Loved that so much. Pete seems to be only one who goes through some form of development, and achieves some form of the mindfulness Don eventually commodifies.
Underrated comment. She disliked Don's move, that cost them the the Jaguar client even after she prostituted herself, but Don always had her back when it mattered. She learned real quick how much she needed guys like him and Roger in Mcann lolol.
I just finished watching the whole series. I don't understand why Joan is so beloved. She betrays Don mercilessly in both S6 & 7 and she got her stake in the company by literally prostituting herself. She's a world class bitch.
@@ChernorizecHrabyrshe was forced to prostitute, they pressured her. So of course she would be pissed that he nuked the deal after what she was forced to do.
Joan was ready to throw Don in the trash wuen he was having personal problems. Most of the partners didn't understand what a pro Don was. Roger knew and acted accordingly.
Cutler: he's a bit if poseur if ya ask me..Don...he likes to talk the talk I don't know.. Cooper: ..What..what he say?.. Cutler: His account, his client.. Cooper:...son of a bitch...
@@thewizard636 Yep, McCann only wanted Don. They took Sterling, Campbell, Joan, and Ted, but throughout the series, Don is enthusiastically pursued by Jim Hobart at McCann.
Don fumbled Hershey, but considering everything else he did for the firm and the fact that it wouldn't exist if not for him.. I just feel like he'd earned a few more strikes than they gave him.
They were just sick of him at that point. He kept showing up late, he wasn't working with ted or anyone else, and he kept screwing up major clients: tobacco, chevy, jaguar, hershey. He did some good, but at that point, it was too much.
I love how even though Joan agrees with him, she knows this isn't going to go well for Cutler. She knows Don well enough to know he turns it on when he's backed into a corner and Roger and Pete well enough to realize Cutler has burned his support among the other partners.
Lmao she absolutely knew nothing about that business. It was a surprise she lasted that long without any talent. Peggy on the other hand should've definitely been made a partner because unlike Joan she actually had talent. All Joan could really actually do was fire secretaries and walk around about the office aimlessly. She had some nerve opposing don like that. Especially considering that Don was perhaps the most talented individual in that room right there along with Peggy. I always hated Joan and my hatred grew more as the show progressed and she tried to fucking out don from the office
@@JamesNalacar I think you underestimate Joan's abilities. Managing the underlings in the office is tedious and boring, but she kept the drama from consuming the place. Don also cost her mucho dinero when he fired Jaguar cars. Joan also was sly in dealing with Butler Foot ware and Avon, two important clients. Peggy was a lousy boss. Look at her time at C,G, and S. She could not relate to her copywriters and talked down to them, stifling their creativity. I totally agree that Joan herself became to pretentious and I enjoyed the scene where Harry defends Scarlet. He basically tells Joan they are tired of her bullshit. people like Joan have value in a company, you have to know how to utilize them correctly.
@@JamesNalacar Sadly you're right. Joan became arrogant after she made partner, she started to oppose Don when he was the only on who opposed her prostitution deal.
don never played by the book and even when they took him back imposing those rules, i think they all knew that he wasn't going to let anybody walk over him
Technically Don did not break the rules apart from the drinking in the office (which no one knew about). At the Philip Morris meeting technically he was not alone, the rule was that he could not meet clients alone.
It's crazy how much I ended up liking Pete by the end. He goes from being the little weasel that tries to get Don fired to the guy outside of Roger, standing up for Don the most. Pete in the end is playing the long game. Happy he had a good ending
When I watched this the first time, I thought Harry Crane becoming a partner would be Don's saving grace. Instead we got the humor of Harry's greed locking him out from profiting off of the McCann buyout while Roger played his move.
That was the whole point. The only reason Crane beame partner was Cutler wanted Don out. If Harry said no, he would not have been offered the position.
Joan really didn't understand how good she had it (relatively speaking) until they're at McCann. While Roger essentially founded her, Don embraced her in that company and set her up to be showcased as a major asset to the company. Once she got to McCann, she got a taste of the real world and how typically men executives truly treated women in the office in the 1960's, early 70's. I felt like the problem with Joan's arc is that it relies on her being naïve to the working world when up to this point she was far from that. Yes she's a single mother who had to put a lot of hard work in to get where she was, but was still the smartest in the office when it came to office politics. Her going to the extreme lengths to cut an ally in Don and burn that longstanding bridge was out of character to me in a lot of ways.
