I’m glad I’m not the only one that felt a little underwhelmed by the animation and direction on this episode. always appreciate your insights 🙏 Tamagami 3 still on top 😤🗣️
@@tkafc77 I think the point of their comment though is to highlight one's own opinions being solidified, rather than being affected by others'. You start to notice cut corners that, while not deal breaking (like this episode), do compel you to raise questions. Like "why did they choose this approach" or "what limited them here"? Nothing major, but still enough to distract from your enjoyment of it sometimes.
Agreed, that goes with other occupations too. Coders, Chef's, etc. They will always be more critical because I feel they are aware of what went Into it(or what didn't) sometimes so in the end it may come off as dismissive of the overall reception but it's not. Ignorance is bliss as they say lmao 😂
Tell me about it, i major in 2-D animation and wondered why my professor didn't watch anime / animation and was told I'd understand later. Well, now I'm understanding lmaoo 😂😂
The thing about this episode is that it would have been a highlight in every other DB series, but Daima's quality has been so consistently great that even something above average for most other anime still feels 'meh' when compared to the other episodes
Better than most average animes but certainly not matching the big guns animes climaxs like My Hero Academia S1 ep 12 or Demon slayer climax or Jujutsu
Unironically I think the problem with Vegeta's fight, is that Vegeta's fighting style didn't lend itself that great to this setting. You know, a bunch of Ki blast spam and just flying with his arms crossed could probably be the reason why they alocated the more dynamic animation to Duu's fight which was a more hand to hand battle.
Vegeta’s fight is more DBZ, more flying and ki blasts, while Goku’s is more like traditional martial arts choreographed with his Nyoibo. It made sense, it’ll be weird for Vegeta to start doing Kung Fu pose
glad i wasn't the only one who felt that the episode had the makings of the best so far but didn't properly achieve its ambitions. it shocked me hard that duu got so much love while the sections with vegeta, the star of the episode, fell a little flat. all-in-all a good episode but a bit disappointing for vegeta fans to see him sidelined on the production front in his own episode like that
Yea they could’ve done more with him. But i feel they focused more on introducing his super saiyan 3 form rather than giving him a super quality fight which I think they’re saving down the road
We got SSJ3 Vegeta before GTA6 is crazy. Seeing Vegeta transform into his third Super Saiyan state, was the most exciting thing ever of Dragon Ball Daima, in my opinion.
i get what you mean, there definitely wasn’t as much animation insanity like goku v t3 but i still felt like vegeta was in his element the whole fight, it felt like his style and i think that’s on purpose
Idk why nobody else thought to make Vegetas SSJ3 look different to Gokus before this, his SSJ1 and SSJ2 aren't identical so ofc his SSJ3 wouldn't be too haha Nice to know I'm not the only one who thought episode 8 looked better, not that this episode looked bad at all (Vegeta SSJ3 being so nonchalant was great)
It's basically a nod to Toriyamas original SSJ3 design. His very first sketch shows Goku with a similar hairstyle, before he decided to make it longer, hang down and added the single bang. I kinda like that he gave it to Vegeta as a unique design.
@@Edelweiss1102 It works well for Kid Vegeta, but for adult Vegeta it'll just look stupid. To answer OP's question, yes he doesn't look identical to Goku in his other forms, that's because they don't have identical hair styles. The forms usually follow the same rules across all saiyans. Spikey hair for SSJ's, even spikier for SSJ2 and then longer hair for SSJ3. This is the only major departure so far.
Cannot overstate how much I love these breakdowns. In particular, the answers you provided for this episode's production shortcomings helped cleared up the confusion I had with this episode. However, I will say that the ending of this Vegeta fight was the coolest thing to happen in Daima. Parting the sea with a kick then flying through its own wave is literally the coolest thing I've ever seen
Majin duus fight had all of gomahs castle in the background and in the 2nd demon world its literally a world of water what do you want bruh In vegetas fight you can still see the planets in the background and shit even the kraken was seen chilling
@Babatunde_69420 Didn't wanna say everything was bad, its just noticable that there even is a part where it was lacking to begin with, because before its always absolutely amazing and as you mentioned for the majin duu fight for example its also great. The under water part where Vegeta fights in his SSJ3 form is for example where it lacks (as in the beginning of their fight, as you mention its p nice with the kraken in the background). It also shows in the storyboards shown by ajay, like the lightning couldve been done better, or some falling rocks, not simply plain green water etc. Ofc this is all is pretty nitpicky. Hope this clarifies what I meant
They are fighting over an ocean, so there is only so much you can expect from that. When he is underwater the backgrounds look great and crashing through a planet was incredible as well. I get the nitpick, but the quality is still absolutely present this episode.
Did you notice how the one-star ball artwork behind Tamagami 2 was broken while the two and three star balls were intact? Subtle atmospheric storytelling at work!
I wasn't exactly hyped up to the same level as episode 8s fight, but it was still pretty close! This entire episode just had me smiling from start to finish
Like no offense to those who liked the episode but I also felt like it was partially disappointing in comparison to episode 8. The episode is still very good, don’t get me wrong but I honestly expected better from Vegeta, especially in terms of the lighting and background art being used, they have the right ideas but maybe if they have more time, it would of been more polished and can’t say it was lukewarm but it was still fairly decent!!! 🤷🏻♀️🥲
I was also quite underwhelmed by this episode. Even the best portion of the Duu fight, while clearly better animated then Vegeta's, I still felt was kinda a let down relative to the Goku vs Tamagami 3. Perhaps that's not a fair comparsion given how much attention and hype that fight was given when Duu is the B plot of this episode, but then Vegeta's portion was even less impressive then Duu's.
this was an incredible episode, i think the execution of vegeta ssj3 was perfect, it's been a while since i found a dragon ball episode this epic! animation-wise this is still a great episode and easily the second best animated of daima in terms of action, it's clear that 8 is still superior. Even if the staff is practically identical, in 8 it started very strong with sasaki, then decent cuts with manabe and yuichi karasawa, to then close everything in a devastating way with otsuka and shida. in this episode instead it always remains on the same level, nothing is bad but at the same time nothing is something that leaves you speechless. also the direction was better in 8 tho. what can i say, this episode easily ranks as my second favorite after 8 obviously. I can't wait to finally see aya komaki (I hope also in the storyboard and not only in the direction like in ep.1) in the next episode, even if it doesn't seem to be an episode with much action, but I can't wait to see a talent like her in action. (I also think I recognized takumi yamamoto from the preview, who should return after episode 6.)
