I’ve worked in the rv industry for over 30 years, 3 different manufactures(Coachmen, Jayco, KZ, and back at Jayco. They are all built the same, they are slapped together and the higher the demand, the cheaper the unit is made. They are not designed to last and are junk
I believe you the coverings for the slid out floor boards exterior are designed to get wet there by ruining your camper water will run down your slide out wall then wick your bottom floorboards causing mold ruining the carpet ruining your floor. The internal water filter will fail flooding your campy ruining your floor i plumbed it out to the exterior
The best information I've received about the brands so far in my search for a full time RV. Thank you. We were looking at a KZ and a Coachmen so this is priceless info. Thanks again!
It true. I did a few years in rvs too. They would fret over saving $200 and losing some weight of the unit. We built large 5th wheels so weight mattered but literally a couple hundred dollars give me a break just lose a extra VP or two and there’s your money.
If RVs aren't junk, why do we only get a 1 year warranty? Why is it that mfrs like Thor, Cardinal, Forest River, and Grand Design have reputations for poor quality build, poor quality control, poor customer service, and poor tech support? Why do most mfrs use cheap china bombs that damage chassis components when they blow out? Why are there so many lemon law claims and litigation between dealers, customers and mfrs? Why are there so many structural, mechanical, and electrical problems right off of the line? Why are there 30+ year old RVs still on the road going strong but RVs built today last no longer than the warranty period? Why do mfrs use the cheapest materials available and then charge a premium price? Why is it that the only difference between RVs are the features you opt for? Why, after towing a short distance, do seams become misaligned and water leaks start because of bad seals and materials? Why have awning and slideout fails caused so many accidents? Why do I have to pay more money for items that should have come with the rv for the price I paid? You should be asking the rv mfrs why they make junk, not us. We would like to know why as well. I doubt you will get a straight answer though.
We have a winner.. Exactly... Question the manufacturers on their building practices.. Would love to have a consumer based show with a backbone to have honest conversations with manufacturers about the numerous known problem in the entire industry... The automotive industry has improved substantially over the years.. RV's have gottten worse.. There are enough people to support a program or channel that tackle these issues ... A serious honest show on the behalf of consumers...
Exactly! When we were looking for used RV's we finally found a salesman that had been in the industry for 20+ years. We asked him about models he thought to be the most reliable and repair free. He mentioned 4 different Mfg's and we ended up buying one of them a 2011 Carriage Cameo (still being made now but not the same company or work force so buyer beware). We have lived in it full time for 6 months out of the year, for the past 5 years and have yet to experience any major problems or repairs due to Mfg. defects or quality. The only items we have replaced have been "wear" items: tires and brakes but that should be expected in a unit that is now 9 years old. We recently looked at some new models, yah know if our lottery tickets ever pay off, and for the most part we didn't really like what we saw. Probably purchase a new truck instead, they at least have a 3-5 year warranty.
You lost me when I realized by your questions you had never really examined how they are built, spent any time maintaining and repairing one or seen one after a blown tire comes thru the living room floor.
I was a professional rv technician for nearly 3 years and worked on nearly every brand and thousands of units. I'm not biased, they're all thrown together pieces of crap that cost way way too much money! The reason people call the units junk is because every sing brand new rv has a laundry list of problems from the factory, some of which are major safety issues. They are supposed to be found and corrected during a p.d.i. at the selling dealership however there are many, many things that cannot be caught during the inspection process and anyone who has purchased a brand new rv has experienced the headache of warranty service. That said many manufacturers deny perfectly legitimate claims for vague, rediculous reasons and naturally this pisses off customers who just paid tens if not hundreds of thousands for what is supposed to be a brand new rv that should theoretically be problem free and ready to go! With that in mind I'm sorry to burst anyone's ego here( not😁) but they all have problems from 20k to 100k. If you really want to improve quality and materials go custom! There are manufacturers that build custom units and many individual highly skilled techs that do this because they were tired of the production garbage they worked on and take pride in their work. I am one of these techs! In example of above build quality statement, I have hooked water up in a bran new $50k unit and it flooded due to the manufacturer failing to make plumbing connections that were hidden behind fixed panels. After that the area has to be taken apart to fix the factories screw up for which the technician doing the work is often cheated out of much of the time he works to fix the problem because the manufacturer claims that the issue is able to be fixed in a given amount of time that they also set which they claim is industry standard but that's a lie. You can imagine how that affects the technician's motivation to do a quality job vs a quick job making the repair. There is no way to standardize the amount of time fixing every issue that an rv may have. ie. I have discovered electrical shorts and hot or live wires left disconnected that were burried in walls. This is all due to pushing production at the factories and having little to no quality control nor care about the unit or customer once it leaves their factory. Look into lawsuits against rv manufacturers/dealerships. Most of those against dealerships are likely due in great part to the terrible factory quality. You asked, there it is! Hope that helps many.
you mentioned other manufacturers that take pride in there work. Who would that be? That way the people wanting to buy , or new to RVs would know who to buy from.
My Casita was not sold at a dealer, it is not RVIA certified (expensive meaningless sticker, that says its good) It's my opinion that overall quality is bad in most manufacturers. Every single new RV owner I know have had problems. I needed to go through my RV, test, check, repair. It was 10 months old when I bought it highly discounted. Functions well, reliable, because I fix it, repair it.
Looking at the comments, it seems reasonable to expect: * Sound Engineering * Best Manuf. Practices * Meaningful Lemon Laws * Self-Regulated Industry * Infusion of Ethics in Business * World-Class Customer Service
You have that in expensive units. No, 100k is not expensive. Go to custom shops and high end shops like Prevost or New Horizons and maybe even Luxe and you get exactly that. But you pay for it. Like 300k+ for a trailer and 500k+ for a motorcoach. If you're buying cheap, don't think you're getting the best. Pretty simple ;)
RVIA recreational vehicle industry association, a meaningless sticker that cost the manufacturers several hundred $$ per unit, but gaurenteed nothing. I have bought RVs without the RVIA Sticker, they were better built. They put thst value into the RV.
Buy a fiberglass shell one peice top RV. That includes Casita, bigfoot, Escape. Some class A have this feature $$$. My Casita is 8 years old, never leaked, fiberglass doesn't rot. None are cheap new
There are a ton of rv’s that delaminate. They are all over the place. Roof leaks come up fast these days. You would think they would come up with a solution for that. Maybe a one piece fiberglass roof. Quality control on chalking. Support under the showers are ridiculous. Window shade quality. Sloppy staple work. Horrible radios and televisions. Weak dinettes. Dinette cushion support is cheap. Key lock quality. Tires sucked for years. China bombs were criminal. Turnaround time at the dealership. Seems like any place we go to get work done they treat you like you are an ass. Refrigerators are junk. Dealers not telling the truth about towing capacity. They should have better tank readers by now. That being said we have noticed better floor plans and colors. I think the younger generation finally got that across to the manufacturers.
The 737 max crasher-suicide-airplane, has ECAS flight software designed by an intern, untested with no pilot training. It now has an "off" switch, took them a year to figure that out after 2 total fatal crashes. My favorite headline, planes engineered by clowns, managed by monkeys. They're flying again, for now......
I will tell you for a fact. When production goes up. Quality goes down. So, when there is a jump in sales, as we've seen this season, manufacturers try and crank out more units to keep up with demands. When the production floor runs into a problem on a unit, they will do what ever it takes to keep the lines moving. When a worker is being pressured by their team lead, who is being pressured by their supervisor, who is being pressured by their plant manager, who is being pressured by their district manager..... things that normally get fixed properly, get fixed improperly. Just to keep the numbers moving. Especially at the end of the month.
Everyone working under pressure to make more and more profit every quarter is the problem with RV manufacturing, tire shops, car and rv dealerships, manufacturing in general, research and development.......
Absolute true! I do think this problem has been ongoing, even before the "pandemic". My 2018 is full of quality problems. Mostly from pure lack of quality control.
@@garyreed2206 right!? Except... we’ve been waiting 3 months for our svc appt and now told it will sit there another month before it’s looked at... 4 mos for functional defect that prohibits usage is highly unreasonable.
Very well put. One of the main problems from where I sit is perception and expectation. We bought a new trailer because we knew our first use was going to be the entire summer. We had done A LOT of research, been on blogs and forums related to RV'ing, watched hours of RUclips videos from every brand, model and style available before narrowing down and making our choice. However we ended up having just about every problem with our trailer on that 10 week trip that's possible in a trailer. Water leaks, awnings coming off the trailer, first time we used the heater the trailer filled with white smoke, brakes caught fire, 95% of the time we tried to "auto level" we ended up having to manual level, propane leaks, windows coming out of their tracks, numerous screws coming loose, blah, blah. Most of our issues were due to the fact that this unit wasn't prepped correctly by the manufacturer or the dealer. It didn't even have a deep cycle rv battery, it was delivered with a regular auto battery. The service department of the dealership we purchased from was terrible....check that, absolutely useless to deal with. Rude and disrespectful to say the least. Their service center was massively understaffed when compared to the sales center. They had thousands of rv's and dozens of sales staff running around, but 3 service bays and 4 maybe 5 guys servicing units. When you have 12-15 delivery prep bays and 3-4 service bays there's a problem. They told me the wait for repairs UNDER WARRANTY would be 4 months. At that point the trailer was un-useable. We called the manufacturer and asked to bring the trailer back to the factory for warranty repairs. They went one better and sent a man to pick up our trailer and haul it back to the factory. There they fixed every single one of the items on our 17 item punch list and replaced several other very costly items that we hadn't even asked to be fixed or replaced. The rear bumper and the front steps that I slightly damaged during normal usage. We learned A LOT in those first 10 weeks. The auto leveling problems we were having were because although there was enough voltage, there was not enough amperage to properly run the system. We kept getting errors. The heater filled the trailer with white smoke because they are shipped with grease on the fire box to keep it from rusting, a proper pre delivery inspection would include running the heater till this grease burns off at the dealership and not running the customer out of the trailer half naked on a cold dark rainy Mt. Rushmore night.... Propane leaks are just inexcusable, leaking propane is an explosion waiting to happen. The pressure regulator was not even properly adjusted from the factory or the dealership and several components were not properly sealed both pipe dope or properly tightened. Absolutely no excuse for this leaving a factory like this. We were delayed 11 days after the right rear drum brake caught fire, waiting on the factory to ship the new axle to the service center in Wyoming. Then, when the new axle arrived from Indiana, the service center replaced the front axle rather than the rear axle which had been on fire.... We were absolutely incensed at this point and questioned everything including our own sanity. I literally wanted to let the trailer slide off a cliff at this point. I did not even want to continue this once in a lifetime trip we had been planning for and saving for....for years. So as I said in the beginning. Perception and expectation is paramount in buying any RV from pop up camper to the multi million dollar diesel pusher coaches. Choosing the right dealership is very important. Saving $3,000 on the purchase price then having ZERO after sale service and incredible rude service people is WAY worse than paying $3,000 more and having a good and reasonable service experience. PAY ATTENTION ***You will have maintenance and trouble shooting issues from day one of ownership regardless of buying new or used.*** And you will have to wait on the dealer or the factory to fit you into a long line of customers that are also waiting on service. This is unavoidable, either deal with it calmly or prepare to be angry and feel slighted pretty much for as long as you own the unit. If you're not handy with a tool, RV'ing is NOT for you. Having the right truck that is more than capable of handling the weight and size of your chosen trailer cannot be stressed enough. If your trailer is overloading your truck and you're having problems with both truck and trailer, that is neither the trucks or the trailer manufacturers fault. It's YOUR fault. At the end of the day, you bring you on vacation with you. If you're stupid or impatient or angry or all of the above, you will not enjoy camping. However if you are reasonable and you love the out doors and have a handy hand, a reasonable amount of patience and the ability to go with the flow. You will have the absolute time of your life exploring and experiencing all that this massive and beautiful country has to offer. America is absolutely stunning. You can literally explore just the USA alone for your entire life and cannot possible see it all. Choose wisely.
Very well written. You have nailed Rving as a whole. It's frustrating, if you let it be that way! This video and others tell their stories. There's a hundred different scenarios. There are hundreds of videos with great ideas. Rving is not for everyone choose wisely is correct!
I also spent a significant amount of money on my truck to tow my RV. It also bounces and flexes going down the road. Would it be ok to have trim pieces falling off? A fuel leak? Water intrusion? Seating that the pleather peels off within a year? Significant fitment problems? We hold RV manufacturers to a lower standard because why??? Because buyers often have no where else to turn for a quality RV. The manufacturers know this and as long as they can get away with it, they will choose to maximize profits over reliability and quality. They sell some of these well into the upper ranges of 5 figures and some even into 6 figures. There are no emission standards to meet (on 5th wheels and Travel trailers), no complex mechanical components like engines or transmissions. There are no crash tests or insurance standard test requirements to meet. They are pretty much mass-produced walls and cabinetry with a few moving components like slides. They install cheapest furniture they can put in there. Profit margins are through the roof. There is room for considerable quality improvements with little to no effect on the out the door price.
@@MisterMikeTexas yes. That’s the only way we’ve figured out to be able to efficiently cool something below freezing using a heat source and not electricity.
The newer 12v fridges with Danfoss compressors are going to be the new standard. Efficient, effective, bigger capacity in a similar footprint, and you don’t have to worry about keeping your fridge level to function properly.
I do understand how they are built and that is exactly why I think they are junk. I've grown up around aviation, off road and commercial transportation. The only units I've seen that hold up are older travel trailers using stressed aluminum body, units built on busses, units based on medium duty truck chassis and Lazy Daze. Nothing with a wood frame has impressed me really. I'm honestly looking for an early 70s travco or executive Class A. I'd be money ahead updating a soundly built unit that was built with the ability to easily serviced and can be updated with modern commercial grade running gear. A person could spend hundreds of thousands on an RV or camper and still deal with bad engineering, cheap material quality and no customer support. We camp in the desert and have to go down rough roads. Not many units have instilled confidence in their quality. The companies that do market off road capable units have this obsession with festooning their units with a bunch of unneeded "tactical" or Survivalist gear that won't ever get used and sky rockets the price.
I bought a 2020 Heartland Bighorn 39MB in May. Let me tell you the issues we’ve had. 1) Inverter would not power the fridge when hooked to battery or my truck. The fix: found the inverter was wired to a bedroom outlet and not the fridge. 2) The landing gear would not retract on departure from our first trip. The fix: found all wires on hydraulic manifold falling out of the wiring lugs that were not crimped properly. 3) Bedroom lights would not come on and was popping fuses. The fix: found the lights wired to the satellite and vise versa. 4) Gray tank #2 and black tank indicators wired backwards. The fix: crossed the wires between the indicators to read proper tanks. 5) Refrigerator stopped cooling. The fix: who knows. It’s back at the dealer. 6) Wiper seals falling off. The fix: who knows. It’s at the dealer. 7) Cheap Trailer King tire blowout at 2200 miles. The fix: none. Cheap tire being replaced by Heartland with the same cheap tire. 8) Multiple trim pieces falling off. The fix: Liquid nails. 9) Bathroom fam fell out of the ceiling. The fix: At the dealer for repair. 10) Blinds falling off the mounting fixture. The fix: Who knows. At the dealer now. 11) Kitchen cabinet doors falling off. The fix: used screws longer than a snails penis to secure them. All of this in three trips and less than 3000 miles. I would not recommend Heartland to anyone. They joked with me saying my rig must have been built on a Friday. Here’s a tip... do not joke with a man about the quality of your product that just spent $60,000 on your product. It’s not funny. Stay away from Heartland.
underrated comment. Im in the process of wanting to buy a travel trailer and the ones I want for my family is 40k. Nope, im not paying for something I feel im getting ripped off. Not only that things were falling off just looking at them at the dealer. Ill pass
It's about "I just spent 60-100K on something and this that or the other thing broke, I'm pissed!"... totally understandable. It's not like these are low-cost disposable items!
