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NEW PSXX Circuit Breaker-Protect Your Model Railroad (248)
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- Опубликовано: 14 авг 2024
- In the past I've talked about the DCC Specialties PSX circuit breaker and shown how I use it on the Piedmont Southern. However, Larry Maier has redesigned the PSX into the PSXX with new features that make it even easier to user and with lots of new functionality. So let's take a look at the new version and it's new features.
Hi Larry, I like your tutorial style. I'm in the UK so some of the products you speak about I'm unlikely to buy.
The important thing is that by listening to you I get a better understanding of the systems and how to use similar products over here.
I also learn different ways of doing things and ideas to improve on what I want to do. Don't change your format your doing just great.
Kind regards, Phil B. Sussex UK.
I really liked the beginning segment. I have 5 locomotives to install sound decoders in so I'll pay attention to the wattage output before I buy the speakers. Thanks Larry.
Hi Larry. Thank you for your brilliant presentation style. You inspired me and continue to do so. Best regards John Tennant from Braintree in the UK.
You can add terminal strips to the board.I have LEDs connected to these and when I get a short I get a visual also. This helps to know you have a short and where because the power supply buzzer doesn't work because main or booster doesn't trip. I also add the buzzer to the board ,see white circle?, So I get a sound indicator along with visual . Sometimes you overload the circuit by trying to turn up two 3 engine sound lashups at the same time. Sometime you derail a car in the back of layout and you don't realize it and your wondering why engines stoped running. I like the set up anyway.
Would love to see how you did this!
@@TamarackFilmCo you can get all terminal blocks, and buzzer from Tony's exchange. The booklet that came with psxx shows how to do it.
I have a couple of the PSX boards. I have a Digitrax Command Station and two PM42s. I had an around the room shelf layout for my On30 layout at that time. I was creating Power Management blocks using the PM42s. On the far side of the room from the Command Station and PM42s, I thought I would use a PSX installed under the shelf over there to provide some faster protection. Command Station to PM42 through a 30 foot long buss to the PSX then to the tracks. There were some Dual Frog Juicers over there. It powered up just fine, no issues. As soon as I put my Bachmann 0-4-2 DCC with Sound on the tracks over there, the PSX board would trip and so did the PM42 on the other side of the room. Pull the 0-4-2 off and it all reset. I begin to think there was an issue with the 0-4-2. I contact Digitrax about the setup. Their response was, "Why would you use the PSX circuit breaker down line from the PM42 circuit breaker?" So, I bypassed the PSX board and it worked just fine with the 0-4-2. I have since redesigned the layout a couple times. I am now on the third iteration of that layout. The PSX boards are sitting in a drawer. Thoughts?
My question is the same as you got from Digitrax, why use both, they do essentially the same thing. Use the PM42s for a couple of blocks and the PSX for the other. As I said in the video the Frog Juicers trip at about the same speed as the PSX so that could be why you got the issue you described. I had to change the trip speed on mine to slow them down a bit so the Frog Juicer tripped before the PSX which in turn tripped before the command station. The PM42 is slower than the PSX and the Frog Juicers it uses relays whereas the other two are solid state devices.
Great video as usual Larry, always informative and useful
Thanks Larry. It's another good review and informative as always.
Great video.
One thing that was not mentioned in ref to the sound board chip and the sugar cube speaker is the Ohm rating. Placing the speakers in series doubles the Ohm rating of the two speakers if they are the same Ohm rating. This in turn reduces the current out of the chip and the actual power output.
Not knowing the design of the system, one should consult the manufacturer of each product to make sure they match the design specs for the products being used.
Thanks again for another great video.
The sugar cube speakers I have seen are all rated at about 8 ohms and when connected in series as I suggested gives you 16 ohms. Soundtraxx is now recommending in their in installation manuals that speakers of less than 8 ohms not be used with their decoders which I interpret to include parallel wiring, which would result in 4 ohms, should not be done.
@@TheDCCGuy I guess one could just toss in a 10 ohm resistor in series with the speaker to snip the problem in the bud?
thank you for sharing great detailed video
from Australia
I've been looking for some CB protection for my layout for some time now. So I purchased the PSXX after watching your video. I'm running an NCE 5 amp Command Station on my modest layout. So I simply separated the layout into two districts (East/West) and wired these up. So far everything seems to be happy.
Yes, these are a lot easier to install and use than the older PSX devices.
