5:17 I just did some research for this. There's nothing on Memory Alpha about when Lakota was launched, but according to Memory Beta it was 2328; towards the end of the Excelsior class production run, which the registry number would support. The Sabers were first launched around 2370. The battle between Lakota and Defiant took place in DS9 season 4, or 2372. So let's say Starfleet finds out about Admiral Layton's plot around the same time Sisko had in cannon and sends five brand new Sabers to apprehend him. That would put the Lakota at just 44 years old. Even if Layton was using the first Excelsior, which was launched in 2285, that would still make it at most only 87. So in order for the Lakota to be "more than a hundred years old" this battle would be taking place sometime in the 2430's.
Even then it doenst matter, because Lakota did get a full refit in the 2370s. Modernizations are totally normal even in the real world. Like look at the old Iowa Class Battleships that got upgraded in the 1980s with missiles and modern radars.
yeah, quantum torpedos are OP in bridge commander. I'm not complaining, they are awesome - but it does make any match up of quantum equipped ship vs non-quantum ship fairly predictable.
I remember back in the old days when GameSpy was still up, the Lakota was one of two Fed ships in KM that I could duel a Sovereign with and win. The other bring the Rhode Island. The Lakota's big weakness is the two outer impulse engines. They're easy targets with a wide accessibility angle, and disabling even one is a serious cut to the ships mobility.
Although there is no cannon proof of this, there is strong evidence to suggest the Lakota IS the Enterprise-B, renamed, on the Enterprise-C's launch. After all, we know the Enterprise-A was still in service, (Kirk states the ship will become the care of another crew; suggesting it continues on) when the Enterprise-B is commissioned. So that would have had to have been renamed (back to Yorktown, maybe?). We also have only seen two Excelsior class ships with this configuration. The B, which was some 80 years before TNG, and the Lakota, which was during the TNG era. Yet throughout TNG/DS9/VOY, all other Excelsior classes we see are of the same original configuration. It's rare/unique configuration again supports the theory that it is the B. (Of course, the real world reason was because they buggered up the Excelsior model, when they added the B modifications for Generations, and couldn't remove them, with damaging the model. But real world explanations are boring. ;))
I never knew that about the real world reason it was different. Thanks for that info :-). I really like that idea about it secretly being the Enterprise B. Well technically, i suppose it is. It has to be! lol. Don't think we ever found out what happened to the Enterprise B..
@@cotysalisbury861 is there canon evidence that it is the same configuration as the Enterprise B? Is it explicitly stated, or seen on screen? My Voyager knowledge has more gaps than TOS/TNG, so I could easily have missed something. Aside: The quantum torpedoes seems an odd thing for a ship of that time to be carrying. The Intrepid class didn't have them, and neither did the top of the line Galaxy class.
Well the ship was "lost with all hands due to a illness". The ship didnt go away, just the crew. The ship was obviously recoverable. But who would want to be aboard a ghost ship? Rename it and cover up the fact its the doomed Enterprise. Keep a powerhouse ship in the fleet.
@@simonpreston The Lakota received a refit in the 2370s. They gave her upgraded phasers and quantum torpedoes (they mention this in the Deep Space 9 episodes "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost"), and I assume they refitted everything else, too. Propulsion, power generation, shields, interieur, computer cores, sensors, etc. You are somewhat right with the Enterprise B, because this specific studio model was used in the Star Trek movies as former Excelsior prototype, and then - after the modifications done to it - as Enterprise B in Star Trek VII. For the DS9-episode they made some minor modifications to the model. For the movie they wanted to give the Enterprise B an upgraded look to a standard Excelsior. They were heavily influenced by upgraded battleships from World War II (like the HMS Warspite) and by Japanese hightech design (everything hightech came from Japan at the time). Since the movie was released in 1994, we didnt see any other Excelsiors with the "anti torpedo bulges" in TNG. Also because of budget reasons they used a lot of old scenes from the Excelsior in later shows. Remember, filming studio models is a very work intensive task. And CGI was even more at the time. As for a "in-universe"-explanation: If it was the former Enterprise B, I am sure they would have mentioned it in those episodes. However, although we only see two of those "bulkier" Excelsior class ships (Lakota and Enterprise B), it is likely to assume that by the time those were launched a few others might have been modified in the same way. Considering that the Lakota had a very high registration number (NCC 42768) it is also likely that she was a late vessel of her class, or that this is a specialized modification only done to a few ships, or that it wasnt a successfull modification, and they went back to the original design. We also dont know about the fate of the Enterprise B in canon. ;)
The class is a century old but Strfleet built them constantly throughout the century so it may be a much younger ship of a much older class. It is the feds workhorse.
