Living with an EV van take 2 - Zoe EV week 1
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- Опубликовано: 2 апр 2022
- My first attempt at Electric Van life ended after a day with the Kangoo ZE, so that was swapped for a Renault Zoe ZE EV electric van. Whats it like living the EV dream with this car
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Home charging makes a massive difference to the usability of an EV. Rapid charging also. I think both are required to stay sane with one at the moment!
i think u are right :)
If, like Matt, you must hypermile to achieve reasonable range, though, there is no living with one. Driving 20 miles per hour under the limit is Obstructing Traffic, which is a ticket that has 6 points on the license attached.
@Michael Tutty 20mph below a 20mph limit is a little slow 0mph. It was totally unnecessary for Matt to drive like that, OK on Motorway where safe 60mph is more efficient than 70mph but driving everywhere 20mph below limit is just silly
Child slave labour to get the lithium for the batteries. Not for me thanks.
@@hectorshouse7348 same for the lithium in the phone/tablet/laptop you watched this on🙄
An EV without fast charging is just a joke. They need to be eradicated, they don't belong on the market.
If a petrol car had a 2mm aperture through which to fill the tank, people wouldn't churn out this "you're using it wrong, it's only meant for [x]" nonsense.
I would. So I dont think its nonsense. As long as its clearly stated in the specs, I dont see a problem. Its quite possible some others commenting such dont either? Different viewpoints, doesnt seem that uncommon, does it?
Was having a windscreen repair from one of the nationals . Mentioned your review of the ev van . His eyes rolled and said it would be a few years before they started using them. He gave, as an example , his day . He started off in York, then to Selby and back to York and then onto Whitby . They get paid a bonus for doing extra calls so he wouldn’t want to spend any time charging during the day as it meant less £££. Diesel rules for vans for the time being
Something worth noting. You can charge at 22kW AC on any Zoe. You don't need CCS for that.
Was about to say the very same
Clear, it's one of is advantage.
Yes, in theory, but in cold weather it is rather 10 kW than 20 kW. :(
@@aron68on_etoro95 Having used it in cold weather, I've got 20kW. But that was after a long drive, so I had probably got the battery nice and warm.
Will old houses need their supply upgrading in order to charge at home?
I guess the average Zoe van owner will stump up for the fast charging ability,as it makes it much more usable and will be valuable come resale time.
But won't the new owner need to buy their house too, so they can charge it? That makes it very expensive lol.
He's not talking about the rapid charger, he's talking about the car's ability to rapid charge. Which is an optional.
@@brusselssprouts560 no landlords can get a grant towards installing a charging point
Yes, good that there is such a try before you buy scheme can't help thinking they either got talked into a cheap deal or only had a limited budget.
furious driving, you absolutely nailed it in the cost analysis at the end! exactly what I think, I wanted an EV to save money but as I don't need a new car, it would take me forever to get my money back.
however..... if we look at the beginning of the video and the analysis of the charger port.... someone needs to to come to my class to learn what a square is! 😬
Bit of an own goal from the EV loan scheme. They either need to give you the granny leads or specify the vehicle with fast charging. Otherwise it's borderline not usable without the borrower having a home/work charge point...
I would guess thats what they think the ones borrowing it has got. Otherwise, it would be madness, yes.
Glad you kinda sorta liked it, I have both rapid charge and a home charger so it really works for me and I love mine. Don’t forget a lot of Tesco’s have free 22kw type 2 chargers which will fill the Zoe up from nearly empty in around 2 hours (obviously if you can get on an empty one as they’re extremely popular)
As you are a genuine EV owner, I do have a question. Putting opinions aside, do you find owning one is actually financially or practically beneficial? As the purchase price is so high, surely you can never earn back the savings in fuel cost? Especially considering in seven or eight years you're going to need a new battery which will probably write the car off from an economic standpoint.
Be interesting to see (obviously you don't have to give personal details) if on the whole you think it's worth it from a financial standpoint. As let's face it, most people buy a car to go from A-B, so spending double on what is essentially a Fiesta sized car doesn't make sense in my head...
As much as people will claim environmental benefits, I for one couldn't afford to spend double regardless on how much I wanted to help climate change. Thanks
The battery life is longer than that of the car. And it is guaranteed (180,000 km). So that's not a problem.
The first Zoe dates from 2012, Renault has experience on that.
@@Adam.Piper62 I can't comment for Piner but as my EV gets delivered next week I can answer the cost analysis.
The EV, including the monthly payments compared to my current automatic petrol of a similar size, is cheaper overall. It genuinely is. The PCP payments on a Corsa-E top spec worked out about £50pcm more a month than the mid spec Citroen C3 turbo auto I currently have and will be replacing - if I had got less excited at the order form stage and went for the lower spec which still outspecced the citroen they'd be almost the same monthly! However with home charging at 22p/kwh at the current electricity tariff my £60 a month fuel bill is going to become more like £12 - and potentially nil as my employer is installing free to use charging points (probably a tax implication for them but as far as I understand it this isnt treated as a benefit in kind so no impact on me). No road tax, insurance was actually cheaper, servicing is half the cost and after the 2nd year servicing need only be done every 2 years (though naturally I'd pay for a safety check on brakes and whatnot). Even at expensive rapid chargers out in the real world at 50p/kwh its still slightly cheaper or cost equivalent to the real world economy of the Citroen. Over the course of a 4 year pcp period the cost is at best, several hundred £ less or at worst cost neutral, depending on how much public charging I need to do.
