I Off-Road the 2024 INEOS Grenadier! Should the Jeep Wrangler & Ford Bronco Be Worried?
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
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After years and months of waiting, Andre finally had a chance to off-road the 2024 Ineos Grenadier. Should the Ford Bronco and Jeep Wrangler watch their backs?
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#ineos #ineosgrenadier #review
The guy from Ineos seems nervous...his body language says "My boss will kill me if they f up this tuck."
He wasn’t the rep I would have hired if were Ineos. He seemed nervous, anxious and didn’t have the gift of gab. Andre had to pull the answers out of him.
He's is probably a typical engineer, they probably did not have the budget to hire a tik tok influencer like Dylan Mulvaney
Watch Harry's Farm review
Ummm... Looks very like a LandRover to me ?!?
That guy from Ineos looked really thrilled to be there....🙄
Nerves.
We shall call him "chuckles"
Not everyone has an outgoing personality that we’re used to in front of the camera. I haven’t finished the video yet, but maybe he’s an engineer not in the communications department.
LMAO! I was thinking the same.
hes probably on his 100th sit along with other RUclipsrs and auto publications..cut him some slack
The Wrangler and Bronco have nothing to fear as the price of this thing is absolutely ridiculous
And looks like its a 1992
It’s in a different league and for a different market then wrangler and bronco .and it’ll destroy them off road.
@Daniel murray Even in stock form, I highly doubt it. With a few mods they will destroy this thing and still be cheaper than a stock one
@@danielmurray5326that’s a bit of a stretch, I’m willing to bet a Rubicon JL or Badlands Bronco fair much better in real off-road situations just judging off what I saw in this video.
@@toolshed7652 you are way off. And to your point with a few mods on this thing it still will destroy the competition. Even in stock form it’ll crush. But yeah obviously with upgrades anything can be better. But as said this thing will destroy. And guaranteed with some mods it’ll be even more crazy off rd
Pretty sweet looking. But with a starting price of 73k, I don't see where Ford or Jeep have much to worry about. Add some options and you'd be in Raptor/392 territory. I like the design philosophy of keeping things simple, but it's hard to convince me to pay more for that simplicity.
yeah... I think I would go 392 before this
@@user-rk2ww2cm4v if you're looking for street legal ATV. Some people are looking for family vehicle that can go off-road and tow a trailer.
@zelenizub2036 The towing capacity is definitely the standout.
@@robsolf us spec will be way less the tests are different.
I've had two reservations in since the day they opened. At first, it was supposed to be a 50-70k rig. Once I was able to spec mine, the off-road version was 95k, and the around town version was 93k. Super disappointing.
I love seeing the reps in all the Ineos videos try to avoid mentioning the defender at all costs
$72k base price is wild for that with no options.
🤣 Not a flattering review. Good honesty though. For a NEW cobbled together defender style rig, it has some allure. But I think a Defender 90 that starts at around 57K would be a wiser choice. I do like the actuation panel in the roof. But that is hardly a big enough selling point, since it has nothing to do with the overall functionality of what the vehicle can do. Jeep, Ford, Land Rover, Toyota, have nothing to worry about. This will not cut into their sales in any significant way.
Well done Andre as ever well researched & knowledgeable about the vehicle. It will be interesting to see how it does in a competitive North American market. I look forward to see more real world videos with the realistic testing that TFL Off-road gives vehicles.
Made in France???
I think this is the first time I've ever wanted a French truck...lol
Hey Steve is back. What a reunion of TFL cast. 🎉🎉🎉🎉
They need to be in the $45-50k like they initially said to be compeditive.
yes ,lot of us want. a base spec off road wagon ,I have no need for 3 row s of leather , panaramic roof 2nd row int screen luxury wagon , want to just go off road .car camping / overland /touring
$71k base price is hilarious.
I think price will come down over time, if it sells in decent volume it will get cheaper to build per unit.
It can cost more than a Rubicon, but its going to cost way more. Its for niche market fairly wealthy guy with multiple cars. Its cool though, I could see Doug Demouro buying one.
@@popuptoaster How are they going to sell a decent volume when it's already priced out of the market?
I was expecting the guy next to him to say "YOU LIKE CAR BUY OR GET OUT !"
I was very interested in the Grenadier from the start. I reserved one when the talk of starting price was $50kish. It seemed like a promising true off-roader as well as a daily. Now that it's released for the Northern market and pricing is available, I priced out a wagon with lockers and the BF Goodrich All Terrains and the price was over $70k! I had a feeling this would be the case after seeing the official pricing in the UK a while back. I'll be getting my $450 back. No longer interested in paying high dollars for an unproven vehicle. Not even interested in paying that anymore for one that is. Very disappointed in the auto industry these past years and currently. They all are starting to hurt and hopefully will feel it even more very soon.
