Very very nice meta dudes Rpal Tier A - very good bro. TY I am a paladin who took 2.1k in 2s Top Paladin 1 - 2300. There are 3 paladins on europe who took more than 2k+. Druid's standing AFC under the LIFEBLOOM. Shaman doesn't healing. LD WD - contra. Lock Priest - very hard. 0 sustained damage. No luck on the super damage for a minute - shaman without mana. Thank you. I realized that I'm a noob. I'm gonna keep learning how to play. There are no paladins anywhere, because probably just no one knows how to play. I'm sorry. B Tyer - Rog Feral - Top 1 team now. Shaman+War 2.4-2.5k Shaman - Mage - 2.5k/ Shaman Rogue - 2.5k (But these are not sets. It's not setup) - okay. Thanks for the top very objective!
One thing on curse of tongues, Hpal gets around a 18-21% chance to resist warlock curses when you calculate the average resistance of a binary spell using 3/3 pure of heart and 70 shadow resist aura. Assuming the warlock isn't stacking spell pen on everything gem slot. This is like having the vanilla orc stun resist, which is kinda OP. And you can still hit 1300+healing in resil gear with 170 shadow resist turning that 18-21% into 40%. You also have 3/3 Blessed life which adds 10% more dmg reduction rolls to the 50% reduction portion of a non binary magic damage resistance roll (like dot damage ticks). It just shifts the rolls around so it doesnt violate 100% roll, and against binary spells it doesnt reduce damage (why some people thought it doesnt work on caster damage.)
That S+ tier is exactly why I rolled a Hunter. I don't know why Disc Hunt isn't on that list when it definitely should be, and will probably be better than HD in S1, but yeah... Mages, Priests, yummy yummy rating for a Hunter.
Surprised feral rogue was rated so lowly It’s actually got good matchups into every comp in the S+ tier, I’d just say it’s definitely very hard to play well and it will be quite rare to meet - that doesn’t mean it’s not a premium comp tho
I like 3s the most. It's the perfect balance between the cluster of 5s and the slow pace of 2s. Class imbalance shines more in 2s, that's why they removed the ability to get gladiator from it later on in the expansions. That being said... class imbalance shines the most in duels. All the major tournaments happen in 3s too. I also hate the 45 min healer/dps 2s games.
this list is totally wrong wrong. I've never fought most of those S tier team over 1800 rating it was just WAR/DURID 90% of the time and 10% of the time sl/sl+pally at 2200+ its 99% war/druid.
All healers became all about instant cast heals. It's kinda sickening as well, seeing as how healing is so overtuned in modern wow and has been for a while
I'm sorry but as someone who played TBC arena quite heavily back in OG, guys don't take this tier list as gospel. Let me elaborate; the top tier comps they've listed they aren't wrong about but they vastly undervalue the ability to compete of non-priest/Mage/rogue comps. Feels like a very biased list, which isn't what you want in a tier list.
You are kind of right for the wrong reasons. Your heavy arena experience from back in the day does not mean jack anymore, as the playerbase is not even remotely comprable to old days or even Pservers. Truth is: You will mainly see these comps listed here because everyone is minmaxing these days. You won't see many other comps in the absolute top % of the ladder, because if you are good enough to get there, 99% will get a team mate for their best comp possible instead of just playing whatever.
@@chocrikir655 the experience difference in general isn't as big a difference as you believe it to be, the game mechanics are no different now to what they were then, player experience won't change that. Funny enough people theory crafted and min/maxed back then too... But feel free to carry on with the passive aggressive tones bro, being angsty over someone's opinion just makes me chuckle
this is the best video ever, you literally explained the whole season 1 wish me luck guys, i may not have too much future because im not a Gnome Warrior, so no escape artist, but im going to try Orc Warrior and my gf is rolling Undead Priest, lets see if we can climb a bit! See you in 2s!
not sure what the author is smoking but Druid is the best healer in twos. Putting Mage/Priest in s+ but no druid/war or druid/lock who dominate 2s these times not even talking back then.
