*_Frequently Asked Questions - FAQ!_* 「Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah」 is not a stable time loop. The future changed when Emmy went back to it, which would be impossible if the timeline was always predetermined. So it's a split timeline. Here are answers to frequently asked questions, but do note that there just isn't any official explanation for some: *_What was King Ghidorah doing in all that time before 1992 in timeline #2? Why didn't it appear?_* As it turns out, the 「GVKG Super Complete Works」 book fills this detail in. On the battle map in page 44, it says King Ghidorah was "sleeping" in the Pacific Ocean until the Futurians gave the command for him to attack in 1992 (the present). *_If Shindo couldn't go back in time to 1944 because he and his past self would occupy the same space and time and one of them would vanish, how could Mecha-King Ghidorah travel back to 1992 with King Ghidorah still laying on the sea floor? -_* No official explanation has been uncovered about this, so the best we have is conjecture. You can reason that MKG's abrupt materialization over Hokkaido was so impactful that it instantly split history, allowing both the cyborg body in Hokkaido and the dying body in Okhotsk to coexist. Whereas KIDS stealthily arriving on Lagos Island with Shindo aboard probably would not have been enough to fork the timeline on its own, allowing the possibility of them meeting and for one to vanish. Alternatively, maybe Hokkaido and the Sea of Okhotsk aren't close enough to satisfy the "same PLACE" criteria of Glenchico's stated "same place and same time," so it wouldn't have been a problem unless MKG got close enough to the other body. Or, since we don't see Ghidorah's body in the sea after MKG arrives... perhaps there is no contradiction and it really did disappear. It's never referenced again, after all - only MKG's wreckage appears. It could also have been another lie from the Futurians, meant to keep the powerful and well-connected Shindo from getting an up-close look at their technology. *_Is Godzilla 1954 a Godzillasaurus (in the Heisei continuity)? -_* No confirmation one way or the other that the original G was retconned into being a mutated Godzillasaurus, that we've yet found. The original hypothesis by Dr. Kyohei Yamane is that G54 is a large prehistoric reptile that was awakened by nuclear testing (not mutated, like the Godzillasaurus). *_If Emmy went to timeline #2's year 2204, and not the 2204 she came from (#1), how does Morrys recognize her? Are there two Emmy's in timeline #2? -_* // *Q: How does Morrys know that Emmy was successful in changing the timeline? Is he the same Morrys from timeline 1 to realize that this change happened?* A: Maybe he doesn't know. Or Emmy told him what she did. The most that happens in his scene is that Emmy asks to turn King Ghidorah into a cyborg [to save Japan in the past], Morrys tells her Japan is a failure, and she says "Yeah I know but plz tho." // *Q: Does this timeline's [#2] Morrys know who Emmy is or is she a random person to him? Is she a duplicate of an Emmy already existing in timeline #2 who he knows?* A: Could be either one. Maybe changing things in 1992 had catastrophic effects and prevented Emmy from ever being born. Or she was just impersonating the Emmy of that timeline long enough to get MKG made. It's not explained. *_How do the timeline #2 versions of Wilson and Glenchico, who didn’t travel back to 1944, remember that Japan became a superpower in timeline #1 if Godzilla destroys it in timeline #2? Wouldn’t they never have needed to travel back to 1992 at all? -_* Unclear! We didn’t find any kind of explanation for this one. You could hypothesize that MOTHER, which they remain inside during the mission, allows the people within it to keep their memories of past timelines even if they didn't cause the branch themselves. It would also have to somehow render them immune to cause-and-effect chains created by a new timeline. Fujio, who was inside MOTHER with them, but didn't go back in time, also demonstrates cross-timeline memory by recognizing that Godzilla was no longer in the Sea of Japan in timeline #2, lending credence to this assertion... But again, no official explanation. *_Wouldn't there technically exist an infinite number of timelines, created by any miniscule action taken (the butterfly effect)? How, or why, are there only 3 timelines? -_* This is not commented on; there may be more or there might not. But there's only 3 that are relevant or we ever see.
As regards the question of 84 and Biollante, both GvKG and RoM III seem to follow the time travel model of the movie Frequency, in which a new timeline appears, wholesale in the 'present,' instantly replacing the past timeline, without having replaced that timeline. I.E. everything that happened in the original timeline has still happened, and the new timeline appears 'already in progress' in its place. Hence, 84 and Biollante still happened, and simply give way to the new timeline at the moment of time travel- hence characters being aware of Godzilla having vanished (from the spot he was located in at the end of Biollante, it is explicitly mentioned). The new Godzilla appears in the spot he was in the Bering Sea because he has indeed never moved from that spot, but people still remember the old timeline, and its effects (such as Shindo's death) still persist, because the new Godzilla was never erased from history, just replaced by a new present day status quo without overwriting the old one. The timelines switched in mid-stream, in 1992, rather than creating a whole new alternate 1944-1991. This also answers the last question about Wilson and Grenchiko remembering timeline 1, because old timelines are not erased from people's memory- they're just replaced 'from the present moment, onward.'
The conversation set off by that "some worrying findings" message lasted until about one in the morning and I felt like I had earned another degree by the end of it. I can't believe the Futurians' computer, which no English version of this movie properly explains, was a metaphor for Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers Douglas MacArthur this whole time
Hi there, love your work on the channel, but I kinda hate that this you are probably right, because that means that Japan won originally, which kinda really annoys me, the new Godzilla getting defeated so easily despite surviving a volcano annoys me and now it’s also a different Godzilla technically, meaning that it’s not one continuous story of Godzilla in the Heisei era and really annoys me that Godzilla in trog and GVB is a slightly different character and it’s not one continuous story of Godzilla, I wish the stable time loop theory was true. Could you change my mind
I think Timeline #1 just establishes that the ANEB is the Heisei Oxygen Destroyer - it worked like a charm once, but now the inventor's dead and no one can recreate it
@@michaelcallari i thought they said that he was to strong, but it still annoys me narratively that it’s a different Godzilla who never fought Biollante or just in general experienced the last 2 films and actually makes dislike the movie a lot more
I mean, the later Heisei movies establish that he did fight Biollante and all that. You can't take a fake newspaper that flashes by too seriously, we just enjoy torturing ourselves
I love how the Heisei has such a complex timeline, it makes this era of Godzilla more interesting in my opinion with all the possible timelines there are!
@@apexatrovinator7510 it's only a mess if you're looking at vs king ghidorah, other than that the heisei era has the best continuity and writing out of the 3 cinematic universes this franchise has
@@Kaiju-bm4ts Yeah, but unfortunately, it’s still a black mark on an otherwise great saga. I’m really sad with how that movie turned out, King Ghidorah’s one of, if not my favorite Godzilla Kaijū.
Amazing work but I think there is a simpler explanation for the "two Ghidorahs paradox": the old King Ghidorah was erased BECAUSE of the paradox, and THAT started the third timeline; a third timeline with a Mecha King Ghidorah from the second timeline and no original King Ghidorah corpse to salvage in its own future. This doesn't matter, because they WANTED to create a future in the third timeline where they wouldn't need to build Mecha King Ghidorah (by defeating Godzilla). By contrast, they didn't want that guy to go to the past because if the past version of the guy vanished it would add an unnecesary element of unpredicatbility to the new (second) timeline they were trying to create.
After watching this and re-watching big action bills history of Godzilla vs king Ghidorah, these timelines are much clearer to me more than before. Thanks wikizilla for always being on top of things
Hi Wikizilla, well done on this updated video on one of the most controversial subject of the very unstable plot element that is time travel that really caused a lot of ongoing discussions, arguments, and not to mention headaches. So far, it made a lot of sense of what you just explained in the video and i would give credit to the dedication in going out the way in researching this very difficult subject. Mad respect to you all!!!
I don't usually think of time'travel as interfering or changing the past or future but rather creating a brand new timeline, that's what I think Godzilla vs King Ghidorah did created, rather than just briefly changing the past they changed all history.
This is video is great for casual Godzilla fans! I myself never got into the nitty gritty of the Heisei Series lore, so watching this makes it easy to understand what exactly happened with all the time travelling.