Yes they pumped everyone up at first thats its gonna be in the mid 40s! 😂 Wait for the 2024 Land Cruiser Prado/4Runner/GX I think one of those will start at mid 40s and will run circles around this
@@lav1daloca Yes! I'm very excited to see what Toyota will bring as the new Land Cruiser. I hope it is the Prado, but not too excited about the engine, unless it's diesel, which will prob not happen. I do hope the LC will be priced right. Needs to be less than the Sequoia for sure!
You can get into a 392 wrangler for a little more coin than that. This thing is a pretty basic solid axle SUV. I would have been interested at $50k-ish.
Ineos have one factory in France, production capacity is 30,000 vehicles per year.
Utility versions will be released late 2023.
In theory, on a worldwide basis, they should find enough people who want this particular / niche type of vehicle…
@@StephenFogarty2023 Oh, I'm sure they will. Good for them. I'm all about a new company making it big, but unfortunately the consumer is going to have to pay "big" money for that reason. I hope as the years go by their reliability holds and their price remains the same or drops even with inflation. I still don't think I would buy one even if that would be the case. Priced too high. Love watching videos on em though and can't wait to hear and see real customer reviews when these things hit the dirt! Maybe I'll wait to see what they do with the ute/truck. Hopefully the pricing for it will be inline.
Nice to have Steve along for the evaluation.
I was so excited when I saw this until I saw the price. If the government would take their boot off the necks of potential off road developers we would have new options also the time. Nice to see competition
Great to see Stephen! An interesting vehicle, the styling being old school defender 110 I think fits a niche that does have a market (albeit small). For that price though I think I would rather have a wrangler, bronco or even a new defender. Not just because they are proven products but also parts availability.
Which parts, at that, are you referring to? Even Toyota owners are restricted with parts availability nowadays, as case studies prove.
@@unwoke1652 Which Toyota and where ?
Defenders and new Broncos are proven unreliable. Very unreliable.
Even the factory could not get Demuro a door for his nufender. He sold it because of parts availability.
Agreed Jeep has an aftermarket support that nothing else can rival!
Man i hope people buy this! I want one in 10 years 😂
The representative was not very happy to be there it seemed to me
I'm not in the market for a new vehicle but my golden rule of never buy the first production model of a completely new vehicle would still apply. It doesn't matter how much R&D and how many testing miles are done, it always takes at least a couple of model runs to iron everything out.
Thats why EV sales in the UK are low. Savvy buyers are waiting for that VHS/Betamax moment to see how the market works out.
Wait a minute, this is where Yuri and Jakob go for off-road testing!
Yep. That’s correct.
Who are Yuri and Jakob?
@@ldmtag, car reviewers from Canada 🍁
@@ldmtag they from the straight pipes
@@Ferraz298 and down the RUclips rabbit hole I go!
I'm in Australia and been following for a while and will get mine before year ends, really looking forward to it
I'm happy to see something new that ain't got all plastic up front (real bumpers) & doesn't curve down in the back stealing room for style, Great start, I like it 👍
Its practically a resto-mod of an old Land Rover.
I agree, but it is rather expensive for a utility vehicle
@@lunamaria1048Jeeps and Broncos are expensive for utility vehicles. If you can drop 50-80k on top trim versions of those, this isn’t a big deal for those with cash or heavy debt burdens.
@@jeffk464 I think I have read somewhere that the owner of the brand initially created the vehicle to offer it to Land Rover and that this was the Land Rover Defender that we all know, but Land Rover did not want it so he decided to continue alone, I have been following the progress of the vehicle since its inception in Europe.
@Alf Ram I can see it because it looks a lot like old Defender 110. But it's cool becaise it's something new and real 4x4 with solid axles.
I really like that they embraced the off-road segment and went all in with solid axles and lockers. That takes guts nowadays. Overall I like this rig.
However, are they doing enough to be unique, or are people just going to see this as a Land Rover lookalike? I'm not so sure. While I think the price is competitive for the sector it competes in, to really gain a foothold I think they'll need to do something special, such as sell this vehicle for under $50K. I don't think that's going to happen, but I don't know if they're doing enough to differentiate themselves. Time will tell. Kudos for making a ultra capable off-roader though, much respect for that.
