
Your point about "pure" politically correct people can be just as damaging to societal progress when they react aggressively was wonderfully said. Thankyou for daring to be so honest. You are very insightful and eloquent in your delivery.
What I learned from this after 20 minutes us that it is good I have not installed tik tok.
People throwing the word autism around at the drop of a hat
I agree support needs also depends on circumstances. Support needs can change throughout life.
That last point you made about the fact that Abby's mom might be feeling the need to protect the spectrum from diversifying in order to protect or insure accommodations for Abby; and yet even in the decades that have transpired in which when we think of an autistic person we think often of somebody with high support needs and Abby's level of social awareness and self-awareness, we haven't been good at providing accommodations that allow for basic, limited participation, never mind inclusion (so she is fighting the wrong enemy) is a good one.
this is an argument i see thrown around all the time that "fakers" take away support from those that need it. and i'm like...what support? literally jobs are not accomidating. colleges are not either. professors will literally laugh at you if you try to explain your situation to them. like there's nothing to be taken away because we literally don't get anything. and schools like elementary schools that do accomodate may only provide a pair of cheap headphones. like congrats, we get a cheap pair of headphones and maybe get sent to a separate room for tests and such. but there's a huge lack of any support and i think a lot of people don't quite understand that. they say people just want a diagnosis to feel special and get special treatment but...there is no special treatment.
The reason Abby's mom continues to use Asperger's despite knowing it's negative origins is the same reason she doesn't think the spectrum should include certain "types" of Autistic people. There is a level of struggle that she associates with Autism and people who were diagnosed with Asperger's are too intelligent/low support needs enough to not fall into her internal understanding of what an Autistic person really is. She doesn't have a term to illustrate that line in her brain so she uses the only one that people will understand. Asperger's.
Unfortunately this is true. Hopefully she can expand her concept of what autism is as time goes on
On accommodations, every IEP/IFSP I fill out for my kid I say "all families would benefit from this!" Seriously, I cry every time I fill out this paperwork, thinking of my mom and how much this would have helped her.
25:17 I wrote a whole rant, but had to delete it because you described me and my best friend perfectly. We have trauma, we don't have parents or caretakers, we struggle to make friendships meaningful enough where they would be willing to give us a place to stay if we were at rock bottom, and we struggle to meet our basic needs fully independently. We have both struggled to maintain stable employment and housing. We are trapped in extreme poverty, but are considered "not disabled enough" to recieve medical care. I would argue that we are more disabled than someone with access to 24/7 care. Many people like us die fairly young. I'm sick of being told its "too easy" to call yourself autistic nowadays when I've literally struggled so much to keep myself alive that I've suffered from mini strokes due to the strain being put on my body. My friend and I have gone missing during meltdowns because we didn't have caretakers to stop us from going off alone while in a state of medical distress. How is the fact that we slipped through the cracks proof that we are not disabled? Because we are still alive?
I guess I really feel what you said about the 'not everyone was able to have supportive parents, or much help...' and I wonder... The way to parent a child on the spectrum has no definite "right" or "wrong" way, right? But also,... perhaps there should be some kind of happy medium between... being understanding and yielding for your child with disabilities and really pushing your child to become the highest of their potential they can be...
I might be totally wrong, but as someone who was diagnosed with adhd from a very young age (and suspect also having autism as an adult) and having had parents who weren't mostly so supportive during my whole upbringing, I guess I was just raised to feel this way to an extent... I almost feel like... could it be possible that Abby's mom could have coddled her too much because she was diagnosed early on? It seems like parents can become a bit overbearing once they find their child has been diagnosed with a disability, and could we ever really know if that didn't help with milestone delays? It's curious to say the least...
Then there's my parents, lol, who were so adamantly in denial almost my whole childhood. "She's normal! There's nothing wrong with her. She just needs more discipline, she just needs to stop being lazy.." In _some_ ways, I can really see the idea of pushing a person with disabilities to still strive to become the most they can be, while also respecting the line where can't really is can't. It took until high school before my parents were alerted again by concerned school faculty about my performance in school, before they allowed me to start using proper aids. For most of my upbringing, I might as well have not been a person with adhd, but just a weird kid who was an extremely average, to low average student, shy, barely any friends, depression, anxiety, self loathing... Yeah.. ignoring made everything worse...