What I never understood is why the Futurians travelled to the 'present day' of 1992 in the first place. They could easily have just went straight to 1944 and executed their plan without letting anyone in 1992 know.
Same reason as the Xiliens' ruse in '65: it's a movie :P (But seriously, Miki's powers allowed them to confirm that the Godzillasaurus on Lagos and the second Godzilla were one and the same. I'll grant that the other two didn't really do anything.)
Thank you SSSOOOOOOOOOOOO much for explaining this! Being a time travel nut, I always was interested in hearing another fan's interpretation of the plot. But this is my favorite! Makes things much clearer! Thanks again! :D
To sum it all up, Hulk from Avengers: Endgame said it best "If you go into the past, that past becomes your future, and your former present becomes the past, which can't now be changed by your new future!"
It still doesn't explain how the present people still remember Godzilla, when the Futurian moved Godzillasaurous to another location. Everybody's memories should be changed. Also, what was King Ghidora been doing in 40 years, but suddenly he made an appearance on the present day? More importantly, when the Futurian explained about Godzilla destroyed Japan in the future, why Emmy didn't become suspicious of their lies? Especially, why did she agreed to released the 3 Dorats? I thought Emmy is a territorist.
I'd like to think that Rebirth of Mothra takes place in Timeline #1 after Godzilla becomes forever dormant, letting Mothra become the only protector Earth has. It'd also be pretty cool if Grand King Ghidorah is the same species of the one in the timeline the Futurians come from that is used for the alien DNA to make to artificial Dorat pets so we can have both a classic alien Ghidorah and the artificial one in the same universe (just different timelines)
Yeah, but the Elias are different from the Cosmos, whose existence wouldn't be altered by Godzilla staying dormant, and Desghidorah, Dagarah and Grand King Ghidorah would've still existed in the other 2 timelines, while in G V Gigan Rex the narrator (most likely Miki) implied that there hadn't been a kaiju attack in 25 years. Plus, Eternal Mothra would have likely aided Junior against the Gigans.
@@theultimatememelord5494 oh yeah I forgot all about the difference between the fairies so that's an L. Though I think I'd just explain away the first two baddies as just never have awakened. Though if Grand King did show up, itd be in 1998 where Junior would have to fight him instead of Mothra since Mothra went to space and maybe didn't even lay an egg in this timeline. Inconsistencies aside, Post GvD Junior vs Grand Ghidorah actually sounds sick as hell.
@@sifimatt12345 Yeah, it does. But Belvera was going to awaken Desghidorah regardless of Godzilla being around or not. EDIT: And again, the 25 years thing.
I love these videos, I had a feeling the timeline went like this. It makes perfect sense, I was thinking the same thing when I studied the heisei timeline in my free time.
This was such a fun video and exploration! RIP Kazuki Omori! The only remaining questions I have after this are: what the hell was King Ghidorah doing for the time between 1954 when they'd awakened to 1992? This is less of a plot hole and more a fun thing to speculate on. The other question I have is that the events of Return of Godzilla and Godzilla vs. Biollante have to be different at least somewhat correct? Because if they were the exact same....Timeline 1 would just happen again due to the anti-nuclear bacteria shot into him at the end of Biollante. I think that Return and Biollante can have happened to be VERY similar but with things slightly altered, like Return and Biollante would have had a much BIGGER Godzilla for one. On top of this the modern nuclear weapons being used in his creation probably altered the effectiveness of the ANB. So maybe Return/Biollante did get shifted to happen in say 1989/1990 with MOSTLY the same plotline but with minor differences. Like say in Timeline 3 Bigger Godzilla still killed Gondo and fought Biollante but the ANB was less effective. You could make it all work with very minor tweaks but I think some differences would have to happen in order for the whole puzzle to fit together. Regardless this is very fun to chat and theorize about!
It really does make sense considering the first 2 failed to fell the big G, this one thing clinches it considering all that fancy tech used for Mecha G and Moguera didn't work out so 3rd time's the charm.
The one thing that strikes me as odd is that there were no records of King Ghidorah having attacked Japan or anywhere else prior to his then-present day attack in the revised timeline. I know that's not a guaranteed event, but still.
My attempted explanation for Godzilla seemingly being ‘created’ in 1989 despite having being mutated before 1984 is technically, he is created in both circumstances. This is because prior to GvK, Godzilla is simply referred to as 3rd Gen Godzilla, while as of 1991, he is referred to as "Powered-Up" 3rd Gen Godzilla, which is carried into future Heisei films. This mutation is what caused his increase in height and ridded him of the ANAB infection. In a sense, a new Godzilla was created. I could be wrong though.
This is the problem when messing around with time travel. I think Toho just wanted to do something different that they hadn’t tried with Godzilla before and didn’t care about continuity. That also might explain why the Millinium era of films did not follow an ongoing continuity, so that the writers and producers wouldn’t have to worry about it. Kudos to the creator of this video for all the hard work and research and theories.
So, to summarise: timeline 1 occurs with both Godzilla Gen 1 and Gen 3 being created by the Castle Bravo test, 1954 attack on Tokyo and the death of the Godzilla Gen 1 occurs, and Gen 3 stays hidden until 1984, thus resulting in the events leading up to the start of Vs. King Ghidorah - has the timeline remained untampered, Godzilla would have remained out-of-action. The creation of timeline 2 changes the origins of Gen 3 only (the Futurians are unaware that 2 Godzillas were created by Castle Bravo) but not necessarily the events that occured in 1984 and Vs. Biollante according to the followups, but also undoes the effects of the Anti-Nuclear Energy Bacteria Godzilla was infected with. I have to wonder though: would Japan in timeline 1 have been destroyed by Destoroyah since there was no Godzilla to stop it? Its creation was tied to the Gen 1 Godzilla, which still came ashore. Obviously the next three films would not happen as-is or at all (no Mechagodzilla, and quite possibly no Spacegodzilla either depending on which theory of its creation is accurate).
Timeline 1 probably had just Mothra fighting Battra with Mothra probably winning, no MechaGodzilla, Godzilla Junior is raised in isolation by Rodan on their island, No SpaceGodzilla due to less G-Cells in Space or SpaceGodzilla floated through space in the opposite direction of Earth, Destroyah probably still attacked but the military probably found their own way of killing him we don’t know about, and/or maybe something else like Mothra, and/or even Godzilla Junior, and Rodan getting involved somehow with them beating Destroyah with some combination of them dying then the survivors just not bothering Japan again thus allowing Japan to prosper.
8:53 "Same Matter can't occupy the same space" as JCVD from 1994s Timecop would state. This bit of time-travel conundrum really baffles me as its not really time-travel but more about matter not being able to be in the same space. Eg:- there's a lamp post, a person can lean on it, put their hand on it but they cannot be in the exact space as the lamp post without the impossible ability to merge ones atomic structure with the lamp post. Or in teleportation on how dangerous it can potentially be for foreign objects to be in the same space (David Cronenbergs The Fly) It could be possible for the Shindo's meet but the Futurians were very crafty as to sway the others from not doing this as it could've compromised their plans in some way. Personal thoughts
I think the best way to summarize this plot. The futurians ending up creating the heisei Godzilla without realizing this, why the events of 1984 and Biollante still happened. Thus, they made him.
This just shows why I've never been able to take the official toho materials at face value as they rarely are taken from the director/screenwriter. Not to mention they feature so many inconsistencies that can even change crim the various printings.
Split into a third timeline or not, King Ghidorah still should have been there when Mecha King Ghidorah was there. The best explanation is the one they give for why Shindo can't go back in time. Basically when Mecha King Ghidorah goes back it causes the one wounded under water to be erased.
We expand on this in the pinned comment - it's also possible the Futurians were lying and neither has to disappear. Although I do like the idea that Emmy was making a 50-50 bet the cyborg she was piloting wouldn't disappear as soon as it manifested in Shinjuku and send her falling to her death.
So if you change something that didn't happen in the original timeline if you return to your future it will never be the same and you can no longer access them even if you stop yourself it will no longer be the same so that means The Return of godzilla and godzilla vs bio will no longer be accessible and if they were it would change something that didn't happen or did happen.