I had a hard time reconciling her betrayal of Don in this scene. It was a dollars and cents decision, which I appreciate, but she and Don had such a rapport. They understood each other. A shame.
@@reallyhappenings5597 it was more than the money. It was the fact that she gave what she gave for Jaguar and Don threw it away without consulting her or anyone else.
@@Ben-bb7mi And no one's gonna talk about how when the company was planning to whore out Joan to the jaguar guys only Don was the one to speak openly against it. Yeah don is a total dick in a lot of scenarios but don't ignore his good deeds too, as few as they may be.
@@JamesNalacar Matthew Weiner has said that the only reason Don tried to discourage Joan from sleeping with the jaguar guy is not because he cares about her. It's because he wanted to win jaguar on his own! Don has a pretty big ego and likes everything to be about him all the time. Joan was competing with his ego, even if she didn't know it. And...a past good doesn't erase a future wrong! Don acted like an impulsive, selfish little boy when he decide to fire jaguar on a whim and costing everyone money. Most importantly, he ignored what Joan had to do and treated it as if it was nothing.
“You shouldn’t have done that.” is a nice line from Joan. I like that they give Cutler a beat to reflect, and maybe even feel a tinge of regret, because he was totally unshaken when Don was in his face just moments before.
i personally love how things have changed over the years. From the early days of being in the posh offices back when they were kings, now watching this where its just some little office space and they have their little offices like everyone else has. You don't just go up to the boss's floor and office, here they are like everyone else, just some small no nothing offices in the same area.
When they put Don on leave they had Chevy and thought they were too big to fail. Then they lost Chevy and they needed Burger Chef and suddenly Don wasn’t so bad.
Joan really overplayed her hand and misread this situation. Sure, Don it’s a pain in the ass, but he did too much to the firm to lose all the support he had. Harry may have Ted support (he didn’t btw, because Ted agrees to go to McCann later), but Don still had Roger and Pete. And Bert, besides also not being happy with Don, was always an very skilled politician to go to war like that. Also, she overvalued herself here. She was an office manager, whom was trying to be an accounts woman and was still learning. Don was a legend in the industry, even if he was fired he would choose his next job. Eventually, her lack of loyalty to Don was her own downfall, because Roger sells the firm to cut Jim off and protect Don. And we all know who that turn out to Joan. Also, Pete’s arc show how important it is to be loyal to the right people. He tried to overthrow Don with Roger and Bert, he was fired, then rehired and then laughed at by Cooper. He learned it was best to be loyal and that’s how he became a partner in SCDP instead of Ken, who was the Head of Accounts. And his career was meteoric after that.
Perhaps. I see it as her staking out a position. She knew how the vote would go. It was a power move. Getting her thoughts out. I say this based kn her last line to cutler
The whole loyalty thing from Peter to Don started when Roger convinced Pete that Don saved him job in earlier seasons. Then Don helped Peter with 50 k to become a partner and after that Don was like a brother to him. Add to that he always admired Don abilities and Pete was really like a hound when it camed to defending Don ass in 6 and 7 season
This scene makes it crystal clear that Secretaries don't make good business partners as they lack foresight. Don is the one on whom this agency sees the light of the day, every day. She caved in and fell prey to the Cutler's tactics to sideline Don. I would stick my neck out and say that Pete Campbell became Don's strongest ally alongside Roger Sterling. Joan found out at McCann firsthand how it is like to work in a big agency with dirty politics across the hierarchies. She made an error of judgment by going against Don. The man who runs the show at Sterling-Cooper-Draper-Price. Ted Chough is a one trick pony. Michael Ginsberg was a powerhouse of ideas. Ted Chough hasn't done anything noteworthy other than teaming up with Don for the Chevrolet pitch. Having said that, never bet against the agency's rain man. Joan realizes it at McCann's. I am speaking out of my agency experience. I have been mentored to go into the battle with the Creative Director vis-a-vis Boss.
If you put it in a more professional view, you're right! Although users like MMD try to justify Joan. I also don't justify Don because I always berated him for NOT telling his partners first what Herb tried to do because of his ego.
i'm on my 3rd MadMen rewatch,, come to think of it, the writers actually killed Bert cooper so that don would lose his vote which corners him into leaving the agency.. wow
Jesus... It's always incredible to read these RUclips comments and see how many people didn't understand the show at all and think it's about "alpha Don and Roger" dealing with hippies and hoes. Joan proves how invaluable she is during the formation of the company as she is essentially the only one who understands the day to day operations of the company. Don, as Cutler pointed out, is literally a drunk bully who has amazing ad ideas and is often saved by Pete, Ruger or other miraculous turn of events that postpone his downfall. The show ends with Joan starting her own production company and Don contemplating suicide before he suddenly has one last great idea.
