Jeepers Captain.. that was a battle.. The Edmonton looks more beefier hull, and looked tougher, again the Lakota's nacelles.. oh gosh.. lol.. I would say both ships have their own something but almost even.. Yes, the ship battle scene of the Dominion war was hard to watch, all those ships kaboomed.. usually I like the ships battle but eeh.. just saying. Love the video Captain!😊🖖
Thanks Steve! I know what you mean, it wasn’t really a happy story was it? As an adult I see it completely differently. I’ll never forget seeing 2 Miranda’s escorting the defiant and being wiped out. Still, they won in the end. Good job there’s always a Klingon around when you need one 😉🖖
You can really feel the desperation of Starfleet with these old and retrofitted models. Even though it was sending "lambs to the slaughter", they decided to toss a bunch of weapons, shields and armor upgrades at old ships and then deploy them to the various fleets knowing full well that their chances of survival was low. It totally makes sense how so many ships were unable to stay with the fleet due to malfunctions even with the presence of engineers who can "turn rocks into replicators". That's what happens when you haphazardly shove a whole bunch of new technology into old ship designs and just pray that it all works out well.
The lakota and other ships upgraded to that spec were far more durable than what they were previously. The lakota stood up to the defiant and faired about as well. There were many that didn't get the armor and torpedo upgrades.
@@aaronatwood9298 They were far more durable and powerful than they had previously been, but most Federation ships had fallen really far behind as far as military development was concerned when compared to other races. Even single races that weren't part of a 150+ planet alliance like the Federation was were able to keep up to speed with military development, such as the Romulans, the Klingons, the Cardassians, the Breen, etc... A lot of these ships were super old (the Excelsior class which was the base for the Lakota was 100 years old) and retrofitted for war, leaving most of the ship hollow and without crew. The Galaxy class turned into mostly a command ship with vastly empty space inside due to it being discovered that it was more of a "glass cannon". The fact that the Lakota wasn't destroyed by the Defiant means very little. They weren't using quantum torpedoes and neither side really wanted to fight or kill the other. Also, the Lakota is a much larger ship (34 decks vs 4, - 2,350,000 metric tons [pre-refit] vs 355,000 metric tons) with a much bigger "cross-section" to it. If it loses or ties with a small ship like the Defiant in a mid-range battle (like it did), that just emphasises that it really shouldn't be thrown into a greater conflict as the Defiant has no business winning in a mid-range fight against a ship of that size. The Defiant is classified as an escort ship, but it's really a "fast attack" ship, which is designed to punch hard and fast but be difficult to hit in close engagements. Most Starfleet ships before this time period were all designed for midrange fights, which again emphasizes that the Defiant won an engagement outside of its speciality. 100+ year old ship designs being thrown into the Dominion war after hasty refits, regardless if it was the Klingons or the Federation just showed exactly how weak and pathetic these two powers had become as far as their militaries were concerned during this time period.
@@davidprinzing8059 Just because the space frame design is 100 years. I loathe the excelsior design, i think its hideous. However, its durable and easy to construct. The k'tinga class klingon ship is just as old as the refit constitution. The federation problem, they stopped up grading their ships during the lost era, other than creature comforts. And the borg didn't wake them up. So they scrambled to try and meet the dominion threat and were behind the 8 ball. Mass of the space craft is a small part of space battle equation. Smaller doesn't mean inherently weaker. If both ships produce comparable power, and have equal shield power, the smaller ship will be a harder target to hit and its shields will last longer, more power per m3. Unshielded and no armor, the defiant is at a disadvantage because blast to surface area. But defiant was rather heavily armored which they spread to the rest of the class to even the unshielded damage protection. Hell, type X phasers, upgraded torpedo launchers, modern power systems, and modern shields would do wonders on an excelsior or miranda. Sadly, as pretty as the Constitution refit is, it wasn't as durable structurally as Excelsior. Its profile being its weakness.
