Universal Weighted Impact Socket Adapter BUILD -one of a kind- DIY
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- HOW and WHY weighted sockets do and don't work.
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sixtyfiveford
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What a great video! Everything you're talking about carries a lot of useful info and logical deductive reasoning. There actually is a patent now for the little tool you made, filed a couple years ago I can email it if you like. They just havent sold them yet it appears. I agree about the IR patent, would have loved to see anything close to what they drew up, makes you wonder much their product is even protected as it sits now. I had a chance to talk to the inventor working with IR awhile back, not that he probably knew he was talking to "TTC" at the time, but it didn't sound like they ever made that original version in reality. I imagine those window holes they show were also closed up fast too as its easier for production and has zero downside adding more mass.
Our test bolt is 6" long, so you're possibly right about torsion. And if you think about how a engine crank is also itself moving around and turning a bit, that affect is likely even more amplified. Though on IR's video, they are testing using a digital dynamic torque skidmore, there is no bolt. Just a digital sensor measuring the amplitude of each hit. Their claim being each hit is harder. Who knows. If we can somehow test that it is solely on torsionally effected fasteners, i'd love to site you and this video.
It was your video on these months ago that got me thinking about this idea again. I had discounted weighted sockets as fictional. But your tests show them do pretty well. I didn't know anyone had a patent for this, that's awesome. I'd love too look at it if you have that number? I looked over the IR patent and they had a decent bunch of lawyers write that up to include pretty much anything resembling their socket. The movable center looks like it would almost act as a dead blow and would be fun to test.
@@sixtyfiveford I'll IG msg you!
@Torque Test Channel and @sixtyfiveford I'm a mechanical engineer who does all my own car work, and I absolutely LOVE both of your channels! Glad to see some collab going on here! Learned so much from both of you. Keep up the good work, boys, and keep bringing more beans!
I like that you made an update on that video, and I like the dog content. If you are in a need of a weighted socket, and can’t find in stock in any stores and you need it today, go to harbor freight and get the 1/2 metric impact socket set and place the 19mm inside the 30 or 32 (don’t remember which one) and weld them together, works if you need bolt out asap.
Honda crank bolts arent that bad,
You just find your least loved 90 bar adapter and your best force extender. Once it resembles a halfmoon, the bolt should be about to let go
I broke a 1/2" extension trying to get mine out .... hyundai elantra.
Thanks, for the tip. I usually stop at the banana shape. Didn't know I had to go all the way to half moon!
My home made torque wrench has 3 settings , banana, half moon and horse shoe.
I wonder how it would change the reaction of torque bars like the 4 colourful ones used in tyre shops?
The reason I enjoyed this video so much is because of all the wacking and boing'ing.
Hey Thanks.
Glad you came back to this build n thanks for the in depth explanation about what's actually going on with weighted sockets
Thanks, it's fun messing around with this.
Better way to explain the spring action is imagine pounding a nail into a springy 2x4 versus a 2x4 laying on a solid concrete floor, or being held solid. All the strike force is lost in the movement of the wood
So true.
But in this analogy is it a bigger nail or a bigger hammer?
@@PJBonoVox It is like adding weight to the springy 2x4 so that the frequency of vibration is lower than the rate you are hammering.
Holding the 2x4 while you hammer on it also accomplishes a similar thing by adding mass to the 2x4.
Came for the tool but I've gotta say I love seeing a well trained dog! It means the owner cares and has taken the time and energy and love to teach their dog how to behave. It's so rare to see in this spoiled mini pocket dog era and it just made my day. Thank you for the content!
Thanks.
My dog would have eaten the box too. In his defense, he is a beagle
I think Ginger was ignoring you with the yummies but made up for it shortly thereafter. I like the original with the springs and this is why there are 'Torque Sticks' to use in tightening truck lugs with aluminum wheels. A torque stick will just tighten a certain amount. No need for a torque wrench. The impact will just do what the stick is rated for and that's it. And the aerating Ginger is getting the job done. GBWYall!
