167 - Gary Taubes: Bad science and challenging the conventional wisdom of obesity
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- Опубликовано: 5 июн 2024
- Gary Taubes is an investigative science and health journalist and a best-selling author. In this podcast, Gary explains how he developed a healthy skepticism for science as he was transitioning from being a physics major to beginning as a science journalist. He talks about how he was particularly drawn to sussing out “pathologic science,” telling the stories behind his books on the discovery of the W and Z bosons and cold fusion, emphasizing the need for researchers to perform a thorough background analysis. Gary then describes how his work came to focus on public health, nutrition, and obesity. He provides a great historic overview of obesity research and provides his explanation for why the conventional wisdom today is incorrect.
We discuss:
00:00:00 - Intro
00:00:10 - Gary’s background in science and journalism, and developing a healthy skepticism for science;
00:08:27 - Gary’s boxing experience, and the challenge of appreciating behavioral risk;
00:18:55 - How Gary developed his writing skills, and what the best science writers do well;
00:29:53 - Example of how science can go wrong, and the story behind Gary’s first book, Nobel Dreams;
00:43:22 - Theoretical vs. experimental physicists: The important differentiation and the relationship between the two;
00:48:52 - Pathological science: research tainted by unconscious bias or subjective effects;
01:00:39 - Reflecting on the aftermath of writing Nobel Dreams and the legacy of Carlo Rubbia;
01:05:39 - Scientific fraud: The story of the cold fusion experiments at Georgia Tech and the subject of Gary’s book, Bad Science;
01:24:45 - Problems with epidemiology, history of the scientific method, and the conflict of public health science;
01:46:51 - Gary’s first foray into the bad science of nutrition;
01:58:04 - Research implicating insulin’s role in obesity, and the story behind what led to Gary’s book, Good Calories, Bad Calories;
02:10:00 - The history of obesity research, dietary fat, and fat metabolism;
02:21:47 - The evolving understanding of the role of fat metabolism in obesity and weight gain;
02:32:37 - Mutant mice experiments giving way to competing theories about obesity;
02:38:30 - How Gary thinks about the findings that do not support his alternative hypothesis about obesity;
02:45:19 - Challenges with addressing the obesity and diabetes epidemics, palatability and convenience of food, and other hypotheses;
02:57:30 - Challenging the energy balance hypothesis, and the difficulty of doing good nutrition studies;
Show notes page: peterattiamd.com/garytaubes/
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About:
The Peter Attia Drive is a weekly, ultra-deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing health, longevity, critical thinking…and a few other things. With over 30 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including fasting, ketosis, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter is a physician focusing on the applied science of longevity. His practice deals extensively with nutritional interventions, exercise physiology, sleep physiology, emotional and mental health, and pharmacology to increase lifespan (delay the onset of chronic disease), while simultaneously improving healthspan (quality of life).
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In this episode we discuss:
00:00:00 - Intro
00:00:10 - Gary’s background in science and journalism, and developing a healthy skepticism for science
00:08:27 - Gary’s boxing experience, and the challenge of appreciating behavioral risk
00:18:55 - How Gary developed his writing skills, and what the best science writers do well
00:29:53 - Example of how science can go wrong, and the story behind Gary’s first book, Nobel Dreams
00:43:22 - Theoretical vs. experimental physicists: The important differentiation and the relationship between the two
00:48:52 - Pathological science: research tainted by unconscious bias or subjective effects
01:00:39 - Reflecting on the aftermath of writing Nobel Dreams and the legacy of Carlo Rubbia
01:05:39 - Scientific fraud: The story of the cold fusion experiments at Georgia Tech and the subject of Gary’s book, Bad Science
01:24:45 - Problems with epidemiology, history of the scientific method, and the conflict of public health science
01:46:51 - Gary’s first foray into the bad science of nutrition
01:58:04 - Research implicating insulin’s role in obesity, and the story behind what led to Gary’s book, Good Calories, Bad Calories
02:10:00 - The history of obesity research, dietary fat, and fat metabolism
02:21:47 - The evolving understanding of the role of fat metabolism in obesity and weight gain
02:32:37 - Mutant mice experiments giving way to competing theories about obesity
02:38:30 - How Gary thinks about the findings that do not support his alternative hypothesis about obesity
02:45:19 - Challenges with addressing the obesity and diabetes epidemics, palatability and convenience of food, and other hypotheses
02:57:30 - Challenging the energy balance hypothesis, and the difficulty of doing good nutrition studies
This helps. Thanks!