Yeah sure, sometimes the animation quality drops a little, but DBZ had the same problem. Not to mention that daima is definitely the best looking series of the franchise, period. All episodes look good😊
I mentioned it on Twitter but I’m so glad you went over this the same way I did because I was so confused as to why an episode with this staff fell flat the way it did
I believe that not everything needs to be magnificent or grand. Sometimes, having more simplistic elements, episodes, and events is what makes things perfect in their own way. The episode is divided between two action-packed sections, and works on this in a coherent and enjoyable way to watch. I think this approach is worth much more than one that would prioritize more details that would add elements that would potentially make the experience more claustrophobic than enjoyable.
People hate on Faulconer because he didnt actually compose the score, it was a bunch of other dudes and Faulconer just stole the credit by slapping his name on it
@@TheDAWinz That's not why most fans hate his music. They hate it because, among other things, "the score never shuts up", "it's cringe 90's style rock that doesn't fit the tone of the series", "too much synth whereas the original Japanese score was more classical" blah, blah, blah. That about sums it up.
7:20 was a nice nod because initially something did seem of with his hair style in the form of me. But since Vegeta’s hair is naturally upstanding even in his prior SSJ forms and the point about SSJ3 Gotenks being more wider, wilder and “punk” looking makes me appreciate it a bit more. Kinda wished he was able to debut it in adult form though, I think the animation while passable, but as you were saying it lacked dynamic posing or angles as the fight progressed. It rings back to how Toriyama was glad to be able to change Goku into his young adult body for the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai because longer limbs and muscle density can help with more striking postures.
Yeah, no, I felt the same way. I should have wanted to jump right back in and watch it again considering what kind of episode it is, but I just didn't care enough to.
Glad I'm not the only one who was a bit underwhelmed by the episode overall. It just felt like it didn't have the same impact as Goku vs Tamagami 3 did. That fight was well choreographed, and you could really tell the power progression from them testing each other out to Goku getting serious with SSJ and finally overwhelming the Tamagami with SSJ2. In contrast, the Hamano cut aside, Vegeta doesn't feel much different from base to SSJ2 until he goes SSJ3, and gives off the impression that they were just stalling until they got to the transformation. Similarly, the Duu vs Tamahami 1 fight feels kinda all over the place, with Duu switching between silly and overwhelming until Tamagami 1 just kinda gave up. I missed the clear and linear rise in intensity that the Goku fight had in these 2 fights. Obviously they were still very good, and we are complaining on a very high niveau, but for something that had the potential to probably be the best animated episode of Dragonball ever, it fell a bit flat. Good, but not quite DBS 130, DBZ 279 or Daima 8. That said, I really like Vegetas SSJ3 design. It's obviously a nod to Toriyama original SSJ3 design and it gives Vegeta something unique rather than just being Goku SSJ3 minus the hair strand. It's also very interesting that they brought back the SSJ3 unique aura effect, which has a higher pitch and moves faster than the regular SSJ aura effect. I think they only ever used it twice, in the episode where SSJ3 debuted and the one after, where Goku fights Fat Buu. I never would have dreamed that someone at Toei would remember it and take it off the shelf after like 30 years.
I feel like having Duu be the focus actually makes sense. They're setting up someone more powerful than the tamagamis. Given that we've already seen SS3 with Goku, I think putting the animation emphasis on setting up the next fight makes sense.
My thoughts on your thoughts is that it's not a fair comparison. Goku vs Tamagami 3 was only like a third of one episode, while Vegeta vs Tamagami 2 and Duu vs Tamagami 1 both took place over two episodes. Both Vegeta and Duu's fights are like 2-3 times longer than Goku's fight, so obviously the animation quality can't be as consistently high all throughout. But I think the highs of Vegeta and Duu's fights are on par with the highs of Goku's fight.
Well I’m glad I wasn’t alone in feeling a little disappointed with the animation and choreography not being as good as episode 8, although the rest of the episode was pretty hype and as you said hopefully that is a one off problem.
I think having to animate two different fights simultaneously (something that is rarely done in Dragon Ball in general), over two episodes, resulted in a perceived reduction in quality of animation and art direction. I think they really were ambitious with this and considering the staffing decisions that you highlighted, the result was a bit lacking compared to the quality seen in episode 8. Regardless, this was still better than the majority of episodes seen in all of the animes and even some of the best movie sequences. I want to appreciate the times this show has exceeded my expectations, as we may not get to experience this ever again 😥
I agree with your take, the episode was pretty great, but Vegeta vs Tamagami 2 felt lacking, not because it was bad, but because it didnt reach the same level as Goku vs Tamagami 3
Now I understand why my hype for Vegeta's fight felt somewhat misplaced as I was watching, especially in comparison to the Majin Duu fight. I certainly didn't *hate* what I watched, but it definitely didn't achieve the levels of hype I was expecting after comments before the episode aired. Nice to see Vegeta hit that SSJ3, though, and watching that transformation was the highlight of the episode for me. Just very nicely done.