Ginger loves driving the tractor, just have to teach her to steer.
Spring steel is definitely more elastic and I can see where they make a mountain of difference!
I've only needed it 3 times in 4-5 months but of those times it worked good. It's an odd thing to use but I think it has it's place.
Thanks for the technology build and review. i have never heard of them before and in my younger days I used to break VW flywheel gland nuts in half with a 3/4" breaker bar and 3 foot cheater, when my experienced friend told me I could never get it tight enough by hand. Wrong thing to tell me back then. 😲
That's great. Can't tell a young man they can't do something....
Wow, never considered the shank of any bolted component had that great of an effect on a torque wrench. It makes perfect sense though that slight bit of give acts like a spring. This info is being permenantly filed away in my head now.
Hey Thanks.
Thanks for this followup. I was really wondering about weighted sockets, especially after your previous video building the first adapter.
Thanks, it's been fun playing around with them.
THanks god someone finally telling the truth about weighted sockets.. rock on brother
Hey Thanks Scott.
Thanks for explaining that, I've never tried them. The sauce must've been nice, she cleaned it all up
Hey Thanks. She loves table scraps.
BEST WAY TO REMOVE CRANK BOLTS......breaker bar on there and bump the starter.....Been doing that for years.
I watched this 1 video and I can tell you that u are The Godfather of toolies everywhere. I kiss the ring.
Real interesting! I had no idea weighted sockets were even a thing. With the price of them I can sure see how an adapter would be the way to go. Thank you for the video!
Thanks for watching!
I have the Ingersoll 21mm power socket. It's funny, it has the windows milled into the halo and isn't solid like that 26 mm. I wonder if they've updated the design or skipped that process to make the socket cheaper? For Ford super duty lug nuts it's a life saver!! The trucks I work on have been converted to busses and have aluminum front wheels where the lug nuts really can dig in. With a standard 21mm impact socket and a quality 1/2 tool truck impact you could fight forever trying to remove them or resort to needing a huge breaker bar or 3/4" gun to remove them sometimes. That's with the lug nuts being torqued to spec properly with routinely calibrated torque wrenches. The Ingersoll socket has never let me down and takes any of those lug nuts off every time!
That's awesome! I wonder if the softness of the aluminum against the steel creates a torsion effect.
@@sixtyfiveford I'm honestly not sure. The alloy wheels are pretty thick. The socket isn't a 100% tight fit on the lug nut and you can see it rock/hammer back and forth very slightly so I almost wonder if it works to amplify the impact guns hammering blows. Kind of like those fan clutch wrenches you can chuck up in a air hammer.
It's great to see you revisit this and explain the benefits and why a weighted socket is needed in some situations. Cheers my Friend! Zip~
A lot of guys swear by these things and use them daily.
i learned something new watching your video! was searching for a diy drill adapter to impact and landed on your video and was fascinated! Great Video! Great educator!
Your video's are always so good I just hit the like before I even watch them.
Hey thanks
I love your content.. and thoroughly enjoy your channel .. growing up on a large farm.. fabrication was an daily necessity .. it is rare for me to obtain some new information, previously unknown ... but today Moe and Ginger .. achieved that task .. may GOD continue to protect and Bless you .. btw .. always been a pure Blue (oval) Blood ..
Very interesting video. Loved the way you explained the detail about how those work and in what situation. Thanks for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Iv run into this issue before. Honestly didnt even know there was a such thing as a "weighted" socket. Definately explains why its so hard to remove ballancer bolts. My mikwaukee 2767 high torque does not have that issue, being that half of its torque being taken away from it is still more than most 1/2 air impacts have lol. Couldnt get a matco, snap on, or earthquake to budge the bolt on my ls1. The milwaukee zinged it out.