Thank you for this and all you do Dr Attia.
Camera angles on point
Peter Attia asks the best questions. Displays such clear ‘critical thinking’. How refreshing.
Oh gosh - did I applaud critical thinking - hey how would I know I got my nutrition degree over 50yrs ago! That slur on the profession maybe not applicable in UK. Needs retraction.
Twelve years ago my husband had 3 stokes and we found out he was diabetic. I had been starving myself obese on 1200 low fat, high fibre calories a day, so had no problem putting him on the diet they gave me for him.
For every 3 weeks, for 8 months both he and his bloodwork were worse. That is when I watched a lecture and read Good Calories/Bad Calories. Used the British diet in the Prologue.
The next bloodwork showed improvement. Kept getting better. Several months later a stranger understood him. I went from size 18 to 6/8.
Gary Taubes is a hero. Way better than an astronaut.
That's a wonderful testimonial.
Incredible that you had the courage to change both your lives in the face of bad dogma Which British diet in the prologue did you use?
That’s amazing😮
Out of interest, what did your weight get up to on 1200 calories/day?
Thank you for allowing the masses to observe the brilliance of "superb critical thinking and questioning" the science as Gary Taubes and Peter Attia question for the long-term benefit of future generations. I never knew the background of Gary Taubes in science & physics. In my career I rarely saw obesity in Asia during the mid-'90s and within 10 years it was more common. My daughter, an excellent internal medicine and obesity physician in Pasadena, California introduced me to both of you years ago. Thank you for expanding consciousness. Please keep questioning, writing and sharing. "The application of the current model is failing."
I’m im Asia as I comment, looking at an obese little noy sat in a shopping cart. His chubby little arms rest on his side fat like a bodybuilder with lats, as he nurses on a can of sugar drink his mom gave him. Obese Asians were as rare as obese Americans were in the 70’s.
“The application of the current model is failing.” Brilliant!
So is the application of any diet/model, really. Because there is no hack to get around human brain survival adaptations. Even most medications and surgeries reach plateau/regain phase.
The issue is, if we continue to allow such horrible science practices, even if we have the proper diet, how would we know with all the noise?
I have my favorite hypothesis, possibly a theory, but it still needs more data. I'm convinced, but it has to convince the biased.
My n = 1 is going good near 5 years now.
@@Unsensitive Most horrible science practice was NuSi 🤣
@@erastvandoren just reading their strategy.. False dichotomy. so much bias just there.
A good question I would love to see addressed is that if fats are so bad (from mainstream doctors) then WHY does the ketogenic or Modified Atkins Diet help lesson to eliminate seizures in people with epilepsy? My daughter has had epilepsy since age 7 (she will be 50 this year) and now is seizure free, due to getting adequate fat, which her doctor from India seems to find it hard to back 100% as he is a vegetarian. I'm her care giver as she is mildly mentally challenged, and I'm careful with her diet. She likes salads but simple carbs are out and she has a lot of animal protein as well as whole coconut milk, heavy cream, and butter. From what I've read, the low carb, high fat diets stop more seizures then medicines with all of the side effects associated with seizure medicine.
I'd be very interested in hearing more about the Randall Effect.
Thank-you for this interview!
Gary Taubes was my first introduction into going full keto, this was back in 2013. greta book, fantastic knowledge and great person Gary
In response to the question, “How do we make people care about this subject”.
People already do care about being fat and their body composition. This is why we have gyms scattered everywhere across the United States. People inherently want to look appealing.
Currently their is a ground swell, grassroots movement of people avoiding carbohydrates and eating only meat. This movement has been created by results. One person tries the experiment and then ten or more people see the results and then try this themselves.