I wasn’t expecting much to happen but even so, the episode felt underwhelming animation wise, I don’t dislike it by any means but a lot of people in the community were expecting more honestly!!! 🙄🤷🏻♀️
I’m so glad I wasn’t the only one who came out of this episode feeling bit puzzled by how this didn’t hit compared to an episode like episode 6 or 8 were. Shame cause I think the transformation for SSJ 3 was good, some action portions from early in the episode were great. But compared to last weeks I think I was hooked by that than this one sadly. Hopefully next episode delivers
You resumed perfectly my feeling watching this episode. Very good Duu part. Good Vegeta part, but not amazing I expected Tamagami 2 battle as beautiful as the first one, sadly. But I remain confident that one or more episodes will be better than 8.
The episode being so uneven was such a letdown. When it looked and moved great it was so good, but when it looked mediocre, it was just really sad. It's even more noticeable with this episode because the sounds effects were such a highlight with each form of Vegeta having very specific sounds differenciating them further. The humor and all of the story was spotless, but the animation was absolutely not up to par with Episode 8.
I’m in a very similar boat on this episode. There’s plenty that I enjoyed well enough, and SSJ3 Vegeta is hype, but there’s a lack of that top-tier execution that other fights got. Hopefully this is not indicative of the second half of the series and is not just a weird speed bump in what has been an otherwise stellar production.
After what we got with the first two arcs as DBS, I cant complain. The only thing that bothers me is knowing Vegeta doesnt use ss3 against beerus which doesnt make any sense.
It makes more sense that he didn’t transform into 3 for what it was a visceral reaction out of rage. SSJ3 requires focus and start up time, not used when enraged.
Was pretty happy to see the original SSJ3 design by Toriyama used like this, that being said I understand and clearly see the staff allocation being a little confusing, it really is a little out of place.
As awesome as it was to see Vegeta transform into Super Saiyan 3, I did feel a little underwhelmed after all was said and done. Episode 8 was, in my opinion, the best work of the series so far. Everything was paced properly, and the animation was almost always on point. I honestly was hoping Vegeta's hair moved some more but it just didn't lol.
aside from underwhelming animation and a hair design that's lazily unaffected by gravity, even the in-world reaction to vegeta's transformation felt pretty casual. moreover, the scene confirms goku's ignorance of vegeta's ss3 ability, implying vegeta obtained ss3 at some point and later sat at trunks' party with no visible fervor to challenge goku. out of character for sure. vegeta's character is given a surface level respect in this series, but lacking attention to detail. after decades of anticipation for this, i guess vegeta fans will just have to enjoy the beautiful garlic gun and the fact that he isn't being distastefully humiliated... yet lol
Honestly, at first I thought it was because I was coming off of a stomach flu when watching this episode which hindered my excitement for the episode but after seeing your breakdown, I think it makes a lot more sense, this episode was certainly still good even if I’m not a particularly a huge fan of the way super Saiyan three Vegeta looks, but yeah, those miss translations from the storyboard certainly did hinder the quality of the episode
@@Hedgehogboy-wx4ly I got spoiled from the internet even before the episode release, because Daima's japanese twitter account decided to spoil all of us
Yeah, I was laughing and enjoying the fact that I was watching SSJ3 Vegeta Canon.......in DAIMA of all things. But at the same time I was thinking why did the SSJ Goku fight look and felt way epic. I know why they did both Tamagami at the same time but this could have been better just as it own fight and/or episode, idk something was missing.
Nah it's fair to say this I felt similar even when I was losin my voice over the plot. The actual animation in the Vegeta section felt mostly barely above average of the usual Daima ep we've come to expect when there's nothin crazy. There R more low down scenes wit surprisingly excellent animation whether character actin or somethin else. I agree wit everythin u say here
I definitely felt a little underwhelmed given the episode's content but the strength of the staff on board is still undeniable. Karasawa's take on Dragon Ball action is still fantastic, I just wish the direction and framing backed it up this time. I feel like it was a big missed opportunity for Takahashi to do KA on Vegeta's portion given how well he and Karasawa handled a very similar scene in Broly, but oh well. It also didn't feel like the script gave certain moments the gravitas they needed, especially things like Vegeta's transformation and the defeat of the Tamagami's. However, it's nice to watch a DB episode not live up to expectations and still have so much going for it. It's not like this ruined the show or anything.
Even when Vegeta wins he’s still loses. I still think the episode was okay overall but it did feel strange how Majin Duu got more love than Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta.
Definitely knew I wasn’t the only one who thought the fight for Vegeta fell a bit short. They definitely did better for Goku vs Tamagami 3🙁 Vegeta doesn’t get as much lovr
2:39 Still anxious if episode 8 will be the only appearance of shida in this whole show, hopefully when the final battle comes, they can get the all star animators to cook and go all out
I mean, it's hard (for me) to take any critique on animation seriously... for the Broadcast version. I know Daima is an exception in many ways (originally planned for net release, massive pre-production, etc) but I feel it is difficult (but not unfair) to take any quality dips (especially mid/late series) at face value until I see what they touch up on in the Consumer version, which should be more or less the complete cut. Still appreciate the analysis, but I feel like most of your gripes will be alleviated (or at least smoothed over) in "post".
I very much doubt it. Toei do not do major episode overhauls on home releases typically, and the main issues were just a fundamental directorial failure than anything else. I think you will find the home video version is not meaningfully different.