I think i will buy that IR socket and do what you did, cut the end off and weld on a adapter
I've only needed it 3 times in 4-5 months but of those times it worked good. It's an odd thing to use but I think it has it's place.
I like yours better than the commercial versions.
Hey Thanks.
I just realized that the long shank torsion is the same reason that when working with iron pipe, you put the wrench on the pipe as close to the fitting as possible. Otherwise, you have to load the spring in the pipe before the force starts working on the threads. I haven't done a lot of iron pipe work, but I can remember the springy feel when out on the pipe a distance now.
Makes sense.
I guess the tutorial on how they work explains my technique of holding the socket with a gloved hand. I learned through the years that on tough bolts that to grab the socket and turn it in the same direction as the impact is turning nets a greater torque than just letting the socket bounce on the fastener. Of course, it's tough on the hand, and may be why I have problems with my left hand.
Thank you for explaining that in a way that made sense to me. A diy spring patent version of the weighted socket would be fucking rad to see built/tested against the commercial and diy weighted socket.
Btw the way I love the fact that your research often includes the patents! Awesome!!
Great video and information on lost torque with long bolts and U bolts.
You only have to put a hand breaker bar on U bolts to understand what you explain here, you can feel how springy the bolts are.
I have never seen or used weighted sockets.
Would it be a simpler and cheaper build your weighted adaptor by using a short 75mm extension or 2 size adaptors welded together they are usually sold as sets together and would achieve a short adaptor.
Then weld a big washer to it rather than cut up a weighted socket?
Might be what you did originally with the one with holes.
I have always had good results using impact guns on long or even short bolts by using my hand or a pair of pliers on the socket or extension nearest the impact gun and Twisting in the correct direction when things wont loosen. The added benefit is also less damage to the fastener head.
This eliminates the looseness in bolt to socket and any extensions and delivers all the actual impact to the bolt. I have found in my 35years working adding some twist to the impact gun back and forth also helps as well.
On large bolts using 3/4 inch impact guns on REPEAT assembly tasks it is essential and realistic to weld the extension into the socket so the torque from the impact gun is not lost with the looseness in the system.
It is amazing how much energy is absorbed in long bolts or extensions loosness.
For car wheel nuts I know you can buy torque limiting sockets (I don't have any) they have a shank diameter and length maybee 10inch long so that the fastener cannot be over torqued easily with impact guns.
You splained that so even I can understand it, and I’m no rocket scientist. Thanks!
Hey Thanks.
I've taken off many Honda crank bolts. My goto is an impact socket with a breaker bar, with the handle resting on a cinder block, the get in the car and crank it over. It works great but I've learned to drape a coat or or shirt over the handle because if that baby flies off, it goes to the moon. This video is a great explanation of torque loss with impacts. Great video!!!
I had a 97 honda civic that broke 3 lug studs off and of course that year doesn't have the slot to tap the broken studs out and hammer new ones in. So I had to remove the center hub nut and let me tell you ibroke every pull bar and big ratchet I could borrow🤣..i had to get a generator and compressor to take to the car which was in the middle of bfe...to use the air cut off wheel to cut the nut off and even cut in half the damn thing wouldn't come off!! It was literally welded itself to it.. I beat and cut and beat and cut...eventually had to pull the whole knuckle and CV axle off the car and put all new in...i was broke at the time...i mean broke..some good samaritan stopped and said "Ive road past you 5 times today and I started at 9 am ...its 5:45pm and your stil"l here..he said "lets go to the parts store."..he purchased the entire assembly ball joints and all,CV axle too...the car had no dents on the passenger side that morning....🤣🤣🤣
Awesome.
The u-bolt's springiness due to it's length example explained it best. Makes it easy to understand why you fabbed this up.
Since I'm new to welding... and have several spare extensions and old dumbbell weights (2.5 or 5.0#) this looks like a great 'how many beers does it take to make this' test.
LOL, heck yeah.