There will always be those people who are like drug addicts who want to keep eating their delicious carbohydrates for pleasure. But as time marches on and more people get thin and muscular just by changing their diet, then the world of nutrition will quickly change.
Thank you Gary Taubes!!! I read you book “Good Calories, Bad Calories. That book changed everything for myself and legions of others.
It has taken 15 years for the grip of the science and medical community brainwashing operation to be broken. But as a snow ball rolling and growing in size. We are quickly approaching a time when the lies will be peeled away and people will realize they been lied to all this time.
Peter: you were much better here at listening; and pausing; well done. It is an extraordinary skill; to ask as finely parsed a question as possible; with as few words as possible; then fall silent; silent; silent and let the person being interviewed have the space and time to reflect; and answer. For so many of those who interview; they seem to me to interrupt far too much; surely let the person who is being interviewed; have the space and time to tell their story. Cherish the silence after a brief question is asked; best wishes
He knows better than to interrupt Peter. There are videos of him talking over interviewers. 🤣
Interviewers want the floor and spotlight far too often. Peter doesn’t need the ego squeeze.
Soooo interesting! Thank you Gary Taubes for you interest and work.
I'm 58 and have yoyo'd dieted my whole life listening and trying everything that came up.
I've lost over 90 lbs so far since November using LCHF and intermittent fasting. I've read Dr Fung's Obesity Code and it just makes so much sense to me. Now I understand why!! Thank you for this interview. Watching these keeps me motivated. You two are brilliant! Many thanks 💞
Thank you Peter for this incredible interview. I think Gary is one of the top science journalists. His book, Good Calories, Bad Calories, started my journey into nutrition and health.
Gary’s GCBC is one of the most enlightening books I ever read; it has continued to influence my thinking about food and science for years.
Dr. Peter has taught me essentially how to think about health and step away from the clutter of information. He should be 10X more popular!
Too bad he has become a statin apologist. He is an internet talking head and is apparently losing the game.
Peter’s too hip for the crowd
I'm so thankful for your podcast Dr. Attia. Thanks for having Gary on!
The story of Carlo Rubbia is crazy.
I run into plenty of people lacking awareness, but his seems to be such a pathological level it still surprises me.
Excellent! Fascinating Gary Taubes! Hope he makes enough money so he can continue the battle!
Buy all of Mr Taubes books!
Mr Taubes Thank you so much ! You saved my life.
I am relieved to be able to ask my husband to watch one of my favorite RUclips channels due entirely the introduction of this video. This was an utterly fascinating interview from the outset. Thank you, Dr. Attia, for allowing Mr. Taubes the opportunity shares his views, his investigative journalism and factual information. It put me into the “fly on the wall” perspective as your interview style is enviable. You definitely develop a rapport as you take the time to put them at ease. Your gentle teasing to reassure Mr. Taubes was appreciated. What an incredible conversation regarding risk, from discussing boxing to dietary change, and helping your audience (those willing to listen) become mindful of the direct link between a proper human diet and the human body’s longevity. ‘Speaking as a late-stage cancer patient (in full remission for the 4th year) and pre-diabetic, I wish I had found the Low Carb community sooner, but like with anything else, you don’t appreciate what you have until it’s gone…or threatened.
I love these long thoughtful conversations. Thank you.
They are awesome. I’ve started listening to only video and podcasts longer than an hour. Some of the stuff out there about health that try to explain a whole process in the body in 5 minutes definitely are not the way to go to broaden your horizons on the way to think about food and/or health.
Phatastic episode! Taubes comes out in all its colourful facets. The guy has so much more up his sleeve than the unfortunately too often one-dimensional "friend-foe" thinking of many food Taliban allows. And what a great interview job from Peter! It was a pleasure for me as a listener, how Peter gives the life and thinking of Taubes a wide space. Peter is becoming more and more an insightful and at the same time level-headed voice in the discussion about healthy nutrition, which has unfortunately become a trench warfare.
very good comments 🤠
food Taliban - LOL!!!