@@aaronatwood9298 I generally agree with everything you just said (including how ugly the Excelsior class is) however the point was that the Federation was slapping military retrofits onto old ship designs and that showed exactly how desperate they were. After reading your reply, it seems you agree with me on that. Although it's not an absolute 1:1, a larger ship size generally allows for greater power generation assuming that the designers actually attempt to install more power generation into a ship design. That was one of the things regarding the Defiant was that it could punch above its weight class purely on the basis of having an absurd amount of power generation that they packed into a small package. If you retrofit a bunch of ships around the same time period for the same purpose (i.e. win the war), the assumption can be made that they upgraded the power generation systems as much as possible with similar tech. In order to use more powerful phasors or more powerful shields, you are going to need all of the power you can get (right Scotty?). Thus, a significantly larger ship with a warp core and power generation system capable of sustained warp travel for that large of a mass, as well as an adequate deflector array for the size (while at warp) and structural integrity fields and inertial dampeners for all of that weight (also while at warp) must have an exponentially more powerful power generation system which can redirect most of that power towards shields and weapons during an engagement. If you take all of that into account and the Lakota doesn't immediately roflstomp the Defiant in a midrange battle, then I'd daresay that the Lakota has some design elements that simply can't be overcome due to the age of the design (sidenote: the design along with many other 100 year old designs such as the Miranda class were retired shortly afterwards). If that's true, then due to the fact that it's now just an oversized target (like the Galaxy class) it becomes a suicide mission if you place them outside of a support role.
I think this is a case of the Edmonton being close enough to where a good captain and crew stands a fair chance of winning but an average captain and crew would not be enough. The quantum torpedoes are tough little cookies
The Edmonton is SUCH an attractive update to the Excelsior frame. Probably my fav, actually.
For some western Canadians, the northern and southern Albertian rivalry made get to that point in the 24th Century🤣
That was totally AMAZING the USS Edmonton is a really cool looking Starship
Jeepers Captain.. that was a battle.. The Edmonton looks more beefier hull, and looked tougher, again the Lakota's nacelles.. oh gosh.. lol.. I would say both ships have their own something but almost even.. Yes, the ship battle scene of the Dominion war was hard to watch, all those ships kaboomed.. usually I like the ships battle but eeh.. just saying. Love the video Captain!😊🖖
Thanks Steve! I know what you mean, it wasn’t really a happy story was it? As an adult I see it completely differently. I’ll never forget seeing 2 Miranda’s escorting the defiant and being wiped out. Still, they won in the end. Good job there’s always a Klingon around when you need one 😉🖖
@@RetroBadgerGaming Yes, .I was gonna say the same.. glad the Klingons arrived in time.. lol.. 🖖😊
You can really feel the desperation of Starfleet with these old and retrofitted models. Even though it was sending "lambs to the slaughter", they decided to toss a bunch of weapons, shields and armor upgrades at old ships and then deploy them to the various fleets knowing full well that their chances of survival was low.
It totally makes sense how so many ships were unable to stay with the fleet due to malfunctions even with the presence of engineers who can "turn rocks into replicators". That's what happens when you haphazardly shove a whole bunch of new technology into old ship designs and just pray that it all works out well.
And in the end, it's the silence of the lambs. 😉
The lakota and other ships upgraded to that spec were far more durable than what they were previously. The lakota stood up to the defiant and faired about as well. There were many that didn't get the armor and torpedo upgrades.
@@aaronatwood9298
They were far more durable and powerful than they had previously been, but most Federation ships had fallen really far behind as far as military development was concerned when compared to other races. Even single races that weren't part of a 150+ planet alliance like the Federation was were able to keep up to speed with military development, such as the Romulans, the Klingons, the Cardassians, the Breen, etc...
A lot of these ships were super old (the Excelsior class which was the base for the Lakota was 100 years old) and retrofitted for war, leaving most of the ship hollow and without crew. The Galaxy class turned into mostly a command ship with vastly empty space inside due to it being discovered that it was more of a "glass cannon". The fact that the Lakota wasn't destroyed by the Defiant means very little. They weren't using quantum torpedoes and neither side really wanted to fight or kill the other. Also, the Lakota is a much larger ship (34 decks vs 4, - 2,350,000 metric tons [pre-refit] vs 355,000 metric tons) with a much bigger "cross-section" to it. If it loses or ties with a small ship like the Defiant in a mid-range battle (like it did), that just emphasises that it really shouldn't be thrown into a greater conflict as the Defiant has no business winning in a mid-range fight against a ship of that size. The Defiant is classified as an escort ship, but it's really a "fast attack" ship, which is designed to punch hard and fast but be difficult to hit in close engagements. Most Starfleet ships before this time period were all designed for midrange fights, which again emphasizes that the Defiant won an engagement outside of its speciality.
