Fun fact: John Zachary DeLorean was born on January 6, 1925 in Detroit, Michigan, the oldest of the four sons of Zachary DeLorean, a Romanian immigrant who worked as a millwright at Ford Motor Co., and his wife Kathryn Pribak, a Hungarian immigrant who worked at General Electric. East European roots were strong there!
A little more about that FFG and CIE link. CIE and Leyland had been close since the formation of CIE, with the complete vehicles being assembled at CIEs Spa Road works, initially the bodies came from Leyland, like the chassis as CKD kits but later Leyland licensed their body designs to CIE who used them until the last RA class Leyland Titan in 1961. The big problem with Leyland in the 1970s was poor spares supply, the ideology of privatisation started early in Ireland, in 1973 Spa Road was sold off to a joint venture between Van Hool and Irish commercial vehicle coachbuilders McArdle Ltd. The Van Hool McArdle double deck body went on all of CIEs AN68 Atlantean fleet and 65 bodies went to South Yorkshire passenger transport executive and A1 Service operators association in Scotland, these comprised 64 on Scottish built Volvo Ailsa underframe and one AN68. CIEs railway engineers had got control of the bus side by then and started fitting Detroit diesel 6L-71s in 12m Leyland Leopards cascading their running units to older 11m Leopards. The Van Hool bus for CIE was at an advanced stage in 1977 when the Irish Government stopped funding CIEs new bus programme. By 1980 the situation was desperate and with a change of party controlling Dail Eireann the new plan was arrived at, get FFG to design four types of bus with the design owned by CIE and get international contractors to build a new bus factory in the West of Ireland. The initial name of the consortium was Bombardier (Ireland) Ltd 55% owned by Bombardier and 45% by GAC, but in 1984 GAC bought out the Bombardier shareholding. There were attempts to export various models but they came to nothing and GAC (Ireland) closed in 1988, CIE then went back to Leyland, becoming a big operator of Olympian double decks.
Hello! Wow, thanks for all of that info! I know Bombardier was supposed be part of building these buses, but then pulled out of the project. Thanks for watching!
Hi Stephen, thanks for your comments. I always wondered why the Leyland and CIE relationship deteriorated especially since Leyland provided so many buses to Ireland. This was not fully made known. Was the spares supply issues associated with the union unrest in manufacturing like what was happening in company’s such British Leyland (BL) and who as far as I know owned Leyland buses?
Little extra bit of information on those buses in Ireland. The first KC version delivered in 1981 used an American Detroit Diesel 6V71 engine. That engine was then subsequently used in all the double deck - KD Class - version of this bus. It was the familiar sound of the U.S. roaring around Irish cities throughout the 80's and 90's.
I remember riding on Busses of the VOV 1 and 2 group as a child in Germany, mid 90s to the late 00s when the company SOLARIS started to become a major name in the bus sector of German public transit
Seeing the thumb, I saw our typical Mercedes O405. I can still hear the Mercedes O405 N2 sound in my mind, that powertrain had a special noise, I loved it
"ZF 4 und 5 HP 500/590 im O 405 - 25 Anfahrten im Vergleich" would be a nice video. "Mercedes Benz O 405 N SOUND" also. But there are so many videos uploaded, at least here in Germany. The "ghost" sound, you can hear outside, is also typical, you know it must be that bus, even if you do not see it. 🙂 Greetings from Aschaffenburg near Frankfurt/Main
Me, too. The SL II and its predecessor, the VÖV Bus, are so iconic - they were so typical in just about every German town from the 70s to the 90s and early 00s, and they were so reliable that I bet that some are still in use in some developing countries around the world. To me, they are the most iconic German buses ever, just like the Routemaster in London or the Renault TN in Paris.
“In 1976 flamboyant John Z. DeLorean introduced a futuristic sports car, the DMC-12. It was built in Ireland. By 1983, after almost 1,000 were sold, the car-building venture closed. There was also a DeLorean bus introduced in 1980 called the DMC-80. It was a 40-passenger model patterned after a new German design. It could be produced with a Mercedes-Benz or a MAN diesel engine. Low profile tires allowed the bus to have a floor height 22 inches from the ground. It was not a success and none were ever sold.” - City Transit Buses of the 20th Century • William A. Luke & Linda L. Metler
I think DeLorean went into the future in one of his cars and saw a dart SLF with pointer 2 and thought nice ,the design was so different for its time ,if he built it in Northern Ireland who knows U.K. operators could of been interested ,I’ve driven low floor darts for TfL and were nice so I can imagine this would of been a game changer for the late 70s when buses still had a step up or two thanks for this video ,take care Mark 😊😊
I agree, the O305 and O405 are so iconic and were so typical in Germany from the 70s to the 90s and early 00s. Still such a great, iconic design, the german Routemaster.
What a shame. The DMC-80 looks so much better than anything I have ever seen in the "US transit bus" department. The standard dimensions for a transit bus would be 2.55 m wide by 12 m long, so that's a hair under 100 inches by 39 feet 4 inches and change.
I immediately saw it was based on the VOV II square shaped body that was later to become prolific in European cities from the 1980s onwards. I'm astounded it was concieved in 1975. They were everywhere in Spain when I visited in 1999, most were Mercedes O405s with a smattering of MANs. Many were stepless low floor interior. Now I learn DeLorean we're basically trying to introduce a VOV II to the US market all the way back in 1979. I'm gobsmacked to say the least. PS Jeffrey, are you willing to do a feature on those devices they fit on the wheel of buses and trucks the Hubodometer? Two of the most popular brands Veeder Root and Engler later Stemco were made in Connecticut and New Jersey respectively. I collect them. I was fascinated seeing them in action on the wheels of buses growing up. Still am.
I think the Hubdometers are a thing of the past. We have had them here in New Zealand, but lately I can't remember seeing them on trucks and buses, maybe because of modern electronics in vehicles. What were they meant for?
@@mohabatkhanmalak1161 I have heard they were used for tyre tracking and as a robust alternative method to track mileage. I corresponded with a member of the Engler family who invented the device originally as a way to record mileage for truck trailers but they ended up spreading to the trucks them selves as well as buses and coaches as a reliable method. Built-in odometers commonly stopped working and this was an easy way to fix that. Now they are again mostly used for truck trailers as originally intended and it's relatively rare for vehicles themselves to have them, though there is a hold out bus company in my area that still attaches them. They recently passed as a family concern to one of the multinationals, so likely to stop using them. I understood New Zealand had them as compulsory fitment so vehicles 3 tonnes or over for road user tax purposes for decades. I have a Veeder Root dating from 1978 with a NZ specific serial code stamped on the face. With odometers integrated with vehicle computer systems, they must have relaxed that decades long requirement. Anyway, I just love their aesthetics myself.
The VOV and VOV II are such beautiful, iconic designs. They were so typical from the 70s to the 90s in large parts of Europe, but especially here in Germany, of course, where every town had them and everyone has ridden them at least once.
@@mohabatkhanmalak1161 They are for measuring accurately the mileage of the vehicle, especially for older vehicles where it may roll over on the dashboard or the pixel fade or just as a back up afaik. They are still used in the UK afaik.
What a coincidence, I was just reading today about the VöV Standardlinienbus (Standard city bus) and the S 80 prototypes, and I come across your video!