The claim you will need a new battery is largely a falsehood, i'm afraid. With very early Leafs and Zoes perhaps so but they did not have any thermal battery management technology - the Leaf still doesn't though the new Zoe does at least have some form of battery cooling. Modern EVs all have watercooling to help keep the battery at the optimum temperature. Take for example Tesla (Appreciate they're a more expensive model but the tech and set up isn't much different). Their data for cars in the states that have done 200,000 miles show degradation between 5-10% over that time, just as older cars become less fuel efficient with time. 200,000 mile cars in the UK are normally either ex-rep cars or in private hands it would take 15/20 years to achieve that.
The environmental benefits are there. Volvo did a comparative study recently of their XC40 petrol vs XC40 EV, an interesting one as the cars are identical and built in the same factory. The study concluded that on average the CO2 impact will be net positive after 55,000 miles - but in a developed western country like ours, this could be as low as 22,000 miles. This will only ever get better as the CO2 mix goes ever greener - or if you can self generate using solar/wind or charge off peak at night when wind carries a lot of the grid supply.
It's not all roses obviously. In winter the range of all EVs will drop quite noticeably and PSA group cars like the Corsa are worse than almost all the others, though they have apparently updated the hardware to deal with this as of December last year. Unless you go for a longer range EV like a Kona or an e-Niro you will find there's gonna be a 20-40 minute charging stop in there for anything over 150 miles in my car, I expect. I stop every hour and a half to two hours anyway (which the RAC reckons you should do for safety purposes etc) so this doesnt feel like a hardship; but if you're the type that insists on being able to go from Cornwall to Scotland on the time it takes you to visit the facilities and put fuel in then it'll force some compromise.
Right now the used market is a) crazy expensive and b) there aren't enough available with modern EV tech. Old Leafs and some Zoes, I believe, use CHAdeMO ports rather than the more accepted standard CCS (think Betamax) which are slowly becoming less common and they have old battery tech. The market due to the world the way it is at the moment means modern used EVs are still stupid money and not everyone can PCP a car, totally get that. However the technology is there - all that is needed now is time and the world to be slightly less crazy and the filter down will happen.
Well. That and the Chinese to bring their cheaper no-nonsense EVs over. Given how many they make, and how cheaply they do it, I suspect they'll be trigger somewhat of a renaissance like when the Japanese came to europe in the 70s.
Vans, difficult. The Kangoo and the Zoe seem poor choices compared to the Maxus electric vans, electric transit on the way or the Peugeot/Citroen ones. It's still quite early in the day for van drivers at the moment I think...
@@Adam.Piper62 As another Zoe owner, I'm going to say it depends on the mileage. If you're doing high mileage but mainly within the capacity of the battery, and can charge at home, it absolutely makes sense. Pre pandemic I was doing 30,000 miles a year, but 90% of it was within the capacity of the battery (at the time I had a 41kWh battery Zoe).
I went from £80 a week in diesel to £30 a week in electricity. As the car I was driving beforehand had a £100 a month difference in HP costs I was still £100 up every month. That's £1200 a year. The service interval is 18,000 miles on a Zoe compared to 10,000 miles on the Fiesta I had beforehand. A service on the Fiesta was about £180 compared to £100 on the Zoe. Brake pads on the fiesta needed changing at 25k miles and discs at 50k. At 90k on the Zoe, the discs were barely worn and the pads were about 40% worn. This is down to regenerative braking.
The battery will probably outlast the car, it's warranted for 8 years, but in reality will last 12-15 years before its had it (early Nissan Leafs are the exception, not the rule as they had poor chemistry, a lot has been learned since then.) At 90k miles, the Zoe's battery was still at 97% state of health. The chemistry is not the same as a laptop battery. After that, although not suitable for use in a car, the battery is still useful for battery storage purposes and they will go for that for another 5 years prior to being recycled.
@@raubuhn4354 Zoe never used CHAdeMO, early Zoes used rapid AC charging (43kW through a type 2 connector!) The Leaf uses CHAdeMO to this day, although its replacement will use CCS.
So what about actually using it as a van something I've never seen in a video, cause my small van carries at least 200kg+ in the back all the time, I think the range will be a whole different story.
Would have been nice to see it driven on the same route
1)empty
2) fully loaded with its max carry load weight.
ruclips.net/video/kR7drJT-ehE/видео.html
Ideal for local deliveries of many things EVRI/Hermes etc
Depends on your driving. Steady speed, almost no effect. Stop/go traffic its a lot more, still less than ICE cars relatively.
Matt, I understood the ZOE without the CCS rapid charge will still charge at 22kWh on a/c, a rarity on EVs but still better than 11kWh
Thanks Matt, for the real world and honest assessment of electric vehicle ownership . Impossible for me to have a charger where I live . The Zoe seems ridiculous money for what it is .
It's not 'real world' though, is it? Its the world of someone who can't charge his car at home.
@@SM-dt1pr it is the real world for most people for most people who have no way of charging at home , like me .