Shamans are at a huge disadvantage since all their heals outside of NS cooldown are a hard cast. It wasn't as big of a deal back in the day but the skill floor is way higher now you will get kicked/silenced almost every time.
@@Klierowski I picked mage in classic not cause OP or easy damage, but for free food and portals. Best choice ever Also ppl bad mouth mage a lot, but to be a good mage takes a lot more than it does for other classes. I've gone over 2k with hunter / warrior and priest, mage requires just as much skill to do well.. theres big difference between " a mage " and a " real mage". Mage and/or caster positioning is far more technical than other classes
@@biscuitsntea421 Yes my dear mage i can feel your pain. Sometimes it feels that free rng root procs, one of the few undispellable armors that slow movement and att spd (and can also proc the prev said root), bl-type cd, absorb shield, immunity, reset cds spell, 50% crit chance and x2 crit dmg passive, blanket cs and a free stun breaker (that also teleports you away from melee) are not enough to make this class worth playing!
@@ntastan Lol I get you, but seems you misread or misunderstood my comment I'm a main warrior/hunter and priest. I find it much easier to do well as a warrior or hunter for instance and there's a lot less to actually do, but yes mage is strong, it's just not as easy as ppl like to make out. Hunter is easier and in many ways so is warrior, but it doesn't make them "better", mage is still better Those all sound nice but a rogue still wins everytime and good luck killing a resto druid in 1v1, an felhunter locks and also bm hunter completely counters everything mage has too. Great class, my favourite thing is still the portals and free food 🤣 still a top tier pvp class an I don't think anyone can disagree there
Nah, honestly they just need to bring the CC synergy between those classes closer to other comps. A universal nerf would be over the top and not needed. The trouble is that RM comps and RMPs have SO many different DR CCs they can effectively keep a target locked out almost all game. Also, because they have so many MORE outs when in trouble than most comps do, it means making mistakes is way less punishing for mediocre teams, who do way better as a result sometimes than more skilled less CC heavy comps. They literally just need to balance their CC synergy to be more in line with other comps, wouldn't take much, just identify one area of CC that could take a hit without completely breaking the comps competitiveness and it's fixed.
It's like how warrior has almost exclusively been THE top tier tank throughout WoWs entirety. Sure, other tanks have been balanced to be MORE competitive, but Warriors have always been top MT choice. Why? Because their tanking toolkit has always been more well rounded, and their survival CDs better balanced to be rotatable as a result too. It took prot paladins at least 2 expansions was it? To get an actually usable mid length cool down Wall/Oh Shit button, something warriors had innately from day 1 with 11 points in prot. Druids similar. Mainly this was caused by early Dev favouritism and not liking hybrids (no, genuinely this was a petulant thing in the gaming industry lol). As a result, they've never really fully addressed the imbalances left from the early days, instead they've just applied the minimum bandaids to keep people playing. Exactly the same thing with RM/P.
I can comment on my TBC experience. I've been leveling 4 hours a day more or less, since I work and I'm married. I've done my best to grind as efficiently as possible and reached level 66 so far, but it's very difficult to reach 70, begin bg's, get good gear and play arena. You can't expect people to do so many and so complicated things at the same time, that's too much time invested. For people who reminisce the game, want to play pvp in general but have family's, retail is as foreign as speaking Chinese. It's strange, it's too meticulous and it has too many defensive cooldowns for each class. Instead of perfecting it as time goes by, they made it boring.
Same goes for me man, I’m level 66 as well still. I feel my love for this game slowly dying which is kind of sad considering I’ve played it damn near 14 years now lol
Fighting hunter druid was annoying as all hell unless you were really good with those trap reflects and your druids positioning for rooting the kill isn't up to scratch. BM hunter especially could be a royal pain in the anus, but then it always has been lol.
That's pretty lame S and S+ full of the beta male classes, the only two classes who have NEVER been bad or below A tier in any way. (talking mage and rogue)
@obrovský mozek Resto Shaman, Frost Mages, Holy Paladins, and Disc Priests were strong too. I played Disc and Hpal and loved it (although admittedly I played with a Mage partner :D ). Where are your friends playing Cata? Is Apollo still active?
