Most Common Dust Collection Mistakes
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- Опубликовано: 14 июн 2024
- Dust collection can be a confusing topic.. with advice ranging from do whatever is in your budget, to don't bother doing anything if you can't spend thousands! In this video I break down the key information needed to understand why dust collection is important and mistakes to avoid when setting up your system.
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Хобби
I got one of those dylos particulate counters and I think everyone should get one of those.
Even gentle sweeping with a broom will raise the particulate more than using a bandsaw with a good dust collection setup. For dusty jobs I can keep my mask on until the air hits a certain number I’m comfortable with.
Most of the time the air in my shop is cleaner than the outside air when I run air filters. I use box fans with Merv13 filters. I can get several of them for the price of an air cleaner
To those that have no budget like myself. At least get a woodworking or painters respirator. They aren't expensive and make a HUGE difference.
Truth
Do you have a recommendation for someone that works with metal and wood?
Great video brother. Thank you for the information. this is going to be a go to when I set up my new dedicated shop.
EXCELLENT comprehensive review of dust collection basics! Thank you
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for sharing those tips!
You bet!
Beautiful tie in to the bandsaw at 12:26! Don't offten see people do such a good job. Love it!
Haha, thanks! I try man.
Excellent vid. Thank you. I am in the process of setting up a wood shop and these videos are of great help.
Glad to help!
Really excellent tips, Caleb! Thanks! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thanks! You too!
Thank you so much for sharing very helpful
Thanks so much, Caleb! This video really breaks I down into simple language that I, at least, find really helpful. I’m sharing this video with some friends in the hopes that they’ll help me run some pipe for my system… ;-)
Haha best of luck!
i pretty much watch this video every time i update my dust collection set up
Glad to know it's been good for you!
Wow! I'm just now getting around to really thinking about this issue. I've basically just been agitating the dust around for about ten years with my shop vac and separator. I was about a week away from getting a 1hp dust extractor unit when I saw your video. Great info, just depressing. I just ordered a stealth mask instead. I've recently watched about a dozen videos on dust collection, but this video really helped me understand the bigger picture. Thanks.
Good overview. My shop is in my home's basement and I went with a 1 micron canister system (what I could afford) and made a simple shop air-scrubber with several MERV13 HVAC filters. The scrubber is built into the ceiling joist cavity using a HVAC duct booster fan with a 8' run of HVAC duct and has the ability to exchange the entire shop's air in about 6 minutes (filters above my work area and the outlet well away to circulate the air across the room). It stays running while I'm using my tools and leave it run for 15-20 minutes afterwards. For dusty operations I always wear a mask in the shop and try to perform sanding operations outdoors at all times.
Tip for those who have shops in their house... spend the time to seal every nook and cranny on your shop and seal all HVAC ducts that pass through the space (especially the cold air returns). Last thing you want is dust creeping into the rest of the house. I also have and use a MERV15 furnace filter to ensure my home's air is good.
Heck yeah! Sounds like you're really on it, that's a great set up.
Outstanding presentation. Helped some come compiles issues for me become simplified. Thanks
Great to hear!
I have nothing to say really, but I appreciate your content, and wish to help with the yt-algorithms.
Thanks!
Great explanations, as always!
Glad you think so!
Great info! Thanks for all the detail
Glad it was helpful!
Awesome information and explanation!!!
Glad it was helpful!
Great presentation on an important topic!
Thank you kindly!
Nice, informative video Caleb. Also glad to see a new video. Stay safe
Thanks! You too!
Great information. Well done!
Thanks!
Excellent video, hit major points to consider that I realised i over-looked a bit. Subbed.
Thanks for the sub!
.
Great video, calm, no nonsense cartoon BS and great speaker.
Thanks!
Great video, thanks
No problem 👍
I'm constantly developing my dist collection system. Thanks for the excellent information. You have a great delivery for your videos. One point I'd disagree with is that in a restricted airflow situation, a dust collector moter will over heat. This may be true for a vacuum cleaner situation but it's not for a dust collector. A dust collector motor is cooled with air that's not related to the air in the dust collector system. In fact, in a restricted airflow situation, the collector motor will see a reduced load (yes, reduced load) and will therefore actually run cooler. A shopvac type system will do the opposite. A shopvac will also experience a reduced load in a restricted airflow situation but since that same air is (usually) used for cooling, the motor will heat up. Thanks for taking the time to help us understand what you've learned in dust collection. You're right, its importance can't be overstated.
Great video!