And here I am now.. I have graduated college with a bachelor's degree in game design, but as soon as the structure of school left me, I fell apart, became pretty much a total recluse, and continuously failed to land a job in the specialized study I graduated in... Well, I haven't given up, of course, but the more jobs I get and lose, the more I realize just how difficult it is for me to fit into the job market, I really suck at interviews... I'm too slow in mental processing and in motor skills... I guess.. Maybe that's also just the workforce making "efficiency" and "productivity" borderline difficult for the average person... but then again,, apparently other people are doing much better than me.... Man, I just want to live... I want to stop feeling like a burden on my family... I want to be independent and even be someone highly dependable... It's just a constant uphill battle. *sigh*
Wish me luck, guys. I'm wishing it all for you, too.
TL;DR - Though a narrow-minded opinion that is harmful, this mother's fears come from a place of genuine love for her daughter and the trauma of having to fight so hard to validate her daughter's experience with autism. I believe that having this understanding and discussing respectfully could easily open the mother's mind to changing this opinion.
I am a level 1 only recently diagnosed as an adult. My brother has more severe symptoms and cannot take care of himself, and I feel like the main reason my autism went unrecognized for so long was because my behavior/struggles were always being compared to his. My mom had to go through so much in order to advocate for my brother and get him the help he needs, very much how it seems this mother needed to for Abbey.
Seeing autism through my brother's lens was literally her life, her view of what it means to be on the spectrum, and I've seen her struggle of having to fight for my brother and validate his experience. I can see how this woman's opinions come from a place of fear. It may be hard for her to see the spectrum broaden because Abbey's autism is all she truly knows, and I can understand that she may be afraid that this might lead to Abbey's fight for validation being even harder than it already has been.
Personally, I don't think acknowledging the struggles throughout the whole spectrum will suddenly invalidate any individual hardships. In fact, this narrow view/opinion is doing the very thing that she fears happening to Abbey. I do think that because this outlook comes from a genuine place of love and protection of her daughter, I think believe that her opinion can change. I agree with Irene that attacking a person and taking away Understanding makes this needed change no longer available (not that I'm accusing anyone here of that; I'm referencing "haters" brought up in the video).
I was literally thinking exactly how you worded the part about Abby’s mom trying to define autism spectrum as looking a certain way and I also feel like in any type of marginalized group there are always people who project their personal experiences onto others to devalue their struggle, like a poor white person speaking about a middle class black person, saying that racism isn’t real because they grew up poor and has it “harder” than the black person in this so-called scenario. I am a high-masking and currently self-diagnosed autistic who is in therapy for PTSD, GAD, and ADHD, currently hoping to get a diagnosis because I feel like it would be validating to my personal experience. I have experienced extreme abuse and traumas from being autistic, including almost being killed by cops and being incarcerated multiple times. I’ve built trauma bonds with abusive partners etc. and my life has been extremely marginalized even though someone like Abby’s mom wouldn’t think I have a disability, I could argue greatly that I have experienced much marginalization, just in different ways. What she is missing is intersectionality from her view of disability. And you described essentially that in your perfectly worded response. Okay I’m done rambling now, THANKS for the channel and your always awesome videos! ❤
I my teens and early 20s drinking alcohol as I could unmask when drunk. People would assume it was alcohol.
I was exactly the same in high school. Drinking and drugging so I could pretend I was like everyone else. That led me down a pretty destructive path.
I wish we lived in a world where everyone is accommodated so they can succeed and be the best version of themselves. I'm austistic with low support needs and just got diagnosed this past summer at 21. I have been fighting my way through school for years (I first remember crying about schoolwork in 5th grade) and needed extended time at least as early as 6th grade. Accommodations have made such a difference in my life. I'm so ready to graduate and work in a place that I enjoy with accommodations to help me succeed
25:30 Yes!!!! This was the moment in the video that started to make me physically uncomfortable in relation to Abbey’s mom’s comments.
It is so hard to be taken seriously when people see autism as Abbey and not people like me, a high-masking black woman with a family that doesn't trust most mental health diagnoses but trust chronic illness diagnosis or physical disabilities.
Gurl!! Preach! So many mic drop moments in this vid!! You're on fire!
Lovely nuanced video. Thank you for sharing. I love your channel!
I love your balanced perspective on everything. It's so refreshing and necessary for our world.