If your a fan of the Big Bang Theory show the 10:00 mark will remind you of the episode where Leonard says “let me explain this to you using physics. What would you be if you were joined to another object, by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around and axis?” Sheldon: “screwed!”
Thanks for the informative video man.
Too funny!
Fascinating work. I wonder if they would improve the performance of an impact with a long extension on it? Would be interesting to check that out.
In theory it would. I will definitely have to try this.
@@sixtyfiveford please do, thats also another major test that could really change the game if it happened to help with it
The extension would defeat the weight I think.
@@robertmccully2792 A 3" extension results in about 10-15% torque loss. once you get up to about 12 in long you lose about 50%. The weighted socket/adapter would help recoup some of those losses and stabilize the extension. Whether that be 10%, 20%.....? And even if that is enough to break the bolt free?
I wonder the same thing. Impact wrench - adaptor - extension - socket. My hypothesis's that the inertia of the adaptor would reduce the torque reduction of the extension.
That's pretty cool! Thanks for taking your time to fully learn and experiment with how they work and then clearly show that to us!
I'd bet that adapter would come in handy when working with long or multiple extensions where you loose a lot of torque to those torsional spring forces
Yeah, it probably would work great with those.
I have found that a lot of people don't consider the elastic properties of metals even though so many things depend on those properties.
The whole reason for torque specs on fasteners in relatively high and dynamic load condition applications is primarily because of the elastic properties of even hardened fasteners. Pre-loading reduces metal fatigue, and therefore fastener failure.
A good example of an intentional use of torsion as a spring is the spring used in assisting the opening of the gull wing doors of a Delorean. The spring is just a solid spring steel rod that is connected to the body of the car on one end, and the door on the other. It's extremely effective, compact, reliable, and simple - an engineer's wet dream. It's also a good illustration of why impact guns are not very reliable for tightening and loosening fasteners that have an inherently high torsional reactance.
Well said.
Thanks for the explanation, it turns out that these things work in exactly the opposite way to how I thought they would! I thought it was momentum on the but being removed but it’s actually to stop the bolt from springing back! Reminds me of of anti-tramp bar for a rear axle.
Interesting video. Like your Allis Chalmers Ave. sign too.
Hey Thanks.
What a great dog
Thanks, I think so.
It seems to me, that unless the weighted mass of the socket is synchronized with the blows of the impact gun, it might actually work against it, decreasing the torque applied. If the socket was rebounding as the impact hammering, the forces would more or less cancel each other.
I thought it would have acted as a dampener between the blows of the hammer vibration and material of metal like a spring... Can we get an engineer in the comments please.
Not really. Think of it like driving a nail into a springy unsupported board. Put a heavy steel weight on the nail head that transfers the weight through to the board and slows/reduces it's spring back. Now every hammer blow more energy is going to go into driving the nail vs springing the board. This weighted socket doesn't add any power or torque, it simply allows some lost power/torque to be transferred to the fastener.
The blows are happening so fast the material doesn’t have enough time to go back to its original state, so you’re keeping it on its edge and forcing it from there.
sort of like holding the material still when using a sawzall, vs the materail being loose and the saw just bounces it around
Good example.
Thanks for revisiting this, well worth while, it's been really interesting.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Bet it will improve the spring you get when you have to use an extension on shorter bolts too! Old rule of thumb, never use an extension on an impact unless you have to, because they absorb all your power. I will be making one now for sure!
Great video!
In theory it should work to help improve the losses you get from an extension. I played it around with that last night for 20 minutes. It's hard to tell and only real world will be able to let me know for sure.
Yes I agree ..commented above before seeing your post..I need one for long extensions when taking out transmissions..
Cool video. I had never heard of those weighted sockets before.
Hey Thanks.
Great video....I was happy to see a follow up showing what these sockets are actually good for! Thanks for insights!
Thanks for watching!
In a way, this explained the stretch in head bolts to me.
Awesome
so it's like a dynamic-inertia-phase shifter; a DIP-shift !
