Wow, that is really interesting! Just looked on Wikipedia under embrittlement, and it says the following: "Polycarbonate provides a good example of solvent stress cracking. Numerous solvents have been shown to embrittle polycarbonate (i.e. benzene, toluene, acetone) through a similar mechanism. The solvent diffuses into the bulk, swells the polymer, induces crystallization, and ultimately produces interfaces between ordered and disordered regions. These interfaces produce voids and stress fields that can be propagated throughout the material at stresses much lower than the typical tensile strength of the polymer."
One thing I wonder about, is how urban use would affect the material, given that the urban atmosphere has an alarmingly high concentration of hydrocarbon vapours\
@@ranga2050 that's something to consider but likely a non-issue as ambient concentrations will be significantly lower than the off-gassing as loctite dries. I definitely would not put a freshly loctited fastener on my pillow overnight!
I chose to subscribe here thinking you're the type to venture into ideas and experiments where insight could be gleaned, and here it is. I seriously love these kinds of discoveries. The way it's presented here is going to stick in your mind probably well enough to remind people to research interactions between materials during plans and builds. I remember learning about anode rods in water heaters, and now I have this whole other axis of anticipation opened up. This is very much like the process of acquiring that bit of knowledge; it's all fun stuff to know.
Kinda proud my chemistry teacher taught us about this issue in high school chemistry class, in particular with acrylic/pmma which is strongly prone to this class of issues.
From Omnexus: "(polycarbonate) is readily attacked by diluted alkalis, aromatic, and halogenated hydrocarbons." From Loctite: primary ingredient is methacrylate ester. Methacrylate and its derivatives are aromatic hydrocarbons. Many of them have an "acrid" odor. All of that would seem to indicate that you're seeing just what you report: a predictable reaction that is at the same time unexpected by the general community, including the solar panel manufacturer.
I was sad to see the riv-nuts, but they are ok for sheet metal and lite loads to hold electronic boards. Floating nut-plates with locking nuts can be pre-installed for limited access areas. No out-gassing, yay! The Belville washer with rubber matched with the foam is a good idea! It is a real challenge to compress the Belvilles only halfway for them to work as a spring. I usually give up and use a normal compression spring. The foam is actually enough. Compress the foam halfway and use a normal bolt and washer into the locking nut-plate. Great video!!
I really appreciate the technical info and the depth you go into.. i like to know how everything works and reacts.. the more you know.. also i really like your light weight building concept. you are all over it! thanks my bro:)
You are awesome.... great content, great thinking, really decent human being. I love going down the various rabbit holes that you encounter. So interesting!!! Thank you!!
I wasn't aware there's a problem with people stealing Solar Panels off 100k Sprinter vans. Or is this just paranoia? Is there a black market for solar panels?🤔😂 Just giving you hard time! I do enjoy your videos.
Some really good information, I have stumbled on to your channel and I’m happy I did, for the mounting of the panels I used 80 20 and fabricated brackets with no drilling into the panels , it’s really solid and theft proofed
Great video. When doing something new, these kind of issues happen. Like you, I'd not heard of this issue with Loctite, but out-gassing of some type of curing vapor seems most likely. Two items stuck out to me in the limitations section of the loctite 242 tech sheet. Did not find a 243 SDS/datasheet. Second item talks of "strong oxidizing materials" this might hint at a possible issue with thermoplastic. Also the limitation on 'active metal' Not sure of the metals used around this, but inactive vs active metals distinction was another interesting point. I've only used loctite on iron based metals so did not pay attention to this before. The loctite activator 'when to use' case study was a helpful read on active vs inactive metals. Oddly, was also unable to read the SDS for 242, webpage error on my browser. SDS can sometimes give hints of toxic stuff beyond the dangers to people. Was activator used in this? Your observation that 'green' loctite seems different from blue is interesting. Curing might be different process. Thank you for taking the time to make this video!
Alcohol and ammonia are also no-go on acrylics and poly carb! Ammonia in cleaners is the main reason acrylics and poly carbs become yellow over time. Apart from that, I suggest you use rubber grommets like the ones used in cars for protecting wires going through bulkheads with a washer on each side so the panels are rubber mounted and have a little give when the car body twists.