Joan’s story arc is one of never being able to control her own circumstances. She is constantly the victim of other people trying to control her through their own actions, be it Roger, Don, Peggy, the Mcann deal, Pete, her husband, or just societal expectations for what is expected of an attractive female at that time. She was pissed because she was manipulated into sleeping with Herb to get the Jaguar account and then Don, from her perspective, selfishly fired Herb out of his own misplaced sense or chivalry (along with making a lot of other selfish mistakes) so that it was almost like she did it for nothing. It made sense to me that she would be resentful of him after that. It was clear from her resentment of Peggy when she tried to stick up for her earlier on that she doesn’t like when people do this claiming to help her when really it is out of their own desire to be the hero which in turn takes away her agency and makes her once again the victim of circumstance.
@@liamcragin Yeah no. Joan's arc was written to satisfy the feminist mob. Unrealistic and laughable that she went from a secretary banging the boss and random men to a partner.
Joan's tired of Don "costing her money" by being selfish, bringing up his personal issues at work, not caring about his partners, being drunk at work and fcking up clients meetings and contracts*
It made sense though, every other partner was rich or had someone to fall back on. She was all alone in the world as a single mother. In the end, she still got screwed out of her share of the company too.
@@jtothey1993 if she didnt take Jims side she would still be an impactful partner, Jims power became too terrifying that everyone on Dons side had to find a helping hand before Jim pushes everyone out. Therefore the absorbance from McCann, which eventually forces her out with much less money compared to her time partnership at SCDP. I dont blame her at the time of the Jaguar, but later on she kept using the sacrifice and victim excuses to be rightfully against Don is way too annoying and obnoxious. The partners never forced her on Jaguar, they even said she could still say no. But she took the offer for a partnership, even for only 5%, it is still quite a lot for an experienced secrectary. Yet she still used it as an excuse so everyone cant blame her for her resent on Don. She always acts strong and even expects people to get themselves together but when it suddenly comes to her problems she always let things loose. Remember when she wants someone to fire people she doesnt like using her appearance and gets mad when her demand isnt approved? Shes a hypocrite.
@@jtothey1993 She didn't get screwed. She got 50c on the dollar cash and didn't have to wait 3 years. That's an extremely reasonable deal for a private buyout.
Mad Men could be tense and funny at the same time. "That is a very sensitive piece of horseflesh" lol "I'm tired of him costing me money", "he's a pain in the ass". Such Grade-A writing.
There are only a few moments in the show when someone says something to Don that cuts right to the heart of all his insecurities. Cutler lands one of those blows here. Danny lands the other, with “You’re just handsome.”
Don: You wanna' play parliamentary procedure? Let's play! Everyone who wants to get rid of him, raise your hand. Cutler: Fine!! ((raises two hands)) I have Ted proxy. Don: We can do that?
What was so fascinating is how everyone around Don that was against Don was painted as a villain, and the show made you sympathetic to Don....even though Don was absolutely the worst, most unprofessional person at his job any place he worked, LOL! Jim Butler was pretty much spot on with his Don assessment, yet we sympathize with Don.
Joan was in a tough position just by being a woman during that time period-maybe she couldn’t have gotten partner status a more ‘traditional’ way but that isn’t to say she didn’t deserve said status. Honestly the whole Jaguar thing was pretty embarrassing and I felt bad for her whenever it was brought up; but I was happy she eventually achieved partner status at all.
@@flyforce16 I feel the same way. Joan's not perfect (hell, no one in Mad Men is), but after everything that she did for the company, I'd say that she'd more than earned her place within the partners' inner circle.
Sure and if Don sleeps with his clients to control them, that’s allowed. Everyone played the cards they were dealt to their advantage. And you sound like a sexist piece of shit.