Great video, thanks for all the details. I definitely need more “at the tool enhancements” I use plastic self-stick stretch wrap on my pipe joints and then add a piece of painters tape over it to avoid a loose dusty end issue. If I need to remove, there’s zero residue
Thanks! that's a pretty solid sounding technique
Great job!
Thanks!
Great tips! please be aware facial hair, even razor stubble will dramatically reduce the benefits of any tight fit, negative pressure particulate mask. ever wonder why you never see an active firefighter that isn't clean shaven?
Good tips. I would also run a braided copper wire through the system and connect to earth ground to illuminate static electricity/ sparks.
Great idea
Why braided? That will fill in the voids with dust. Maybe I’m all wet but solid is going to be just as effective in my mind.
Thanks for the great video! What about grounding your DC system? I have heard multiple opinions and am curious what you do.
Combustion isn’t a problem in small systems. And I’ve heard that even the large unit ones that catch fire are due to shorts and not static. That said… some of my hoses do build enough to be annoying if you bump them while it’s running.
Great video Caleb thanks for sharing, this is certainly going to be coming in handy as I've just built my first workshop and within the next month I will be installing the dust collection system.i bought the laguna P-flux dust collection system and can't wait until I get in all installed and ready for work!!!.On a slightly different note can you please tell me what the compressor is that you're using for your Mirka sander as I've bought one and need an idea upon the size of compressor to buy. As always buddy 💯% 👍 🇬🇧.
P.s. the compressor I should have said how big is the air tank and do you know what the cfm rating is? Hope your able to help!!!
That's super exciting! I'm actually running their electric system so my Mirka plugs into the vacuum and gets it's power from there. I've never used pneumatic sanders so can't really help with sizing... sorry.
14:10 given a constant pressure, flow is directly proportional to, not the square of the radius, but the cube. so a six-inch pipe actually has over three times the flow of a four-incher.
Thank you......just used your amazon link to order a mask like yours......
Hope you like it!
59 yrs old, been building stuff for 45 yrs. Grew up in my dad’s wood shop.
I recently bought a used Grizzly collector but I haven’t set it up yet.
I guess it’s not too late. It’s time.
It's never too late to improve the set up
Well done sir!
Thanks!
Thanks for this mate . I'm just planning out my collection system and the first thing I WAS going to do was step down from 150mm to 100mm , I will NOT be doing that now . I will run 150mm throughout the workshop and only step down at the individual tools as necessary . Also appreciated the 45 degree tip !
Glad I could help!
Great video and super helpful! BTW, the link for the duct clamps also goes to the stealth mask.
Ah shoot, thanks! Got that fixed.
Well. Those opening comments were encouraging. 😳
Here to be real 🤷🏻♂️
I'm starting out with a WEN DC3401 which has a 4" dust port but would like to upgrade someday. When I buy the rigid pipe could I install 6" and the downsize at the dust collector in preparation for upgrading someday? Or would it have a negative impact on air intake for the WEN unit?
Very much enjoyed the vid. Last I studied ductwork, was long enough ago to make my head spin when thinking about calculating pressure drops...Thanks for reeling me in!
Question: I went to Clear Vue and don't see the 6 x 4 x 4 splitters like you have; any idea where to get them?
Glad to help! Looks like instead of the box they’ve now updated to a 6 to double 4” wye branch. It’s on their site under pvc duct accessories
Caleb, this video educted me on the subject at the the most opportune time! I am in the process of setting up a woodworking shop in my two car garage. At this point only the miter saw station is connected to the Central Machinery dust collector. My question is what cannisters type filters would you recommend to modify my system? Thanks for the educational am informative videos. Keep them coming👍.
Thanks! Wynn makes really good filters and I think they have one sized for the harbor freight machines.
FYI I found and canister filter made for a big air compressor for $40 and works great-
Great video. I am wondering if folks out there have compared the Stealth Mask you use vs. the Trend Stealth...they look virtually identical except for color.
Good question, wouldn't surprise me if it's a rebrand.
Very informative. Can you talk about air cleaners? What do you use?
I've got some from Grizzly. There's a lot of great articles are charts about them. Big thing is just one big enough to cycle your air as many times as needed, and that filters down to that .3 micron range.
6:20 there’s truth in that from the filtration perspective- the filter gets more efficient over time. But that probably is coincidental with the collection becoming less effective as mentioned in the video.
And blowing the waste air outside solves the tiny particles blowing around anyway.
Our pool is going downwind of the shop inside venting doesn’t work for me here 🤣😂
And exactly on the filtration. Only functional if your airflow is well over the required amount. Otherwise… great your filter is extremely effective, sucks you aren’t catching the fines at the tool and they’re going in the air instead… because of how effective your filter is 🤷♂️🤦♂️
Could you please share a link to where to get your clean up hose reel? That looks fantastic! Thank you for sharing this information.