As others have said, his work (NYT magazine article) changed my life almost 20 years ago.
lol
So lucky that you paid attention back then. Only in the past few years have I started to understand how messed up nutrition guidelines really are and why.
Gary Taube is a hero, imo. I recommend "Why we Get Fat and What to do About It" to everybody. I read it about ten years ago and the 20 lbs I was trying to lose for my entire life (decades) fell off because I did what he said to do (eat meat and any green leafy vegetables. No sugar, pasta, or rice- the things that are supposedly not the problem. Light cream, not milk, in coffee.) It took a month. I couldn't believe it. Everyone is so brainwashed by conventional nutritional advice they think I'm lying.
Good point. I haven’t read Gary’s book you mention but have read “Case Against Sugar”.
Based on my experience years ago with Atkins, I found that the hardest thing was that while I could “eat as much steak and hamburger” as I wanted…without bun, ketchup, potatoes…I more or less lost interest in eating much meat…and that leaves “leafy vegetables”. It’s just not that great without everything else if you are habituated to eating “palatable” food…even if you’ve never set foot in a fast food restaurant and all your meals for the past 10 years have been prepared by a 4-star Michelin chef.
I am not an 18th century Comanche eating buffalo morning noon and night, and I belonged to a large family that eats prepared meals together every day.
My neighbor used to joke with me that he thought that when you “did Atkins” it was simply impossible to actually “eat a lot of meat” and that was how calorie reduction was achieved. A typical burger with no add-ins was like eating cardboard.
Recent (last3 months) removal of all sugar, deserts, soft drinks and processed food from my diet has nevertheless been a truly sustainable game-changer. I am 68.
An interview of such depth, intelligence, engagement and brilliance is indeed rare...a definite standing ovation for both Messrs. Taubes and Attia.
I can't believe this team-up is finally happening. Best Monday ever.
We cannot get progress on the LCHF acceptance by the health agencies because the processed food industry, sugar, confectionery, breakfast etc are perhaps 100’s of billions and millions of jobs. This is like covid where after lockdowns there is an acceptance that livelihood vs life has an economic ratio that can be traded. In this case carbs and sugar are too large in economic terms. The treatment of their consequence adds another 100 billion. So LCHF is a pure personal choice. So who ever listens and reads Gary and your channel can have better healthcare
Carbs & sugar= too big to fail
Gary is the OG.
So informative. Thank you to you both.
Such an important discussion of what makes good science. Thank you!
I came for the discussion about obesity but ended up fascinated by the whole three-plus hours. Thanks.
Another great show!
Way better as video than audio. I might have to watch this one
💚🏜️
Love any interview with Gary
Love listening to Gary Taubes...amazing mind.
It makes me want to read his books all over again.
Amazing talk! Thanks for sharing!!!!
this was an amazing interview. you are both such great speakers
Almost two hours in and loving this.
Thank you Peter, for this interview. I utterly enjoyed every minute of the 193 minutes. Have always been interested to know the full story on Gary's background and what makes him tick.
Boy oh boy. I could listen to Taubes for hours. “Why we get fat” was an incredible read. This interview is making me want to re read it. He’s so humble - talking about that wrongheaded scientist, then saying: btw he’s over 100 so 🤷♀️. I think when we hear someone being honest, we listen more closely… now I have to go see what his latest book is… I have two, should have more… thank you!
Peter, one day soon I hope you'll have Andrew Huberman on the podcast-that would be fantastic. According to his research, your assumption that your response to Dorritos is CNS-driven is correct. In our gut, we have neurons that, via the vagus nerve, communicate to the brain what we are eating in real time. He explains how the data have shown we will eat until our brain senses a particular profile of amino acids required. Additionally, if the neurons in our gut sense sweet foods, even if you numbed the taste buds and the person couldn't taste sweet, they would still crave more because of the neurons in the gut which relay the information to the brain (this is something Rick Johnson also touched on but didn't link it to the neurons in our gut fact).
BS
Peter Attia has had Andrew Huberman on now multiple times.
Phenomenal interview!
Wow, what a talk.
Love this discussion/analysis 🙏
Excellent geek out. TYVM!
