mk2 ST owner here, Ive owned 2 dating back to early 2015, my current one ive owned for 4 years now, highly modded including the block mod done in late 2018 - also my block mod was done without re-boring the cylinders and ive not had issues since, plus its running a lot more power now than it was back then. Id say theres a bunch of factors, mirroring what some comments have already mentioned: pop n bang maps are unfortunately becoming more common, this is related to the type of owner that can only afford these cars when theyre being valued at £2500-5k range; the leggy examples with patchy service history, which then get passed onto owners who dont do basic maintenance on them or skimp on spurious service parts. Engine being ragged from cold im sure causes liner failures and possibly bearing failure? Oil grade/spec - there are tuners who recommend 0w40 oil for tuned mk2 STs, when ford recommends 5w30; ive talked to an expert who recommended 10w40 or 10w60 specifically in order to avoid bearing failure. The size of the standard turbo is tiny and theres a couple of big name tuners in the uk whos remaps push the turbo to its absolute maximum; in some cases with actuators turned up too high in order to meet the tuners claimed dyno figures; i.e. over 21 psi is dangerous on the standard turbo and ive seen spectacular rod failure from it. Oil system - related to what i said about basic maintenance not being done or skimped on; combine a cheap remap with an oil filter housing thats leaking/misting oil or the in/out ports are clogged due to lack of regular oil changes. The age of the cars doesnt help ancillary engine parts either;- deteriorating coolant hoses are naturally becoming more common, a mate had rapid coolant loss on track with his and lost the engine because of it. Unfortunately the mk2 STs have a negative reputation in the UK but I can assure you its not the same in other countries. Its a reliable and strong engine (certaily more robust and better designed than any of the mk3 st/rs engines onwards) but i would say these failures are largely due to the value of the cars being so low and attainable to undesirable youth owners in the uk.
Totally agree with everything you've written. Use quality parts and fuel, service it regularly, let it warm up and down and it'll be as reliable as anything else.
I worked in an engine test bay for a well know lubricant company. We took great care with making sure the test replicated the environment the engine would sit in. We would experience hot spots in a block or various components. Servicing of the engine was important, within certain manufacturers environments the oil would degrade faster. Where one engine environment the oil would be within specs 5K above service milage another would be out of spec in 2K. The environment the engine is in plays a really big role.
In all Car Handbooks it tells you what the Oil Change interval under, "Normal driving conditions" ... then there's also the Change Interval under 'Severe driving conditions' .. Normal driving conditions could be likened to you're steady / Normal motorway driving where as, frequent Stop /Start driving short hard runs and even not allowing the engine to come back down back to normal by idling, could even be called as 'severe driving' on these older cars, thinking the biggest problem with older engines Over heating could maybe those Old Radiators ...changing same to an upgraded higher Volume and better triple Air Flow Rad might be the way to go, thermostats fail very rarely and do so mainly when they don't open on a freezing cold day, even a Coolant drain and black flushing the rad and cleaning out the rad Fins and new Coolant Pump could help, somewhat more serious one could be another Nuclear option a performance high capacity Oil Cooler which takes maybe an extra litre oil ...lastly the DAMAGE over the previous years could well have already been done...
I used to buy shell Thornton research cars and they were interesting , high miles engines dropped into new cars and ran on new oils and fuels and going back to the 80’s new escort Mexicos a pal bought 2 with old engines in and the new one taken out when on delivery miles ..like I say weird what shell did researching
I’m no mechanic but I used to be in the motor trade a long time ago. My gut feeling is that the problems may originate from the different nature and driving/maintenance attitudes of Volvo and Ford performance customers. You’re much more likely to come across an ST/RS that has been driven up to, and beyond, its engine performance parameters. When the engines are manufactured the tolerances sometimes don’t allow for much if any deviation from maintenance schedules and consumables. Wander away from the requirements and you get rapid deterioration. The oil issues really suggest to me that the standard oil pump/system is a bit suspect when the car is driven at its limits and physical forces are working against the pump. I don’t care what owners say these Fords lead an almost exclusively hard life, more so than a ‘standard’ car. The current 1.0 eco boost Fords are also garnering a reputation for failure. I believe that both engines need meticulous maintenance for reliability. The ‘slack’ in manufacturing tolerances is being cut in the name of efficiency.
My friend owns a Volvo Dealership, and he and his wife don't drive Volvo's, and he said to me that; he wouldn't buy one. What more of an endorsement do you need! Personally, there's two simply words that sums this up; *Poor Engineering!* The excuse about an engine warping the more cylinder it has (leading to failure) ... well .... go tell that to the 2jz crowd or the Nissan DET crowd, and they'll wet themselves laughing. Like all the excuses that fanboys attempt to come up with, be it Ford or BMW ... two of the most disgraceful engine builders in the world ... it comes down to, Poor Engineering!
I speak with experience when I say the volvo and ST are 2 completley different cars and have 2 completely different owners. The ST and RS are cars that are screaming performance and owners squeeze or wish to squeeze so much more power out of them. The issue is the liners flex and give up the ghost IE there is no flex in the head gasket so it blows and then the head warps then if you factor in the extreme boost some of these cars are tuned to the head will warp. I explained before I have dealt with around 100+ of these cars in the workshop and they all have the same issue. Some of the owners dont service them and run them on a budget hence the car is not warmed up correctly before giving full boost and hence the gaskets fail. I put alot of the issues with these engines down to the movement caused by the flexing and of course most of these cars are over 10years old and I would advise anyone buying one to factor in a head rebuild with new gaskett and block mod at 100,000 miles.if anything the block mod will stop the flexing of the liners and protect the headgasket. You will be supprised the amount of cars we have that had tuning done to the extreme without any modifications done to the engine. Remember the RS version of the volvo engine has more forged internals than the ST yet owners want the same power as the RS. Best of luck with the channel and please bear in mind you will see more and more of these engines come in due to the age of the car now. For info the RS engine is coded YZDA and the ST is coded HYDA I am a Ford Engineer of 28 years Terry
@@TheMxrrab Yes and new head gasket! In fairness the head should be skimmed with new valve stem oil seals! along with block mod and this will prolong the life massively! The big ends blow due to lack of service and old style fuel filter housing! Ford and volvo modified the filter housing as the early ones suffered diaphram failure within the housing you see these engines use a PCV (positive crankcase ventillation) system and when the diaphram splits you get terminal damage as the pressure is not recycled and hence the gases cannot escape! you can diagnose this issue by whistling sound high pitched and this sounds dissapears when you remove the oil dipstick! In a nut shell! service service service the damn engine regulary and dont dont dont thrash car before warming up to operating temperature then you will have a great car!
@@tracieoliver2307 i basically purchased a 225 with rod knock for cheap. Engine will be coming out shortly for a complete resto. I had heard of the oil filter previously so will stick it on my list. The car came with some good history serviced every 5k or less so it will be interesting to see what’s actually caused the knock. I just wasn’t sure if the block mod was vital on a standard engine (it will be kept standard). Appreciate the advice 👍🏻
@@TheMxrrab Yes great try to get the uprated oil filter housing ending in 5 on the serial number on the filter black plasting cover as they are the revised housing
Where ford in there wisdom decided to bore the engine to 2.5 from 2.3 made the liners thinner which then made them weaker and they didn't add any reinforcement, adding the shims adds some strength back to the top of the liners where they are prone to crack. Tim Williams does the block mod on the 2.3 & 2.5 engines and has done for many, many years. The liners cracking isn't such an issue on the RS as they had plasma coated liners so you only see these cracking under high horse power, the ST on the other hand it doesn't seem to matter if its a standard car that has been rigorously maintained or one that has had hell from day 1 they all crack liners and with them getting on in age and mileage your going to see more and more. Some say the block mod doesn't work, some say it does but it all depends when the shims are installed, if the bores are already oval then adding the shims won't benefit as much if the liners are not then honed but have the shims installed when the liners aren't to the point of needing honing then the shims do help to give some strength back to the top of the liners where these are prone to crack.
In my experience , lack of servicing, warm up/cool down, coolant leaks from shit hoses. Biggest issues I'm seeing st the moment are water pump failures with people using after market water pumps. As for the comment regarding blocks mod I dont agree with it being a waste of time. The only cars I've ever seen crack a liner are those that are not shimmed, Also remember these issues are only only inherant on the ST. The RS came with Plasma coated liners and much shallower coolant slots in the top of the deck, I've only ever seen 2 crack which were both 600+ bhp engines ran dry of coolant. 👍 I highly rate the cars/ engines as you'll see from some of my uploaded videos. They are a force to be reckoned with (skip the headgasket failure one though) 😉
Glad to see someone who knows these engines well in the comments here, theres too many trying to blame the block mod for cylinder liner ovalling. Interesting point you made about the spurious water pumps, I'd bet thats becoming more common as the values of the STs has already dropped so low.
I work in a cylinder head shop and have seen many of theses 5 cylinder heads over the last couple of years .They have usually been cooked and are no longer flat to the point where the valves are no longer seating requiring a full rebuild and shim job ,Also seem to suffer from premature ex valve guide wear .
The Block Mod is done on the Volvo 2.5ltr engine because the cast in steel bore liner is much thinner than the 2.4ltr and can crack between the cylinders. Adding the shim adds reinforcement it that area.
Im pretty sure they do different sizes of shims as per the sizes of the gaps in the bores. Im also sure some do modify the tops of the liners with a weld in girdle. Semi closed decks have caused problems for other manufacturers before so its not a specific Volvo/Ford issue. Ive got an St at 310 bhp, block modded in 2018 at dreamscience, my mate has an rs engined St at 425, block modded in 2012, has been fine. I think the pop and bang maps that most run really dont do them any favours along with ham fisted owners. Great cars and such a characterful engine.
when i did the block mod on a rs conversion the shims were all the same thickness , the gaps between the liners were all different and when i contacted the shop i got the mod kit off they said not to worry . It was running a 420 map for 2 years after i built it up with no problems .
I probably discovered why this happen.... (Sorry for my English) The problem is the exaust manifold... The gas exaust have e serious restriction before going out into the downpipe. All the 5 cilinder gas exaust, flow into a small hole in the turbo and that cause a very high temperature in all the head engine. This is a very bad restriction for the gas... In a track day the gas temperature reached 980°C.... That's crazy, with a good revo stage 4 remap and all the parts upgraded. I modified the stock exaust manifold to eliminate more then possible this restriction, seems that works good. 20.000 miles with trackdays also and all still good! I can sand you photos if you need it
A crank bending as you describe is way more likely to affect main bearings, not big ends. I can see how ovalised bores could possibly affect a big end, but the tolerances would have to be very close to matter and there would be more damage likely to the piston and bore itself. If the same cylinder's big end goes on all motors, I'd be checking the oil passages through the crank and block. For instance: a motor I know well is the Hemi six in Aussie Valiants- when they blow, its always number 2 which is 2nd furthest from the oil pump. Never seen a blown up Hemi that wasn't.