My only complaint is that warlock Druid isn’t in S+ with the constant dmg from dots and pressure from Felhunter pet for the dispelled and counter spell/silence it’s a lot of pressure for healers no matter what you play and people might say oh the priest can mana burn but if u spec into Druid shift cost a lot less to shift and also warlock can mana burn and can’t get LoS once casted on I feel like that Druid lock should at least be put into S+ but they dropped it because there were to many there already and ran out of room
@@Superhyperkillerduck how does warrior shred lock Druid? U can cc the warrior so much he doesn’t get to play with cyclones roots and stuns u can even bait out a d-stance to land a fear have the Druid cast a rank 1 roots when he spell reflects as ya lock is casting a fear to u eat the spell reflect and the warrior gets feared in d-stance so he can’t break out and u burn priest so he’s oom Rogue is understandable but u can still outplay him most rogues go for blind then sap so u can bear before the blind so he can’t sap forcing a priest fear which u can trinket if needed and have lock casting fears or burning priest but also if you can go more in-depth about it maybe I can understand your point of view more
Yeah sPR should be doing pretty well but it will all revolve around how popular Warr and Hunt teams are. sPR gets farmed by the S+ tier which is pretty accurate in this video, which is the main reason why it can't be higher up. If there's enough Warriors in arena, sPR will get free glad every season. @Midnight Blue Also, the Mutilate thing is probably referring to the old Tuska and Boozt comp. Subtlety is much, much better. Assa rogue has almost no sticking power and can't get nearly as many resets, nor peel for his sP as much as a Sub rogue. Remember that Muti means they have no Shadowstep, which means they automatically lose to any Mage or Druid team. Plus, not being able to reset just denies the big advantage sP has over Mage, which is dispelling his Rogue for restealths.
@@bos7522 According to Boozt himself for Muti/Spriest combo Mage and Paladin teams were their hard counters, which were rarity on +2300 rating back then. I believe they were highest ranked ones 2700+ but there was also surprising factor in their success, no one expected it. I use to love playing Muti back in OG TBC, it was probably my most fun and favorite spec ever and also tried it again on private server and even though definitely has a lot of cons, man it is literally RDruid and Disco destroyer, it goes through them like hot knife through butter...very addictive😏
@@midnightblue1874 I can see an Undead sin Rogue absolutely deleting a dP in 1 Silence, but I don't think they're good into Druids at all unless it's against a HD team. At least not after all those years people have been playing TBC for. Mage counters both sP and sin Rogue pretty much all alone and it's not even close. Paladins will not be very common in arena whatsoever, sadly to say. Not until IQD opens and they get Vial of the Sunwell because they desperately need that to compete. I love that video, I remember watching it way back then and thinking how damn cool it was. I'm still to this day itching to make an sP alt. But the game has changed a lot since. There were so few sPR teams to begin with on AT realms, the most notable sP I can remember was Mystogan who got glad there pretty consistently but it was always alongside a sub Rogue or a frost Mage. sPR used to hard farm all the Warrior and Hunter teams on there pretty effectively no matter who their partners were, but often lost to Lock, Mage, and other Rogue teams. I mean it's entirely possible that sin Rogue with sP can clap all the Lock teams with such low resilience numbers, I don't have much experience with S1 at all so I don't really know how hard it'll be.
Warlock and shadow priest is good. Warrior isn’t A tier. Balance Druid pairs well with elemental shaman. I don’t think you guys know what you’re talking about?
I admit rogue is hella good in pvp but they absolutely do not have the highest sustain damage. They are easily locked down and energy starved half the time. They have good decent damage while stunning.
Sub rogues have by far the best uptime and consistent damage for the melee specs for the reasons the video stated. Gap closers, stuns, interrupts make rogues unkiteable unlike wars, ferals and enhance who do have some tools, but not the entire picture. You can't really properly lock down a sub rogue until you've eaten through his cooldowns, in which case it becomes an economy game where you hopefully have enough mana and stuff left to get you over the line. Like with life, one is none and two is one, meaning you don't have to stun or land a key ability on a rogue once because they'll always have the cloak/trinket you need to burn through it all and THEN be able to setup.