Thank you very much to both of you for the good work you've done and going through this long interview/podcast. I've learned a lot from those two critical thinkers in the past and respect them both. Nevertheless it is fun thinking that suddenly Gary got some epiphany when at 02:31:24 - Peter ask him about the increase level of insulin and at 02:32:12 Gary start to realize: "Why I did not think about it earlier?"
We were experimenting on ourselves in Uk with the Atkins regime back in the 1970s. Isn,t it wonderful how so many folk now getting fascinated by what we stuff down our gullets! Just remember what killed Atkinson! ( although that is not statistical significant - any more than Gary T watching to see if he gets a heart attack ) Studying multi factorial disease is complicated! The role, influence & power of food industry the biggest problem in a world of industrial food. The role of politics in this is the discussion that,s needed. Who stops the influx of high sucrose corn syrup and so much more? Who influences the availability, affordability of veg, fruit, whole grains unprocessed foods plus the skills to prepare it? Just asking. It needs both ‘personal responsibility’ but also policy to redirect the supply chain and start to cultivate that necessary culture change…..Great that schools now digging up the ground and planting and growing fruit and veg!
Appreciated this podcast and both men, but was curious about two omissions:
- they referenced NuSi a few times, but only briefly and tangentially. Given they were founding members and worked together for several years on it, I would have appreciated a little more air time on their experience together on the endeavor - including the controversial components
- an acknowledgment by Peter of Gary’s huge influence over the last 20 years on practicing doctors, clinicians, dieticians, academics, et al on researching and putting into practice the concepts and advantages of LCHF/Keto at an incredibly broad level and acceptance rate. That was Taubes’ goal with GCBC book, and it has worked.
Be well all.
Check the interview with Taubes and DietDoctor. You can find the answer there..interested talk.
This is the link ruclips.net/video/mTPFyJLiI6k/видео.html
I never thought I'd be taking nutrition advice from Owen Wilson.
LOL
His book GCBC was fabulous, I am an experimental biologist and was very impressed. However his later books are not as solid scientifically.
The quantum physics and the leed up to biophysics was most enlightening. Better yet, the background of Gary's career made me think about the future of science. This interview will serve as an important curriculum component for undergraduate students in science and medicine.
Epidemiologists are self interested to push for findings so that they remain relevant to keep their jobs. This tendency mutates to announcements of wonderful discoveries. But whatever they could ever find can only ever be a starting point to investigate possible causalities , they can NEVER be an end in themselves.
Outstanding interview! Gary and Peter - the dynamic duo
After watching Gary debate Stephan Guyenet on Joe Rogan, I would love to hear Gary steel-man the points made against the carb-insulin model.
I was totally in Gary’s corner for that one. It was frustrating and exciting at the same time to hear the debate. The frustration came from Stephan not really acknowledging that all people don’t process food the same way. Most of us cannot handle the way carbs are processed. I have my own theories on this (based on my N=1 study of myself). I do very poorly digestively speaking and fat-storing wise with any carbohydrate made into flour. Fiber is important but some need it in much smaller amounts. Or I should say some recover quickly from it. Is it necessary? I think so for some. As long as it comes from a whole food. Not sure if I’m making sense here I could go on and on but I won’t. Lol. Food health is my favorite topic.
Two scientists a physicist and one with an engineering and Mathematics degrees who did cancer research and surgery.
Trying to look at and analyze the problem using genuine scientific method- presenting hypothesis alternative hypothesis and criticizing them with the goal to get to the truth.
It's been a long time, graduate school, since I have heard this much in depth scientific argument.
Gary presented detail I did not know about the cold fusion story.
Such an excellent discussion. Thank you to you both.
This is absolutely fascinating. I've been waiting for something really juicy and intelligent to listen to while I do the drudgery of cleaning the immensity of my Venetian blinds -- only because they really need it -- and NOW I HAVE IT! : )
That brings up the images - Venetian blinds and my grandparents, both sides of my family homes back in the 1940s and 50s. Not the mini Venetian blinds of the 80's and 90's.
Both a pain to clean.
