this is a important topic, i have mine set to 180hz. when you got two capable subwoofers, you have so much benefits from letting them to more work, the smaller the mains the more you benefit. to get all the benefits you nede dsp to high pass the mains and low pass the subwoofers and set those to stereo. now you can get small two way mains and it becomes a large 3 way system that plays loud, are full range and have all the kick up the upper bass like only the largest speakers does. and you can place the main speaker for sound quality and ignore any bass problem.
I would've said you're crazy until I tried a 118Hz crossover and preferred it. Although, I also have a Ascendo. I don't know if it would've sounded as good with my Polks, but probably higher sounds don't need as big of an amp, and if I get expensive subs with expensive high-power amps, I'm fine.
I have my crossover set to 118Hz after my Ascendo change for a few reasons. I thought it wound sound bad and localize the bass which is why I did a 70Hz crossover before, but now that I have 4 x 18" subs in each corner, I noticed I can't localize bass at all, and it sounds great with a higher crossover. I PREFERRED IT! WHAT? But mainly because my Ascendos don't measure well down at 80Hz in my room because they're sitting on stands and not up against a wall.
I wished he gave answer without talking what kind of speakers he wants to make. He was more selfpromoting then answering. I got nothing from this unfortunately. Maybe its my bad, but I would really like a straightforward answer on something like: “My tower front goes to 34hz. Should I use 60 or 80 crossover ?” I get it that I should not use it as full range speaker. But this subtle difference between 60 and 80 makes a lot of difference in sound.
You were proponent of 60 hz crossover in the past though, since you could localize and hear king kong stomping in the back channels etc.. I think I remember you discussing this with Gene, when he suggested 80 hz should be used. Do you still believe that if speaker is capable of below 80 hz frequencies, you should use that?
I find it funny that this subject still comes up. People argue that (ideally) all speakers should be full range. Example: because they can "hear" the direction from where the bass comes from. You just can't localize the sub 80 hz range (actually higher). But even if you could localize low-end bass, it would be so difficult to calibrate for your room if all speakers were full range. You need independent control on the low end where your room takes over.
I do agree on 80hz to be the standard. Its a nice balance between, not having subwoofer canceling/peaking problems and not having the localisation problem if a higher frequancy. But there is a small problem when you design a speaker to have an F3 at 80hz. You need to add that 80hz crossover in order for the proccessor to send the bass information to the LFE channel instead of the speakers. If you have a speaker with an f3 at 80 and that crossover will add a filter to make the 80hz be at f3, now you have double the "crossover". The processor doesn't know that your speaker can't play below 80hz, it think it can play as flat as a straight line. So this will make the 80hz region a bit wonky as it will get filtered out a bit too much. If it was more like an f3 of 60hz designed speaker that woudn't be that much of a problem. I guess you could EQ that 80hz region to bring back those 3db losses, so ye. Pros and Cons.
The real problem is that sound is subjective to each and every person. Sound is different for everyone so one person saying 80HZ sounds best to them, keyword " Them". Means that it's not necessarily going to sound good for anyone else. People are pushing their personal sound settings onto others like it's automatically going to sound good to them. Sound doesn't work like that.
So what he's saying is if you have a less powerful amplifier your main speaker will suffer if you said it lower than 80. But what if you have a substantial amplifier why do a crossover at 80, make it full.
I blend my main speakers into my subs. Main speakers are set to full and they do really well Down to 20 hz. I think this sharpens lower bass as my subwoofer is quite large and not as sharp. So I get rumble and sharpness, the best of both worlds.
this is a important topic, i have mine set to 180hz.
when you got two capable subwoofers, you have so much benefits from letting them to more work, the smaller the mains the more you benefit.
to get all the benefits you nede dsp to high pass the mains and low pass the subwoofers and set those to stereo. now you can get small two way mains and it becomes a large 3 way system that plays loud, are full range and have all the kick up the upper bass like only the largest speakers does. and you can place the main speaker for sound quality and ignore any bass problem.