@@RetroBadgerGaming and also “if they’ve been tinkering with the weapons who knows what they’ve done to the warp drive”. Implying that the defiant would not be able to outrun the Lakota at warp speed.
I'm not so sure the Lakota had armor plating. The commander was surprised to see the Defiant had ablative hull armor. I'm surprised the ship lasted as long as it did. When she faced off against just Defiant, it was almost a draw. Both ships could finish the other off with quantum torpedoes, implying the Defiant gave as good as she got. It suggests the Lakota's shields weren't modified so much that it could take pounding from more than one ship for very long. The phasers should have at least been more powerful in this match. All that aside, it's nice to see the B variant of the Excelsior class in use. The Enterprise-B and the Lakota are probably the only two on-screen appearances.
Completely agree with this. It needs stronger phasers and weaker shields I think. If you compare the Defiant getting hit by the main forward cannon of the Vor’Cha class in Way of the Warrior before they lower their shields, to the first few hits from the Lakota, it’s very clear that the Lakota’s phasers are blatantly far more powerful than those of the Attack Cruiser. I would imagine this battle would have been far shorter and the Sabres would have won, the Lakota would have crippled a couple of them before it’s shields failed
Impressive. The Lakota has resilient shields and decent armament. It needs type 10 phaser arrays instead of turret phasers and more of them. Otherwise an excellent ship. I would not be ashamed to be given command of the Lakota.
The Excelsior class starship doesn’t have armour as the captain was surprised the Uss Defiant had Ablative Armour so most likely it does not have armour and has to rely on their shields instead.
Has anyone ever gone into the files for how the mechanics of power levels and such work for this game? I would be super interested to know what all was actually affected by increasing/decreasing certain power levels.
The Excelsior is my favorite ship. From test ship for warp tech to flagship with the Enterprise name. She carried the Federation through Klingon and Romulan wars, was used by Admirals during TNG era, and the Dominion War variant was a relevant power. Plus you get to say "EXCELSIOR!"
Your comment on the phaser array made me think: Even if they were still using Excelsior class (and Miranda) you have to figure they'd have installed phaser strips on them at that point. ..[sigh] i really wish they didn't have to just reuse the movie models. Alas.
I'm pretty certain the mod has settings to disable the abandoning of the enemy ship in your games Options. Also, I think there is a setting in there to turn that bloody setting off regarding the phasers constantly missing, I like the idea that some phasers might miss, especially on smaller targets but it's stupidly overdone and needs toning down.
@@colinantink9094 maybe so but still, it's not part of the original BC game, I'm sure it's a setting along with abandoning ship in n the options menu, he might be able to adjust or disable them. Unless your sensor array is half destroyed or your shooting a shuttle from 50km away, the phasers should not miss as much as they do currently. It just needs toning down if it can be configured.
I think your hypothesis is correct on the phaser accuracy...you missed very few shots compared to your previous battles. Starfleet built Excelsior class ships for quite awhile...I doubt the Lakota is from 2285 as Starfleet spaceframes tend to last less than 100 years due to hard use (Warp travel, combat, hull stresses etc much like a modern naval ship does) Starfleet was going to decommision Kirks Enterprise after 40 years hard service. Klingon ships do appear to last longer as a D7 in the DQ in Voyager proved (Klingon ships are very rugged...plus Klingons live longer themselves so it makes sense)
I have mixed feelings about the Lakota. Based on its TV appearance, it's essentially just an Excelsior refit (itself an 80+ year design) with better weapons - no mention of ridiculous shields or manoeuvrability or speed, or even ablative armour, but still with plenty of phaser hardpoints. I know the Defiant had plot armour, but it beat the Lakota... yet this mod seems to favour the Lakota by quite some distance.
@@stephandolby remember different ships are of different weight classes entirely. The Lakota is a cruiser, the defiant is an escort class ship (a corvette/destroyer). A regular escort ship is expected to lose to a light cruiser, let alone a full cruiser. Escort ships are cheap and small and designed to operate in groups/wolf packs. I think the fact that a single defiant class (a superpowered escort ship) is 'almost' able to take on a cruiser is canonically fairly reasonable. Of course reasonable minds can differ.
I'm waiting for the 20 ncc-1701b vs ds9. Also,why don't you use the defiant or any other ship with cloak so you can watch the battle without taking damage.