This show was done when hack harry hamlin showed up. Some aging holloywood agents did each other a favor and DESTROYED it by dumping hamlin on the show. It became cringeworthy with him in scens
@@ykMMD Ah you're everywhere in this comment section trying to defend Joan but let me make one thing clear. Joan had no talent at all. The only talent she had was sleeping with others to get what she wants and don was the only one who actually talked against it. Yeah maybe if she actually had some kind of talent then I would agree with you but the thing is that she's an absolutely talentless bitch. She had some nerve going against don like that considering that Don was the most genius individual in that room and Joan was the most worthless pile of crap. Peggy on the other hand was actually someone who deserved a partnership. Do you know why? Because she actually had some fucking talent.
@Mr Damage Seriously though by the end of the show it was only don, Peggy and pete who were actually talented and they were basically carrying the whole agency. Joan on the other hand was a talentless bitch. All she knew was whining and walking around the office flaunting herself.
Don was the only one who was willing to hurt company to save Joan honour when other approved her sleeping with that fat dude and she knew that and she still wanted to ruin Don in 6 and 7 season until this episode. Why?
Pete remained loyal to Don till the end
Surprisingly, yes.
@@ATMyles "Fire him if you want. But I'd keep an eye on him. One never knows how loyalty is born."
@@Ben-bb7mi cooper was always wise.
He sure did
That is a very sensitive piece of horse flesh and he shouldn't be rattled!
“One never knows how loyalty is born…” comes full circle with Pete, I love it
There's a reason why Bert is running Mad Ave. company.
2:18 “That is a very sensitive piece of horse flesh! He shouldn’t be rattled!”
Loved that so much. Pete seems to be only one who goes through some form of development, and achieves some form of the mindfulness Don eventually commodifies.
@@billytitus1519 I suppose it was the Cali Sun
Don won the Preakness that year.
One never knows where and how loyalty is born
Joan goes to Mcann and wishes she had Don back real quick lol
Underrated comment. She disliked Don's move, that cost them the the Jaguar client even after she prostituted herself, but Don always had her back when it mattered. She learned real quick how much she needed guys like him and Roger in Mcann lolol.
Yea, but not even Roger could help her jim didn't give a shit
I just finished watching the whole series. I don't understand why Joan is so beloved. She betrays Don mercilessly in both S6 & 7 and she got her stake in the company by literally prostituting herself. She's a world class bitch.
@@ChernorizecHrabyrshe was forced to prostitute, they pressured her. So of course she would be pissed that he nuked the deal after what she was forced to do.
Joan was ready to throw Don in the trash wuen he was having personal problems. Most of the partners didn't understand what a pro Don was. Roger knew and acted accordingly.
Don may have been a "football player in a suit." But I can tell you one thing: he never had the makings of a varsity athlete.
There you go!!
OOOOOHHHHHH
A man of culture i see
My estimation of Don as a football player in a suit just fucking plummeted
Cutler: he's a bit if poseur if ya ask me..Don...he likes to talk the talk I don't know..
Cooper: ..What..what he say?..
Cutler: His account, his client..
Cooper:...son of a bitch...
Cutler really got to Don in this scene, especially when he bluntly told Don what he thought of him. Wow.
Cutler was absolutely right.
Don really isolated himself because he has such low self-esteem, he thinks he doesn't care what others think of him but this showed otherwise
Don won in the end when McCann wanted nothing to do with cutler.
@@thewizard636 Yep, McCann only wanted Don. They took Sterling, Campbell, Joan, and Ted, but throughout the series, Don is enthusiastically pursued by Jim Hobart at McCann.
@@flightofthebumblebee9529 He forgot the part where Don is a genius and shit like this comes along with it
Don fumbled Hershey, but considering everything else he did for the firm and the fact that it wouldn't exist if not for him.. I just feel like he'd earned a few more strikes than they gave him.
They were just sick of him at that point. He kept showing up late, he wasn't working with ted or anyone else, and he kept screwing up major clients: tobacco, chevy, jaguar, hershey. He did some good, but at that point, it was too much.
@@Daholyone11 he got them Chevy.
@@Daholyone11 yep
They backed him to a corner and then he brings in Burger Chef. Sure, Peggy did the talking, but that pitch was 100% Don’s.
@@2012jaysean Not by himself, remember he went in with Ted and Cutler. Plus, Roger was instrumental in gaining rapport with a Chevy executive.
I love how even though Joan agrees with him, she knows this isn't going to go well for Cutler. She knows Don well enough to know he turns it on when he's backed into a corner and Roger and Pete well enough to realize Cutler has burned his support among the other partners.