I appreciate your nuanced evaluation/criticism of Abbey's mom. I find a lot of people tend to fall into either one lane or the opposite while forgetting that several things can be true at the same time without being mutually exclusive. It's especially a problem online, so I really appreciate you sobering and maturing the conversation.
I also view the part where Christine tells Abby to go back as her attempt at guiding her because Abby gets confused, while I also agree with commentators on the video that Christine should let Abby speak for herself more. Some also took offense to Christine being against Abby dating NTs and talking about her innocence, and people interpreted that as Christine wanting to capture Abby in a little girl role for life, and I don't think that's the case at all. I think Christine does recognize Abby as having cognitive impairments, and so I think you're very right about there being an obvious power imbalance between Abby and an NT, which wouldn't at all be safe for her.
As much as I don't agree with Christine on her points about the spectrum being too wide, I also do recognize that people have an easy tendency to go into lynching mode online for several various reasons, like extrapolating the worst through just limited snips of information despite good intent, or an unconscious need to create unity (us vs them), or too many people being simply too addicted to outrage (most SoMe is just rage farming these days, it generates big buck), and so forth, but hypotheses aside, I like you calling out both sides while also emphasizing the good in both. Team Grey indeed!
13:50 this makes me think about my high school classes, especially often in the English classes, but other ones too,, they'd give us breaks where it was like 5 minutes to go to the bathroom, walk in the hallways, get a drink, read, talk, whatever,, right in the middle of the class period,, or sometimes they'd finish the teaching portion and we'd have a minute or a few where they'd have us stand up, or do some jumping jacks, stretch,, and the desks even had a rubber band sort of thing to put your feet on and bounce them as a stim/fidget,, and standing desks at the back of the rooms for most classes,,,,, I wasn't diagnosed adhd or autism at the time and hadn't even thought about it,, but I think those sort of things were really great for them to have in place for everyone, especially in a highschool setting where a lot of other places seem to have stopped caring about that kind of stuff from what I've heard,, I think it's really lucky that we have it here,, and it also makes me curious if things like that may also influence the education levels here, as my province is rated as having one of the best educations in the world. Like, there are definitely things that could be improved, like, English classes were one of my least favourite because I could lowkey not actually tell what we were supposed to be doing most of the time(I swear, I'd read the outlines/assignments and it all felt like fluff,, I'd ask others what we were supposed to be doing, get some shrugs,,, go ask the teacher and she'd be like "why don't you ask a friend" or tell me to try to think more about it or smth and I'd be like, I've done that, I don't get it, it's not working,,,, I feel like at least the way the English teachers often interacted by trying to keep things really open ended just left me not knowing what was supposed to be going on, maybe a black and white thinking type of thing where it was too vague of a shade of grey? Or like, I know the answer is supposed to be a colour, but they've only given me the value in the assignment to tell me how dark or light the shade is and then tell me to just "think about it more" or "ask a friend" and that will magically tell me if they're looking for blue or orange or green,,,,,,, but yeah,, at least the surroundings/atmosphere of the classroom was good,, and I guess I still got pretty good marks in those classes,, even if they were lower than all my other subjects except grade 9 phys ed,,,,, didnt have that problem with any other classes tho,, so maybe its just a trend with the english teachers or our english curriculum,,, but yeah,,, still probably pretty lucky all things considered)
I really admire and respect the very measured way you shared your thoughts! These are complex topics to discuss, but you've done so with grace.
4:23 took me about 25 years to say that to my family members when they start to offload their list of things that I can't change about myself or things that i could literally not care less about changing. And if they still continue, to literally just get up and go away, there's no use in arguing about a boundary
I absolutely loved your analogy about the autistic community being the early warning sign of the poor health of the greater community.
I just found you at 3am, im on the spectrum and so is my son, im soooo STOKED about you and tour channel!!! SUBSCRIBED!!!
I love your takes Irene, its refreshing to hear opinions and comments that also respect and try to understand where the other person is coming from even if you disagree. Its something i always wished i saw more of.
Also, quick question. Can someone please ecplain what gray team means? I have some guesses but i've never heard it before and looking it up didnt give any clear answers.
