I remember around 23 years ago right after I got my first AK, I bought a 20 round box of Winchester 7.62 x39 and what I discovered when I opened the box was insane. Several of the bullets were sunk deep into the necks of the shells and one bullet had sunk all the way into the bottom of the shell and gunpowder was loose in the Box since it has spilled out, and when I took it back to Walmart they exchanged it for another box, and I opened that box right there in the store and there were once again at least a couple more rounds that had the same problem. There was a huge tolerance issue between the bullet and the neck of the casings as they were very loose. I've honestly not had any problems with any Winchester ammo since that happened that I can recall but I will never forget those couple boxes of 7.62 x 39.
It’s been going on for years. Lots of threads on Reddit and other forums. Winchester is in charge of lake city and overseeing all our military ammo for the next few which is kinda scary.
Olin is who owns Winchester ammo, they have manufacturing plants in the US and in France and a few other places in Europe. The French mfg plants adhear to the manufacturing process tighter cause they have to be imported where as the US mfg can be loose on their processes due to not having to be imported and having less "regulation" on its products due to importation laws. Its a bull crap reason for poor mfg but its what I see as a result of profit over product value.
I was gonna say this may be a deeper issue we’re dealing with here, u mean to tell me there fine with selling Americans bad ammo while our allies have better it’s bullshit, this is the only dude on the internet even calling out Winchester rn
If anyone hasn't noticed, things are falling apart and people are struggling everywhere. That impacts workers who are not making enough to live. Kind of hard to care about the product when the company doesn't care about you. This is a corporate culture and greed issue.
I've noticed lately USA made ammo is not as good as it used to be. I'm finding myself buying import ammo so much that I have forgotten how bad USA ammo can be sometimes. Only one that has stayed on my good to go list is Federal.
I have not had good luck with Winchester ammo especially the white box....Nowadays I just steer clear of em.....Good find and share on where it is made.....Good stuff....
Olin corporation has owned Winchester for longer than you and I have been alive, so that's not anything new. A slight hiccup on the loading line isn't unusual. The quality control people did not catch the goof in crimping. Also ammo contracts being made FOR Winchester isn't new either. Cheddite (look them up) is likely who loaded that contract ammo for Winchester.
When loading plastic shot shells, having little bumps or bulges in the shot area is not unusual in different brands. Also faint head stamping is very likely a worn die or machine pressure setting. It may look crappy but it does not affect the reliability or function. Given the ammo shortages we have seen over the last 4 years, I'm not surprised about minor cosmetic issues that may have been kicked to rejects or grade 2 just a few years ago. I have seen cosmetic grade 2 ammo being sold as such within the last few years because of the unprecedented demand stripping the ability of the industry to keep up.
Vista Outdoors has a variety of brands that will serve you well. I also like Fiochi and Remington for my handguns. Only have Federal for my shotgun so far.
Even though I cannot find 410, if Winchester 410 shells are available, I do not buy them. My gunsmith, a man I fully respect, told me to stay away from Winchester. Too many good options out there. Thank God we still , as Americans, have a choice.
Stay away from an imported brand of shotgun shells- ‘Rio’. (Name I’m not familiar with) Dudes shot it in a Judge and had to drive the empty cases out of the cylinder is how tight they expanded to.
The difference between packaging is just local sourcing, I’m sure the unit in France isn’t buying their packaging supplies from the same vendor that the US building is. My best guess on the quality issue from my experience is that in the EU they have more strict regulations on producing certain types of products. I would guess they are using modern equipment with inline quality systems in place versus stateside they are using 50 year old machines relying on the operators (inexperienced) to catch inline issues and limited QA samples between operations. I worked for a company that made concrete adhesives and our domestic production process was decades behind our European plant making the same exact product. With that being said there is no excuse for those getting out the door, that’s a training issue caused by poor management.
Why are the ammo companies trying so hard to cheapen the way their products so much that the end result is doing nothing but insulting their customers!!! Also they are charging more money for a insulting product!!!! IDIOCY!!!
I have no asnwers, only theories. One train of thought is that anti gunners have infiltrated ammo makers with the intent of putting out bad product and hoping people will just give up and stop shooting. I never imagined winchester was made outside the USA but the fact you have some made in france tells me for one reason or another they are outsourcing to foreign companies and or reloaders here in the U.S. Fortunately the french are putting out a good product but the bad stuff you have there indicates production by companies with lower standards. It's as though they are using brass already used multiple times and selling it as new
es, the Olin Corporation owns the Winchester brand name and makes ammunition under that name. The Olin Corporation acquired Winchester Repeating Arms Company in 1931 through the Western Cartridge Company, a forerunner of Olin. Winchester is a leading manufacturer of ammunition for sporting, law enforcement, military, and industrial purposes. Winchester has been supplying ammunition to the U.S. military since World War I and has operated the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant in Independence, Missouri since 2019. Your shells are the rejects. Not sure if they are to sold to the public, error ?