2017 focus RS owner here. I got mine in Dec of 2019. It had about 22k miles when I got it. The car is mostly if not completely stock. I've never modified it. To me, it was a lot of fun as is and I do daily the car but I don't trash it. I love to do some spirited driving but nothing crazy. I do maintenance on the car every 6 months and don't put a lot of miles on the car even though it is my daily. It's almost at 36k miles on it now and I've not had any engine trouble at all. In fact, the only thing unusual about mine that may not be in other RS cars is that the drive modes disable when it gets cold. I just figured every car had it's gremlins. I thought about modifying the car but I don't think I will. Anyway, just wanted to throw my personal experience with mine out there.
I’ve got a 06, 330bhp, 140k miles on original engine with block mod done. Owned since 2015 & serviced every 5000 genuinely been the most reliable car I’ve ever owned
Mine and my wifes ST225 has just hit 167,000 miles, one previous owner and orginal engine. Block mod done and has been a reliable daily so far. I've kept it well away from track days and car park meets 🙂🤷♂️
As another multiple 850r owner, don't tar volvo with these issues. :) the original 2.3 t5 built under volvo ownership was bullet proof even on its basic engine management in stock and tuned form. Once ford bought volvo things went downhill.
Correct. Volvo took the 2.3 upto 2.4 litres, but never to 2.5 litres for the high pressure turbo T5 or R's because they knew the liners weren't stable enough to reliably run at that output level. You will commonly see P2 V70 T5 ex police cars at way over 250+k having been re- mapped by the new civilian owner never had the cylinder head off. Remember these engines were in a heavy estate car and being run at higher loads more of the time than a lightweight 5 door hatchback and they still almost never give any bother. The quality of the machine work in them is clear to see. Ford cheapened the 'short' block version as they never expected Focus ST's to be still going after 130k miles as they'd have been in the shrubbery before that. Block stiffness and heat management is woeful by comparision.
@@timbo19751975 That is not correct. The RS engines that Ford modified are bulletproof. And the ST-versions that can suffer from cracked liners due to poor maintenance of people ragging the shit out of them is not due to Ford "cheapening" anything, as the Focus ST/Mondeo/Kuga/S-Max 2.5 engines came straight from Volvo and were of Volvo design.
@@Nakke144 Ford bought the castings then had them made in china. I worked in endurance testing on ford, even brand-new blocks came in with a higher compression in one bore, due to chinese piston incorrectly machined. Ford= made in china, at the cheapest price.
Back in my day x flow engines where being thrashed about ,i rebuilt 7 xf engines in my mums shed and had everything reground back to good metal and everything honed ,ten year old cars are being put in the hands of the pop bang generation 👍
I am sure the Volvos were 2.3ltr and the ST/RS is a 2.5, so the bores are thinner and less strength, which may explain bore cracks, ovality and strength being less with the Ford versions. Had my ST when it was 3 yrs old and had it Mountuned and tweeked and was a great engine. Sounded great and was sad to see it go, but they are getting on a bit now and as said by others, the ST is worth buttons now and ends up on the redline by lots of baseball hat wearing current owners, which will kill them quicker. They dont like to be thrashed from cold either. Enjoy the channel , thanks for the time you give.
Not quite correct. The 850 T5’s were 2.3 but the engine Ford used of the Volvo series in the Focus ST/RS was the same as the C30/S40/V50 T5 Volvo’s and this was the 2.5 5cyl engine. Some typical Ford cost cutting along the way especially in the early days with the head gasket etc…. Time has gone by and I forget some specifics but I believe the Volvo T5 engine cylinders are not left free floating and have joining bars at top of cylinder to engine case? I’d have to look through back pictures to confirm this. Either way the T5 is a superb engine but the older 2.3 T5 engine was more tuneable block. 👍🏻
Open deck block has no support for the tops of the bore , once the squeeze is turned up it all starts moving around. We can look to the Lima four solid deck construction the turbo coupes ran .
Westwood liners, good map, good fuel, good oil, warm up cool down, no issues with no block mod 300bhp ST, block modded 320bhp, 460bhp no block modded RS engine (jzda, different engine to ST) they had shallower gaps between the liners, which is basically half a block mod from factory. Bare in mind these are 15 years old, gaskets aren’t for life 🥺 just like the rubber coolant hoses.
Knew one to break a rod on the freeway due to big end. Had been serviced with generic oil filters to distance not time. Had been sitting for ages. Suspicous that the generic filter had degraded, allowing chunks to clog galleries. Cant say for sure as i didnt get to inspect the dead block. They also seem to have a habit of injesting unfiltered air somehow, i think usually a degraded hose to the turbo, wearing out the turbo and other internals. I got an oil test and saw highly elevated levels of silica and wear metals. Completely standard using all genuine fluids and filters and top shelf oil. Im glad i got rid of mine to be honest.
HAHA, I've owned several "VOLVO" T5's always get them remapped as the standard Volvo map is a bit tame, (Just a mild stage 1 map to improve driveability, nothing Insane) Never had a problem with any of them. I suspect Ford may have taken the engine and figured out a way to make them more cheaply, Also when Ford took them over I suspect emissions control may have notched up a few degrees which maybe puts more stress on the engines? All the T5's harp back to the 2.3 with thicker liners, these are a very hardy engine, It's a shame they couldn't have stuck with those liners, I suspect the size was increased again for emissions? but I'm no expert.
Not sure what you mean by emissions control, but the fords do have an added ignition cut as standard on their ecus. Something which has unfortunately gained popularity amongst tuners. More aggressive pop n bang maps. Kids sitting in carparks revving the balls off their engines for their fellow mouth breathing mates. Quite common to see these cars for sale on facebook with a failed engine, where one of the pictures shows the car shooting fireballs out of the exhaust. Cause and effect.
If people are driving the shims in then the shims are way to thick. I've done plenty of block mods for customers and there still going well. Compression ratio is to high for the block design. The rs runs different ratio due to pistons used which is why more st engines crack compared to the rs. The big end going I've seen many a time due to pcv housing failing and leaking. Also the volvo and st engines are exactly the same including all hardware bolted to it. Injectors are the same fuel.rails, vvt solonoids, even the software for stock is exactly the same. U can literally pull a t5 lump out including full engine loom and plumb straight into an st. The main reason for them to crack is bad maps written by People not knowing what there doing or running imap flash units and stick a map on without supporting mods so cars may feel faster but in reality there just ruining there internals.
Here in Australia they blow heads and gaskets every other day. Ambient temps might be part of the problem but from what I’ve seen, the blocks have a semi wet sleeve design similar to early Hondas. There’s little surface area for the head gasket fire ring to engage and definitely no margin for error. N/A versions had little issues but feed in some boost and revs and things get nasty and you get a nice waterfall out the tailpipe. Of course if that water jacket seal goes oil can become contaminated. Curiously it’s a gradual process that just sees coolant disappearing then one day you know you’ve got dramas. Last I heard Ford Australia were still honouring warranties but that was a few years ago when Ford Australia existed. They never fixed the issue and just kept throwing heads and gaskets at it. Owners got fed up and copped big losses on a trade in.
For anyone watching this a wondering how big one “Thou” is. A Thou is one thousands of an inch. One mm is 40 thou. A piece of paper is 3 “Thou” thick. This gives an idea of the tight tolerances these engines are measured. 😊👍🏼
@@QALibrary I'm an engineer and in modern engineering machine shops metric and imperial and used equally. What schools teach is not always relevant to the real world unfortunately.
To stop ends knocking out like that make improvements to the sump to prevent oil surge on long fast bends, this involves the need to seriously increase the capacity of oil the sump holds as well as trap doors round the pick up as under hard cornering a lot of oil gets held up in one end of the head camshaft spaces and the standard sump can run dry, once there is air in the pickup pipe the pump can get air locked and then struggles to pull returning oil up the pipe from the sump, then if a bearing starts overheating the increasing oil fume pressure generated from the heat going back through the oil galleries to the pressure side of the pump makes the air lock problem worse and the big end goes on to knock out completely instead of just suffering minor damage from a very short term oil starvation . Don't waste your time with oil accumulator cylinders they don't work. Good luck with it, 'Sausage' HT Racing Ltd.
The Honda Civic 96 D16 had a similar problem and the mod was an what's a piece of aluminum machined to support the cylinder and stop movement mainly done on modified cars Hope that helps let me know or if you want more info contact me 👍
I used to own a volvo v70 T5 SE phase 2. It was 250hp standard and i had it remapped to 325hp (324.6 on an independent rolling road). This was at approx 100k miles. The car had a replacement engine fitted by main dealer volvo at 85K miles but i could not find the reason why. I drove that car like i stole it all of the time, no mechanical sympathy whatsoever. It had regular oil changes (5K miles). I sold the car with 210000 miles on it and its still running and on the road now with 264000 miles. Spark plugs, coil packs and a cracked exhaust manifold were the only powerplant issues i ever had. I really cant understate how much abuse that car took for so long with not even the sign of a hint of an issue. Best car ive ever owned. 325hp in a leather armchair is a unique experience. For me, it appears that some Ford modification has revealed a weakness in the existing design, maybe even ford castings just arent of the quality the volvo ones were. Could it be a problem in the ford ecu? Im not sure of the ins and outs but ive never had another engine take half the abuse without some kind of failure. That example of a volvo 5 cylinder engine was truly bulletproof.
Hi Loving the channel being a retired Tech and engine builder myself and a Cosworth Nut . I have seen on some highly tuned Volvo engines they bore a hole down in between the top of the wet liner part and the block and fit shafts of aluminium to make things much more ridged. Might be worth doing.
The reasons these starve of oil in the bottom end is the pcv diaphragm goes. Struggling to drain the oil from the head and take it back to the sump and eventually it blows a big end. Happens so so often it’s insane.
Just replaced my pcv.as part of the oil filter housing.when they split they steal reali bad.remove oil filler cap and the vacuum is crazy.mine has done 108k miles and so far no engine problems.i don't ever rag from cold.and always allow to cool down if driven a long way or hard.
Open deck block very little liner support, on limit for stability in standard tune. Add in aftermarket remap 'tune' more boost and fuel the liners try to go walkabout and it all warps. The end result is a destroyed engine. The old cosworth 2.0 and 2.9 ford engines with cast iron closed deck blocks would easily give 500hp without issues. These engines were a staple at our shop in 80s and 90s only time they returned was was to be refreshed. We also bored and stroked these to 2.4 and 3.4 respectively without issue.
I've seen people mix up a bunch of what looks like JB weld and pack the entire top of the block with it. Once it is cured they drill a bunch of holes around the entire deck to let the coolant pass through. It does seem to work...but how long I couldn't tell you. I'd rather just avoid that engine altogether.
Things have changed dramatically in the 50-plus years since I started working on engines, but it seems one thing hasn't. When we had problems the phrase which was often repeated was "What do you expect, it's a Ford". They were decidedly crap then and it seems they're not much better now!
The issue is probably the same as the 3 cylinders here in the US from the looks of it. The open deck block design doesn't have enough meat between the cylinders and the cylinders warp and allow small amounts of coolant through to the cylinder. Ford may have changed the material make up of the cylinders and block over what volvo did and their emission systems here in the US hold condensation and oil in the intake path on cold start-up and feed some more water into the engine.
