The grew up with malignant narcissistic, abuse, and thought I was tough. The covert narcissist is a creature I didn’t know existed, and the covert mental and emotional abuse (slow boil) over seven year, crippled me not just emotionally, but physically by triggering sever fibromyalgia, flash backs, and cptsd symptoms, that after five years of no contact, I’m STILL working on healing.
I can relate to your comment. I'm in the same situation. Not sure if you believe in God, but I will pray for you as you continue on your healing journey 💖🙏
I grew up with a fragile narcissist mother. I didn’t get away until late in life. She’s turned family against family, wreaked havoc in my life and others. They steal your joy, trust, health, and faith in humanity.
My Dad was a grandiose narcissist/psychopath , my Mum covert- either way there was a lot of egg shell walking. That’s why I practically lived in the garden, just came home to sleep! My covert Mum taught me to take offence and feel rejected by everyone. My father taught me terror and how to feel unsafe.
Please study the covert narcissist who work in the charity sector. I truly believe there is a network of them. The sector is overlooked under the guise of "charity" but it is the most undiverse and unequal sector
My cousin had a grandiose father and everyone felt sorry for her and made allowances when she was nasty (largely to me, because she was jealous that my mother was everyone's favourite). But guess what? My mother is covert. I mean, she could write the instruction manual for all coverts! I've suffered in silence and isolation for 68 years so far. No understanding, no sympathy... I can't even tell anyone the truth about her or what my life has been like. My husband finally saw the real her after 48 years. He still doubts it regularly. But finally I have validation and an ally. I think coverts are definitely worse. The loneliness is a killer.
Thank you for covering this. I’ve been through hell and back, and then again after being hoovered back a couple times by that snake and his vampire father. I wish emotional dis regulation, and the cognitive dissonance this abuse creates, on no one. Cptsd is like living in hell, but it’s not “all in your head”, and you do feel the burning and agony of the slow boil they wanted to witness you feel
After 23yrs with a vulnerable/ covert narc for me it's their desire to witness to that "slow boil" to demise that this spirit lusts after that's so wickedly evil and depraved to comprehend. And when it happened I was "in love" with this spirit.
I've struggled with being able to tell if I live with a narcissist or not. But I think I am. 1. I often walk on egg shells 2. I'm isolated from friends and family and no one feels comfortable visiting 3. Her issues are my issue and my issues are my issues 4. Double standards
🎯 In my experience with growing up with, imo & not diagnosed, a covert narcissist mother, I 100% agree with you that they are the most dangerous. She was nasty, abusive, cold/unloving at home but presented herself (and us kids bc we were dressed well, fed appropriately, etc) to the outside world as a friendly, helpful, caring person, a good mother ('See,look at my children how clean, well fed & dressed they are'!) The 'vibe' at home was , I'd describe as, a cold war. The high level of tension was always there. Insidious.A cold fury barely concealed ready to erupt at any time. I didn’t realise I carried an anxious, churning feeling in the pit of my stomach all my life until many years later after spending some time in a 12 step group (ironicly for families & friends of alcoholics as my father was an alcoholic although non-violent, high functioning & actually mostly kind & patient with us kids. Turns out he was the least of my problems!), I noticed one day it wasn't there! I didn’t even know I'd been abused until a psychiatrist I saw (after a mental breakdown- dx panic disorder, major depression, ptsd) said, "That's child abuse" after I'd relayed some of my childhood memories. She wouldn't allow a baby, a toddler, a little girl to show any emotion. I had to be a robot."Children should be seen and not heard" She destroyed my life.
i'm reasonably sure my mom was a covert narc, maybe a mild psychopath. over and over, she told a story about how her mom had to rescue a kitten she'd thrown i the rain barrel to "see if it could swim" when she was 4. she was telling that story at family gatherings into her '70's and had no awareness of people including her favourite/younger sister cringing. she saw it as a cute story and giggled retelling it. she assaulted me when i was 6 or 7, in a frustrated rage and in her late 70's still insisted i deserved it and she wasn't sorry at all. the mental abuse and verbal cruelty was up a level from the physical though. i eventually brpoke down when i was 7 or 8 and asked if i was adopted because she claimed so often i was switched with a hutterite's child in the hospital and how i was so ugly when i was born they didn't believe i was theirs, ETC. so, i KNOW coverts are waaay more dangerous to a family or organization because of their willingness and ability to PROJECT, lie, triangulate and gossip. because it's hidden, COVERT, sneaky and slowly, silently, extremely destructive to everyone and everything around them. "mean-spirited" is an understatement. there's something supernaturally wrong, in a demonic way, with them. but they can be "nice" - sometimes even thoughtful and at times you'll feel sorry for them because they seem so fragile. that's the danger...they can appear as a harmless scared little bunny rabbit, little do you know that bunny's hiding razor sharp teeth and daggers for claws.