@@werewolf5674 I’m saying most of these 5th wheels fall into the 60-100K price range. So somebody spending that kind of money has every reason to expect a reasonable level of quality.. we aren’t talking about a $50 item here... they shouldn’t be considered disposable when they cost 2-3x what a typical car costs that you expect to keep for at least 5-10 years...
@@mikekopack6441 Exactly. I bought a nearly 6 figure RV and it was total trash. A lot of the issues were fundamental engineering and design related, not even due to shoddy construction.
@@sulphuric99 That does suck. Can some of this be mitigated by due dilligence though? Like finding owners of those units and asking what the major flaws are and avoiding them if they haven’t been addressed? If it’s an actual engineering flaw then the problem should be fairly common, like “The slide design causes this issue!”… then others should be experiencing it too. I know no design is perfect, but some problems are worse than others. Trim popping off is not the end of the world. A slide popping open in transit would be a pretty big problem. Is such due dilligence even possible with design changes every production year? Genuinely curious from a “Want to buy a trailer but don’t own one yet” perspective.
The things about my Jayco I question the most are engineering related. They chose to run the wiring for two of our slides through the wheel well an inch above the tire. I discovered this after the slide didn't want to close because the wiring was torn up by the tire. I looked and it could have easily been run on the inside and avoided the wheel well area completely. When I spoke to the repair manager he agreed it was a bad design but they still do it that same way in newer models. Just about every day you see a post from someone having problems with their Atwood/Dometic furnace because of a sail switch problem. Yet Jayco still installs the same furnace in all of their RV's. I've worked for manufacturers and if you are a large customer you can push back to the supplier and demand they correct a known issue. This probably would cost less than $5 to fix with a different sail switch. I also had crossbeams on my frame break loose and fall off as I've seen with other people posting in forums. The welder that repaired them for me said they should have used double the thickness of metal and the welding was poorly done. It's basic things like this that can easily be improved with almost no additional cost that are frustrating for owners.
Still having problems with my Pinnacle 2019 50 50th Anniversary can't tell what color paint it is every for every 50 years or what and my pin box has been trying to figure it out with a dealer that's why the dealer so important
We have a 2015 Jayco C, 12,000 and my husband and the wiring is not like you described it. We don't have the same wiring as you described, as the wiring through the wheel well. We did have a problem with a sail switch problem, that my husband fixed. These are good things to ask, when buying a new RV. I think people who are buying a new RV, need to do a lot of research.
Yep, sail switch for me as well. On a two year old Bigfoot. No fun camping in the winter when that goes out in the middle of the night. A new one is on order, but will it be any better?
I spent years researching before I bought mine. I was between Lance and Airstream. I went with Lance for half the price. I may get an Airstream next. In my humble opinion, Lance's manufacturing procedures and materials are some of the best in the market. They are also very expensive for the size. They are small in general too so they are not for everyone. For a "minimalist" (not really but for RVing yes) couple with some money to spend, who wants to travel the country in all 4 seasons, the Lance is a good choice. I camped in it over the Christmas holiday for two weeks in snow and temps down in the teens. She did great!
My wife and I are nearing retirement. We’ve been talking for 20 years of our dream to own a fifth wheel and living all across the country, not visiting but living, getting to know the places and the people. As we get closer and doing the research, looking at reviews, forums, and groups; I’ve come to the conclusion that most American RV manufacturers are making junk. You ask do I want quality and expense over availability and affordability.....YES! A hundred times yes! I’d rather have a used well made RV than a new RV that is only made to look good long enough to drive off the lot. Why would I want to pay for tires that every one agrees will have to be immediately replaced? I want to experience the country, not spend my first year of retirement at the factory doing warranty work. Why is all the quality and innovation coming from Canadian, Australian, South African and European manufacturers? I’ll say this, what US manufacturers are producing has led me to: 1. Never buy new. 2. Learn to live with a smaller, quality RV. 3. Try to buy from a Canadian manufacturers, who seem to put a premium on build quality. I’d rather buy American and I hope and pray American RV’s manufacturers will step up soon.
Airsteam makes RV that last decades.. they can be bought used, becuase they last a long long time.. no wood other than some cabinet doors in them.. aluminum will last a long time.
Yes I would pay more for an rv that doesn't fall apart in the long run you end up paying more anyway for repairs ..let them take more time for better quality.
Our Airstream has been on the road since 1988 and still going strong!! However, she was $33,000 new and it would cost me $130,000+ to replace her. Only immediate item that had to replaced was the refrigerator in 2007. Otherwise, we have upgraded here/there at our leisure. Certainly not as roomy as modern rigs, but she is solid!!
I called camping world when I lived in virginia. Said I need a state inspection and tires installed. I told the person on the phone I had the tires just needed them installed. He couldn't figure out what I was talking about. I had to say tires you know black rubber things that look like a donut and go around on the road. He was like oh yeah take it somewhere else and hung up on me.
I really appreciated our dealer when we purchased our Montana this year. It was our first 5th wheel, actually our first RV. He said, "look, these things are built really well, but it is an RV... it is basically a house that will go through a minor earthquake everytime you move it. Buy a nice cordless brad nailer and just get used to checking everything when you get to your location." We have found that he was right. All the really important thing. The frame, the suspension, electrical and mechanical features have been excellent. But for the first few trips, everytime we got to a new location, some trim piece fell off. Doesn't make it junk, just an RV.
A lot of it is production quality and quality control. If those two aspects are weak then when it comes to service the owner experience is skewed and many times spoiled for good.
I'm just shy of 50yrs old and grew up in my family's 3 different campgrounds across Florida. We have campgrounds ranging from 12 lots to well over 100 lots. Have over 35years experience with our own rental units, fixing others units, and in&out of 100s of other people's units. I understand the manufactures position, but my opinion is MOST brands do not focus on build quality that lasts. They cut so many corners and lack consistency each unit. Nobody with a good financial mindset wants to drop money on a unit that starts with a overly inflated price, depreciates it's value sooo quickly, within shorter amount of time than other "assets" , while simultaneously falling apart in a shorter amount of time too. Not ALL but MOST are not worth the overall loss/depreciation. On a positive note: I am liking what Grand Design has been making and their approach the past few years. They seem to have a good 'backwards' approach focusing on customers and build quality first and earned some good awards in doing it.
@@hummer4u2nv11 Grand Design is the WORST. We had 10x more problems than with our Forest River product and the worst customer service I've ever dealt with with any company. Our neighbor has one and the slide was ripping up the flooring. They had to jump through hoops to get it repaired. I called them about having to wait to have a WARRANTY problem looked at because the dealership had to call them first to work on it which is not acceptable. I spoke to some arrogant twit at the headquarters. Should have stayed with Forest River but heard that Grand Design built a good rig and had good customer service. We had some issues with the Forest River rv and they said just to bring it where ever we wanted, no problem.
@@jameshickman3939 sorry to hear of your experience. That has not been mine and only 1 guy I know of personally had a 'issue' but later found not as big as he 1st thought. He informed that he was surprised about being handled quickly and helpful. (Geez this sounds like I'm connected or work with them, but I'm not in any way). Just sharing what I know. Anyways i just wanted to reply back and also I agree about some of the Forest River units (I am very-very picky with most any unit). I never-never buy on impulse. I typically spend weeks researching and 're-researching my research again", and walk thru many times checking the chassis, axles, roof, walls, etc...thoroughly before actually choosing any unit). OCD at it finest. If the seller moves on and I 'miss a deal' then I just wait bcs there IS ALWAYS another deal. My advise is 'fall in love with the value not the unit'.
I spend time in junkyards looking for parts for my antique vehicles. I see RV'S in there all the time. The problem I've seen is the structural wood in the walls, roofs and floors. Water from road spray and rain plus flexing causing leaks of the unit which quickly rots the wood. The more wood in structure the faster they rot into junk and fall apart. There is good reason wood was fazed out in cars in the late 30's.
...and all the manufactures have to do is used pressure treated wood that doesn't rot! The price difference may only be 10% higher cost for the wood. I would gladly pay the price difference for pressure treated wood than have an RV, camper, or trailer start a slow rot after the first rain.
if you full time in it that is $500 month rent plus a campsite if you live that way. Much harder to justify if you are weekend warrior... but heh, it's your money, spend in whatever way makes you happy.
Name one thing that rolls down the road that does better? All vehicles depreciate. Plus the internal styling is a big deal. An old camper with shag carpeting doesn’t sell because of the dated interior. People want a pleasant experience while on vacation.
I have a funfinder that is now 9 years old. I paid $14K for it new. I was offered $6K for it the other day. I'm not selling. Why ? Because it's still just fine, is nowhere near ready for the landfill. If you are taking a new trailer and sending it to the landfill in 15 years, congrats, you don't know how to maintain a trailer.
A local indpendent RV repair guy told me that local dealers were his best source of customers. Their high prices and don't really care attitudes make customers look for alternatives after a dealer took their money without resolving the problem they brought their unit to the dealer for to fix.
This is an absolutely patronizing, BS VIDEO from J.D. . To act naive and ask about cosmetic, layout, or other subjective aspects of RV construction is your attempt to say people are being unreasonable and simple minded. Your attempt to gloss over the lack of real engineered design and high quality manufacturing in the RV industry means you are converting this channel from a consumer advocate to an industry promotion. And the slide design on most RV is a joke, cable or rack in-pinion. That being said I truly respect your knowledge and value your channel, maybe I’m wrong and miss interpreted the underling motivation for this video, surprising enough I believe the industry is delivery Value and trying to deliver what customers want, however please don’t treat us like idiots, RV’s don’t depreciate to basically worthless for no reason.
Brent, You are absolutely correct. This may be the worst video on RUclips, total wrong. I have worked with the manufactures directly and their assembly and engineering is horrible. Everything from dangerous installation techniques of wiring to extremely poor assembly techniques. My Thor and Foresters had significant problems with the Thor being the worst. Parts falling off, leaking showers and many other problems. The dealers are overwhelmed by problems as they are the final quality control . It is a terrible industry. Just read the forums and it will give you a clue of the problems and how so many people are disappointed in these vehicles.
I'm an old guy. During my life time I've owned a Class A, a tent trailer, two Class C's, and a Class B. The van Class B was the highest quality product. The rest were what I call Cracker Boxes not worth the money. How much more money would it cost to use treated wood that won't rot once wet? How much more money to have a roof design that won't leak? With the exception of my little Class B, all of the rest were designed for looks, not for longivity.
When children of the devil of evil build things n sale them, you got all kinds of cursed voodoo things that happen in babylon that messes things up n are not done better n wiser at times n sometimes are real dangerous to use Instead of a bunch of demon devil cursed hell hole human being children of evil doing it n some are major drug addicts n are high doing it n make more mistakes cause they are high n some of them were more wise n better at doing things but they destroyed their body n brain to much n they cant work as good Let some really blessed heavenly holy spirit filled human beings who have lots of working angels n who been really born again n are real fulltime servants of Jesus n are real wise n real good n really experienced do it n it will go way better n many people will be way happier n have way safer n way better rv n trailer homes that will last n work real good.
A couple of years ago I was watching a factory build video of a Raptor 5th wheel. As the 2 guys were putting in the fiberglass roof insulation one of them cut it about 6in short. He then proceeded to separate the insulation and pull part of it to fill in the shorted area. This was a video put out by the manufacturer. Of course, they’re talking the entire video about what a great product they make.
I once called Keystone for a wiring diagram for a Montana. I was told they don't have them because changes are made on the production floor. That means that the monkeys putting them together make it up as they go along. Wire management is non existent. So when you pull the main electrical panel to find the loosely fitted spade connector that came off, you usually cause more damage by disturbing the mess. I removed the belly covering on my current Solitude to find that the wast tanks were not installed properly. They were not able to drain and because of the mis positioning, the supports were bent and had to be repaired. This problem was caused during assembly at the factory. While doing the first suspension maintenance on the same Solitude I found that the wet bolts were installed dry.... not a single trance of grease. Also, not all of the bolts were wet bolts. The result was the suspension was completely worn out on a two year old unit and had to be replaced. I too had the China bomb experience. That one damaged a twelve foot piece of skirting. In summary, I spend more time fixing the factory mistakes than maintaining or improving the unit. I keep hearing that "these units live a hard live going down the road." Maybe they should build them to survive that environment. To put it in perspective, compare these RV's to the trucks that pull them. The fifth wheel costs more than the truck, it might have half the parts count and it lasts half the life of the truck. The technology and build quality in the truck is far superior for less money. These problems are industry wide.
Also it's about buliding mindset. As you mentioned, the methods they used to build the RVs are like what they used in the houses. But a house don't travel hundreds of miles on a bumpy road like an RV does. So the RV builder would need a mindset and manufacturing tooling more like a vehicle manufacturer not a house builder.
@@jobe1911 Has nothing to do with lightweight versus heavier materials. It has to do with use of appropriate material within a design specifically made for RV usage conditions. It's like saying body on frame construction is better than unibody / monocoque construction because body on frame is heavier - therefore better in all situations and that's not true. Unfortunately, often lightweight materials are more expensive, design is more complicated, and fabrication is more costly in making an RV with the same robustness as heavier RVs. The easiest way to design something is when weight is not one of the limiting factors.
I totally agree, your home doesn't go down the highway over the humps and bumps, RVs should be built tougher so they don't fall apart down the road, it's the same with anything you buy these days, comes down to poor quality, make it as fast as you can and sell it for as much as you can.
I've often wondered why more people don't do exactly this. Use closed cell foam insulation to seal the thing and make it comfortable, then build out the inside taking care to minimize weight. It seems so sensible.
@@farmalmta : Not everyone works in the construction industry and has the skills and tools to build their own RV. And they shouldn't have to. That's what _manufacturers_ are supposed to do.
@@myozone That's because Prevost (and others)only builds the chassis. The RV maker supplies everything else, including the body. My advice, rent an RV from another owner through a listing. Much cheaper than Cruise America, etc. Get online, talk to fulltimers, ask questions. RVers love to talk about their mistakes. Don't buy new, don't buy until your confident. Do your homework. RV parks are expensive. Learn the real costs first! Know that new RV's will lose half their value within 3-4 years. Just like a boat. They also require maintenance, cleaning and storage, just like a boat. Sun fade, snow, rodents damage, freezing temps will damage them, and insurance premiums are costly. Just like a boat!