The vegeta vs Tamagami was so flat, I thought Yamamuro was back. Apart from most of Majin Duu and some SSJ3. The idea were there but the execution felt flat, the culprit may be the storyboard, for example on the last scene where Vegeta punch the Tamagami. I think the original idea was for him to fly through a planet at high speed in a grandiose setpiece similar to Goku's fight but instead we have him ankwardly go through a celestial object with a very weird scale/perspective, is it a planet ? It's supposed to be so why is it drawn smaller than the Tamagami ? If it's not supposed to be a planet, why does the Tamagami fly through it without leaving debris or hole if it is truly smaller than him ? Why does it disappear after the fight ? So much contradicting visuals.
It's honestly a super damn shame that Majin Duu's animation vs Tamagami 1 looked way better than Vegeta's portion which really boggles my mind Some segments are great don't get me wrong but it's strange how much worse it looks compared to Tamagami 3 vs Goku It was sitting in the back of my mind how "Man this episode just doesnt look as good?" while watching the episode and I'm glad I'm not alone in this regard
it was so odd watching this for the first time and seeing how much better the duu fight was. not that vegeta's fight wasn't good, it just wasn't as interesting
Glad to see I wasn’t the only one who was left feeling a bit underwhelmed with this episode in terms on animation and storyboarding quality. Was it good? Yeah sure… Was it Goku vs Tamagami 3 levels of perfection? Hell no, and that’s disappointing considering how they just introduced what is possibly the most fan service form since Beast Gohan.
I think this is a little nitpicky. For an episode that's nearly an entire 20 minutes of action it was great. The Goku vs tamagami fight was only like a minute or two. There were a few shots in this episode that were dull like just seeing the Tamagami just flying shooting ki blast but when there was actual action I thought it was awesome and when Vegeta went ss3 it was awesome and I thought it was the best part of the episode. It's like you're just expecting movie level animation the entire series and I don't think that's feasible on an episode entirely filled with action. This still looked better than majority of Super's best episodes and the art was on point. I dont think a few dissapointing shots took away from the overall enjoyment of the episode because even those disappointing shots were still ok. Like after what i suffered through some episodes of Super this is godsend. Easily one of my favorite episodes thus far.
I totally believe I understand your concern for the staff schedule. But I would say it’s possible the regulars should be on regulars so the show feels cohesive. 100% this episode wasn’t as good animation as we’re used to in the other big cool fights. It was still better then super on average 😂
Was somewhat underwhelmed by this episode too, the animation is there, i just think the direction lacks impact alot of the time, cant put my finger on it. I also kinda feel that if this is supposed to take place before battle of gods, in which vegeta did not show any interest in going super saiyan 3, there needed to be alot more convincing as to why he chooses to do it now...give vegeta a bit more struggle and motivation, we get so little from him this episode when it comes to character.
I’m glad I’m not the only one that felt a little underwhelmed by the animation and direction on this episode. always appreciate your insights 🙏 Tamagami 3 still on top 😤🗣️
Yeah. I would never say it's bad. But man Tamagami 3 was so good in pacing and animation.
🤡
Yes it was underwhelming...again
Goku vs Tamagami 3 fight was far superior in terms of animation, but Vegeta vs Tamagami 2 had far more hype and weight while still looking good.
@Babatunde_69420you think u did something huh?
The irony of being an animation fan is the more you know about animation the less you can enjoy it sometimes.
I was blissfully unaware of bad animation watching dbz as kid, now I can’t unsee it lol blessing and a curse 😅
@@tkafc77 I think the point of their comment though is to highlight one's own opinions being solidified, rather than being affected by others'. You start to notice cut corners that, while not deal breaking (like this episode), do compel you to raise questions. Like "why did they choose this approach" or "what limited them here"? Nothing major, but still enough to distract from your enjoyment of it sometimes.
Agreed, that goes with other occupations too. Coders, Chef's, etc. They will always be more critical because I feel they are aware of what went Into it(or what didn't) sometimes so in the end it may come off as dismissive of the overall reception but it's not. Ignorance is bliss as they say lmao 😂
@@tkafc77lol that’s just your opinion though. See what I did there
Tell me about it, i major in 2-D animation and wondered why my professor didn't watch anime / animation and was told I'd understand later. Well, now I'm understanding lmaoo 😂😂
Bouncy blobby man vs. spiky banana boy... I can understand the animators wanting to focus more on Duu, lol.
I was thinking the same thing LOL
Yup😅
Souljaboy enters the chat.
-....HUH?!
The thing about this episode is that it would have been a highlight in every other DB series, but Daima's quality has been so consistently great that even something above average for most other anime still feels 'meh' when compared to the other episodes
Better than most average animes but certainly not matching the big guns animes climaxs like My Hero Academia S1 ep 12 or Demon slayer climax or Jujutsu
@Shivam-vr6eh absolutely. I think the first Tamagami fight is the equivalent of those fights (at least for now)
Unironically I think the problem with Vegeta's fight, is that Vegeta's fighting style didn't lend itself that great to this setting. You know, a bunch of Ki blast spam and just flying with his arms crossed could probably be the reason why they alocated the more dynamic animation to Duu's fight which was a more hand to hand battle.
Also think his kid model isn't great, he looks like a lollipop headed teen girl in yoga leggings.
Vegeta’s fight is more DBZ, more flying and ki blasts, while Goku’s is more like traditional martial arts choreographed with his Nyoibo. It made sense, it’ll be weird for Vegeta to start doing Kung Fu pose
It's not about the kung fu poses though
I was blown away by the water tbh
glad i wasn't the only one who felt that the episode had the makings of the best so far but didn't properly achieve its ambitions. it shocked me hard that duu got so much love while the sections with vegeta, the star of the episode, fell a little flat. all-in-all a good episode but a bit disappointing for vegeta fans to see him sidelined on the production front in his own episode like that
Yea they could’ve done more with him. But i feel they focused more on introducing his super saiyan 3 form rather than giving him a super quality fight which I think they’re saving down the road
@@superexclusive452 tbh i don't think SSJ3 will appear again
We got SSJ3 Vegeta before GTA6 is crazy. Seeing Vegeta transform into his third Super Saiyan state, was the most exciting thing ever of Dragon Ball Daima, in my opinion.