It’s far too heavy. Harry Metcalfe weighed his test one with only one person on board and no luggage at 2,960kg / 6525 lbs which doesn’t leave much payload left at all. It also doesn’t have enough payload to qualify for U.K. business tax exemptions to get the VAT back, cutting out a big market. Similarly 500kg odd payload for the Australian & African overlanding market simply isn’t enough. By the time you add on bullbar, extra diesel & water tank, fridges, awnings etc. and passengers & food/luggage you’d be way over weight / GVM.
Harry's review was rubbish, he had no criteria or any sort of base. He was expecting it to drive like a Lamborghini. He didn't even know how to lock the diffs ffs why are you even reviewing it. It has a 750 payload, on par with the 300 series and other vehicles in its class, superior than the defender.
Most heavy tow rigs will need a gvm upgrade anyway, so the Ineos will be sweet.
@@mrbaaghi1189 he’s one of the most experienced car journalists around, and started EVO magazine. He concludes by saying that the Defender, Jeep Wrangler, or even Hilux / Amarok are currently better options due their better handling on-road.
@@mrbaaghi1189 if someone added 750kg to his test Grenadier then it would have been over the 3500kg road limit. His car as standing would only have had a payload of 3500kg-2960kg = 540kg.
@@andrewhurstcars better how? Why not give a breakdown and provide a decent review. He was heavily bias towards the defender. Why not compare it with a landcrusier 70 series or a 300 series? Out of a 12 min video he had 20 secs offeoading, even then failed to engage the lockers. It was a poor review.
@@mrbaaghi1189 the Landcruiser 70 and 300 series are not on sale in Europe, so not available to test. The front and rear lockers on his test car failed to engage when he tried, several times. And he already had the centre diff locked. He’s a very fair reviewer, he clearly said try any of Amarok, Hilux, Defender and Wrangler, which he says all drive better on-road. Have you got one on order?
I've had two reservations in since the day they opened. At first, it was supposed to be a 50-70k rig. Once I was able to spec mine, the off-road version was 95k, and the around town version was 93k. Super disappointing.
Your worth it.
@@panthermartin7784 ahhh thanks! But I got my deposit back and am now in line for a new GX.
Get the '24 Land Cruiser. 😊
Ineos need to push the longevity factor with this. I fully expect to see these things in 30 years driving around Sudan with machine guns on the back. Cant say that for the new disposable defender
Except the electronics might kill it before then. Hate electronics.
It’s got a BMW engine so don’t get ahead of yourself there. In 10 years it will be dead
@@matthewbraybrooke7670 A lot of the converted Land Rovers are switching to mechanical OM606 now, especially if you are in to overlanding
Landcruiser, the real king, enough said mate.......
Its a beautiful rig, and even as an IFS fan I am glad it is SFA since there are less options out there for that and it fits this application well. I do wish it had the ability to fit large (American size) tires, obviously 32" is perfect for a global platform but clearly the fenders do not look 37" friendly. Also the flex looks pretty lackluster for an SFA rig. Edit: they said its 558. Thats pretty bad for SFA. Bronco has 620-700 from the factory...
The lack of a factory 35" option has kept me away from it too. Modifying cars in most European countries is very difficult thanks to EU regulations, so having it as a factory option would have been a huge bonus.
@@6226superhurricane You might have read that wrong, the specs say 265, not 285. To be honest, the small wheel arches and quite short control arms would make this a pain to modify anyway.
@@6226superhurricane Isn't a low crawl ratio good for mounting bigger tires?
@@imnotusingmyrealname4566 absolutely the bigger the tyres the lower the crawl ratio needs to be.
Have you tried doing a full rebuild on an IFS and solid axle or even just routine preventative maintenance? Waaaay more stuff to service on an IFS. Might be a better ride on road but offroad it's solid axle all the way.
Truck King!!!!
Whistln diesel needs one of these for a review
Very interesting vehicle, lots of buttons and switches! Would be great to see a test during harsh canadian/or Colorado winter times.
at close to 80k out the box i think Bronco and jeep are safe from this one LOL
@@cz_ww2117 i have, everything i'd want from factory i can walk away in the low 60's WITH Fords mark up on a bronco, less for a jeep.
The Jeep Wrangler and Ford Bronco can’t be worried. They are inanimate objects.
I've been excited about this for 2 years now!!!! Land rover screwed up and Grenadier filled the gap!! Thank you Grenadier!!!!!! What the defender should be.
Land Rover will sell far more Defenders than Grenadier. Why? Because few want an out and out 4WD. Most want a car thet can do everything in. Would I want to drive from New York to Toronto in a Grenadier? No thanks. 4WD is niche.