@@TheDCCGuy I should follow up regarding the install of these because I spoke too soon. The issue I have is that the Frog Juicers seem to be tripping the CB. So after a few minutes of running, eventually the CB detect the polarity flip of the frog and see it as a short. Then the FJ tries to re-correct, but the CB keeps seeing it as a short and this cycle keeps repeating until I pull the engine back off the frog. I've done some digging on line and of the suggestions given were 1) hard wire the frogs to the single pole switch on the tortoises. 2) use an "undocumented" fix by changing a CV on the breaker to delay their reaction at detecting the juicers changing the polarity at the frog which according to others is a hit and miss and does not always work. 3) Put the FJ's on their own separate buss so that the two systems don't see each other. Since the FJ's have their own CB protection they should be fine on their own and still do their thing while the PSXX can still go about their job of protecting the command station from other shorts. I'm leaning towards option three, because I love the FJ's and literally don't want to go back and add three additional wires to every tortoise, or mess around with a fix that the manufacturer doesn't list as a recommended solution. Thoughts?
@@shanestrains4724 If you bought the PSXX and not the PSX then this should not be happening. I asked Larry Maier the designer of these about the potential for this to occur and he told me he had designed these to avoid the problem. So if you have a PSXX then you need to contact him at larry@tonystrains.com .
@@TheDCCGuy I will contact Larry at Tony's. Thanks for the prompt reply. 🙂👍
Thanks for covering the 2 amp decoder with a 1 amp sugar cube speaker problem. I have been trying to use 2 amp decoders because I have numerous old 90s diesel locomotives and I was just trying to be safe with these older motors. The problem is these older types of diesel have very limited space and the sugar cube type speaker is about all that will fit. Adding to that problem is I have found no 2 amp sugar cube speakers, They are all 1 amp or less and any 2 amp speaker is a good bit larger so my solution has been to use two speakers wherever I can. Adding to my problem is I like to use keep-alives (SoundTraxx current keepers) in my locos too and it is extremely difficult to fit all this in these older types of diesel. As far as volume is concerned, I like the horns and bells loud enough to be heard distinctly. The motor sound can be lower and I don't care much about any other sounds. I am older and getting a bit hard of hearing so what is good for me might be too loud for others.
I wasn’t talking about the amperage of the decoders, I said 2WATT, there’s a difference.
@@TheDCCGuy And my problem was blowing up 2 amp decoders using 1 watt speakers. sorry about that. Yes, I know there's a difference but apparently, there is no problem using 1 watt speakers on 1 amp decoders, while using them on 2 amp decoders may blow up the decoder. That was my point. And there are no 2 watt sugar cube speakers.
Thank you Larry, I enjoyed this video.
Good info Larry. I need a circuit breaker for my small 6 X 12 layout
They sell them in 1, 2, and 3 circut boards.
Going to get at least one
Thanks for your reply. I have another question. Can I for now connect my New TCS CS 105 and B 106 like this until I later buy more PSXX circuit breakers.
5 Amp 6 Amp
CS105 ====. B106
| |
PSXX PSXX. 1 set to 4 amp 1 to 5
| |
Track Track
Hi, Psxx question. I want to add some Psxx hardware to my layout currently I run Mth DCS and I’m switching to TcS dcc. My current wiring goes from the mth power supply in a clump to 5 Mth terminal strips and then they go to individual blocks on the track including multiple isolated blocks so I can turn off engine house tracks, passenger yard individual track etc. I’m assuming I can run power into a Psxx then to 1 terminal strip. Then daisy chain the first Psxx to the next Psxx and the that connects to the next terminal strip. Plus I can now add a AR for a Wye that I currently don’t have and a turntable. Thoughts Thanks Paul
Sounds good to me and is similar to my setup.
Hi Larry, good video as I want to build some power districts into my layout. However, is there any chance you could do a follow up video on wiring practicalities and pitfalls as such?
I can see having an inner and outer track on separate power districts would be beneficial. But what about cross overs between the 2 track using something like DCC Concepts IP digitals etc to power both frogs?
As I said a video on installation and programming is coming.
Sorry, I'm new. Where on the PSXX do the button wires go? I can't find this info in the instructions that came with my PSXX2. To the J7 jumper at bottom? Is instgalling a 3-4 jumper all the "programming" I need to do? If I could just duplicate what you had with the little red button switch with its red/black wires running to ... ???