@@SM-dt1pr You mean a huge proportion of the population then?! Not only do they not actually provide a plug even if you did have the luxury but a massive number of people in this country, especially those who live in cities where this car is most suited, don't have a driveway. Your lucky if you do.
These cars are for companies doing short daily milage. Thats it.
A relative of mine bought a Zoe when they first came out and it was an absolute disaster the repair man saw it more than he did, it put him of EVs and still won’t have one now. I assume they have improved over the years
£26K to £29K would get you a new-ish C Class diesel estate with plenty of carrying capacity, low emissions, 50 to 60 mpg and easy top-ups available everywhere. Only saying. 😁
you say good things my friend
£30,000 is roughly $45,000CDN. Worst case scenario I would need to put $20,000 into restoring my 1990 Volvo 240 Estate. That extra $25,000 buys a LOT of gas considering I spend well under $100 a week on it. Even when there are 8 inches of snow and the temperature is -20 Celsius I still do not spend $100 a week on fuel. Oh, in the summer, keeping the speed below 80mph, my old lump of a brick will still manage about 475 miles on a 60 litre tank, and that is with a reasonable amount in reserve.
Hi,
common "fast" chargers for the home will only be up to 22kW (32A 3-Phase) AC, some local providers even limit to 11kW (16A 3Phase)- so the zoe would also only charge at 7kw. Home DC fast charging (with the two additional CCS plugs you've missing on the zoe) would be a tad more than 500 GBP. If you have 3 Phase at home, which not everyone seems to be so lucky to have.
But yes, a suitable public charging infrastructure is key.
Luckily here in Germany the charging network has become quite dense in the last years, mostly thanks to government money. There are 3 chargers in my village - one of them even free, so not being able to charge at home (renting a flat) is not an issue, next charger is 300m away. And there is at least one 22kw one in almost every village around here. Also a lot of supermarkets (Aldi, Kaufland) started to offer free charging (AC 22kW and DC/CCS up to 50kW). My old 2015 Smart ED3 will only to about 60miles, but as it has a 22kW charger, it's topped of in under 1h on a 22kW station, so even when visiting my parents (about 100miles one way), a short coffee stop and some shopping at a Kaufland about half way through will get me there. Free (well, aside from tires and general wear and tear). Charging there is also free as the local "Stadtwerke" have installed six free chargers (about 1 for every 1000 people living there, and there are 2 non free ones from other providers) - and if you want your own home chargers, they offer about 50% off on the price for electricity used for charging. Installing your own charger also was rewarded by the government with 900Eur. Unfortunately that money has run out mid 2021 (they calculated for 500.000 installations, and got 620.000 request). and will probably not replenished till summer. Bugger...
Hi, I didn't understand what Matt was saying. They won't supply a three pin plug, so what's the cable in the back actually for?
I had no idea the Zoe was available as a van!
Home charger or Rapid charge facility are basically essential to regular use of an EV. Zoe can charge at up to 22kW on the type 2 if you can find a charger capable of that. I know others have said this, but it needs repeating!
Great to see this and the Kangoo video. I think you've given a pretty unbiased summary of this - basically EVs still aren't suitable for everyone and may never be. I've looked into it and it really doesn't fit with my mine or my wife's lifestyle. Since the pandemic our mileage has dropped off a cliff, but we still do the occasional long journey. At the moment a modern low powered petrol car is a much better way of being more economical and environmentally friendly for us. I've had the occasionally EV nut tell me I must not have done the numbers correctly etc. but the reality is its not for everyone. That shouldn't put some people off, for example those that do short-medium regular commutes and can put in a charger at home. The bigger worry is the government putting all their eggs in the EV basket (or at least attempting to look like they are) without thinking about proper investment in public transport, hydrogen etc.
Couldn't agree more. As I'm still working from home, and will be for the foreseeable future, I only commute to the office about twice per month (sometimes not even that), my car is a 1.2 petrol and already meets the current 'clear air zone' in Birmingham. Yet trying to explain to an EV crazed co-worker that they do not make sense for the average person, they simply couldn't understand that it is cheaper and better for the environment to keep a petrol/ diesel car running, opposed to scrapping it and buying a new EV. They also couldn't understand why if people are complaining about fuel prices, they don't just go and buy an EV (he earns considerably more than I do).
@@niallwood Its the "current thing" just like every other fad. "One must be an fool to not support "current thing", wouldnt you say?"
a good friends wife has a Nissan Leaf as her town runabout .. it suits her use perfectly & she loves the fact the heating is on a timer .. but they have a drive & home-charger .. and use his ( diesel ) car for any trip longer than about 100 miles as neither of them trust the charging network
I bet Specsavers are grateful for the free advertising
I remember hearing from a Mini salesman the people who buy electric cars and take them on any distance are the older generation who plan out the route, plan the charging stops, stop for a couple of hours then drive to the next charging point, charge again and finally arrive at their destination. In this 24/7 world we live in business who take these electric vans will be wanting the fast charger version of this as time costs money, compared to the Kangoo the Zoe is a much better van with better range.
Great review! Really gives us a great insight in to the rare Renault Zoe! Btw there is a small typo in the title, tale instead of take
You seem to have missed the fact that the Zoe has a 22kW On board AC Charger. Whilst that's still going to be slower than DC Rapid charging, you're going to get a pretty significant top up in a short period of time, and go from say 20 to 80% in less than 90 minutes.