@@crankychris2 Indeed, We first bought a truck and trailer (both new) used them for 12 months then upgraded to the motorhome and Jeep (again both bought new) traveled around most of the US and Canada for 3 years. Anything on wheels is never a wise investment or come to that boats.I'm now looking towards a fully electric (propulsion) van (RV) here in the UK/Europe as the UK for one, is banning all new petrol and diesel engines in 2030.
When you ask if I would be willing to pay 10-20 percent more for screws vs staples ( better quality)....I assume you are referring to maintaining the profit margin for the manufacturi covering the additional build cost. How about asking the manufacturer if they are willing to spend the same 10-20 percent, leaving the retail price of the unit the same, and recovering that extra cost on the backend with less warranty claims and repeat buyers??
As a career flooring installer we use teflon coated staples for plywood or luan underlay. The teflon melts through friction when shot & glues itself when cooling. Results in much more holding power & would significantly decrease loosening of mouldings from flex. The cost? Approximately 2-3 dollars more than non glued staples per box of 5000. Negligible.
@@mikebertinshurtow Yeah and just wait untill there is a hot summer day and those fancy teflon staples will remelt and everything pops loose. Not even worth the time or the money. Pop rivets would be better than staples. Screws are always best.
Look at MSRP vs what you actually pay for it. That's a clue as well. When I can routinely take 35% off MSRP and that's what I expect to pay for the unit...
My 2020 forest river Salem I bought in Feb 2021. One tire blew on my sec trip. Was told load range D tires were too small for my trailer loaded at manufacturers specs. Then another blowout due to a cracked rim causing the whole trailer to twist causing the front roof to separate from the siding. Insurance said it wasn't possible, manufacturer said it was due to lack of maintenance. It was 6 months old at that time. I put load range E tires only for two more rims to crack and leak air. The bottom panels have flown off into traffic due to I don't know. Almost every external panel has separated from the molding. Kitchen sink separated from the counter top, almost every cabinet door and drawer has had the screws loosing up causing doors to hang off and screw holes to strip. It's been one thing after the next. This is the forth one I've owned in 15 years. I sound have kept my cheap one from the 80's
I was a service writer for RVs. Also, I managed a fleet of RV rentals. My reasoning for calling RV’s junk is from that experience. Not all RV’s are created equal. But here are some examples. The blinds. They break so easy. All the attachments pop out of the wall so easily and it’s difficult to find solid attachment points for the brackets that keep the blinds from moving back and forth when traveling. The dining tables. When you place a dining table in the floor mounts, it’s not uncommon for someone to push or pull on the table to adjust themselves and the crap aluminum mount crack and break. The dinning room benches are often 1x2 material. It’s breaks incredibly easy. If you lean back with a little too much force or sit down with too much gusto things start breaking and becoming loose and eventually needing a full repair. Plastic latched on the outside are always becoming brittle and breaking. Door latch and baggage door latches. Baggage door locks and door locks are incredibly insecure. Master keys are easy to get. A screw driver and some torque could get a latch to open. Cupboards. The cheap wood stuff is often non repairable. If you accidentally pull a screw through, good luck repairing that. It will be very hard for that hinge to ever be re-attached properly. The plumbing under the sinks and the actual faucets being plastic break so easy. A customer was loading TP under the sink and broke some of the plumbing under the sink by accident. If your kid grabs at and pulls on a plastic faucet, or plumbing, you will be replacing it. The walls are often 1x2. That means if you trip and catch yourself with a wall, likely that wall is structurally done. They snap so easy. Getting all the windows and roof to seal properly is rough. Brand new units could have a bad seal job. After water permeates the structure, often the damage is done. It’s hard to fathom why they haven’t found a good to to make a absolutely water tight machine. Rubber roof? Common man! Do better than that. Once the dicore fails, or the rubber roof tears, issues arise. Expensive issues. Same with vents and window seals. Anything that will allow water in. Heaven forbid you have a tire blow out. Might as well have a bomb go off in your RV. You would not know the difference. The thermostat in most the fridges is a joke. Causes all sorts of problems for new RV’s. (The probe that clips on the fins). That’s what I got for now. I’m sure I’ll think of something in a bit.
So, I guess I'll put my experiences in here. In 2015, my ex and I bought a brand new cyclone. The problems were, the back sliding door could be unlocked with a pinky finger if the back ramp was down, so that was a HUGE security issue being that there was electronics from the manufacturer in the garage and no lock on the door to the main living part of the trailer. Also, nobody mentioned how hot it gets in the back room, even though it's designed to be a potential second bedroom. Almost like there was no insulation. The ramps for the back garage and side deck on my model were both waterlogged within a year. The back was almost never down, the side was usually down as a play area for my daughter. Warranty did not cover either of them. Crummy/lazy sealing on the builders part? At 3k a door, I'll never get another toy hauler if any kind. The trailer had an incorporated vacuum system. It stopped having suction so I pull apart the possum belly walls to look at it. There was a 2 inch pvc water wye connecting the vacuum to the two vacuum outlets, one in the house, one in the possum belly. It was connected to the hoses using not hose clamps, but plumber/roofing tape. The hose pulled off the wye and the the plumber tape collapsed, sealing the hose. Just lazy workmanship. There's more, but I'll move on. This year, my girlfriend and I bought a new 2020 keystone avalanche. The sliding doors were a selling point for us, but they constantly fall, the rail falls off the wall, or the door screws pull out leaving the door dangling on one roller. The trailer plug for the lead line was not properly hooked up. A hot line arced to the neutral and burned up the converter. Just had that fixed today. 900 dollars for a lazy plug wire job. The middle hydraulic jack had a line come off it, running RIGHT next to a tire, then into the frame. Tire blew, ripped the hose apart. Had to cut through the bottom plastic sheeting to take it off and get it fixed. Put two 90° elbows on the lint to run it next to the other line. If you can count on one thing, count on blowing a tie now and then. Tire blew within the first 6 months of owning the trailer. Messed up the skirting and plastic wheel well piece. Rv manufacturers DO NOT CARE ABOUT QUALITY! They are all trash, from the fake wood, to simple design layouts like running hydraulic lines next to tires. I did see some rvs that were built more like horse trailers and looked like a far superior quality trailer, but they overdid the inside and turned it into a 300k dollar trailer... SMH. Why can't someone offer superior quality craftsmanship with a basic model design?
I used to work at a factory that built mobile homes when I watch these guys work it reminds me of the time in the factory. These guys are paid by units they build. The more they build the more they make. They will never slow down
Well my jayco octane had the furnace go out a week after I bought it, then the fridge went out, now the black tank came unstrapped and broke. So yea jayco is crazy.
From what I have seen is that enough people have had issues with build quality and product longevity that they feel they got burnt. I admit I have reservations regarding long term ownership because of this. Who wants to drop $40k on something that will be worthless in under a decade?
Assuming it lasts a decade, that's a $330/month average for a camper that you can use with your friends and family without limitations. That's a pretty good deal.
You would be amazed what you can get for a decade old rv if you maintain it. Factor in the quality family time you get out of it and numerous vacations and an RV is a great option. My family spends a minimum of 30 nights a year in our RV. I am not saying they are well built. In most cases they leave a lot to be desired. But they can be a worthwhile purchase as a holiday or vacation option.
@@mrosenblatt Eh how often are you calculating it being used? Realistically if you take it out 5 times a year over 10 years that is 50 outings. $40k/50 is $800 per not including maintenance.
@@mrosenblatt Assuming one could buy it outright instead of paying interest and one actually could use it constantly without it breaking, sure.... . I wouldn't want to drop money like that on something that'll fall apart in 10 years or less... Of course, that can be avoided if one keeps more realistic expectations for the size of a quality unit that $40k can get them.
I often hear you mention the use of Westlake tires vs Goodyear brand, or an inexpensive suspension system so they can put upgraded items elsewhere. What are they upgrading inside the unit that makes sup that difference? Example most campers use the same appliances, unless your going with residential appliances where are the savings. I would rather see better suspension systems and tires that offer better stability than 1 or 2 extra drawers in the kitchen. 1000.00 in better tires or suspension really doesn’t affect the numbers on a 40000.00 unit. Love your videos thank you.
We bought a Dutchman Aspen Trail with no slides but a big master and bathroom. It had a few little issues but the dealer was a nightmare. Kept our rig on the lot waiting for a gas fitting to be replaced, claiming it had to come from the manufacturer. Months later we found out it’s a standard fitting they had in stock. The guy fixed it but it still didn’t work. We went to an independent repair company who fixed it immediately but had to pay. RV’s have lots of issues and the dealers are not focused on repairing anything after the sale. Don’t buy their extended warranty, just pay out of pocket but find an independent to fix stuff or fix it yourself. Our daughter son in law and grandkids use our trailer more than we do. During Covid it’s the best way for a family to travel. Our son in law now does all the maintenance so it’s a win-win.
We've been doing a ton of research on RVs including going to RV shows and talking to people in the industry. The final conclusion was to pass on buying an RV and just travel by plane and staying in hotels. It seemed like a great idea but the gas cost was the straw that broke the camels back.
If I didn't hate flying, it might have been my choice as well. Airports are a pain, you know where, and the constant monotonous drone of the jets, drives me crazy within the first half hour! Oh, and apparently planes are truly one of the dirtiest places one can be, as they definitely are not a sanitary tube we all sit in.
1. It's about the build quality of RV in general. RVs are way down on quality comparing to vehicle manufacturers, and they are not necessarily cheaper. RV manufacturers need to modernize their production line with more robots and laser welding, etc. 2. Also, RVs are not as safe comparing to vehicles. I really hope NHTSA and IIHS would crash test RVs as they did on the other vehicles. As of the producing speed and cost, a robotic production line would be more expensive in the beginning, but it will be cheaper than hand made and better quality in the long run. 3. Also, the RV industry needs better quality control. It's well know that the RV dealership is the "last step of the assembly line", which should NOT be the way they do business. In the vehicle industry, if a vehicle has the quality of the RVs, it will be called a lemon.
Everything bought brand new with wheels on it is depreciating asset, except maybe a classic car. A new lawn tractor or a snow blower is even a depreciating asset.
I have a 2019 work and play by Forest River biggest piece of junk anybody could have ever purchased. From the floor to the ceiling bathroom leak water hoses have broken water tank has leaked the water heater is broken. I have owned it for 10 months and it has been in the shop eight of those months. I take it out for a trip only to return it back to the shop for repairs. This unit originally listed for $48,000. You don't know what you're talkin about!
My complaint is towards the manufacturer, forrest river. Unfortunately I am not in the position to purchase a super high end RV. I have a Salem Hemisphere hyper lyte 29BHHL. I did purchase this unit used and I do understand that that is my problem. However, I am baffled how awful these things are put together. There were water lines that were not even connected. They did not just come lose, they were almost 1 inch short to the connections. It is like they cut it short and did not want to take the time to do it correctly, so they slapped a fitting on it and called it good. That is not even the worst. Previous owner never used furnace. The furnace was installed with the outside vent pipes 3 inches to the left of the vent plate. I fired the furnace up, with my family inside and almost had a fire. Fortunately, I smelled it and stopped it. It burned a the wall under the cabinet. Forrest river response was, the unit is no longer under warranty. Really? This could have been deadly! It's not like it shifted, it was screwed to floor. That is why forrest river is JUNK!!!!
I just want a quality control department! I want manufacturers to stand behind there product. Why can't a company make a quality product? It because they want their quarter profit to be 1 billion instead of 900 million!
This video is on point. I'm from Elkhart IN and worked for a top rv company for many years and then went to a subcontract company and seen many other brands in one shop at one time. Some brands are better then others right from the start. It all comes down to price a line that produces more is going to be cheaper than a line that builds 3 a week.
I'm just shy of 50yrs old and grew up in my family's 3 different campgrounds across Florida. We have campgrounds ranging from 12 lots to well over 100 lots. Have over 35years experience with our own rental units, fixing others units, and in&out of 100s of other people's units. I understand the manufactures position, but my opinion is MOST brands do not focus on build quality that lasts. They cut so many corners and lack consistency each unit. Nobody with a good financial mindset wants to drop money on a unit that starts with a overly inflated price, depreciates it's value sooo quickly, within shorter amount of time than other "assets" , while simultaneously falling apart in a shorter amount of time too. Not ALL but MOST are not worth the overall loss/depreciation. On a positive note: I am liking what Grand Design has been making and their approach the past few years. They seem to have a good 'backwards' approach focusing on customers and build quality first and earned some good awards in doing it.
@@hummer4u2nv11 I'm glad to hear you say that about Grand Design. I've been very impressed with their products as well and plan to invest with them. Although the Jayco seismic is very impressive as well, tough decisions!
@@alandillon6469 we looked at used seismic, a few months back... Either the quality is garbage or the owners put it through the ringer.. but it did not look to have been built very well. Looked good on the outside.. but on the inside was a different story.. everything was broken or falling apart.. you name it from carpet, to doors, to trim, ac vents, cabinets.. It was rough.
The same argument happens here in Australia. Jayco have over 50 percent of the market here, but the general consensus seems to be that they build down to a price and not up to a standard. If you accept that then you also accept issues. We had a Jayco Caravan, sold it, moved 'up' to the Coromal bŕand. I must say, the fit, finish and overall quality feel of the latter leaves the former for dead. But of course you pay for that. Generally I have three rules that make me as the driver happy. If it tows nice and docile, if it stops when I want it to, and if the refrigerator keeps the beer cold, then all good.
I’ll tell you what made my 2014 Class A Thor Outlaw junk. The fact it leaked like Niagara Falls up front above the passenger seat whenever it rained from day one. The fact that there were lbs and kgs of sawdust hidden behind the bedroom cabinets, free to migrate all over the electronics back there. The fact that every single hinge popped right out of the interior cabinets at the most inconvenient times. The exterior storage door hardware that rusted out. The ramp door retract cables that jumped the pullys, the electrical outlet trim that popped off. The rubber trim on the stairs coming loose. The uneven hidden bed retract system making it store lopsided. Then Camping World’s outright inability to fix anything in less than 3 weeks (even under warranty), return phone calls or tend their repair desks even when you had a vacation planned months in advance so you can’t really use the thing when you have to.
When it comes to any dwelling that is meant to be driven from place to place over many thousands of miles, I consider anything that is primarily constructed using stick framing, plywood, OSB, screws, and glue to be junk. Higher end trailers and 5th wheels that use azdel, aluminum, and dovetail joinery in their cabinetry have a much better chance of holding up to the rigors of being bounced around on the road.
We are currently on our 4th travel trailer. It's a 2017 Rockwood Windjammer that we purchased new. Still looks and performs like new. The key to owning an RV is the understanding that you are going to need to take care of it just like everything else you own. If you saw our now 7 year old trailer you would swear it was new. It's our home away from home and we love everything about it. Truth be told, all four of the trailers we have owned have been great. I suspect the someday fifth one will be great too.
I have been following your channel for several months and have found it very useful. I just bought a 2021 Crosswind Cameo, 42' and live in it full time. I love it. It has 5 pull outs which gives me plenty of room. Is it perfect, no. I am 71 years old and have been around some. I never expect perfection in anything. But, it is very comfortable for just me. I have had no problems at all and a lot of that is because of your videos. Thanks.
Last weekend I walked into a travel trailer and thr door that separated the bedroom from the living area wouldn't even latch on a brand new trailer. The wall that was part of the door was so weak and thin that I would call that JUNK.