So if this is correct (Which I'm sure it is) then Emi is the linchpin that holds the Heisei era together. So by going back she inadvertently helped create MechaGodzilla, M.O.G.U.E.R.A. Reawaken Mothra and Battra and set up circumstances in which SpaceGodzilla and Destroyah would be born.
I have two theories as to why mecha-king Ghidorah was able to appear in the third timeline when Ghidorah’s non-cybernetic corpse was also around. The first is that when Mecha-King Ghidorah came to fight Godzilla, the monster was coming to the past with 40% of his organic self, as the organic middle head and parts of the wings were destroyed by Godzilla (alongside the possibility that sea-life was perhaps eating at Ghidorah’s corpse). When he came, it’s possible that Mecha-King Ghidorah under the rules of the Futerians time travel measures was indeed a different monster from the more organic Ghidorah. A second theory is that if a person from the future meets his/her past self, and causes one of them to disappear, this could be because either the past or future self of the person was killed or altered. It’s possible that for safety perceptions the Futerians never want a person of the future meeting their past self in order to avoid deaths and disappearances, alongside any other complications or alterations between past or future versions of people. In the film, Mecha-King Ghidorah and organic King Ghidorah never meet canonically, so theirs little worry for either version vanishing.
I love godzilla vs king ghidorah, but one of its biggest flaws is the time travel storyline is really convoluted unless you do legit research, so props for you guys to tackle this for confused fans to swallow a little easier.
Yeah, I tend to pretty much always hate the idea of time travel in just about any movie. Particularly because the idea of alternate timelines and multiverses, to me, is just stupid as hell and even more illogical than the notion of time travel itself. At least the "Fixed Time Loop" theory leaves it all as one timeline, one sequence of events that always happens and never changes. No matter what is possible, things only happen one way. They always time traveled, they always created Heisei Godzilla, and they always caused history by trying to change it. I wish the film had leaned more into that line of thinking. Such as characters wondering why they all still remember Godzilla if they hypothetically now exist in a timeline without Godzilla. The world of Japan in the new "altered timeline" being exactly as it was before they time traveled.
Awesome research and explanation! I'd guess that Ghidorah while in the ocean would vanish as MKG made his appearance in the main timeline. These 3 different timelines while being confusing definitely make the heisei era very interesting. I wonder if Toho will ever introduce a time travel plot in a Goji film again?
My theory is that Mecha King Ghidorah does disappear but it’s right after he and Godzilla battles because in “Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla 2” all that the JSDF brings back is the third head of Mecha King Ghidorah
one more thing to note that the original godzilla show up in 1954 in all timelines. Proof that it happen during the branch off is that the editor ask the male character about something involving his book which he replied that godzilla was no longer around to himself. That proof that the original wasn't the same one, of course since the original died from the oxygen destroyer than the test produce two godzilla not one and they got the wrong one.
Are.yoy gonna make separate kaiju profile for Behemoth, Methusulah, Scylla, Amhuluk, and Tiamat? Since we have more information about some of them thanks to comics
Long story short: by traveling back in time to the 40’s and teleporting the Godzillasaurus to the bearing Sea, it was exposed to a nuclear accident in the area in the late 70’s which turned it into the Godzilla that appeared in 1984.
If there was one godzillasaurus on the island, then there were probably more. At least there had to be enough godzillasaurs to maintain a breeding population. Personally, I like to interpret this film so that timeline 1 represents the Showa era, with the godzillasaurus we see being the second Godzilla from "Godzilla Raids Again", and timelines 2 & 3 represent the Hesei era. I suppose the Millennium era could represent additional timelines.
Honestly, it seems just as likely that the only reason time travel was included in this movie is that the Terminator films were so popular (well, hey there, M-11), and they then just didn’t think out the technical aspects of it properly. I know that doesn’t offer any *in-universe* explanations, and we have to take it into account when considering the events of future movies, but I suspect that’s the real world reason for it. Also… Sigh-gusa? Do I sense a bit of displeasure directed toward the character of Miki? 😎
r.i.p kozuki omori. i honestly view the timeline as splitting from the godzillasaurus fate with ghidorah taking his spot with him being put into the sea(which was where i got confused as i thought he got erased at 1st.) with later on him getting it from the sub with an unseen different godzillasaurus becoming 1954 as the events of it still happen and characters remember him/godzilla still feeling betrayed by humanity(really puts in perspective junior causing him to calm down afterwards.) with the other timeline being where mecha kg came from(did even before that theory wonder why the just killed one wasn't used instead of his long dead corpse.) or heisei godzilla disappearing for a bit only to be brought back by the change. also find it cool in hindsight it tricks the audience by thinking japan became a superpower by heisei big g/trick by the futerions only to in destroyah imply it's actually a now grown junior protecting the country(with how he has a better relationship with humans.) from threats/jealous nations that for all we know could've helped out the futerions actions.
I’m kinda glad that 1984’s Return wasn’t…*apparently* stricken from the timeline, although you’d think taking a lava bath would only piss Godzilla off, instead of giving him a heel-face turn. I always wondered what the future movies had been like if the ‘84 incarnation had remained, instead of being superseded by the “anti/hero of the world” style Goji that came after
I hate to think that post-GVKG Goji isn't the same one from '84, or at least doesn't have his memories. Part of the reason he's my favourite incarnation is the amount of character development he gets.
Man, this is some Dragon Ball Z/Super level of time traveling, dude. But thankfully not as elaborate. Also I'm so glad this video returned but more updated.
Why didn't being teleported to bottom of the sea crush or at very least drown Godzillasaurus. Was he already adapted to deep sea & also full amphibious?
Disclaimer that I've only ever been able to watch an English dub, but the official explanation leaves me with one question based on dialogue from the movie. At some point between Godzilla rising again and destroying the UFO/Time Machine, one of the Futurians (Wilson, I think) throws out the somewhat nonsensical line "This Godzilla isn't friendly." It could just be dub weirdness, but there was never any iteration of a friendly Heisei Godzilla, so what is he referring to? As I joke (mostly) I once told someone it's because he somehow came from the Showa timeline. While I was joking, one of the many theories of how time travel "really" works is that it just plain doesn't, and any "successful" time travel is just a jump to a parallel universe out of sync with the time traveler's native universe. This would explain Wilson's line because came from the Showa timeline... but it also means he's an idiot because he came to pitch his idea to a version of Japan that he thinks has experienced the entire Showa canon apart from Destroy All Monsters.
We didn't look at how that line goes in Japanese, but maybe he was trying to contrast the Godzillasaurus saving the Japanese garrison with Godzilla's impending obliteration of Japan.
(Reposted from Discord) ...yeah, uh... I still think I like the old video better. Less headache-inducing and honestly much more satisfying when you keep its context in mind when watching all the Heisei films in sequential order. XD In all seriousness, tho, the one question I have to ask is; By the logic of this movie, it expects us to say that across ALL THREE TIMELINES, with every check and deviation taken into account, Omori means to tell us that the SAME Godzilla, mutated by varying means of radiation exposure giving him the SAME appearance(s), JUST SO HAPPENED to attack Japan in both 1984 and 1989? I know it's the logic of a kaiju film, but come on. The Godzillasaurus in the second timeline was wounded gravely before the Futurians teleported away to the Bering Sea. It could have aged. It could have healed substantially differently. You mean to say that regardless if it was exposed to the fallout of *Castle Bravo* or affected by the radiation of the Soviet submarine, it ended up looking IDENTICAL to its 1984 and 1989 incarnations, and was awakened near Daikoku Island exactly THREE MONTHS after its eruption as shown in _The Return of Godzilla_ ? This isn't a minor deviation that wouldn't have any recurring consequences on the character. This is a MAJOR shift in continuity, to have the SAME Godzilla be born by two COMPLETELY different means, and JUST SO HAPPENS to be present at the SAME PLACE at the SAME TIME in all 3 continuities (the '89 sub crash notwithstanding). This is why doing a movie where time travel logic is a focal part of the plot and not just a background element used to tell an interesting story, like with _The Terminator_ or _Back to the Future_ , is an inane idea.