Hi Jeffrey, Ireland has a rich bus history from Leyland, Van Hool, Bombardier, UK manufacturers and Wright Bus. You recently did a video on the DMC-80 bus and which included its design being used in a bus manufactured in Ireland. I remember these Irish/Canadian/American venture buses as a kid and young adult. As a kid, these buses were exciting to see. Bright colours, cloth seats and modern looks. There was interest in these buses too because they were manufactured in Ireland. Unfortunately, as they continued into service, their flaws became apparent. I remember they demonstrated flimsiness. The interior panels, seats and glass rattled, shook and banged about. The Detroit engines roared on the roads of Dublin and the Irish countryside. However, its sound was so intrusive into the bus interior. The rear seats got very hot being close to the rear engine. The suspension made mechanical noises as it crashed about on Irish roads including wallowing and dipping causing motion illness. The vehicles were later confirmed to be not reliable from broken fuel tanks and cracked subframes from rough Irish Roads. It was found through research that the buses were found to be thirsty and were more expensive than expected to keep maintained. However, I loved the KE type because it was fast and looked smarter than the double decker types. I would appreciate you researching the buses conception, manufacture, service and retirement and including these in a video on your channel. If possible, your video could include the KC, KD and KE versions. Your attention with this matter is appreciated. Warm regards Adrian Byrne (Dublin)
Hello! Thanks for the memories of the K-type of buses in Ireland! I'll look into the subject more...I also have the Ian Allan photo album book "Dublin Bus" which shows all of these types, so I will go through it again for a possible video in the future. Thank you very much for watching from Dublin!!
I've seen DMC 80 busses in Manhattan. The 5 boroughs is a horrible place to run a competitive business. The general proportions were common in Gillig California Low Busses and others, and only the hard corners of the imperfect box made it stand out. I personally experienced the trendy lift feature, when a wheelchair rider tried to board a Gillig Phantom, and the whole mechanism jammed. Because the lift was so impractically low, it had no real leverage moments and the gate was immensely heavy. The slab made a perfect ram if you chose to head on with a Christina or Phantom, but these busses were far taller above the ground than the DMC 80. Low height and goofy profile tires is how the corporate board room decides that their drawing is a failure. I doubt you can drive the DMC into the NYC Port Authority Garage without bottoming out hard and dragging metal on the asphalt, and the impossible clearance guarantees extra roadsalt damage and mechanics grumbling.
Ok, fair enough: we don't have the garage of the NYC Port Authority in Europe/Germany, but we do have winter and salt. These buses ran for decades through our winters and unless you tell me, that the salt is saltier in the USA, I don't see such a lot of a problem with that bus design.
4:15 It should be noted that these weren't bus models, but specification concepts that were published as guidelines for manufacturers, in order to result in more ecological bus models where various parts from various manufacturers would become interchangeable. For instance, the front wind shield of a Mercedes O405 breaks and can be replaced with a part from MAN because their equivalent model uses the exact same shape.
Thanks for that info. Interesting to see, that the promo-photos were shot in Hamburg‘s „City Nord“, a newly built quarter mimicking what was a German interpretation of an American business park. Most of these buildings have been torn down and were replaced by less brutalist designs.
FFG = Fahrzeugwerkstätten Falkenried GmbH = Vehicle workshops Falkenried (district in Hamburg) GmbH (Limited liability company). After the Hamburg tram was abolished in 1978, there were only Mercedes buses in Hamburg for 10 years. Of course, nobody from Mercedes paid any bribes. However, the FFG holds the patent that articulated buses with rear engines and third axle drive do not collapse when accelerating. Bus and escalator repairs and complete bus fleet management are probably the main business today. All my opinion😉
@@JeffreyOrnstein I have now corrected the text a little. I have added GmbH to the German name of the company, and Google Translate can translate "drive of the third axle" better. Addendum on Mercedes articulated buses: Since only a service technician can put the bus back into operation after the joint is detected as overloaded, a regional train in Germany took the rear end with it at a railroad crossing. The students were evacuated in time, but the joint is now scrap anyway.
Fun fact: In the 80s, there were also for a brief time Hungarian Ikarus buses in Hamburg, which were based on the VÖV Bus design! Didn't last long though and were soon phased out due to lack of comfort and quality.
The University transit system I drove for purchased a dozen Scania CN112 buses in the mid 1980s. They were assembled in Connecticut using domestic steel tubing and imported drivetrains. Looking at this video their VOV influences looks really obvious, the main visible difference being the front fascia. Us drivers really liked them because they were very comfortable to drive and very quiet, the only downside being the relatively fragile lower side panels proved vulnerable to snowbanks and they were so quiet pedestrians would walk right out in front of you because they didn't hear you coming. Fortunately they also had good brakes. Its too bad Scania's attempt to enter the US transit market didn't pan out because I much preferred them to the RTS and Flxibles I drove at my second University transit system.
I didn't know about this at all! One thing I did know about was, CIE's FFG-designed bus was the successor to a prototype made for them by Van Hool, who they had a relationship with at the time, in Belgium, you can find a 1977 photo of it online, this also had a Detroit diesel engine, apparently because CIE had positive experience of them in their GM-built trains.
European buses at the time were 2.5 metres wide. This equates to 8ft 2.5 inches, or 98.5 inches. That could explain the width. European buses were varying lengths at the time, but 36 feet was common. That works out at 432 inches, or 11.07 metres. 11 metres was a common European length.
@@JeffreyOrnsteincurrent standard width is 2,55. Length varies a bit, but 12.2 seems pretty standard. Here in Holland you also find a lot of 2 axle/13 meter buses on the intercity lines, as well as 15 meters with a 3rd axle.
And presumably 36.7ft corresponds to 11m? The prototype being designed in Germany would have been all metric, which would probably confuse a few of our American cousins!
Hello! Oh yes, those two dots...I was trying to replicate it, but my American keyboard and editing software was not having any of it, unfortunately!! Interesting about the dimensions...looking at it from my viewpoint, it does look like a typo...so I'm not sure if they intended to import a 98" wide model.... Thanks for watching!
@@JeffreyOrnstein I usually simply copy foreign letters per ctrl+c and ctrl+v. English language has the sound pf the ö too, it's in "urgent" (would be "ördschent" in german) or in "word" and "world" (would be "wörd" and "wörld" in german). Maybe they did not intend to import a 98" wide model but were a little "lazy" in changing things. I mean: The VÖV-buses did work wery well and all modern european buses are descendants. Why shouldn't they build a 1:1 copy? This bus would have been metric, and 2.5 m are a good width for a metric bus. So why not?
@@JeffreyOrnstein All keyboards ALLOW this: To type German letter ß (“sharp S”, “eszett” or “scharfes S”), Press Alt + 0223. To type German letter Ä (Uppercase A with umlaut), type Alt + 0196. To type German letter ä (Lowercase a with umlaut), type Alt + 0228. To type German letter Ö (Uppercase O with umlaut), type Alt + 0214. To type German letter ö (Lowercase o with umlaut), type Alt + 0246. To type German letter Ü (Uppercase U with umlaut), type Alt + 0220. To type German letter ü (Lowercase u with umlaut), type Alt + 0252.
Very interesting, so essentially a MAN SL202 VOV Body but an Americanised version. In New Zealand we got both VOV style bodies on Mercedes and MAN buses :)
Hi Jeffrey, Can you please do a video on the follow on bus to the DMC-80 that was manufactured in Ireland. This was the Bombardier/GAG/FFG venture. I remember these buses KE, KC, KD, KR and used the KD type regularly.
Hello my friend. Thank you for your reply. I can't remember the date or time, but roughly around the time Leyland buses stopped or was taken over by Volvo I think, there was a big change in the buses , that was from all over the uk. The new design, I remember a nick name they where given, they where called the Nokia buses, so obviously when the Nokia mobile phones where the popular phones to have. The reason why is when you looked at the front of the double decker buses, it did have the same oval shape as the front display on the phones. The reason why I mention this is because those buses, aswell as single deck buses and all the buses that have after them , all have the small size wheels as the Dmc 80 bus. The main two bus operators first and stagecoach have these buses, although there are classed as classic, but stagecoach use a different make, poss Alexander rather than the other type, poss by Volvo ( the problem with these new buses they don't always have the new of the company or type of model on display front or back. ). There where lots of Mercedes buses years ago that also looked very similar to the other buses, . When we had the bendy buses, they where by Mercedes but I think there wheels where just slightly bigger size, but not much. Anyway , I thought this might help towards collecting abit of info
Hello! Wow, thanks for all of the additional information! Especially about the Nokia buses! I don't think small tires would have worked in the US, just another reason why these buses were not selected!