@@brucehutch5419 Don't I know it! : ) However, on some windows they really are the best treatment.
Another great contribution to logic and scientific research fundamentals
Well done, Peter. Great content and cogency.
Superb. Thank you for this thoughtful discussion about a wide range of science topics. I particularly appreciated the power lines/poverty suggestion.
Two of my favorite nutritional gurus! So glad I’m up at 4:45 in the morning to see this video drop.
He's a charlatan, not a guru.
Gary, I care. A lifetime of fighting obesity, years of reading Peter. I'll never forget the picture of Peter on the beach in Hawaii after one of his epic swims with his pregnant wife. How could this guy have a belly? What hope would there be for a fat hobby triathlete such as I? I slog on avoiding carbs like poison. Thank you both for what you do!
Fat is the poison. 80:10:10 from whole-food plant-based the solution. Search for Walter Kempner, Nathan Pritikin, Dean Ornish, John McDougall, Neal Barnard...
@@erastvandoren The folks you listed are dangerous quacks. A plant based diet in all but a few places is only possible due to modern transportation. To think someone would have the option of eating a buffalo or chewing on a root after it has been prepared for hours if not days, and choosing the root is dilutional. It does take all ideas to make the world go 'round though.
@@briancorbin6495 The biggest quack is Gary, people I listed are scientists.
Good thing for the rest of us, there aren’t only two choices of diet patterns. These dogmatic imbeciles on both sides argue over nonsense while eating a balanced omnivorous diet is far better nutritiously and practically.
@@michaelcarter8620 of course you can. But you still should reduce fats and animal products. Not the opposite, as Gary suggests.
Great pod - thank you! Have read Taub's books but have also read "Fiber Fueled: The Plant-Based Gut Health Program for Losing Weight, Restoring Your Health, and Optimizing Your Microbiome" by Will Bulsiewicz. The insulin angle completely ignores the role the microbiome plays in obesity. Would love to hear a thoughtful discussion this topic.
Taubes has admitted he’ll never change his mind on the Carbohydrate-Insulin model of obesity, even if presented with overwhelming evidence to the contrary-which, by the way, to date he has been. There are dozens of studies showing when calories and protein are equated that there is virtually no difference in benefit to a low-carb or low-fat diet. When a physicist does not ascribe to the basic tenets of physics, you can deduce their information/opinion is sus.
It’s interesting, For someone like me, who tried my damnedest the conventional way for the best part of a lifetime and failed time after time …. And then tried the way Gary suggests, and succeeded, effortlessly, first time. - I couldn’t care less whether “officialdom” wants to validate my efforts and results or not. I suppose for Gary, getting that closure on almost a life’s work is probably important, but I think when he looks back on his life, he should think about the millions (?) like me who’s lives have been improved dramatically, perhaps even saved by his questions and books, rather than worrying about those hell bent on telling him he is wrong!
Wow!!!
Long but so interesting
Grabs popcorn. Dis Gon b good
Taubes is intelligent enough to not try to make himself sound intelligent thus alienating 99% of the audience. I can see how his writing would be much more palatable to the lay audience.
Gary, please do an article on the Sinclair Resveratrol debacle
Wow. I love this episode. Show me the experiment lol. I’d love to be a specimen. I have done cyclical keto for years, carnivore, and Mediterranean. I was never able to do vegetarian or vegan :/
A fascinating talk, but staring at the great Mr Taubes face for three hours... the mind wondered. Is that a smoldering anger, or is that just me. Whatever it was fascinating, all power to him.
He never intended to have this be his career. But his truth is so profound and so rejected by the mainstream that he is like sysiphus tasked with a seemingly neverending task. Justified anger if it is there.
It has to be frustrating to be basically stonewalled by the elites of supposed science and nutrition, on a subject where your research has given you great cause to believe the current model is critically flawed. As an academic mind, it is probably even worse. To be finding information that at the minimum suggests we need to go back to basics and dump ideology , and at the maximum suggest more sinister reasons, yet you have other supposed academics not interested to even consider.