The problem is that the Heisei series originally hinted that the Heisei Godzilla was the same as the original 1954 one. The 1984 movie implies they're the same entity, and there's nothing established in the later movies that they're in fact differen radiated members of the same species. It's only in Godzilla vs Destoroyah that it's definitively established the original one died from the Oxygen Destroyer and the Heisei one is a separate entity. GvD hence retcons the previous entries. There's no indication in Godzilla vs King Ghidorah that there were two different Godzillas who were formed in 1954. Throughout the whole movie, you're led to believe the original 1954 one saved Shindo, attacked Japan ten years later, somehow reemerged in 1984, fought Biollante, and got infected by ANEB. You're then led to believe that Godzilla formed from contacting a Russian sub and then did the same things before fighting King Ghidorah, and then Mecha King Ghidorah. My own view is that GvKG operates on the branching timelines theory. But GvD establishes there were two Godzillas and the original one died in 1954, so the branching timelines theory no longer works because GvKG got retconed.
So let me get this straight is the 1984 Godzilla the shows Godzilla after terror of mechgodzilla or is it the Godzilla from 1954?? This video is so confusing but good 👍
I think Millennium is anthology with every movies (except Final Wars and Tokyo SOS) are direct sequel to 1954 movie Final Wars completely is it's own thing with its own timeline
That’s the point of the branched timeline. In the original timeline, both creatures were mutated by the H-bomb. The second one being larger (80 meters) than the first (50 meters) simply to being 30 years older and having more time to grow. In the second branch, only the first by the bomb and the second by the sub after being teleported. The confusing part is when since the newspaper kind of throws a monkey wrench into the works. I still believe it happened in the 70’s and the more modern nuclear material is what caused the 1984 Godzilla to be larger than the original. The Futurians’ teleporting of the creature did nothing but change when and where that Godzilla was mutated and the loop timeline’s explanation of why everyone in 1992 still remembered him and why Biollante still exists in GvSG having a presence here.
Oh yeah? Maybe that comic called Godzilla rulers of earth I think it's called? Related to the film? Because it uses the same design and has a ton of kaijus
The only part I would question is Godzilla never recovering from the aneb. There is a line in the movie about Godzilla defending Japan. So maybe he recovered but played nice? Also.. if the time loop theory is "busted" now Biollante although remembered could NOT be the source for SpaceGodzilla. If Biollante was the source then SpaceGodzilla would of appeared in timelines 1, and 2, and 3. Timeliness 1 Godzilla did not have the power up from the sub encounter in 92, or help from G-force, so SpaceGodzilla would have beaten him and destroyed the world. So with that, it is safe to say that it was Mothra that got the g cells in space. The characters from vs. Spacegodzilla would not be aware of the branching timelines, so would not know that theory 1 for space godzilla couldn't happen.
I though Emi said that in the future Godzilla protected Japan when they returned from the past the first time ( referring to the first timeline) So wouldn't that have meant that Godzilla somehow recovered from the ANEB at some point?
That is never commented on specifically for the Heisei universe. He might be mutated from a Godzillasaurus, or he might still have been the same giant prehistoric marine reptile that he was in the original movie.
My least favorite part of this movie is that, if you think about it, the futurians are the good guys trying to make sure all nations are on a level playing field and one isn't just way more powerful than the others
All this time, the rest of the Heisei Godzilla movies was in a third timeline?! Man, I’ve seen a lot of time travelers in my day; Trunks from Dragon Ball, Silver from Sonic the Hedgehog, even Lucina from Fire Emblem. And whatever changes they made, may or may not have gotten the idea from this? Was it how the rewriting of the Mortal Kombat series came to be when MK9 was released? Did someone from NetherRealm Studios watch Godzilla VS. King Ghidorah at one point and tell the guys working in the studio, “Let’s rewrite Mortal Kombat using this new timeline shtick from this Godzilla movie I watched a literal hour ago” then years later, most didn’t like the story because of all the changes and retcons they made to the original timeline, lookin’ at you Quan Chi. then MK11 showed up and created a bunch of shenanigans related to time, consequently resetting the timeline in the process to create a new one for MK1? Okay, that was a very long comment that had absolutely nothing to do with Godzilla, but I better not hear NRS confirm that they got that very idea from this movie. At least Intelligent Systems didn’t put this new timeline idea into Fire Emblem Awakening, right? 😊😶 IS didn’t put this new timeline idea in FE Awakening, right?
I personally had theorized that when MKG is brought back in time, his self in the ocean vanishes. Afterwards, Japan salvages the machinery off of his body and leaves his comatose body where it lay, leaving a badly wounded, two headed monster that is barely alive, yet can be repaired with futurian technology, which would be sent back to drag godzilla to sea. Yes this basically would mean King Ghidorah would be suffering an eternity of being in a coma for 200 years, repaired with technology, sent back to fight against Godzilla, nearly die, get the machinery stripped off him, then lay in another coma for another 200 years forever. Also, considering his synthetic nature, it's possible he doesn't age and any genetic damage done would be repaired in the future as well.
Considering this Ghidorah is innocent 3 dorats (initially under mind controlled with attempt to strangle Godzilla) not Sadistic Planet destroyer definitely make him even more tragic
![CHILE vs. BRASIL [1-2] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 9](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5ObJt_71AYc/mqdefault.jpg)
*_Frequently Asked Questions - FAQ!_* 「Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah」 is not a stable time loop. The future changed when Emmy went back to it, which would be impossible if the timeline was always predetermined. So it's a split timeline. Here are answers to frequently asked questions, but do note that there just isn't any official explanation for some:
*_What was King Ghidorah doing in all that time before 1992 in timeline #2? Why didn't it appear?_* As it turns out, the 「GVKG Super Complete Works」 book fills this detail in. On the battle map in page 44, it says King Ghidorah was "sleeping" in the Pacific Ocean until the Futurians gave the command for him to attack in 1992 (the present).
*_If Shindo couldn't go back in time to 1944 because he and his past self would occupy the same space and time and one of them would vanish, how could Mecha-King Ghidorah travel back to 1992 with King Ghidorah still laying on the sea floor? -_* No official explanation has been uncovered about this, so the best we have is conjecture. You can reason that MKG's abrupt materialization over Hokkaido was so impactful that it instantly split history, allowing both the cyborg body in Hokkaido and the dying body in Okhotsk to coexist. Whereas KIDS stealthily arriving on Lagos Island with Shindo aboard probably would not have been enough to fork the timeline on its own, allowing the possibility of them meeting and for one to vanish. Alternatively, maybe Hokkaido and the Sea of Okhotsk aren't close enough to satisfy the "same PLACE" criteria of Glenchico's stated "same place and same time," so it wouldn't have been a problem unless MKG got close enough to the other body. Or, since we don't see Ghidorah's body in the sea after MKG arrives... perhaps there is no contradiction and it really did disappear. It's never referenced again, after all - only MKG's wreckage appears. It could also have been another lie from the Futurians, meant to keep the powerful and well-connected Shindo from getting an up-close look at their technology.
*_Is Godzilla 1954 a Godzillasaurus (in the Heisei continuity)? -_* No confirmation one way or the other that the original G was retconned into being a mutated Godzillasaurus, that we've yet found. The original hypothesis by Dr. Kyohei Yamane is that G54 is a large prehistoric reptile that was awakened by nuclear testing (not mutated, like the Godzillasaurus).
*_If Emmy went to timeline #2's year 2204, and not the 2204 she came from (#1), how does Morrys recognize her? Are there two Emmy's in timeline #2? -_*
// *Q: How does Morrys know that Emmy was successful in changing the timeline? Is he the same Morrys from timeline 1 to realize that this change happened?* A: Maybe he doesn't know. Or Emmy told him what she did. The most that happens in his scene is that Emmy asks to turn King Ghidorah into a cyborg [to save Japan in the past], Morrys tells her Japan is a failure, and she says "Yeah I know but plz tho."
// *Q: Does this timeline's [#2] Morrys know who Emmy is or is she a random person to him? Is she a duplicate of an Emmy already existing in timeline #2 who he knows?* A: Could be either one. Maybe changing things in 1992 had catastrophic effects and prevented Emmy from ever being born. Or she was just impersonating the Emmy of that timeline long enough to get MKG made. It's not explained.