My ex husband (with him for 12 years 😩) was somewhere between fragile and grandiose (is good looking and he knows it) but hides his NPD more than a grandiose. He has alcohol and porn addictions, anxiety and possibly BPD. I had no idea just how much he had affected me until I started to actual grieve and unpack it all. Thanks Richard!
This is something everyone needs to hear as a member of humanity. Not meant to puff anybody up just a fact. This is stuff I wish I had been taught at a younger age and hope to help teach the upcoming generation. Thank you for sharing. And optimism is not the priority truth is.
Dysregulated emotions = Dysregulated body = physical and mental illness, social anxiety and redrawl, difficulties to concentrate and focus at work = a fucked up life - especially if children are "in the middle" of it all (sorry for the language)... 😥
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with people! I have a perfect example of a covert narcissist who's been stalking me since almost 6 years, committed numerous crimes against me including identity theft and fraud, and who turned into a monster. He's also a very dark psychic who manipulates EVERYONE and turned into a monster.
FINALLY! I waited for someone to explain/confirm something I couldn't put into words myself. One place I was part of for 4 years had these people that, like you Richard said, were pro-social, very community-oriented and had their influence in every area of that organization. I always felt like an outsider looking in. Even after 4 years!
Your observations are succinct, in my view. Grandiose narcs attract other, covert narcs who are even more desperate for power, status, and money. We're watching this happen.
My father was a grandiose narc who married a covert narc. The covert narc was my worse nightmare. She abused me until I had full blown CPTSD. She still believes that she is and was a great mother. Evil to the core.
Through my experience I’ve found coverts to be sneaky AF so a bit harder to detect. Grandiose barges in the front door while coverts slip in the back door unnoticed yet they both end up destroying the sanctity of your sacred space. Coverts and Grands are like alcohol…. You can get easily addicted to them although Grands are more like a shot of whisky so you’re more aware of the alcohol effect but Coverts are the mixed sweet drinks where the alcohol isn’t as obvious and so before you know it your drunk. LOL
I've seen a few narcissists in my life go from grandiose to covert and back over time. Sometimes this is the only proof of the case. If they're always covert/vulnerable then the guilt of leaving can be profound. It's much easier leaving an A hole.
Definitely covert. Coverts can think a lot of themselves too. This was my ex of years ago. Always had to be seen as a nice guy, but honestly he wasn't nice to me. Not genuine. At least the grandiose are genuinely themselves
Yes, indeed the covert is more violent, even without substance use or abuse. Some covert narcs are unaware they are narcs, in fact it took me almost my entire life to realize that I was a narcissist.
Presuming that a narc really loves you is a false premise. The best they can do is infatuation and that generally isn’t going to last long unless you provide a lot for the narc. Signs? Cryptic with their phone, accusing you of cheating, trying to isolate you from family and friends to better control you. Those are the biggies. Some more arrogant narcs will tell you that they are going out with a “friend” of the opposite sex and that nothing ever happened but if you wanted to do the same they would go absolutely nuts. That is because they know that they are lying. Push you to leave first? I don’t really know if that is their motive. I think it is more to try to drive you to act seemingly irrational so that they can point to you and say you were the crazy one when you do discard or are discarded. Makes for a good smear campaign. Additionally, That feeling when your cheating narcissist partner betrays you, but you don’t have the courage to leave, so you endure the pain, questioning your self-worth every day. It’s a different kind of hurt living with them, seeing them everywhere, and constantly fearing when they’ll do it again. The best decision I made was reaching out to MetaspyHub@gmail. com They helped me remotely spy on my partner’s cellphone and uncover the truth, just like they did for me. Don’t suffer in silence get the answers you deserve.
I was married for 18 years to a grandiose narcissist and met a fragile narcissist 6 months after the marriage ended. I thought I knew so much about narcissists but didn’t realise that fragile narcissists existed! Whew … steep learning curve. I endured 4 years of such intensely bad behaviour from the ‘new boyfriend’. In my experience the covert narcissist spent endless hours working out how best to hurt the people around him who had the bad luck to care about him. The grandiose, in my experience, spent endless hours working out how to run the world and mainly hurt the people around him by just not even realising that their feelings or needs existed. One was scheming and pointedly hurtful, the other, too tied up in their own amazingness to realise that you happened to get trampled on. My experience
My experience with the covert narcissist was far more damaging to me however being as intense as it was meant it was over more quickly for me. I have good memories and times from the 18 year marriage, which kept me engaged for longer. and none from the following relationship. I certainly went from bad to worse … or really bad to seriously worse!