I have built engines but don't consider myself an engine builder.. my point on this is if the block needs modding due to twisting issues then surely instead of just using the shim between bores press long stud pins around the bore jackets then check the bores.. put heavy duty steel main caps on or a girdle incorporated then line bore the mains area. Could that be a feasible idea. a fair bit of work but would open up possibilities to go as far as you want.
These used to run faultlessly in Police S60 T5`S, which i used to see in auction with 180k miles. Im only guessing here, but i would imagine the focus to run a different sump. Could they be suffering oil surge which is doing the bottom end in?
The police this used the 2.3l or 2.4 engine, the Ford use the 2.5l so not the t5. Volvo did use a 2.5l 5cyl hat in the s60r/v70r but its not the same engine as ford 2.5l 5cyl.
Correct, it's the muppet boy racer brigade. They don't have a clue. They buy these little Fords and tune them up beyond their knowledge and screw them over. I've got a T5 at 300bhp in a V70 with 245,000 miles on it.
I had an ex police mondeo mk4 zetec that was fitted with the 2.5t 5 cylinder engine.....I took it from 132k to 150k in 6 months. Apart from fuel and a service, it cost nothing...the service print out indicated that it had nothing apart from regular services before schedule, and a cam belt and water pump....oil was still clean on dip stick when It went in for its service....
The Mazda 3/6 MPS use a variant of this engine in a 2.3 guise if I remember correctly. Don’t remember any problems with over heating on them and they come with over 250hp out of the box
I have a 370bhp mk2 st never had an issue. Need 6000 mile service must be warmed up and cooled down after driving hard. The heat cycles can take there tole they have to be looked after like any car.
Im a Volvo V50 owner in Australia and will add my observations. The reason these engines fail is due to overheating. The reason for overheating is mainly due to coolant leaks with the temp gauge not moving at all. The FORD made coolant expansion tanks which are crap will crack, leak or explode after 6 years and you will cook your motor. The upper radiator hose (Octopus hose) has a weak point on the T joint to split and leak and will cook your motor. The FORD made heater hose on the firewall can also crack and leak from brittle plastics and will cook your motor All these 3 items should be replaced as they are cheap and easy to replace if you value your car. The temp gauge will not move when this happens, and you will cook your motor. ( design fault) due to it NOT BEING a CHT sensor in the head. Volvo stuffed up and used normal temp sensor inside the thermostat housing that will read air temp and not coolant temp from a air pocket that forms when coolant lose happens, hence your gauge will not move. Another design flaw was the P1 Volvos / Focus XR5 (ST225 in UK) used the crap FORD expansion tank which had no Low Coolant sensor which also cracks and leaks after 6 years. The P2 and P3 Volvo do have a low coolant sensor as they did not use the crap Ford Tanks. As a safeguard I use a OBD2 type instrument gauge "UTRAGAUGE" stuck to the bottom of my windscreen which monitors Temp and Voltage etc. which will trigger an audible alarm from the set alarm points I set for low Voltage and high temp.... I set my high Temp alarm to 97 Celsius which gives me plenty enough warning time in advance.
Referring back to my comment about the Vega aluminum engine of years gone by there was a solution and it worked. Believe it or not the proven way to fix those old vega engines was to install cylinder sleeves from an 8N Fprd tractor. These were old tractors and the sleeve dimensions were about perfect for a retro fit of a cast iron sleeve into an aluminum block. Same solution SHOUD work here. You will have to research the dimensions you need to sleeve these and somebody,, somewhere makes a cast iron sleeve that will work. forget about that Micky Mouse block mod, go ahead and figure out a way to put a cast iron sleeve in it and be done with it.
Chrysler and Chev had problems with head seal on their aluminium block with cast iron heads. Both had open deck surfaces as seen on those Ford engines. Chrysler had a number of head gasket updates trying to cure head gasket sealing issues. I believe the forces created on the major and minor thrust surfaces of the cylinder walls causes the cylinder to move/vibrate "left and right". In the days of the fuel crisis, Detroit Diesel designed their first 4 stroke V8 medium duty diesel. One feature was an open deck surface. Detroit Diesel had a long list of head gasket upgrades and eventually tooling and procedure to drill and tap the blocks for 15mm head bolts from the factory 14mm. It was my theory that they should have had closed decks. A machine shop could have cut the outside tops of the liners and around the inside of the block outer walls to fit a 5/16" or 1/2" plate that could be tapped into place to hold the tops of the liners from doing a Texas Two Step.
I saw a YT vid of a guy im the US who straightens warped heads as he says that otherwise the cam bearings are misligned and can cause further problems, any thoughts?
It could be that the block is actually twisting when it is revved hard. Possibly even a resonance problem. This would explain why it has problems with it's head seal and big end bearing failure. This might explain why Ford engines are different to Volvo ones, especially when Ford cheapened out on the build quality.
There’s also a replacement t hose available from Continental, although more expensive doesn’t rely on the glued T. Imagine that going on a high powered engine . It’s game over
The big end after the oil pump being changed, my guess is that the fitter got a tiny bit of sealant in the oilways when fitting, and it just clogged it enough to kill a big end bearing. And you say the Volvo engines, let's call a spade a spade here, it is originally the 5 pot Audi engine that Volvo copied and then Ford got hold of when they bought Volvo out, and as we all know, they didn't used to suffer from many engine problems in the Audi's, even sometimes running up to 700-800hp and revving to 8000rpm.
Was called to a sales car that threw a rod , 2,5 5 pot Volvo . First I had ever seen . Gave the buyer his £950 back and turned the remains over to the local scrappy .He said "you r a soft one for giving chalkey his cash back. He told us he accidentally shifted it into 2nD instead of 4th gear at 80mph !!" No good deed goes unpunished.
Wait till the Mk3's start to get a few miles on em... The last one of these I built was knackered because some clown had used silicon on the upper cam bearings/cam cover, instead of the correct stuff rolled on with a paint roller. Is the issue with these the fact that they are 2.5 litre? All the big power volvos of old were 2.3, so had thicker cylinder walls I believe?
All these 2,5T I have seen cracked had the cracks at either side of the area where cylinders are simmered. I figured the thermal expansion was restricted at the siamesed point and free to grow elsewhere leading to stress cracking. I don't see cylinder deck drop unless overheated.
Just listen to any ST or RS going down the road spitting and banging with loads of mods on......there's your answer right there!....then look at any Volvo T5 Police car which are also driven very hard...but maintained and not messed with and reach well over 150k before they are moved on...
Ive buildt several of these similar Volvo T5 2.3 and 2.5 engines with 400-700hp range and very seldom problems with them after doing the correct modifications to them. Some of my customers already used them 2-3 seasons in drifting cars too.
Good video. The slot between the cylinders is not as deep on the RS engine, the deeper slot on the ST does allow more bore distortion and leads to more cracked liners. When forged, and with the shims and a re-bore they can be safe up to 600hp, if the liners are replaced they go to 1000hp and are OK. My 300hp Mk2 ST broke two piston ring lands, I think it was due to a bad map.
No one seems to mention the incorrect fuel pressure due to the fuel pressure sensors being crap. They don’t throw a fault code but you can see it on live data that the fuel pressure drops and you can feel it when doing a linear boost pull.
It is the completely open deck design. Nothing holding the tops of the cylinders. With the amount of torque in those engines the tops of the cylinders scrub front to back basically scratching the gasket like it's a lottery ticket. Only a matter of time before the gasket blows flooding the cylinders with coolant
There’s a proprietary hose connection that always fails in the cooling system. It’s like a T glued together with a plastic coupler. The air box needs to come out to change.
Aye, from what I've seen the cooling system does seem to be a weak point. I'm not fully up with my precision engineering knowledge, could the big end issue be a result of the block warping?
Blocks Warp Because of Thermal Mass accumulation When you Subject Thin Areas Of Metal To Temp's Greater than what Stock Components are Designed To Do Then You are Pushing the Limits Of Many Internal Components Resulting in Greater thermal Mass at Weak Areas On Modern Engines. They are No Longer Made to last In a Car Or Truck. Ford are Now the worlds worst when it comes to Weak Component's. Can No Do One without Doing the Others to Suit the Task.
I do not know how the two engines relate, but we had a 2007 2.0 petrol Ford Focus, had done more than 200.000 miles with it and never had an issue until we sold it. Also most of the miles were inside the city, i.e. a lot of traffic and many parkings during each day. In essence the worst type of mileage for an engine.
The st blocks are shite. Being open deck and having slots between the sleeves they cook the water causing shrinkage/cracks. The face lift St's have deeper slots to attempt to prevent the water from boiling thus causing overheating. I've come across this problem many times standard/modified. The rs variant of the engine has plasma coated liners, which prevents the liners from cracking unless your running serious power. Block mod works but is not a guarantee it still can fail. Even dropping Darton liners into a block comes with risks where the sleave cam actually move and damage the head gasket. Also into consideration being open deck is the issue off bore wobble.
Overrun maps not fully igniting fuel which then thins oil....., also dickheads not warming them up and thrashing them. I have abstained from BM partly due to cost weighed against likelihood and car value and also because I believed the BM must move/distort cylinders - thanks for confirming that 👍
I was going to say maybe manufacturing and quality of raw materials used , but then its the ST , Sanitary Towel Ford . LittleBleeders that rag em around coz daddy paid the Insurance , I admit some owners must like and care for them . The numbers i saw of these seemed to have dwindled in recent years ,maybe what makes up the second hand spares market if they've been written off or so. Still like the T5 Volvo more as Ive winessed 1st hand how nice they are to ride in ...
I believe it's from Low speed pre ignition (lspi) it cracks blocks smashes bearings blows ring lands to pieces lifts heads bends rods ect. lspi is often known as super knock it occurs in low engine speed high boost conditions like accelerating at full boost full load under 2500rpm lspi is becoming more frequent especially in turbocharged direct injected petrol motors but it can most definitely still happen in mpfi too
No youre describing the inherent issues with the mk3 focus ST and RS engines, which are ford engines with direct injection. This is the mk2 focus ST engine, designed by volvo which has port injection.
What I heard from a Volvo (Swedish) person developing the C1 platform, for å long time ago. These 5 cylindets problems in the Ford ST is probably related to some of you assumption. During the development of the ST Ford wrecked many engines. A team from Sweden found out that Ford did different assumption in the design phase. The estimated predicted lifetime was shorter, something like Volvo aimed for ~15year, while Ford~10 year lifetime. This made all Ford system simpler, and engine running hotter(smaller coolers an so on)
What are you talking about? The intercooler and radiator are shared between the focus and c30 of the same era. Ford tested the engines by running them for a week long at 6000rpm without failure. The T5 engine in the mk2 focus ST is 100% unchanged from what volvo fitted into their cars, the only notable difference is the ecu map which included a mild ignition cut on the fords.
@@lastexile1187 That wasn't a real world test though. It probably only went through one careful warm up. And the real problem may not be in the startup but in the cool down. When I had tuned engines if I had been going quick I would always drive slower the last mile or so home. Sometimes you can get localised hot spots once the engine is turned off and the water ceases to flow and do the damage at that stage. I have had old style engines that after a journey would tick over ok and then blow the rad cap when you switched it off if you hadn't allowed it to cool while running first.