100+ year old ship designs being thrown into the Dominion war after hasty refits, regardless if it was the Klingons or the Federation just showed exactly how weak and pathetic these two powers had become as far as their militaries were concerned during this time period.
@@davidprinzing8059 Just because the space frame design is 100 years. I loathe the excelsior design, i think its hideous. However, its durable and easy to construct. The k'tinga class klingon ship is just as old as the refit constitution. The federation problem, they stopped up grading their ships during the lost era, other than creature comforts. And the borg didn't wake them up. So they scrambled to try and meet the dominion threat and were behind the 8 ball. Mass of the space craft is a small part of space battle equation. Smaller doesn't mean inherently weaker. If both ships produce comparable power, and have equal shield power, the smaller ship will be a harder target to hit and its shields will last longer, more power per m3. Unshielded and no armor, the defiant is at a disadvantage because blast to surface area. But defiant was rather heavily armored which they spread to the rest of the class to even the unshielded damage protection.
Hell, type X phasers, upgraded torpedo launchers, modern power systems, and modern shields would do wonders on an excelsior or miranda. Sadly, as pretty as the Constitution refit is, it wasn't as durable structurally as Excelsior. Its profile being its weakness.
@@aaronatwood9298 I generally agree with everything you just said (including how ugly the Excelsior class is) however the point was that the Federation was slapping military retrofits onto old ship designs and that showed exactly how desperate they were. After reading your reply, it seems you agree with me on that.
Although it's not an absolute 1:1, a larger ship size generally allows for greater power generation assuming that the designers actually attempt to install more power generation into a ship design. That was one of the things regarding the Defiant was that it could punch above its weight class purely on the basis of having an absurd amount of power generation that they packed into a small package. If you retrofit a bunch of ships around the same time period for the same purpose (i.e. win the war), the assumption can be made that they upgraded the power generation systems as much as possible with similar tech. In order to use more powerful phasors or more powerful shields, you are going to need all of the power you can get (right Scotty?). Thus, a significantly larger ship with a warp core and power generation system capable of sustained warp travel for that large of a mass, as well as an adequate deflector array for the size (while at warp) and structural integrity fields and inertial dampeners for all of that weight (also while at warp) must have an exponentially more powerful power generation system which can redirect most of that power towards shields and weapons during an engagement.
If you take all of that into account and the Lakota doesn't immediately roflstomp the Defiant in a midrange battle, then I'd daresay that the Lakota has some design elements that simply can't be overcome due to the age of the design (sidenote: the design along with many other 100 year old designs such as the Miranda class were retired shortly afterwards). If that's true, then due to the fact that it's now just an oversized target (like the Galaxy class) it becomes a suicide mission if you place them outside of a support role.
Fast turning is key i guess... nicely done Lakota!!!! ty for the video and LLAP!
Lakota is like a lizard who ditches their tail when in danger. Alas, unlike the lizard's tail, warp nacelles don't grow back on their own. 😛
Your hull damage on the Edmonton repaired itself...interesting...
I think this is a case of the Edmonton being close enough to where a good captain and crew stands a fair chance of winning but an average captain and crew would not be enough. The quantum torpedoes are tough little cookies
That was awesome to see saucer separation for the Lakota. I agree the Lakota edges the Edmonton slightly.
Like this ship!!!
NX-01 VS 5 RUNABOUTS!!!!
I’ve added your battle to the list 🖖
@@RetroBadgerGaming thank you!
Nice ship, Though I like the dtails more on the lakota
Long live the Lakota ❤
1:06 Admiral Pressman is in the brig. Do you wish to visit him?
Yes. I'll smuggle in a personal phase cloaking device in a cake.
better a transporter
@deepdivedylan this chap named Q won’t stop moaning about being human. Although he keeps shouting ‘Microbrain’ at an angry Klingon 🖖
slow turning?
I think I'm hearing things. Every time you say "Dominion", it sounds like you're saying "Dominium".