Pretty much.
The Honda socket didn't work on my Odyssey. Even with my over priced Mac gun.
So I put my cheapest pull bar on the bolt, shoved the handle against the chassis and bumped the starter.
Awesome! Those bolts are brutal.
Good explanation of how it works. I have one weighted socket for the Honda crank bolts.
Best part of this was the look after "leave it" 😂
Nice info makes sense how mutch to make the liter one thanks jb.
I'm thinking you may be looking for a "torque multiplier". I've seen these used on bus lug nuts.
I'm wondering if someone makes a compact version, made using a planetary gear set...?
A little more educational than entertaining, well done.
Thanks for watching.
Random comment noticed your vice was made in Sheffield, UK where I'm from, I didn't think our steel would make it across the pond!
It's been a great vise.
You can do the same by gripping the socket in your hand. holds the force from bouncing back.
Ok, so if I'm understanding the physics behind this correctly, the weighted adapter would go on the impact and then say a 12" extension (I'm assuming the longer the better) and then a socket, and that should take your lug nuts off. Being short just makes the impact push more weight, but being longer gives the hammer time to reengage before the springiness returns back to the start position. Interesting concept if you have room for it.
Excellent explanation, totally understandable!
Can do a video of tightening up the night with the weighted extension and show the torgue it takes to take It off
I have not used one of these. Good explanation.
Stay safe, Joe Z.
Thanks Joe.
@@sixtyfiveford 👌
I wonder if they would also prove effective when using longer extensions. After all, twisting is twisting.
When I was a mechanic, taking out bell housing bolts from the upper half of a bell housing, my impact was almost useless. The torque [twisting motion] needed to overcome the length was sometimes 15-degrees of rotation that had to be done by hand.
In theory it should. Like you unless it's utterly necessary an extension is never used on my impacts as it renders them powerless.
Love your doggie.
I made one of those by pressing a 1/2"x 2" extension through a 3/8" piece of steel that I cut out with a hole saw, drilled the center hole to size then welded it. To insure the extension was centered I then put it in my drill press, turned on the drill and used an angle grinder to shape it.
Very cool. Beet explanation I've seen on the subject.
Glad you liked it!
This is the same principle employed by torque sticks and the negative affect of adding extensions to impacts, just applied in opposite. It's all spring-mass-dampers...At least that is what the authors of my Modeling and Analysis of Dynamic Systems text tell me.
Exactly.
Never heard of them. Had to be hard to come up with a presentation. Very nice explanation!
A lot of guys swear by them.
Thanks for figuring this out, now I understand WHY they work/don't work. Definitely want to hear about your testing with long or multiple extensions.
It would be cool if the flywheel had moveable weights to either manually or automatically adjust to vary the rotational inertia.
Interesting! That would be neat.
Great now if my impact doesn't get er done I gotta go buy a new welder cuz of torshun. Your the one who wanted a Honda
Great explanation and demonstration !
Hey thanks
Do you think you would work the same way if you're trying to remove a bolt that is seized to the sleeve inside of a bushing? Whenever you try to hit those with an impact wrench It just bounces back so it torches itself backwards in a very similar manner. It'd be really cool to see this weighted adapter try to remove a rear lower shock bolt out of a Honda civic because those are notorious for seizing to the inner sleeve
In theory it should. When I first built this I kind of gave up on it but found 3 times that the impact wouldn't remove something and used this. Those were all times where the bolt/nut was springing.
Good.... you did it again
Thanks
I have used weighted sockets on air impacts on lugnuts with good success rate
Awesome.
Simple resonance of the hammer action gives a acoustic coupling effect….great idea but can only be optimized to a specific hammer and it’s frequency of blows
Not really. The hammer hits so often even though every blow isn't timed right it will go in and out of time/sync. So with the 20-30 blows per second it doesn't take long as it only needs to hit once to loosen the bolt.