I think if you examine your trauma you can get over the anger and the traits you might be mirroring. You can discern if it resonates. Emotions can be regulated if you learn about your emotional trauma triggers. The more secure you are the less thin skinned you tend to be.
I'm grateful to see some of the ladies I recommended to listen to Richard Grannon actually listening and commenting. He is THE EXPERT on NPD and dealing with it logically.
"There are such beings as vampires, some of us have evidence that they exist. Even had we not proof of our own unhappy experience, the teachings and records of the past give proof enough for sane people. " ~ Bram Stoker, "Dracula" You are 'sunlight' Mr. Grannon. Shine on...
Yes, indeed the covert is more violent, even without substance use or abuse. Some covert narcs are unaware they are narcs, "mid-range unaware type B" according to HG Tudor.
I’ve noticed the coverts rely heavily on intimidation. I walked on eggshells for five years. Why? I was afraid of escalation to violence. The Violence never came but I was subdued nonetheless.
I grew up with a covert narcissist mother, a pure sadistic twin sister and a grandiose narcissist older sister. I would say the grandiose is the least of the three. Simply because they are easier to laugh at and not care about. There isn't any aspect of treating you like a fish on the end of a rod. Where the fish is pulled in but released to swim freely only to be pulled back in until it's tired out. I found the grandiose narc was extremely harsh and crueler in the surface. Brutal in fact, so would appear worse. But nothing managed to entangle me. Nothing played with my heart strings that would make me gaslight myself, fool myself and be harmed deeper as a result. The sadist and covert were able to mess with my head and heart alot more and become life long problems. The grandiose I cut out of my life nearly thirty years ago and wasn't remotely difficult. The sadist I cut out only 15 years ago. And i'm still to some degree involved with the covert narcissist.
Sounds dead on to my ex. He hates rich, or anyone who is better to do than he is. He thinks he's better than anyone else, but his rage really came out when we would pass mansions and large houses he wanted. Pathetic. I love that. He thinks he hot. That is him. He is a singer/guitarist in a band (a garage band) that can't get launched, because he keeps cutting band member because of their attitudes. He's the reason they have attitudes, but he can't see that. BTW, he's 59, toothless, and looks much older than I am. Sad, he thinks he's still 25.
The grandiose has the skills to pay the bills, whilst the covert does not. They are much more bitter, angry, malignant. Take a look at the PO Horizon enquiry. Something caused an elevated ratio of narcs to cluster in that place. Maybe head office was built on an Indian burial ground, like Garth Merenge's Dark Place.
Thank you. I recommend the 30-Day Challenge. The community is supportive and I see a lot of healing and growth in such a short time. It's not magic, but it is well done and helpful. 👍
This question I turn over a lot. " Why do you keep a failure?" Answer: "To see why it failed." We can, and should, encourage brain potential and compassion in the salvage of human beings. I think about the kind of people who can give chances to enhance potential and teach. I am grateful for my teachers. And as I pass down what I know, I think about that question. For myself and others. We need to.
Haughty demeanour really is a trait of successful grandiose narcissists and condescending and patronising - I saw it all when I had the misfortune to work in the same institution and live next door to one. The night they arrived they appeared on my doorstep and I welcomed them into my home assuming that someone who knew we were going to be colleagues and neighbours for the foreseeable future would at least be friendly on first meeting but no - the opposite! They completely ignored me in my own home even when I asked them direct questions and only spoke to my husband making me feel invisible - which fits perfectly with the belief they have that they are so superior they should really only ever associate with people 'on their level' and to associate with or even acknowledge anyone else is slumming. I was simply beneath contempt at first sight. This woman proceeded to seduce and manipulate every man who took her fancy married or not and to have every 'useful' person wrapped around her little finger in no time. She was shallow, phoney, spiteful and yes - given to sulky bitchy sniping when things did not go her way. Not really a bundle of joy - instead rather a sour person - gleefully triumphant when winning but quickly bored and back down to sulky spiteful sniping in no time. Not happy really - just nasty. Oh and a self-described 'life affirming Christian'! I could not make it up!