*_How do the timeline #2 versions of Wilson and Glenchico, who didn’t travel back to 1944, remember that Japan became a superpower in timeline #1 if Godzilla destroys it in timeline #2? Wouldn’t they never have needed to travel back to 1992 at all? -_* Unclear! We didn’t find any kind of explanation for this one. You could hypothesize that MOTHER, which they remain inside during the mission, allows the people within it to keep their memories of past timelines even if they didn't cause the branch themselves. It would also have to somehow render them immune to cause-and-effect chains created by a new timeline. Fujio, who was inside MOTHER with them, but didn't go back in time, also demonstrates cross-timeline memory by recognizing that Godzilla was no longer in the Sea of Japan in timeline #2, lending credence to this assertion... But again, no official explanation.
*_Wouldn't there technically exist an infinite number of timelines, created by any miniscule action taken (the butterfly effect)? How, or why, are there only 3 timelines? -_* This is not commented on; there may be more or there might not. But there's only 3 that are relevant or we ever see.
Do a millennium godzilla profile please!
@@Godzilla-jr5giThat’ll be a long video. 5 Godzillas over 6 movies.
As regards the question of 84 and Biollante, both GvKG and RoM III seem to follow the time travel model of the movie Frequency, in which a new timeline appears, wholesale in the 'present,' instantly replacing the past timeline, without having replaced that timeline. I.E. everything that happened in the original timeline has still happened, and the new timeline appears 'already in progress' in its place. Hence, 84 and Biollante still happened, and simply give way to the new timeline at the moment of time travel- hence characters being aware of Godzilla having vanished (from the spot he was located in at the end of Biollante, it is explicitly mentioned).
The new Godzilla appears in the spot he was in the Bering Sea because he has indeed never moved from that spot, but people still remember the old timeline, and its effects (such as Shindo's death) still persist, because the new Godzilla was never erased from history, just replaced by a new present day status quo without overwriting the old one. The timelines switched in mid-stream, in 1992, rather than creating a whole new alternate 1944-1991.
This also answers the last question about Wilson and Grenchiko remembering timeline 1, because old timelines are not erased from people's memory- they're just replaced 'from the present moment, onward.'
WIKIZILLA, PLEASE MAKE A SHOWA GODZILLA KAIJU PROFILE! PLEASE....
I KNEW Ghidorah was just "sleeping" until the futurians gave him commands.
The conversation set off by that "some worrying findings" message lasted until about one in the morning and I felt like I had earned another degree by the end of it. I can't believe the Futurians' computer, which no English version of this movie properly explains, was a metaphor for Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers Douglas MacArthur this whole time
I literally just learned about that guy today in History class lmao
Hi there, love your work on the channel, but I kinda hate that this you are probably right, because that means that Japan won originally, which kinda really annoys me, the new Godzilla getting defeated so easily despite surviving a volcano annoys me and now it’s also a different Godzilla technically, meaning that it’s not one continuous story of Godzilla in the Heisei era and really annoys me that Godzilla in trog and GVB is a slightly different character and it’s not one continuous story of Godzilla, I wish the stable time loop theory was true. Could you change my mind
I think Timeline #1 just establishes that the ANEB is the Heisei Oxygen Destroyer - it worked like a charm once, but now the inventor's dead and no one can recreate it
@@michaelcallari i thought they said that he was to strong, but it still annoys me narratively that it’s a different Godzilla who never fought Biollante or just in general experienced the last 2 films and actually makes dislike the movie a lot more
I mean, the later Heisei movies establish that he did fight Biollante and all that. You can't take a fake newspaper that flashes by too seriously, we just enjoy torturing ourselves
I love how the Heisei has such a complex timeline, it makes this era of Godzilla more interesting in my opinion with all the possible timelines there are!
More like a mess
@@apexatrovinator7510 it's only a mess if you're looking at vs king ghidorah, other than that the heisei era has the best continuity and writing out of the 3 cinematic universes this franchise has
@@Kaiju-bm4ts
Yeah, but unfortunately, it’s still a black mark on an otherwise great saga. I’m really sad with how that movie turned out, King Ghidorah’s one of, if not my favorite Godzilla Kaijū.
Amazing work but I think there is a simpler explanation for the "two Ghidorahs paradox": the old King Ghidorah was erased BECAUSE of the paradox, and THAT started the third timeline; a third timeline with a Mecha King Ghidorah from the second timeline and no original King Ghidorah corpse to salvage in its own future. This doesn't matter, because they WANTED to create a future in the third timeline where they wouldn't need to build Mecha King Ghidorah (by defeating Godzilla). By contrast, they didn't want that guy to go to the past because if the past version of the guy vanished it would add an unnecesary element of unpredicatbility to the new (second) timeline they were trying to create.
That is a valid headcanon, IMO -Titano
@@Wikizilla hello wikizilla
Yeah, but would the human characters still remember King Ghidorah even tho he vanished from history in that headcanon?
Another thing to consider.
After watching this and re-watching big action bills history of Godzilla vs king Ghidorah, these timelines are much clearer to me more than before. Thanks wikizilla for always being on top of things
Hi Wikizilla, well done on this updated video on one of the most controversial subject of the very unstable plot element that is time travel that really caused a lot of ongoing discussions, arguments, and not to mention headaches. So far, it made a lot of sense of what you just explained in the video and i would give credit to the dedication in going out the way in researching this very difficult subject. Mad respect to you all!!!
Agreed
I don't usually think of time'travel as interfering or changing the past or future but rather creating a brand new timeline, that's what I think Godzilla vs King Ghidorah did created, rather than just briefly changing the past they changed all history.
10:36 funniest part of the video. Moments like that make tracking down the right details quite the heartache.
I wasn't expecting a video like this today, but I'm not complaining. In any case, have a monstrously Happy Valentine's Day.
This is video is great for casual Godzilla fans! I myself never got into the nitty gritty of the Heisei Series lore, so watching this makes it easy to understand what exactly happened with all the time travelling.
What I never understood is why the Futurians travelled to the 'present day' of 1992 in the first place. They could easily have just went straight to 1944 and executed their plan without letting anyone in 1992 know.
Same reason as the Xiliens' ruse in '65: it's a movie :P
(But seriously, Miki's powers allowed them to confirm that the Godzillasaurus on Lagos and the second Godzilla were one and the same. I'll grant that the other two didn't really do anything.)
Thank you SSSOOOOOOOOOOOO much for explaining this! Being a time travel nut, I always was interested in hearing another fan's interpretation of the plot. But this is my favorite! Makes things much clearer! Thanks again! :D
Great to have you guys continue working on your videos
To sum it all up, Hulk from Avengers: Endgame said it best
"If you go into the past, that past becomes your future, and your former present becomes the past, which can't now be changed by your new future!"
Yea
The waits always worth it these guys only drop bangers.
WikiZilla explained all the Godzilla vs King Ghidorah lore better than Toho even tried to solve it.
That's why wikizilla exists dummy
It still doesn't explain how the present people still remember Godzilla, when the Futurian moved Godzillasaurous to another location. Everybody's memories should be changed. Also, what was King Ghidora been doing in 40 years, but suddenly he made an appearance on the present day? More importantly, when the Futurian explained about Godzilla destroyed Japan in the future, why Emmy didn't become suspicious of their lies? Especially, why did she agreed to released the 3 Dorats? I thought Emmy is a territorist.
Yea
Honestly, I'm still confused
"-it radiating him and costing Shindo a fortune down the road."
Got a laugh out of me, great delivery
I'd like to think that Rebirth of Mothra takes place in Timeline #1 after Godzilla becomes forever dormant, letting Mothra become the only protector Earth has.
It'd also be pretty cool if Grand King Ghidorah is the same species of the one in the timeline the Futurians come from that is used for the alien DNA to make to artificial Dorat pets so we can have both a classic alien Ghidorah and the artificial one in the same universe (just different timelines)
Yeah, but the Elias are different from the Cosmos, whose existence wouldn't be altered by Godzilla staying dormant, and Desghidorah, Dagarah and Grand King Ghidorah would've still existed in the other 2 timelines, while in G V Gigan Rex the narrator (most likely Miki) implied that there hadn't been a kaiju attack in 25 years. Plus, Eternal Mothra would have likely aided Junior against the Gigans.