From what I’ve seen of these “following them over the last 3 years” they are cool but a giant disappointment in the making. Their starting price is way above what it should be. The warranty and dealer network is non existent. And the basic design is just a straight copy of a defender but over engineered without the backing necessary to show its reliability. They took bits and pieces from great vehicles “bmw motor is great in a car not so much off road” the red winches are amazing winches but twice the price as a warn or such winch “again minimal us dealer network”. They have had some of the biggest overland guys come and drive it and they offered their expertise and they just ignored them. I wish them the best but I don’t see it lasting in the states personally
I had a reservation, canceled it when I found out the price. I like the idea of it, but it just doesn't have the offroad chops compared to the Bronco. The BMW powerplant combined with no dealer or support network kept me from spending $80k+ . It'll be a nice mild overlander - but wont be doing the rubicon trail. This was a vehicle designed for the European idea of offroading. North American trails are a bit more... technical I guess is the word I'm looking for. For an idea of the european offroad mentality is like, go watch the Grand Tour Carnage a Trois episode. 32" tires won't even let me get on the blue trails at my local offroad park.
Watch Harry’s Farm and Harry’s Garage reviews of the Grenadier and you’ll be glad you cancelled it. The weight at over 2,850kg / 6280lbs odd is ridiculous.
@@andrewhurstcars hater much. Are you JLR marketing or something??!!
That BMW engine is one of the better once produced today. Even Toyota put that engine in Supra that says something. Also having payload larger than Wrangler and Bronco combined says a lot.
@@zelenizub2036 This engine suffers from coolant leakage
@@Edd5hott79 not at all, I want it to succeed as much as anyone, and a big fan of BMW engines. The weight just seems too high. People used to complain when the Discovery 3 arrived at 2,400kg, but 2,850kg just seems excessive for a 1.5 billion investment. I’m sure the Mk.2 will address any issues. They’ve also completely neglected the commercial U.K. market, as you can’t claim the VAT back on the commercial version as the payload isn’t high enough. If the Grenadier was 2,300kg odd it would be ideal.
Love that hydraulic steering is considered an upgrade. Lol
In person these things are very well built and extremely solid and big. Sitting inside theres plenty of room and more than a Wrangler. From what I understand the worst thing about this vehicle is its lock to lock turning which translates to a major weakness for on road. Personally, I just don't like the front end. Looks silly. Harry from Harrys Garage gives it a good review too.
Nice truck, but benchmark is a LandCrusier not a wrangler
Land Cruiser is a weird mix between luxury and offroad that really only works in middle east. It wouldn't be nearly as popular even there if it wasn't for its Toyota reliability. It's a bad benchmark.
This vehicle is DOUG DEMURO worthy of a review.
Doug, who? ;)
@@andyackerman7123 QUIRKS AND FEATURES!
@@MichaelOKeefe2009 THIIIIS
Still waiting for Doug D to lift off the ground with his flapping arms!😀
How many dealers? Where do you get it fixed WHEN it breaks? Warranty? Who honors the warranty assuming there is one?
I want one, but not for that price if they could get it down to 50k I'd consider it.
2024 1500 AT4x diesel to be $91. Ineos will attract buyers, even after too many US delays. Wish Ineos offered US BMW diesel like rest of planet. TFS.
I'm glad you got to drive it. Looking forward to more on this vehicle
I also heard the on-road steering is a bit wobbly, imprecise and had massive lock to lock play. What was your experience?
Looks like they brought back the commander.
Think the rep sels vacuum cleaners on the side, not the most enthusiastic, didn't know the back story and scored a zero for enthusiasm, i'll rate it the same as the tradesman Gelandewagen available in Eu or a European manufactured LandCruiser J70 alternative, not about the mags and the sound system, think the tacoma/hilux fans will appreciate it
These vehicles will take the place of the Defender drivers that go shopping. Most folks that can afford them will not be in to the trail capable part.
Agree
But, in due course, used ones become available for sale…
Super ugly, it looks like Lada tried to build a Defender.
There has been a lot of hype about this vehicle in Europe and also disappointment at its move to manufacture from UK to France. I am a little underwhelmed and can actually see why LR went the way they did with Defender. Not sure this is different enough to make its mark?
I somehow think the Grenadier compares in capabilities more to the Toyota 4Runner than the Wrangler or Bronco. It has similar size, wheel size, ground clearance, space and is more geared for driving than rock crawling. In that case however the prize becomes an issue. The Grenadier I have spaced is US $85k, could go to 92k, a fully loaded Toyota 4Runner TRD pro is under US $60k. And the 4Runner is proven technology with reasonably cheap service available everywhere. The Grenadier is way more exciting of course and likely a bit more capable.