Oooh! I actually knew this one... I don't know how I know but I know! I think I saw it in a youtube video - where it was just an anecdote while they were assembling something
I like that you showed the tortured outcome of your decision making... many of us have been there. I constantly find myself thinking "I'm a reasonably smart guy, but I think I might be too much of an idiot for this hobby" (woodworking). Like you, I'm also an expert problem-creator-solver 😂
I wouldn't be so quick to super/ CA glue the fastener stack given what you've learned... perhaps it's good that method didn't work out. in any case this is good info to be aware of for future projects thanks for sharing
Still love your stuff, I like the curvature of the panels for built in airflow. Taj-Ma-Haul's current configuration is determined by the panels themselves arranged perpendicular to front to back. I use 540w Panels and 5 fit front to back with a 7 inch hangover that I've used to create a short awning over the back Toy Hauler drop door. I still would like to talk about some custom cabinets for her, Taj-Ma-Haul...
I work with locktite all the time at work. My job had a locktite rep give us training on its use. When using on aluminum and even stainless steel you need to use their primer to get it to cure properly. This may have been what caused your problem. It would atleast worth testing.
Try VibraTite as a thread locker that is safe to use with plastics. I use this for mounting ski bindings into threaded inserts as the bindings can be damaged in a similar way by loctite.
On the topic of installing nylon lock nuts. I think that happens to all of us, sooner a later. I could just hope that next time it happens to me, I could see it before spending a day. I've definitely been here and a hundred percent guilty of trying to glue washers to a nut. It usually seems so easy, like 'I just need to place this nut', and suddenly then there is also at least 3 nuts to go. Then you take a look at the time and 'oh, have I been doing for 3 hours?' Next thought is 'ok, I've spend 3 hours, I'm super close to finally doing it'. And on the next day you think that you could probably re-do the entire thing in half the time. And of course it's not limited to installing nuts...
This was a great video! Reminds me of some of the rabbit holes Matthias Wandel goes down. I still feel like light leaf needs to come up with a solution to surface mount these panels. Maybe a T-track extrusion with the angle preset?
Interesting - the guy over at Project Farm would have a good time with this reaction. It's got me thinking about some acrylic panel installs I've done...
I was watching the video and was just curious if you’ve ever used Dicor self level for your roof penetrations? I work for one of the Prevost bus converters and we use that for all of our roof penetrations. I usual do a layer of Sika to bond and then go around the edges with Dicor for an extra level to seal from water intrusion. It skins over and stays pliable.
so i asked bing chat in microsoft copilot and got these alternatives. do you mind doing an experiment using these products? btw, lightleaf makes custom solar canopies and can customize the curvature of the solar canopies so you can essentially have one piece of solar covering the entire roof! 1) 3M Scotch-Weld Plastic & Rubber Instant Adhesive PR40, 2)Super Glue Plastic Fusion Epoxy Adhesive, 3)Gorilla Super Glue Gel1, 4) J-B Weld 8237 PlasticWeld Plastic Repair 5)Plastruct Plastic Weld, 6)Bondic Pro UV Resin Kit Liquid Plastic Welding Kit, 7) Rhino Tough-Instant Ultra Glue Gel, 8)E6000 2 oz. Clear Adhesive
Just replying about the custom panel portion of your comment. I don't know if it did at the time but the FAQ section of their website talks about the cost of their custom panels. It states that a custom single panel of a given size, can't remember what size, working out to about 540 watts would cost $7000! He has 800 watts up there so I am willing to bet that he won't be going for a custom single at this time. At the time of this comment, their standard 200 watt panel is
the anerobic curing doresnt really mean anything for locktite. as i understand its a galvonic reduction process. i am not sure what causes the cracking, probably expansion in the joint in a radial fashion. just stick them down with polyurathane/3m window weld. they coat the top of air craft carriers with it lol
I saw a photo of someone’s snowboard binding baseplates that completely failed due to contact with Loctite. I just checked the packaging of some brand new Loctite 243 and it contains no warning about these scenarios.
Wow interesting! I see you like doing scientific experiments. Could you also test lizard skin ceramic insulation? The van build world is hugely divided on it. Some swear by it while others say it’s a waste of money. Could you settle the debate once and for all?
Wow, that is really interesting! Just looked on Wikipedia under embrittlement, and it says the following: "Polycarbonate provides a good example of solvent stress cracking. Numerous solvents have been shown to embrittle polycarbonate (i.e. benzene, toluene, acetone) through a similar mechanism. The solvent diffuses into the bulk, swells the polymer, induces crystallization, and ultimately produces interfaces between ordered and disordered regions. These interfaces produce voids and stress fields that can be propagated throughout the material at stresses much lower than the typical tensile strength of the polymer."