Great video, He had his hands in a lot of projects here and there, he has quite the legacy,thumbs up, I saw that MAN emblum on the front of the one bus, bet it had the MAN engine in it, lots of research on these videos
Actually it`s a Büssing - which were later swallowed by M.A.N. who also took over the lion which is the city arms of Braunschweig/Brunswick. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BCssing
That bus is for sure where the Optare Excel came from. They were launched in first in 1995. Here's a story for you to research. When Leyland buses went under, a number of workers that were made redundant, pooled their money together, and created Optare, in Leeds, West Yorkshire. So I was told. Why the Optare Excel is quite clearly a Mark I Excel, is another for you, Jeffrey. Optare are most known for the SOLO Midibus these days.
Here in Germany the development of S 80 and Ü 80 buses changed the bus for future, especially of the citybuses! Following bus generations looked like a box, are low floor and have kneeling device.
@@JeffreyOrnstein Actually the outside design of the first Mercedes Citaro from ca 1995 was heavily influenced by the 1975 prototype. The 1980's shoe box buses look so much older, compared to both :-) That 1975 VÖV-bus II was really beautiful and futuristic looking; what a shame that it couldn't be preserved.
Actually the VOV-2 Bus wasn't a Low Floor Bus the first VOV-2 gereration was Build as a Classic HighFloor Bus and only the Second Generation which was produced between 1991 and 2000 was low Floor the S80 Bus was a Concept only
@@CKGerlach that's Right but the SD 202 was low Floor because they had to make it this Way because of the Set Requirements by the BVG the standard SL202 was actually High Floor
While the VÖV bus II from 1975 (the red one) wasn't low floor according to today's definition (no steps inside the bus to reach at least a part of the seats), it was still called low floor at its time, because it was the first bus to feature only one step inside, in contrast to the usual two or three steps. This was acheived by minimizing the wheels. Even the MAN and Mercedes S80 prototypes from 1979 still had these small wheels and a lower floor. In rough every day traffic, this concept didn't work very well, as the ride comfort and the tyre lifespan were suffering. Therefore, the serial production of second generation German city buses from 1983 onwards went back to traditional wheel size and two steps, until low floor versions with big wheel cases inside became a standard in the early 90's. The first real low floor city bus without steps was probaly the Neoplan N814 from 1976. That one was a completely different approach; in short, they built a double decker without the upper deck.
The S80 on this is one of two prototypes, the other being the predecessor of the Mercedes-Benz O'405 (1983 - 2001). The MAN Group and Neoplan built two similar models at the time. In terms of design, the SL 202 models from MAN and the N416 SL II looked like the O'405. The SL 202 made it as the MAN Americana SL40-102. The design made it to North America via a detour
The Articulated Models were the Predecessors. The Successors were mostly made by New Flyer with their D-Series. FFG also Builded actually a Articulated Version of the S80 this one was more in Resemblence of the MAN SG220
@@JeffreyOrnstein I used to ride in an AEC Swift that had a MAN engine and Renk transmission combination fitted to replace an internally corroded AEC engine with semi auto box. Sounded amazing if a little slow. Same engine and gearbox that went into American MANs.
During those heady days of the 70's it looked whatever Mr. DeLorean put his hands on turned to dust. Feel sorry for the man, not sure what was wrong, the people around him, his backers or himself. This bus project looks good, and he could have built up on it, improving on the type and the need as time went on. Not a fan of his 'Back to the Future' sports car, the stainless steel is off putting. Maybe he should have followed Henry Fords mantra of building what the people need and making sure it was simple and the best. 🐞
Interesting video. One thing: I guess that 98“ width is correct in this case since it complies perfectly with german legislation which allows a maximum of 2.5 meters. Looks to me that this is the same dimension the german original had, they just copied the blueprints. This would also explain the difference in length.
Hello! Thanks for the info! I guess it would have to be modified for the US, to make it wider and longer. But it didn't happen, of course! Thanks for watching!
A;so TransBus was a name used by Dennis vehicles in the UK after a merger with Walter Alexander (Mayflower) and Henleys Group. A couple of years later it was put into administration accused of falsifying records including counting payments twice. An unlucky name, perhaps.
Is that a very bad AI, or?.. Especially the bus that drove in the 90s in the German countryside and in the city somehow looked exactly like this, one to one
An interesting and previously unknown, in this house, story. But, of course, Jeffrey being a bit of a fan of the British Isles, just had to find a way to tie it in with these island off the coast of mainland Europe!
Yes, you can see it had the rear axle design MAN and Mercedes shared. A brochure in the video mentioned choice of Mercedes or MAN power which share the same 11 litre engine block design.
Back to the Future would be a Waste of the Bus. Go back to the Past! Thus allowing Comuters to allways arive in Time, without having to haste to the Bus.😂
I never heard of a DMC bus, very interestinf, thanks. But I dont believe it, it is not even stainless steel. Looks like any other bus, sure nobody wants to buy that.
@@JeffreyOrnstein glad you did not take it so serious 👍😅 awesome information and good video, learned something new. It would look so dope but there were aluminium greyhound busses in the USA but they did not have this sleek design.
John Delorean may have been a wreck as a human being but he sure came up with some interesting vehicles. I was surprised that they built that many of those cars. Personally, I’m not a fan of sports cars. I’m a sedan man so I wonder how he would have designed and built a larger sedan. Literally a sharp looking bus. To the point where one could cut themselves by brushing up against it. Perhaps he did it to defy GM and the curves of the RTS. Great video Jeffery and keep them coming.
Hi Jeffrey. I've got to say that is one tidy bus. Really smart, modern looking bus. It looks brand new, I could easy see it riding along are British towns and cities. (Except the God awful green Irish bus, what the hell happened????). Well except for that one, I have to say now you pointed it out, it's the small size wheels that makes it look so smart. As I'm not mechanically all that minded, I don't understand why it would be a problem on American roads?? I had the impression that most of your roads and highways are concrete?? Very flat. Are have times changed all that ?? Put next to the 3 American buses, they are ugly, and those massive big uy wheels make your buses look very dated, very coach like looking rather than a typical bus looking. Especially the back wheels. Yuk. The roads over here in the uk are .ore like a 3rd world country, like Russia back roads, as I speak of really bad experience just before Christmas just gone, driving down or main packed jammed crap motorway the M6 from Manchester to Birmingham, cost me a fortune to fix my car after , and that's when I spent alot getting all the odd jobs on the car a month before. But as for main guy, he's a legend in my books. Weather he ment to or not, he got one over the shit british government , investing all that money to build the car plant in Northern Ireland hahaha, and you better believe it, the iron lady was not imposed. Thatcher. She got her own back on the uk population, well the poor population like my family and the north of England. Anyway very interesting video Jeffrey
Hello Lloyd!! Thanks for your detailed comment! I think the problem is that in America, everyone likes and wants everything big and tall. Low-floor buses were not popular (reduces the number of seats), but it was then mandated by the federal government, so now, all buses are low-floor. I think the problem with small wheels is that it makes the bus go slower. I've never seen a bus in service with wheels like that here. It's all full-size. Or bigger. Much bigger sometimes. Thanks for watching!