Yes, J7. If you have the short manual then go online and download the 23 page manual and read page 12. It looks like installing the switch is all you need to do, I don’t see any CV’s that need changing.
Larry, can you point me to the lesson that shows the manual reset button in use on the PSXX? I cannot find it since seeing it once. Want to see where the wires from the push button attach to the PSXX. Thank you. - Noel
It’s in the instructions somewhere. You have to add the button to the board and then program it to manual reset instead of automatic. Once set the unit will wait after it trips until you hit the reset button.
Good day. I see that J6 has 4 holes, numbered 1-4. To set the jumper to set trip current, do you just insert wires from one hole to the other? I don’t want to solder them until I see what the new settings do. We have a Digitrax AR1 which worked fine before adding PSXX, but now the CB trips & stops the train from using the AR1. I was thinking that 3 or 4 amps might be better, since the default is now 2 amps.
Thanks
Norm
Yes that is one way to set the trip current, but be aware that the jumper settings described on the diagram are incorrect however the text description is correct. For a temporary test you can program CV49 to the desired trip current. CV49=1 gives 1 amp, a value of 2 is 2 amps etc. If you use CV49 then do not use the jumpers and ice versa. I pointed the error out to Larry Maier so you might want to download an updated instruction pdf.
@@TheDCCGuy I am confused about setting the CV- it says to jump pins 1 & 2 on JP1, then it says to connect DCC track power to the 2 pins on JP1 that I already put a jumper on- How do you do that? The PSXX is already hooked up to the power bus, so why do you need to power the pins? Or am I not reading it right?
Thank you Larry for another really good video. I have a question, I am looking to have 3-4 districts with circuit breakers. Do you recommend the Digitrax PM42 or PSX(X) circuit breakers. I have a Digitrax Zephyr and at the most I would be running 3-4 sound locomotives at one time.
I have both and use the PSX and PSXX.
I'm have some DC locos I run with a DC power pack until I convert them to DCC. Will this harm the PSXX board? I have NOT installed the boards yet.
I’ll have to dig and see whether it might damage them.
Hi Larry. I'm a little confused by the term "block" used in your video and in the PSXX literature. Is a block the same as a power district or power zone? For me, a block is simply a section of single track between two turnouts. Can you clarify please?
Power district and power zone can be different things to different people so I avoid these terms. A bock is an isolated section of the layout typically used for signaling, thus the term block occupancy detection for signals and control. It is a term originally used by prototype railroads for that purpose for example Automatic Block Signaling or ABS is the system that automatically controls the signals for each block.
Hi, Larry. I am confused about setting the CV value- The manual on page 15 says to jump pins 1 & 2 on JP1, then it says to connect DCC track power to the 2 pins on JP1 that I already put a jumper on- How do you do that? The PSXX is already hooked up to the power bus, so why do you need to power the pins? Or am I not reading it right? Thanks
You are confusing J1 with JP1 they are different. J1 is for DCC power input whereas JP1 is the programming jumper.
@@TheDCCGuy Man, do I feel dumb! Thanks, Larry, for all your help on this, and for all your excellent videos.
As usual, the DCC Guy provides a ton of amazing information. What's the price of a PSXX and is it worth buying instead of a PM42?
I prefer them over the PM42. Prices depend on the configuration, see the website I gave in the video.
I'm still confused how a lower rated speaker destroys the board trying to power it, I could understand the speaker blowing out possibly but if you have a 1000W AV system and hook a couple of 15W speakers up to it you're not going to destroy your AV system.
As I have said many tomes I am not an electrical engineer so I have to go by what the experts tell me. I got this directly from the folks at SoundTraxx.
Hi Larry, thanks for another very informative video. I noticed on your earlier video with the PSX model that one of the boards had a six pin socket fitted and I see that the latest PSXX version also has the space to add such a socket. I’ve looked at the manual and don’t see any mention of it so I wondered if you could shed any light on it, please? I use Loconet so I am interested to find out whether or not the PSX(X) can be connected to Loconet and what functionality it might have.
I assume you are referring to the position where jumpers are to be installed etc. For those you can also add screw terminals to make installation of jumpers easier. If you look at the back of the instruction manuals they show these along with some other optional parts.