Both my bathroom doors in my brand new trailer were like that as well. Had to reposition the strike and actually cut into the frame more for it to shut right.
or more like "manufactured housing" companies who make a very similar product with stricter structural requirements, but can produce a bit more bang for the buck.
Auto manufacturers don't make each car by hand, individually cutting components to shape. They have a plant dedicated to >one< car model, and only make that. Every RV manufacturer switches models every few weeks in runs. They often only have a couple working floors making two or three different runs at a time. Ford makes about 350 MILLION cars a year. Jayco makes 50,000 RVs a year. you cannot compare the two industries.
They continue to use cheaper materials to make them lighter weight and there is no pride in workmanship.. from the cheap unit all the way to a 200,000 rig there are issues with the way they put them together.. if they built trucks like this people wouldn’t buy them but unfortunately there is no accountability in the Rv market..
I own a Keystone Challenger we bought back in 2007, and it has been almost trouble free! Got it at Bill Plemmons, RV in NC. They took care of me and did great work when I needed them. Whoever built my RV did a great job!
I went to the Springfield RV show and I noticed their advertisements said generations worth of fun then I look at their warranty and they had a 2/3 year Warranty They are justifying a large price tag by spreading it out over "generations" but only back their product for 2 or 3 year warranty, Is that right?
Guitar and a power amp, turn it way up while you tune up! Grunge rock is effective. The less skill, the better. Let your toddler wail away at Motley Crue or Hendrix, after turning up the gain up to 11. If your loud enough, you can drown out your neighbor's generator. :))
Keystone frames are built by Lippert , they are 1/8th thickness.. they will bend the first harsh dip in the road. Half ton trailer that's 30 ft ?? I don't think so
Im not an RVer but did do an RV trip in a Class C for a week and even though it wasn’t classy and cool it was amazing! Your tips help me figure out what I like and don’t like
Those amazing RV experiences are exactly why many of us decide to own our own, BUT unfortunately RV ownership has its own amazing problems and headaches. :)
Actually yes I would like a product that cost more and slow on delivery if it means that the product is well built and going to last. Because of mass production and demand is the reason for many models of different makes including high end are not lasting or needing repair soon after purchasing. Some products are priced exactly as a brick and mortar home thus the price should reflect quality.
There are so many things wrong with the overall RV ecosystem today that range from inferior engineering and profit at any cost construction, to an overwhelming lack of quality service, integrity, and accountability by manufacturers and representatives. If you can accept and are willing to pay for these, that’s a good thing I suppose. We used several for our business but dumped them for hotels and VRBO. Sure, we’ve saved lots of money but most importantly, we also eliminated all of the frustration, expense, and uncertainty that goes along with RV ownership today. It’s sad. We still lament the fact almost no quality options exist today. The dream is a nice one but one tempered by the unfortunate realities of today’s RV industry.
After only a few months of use, my new 2020 Shasta is junk because the quality of the wood is substandard and the slightest anything scratches it, the couch came unscrewed from the wall during travel, multiple pieces of paneling all over the RV have come off, the stove has failed, the door handles on two of the doors have failed and....10 problems. It has been over 2 months waiting for warranty work to be completed and I still don't have my RV back!!! Compare when I owned my Jayco for 3 years and sold it for $2,000 less than what I bought it for because I added some accessories, but bottom line, it looked new after 3 years of heavy use, that my friend is quality.
I think they call them “junk” because of the price. Most people cant afford these rv’s, and those that can barely afford them expect them to last 30 years. These are toys, not investments.
I own a 2008 Forest River Rockwood Signature Ultralight 32 foot travel trailer, which I purchased 2 years ago. It has two slides, and has been fairly well cared for. Unfortunately, the fiberglass exterior is delaminating, and I have found the areas around the slides to be very spongy and soft. I have since removed the interior paneling around both slides. Underneath was very wet, but what I was annoyed to find was the very poor construction and choice of materials. The factory had used aspenite (oriented strand board), which was close to mush/rotten around both slides. The trailer uses aluminum bracing, but I also found that only one edge of the aluminum box frame was actually welded. The factory used a poor grade white styrofoam insulation, however you could see gaps of up to an 1" in some places where there was no insulation installed. I pulled out the old osb, and glued in a solid piece of lumber (hardwood), and where there was gaps in the insulation I used a low expanding foam insulation. Over the hardwood, I screwed birch 7/16" plywood, and over that I glued plastic/acrylic sheet called mastic. The walls are significantly stronger and reinforced, and based on what I found, better than what came out of the factory. Shoddy workmanship, poor quality control, poor original factory materials has been my experience with my Rockwood. Particularly the quality control... it's evident that whoever inspects the original product doesn't flag things like gaps in insulation, etc. I have also pulled out windows where I have found there to be significant gaps present with no insulation. I am fortunate that I have the skills to repair and replace what I have found.
You're very detail oriented, articulate and logical in explaining what you're discussing. Many posters are simply lazy and/or unhappy in life and give very little thought or explanation when commenting on a video or product. Some comments simply need to be ignored.
I watched the video and read many of the comments - a good video and lots of good comments. From my perspective, when I bought my 24' travel trailer, I expected to enjoy it without worrying about things constantly breaking causing me to spend my time and money fixing things. The RV industry owes buyers that type of experience. I am pleased to say that I bought an Outdoor Manufacturing travel trailer, and I could not be happier with the trailer or the customer service (which I used one time to find out how a system works). I have had the travel trailer for four summers and have towed it over 20,000 miles. Two points: First, manufacturers owe buyers a product that is not constantly breaking regardless of price point. Second owners do have an obligation to maintain their RV in a reasonable manner inaccordance with manufacturers specifications.
I prefer an aluminum frame trailer to wood studs. I've only owned two used RVs. Both have held up fairly well for what the were and what they go through. Some people are just negative and have no real reasoning behind there complaint.
I had a $80k weekend warrior that was impossible to keep warm/cold. Found out why when I ripped off the AC. Exposed the few scraps of insulation! Totally unacceptable for a toyhauler that costs that much back in 2007
We bought a Prime Mfg Sanibel 3902. It's junk because we found 2 pages of items that needed fixing before we picked it up at the dealership (General RV, Hershey, Pa). These were items that should have been identified by the manufacturer and definitely should have been identified by General RV of Hershey, Pa. Of course, General RV of Hershey, PA, said don't worry we'll fix it. After months of trying to get General RV to tell us when they could fix it, they said they fixed 90 percent of our punch list. When we told them they never even worked on it they were "in shock". In short, they are junk because of the poor quality control at the manufacturer; they are junk because the RV dealerships accept poor quality built units and then sell them at overly inflated prices; and they are junk because the customer (myself included) continues to buy them in this poor condition.
I worked on the road 11 months of the year and loved my 36 foot 5th wheel. It was a mid level model, 3 slides, basement model. Unfortunately lightning hit it and set it on fire. The insurance company called in a housing contractor to repair it. He was going to use 1/2 inch sheet rock. He insurance totalled it. Is I still had it.
Not to be mean it is funny listening to the idea that taking the time to make something right instead of just stapling it together somehow constitutes higher cost. So making some cheaply because it is quicker or somehow make more sense on the assembly line cause it is faster. These units cost more today than they ever have and yet the quality is not there. If you don’t understand that concept then I am not sure you understand why people are upset. I do not expect to pay in excess of 50000 dollars just to have trim fall off or something else fail. If you quality control can not keep this from happening then you should not be in business. It is people who constantly make excuses for these manufacturers and justify it that are the problem. If you can’t stand behind your product and know that it is going to hold up why be in business at all. I am not talking about have a product for 10 years and going wrong either. If I were doing the reviews I would try and be honest about who really is doing the best in build quality and who has the best customer service ratings and which units have the best track record with customers. I don’t want to cause confusion I enjoy your channel and think you do a good job. I have my opinions and that is what they are my opinions. My thoughts would be that you are going to have people like me who think differently than you that is not a bad thing. So try not to take our opinions personally like it is against you. It just that concept that people won’t always agree on everything.
Love my Airstream! Yes, I don’t have the storage, ceiling height, jacuzzi tub, 4 slide outs, and full size appliances, BUT I do have a quality built unit that I will not have to replace! 15 year old Airstream that still looks brand new and has been towed 50,000 miles. Only problem I have had is tires and a door lock.
I have 23 international airstream and yes you have problems. When you have a home that goes trough an earthquake every week you have problems. If you want trouble free, stay in hotel.
Friend of mine years ago had a 30 year old Airstream... only problem I witnessed was the rat that ended up in a bucket of water one night. And that was sitting outside the trailer.
Rather just stay in a Hotel or cabin. Better than owning yard art that sits but you still have to keep insurance on. Camping is too much work and money. Remember you still gotta have something to tow the tin can. Not to mention fuel and maintenance costs. To each is own but definitely not worth the future headaches and depreciation.
I worked at a RV dealer that sold many different brands. Here's some facts that you need to understand. Calling them junk is slightly unfair. They arrive at the dealer with anywhere from 20 to 200 problems that the dealer has to fix. Some of the fixes aren't very well executed. They are more interested in how it looks rather than how it works. Most RVs are put together very poorly. They are designed very poorly. They cut corners where ever they can. As mentioned in the video, they use staples to hold things together rather than screws. Wires are run horribly, preventing easy maintenance. RVs bounce down the road and take a lot of beating, just like a car. They should be built a lot better. There is one brand that does the opposite. Airstream. That's why Airstreams cost so much more than any other brand. Keep in mind that you get what you pay for, if you're lucky. I am not affiliated with Airstream at all.
I strongly believe that when people are saying junk they are referring to the quality of workmanship. I have been disappointed with my brand new travel trailer due to the same reasons. There are plenty of factory workers assembling RVs and they all do the same thing. Rush rush rush and drive a screw in without any accuracy or measurements. Caulking is always sloppy on low end RVs and high end RVs. Peace work is the main issue I think.
Most RV’s are built for occasional use for family vacations, and just for a few summers. The quality is sufficient for that use case. Expensive, given the minimal projected use? You bet. Just rent to get that impulse out of your system.
We have a 2018 Forest River 5th wheel. The cabinets have fallen through carrying shorts! Real wood cabinets are a must on my next one. The light fixtures fall off. Table has come apart. The wire covers on both couches were not secure. Basically you have to be prepared to fix alot on your own. Im more worried about my front near where the generator goes. The entire thing is coming off the frame! BUT WE LOVE IT!
I’ve worked in the rv industry for over 30 years, 3 different manufactures(Coachmen, Jayco, KZ, and back at Jayco. They are all built the same, they are slapped together and the higher the demand, the cheaper the unit is made. They are not designed to last and are junk
I call this BS!
I believe you the coverings for the slid out floor boards exterior are designed to get wet there by ruining your camper water will run down your slide out wall then wick your bottom floorboards causing mold ruining the carpet ruining your floor. The internal water filter will fail flooding your campy ruining your floor i plumbed it out to the exterior
Keeping it real, so you want to buy a camper ???
The best information I've received about the brands so far in my search for a full time RV. Thank you. We were looking at a KZ and a Coachmen so this is priceless info. Thanks again!
It true. I did a few years in rvs too. They would fret over saving $200 and losing some weight of the unit. We built large 5th wheels so weight mattered but literally a couple hundred dollars give me a break just lose a extra VP or two and there’s your money.
If RVs aren't junk, why do we only get a 1 year warranty? Why is it that mfrs like Thor, Cardinal, Forest River, and Grand Design have reputations for poor quality build, poor quality control, poor customer service, and poor tech support? Why do most mfrs use cheap china bombs that damage chassis components when they blow out? Why are there so many lemon law claims and litigation between dealers, customers and mfrs? Why are there so many structural, mechanical, and electrical problems right off of the line? Why are there 30+ year old RVs still on the road going strong but RVs built today last no longer than the warranty period? Why do mfrs use the cheapest materials available and then charge a premium price? Why is it that the only difference between RVs are the features you opt for? Why, after towing a short distance, do seams become misaligned and water leaks start because of bad seals and materials? Why have awning and slideout fails caused so many accidents? Why do I have to pay more money for items that should have come with the rv for the price I paid? You should be asking the rv mfrs why they make junk, not us. We would like to know why as well. I doubt you will get a straight answer though.
Yep
This guy gets it.
We have a winner.. Exactly... Question the manufacturers on their building practices.. Would love to have a consumer based show with a backbone to have honest conversations with manufacturers about the numerous known problem in the entire industry... The automotive industry has improved substantially over the years.. RV's have gottten worse.. There are enough people to support a program or channel that tackle these issues ... A serious honest show on the behalf of consumers...
Exactly! When we were looking for used RV's we finally found a salesman that had been in the industry for 20+ years. We asked him about models he thought to be the most reliable and repair free. He mentioned 4 different Mfg's and we ended up buying one of them a 2011 Carriage Cameo (still being made now but not the same company or work force so buyer beware). We have lived in it full time for 6 months out of the year, for the past 5 years and have yet to experience any major problems or repairs due to Mfg. defects or quality. The only items we have replaced have been "wear" items: tires and brakes but that should be expected in a unit that is now 9 years old.
We recently looked at some new models, yah know if our lottery tickets ever pay off, and for the most part we didn't really like what we saw. Probably purchase a new truck instead, they at least have a 3-5 year warranty.
@@PRSCalifornia RV show USA was doing that Question the manufacturers on their building practices
You lost me when I realized by your questions you had never really examined how they are built, spent any time maintaining and repairing one or seen one after a blown tire comes thru the living room floor.
I was a professional rv technician for nearly 3 years and worked on nearly every brand and thousands of units. I'm not biased, they're all thrown together pieces of crap that cost way way too much money! The reason people call the units junk is because every sing brand new rv has a laundry list of problems from the factory, some of which are major safety issues. They are supposed to be found and corrected during a p.d.i. at the selling dealership however there are many, many things that cannot be caught during the inspection process and anyone who has purchased a brand new rv has experienced the headache of warranty service. That said many manufacturers deny perfectly legitimate claims for vague, rediculous reasons and naturally this pisses off customers who just paid tens if not hundreds of thousands for what is supposed to be a brand new rv that should theoretically be problem free and ready to go! With that in mind I'm sorry to burst anyone's ego here( not😁) but they all have problems from 20k to 100k. If you really want to improve quality and materials go custom! There are manufacturers that build custom units and many individual highly skilled techs that do this because they were tired of the production garbage they worked on and take pride in their work. I am one of these techs! In example of above build quality statement, I have hooked water up in a bran new $50k unit and it flooded due to the manufacturer failing to make plumbing connections that were hidden behind fixed panels. After that the area has to be taken apart to fix the factories screw up for which the technician doing the work is often cheated out of much of the time he works to fix the problem because the manufacturer claims that the issue is able to be fixed in a given amount of time that they also set which they claim is industry standard but that's a lie. You can imagine how that affects the technician's motivation to do a quality job vs a quick job making the repair. There is no way to standardize the amount of time fixing every issue that an rv may have. ie. I have discovered electrical shorts and hot or live wires left disconnected that were burried in walls. This is all due to pushing production at the factories and having little to no quality control nor care about the unit or customer once it leaves their factory. Look into lawsuits against rv manufacturers/dealerships. Most of those against dealerships are likely due in great part to the terrible factory quality. You asked, there it is! Hope that helps many.