In my experience, the fragile narcissist in my life is our daughter. She has managed to convince her father, my husband, that she is wonderful but behind his back, she is mean and rude to me. My husband thinks I am making up things about her that she is doing and defends her or will not listen to me. I told my husband that it was a form of emotional and spiritual adultery for him to believe her over me. He was shocked at that assessment but couldn't deny it. When we prefer someone else over our spouse it is disrespectful to our spouse. I ignore her phone calls and limit greatly any contact with her. God called Israel an adulterous generation for preferring their false gods over Him.
there is no worse the worst is both and thats the most common match a covert codependent mom and grandiose dad. as narcissit love eachother traits. kids get a double whamy
Mine was both. Grandious when drinking, covert when sober. I thought asking him to give up drinking when he moved in would make him ok. Well I learned a lot didn’t I, like I was completely delusional. Painful lessons
Two of each: father & brother grandiose. Mother & sister fragile. Sadly, both parents additionally lived with strong (undiagnosed) trauma /stress response as well. Only one family member saw the patterns but never understood the depths of the damage for decades.
Covert def. You spot their abuse, you spot them. Covert ones you don't. I didn't know what was wrong with me till I found out nothing. I've been through years of gaslighting and emotional abuse....
Most of the civil service, and virtue signallers. Those who despite what evidence is put in front of them, cannot and will not change their world view.
Covert def. You spot their abuse, you spot them. With covert ones you don't. I didn't know what was wrong with me till I found out nothing. I've been through 30 years of gaslighting and emotional, mental & financial abuse....
Imagine if only grandiose narcissists existed! Grandiose over fragile any day! They're easy to spot and fairly easy to deal with or not deal with. Imo, it's similiar to spending time with a four year old. Make sure all of their needs are met including assurance of how wonderful they are and not calling out any bad behavior and all will be well. For a time. Until you miss a need or your well of supply loses it's shiny newness. Lol
Ex husband of 20 years was covert npd. I got destroyed and didn't see what was happening. He's is still an addict. I believe he was on the spectrum as well.
If your proposal is correct, there are a lot more narcissists than we suppose. The functions you attribute to covert narcissists, supporting grandiose narcissists, I have understood to be the way apaths behave. Not that it makes a difference to the outcomes, but it does help to label accurately.
The covert narcissist I know can indeed be violent on really triggered occasions, but would never ever hurt a child or animal. Maybe it's lack of influence those beings have to demonstrate their genius to the world 🤔
What about Venezuela? It seems they have a chance to change their network with a good guy. Is that the way things would have to be to kill the spreading cancer?
@y.maxineallbritton3118 do I know you? Wasn't insulting him the channel or therapy I general. Was just saying if you date a narcissist that person does all the manipulative tactics to replace your voice with theirs. If you believe in Jesus and receive the spirit of God within, you have that spirit that the narcissist can't get rid of. Just my experience. Richard's channel helped me a lot not knocking it
🔴 Fast Track Course - www.richardgrannon.com/course/fast-track
12:36 ….. 🎯 It’s not the stab in the back that kills you.
It’s when you turn around and see who’s holding the knife
The grew up with malignant narcissistic, abuse, and thought I was tough. The covert narcissist is a creature I didn’t know existed, and the covert mental and emotional abuse (slow boil) over seven year, crippled me not just emotionally, but physically by triggering sever fibromyalgia, flash backs, and cptsd symptoms, that after five years of no contact, I’m STILL working on healing.
I can relate to your comment. I'm in the same situation. Not sure if you believe in God, but I will pray for you as you continue on your healing journey 💖🙏
Hi Richard ❤ my vote would be Fragile!! Sneaky, snakey, slithery creatures they are!
I grew up with a fragile narcissist mother. I didn’t get away until late in life. She’s turned family against family, wreaked havoc in my life and others. They steal your joy, trust, health, and faith in humanity.
My Dad was a grandiose narcissist/psychopath , my Mum covert- either way there was a lot of egg shell walking. That’s why I practically lived in the garden, just came home to sleep! My covert Mum taught me to take offence and feel rejected by everyone. My father taught me terror and how to feel unsafe.
... I practically lived in the garden... 😢😢😢❤❤❤
@@LadySmilesALot_WhyNotthat’s why I’m an animal communicator today, I can trust animals and nature.