@@sixtyfiveford wrong think harmonics…trying to help you here…look into it or don’t …but you have to match the anvils resonance frequency which don’t change and also has a specific frequency…figure that out and you’ll have a tuned socket for your specific tool but won’t work universally among other tools with different anvil mass(and frequency)…all of this is great if your making sockets for DEWALT….no hate here just trying to help
If torsion plays a role here it stands to reason that repeated impacts on nut securely fastened to such a shaft would potentially deform the shaft. If with each impact the twist isn't allowed to spring back to its original position, but is instead further twisted up to the point that the nut finally breaks free, I would think there's a reasonable chance that the shaft itself is now slightly deformed. Maybe it's not as much of an issue on a large diameter crank shaft, and maybe we're talking about thousandths of an inch, but it seems deformation is definitely possible.
Very insightful video! Thanks bud 💪
Thanks for watching
Great explanation. Totally understand now. Makes since now thanks
They should help when using long extensions...
They're supposed to be more effective on air impacts. I forget where i seen that. It might of been the torque test channel
Ginger reminds me of my Sally girl 5 year old boxer pitbull. Every night she starts at one end of the room and ends up at the other end eating her dinner. She won't put her paw on her plate to hold it steady. And then of course no matter what I'm eating she has to have some, so I always end up sharing all of my food with her.
That's awesome.
I wonder if you could use the weighted adaptor on the impact wrench, they use an extension with the socket on the other end and reduce the torque loss from using the extension? i.e. Impact Wrench - weighted adaptor - extension - socket - rusted nut that requires use of an extension for access.
I like Ginger feeding on the box more than your explanation of the impact socket adapter. HAHAHAHA! Just kidding. But Ginger is #1.
Me too
It's the extra stiffness of the thick wall not the weight that makes the difference. The momentum transfer of the hammer depends on the elasticity of everything that the impulse is transferred through. In physics it's called "coefficient of restitution". It is like the difference between hitting a hard baseball and hitting a soft foam ball.
Cool background great tutorial
Glad you like it
So basically it works on things on the concept of a torque stick the length and the diameter of a torque stick only allows a certain amount of impact to reach the nut or bolt on the far end and this takes away the effect of the Twist and flecks of a torque stick an allows you to get full power at the other end of AKA torque stick or long Bolt crank or said long fastener
Learn something from this
How about welding the male socket end to a stack of 26 mm nuts?
This would allow you not modify the weighted socket, but still adapt it to use other sockets.
Excellent video
Thank you very much!
Thanks for this information..and the video...Ginger is a well trained ....Cheers 🍻🍻🍻🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Hey thanks.
Have you tried holding the outer ring in the direction you are using the gun into to stop it from rotating? Used to work when removing wheel nuts.
That seems like it would work. Maybe even put a hex on the outside of the socket, so you could put a wrench on it in the direction you want to turn?
I was actually holding it in a lot of my testing. It think it's natural instinct.
Good info, I never new this
MM77 Approved 👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks
I was wondering how those Torque Extensions could control torquing bolts without using a Torque Wrench
Yeah, their pretty basic in principle.
Have you thought of using a 1” or 1 1/2” long extension and adding a weight to that?
Yes, in my first video of this.
Thos torque rigs are hydraulic, and hydraulic fluid is not perfectly incompressible; there will be pressure waves bouncing back and forth in a similar fashion to a long fastener acting as a torsional spring
PATENT THAT NOW IF YOU HAVE NOT ALREADY DONE SO. Doesn't matter if it works or not. Nobody else I'm aware of has a weighted adapter on the market.
I've been thinking about making a planetary reduction adapter
Me too. The only issue is the gearbox needs it's own handle to stop it from spinning. And the gearbox handle is going to the take the full torque of the setup. So it will need to rest against something.
You should patent yours
Thanks from Texas 65
Thanks Jason. -Moe
Well that was ridiculously useful. Thanks!
Hey Thanks.
DIY MASTER
Just tinkering.