@@theultimatememelord5494 oh yeah I forgot all about the difference between the fairies so that's an L. Though I think I'd just explain away the first two baddies as just never have awakened. Though if Grand King did show up, itd be in 1998 where Junior would have to fight him instead of Mothra since Mothra went to space and maybe didn't even lay an egg in this timeline.
Inconsistencies aside, Post GvD Junior vs Grand Ghidorah actually sounds sick as hell.
@@sifimatt12345 Yeah, it does. But Belvera was going to awaken Desghidorah regardless of Godzilla being around or not.
EDIT: And again, the 25 years thing.
İ made a 4th timeline where jr's parents did'nt die and killed Godzilla and a 5th one where Godzilla meltdown just ends the world
@@yourtimetraveleralara That doesn't connect to what we're talking about in the slightest.
Thanks for the video. Really engaging and informative. It made Godzilla vs King Ghidorah a lot more interesting for me
I love these videos, I had a feeling the timeline went like this. It makes perfect sense, I was thinking the same thing when I studied the heisei timeline in my free time.
This was such a fun video and exploration! RIP Kazuki Omori!
The only remaining questions I have after this are: what the hell was King Ghidorah doing for the time between 1954 when they'd awakened to 1992? This is less of a plot hole and more a fun thing to speculate on.
The other question I have is that the events of Return of Godzilla and Godzilla vs. Biollante have to be different at least somewhat correct? Because if they were the exact same....Timeline 1 would just happen again due to the anti-nuclear bacteria shot into him at the end of Biollante. I think that Return and Biollante can have happened to be VERY similar but with things slightly altered, like Return and Biollante would have had a much BIGGER Godzilla for one. On top of this the modern nuclear weapons being used in his creation probably altered the effectiveness of the ANB. So maybe Return/Biollante did get shifted to happen in say 1989/1990 with MOSTLY the same plotline but with minor differences. Like say in Timeline 3 Bigger Godzilla still killed Gondo and fought Biollante but the ANB was less effective. You could make it all work with very minor tweaks but I think some differences would have to happen in order for the whole puzzle to fit together.
Regardless this is very fun to chat and theorize about!
The existence of Super X-3 also predicates the non erasure of '84 and GVB.
It really does make sense considering the first 2 failed to fell the big G, this one thing clinches it considering all that fancy tech used for Mecha G and Moguera didn't work out so 3rd time's the charm.
The one thing that strikes me as odd is that there were no records of King Ghidorah having attacked Japan or anywhere else prior to his then-present day attack in the revised timeline. I know that's not a guaranteed event, but still.
He must have been just super chill until the Futurians took control of him, similar to Titanosaurus
You'd think people would have noticed the 150 meter 3 headed dragon in 48 years.
We know very little about the futurian technology. For all we know, the dorats were unable to act of free will unless given direction.
Ah, time travel. How we *_LOVE_* your confusing rules.
Lmao right
Yeah me too i love cookie run 's TBD for that
My attempted explanation for Godzilla seemingly being ‘created’ in 1989 despite having being mutated before 1984 is technically, he is created in both circumstances.
This is because prior to GvK, Godzilla is simply referred to as 3rd Gen Godzilla, while as of 1991, he is referred to as "Powered-Up" 3rd Gen Godzilla, which is carried into future Heisei films. This mutation is what caused his increase in height and ridded him of the ANAB infection. In a sense, a new Godzilla was created.
I could be wrong though.
Incredible Art
Great Work
Beautiful Effort
This is the problem when messing around with time travel. I think Toho just wanted to do something different that they hadn’t tried with Godzilla before and didn’t care about continuity. That also might explain why the Millinium era of films did not follow an ongoing continuity, so that the writers and producers wouldn’t have to worry about it.
Kudos to the creator of this video for all the hard work and research and theories.
Godzilla Vs King Ghidorah will always be my favorite monster fight
Wikizilla very good video i love watch you videos
So, to summarise: timeline 1 occurs with both Godzilla Gen 1 and Gen 3 being created by the Castle Bravo test, 1954 attack on Tokyo and the death of the Godzilla Gen 1 occurs, and Gen 3 stays hidden until 1984, thus resulting in the events leading up to the start of Vs. King Ghidorah - has the timeline remained untampered, Godzilla would have remained out-of-action. The creation of timeline 2 changes the origins of Gen 3 only (the Futurians are unaware that 2 Godzillas were created by Castle Bravo) but not necessarily the events that occured in 1984 and Vs. Biollante according to the followups, but also undoes the effects of the Anti-Nuclear Energy Bacteria Godzilla was infected with.
I have to wonder though: would Japan in timeline 1 have been destroyed by Destoroyah since there was no Godzilla to stop it? Its creation was tied to the Gen 1 Godzilla, which still came ashore. Obviously the next three films would not happen as-is or at all (no Mechagodzilla, and quite possibly no Spacegodzilla either depending on which theory of its creation is accurate).
Timeline 1 probably had just Mothra fighting Battra with Mothra probably winning, no MechaGodzilla, Godzilla Junior is raised in isolation by Rodan on their island, No SpaceGodzilla due to less G-Cells in Space or SpaceGodzilla floated through space in the opposite direction of Earth, Destroyah probably still attacked but the military probably found their own way of killing him we don’t know about, and/or maybe something else like Mothra, and/or even Godzilla Junior, and Rodan getting involved somehow with them beating Destroyah with some combination of them dying then the survivors just not bothering Japan again thus allowing Japan to prosper.
Time Travel, It sound like a fun idea for stories but using it is anything but fun.
Yeah
Teaches:The time travel test is easy
The test:
Lol
8:53 "Same Matter can't occupy the same space" as JCVD from 1994s Timecop would state.
This bit of time-travel conundrum really baffles me as its not really time-travel but more about matter not being able to be in the same space.
Eg:- there's a lamp post, a person can lean on it, put their hand on it but they cannot be in the exact space as the lamp post without the impossible ability to merge ones atomic structure with the lamp post.
Or in teleportation on how dangerous it can potentially be for foreign objects to be in the same space (David Cronenbergs The Fly)
It could be possible for the Shindo's meet but the Futurians were very crafty as to sway the others from not doing this as it could've compromised their plans in some way.
Personal thoughts
I think the best way to summarize this plot. The futurians ending up creating the heisei Godzilla without realizing this, why the events of 1984 and Biollante still happened. Thus, they made him.
Now I understand. I think. But thanks for explaining.
Also RIP.
This just shows why I've never been able to take the official toho materials at face value as they rarely are taken from the director/screenwriter. Not to mention they feature so many inconsistencies that can even change crim the various printings.
Split into a third timeline or not, King Ghidorah still should have been there when Mecha King Ghidorah was there. The best explanation is the one they give for why Shindo can't go back in time. Basically when Mecha King Ghidorah goes back it causes the one wounded under water to be erased.
We expand on this in the pinned comment - it's also possible the Futurians were lying and neither has to disappear. Although I do like the idea that Emmy was making a 50-50 bet the cyborg she was piloting wouldn't disappear as soon as it manifested in Shinjuku and send her falling to her death.
Why wasn't Godzilla vs Mothra not included in your Timeline Revisited?
So if you change something that didn't happen in the original timeline if you return to your future it will never be the same and you can no longer access them even if you stop yourself it will no longer be the same so that means The Return of godzilla and godzilla vs bio will no longer be accessible and if they were it would change something that didn't happen or did happen.
"Maybe he just likes being at home" you know, thats a really nice thought.
"If you travel to the past, that past becomes your future, and your former present becomes the past, which can't now be changed by your new future."
So if this is correct (Which I'm sure it is) then Emi is the linchpin that holds the Heisei era together. So by going back she inadvertently helped create MechaGodzilla, M.O.G.U.E.R.A. Reawaken Mothra and Battra and set up circumstances in which SpaceGodzilla and Destroyah would be born.
How does one apply or reach out in order to narrate an episode.
Nice 👍🏻
Somewhere a timeline exists where the Criterion Collection have released a Heisei and Millennium box set
That timeline will be this one, if recent events are to be interpreted correctly.
@@GamerMinilla is there news?