Grey team is against black and white thinking. It considers the grey areas aka nuance. I was also confused😅
I commend you for working so hard to cut Abbey's mom a wide berth. However, as the late diagnosed parent of a late diagnosed child, I found myself kind of irritated by some of the things she said. First, she asserted that she's aware that she's NOT supposed to say "Asperger's," but then she continues to repeatedly throw it around anyway. This is minor, but it bugged me quite a bit. What I really found problematic was her gatekeeping, and her vigorous defense of stereotypes. I appreciate that she has skin in the game, but who the hell is she to appoint herself the arbiter of who is and isn't on the spectrum? I've heard, more than once, that if you've met ONE person on the spectrum, you've met ONE person on the spectrum, and Abbey's mom needs to recognize this. I applaud how strongly she advocates for her own child, but she's not doing the rest of us any favors by painting the big picture with her wide, seemingly monochromatic brush. It's called a spectrum for a reason, and she really does not need to fortify her own position by pigeonholing the rest of us, and in the process diminishing our positions.
Yeah her comments really rub me the wrong way. I wasn’t diagnosed until the age of 26, and in just over a year I have gone from working full time m, which I could never fully menage, and going to uni full time because I felt like I had to be like everyone else. I wasn’t coping for a long time and eventually judging no support and doing more than I’m capable of has been my downfall. I am now on disability and can barely cope with studying or any sort of day to day functioning. I have seizures and a neurological disorder now because the stress on my nervous system has led to some serious damage. My mum tried so hard to get me diagnosed as a kid because she knew I was autistic but because I have always been well spoken and academically gifted she was always knocked back. The consequences have been devastating to my life and wellbeing. I might be well spoken but I often go non verbal, have tics and I’m unable to speak properly. I’ve always had trouble in social situations but I learnt to mask because I felt like I didn’t belong. I have no doubt I have autism, there are certain traits I have that have no other explanation. I have this questioning due to stereotyping constantly, being told I’m high functioning and can’t be autistic because I’ve been university etc, but that’s irrelevant, an intellectual disability isn’t the same as autism. I’ve always had deficits and my inability to function has always been negatively impacted but the more I tried to mould myself to fit societal expectations, the more it’s clear I’m autistic. I can’t function on my own and I need help, because I missed out on that growing up.
I recently started watching your channel. Thank you for braving the public and speaking out for our community. I have been enjoying your content. I especially love your video on mutism.
Love how you are speaking your mind freely
Just a thing about keeping the ad in at around 50 :
It was pretty hilarious that it got interrupted by an ad when I was watching it.
The thing about the "autistic trend" is that people who have suspected autism and previously self diagnosed themselves without having access to professional diagnosis, are now seeking professional diagnosis in later life and being validated in high numbers. And with that, more people out there are finding people that they relate to who have been validated by professional diagnosis, and thus suspecting their struggles too could be associated autism. People out there are truly struggling, no matter how they present. Abbey's mom doesn't have any say or control over what autism is. This is up to the doctors doing the diagnosis. It's not just a trend. Who would want to be autistic with all the struggles that come with it?
I love these videos and your commentary on it! GRAY TEAM HEHE
I'm going to start this conversation by saying hi and thank you for what you do on a daily basis I know and I see it is hard I'm coming from the disabled community and being a individual with autism and a man of color. The comment that you made about people of color and autism is very true let's start with comment number one the late diagnosis of people of color with autism that comes with the lack of Education an awareness this can be fixed with our government and Society combined under constitutional laws with disability rights as a whole. This will fix the interior problem with the Healthcare System and the education system no matter what color you are especially for people of color. I did not legally get diagnosed with autism until 2018 as a little kid I was very different and I was aware of that on a daily basis but never knew what was wrong with me family told me to apply myself and treated me normal not knowing as a child that would develop the term masking. As time went on things got worse my mom starts moving me from school to school until I was placed in special education in 1994 and all hell broke loose can you imagine being in the classroom with normal kids and you hear a knock on the door and you see is the counselor and the Teacher Calls your name for you to go with the counselor not knowing that I was going to be diagnosed with learning disabilities in place to Resource class AKA special education and was to never return to normal setting. Being in special education was hell, we hear the word IEP in this day and time I never had one but I was in special education🤔 we hear the word accommodation well I graduated in 1998 with no transitioning into the real world and with the lack of accommodations and without the awareness of knowing that I had autism but we just looked at as me having learning disabilities I went out into the real world masking and blending in not about accommodations in education Healthcare and job placement for people with disabilities. So you are right in the whole world needs to know this, as a man of color with autism and living in a society with the lack of knowledge an eager to change is the discrimination to me this is my story and I guess autism do really speaks
Thank you for saying the quiet part out LOUD!