Lmao she absolutely knew nothing about that business. It was a surprise she lasted that long without any talent. Peggy on the other hand should've definitely been made a partner because unlike Joan she actually had talent. All Joan could really actually do was fire secretaries and walk around about the office aimlessly. She had some nerve opposing don like that. Especially considering that Don was perhaps the most talented individual in that room right there along with Peggy. I always hated Joan and my hatred grew more as the show progressed and she tried to fucking out don from the office
@@JamesNalacar
@@JamesNalacar I think you underestimate Joan's abilities. Managing the underlings in the office is tedious and boring, but she kept the drama from consuming the place. Don also cost her mucho dinero when he fired Jaguar cars. Joan also was sly in dealing with Butler Foot ware and Avon, two important clients. Peggy was a lousy boss. Look at her time at C,G, and S. She could not relate to her copywriters and talked down to them, stifling their creativity. I totally agree that Joan herself became to pretentious and I enjoyed the scene where Harry defends Scarlet. He basically tells Joan they are tired of her bullshit. people like Joan have value in a company, you have to know how to utilize them correctly.
@@JamesNalacar Sadly you're right. Joan became arrogant after she made partner, she started to oppose Don when he was the only on who opposed her prostitution deal.
@@JamesNalacar reminds me of Donna from suits.
"Then why did you say 'what's going on'?" Brilliant.
Joan really was playing on all the sides in this scene.
don never played by the book and even when they took him back imposing those rules, i think they all knew that he wasn't going to let anybody walk over him
Technically Don did not break the rules apart from the drinking in the office (which no one knew about). At the Philip Morris meeting technically he was not alone, the rule was that he could not meet clients alone.
@@solidoperative I thought the rule there was that he wasn't allowed to pitch anything that wasn't pre-approved.
@@Tim85-y2q Yep even Bert was treating him like garbage by this point
It's crazy how much I ended up liking Pete by the end. He goes from being the little weasel that tries to get Don fired to the guy outside of Roger, standing up for Don the most. Pete in the end is playing the long game. Happy he had a good ending
Joan raised her hands because she knew it would eventually fail, but wanted to convey her anger
She's immature
@@300thNPC She's right.
@@arjanpellewithout people like Don and Rogger, Joan would've been another uppity sercretary.
When I watched this the first time, I thought Harry Crane becoming a partner would be Don's saving grace. Instead we got the humor of Harry's greed locking him out from profiting off of the McCann buyout while Roger played his move.
That was the whole point. The only reason Crane beame partner was Cutler wanted Don out. If Harry said no, he would not have been offered the position.
Ken's face at 1:47 is priceless lol
And at Harry, CLASSIC!!!!!!😎
Oh, man. I have never noticed that. It's great.
Bert "you have no right to put my name on that!" Cooper
Joan really didn't understand how good she had it (relatively speaking) until they're at McCann. While Roger essentially founded her, Don embraced her in that company and set her up to be showcased as a major asset to the company. Once she got to McCann, she got a taste of the real world and how typically men executives truly treated women in the office in the 1960's, early 70's.
I felt like the problem with Joan's arc is that it relies on her being naïve to the working world when up to this point she was far from that. Yes she's a single mother who had to put a lot of hard work in to get where she was, but was still the smartest in the office when it came to office politics. Her going to the extreme lengths to cut an ally in Don and burn that longstanding bridge was out of character to me in a lot of ways.
I had a hard time reconciling her betrayal of Don in this scene. It was a dollars and cents decision, which I appreciate, but she and Don had such a rapport. They understood each other. A shame.
@@ATMyles It's the completion of, not a departure from, her arc to flatly say that Don is costing her money.
@@reallyhappenings5597 it was more than the money. It was the fact that she gave what she gave for Jaguar and Don threw it away without consulting her or anyone else.
@@Ben-bb7mi And no one's gonna talk about how when the company was planning to whore out Joan to the jaguar guys only Don was the one to speak openly against it. Yeah don is a total dick in a lot of scenarios but don't ignore his good deeds too, as few as they may be.
@@JamesNalacar Matthew Weiner has said that the only reason Don tried to discourage Joan from sleeping with the jaguar guy is not because he cares about her. It's because he wanted to win jaguar on his own! Don has a pretty big ego and likes everything to be about him all the time. Joan was competing with his ego, even if she didn't know it. And...a past good doesn't erase a future wrong! Don acted like an impulsive, selfish little boy when he decide to fire jaguar on a whim and costing everyone money. Most importantly, he ignored what Joan had to do and treated it as if it was nothing.