It needs to be cheaper
Every vehicle does
Yeah, the pricing is out of reach for many off roaders.
I like how he's shooting for simplicity and reliability with a BMW engine
It's one of the most reliable inline 6 engines on the market mate. Same engine is in the supra. X5,x7 and many other cars. Look into it, it's a sweet power plant.
Like Jag said, they’re actually pretty reliable which is surprising
The B58 inline 6 is bulletproof and as smooth as a sewing machine. Ineos made an excellent engine and transmission choice. Parts are sold around the world for the motor.
Anyone else think there are too many damn cars? Like how easy is it to start a car brand? Seems like anyone can do it. Why make a vehicle that does exactly what Jeep and Bronco do and don't have any new ideas? As a consumer I find it so hard to choose already there are just dizzying amounts of options we didn't need another one to worry about. I feel like capitalism has gone too far where communism would give someone just one choice of beets, and government beer, capitalism gave us 60000 cars and nobody can drive even 1% of the existing cars in the world before they die.
I would totally buy it. Same HP as the 2004RR. The good old days when that was all one needed. Seems well built. Totally worth a buy if dealer network is good and accessible. But if priced over 55k it’s over.
Well bad news it’s over 70k with zero options…
iTs tOo hEaVy say the people who have never cared about or considered weight before and can't think of anything else to complain about
To answer your question, no. Base price is $71k. Most will be in the $80k range. Bronco and Wranglers go for +/- $50k max? Two different sets of clientele. I love this rig! If they just brought the diesel to North America.
They also don't need lockers engaged to go over a simple trail like this lol
No, sticker price of well equipped wrangler/bronco's are like $40-50k. If you go all out they can get very expensive.
@@sapperROSS yeah I was thinking my jeep would have run over that stuff in 2hi :) those crazy brits and their little country wagons haha.
@Sine Pari lol my frontier would be OK in 2wd.
the Grenadier starts at € 74k over here ... and so does the Bronco start at € 74k as well, in both cases thinking of the most basic trim levels of course
I think they aim at the military demand as both the G wagon and Landrover stop producing this can fill that place easy ...and then price dousn't matter.
Just sent in my pre-order. ... and again, Andre knows more than the actual spokesman. And I miss Steve being with the TFL guys.
@@andrewhurstcars Yes, and don't pay too much attention. He did not have the centre diff locked in the 'farm review' even after stating that it was. A half hearted review by someone that had already decided they didn't like the way it drove on the road. Drive the vehicle yourself and decide if it suits your own needs...
There is a very interesting review just gone up on the Harry's Garage and Harry's Farm channel.
He had it for a week he road tested it and has been using it on his farm,.
Harry is a hugely respected motoring journalist as well as having his own farm. No pandering to the manufacturers like some people, only his honest opinion!!
Best Wishes...
@@andrewhurstcars Harry got it right!!
@@Edd5hott79 it weighs 600kg / 1,322 lbs more than a new Defender - that is going to have negative consequences off-road, no matter how good it is. The 540kg payload as tested is simply not enough for the Australian and African overlanding markets. Harry stated that he did have the centre diff locked, but the front and rears lockers failed to engage despite repeated attempts.
They wanted to make it a reliable Off-roader… so they went to BMW for Engine and Transmission lol
Please OFF ROAD test the RAV4 Woodlands Edition, haven't seen any videos about this 'off road hybrid' trim.
We hope to do that soon.
Better look at the review at Harry's farm. He drove it for a whole week long on his farm. Did off and on roading as well as towing. He wasn't too thrilled about this car, thought his new landrover was better as well as some other contenders on today's market. I would say; get rid of the boys toys things and make it more practicle. Manual gears (though I love automatic myself), no stuff that trie to break your neck while trying to operate it aso
Wouldn't trust a landrover consultant to review a vehicle made by their opposition. I think we will wait for who has more exposure to other 4x4 vehicles and are non bais to review it. His review should be taken with a pinch of salt, especially when it lacks criteria and any form of underpinnings.
Harry did not even know how to lock the rear and front diff. That alone indicates he didn’t even do any off road testing with it. The majority of the design and budget was put into the bones of the vehicle to make it durable and to excel in the off road environment. To review a vehicle like this and not take it off road is like reviewing a porsche gt3 with out ever taking it to a race track or a twisty back road and then only drive it to the grocery store and complain about the trunk space. Harry totally missed the point of the Grenadier.
Cannot understand why ppl here complain about max 32" tires and that the Grenadier will fail in Rubicon. This vehicle is NOT designed for heavy duty rock crawling which is pretty much limited to just parts of N-AM. It's purpose is instead to be a simply built highly capable and utilitarian offroader that can room and carry everything INSIDE (or on top) of the vehicle WITHOUT extensive modifications.
and it will take 35's although I am not sure how many mods are needed to fit them.