Them being rejects makes no sense. They wouldn't end up in boxes on store shelves if they was. I have 30+ boxes jacked up amd not even close to the sane lot numbers... this isn't a simple mistake...
Interesting video hope you get the info for us. I haven't had any issues with 9mm, 45 ACP, 12 gauge, or 22lr but I haven't purposely purchased it in years given the QC issues. Only shot the 22lr recently which was ok but not mini mag, federal, or even aguila level ha.
You had me worried for a minute because I bought a bunch of SuperX 00 buck from PSA because they’ve been having them for $3.00 a box and luckily mine are made in France. It’s crazy because I’ve see the “made in USA” boxes at places and they were charging over $6 a box for them.
Recently I had to contact Winchester about their white box 9mm. I had multiple failure to fires out of multiple guns. The stuff was garbage. They bought back the ammo and refunded me my money. It will be a while before I give them more of my $$$
The idea that "Made in the USA" is somehow better, Well you have just proved that that is not always the case. Sad but true. Many American's these days are so entitled that they want to put in the least amount of work for the most pay and that's why you are seeing the results and IT'S NOT JUST IN AMMO, we are seeing it in many manufacturing processes these days. It absolutely breaks my heart to say but, data is data and facts are facts.
Well I haven't bought any Winchester ammo lately but used to be the really cheap bulk pack white box ammo was full of misfires while the red box and Super X ammo was good ammo. I have not had any problems with the Winchester ammo I have gotten but like I said, I haven't gotten any lately. At least not since Winchester got the military contract and took over at the government contract ammo plant at Lake City. I have heard the how bad the ammo has gotten since then. Maybe they are just selling civilians their blemished ammo. But I am just speculating as I don't know what their problem is.
The stuff withvthe shotgun ammo been going on for a long time. The stamps i not sure about. But the lumps on the side and the crimps gets lose. Is over time. The ones made in France probably will develop leaks and lumps over time.
Gun powder residue isn't usually a big deal. Dry brush it out until you can do a proper cleaning with solvent. Some powders are a bit more prone to leaving residue to the point of being notorious for fouling. In this current climate of ammo being in short supply you might get cheap powder in cheaper ammo that isn't super clean compared to others.
@gunactivites365 I just looked at my boxes of super x 00 and mine are made in France and look great just like yours, I have some Winchester defender #2 shot and it's made in USA, it's crimped okay but bad head stamp and dirty brass. Good video thanks for the info let us know what Winchester says.
winchester has poor quality control, they only care about profit. the french shells are made by Cheddite. its a shame really if you find a box of winchester ammo that's pre 2005 the quality is substantially better.
@jerrychance2791 By law for sale to the public ammo manufacturers are required to disclose/label if the ammo is remanufactured/reloaded and not new. I have never seen any brand name factory ammo that was remanufactured/reloaded or labeled as such although there are some businesses that are not brand name ammo companies that do sell remanufactured/reloaded ammo but they are labeled as such. Most gun companies won't honor warranties of guns that were damaged by remanufactured/reloaded ammo. However it is possible that ammo manufacturers under military contract like Winchester can sell their blemished military ammo that was rejected for military use.
@@GunActivities365 I know that the military keeps their fired brass casings and reuses them but I don't know if Winchester Lake City handles that or not, or if those cases are reused in factory ammo and passed off as new. Or just melted down into new brass cases.
@GunActivities365 looks like someone forgot to change the shot bushings or something. They are bulged cause the shot is overfilled! Either that or the wads were defective. Something was Def going on!
Noone said they wouldn't shoot....Obviously ill buy something different...You're missing the entire point... the issue is you're paying good money for something and not getting something good... you're paying alot of money for garbage quality from winchester.