Meanwhile, these things aren't without costs. People are sick and dying, our current models of understanding metabolic syndromes and treatment of them is provably failed. Yet guys like Taubes still get treated as pariahs for suggesting something isn't right here.
Awesome interview, unfortunately bad science is the root of a lot of modern problems.
Bad science and the media who push it... for fun & profit.
@@billytheweasel and the corporations who fund, lobby, and promote the bad science behaviors.
I haven't listened to this podcast yet so don't know if they discuss it, but the most profitable prescription drugs in history, statins, are vastly overprescribed based on bad science.
@@Don-md6wn statin story analogy.
We have a group of delivery drivers. They deliver food and life saving medical supplies to a city.
Sadly, some of the drivers are intoxicated drivers.. and crash every now and again.
Mr. Statin comes along and starts firing all the drivers randomly, but not hiring more.
This breaks the supply chain. People starve.. and die without their needed medical supplies.
Mr. Doctor sees a reduction in accidents, plus he gets paid by Mr. Statin, so he fully supports the practices of Mr. Statin, ignoring all the people dying from lack of food and proper medical supplies.
A few fringe people suggest the root cause being intoxicated drivers, and to just not let them drink before their routes, but these people are ignored by society.. It's just to obvious all the delivery drivers are the issue, not the intoxicated drivers.
@@Unsensitive Symptom vs Source. Treat the cut or treat the patient?
Listening to the beginning of this interview it sounded like they barely know each other .."I cant remember last time I saw you" etc...and yet the both set up a non profit in 2012 Nusi (funded largely by the Arnold Foundation) to research obesity ...and over the next 4 to 5 years they were both paid handsomely.
According to public records, Attia received an average of $425,000 per year for four years, including $727,754 in 2015 (the year he resigned), for a grand total of $1.7 million. Taubes received an average of $117,000 per year for five years, netting $586 thousand.
Wait...what?! THREE HOURS of Gary Taubes. 😍
at 27:00 he mentions Ghost Map by "Steven Levy" did he misspeak.... is it Steven Johnson? Can't find the title by Steven Levy.
Did anyone catch the titles of books or authors discussed in the first thirty minutes of interview?
USDA NIFA is now addressing "nutrition security" but without acknowledging their role in the obesity/type 2 diabetes epidemic with their dietary guidelines. I'm debating sending the new NIFA director a few links to podcasts and youtube videos and asking about a response. Must do so fairly anonymously, I think, given my employment at a land-grant institution.
"if we're going to get practical here Peter then we're not going to make any progress whatsover" 2:47:15
cool
I was gripped all the way through.
Uncovering the truth when grants, revenue & your mortgage exists is incompatible with any scientific question will be negated. Creating more Noise assumes the signal will die.
At 27:22 Does gary mean Steven Johnson instead of steven levy . The author of the ghost map?
LOL…we have to go back to chasing buffalo around the neighborhood for all our meals!
No more restaurants, supermarkets 4-star Michelin chefs, date night at the new Thai restaurant, bagel Fridays!
1:36:00. The Nurses' Health Study, the most famous epidemiological study in America, never looked at household incomes.
Holy shit I had no idea how generally well-rounded Taubes is.
Who he said 27:20 wrote The Ghost Map?…but what a fantastic guy!
There's a book, The Ghost Map, by Steven Johnson about the cholera outbreak in London and how a Dr. John Snow solved it and how this changed the way we do science. I think perhaps Gary just miss-spoke as this seems to be the book he was talking about.
It’s an excellent book, highly recommend
Who is the author of
"The Ghost Map?" Taubes said it was Steven Levy. Wasn't it written by Sreven Johnson?
The Ghost Map, Steven Johnson, not Levy.
I questioned this mistake earlier today. Great...
Who was the Atlantic writer, Henry(?) he spoke of? .,
I recall his book Why We Get Fat. Laurie Garrett was good in writing The Coming Plague. Then she got Trump Derangement Syndrome which did not help her IMO. Oliver Sacks, Glick, Nicholas Wade...