Hello my wise old friend. I don't no what type of car you drive, I myself drive ATM a Ford fiesta mk 5, which has been reliable soo far. I have terrible look with dam cars, but anyway I remember seeing and hearing about ford wanting to have there new cars being the same as there cars designed in Europe as in America, which they started with what at the time was a brilliant super cool ford escort mk 3 I think, at the time ford where the cool cars to have back in the 80s. But ford America for so God knows reason couldn't help themselves and brought out there version, made it look like it was thrown in mass gay pride designed by a blind drag queen, with all the tacky plastic crome and what not, but I like clean Squaresh cars, soo the next ford fiesta model to come out was a horrible roundsh ugly useless windows that get smaller the further back you go, yes, yes I know the new design kinetic design reason for it, but for years before they release the dam thing it was fir ever shown in the car mags, for ever going on about the new design of the dash board mainly infotainment system (where the nobs n stuff) was designed strongly influenced by the mobile phone lol. Oo you know I mentioned about the bendy buses the tried getting everyone and bus companies to buy n use where made buy Mercedes ( I think to replace the double Deckers, why??? Dunno. Nobody liked them, including the drivers. They could only use on main straight trunk type of roads and needed extra training for drivers, also needed a hugh area to turn around , not ideal here in the tiny crowed packed out towns n city roads,and like the hugh hummer cars only did 6 miles to the gallon, which fuel over here is mega expensive. ) , they didn't last long. But I was watching a long video by another serious bus geek 😅😅, that had filmed over an hours worth, of buses being used at the time, on the streets in cities, coming n going in and out of bus stations, this was in a city called sheffield in the north of England, very industrialized not that far from me, on the side of the hills from Manchester, I think it the early 90s, lots Leyland nationals , all in there own colors for the areas which I loved as it proudly told you of the areas they where from, anyway , I was shocked to see bendy buses being used and worse , it clearly showed the Leyland name at the front. Bloody ugly horrible looking plain thing. And I do remember use to seeing them around when I use to travel. I noticed they tended to suffer like alit of them did with the bendy part sagging down leaving the second part bus pointing down with the arse up in the air and typical for the time all the buses looking very dirty, desperate for a good clean, very noisy, thick diesel smoke everywhere and where you could at the time have cigarette n smoke on the tip decks. Arrrrh the good old days 😂. Yes I smoke. Soooo, my friend, not all things are better the bigger they are. Unless your talking what we men have in our pants and I'd love to agree if that was true, except for the poor buggef on the receiving end who'd end up walking not kneed , cross eyed with with a big smile on his face 😂😅❤
Hello! LOL, very interesting comments! Cars are not my thing so I can't comment on that, but here in NYC, we have hundreds, maybe at least 1,000 articulated 'bendy' buses on routes that are long and straight. From a company called New Flyer. Thanks again for watching!!
That's made up, it's true, but they!!! Are city buses and it's really scary what I hear here and I believe that for the time being, you have to ask Mercedes Benz😉And I already know the answer! Besides, I'm from Hamburg and my father was a Hagen Hochbahn, so you can't tell me anything😂
![The Ikarus 66 Story: The Bus that Lived in the Shadow of its Older Brother [Hungarian Bus History]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4jZu-4hKJrw/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Ikarus 66 Story: The Bus that Lived in the Shadow of its Older Brother [Hungarian Bus History]](/img/tr.png)
Fun fact: John Zachary DeLorean was born on January 6, 1925 in Detroit, Michigan, the oldest of the four sons of Zachary DeLorean, a Romanian immigrant who worked as a millwright at Ford Motor Co., and his wife Kathryn Pribak, a Hungarian immigrant who worked at General Electric. East European roots were strong there!
And he failed for good.
Hello! Thanks for the info!! Thanks for watching!
@@tomsommer8372 What do you mean?
i am sure, he is still 25% German, 25% Irish, 25% French and 35% Chinese!
or in other words, 110% American!
I'm German and I didn't even know about that. The US public transit - or lack thereof - is just a (politically deliberate) tragedy.
Glad you found it interesting and thanks for watching!
I worked in Bus manufacturing for nearly 30yrs at Northern Counties Wigan, can I just say I enjoy all of your videos 👍
Hello! I'm really happy you enjoy my videos!!!! Thanks for watching!
Mr. John Delorean RIP was too far ahead of his time
In many ways, he certainly was! Thanks for watching!
@@JeffreyOrnsteinwas he screwed over by some of the main automotive companys in the US
A little more about that FFG and CIE link. CIE and Leyland had been close since the formation of CIE, with the complete vehicles being assembled at CIEs Spa Road works, initially the bodies came from Leyland, like the chassis as CKD kits but later Leyland licensed their body designs to CIE who used them until the last RA class Leyland Titan in 1961. The big problem with Leyland in the 1970s was poor spares supply, the ideology of privatisation started early in Ireland, in 1973 Spa Road was sold off to a joint venture between Van Hool and Irish commercial vehicle coachbuilders McArdle Ltd. The Van Hool McArdle double deck body went on all of CIEs AN68 Atlantean fleet and 65 bodies went to South Yorkshire passenger transport executive and A1 Service operators association in Scotland, these comprised 64 on Scottish built Volvo Ailsa underframe and one AN68.
CIEs railway engineers had got control of the bus side by then and started fitting Detroit diesel 6L-71s in 12m Leyland Leopards cascading their running units to older 11m Leopards. The Van Hool bus for CIE was at an advanced stage in 1977 when the Irish Government stopped funding CIEs new bus programme. By 1980 the situation was desperate and with a change of party controlling Dail Eireann the new plan was arrived at, get FFG to design four types of bus with the design owned by CIE and get international contractors to build a new bus factory in the West of Ireland.
The initial name of the consortium was Bombardier (Ireland) Ltd 55% owned by Bombardier and 45% by GAC, but in 1984 GAC bought out the Bombardier shareholding. There were attempts to export various models but they came to nothing and GAC (Ireland) closed in 1988, CIE then went back to Leyland, becoming a big operator of Olympian double decks.
Hello! Wow, thanks for all of that info! I know Bombardier was supposed be part of building these buses, but then pulled out of the project. Thanks for watching!
Hi Stephen, thanks for your comments. I always wondered why the Leyland and CIE relationship deteriorated especially since Leyland provided so many buses to Ireland. This was not fully made known. Was the spares supply issues associated with the union unrest in manufacturing like what was happening in company’s such British Leyland (BL) and who as far as I know owned Leyland buses?
Hi from the UK. I love your presentation style and well researched content. A Jeffrey day is a happy day. 🙂
Hello! Thank you for your very nice comment, much appreciated! And thank you for watching from the UK!!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein You're very welcome. I hope you carry on with your great work!
Little extra bit of information on those buses in Ireland. The first KC version delivered in 1981 used an American Detroit Diesel 6V71 engine. That engine was then subsequently used in all the double deck - KD Class - version of this bus. It was the familiar sound of the U.S. roaring around Irish cities throughout the 80's and 90's.
Hello! That must have been interesting to hear those American engines all the time, LOL! Thanks for watching!
I remember riding on Busses of the VOV 1 and 2 group as a child in Germany, mid 90s to the late 00s when the company SOLARIS started to become a major name in the bus sector of German public transit
Thanks for your memories of riding the VOV buses and thanks for watching!!!
Seeing the thumb, I saw our typical Mercedes O405. I can still hear the Mercedes O405 N2 sound in my mind, that powertrain had a special noise, I loved it
Must have sounded great!! Thanks for watching!
"ZF 4 und 5 HP 500/590 im O 405 - 25 Anfahrten im Vergleich" would be a nice video. "Mercedes Benz O 405 N SOUND" also.