@@comfi9722 cloak works? I haven't been resisted by a single fear while using cloak. I've watched streamers and they get hit all the time through cloak. Ferals, warriors, and enhance don't need shit like that when they can walk about and one shot you. I see it all the time. One shotting is normal for warriors and shammies. I don't see rogues going around one shotting people.
@@trentoningram6136 I mean yeah, that's sorta the difference between burst damage melees like warriors and enhancement which have small but deadly windows of damage while rogues control and setup and swoop for a kill. Remember that you originally disagreed with the consensus that rogues were the melee with the best sustained damage, and you've sorta just ended up agreeing with that consensus just now.
LMAO i had to stop watching this video after they showed me mage/rogue being the best 2s comp.... rofl any decent healer/lock team will counter that... not to mention most healer/dps comps excluding healer/warr.... bad videos for bad players.. see you arenas scrubs
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u forgot about retri/rogue, warrior/shaman hpally/ench, hpally/slsl, double rogue sick to in s1
Shokadin/pom pyro
I like 2v2 the most. The only problem with this bracket is that i don't have enough friends to play it.
Underrated comment :D
Perfect
Super underated comment
ill be ur friend
😆
What about Shadow Priest and Lock?
Very very nice meta dudes Rpal Tier A - very good bro. TY I am a paladin who took 2.1k in 2s Top Paladin 1 - 2300. There are 3 paladins on europe who took more than 2k+. Druid's standing AFC under the LIFEBLOOM. Shaman doesn't healing. LD WD - contra. Lock Priest - very hard. 0 sustained damage. No luck on the super damage for a minute - shaman without mana. Thank you. I realized that I'm a noob. I'm gonna keep learning how to play. There are no paladins anywhere, because probably just no one knows how to play. I'm sorry. B Tyer - Rog Feral - Top 1 team now. Shaman+War 2.4-2.5k Shaman - Mage - 2.5k/ Shaman Rogue - 2.5k (But these are not sets. It's not setup) - okay. Thanks for the top very objective!
One thing on curse of tongues, Hpal gets around a 18-21% chance to resist warlock curses when you calculate the average resistance of a binary spell using 3/3 pure of heart and 70 shadow resist aura. Assuming the warlock isn't stacking spell pen on everything gem slot. This is like having the vanilla orc stun resist, which is kinda OP. And you can still hit 1300+healing in resil gear with 170 shadow resist turning that 18-21% into 40%.
You also have 3/3 Blessed life which adds 10% more dmg reduction rolls to the 50% reduction portion of a non binary magic damage resistance roll (like dot damage ticks). It just shifts the rolls around so it doesnt violate 100% roll, and against binary spells it doesnt reduce damage (why some people thought it doesnt work on caster damage.)
Only skimmed but 70 pen is the average lock gearing direction and will be higher for some so that eats away at the buff
@@pottyputter05 yea through gem slots right? Maybe a ring or two
That S+ tier is exactly why I rolled a Hunter. I don't know why Disc Hunt isn't on that list when it definitely should be, and will probably be better than HD in S1, but yeah... Mages, Priests, yummy yummy rating for a Hunter.
Isn't rogue druid one of the best comps later on? Multiple people breaking 2400 back in the day with that comp
Surprised feral rogue was rated so lowly
It’s actually got good matchups into every comp in the S+ tier, I’d just say it’s definitely very hard to play well and it will be quite rare to meet - that doesn’t mean it’s not a premium comp tho
That's because as I've commented above just now, this list is filled with the bias of their preferred cheese comps.
I like 3s the most. It's the perfect balance between the cluster of 5s and the slow pace of 2s. Class imbalance shines more in 2s, that's why they removed the ability to get gladiator from it later on in the expansions. That being said... class imbalance shines the most in duels. All the major tournaments happen in 3s too. I also hate the 45 min healer/dps 2s games.