@@GunActivities365 I understand your point, it's not first rate quality, apparently, their machine was out of specs for that batch. As far as the ones made in France, probably a contract job, I don't think Winchester has a plant over there.
ive used it in 40, 9mm, 223 556 300blk its only range worthy at best, IMO if you bought a new gun or built a new gun / assembled one this should not be used as you will have failures and make you think parts or not functioning properly. a few boxes of 300blk the brass looked corroded / tarnished... like it was is a leaky basement i didnt know until i got home obviously no return ammo policies it shot and had failure like it does but out of curiosity i went back to the same store and opened up like 15 boxes of it just to see the condition, all the boxes looked the same! brand new straight dry boxes with tarnished casings... no quality control or they just did not care! 2017 - 40 failure to ejects and light strikes 2019 - 223 / 556 red white box and green and white box also brown range packs and white range packs light strikes here and there nothing major 2020 - 9mm red and white box 115 147 124 could not clear a mag without a failure 2021/22 - 300blk supers red and white box... failure to eject, failure to extract, light primer strikes ( even after 2-3 re-reloads ) inconsistent powder loading, inconsistent OAL cartridge / bullet seating, dirty powder, some strange brass / shimmery stuff in the residue i havent bought any since early 2022 but i know theres tons of 2019-2022 ammo still out there and for roughly the same price theres better options. i didn't realize it but Herter's is also winchesters but havent shot it with my 300blk yet
I remember around 23 years ago right after I got my first AK, I bought a 20 round box of Winchester 7.62 x39 and what I discovered when I opened the box was insane. Several of the bullets were sunk deep into the necks of the shells and one bullet had sunk all the way into the bottom of the shell and gunpowder was loose in the Box since it has spilled out, and when I took it back to Walmart they exchanged it for another box, and I opened that box right there in the store and there were once again at least a couple more rounds that had the same problem. There was a huge tolerance issue between the bullet and the neck of the casings as they were very loose. I've honestly not had any problems with any Winchester ammo since that happened that I can recall but I will never forget those couple boxes of 7.62 x 39.
That’s a wild discovery you stumbled across. Love the content hope you keep keeping us aware ✊🏿.
It’s been going on for years. Lots of threads on Reddit and other forums. Winchester is in charge of lake city and overseeing all our military ammo for the next few which is kinda scary.
Olin is who owns Winchester ammo, they have manufacturing plants in the US and in France and a few other places in Europe. The French mfg plants adhear to the manufacturing process tighter cause they have to be imported where as the US mfg can be loose on their processes due to not having to be imported and having less "regulation" on its products due to importation laws. Its a bull crap reason for poor mfg but its what I see as a result of profit over product value.
Maybe “big brother” is paying the U.S. plants to pass garbage along to us?
very astute point
I was gonna say this may be a deeper issue we’re dealing with here, u mean to tell me there fine with selling Americans bad ammo while our allies have better it’s bullshit, this is the only dude on the internet even calling out Winchester rn
@@Hillcountryoperationsno he isn’t!
I've been wondering how long it was going to take for sabotage to start happening at some of these plants.
If anyone hasn't noticed, things are falling apart and people are struggling everywhere. That impacts workers who are not making enough to live. Kind of hard to care about the product when the company doesn't care about you. This is a corporate culture and greed issue.
Chemical company (olin), crap quality control, crap materials, crap employees who don't care. Normal these days-status quo
I've noticed lately USA made ammo is not as good as it used to be. I'm finding myself buying import ammo so much that I have forgotten how bad USA ammo can be sometimes. Only one that has stayed on my good to go list is Federal.
I have not had good luck with Winchester ammo especially the white box....Nowadays I just steer clear of em.....Good find and share on where it is made.....Good stuff....
Olin corporation has owned Winchester for longer than you and I have been alive, so that's not anything new. A slight hiccup on the loading line isn't unusual. The quality control people did not catch the goof in crimping. Also ammo contracts being made FOR Winchester isn't new either. Cheddite (look them up) is likely who loaded that contract ammo for Winchester.
When loading plastic shot shells, having little bumps or bulges in the shot area is not unusual in different brands. Also faint head stamping is very likely a worn die or machine pressure setting. It may look crappy but it does not affect the reliability or function. Given the ammo shortages we have seen over the last 4 years, I'm not surprised about minor cosmetic issues that may have been kicked to rejects or grade 2 just a few years ago. I have seen cosmetic grade 2 ammo being sold as such within the last few years because of the unprecedented demand stripping the ability of the industry to keep up.
Vista Outdoors has a variety of brands that will serve you well.
I also like Fiochi and Remington for my handguns. Only have Federal for my shotgun so far.
I've used about 90% of the brand names in the USA.
All the bad 40 S&W ammunition I seen from 1994-96 was Winchester White box. A coincidence? I don't think so.
Even though I cannot find 410, if Winchester 410 shells are available, I do not buy them. My gunsmith, a man I fully respect, told me to stay away from Winchester. Too many good options out there. Thank God we still , as Americans, have a choice.
Stay away from an imported brand of shotgun shells- ‘Rio’. (Name I’m not familiar with)
Dudes shot it in a Judge and had to drive the empty cases out of the cylinder is how tight they expanded to.