As well do you have a link for your clear view splitters?
My miter box sucks for throwing dust even though I have a big collection gate.but really good stuff man.
They're the worst
A respirator is the final line of defense. I have the same Sawstop with the same overarm collector and the intertia of some of the dust coming off the blade escapes the suction, so dust gets onto the table, into the air and onto the floor. I have a cheap shop air cleaner cleans down to 1 micron, but I am gathering information to make a shop air cleaner that cleans to 0.3 microns.
If it is a HEPA filter then the 0.3um listed efficiency is for the maximum penetrating particle size (MPPS). This means that anything larger or smaller than 0.3 microns is captured with an even greater efficiency. Most people assume that it will let through anything smaller but that is not the case. A filter with a merv rating is slightly different but but generally merv 17 is similar to HEPA.
Also important to note is that when cleaning these filters you want to back flow air through them rather than use a mechanical wiper. The wipers over time can wear holes in the material greatly reducing its efficacy. I've heard ~40psi @ ~16 inches should work.
Do you have any sources on blowing dust laden air around at head height? I have heard a few channels mention this and it makes no sense to me. Air currents in the shop are probably enough to bring particulates from any height into the air you breathe.
Great information, thanks for sharing!
A question for you: how are you measuring airflow at your tools? Also, have you tested performance with and without sealing the joints? In my experience, if you are getting PVC fittings fully seated (I use a touch of automotive grease on the pipe/male-end to allow them to seat fully without cement, there is no detectable leakage, especially at the pressures that a dust collection system is operating under.
I used an anemometer. I haven't tested.. but mines sealed and a friend has a practically identical system that's not sealed. From the dust patterns it's pretty clear his is leaking around the joints. I'd suspected that the grease you used to help fully seat the joints also sealed them for the pressures it sees. Handy side effect
On the table saw top vac cover, you can add a brush from a door sweep around it, this touches your wood but adds zero resistance, this way you get a much tighter air flow.
I like that idea, thanks!
Great subject! Seemed more like a collage lecture than down and dirty on subject. Reality wish youtubers got to the subject and put out info! have no time for a lot of background. Sorry for the dig but did have good information.
That's why I put in chapters, jump to the bit you want.
bro. what the filter you use?
Ewww I’ve always ripped my mask off soon as tool shut off lol good point I’ll keep it on
Haha I used to be so guilty of this 'till a buddy pointed it out. Just one of those things you don't always think through 🤣
Great stuff! I’m setting up a small workshop dust collector running off a 6HP shop vac. If the shop vac inlet is 2”, does that mean my best flow rate would be with 2” pipe? Initially it will be for a CNC and miter saw. I know you said that piping down reduces CFM, but what about piping up? Thanks!
This week I realized the video on this! HA. ruclips.net/video/seykIjz4WSc/видео.html
Short answer is piping up crushes flow even worse. I actually do an experiment in that video showing how bad it is... instead of writing you a book here just check that out when you get a chance and drop a comment there if you've got any questions. And perfect call on the big shop vac for a CNC and miter saw. Which CNC?
@@YouCanMakeThisToo: Thanks, I’ll check it out. My Onefinity Journeyman X-50 should get here on Monday! I’m building my table and torsion box this weekend.
"Air hates turning corners."
Im actually surprised there arent more 'smooth flex joints' out there for dust collection.
I have 4” systems (small 650 CFM) on my miter saw I have it T offed to a 4” port below back and 2” port that the tool comes with behind blade- based on what u said about 6” tee to 2 4” would I get better suction if I split to 2 2” ports instead of 4” & 2” on miter saw??
The 2" off the 4" probably isn't moving much air. If you split that 4" into two 2" ports they'd both pull real nice.
That said I'm no expert and if you're happy with what it's doing.. then rock on brother.
Would you please elaborate , if a moist powder is being moved into the cyclone dust collector it gets choked shortly I have used cloth bags and filter canisters as well, I would appreciate some help
They’re not made for moisture… don’t know what’s gonna help you there.
I have a couple of long sweep 90° elbows. Being (I think) better than a regular 90, is the two 45s better?
Basically the same
This video doesn't suck but your dust extractor does.
🤣🤣🤣
is it worth it to use 6" duct on a 1.5 HP system? It comes with a 6" inlet but it's capped at the tool with 4" double Y from the factory. Do you think it would improve the system to take the Y off and use the full 6" inlet?