But there are so many videos uploaded, at least here in Germany. The "ghost" sound, you can hear outside, is also typical, you know it must be that bus, even if you do not see it. 🙂
Greetings from Aschaffenburg near Frankfurt/Main
@@passerati_ab the one with the 3-gear box made a whole lot of noise. I could hear them from a mile away. Very nice buses tho.
Me, too. The SL II and its predecessor, the VÖV Bus, are so iconic - they were so typical in just about every German town from the 70s to the 90s and early 00s, and they were so reliable that I bet that some are still in use in some developing countries around the world. To me, they are the most iconic German buses ever, just like the Routemaster in London or the Renault TN in Paris.
“In 1976 flamboyant John Z. DeLorean introduced a futuristic sports car, the DMC-12. It was built in Ireland. By 1983, after almost 1,000 were sold, the car-building venture closed. There was also a DeLorean bus introduced in 1980 called the DMC-80. It was a 40-passenger model patterned after a new German design. It could be produced with a Mercedes-Benz or a MAN diesel engine. Low profile tires allowed the bus to have a floor height 22 inches from the ground. It was not a success and none were ever sold.” - City Transit Buses of the 20th Century • William A. Luke & Linda L. Metler
Hello! Well, now you know the rest of the story! Thank you very much for watching!!
I think DeLorean went into the future in one of his cars and saw a dart SLF with pointer 2 and thought nice ,the design was so different for its time ,if he built it in Northern Ireland who knows U.K. operators could of been interested ,I’ve driven low floor darts for TfL and were nice so I can imagine this would of been a game changer for the late 70s when buses still had a step up or two thanks for this video ,take care
Mark 😊😊
Hello! LOL, that's an interesting thought!! Too bad the bus never happened in the USA. Thanks for watching!
Our last O305 in our company just got sold, but we still have 3 O305Gs on the road today. Classic style will never be beat.
Yes, classic is often better!! Thanks for watching!
I agree, the O305 and O405 are so iconic and were so typical in Germany from the 70s to the 90s and early 00s. Still such a great, iconic design, the german Routemaster.
Great episode! I had no idea that DMC was into busses as well...
Yes! It's an interesting story about DMC! Thanks for watching!
What a shame. The DMC-80 looks so much better than anything I have ever seen in the "US transit bus" department.
The standard dimensions for a transit bus would be 2.55 m wide by 12 m long, so that's a hair under 100 inches by 39 feet 4 inches and change.
Hello! Yes, it was quite different from American transit buses of the time! Thanks for watching!
I immediately saw it was based on the VOV II square shaped body that was later to become prolific in European cities from the 1980s onwards.
I'm astounded it was concieved in 1975.
They were everywhere in Spain when I visited in 1999, most were Mercedes O405s with a smattering of MANs. Many were stepless low floor interior.
Now I learn DeLorean we're basically trying to introduce a VOV II to the US market all the way back in 1979.
I'm gobsmacked to say the least.
PS Jeffrey, are you willing to do a feature on those devices they fit on the wheel of buses and trucks the Hubodometer? Two of the most popular brands Veeder Root and Engler later Stemco were made in Connecticut and New Jersey respectively. I collect them. I was fascinated seeing them in action on the wheels of buses growing up. Still am.
Hello! I'll look into the hubodometer...I don't know much about them, but they look interesting! Thanks for watching!
I think the Hubdometers are a thing of the past. We have had them here in New Zealand, but lately I can't remember seeing them on trucks and buses, maybe because of modern electronics in vehicles. What were they meant for?
@@mohabatkhanmalak1161 I have heard they were used for tyre tracking and as a robust alternative method to track mileage.
I corresponded with a member of the Engler family who invented the device originally as a way to record mileage for truck trailers but they ended up spreading to the trucks them selves as well as buses and coaches as a reliable method. Built-in odometers commonly stopped working and this was an easy way to fix that.
Now they are again mostly used for truck trailers as originally intended and it's relatively rare for vehicles themselves to have them, though there is a hold out bus company in my area that still attaches them. They recently passed as a family concern to one of the multinationals, so likely to stop using them.
I understood New Zealand had them as compulsory fitment so vehicles 3 tonnes or over for road user tax purposes for decades. I have a Veeder Root dating from 1978 with a NZ specific serial code stamped on the face. With odometers integrated with vehicle computer systems, they must have relaxed that decades long requirement.
Anyway, I just love their aesthetics myself.
The VOV and VOV II are such beautiful, iconic designs. They were so typical from the 70s to the 90s in large parts of Europe, but especially here in Germany, of course, where every town had them and everyone has ridden them at least once.
@@mohabatkhanmalak1161 They are for measuring accurately the mileage of the vehicle, especially for older vehicles where it may roll over on the dashboard or the pixel fade or just as a back up afaik. They are still used in the UK afaik.
What a coincidence, I was just reading today about the VöV Standardlinienbus (Standard city bus) and the S 80 prototypes, and I come across your video!
Hello! Very interesting coincidence, LOL! Thanks very much for watching again!
Hi Jeffrey,
Ireland has a rich bus history from Leyland, Van Hool, Bombardier, UK manufacturers and Wright Bus.
You recently did a video on the DMC-80 bus and which included its design being used in a bus manufactured in Ireland.
I remember these Irish/Canadian/American venture buses as a kid and young adult.
As a kid, these buses were exciting to see. Bright colours, cloth seats and modern looks. There was interest in these buses too because they were manufactured in Ireland. Unfortunately, as they continued into service, their flaws became apparent. I remember they demonstrated flimsiness. The interior panels, seats and glass rattled, shook and banged about. The Detroit engines roared on the roads of Dublin and the Irish countryside. However, its sound was so intrusive into the bus interior. The rear seats got very hot being close to the rear engine. The suspension made mechanical noises as it crashed about on Irish roads including wallowing and dipping causing motion illness. The vehicles were later confirmed to be not reliable from broken fuel tanks and cracked subframes from rough Irish Roads. It was found through research that the buses were found to be thirsty and were more expensive than expected to keep maintained. However, I loved the KE type because it was fast and looked smarter than the double decker types.
I would appreciate you researching the buses conception, manufacture, service and retirement and including these in a video on your channel. If possible, your video could include the KC, KD and KE versions.
Your attention with this matter is appreciated.
Warm regards
Adrian Byrne (Dublin)
Hello! Thanks for the memories of the K-type of buses in Ireland! I'll look into the subject more...I also have the Ian Allan photo album book "Dublin Bus" which shows all of these types, so I will go through it again for a possible video in the future. Thank you very much for watching from Dublin!!
I've seen DMC 80 busses in Manhattan. The 5 boroughs is a horrible place to run a competitive business. The general proportions were common in Gillig California Low Busses and others, and only the hard corners of the imperfect box made it stand out. I personally experienced the trendy lift feature, when a wheelchair rider tried to board a Gillig Phantom, and the whole mechanism jammed. Because the lift was so impractically low, it had no real leverage moments and the gate was immensely heavy. The slab made a perfect ram if you chose to head on with a Christina or Phantom, but these busses were far taller above the ground than the DMC 80. Low height and goofy profile tires is how the corporate board room decides that their drawing is a failure. I doubt you can drive the DMC into the NYC Port Authority Garage without bottoming out hard and dragging metal on the asphalt, and the impossible clearance guarantees extra roadsalt damage and mechanics grumbling.
Hello! Thanks for the additional info! Yes, the DMC-80 would have been something of a disaster in NYC!! Thanks for watching!!
Ok, fair enough: we don't have the garage of the NYC Port Authority in Europe/Germany, but we do have winter and salt. These buses ran for decades through our winters and unless you tell me, that the salt is saltier in the USA, I don't see such a lot of a problem with that bus design.