The difference between packaging is just local sourcing, I’m sure the unit in France isn’t buying their packaging supplies from the same vendor that the US building is. My best guess on the quality issue from my experience is that in the EU they have more strict regulations on producing certain types of products. I would guess they are using modern equipment with inline quality systems in place versus stateside they are using 50 year old machines relying on the operators (inexperienced) to catch inline issues and limited QA samples between operations. I worked for a company that made concrete adhesives and our domestic production process was decades behind our European plant making the same exact product. With that being said there is no excuse for those getting out the door, that’s a training issue caused by poor management.
Why are the ammo companies trying so hard to cheapen the way their products so much that the end result is doing nothing but insulting their customers!!! Also they are charging more money for a insulting product!!!! IDIOCY!!!
Thanks for sharing, hope you can get some answers!!
I have no asnwers, only theories. One train of thought is that anti gunners have infiltrated ammo makers with the intent of putting out bad product and hoping people will just give up and stop shooting. I never imagined winchester was made outside the USA but the fact you have some made in france tells me for one reason or another they are outsourcing to foreign companies and or reloaders here in the U.S. Fortunately the french are putting out a good product but the bad stuff you have there indicates production by companies with lower standards. It's as though they are using brass already used multiple times and selling it as new
Yes!
es, the Olin Corporation owns the Winchester brand name and makes ammunition under that name. The Olin Corporation acquired Winchester Repeating Arms Company in 1931 through the Western Cartridge Company, a forerunner of Olin. Winchester is a leading manufacturer of ammunition for sporting, law enforcement, military, and industrial purposes. Winchester has been supplying ammunition to the U.S. military since World War I and has operated the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant in Independence, Missouri since 2019.
Your shells are the rejects. Not sure if they are to sold to the public, error ?
Them being rejects makes no sense. They wouldn't end up in boxes on store shelves if they was. I have 30+ boxes jacked up amd not even close to the sane lot numbers... this isn't a simple mistake...
Interesting video hope you get the info for us. I haven't had any issues with 9mm, 45 ACP, 12 gauge, or 22lr but I haven't purposely purchased it in years given the QC issues. Only shot the 22lr recently which was ok but not mini mag, federal, or even aguila level ha.
Winchester T-shirts look and feel pretty good !
You had me worried for a minute because I bought a bunch of SuperX 00 buck from PSA because they’ve been having them for $3.00 a box and luckily mine are made in France. It’s crazy because I’ve see the “made in USA” boxes at places and they were charging over $6 a box for them.
The made in USA ones in the video came from psa couple months ago.
Recently I had to contact Winchester about their white box 9mm. I had multiple failure to fires out of multiple guns. The stuff was garbage. They bought back the ammo and refunded me my money. It will be a while before I give them more of my $$$
The idea that "Made in the USA" is somehow better, Well you have just proved that that is not always the case. Sad but true. Many American's these days are so entitled that they want to put in the least amount of work for the most pay and that's why you are seeing the results and IT'S NOT JUST IN AMMO, we are seeing it in many manufacturing processes these days. It absolutely breaks my heart to say but, data is data and facts are facts.
I don't disagree!
I've been more of a Remmington person for years but can't say I had complaint about Winchester. That said, I haven't shot their stuff recently.
Well I haven't bought any Winchester ammo lately but used to be the really cheap bulk pack white box ammo was full of misfires while the red box and Super X ammo was good ammo. I have not had any problems with the Winchester ammo I have gotten but like I said, I haven't gotten any lately. At least not since Winchester got the military contract and took over at the government contract ammo plant at Lake City. I have heard the how bad the ammo has gotten since then. Maybe they are just selling civilians their blemished ammo. But I am just speculating as I don't know what their problem is.
Winchester is gonna apologize and offer you a coupon. You aren’t the first to complain to them.
🤷♂️ maybe! I don't really know why I'd want a coupon 🤣
Winchester is so hit and miss... so I don't even try to buy Winchester
Anyone else have their .22 barrels lead up (seriously) fom that yellow box Super X crap?
Failures throughout their ammo lineup.
I haven't shot much of it myself. I've heard it's trash.
The stuff withvthe shotgun ammo been going on for a long time. The stamps i not sure about.
But the lumps on the side and the crimps gets lose. Is over time. The ones made in France probably will develop leaks and lumps over time.
Herters is dirty. It left excess amounts of powder residue on my revolver cylinder. I refused to use any more of it in anything I have.
Herters ammo is contract house brand ammunition from Bass Pro/Cabelas. Last I looked, most of it was Winchester made.