Professional RV Tech / shop owner here. I agree with everything you said!
What's your opinion on a Keystone premier 34bpr 2015?
you mentioned other manufacturers that take pride in there work. Who would that be? That way the people wanting to buy , or new to RVs would know who to buy from.
@@timmantle9692 If you're in the market for a class c motorhome, buy a used Lazy Daze. They are quality units.
My Casita was not sold at a dealer, it is not RVIA certified (expensive meaningless sticker, that says its good) It's my opinion that overall quality is bad in most manufacturers. Every single new RV owner I know have had problems. I needed to go through my RV, test, check, repair. It was 10 months old when I bought it highly discounted. Functions well, reliable, because I fix it, repair it.
cheapest materials and quality for the largest profit
Yeah it's freaking weird this dude is 'trying to figure it out' lol.
Ply material separation fiberglass separation from lion. Trim interiors falling off end wall rotted out 2 years old
Wind blows threw slideouts
@@NETBotic j
@@NETBotic agree, for every thing he talked about he basically made an excuse for.
It’s the American way.
Looking at the comments, it seems reasonable to expect:
* Sound Engineering
* Best Manuf. Practices
* Meaningful Lemon Laws
* Self-Regulated Industry
* Infusion of Ethics in Business
* World-Class Customer Service
🤣
You have that in expensive units. No, 100k is not expensive. Go to custom shops and high end shops like Prevost or New Horizons and maybe even Luxe and you get exactly that. But you pay for it. Like 300k+ for a trailer and 500k+ for a motorcoach. If you're buying cheap, don't think you're getting the best. Pretty simple ;)
RVIA recreational vehicle industry association, a meaningless sticker that cost the manufacturers several hundred $$ per unit, but gaurenteed nothing. I have bought RVs without the RVIA Sticker, they were better built. They put thst value into the RV.
@@Frindleeguy Or buy a high quality unit used.
@@jimhill6586 RVIA means nothing.
Yea I need one that doesn’t leak and rot within a year after purchasing.
Buy a fiberglass shell one peice top RV. That includes Casita, bigfoot, Escape. Some class A have this feature $$$. My Casita is 8 years old, never leaked, fiberglass doesn't rot. None are cheap new
Buy a boxed in utility trailer n build your own home with it
Austin Butler- What do you mean? Why cry? I thought Airstream was preferred? Please explain.
@@minigirl6379 I just think he means cry when he pays a lot of money... I could be wrong...
Go with Fiberglass like Escape Trailer
There are a ton of rv’s that delaminate. They are all over the place. Roof leaks come up fast these days. You would think they would come up with a solution for that. Maybe a one piece fiberglass roof. Quality control on chalking.
Support under the showers are ridiculous. Window shade quality. Sloppy staple work. Horrible radios and televisions. Weak dinettes. Dinette cushion support is cheap. Key lock quality. Tires sucked for years. China bombs were criminal.
Turnaround time at the dealership.
Seems like any place we go to get work done they treat you like you are an ass. Refrigerators are junk.
Dealers not telling the truth about towing capacity. They should have better tank readers by now.
That being said we have noticed better floor plans and colors.
I think the younger generation finally got that across to the manufacturers.
I’m just glad that they don’t make airplanes,
...or voting machines.
Can’t be any worse than dominion
The 737 max crasher-suicide-airplane, has ECAS flight software designed by an intern, untested with no pilot training. It now has an "off" switch, took them a year to figure that out after 2 total fatal crashes. My favorite headline, planes engineered by clowns, managed by monkeys. They're flying again, for now......
That’s great Jim, thanks made me laugh
@@KB-ke3fi What does that have to do with voting machines? The best man won, but trump is trying to steal it!
Particle board and stickers don't hold up to any moisture at all. These things deteriorate in storage.
I will tell you for a fact. When production goes up. Quality goes down. So, when there is a jump in sales, as we've seen this season, manufacturers try and crank out more units to keep up with demands. When the production floor runs into a problem on a unit, they will do what ever it takes to keep the lines moving. When a worker is being pressured by their team lead, who is being pressured by their supervisor, who is being pressured by their plant manager, who is being pressured by their district manager..... things that normally get fixed properly, get fixed improperly. Just to keep the numbers moving. Especially at the end of the month.
Everyone working under pressure to make more and more profit every quarter is the problem with RV manufacturing, tire shops, car and rv dealerships, manufacturing in general, research and development.......
A case of "NEVER enough time to do it right in the first place but ALWAYS time to fix it when it breaks."
Absolute true! I do think this problem has been ongoing, even before the "pandemic". My 2018 is full of quality problems. Mostly from pure lack of quality control.
@@garyreed2206 right!? Except... we’ve been waiting 3 months for our svc appt and now told it will sit there another month before it’s looked at... 4 mos for functional defect that prohibits usage is highly unreasonable.
Very well put. One of the main problems from where I sit is perception and expectation.
We bought a new trailer because we knew our first use was going to be the entire summer. We had done A LOT of research, been on blogs and forums related to RV'ing, watched hours of RUclips videos from every brand, model and style available before narrowing down and making our choice. However we ended up having just about every problem with our trailer on that 10 week trip that's possible in a trailer. Water leaks, awnings coming off the trailer, first time we used the heater the trailer filled with white smoke, brakes caught fire, 95% of the time we tried to "auto level" we ended up having to manual level, propane leaks, windows coming out of their tracks, numerous screws coming loose, blah, blah. Most of our issues were due to the fact that this unit wasn't prepped correctly by the manufacturer or the dealer. It didn't even have a deep cycle rv battery, it was delivered with a regular auto battery. The service department of the dealership we purchased from was terrible....check that, absolutely useless to deal with. Rude and disrespectful to say the least. Their service center was massively understaffed when compared to the sales center. They had thousands of rv's and dozens of sales staff running around, but 3 service bays and 4 maybe 5 guys servicing units. When you have 12-15 delivery prep bays and 3-4 service bays there's a problem. They told me the wait for repairs UNDER WARRANTY would be 4 months. At that point the trailer was un-useable. We called the manufacturer and asked to bring the trailer back to the factory for warranty repairs. They went one better and sent a man to pick up our trailer and haul it back to the factory. There they fixed every single one of the items on our 17 item punch list and replaced several other very costly items that we hadn't even asked to be fixed or replaced. The rear bumper and the front steps that I slightly damaged during normal usage.
We learned A LOT in those first 10 weeks. The auto leveling problems we were having were because although there was enough voltage, there was not enough amperage to properly run the system. We kept getting errors. The heater filled the trailer with white smoke because they are shipped with grease on the fire box to keep it from rusting, a proper pre delivery inspection would include running the heater till this grease burns off at the dealership and not running the customer out of the trailer half naked on a cold dark rainy Mt. Rushmore night.... Propane leaks are just inexcusable, leaking propane is an explosion waiting to happen. The pressure regulator was not even properly adjusted from the factory or the dealership and several components were not properly sealed both pipe dope or properly tightened. Absolutely no excuse for this leaving a factory like this. We were delayed 11 days after the right rear drum brake caught fire, waiting on the factory to ship the new axle to the service center in Wyoming. Then, when the new axle arrived from Indiana, the service center replaced the front axle rather than the rear axle which had been on fire.... We were absolutely incensed at this point and questioned everything including our own sanity. I literally wanted to let the trailer slide off a cliff at this point. I did not even want to continue this once in a lifetime trip we had been planning for and saving for....for years.
So as I said in the beginning. Perception and expectation is paramount in buying any RV from pop up camper to the multi million dollar diesel pusher coaches. Choosing the right dealership is very important. Saving $3,000 on the purchase price then having ZERO after sale service and incredible rude service people is WAY worse than paying $3,000 more and having a good and reasonable service experience. PAY ATTENTION ***You will have maintenance and trouble shooting issues from day one of ownership regardless of buying new or used.*** And you will have to wait on the dealer or the factory to fit you into a long line of customers that are also waiting on service. This is unavoidable, either deal with it calmly or prepare to be angry and feel slighted pretty much for as long as you own the unit. If you're not handy with a tool, RV'ing is NOT for you. Having the right truck that is more than capable of handling the weight and size of your chosen trailer cannot be stressed enough. If your trailer is overloading your truck and you're having problems with both truck and trailer, that is neither the trucks or the trailer manufacturers fault. It's YOUR fault.
At the end of the day, you bring you on vacation with you. If you're stupid or impatient or angry or all of the above, you will not enjoy camping.
However if you are reasonable and you love the out doors and have a handy hand, a reasonable amount of patience and the ability to go with the flow. You will have the absolute time of your life exploring and experiencing all that this massive and beautiful country has to offer. America is absolutely stunning. You can literally explore just the USA alone for your entire life and cannot possible see it all.
Choose wisely.
Very well written. You have nailed Rving as a whole. It's frustrating, if you let it be that way! This video and others tell their stories. There's a hundred different scenarios. There are hundreds of videos with great ideas. Rving is not for everyone choose wisely is correct!
Did I miss the brand of your coach in this??? What brand please...
This response should be pinned to the top!!! You and I share the same ideas and experiences.
I also spent a significant amount of money on my truck to tow my RV. It also bounces and flexes going down the road. Would it be ok to have trim pieces falling off? A fuel leak? Water intrusion? Seating that the pleather peels off within a year? Significant fitment problems? We hold RV manufacturers to a lower standard because why??? Because buyers often have no where else to turn for a quality RV. The manufacturers know this and as long as they can get away with it, they will choose to maximize profits over reliability and quality. They sell some of these well into the upper ranges of 5 figures and some even into 6 figures. There are no emission standards to meet (on 5th wheels and Travel trailers), no complex mechanical components like engines or transmissions. There are no crash tests or insurance standard test requirements to meet. They are pretty much mass-produced walls and cabinetry with a few moving components like slides. They install cheapest furniture they can put in there. Profit margins are through the roof. There is room for considerable quality improvements with little to no effect on the out the door price.
and sketchy DC electronics, sketchy ammonia frigs that will make you sick, sketch sketch sketch
@@sulphuric99 Oh! The fridges use ammonia to cool?
@@MisterMikeTexas yes. That’s the only way we’ve figured out to be able to efficiently cool something below freezing using a heat source and not electricity.
The newer 12v fridges with Danfoss compressors are going to be the new standard. Efficient, effective, bigger capacity in a similar footprint, and you don’t have to worry about keeping your fridge level to function properly.
I do understand how they are built and that is exactly why I think they are junk. I've grown up around aviation, off road and commercial transportation. The only units I've seen that hold up are older travel trailers using stressed aluminum body, units built on busses, units based on medium duty truck chassis and Lazy Daze. Nothing with a wood frame has impressed me really. I'm honestly looking for an early 70s travco or executive Class A. I'd be money ahead updating a soundly built unit that was built with the ability to easily serviced and can be updated with modern commercial grade running gear. A person could spend hundreds of thousands on an RV or camper and still deal with bad engineering, cheap material quality and no customer support. We camp in the desert and have to go down rough roads. Not many units have instilled confidence in their quality. The companies that do market off road capable units have this obsession with festooning their units with a bunch of unneeded "tactical" or Survivalist gear that won't ever get used and sky rockets the price.
That's why I currently own a Carriage "Carry-Lite" all aluminum frame. it's had MANY miles put on it. Still like new.
Exactly correct!!!
I bought a 2020 Heartland Bighorn 39MB in May. Let me tell you the issues we’ve had.
1) Inverter would not power the fridge when hooked to battery or my truck. The fix: found the inverter was wired to a bedroom outlet and not the fridge.
2) The landing gear would not retract on departure from our first trip. The fix: found all wires on hydraulic manifold falling out of the wiring lugs that were not crimped properly.
3) Bedroom lights would not come on and was popping fuses. The fix: found the lights wired to the satellite and vise versa.
4) Gray tank #2 and black tank indicators wired backwards. The fix: crossed the wires between the indicators to read proper tanks.
5) Refrigerator stopped cooling. The fix: who knows. It’s back at the dealer.
6) Wiper seals falling off. The fix: who knows. It’s at the dealer.
7) Cheap Trailer King tire blowout at 2200 miles. The fix: none. Cheap tire being replaced by Heartland with the same cheap tire.
8) Multiple trim pieces falling off. The fix: Liquid nails.
9) Bathroom fam fell out of the ceiling. The fix: At the dealer for repair.
10) Blinds falling off the mounting fixture. The fix: Who knows. At the dealer now.
11) Kitchen cabinet doors falling off. The fix: used screws longer than a snails penis to secure them.
All of this in three trips and less than 3000 miles. I would not recommend Heartland to anyone. They joked with me saying my rig must have been built on a Friday. Here’s a tip... do not joke with a man about the quality of your product that just spent $60,000 on your product. It’s not funny.
Stay away from Heartland.
underrated comment. Im in the process of wanting to buy a travel trailer and the ones I want for my family is 40k. Nope, im not paying for something I feel im getting ripped off. Not only that things were falling off just looking at them at the dealer. Ill pass
It's about "I just spent 60-100K on something and this that or the other thing broke, I'm pissed!"... totally understandable. It's not like these are low-cost disposable items!
They look like low cost disposable items going down the road.
Fact is they are disposable items !
@@werewolf5674 I’m saying most of these 5th wheels fall into the 60-100K price range. So somebody spending that kind of money has every reason to expect a reasonable level of quality.. we aren’t talking about a $50 item here... they shouldn’t be considered disposable when they cost 2-3x what a typical car costs that you expect to keep for at least 5-10 years...
@@mikekopack6441 Exactly. I bought a nearly 6 figure RV and it was total trash. A lot of the issues were fundamental engineering and design related, not even due to shoddy construction.
@@sulphuric99 That does suck. Can some of this be mitigated by due dilligence though? Like finding owners of those units and asking what the major flaws are and avoiding them if they haven’t been addressed? If it’s an actual engineering flaw then the problem should be fairly common, like “The slide design causes this issue!”… then others should be experiencing it too.
I know no design is perfect, but some problems are worse than others. Trim popping off is not the end of the world. A slide popping open in transit would be a pretty big problem. Is such due dilligence even possible with design changes every production year? Genuinely curious from a “Want to buy a trailer but don’t own one yet” perspective.
The things about my Jayco I question the most are engineering related. They chose to run the wiring for two of our slides through the wheel well an inch above the tire. I discovered this after the slide didn't want to close because the wiring was torn up by the tire. I looked and it could have easily been run on the inside and avoided the wheel well area completely. When I spoke to the repair manager he agreed it was a bad design but they still do it that same way in newer models. Just about every day you see a post from someone having problems with their Atwood/Dometic furnace because of a sail switch problem. Yet Jayco still installs the same furnace in all of their RV's. I've worked for manufacturers and if you are a large customer you can push back to the supplier and demand they correct a known issue. This probably would cost less than $5 to fix with a different sail switch. I also had crossbeams on my frame break loose and fall off as I've seen with other people posting in forums. The welder that repaired them for me said they should have used double the thickness of metal and the welding was poorly done. It's basic things like this that can easily be improved with almost no additional cost that are frustrating for owners.