Take care my friend
I loved in the garden too! Build my own shelter at 3.
i lived in the basement, lol.true story
Please study the covert narcissist who work in the charity sector. I truly believe there is a network of them. The sector is overlooked under the guise of "charity" but it is the most undiverse and unequal sector
ive heard those called "communal narissists"
They are everywhere. The nice, the hard-working and the martyrs. But also the stupid/joker types
My cousin had a grandiose father and everyone felt sorry for her and made allowances when she was nasty (largely to me, because she was jealous that my mother was everyone's favourite). But guess what? My mother is covert. I mean, she could write the instruction manual for all coverts! I've suffered in silence and isolation for 68 years so far. No understanding, no sympathy... I can't even tell anyone the truth about her or what my life has been like. My husband finally saw the real her after 48 years. He still doubts it regularly. But finally I have validation and an ally. I think coverts are definitely worse. The loneliness is a killer.
Thank you for covering this. I’ve been through hell and back, and then again after being hoovered back a couple times by that snake and his vampire father. I wish emotional dis regulation, and the cognitive dissonance this abuse creates, on no one.
Cptsd is like living in hell, but it’s not “all in your head”, and you do feel the burning and agony of the slow boil they wanted to witness you feel
After 23yrs with a vulnerable/ covert narc for me it's their desire to witness to that "slow boil" to demise that this spirit lusts after that's so wickedly evil and depraved to comprehend. And when it happened I was "in love" with this spirit.
Your work on narcissism just gets better and better Richard, thank you! 💟💟💟👏👏👏👍👍👍
He is THE expert on this psychological disease that is infesting humans today.
I've struggled with being able to tell if I live with a narcissist or not. But I think I am.
1. I often walk on egg shells
2. I'm isolated from friends and family and no one feels comfortable visiting
3. Her issues are my issue and my issues are my issues
4. Double standards
🎯 In my experience with growing up with, imo & not diagnosed, a covert narcissist mother, I 100% agree with you that they are the most dangerous. She was nasty, abusive, cold/unloving at home but presented herself (and us kids bc we were dressed well, fed appropriately, etc) to the outside world as a friendly, helpful, caring person, a good mother ('See,look at my children how clean, well fed & dressed they are'!)
The 'vibe' at home was , I'd describe as, a cold war. The high level of tension was always there. Insidious.A cold fury barely concealed ready to erupt at any time.
I didn’t realise I carried an anxious, churning feeling in the pit of my stomach all my life until many years later after spending some time in a 12 step group (ironicly for families & friends of alcoholics as my father was an alcoholic although non-violent, high functioning & actually mostly kind & patient with us kids. Turns out he was the least of my problems!), I noticed one day it wasn't there!
I didn’t even know I'd been abused until a psychiatrist I saw (after a mental breakdown- dx panic disorder, major depression, ptsd) said, "That's child abuse" after I'd relayed some of my childhood memories.
She wouldn't allow a baby, a toddler, a little girl to show any emotion. I had to be a robot."Children should be seen and not heard"
She destroyed my life.
I've managed to have a go at each, finally healing the child in me that is attracting these men. Never again
Your voice is soothing and I appreciate your new black background with your black attire;: very relaxing.
i'm reasonably sure my mom was a covert narc, maybe a mild psychopath. over and over, she told a story about how her mom had to rescue a kitten she'd thrown i the rain barrel to "see if it could swim" when she was 4. she was telling that story at family gatherings into her '70's and had no awareness of people including her favourite/younger sister cringing. she saw it as a cute story and giggled retelling it. she assaulted me when i was 6 or 7, in a frustrated rage and in her late 70's still insisted i deserved it and she wasn't sorry at all.
the mental abuse and verbal cruelty was up a level from the physical though. i eventually brpoke down when i was 7 or 8 and asked if i was adopted because she claimed so often i was switched with a hutterite's child in the hospital and how i was so ugly when i was born they didn't believe i was theirs, ETC. so, i KNOW coverts are waaay more dangerous to a family or organization because of their willingness and ability to PROJECT, lie, triangulate and gossip. because it's hidden, COVERT, sneaky and slowly, silently, extremely destructive to everyone and everything around them. "mean-spirited" is an understatement. there's something supernaturally wrong, in a demonic way, with them. but they can be "nice" - sometimes even thoughtful and at times you'll feel sorry for them because they seem so fragile. that's the danger...they can appear as a harmless scared little bunny rabbit, little do you know that bunny's hiding razor sharp teeth and daggers for claws.