Warrior + Holy pala?
this list is totally wrong wrong. I've never fought most of those S tier team over 1800 rating it was just WAR/DURID 90% of the time and 10% of the time sl/sl+pally at 2200+ its 99% war/druid.
Long live skill capped
mage/hunter left out of this, why? :p what im playing 2v2, and have lots of funn, and feels like its a strong comp vs most team we meat
To think that Holy Paladins went from having almost no instant cast heals, to being all about instant cast heals.
All healers became all about instant cast heals. It's kinda sickening as well, seeing as how healing is so overtuned in modern wow and has been for a while
2s because it requires less friends
I'm sorry but as someone who played TBC arena quite heavily back in OG, guys don't take this tier list as gospel.
Let me elaborate; the top tier comps they've listed they aren't wrong about but they vastly undervalue the ability to compete of non-priest/Mage/rogue comps.
Feels like a very biased list, which isn't what you want in a tier list.
You are kind of right for the wrong reasons. Your heavy arena experience from back in the day does not mean jack anymore, as the playerbase is not even remotely comprable to old days or even Pservers. Truth is: You will mainly see these comps listed here because everyone is minmaxing these days. You won't see many other comps in the absolute top % of the ladder, because if you are good enough to get there, 99% will get a team mate for their best comp possible instead of just playing whatever.
@@chocrikir655 the experience difference in general isn't as big a difference as you believe it to be, the game mechanics are no different now to what they were then, player experience won't change that.
Funny enough people theory crafted and min/maxed back then too...
But feel free to carry on with the passive aggressive tones bro, being angsty over someone's opinion just makes me chuckle
Great video as always. Keep it up!
Rogue Mage Priest making their mark already
Rogue.rogue.rogue.rogue.rogue+any+rogue 5v5 best comp 5 ROGUES
hmm I'm missing hunter/disc .... would put it into S tier.
im missing my hunter and my mage partner here. atleast at lower skill lvl i find it quite good
this is the best video ever, you literally explained the whole season 1
wish me luck guys, i may not have too much future because im not a Gnome Warrior, so no escape artist, but im going to try Orc Warrior and my gf is rolling Undead Priest, lets see if we can climb a bit! See you in 2s!
It’s impressive that you can play a priest ad warrior with 1 hand each
@@conorf8091 so what? do you want everyone to play always the same classes just because they are hard to play?
nice ego you have over there lol
@@ismaeldeleija8165 /whoosh 😛 🎣
@@ismaeldeleija8165 you really missed the joke huh lol...
@@ante2629 no shit sherlock, then why you dont better tell me what is it?
I didn't play TBC but I'm very surprised that there is no arms hpal on the list
why is rogue spec not labeled in s+ tier? does that mean any spec is viable? at 4:19
Im a sub rogue paired with a ret (Scooby Doo). Curious to see where this team is placed :)
so for phase 3/4 what are the best comps? and why is it different?
not sure what the author is smoking but Druid is the best healer in twos. Putting Mage/Priest in s+ but no druid/war or druid/lock who dominate 2s these times not even talking back then.
very nice!
What is the name of this addon which shows all usefull enemy's skills info?
OmniCD is what I use
Wasn't warlock + druid the absolute top in original TBC? Players with that comp had way higer rating than mage/priest/rouge
It’s a lot easier to play but people nowadays can play rmp to perfection
Warrior + restoshaman are missing? -_-
They are sleeping on resto shaman + warrior
They will be soon :)
@@evovii24 Sleeping on Resto Sham + Ret too
Shamans are at a huge disadvantage since all their heals outside of NS cooldown are a hard cast. It wasn't as big of a deal back in the day but the skill floor is way higher now you will get kicked/silenced almost every time.
@@anonlukes5447 but they got, purge,BL, WF, kick, grounding
Hard to decide between 2v2 and 3v3. Don't like as much as 5v5 but it's still better than RBG's
5v5 was literally the worst bracket in history. The arenas are just way too small for that.