That's pretty surprising to hear, I'm curious to hear in what way was Klingon academy's damage models better? I thought bridge commander's damage models are the best among trek games (and among the best for all space sim games)
@@keyboardt8276 really depends on the modder. KA started the entire concept of the "ginzu" damage modeling, and some of the higher quality mods exploited this to no end. In fact, I recall the Bridge Commander Solvereign and Galaxy models were imported over to KA with absolutely amazing damage modeling. The trade-off was in the game's frame rate. However, later modders did some absolutely insane and efficient modeling via Light wave editor. It's too bad that RUclips didn't exist during the games heyday.
I kinda hate some of the balancing in these games. It can make it seem like a jem hadar fighter is tougher than the sabre class which makes no logical sense.
5:17 I just did some research for this. There's nothing on Memory Alpha about when Lakota was launched, but according to Memory Beta it was 2328; towards the end of the Excelsior class production run, which the registry number would support. The Sabers were first launched around 2370. The battle between Lakota and Defiant took place in DS9 season 4, or 2372.
So let's say Starfleet finds out about Admiral Layton's plot around the same time Sisko had in cannon and sends five brand new Sabers to apprehend him. That would put the Lakota at just 44 years old. Even if Layton was using the first Excelsior, which was launched in 2285, that would still make it at most only 87. So in order for the Lakota to be "more than a hundred years old" this battle would be taking place sometime in the 2430's.
Even then it doenst matter, because Lakota did get a full refit in the 2370s. Modernizations are totally normal even in the real world. Like look at the old Iowa Class Battleships that got upgraded in the 1980s with missiles and modern radars.
I believe they used the Enterprise-B model on DS9 for the Lakota
In my opinion, having quantum torpedoes really tips the balance in the lakota's favor! I'd like to see this same battle using just photon torpedoes.
yeah, quantum torpedos are OP in bridge commander. I'm not complaining, they are awesome - but it does make any match up of quantum equipped ship vs non-quantum ship fairly predictable.
I remember back in the old days when GameSpy was still up, the Lakota was one of two Fed ships in KM that I could duel a Sovereign with and win. The other bring the Rhode Island. The Lakota's big weakness is the two outer impulse engines. They're easy targets with a wide accessibility angle, and disabling even one is a serious cut to the ships mobility.
😮😮The bridge interior of the Lakota is an outstanding aesthetic @ 7:30
I knew the Lakota got beefed up but wow, that was something else.
5:09 That's alright, Brex. You should be getting a new tractor beam installed next Tuesday.
Although there is no cannon proof of this, there is strong evidence to suggest the Lakota IS the Enterprise-B, renamed, on the Enterprise-C's launch. After all, we know the Enterprise-A was still in service, (Kirk states the ship will become the care of another crew; suggesting it continues on) when the Enterprise-B is commissioned. So that would have had to have been renamed (back to Yorktown, maybe?).
We also have only seen two Excelsior class ships with this configuration. The B, which was some 80 years before TNG, and the Lakota, which was during the TNG era. Yet throughout TNG/DS9/VOY, all other Excelsior classes we see are of the same original configuration. It's rare/unique configuration again supports the theory that it is the B.
(Of course, the real world reason was because they buggered up the Excelsior model, when they added the B modifications for Generations, and couldn't remove them, with damaging the model. But real world explanations are boring. ;))
I never knew that about the real world reason it was different. Thanks for that info :-). I really like that idea about it secretly being the Enterprise B. Well technically, i suppose it is. It has to be! lol. Don't think we ever found out what happened to the Enterprise B..
The AL Batani has the same configuration with quantum torpedoes. According to voyager Janeway served on that ship.
@@cotysalisbury861 is there canon evidence that it is the same configuration as the Enterprise B? Is it explicitly stated, or seen on screen? My Voyager knowledge has more gaps than TOS/TNG, so I could easily have missed something.
Aside: The quantum torpedoes seems an odd thing for a ship of that time to be carrying. The Intrepid class didn't have them, and neither did the top of the line Galaxy class.
Well the ship was "lost with all hands due to a illness". The ship didnt go away, just the crew. The ship was obviously recoverable. But who would want to be aboard a ghost ship? Rename it and cover up the fact its the doomed Enterprise. Keep a powerhouse ship in the fleet.
@@simonpreston The Lakota received a refit in the 2370s. They gave her upgraded phasers and quantum torpedoes (they mention this in the Deep Space 9 episodes "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost"), and I assume they refitted everything else, too. Propulsion, power generation, shields, interieur, computer cores, sensors, etc.