Thought the block mod was a con on the 5254t3 motor. I have c30 t5. Think only way to tune these effectively get decent safe power. Is to forge the engine along with using decent sleeves like Darton.
It's probably caused by the Nut behind the steering wheel!! I have seen a lot of these cars getting hammered at car shows and suffering a lot with a lack of servicing...
Hi I've recently come across your you tube channel and enjoy your work. I have a st with the volvo engine in, since I bought the vehicle back in 2015 I've had an issue with low oil pressure at idle when cold. Get it up to normal running temp all good. I've rebuilt my engine new bearings oil pump etc, 6 months after rebuild happening again. I have confirmed when oil light comes on I have zero oil pressure, any ideas what it could be, I was planning on stripping it again and getting the crank checked
After a bit of varnish builds up from fried oil, on cold starts, is the pressure relief valve setting off and sticking, then releasing when the temps come up?
Just a random comment as I appreciate your opinion, is the 3.0 Citroen V6 3.0 bio turbo a dangerous engine to get involved with? Just looking for some advice...
I had the block mod carried out at Dreamscience at Hull. Mines Mountune MP260 + turbo back 3" exhaust, so probably about 270 hp I guess. There are std cars that run fine with no cracking etc. I did the b/m just as a matter of preventive maintenance. Oh, and replace the oil every 6k. Had my St for 10 years now, bought at 32k now I'm just over 90k.
There was a recall for the head gasket when the rs first came out as far as I remember… Big end issues might be something to do with big end torques being out, maybe there is the odd one out of spec from factory due to bad quality control… Wrong grade of oil might cause issues..
Steel girdle for the mains. Machine 4 bores about an inch down between cylinders and block walls and weld in aluminum dowels of the correct size to reduce bore movement. Open deck blocks not my cup of tea.
I'm thinking about a Mondeo Titanium X 59 plate with the 2.5T engine. Watching this is giving me doubt now to whether I should get it. It's done 140,000 miles. Still got the rear twin downturned exhaust pipes. Have you had many of these from Mondeo's in to the workshop? Did Police with the volvo and mondeo's with the 2.5T have the same issues?
Never understood why they didn't use the Volvo 2.3 or 2.4 engines for the Focus, I've got a remapped 2.3 850 T5 wagon with a 16T and white injectors with a Rica 304 remap and it's been bombproof in the 8 years ive owned it. Had an S70 2.3 T5 as well and that was no trouble.
I heard the original Volvo T5 lump didnt fit across the frame rails in the Focus so Ford developed a "short" version to squeeze it in, engineering out a lot of the Volvo's original safety margin over-engineering to make it happen. Ford had by then taken over Volvo and I guess they decided to use this version in later Volvo models instead of the 2.3 T5 lump to save money keeping 2 versions in production. I have to say (having removed, repaired and replaced the engine on an ST due to the ends being run on it, scoring the crank) that its a bloody tight fit!! 850 T5 EVERY TIME! That was a low on oil failure btw, the car was only about 4 years old, low mileage, but idiot customer cracked the sump having run out of talent racing someone (it was chipped) and reversed it over a kerb at speed, then was too tight to buy a new sump and fixed it with JB weld. This wonderful bodge failed and the oil fell out. By the time the oil light came in it had run an end.
@@neilhewitt2761 2.3 and 2.4 Volvo T5's are bombproof mate, My 850 2.3 T5 is on an Oblark map on an M4.4 ecu, I'm not sure of the bhp/Torque on this map but it goes like stink! i previously run it on a Rica 304 on the M4.3 with a 16T and white injectors, Was putting out about 280 bhp/300NM on that map and i ragged the crap out of it, No split liners or big end probs on a 2.3 mate, Running 10W60 oil as recommended by Tim Williams.
i watched a vid, on youtube somewhere awhile back about this problem, and they seemed to think one of the waterways is too close to the cyclinder wall and thats where it goes, then leaks water into that cylinder ( wish i could remember which cylinder !) causing a bit of a hydrolock scenario and either doing the main bearing in or some cases con rod failure....any help ?... great vids by the way. and ford are aware of the problem alledgedly..
I have a mate down here in Australia that did the big end on cylinder 5 in his 04 Volvo S60R after getting it tuned, needless to say he drives it HARD...Which explains the 1 point left on his license. It makes me think that the demographic that drives the Ford ST are also driving the cars beyond the engines limits.
I just watched an interesting vid and the gent was suggesting detonation and head lifting. There was a witness mark left by the stock head bolt leaving an indentation.and less clamping pressure. What happened to iron blocks?
Just watched a video about RS engines same problem, they said it’s the cylinder head gasket two holes between the cylinder in the gasket and only one hole does anything, ford now do a undated head gasket, don’t think this is a complete cure, could be worth a watch
you mentioned the engines being hot a bunch, its aluminium, it can be annealed, so potentially the aluminium alloy of the head is such that in combination with running hot, it self-anneals and goes softer and then is more prone to warping? have you run a hardness tester and compared it to a new head or a head of a block known to not warp?
Service by the book and no cheap oil. The delta intergraly was a 3000 mile between Service. Back in the day young lads bought them as they were cheap. BUT they missed Services and started to get problems. Without that FSH the car then became worthless.
It looks like my st has just succumbed to this cracked liner issue, whats the kind of cost involved in having it repaired including shipping it both ways? Im in the uk
Volvo T5 engine are common engine swaps here in sweden and 500+ hp is not uncommon... there are some specific things that has become common knowledge here among racers/ drifers when it comes to making these engines last. First stouter rods then a girdle or sleeves then pistons... The bores cracking is probably the most common flaw in these engines at "high" output. shimming will help but the shim has to be aluminium the right size and not forced in... some people here put precise aluminium shims and lightly tap them down and tac them ligtly to keep them in place. I dont know these fords but volvo engines come in 83 and 81mm bores and the 81mm bores hold for more power... Its also possible to modify a volvo diesel block (D5) to run a T5 cylinder head. The diesel blocks are way more stout! If a shim is put in it should be bored and honed WITH a stressplate and crank girdle on and torqued! I dont know what ford specs the bearing tolerances to but volvos specs are way too tight for high hp, its most common to go up in bearing to crank clerance. The overheating issue is not a well known problem in volvo engines but it IS known that these waterpumps cavitate when revving high 6k+, track cars usually run with a bigger gear on the waterpump. I have seen sometime that when assembling the engine the metal clip that routes water in the back of the waterjacket is forgotten and overheating as a result... as well as mounting a headgasket from another model and not moving the clip with overheating as a result... These cranks are really stout! Ive seen cars with 1000+hp running (the later and lighter) stock crank and stock main bearings reliably. The problem is the block twisting and bending at the crank resulting in failure, diesel blocks are way better in this regard! I drive a Volvo 945 with a T5 swap as my daily driver, best sounding engine ever! :)
Hi ya. When I hear the head warped and it is machined flat . I then wonder about the space/volume would not be the same for all the head chambers. would you then do checks and remedial work to bring them back to being all the same ? As for the block distorting and being machined flat surely that means the line of where the crank sits would possibly need line boring. I am not a mechanic and have only worked on a couple of mini engines and am just an sheetmetal worker fabricator engineer . Hope to hear thoughts on the above. regards Don.
I have not seen anyone mention it but the cheapest horsepower adder is nitrous. The heat generated is tremendous and can really cook a poorly tuned engine. I don’t know much about these small engines.
I own a 5 cylinder RS and never see anyone in the mk2 RS scene have engine issues. The volvo lump in the RS is mostly different to the on ST. It has lots of different internal parts. The liners are different for a start and are made from plasma so don't get the cracking issues. On the other hand I hear lots about ST engines failing. The seem to be weaker.(probably because they run less power) The overheating issue is more than likely down to failing radiators. They're prone to corrosion on the bottom edges on both the ST and RS. I think the block mod on the ST is a bit of a con, especially on standard cars.
In terms of the bores could the warp not be due to the differential sleeve thickness top to bottom. where they are butted up they look pretty thin, so if it got pretty warm id imagine that would be a problem.
Are these engines prone to air-locks if oil filters are removed while the sump is empty during a service? Perhaps resulting in an extended running period before running oil pressure is achieved? Doesn’t explain the overheating of course. Open deck blocks with gaps between the bores is surely not good engineering. Its probably done to allow individual expansions of the bores but it leaves the bores pretty much bottom anchored but unsupported at the top where the heat and combustion pressure is highest. Are the bores meant to be higher that the block outer walls, so that they are compressed somewhat for support?
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mk2 ST owner here, Ive owned 2 dating back to early 2015, my current one ive owned for 4 years now, highly modded including the block mod done in late 2018 - also my block mod was done without re-boring the cylinders and ive not had issues since, plus its running a lot more power now than it was back then. Id say theres a bunch of factors, mirroring what some comments have already mentioned: pop n bang maps are unfortunately becoming more common, this is related to the type of owner that can only afford these cars when theyre being valued at £2500-5k range; the leggy examples with patchy service history, which then get passed onto owners who dont do basic maintenance on them or skimp on spurious service parts. Engine being ragged from cold im sure causes liner failures and possibly bearing failure? Oil grade/spec - there are tuners who recommend 0w40 oil for tuned mk2 STs, when ford recommends 5w30; ive talked to an expert who recommended 10w40 or 10w60 specifically in order to avoid bearing failure. The size of the standard turbo is tiny and theres a couple of big name tuners in the uk whos remaps push the turbo to its absolute maximum; in some cases with actuators turned up too high in order to meet the tuners claimed dyno figures; i.e. over 21 psi is dangerous on the standard turbo and ive seen spectacular rod failure from it. Oil system - related to what i said about basic maintenance not being done or skimped on; combine a cheap remap with an oil filter housing thats leaking/misting oil or the in/out ports are clogged due to lack of regular oil changes. The age of the cars doesnt help ancillary engine parts either;- deteriorating coolant hoses are naturally becoming more common, a mate had rapid coolant loss on track with his and lost the engine because of it. Unfortunately the mk2 STs have a negative reputation in the UK but I can assure you its not the same in other countries. Its a reliable and strong engine (certaily more robust and better designed than any of the mk3 st/rs engines onwards) but i would say these failures are largely due to the value of the cars being so low and attainable to undesirable youth owners in the uk.
Absolutely 500% . Expecially lack of servicing, replacing age related cooling system parts, and driving it hard from cold.
Totally agree with everything you've written. Use quality parts and fuel, service it regularly, let it warm up and down and it'll be as reliable as anything else.
Driving a cold engine hard is a killer, and far too common no matter what the car.
@@daveevans4356 cheers 👍
Couldn’t agree more.
It’s a lovely engine and if looked after properly it will be fine.
I worked in an engine test bay for a well know lubricant company. We took great care with making sure the test replicated the environment the engine would sit in. We would experience hot spots in a block or various components. Servicing of the engine was important, within certain manufacturers environments the oil would degrade faster. Where one engine environment the oil would be within specs 5K above service milage another would be out of spec in 2K. The environment the engine is in plays a really big role.