Still having problems with my Pinnacle 2019 50 50th Anniversary can't tell what color paint it is every for every 50 years or what and my pin box has been trying to figure it out with a dealer that's why the dealer so important
@@matthewstrzelecki4280 What?🤨🤔
We have a 2015 Jayco C, 12,000 and my husband and the wiring is not like you described it. We don't have the same wiring as you described, as the wiring through the wheel well. We did have a problem with a sail switch problem, that my husband fixed. These are good things to ask, when buying a new RV. I think people who are buying a new RV, need to do a lot of research.
Yep, sail switch for me as well. On a two year old Bigfoot. No fun camping in the winter when that goes out in the middle of the night. A new one is on order, but will it be any better?
@@freetoroam7769 I hope it works out for you. True. It's like camping when it's 100 degrees and the airconditioner goes.
I spent years researching before I bought mine. I was between Lance and Airstream. I went with Lance for half the price. I may get an Airstream next. In my humble opinion, Lance's manufacturing procedures and materials are some of the best in the market. They are also very expensive for the size. They are small in general too so they are not for everyone. For a "minimalist" (not really but for RVing yes) couple with some money to spend, who wants to travel the country in all 4 seasons, the Lance is a good choice. I camped in it over the Christmas holiday for two weeks in snow and temps down in the teens. She did great!
My wife and I are nearing retirement. We’ve been talking for 20 years of our dream to own a fifth wheel and living all across the country, not visiting but living, getting to know the places and the people. As we get closer and doing the research, looking at reviews, forums, and groups; I’ve come to the conclusion that most American RV manufacturers are making junk. You ask do I want quality and expense over availability and affordability.....YES! A hundred times yes! I’d rather have a used well made RV than a new RV that is only made to look good long enough to drive off the lot. Why would I want to pay for tires that every one agrees will have to be immediately replaced? I want to experience the country, not spend my first year of retirement at the factory doing warranty work. Why is all the quality and innovation coming from Canadian, Australian, South African and European manufacturers? I’ll say this, what US manufacturers are producing has led me to: 1. Never buy new. 2. Learn to live with a smaller, quality RV. 3. Try to buy from a Canadian manufacturers, who seem to put a premium on build quality. I’d rather buy American and I hope and pray American RV’s manufacturers will step up soon.
Airsteam makes RV that last decades.. they can be bought used, becuase they last a long long time.. no wood other than some cabinet doors in them.. aluminum will last a long time.
Yes I would pay more for an rv that doesn't fall apart in the long run you end up paying more anyway for repairs ..let them take more time for better quality.
AMC and Airstream.
Our Airstream has been on the road since 1988 and still going strong!! However, she was $33,000 new and it would cost me $130,000+ to replace her. Only immediate item that had to replaced was the refrigerator in 2007. Otherwise, we have upgraded here/there at our leisure. Certainly not as roomy as modern rigs, but she is solid!!
The only thing I don't like about camping is CAMPING WORLD. They're Junk
I called camping world when I lived in virginia. Said I need a state inspection and tires installed. I told the person on the phone I had the tires just needed them installed. He couldn't figure out what I was talking about. I had to say tires you know black rubber things that look like a donut and go around on the road. He was like oh yeah take it somewhere else and hung up on me.
They are crooks!
I asked to schedule an appointment for inspection, and they told me that’s not the way it works in the RV world.
I call it Crappy World.
And the counter clerk's are like the Stepford wives... almost robots who are only there for a paycheck.
I really appreciated our dealer when we purchased our Montana this year. It was our first 5th wheel, actually our first RV. He said, "look, these things are built really well, but it is an RV... it is basically a house that will go through a minor earthquake everytime you move it. Buy a nice cordless brad nailer and just get used to checking everything when you get to your location." We have found that he was right. All the really important thing. The frame, the suspension, electrical and mechanical features have been excellent. But for the first few trips, everytime we got to a new location, some trim piece fell off. Doesn't make it junk, just an RV.
A lot of it is production quality and quality control. If those two aspects are weak then when it comes to service the owner experience is skewed and many times spoiled for good.
I'm just shy of 50yrs old and grew up in my family's 3 different campgrounds across Florida. We have campgrounds ranging from 12 lots to well over 100 lots. Have over 35years experience with our own rental units, fixing others units, and in&out of 100s of other people's units. I understand the manufactures position, but my opinion is MOST brands do not focus on build quality that lasts. They cut so many corners and lack consistency each unit. Nobody with a good financial mindset wants to drop money on a unit that starts with a overly inflated price, depreciates it's value sooo quickly, within shorter amount of time than other "assets" , while simultaneously falling apart in a shorter amount of time too. Not ALL but MOST are not worth the overall loss/depreciation. On a positive note: I am liking what Grand Design has been making and their approach the past few years. They seem to have a good 'backwards' approach focusing on customers and build quality first and earned some good awards in doing it.
@@hummer4u2nv11 Grand Design is the WORST. We had 10x more problems than with our Forest River product and the worst customer service I've ever dealt with with any company. Our neighbor has one and the slide was ripping up the flooring. They had to jump through hoops to get it repaired. I called them about having to wait to have a WARRANTY problem looked at because the dealership had to call them first to work on it which is not acceptable. I spoke to some arrogant twit at the headquarters. Should have stayed with Forest River but heard that Grand Design built a good rig and had good customer service. We had some issues with the Forest River rv and they said just to bring it where ever we wanted, no problem.
@@jameshickman3939 sorry to hear of your experience. That has not been mine and only 1 guy I know of personally had a 'issue' but later found not as big as he 1st thought. He informed that he was surprised about being handled quickly and helpful. (Geez this sounds like I'm connected or work with them, but I'm not in any way). Just sharing what I know. Anyways i just wanted to reply back and also I agree about some of the Forest River units (I am very-very picky with most any unit). I never-never buy on impulse. I typically spend weeks researching and 're-researching my research again", and walk thru many times checking the chassis, axles, roof, walls, etc...thoroughly before actually choosing any unit). OCD at it finest. If the seller moves on and I 'miss a deal' then I just wait bcs there IS ALWAYS another deal. My advise is 'fall in love with the value not the unit'.
God forbid you slow down the assembly line you answered your own question! Quality not speed
👍
I spend time in junkyards looking for parts for my antique vehicles. I see RV'S in there all the time. The problem I've seen is the structural wood in the walls, roofs and floors. Water from road spray and rain plus flexing causing leaks of the unit which quickly rots the wood. The more wood in structure the faster they rot into junk and fall apart. There is good reason wood was fazed out in cars in the late 30's.
...and all the manufactures have to do is used pressure treated wood that doesn't rot! The price difference may only be 10% higher cost for the wood. I would gladly pay the price difference for pressure treated wood than have an RV, camper, or trailer start a slow rot after the first rain.
@@douglasrodrigues9329 pressure treated wood rots plenty lol
Excellent point and great observation.
@@douglasrodrigues9329 It's very toxic.
Great point.. wood as a structural component of a modern RV is like 'MEDIEVAL TIMES' horse driven chariots.. it is simply COMMICAL.
How about the fact that A $100k camper is worth $5k In 15 years. That's if it isn't already in the landfill.
if you full time in it that is $500 month rent plus a campsite if you live that way. Much harder to justify if you are weekend warrior... but heh, it's your money, spend in whatever way makes you happy.
Name one thing that rolls down the road that does better? All vehicles depreciate. Plus the internal styling is a big deal. An old camper with shag carpeting doesn’t sell because of the dated interior. People want a pleasant experience while on vacation.
I have a funfinder that is now 9 years old. I paid $14K for it new. I was offered $6K for it the other day. I'm not selling. Why ? Because it's still just fine, is nowhere near ready for the landfill. If you are taking a new trailer and sending it to the landfill in 15 years, congrats, you don't know how to maintain a trailer.
@@mattcaser6581 buyers remorse , and hideing it .
That is easy, DON"T buy a "new" one! Wait 5 years then get that $100k RV for $20K.
It is about the customer service and the built quality
I was told by the dealer that the companies do 75% of the work the dealership does the other 25 so yes dealer dealer service is the most important
@@matthewstrzelecki4280 couldn't agree more!
A local indpendent RV repair guy told me that local dealers were his best source of customers. Their high prices and don't really care attitudes make customers look for alternatives after a dealer took their money without resolving the problem they brought their unit to the dealer for to fix.
This is an absolutely patronizing, BS VIDEO from J.D. . To act naive and ask about cosmetic, layout, or other subjective aspects of RV construction is your attempt to say people are being unreasonable and simple minded. Your attempt to gloss over the lack of real engineered design and high quality manufacturing in the RV industry means you are converting this channel from a consumer advocate to an industry promotion.
And the slide design on most RV is a joke, cable or rack in-pinion.
That being said I truly respect your knowledge and value your channel,
maybe I’m wrong and miss interpreted the underling motivation for this video, surprising enough I believe the industry is delivery Value and trying to deliver what customers want, however please don’t treat us like idiots, RV’s don’t depreciate to basically worthless for no reason.
Ok, so what is one big difference between Jayco and Luxe in terms of manufacture and not just the quality of flooring and cabinetry materials?
Brent, You are absolutely correct. This may be the worst video on RUclips, total wrong. I have worked with the manufactures directly and their assembly and engineering is horrible. Everything from dangerous installation techniques of wiring to extremely poor assembly techniques. My Thor and Foresters had significant problems with the Thor being the worst. Parts falling off, leaking showers and many other problems. The dealers are overwhelmed by problems as they are the final quality control . It is a terrible industry. Just read the forums and it will give you a clue of the problems and how so many people are disappointed in these vehicles.
@@clintprice2123 can I blame autocorrect?
Agreed.
Amen Brother!
I'm an old guy. During my life time I've owned a Class A, a tent trailer, two Class C's, and a Class B. The van Class B was the highest quality product. The rest were what I call Cracker Boxes not worth the money. How much more money would it cost to use treated wood that won't rot once wet? How much more money to have a roof design that won't leak? With the exception of my little Class B, all of the rest were designed for looks, not for longivity.
When children of the devil of evil build things n sale them, you got all kinds of cursed voodoo things that happen in babylon that messes things up n are not done better n wiser at times n sometimes are real dangerous to use
Instead of a bunch of demon devil cursed hell hole human being children of evil doing it n some are major drug addicts n are high doing it n make more mistakes cause they are high n some of them were more wise n better at doing things but they destroyed their body n brain to much n they cant work as good
Let some really blessed heavenly holy spirit filled human beings who have lots of working angels n who been really born again n are real fulltime servants of Jesus n are real wise n real good n really experienced do it n it will go way better n many people will be way happier n have way safer n way better rv n trailer homes that will last n work real good.
I agree I have owned one rv and several cdl trucks. 30 foot box truck for 15 years the box never leaked it was a work truck
Advanced RV. And get out the wallet
Excellent points!
Got a 93 Holiday rambler imperial motorhome 300,000 mi on it nothing falls apart on this thing
A couple of years ago I was watching a factory build video of a Raptor 5th wheel. As the 2 guys were putting in the fiberglass roof insulation one of them cut it about 6in short. He then proceeded to separate the insulation and pull part of it to fill in the shorted area. This was a video put out by the manufacturer. Of course, they’re talking the entire video about what a great product they make.
What's just as bad is dealers that half-ass repair work
They don't realize this is all some have.
I once called Keystone for a wiring diagram for a Montana. I was told they don't have them because changes are made on the production floor. That means that the monkeys putting them together make it up as they go along. Wire management is non existent. So when you pull the main electrical panel to find the loosely fitted spade connector that came off, you usually cause more damage by disturbing the mess.
I removed the belly covering on my current Solitude to find that the wast tanks were not installed properly. They were not able to drain and because of the mis positioning, the supports were bent and had to be repaired. This problem was caused during assembly at the factory.
While doing the first suspension maintenance on the same Solitude I found that the wet bolts were installed dry.... not a single trance of grease. Also, not all of the bolts were wet bolts. The result was the suspension was completely worn out on a two year old unit and had to be replaced.
I too had the China bomb experience. That one damaged a twelve foot piece of skirting.
In summary, I spend more time fixing the factory mistakes than maintaining or improving the unit. I keep hearing that "these units live a hard live going down the road." Maybe they should build them to survive that environment.
To put it in perspective, compare these RV's to the trucks that pull them. The fifth wheel costs more than the truck, it might have half the parts count and it lasts half the life of the truck. The technology and build quality in the truck is far superior for less money.
These problems are industry wide.
Also it's about buliding mindset. As you mentioned, the methods they used to build the RVs are like what they used in the houses. But a house don't travel hundreds of miles on a bumpy road like an RV does. So the RV builder would need a mindset and manufacturing tooling more like a vehicle manufacturer not a house builder.
@@jobe1911 Has nothing to do with lightweight versus heavier materials. It has to do with use of appropriate material within a design specifically made for RV usage conditions. It's like saying body on frame construction is better than unibody / monocoque construction because body on frame is heavier - therefore better in all situations and that's not true. Unfortunately, often lightweight materials are more expensive, design is more complicated, and fabrication is more costly in making an RV with the same robustness as heavier RVs. The easiest way to design something is when weight is not one of the limiting factors.
I totally agree, your home doesn't go down the highway over the humps and bumps, RVs should be built tougher so they don't fall apart down the road, it's the same with anything you buy these days, comes down to poor quality, make it as fast as you can and sell it for as much as you can.
I'm a custom home builder and am currently building my own from an enclosed cargo trailer, not as fancy but built to last
I've often wondered why more people don't do exactly this. Use closed cell foam insulation to seal the thing and make it comfortable, then build out the inside taking care to minimize weight. It seems so sensible.
@@farmalmta Profits, profits, profits! I know there is a fourth reason, but i forgot it.
@@farmalmta : Not everyone works in the construction industry and has the skills and tools to build their own RV. And they shouldn't have to. That's what _manufacturers_ are supposed to do.
yes with a plywood floor
I know a guy that did this not to pretty but it’s reliable
Cheap materials! They all eventually leak, rot, and fall apart. High quality is Marathon, Provost etc.
Trust me Prevost are no better, I had one from Oregon just of the I5 (mention no names) The chassis is ok the insides are poor
@@myozone That's because Prevost (and others)only builds the chassis. The RV maker supplies everything else, including the body.
My advice, rent an RV from another owner through a listing. Much cheaper than Cruise America, etc.
Get online, talk to fulltimers, ask questions. RVers love to talk about their mistakes. Don't buy new, don't buy until your confident. Do your homework. RV parks are expensive. Learn the real costs first!
Know that new RV's will lose half their value within 3-4 years. Just like a boat. They also require maintenance, cleaning and storage, just like a boat. Sun fade, snow, rodents damage, freezing temps will damage them, and insurance premiums are costly.
Just like a boat!
@@crankychris2 Indeed, We first bought a truck and trailer (both new) used them for 12 months then upgraded to the motorhome and Jeep (again both bought new) traveled around most of the US and Canada for 3 years. Anything on wheels is never a wise investment or come to that boats.I'm now looking towards a fully electric (propulsion) van (RV) here in the UK/Europe as the UK for one, is banning all new petrol and diesel engines in 2030.
@@myozone There are a number of lightweight trailers, the EV truck is the tricky part.