We're gonna get ssj5 before elder scrolls 6 lmao
I'm a bit split if it's called Super Saiyan 2.5 or Super Saiyan 3.
I mean we already got SSJ3 Vegeta in Raging Blast 2.
I still really enjoy Goku vs Tamagami 3 fight though!! 💯
i get what you mean, there definitely wasn’t as much animation insanity like goku v t3 but i still felt like vegeta was in his element the whole fight, it felt like his style and i think that’s on purpose
Truthfully I am nervous for what the rest of the series is going to look like. I really do hope we get more episode 8s.
ye the final battle will be really well animated
Okay glad it wasn’t just me who expected better animation for Vegeta’s portion 😅
8:10 That's Some Raw AF Shit
Mini SsJ 3 Vegeta is just a humanoid Sonic character and I love it
it's definitely the eyes and the body
Idk why nobody else thought to make Vegetas SSJ3 look different to Gokus before this, his SSJ1 and SSJ2 aren't identical so ofc his SSJ3 wouldn't be too haha
Nice to know I'm not the only one who thought episode 8 looked better, not that this episode looked bad at all (Vegeta SSJ3 being so nonchalant was great)
reminded me more of Beast Gohan's hair lol
It's basically a nod to Toriyamas original SSJ3 design. His very first sketch shows Goku with a similar hairstyle, before he decided to make it longer, hang down and added the single bang. I kinda like that he gave it to Vegeta as a unique design.
@@Edelweiss1102 that's awesome. even more tribute paid to Toriyama himself. thanks for sharing
@@Edelweiss1102 It works well for Kid Vegeta, but for adult Vegeta it'll just look stupid.
To answer OP's question, yes he doesn't look identical to Goku in his other forms, that's because they don't have identical hair styles. The forms usually follow the same rules across all saiyans. Spikey hair for SSJ's, even spikier for SSJ2 and then longer hair for SSJ3. This is the only major departure so far.
SSJ2 just spikes up hair. SSJ3 is meant to have the same long hairstyle, not that I have a problem with this.
Cannot overstate how much I love these breakdowns. In particular, the answers you provided for this episode's production shortcomings helped cleared up the confusion I had with this episode. However, I will say that the ending of this Vegeta fight was the coolest thing to happen in Daima. Parting the sea with a kick then flying through its own wave is literally the coolest thing I've ever seen
All i could think while watching this one was: "Thank you, Toriyama sama"
I think this is the first time the background art sincerly disappoints. Great breakdown again!
Majin duus fight had all of gomahs castle in the background and in the 2nd demon world its literally a world of water what do you want bruh
In vegetas fight you can still see the planets in the background and shit even the kraken was seen chilling
@Babatunde_69420 Didn't wanna say everything was bad, its just noticable that there even is a part where it was lacking to begin with, because before its always absolutely amazing and as you mentioned for the majin duu fight for example its also great. The under water part where Vegeta fights in his SSJ3 form is for example where it lacks (as in the beginning of their fight, as you mention its p nice with the kraken in the background). It also shows in the storyboards shown by ajay, like the lightning couldve been done better, or some falling rocks, not simply plain green water etc. Ofc this is all is pretty nitpicky. Hope this clarifies what I meant
They are fighting over an ocean, so there is only so much you can expect from that. When he is underwater the backgrounds look great and crashing through a planet was incredible as well.
I get the nitpick, but the quality is still absolutely present this episode.
@@savaget2058 For sure and wasn't trying to deny that
Did you notice how the one-star ball artwork behind Tamagami 2 was broken while the two and three star balls were intact? Subtle atmospheric storytelling at work!
I wasn't exactly hyped up to the same level as episode 8s fight, but it was still pretty close! This entire episode just had me smiling from start to finish
Yeah I agree, episode 8 looks better imo
Like no offense to those who liked the episode but I also felt like it was partially disappointing in comparison to episode 8.
The episode is still very good, don’t get me wrong but I honestly expected better from Vegeta, especially in terms of the lighting and background art being used, they have the right ideas but maybe if they have more time, it would of been more polished and can’t say it was lukewarm but it was still fairly decent!!!
🤷🏻♀️🥲
I was also quite underwhelmed by this episode. Even the best portion of the Duu fight, while clearly better animated then Vegeta's, I still felt was kinda a let down relative to the Goku vs Tamagami 3. Perhaps that's not a fair comparsion given how much attention and hype that fight was given when Duu is the B plot of this episode, but then Vegeta's portion was even less impressive then Duu's.
this was an incredible episode, i think the execution of vegeta ssj3 was perfect, it's been a while since i found a dragon ball episode this epic!
animation-wise this is still a great episode and easily the second best animated of daima in terms of action, it's clear that 8 is still superior.
Even if the staff is practically identical, in 8 it started very strong with sasaki, then decent cuts with manabe and yuichi karasawa, to then close everything in a devastating way with otsuka and shida. in this episode instead it always remains on the same level, nothing is bad but at the same time nothing is something that leaves you speechless.
also the direction was better in 8 tho.
what can i say, this episode easily ranks as my second favorite after 8 obviously.
I can't wait to finally see aya komaki (I hope also in the storyboard and not only in the direction like in ep.1) in the next episode, even if it doesn't seem to be an episode with much action, but I can't wait to see a talent like her in action. (I also think I recognized takumi yamamoto from the preview, who should return after episode 6.)
Yeah sure, sometimes the animation quality drops a little, but DBZ had the same problem.
Not to mention that daima is definitely the best looking series of the franchise, period.