Only 6 viable comps that didn’t have a priest mage or rogue in it
@@Klierowski I picked mage in classic not cause OP or easy damage, but for free food and portals. Best choice ever
Also ppl bad mouth mage a lot, but to be a good mage takes a lot more than it does for other classes. I've gone over 2k with hunter / warrior and priest, mage requires just as much skill to do well.. theres big difference between " a mage " and a " real mage".
Mage and/or caster positioning is far more technical than other classes
@@Klierowski I knew that was coming 😅 deadly serious though..
I wanna go back to warrior for arenas.
@@biscuitsntea421 Yes my dear mage i can feel your pain. Sometimes it feels that free rng root procs, one of the few undispellable armors that slow movement and att spd (and can also proc the prev said root), bl-type cd, absorb shield, immunity, reset cds spell, 50% crit chance and x2 crit dmg passive, blanket cs and a free stun breaker (that also teleports you away from melee) are not enough to make this class worth playing!
@@ntastan Lol I get you, but seems you misread or misunderstood my comment
I'm a main warrior/hunter and priest.
I find it much easier to do well as a warrior or hunter for instance and there's a lot less to actually do, but yes mage is strong, it's just not as easy as ppl like to make out. Hunter is easier and in many ways so is warrior, but it doesn't make them "better", mage is still better
Those all sound nice but a rogue still wins everytime and good luck killing a resto druid in 1v1, an felhunter locks and also bm hunter completely counters everything mage has too.
Great class, my favourite thing is still the portals and free food 🤣 still a top tier pvp class an I don't think anyone can disagree there
the discord server invite link no longer works.
I really hate that RMP and in 2s RM has been S+ since arena has been released. CC should share universal DR.
Nah, honestly they just need to bring the CC synergy between those classes closer to other comps. A universal nerf would be over the top and not needed.
The trouble is that RM comps and RMPs have SO many different DR CCs they can effectively keep a target locked out almost all game.
Also, because they have so many MORE outs when in trouble than most comps do, it means making mistakes is way less punishing for mediocre teams, who do way better as a result sometimes than more skilled less CC heavy comps.
They literally just need to balance their CC synergy to be more in line with other comps, wouldn't take much, just identify one area of CC that could take a hit without completely breaking the comps competitiveness and it's fixed.
It's like how warrior has almost exclusively been THE top tier tank throughout WoWs entirety. Sure, other tanks have been balanced to be MORE competitive, but Warriors have always been top MT choice.
Why? Because their tanking toolkit has always been more well rounded, and their survival CDs better balanced to be rotatable as a result too.
It took prot paladins at least 2 expansions was it? To get an actually usable mid length cool down Wall/Oh Shit button, something warriors had innately from day 1 with 11 points in prot.
Druids similar. Mainly this was caused by early Dev favouritism and not liking hybrids (no, genuinely this was a petulant thing in the gaming industry lol).
As a result, they've never really fully addressed the imbalances left from the early days, instead they've just applied the minimum bandaids to keep people playing.
Exactly the same thing with RM/P.
Does anyone know the NamePlate add
@4:24 ? It’s so pretty looking
When you guys change this music?
What about warrior sword spec and rsham?
So what season do rdruid pick up and match/surpass disc priests? Or are they always outclassed by priest
S3 will be a very good season for druids, especially in 2v2
It's good now this list is biased and these experts are dumb as shit..
@@phailpoet1651 It's good, just not as good as disc priest
@@Superhyperkillerduck lmaooo 🙊
I can comment on my TBC experience. I've been leveling 4 hours a day more or less, since I work and I'm married. I've done my best to grind as efficiently as possible and reached level 66 so far, but it's very difficult to reach 70, begin bg's, get good gear and play arena.
You can't expect people to do so many and so complicated things at the same time, that's too much time invested. For people who reminisce the game, want to play pvp in general but have family's, retail is as foreign as speaking Chinese. It's strange, it's too meticulous and it has too many defensive cooldowns for each class. Instead of perfecting it as time goes by, they made it boring.