I have two theories as to why mecha-king Ghidorah was able to appear in the third timeline when Ghidorah’s non-cybernetic corpse was also around. The first is that when Mecha-King Ghidorah came to fight Godzilla, the monster was coming to the past with 40% of his organic self, as the organic middle head and parts of the wings were destroyed by Godzilla (alongside the possibility that sea-life was perhaps eating at Ghidorah’s corpse). When he came, it’s possible that Mecha-King Ghidorah under the rules of the Futerians time travel measures was indeed a different monster from the more organic Ghidorah. A second theory is that if a person from the future meets his/her past self, and causes one of them to disappear, this could be because either the past or future self of the person was killed or altered. It’s possible that for safety perceptions the Futerians never want a person of the future meeting their past self in order to avoid deaths and disappearances, alongside any other complications or alterations between past or future versions of people. In the film, Mecha-King Ghidorah and organic King Ghidorah never meet canonically, so theirs little worry for either version vanishing.
Damn it, I hate split timelines. The stable timeloop is much more easier to manage and makes more sense.
Makes more sense in general? I think we explained pretty thoroughly why it doesn't work for this movie.
@@michaelcallari No, I meant as a writing trope, not specifically applied to this movie.
Could you make one about Titanus Doug from Godzilla versus Kong
Hi wikizilla can you do a final wars Godzilla kaiju profile?
I love godzilla vs king ghidorah, but one of its biggest flaws is the time travel storyline is really convoluted unless you do legit research, so props for you guys to tackle this for confused fans to swallow a little easier.
They really needed a scene where Emmy maps out the branching timelines on a napkin
@@michaelcallari yeah lol 😂
@@michaelcallari Lmao
Yeah, I tend to pretty much always hate the idea of time travel in just about any movie. Particularly because the idea of alternate timelines and multiverses, to me, is just stupid as hell and even more illogical than the notion of time travel itself.
At least the "Fixed Time Loop" theory leaves it all as one timeline, one sequence of events that always happens and never changes. No matter what is possible, things only happen one way.
They always time traveled, they always created Heisei Godzilla, and they always caused history by trying to change it.
I wish the film had leaned more into that line of thinking. Such as characters wondering why they all still remember Godzilla if they hypothetically now exist in a timeline without Godzilla. The world of Japan in the new "altered timeline" being exactly as it was before they time traveled.
*AND WE BACK~*
Awesome research and explanation! I'd guess that Ghidorah while in the ocean would vanish as MKG made his appearance in the main timeline. These 3 different timelines while being confusing definitely make the heisei era very interesting. I wonder if Toho will ever introduce a time travel plot in a Goji film again?
It's very possible the Ghidorah in Okhotsk vanished when MKG appeared. I guess Emmy felt like gambling which one would vanish.
@@Wikizilla Right, I'd like to think they ran the chances in their super computer and the percentage was a safe bet
Great video! You lost me for a bit, but I think I understand a lot of it.👍
My theory is that Mecha King Ghidorah does disappear but it’s right after he and Godzilla battles because in “Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla 2” all that the JSDF brings back is the third head of Mecha King Ghidorah
My brain hurts sooo much
one more thing to note that the original godzilla show up in 1954 in all timelines. Proof that it happen during the branch off is that the editor ask the male character about something involving his book which he replied that godzilla was no longer around to himself. That proof that the original wasn't the same one, of course since the original died from the oxygen destroyer than the test produce two godzilla not one and they got the wrong one.
My original theory was that the godzillasaurus was actually 1954 godzilla and heisei was actually another godzilla
Are.yoy gonna make separate kaiju profile for Behemoth, Methusulah, Scylla, Amhuluk, and Tiamat? Since we have more information about some of them thanks to comics
Long story short: by traveling back in time to the 40’s and teleporting the Godzillasaurus to the bearing Sea, it was exposed to a nuclear accident in the area in the late 70’s which turned it into the Godzilla that appeared in 1984.
I always doesnt know heisei has time travel until human found a ghidorah dead bodies to create a new mecha ghidorah that almost killed godzilla
If there was one godzillasaurus on the island, then there were probably more. At least there had to be enough godzillasaurs to maintain a breeding population. Personally, I like to interpret this film so that timeline 1 represents the Showa era, with the godzillasaurus we see being the second Godzilla from "Godzilla Raids Again", and timelines 2 & 3 represent the Hesei era. I suppose the Millennium era could represent additional timelines.
So the G, from G,Raids again, is the G, that was found on Lagos Island,
It would be interesting if Toho Studios. Dose another G timeline movie
I love it when Toho idolizes smart people
Lmao
Yeah me too
R.I.P Kazuki Omori 1952-2022, it's been 70 year's
I finally get it!!!
Honestly, it seems just as likely that the only reason time travel was included in this movie is that the Terminator films were so popular (well, hey there, M-11), and they then just didn’t think out the technical aspects of it properly. I know that doesn’t offer any *in-universe* explanations, and we have to take it into account when considering the events of future movies, but I suspect that’s the real world reason for it.
Also… Sigh-gusa? Do I sense a bit of displeasure directed toward the character of Miki? 😎
I always think time traveling as just creating a whole new universe. And with each time travel, it's impossible to get back to the original.
Yep
r.i.p kozuki omori.
i honestly view the timeline as splitting from the godzillasaurus fate with ghidorah taking his spot with him being put into the sea(which was where i got confused as i thought he got erased at 1st.) with later on him getting it from the sub with an unseen different godzillasaurus becoming 1954 as the events of it still happen and characters remember him/godzilla still feeling betrayed by humanity(really puts in perspective junior causing him to calm down afterwards.) with the other timeline being where mecha kg came from(did even before that theory wonder why the just killed one wasn't used instead of his long dead corpse.) or heisei godzilla disappearing for a bit only to be brought back by the change.
also find it cool in hindsight it tricks the audience by thinking japan became a superpower by heisei big g/trick by the futerions only to in destroyah imply it's actually a now grown junior protecting the country(with how he has a better relationship with humans.) from threats/jealous nations that for all we know could've helped out the futerions actions.
Can't believe you guys still haven't made a video of King Caesar.
Ive tried to find any issues in this explanation, cant seem to see any. 👍
This makes me wanna rewatch back to the future trilogy for the [insert absurd number here] time
I’m kinda glad that 1984’s Return wasn’t…*apparently* stricken from the timeline, although you’d think taking a lava bath would only piss Godzilla off, instead of giving him a heel-face turn. I always wondered what the future movies had been like if the ‘84 incarnation had remained, instead of being superseded by the “anti/hero of the world” style Goji that came after
I hate to think that post-GVKG Goji isn't the same one from '84, or at least doesn't have his memories. Part of the reason he's my favourite incarnation is the amount of character development he gets.
Also 1984 Godzilla isn't as destructive as other movies (til GvMG)
oh dang
almost forgot this channel existed
Man, this is some Dragon Ball Z/Super level of time traveling, dude. But thankfully not as elaborate. Also I'm so glad this video returned but more updated.
Dragon Ball Z is an appropriate comparison, with Future Trunks' future being separate from the main one we eventually see.
My point of comparison was Red Alert 3, which has a very similar plot, minus the kaiju
Damn, timeline theories!
Why didn't being teleported to bottom of the sea crush or at very least drown Godzillasaurus. Was he already adapted to deep sea & also full amphibious?
Can you make a kaiju profile on the showa era godzilla please?
Disclaimer that I've only ever been able to watch an English dub, but the official explanation leaves me with one question based on dialogue from the movie. At some point between Godzilla rising again and destroying the UFO/Time Machine, one of the Futurians (Wilson, I think) throws out the somewhat nonsensical line "This Godzilla isn't friendly."
It could just be dub weirdness, but there was never any iteration of a friendly Heisei Godzilla, so what is he referring to?
As I joke (mostly) I once told someone it's because he somehow came from the Showa timeline.
While I was joking, one of the many theories of how time travel "really" works is that it just plain doesn't, and any "successful" time travel is just a jump to a parallel universe out of sync with the time traveler's native universe.
This would explain Wilson's line because came from the Showa timeline... but it also means he's an idiot because he came to pitch his idea to a version of Japan that he thinks has experienced the entire Showa canon apart from Destroy All Monsters.