My ex husband (with him for 12 years 😩) was somewhere between fragile and grandiose (is good looking and he knows it) but hides his NPD more than a grandiose. He has alcohol and porn addictions, anxiety and possibly BPD. I had no idea just how much he had affected me until I started to actual grieve and unpack it all. Thanks Richard!
Exactly same for mine except the porn
This is something everyone needs to hear as a member of humanity. Not meant to puff anybody up just a fact. This is stuff I wish I had been taught at a younger age and hope to help teach the upcoming generation. Thank you for sharing. And optimism is not the priority truth is.
That last bit 🤌
Thank you Richard for all you've taught me and continue to teach me. Your teachings have been a lifeline more than few times.
I was married to a fragile... definitely more violent. After divorce i dated a grandiose. They are both horrific.
Dysregulated emotions = Dysregulated body = physical and mental illness, social anxiety and redrawl, difficulties to concentrate and focus at work = a fucked up life - especially if children are "in the middle" of it all (sorry for the language)... 😥
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with people! I have a perfect example of a covert narcissist who's been stalking me since almost 6 years, committed numerous crimes against me including identity theft and fraud, and who turned into a monster. He's also a very dark psychic who manipulates EVERYONE and turned into a monster.
FINALLY! I waited for someone to explain/confirm something I couldn't put into words myself. One place I was part of for 4 years had these people that, like you Richard said, were pro-social, very community-oriented and had their influence in every area of that organization. I always felt like an outsider looking in. Even after 4 years!
Keep this man safe 🤗
the comparison with spreading cancer in large organisations is helpful, thank you.
Your observations are succinct, in my view. Grandiose narcs attract other, covert narcs who are even more desperate for power, status, and money. We're watching this happen.
My father was a grandiose narc who married a covert narc. The covert narc was my worse nightmare. She abused me until I had full blown CPTSD. She still believes that she is and was a great mother. Evil to the core.
You don't even know you're dealing with a covert narc.
It's that covert, yes.
These types of videos are now waking us up to how evil narc abusers are. We didn't know before, we thought we were the problem.
Not till it’s too late to avoid the harm but not to go no contact!
Through my experience I’ve found coverts to be sneaky AF so a bit harder to detect. Grandiose barges in the front door while coverts slip in the back door unnoticed yet they both end up destroying the sanctity of your sacred space. Coverts and Grands are like alcohol…. You can get easily addicted to them although Grands are more like a shot of whisky so you’re more aware of the alcohol effect but Coverts are the mixed sweet drinks where the alcohol isn’t as obvious and so before you know it your drunk. LOL
Great analogy.
@lichtwerkerliz Grandoise barges in the front door and says , "The alpha is home." Lmfao!
It's all a facade.
I've seen a few narcissists in my life go from grandiose to covert and back over time. Sometimes this is the only proof of the case. If they're always covert/vulnerable then the guilt of leaving can be profound. It's much easier leaving an A hole.
Definitely covert. Coverts can think a lot of themselves too. This was my ex of years ago. Always had to be seen as a nice guy, but honestly he wasn't nice to me. Not genuine. At least the grandiose are genuinely themselves
Yes fake all the way ! I’m glad I met another man ten times better and richer than him and dumped him!
Yes, indeed the covert is more violent, even without substance use or abuse. Some covert narcs are unaware they are narcs, in fact it took me almost my entire life to realize that I was a narcissist.
@@NarcissistHex-nf9eq wow!
Presuming that a narc really loves you is a false premise. The best they can do is infatuation and that generally isn’t going to last long unless you provide a lot for the narc.
Signs? Cryptic with their phone, accusing you of cheating, trying to isolate you from family and friends to better control you. Those are the biggies. Some more arrogant narcs will tell you that they are going out with a “friend” of the opposite sex and that nothing ever happened but if you wanted to do the same they would go absolutely nuts. That is because they know that they are lying.
Push you to leave first? I don’t really know if that is their motive. I think it is more to try to drive you to act seemingly irrational so that they can point to you and say you were the crazy one when you do discard or are discarded. Makes for a good smear campaign.
Additionally, That feeling when your cheating narcissist partner betrays you, but you don’t have the courage to leave, so you endure the pain, questioning your self-worth every day. It’s a different kind of hurt living with them, seeing them everywhere, and constantly fearing when they’ll do it again. The best decision I made was reaching out to MetaspyHub@gmail. com They helped me remotely spy on my partner’s cellphone and uncover the truth, just like they did for me. Don’t suffer in silence get the answers you deserve.