That thing is AWESOME!! Thank you for sharing Andre!! Love you brother!!
The factory rep was useless
Nah he said go left
Luckily you guys are LHD, the footwell space for the RHD versions is pathetic .
I love the idea of the Grenadier. I do think its a direct competitor to the Jeep Rubicon JL and G-Wagen before the IFS switch, though it still has a G-wagen appeal and build quality feel to it. Given it is full time 4wd I could never get a firm answer from Ineos as to what speed you can lock the center diff which is essential for mountain driving as you transition from dry pavement to snow or ice. It appears you may have to stop or go very slowly to do this. The 2024 Jeep Rubicon will be at a similiar price point (392 or 4xe) and will have a heavier duty live rear axle raising its GVWR to 8000 lbs and towing to 5000 but with gobs more torque. The Rubicon has a 5 position part time AND full time 4wd system which allows shifting from 2H to 4wd auto or 4wd high at speeds up to 45mph. Or, you can shift from 4wd auto to 4wd High at speeds up to 45 mph; this is what the Grenadier appears to be lacking for winter time driving or just hitting gravel roads from the pavement. The 2024 Rubicon can also be optioned with 35in tires and easily upgraded to larger tires if desired. This improves breakover angle and everything else. Both the Grenadier and Rubicon have similar front and rear lockers. The new Rubicon will have a fording depth of 34 inches. The Rubicon still has a detachable sway bar link and is a bit lighter. The new Rubicon also has some improved airbags and sound damping giving in more on road refinement. Crawl ratios in the Rubicon are around 100:1. And the Rubicon has a few engine options, and several trim packages. The Grenadier does seem solidly built, cool styling and innovative auxiliary panel. Visibly out the sides and front are terrific in the Grenadier. I just think the 2024 Rubicon will drive better on road and especially offroad with similar utility as the Grenadier. I do love the Grenadiers looks and hope it will be reliable and have longevity. I have a Jeep JK and seriously considered the Grenadier but now am leaning heavily to the 2024+ JLs. The Rubicon's updated payload in the 2024+ model years and recently added 5 position 4wd (with on the fly shifting) are the key features driving my decision.
It is like old defender. Lock the center diff whenever you want
Yuo can lock the centre diff at any speed, it’s manually operated by pushing the transfer lever to the side like on an old defender. As long as the wheels aren’t spinning you can just pop it in and out as you go. People with part time 4X4 will never appreciate how useful permanent 4x4 is in slippy conditions like winter. The Grenadier is of a much heavier construction than the Rubicon with larger thicker frame members, heavier duty steering components and axles and a higher payload. The GCM of the Grenadier is 6.7 tons. The Rubicon would be the better of the two for modifying for a trail rig and the grenadier better from an overlanding perspective would be my take on it.
I’m not even a big jeep fan, and you’re really selling me on one lol. Selling ice to the Eskimo
@@jamie_grieve well said.. the wrangler aftermarket is key.. you won't be able to modify/upgrade/improve this thing at all.
Haven't you heard of paragraphs ?
I am frustrated by the inability to lock the rear diff in high range.
This is what the new defender was SUPPOSED to be……. Looks good. But the price 😅😭
It's cool. Too bad it costs an arm and a leg. I wonder what would happen if somebody designed a car that fit their idea of what an affordable car would be. I bet a motivated person could come up with a car that could reach the teens.
It's neat. But... 31.5" tire in 2023? No disconnecting sway bar? Not nearly as low range transfer case as a Rubicon. For this price!?! I want to like it. The size is perfect. But compared to a Wrangler Rubicon Xtreme Recon or a Bronco Badlands Sasquatch... This is not enough, especially given it's so expensive.
But this is far better equipped for over landing especially when compared to the Badlands or Rubicon.
@@marcjohnson8488 Far better? It has a higher payload rating. But beyond that I fall to see what's "far better" about this for overlanding. And really I do think there comes a point where simply... You don't need to take the entire house with you. And its limitations in terms of off-road capability are severe enough it would limit where I could go. And if I'm going to make that sacrifice then I'd rather get a Toyota like a 4Runner, GX or the upcoming new LC Prado.
@@PeakDecline it will be up there with the jeep in offroading, can easily put on 35s. Prado and 4runner are not irs competition, it's well balanced with the 300 series, which is about 30k more than this and that will be stock.
I agree it's a great overland set up but here in the Pacific Northwest we need at least a 35 × 12.5 tire to deal with the snow.