We didn't look at how that line goes in Japanese, but maybe he was trying to contrast the Godzillasaurus saving the Japanese garrison with Godzilla's impending obliteration of Japan.
(Reposted from Discord)
...yeah, uh... I still think I like the old video better. Less headache-inducing and honestly much more satisfying when you keep its context in mind when watching all the Heisei films in sequential order. XD
In all seriousness, tho, the one question I have to ask is;
By the logic of this movie, it expects us to say that across ALL THREE TIMELINES, with every check and deviation taken into account, Omori means to tell us that the SAME Godzilla, mutated by varying means of radiation exposure giving him the SAME appearance(s), JUST SO HAPPENED to attack Japan in both 1984 and 1989?
I know it's the logic of a kaiju film, but come on. The Godzillasaurus in the second timeline was wounded gravely before the Futurians teleported away to the Bering Sea. It could have aged. It could have healed substantially differently. You mean to say that regardless if it was exposed to the fallout of *Castle Bravo* or affected by the radiation of the Soviet submarine, it ended up looking IDENTICAL to its 1984 and 1989 incarnations, and was awakened near Daikoku Island exactly THREE MONTHS after its eruption as shown in _The Return of Godzilla_ ?
This isn't a minor deviation that wouldn't have any recurring consequences on the character. This is a MAJOR shift in continuity, to have the SAME Godzilla be born by two COMPLETELY different means, and JUST SO HAPPENS to be present at the SAME PLACE at the SAME TIME in all 3 continuities (the '89 sub crash notwithstanding).
This is why doing a movie where time travel logic is a focal part of the plot and not just a background element used to tell an interesting story, like with _The Terminator_ or _Back to the Future_ , is an inane idea.
I would like to see Godzillasaurus again.
The problem is that the Heisei series originally hinted that the Heisei Godzilla was the same as the original 1954 one. The 1984 movie implies they're the same entity, and there's nothing established in the later movies that they're in fact differen radiated members of the same species.
It's only in Godzilla vs Destoroyah that it's definitively established the original one died from the Oxygen Destroyer and the Heisei one is a separate entity. GvD hence retcons the previous entries.
There's no indication in Godzilla vs King Ghidorah that there were two different Godzillas who were formed in 1954. Throughout the whole movie, you're led to believe the original 1954 one saved Shindo, attacked Japan ten years later, somehow reemerged in 1984, fought Biollante, and got infected by ANEB. You're then led to believe that Godzilla formed from contacting a Russian sub and then did the same things before fighting King Ghidorah, and then Mecha King Ghidorah.
My own view is that GvKG operates on the branching timelines theory. But GvD establishes there were two Godzillas and the original one died in 1954, so the branching timelines theory no longer works because GvKG got retconed.
I think I prefer the time loop theory. Just makes more sense to me
Finally this Remaster released!
Could you do singular point characters plz 😀
So let me get this straight is the 1984 Godzilla the shows Godzilla after terror of mechgodzilla or is it the Godzilla from 1954?? This video is so confusing but good 👍
Can you do a Godzilla Ultima one Kaiju profile for people who doesn't understand Singular Point
The Millennium Era timelines were more confusing to me before I found out since the Showa and Heisei were more connected on each Era
I think Millennium is anthology with every movies (except Final Wars and Tokyo SOS) are direct sequel to 1954 movie
Final Wars completely is it's own thing with its own timeline
@@toyohimeyeswatatsuki6917
In the final wars timeline, Godzilla doesn't get killed by the oxygen destroyer, I'm fairly certain that's the only retcon.
Trying to make sense of time travel plots has never ended well since... well since time travel was first used in stories lol
Weren't there 2 godzillas? Because u have the 1954 one and then 1989 one, which Godzilla got mutated by the H Bomb? And which by the Sub
That’s the point of the branched timeline. In the original timeline, both creatures were mutated by the H-bomb. The second one being larger (80 meters) than the first (50 meters) simply to being 30 years older and having more time to grow. In the second branch, only the first by the bomb and the second by the sub after being teleported. The confusing part is when since the newspaper kind of throws a monkey wrench into the works. I still believe it happened in the 70’s and the more modern nuclear material is what caused the 1984 Godzilla to be larger than the original. The Futurians’ teleporting of the creature did nothing but change when and where that Godzilla was mutated and the loop timeline’s explanation of why everyone in 1992 still remembered him and why Biollante still exists in GvSG having a presence here.
Do Godzilla vs kiryu saga timeline next
Since there's Hella kaijus in tht timeline
Oh yeah? Maybe that comic called Godzilla rulers of earth I think it's called? Related to the film? Because it uses the same design and has a ton of kaijus
There's no heisei Kaiju tho
What about doing the millennium godzilla kaiju profile?
The only part I would question is Godzilla never recovering from the aneb. There is a line in the movie about Godzilla defending Japan. So maybe he recovered but played nice? Also.. if the time loop theory is "busted" now Biollante although remembered could NOT be the source for SpaceGodzilla. If Biollante was the source then SpaceGodzilla would of appeared in timelines 1, and 2, and 3. Timeliness 1 Godzilla did not have the power up from the sub encounter in 92, or help from G-force, so SpaceGodzilla would have beaten him and destroyed the world. So with that, it is safe to say that it was Mothra that got the g cells in space. The characters from vs. Spacegodzilla would not be aware of the branching timelines, so would not know that theory 1 for space godzilla couldn't happen.
I though Emi said that in the future Godzilla protected Japan when they returned from the past the first time ( referring to the first timeline) So wouldn't that have meant that Godzilla somehow recovered from the ANEB at some point?
My brain broke while watching this
Wait would that mean that they’re 2 Godzillasaurus? One that became Heisei and the other ‘54 Godzilla
That is never commented on specifically for the Heisei universe. He might be mutated from a Godzillasaurus, or he might still have been the same giant prehistoric marine reptile that he was in the original movie.
Time travel is pretty confusing nice video
My least favorite part of this movie is that, if you think about it, the futurians are the good guys trying to make sure all nations are on a level playing field and one isn't just way more powerful than the others
All this time, the rest of the Heisei Godzilla movies was in a third timeline?!
Man, I’ve seen a lot of time travelers in my day; Trunks from Dragon Ball, Silver from Sonic the Hedgehog, even Lucina from Fire Emblem. And whatever changes they made, may or may not have gotten the idea from this?
Was it how the rewriting of the Mortal Kombat series came to be when MK9 was released? Did someone from NetherRealm Studios watch Godzilla VS. King Ghidorah at one point and tell the guys working in the studio, “Let’s rewrite Mortal Kombat using this new timeline shtick from this Godzilla movie I watched a literal hour ago” then years later, most didn’t like the story because of all the changes and retcons they made to the original timeline, lookin’ at you Quan Chi. then MK11 showed up and created a bunch of shenanigans related to time, consequently resetting the timeline in the process to create a new one for MK1?
Okay, that was a very long comment that had absolutely nothing to do with Godzilla, but I better not hear NRS confirm that they got that very idea from this movie.
At least Intelligent Systems didn’t put this new timeline idea into Fire Emblem Awakening, right?
😊😶
IS didn’t put this new timeline idea in FE Awakening, right?
I personally had theorized that when MKG is brought back in time, his self in the ocean vanishes. Afterwards, Japan salvages the machinery off of his body and leaves his comatose body where it lay, leaving a badly wounded, two headed monster that is barely alive, yet can be repaired with futurian technology, which would be sent back to drag godzilla to sea.
Yes this basically would mean King Ghidorah would be suffering an eternity of being in a coma for 200 years, repaired with technology, sent back to fight against Godzilla, nearly die, get the machinery stripped off him, then lay in another coma for another 200 years forever. Also, considering his synthetic nature, it's possible he doesn't age and any genetic damage done would be repaired in the future as well.
sorry
@@Wikizilla No worries, I'm just glad to have this video up to date and the time travel plot concluded.
Considering this Ghidorah is innocent 3 dorats (initially under mind controlled with attempt to strangle Godzilla) not Sadistic Planet destroyer definitely make him even more tragic
Make a Video How Strong and How Big will Kong Be in GVK 2
Epic