Matt, top marks for perseverance with these. It is the way forward whatever we might think personally ICE will be legislated off the road eventually. Clearly, the fact this is a car platform is a big advantage in terms of driving dynamics and comfort. However, the constant elephant in the room is range when charging speeds are low. Up the charging speed and the game changes somewhat e.g. Tesla.
The infrastructure thing is the real problem. I just did a two month 6,000km drive around NZ, filled the petrol car 15 times, 10 minutes per fill, never had range anxiety. Only saw two motels the whole time which offered charging, and both were occupied when I arrived.
Although have never driven a zoe, I remember being chased down some local country roads by one ... and not being able to get rid of it. I was driving a Mazda6 2.2d 175 (no slouch, and pretty good in the twisties), yet I just could not get any distance vs. that small electric thing despite being quite enthusiastic. They pack a large punch.
As much as I love my current e55, I might get a zoe for pootling around town.
reminds me of a story of my dad road rallying against a tesla model s in his mk1 impreza from oslo to kristiansand. The Tesla was just about able to catch on the straights, but halfway there the Tesla ran out of charge lol
Chased by a Zoe? Did you get her number
Without doubt much less of a compromise than the Kangoo.
Nice interior. Looks like fun trying to keep it charged with the Regen braking.
You should probably investigate a 4 or 5 year old Zöe or Nissan Leaf.
I know it won't be as good as a new one but £26,000 to £29,000 for a small car seems quite a lot.
I love the lock up garage and back up petrol support vehicle idea…. I think you are definitely on to something. 😂
So the zoe van is basically a 5 door zoe with the back seats removed. Is it cheaper? Would it be a saving to buy the van and replace the seats.
"Pumpy pack". I like that. From now on, I shall call my car's kit by that name.
Ouch, that covered-up fast charger plug is the modern EV equivalent of a radio blanking plate on a older car: there’s something right there that other people can have but not for you!
Interesting videos. I think the comparison of the two just highlights how much the technology has moved in a few years.
One request. Could you do an actual car review of the Zoe Van as you would for a fuel car?
Hmmm fast charger at home seems the only way to make this work. For the moment the infrastructure just isn’t there. So I think I’ll continue my investigations into running my T4 on veggie oil (though it’s too cold at the moment). Any ideas on that Mat?
It’s a 2.5tdi from 2001 with the 150hp AXG engine.
I think the new intro revving sound should be the rover p8 revving. PS- our Semi's do between 68-71 mph, ibe been passed over 75 mph by some (with full loads) so if you find one going good you can get 6-10mpg fuel savings until they pull off to a rest stop, weigh station or exit.
over here theyre limited by eu law to 56mph unfortunately
The sarcasm @10:30 “I don’t know why everyone doesn’t do that” was glorious palpable 😂. Great review and real world experiences about living with an electric car. Now dust off the 145 Cloverleaf and give those winding lanes a proper thrash (minus the slight eco guilt).
Child slave labour to get the lithium for the batteries. Not for me thanks.
These are great for work an home school run that's about it for get long trips👍
Nice little van 🚘🚙🚗👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Last I read there's 40% of us in the UK population that don't have off road parking/drive to charge up. We were also in the top 10 worst towns in England to own an ev due to lack of public chargers, 18 of 24 in the town are in 3 multistory carparks round the town centre, where you have pay to park and charge...
I've heard this figure of 40% being unable to home charge before, but I think it's way too low. The only way it makes sense is if people in terraced houses are considered to be able to home charge, which is completely wrong - you aren't guaranteed to get parked close enough to your house to charge, unless you trail a cable from your house to wherever you managed to find a parking space three streets away.
Plus there's the danger of trailing cables over pavements, it's only a matter of time before someone is sued for causing someone to trip with their charging cable.
@@Teribus13 not helped by our local council who some 10-15 years moved all our street lamps from kerbside to against property/garden walls etc as a crash safety measure so we can't even plug into a lamppost charger, we'd have to dig a channel under pavements to pass a cable through or have those popup kerbside posts and have reserved parking spaces-can't see either being passed - ££££'s
You are spot on. We have a Hyundai Kona 64kwh EV with a fast home charger. The car has a real world winter range of 200 miles, nearly 300 miles summer range, so after the initial outlay we are saving money, in 9k miles of driving it's cost us about £120 using cheap rate home charging. As you said we were already in the 3 or 4 year PCP cycle so going for an EV was a no brainer.
It's worth noting you don't need a big deposit for most of these deals, I always put the least amount possible down as its just dead money.
However if we didn't have the home charger it would be a pain to use, although there is a fast charger fairly local to us, and if we owned our car outright (OK we do own 2 others, a classic and older 'modern' petrol) then financing an expensive EV wouldn't be much of a cost saving.
As has been said to make EV's in their current form factor work you need a fast home charger and the ability to rapid charge.
Seems short sighted of the Council to offer this scheme with such dated vehicles without the ability to fast charge, hardly gives a positive impression to those trialling it.
Child slave labour to get the lithium for the batteries. Not for me thanks.
Are those two Jag & Landy relics in the background converted to electric ?