Same goes for me man, I’m level 66 as well still. I feel my love for this game slowly dying which is kind of sad considering I’ve played it damn near 14 years now lol
mage priest gets absolutely shit on by lock druid, defo not s+
all teams have hard counters, so just because mage priest get shit on by lock druid dosent make it less of a s+ team
@@goldeneagle256 it is not a hard counter, it is unplayable and lock druid is a popular comp
No ret enhance???
infernal gladiator title from tbc??? is this script even checked or does this guy just auto pilot his way through it lol
My favorite is 2s :3
Where is hunter priest?
"leave your pally unable to play the game"
Lol!
Just starting to watch the video. 99% sure i won’t find anything new. Decent vid tho!
Wtf are those addons that track trinket and important enemy spell cooldown?
It’s called omnibar
AS/Sting hunter will be on the top of the chain food.
As?
Double pom pyro mage?
Pom pyro mage + ele shaman baby
I hit glad as a Holy Pally with a Warrior partner. Hated every fucking second of it. Never again lol
After watching this guy for a while, I can tell he hates warriors
Putting hunter/rdruid at the same level as war/rdruid is confusing at the very least.
Fighting hunter druid was annoying as all hell unless you were really good with those trap reflects and your druids positioning for rooting the kill isn't up to scratch.
BM hunter especially could be a royal pain in the anus, but then it always has been lol.
Crying in warrior 😢
Warrior, Sh priest.
Warrior Rogue
Warrior RDrood
You guys done goof BM hunter priest is a god teir comp.
That's pretty lame S and S+ full of the beta male classes, the only two classes who have NEVER been bad or below A tier in any way. (talking mage and rogue)
@ISitOn MyArm so I'm guessing you're one of those beta males... 😂
@ISitOn MyArm lol bro you are really deep in your feelings
@ISitOn MyArm 🤣🤣🤣
Wtf? Where is retribution + sub rogue?
S4 rog/rog or rog/feral is S tier, locks aren't competitive vs melee in S4 in 2s.
TLDR: mage/lock/rogue+disc/rdruid :0
In s3+ it would be anyclass+rdru
15+ years later, you guys sick of how op rogues are?
@obrovský mozek spot on, but I prefer cata over Wotlk/MoP
@obrovský mozek Resto Shaman, Frost Mages, Holy Paladins, and Disc Priests were strong too. I played Disc and Hpal and loved it (although admittedly I played with a Mage partner :D ).
Where are your friends playing Cata? Is Apollo still active?
Sometimes you wonder why blizzard even made paladins in the start.
You will learn at woltk classic
My only complaint is that warlock Druid isn’t in S+ with the constant dmg from dots and pressure from Felhunter pet for the dispelled and counter spell/silence it’s a lot of pressure for healers no matter what you play and people might say oh the priest can mana burn but if u spec into Druid shift cost a lot less to shift and also warlock can mana burn and can’t get LoS once casted on I feel like that Druid lock should at least be put into S+ but they dropped it because there were to many there already and ran out of room
All rogue healer and warrior healer teams just shred druid warlocks.
@@Superhyperkillerduck how does warrior shred lock Druid? U can cc the warrior so much he doesn’t get to play with cyclones roots and stuns u can even bait out a d-stance to land a fear have the Druid cast a rank 1 roots when he spell reflects as ya lock is casting a fear to u eat the spell reflect and the warrior gets feared in d-stance so he can’t break out and u burn priest so he’s oom
Rogue is understandable but u can still outplay him most rogues go for blind then sap so u can bear before the blind so he can’t sap forcing a priest fear which u can trinket if needed and have lock casting fears or burning priest but also if you can go more in-depth about it maybe I can understand your point of view more
Wheres Sub Shadow its S.
Isn't Mutilate better with Spriest?
@@midnightblue1874 no
Yeah sPR should be doing pretty well but it will all revolve around how popular Warr and Hunt teams are. sPR gets farmed by the S+ tier which is pretty accurate in this video, which is the main reason why it can't be higher up. If there's enough Warriors in arena, sPR will get free glad every season.
@Midnight Blue Also, the Mutilate thing is probably referring to the old Tuska and Boozt comp. Subtlety is much, much better. Assa rogue has almost no sticking power and can't get nearly as many resets, nor peel for his sP as much as a Sub rogue. Remember that Muti means they have no Shadowstep, which means they automatically lose to any Mage or Druid team. Plus, not being able to reset just denies the big advantage sP has over Mage, which is dispelling his Rogue for restealths.