The analogy of purity culture was so good, you perfectly translated my frustration about that into words
Exactly!! Im mix native and got not diagnosed until i was 20 and misdiagnosed before getting my diagnosis for autism.
It's interesting that the sensory room came up. .my public library has recently made a sensory room but I haven't tried it yet.
I'm grey and it's so hard to find other people like this!!!!
Also, I wish you were active on TikTok. The community over there needs to hear a lot of this perspective.
15:37 I agree with him so much here! I work on DEI committees regularly and have to often convince people that we need to focus on accessibility too and not just from an accommodations standpoint but from a justice standpoint.
I wouldn't need all these “expensive” accommodations if the organization was accessible to begin with.
Just like how a ramp can be used for both wheelchairs and someone who’s just tired that day and can't do stairs.
SOPs can help my AuDHD brain follow procedures without asking 10 zillion questions, but they can also help new people get onboarded or someone who hasn't done a specific process in a while get back on track.
I totally resonate with what you said about the far left and far right sharing those common ideas of puritanism and the mentality of descending on people and bullying them relentlessly if they put one foot out of line, and as a leftist it’s very sad to see because we should not be defining ourselves by the very traits that have hurt us.
yep! fellow leftist here and i agree. unfortunately i think most of the people that act like this dont really believe in the values and are just acting this way because they think it's the right way to be and dont understand any of the reasoning behind it. and also kids. but there are probably a few people out there who are just way too deep
Just keep in mind that "far left" and "far right" in America are both actually quite close on the political spectrum. Add in European politics to the spectrum and both American parties would be classified as right wing :)
@@Daniel-te3os right, well most people using 'far left' aren't speaking on either of the two parties who share power, because everyone knows there are two right-wing parties, if they have any business using the term left at all... there is a campaign by conservatives to get civilians to believe that the Democratic party is left-wing, and the creator of this video alluded to buying into this confabulation to an extent, but other than that, I thought it was a strong video and affirmative of a spectrum of autistic experience.
@@Daniel-te3os very true, but I was speaking more about online communities and today's political leanings. As a European, I would describe many online communities as leftist - those who do not self-identify as liberals but often vote Liberal because there are few other options. So to rephrase, I am referring to angry leftists who enforce woke culture and cancel culture to a detrimental degree, a fairly new phenomenon, and bigoted right-wing groups who have historically always shamed, policed and cast out others for transgressing the norm.
@@dabordietrying as someone who has experienced the brain-rotting twitter cancel culture, so much of it is just mob mentality, same as any other bigoted movement, and they too have convinced themselves that they are doing the right thing and even feel proud for beating others down because they're simply getting rid of the "bad" ones.
I'm glad you called out Christine for gatekeeping. I felt insulted by her saying that when her daughter's program helped me find out I was autistic.
A couple of years ago I was mentioning to my therapist that I think I might be autistic, and would be doing research to feel it out more. She stressed to me not to take any of the “advice” given on TikTok because of this problem. She’s likely had many people come to her with self diagnosing individuals from having consumed TikToks specifically.
I reassured here that I didn’t (still don’t) have TikTok on my devices.
After a few months of assessments, research, and reflections I was diagnosed at 25. It’s been a dang journey now 2 years later, and I’m super grateful for the insight I have now because of it.
Something that is sticking with me from this is the idea because of someone accomplishing something that means they have less need or validity for a diagnosis. After reflecting on this I realized Abbeys mom isn’t considering the mental health of those people looking into a diagnosis. It’s not likely in my opinion that it’s going to be grown adults with lives outside of social media looking for a trendy diagnosis, but that it’s more often younger adults and kids/teenagers who feel left out in other ways, or that they don’t relate in someway. Even so there isn’t harm in the self exploration aspect of learning about and exploring being assessed for the cause of struggles ones having..it’s really way more complicated than just achievements or struggles.
The thought I had being derailing a bit there was, just because someone is able to accomplish things doesn’t mean they are successful inside. Especially with being autistic myself and only just diagnosed 2 years ago at 25. There were things I made sure to accomplish because it was expressed to me that there wasn’t another option, or that failing it meant I would be as bad as my delinquent family members before me. I didn’t take pride in those things or enjoy the journey half the time for my own skill building and accomplishments, but because of a place of survival and fear of judgement from others.
The “because I said so” narrative from care givers and neurotypical in authority positions coming from not wanting to explain the why and purpose behind a goal to reach are actively disabling to an autistic person like myself.