4:15 It should be noted that these weren't bus models, but specification concepts that were published as guidelines for manufacturers, in order to result in more ecological bus models where various parts from various manufacturers would become interchangeable. For instance, the front wind shield of a Mercedes O405 breaks and can be replaced with a part from MAN because their equivalent model uses the exact same shape.
Hello! Ok, thanks for the additional information!! Thanks for watching!
Funny that you use these buses in your example. I inmidiately thought of the 405 and it's siblings.
This ecology is the exact reason 1980s and 1990s MAN/Mercedes buses are still running in New Zealand with original chassis' and engine work.
Delorean saw an opportunity to get DMC out of debt, but then he chose another option. Lol
Hello! LOL! How true.... Thanks for watching!
@@JeffreyOrnstein just imagine what could have been.
Thanks for that info. Interesting to see, that the promo-photos were shot in Hamburg‘s „City Nord“, a newly built quarter mimicking what was a German interpretation of an American business park. Most of these buildings have been torn down and were replaced by less brutalist designs.
Hello! Glad you found the video interesting, and thanks for the business park info! Thanks for watching!
FFG = Fahrzeugwerkstätten Falkenried GmbH = Vehicle workshops Falkenried (district in Hamburg) GmbH (Limited liability company). After the Hamburg tram was abolished in 1978, there were only Mercedes buses in Hamburg for 10 years. Of course, nobody from Mercedes paid any bribes. However, the FFG holds the patent that articulated buses with rear engines and third axle drive do not collapse when accelerating. Bus and escalator repairs and complete bus fleet management are probably the main business today. All my opinion😉
Hello! Thank you for the additional information on FFG! Thank you for watching!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein I have now corrected the text a little. I have added GmbH to the German name of the company, and Google Translate can translate "drive of the third axle" better. Addendum on Mercedes articulated buses: Since only a service technician can put the bus back into operation after the joint is detected as overloaded, a regional train in Germany took the rear end with it at a railroad crossing. The students were evacuated in time, but the joint is now scrap anyway.
Fun fact: In the 80s, there were also for a brief time Hungarian Ikarus buses in Hamburg, which were based on the VÖV Bus design! Didn't last long though and were soon phased out due to lack of comfort and quality.
@@torstenscholz6243 In the 80s, only Mercedes buses ran on my route (102, later 5). I "unfortunately" missed Ikarus😉
Great video Jeff 😊 a really enjoyable watch 😊. Keep up the great work 👍
Hello! I'm really glad you liked it! Thanks for watching!!
Thank-you.
Although I've been a bus fan for sixty years, I recognise that steel-wheel on steel-rail (raikways and trams/street-cars are the answer.
Hello! Yes, trains are often a good option! Thanks for watching!
The University transit system I drove for purchased a dozen Scania CN112 buses in the mid 1980s. They were assembled in Connecticut using domestic steel tubing and imported drivetrains. Looking at this video their VOV influences looks really obvious, the main visible difference being the front fascia. Us drivers really liked them because they were very comfortable to drive and very quiet, the only downside being the relatively fragile lower side panels proved vulnerable to snowbanks and they were so quiet pedestrians would walk right out in front of you because they didn't hear you coming. Fortunately they also had good brakes. Its too bad Scania's attempt to enter the US transit market didn't pan out because I much preferred them to the RTS and Flxibles I drove at my second University transit system.
Hello! Thanks for the additional info! The CN112 may be a good idea for a future video! Thanks for watching!
A handsome vehicle despite it's boxy appearance. Cheers! Great video.
Yes, it was quite a modern-looking bus as well! Thanks for watching!
Great video, I had heard about him doing this , to try and drag DMC out of debt, but had never investigated further….Thankyou 👍👌🇮🇲
Hello! I'm really glad you liked the video!! Thanks for watching!
The 80s had the right idea for the future. Square is perfect!
Yes, it would seem that way!! Thanks for watching!
Very interesting. I never knew about that bus. Thanks for sharing.
Hello! I'm really glad you liked the video! Thank you for watching!!
I didn't know about this at all! One thing I did know about was, CIE's FFG-designed bus was the successor to a prototype made for them by Van Hool, who they had a relationship with at the time, in Belgium, you can find a 1977 photo of it online, this also had a Detroit diesel engine, apparently because CIE had positive experience of them in their GM-built trains.
Hello! I'm glad you liked the video!! Interesting info about the Van Hool bus! Thanks for watching!
European buses at the time were 2.5 metres wide. This equates to 8ft 2.5 inches, or 98.5 inches. That could explain the width. European buses were varying lengths at the time, but 36 feet was common. That works out at 432 inches, or 11.07 metres. 11 metres was a common European length.
It could be why it was stated as such! Thanks for watching!
@@JeffreyOrnsteincurrent standard width is 2,55. Length varies a bit, but 12.2 seems pretty standard. Here in Holland you also find a lot of 2 axle/13 meter buses on the intercity lines, as well as 15 meters with a 3rd axle.
Wow. I didn't know this.
Thanks, Jeffrey!
Hello! I'm glad you found the video interesting!! Thanks for watching!
Those hamburg Merc Buses look like the custom coach buses from 1988 on that quinces and the nsw government used in Australia.
Hello! Interesting comparison! Thanks for watching!
The design reminds me at the line busses of Mercedes Benz, MAN and Käsborer here in Germany in the 90ies till the late 2000s.
Thanks for the comparison and thanks for watching!!
Well, they were all based on the SL II design, which was a standard bus design here in Germany, so they were basically all the same.
Dont take the dots from the Ö please. ;)
By the way: 98 inches are not a typo, that's the old 2.5 m european width limit (now 2.55 m (100 inches))
And presumably 36.7ft corresponds to 11m? The prototype being designed in Germany would have been all metric, which would probably confuse a few of our American cousins!
Hello! Oh yes, those two dots...I was trying to replicate it, but my American keyboard and editing software was not having any of it, unfortunately!! Interesting about the dimensions...looking at it from my viewpoint, it does look like a typo...so I'm not sure if they intended to import a 98" wide model.... Thanks for watching!
LOL, yes, it definitely would have confused us...a lot!!
@@JeffreyOrnstein I usually simply copy foreign letters per ctrl+c and ctrl+v. English language has the sound pf the ö too, it's in "urgent" (would be "ördschent" in german) or in "word" and "world" (would be "wörd" and "wörld" in german).
Maybe they did not intend to import a 98" wide model but were a little "lazy" in changing things. I mean: The VÖV-buses did work wery well and all modern european buses are descendants. Why shouldn't they build a 1:1 copy? This bus would have been metric, and 2.5 m are a good width for a metric bus. So why not?
@@JeffreyOrnstein All keyboards ALLOW this:
To type German letter ß (“sharp S”, “eszett” or “scharfes S”), Press Alt + 0223.
To type German letter Ä (Uppercase A with umlaut), type Alt + 0196.
To type German letter ä (Lowercase a with umlaut), type Alt + 0228.
To type German letter Ö (Uppercase O with umlaut), type Alt + 0214.
To type German letter ö (Lowercase o with umlaut), type Alt + 0246.
To type German letter Ü (Uppercase U with umlaut), type Alt + 0220.
To type German letter ü (Lowercase u with umlaut), type Alt + 0252.
Falkenried, not Falkenreid ;-)
Ok, thanks! And thanks for watching!!
Very interesting, so essentially a MAN SL202 VOV Body but an Americanised version.
In New Zealand we got both VOV style bodies on Mercedes and MAN buses :)
Glad you found it interesting and thanks for watching!
Excellent post - totally new to me. And I thought I knew buses.
Glad you liked the video and thanks for watching!
Hi Jeffrey, Can you please do a video on the follow on bus to the DMC-80 that was manufactured in Ireland. This was the Bombardier/GAG/FFG venture. I remember these buses KE, KC, KD, KR and used the KD type regularly.