In all Car Handbooks it tells you what the Oil Change interval under, "Normal driving conditions" ... then there's also the Change Interval under 'Severe driving conditions' .. Normal driving conditions could be likened to you're steady / Normal motorway driving where as, frequent Stop /Start driving short hard runs and even not allowing the engine to come back down back to normal by idling, could even be called as 'severe driving' on these older cars, thinking the biggest problem with older engines Over heating could maybe those Old Radiators ...changing same to an upgraded higher Volume and better triple Air Flow Rad might be the way to go, thermostats fail very rarely and do so mainly when they don't open on a freezing cold day, even a Coolant drain and black flushing the rad and cleaning out the rad Fins and new Coolant Pump could help, somewhat more serious one could be another Nuclear option a performance high capacity Oil Cooler which takes maybe an extra litre oil ...lastly the DAMAGE over the previous years could well have already been done...
@@malachy1847 very true 👍🏽
I used to buy shell Thornton research cars and they were interesting , high miles engines dropped into new cars and ran on new oils and fuels and going back to the 80’s new escort Mexicos a pal bought 2 with old engines in and the new one taken out when on delivery miles ..like I say weird what shell did researching
I’m no mechanic but I used to be in the motor trade a long time ago. My gut feeling is that the problems may originate from the different nature and driving/maintenance attitudes of Volvo and Ford performance customers. You’re much more likely to come across an ST/RS that has been driven up to, and beyond, its engine performance parameters. When the engines are manufactured the tolerances sometimes don’t allow for much if any deviation from maintenance schedules and consumables. Wander away from the requirements and you get rapid deterioration. The oil issues really suggest to me that the standard oil pump/system is a bit suspect when the car is driven at its limits and physical forces are working against the pump. I don’t care what owners say these Fords lead an almost exclusively hard life, more so than a ‘standard’ car. The current 1.0 eco boost Fords are also garnering a reputation for failure. I believe that both engines need meticulous maintenance for reliability. The ‘slack’ in manufacturing tolerances is being cut in the name of efficiency.
My friend owns a Volvo Dealership, and he and his wife don't drive Volvo's, and he said to me that; he wouldn't buy one. What more of an endorsement do you need!
Personally, there's two simply words that sums this up; *Poor Engineering!*
The excuse about an engine warping the more cylinder it has (leading to failure) ... well .... go tell that to the 2jz crowd or the Nissan DET crowd, and they'll wet themselves laughing.
Like all the excuses that fanboys attempt to come up with, be it Ford or BMW ... two of the most disgraceful engine builders in the world ... it comes down to, Poor Engineering!
I speak with experience when I say the volvo and ST are 2 completley different cars and have 2 completely different owners. The ST and RS are cars that are screaming performance and owners squeeze or wish to squeeze so much more power out of them. The issue is the liners flex and give up the ghost IE there is no flex in the head gasket so it blows and then the head warps then if you factor in the extreme boost some of these cars are tuned to the head will warp. I explained before I have dealt with around 100+ of these cars in the workshop and they all have the same issue. Some of the owners dont service them and run them on a budget hence the car is not warmed up correctly before giving full boost and hence the gaskets fail. I put alot of the issues with these engines down to the movement caused by the flexing and of course most of these cars are over 10years old and I would advise anyone buying one to factor in a head rebuild with new gaskett and block mod at 100,000 miles.if anything the block mod will stop the flexing of the liners and protect the headgasket. You will be supprised the amount of cars we have that had tuning done to the extreme without any modifications done to the engine. Remember the RS version of the volvo engine has more forged internals than the ST yet owners want the same power as the RS. Best of luck with the channel and please bear in mind you will see more and more of these engines come in due to the age of the car now. For info the RS engine is coded YZDA and the ST is coded HYDA I am a Ford Engineer of 28 years
Terry
Interesting. Would you recommend a block mod on a completely standard HYDA?
@@TheMxrrab Yes and new head gasket! In fairness the head should be skimmed with new valve stem oil seals! along with block mod and this will prolong the life massively! The big ends blow due to lack of service and old style fuel filter housing! Ford and volvo modified the filter housing as the early ones suffered diaphram failure within the housing you see these engines use a PCV (positive crankcase ventillation) system and when the diaphram splits you get terminal damage as the pressure is not recycled and hence the gases cannot escape! you can diagnose this issue by whistling sound high pitched and this sounds dissapears when you remove the oil dipstick! In a nut shell! service service service the damn engine regulary and dont dont dont thrash car before warming up to operating temperature then you will have a great car!
@@tracieoliver2307 i basically purchased a 225 with rod knock for cheap. Engine will be coming out shortly for a complete resto. I had heard of the oil filter previously so will stick it on my list. The car came with some good history serviced every 5k or less so it will be interesting to see what’s actually caused the knock. I just wasn’t sure if the block mod was vital on a standard engine (it will be kept standard). Appreciate the advice 👍🏻
@@TheMxrrab Yes great try to get the uprated oil filter housing ending in 5 on the serial number on the filter black plasting cover as they are the revised housing
Thoroughly enjoy your channel, a bit of motor repair information, a bit of storytelling about customers and great narration.
Very cool
Where ford in there wisdom decided to bore the engine to 2.5 from 2.3 made the liners thinner which then made them weaker and they didn't add any reinforcement, adding the shims adds some strength back to the top of the liners where they are prone to crack.
Tim Williams does the block mod on the 2.3 & 2.5 engines and has done for many, many years.
The liners cracking isn't such an issue on the RS as they had plasma coated liners so you only see these cracking under high horse power, the ST on the other hand it doesn't seem to matter if its a standard car that has been rigorously maintained or one that has had hell from day 1 they all crack liners and with them getting on in age and mileage your going to see more and more.
Some say the block mod doesn't work, some say it does but it all depends when the shims are installed, if the bores are already oval then adding the shims won't benefit as much if the liners are not then honed but have the shims installed when the liners aren't to the point of needing honing then the shims do help to give some strength back to the top of the liners where these are prone to crack.
THEIR wisdom
In my experience , lack of servicing, warm up/cool down, coolant leaks from shit hoses. Biggest issues I'm seeing st the moment are water pump failures with people using after market water pumps. As for the comment regarding blocks mod I dont agree with it being a waste of time. The only cars I've ever seen crack a liner are those that are not shimmed, Also remember these issues are only only inherant on the ST. The RS came with Plasma coated liners and much shallower coolant slots in the top of the deck, I've only ever seen 2 crack which were both 600+ bhp engines ran dry of coolant. 👍 I highly rate the cars/ engines as you'll see from some of my uploaded videos. They are a force to be reckoned with (skip the headgasket failure one though) 😉
Glad to see someone who knows these engines well in the comments here, theres too many trying to blame the block mod for cylinder liner ovalling. Interesting point you made about the spurious water pumps, I'd bet thats becoming more common as the values of the STs has already dropped so low.
I work in a cylinder head shop and have seen many of theses 5 cylinder heads over the last couple of years .They have usually been cooked and are no longer flat to the point where the valves are no longer seating requiring a full rebuild and shim job ,Also seem to suffer from premature ex valve guide wear .
what's the company name?
The Block Mod is done on the Volvo 2.5ltr engine because the cast in steel bore liner is much thinner than the 2.4ltr and can crack between the cylinders.
Adding the shim adds reinforcement it that area.
The 2.3 is the best engine to mod as the walls are thicker
Im pretty sure they do different sizes of shims as per the sizes of the gaps in the bores. Im also sure some do modify the tops of the liners with a weld in girdle. Semi closed decks have caused problems for other manufacturers before so its not a specific Volvo/Ford issue.
Ive got an St at 310 bhp, block modded in 2018 at dreamscience, my mate has an rs engined St at 425, block modded in 2012, has been fine. I think the pop and bang maps that most run really dont do them any favours along with ham fisted owners.
Great cars and such a characterful engine.
They're an open deck block, not semi closed. That's why they're weak.
when i did the block mod on a rs conversion the shims were all the same thickness , the gaps between the liners were all different and when i contacted the shop i got the mod kit off they said not to worry . It was running a 420 map for 2 years after i built it up with no problems .
I probably discovered why this happen.... (Sorry for my English) The problem is the exaust manifold... The gas exaust have e serious restriction before going out into the downpipe.
All the 5 cilinder gas exaust, flow into a small hole in the turbo and that cause a very high temperature in all the head engine. This is a very bad restriction for the gas...
In a track day the gas temperature reached 980°C.... That's crazy, with a good revo stage 4 remap and all the parts upgraded.
I modified the stock exaust manifold to eliminate more then possible this restriction, seems that works good.
20.000 miles with trackdays also and all still good!
I can sand you photos if you need it
Most of the time straight forward thinking and DIY mods can make a lot of difference!
A crank bending as you describe is way more likely to affect main bearings, not big ends. I can see how ovalised bores could possibly affect a big end, but the tolerances would have to be very close to matter and there would be more damage likely to the piston and bore itself. If the same cylinder's big end goes on all motors, I'd be checking the oil passages through the crank and block. For instance: a motor I know well is the Hemi six in Aussie Valiants- when they blow, its always number 2 which is 2nd furthest from the oil pump. Never seen a blown up Hemi that wasn't.
2017 focus RS owner here. I got mine in Dec of 2019. It had about 22k miles when I got it. The car is mostly if not completely stock. I've never modified it. To me, it was a lot of fun as is and I do daily the car but I don't trash it. I love to do some spirited driving but nothing crazy. I do maintenance on the car every 6 months and don't put a lot of miles on the car even though it is my daily. It's almost at 36k miles on it now and I've not had any engine trouble at all. In fact, the only thing unusual about mine that may not be in other RS cars is that the drive modes disable when it gets cold. I just figured every car had it's gremlins. I thought about modifying the car but I don't think I will. Anyway, just wanted to throw my personal experience with mine out there.
I’ve got a 06, 330bhp, 140k miles on original engine with block mod done. Owned since 2015 & serviced every 5000 genuinely been the most reliable car I’ve ever owned
Mine and my wifes ST225 has just hit 167,000 miles, one previous owner and orginal engine. Block mod done and has been a reliable daily so far. I've kept it well away from track days and car park meets 🙂🤷♂️
As another multiple 850r owner, don't tar volvo with these issues. :) the original 2.3 t5 built under volvo ownership was bullet proof even on its basic engine management in stock and tuned form. Once ford bought volvo things went downhill.
Correct. Volvo took the 2.3 upto 2.4 litres, but never to 2.5 litres for the high pressure turbo T5 or R's because they knew the liners weren't stable enough to reliably run at that output level. You will commonly see P2 V70 T5 ex police cars at way over 250+k having been re- mapped by the new civilian owner never had the cylinder head off. Remember these engines were in a heavy estate car and being run at higher loads more of the time than a lightweight 5 door hatchback and they still almost never give any bother. The quality of the machine work in them is clear to see. Ford cheapened the 'short' block version as they never expected Focus ST's to be still going after 130k miles as they'd have been in the shrubbery before that. Block stiffness and heat management is woeful by comparision.
S60R and V70R were both 2.5l
The 2.5 was being used in Volvos long before Ford came along.
@@timbo19751975 That is not correct. The RS engines that Ford modified are bulletproof. And the ST-versions that can suffer from cracked liners due to poor maintenance of people ragging the shit out of them is not due to Ford "cheapening" anything, as the Focus ST/Mondeo/Kuga/S-Max 2.5 engines came straight from Volvo and were of Volvo design.