The cost is the biggest dislike for me of EV cars. I simply haven’t got the money to spend on a charging point or a car, the finance each much would be crippling, not that I want to tie myself to a huge monthly payment anyway! It’s all very well the government forcing us into EVs by forcing the price of fuel up but some of us don’t actually want an EV. I like spirited driving and enjoying the art of driving but EVs, while being very quick, numb the experience so much. The range anxiety is ridiculous too.. very informative video Matt, and very interesting to hear your experience of it all.
Child slave labour to get the lithium for the batteries. Not for me thanks.
Have you looked at the MG5 Estate EV? Whilst not a van it offers a lot of utility potential.
tested a year ago, its good but the boot makes it quite limiting as a true estate car
ruclips.net/video/kR7drJT-ehE/видео.html
Totally agree with your comments about electric charging issues, I live somewhere that doesn't have enough capacity to have a home charger. The nearest town also has very few charging points and those that are here often are broken. Just not practical to own an EV for me.
I saw one of these in a local demo video. A couple bought one of these Zoes, they were quite satisfied.
Of course there are the naysayers, that I just kicks the bucket unexpectedly. Welp ... tell 'em what; any car can do it. Even well maintained ones, when a hose bursts, or a failure happens because a part that is damaged or made low quality from factory.
The infrastructure is the critical aspect. And the price.
The infrastructure (chargers and charging modes included); as said, as even I said in another of your videos; unless it is as widely available as petrol stations, EVs won't compete with ICEs.
The price; they go for a reasonable price, but as per today, 26 thousand Pounds (or so) can find other ways to go. Where I live that is the price of half a flat. A flat, that will serve you until the end of your days, and probably your children. So, unless I get paid a lot more (which would require me going 300% competitive at the workplace, surpassing management two levels above), these cars are just too expensive to be had by a simple mortal being living around here. And petrol will only get more expensive, because of business, so.. yeah, the experience of driving is fleeting.
One question I didn't see answered in this video: what advantage do you get from having one of these compared to a regular Zoe with the rear seats down? It doesn't look like it has hugely greater luggage space, and the cost isn't massively different (you said the one of these with a fast charger is £29k and I believe the regular Zoe with that feature is about £30.5k), so I'm kind of wondering what the point is at this stage.
I'm guessing tax benefits
Our ZE 50 car came with the DC recharging facility, the price difference was £1,000. But we paid about 30% less than the Renault asking price for the car. Deals can be done. Take out the rear seats and it doubles as a decent small van.
Use a 22 kW 3-phase charger and take a 1 hour lunch break. You'll have added 40% of battery charge, giving you at least another another 100 miles. Or, 50+ miles in a 30 minute such break.
A bit like having a four gallon tank and filling stations 150 miles apart. Early days though.
Most of us will be either too old or dead by the time they make these EV shitboxes workable.
Kept my "self charging" hybrid now for 7 years ( longest ownership for me ) waiting for the public network to catch up. Looks like another MOT is on the cards.
'Self charging', yes, at the purchase price of petrol.
@@stulop Its quite clever marketing, wouldnt you say?
@@GoldenCroc yes, they make it seem like some kind of environmental, money saving, perpetual energy magic. Turning your petrol into electricity is the simplest form of greenwashing.
@@stulop Most people dont know which part of a car is the front or the back. I dare say most people also believe in perpetual motion. Not to mention all "water driven car" and similar scams people fall for. All in all, marketing like that is almost totally risk free.
interesting video and comparison with the kangoo, but makes me wonder what the best EV van for £25k would be? I'm guessing the MG5 estate at makes a case for £2k more?
So it’s great if you get an E van that’s so tiny you can’t use it as a van anyway?
Its perfect for the very many businesses that need a car size van and benefit from business taxes on them like the Fiesta van, Fiat Scudo, Vauxhall Combi & Corsa vans, Mini Clubvan even the MG Express, there are loads
Be great to see a review of one or two or the larger electric vans (Ducato/Movano/Relay/Sprinter/Crafter/etc) in terms of “mpg” if you can find any dealers with demonstrators Matt...
I prefer your Rover P6. If I had to throw 500 at something, I'd be throwing it at that. And wouldn't have to worry about the road rage I cause by crawling around below the speed limit.
This is very interesting Matt. Couple of things you have covered that are just not in the usual EV test. I.e. if you live in a flat and have to park on the street, what to do. Also first time I have seen an EV defrosting and affect on range. As you say, without the Granny charger it wouldn’t be much good. I am hoping for the day I can have an EV as we have solar panels, plenty of sun in Tasmania, and I am going to drive it flat chat everywhere and plug it in and charge for next to nothing. 😄
Child slave labour to get the lithium for the batteries. Not for me thanks.
Has made me wonder whether the Zoe is better, because it was built and designed to be an electric vehicle from the start, where as the Kangoo was a diesel van originally and the an electric version was built.
Great review on an electric small van they really need a much better infrastructure to suit the electric car in Australia l have only seen two charging places that was when l was working as a courier
Here is a naiive question. Could manufacturers fit photoelectirc cells in the roof so that solar energy tops up the battery when its parked and on the move?
They could do but it wouldn’t be worth it
Even if you lived in the desert a single solar panel would take forever to charge an ev.