This isn't a personal attack because I'm not too good at wrangling all my thoughts up, but I'm really trying to reconcile the comparison between obnoxious progressive folks and Cristofascists because they are not the same; EVEN THOUGH I AGREE with your premise and you've made several follow-up comments that explain that with more nuance
I think what makes them similar are not their positioning on the political spectrum, but their privileges & proxy to whiteness. The sense of urgency to not backslide into conservatism while benefitting so much from the hard fought black rights movement is something i think we need from an "sjw" , but like you said, there also needs to be boundaries.
I feel like the difference between a person who wants to bring about positive change and an SJW is boundaries, because on the internet when we don't set boundaries all that does is benefit the algorithm and rewards negative behavior. People can speak their peace and/or block and walk away, because no one can ever really know if you're debating a troll or just a genuinely confused person, and that's especially hard when all one does is look for trolls 💀 there's like a billion of us on this planet , a couple million online, & a couple million of those are bots or rage-farmers.
Like I hate the idea of having to put "black, brwn, mixed, nd, mentall illness lgbtq" because some people don't even read that and start engaging w me like im a debate bro.
I very much agree !! Many people tend to conflate the two extreme ends of the political spectrum because they can both be obnoxious in their own right, but given a group of people that are particularly annoying about "political correctness" and policing people about using specific language, expression, etc versus a group of people that advocate and perpetuate ideas and beliefs that actively harm people around them, there's one thats objectively worse
In my experience, the people who don't like debate bros are just the type of people who don't like having their beliefs critically engaged with.
Yes that 'both sides' statement needed to be critiqued, even if some of the criticism it represents is based, I find that it's irresponsible to equate the far left with the right wing who wants us dead or without autonomy, and this creator could have put more thought into language and employed language with more nuance, less easily construed as a lack of understanding regarding the human rights, and lives, that are at stake if we give the right credence or any degree of power.
Based off of your descriptors I don’t think we’re thinking of the same types of people when I refer to “far left”. Someone who wants to bring about positive change is fighting for good and necessary causes. People I’m referring to are only interested in fighting and bullying others they deem immoral
Girl, I'm part of the gray trying to talk about all the nuances in neurodivergenttiktok lol its soooo frustrating and exhausting but at the same time I love it and can see small changes happening because of bringing these nuances to light.
Also, I was waiting until you got to the point where Abby's mom talks about autism "trending" lol That's where I was like, "okay, mom, I think we need to rethink some things here."
Why is it confusing for her that there is a spectrum?????????? Anything is a spectrum. Cancer is a spectrum. Doesn't make someone with skin cancer less cancerous than someone with blood cancer.
I am a later diagnosed autistic person and my significant other is a earlier diagnosed autistic person and I do have to teach them about my particular autism so it does have a different set of challenges.
i dont think what abbey's mom said about the spectrum was inherently wrong, i think there are a bunch of people coming out as autistic lately and thats great that they're using widely available information to help figure out who they are. but i also think a lot of people are seeing autism as a new "quirky" trait to associate themselves with to automatically feel more unique, and more trendy. And its like the whole DID thing all over again in 2020, but worse. Its hard because you dont want to invalidate anyone's experiences and you dont know whats going on in their brain, but at the same time autism isnt just "being a little quirky" and "being introverted sometimes"
I watched the original video on my own previously, but seeing your analysis was truly helpful (& validating). Loved your insights around 24:30 & 30:24 & 34:50. And I'm definitely team gray! ;-)
37:17
As someone who is undiagnosed, but has been suspecting authism and have made many tests which seem to sead me to the conclusion that i probably have autism, who has had a relationship recently with a person who is also suspected to have autism, i will say that its more difficult than my relationships with neurotypical people.
Ofcourse, it takes a cirtain type of neurotypical people who can accept and even enjoy some of the excentricities that i have.
But why i think that it all depends on the individual v individual contact, and not on whether someone is in the comunity is because of the facts that
1. We have to assume that every authistic person understands what they are going through
2. Have to assume that every authistic, or most authistic people have the same experiences
3. We have to assume that they can use their understanding actionably in order to be a good enough partner to another authistic person who will also have to be the same way
4. That authistic people generally have the same experiences and opinions
And thease few reasons would be inverted for neurotypical people, whare by we have to assume that because they are NT that they necesserally wont understand us.