All episodes look good😊
If I have to be more objective, 8 is still the best episode, but on a personal level this one takes the crown
I mentioned it on Twitter but I’m so glad you went over this the same way I did because I was so confused as to why an episode with this staff fell flat the way it did
@@tkafc77in your opinion tho.
This was such a sick ass fight.
I believe that not everything needs to be magnificent or grand. Sometimes, having more simplistic elements, episodes, and events is what makes things perfect in their own way. The episode is divided between two action-packed sections, and works on this in a coherent and enjoyable way to watch. I think this approach is worth much more than one that would prioritize more details that would add elements that would potentially make the experience more claustrophobic than enjoyable.
Ironic how you love to shit on the Bruce Faulconer score but used a Faulconer track in the Ken Otsuka segment lol
Even as a hater, I know that Vegeta theme is a banger 😌 SSJ3 theme goes hard too
Because some of Faulconer's tracks are so fucking good even people with a hate boner have to admit they are fire.
People hate on Faulconer because he didnt actually compose the score, it was a bunch of other dudes and Faulconer just stole the credit by slapping his name on it
@@TheDAWinz That's not why most fans hate his music. They hate it because, among other things, "the score never shuts up", "it's cringe 90's style rock that doesn't fit the tone of the series", "too much synth whereas the original Japanese score was more classical" blah, blah, blah. That about sums it up.
@@AnimeAjayDoesn't Vegeta have many wins? 😂
I thought I was the only one a bit underwhelmed by this week's episode, I'm glad I'm not. Your insights have been super great, thank you Ajay!
His kick that split the sea open was such a creative and badass choice for vegeta lol
7:20 was a nice nod because initially something did seem of with his hair style in the form of me. But since Vegeta’s hair is naturally upstanding even in his prior SSJ forms and the point about SSJ3 Gotenks being more wider, wilder and “punk” looking makes me appreciate it a bit more.
Kinda wished he was able to debut it in adult form though, I think the animation while passable, but as you were saying it lacked dynamic posing or angles as the fight progressed. It rings back to how Toriyama was glad to be able to change Goku into his young adult body for the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai because longer limbs and muscle density can help with more striking postures.
daima has made the tiny bodies work time and time again, I really think the blame is on this episodes team for fumbling the bag.
Nah you’re good Ajay, im probably one of the biggest Vegeta fans, seeing him get a real W got me tearing up lol 😅
I'm not really sure why you guys act like he doesn't have many. 😂
Yeah, no, I felt the same way. I should have wanted to jump right back in and watch it again considering what kind of episode it is, but I just didn't care enough to.
Love the review as always! Where did you find the pictures of the storyboard? 👀 I love seeing those!
Glad I'm not the only one who was a bit underwhelmed by the episode overall. It just felt like it didn't have the same impact as Goku vs Tamagami 3 did. That fight was well choreographed, and you could really tell the power progression from them testing each other out to Goku getting serious with SSJ and finally overwhelming the Tamagami with SSJ2. In contrast, the Hamano cut aside, Vegeta doesn't feel much different from base to SSJ2 until he goes SSJ3, and gives off the impression that they were just stalling until they got to the transformation. Similarly, the Duu vs Tamahami 1 fight feels kinda all over the place, with Duu switching between silly and overwhelming until Tamagami 1 just kinda gave up. I missed the clear and linear rise in intensity that the Goku fight had in these 2 fights. Obviously they were still very good, and we are complaining on a very high niveau, but for something that had the potential to probably be the best animated episode of Dragonball ever, it fell a bit flat. Good, but not quite DBS 130, DBZ 279 or Daima 8.
That said, I really like Vegetas SSJ3 design. It's obviously a nod to Toriyama original SSJ3 design and it gives Vegeta something unique rather than just being Goku SSJ3 minus the hair strand. It's also very interesting that they brought back the SSJ3 unique aura effect, which has a higher pitch and moves faster than the regular SSJ aura effect. I think they only ever used it twice, in the episode where SSJ3 debuted and the one after, where Goku fights Fat Buu. I never would have dreamed that someone at Toei would remember it and take it off the shelf after like 30 years.
Just curious but who drew the Dragon Ball segment in the opening moments of the Super heroes movie
Chikashi Kubota
I was waiting for your video since the episode dropped, because this episode looked amazing
From the way you hyped it up last week i was also expecting a lot more from this episode. Hopefully the rest lives up
I feel like having Duu be the focus actually makes sense. They're setting up someone more powerful than the tamagamis. Given that we've already seen SS3 with Goku, I think putting the animation emphasis on setting up the next fight makes sense.
It was supposed to be the best episode on animation, the dubut of a new transformation, they dropped the ball on this one.
Question, but do you think there will be another fight that'll be as well done as episode 8 (Goku vs Tamagami)??
My thoughts on your thoughts is that it's not a fair comparison. Goku vs Tamagami 3 was only like a third of one episode, while Vegeta vs Tamagami 2 and Duu vs Tamagami 1 both took place over two episodes. Both Vegeta and Duu's fights are like 2-3 times longer than Goku's fight, so obviously the animation quality can't be as consistently high all throughout. But I think the highs of Vegeta and Duu's fights are on par with the highs of Goku's fight.
😢 my boy got a win but .... Look what it took.
Well I’m glad I wasn’t alone in feeling a little disappointed with the animation and choreography not being as good as episode 8, although the rest of the episode was pretty hype and as you said hopefully that is a one off problem.
I think having to animate two different fights simultaneously (something that is rarely done in Dragon Ball in general), over two episodes, resulted in a perceived reduction in quality of animation and art direction. I think they really were ambitious with this and considering the staffing decisions that you highlighted, the result was a bit lacking compared to the quality seen in episode 8.