@@Nakke144
Ford bought the castings then had them made in china. I worked in endurance testing on ford, even brand-new blocks came in with a higher compression in one bore, due to chinese piston incorrectly machined. Ford= made in china, at the cheapest price.
Back in my day x flow engines where being thrashed about ,i rebuilt 7 xf engines in my mums shed and had everything reground back to good metal and everything honed ,ten year old cars are being put in the hands of the pop bang generation 👍
Volvo 850R owner here. We do tune our engines, but don’t shout about it from the rooftops like Ford owners lol.
Or drive them like they do
Volvo owners are a different species to some of the brain dead Ford owners who want to tune their engine to stupid levels for bragging rights..
The t5r was reduced from 2.5 to 2.3 meaning thicker liners if I remember correctly
And ford drivers are not pensioners like volvo drivers
OIL surge during hard cornering .Needs a dry sump . TVR s had same problem
I am sure the Volvos were 2.3ltr and the ST/RS is a 2.5, so the bores are thinner and less strength, which may explain bore cracks, ovality and strength being less with the Ford versions. Had my ST when it was 3 yrs old and had it Mountuned and tweeked and was a great engine. Sounded great and was sad to see it go, but they are getting on a bit now and as said by others, the ST is worth buttons now and ends up on the redline by lots of baseball hat wearing current owners, which will kill them quicker. They dont like to be thrashed from cold either. Enjoy the channel , thanks for the time you give.
Thats exactly what i have heard
Not quite correct.
The 850 T5’s were 2.3 but the engine Ford used of the Volvo series in the Focus ST/RS was the same as the C30/S40/V50 T5 Volvo’s and this was the 2.5 5cyl engine. Some typical Ford cost cutting along the way especially in the early days with the head gasket etc….
Time has gone by and I forget some specifics but I believe the Volvo T5 engine cylinders are not left free floating and have joining bars at top of cylinder to engine case? I’d have to look through back pictures to confirm this.
Either way the T5 is a superb engine but the older 2.3 T5 engine was more tuneable block.
👍🏻
Open deck block has no support for the tops of the bore , once the squeeze is turned up it all starts moving around. We can look to the Lima four solid deck construction the turbo coupes ran .
Westwood liners, good map, good fuel, good oil, warm up cool down, no issues with no block mod 300bhp ST, block modded 320bhp, 460bhp no block modded RS engine (jzda, different engine to ST) they had shallower gaps between the liners, which is basically half a block mod from factory. Bare in mind these are 15 years old, gaskets aren’t for life 🥺 just like the rubber coolant hoses.
gaskets ARE for life on Volvos , but you are right not on fords you might find they use cheaper black gaskets ...
@@nickclark6001 are for life on volvos 🤦🏻♂️🤣
I think even Volvo themselves would disagree with that statement...
So. Should i upgrade to some silicone coolant hoses? they are still stock on my Rs
Knew one to break a rod on the freeway due to big end. Had been serviced with generic oil filters to distance not time. Had been sitting for ages. Suspicous that the generic filter had degraded, allowing chunks to clog galleries. Cant say for sure as i didnt get to inspect the dead block.
They also seem to have a habit of injesting unfiltered air somehow, i think usually a degraded hose to the turbo, wearing out the turbo and other internals. I got an oil test and saw highly elevated levels of silica and wear metals. Completely standard using all genuine fluids and filters and top shelf oil.
Im glad i got rid of mine to be honest.
HAHA, I've owned several "VOLVO" T5's always get them remapped as the standard Volvo map is a bit tame, (Just a mild stage 1 map to improve driveability, nothing Insane) Never had a problem with any of them. I suspect Ford may have taken the engine and figured out a way to make them more cheaply, Also when Ford took them over I suspect emissions control may have notched up a few degrees which maybe puts more stress on the engines? All the T5's harp back to the 2.3 with thicker liners, these are a very hardy engine, It's a shame they couldn't have stuck with those liners, I suspect the size was increased again for emissions? but I'm no expert.
Not sure what you mean by emissions control, but the fords do have an added ignition cut as standard on their ecus. Something which has unfortunately gained popularity amongst tuners. More aggressive pop n bang maps. Kids sitting in carparks revving the balls off their engines for their fellow mouth breathing mates. Quite common to see these cars for sale on facebook with a failed engine, where one of the pictures shows the car shooting fireballs out of the exhaust. Cause and effect.
The block used on the Focus ST is exactly the same used on the Volvo P3 T5 (C30, V60, V70, S80, etc.).
If people are driving the shims in then the shims are way to thick. I've done plenty of block mods for customers and there still going well. Compression ratio is to high for the block design. The rs runs different ratio due to pistons used which is why more st engines crack compared to the rs. The big end going I've seen many a time due to pcv housing failing and leaking. Also the volvo and st engines are exactly the same including all hardware bolted to it. Injectors are the same fuel.rails, vvt solonoids, even the software for stock is exactly the same. U can literally pull a t5 lump out including full engine loom and plumb straight into an st. The main reason for them to crack is bad maps written by People not knowing what there doing or running imap flash units and stick a map on without supporting mods so cars may feel faster but in reality there just ruining there internals.
@@Solotravelleronabudget RS liners are also thicker walled and its got stronger pistons too
@@Solotravelleronabudget
their.
Here in Australia they blow heads and gaskets every other day. Ambient temps might be part of the problem but from what I’ve seen, the blocks have a semi wet sleeve design similar to early Hondas. There’s little surface area for the head gasket fire ring to engage and definitely no margin for error. N/A versions had little issues but feed in some boost and revs and things get nasty and you get a nice waterfall out the tailpipe. Of course if that water jacket seal goes oil can become contaminated. Curiously it’s a gradual process that just sees coolant disappearing then one day you know you’ve got dramas. Last I heard Ford Australia were still honouring warranties but that was a few years ago when Ford Australia existed. They never fixed the issue and just kept throwing heads and gaskets at it. Owners got fed up and copped big losses on a trade in.
For anyone watching this a wondering how big one “Thou” is. A Thou is one thousands of an inch. One mm is 40 thou. A piece of paper is 3 “Thou” thick.
This gives an idea of the tight tolerances these engines are measured. 😊👍🏼
why the hell is he using inches where UK schools not teched in them since the 1970s and all these engines are designed and made in metric?
@@QALibrary I'm an engineer and in modern engineering machine shops metric and imperial and used equally.
What schools teach is not always relevant to the real world unfortunately.
@@Adam151082 I'm a toolmaker we rarely use imperial and if any Drawings do come in imperial i personal convert them to metric.
Thanks for watching Adam, watch all your videos myself so means a lot buddy 👍👊
@@BarumEngines cheers 😊👍🏼
To stop ends knocking out like that make improvements to the sump to prevent oil surge on long fast bends, this involves the need to seriously increase the capacity of oil the sump holds as well as trap doors round the pick up as under hard cornering a lot of oil gets held up in one end of the head camshaft spaces and the standard sump can run dry, once there is air in the pickup pipe the pump can get air locked and then struggles to pull returning oil up the pipe from the sump, then if a bearing starts overheating the increasing oil fume pressure generated from the heat going back through the oil galleries to the pressure side of the pump makes the air lock problem worse and the big end goes on to knock out completely instead of just suffering minor damage from a very short term oil starvation . Don't waste your time with oil accumulator cylinders they don't work. Good luck with it, 'Sausage' HT Racing Ltd.
The Honda Civic 96 D16 had a similar problem and the mod was an what's a piece of aluminum machined to support the cylinder and stop movement mainly done on modified cars Hope that helps let me know or if you want more info contact me 👍
I used to own a volvo v70 T5 SE phase 2. It was 250hp standard and i had it remapped to 325hp (324.6 on an independent rolling road). This was at approx 100k miles. The car had a replacement engine fitted by main dealer volvo at 85K miles but i could not find the reason why. I drove that car like i stole it all of the time, no mechanical sympathy whatsoever. It had regular oil changes (5K miles). I sold the car with 210000 miles on it and its still running and on the road now with 264000 miles. Spark plugs, coil packs and a cracked exhaust manifold were the only powerplant issues i ever had. I really cant understate how much abuse that car took for so long with not even the sign of a hint of an issue. Best car ive ever owned. 325hp in a leather armchair is a unique experience. For me, it appears that some Ford modification has revealed a weakness in the existing design, maybe even ford castings just arent of the quality the volvo ones were. Could it be a problem in the ford ecu? Im not sure of the ins and outs but ive never had another engine take half the abuse without some kind of failure. That example of a volvo 5 cylinder engine was truly bulletproof.
Hi Loving the channel being a retired Tech and engine builder myself and a Cosworth Nut .
I have seen on some highly tuned Volvo engines they bore a hole down in between the top of the wet liner part and the block and fit shafts of aluminium to make things much more ridged.
Might be worth doing.
The reasons these starve of oil in the bottom end is the pcv diaphragm goes. Struggling to drain the oil from the head and take it back to the sump and eventually it blows a big end. Happens so so often it’s insane.
That’s interesting Adam, we are still learning about these engines and only see them when it’s game over. I’ll certainly keep that in mind 👍
Just replaced my pcv.as part of the oil filter housing.when they split they steal reali bad.remove oil filler cap and the vacuum is crazy.mine has done 108k miles and so far no engine problems.i don't ever rag from cold.and always allow to cool down if driven a long way or hard.
Open deck block very little liner support, on limit for stability in standard tune. Add in aftermarket remap 'tune' more boost and fuel the liners try to go walkabout and it all warps. The end result is a destroyed engine. The old cosworth 2.0 and 2.9 ford engines with cast iron closed deck blocks would easily give 500hp without issues. These engines were a staple at our shop in 80s and 90s only time they returned was was to be refreshed. We also bored and stroked these to 2.4 and 3.4 respectively without issue.
You hit the nail on the head. It's the factory mapping.
I've seen people mix up a bunch of what looks like JB weld and pack the entire top of the block with it. Once it is cured they drill a bunch of holes around the entire deck to let the coolant pass through. It does seem to work...but how long I couldn't tell you. I'd rather just avoid that engine altogether.
Things have changed dramatically in the 50-plus years since I started working on engines, but it seems one thing hasn't. When we had problems the phrase which was often repeated was "What do you expect, it's a Ford". They were decidedly crap then and it seems they're not much better now!
The issue is probably the same as the 3 cylinders here in the US from the looks of it. The open deck block design doesn't have enough meat between the cylinders and the cylinders warp and allow small amounts of coolant through to the cylinder. Ford may have changed the material make up of the cylinders and block over what volvo did and their emission systems here in the US hold condensation and oil in the intake path on cold start-up and feed some more water into the engine.
Being ragged when not up to temp?
lspi 😢
I have built engines but don't consider myself an engine builder.. my point on this is if the block needs modding due to twisting issues then surely instead of just using the shim between bores press long stud pins around the bore jackets then check the bores.. put heavy duty steel main caps on or a girdle incorporated then line bore the mains area. Could that be a feasible idea. a fair bit of work but would open up possibilities to go as far as you want.