@@mrbaaghi1189 It's competition isn't dictated by what the company says. If you're going to make excuses for it's lack of off-road capability then you're going to have to also compare it to options like the 4Runner and Prado. After all, those have the same if not better RTI scores even with independent front suspensions. If 35s fit with no rub stock then it should be a factory option. Moreover if you go from this small of a tire to a 35 you're going to have to regear the axles... Completely destroying the warranty. And I have no clue if higher gear ratios are even available for these axles. This thing can't articulate nearly as much as a Rubicon. And its transfer case isn't nearly a low geared, that crawl ratio quoted by Andre is not good. 35s alone will not make up those differences. For what you're talking about modifying and how much this costs... Honestly you're talking Jeep builds that would be on 37/38s with bypass shocks and another 3" of lift. It's just nowhere close to the same off-road capability dollar for dollar.
nice a. actual off road wagon , one can build a car camper - ovelerlander - , no 3 rows of leather, 2 sunroofs ,no 2nd row ent screens and independent rear axle " for a smooth ride and leg room for the 3rd row '" this is the defender that Land Rover should of built
I do love this... I have been following it and glad it is gonna be available... I sold my 93 Range Rover LWB that i had owned since 2000 and really miss it but not the problems. Excited to know that this might be a good replacement.
Jeez that Ineos rep/employee really doesn’t know much and has the personality of a shoe.
I'd rather see Isuzu come back with an old school trooper 2. If I could find one of those that's not rusted away, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
Rick had a resting tough guy face. Looks like a real brute, then he talks.!. What a flip, he seems like a real pleasant dude!..😅
Regarding MPG I'm getting 26.5 Miles per UK gallon on the motorway at constant speed.With an engine under 1000Miles old
That is terrible, I get 25mpg in my 23 year old Defender 130 with a camper conversion.
Real offroader. But I'll keep my Troopy. 😉
nice wish we could get them in the states , and there diesel ,have room to build a proper car camper /ovelanding wagon , toyota might bring the land cruiser back to the U.S. but bet it will be more luxury car with 3rows of leather @ $ 75k U.S. $
@@youtubecarspottersguide1 didn't the 200 actually start at like $90?
@@ldmtag yes Toyota priced them out of the U/S market
Lovely looking vehicles, but the starting price is way too high for a new company. Almost no dealer network, semi unreliable bmw hardware, and poor MPG
The one to get is the diesel, it is exactly the same price as the petrol and it'll be more efficient and nicer to drive with the extra torque.
EPA killed diesel, too expensive to maintain. Look at the semi truck, only one on the side of the road are new trucks.
@@zelenizub2036 it wasn’t the EPA. It was the various commercial interests which benefit from gas powered vehicles and their lobby groups which dictate EPA policy.
BMW doesn't sell the B57 diesel engine in the US so they never got it emissions certified there. That's why online the gasoline version is going to be sold in the US.
@@anthonyfarnan5935genuinely interested in more info please
@@blegi1245 that's a shame, the US is kind of a snowflake car market that happens to be big enough to maintain its uniqueness. Only China can compete in terms of scale and uniqueness. I guess there's occasionally a price to pay for being out of step with the world car market and this is one of those times.
Shame, for off-roaders in my humble opinion diesel is much nicer. And thus I'll be test-driving the diesel Ineos here soon, I'm very interested in the future pickup version.
I am so damn disappointed with the pricing. 80k is crazy, that’s like 2 Tacomas. I would do 50k in a heartbeat but 80? No way
This is what the new Defender was supposed to be
The new Defender was supposed to combine the off-road ability of the old Defender with the comfort and convenience of a modern vehicle. It's managed to do that and then some.
@@beatonthedonisthe old Defender was one of the best off-roaders for it's time. Comparable to a Wrangler and Bronco. The new Defender definitely can't be compared to those 2 anymore. It's better off-road than the old one, but any modern SUV is. The new Defender is not one of the best off-roaders for it's time by a long shot. Completely failed the Defender objective. Succeeded the Discovery objective.
@beatonthedonis47 discovery can do the same. In essence the new defender is a rugged version of the disocvery. What about the utility aspect of the original defender? I think this is where Ineos catches on. Putting it inline with the vehicles like the 70 series cruiser etc.
It weighs 600kg / 1,322lbs more than the new Defender. That has negative consequences off-road.
@@andrewhurstcars yah because the new defender is not a body on frame. Which means it has a crappy payload and you can't do a gvm upgrade on it.
Looks like he designed an old Land Rover Defender. Nice looking as I do love the old defenders but this has the newer tech inside. Like a restomod I guess.