(Again, im speaking as a part of the autistic comunity because i feel very very cirtain that i am autistic, but to be clear, i have went off of self diagnosis besed on any information i can find by licenced psychologists, and any taking official tests i can find online.
Whare i live, sadly, we have a very primitive healthcare system, especially in terms of psychology, and so even if i were diagnosed here, i wouldnt trust the results because( i live in Macedonia btw)
There are some doctors in the private sectors who could probably diagnose me, but its too expencive, and frankly, for me personally, i dont really think about myself in tearms of an overarching labels, excepts for shorthand, since i usually think abiut it in tearms of individual caracteristics that i have noticed in myself over the years.)
So anyway, to my point.
I think that assuming what a person is like based on the overarching category which they are a part of, is just a shorthand way to understand them in general, but it never garantees much about what the person is actually like, so i think that we always would be wise to be open to different kinds of people for a potencial relationship ( in accordance to personal taste ofcourse ) and to in particular not close ourselves off to groups of people, as, again, groups arent individuals .
And we have to also remember that someone who might be a perfect match, still much have a lot of trauma for example, and so they will not necesserally be able to fulfill a lot of things that they even want to do or be for you.
Idk, i think relationdhips are built, and learned over time
And if a person has the proper atitude and the knowledge, and if the partner does likewise, i think they can learn to be better for eachother.
(Ill go into those caracteristics if someone asks me to do so)
Have a good day
38:31 oh thay reminds me
Both authistio people and neuro typical people can learn some skills fron eachother, since we develope differently, we have different skillsets, so beeing in intimate contact with another person will bring a lot of insight to both kinds of people.
Have a nice day
( oh there is this song by perfect circle called blue. Its spinning in my head now, its so good, give it a go if you like)
I like the point about 2 extremes shown of autism on TV. When black families were first on TV…we also only saw extremes like Fred Sanford on Sanford &!Son (poor.uneducated ) and Dr Huxtable on The Cosby Show (rich, educated) Being black in America was often the theme. Now it’s like that with Autism. We see extremes …and autism is often the theme of the whole show. (Extraordinary Attorney Woo) Interestingly, when gay men arrived on TV, we were shown both extremes in one show, Will & Grace. We had flaming gay Jack (mostly unemployed) and then Will who passed as straight (a well employed lawyer).
I think that people who hold onto Asperger’s are having a hard time adjusting to change and feeling comfortable with it. Just a possibility that I thought of.
Thank you Irene for saying that about the people of color. It is very true, as a late diagnosed autistic and person of color what you said needed to be brought up because it is a real thing. Peace and blessings to you Love 🙏🏼👍🏼💙
Thank you for expressing realistic compassion towards the mom but also not holding back about how what she's saying is still harmful. The true root of the issue being what you said - the support and resources aren't there.
The pause was sooooo effective! 🫢 like I felt like I was in trouble even though I didn't do anything. 😂 Loved the video!
Wow! Thank you for this video. I’m American Indian and just found out last year. 58 yrs young…
It's odd that those of us with Autism are more prone to black and white thinking by nature, however we are the most inclined to actually consider nuance. Of course I could be wrong and often am. You're fun. I've been researching the causes of homelessness and it looks like zoning laws are creating higher costs for housing and that can be fixed but it has to come from local government(s). I love to see David and Abby together. They're very good together. I have never fully disagreed with Abby's mom.
I actually saw another video of Abby's mom, where she doubles down on the criticism and makes a distinction between "neurodifferent" and "neurodivergent", basically identifying those who might have gotten an "Asperger" disgnosis back then as "just neurodifferent" and not autistic. She seems to think that "Asperger" and "Autism" are different things, when they are actually not, as "Asperger" was always classified as a kind of autism.
This actually feels so weird writing it down, hard to form those words. It feels totally devalidating. Yes, I might have gotten an "Asperger Autism" diagnosis 15 years ago, but surprise surprise - they found out that the differences in diagnosis are so minimal, and the labelling often wrong, so that they discarded the extra name and based autism diagnosis on support level needs, which makes a lot of sense to me.
And yes, there are a lot more people getting diagnosed, because autism has been severey underdiagnosed. Just like with lefthandedness being allowed in school led to a lot more people writing lefthanded, finally having the right criteria for autism leads to more diagnoses. And just like it levelled out with the lefthandedness, it will at some point level out with autism.