Gun powder residue isn't usually a big deal. Dry brush it out until you can do a proper cleaning with solvent. Some powders are a bit more prone to leaving residue to the point of being notorious for fouling. In this current climate of ammo being in short supply you might get cheap powder in cheaper ammo that isn't super clean compared to others.
Stopped buying WWB years ago after so many issues. Wont touch it even if it's on sale 🤷♂️
@gunactivites365 I just looked at my boxes of super x 00 and mine are made in France and look great just like yours, I have some Winchester defender #2 shot and it's made in USA, it's crimped okay but bad head stamp and dirty brass. Good video thanks for the info let us know what Winchester says.
I reload shotshells with euro hulls and shot. My pistol ammo comes from Europe. I dont buy US because of the cost.
Maybe like car parts...Chinese knock offs ?
4 last trainings.....70 shooters total.....over 35,000 shoots made.....only issues Winchester white box....bad primers, misfires......sad.
I noticed that Olin on my hollow point s i just got.
It's on like evert songle box i have but the buckshot that's good it's in a differnt spot than the bad buckshot.
Winchester became dirty ammo. Third world ammo in my opinion.
winchester has poor quality control, they only care about profit. the french shells are made by Cheddite. its a shame really if you find a box of winchester ammo that's pre 2005 the quality is substantially better.
I believe that Winchester made in the USA are remanufaured ammo..I hope you and your family have a great memorial day
I wasn't aware that was a thing! But all my other calibers are fine besides all whitebox and this super x gray box. You too!!!
@jerrychance2791 By law for sale to the public ammo manufacturers are required to disclose/label if the ammo is remanufactured/reloaded and not new. I have never seen any brand name factory ammo that was remanufactured/reloaded or labeled as such although there are some businesses that are not brand name ammo companies that do sell remanufactured/reloaded ammo but they are labeled as such. Most gun companies won't honor warranties of guns that were damaged by remanufactured/reloaded ammo. However it is possible that ammo manufacturers under military contract like Winchester can sell their blemished military ammo that was rejected for military use.
@@rbm6184 you said exactly what I was too lazy to type out!
@@GunActivities365 I know that the military keeps their fired brass casings and reuses them but I don't know if Winchester Lake City handles that or not, or if those cases are reused in factory ammo and passed off as new. Or just melted down into new brass cases.
Everything in this cpuntry has gone down hill because of several factors. Policy being a lot
Agreed!
All my winchester 00 buck is made in France, all bought at a big box store no complaints.
Good deal!
Those shells are horrible Gun Activities
100% i wanna know why the USA made one's look like garbage
@GunActivities365 looks like someone forgot to change the shot bushings or something. They are bulged cause the shot is overfilled! Either that or the wads were defective. Something was Def going on!
Man holy hell those crimps are cringe
100%!
I'll bet all of those bucks will shoot. Buy something different next time.
Noone said they wouldn't shoot....Obviously ill buy something different...You're missing the entire point... the issue is you're paying good money for something and not getting something good... you're paying alot of money for garbage quality from winchester.
@@GunActivities365 I understand your point, it's not first rate quality, apparently, their machine was out of specs for that batch. As far as the ones made in France, probably a contract job, I don't think Winchester has a plant over there.
@@Squizzle-56everything you stated is 100% speculation! If you don’t know, look it up or STFU!
Out of spec? I have boxes from years ago that are this way and I didn't notice it till now because I never opened them...
ive used it in 40, 9mm, 223 556 300blk its only range worthy at best, IMO if you bought a new gun or built a new gun / assembled one this should not be used as you will have failures and make you think parts or not functioning properly. a few boxes of 300blk the brass looked corroded / tarnished... like it was is a leaky basement i didnt know until i got home obviously no return ammo policies it shot and had failure like it does but out of curiosity i went back to the same store and opened up like 15 boxes of it just to see the condition, all the boxes looked the same! brand new straight dry boxes with tarnished casings... no quality control or they just did not care!
2017 - 40 failure to ejects and light strikes
2019 - 223 / 556 red white box and green and white box also brown range packs and white range packs light strikes here and there nothing major
2020 - 9mm red and white box 115 147 124 could not clear a mag without a failure
2021/22 - 300blk supers red and white box... failure to eject, failure to extract, light primer strikes ( even after 2-3 re-reloads ) inconsistent powder loading, inconsistent OAL cartridge / bullet seating, dirty powder, some strange brass / shimmery stuff in the residue
i havent bought any since early 2022 but i know theres tons of 2019-2022 ammo still out there and for roughly the same price theres better options.
i didn't realize it but Herter's is also winchesters but havent shot it with my 300blk yet