Imagine having a meeting like that in the middle of the office workspace, lol
Love Pete standing up for Don and how Don, Pete and Peggy became almost friends heading towards the end
“You shouldn’t have done that.” is a nice line from Joan. I like that they give Cutler a beat to reflect, and maybe even feel a tinge of regret, because he was totally unshaken when Don was in his face just moments before.
Love how Joan lies about knowing about the letter.
Peggy’s statement that Cutler had bad breath has never left my mind.
i personally love how things have changed over the years. From the early days of being in the posh offices back when they were kings, now watching this where its just some little office space and they have their little offices like everyone else has. You don't just go up to the boss's floor and office, here they are like everyone else, just some small no nothing offices in the same area.
When they put Don on leave they had Chevy and thought they were too big to fail. Then they lost Chevy and they needed Burger Chef and suddenly Don wasn’t so bad.
Joan really overplayed her hand and misread this situation.
Sure, Don it’s a pain in the ass, but he did too much to the firm to lose all the support he had. Harry may have Ted support (he didn’t btw, because Ted agrees to go to McCann later), but Don still had Roger and Pete. And Bert, besides also not being happy with Don, was always an very skilled politician to go to war like that.
Also, she overvalued herself here. She was an office manager, whom was trying to be an accounts woman and was still learning. Don was a legend in the industry, even if he was fired he would choose his next job.
Eventually, her lack of loyalty to Don was her own downfall, because Roger sells the firm to cut Jim off and protect Don. And we all know who that turn out to Joan.
Also, Pete’s arc show how important it is to be loyal to the right people. He tried to overthrow Don with Roger and Bert, he was fired, then rehired and then laughed at by Cooper. He learned it was best to be loyal and that’s how he became a partner in SCDP instead of Ken, who was the Head of Accounts. And his career was meteoric after that.
Perhaps.
I see it as her staking out a position. She knew how the vote would go. It was a power move. Getting her thoughts out.
I say this based kn her last line to cutler
"You're a football player in a suit." Ouch!
Isn’t Joan wonderfully attractive
Joan. Such a complicated character. She loves Don... but business is business. Don't mess with her paper. She'll cut you.
She also probably got hurt when Don betrayed her by ending the the company's business with Jaguar.
@@JUNGLEsausage He cost her a million dollars. Business is business.
The whole loyalty thing from Peter to Don started when Roger convinced Pete that Don saved him job in earlier seasons.
Then Don helped Peter with 50 k to become a partner and after that Don was like a brother to him.
Add to that he always admired Don abilities and Pete was really like a hound when it camed to defending Don ass in 6 and 7 season
LOL, I keep forgetting that Jim Cutler is played by Harry-Let’s-Talk-About-The-Husband-Hamlin.
Cutler was a real bastard.
Cool glasses though!
It never ends does it. You never stop trying.
This scene makes it crystal clear that Secretaries don't make good business partners as they lack foresight. Don is the one on whom this agency sees the light of the day, every day. She caved in and fell prey to the Cutler's tactics to sideline Don. I would stick my neck out and say that Pete Campbell became Don's strongest ally alongside Roger Sterling. Joan found out at McCann firsthand how it is like to work in a big agency with dirty politics across the hierarchies. She made an error of judgment by going against Don. The man who runs the show at Sterling-Cooper-Draper-Price. Ted Chough is a one trick pony. Michael Ginsberg was a powerhouse of ideas. Ted Chough hasn't done anything noteworthy other than teaming up with Don for the Chevrolet pitch. Having said that, never bet against the agency's rain man. Joan realizes it at McCann's. I am speaking out of my agency experience. I have been mentored to go into the battle with the Creative Director vis-a-vis Boss.
If you put it in a more professional view, you're right! Although users like MMD try to justify Joan. I also don't justify Don because I always berated him for NOT telling his partners first what Herb tried to do because of his ego.
So disappointed from joan...
i'm on my 3rd MadMen rewatch,, come to think of it, the writers actually killed Bert cooper so that don would lose his vote which corners him into leaving the agency.. wow
Joan's character was tough to deal with. She slept with a client to get to 'partner' then pretends she's something of importance.