I live off road and my car has to be at least 60 yards away amongst other cars. Therefore even if I had a charger I could not charge the car. The choice I have is to get a car with a fast charger with a fast charger point close by and this could take years! Added to that I could never afford a new electric car. I would have to go for an old one with its range reduced as the battery life shortens. If the majority of cars become electric with our present power supply at its limit already how will they be able to charge!
Interesting item from Furious Drivel, good to see real life usage and a relevant view on the drawbacks of the charging infrastructure.
Out of curiosity, what is your job where you need a small van but loads of range?
I actually need an estate car, but that wasnt an option. Im a photographer and do about 30k miles year
Excellent review once again. This is why Tesla is still ahead of other manufacturers due to its rapid charging network and that makes a big difference to the usability of an electric car.
A few weeks ago I went to Shropshire and stopped on the motorway services. 4 electric charging points, which were busy and two cars waiting… the public infrastructure doesn’t grow fast enough and there’s a myriad of suppliers and different apps. On top, the ridiculous petrol station parking rules that end up penalising drivers for using their charging service.
We’ve come a long way with electric vehicles, but still some way to go.
I might be being a bit dense. But definitely don't see any advantage in parking in a supermarket and charging up.and also taking a petrol or diesel car along for the ride. Isn't that counter productive ?
Never had a problem with the recharging infrastructure, living in central Lincolnshire. And I don't have a wall charger at home. The vehicle is almost always parked at home overnight. The situation is improving rapidly around here, but we only had a handful of public and semi-public chargers in the are in early 2020.
BTW, you can turn off automatic door locking and unlocking. It's described in the owner's manual. The settings are really easy to find in the menu, even without throwing your 'Man Card' away.
Also, defrosting is easiest if the car is recharging; preset the car to do that in time for your estimated journey start. That leaves you with a full battery.
Our ZE50 has always given us more significantly more than 200 miles in Winter, driving normally, 250+ miles driving quickly in Summer, and up to around 300 miles in Summer, if driving carefully.
On previous Model ZOE ZE40 we could defrost from inside our warm house by pressing a button on the key card or use the app, after 10 minutes defrost car was defrosted & warm inside, happy days.
Child slave labour to get the lithium for the batteries. Not for me thanks.
@@hectorshouse7348 haven't you said that before?
I love having a car that I don’t have to sit behind lorry’s in even with the inflated prices of fuel.
Child slave labour to get the lithium for the batteries. Not for me thanks.
What do you use the van for, that cannot be done in one of your cars, or is this just a good excuse for a test?
I do believe, with great certainty, that the answer to your question is "Yes".
My take on it is that if you are going to invest in an EV you will also be having home charge installed. Eliminating the need for stopping to charge at supermarkets, as you say in your video you situation is unique
What if you live in a terrace, flat, rented accommodation, houseboat, etc ?
Congratulations on quoting the video
A very well balanced and reasoned assessment of the current EV situation.
Surely all the driving back and forth to a charger in a petrol car negates the point of using an EV to reduce emissions?
I drive a 63 Reg Zoe with a 100 mile range and cannot charge at home and I have been driving it for six and a half years with no problem. On long journeys I have Rapid charge availability. But I have had no problems. I suggest if you are able to get a home charger put in. And why would you buy the Zoe van without the Rapid charge facility? Does not make sense.
Child slave labour to get the lithium for the batteries. Not for me thanks.
@@hectorshouse7348 To get the lithium, really, they are cobalt mines. And that is used to a greater amount in mobile phones and laptops as well as catalytic converters in ICE cars.
😂 So you need a petrol car to run your EV. The EV charging network is pants unless you have a Tesla but 55k for a Tesla van is a bit steep even if there was one. Nice honest review Matt it still confirms EV’s arnt really practical for most of us, you hit the nail on the head those of us without the resources it’s a non starter.👏
mrs furious wasn't annoyed, she was FURIOUS haha
I've only just started the video but a zoe van next to a crown Victoria's kind of funny well in my opinion anyway but I'll carry on watching tho didnt know they did a zoe van I've only seen a zoe car
13:34 Yep, that’s now ok to drive!
Love the zoe
I still can't see how EVs will take over from petrol. Not everyone can charge at home. The stress of planning a route. Having to charge for ages rather than filling up and driving away straight away. Charging stations being full. And if we are all using electricity to charge our cars surely this will cause problems with supply? If all these problems get sorted, and the huge cost of an EV comes down then great, but at the moment I just can't see how this will work out.
On first impressions it's a very striking looing small van, I'll say that at least.
You could always have a diesel generator next to the car to charge it at night 👍🤔
Yep, you aren't selling it to me mate, driving slowly and constantly fretting about charge. I think I will leave it for a few years to see how it develops.
My step-mum got an VW id.3 as a Motability car and it's been crap for them. Notably they have nowhere to charge at home, but they are in Southampton so not exactly in the sticks and having to find a charger that actually gives a decent rate of charge and it not expensive is not that easy, even the VW ones in Tesco don't give it much range. They have the bigger battery base model and it fast charges so it's not like the Kangoo with it's lack of range and fast charging).
My Dad normally drives it and hates the fact that if you need to have the heating on it takes away a decent chunk of range, and he also dislikes the fact that the moment you sit in the drivers seat it's on.