I was married for 18 years to a grandiose narcissist and met a fragile narcissist 6 months after the marriage ended. I thought I knew so much about narcissists but didn’t realise that fragile narcissists existed! Whew … steep learning curve. I endured 4 years of such intensely bad behaviour from the ‘new boyfriend’. In my experience the covert narcissist spent endless hours working out how best to hurt the people around him who had the bad luck to care about him. The grandiose, in my experience, spent endless hours working out how to run the world and mainly hurt the people around him by just not even realising that their feelings or needs existed. One was scheming and pointedly hurtful, the other, too tied up in their own amazingness to realise that you happened to get trampled on. My experience
So, according to you, which one is worse and more dangerous to its prey ?
My experience with the covert narcissist was far more damaging to me however being as intense as it was meant it was over more quickly for me. I have good memories and times from the 18 year marriage, which kept me engaged for longer. and none from the following relationship. I certainly went from bad to worse … or really bad to seriously worse!
EXCELLENT comparative analysis of the two! 🎯🎯🎯🎯
I've just completed my first 30 days - bloody brilliant, highly recommend if you are seeking change. Now going on to my second round :)
I think if you examine your trauma you can get over the anger and the traits you might be mirroring. You can discern if it resonates. Emotions can be regulated if you learn about your emotional trauma triggers. The more secure you are the less thin skinned you tend to be.
From 7:30. You pretty much described my mother to a "t"! Holy cow!!
I'm grateful to see some of the ladies I recommended to listen to Richard Grannon actually listening and commenting. He is THE EXPERT on NPD and dealing with it logically.
"There are such beings as vampires, some of us have evidence that they exist. Even had we not proof of our own unhappy experience, the teachings and records of the past give proof enough for sane people. " ~ Bram Stoker, "Dracula"
You are 'sunlight' Mr. Grannon. Shine on...
Yes, indeed the covert is more violent, even without substance use or abuse. Some covert narcs are unaware they are narcs, "mid-range unaware type B" according to HG Tudor.
I’ve noticed the coverts rely heavily on intimidation. I walked on eggshells for five years. Why? I was afraid of escalation to violence. The Violence never came but I was subdued nonetheless.
Indeed!
I grew up with a covert narcissist mother, a pure sadistic twin sister and a grandiose narcissist older sister. I would say the grandiose is the least of the three. Simply because they are easier to laugh at and not care about. There isn't any aspect of treating you like a fish on the end of a rod. Where the fish is pulled in but released to swim freely only to be pulled back in until it's tired out. I found the grandiose narc was extremely harsh and crueler in the surface. Brutal in fact, so would appear worse. But nothing managed to entangle me. Nothing played with my heart strings that would make me gaslight myself, fool myself and be harmed deeper as a result. The sadist and covert were able to mess with my head and heart alot more and become life long problems. The grandiose I cut out of my life nearly thirty years ago and wasn't remotely difficult. The sadist I cut out only 15 years ago. And i'm still to some degree involved with the covert narcissist.
Sounds dead on to my ex. He hates rich, or anyone who is better to do than he is. He thinks he's better than anyone else, but his rage really came out when we would pass mansions and large houses he wanted. Pathetic. I love that. He thinks he hot. That is him. He is a singer/guitarist in a band (a garage band) that can't get launched, because he keeps cutting band member because of their attitudes. He's the reason they have attitudes, but he can't see that. BTW, he's 59, toothless, and looks much older than I am. Sad, he thinks he's still 25.
The grandiose has the skills to pay the bills, whilst the covert does not. They are much more bitter, angry, malignant. Take a look at the PO Horizon enquiry. Something caused an elevated ratio of narcs to cluster in that place. Maybe head office was built on an Indian burial ground, like Garth Merenge's Dark Place.
Truth ❤
Thank you. I recommend the 30-Day Challenge. The community is supportive and I see a lot of healing and growth in such a short time. It's not magic, but it is well done and helpful. 👍
This question I turn over a lot. " Why do you keep a failure?" Answer: "To see why it failed." We can, and should, encourage brain potential and compassion in the salvage of human beings. I think about the kind of people who can give chances to enhance potential and teach. I am grateful for my teachers. And as I pass down what I know, I think about that question. For myself and others. We need to.
First point… I can attest to this personally. It is my soon to be ex husband.
Haughty demeanour really is a trait of successful grandiose narcissists and condescending and patronising - I saw it all when I had the misfortune to work in the same institution and live next door to one.
The night they arrived they appeared on my doorstep and I welcomed them into my home assuming that someone who knew we were going to be colleagues and neighbours for the foreseeable future would at least be friendly on first meeting but no - the opposite!