If it has a 6" fitting, go for it.
Did you test air volume before and after taping your joints? It's obviously helpful, but I'm not sure the benefit is worth the cost and aesthetic mess created from taping (I actually care how it all looks), but the before/after Delta is substantive, then I'll tape the joints. Also, by not taping, I can more easily disassemble and reconfigure when needed. With the 6" PVC, the fittings are pretty tight even w/o tape.
hi i have a 2hp dust collector and a barell seperrator with a 6 inch hose going in from the dust collector to the seperator and a 4 inch hose outlet out of the seperator, i see you said that 2 4 inch hoses pull in as much air as a 6 inch so it got me wondering if i make a manifold sort of like what you are using when you split into 2 4 inch hoses , if i do this at my seperator 2 ports for 4 inch hoses rather than just 1 would i be pulling more air out of each hose than how it is now 1 inch outlet then splitting into 2. I hope you understood my question D: .
If the inlet port on your separator is 4" you won't get anything extra by building a manifold because it's already been downsized.
@@YouCanMakeThisToo thats exactly what i mean, its 6" going in from my dust collector to the seperator so if i make a 6"(currently 4" out single port) out with a manifold with 2 4" outlets, so im thinking if i do this each of those ports should pull in about the same as the 1 4" port i have now.
You mentioned you use the stealth mask, which I looked up.
It doesn't mention which filters will work with it.
What filters do you use?
They have their own filters
So, you use significant lengths of 6" sewer pipe. Does this originate at the dust collector or after 4' pipe at the dust collector?
It’s 6” out of the cyclone. Going from small to bigger really kills flow.
Your hand plane about to fall off the wall is causing me distressing anxiety 😂
Which Clearvue do you have? Satisfaction level? I’m ALMOST ready for my next.
It's the CV1800 with 16" impeller, I think they changed their nomenclature recently though.
@@YouCanMakeThisToo thanks! I did see the nomenclature change. Easy enough. Now let’s talk audible volume: I have that lean-to/awning on one side that I put the compressor under. Would you trust the acrylic outside 24/7 even with no direct sunlight? I’m leaning towards the EF5 model just because of the metal cyclone body.
@@TarshaHomestead Oh that's tough. I'm really not familiar with acrylic performance outside. Probably be safest to just go with the metal.
On the. Table saw, aren't the overhead and inside cabinet shoot fighting each other?
Not at all, there's only a tiny sliver of air space around the blade that connects the two areas. They're almost entirely separate
@@YouCanMakeThisToo makes sense.
Super informative. Criminally low likes on this video.
Thanns for watching!
Holy crap. Right off the get go. That hand plain hanging off the wall makes me nervous.
That tenuous hand plane gets me SO many more comments. It’s never getting fixed.
Not a criticism or being mean or whatever but all that SD green would make me nuts. It either paint it, hide it, or use metal Lol
It’s all good man, almost a decade on the internet has taught me to accept folks love sharing their pet peeves more than anything 😂 it’s like an irresistible natural compulsion or something
What if you pipe it outside?
Any idea what the minimum velocity needed on vertical runs to allow the bigger particles to be lifted? I'm pretty sure a basic shop vac won't lift heavier particles with a 6" pipe, there should be a simple velocity rule but I've no idea what it is.
Shop vac won't do anything with a 6" line.
@@dougprentice1363 yes I know, that wasn't the question
The full answer is beyond my knowledge.. but I can put you on the path. Volume and pressure are very different things in flow. What you’re asking isn’t a function of volume (cfm), but of what’s called static pressure, on larger systems that’s a rating that’s normally listed. Im unsure about static pressure needs in systems to vertically lift chips… most standards are written around cfm just because that’s the easiest to measure with an anemometer instead setting up a pitot tube. That doesn’t mean the info isn’t out there though.
Hope that helps some.
Sommerfield tools for wood/router bits
you like them a lot?
Do you have any static problems?
You'll get a tickle from some of the pipes
What a great video, it covers all the elementary knowledge that anyone needs for good dust collection and when I do seminars I highlight the same points. 99.9% of dust extraction information on YT is total rubbish and I consider this video to be one of the few that gives the correct information if not the only one.
A couple of supplementary comments, any machine that has a closed cabinet and bandsaws are the prime culprit need an air entry at least as large as the exhaust port because if no air can enter no air can be exhausted. I leave my BS cabinet door cracked open with a piece of wood others have put vents into the door itself and then leave it closed and the fact that your jointer has air leaks around the hood most probably improves the extraction and I would not fix the leaks.