Regardless, this was still better than the majority of episodes seen in all of the animes and even some of the best movie sequences. I want to appreciate the times this show has exceeded my expectations, as we may not get to experience this ever again 😥
We gonna get Yuya Takahashi goodness at the end of the series i hope
Lost Odyssey soundtrack in the background, nice.
Being an animation fan has it's merits and demerits. I did enjoy this episode regardless.
I agree with your take, the episode was pretty great, but Vegeta vs Tamagami 2 felt lacking, not because it was bad, but because it didnt reach the same level as Goku vs Tamagami 3
Where did you get the info of Toriyama changing the hair depending on who takes the transformation?
Now I understand why my hype for Vegeta's fight felt somewhat misplaced as I was watching, especially in comparison to the Majin Duu fight. I certainly didn't *hate* what I watched, but it definitely didn't achieve the levels of hype I was expecting after comments before the episode aired. Nice to see Vegeta hit that SSJ3, though, and watching that transformation was the highlight of the episode for me. Just very nicely done.
I wasn’t expecting much to happen but even so, the episode felt underwhelming animation wise, I don’t dislike it by any means but a lot of people in the community were expecting more honestly!!! 🙄🤷🏻♀️
I’m so glad I wasn’t the only one who came out of this episode feeling bit puzzled by how this didn’t hit compared to an episode like episode 6 or 8 were.
Shame cause I think the transformation for SSJ 3 was good, some action portions from early in the episode were great. But compared to last weeks I think I was hooked by that than this one sadly. Hopefully next episode delivers
You resumed perfectly my feeling watching this episode.
Very good Duu part.
Good Vegeta part, but not amazing
I expected Tamagami 2 battle as beautiful as the first one, sadly.
But I remain confident that one or more episodes will be better than 8.
It was a one sided fight that's why it feels little flat but the animation was great. Wait till it gets serious
lol cope
The episode being so uneven was such a letdown. When it looked and moved great it was so good, but when it looked mediocre, it was just really sad. It's even more noticeable with this episode because the sounds effects were such a highlight with each form of Vegeta having very specific sounds differenciating them further. The humor and all of the story was spotless, but the animation was absolutely not up to par with Episode 8.
I have an opinion on this entire video now
Still waiting for THE strong episode 🙏🙏
I’m in a very similar boat on this episode. There’s plenty that I enjoyed well enough, and SSJ3 Vegeta is hype, but there’s a lack of that top-tier execution that other fights got. Hopefully this is not indicative of the second half of the series and is not just a weird speed bump in what has been an otherwise stellar production.
Man, now you have made me worried about some production meltdown in the upcoming episodes...
I appreciate your honest thoughts, though 🙏
Ayyyyy I was waiting for this!!!!
Anime AyyyyyyyJay
@SkyZer0 Tell em😂
After what we got with the first two arcs as DBS, I cant complain. The only thing that bothers me is knowing Vegeta doesnt use ss3 against beerus which doesnt make any sense.
You realize that now that my Bulma situation doesn't make any sense because why didn't he term 3 then😂
It makes more sense that he didn’t transform into 3 for what it was a visceral reaction out of rage. SSJ3 requires focus and start up time, not used when enraged.
Was pretty happy to see the original SSJ3 design by Toriyama used like this, that being said I understand and clearly see the staff allocation being a little confusing, it really is a little out of place.
i hate it when creators abandon choreography and rely on fast camera movements.
Super Butoden 2 Piccolo theme song jumpscare
Totally agree with u 100%
As awesome as it was to see Vegeta transform into Super Saiyan 3, I did feel a little underwhelmed after all was said and done. Episode 8 was, in my opinion, the best work of the series so far. Everything was paced properly, and the animation was almost always on point. I honestly was hoping Vegeta's hair moved some more but it just didn't lol.
aside from underwhelming animation and a hair design that's lazily unaffected by gravity, even the in-world reaction to vegeta's transformation felt pretty casual. moreover, the scene confirms goku's ignorance of vegeta's ss3 ability, implying vegeta obtained ss3 at some point and later sat at trunks' party with no visible fervor to challenge goku. out of character for sure. vegeta's character is given a surface level respect in this series, but lacking attention to detail. after decades of anticipation for this, i guess vegeta fans will just have to enjoy the beautiful garlic gun and the fact that he isn't being distastefully humiliated... yet lol
Finally ssj3 Vegeta is cannon 😭🙏
It was perfect for me.
Honestly, at first I thought it was because I was coming off of a stomach flu when watching this episode which hindered my excitement for the episode but after seeing your breakdown, I think it makes a lot more sense, this episode was certainly still good even if I’m not a particularly a huge fan of the way super Saiyan three Vegeta looks, but yeah, those miss translations from the storyboard certainly did hinder the quality of the episode
Oh also, Hulu practically spoiling the reveal of super Saiyan three Vegeta in the thumbnail kind of sucked as well
@@Hedgehogboy-wx4ly I got spoiled from the internet even before the episode release, because Daima's japanese twitter account decided to spoil all of us
Yeah, I was laughing and enjoying the fact that I was watching SSJ3 Vegeta Canon.......in DAIMA of all things. But at the same time I was thinking why did the SSJ Goku fight look and felt way epic. I know why they did both Tamagami at the same time but this could have been better just as it own fight and/or episode, idk something was missing.
I need yuya takahashi, ryo onishi, and chikashi kubota on the next big fight
And Yamamuro, since he's doing well
Nah it's fair to say this I felt similar even when I was losin my voice over the plot. The actual animation in the Vegeta section felt mostly barely above average of the usual Daima ep we've come to expect when there's nothin crazy. There R more low down scenes wit surprisingly excellent animation whether character actin or somethin else. I agree wit everythin u say here
I definitely felt a little underwhelmed given the episode's content but the strength of the staff on board is still undeniable. Karasawa's take on Dragon Ball action is still fantastic, I just wish the direction and framing backed it up this time.