One thing I wonder about, is how urban use would affect the material, given that the urban atmosphere has an alarmingly high concentration of hydrocarbon vapours\
Yeah good point@@ranga2050
@@ranga2050 that's something to consider but likely a non-issue as ambient concentrations will be significantly lower than the off-gassing as loctite dries. I definitely would not put a freshly loctited fastener on my pillow overnight!
I chose to subscribe here thinking you're the type to venture into ideas and experiments where insight could be gleaned, and here it is. I seriously love these kinds of discoveries. The way it's presented here is going to stick in your mind probably well enough to remind people to research interactions between materials during plans and builds. I remember learning about anode rods in water heaters, and now I have this whole other axis of anticipation opened up. This is very much like the process of acquiring that bit of knowledge; it's all fun stuff to know.
Ran into this issue with quadcopters... laser cut PC frames cracking after assembly. Switched to using CA to lock threads instead.
Kinda proud my chemistry teacher taught us about this issue in high school chemistry class, in particular with acrylic/pmma which is strongly prone to this class of issues.
From Omnexus: "(polycarbonate) is readily attacked by diluted alkalis, aromatic, and halogenated hydrocarbons." From Loctite: primary ingredient is methacrylate ester. Methacrylate and its derivatives are aromatic hydrocarbons. Many of them have an "acrid" odor. All of that would seem to indicate that you're seeing just what you report: a predictable reaction that is at the same time unexpected by the general community, including the solar panel manufacturer.
I was sad to see the riv-nuts, but they are ok for sheet metal and lite loads to hold electronic boards.
Floating nut-plates with locking nuts can be pre-installed for limited access areas.
No out-gassing, yay!
The Belville washer with rubber matched with the foam is a good idea! It is a real challenge to compress the Belvilles only halfway for them to work as a spring. I usually give up and use a normal compression spring.
The foam is actually enough. Compress the foam halfway and use a normal bolt and washer into the locking nut-plate.
Great video!!
I really appreciate the technical info and the depth you go into..
i like to know how everything works and reacts..
the more you know..
also i really like your light weight building concept.
you are all over it!
thanks my bro:)
You are awesome.... great content, great thinking, really decent human being. I love going down the various rabbit holes that you encounter. So interesting!!! Thank you!!
I appreciate that! Thank you!
Thanks for taking the time to do your own experiements. Really apriciate you sharing your thought processes, as I love the way you take on each job.
I wasn't aware there's a problem with people stealing Solar Panels off 100k Sprinter vans. Or is this just paranoia? Is there a black market for solar panels?🤔😂 Just giving you hard time! I do enjoy your videos.
Some really good information, I have stumbled on to your channel and I’m happy I did, for the mounting of the panels I used 80 20 and fabricated brackets with no drilling into the panels , it’s really solid and theft proofed
Polycarbonate will crack in the presence of IPA. Maybe there is a similar solvent in thread locker?
Didn’t know about this one. Good to know!
Great video. When doing something new, these kind of issues happen. Like you, I'd not heard of this issue with Loctite, but out-gassing of some type of curing vapor seems most likely.
Two items stuck out to me in the limitations section of the loctite 242 tech sheet. Did not find a 243 SDS/datasheet. Second item talks of "strong oxidizing materials" this might hint at a possible issue with thermoplastic. Also the limitation on 'active metal' Not sure of the metals used around this, but inactive vs active metals distinction was another interesting point. I've only used loctite on iron based metals so did not pay attention to this before. The loctite activator 'when to use' case study was a helpful read on active vs inactive metals. Oddly, was also unable to read the SDS for 242, webpage error on my browser. SDS can sometimes give hints of toxic stuff beyond the dangers to people. Was activator used in this?
Your observation that 'green' loctite seems different from blue is interesting. Curing might be different process.
Thank you for taking the time to make this video!
Alcohol and ammonia are also no-go on acrylics and poly carb! Ammonia in cleaners is the main reason acrylics and poly carbs become yellow over time.
Apart from that, I suggest you use rubber grommets like the ones used in cars for protecting wires going through bulkheads with a washer on each side so the panels are rubber mounted and have a little give when the car body twists.
Oooh! I actually knew this one... I don't know how I know but I know! I think I saw it in a youtube video - where it was just an anecdote while they were assembling something
I like that you showed the tortured outcome of your decision making... many of us have been there. I constantly find myself thinking "I'm a reasonably smart guy, but I think I might be too much of an idiot for this hobby" (woodworking). Like you, I'm also an expert problem-creator-solver 😂
I wouldn't be so quick to super/ CA glue the fastener stack given what you've learned... perhaps it's good that method didn't work out. in any case this is good info to be aware of for future projects thanks for sharing
Still love your stuff, I like the curvature of the panels for built in airflow. Taj-Ma-Haul's current configuration is determined by the panels themselves arranged perpendicular to front to back. I use 540w Panels and 5 fit front to back with a 7 inch hangover that I've used to create a short awning over the back Toy Hauler drop door.