@@TheDCCGuy Hi and thanks for the reply. I was actually meaning the area which could take a six pin telephone type socket. I’ve since found the updated manual for the PSXX on Tony’s trains website and this area is marked “J8 for factory use only”. So I guess that should be obeyed to avoid potential trouble! Unless you know different. Thanks again.
Ok, that spot is used to update the device’s firmware at customer’s request. I sent my PSx4 back once for an update but it is not something most folks ever do once the unit is installed.
The PSXX breakers seem to be one of, if not the best circuit breaker on the market right now. The way you have them daisy chained however could result in some very high current flow in the first couple of between-board jumpers thus requiring large gauge wire. Can the screw terminals on those boards accept 14 or even 12 gauge wire as that is typically what most modelers use for main buses?
The terminals can take up to 12 ga so you can easily use them with 10 amp boosters. However at that amperage they do suggest installing heat sinks on the power transistors.
Aways like this type of video. A question, assuming a 14 volt track difference, a 2 watt circuit would draw 143 mA. Could you place a 50 ohm resister in series with the speaker to achieve the same result as placing two speakers in series?
Another helpful video, thanks.
Question: I have 2 main blocks, each with it's own booster, DCS210 and DB210. Each block has 2 BXP88s with multiple detection sections. I'm thinking of getting a couple of PSXX-1s to protect the boosters. Do you know if this is okay to do even though there are BXP88s downstream? Is it overkill?
Cheers, Lloyd in Canada
I just scanned the manual for the BXP88 and it appears they include power management functions similar to the PSXX, so it appears you don’t need the PSXX.
Thanks again
ZIMO and ESU list their sound decoders as 3W output.
Yes, I looked around and for some large scales there may even be some 5W versions.
Hi Larry. I set the CV49 value all the way to 5 so the Digitrax AR1 wouldn’t trip the breaker. Do you think that’s ok? Thanks
The PSXX is so new there seems to be little experience matching it with devices like the AR1. Usually it is more a matter of balancing the trip speed. Also the PSXX sasys to set their PSX-AR so that the trip current is less than that of the PSXX controlling the main section of track. Take a look at pages 16-17 in the PSXX manual, especially the text in red.
I was talkig with Larry Maier who designed these today and he confirmed that you need to set the AR1 amperage lower than that of the PSXX.
@@TheDCCGuy I will definitely try that, Larry. Thanks for all your help. I'm a senior (very- 76 yrs old) model RRoader, just new to DCC. I volunteer on a museum layout that we converted to DCC in April, and most of us are up in age as well.
Larry I have a power cab and the PSX aren’t working to absorb the short. I have a PSX with two PSX-AR equipped return loops. Count the auto switch I use for my programming track be causing problems? It just dawned on me that maybe that’s the problem
It likely is a timing issue. The solution is discussed on p. 17 pf the PSX-AR instruction manual.
@@TheDCCGuy I give up. I’ll never use one of these again. By the time I get done it’s cheaper to replace the power cab than to have all these circuit breakers.
@@TheDCCGuy I’ve had people tell me the amperage is too close to the power cab amperage and that maybe I’d need an SB5 and they would work better, but I don’t want to drop $250 only to find out that wasn’t the problem and now I’m pumping more juice too boot
Just remembered you are using the PowerCab. Make sure to also follow the instructions for setting the PSX devices for low power systems as well as changing the timing between the PSX and the PAX-AR. Both come into play in this situation.
@@TheDCCGuy I’ve all but given up. The current settings are low, the trip time is set - I used to have sound decoder problems with them at one point but no more…. Maybe an SB5 is the answer but if I ever built another layout it wound have any of these reversing features on it because I don’t know what else I can use for circuit breakers I may get the old light bulb cause this sure isn’t working
great videos... what type of engine is the yellow loco you use in your intro? thanks
That’s a C&O L1 4-6-4. These were originally 4-6-2 locos but were rebuilt and streamlined for use on one of their streamlined trains. They regularly ran between Richmond Va and Locations in WVa. They were called Yellowbellies due to the paint job. The only remaining member of the class is stuffed and mounted in the B&O railroad museum in Baltimore.
Thank you so much
Is there a 2 watt sugar cube speaker? Just curious.
Not that I know of but there are a number of 2 W speakers on the Streamlined Backshop site (www.sbs4dcc.com) and he has a lot of twin sugar cube speaker enclosures and ready to use setups.
@@TheDCCGuy That is good to know. i will check that out.