I would've said you're crazy until I tried a 118Hz crossover and preferred it. Although, I also have a Ascendo. I don't know if it would've sounded as good with my Polks, but probably higher sounds don't need as big of an amp, and if I get expensive subs with expensive high-power amps, I'm fine.
I have my crossover set to 118Hz after my Ascendo change for a few reasons. I thought it wound sound bad and localize the bass which is why I did a 70Hz crossover before, but now that I have 4 x 18" subs in each corner, I noticed I can't localize bass at all, and it sounds great with a higher crossover. I PREFERRED IT! WHAT? But mainly because my Ascendos don't measure well down at 80Hz in my room because they're sitting on stands and not up against a wall.
That's exactly why Ken KREISEL drivers are 5.25' hopefully will see his new products and in for reviews in 2023
I have all my speakers set to 80HZ and they sound fantastic
I wished he gave answer without talking what kind of speakers he wants to make.
He was more selfpromoting then answering. I got nothing from this unfortunately.
Maybe its my bad, but I would really like a straightforward answer on something like: “My tower front goes to 34hz. Should I use 60 or 80 crossover ?”
I get it that I should not use it as full range speaker. But this subtle difference between 60 and 80 makes a lot of difference in sound.
You were proponent of 60 hz crossover in the past though, since you could localize and hear king kong stomping in the back channels etc.. I think I remember you discussing this with Gene, when he suggested 80 hz should be used. Do you still believe that if speaker is capable of below 80 hz frequencies, you should use that?
I would take some measurements and see what your speakers are capable of and see how it sounds from there.
I prefer 90hz crossover in my space
Very good advice
I find it funny that this subject still comes up. People argue that (ideally) all speakers should be full range. Example: because they can "hear" the direction from where the bass comes from. You just can't localize the sub 80 hz range (actually higher). But even if you could localize low-end bass, it would be so difficult to calibrate for your room if all speakers were full range. You need independent control on the low end where your room takes over.
Exactly. When Digital Sound arrived back in Laserdiscs full range speaker where recommended. Good old days vs good new days.
Hey Shane are you going to be able to do a review on the spatial calibration that techno dad has out? I wanted to know what you think about it.
If it was $20, it would be worth it.
I do agree on 80hz to be the standard. Its a nice balance between, not having subwoofer canceling/peaking problems and not having the localisation problem if a higher frequancy.
But there is a small problem when you design a speaker to have an F3 at 80hz. You need to add that 80hz crossover in order for the proccessor to send the bass information to the LFE channel instead of the speakers. If you have a speaker with an f3 at 80 and that crossover will add a filter to make the 80hz be at f3, now you have double the "crossover". The processor doesn't know that your speaker can't play below 80hz, it think it can play as flat as a straight line. So this will make the 80hz region a bit wonky as it will get filtered out a bit too much.
If it was more like an f3 of 60hz designed speaker that woudn't be that much of a problem. I guess you could EQ that 80hz region to bring back those 3db losses, so ye. Pros and Cons.
For some reason in my home I get the best crossover at 50HZ. My subwoofers start rattling my living room window seals at 120Hz.
bass trap?
The real problem is that sound is subjective to each and every person. Sound is different for everyone so one person saying 80HZ sounds best to them, keyword " Them". Means that it's not necessarily going to sound good for anyone else. People are pushing their personal sound settings onto others like it's automatically going to sound good to them. Sound doesn't work like that.
So what he's saying is if you have a less powerful amplifier your main speaker will suffer if you said it lower than 80. But what if you have a substantial amplifier why do a crossover at 80, make it full.
THX back in his days proposed 80hz crossover point. But different systems yields different results.
I blend my main speakers into my subs. Main speakers are set to full and they do really well Down to 20 hz. I think this sharpens lower bass as my subwoofer is quite large and not as sharp. So I get rumble and sharpness, the best of both worlds.
Can I use 80hz for satellite speakers?
That's too general of a question. It depends on the satellite speakers. Just generally speaking, satellites are best near the 100- 120 range.
120 hz