Thanks for the watch and ur comment Jon 👍
These used to run faultlessly in Police S60 T5`S, which i used to see in auction with 180k miles.
Im only guessing here, but i would imagine the focus to run a different sump. Could they be suffering oil surge which is doing the bottom end in?
The police this used the 2.3l or 2.4 engine, the Ford use the 2.5l so not the t5. Volvo did use a 2.5l 5cyl hat in the s60r/v70r but its not the same engine as ford 2.5l 5cyl.
the engine in the mk2 ST is a direct drop in from volvo. Includes a baffled sump. Absolutely identical to c30/s40 and v50 t5s.
Correct, it's the muppet boy racer brigade. They don't have a clue. They buy these little Fords and tune them up beyond their knowledge and screw them over. I've got a T5 at 300bhp in a V70 with 245,000 miles on it.
@@matthewwiddows6319 s60R has the same bottom end as the mk2 RS, theyre quite similar engines actually.
@@lastexile1187 are they exactly the same, are they stamped volvo or ford? what about crank\bearings
ods and pistons etc?
I had an ex police mondeo mk4 zetec that was fitted with the 2.5t 5 cylinder engine.....I took it from 132k to 150k in 6 months. Apart from fuel and a service, it cost nothing...the service print out indicated that it had nothing apart from regular services before schedule, and a cam belt and water pump....oil was still clean on dip stick when It went in for its service....
bet the police run it on a thicker oil like 5w40, which bmw recommend for police cars driven hard
There is not enough room between the cylinders for a decent head gasket seal.The gasket fails and they overheat.It is a design flaw.
Volvo tend to uprate their cooling systems to allow for towing (caravans presumably). Maybe that's the difference.
The Mazda 3/6 MPS use a variant of this engine in a 2.3 guise if I remember correctly. Don’t remember any problems with over heating on them and they come with over 250hp out of the box
That's a completely different engine. It's a 2.3L 4-cylinder. The engine in this video is a 5-cylinder engine based on Volvo's white block platform.
I have a 370bhp mk2 st never had an issue. Need 6000 mile service must be warmed up and cooled down after driving hard. The heat cycles can take there tole they have to be looked after like any car.
Im a Volvo V50 owner in Australia and will add my observations.
The reason these engines fail is due to overheating.
The reason for overheating is mainly due to coolant leaks with the temp gauge not moving at all.
The FORD made coolant expansion tanks which are crap will crack, leak or explode after 6 years and you will cook your motor.
The upper radiator hose (Octopus hose) has a weak point on the T joint to split and leak and will cook your motor.
The FORD made heater hose on the firewall can also crack and leak from brittle plastics and will cook your motor
All these 3 items should be replaced as they are cheap and easy to replace if you value your car.
The temp gauge will not move when this happens, and you will cook your motor. ( design fault) due to it NOT BEING a CHT sensor in the head. Volvo stuffed up and used normal temp sensor inside the thermostat housing that will read air temp and not coolant temp from a air pocket that forms when coolant lose happens, hence your gauge will not move.
Another design flaw was the P1 Volvos / Focus XR5 (ST225 in UK) used the crap FORD expansion tank which had no Low Coolant sensor which also cracks and leaks after 6 years. The P2 and P3 Volvo do have a low coolant sensor as they did not use the crap Ford Tanks.
As a safeguard I use a OBD2 type instrument gauge "UTRAGAUGE" stuck to the bottom of my windscreen which monitors Temp and Voltage etc. which will trigger an audible alarm from the set alarm points I set for low Voltage and high temp.... I set my high Temp alarm to 97 Celsius which gives me plenty enough warning time in advance.
Referring back to my comment about the Vega aluminum engine of years gone by there was a solution and it worked. Believe it or not the proven way to fix those old vega engines was to install cylinder sleeves from an 8N Fprd tractor. These were old tractors and the sleeve dimensions were about perfect for a retro fit of a cast iron sleeve into an aluminum block. Same solution SHOUD work here. You will have to research the dimensions you need to sleeve these and somebody,, somewhere makes a cast iron sleeve that will work. forget about that Micky Mouse block mod, go ahead and figure out a way to put a cast iron sleeve in it and be done with it.
Chrysler and Chev had problems with head seal on their aluminium block with cast iron heads. Both had open deck surfaces as seen on those Ford engines. Chrysler had a number of head gasket updates trying to cure head gasket sealing issues. I believe the forces created on the major and minor thrust surfaces of the cylinder walls causes the cylinder to move/vibrate "left and right".
In the days of the fuel crisis, Detroit Diesel designed their first 4 stroke V8 medium duty diesel. One feature was an open deck surface. Detroit Diesel had a long list of head gasket upgrades and eventually tooling and procedure to drill and tap the blocks for 15mm head bolts from the factory 14mm. It was my theory that they should have had closed decks. A machine shop could have cut the outside tops of the liners and around the inside of the block outer walls to fit a 5/16" or 1/2" plate that could be tapped into place to hold the tops of the liners from doing a Texas Two Step.
I saw a YT vid of a guy im the US who straightens warped heads as he says that otherwise the cam bearings are misligned and can cause further problems, any thoughts?
It could be that the block is actually twisting when it is revved hard. Possibly even a resonance problem. This would explain why it has problems with it's head seal and big end bearing failure. This might explain why Ford engines are different to Volvo ones, especially when Ford cheapened out on the build quality.
agree
There’s also a replacement t hose available from Continental, although more expensive doesn’t rely on the glued T. Imagine that going on a high powered engine . It’s game over
The big end after the oil pump being changed, my guess is that the fitter got a tiny bit of sealant in the oilways when fitting, and it just clogged it enough to kill a big end bearing. And you say the Volvo engines, let's call a spade a spade here, it is originally the 5 pot Audi engine that Volvo copied and then Ford got hold of when they bought Volvo out, and as we all know, they didn't used to suffer from many engine problems in the Audi's, even sometimes running up to 700-800hp and revving to 8000rpm.
the volvo engine first saw the light as a 6 cylinder in 1990 nothing whatsoever to do with Audi ...
@@nickclark6001 so you say, that's not what I got told by a btcc mechanic, but I'm sure you know better than him eh...
@@Sennaxm71 Yes I hope so after 45 years working on them professionally 🙂
Stop spreading this nonsense.
Was called to a sales car that threw a rod , 2,5 5 pot Volvo . First I had ever seen . Gave the buyer his £950 back and turned the remains over to the local scrappy .He said "you r a soft one for giving chalkey his cash back. He told us he accidentally shifted it into 2nD instead of 4th gear at 80mph !!"
No good deed goes unpunished.
Wait till the Mk3's start to get a few miles on em... The last one of these I built was knackered because some clown had used silicon on the upper cam bearings/cam cover, instead of the correct stuff rolled on with a paint roller. Is the issue with these the fact that they are 2.5 litre? All the big power volvos of old were 2.3, so had thicker cylinder walls I believe?
All these 2,5T I have seen cracked had the cracks at either side of the area where cylinders are simmered. I figured the thermal expansion was restricted at the siamesed point and free to grow elsewhere leading to stress cracking. I don't see cylinder deck drop unless overheated.
Just listen to any ST or RS going down the road spitting and banging with loads of mods on......there's your answer right there!....then look at any Volvo T5 Police car which are also driven very hard...but maintained and not messed with and reach well over 150k before they are moved on...
Was the volvo old t5 engine an open deck block design?
Ive buildt several of these similar Volvo T5 2.3 and 2.5 engines with 400-700hp range and very seldom problems with them after doing the correct modifications to them. Some of my customers already used them 2-3 seasons in drifting cars too.
Good video.
The slot between the cylinders is not as deep on the RS engine, the deeper slot on the ST does allow more bore distortion and leads to more cracked liners.
When forged, and with the shims and a re-bore they can be safe up to 600hp, if the liners are replaced they go to 1000hp and are OK.
My 300hp Mk2 ST broke two piston ring lands, I think it was due to a bad map.
No one seems to mention the incorrect fuel pressure due to the fuel pressure sensors being crap. They don’t throw a fault code but you can see it on live data that the fuel pressure drops and you can feel it when doing a linear boost pull.
It is the completely open deck design. Nothing holding the tops of the cylinders. With the amount of torque in those engines the tops of the cylinders scrub front to back basically scratching the gasket like it's a lottery ticket. Only a matter of time before the gasket blows flooding the cylinders with coolant
Pop bang remaps and tuning most probably arent the ford block liners thinner than the volvo ones
There’s a proprietary hose connection that always fails in the cooling system. It’s like a T glued together with a plastic coupler. The air box needs to come out to change.
Aye, from what I've seen the cooling system does seem to be a weak point.
I'm not fully up with my precision engineering knowledge, could the big end issue be a result of the block warping?
Blocks Warp Because of Thermal Mass accumulation When you Subject Thin Areas Of Metal To Temp's Greater than what Stock Components are Designed To Do Then You are Pushing the Limits Of Many Internal Components Resulting in Greater thermal Mass at Weak Areas On Modern Engines. They are No Longer Made to last In a Car Or Truck. Ford are Now the worlds worst when it comes to Weak Component's. Can No Do One without Doing the Others to Suit the Task.
I do not know how the two engines relate, but we had a 2007 2.0 petrol Ford Focus, had done more than 200.000 miles with it and never had an issue until we sold it. Also most of the miles were inside the city, i.e. a lot of traffic and many parkings during each day. In essence the worst type of mileage for an engine.
The st blocks are shite. Being open deck and having slots between the sleeves they cook the water causing shrinkage/cracks. The face lift St's have deeper slots to attempt to prevent the water from boiling thus causing overheating. I've come across this problem many times standard/modified.
The rs variant of the engine has plasma coated liners, which prevents the liners from cracking unless your running serious power.
Block mod works but is not a guarantee it still can fail.
Even dropping Darton liners into a block comes with risks where the sleave cam actually move and damage the head gasket.
Also into consideration being open deck is the issue off bore wobble.
Overrun maps not fully igniting fuel which then thins oil....., also dickheads not warming them up and thrashing them. I have abstained from BM partly due to cost weighed against likelihood and car value and also because I believed the BM must move/distort cylinders - thanks for confirming that 👍
I was going to say maybe manufacturing and quality of raw materials used , but then its the ST , Sanitary Towel Ford .
LittleBleeders that rag em around coz daddy paid the Insurance , I admit some owners must like and care for them .
The numbers i saw of these seemed to have dwindled in recent years ,maybe what makes up the second hand spares market if they've been written off or so.
Still like the T5 Volvo more as Ive winessed 1st hand how nice they are to ride in ...
I see what you did there! Little bleeders & Sanitary towel Ford.
@@Screwy9758 Thanks ✌
I believe it's from Low speed pre ignition (lspi) it cracks blocks smashes bearings blows ring lands to pieces lifts heads bends rods ect.
lspi is often known as super knock it occurs in low engine speed high boost conditions like accelerating at full boost full load under 2500rpm lspi is becoming more frequent especially in turbocharged direct injected petrol motors but it can most definitely still happen in mpfi too
No youre describing the inherent issues with the mk3 focus ST and RS engines, which are ford engines with direct injection. This is the mk2 focus ST engine, designed by volvo which has port injection.