I still would like to talk about some custom cabinets for her, Taj-Ma-Haul...
I work with locktite all the time at work. My job had a locktite rep give us training on its use. When using on aluminum and even stainless steel you need to use their primer to get it to cure properly. This may have been what caused your problem. It would atleast worth testing.
Try VibraTite as a thread locker that is safe to use with plastics. I use this for mounting ski bindings into threaded inserts as the bindings can be damaged in a similar way by loctite.
On the topic of installing nylon lock nuts. I think that happens to all of us, sooner a later. I could just hope that next time it happens to me, I could see it before spending a day. I've definitely been here and a hundred percent guilty of trying to glue washers to a nut. It usually seems so easy, like 'I just need to place this nut', and suddenly then there is also at least 3 nuts to go. Then you take a look at the time and 'oh, have I been doing for 3 hours?' Next thought is 'ok, I've spend 3 hours, I'm super close to finally doing it'. And on the next day you think that you could probably re-do the entire thing in half the time. And of course it's not limited to installing nuts...
This was a great video! Reminds me of some of the rabbit holes Matthias Wandel goes down.
I still feel like light leaf needs to come up with a solution to surface mount these panels. Maybe a T-track extrusion with the angle preset?
Well I never knew that! Thank you for sharing.
Love your honesty!
I really love your videos. Keep up the good work!
Interesting - the guy over at Project Farm would have a good time with this reaction. It's got me thinking about some acrylic panel installs I've done...
I was watching the video and was just curious if you’ve ever used Dicor self level for your roof penetrations? I work for one of the Prevost bus converters and we use that for all of our roof penetrations. I usual do a layer of Sika to bond and then go around the edges with Dicor for an extra level to seal from water intrusion. It skins over and stays pliable.
Back in the day of Polycarbonate Motorcycle helmets, before the iPhone, before the internet, there were warnings everywhere to not paint them.
Thanks for sharing!…
Wow! Thank you for this information!
so i asked bing chat in microsoft copilot and got these alternatives. do you mind doing an experiment using these products? btw, lightleaf makes custom solar canopies and can customize the curvature of the solar canopies so you can essentially have one piece of solar covering the entire roof! 1) 3M Scotch-Weld Plastic & Rubber Instant Adhesive PR40, 2)Super Glue Plastic Fusion Epoxy Adhesive, 3)Gorilla Super Glue Gel1, 4) J-B Weld 8237 PlasticWeld Plastic Repair 5)Plastruct Plastic Weld, 6)Bondic Pro UV Resin Kit Liquid Plastic Welding Kit, 7) Rhino Tough-Instant Ultra Glue Gel, 8)E6000 2 oz. Clear Adhesive
Just replying about the custom panel portion of your comment. I don't know if it did at the time but the FAQ section of their website talks about the cost of their custom panels. It states that a custom single panel of a given size, can't remember what size, working out to about 540 watts would cost $7000! He has 800 watts up there so I am willing to bet that he won't be going for a custom single at this time. At the time of this comment, their standard 200 watt panel is
the problem was the glued on brackets, to short. Nylocks are the correct move
I wounder how the poly would react to RTV silicon?
Certain loctite (567) pipe dopes also not for use on plastics
the anerobic curing doresnt really mean anything for locktite. as i understand its a galvonic reduction process. i am not sure what causes the cracking, probably expansion in the joint in a radial fashion. just stick them down with polyurathane/3m window weld. they coat the top of air craft carriers with it lol
I saw a photo of someone’s snowboard binding baseplates that completely failed due to contact with Loctite. I just checked the packaging of some brand new Loctite 243 and it contains no warning about these scenarios.
Would you test Vibratite VC3? I think that is not as bad for plastic at least thats what my 3d printer peeps say to use with abs/asa.
Wow interesting! I see you like doing scientific experiments. Could you also test lizard skin ceramic insulation? The van build world is hugely divided on it. Some swear by it while others say it’s a waste of money. Could you settle the debate once and for all?
I dont get why people use Loctite for anything less the manufacture told you too
It would probably help people searching in the future if you used a meaningful video title instead of the click bait title you did use.
trials and tribulations!
gotta be nice to be rich or in serious debt
Would it be possible to have a video where we send in questions about you for your wife to answer?