They're going to be swapping when they can for something petrol, either a Corsa or back to their previous vehicle, the excellent Ioniq hybrid.
Also stopping every now and then to charge is all well and good if you only ever do the same journey and can plan the charging into the journey9and don't mind the wait) but if you need the vehicle in an emergency you need something that can be topped up quickly and without having to meticuliously plan the route beforehand, also you can't guarntee that a charger is going to work so you could rock up to one with little charge left, find out it's not working and not have the range to hunt for another one.
Also for proper fast chargers I can see National Grid getting a bit anxious about having too many of them connected to the grid, as loads of random high power draws are not a power managers friend.
Though I do think our acquision of Kangoo's or similar at work to replace most of our diesel fleet of ~8 vans (mainly Berlingos, with 1 Dispatch LWB, 1 Fiorino, 1 Nemo and 1 Relay) is sensible (we have on Kangoo already, although it is our least used van), but trundling around a caravan site is a bit different to regular driving!
The Zoe looks to be a much better option for you than the Kango.
I think we will all be changing our driving habits in the brave New world where we will all have to drive much slower in fear of running out of battery. Obviously ICE like consistent speed where as EV benifit from the regeneration when braking.
I think for this to be a viable purchase you need the fast charging and a home charger. I honestly believe that most of us could use these cars without having to make too many sacrifices if we could charge rapidly or at home.
Also I believe that if you have the car plugged in at home you can pre heat the car while still on mains power which is very useful in winter.
That Zoe will take 22kW from a higher power post like some of the supermarkets have, and I understand the new Gridserve sites have too.
the ones with the extra plug will but not these
@@furiousdriving Yes these. Any Zoe can charge at 22kW AC. DC CCS charging goes to 46kW. The 22kW AC has got me out of trouble when a rapid was broken.
@@cjmillsnun Seems the charging station he encountered was only single phase / 32A. That's the 7.2kW. I'm not to familliar with the UK grid, and if 3P is common everywhere like on the continent, judging by some UK based electrician youtubers (like artisan, CJR, GCH or big clive...), common homes don't seem to be 3 phase, at least the consumer units they showed were only 1P.
@@christiankolinski1563 Correct, homes are single phase, and that's fine because you can charge overnight. but 3phase chargers are not uncommon in commercial settings (shopping centres, motorway services, supermarkets, etc)
@@cjmillsnun OK, so Mr Furious would be stuck on 7,2kW max at home, so a 6hour charge. That's a bummer, as getting a 22kW box here (lucky 3 phase country) is the same price as single phase, and at 22kW the Zoe is fully charged in about 2h from empty Which would also keep Mrs. Furious happy as she wouldn't have to park her car on the street for the night, just during supper would be enough :) And almost all public chargers are 22kW at least which will get you by even without DC fast charging, as even a 30min coffee break will get you a quarter of a tank (so about ... 50 miles?).
……and another thing 😁 I’m confused re where they put some of the chargers, I went to my local tip the other day which is on an industrial estate and outside the tip they’ve formed a parking space and a EV charger, I saw a lady there charging her Audi e something, with her young family and dog. She was still there upon exiting 1/2 hr later, trouble being there is no cover, no lighting no shops nearby nothing. Now it may have been put there for the future and business owners but surely they’d just get their own, just didn’t seem to make any sense. And it’s the only one for about 10 miles, when nearby there is a small village with coop etc - just blew my mind re the thinking.
Would be interesting to see how you got on with a Tesla Model Y and the fast charging and Tesla Network.
Child slave labour to get the lithium for the batteries. Not for me thanks.
I’m not OCD but I sure noticed the random appearance of the orange, bronze, orange, and bronze hatchbacks at 8:46
I wonder if you could charge the Zoe by towing it around with another car.
If you think the infrastructure is rubbish where you are, try Wester Ross in NW Scotland! There is ONE charger in Gairloch, and none for 60 miles in any direction. At the weekend I chatted with someone from a neighbouring village who was charging her all electric Whateveritwas at the village charge point. Biggest mistake in her life, she said. They can't charge at home, but assumed she would get at least 150 of the promised 230 mile range. 6.5 hrs of daylight in mid-winter, heating on, lights, demisters front and back, wipers etc, plus lots of hills and bends, thus much decelerating (however, you will never get back as much as you use on the up-hills because of electrical and mechanical inefficiencies; you never get anything for free) and re-accelerating. She reckoned 120 miles reliably, and anywhere bigger than any of the local villages is 60 miles away... To go to Inverness - 70 miles - and back requires a charge. On 'range anxiety' - drive yer diesel chugger with the trip computer on instant mpg and you see the numbers go up and down. But for 'mileage to empty' you get the most EV-like read out, hammer it and see it plummet, likewise ease off and Voila! Another 50 miles magicked from somewhere. It's no different to an EV, except that I can get 800 miles from one fill! And no 'leakage' if it sits for a week.
Child slave labour to get the lithium for the batteries. Not for me thanks.
Browsing through the comment section I find it funny how many are still outright dismissing EV's cause certain models don't fit THEIR needs. Maybe some people are even happy with an EV without fast charging cause it just fits what they need, so for them the 2k cost saving does matter, and they don't have any disadvantage.