I feel like it was a big missed opportunity for Takahashi to do KA on Vegeta's portion given how well he and Karasawa handled a very similar scene in Broly, but oh well.
It also didn't feel like the script gave certain moments the gravitas they needed, especially things like Vegeta's transformation and the defeat of the Tamagami's.
However, it's nice to watch a DB episode not live up to expectations and still have so much going for it. It's not like this ruined the show or anything.
It really felt stiff most of the time and vegeta's long hair wasn't moving at all in certain areas, it was weird
Never have I waited so hard for one of your vids lmao
because of how the animation and art models were reminiscent of DBS? Lmao
@SkyZer0 Nah, the consistency is actually making it a bit harder for me to figure out who's who, and I had to know who animated the transformation
@@dexterdugarjr.3217 oh okay
I have to do it sorry,
You know what else is more Massive?
The animation is God mode 💯 the fight they eyes
Even when Vegeta wins he’s still loses. I still think the episode was okay overall but it did feel strange how Majin Duu got more love than Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta.
I agree wholeheartedly. I thought the Duu fight was much more creative and well choreographed.
Definitely knew I wasn’t the only one who thought the fight for Vegeta fell a bit short. They definitely did better for Goku vs Tamagami 3🙁 Vegeta doesn’t get as much lovr
Yeah, this episode didn’t feel as strong for some reason, and I think you hit the nail on the head with your reasoning
It should have been way better, doesn't even come close to Goku vs Tmagami 3.
2:39 Still anxious if episode 8 will be the only appearance of shida in this whole show, hopefully when the final battle comes, they can get the all star animators to cook and go all out
I think you are sadly mistaken the series will get a part too this is toriyamas vison it will live on an of course be over super 👌
I miss masaki sato...
I mean, it's hard (for me) to take any critique on animation seriously... for the Broadcast version.
I know Daima is an exception in many ways (originally planned for net release, massive pre-production, etc) but I feel it is difficult (but not unfair) to take any quality dips (especially mid/late series) at face value until I see what they touch up on in the Consumer version, which should be more or less the complete cut.
Still appreciate the analysis, but I feel like most of your gripes will be alleviated (or at least smoothed over) in "post".
I very much doubt it. Toei do not do major episode overhauls on home releases typically, and the main issues were just a fundamental directorial failure than anything else. I think you will find the home video version is not meaningfully different.
@@AnimeAjayToei will no doubt deliver the much anticipated green tint cut for the home release
Something about that Goku vs Tamagami 3 fight still reigns superior in terms of animation and fighting choreography.
The vegeta vs Tamagami was so flat, I thought Yamamuro was back. Apart from most of Majin Duu and some SSJ3.
The idea were there but the execution felt flat, the culprit may be the storyboard, for example on the last scene where Vegeta punch the Tamagami.
I think the original idea was for him to fly through a planet at high speed in a grandiose setpiece similar to Goku's fight but instead we have him ankwardly go through a celestial object with a very weird scale/perspective, is it a planet ? It's supposed to be so why is it drawn smaller than the Tamagami ? If it's not supposed to be a planet, why does the Tamagami fly through it without leaving debris or hole if it is truly smaller than him ? Why does it disappear after the fight ? So much contradicting visuals.
It's honestly a super damn shame that Majin Duu's animation vs Tamagami 1 looked way better than Vegeta's portion which really boggles my mind
Some segments are great don't get me wrong but it's strange how much worse it looks compared to Tamagami 3 vs Goku
It was sitting in the back of my mind how "Man this episode just doesnt look as good?" while watching the episode and I'm glad I'm not alone in this regard
But🍑
it was so odd watching this for the first time and seeing how much better the duu fight was. not that vegeta's fight wasn't good, it just wasn't as interesting
I felt the same this episode didn't had good animation as I felt in goku vs tamagami and even previous had good animation.
Glad to see I wasn’t the only one who was left feeling a bit underwhelmed with this episode in terms on animation and storyboarding quality.
Was it good? Yeah sure…
Was it Goku vs Tamagami 3 levels of perfection? Hell no, and that’s disappointing considering how they just introduced what is possibly the most fan service form since Beast Gohan.
I think this is a little nitpicky. For an episode that's nearly an entire 20 minutes of action it was great. The Goku vs tamagami fight was only like a minute or two. There were a few shots in this episode that were dull like just seeing the Tamagami just flying shooting ki blast but when there was actual action I thought it was awesome and when Vegeta went ss3 it was awesome and I thought it was the best part of the episode. It's like you're just expecting movie level animation the entire series and I don't think that's feasible on an episode entirely filled with action. This still looked better than majority of Super's best episodes and the art was on point. I dont think a few dissapointing shots took away from the overall enjoyment of the episode because even those disappointing shots were still ok. Like after what i suffered through some episodes of Super this is godsend. Easily one of my favorite episodes thus far.
I totally believe I understand your concern for the staff schedule. But I would say it’s possible the regulars should be on regulars so the show feels cohesive. 100% this episode wasn’t as good animation as we’re used to in the other big cool fights. It was still better then super on average 😂
Where is naoki tate 🥺
Sadly, he isn't on Daima.
@Edelweiss1102 My day is ruined
Was somewhat underwhelmed by this episode too, the animation is there, i just think the direction lacks impact alot of the time, cant put my finger on it. I also kinda feel that if this is supposed to take place before battle of gods, in which vegeta did not show any interest in going super saiyan 3, there needed to be alot more convincing as to why he chooses to do it now...give vegeta a bit more struggle and motivation, we get so little from him this episode when it comes to character.