There is a simple recipe for good dust extraction, a 15" impeller and 6" solid pipe and all machines need 6'' ports so all machines need modifying unless the machine has two 100mm ports into a 6" duct. If a 6" duct is reduced anywhere including the machine port the maximum flow possible in the duct is dictated by the smallest pipe or port. A tip on the overhead TS guard/hood, remove the short pane of perspex at the end of the hood furthest away from the operator and watch the performance of the hood jump by a lot. The extractor can only pull what can get into the hood and if the hood is on the material being cut or close to it then not much make up air can get into it and if the front of the hood has an air entry the hood can be hard down on material being cut and no debris will be released through the opening.
I can write pages of this stuff all learned over many years of selling and advising in the industry so I had better stop here.
Thanks for the feedback, and that's all really great advice. Thanks! Really wish I'd have known you when I first started trying to do DC, it's been a lot of trial and error. Never thought about what you said about the table saw overhead port.. it does have a notch in it and now I understand why, could probably stand be to bigger though.
Duster...do you have a website or....where I could go to learn more??
I find your comments/info very helpful;
Thanks for sharing, i got 90% mistake 😂😂😂
You didn’t have to post your grade but thanks for watching 🤣🤣🤣
fix the plane in the background! it looks like it is getting ready to leap off your wall, maybe a magnet or 2 to stop it from coming loose? also dust collection, it never works all that well until you forget to turn it on and realize how much it makes a difference!
I've got those on a few of my planes, need to add it to that one for sure.
And yes! For me it's forgetting I unplugged my table saw hose and then running the saw and collector just to see a giant spray of dust on the floor
What about static electricity? Dust and debris (particles) moving through plastic pipes cause static electricity
Dust loads don't get high enough for combustion to occur. But you can definitely get little zaps when you touch the pipes while they're running, easy to ground though.
@@YouCanMakeThisToo: Great video! What is the best way to ground pipes? Thanks!
---- you put the collector OUTSIDE your work area - if I want to breathe those tiny particles which my system isn't containing, I have to leave the shop and walk to a different open area where the collector is located
I’m not very smart, but I am not buying the starvation theory as explained here. How would it make any difference to drop six down to four, split it and connect to two machines, versus split it six, then drop it down to two fours? It’s the same thing. They only way this could make sense is if both machines were being used. For most people, only one would be, and would make no difference what size pipe ISN’T being utilized after the split. Six inch, closed off pipe behaves exactly the same as four inch closed off pipe.
Probably this video is full of truth. However, by the way it is presented, it conveys the message of woodworking not being safe for hobbyists. It’s an activity reserved for pros and rich people. Maybe golf would be more accessible….
This wouldn’t be the case if the video started with the mask discussion.
24:15
I know. That’s the mask discussion I was referring to. I wonder how many hobbyist reached that part of the video. I only did because I like you man!!!
In the end the effort you put into lowering dust levels is your business and no one else's because it is your health and no one else's and don't let anyone tell you differently. If you become ill from dust inhalation then you can't pass the blame onto others which greatly simplifies things as well.
A point of view that is no concern of anyone but yourself. It is your health so carry on and see what happens in the long term with your own health. Should you invest in an expensive crash helmet or a cheap one, the answer is found when you come off the bike.
The larger the pipe the less velocity with the same vacuum source. Why is it better to run larger pipe so the chips go slower ? If your machine is 4” you run 4”not 6 then 4. A 90 is equal to about 20’ of developed length so the smallest pipe that you can get away with is best when there are a lot of bends. The flex pipe is the worst as far as killing airflow. Your shop looks like the septic system crawled out of the ground and is trying to get into all your tools. Get some paint on those pipes lol.
The friction cost is a lot higher in smaller pipe, it requires more static pressure to pull and big dust collector tend to be low pressure. My collector has a 6" inlet. I pull way more air at the end of that running 6" pipe and downsizing at the port to 4", than if I ran 4" pipe the whole way.
Also, most of my machines have dual 4" ports. And two 4" ports equal about the same cross section as a 6" pipe. If I ran a 4" pipe and split it in two, I'm halving my air flow to each port. Run 6" and split to dual 4" and I'm maintaining air flow.
When painting my pipes helps me pay bills I'll get the paint and put my time in it.
And ur 180 bend to ur band saw lol
lol it ain't stupid if it works.
This video is about 15 minutes too long.
We dont need a lesson on why dust collection is important...we know why. Just get on with the video
Just skip ahead, I talk about what I feel is important and what may not be known. It was new to me that with lung issues you can't take a "well, it doesn't seem to be a problem so I'm alright for now" approach, because symptoms means it's already too late.