Apparently he originally approached Land Rover to buy the rights to manufacture the old defender but they said no, so he decided to build has own version.
Nice looking off roader! Straight 6 is a beast just like in the old jeeps.
I have been wondering what the ring gear diameter size is, as well as the axle diameter, spline count, etc. I am aware that Carraro makes axles for tractors, but many of us are curious as to how they compare to axles that we are familiar with, such as the Dana 44.
My FJ80 gets 11 mpg and is slow as balls so 15 mpg with a b58 actually sounds great
Your 80 will still be running when the plastic parts on the BMW motor start crumbling
@@bobcoats2708 this sort of basic platform lends itself very well to engine swaps in the future though. Bmw engine is probably the best they could do for all the European emissions shite.
@@pinkpotato1 Granted. But you are not going to buy this thing for 80 large to engine swap it in five years. Probably won’t be legal to do so for some time. I’ll take the Land Crusher and 11 MPG.
@@bobcoats2708 I would hope the beemer engine would be good for a minimum of 10 years🤣
@@pinkpotato1 I’d like to think so too. But I have the perspective of being a former BMW owner.
I'd like to see a 3door short version with a little trunk with rear seats up and a decent size with seats down
Cool.. keeping an eye on this. 😎 It would even be better with a 6 speed manual.
Since it copied Rover, does it share the legendary unreliability?
I'll keep my Jeep, thnx.
It seems like it was getting stuck in places that most vehicles wouldn't need to use lockers.
Went on the website and did the "build your own" thing, a little over $91,000 for what I picked.
I was excited about this, but now that it is here it seems it would have been a big deal if it was released 15 years ago. As is, this is a new 15 year old truck. Whether that's a good thing is up to you. The latest Rubicon, Broncos and 4Runners have moved on.
I really think people are missing the point of this vehicle. It's not a Wrangler on 33s replacement for boulder hoping. It's an everyday utility that will cover most ground conditions in stock format.
Exactly, it’s like comparing great athlets from similar sports. Both are good at different things.
Other than higher towing a payload, what does this do better than a Jeep?
and don’t you dare say reliability on a brand new to market product
@@mattbrew11 Reliability.
Who in their right mind would go touring/overlanding in a jeep product?
The grenadier is more suited for Australia, new Zeeland, south Africa etc.
@@perpelle People who knows JLs are reliable.
As you say its more of an long distance overlander vehicle. Ultimately a Wrangler would be better on rocks, but most places elsewhere the Grenadier should be on par or slightly better. Testers in Europe have commented how comfortable it is and how well it rides and handles on the road compared to the Wrangler (and previous Defender) given it is a solid axle vehicle. It can take a larger tire, and there is film on RUclips of prototypes at the launch event in Gauteng South Africa looking great running what I think were 35's. There will also be a utility pick-up at some point hopefully with two different capacity rears like the LR Defender had. I would love one, but in Europe the price is not cheap so I will wait and eventually buy a utility version pre-owned.
Finally another true off road vehicle for the North American market other than a wrangler
Looks really cool! Throw a 4bt Cummins in there and should be reliable!
Maybe spend 15 seconds of research and tell us the canadaian price ?
Unproven reliability + BMW engine. What a great combination!
In before the Check engine light and HPFP recall.
BMW engine that Toyota deemed reliable enough to be the successor to the 2JZ > Anything landrover ever produced and any high compression di turbo ford engine.
@@Shakshuka69 Except the Supra weighs 3400lbs meanwhile the Grenadier weighs 6000lbs.
@@electrikoptik yeah it's not a sports car lol
I don't think the after market will have a ton of support for this, so it wont have a ton of US sales. I love it non the less. Its really great. These will be a sought after vehicle in the future like the old defenders. I think whats missing for the US market is the tire size. We rock crawl in the US or at least we have to have the ability to rock crawl. I don't see a larger tire fitting in the wheel-wells. otherwise it checks so many boxes. Thanks for showing us.
I love the original 90, owned 3 of them. The new 90 isn’t as aesthetically pleasing, but I definitely like the look of this, hopefully they’ll do a 90” version. But I think it’s way overpriced.
Good job, Andre. Why was your dance partner so nervous? We need to see a media team actually get to beat up one of these mysterious so-called utilitarian off-road machines. Every so-called test we have seen to date has been in a very controlled environment. Yes, they made it through the water and up the hill but so will a 1990 Subaru. Time will tell, as it always does, so do I pull up a lawn chair and watch or keep my reservation and jump in the deep end.
Ineos grenade... it's going to blow up
It's a bmw b58. Not going to happen.