You are somewhat right with the Enterprise B, because this specific studio model was used in the Star Trek movies as former Excelsior prototype, and then - after the modifications done to it - as Enterprise B in Star Trek VII. For the DS9-episode they made some minor modifications to the model. For the movie they wanted to give the Enterprise B an upgraded look to a standard Excelsior. They were heavily influenced by upgraded battleships from World War II (like the HMS Warspite) and by Japanese hightech design (everything hightech came from Japan at the time). Since the movie was released in 1994, we didnt see any other Excelsiors with the "anti torpedo bulges" in TNG. Also because of budget reasons they used a lot of old scenes from the Excelsior in later shows. Remember, filming studio models is a very work intensive task. And CGI was even more at the time.
As for a "in-universe"-explanation: If it was the former Enterprise B, I am sure they would have mentioned it in those episodes. However, although we only see two of those "bulkier" Excelsior class ships (Lakota and Enterprise B), it is likely to assume that by the time those were launched a few others might have been modified in the same way.
Considering that the Lakota had a very high registration number (NCC 42768) it is also likely that she was a late vessel of her class, or that this is a specialized modification only done to a few ships, or that it wasnt a successfull modification, and they went back to the original design.
We also dont know about the fate of the Enterprise B in canon. ;)
The Lakota was pretty awesome. I remember the first time seeing it fight the Defiant. Very epic for its time🤘
It was but you would need 2 Lakotas to match Voyager even before Borg enhancements.
another reason why the excelsior is my favorite class of ship
The class is a century old but Strfleet built them constantly throughout the century so it may be a much younger ship of a much older class. It is the feds workhorse.
Wooooo u sounded like the founder when she told them to let them go to spread fear in the federation of there defeat lol
*"Thats alota firepower for an Excelsior class Starship!"*
Haha! The Defiant crew were visibly shocked.
@@RetroBadgerGaming I was too,here and in the Episode.
@@RetroBadgerGaming and also “if they’ve been tinkering with the weapons who knows what they’ve done to the warp drive”. Implying that the defiant would not be able to outrun the Lakota at warp speed.
Amazing what tech upgrades can do when an upgraded Excelsior could best a vanilla Galaxy.
I'm not so sure the Lakota had armor plating. The commander was surprised to see the Defiant had ablative hull armor. I'm surprised the ship lasted as long as it did. When she faced off against just Defiant, it was almost a draw. Both ships could finish the other off with quantum torpedoes, implying the Defiant gave as good as she got. It suggests the Lakota's shields weren't modified so much that it could take pounding from more than one ship for very long. The phasers should have at least been more powerful in this match.
All that aside, it's nice to see the B variant of the Excelsior class in use. The Enterprise-B and the Lakota are probably the only two on-screen appearances.
Completely agree with this. It needs stronger phasers and weaker shields I think.
If you compare the Defiant getting hit by the main forward cannon of the Vor’Cha class in Way of the Warrior before they lower their shields, to the first few hits from the Lakota, it’s very clear that the Lakota’s phasers are blatantly far more powerful than those of the Attack Cruiser.
I would imagine this battle would have been far shorter and the Sabres would have won, the Lakota would have crippled a couple of them before it’s shields failed
The Lakota had standard High density Armour no Ablative hull Armour 20cm thick that the U.S.S Defiant had.
remeber Defiant is a compact warship that is overgunned for its size
I'm surprised the nacelles didn't pop off xD
Would not mind seeing the USS Lakota and 4 other Excelsior class ships take on 5 Defiant class ships that would be epic
Impressive. The Lakota has resilient shields and decent armament. It needs type 10 phaser arrays instead of turret phasers and more of them. Otherwise an excellent ship. I would not be ashamed to be given command of the Lakota.
It was a good ship, It gave the Defiant a run for it's money.
This was a really fun to watch, what a great fight 👍👍
Thanks :-)
that was a good one! i should bust out klingon academy since you mentoned it lol
The Excelsior class starship doesn’t have armour as the captain was surprised the Uss Defiant had Ablative Armour so most likely it does not have armour and has to rely on their shields instead.
Yup if I were a Federation Captain of an Excelsior class , would pull a Sisko and armor my ships critical systems
The Lakota has High density armour not ablative hull armour 20cm thick that the U.S.S Defiant has.
I like the Sabre, good pack hunting ship.
love this game
7:22 They'll be stuck in the escape pods for two weeks singing Klingon opera!
Has anyone ever gone into the files for how the mechanics of power levels and such work for this game? I would be super interested to know what all was actually affected by increasing/decreasing certain power levels.
The Excelsior is my favorite ship. From test ship for warp tech to flagship with the Enterprise name. She carried the Federation through Klingon and Romulan wars, was used by Admirals during TNG era, and the Dominion War variant was a relevant power.
Plus you get to say "EXCELSIOR!"
Very good points there :-). It's a true battleship. The Enterprise E is the only worthy cannon successor in my opinion.