Lspi is rare on fords.
Mazda and Hyundai had massive issues with it.
What I heard from a Volvo (Swedish) person developing the C1 platform, for å long time ago. These 5 cylindets problems in the Ford ST is probably related to some of you assumption. During the development of the ST Ford wrecked many engines. A team from Sweden found out that Ford did different assumption in the design phase. The estimated predicted lifetime was shorter, something like Volvo aimed for ~15year, while Ford~10 year lifetime. This made all Ford system simpler, and engine running hotter(smaller coolers an so on)
What are you talking about? The intercooler and radiator are shared between the focus and c30 of the same era. Ford tested the engines by running them for a week long at 6000rpm without failure. The T5 engine in the mk2 focus ST is 100% unchanged from what volvo fitted into their cars, the only notable difference is the ecu map which included a mild ignition cut on the fords.
@@lastexile1187 That wasn't a real world test though. It probably only went through one careful warm up. And the real problem may not be in the startup but in the cool down. When I had tuned engines if I had been going quick I would always drive slower the last mile or so home. Sometimes you can get localised hot spots once the engine is turned off and the water ceases to flow and do the damage at that stage. I have had old style engines that after a journey would tick over ok and then blow the rad cap when you switched it off if you hadn't allowed it to cool while running first.
Thought the block mod was a con on the 5254t3 motor. I have c30 t5.
Think only way to tune these effectively get decent safe power. Is to forge the engine along with using decent sleeves like Darton.
It's probably caused by the Nut behind the steering wheel!! I have seen a lot of these cars getting hammered at car shows and suffering a lot with a lack of servicing...
Hi I've recently come across your you tube channel and enjoy your work. I have a st with the volvo engine in, since I bought the vehicle back in 2015 I've had an issue with low oil pressure at idle when cold. Get it up to normal running temp all good.
I've rebuilt my engine new bearings oil pump etc, 6 months after rebuild happening again. I have confirmed when oil light comes on I have zero oil pressure, any ideas what it could be, I was planning on stripping it again and getting the crank checked
After a bit of varnish builds up from fried oil, on cold starts, is the pressure relief valve setting off and sticking, then releasing when the temps come up?
Just a random comment as I appreciate your opinion, is the 3.0 Citroen V6 3.0 bio turbo a dangerous engine to get involved with? Just looking for some advice...
I had the block mod carried out at Dreamscience at Hull. Mines Mountune MP260 + turbo back 3" exhaust, so probably about 270 hp I guess. There are std cars that run fine with no cracking etc. I did the b/m just as a matter of preventive maintenance. Oh, and replace the oil every 6k. Had my St for 10 years now, bought at 32k now I'm just over 90k.
There was a recall for the head gasket when the rs first came out as far as I remember…
Big end issues might be something to do with big end torques being out, maybe there is the odd one out of spec from factory due to bad quality control…
Wrong grade of oil might cause issues..
Head gasket issues was on the mk3 2.3 EcoBoost engine as far as I know the 2.5 mk2 st and rs had no such problem
Yea that was the mk3 generation with the ford engine, this video is discussing the mk2 volvo engines
The voice of the Geico Gecko. Neat
Steel girdle for the mains. Machine 4 bores about an inch down between cylinders and block walls and weld in aluminum dowels of the correct size to reduce bore movement. Open deck blocks not my cup of tea.
I'm thinking about a Mondeo Titanium X 59 plate with the 2.5T engine. Watching this is giving me doubt now to whether I should get it. It's done 140,000 miles. Still got the rear twin downturned exhaust pipes. Have you had many of these from Mondeo's in to the workshop? Did Police with the volvo and mondeo's with the 2.5T have the same issues?
Never understood why they didn't use the Volvo 2.3 or 2.4 engines for the Focus, I've got a remapped 2.3 850 T5 wagon with a 16T and white injectors with a Rica 304 remap and it's been bombproof in the 8 years ive owned it. Had an S70 2.3 T5 as well and that was no trouble.
I heard the original Volvo T5 lump didnt fit across the frame rails in the Focus so Ford developed a "short" version to squeeze it in, engineering out a lot of the Volvo's original safety margin over-engineering to make it happen. Ford had by then taken over Volvo and I guess they decided to use this version in later Volvo models instead of the 2.3 T5 lump to save money keeping 2 versions in production. I have to say (having removed, repaired and replaced the engine on an ST due to the ends being run on it, scoring the crank) that its a bloody tight fit!! 850 T5 EVERY TIME!
That was a low on oil failure btw, the car was only about 4 years old, low mileage, but idiot customer cracked the sump having run out of talent racing someone (it was chipped) and reversed it over a kerb at speed, then was too tight to buy a new sump and fixed it with JB weld. This wonderful bodge failed and the oil fell out. By the time the oil light came in it had run an end.
@@neilhewitt2761 2.3 and 2.4 Volvo T5's are bombproof mate, My 850 2.3 T5 is on an Oblark map on an M4.4 ecu, I'm not sure of the bhp/Torque on this map but it goes like stink! i previously run it on a Rica 304 on the M4.3 with a 16T and white injectors, Was putting out about 280 bhp/300NM on that map and i ragged the crap out of it, No split liners or big end probs on a 2.3 mate, Running 10W60 oil as recommended by Tim Williams.
i watched a vid, on youtube somewhere awhile back about this problem, and they seemed to think one of the waterways is too close to the cyclinder wall and thats where it goes, then leaks water into that cylinder ( wish i could remember which cylinder !) causing a bit of a hydrolock scenario and either doing the main bearing in or some cases con rod failure....any help ?... great vids by the way. and ford are aware of the problem alledgedly..
I have a mate down here in Australia that did the big end on cylinder 5 in his 04 Volvo S60R after getting it tuned, needless to say he drives it HARD...Which explains the 1 point left on his license.
It makes me think that the demographic that drives the Ford ST are also driving the cars beyond the engines limits.
Darton sleeves are the way to go, steel rods and get all the components dynamic balanced...
I've got a 96 Volvo 850 t5- about 140k miles, still good- would you be able to point me in the right direction for a tweak or 2?
Possibly the super low viscosity oil + thrashing then add in a bit of oil surge=bearings dead.
I just watched an interesting vid and the gent was suggesting detonation and head lifting. There was a witness mark left by the stock head bolt leaving an indentation.and less clamping pressure. What happened to iron blocks?
And this is why I’d never buy a car that has been mapped or modded.
@@dizzy2020 Thankfully I don’t have to bother I buy my cars brand new & let someone like yourself Lewis Gambleton destroy them 😏
If it wasn't mapped when built it wouldn't run 👍🤣
@@TheWildPikey Okay then remapped 😂🤦♂️
Just watched a video about RS engines same problem, they said it’s the cylinder head gasket two holes between the cylinder in the gasket and only one hole does anything, ford now do a undated head gasket, don’t think this is a complete cure, could be worth a watch
Too much power from the engine creates unreliability plus add a spotty youth and BANG !
you mentioned the engines being hot a bunch, its aluminium, it can be annealed, so potentially the aluminium alloy of the head is such that in combination with running hot, it self-anneals and goes softer and then is more prone to warping? have you run a hardness tester and compared it to a new head or a head of a block known to not warp?
Service by the book and no cheap oil.
The delta intergraly was a 3000 mile between Service. Back in the day young lads bought them as they were cheap. BUT they missed Services and started to get problems.
Without that FSH the car then became worthless.
It looks like my st has just succumbed to this cracked liner issue, whats the kind of cost involved in having it repaired including shipping it both ways? Im in the uk
Volvo T5 engine are common engine swaps here in sweden and 500+ hp is not uncommon... there are some specific things that has become common knowledge here among racers/ drifers when it comes to making these engines last. First stouter rods then a girdle or sleeves then pistons... The bores cracking is probably the most common flaw in these engines at "high" output. shimming will help but the shim has to be aluminium the right size and not forced in... some people here put precise aluminium shims and lightly tap them down and tac them ligtly to keep them in place.
I dont know these fords but volvo engines come in 83 and 81mm bores and the 81mm bores hold for more power... Its also possible to modify a volvo diesel block (D5) to run a T5 cylinder head. The diesel blocks are way more stout!
If a shim is put in it should be bored and honed WITH a stressplate and crank girdle on and torqued!
I dont know what ford specs the bearing tolerances to but volvos specs are way too tight for high hp, its most common to go up in bearing to crank clerance.
The overheating issue is not a well known problem in volvo engines but it IS known that these waterpumps cavitate when revving high 6k+, track cars usually run with a bigger gear on the waterpump.
I have seen sometime that when assembling the engine the metal clip that routes water in the back of the waterjacket is forgotten and overheating as a result... as well as mounting a headgasket from another model and not moving the clip with overheating as a result...
These cranks are really stout! Ive seen cars with 1000+hp running (the later and lighter) stock crank and stock main bearings reliably. The problem is the block twisting and bending at the crank resulting in failure, diesel blocks are way better in this regard!
I drive a Volvo 945 with a T5 swap as my daily driver, best sounding engine ever! :)
Hi mate where can I find detail of such d5 block modifications to use t5 head?
Hi ya. When I hear the head warped and it is machined flat . I then wonder about the space/volume would not be the same for all the head chambers. would you then do checks and remedial work to bring them back to being all the same ? As for the block distorting and being machined flat surely that means the line of where the crank sits would possibly need line boring. I am not a mechanic and have only worked on a couple of mini engines and am just an sheetmetal worker fabricator engineer . Hope to hear thoughts on the above. regards Don.
I had Mazda MPS 2.3. I did timing and cleaned the head. Was lucky but never had problems with it and boosting all the time 😁
I have not seen anyone mention it but the cheapest horsepower adder is nitrous. The heat generated is tremendous and can really cook a poorly tuned engine. I don’t know much about these small engines.
I own a 5 cylinder RS and never see anyone in the mk2 RS scene have engine issues. The volvo lump in the RS is mostly different to the on ST. It has lots of different internal parts. The liners are different for a start and are made from plasma so don't get the cracking issues. On the other hand I hear lots about ST engines failing. The seem to be weaker.(probably because they run less power)
The overheating issue is more than likely down to failing radiators. They're prone to corrosion on the bottom edges on both the ST and RS.
I think the block mod on the ST is a bit of a con, especially on standard cars.
Could it be from owners not using manufacturers oil spec and correct service intervals. I own a BMW and it seems critical that spec oil is used.
They said that the movement wears out the gasket between the cylinders
In terms of the bores could the warp not be due to the differential sleeve thickness top to bottom. where they are butted up they look pretty thin, so if it got pretty warm id imagine that would be a problem.
Are these engines standard, or have they been remapped or modified?
Are these engines prone to air-locks if oil filters are removed while the sump is empty during a service? Perhaps resulting in an extended running period before running oil pressure is achieved?
Doesn’t explain the overheating of course. Open deck blocks with gaps between the bores is surely not good engineering. Its probably done to allow individual expansions of the bores but it leaves the bores pretty much bottom anchored but unsupported at the top where the heat and combustion pressure is highest. Are the bores meant to be higher that the block outer walls, so that they are compressed somewhat for support?