@John Smith Of course, I didn't want to mention the manufacturer
When you ask if I would be willing to pay 10-20 percent more for screws vs staples ( better quality)....I assume you are referring to maintaining the profit margin for the manufacturi covering the additional build cost.
How about asking the manufacturer if they are willing to spend the same 10-20 percent, leaving the retail price of the unit the same, and recovering that extra cost on the backend with less warranty claims and repeat buyers??
Couldn't agree more.
10-20% is a huge figure for staples to screws. His entire dissertation clearly positions him in the lap of the manufacturer's.
As a career flooring installer we use teflon coated staples for plywood or luan underlay. The teflon melts through friction when shot & glues itself when cooling. Results in much more holding power & would significantly decrease loosening of mouldings from flex. The cost? Approximately 2-3 dollars more than non glued staples per box of 5000. Negligible.
@@mikebertinshurtow Yeah and just wait untill there is a hot summer day and those fancy teflon staples will remelt and everything pops loose. Not even worth the time or the money. Pop rivets would be better than staples. Screws are always best.
@@tmeadowsdegil2014 $$$$$$$$$$!
Walk in any new fifth wheel or trailer. In the hot sun. The smell will knock you out ..the chemicals used. Partical board !!!!!
thats it
Formaldehyde.
Just look at the resale prices. That tells you all you need to know.
Billy Boy•
Comment of the day 🍾 🍾 🍾
RVs are the only ones that have this problem?
Look at MSRP vs what you actually pay for it. That's a clue as well. When I can routinely take 35% off MSRP and that's what I expect to pay for the unit...
I'm not familiar, are the resale prices low or high?
@@mariebernier3076 -- Take a wild guess....
Cheap tires, cheap frames are dangerous. Cheap roofs destroy your trailer. Cheap cabinets fall apart.
We love our Whitehawk 28DSBH though
My 2020 forest river Salem I bought in Feb 2021. One tire blew on my sec trip. Was told load range D tires were too small for my trailer loaded at manufacturers specs. Then another blowout due to a cracked rim causing the whole trailer to twist causing the front roof to separate from the siding. Insurance said it wasn't possible, manufacturer said it was due to lack of maintenance. It was 6 months old at that time. I put load range E tires only for two more rims to crack and leak air. The bottom panels have flown off into traffic due to I don't know. Almost every external panel has separated from the molding. Kitchen sink separated from the counter top, almost every cabinet door and drawer has had the screws loosing up causing doors to hang off and screw holes to strip. It's been one thing after the next. This is the forth one I've owned in 15 years. I sound have kept my cheap one from the 80's
I was a service writer for RVs. Also, I managed a fleet of RV rentals.
My reasoning for calling RV’s junk is from that experience. Not all RV’s are created equal. But here are some examples. The blinds. They break so easy. All the attachments pop out of the wall so easily and it’s difficult to find solid attachment points for the brackets that keep the blinds from moving back and forth when traveling.
The dining tables. When you place a dining table in the floor mounts, it’s not uncommon for someone to push or pull on the table to adjust themselves and the crap aluminum mount crack and break.
The dinning room benches are often 1x2 material. It’s breaks incredibly easy. If you lean back with a little too much force or sit down with too much gusto things start breaking and becoming loose and eventually needing a full repair.
Plastic latched on the outside are always becoming brittle and breaking. Door latch and baggage door latches.
Baggage door locks and door locks are incredibly insecure. Master keys are easy to get. A screw driver and some torque could get a latch to open.
Cupboards. The cheap wood stuff is often non repairable. If you accidentally pull a screw through, good luck repairing that. It will be very hard for that hinge to ever be re-attached properly.
The plumbing under the sinks and the actual faucets being plastic break so easy. A customer was loading TP under the sink and broke some of the plumbing under the sink by accident. If your kid grabs at and pulls on a plastic faucet, or plumbing, you will be replacing it.
The walls are often 1x2. That means if you trip and catch yourself with a wall, likely that wall is structurally done. They snap so easy.
Getting all the windows and roof to seal properly is rough. Brand new units could have a bad seal job. After water permeates the structure, often the damage is done. It’s hard to fathom why they haven’t found a good to to make a absolutely water tight machine. Rubber roof? Common man! Do better than that.
Once the dicore fails, or the rubber roof tears, issues arise. Expensive issues. Same with vents and window seals. Anything that will allow water in.
Heaven forbid you have a tire blow out. Might as well have a bomb go off in your RV. You would not know the difference.
The thermostat in most the fridges is a joke. Causes all sorts of problems for new RV’s. (The probe that clips on the fins).
That’s what I got for now. I’m sure I’ll think of something in a bit.
So, I guess I'll put my experiences in here. In 2015, my ex and I bought a brand new cyclone. The problems were, the back sliding door could be unlocked with a pinky finger if the back ramp was down, so that was a HUGE security issue being that there was electronics from the manufacturer in the garage and no lock on the door to the main living part of the trailer. Also, nobody mentioned how hot it gets in the back room, even though it's designed to be a potential second bedroom. Almost like there was no insulation. The ramps for the back garage and side deck on my model were both waterlogged within a year. The back was almost never down, the side was usually down as a play area for my daughter. Warranty did not cover either of them. Crummy/lazy sealing on the builders part? At 3k a door, I'll never get another toy hauler if any kind. The trailer had an incorporated vacuum system. It stopped having suction so I pull apart the possum belly walls to look at it. There was a 2 inch pvc water wye connecting the vacuum to the two vacuum outlets, one in the house, one in the possum belly. It was connected to the hoses using not hose clamps, but plumber/roofing tape. The hose pulled off the wye and the the plumber tape collapsed, sealing the hose. Just lazy workmanship. There's more, but I'll move on.
This year, my girlfriend and I bought a new 2020 keystone avalanche. The sliding doors were a selling point for us, but they constantly fall, the rail falls off the wall, or the door screws pull out leaving the door dangling on one roller. The trailer plug for the lead line was not properly hooked up. A hot line arced to the neutral and burned up the converter. Just had that fixed today. 900 dollars for a lazy plug wire job. The middle hydraulic jack had a line come off it, running RIGHT next to a tire, then into the frame. Tire blew, ripped the hose apart. Had to cut through the bottom plastic sheeting to take it off and get it fixed. Put two 90° elbows on the lint to run it next to the other line. If you can count on one thing, count on blowing a tie now and then. Tire blew within the first 6 months of owning the trailer. Messed up the skirting and plastic wheel well piece.
Rv manufacturers DO NOT CARE ABOUT QUALITY! They are all trash, from the fake wood, to simple design layouts like running hydraulic lines next to tires.
I did see some rvs that were built more like horse trailers and looked like a far superior quality trailer, but they overdid the inside and turned it into a 300k dollar trailer... SMH. Why can't someone offer superior quality craftsmanship with a basic model design?
I used to work at a factory that built mobile homes when I watch these guys work it reminds me of the time in the factory. These guys are paid by units they build. The more they build the more they make. They will never slow down
Two best days of owning a RV, the day you buy it and the day you sell it.
John Harris < Did you think of this yourself?
That was my stick built house and twenty years of being enslaved to the bank.
100% true: "the day you buy it" and "the day you sell it"
Well my jayco octane had the furnace go out a week after I bought it, then the fridge went out, now the black tank came unstrapped and broke. So yea jayco is crazy.
Quality. Quality. I’ve never got a RV that didn’t have issues. From cosmetics, to major failures in a few months.
Yep. Me too.
From what I have seen is that enough people have had issues with build quality and product longevity that they feel they got burnt. I admit I have reservations regarding long term ownership because of this. Who wants to drop $40k on something that will be worthless in under a decade?
Assuming it lasts a decade, that's a $330/month average for a camper that you can use with your friends and family without limitations. That's a pretty good deal.
People buy chevy’s all the time.
You would be amazed what you can get for a decade old rv if you maintain it. Factor in the quality family time you get out of it and numerous vacations and an RV is a great option. My family spends a minimum of 30 nights a year in our RV. I am not saying they are well built. In most cases they leave a lot to be desired. But they can be a worthwhile purchase as a holiday or vacation option.
@@mrosenblatt Eh how often are you calculating it being used? Realistically if you take it out 5 times a year over 10 years that is 50 outings. $40k/50 is $800 per not including maintenance.
@@mrosenblatt Assuming one could buy it outright instead of paying interest and one actually could use it constantly without it breaking, sure....
.
I wouldn't want to drop money like that on something that'll fall apart in 10 years or less... Of course, that can be avoided if one keeps more realistic expectations for the size of a quality unit that $40k can get them.
I often hear you mention the use of Westlake tires vs Goodyear brand, or an inexpensive suspension system so they can put upgraded items elsewhere. What are they upgrading inside the unit that makes sup that difference? Example most campers use the same appliances, unless your going with residential appliances where are the savings. I would rather see better suspension systems and tires that offer better stability than 1 or 2 extra drawers in the kitchen. 1000.00 in better tires or suspension really doesn’t affect the numbers on a 40000.00 unit. Love your videos thank you.
We bought a Dutchman Aspen Trail with no slides but a big master and bathroom. It had a few little issues but the dealer was a nightmare. Kept our rig on the lot waiting for a gas fitting to be replaced, claiming it had to come from the manufacturer. Months later we found out it’s a standard fitting they had in stock. The guy fixed it but it still didn’t work. We went to an independent repair company who fixed it immediately but had to pay. RV’s have lots of issues and the dealers are not focused on repairing anything after the sale. Don’t buy their extended warranty, just pay out of pocket but find an independent to fix stuff or fix it yourself. Our daughter son in law and grandkids use our trailer more than we do. During Covid it’s the best way for a family to travel. Our son in law now does all the maintenance so it’s a win-win.
I caulked the roof myself. You have to keep up on the maintenance or it will leak.
We've been doing a ton of research on RVs including going to RV shows and talking to people in the industry. The final conclusion was to pass on buying an RV and just travel by plane and staying in hotels. It seemed like a great idea but the gas cost was the straw that broke the camels back.
what was the gas cost difference that made your decision?
If I didn't hate flying, it might have been my choice as well. Airports are a pain, you know where, and the constant monotonous drone of the jets, drives me crazy within the first half hour! Oh, and apparently planes are truly one of the dirtiest places one can be, as they definitely are not a sanitary tube we all sit in.
1. It's about the build quality of RV in general. RVs are way down on quality comparing to vehicle manufacturers, and they are not necessarily cheaper. RV manufacturers need to modernize their production line with more robots and laser welding, etc.
2. Also, RVs are not as safe comparing to vehicles. I really hope NHTSA and IIHS would crash test RVs as they did on the other vehicles.
As of the producing speed and cost, a robotic production line would be more expensive in the beginning, but it will be cheaper than hand made and better quality in the long run.
3. Also, the RV industry needs better quality control. It's well know that the RV dealership is the "last step of the assembly line", which should NOT be the way they do business. In the vehicle industry, if a vehicle has the quality of the RVs, it will be called a lemon.
The moral of the story, Never invest in a depreciating asset...
Everything bought brand new with wheels on it is depreciating asset, except maybe a classic car. A new lawn tractor or a snow blower is even a depreciating asset.
Or buy it after its depreciated enough.
This doesn't classify as an asset. It is a liability but, like a car, perhaps a necessary one.
So we shouldn’t buy cars? 🤡
@@pippylongstockings8600 What do you think ? People go into debt just to buy a new one that's worth half it's value in a couple of years time.
I have a 2019 work and play by Forest River biggest piece of junk anybody could have ever purchased. From the floor to the ceiling bathroom leak water hoses have broken water tank has leaked the water heater is broken. I have owned it for 10 months and it has been in the shop eight of those months. I take it out for a trip only to return it back to the shop for repairs. This unit originally listed for $48,000. You don't know what you're talkin about!
My complaint is towards the manufacturer, forrest river. Unfortunately I am not in the position to purchase a super high end RV. I have a Salem Hemisphere hyper lyte 29BHHL. I did purchase this unit used and I do understand that that is my problem. However, I am baffled how awful these things are put together. There were water lines that were not even connected. They did not just come lose, they were almost 1 inch short to the connections. It is like they cut it short and did not want to take the time to do it correctly, so they slapped a fitting on it and called it good. That is not even the worst. Previous owner never used furnace. The furnace was installed with the outside vent pipes 3 inches to the left of the vent plate. I fired the furnace up, with my family inside and almost had a fire. Fortunately, I smelled it and stopped it. It burned a the wall under the cabinet. Forrest river response was, the unit is no longer under warranty. Really? This could have been deadly! It's not like it shifted, it was screwed to floor. That is why forrest river is JUNK!!!!
I just want a quality control department! I want manufacturers to stand behind there product. Why can't a company make a quality product? It because they want their quarter profit to be 1 billion instead of 900 million!
I'm trying to think if there's a worse financial decision you could make than buying a RV . Seriously such a rolling money pit.
This video is on point. I'm from Elkhart IN and worked for a top rv company for many years and then went to a subcontract company and seen many other brands in one shop at one time. Some brands are better then others right from the start. It all comes down to price a line that produces more is going to be cheaper than a line that builds 3 a week.
I'm just shy of 50yrs old and grew up in my family's 3 different campgrounds across Florida. We have campgrounds ranging from 12 lots to well over 100 lots. Have over 35years experience with our own rental units, fixing others units, and in&out of 100s of other people's units. I understand the manufactures position, but my opinion is MOST brands do not focus on build quality that lasts. They cut so many corners and lack consistency each unit. Nobody with a good financial mindset wants to drop money on a unit that starts with a overly inflated price, depreciates it's value sooo quickly, within shorter amount of time than other "assets" , while simultaneously falling apart in a shorter amount of time too. Not ALL but MOST are not worth the overall loss/depreciation. On a positive note: I am liking what Grand Design has been making and their approach the past few years. They seem to have a good 'backwards' approach focusing on customers and build quality first and earned some good awards in doing it.
@@hummer4u2nv11 I'm glad to hear you say that about Grand Design. I've been very impressed with their products as well and plan to invest with them. Although the Jayco seismic is very impressive as well, tough decisions!
@@alandillon6469 we looked at used seismic, a few months back...
Either the quality is garbage or the owners put it through the ringer.. but it did not look to have been built very well. Looked good on the outside.. but on the inside was a different story.. everything was broken or falling apart.. you name it from carpet, to doors, to trim, ac vents, cabinets..
It was rough.
The same argument happens here in Australia. Jayco have over 50 percent of the market here, but the general consensus seems to be that they build down to a price and not up to a standard. If you accept that then you also accept issues. We had a Jayco Caravan, sold it, moved 'up' to the Coromal bŕand. I must say, the fit, finish and overall quality feel of the latter leaves the former for dead. But of course you pay for that. Generally I have three rules that make me as the driver happy. If it tows nice and docile, if it stops when I want it to, and if the refrigerator keeps the beer cold, then all good.
I’ll tell you what made my 2014 Class A Thor Outlaw junk. The fact it leaked like Niagara Falls up front above the passenger seat whenever it rained from day one. The fact that there were lbs and kgs of sawdust hidden behind the bedroom cabinets, free to migrate all over the electronics back there. The fact that every single hinge popped right out of the interior cabinets at the most inconvenient times. The exterior storage door hardware that rusted out. The ramp door retract cables that jumped the pullys, the electrical outlet trim that popped off. The rubber trim on the stairs coming loose. The uneven hidden bed retract system making it store lopsided. Then Camping World’s outright inability to fix anything in less than 3 weeks (even under warranty), return phone calls or tend their repair desks even when you had a vacation planned months in advance so you can’t really use the thing when you have to.