The excelsior is just a total classic. Also, it is quite robust and easy to refit. A good ship design that is still useful.
Iron jaw bitch wins again... didn't think that one Sabre was ever gonna die
Your comment on the phaser array made me think: Even if they were still using Excelsior class (and Miranda) you have to figure they'd have installed phaser strips on them at that point. ..[sigh] i really wish they didn't have to just reuse the movie models. Alas.
I'm pretty certain the mod has settings to disable the abandoning of the enemy ship in your games Options. Also, I think there is a setting in there to turn that bloody setting off regarding the phasers constantly missing, I like the idea that some phasers might miss, especially on smaller targets but it's stupidly overdone and needs toning down.
I think the sensor array power setting directly changes the miss percentage.
@@colinantink9094 maybe so but still, it's not part of the original BC game, I'm sure it's a setting along with abandoning ship in n the options menu, he might be able to adjust or disable them.
Unless your sensor array is half destroyed or your shooting a shuttle from 50km away, the phasers should not miss as much as they do currently.
It just needs toning down if it can be configured.
I think your hypothesis is correct on the phaser accuracy...you missed very few shots compared to your previous battles. Starfleet built Excelsior class ships for quite awhile...I doubt the Lakota is from 2285 as Starfleet spaceframes tend to last less than 100 years due to hard use (Warp travel, combat, hull stresses etc much like a modern naval ship does) Starfleet was going to decommision Kirks Enterprise after 40 years hard service. Klingon ships do appear to last longer as a D7 in the DQ in Voyager proved (Klingon ships are very rugged...plus Klingons live longer themselves so it makes sense)
Well the Lakota is an Excelsior Refit variant, such as the Enterprise B. So yea, it is probably 80-100 years old.
Well, it was heavily upgraded for the Dominion war.
Have you done the breen against ds9
How about a mode that would let you pull a Sisko with an Excelsior class and give it armor
I have mixed feelings about the Lakota. Based on its TV appearance, it's essentially just an Excelsior refit (itself an 80+ year design) with better weapons - no mention of ridiculous shields or manoeuvrability or speed, or even ablative armour, but still with plenty of phaser hardpoints. I know the Defiant had plot armour, but it beat the Lakota... yet this mod seems to favour the Lakota by quite some distance.
Remember both ships pulled their punches
@@haroldchase1881 Sisko said the Lakota was about to destroy the Defiant.
@@SiXiam The Defiant was one good hit away from finishing off the Lakota. I think it's safe to assume that they didn't fire quantum torpedoes either.
@@stephandolby remember different ships are of different weight classes entirely. The Lakota is a cruiser, the defiant is an escort class ship (a corvette/destroyer). A regular escort ship is expected to lose to a light cruiser, let alone a full cruiser. Escort ships are cheap and small and designed to operate in groups/wolf packs. I think the fact that a single defiant class (a superpowered escort ship) is 'almost' able to take on a cruiser is canonically fairly reasonable. Of course reasonable minds can differ.
Try it against the Domino bug ship.
I'm waiting for the 20 ncc-1701b vs ds9. Also,why don't you use the defiant or any other ship with cloak so you can watch the battle without taking damage.
Anymore Star Trek legacy footage?
Coming soon :-)
No chance against 5 Saber class.
Probably win against 3 . 😁
Richard I downloaded the game. Is there additional upgrades you can buy. The Graphics on your system look amazing. I really like watching you battles.
I wish Klingon Academy got the same attention and mods etc that BC did. It was a better game and the damage models were superior.
That's pretty surprising to hear, I'm curious to hear in what way was Klingon academy's damage models better? I thought bridge commander's damage models are the best among trek games (and among the best for all space sim games)
@@keyboardt8276 really depends on the modder. KA started the entire concept of the "ginzu" damage modeling, and some of the higher quality mods exploited this to no end. In fact, I recall the Bridge Commander Solvereign and Galaxy models were imported over to KA with absolutely amazing damage modeling. The trade-off was in the game's frame rate. However, later modders did some absolutely insane and efficient modeling via Light wave editor. It's too bad that RUclips didn't exist during the games heyday.
@@JakeWerkmeister ahhhh yes, KA, I missing having the ability to carve out a ships saucer section.
@@TonySquared09 "Hull critically damaged sir!"
@@JakeWerkmeister 😂😂😂
I would cut out their personal quarters for stating the obvious 😂
Anti-Borg ships that can't take out an Excelsior Class ship...
I kinda hate some of the balancing in these games. It can make it seem like a jem hadar fighter is tougher than the sabre class which makes no logical sense.
What you are no self respectkng cardassian you left survivors. Gul dukat would not be impressed.