@@bos7522 According to Boozt himself for Muti/Spriest combo Mage and Paladin teams were their hard counters, which were rarity on +2300 rating back then. I believe they were highest ranked ones 2700+ but there was also surprising factor in their success, no one expected it. I use to love playing Muti back in OG TBC, it was probably my most fun and favorite spec ever and also tried it again on private server and even though definitely has a lot of cons, man it is literally RDruid and Disco destroyer, it goes through them like hot knife through butter...very addictive😏
@@midnightblue1874 I can see an Undead sin Rogue absolutely deleting a dP in 1 Silence, but I don't think they're good into Druids at all unless it's against a HD team. At least not after all those years people have been playing TBC for.
Mage counters both sP and sin Rogue pretty much all alone and it's not even close. Paladins will not be very common in arena whatsoever, sadly to say. Not until IQD opens and they get Vial of the Sunwell because they desperately need that to compete.
I love that video, I remember watching it way back then and thinking how damn cool it was. I'm still to this day itching to make an sP alt. But the game has changed a lot since. There were so few sPR teams to begin with on AT realms, the most notable sP I can remember was Mystogan who got glad there pretty consistently but it was always alongside a sub Rogue or a frost Mage. sPR used to hard farm all the Warrior and Hunter teams on there pretty effectively no matter who their partners were, but often lost to Lock, Mage, and other Rogue teams.
I mean it's entirely possible that sin Rogue with sP can clap all the Lock teams with such low resilience numbers, I don't have much experience with S1 at all so I don't really know how hard it'll be.
Warlock(SLSL) anything = s-Tier
Where is Rshaman+Warrior? oO
down in L tier :P
Feral/Rogue could be S easily. It requires more skills fore sure.
only have enough friends for 2v2....
Warlock and shadow priest is good. Warrior isn’t A tier. Balance Druid pairs well with elemental shaman. I don’t think you guys know what you’re talking about?
What about Ele shaman, Destro Lock?
To easy to LoS or spell lock out
3v3 def the best
2vs2
ruclips.net/video/8btBV8w_n30/видео.html - a brand new rogue class just because ROGUES!
BRING BACK 5V5 TO RETAIL!!!!
No mention of resto sham rogue? Your funeral!
I admit rogue is hella good in pvp but they absolutely do not have the highest sustain damage. They are easily locked down and energy starved half the time. They have good decent damage while stunning.
Sub rogues have by far the best uptime and consistent damage for the melee specs for the reasons the video stated. Gap closers, stuns, interrupts make rogues unkiteable unlike wars, ferals and enhance who do have some tools, but not the entire picture.
You can't really properly lock down a sub rogue until you've eaten through his cooldowns, in which case it becomes an economy game where you hopefully have enough mana and stuff left to get you over the line.
Like with life, one is none and two is one, meaning you don't have to stun or land a key ability on a rogue once because they'll always have the cloak/trinket you need to burn through it all and THEN be able to setup.
@@comfi9722 cloak works? I haven't been resisted by a single fear while using cloak. I've watched streamers and they get hit all the time through cloak. Ferals, warriors, and enhance don't need shit like that when they can walk about and one shot you. I see it all the time. One shotting is normal for warriors and shammies. I don't see rogues going around one shotting people.
@@trentoningram6136 I mean yeah, that's sorta the difference between burst damage melees like warriors and enhancement which have small but deadly windows of damage while rogues control and setup and swoop for a kill.
Remember that you originally disagreed with the consensus that rogues were the melee with the best sustained damage, and you've sorta just ended up agreeing with that consensus just now.
LMAO i had to stop watching this video after they showed me mage/rogue being the best 2s comp.... rofl any decent healer/lock team will counter that... not to mention most healer/dps comps excluding healer/warr.... bad videos for bad players.. see you arenas scrubs
He just has no idea about tbc 2s
Sadge paladins.