They completely ignored me in my own home even when I asked them direct questions and only spoke to my husband making me feel invisible - which fits perfectly with the belief they have that they are so superior they should really only ever associate with people 'on their level' and to associate with or even acknowledge anyone else is slumming.
I was simply beneath contempt at first sight.
This woman proceeded to seduce and manipulate every man who took her fancy married or not and to have every 'useful' person wrapped around her little finger in no time.
She was shallow, phoney, spiteful and yes - given to sulky bitchy sniping when things did not go her way.
Not really a bundle of joy - instead rather a sour person - gleefully triumphant when winning but quickly bored and back down to sulky spiteful sniping in no time.
Not happy really - just nasty.
Oh and a self-described 'life affirming Christian'!
I could not make it up!
In my experience, the fragile narcissist in my life is our daughter. She has managed to convince her father, my husband, that she is wonderful but behind his back, she is mean and rude to me. My husband thinks I am making up things about her that she is doing and defends her or will not listen to me. I told my husband that it was a form of emotional and spiritual adultery for him to believe her over me. He was shocked at that assessment but couldn't deny it. When we prefer someone else over our spouse it is disrespectful to our spouse. I ignore her phone calls and limit greatly any contact with her. God called Israel an adulterous generation for preferring their false gods over Him.
In my experience, the covert narcissist is the most challenging type.
there is no worse the worst is both and thats the most common match a covert codependent mom and grandiose dad. as narcissit love eachother traits. kids get a double whamy
Mine was both. Grandious when drinking, covert when sober. I thought asking him to give up drinking when he moved in would make him ok. Well I learned a lot didn’t I, like I was completely delusional. Painful lessons
YOUR RIGHT !
Two of each: father & brother grandiose. Mother & sister fragile.
Sadly, both parents additionally lived with strong (undiagnosed) trauma /stress response as well. Only one family member saw the patterns but never understood the depths of the damage for decades.
Vive la revolution!!!
Covert def. You spot their abuse, you spot them. Covert ones you don't. I didn't know what was wrong with me till I found out nothing. I've been through years of gaslighting and emotional abuse....
Most of the civil service, and virtue signallers. Those who despite what evidence is put in front of them, cannot and will not change their world view.
Covert def. You spot their abuse, you spot them. With covert ones you don't. I didn't know what was wrong with me till I found out nothing. I've been through 30 years of gaslighting and emotional, mental & financial abuse....
i was listening and understanding everything but then suddenly he started again.
Imagine if only grandiose narcissists existed! Grandiose over fragile any day!
They're easy to spot and fairly easy to deal with or not deal with. Imo, it's similiar to spending time with a four year old. Make sure all of their needs are met including assurance of how wonderful they are and not calling out any bad behavior and all will be well. For a time. Until you miss a need or your well of supply loses it's shiny newness. Lol
Ex husband of 20 years was covert npd. I got destroyed and didn't see what was happening. He's is still an addict. I believe he was on the spectrum as well.
If your proposal is correct, there are a lot more narcissists than we suppose. The functions you attribute to covert narcissists, supporting grandiose narcissists, I have understood to be the way apaths behave. Not that it makes a difference to the outcomes, but it does help to label accurately.
Holy crap!
Facts 🎉
The covert narcissist I know can indeed be violent on really triggered occasions, but would never ever hurt a child or animal. Maybe it's lack of influence those beings have to demonstrate their genius to the world 🤔
What if I can recognise a lot of traits of covert narcissism in myself?
17:28 😱💘💔🎯
What about Venezuela? It seems they have a chance to change their network with a good guy. Is that the way things would have to be to kill the spreading cancer?
😊😍
Sounds like the Dutch Communist party.......🤣😂🤣😂
Trump! The "MOST" Grandiose Narcissist.
Sounds like fox news
Spot on… glad tons of them are getting fired under the new administration 😆
You should consider prayer richard. God is there and unlike therapists He doesnt ask for money
@y.maxineallbritton3118 do I know you? Wasn't insulting him the channel or therapy I general. Was just saying if you date a narcissist that person does all the manipulative tactics to replace your voice with theirs. If you believe in Jesus and receive the spirit of God within, you have that spirit that the narcissist can't get rid of. Just my experience. Richard's channel helped me a lot not knocking it
@Michael-v5n1l my apologies. It was read very incorrect from your intention.
omg... I can see a scenario
yes, even the ones with money..yes
Yes, the Epic, horror flick.