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Probably should give it a name I worry the consistency joke may fall flat on new viewers when we actually become consistent at some point May have to sporadically and periodically go on unannounced hiatuses to keep the meme alive
@@TCG_Staxwell I see that you either commit to the bit and work to actually make it a consistent thing. If people ask you could just say that you chose the name Consistency then you can say that it was you and Sneeple challenging yourselves to become consistent in this. Or go another route where it is a once a month type thing BUT you don't know when it is. Might be the first of the month, might be the last of the month. Who knows. Something dumb but fun.
A large part of why CYB didn't appear in armories and casual events is because of people having gentlemen agreements and not bringing toxic 50min matches to a normal Friday night
Speak for your own community, hahaha We got some net decking guys that immediately jumped on to count your blessings. One played defensive enigma with count your blessings, that sucked, every round went to time, and then he auto wins due to life total being higher. If going to time was a hard draw or auto lose for both players, I think it might deter players from building in scummy ways to push to round time and win by life total.
@hamsandwich6685 Sorry, my friend, but now you know, so you can stop it! Also, it may be good for someone to take some judge tests to help ensure things are running in a fair way for everyone playing your locals?
CYB creates a negative play pattern for the low-to-mid level environment. FaB is still in a place where it could fall prey to a couple bad environments ruining the ability to bring new players into the game and to showcase the best of what FaB has to offer.
I do disagree on the Summit vs Titan's Fist discussion Oldhim only had Fist, and at that time it was enough, because the only deck in the meta that could setup (real) offensive overlaps to kill a control deck before 2nd cycle, was Lexi post Outsider (No one was on katsu, and even if, Katsu has a worse AoW than Zen, and he need to hit to trigger Lynx and his hero power, and him discarding a lot makes him weak to fatigue strategies) Today, if you swing Titan's fist at anyone, they are just gonna take 3-4, then have a offensive turn with a full hand (+arsenal) This is not 2021 anymore, player's knowledge improved and the cardpool allows huge setup turns to go over the "block 14 per turn until you run out of red attacks" strategy Coronet peak as the merit to guarantee a card stripped of your opponents hand (which is 4 value into aggro), and doesn't need you to pitch a 3cost to have that 4 value Summit is still a mid weapon imo, but the on hit makes it better in a 2025 meta in which YOU NEED to interact with your opponent, because if you just do math and allows your opp to play solitaire, we get to that Sam Sutherland vs Matt Rogers moment at Day2 worlds
I think there's still plenty of interactions because of ice itself. You don't need coronet peak if you have blizzard, CLF, Hypothermia, Frost Fang, etc. So even if some times you swing the hammer for 3-4, you won't do that the majority of times. Paying 6 for conditional disruption and conditional +2 value is my problem with the weapon.
Notably there is likely 1 unrevealed M, and likely a reprinted M at 3 copies based on the spoilers. (Being 4 missing Ms from the spoilers vs release notes). He could have a legendary 1 of majestic missing. Listening to you guys, it could also be a shield
As per what the community thinks about, count your blessings flow. I would argue that you are correct. It's not that bad of a card set, but you have to give a little bit to the community. I would argue that I think Bright Lights as a set is one of the most fascinating sets and it is a set that I would say is a set for other mechanics people. Sort of like a joke that only other comedians would find funny or in my own profession. A digital receiver with a special setup using a specific algorithm that only other signal processing Engineers would look at and go. That's really cool. Count your blessings in a vacuum I don't believe is bad and I think that people who are fascinated by mechanics like this in fatigue. Find it amazing, but it's not something that the community enjoys playing against and when the community are the people that are buying the vast majority of the product, they have a say that is valid about what is fun and is not fun
I’m happy with the blue banning of CYB, mostly for exact reason stated, the life gain available for all 9 CYB was too much fatigue in Enigma for currently available prevention. HO ban also good, induction chamber still exists and if it gets out early might be very consistent.
I can appreciate the high octane ban I really do. I've played several dozen dashes and the gameplay for any of the competent ones always ends the same way with me getting annihilated when they draw into their high octane processor. Terms and the comment that they made about the gun absolutely rang true with me because the competent ones have six counters on their gun and they just empty 12 damage into me that I can't do anything about because they've accumulated so many action points. What kept high octane in check before was the fact that the gun actually cost something to load. The conversion rate between action points and damage was not as direct with a gun that synergizes or with the character to give free shots. Now you can form a direct conversion of action point to damage, let alone the fact it draws a card to replace itself
So maybe if they printed a mech gun that was the same as symbiosis but costed one, then they could ban symbiosis and unban high octane 👀. Won't happen but fun to theorize
If CYB was banned bc of community sentiment, it would be the first time that ever happened in FaB, right? I remember a past interview about the BnR where Gottlieb basically told players who didn't like their ban decisions to take a break from the game. This makes me think either they have shifted their approach to BnR and community sentiment (IMO a good thing) or all the people screaming into the sky about CYB had a point (which makes sense to me).