Hello! I'll look into those K-type buses for a future video! Thanks for watching!
Hello my friend. Thank you for your reply. I can't remember the date or time, but roughly around the time Leyland buses stopped or was taken over by Volvo I think, there was a big change in the buses , that was from all over the uk. The new design, I remember a nick name they where given, they where called the Nokia buses, so obviously when the Nokia mobile phones where the popular phones to have. The reason why is when you looked at the front of the double decker buses, it did have the same oval shape as the front display on the phones. The reason why I mention this is because those buses, aswell as single deck buses and all the buses that have after them , all have the small size wheels as the Dmc 80 bus. The main two bus operators first and stagecoach have these buses, although there are classed as classic, but stagecoach use a different make, poss Alexander rather than the other type, poss by Volvo ( the problem with these new buses they don't always have the new of the company or type of model on display front or back. ). There where lots of Mercedes buses years ago that also looked very similar to the other buses, . When we had the bendy buses, they where by Mercedes but I think there wheels where just slightly bigger size, but not much. Anyway , I thought this might help towards collecting abit of info
Hello! Wow, thanks for all of the additional information! Especially about the Nokia buses! I don't think small tires would have worked in the US, just another reason why these buses were not selected!
A really interesting video as always. The DMC-80 is a really nice bus looks like a Lego brick
Hello! I'm really glad you liked it! Yes, lego-like is a good description! Thanks for watching!
Great video, He had his hands in a lot of projects here and there, he has quite the legacy,thumbs up, I saw that MAN emblum on the front of the one bus, bet it had the MAN engine in it, lots of research on these videos
Hello! Thanks again, I'm glad you liked it! Yes, that bus did have a MAN engine, you are right! Thanks for watching!
@@JeffreyOrnstein They had one of those MAN engines at that college i went to back in the 80s, fine engines
Actually it`s a Büssing - which were later swallowed by M.A.N. who also took over the lion which is the city arms of Braunschweig/Brunswick.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BCssing
Good to know, the more information the better
Very stout design with a huge bottom end that could take abuse.
A slight footnote The New Bus for London was built in the old DMC factory in Belfast.
Thanks for the additional information and thanks for watching!
That bus is for sure where the Optare Excel came from. They were launched in first in 1995. Here's a story for you to research. When Leyland buses went under, a number of workers that were made redundant, pooled their money together, and created Optare, in Leeds, West Yorkshire. So I was told. Why the Optare Excel is quite clearly a Mark I Excel, is another for you, Jeffrey.
Optare are most known for the SOLO Midibus these days.
Hello! Oh yes, the Optare Excel does look like it could be the S80's child, LOL. I'll look more into it. Thanks for watching!
Later aquired by Ashok Leyland of India who were originally an offshoot of Leyland UK.
They still use the British Leyland round logo.
Here in Germany the development of S 80 and Ü 80 buses changed the bus for future, especially of the citybuses! Following bus generations looked like a box, are low floor and have kneeling device.
And there was also the articulated G80
Hello! Interesting to hear how this bus was so influential! Thanks for watching!
Yes, that's right.
@@JeffreyOrnstein Actually the outside design of the first Mercedes Citaro from ca 1995 was heavily influenced by the 1975 prototype. The 1980's shoe box buses look so much older, compared to both :-) That 1975 VÖV-bus II was really beautiful and futuristic looking; what a shame that it couldn't be preserved.
I wonder if a bus made by Delorean could reach 88 miles per hour. 🙂
LOL, good question! If it goes back in time it would...I think! Thanks for watching!
Actually the VOV-2 Bus wasn't a Low Floor Bus the first VOV-2 gereration was Build as a Classic HighFloor Bus and only the Second Generation which was produced between 1991 and 2000 was low Floor the S80 Bus was a Concept only
Hello! Thanks for the info on VOV II! Thanks for watching!
But, the 80ies Berlin doubledeck Bus (MAN SD202), based on components of the VOVII was low floor from the beginning..
@@CKGerlach that's Right but the SD 202 was low Floor because they had to make it this Way because of the Set Requirements by the BVG the standard SL202 was actually High Floor
While the VÖV bus II from 1975 (the red one) wasn't low floor according to today's definition (no steps inside the bus to reach at least a part of the seats), it was still called low floor at its time, because it was the first bus to feature only one step inside, in contrast to the usual two or three steps. This was acheived by minimizing the wheels. Even the MAN and Mercedes S80 prototypes from 1979 still had these small wheels and a lower floor. In rough every day traffic, this concept didn't work very well, as the ride comfort and the tyre lifespan were suffering. Therefore, the serial production of second generation German city buses from 1983 onwards went back to traditional wheel size and two steps, until low floor versions with big wheel cases inside became a standard in the early 90's.
The first real low floor city bus without steps was probaly the Neoplan N814 from 1976. That one was a completely different approach; in short, they built a double decker without the upper deck.
The S80 on this is one of two prototypes, the other being the predecessor of the Mercedes-Benz O'405 (1983 - 2001). The MAN Group and Neoplan built two similar models at the time. In terms of design, the SL 202 models from MAN and the N416 SL II looked like the O'405. The SL 202 made it as the MAN Americana SL40-102. The design made it to North America via a detour
Hello! Thanks for the info! Yes, there were MAN buses that were also articulated in the USA. Thanks for watching!
The Articulated Models were the Predecessors. The Successors were mostly made by New Flyer with their D-Series. FFG also Builded actually a Articulated Version of the S80 this one was more in Resemblence of the MAN SG220
@@JeffreyOrnstein I used to ride in an AEC Swift that had a MAN engine and Renk transmission combination fitted to replace an internally corroded AEC engine with semi auto box. Sounded amazing if a little slow. Same engine and gearbox that went into American MANs.
Thrust to weight ratio for intro. Bmc? And early GTO? Curious!
Hello! Not sure the answers to those questions. Thanks for watching!
During those heady days of the 70's it looked whatever Mr. DeLorean put his hands on turned to dust. Feel sorry for the man, not sure what was wrong, the people around him, his backers or himself. This bus project looks good, and he could have built up on it, improving on the type and the need as time went on. Not a fan of his 'Back to the Future' sports car, the stainless steel is off putting. Maybe he should have followed Henry Fords mantra of building what the people need and making sure it was simple and the best. 🐞
Hello! Yes, DeLorean sure was a different character from many other auto entrepreneurs! Thanks for watching!!
Interesting video. One thing: I guess that 98“ width is correct in this case since it complies perfectly with german legislation which allows a maximum of 2.5 meters. Looks to me that this is the same dimension the german original had, they just copied the blueprints. This would also explain the difference in length.
Hello! Thanks for the info! I guess it would have to be modified for the US, to make it wider and longer. But it didn't happen, of course! Thanks for watching!
Ö isn't O. Those are two different letters as are V and W or N and M.
Ok, thanks.
Don't You Think Maybe That The New Dacia Stepway A.K.A. Rumanian Renault Is Sharing The Same Front Grill Badge In A Similar Way
A;so TransBus was a name used by Dennis vehicles in the UK after a merger with Walter Alexander (Mayflower) and Henleys Group. A couple of years later it was put into administration accused of falsifying records including counting payments twice. An unlucky name, perhaps.
Hello! Wow, that's interesting. Yeah, maybe there's something odd about that word. Thanks for watching!
Is that a very bad AI, or?.. Especially the bus that drove in the 90s in the German countryside and in the city somehow looked exactly like this, one to one
Nope, not AI...it's a real bus! Thanks for watching!
@@JeffreyOrnstein Really? Then I'll say thank you for showing!!