Jesus... It's always incredible to read these RUclips comments and see how many people didn't understand the show at all and think it's about "alpha Don and Roger" dealing with hippies and hoes. Joan proves how invaluable she is during the formation of the company as she is essentially the only one who understands the day to day operations of the company. Don, as Cutler pointed out, is literally a drunk bully who has amazing ad ideas and is often saved by Pete, Ruger or other miraculous turn of events that postpone his downfall. The show ends with Joan starting her own production company and Don contemplating suicide before he suddenly has one last great idea.
Isn't that what people in accounts do? Kenny gave up several body parts to the Chevy account.
Horse flesh?
What is going on with Pete’s hair?!
male pattern baldness
I wish don would have given it to cutler. I couldn’t stand that character.
what's with the fucking music
Are you a f*cking idiot ??
It was on the show no one added any music.
Joan. All of a sudden a savant. Peggy I get. But, the Joan later storyline was stupid and unbelievable.
Joan’s story arc is one of never being able to control her own circumstances. She is constantly the victim of other people trying to control her through their own actions, be it Roger, Don, Peggy, the Mcann deal, Pete, her husband, or just societal expectations for what is expected of an attractive female at that time. She was pissed because she was manipulated into sleeping with Herb to get the Jaguar account and then Don, from her perspective, selfishly fired Herb out of his own misplaced sense or chivalry (along with making a lot of other selfish mistakes) so that it was almost like she did it for nothing. It made sense to me that she would be resentful of him after that. It was clear from her resentment of Peggy when she tried to stick up for her earlier on that she doesn’t like when people do this claiming to help her when really it is out of their own desire to be the hero which in turn takes away her agency and makes her once again the victim of circumstance.
@@liamcragin Yeah no. Joan's arc was written to satisfy the feminist mob. Unrealistic and laughable that she went from a secretary banging the boss and random men to a partner.
@@dane4453lmfao
Joan's tired of Don "costing her money" by not sleeping with her.
Joan's tired of Don "costing her money" by being selfish, bringing up his personal issues at work, not caring about his partners, being drunk at work and fcking up clients meetings and contracts*
joan was really pathetic.
joan was such a snake and never got what she deserved .
Don was so selfish here*
Weird. I really ended up hating Joan.
To joan.... they a give you an inch but you took a mile and lost the race. OG Karen
Joan got worse and worse
When tired retread Harry Hamlin arrived on the show I checked out. He must have a fantastic agent.
Harry Hamlin was the worst, actor on this show. To rehearsed unnatural. The rest were brilliant.
I admire how Don and Pete had a better relationship in the end.
More so because Pete became a team player was for the company and for everyone else.
Don just did a lot of stuff ultimately for himself.
"I won't let you down, Don!"
-Peter Dyckman Campbell
Ken's face when Joan says to Harry "You're not a partner yet!" is killing me 😅 Kenny was too funny.
Never noticed before hahaha
"that is a very sensitive piece of horseflesh!"
ahahahaha, maybe Pete's line of the series
I really hated that Joan turned on Don like that. I liked her character a lot until that point.
It made sense though, every other partner was rich or had someone to fall back on. She was all alone in the world as a single mother. In the end, she still got screwed out of her share of the company too.
@@jtothey1993 if she didnt take Jims side she would still be an impactful partner, Jims power became too terrifying that everyone on Dons side had to find a helping hand before Jim pushes everyone out. Therefore the absorbance from McCann, which eventually forces her out with much less money compared to her time partnership at SCDP.
I dont blame her at the time of the Jaguar, but later on she kept using the sacrifice and victim excuses to be rightfully against Don is way too annoying and obnoxious. The partners never forced her on Jaguar, they even said she could still say no.
But she took the offer for a partnership, even for only 5%, it is still quite a lot for an experienced secrectary. Yet she still used it as an excuse so everyone cant blame her for her resent on Don.
She always acts strong and even expects people to get themselves together but when it suddenly comes to her problems she always let things loose. Remember when she wants someone to fire people she doesnt like using her appearance and gets mad when her demand isnt approved? Shes a hypocrite.
@@jtothey1993 She didn't get screwed. She got 50c on the dollar cash and didn't have to wait 3 years. That's an extremely reasonable deal for a private buyout.
@@colderplasma 50c on the dollar? Mailmen make more than that..
@@jtothey1993 She got 500k in late 1960s money. That's almost 4million today. I don't think mailmen make anything close to that.