I also still believe that the Kangoo from Matt's first EV video isn't just downright bullshit. There are good use cases for such a car for some. Otherwise Renault wouldn't make it. My sister has a Smart EV that does even less than 100 miles, guess what? She's just super happy to take it to town. For her it's much more comfortable than any petrol car. Charge it at home, no need to stop at any petrol station.
But, sure, for someone living in a city apartment and no private charger available, you'll need a fast-charging EV. And depending on the type of driving, it also should have 200+ or 250+ miles range to be practical. So the Zoe, in general, does seem to fit that bill. It's not that petrol or Diesel comes for free, as we're all experiencing these days ...
But... The whole idea was the council gave him the van, to prove that EV might be worth converting too. He gave them his use case, and they gave him that model. It's a personal review. It's not dismissing EV's in general its dismissing that particular product.
Plus I'm sorry, when there are other van's available for around the same price that can do everything the kangaroo can + whole lot extra like fast charging and God forbid a plug, why would you ever buy it? Renault keep chucking it out because there yet to introduce a new model even though it's 5 years past its sell buy date. Even if it's suitable for your daily needs when there's something else available that surpasses it for the same price it still makes a terrible purchase.
@@Adam.Piper62 Did he really state his usage case though? I would think he didnt. Or they simply didnt care what it was, and just assigned him one anyway. Not really the fault of the car that he was assigned the wrong one.... Stiletto heels at a 100m dash competition isnt the best either, but can be suitable at other times.
Also, what electric vans are availible to purchase at better price with better specs?
And then there's the new cost of electricity. Surely it would be better to charge at home during off-peak hours? Generator in the boot?
finally! someone mentioning its impossibleness if you live in a flat! I cant even use a soldering iron since it's not cordless, the EV is not presentable as a viable idea
Can of deicer?
A car park near us has charging if you park outside shop hours get a ticket i know someone who went charged there EV outside hours and got a ticket was cancelled but more hassle for the EV owner. i also thought if you where charging could stay longer then car park limit ? I like the idea of a EV but the hassle poor EV charging is letting it down great vid as always thanks.
Child slave labour to get the lithium for the batteries. Not for me thanks.
Remember only 50% of the hills in the UK are uphill... 😉
Interesting video on Harry's Garage which highlighted that from about Manchester southward most of the electricity is generated by fossil fuel, therefore the carbon cost per mile is higher than if you used an internal combustion engine. Let's all jump on the low emissions bandwagon.
I get range anxiety just watching your video. Instead of banning all ICE cars in 2030, why not let us keep hybrids to get us used to electric driving a bit for like another 5 years, then EV only after that. The petrol station in my small town gets 96 cars per hour. That's a lot of public chargers needed to service the same amount of EVs... and space needed.
New hybrids aren't banned until 2035, if I remember correctly! And it's only new cars, keep the old one (or buy a used one) for as long as you like!
@@simonpritchard472 Problem is, petrol might actually become a bit of a rarity. Not to mentione expanded "enviromental zones"...
E.V. are the way to go, yes totally understand having 1 for local running around and whatever
But they still arnt there, still needs refining
Maybe in a few years
Child slave labour to get the lithium for the batteries. Not for me thanks.
@@hectorshouse7348 deja vu
ive got a bmw 330e and the Home charger dose make difference but the frist one i got was off bp and it was useless just kept truning it slef off and not charging the car it took mouths for pb it admit i was no good and give me my money back keep up the good work
I'm not convinced of the idea, I'd like one but I'm not sure, although if it pisses off my neighbour cos I need a space its a win, but the arsing around I dunno
My ev came with a granny charger and a type 2 cable. It's not about safety, it's about cutting costs.
I like the electric vehicles but as you yourself pointed out lake of charger pointed area/type of fitting plug socket and you would have to slowly drive well below the speed limit of the roads and time it takes to charge at home or out on the road it no good at the moment for me at all until vastly better charger points/more around and available and faster/universal plug in are as standard and don't have the money afford one theses vehicles
Hi I would just like to correct you on the charging speed. The Zoe is capable of charging at a maximum of 22 KW 3 phase. There many 22 KW chargers out there (check Zap Map) so will charge from 0-80% in around 2 to 2 1/2 hours not & 7 to 8 hours!
maybe the car version but did you see the bottom part of the plug was blanked off on this basic van version? Its limited to slow charging. The new one might be better as the website now says 245 miles
@@furiousdriving Hi 22 Kw is fast AC charging so only needs the type 2 socket like the van you have, I have an older generation ZE 40 Zoe, that one can charge up to 43 Kw AC though I must say not many 43 Kw chargers around. A bit of shame really as AC fast/ rapid (22-43 Kw) chargers cost very little compared to the DC rapid chargers. In my view it would be far more sensible to have at least 8 fast/rapid AC chargers than 1 rapid DC charger that can only charge 1 or possibly 2 vehicles at the same time.
@@furiousdriving The bottom part is for 46kW DC CCS charging. The type 2 which that van did have has 3 phase 22kW AC charging.
Would hate to think how much it cost to leave it on charge for hours & hours throughout the day at home 😧
Totally defeats the object of having an EV having to park it away from home and then driving back in a petrol car