An interesting and previously unknown, in this house, story. But, of course, Jeffrey being a bit of a fan of the British Isles, just had to find a way to tie it in with these island off the coast of mainland Europe!
Hello Melanie, glad you found it interesting!! Yes, had to add the CIE bus, but hey, it's definitely part of the story! Thanks for watching!
So the German S80-ies were based on a Mercedes or MAN-engine/chsssis ?
Hello! Maybe. Probably! Thanks for watching!
Yes, you can see it had the rear axle design MAN and Mercedes shared. A brochure in the video mentioned choice of Mercedes or MAN power which share the same 11 litre engine block design.
Odličan video
Hello! Thank you, I'm glad you liked it! Thanks for watching!
Back to the Future would be a Waste of the Bus. Go back to the Past! Thus allowing Comuters to allways arive in Time, without having to haste to the Bus.😂
Hello! LOL, interesting thought, you are probably on the right track! Thanks for watching!
I never heard of a DMC bus, very interestinf, thanks. But I dont believe it, it is not even stainless steel. Looks like any other bus, sure nobody wants to buy that.
LOL, that's funny! Yes, it should have been stainless steel, so it would match the car. Thanks for watching!
@@JeffreyOrnstein glad you did not take it so serious 👍😅 awesome information and good video, learned something new. It would look so dope but there were aluminium greyhound busses in the USA but they did not have this sleek design.
John Delorean may have been a wreck as a human being but he sure came up with some interesting vehicles. I was surprised that they built that many of those cars. Personally, I’m not a fan of sports cars. I’m a sedan man so I wonder how he would have designed and built a larger sedan. Literally a sharp looking bus. To the point where one could cut themselves by brushing up against it. Perhaps he did it to defy GM and the curves of the RTS. Great video Jeffery and keep them coming.
Hello! Glad you liked the video! Good point on the sharp corners of the bus....it does need to be softened a bit, like the RTS!! Thanks for watching!
Wreck as a human? What have you achieved in your life? Started and built a production car? 😅
@@Low760 He got mixed up with cocaine and went bankrupt.
It is very...... square.
Hello! Yes it is!!! Thanks for watching!!
When square = modern was the thinking. I like how the Leyland National combined curves with square overall shape.
Hi Jeffrey. I've got to say that is one tidy bus. Really smart, modern looking bus. It looks brand new, I could easy see it riding along are British towns and cities. (Except the God awful green Irish bus, what the hell happened????). Well except for that one, I have to say now you pointed it out, it's the small size wheels that makes it look so smart. As I'm not mechanically all that minded, I don't understand why it would be a problem on American roads?? I had the impression that most of your roads and highways are concrete?? Very flat. Are have times changed all that ?? Put next to the 3 American buses, they are ugly, and those massive big uy wheels make your buses look very dated, very coach like looking rather than a typical bus looking. Especially the back wheels. Yuk.
The roads over here in the uk are .ore like a 3rd world country, like Russia back roads, as I speak of really bad experience just before Christmas just gone, driving down or main packed jammed crap motorway the M6 from Manchester to Birmingham, cost me a fortune to fix my car after , and that's when I spent alot getting all the odd jobs on the car a month before. But as for main guy, he's a legend in my books. Weather he ment to or not, he got one over the shit british government , investing all that money to build the car plant in Northern Ireland hahaha, and you better believe it, the iron lady was not imposed. Thatcher. She got her own back on the uk population, well the poor population like my family and the north of England. Anyway very interesting video Jeffrey
Hello Lloyd!! Thanks for your detailed comment! I think the problem is that in America, everyone likes and wants everything big and tall. Low-floor buses were not popular (reduces the number of seats), but it was then mandated by the federal government, so now, all buses are low-floor. I think the problem with small wheels is that it makes the bus go slower. I've never seen a bus in service with wheels like that here. It's all full-size. Or bigger. Much bigger sometimes. Thanks for watching!
and it even today looks way more modern the what you see today on American roads as a city bus.
Hello! Yes, but it may have been a bit too impractical for American transit systems, but it did look unique! Thanks for watching!
Hello my wise old friend. I don't no what type of car you drive, I myself drive ATM a Ford fiesta mk 5, which has been reliable soo far. I have terrible look with dam cars, but anyway I remember seeing and hearing about ford wanting to have there new cars being the same as there cars designed in Europe as in America, which they started with what at the time was a brilliant super cool ford escort mk 3 I think, at the time ford where the cool cars to have back in the 80s. But ford America for so God knows reason couldn't help themselves and brought out there version, made it look like it was thrown in mass gay pride designed by a blind drag queen, with all the tacky plastic crome and what not, but I like clean Squaresh cars, soo the next ford fiesta model to come out was a horrible roundsh ugly useless windows that get smaller the further back you go, yes, yes I know the new design kinetic design reason for it, but for years before they release the dam thing it was fir ever shown in the car mags, for ever going on about the new design of the dash board mainly infotainment system (where the nobs n stuff) was designed strongly influenced by the mobile phone lol.
Oo you know I mentioned about the bendy buses the tried getting everyone and bus companies to buy n use where made buy Mercedes ( I think to replace the double Deckers, why??? Dunno. Nobody liked them, including the drivers. They could only use on main straight trunk type of roads and needed extra training for drivers, also needed a hugh area to turn around , not ideal here in the tiny crowed packed out towns n city roads,and like the hugh hummer cars only did 6 miles to the gallon, which fuel over here is mega expensive. ) , they didn't last long. But I was watching a long video by another serious bus geek 😅😅, that had filmed over an hours worth, of buses being used at the time, on the streets in cities, coming n going in and out of bus stations, this was in a city called sheffield in the north of England, very industrialized not that far from me, on the side of the hills from Manchester, I think it the early 90s, lots Leyland nationals , all in there own colors for the areas which I loved as it proudly told you of the areas they where from, anyway , I was shocked to see bendy buses being used and worse , it clearly showed the Leyland name at the front. Bloody ugly horrible looking plain thing. And I do remember use to seeing them around when I use to travel. I noticed they tended to suffer like alit of them did with the bendy part sagging down leaving the second part bus pointing down with the arse up in the air and typical for the time all the buses looking very dirty, desperate for a good clean, very noisy, thick diesel smoke everywhere and where you could at the time have cigarette n smoke on the tip decks. Arrrrh the good old days 😂. Yes I smoke.
Soooo, my friend, not all things are better the bigger they are. Unless your talking what we men have in our pants and I'd love to agree if that was true, except for the poor buggef on the receiving end who'd end up walking not kneed , cross eyed with with a big smile on his face 😂😅❤
Hello! LOL, very interesting comments! Cars are not my thing so I can't comment on that, but here in NYC, we have hundreds, maybe at least 1,000 articulated 'bendy' buses on routes that are long and straight. From a company called New Flyer. Thanks again for watching!!
Very boxy .
Yes, it sure was!! Thanks for watching!
That's made up, it's true, but they!!! Are city buses and it's really scary what I hear here and I believe that for the time being, you have to ask Mercedes Benz😉And I already know the answer! Besides, I'm from Hamburg and my father was a Hagen Hochbahn, so you can't tell me anything😂
LOL, thanks for watching!!!
It's Jeffrey Ornstein Da NEW YORKA!!!!
LOL! What makes you think I'm from New York??? Thanks for watching!
@@JeffreyOrnstein Your accent of course. That accent is distinctively...NEW YORKA!
So you're a NEW YORKA!!!!!
i guess its hard to keep your sheit together when your doing so much coke LOL
LOL, that's true, for the most part! Thanks for watching!
No technical details, only warm air out of the mouth. Wasted time to watch.
Ok, sorry you didn't like it. You don't have to watch my videos if you don't want to.
@@JeffreyOrnstein
Sissy.