Gary is a bad ass! He can smell BS from a mile away. And, I love his deadpan delivery.
the discussion appears to be binary - as if energy balance and metabolic/endocrine models of obesity are mutually exclusive. Why must they be? Can one posit that both models can interact synergistically - can someone on a low carb/low sugar diet become/stay obese simply because of energy imbalance (more cal intake than burned)? Can someone on a trad western diet with approx energy balance still gain weight? Which model provides the easiest pathway towards healthy living (or is it a combination of both - approx energy balance + good blood insulin management)? I don't hear Gary talk about apoB and its apparently linear relationship with ASCVD (which is true for most people who promote keto etc.). Even if someone sees great improvement from a keto diet high in sat fats, should they not be monitoring apoB to make sure they are not creating a vascular time-bomb?
Does Gary’s lower right jaw in the parotid gland area look swollen or is it just the angle?
Injections or exceptional genetics for jaw development.
How does Taubes reconcile his dismissal of the energy balance model and the inviolability of the first law of thermodynamics? It seems to me that he's really just arguing for one of many physiological issues that give some people difficulty controlling their energy balance in the modern food and activity environment.
Where does the first law of thermodynamics mention weight?
@@jamest1103 Fat and protein are energy stores. The mass of body fat and protein is directly associated with its chemical energy. Nine and four kcal per gram respectively. A gain or loss of energy of either will be directly reflected in the mass retained or expended.
@jaymckoskey25 when you convert from energy to calories to (body)weight are you assuming calories are equal?
@@jamest1103 I'm not sure I understand the question and I'm not the best person to answer but in terms of food energy consumption broadly the form of the calories is very important and all calories are definitely not created equal. In terms of the bland mathematics of thermodynamics energy is energy - 1 kcal is ~4.2 kilojoules.
You can't violate the first law of thermodynamics, simple enough, but its application to physiology, nutrition and body composition is very complicated and nuanced. That's why there's so much for all these videos on fitness to talk about.
@jaymckoskey25 I'm just pointing out the first law of thermodynamics doesn't mention weight, and calories not being equal (such as a falling insulin level causing hunger) means you can't convert from calories to energy to body weight.
Yes Peter, ...pause....., pause....when you interrupt, make it like ice skating...finely coordinating with the interviewee.
Doing well.
I got really excited. Finally, once and for all I thought I'd get definitive, concrete answers. I was disappointed. Garry seemed to flounder at the slightest challenge.
And Attia didn't challenge him. He was in many ways too respectful.
Hyperdipsia or Polydipsia
Polydipsia……extreme thirst 👍
Do uploads get any better than this, frankly no. An enjoyable 3+ hours of hearing Gary T and Peter A in conversation.
Thx. So, I went low carb, dropped a1c from 9.0 to 5.5 and
lost 65 lbs. How did the carb insulin model fail again? Lol. It didn't fail for me.
But was it the low carb or the weight loss that caused your lowered A1C? If you had lost the weight implementing a different diet, do you think you would have similar results? I get that the diet is appealing to many because it can help them become more compliant with diet and weight loss, however, when you cut out the processed, high sugar and fatty foods, you’re cutting calories. Ppl on this diet begin to eat healthier in general. So, it’s not necessarily the LC diet, but the healthier diet in general that is aiding the weight loss.
@@michellerstewart7 clearly the low carb. The weight loss just followed. Thx.
Maybe Dr. Attia needs a good corn tortilla or a slice of well-made wheat bread to eat during his feeding period? I can't imagine being that triggered by doritos, which are way too salty tasting and have a horrible fake cheese taste. Your mileage may differ...
Two of my favorite "go-to" people wrt optimal health.
Glad Taubs was mid-pack in astro physics because he's since had a big positive effect on the world.
Why does Gary use a filter? He doesn't strike me as particularly vain.
I lost 4 stone in 2015 after watching Gary on you tube been lean ever since..... Carbs suck 2015-present observational study:-)
1:05:00 Disproving "Cold Fusion" Is like disproving "I can't Believe It's not Butter" Isn't butter. It isn't fusion, but is something. So, you are missing the point. Gary should follow up on this story and see what Nasa and others have said about this in the decades since.