Doesn't Thor own Airstream?
I just wish I could pay for the option of marine grade plywood . That alone would be a huge improvement.
You can build one out.
Fiberglass campers exist - Casita, Scamp, Oliver, and others. They are basically boat designs with wheels instead of keels.
@@eventhisidistaken funny - i made similar comment above befor even reading this
@@eventhisidistaken Anyone what to bet he will pay for and live in something as small as an Oliver?
Is there a "Consumer Reports" for RV's...maybe we need one??
Indeed! We do!
Plus lemon laws for RVs. That would solve the problem right there.
BBB
These posts are "Consumer Reports" sir!
[P.S. And you don't have to buy a subscription here]
RV Consumer Group.
Not necessary. None of them would pass any mildly rigorous testing QA or QC protocol.
Quality! Longevity!
In every piece installed!
Everything goes to shit fast.
The problems I am most concerned with relate to poor customer service
When it comes to any dwelling that is meant to be driven from place to place over many thousands of miles, I consider anything that is primarily constructed using stick framing, plywood, OSB, screws, and glue to be junk. Higher end trailers and 5th wheels that use azdel, aluminum, and dovetail joinery in their cabinetry have a much better chance of holding up to the rigors of being bounced around on the road.
Correct, which is why I purchased a Luxe 41GMD. It may be twice as much but at least I get to use it...
We are currently on our 4th travel trailer. It's a 2017 Rockwood Windjammer that we purchased new. Still looks and performs like new. The key to owning an RV is the understanding that you are going to need to take care of it just like everything else you own. If you saw our now 7 year old trailer you would swear it was new. It's our home away from home and we love everything about it. Truth be told, all four of the trailers we have owned have been great. I suspect the someday fifth one will be great too.
I have been following your channel for several months and have found it very useful. I just bought a 2021 Crosswind Cameo, 42' and live in it full time. I love it. It has 5 pull outs which gives me plenty of room. Is it perfect, no. I am 71 years old and have been around some. I never expect perfection in anything. But, it is very comfortable for just me. I have had no problems at all and a lot of that is because of your videos. Thanks.
Last weekend I walked into a travel trailer and thr door that separated the bedroom from the living area wouldn't even latch on a brand new trailer. The wall that was part of the door was so weak and thin that I would call that JUNK.
Both my bathroom doors in my brand new trailer were like that as well. Had to reposition the strike and actually cut into the frame more for it to shut right.
Perhaps RV manufacturers should start acting more like auto manufacturers in their design and construction methods.
or more like "manufactured housing" companies who make a very similar product with stricter structural requirements, but can produce a bit more bang for the buck.
Auto manufacturers don't make each car by hand, individually cutting components to shape. They have a plant dedicated to >one< car model, and only make that. Every RV manufacturer switches models every few weeks in runs. They often only have a couple working floors making two or three different runs at a time.
Ford makes about 350 MILLION cars a year. Jayco makes 50,000 RVs a year.
you cannot compare the two industries.
Car manufacturers have strict quality control requirements.
Rv companies do not.
@@LordFalconsword Ford makes 5.5 million vehicles a year, not 350 million.
Automobiles are prolly the most complicated products most people will ever buy. RV's... not so much.
They continue to use cheaper materials to make them lighter weight and there is no pride in workmanship.. from the cheap unit all the way to a 200,000 rig there are issues with the way they put them together.. if they built trucks like this people wouldn’t buy them but unfortunately there is no accountability in the Rv market..
I own a Keystone Challenger we bought back in 2007, and it has been almost trouble free! Got it at Bill Plemmons, RV in NC. They took care of me and did great work when I needed them. Whoever built my RV did a great job!
I went to the Springfield RV show and I noticed their advertisements said generations worth of fun then I look at their warranty and they had a 2/3 year Warranty They are justifying a large price tag by spreading it out over "generations" but only back their product for 2 or 3 year warranty, Is that right?
Would you be OK with trim parts on the interior of you truck coming loose because, well the truck is vibrating etc while going down the road?
Strong, light, cheap. You only get 2 out of three.
Very true
The most important item is a tuba. At the RV park , put the tuba on a table. I guarantee no one will park near you.
Tune your bagpipe.
Guitar and a power amp, turn it way up while you tune up! Grunge rock is effective. The less skill, the better. Let your toddler wail away at Motley Crue or Hendrix, after turning up the gain up to 11. If your loud enough, you can drown out your neighbor's generator. :))
Best advice ever! haha
@@crankychris2 make sure you get a black sharpie and mark an "11" on the volume knob!!!
Do you understand now why people think new RVs are junk after purchasing a new deluxe Coachman with dangerously defective brakes?
Keystone frames are built by Lippert , they are 1/8th thickness.. they will bend the first harsh dip in the road. Half ton trailer that's 30 ft ?? I don't think so
Im not an RVer but did do an RV trip in a Class C for a week and even though it wasn’t classy and cool it was amazing! Your tips help me figure out what I like and don’t like
Those amazing RV experiences are exactly why many of us decide to own our own, BUT unfortunately RV ownership has its own amazing problems and headaches. :)
Don’t give up on your dream!
I think the Fiberglass ones are best, and also without slide-outs is going to be more durable and long lasting on any campers
Actually yes I would like a product that cost more and slow on delivery if it means that the product is well built and going to last. Because of mass production and demand is the reason for many models of different makes including high end are not lasting or needing repair soon after purchasing. Some products are priced exactly as a brick and mortar home thus the price should reflect quality.
There are so many things wrong with the overall RV ecosystem today that range from inferior engineering and profit at any cost construction, to an overwhelming lack of quality service, integrity, and accountability by manufacturers and representatives. If you can accept and are willing to pay for these, that’s a good thing I suppose. We used several for our business but dumped them for hotels and VRBO. Sure, we’ve saved lots of money but most importantly, we also eliminated all of the frustration, expense, and uncertainty that goes along with RV ownership today. It’s sad. We still lament the fact almost no quality options exist today. The dream is a nice one but one tempered by the unfortunate realities of today’s RV industry.
After only a few months of use, my new 2020 Shasta is junk because the quality of the wood is substandard and the slightest anything scratches it, the couch came unscrewed from the wall during travel, multiple pieces of paneling all over the RV have come off, the stove has failed, the door handles on two of the doors have failed and....10 problems. It has been over 2 months waiting for warranty work to be completed and I still don't have my RV back!!! Compare when I owned my Jayco for 3 years and sold it for $2,000 less than what I bought it for because I added some accessories, but bottom line, it looked new after 3 years of heavy use, that my friend is quality.
Thanks for correctly explaining why rvs are mostly junk especially after you take them down the road.
I think they call them “junk” because of the price. Most people cant afford these rv’s, and those that can barely afford them expect them to last 30 years. These are toys, not investments.
I own a 2008 Forest River Rockwood Signature Ultralight 32 foot travel trailer, which I purchased 2 years ago. It has two slides, and has been fairly well cared for. Unfortunately, the fiberglass exterior is delaminating, and I have found the areas around the slides to be very spongy and soft. I have since removed the interior paneling around both slides. Underneath was very wet, but what I was annoyed to find was the very poor construction and choice of materials. The factory had used aspenite (oriented strand board), which was close to mush/rotten around both slides. The trailer uses aluminum bracing, but I also found that only one edge of the aluminum box frame was actually welded. The factory used a poor grade white styrofoam insulation, however you could see gaps of up to an 1" in some places where there was no insulation installed. I pulled out the old osb, and glued in a solid piece of lumber (hardwood), and where there was gaps in the insulation I used a low expanding foam insulation. Over the hardwood, I screwed birch 7/16" plywood, and over that I glued plastic/acrylic sheet called mastic. The walls are significantly stronger and reinforced, and based on what I found, better than what came out of the factory.
Shoddy workmanship, poor quality control, poor original factory materials has been my experience with my Rockwood. Particularly the quality control... it's evident that whoever inspects the original product doesn't flag things like gaps in insulation, etc.
I have also pulled out windows where I have found there to be significant gaps present with no insulation.
I am fortunate that I have the skills to repair and replace what I have found.
I’ve lived in these for 40 years now and the only ones worth a damn are air streams
Older doubletree on newer drv are solid but pricey units
I have a King of The Road! It is a great camper! Much roomier than your airstream. Very good quality!
I love the airstream😎
Now those airstream are the closest RV'S to being built structurally like cars,trucks and suv's.
I want one so I can live in while I finish my money pit 🏠😅
You're very detail oriented, articulate and logical in explaining what you're discussing.
Many posters are simply lazy and/or unhappy in life and give very little thought or explanation when commenting on a video or product. Some comments simply need to be ignored.
I watched the video and read many of the comments - a good video and lots of good comments. From my perspective, when I bought my 24' travel trailer, I expected to enjoy it without worrying about things constantly breaking causing me to spend my time and money fixing things. The RV industry owes buyers that type of experience. I am pleased to say that I bought an Outdoor Manufacturing travel trailer, and I could not be happier with the trailer or the customer service (which I used one time to find out how a system works). I have had the travel trailer for four summers and have towed it over 20,000 miles. Two points: First, manufacturers owe buyers a product that is not constantly breaking regardless of price point. Second owners do have an obligation to maintain their RV in a reasonable manner inaccordance with manufacturers specifications.
20% more cost for a unit that is not put together with stapes and braid nails.... yes my answer is yes!!!
Do I hear a HELL YES! I yell that out at church on Sundays.
I prefer an aluminum frame trailer to wood studs. I've only owned two used RVs. Both have held up fairly well for what the were and what they go through. Some people are just negative and have no real reasoning behind there complaint.
I had a $80k weekend warrior that was impossible to keep warm/cold. Found out why when I ripped off the AC. Exposed the few scraps of insulation! Totally unacceptable for a toyhauler that costs that much back in 2007
Weekend Warrior brand ?
@@TheBrianV correct!
@@TheBrianV yes
We bought a Prime Mfg Sanibel 3902. It's junk because we found 2 pages of items that needed fixing before we picked it up at the dealership (General RV, Hershey, Pa). These were items that should have been identified by the manufacturer and definitely should have been identified by General RV of Hershey, Pa. Of course, General RV of Hershey, PA, said don't worry we'll fix it. After months of trying to get General RV to tell us when they could fix it, they said they fixed 90 percent of our punch list. When we told them they never even worked on it they were "in shock". In short, they are junk because of the poor quality control at the manufacturer; they are junk because the RV dealerships accept poor quality built units and then sell them at overly inflated prices; and they are junk because the customer (myself included) continues to buy them in this poor condition.
I worked on the road 11 months of the year and loved my 36 foot 5th wheel. It was a mid level model, 3 slides, basement model. Unfortunately lightning hit it and set it on fire. The insurance company called in a housing contractor to repair it. He was going to use 1/2 inch sheet rock. He insurance totalled it. Is I still had it.
Not to be mean it is funny listening to the idea that taking the time to make something right instead of just stapling it together somehow constitutes higher cost. So making some cheaply because it is quicker or somehow make more sense on the assembly line cause it is faster. These units cost more today than they ever have and yet the quality is not there. If you don’t understand that concept then I am not sure you understand why people are upset. I do not expect to pay in excess of 50000 dollars just to have trim fall off or something else fail. If you quality control can not keep this from happening then you should not be in business. It is people who constantly make excuses for these manufacturers and justify it that are the problem. If you can’t stand behind your product and know that it is going to hold up why be in business at all. I am not talking about have a product for 10 years and going wrong either. If I were doing the reviews I would try and be honest about who really is doing the best in build quality and who has the best customer service ratings and which units have the best track record with customers. I don’t want to cause confusion I enjoy your channel and think you do a good job. I have my opinions and that is what they are my opinions. My thoughts would be that you are going to have people like me who think differently than you that is not a bad thing. So try not to take our opinions personally like it is against you. It just that concept that people won’t always agree on everything.
Absolutely agree w/ you... Well done !
Maybe you should do the reviews.
"I want a house on wheels for the price of a Suburban"... can't imagine why that doesn't work out
As you say, I guess that is why Airstream are so expensive.
Love my Airstream! Yes, I don’t have the storage, ceiling height, jacuzzi tub, 4 slide outs, and full size appliances, BUT I do have a quality built unit that I will not have to replace! 15 year old Airstream that still looks brand new and has been towed 50,000 miles. Only problem I have had is tires and a door lock.
I have 23 international airstream and yes you have problems. When you have a home that goes trough an earthquake every week you have problems. If you want trouble free, stay in hotel.
@Gravity Slave its expensive because they have nurtured the cachet of the name. They are not built any better than almost any other rig out there.
Friend of mine years ago had a 30 year old Airstream... only problem I witnessed was the rat that ended up in a bucket of water one night. And that was sitting outside the trailer.
Rather just stay in a Hotel or cabin. Better than owning yard art that sits but you still have to keep insurance on. Camping is too much work and money. Remember you still gotta have something to tow the tin can. Not to mention fuel and maintenance costs. To each is own but definitely not worth the future headaches and depreciation.
Because they all leak and then fall apart .It’s not if it will leak it’s when it leaks
I worked at a RV dealer that sold many different brands. Here's some facts that you need to understand. Calling them junk is slightly unfair. They arrive at the dealer with anywhere from 20 to 200 problems that the dealer has to fix. Some of the fixes aren't very well executed. They are more interested in how it looks rather than how it works.
Most RVs are put together very poorly. They are designed very poorly. They cut corners where ever they can. As mentioned in the video, they use staples to hold things together rather than screws. Wires are run horribly, preventing easy maintenance. RVs bounce down the road and take a lot of beating, just like a car. They should be built a lot better.
There is one brand that does the opposite. Airstream. That's why Airstreams cost so much more than any other brand. Keep in mind that you get what you pay for, if you're lucky. I am not affiliated with Airstream at all.
A number of years ago I looked at a mid '70s GMC motor home. The interior was real wood not particle board. I hope I can buy one someday.
I strongly believe that when people are saying junk they are referring to the quality of workmanship. I have been disappointed with my brand new travel trailer due to the same reasons. There are plenty of factory workers assembling RVs and they all do the same thing. Rush rush rush and drive a screw in without any accuracy or measurements. Caulking is always sloppy on low end RVs and high end RVs. Peace work is the main issue I think.
Made to SELL 😊 Deprecating asset , We bought a Ford Transit and made it our way been very happy with our choice 👍
Most RV’s are built for occasional use for family vacations, and just for a few summers. The quality is sufficient for that use case. Expensive, given the minimal projected use? You bet. Just rent to get that impulse out of your system.
We have a 2018 Forest River 5th wheel. The cabinets have fallen through carrying shorts! Real wood cabinets are a must on my next one. The light fixtures fall off. Table has come apart. The wire covers on both couches were not secure. Basically you have to be prepared to fix alot on your own. Im more worried about my front near where the generator goes. The entire thing is coming off the frame! BUT WE LOVE IT!