I loved Joan until she started acting like she was entitled to ownership and say. She acted like she founded the company
She helped to found the new version of it
Mad Men could be tense and funny at the same time. "That is a very sensitive piece of horseflesh" lol "I'm tired of him costing me money", "he's a pain in the ass". Such Grade-A writing.
There are only a few moments in the show when someone says something to Don that cuts right to the heart of all his insecurities. Cutler lands one of those blows here. Danny lands the other, with “You’re just handsome.”
Hamlin is so great in the specific role as “casual ass."
Why did no one ever question Cutler automatically voting for Ted by proxy
That always really, really bothered me. Ted was an honorable man, he would've considered it with a lot more grace than this!
@@kirikoshiba4046 Unfortunately, that's what a proxy enables. The one who holds it can vote as they wish.
What I meant was, did anyone ever hear Ted give Cutler his vote by proxy? I don’t remember it ever happening, Cutler just seized it.
@@untexan if he didn't have Ted's proxy I'm sure one of the other partners would have challenged him when he tried to vote for him...
Oof Owie lmfao
I was done with Joan's character after that. Don was the only one against her sleeping with the guy from Jaguar.
But he was such a classy guy.
“Lemme see em”
Lane was against it too wasn’t he?
Don: You wanna' play parliamentary procedure? Let's play! Everyone who wants to get rid of him, raise your hand.
Cutler: Fine!! ((raises two hands)) I have Ted proxy.
Don: We can do that?
What was so fascinating is how everyone around Don that was against Don was painted as a villain, and the show made you sympathetic to Don....even though Don was absolutely the worst, most unprofessional person at his job any place he worked, LOL! Jim Butler was pretty much spot on with his Don assessment, yet we sympathize with Don.
Dons a strong silent type, very allegorical
Joan did not deserve to be in the position she was in. But she sure acted like she was
I disagree she was a great asset to the firm
Joan was in a tough position just by being a woman during that time period-maybe she couldn’t have gotten partner status a more ‘traditional’ way but that isn’t to say she didn’t deserve said status. Honestly the whole Jaguar thing was pretty embarrassing and I felt bad for her whenever it was brought up; but I was happy she eventually achieved partner status at all.
@@flyforce16 I feel the same way. Joan's not perfect (hell, no one in Mad Men is), but after everything that she did for the company, I'd say that she'd more than earned her place within the partners' inner circle.
Sure and if Don sleeps with his clients to control them, that’s allowed. Everyone played the cards they were dealt to their advantage. And you sound like a sexist piece of shit.
I would tell you why your wrong but I’m glad everyone already did.
Joan was cooler when she was sleeping with fat car dealer execs.
Cutler reminds me of an evil version of Cliff Main from Better Call Saul.
This show was done when hack harry hamlin showed up. Some aging holloywood agents did each other a favor and DESTROYED it by dumping hamlin on the show. It became cringeworthy with him in scens
Don fell the betray in joan.
And Joan felt Don's betrayal when he ignored what she had to do for that jaguar account and told Herb to fuck off.
@@ykMMD nahh, the victim card here fall, she want partnership, that was not for free. And not merit for that too.
Bricks blood It’s not really that simple. Go watch the show again lol.
@@ykMMD Ah you're everywhere in this comment section trying to defend Joan but let me make one thing clear. Joan had no talent at all. The only talent she had was sleeping with others to get what she wants and don was the only one who actually talked against it. Yeah maybe if she actually had some kind of talent then I would agree with you but the thing is that she's an absolutely talentless bitch. She had some nerve going against don like that considering that Don was the most genius individual in that room and Joan was the most worthless pile of crap. Peggy on the other hand was actually someone who deserved a partnership. Do you know why? Because she actually had some fucking talent.
@Mr Damage Seriously though by the end of the show it was only don, Peggy and pete who were actually talented and they were basically carrying the whole agency. Joan on the other hand was a talentless bitch. All she knew was whining and walking around the office flaunting herself.
Joan is for the streets
A lot of yelling and screaming involved, but I’m not hearing Frank Sobotka’s name in any of it!
I never respected Joan. All she did was lay on her back and she somehow fell into a partnership.
Well, if you had to fuck Herb, I'm sure you would want some $. Mostly to buy barf bags.
Blame pryce for that fuck up. All they were giving her was 50k
Don was the only one who was willing to hurt company to save Joan honour when other approved her sleeping with that fat dude and she knew that and she still wanted to ruin Don in 6 and 7 season until this episode.
Why?