I do think it made for a terrible viewer experience so it could not be based completely on community sentiment. But, I think art of war being banned was also heavily influenced by community sentiment
I said it on DMArmada's channel and Ill say it here, CYB isnt an OP card, the majority of community frustration I think subconciously comes from the nature of how FAB was built, which is your hero gets weaker the longer a game goes (losing equipment, blue pitch cards 2nd/3rd cycle, etc.) CYB goes against the nature of heroes getting weaker as the game goes on, and even gets stronger as the game goes on, and thats where i think the frustration comes from
Its just so one-minded though as there are many playstyles and heroes that do the opposite of this. I get that when you learn FaB, this is the mantra that makes sense, but as you learn different play styles and heroes that quickly changes.
@SNEEP. it's not one-minded at all; if it is, that would mean every card game from MTG to HS to Lorcana to whatever is one minded. Fatigue, in all card games, has always been a secondary win condition to prevent ties. Play styles are defined by the way you progress towards the primary win condition, which is where a majority of the variance lies. Of all the card games I've played, other than amateur developed ones I tested in my Traditional Game Design class, Flesh & Blood is absolutely not one-minded. The core problem for decks that prioritize fatigue as a win condition is the disconnect between the 2 (or more) players. Once the fatigue deck is able to execute their game plan efficiently each turn, the game state alters to the point where the opposite player isn't playing their deck as they've built it. This is problem number 1. Number 2 is the mechanic of fatigue itself. Fatigue should always be a last resort, not a primary option. When building a card game, you don't go "the primary goal of this game is to have your opponent run out of cards in deck first before you do, and maybe you can kill them with damage". That's called solitaire with damage. Which leads to the last and probably the most important: fun. Fatigue decks, historically, have never been fun to play against, and get boring fast to play with. I played with and against MTGs Codex Shredder, I played with and against fatigue-lock when the DKs were first released in HS, and while anecdotal and opinionated, it's boring. This brings us to FAB, where I do believe, compared to Codex shredder and fatigue-lock, CYB is the worst version of fatigue to play against, and FAB fatigue decks are the worst of all card games because of how repetitive the gameplay is; it's legitimately a simple pitch to weapon, block efficiently, pass turn. I'm 5-0 against fatigue decks the last 2 weeks doing exactly that as Dori and Florian, you literally need no counter-play. CYB also resets any game progress toward that primary goal, which can be draining for a lot of players because they execute an awesome game plan only for it to not matter whatsoever; equivalent to playing a PS2 game with no memory card. Stax probably likes playing against fatigue because he's a yugioh player and gets excited when he's able to play more than 2 turns. That being said, I'm not completely against the design of CYB. I think CYB, just like Art of War, Bonds, Awakening, etc., should be errata'd. I think it should be a majestic blue (can only play the blues) that heal X+3 and should cost 1 instead of 2.
Interesting that they only banned count your blessings Blue. Red and Yellow are still legal. I hope Maxx and Dash get something to replace high octane. Right now, they join Fai in my deck collection...
I'll be honest across all my viserai decks on talashar I have between an 80 and 90% win rate and the saddest part of this is it's killing my drive to play my favorite hero.
You were going to play cyb despite disliking playing cyb and that doesn't jive at all with how the community feels? For the record, I didn't feel that cyb needed to be banned. I never had any trouble playing against it. I don't think on talashar. I've ever lost a match to somebody who played it, even the enigmas. Then again I play viserai
Good point, but it was mainly that I didn't want to play Enigma not so much CyB. I actually love CyB and would play it in other heroes if Enigma wasn't so oppressive with it.
I miss when the cards LSS would ban came as a surprise, when bans aimed only to target consistency within a strategy rather than a strategy itself. What if they'd banned Boom Grenade instead of High Octane?
So glad that the Consistency Podcast is back with the Lads! Always excited to hear about your thoughts for this week!
it shall be named consistency podcast
Probably should give it a name
I worry the consistency joke may fall flat on new viewers when we actually become consistent at some point
May have to sporadically and periodically go on unannounced hiatuses to keep the meme alive
@@TCG_Staxwell I see that you either commit to the bit and work to actually make it a consistent thing. If people ask you could just say that you chose the name Consistency then you can say that it was you and Sneeple challenging yourselves to become consistent in this.
Or go another route where it is a once a month type thing BUT you don't know when it is. Might be the first of the month, might be the last of the month. Who knows. Something dumb but fun.
A large part of why CYB didn't appear in armories and casual events is because of people having gentlemen agreements and not bringing toxic 50min matches to a normal Friday night
Word on that.
Speak for your own community, hahaha
We got some net decking guys that immediately jumped on to count your blessings. One played defensive enigma with count your blessings, that sucked, every round went to time, and then he auto wins due to life total being higher.
If going to time was a hard draw or auto lose for both players, I think it might deter players from building in scummy ways to push to round time and win by life total.
Going to time is an auto draw, life totals make no difference if we go to time.
@chillibalmer okay well then our locals is doing it wrong and ends up rewarding scummy fatigue life gain decks.
@hamsandwich6685 Sorry, my friend, but now you know, so you can stop it! Also, it may be good for someone to take some judge tests to help ensure things are running in a fair way for everyone playing your locals?
CYB creates a negative play pattern for the low-to-mid level environment. FaB is still in a place where it could fall prey to a couple bad environments ruining the ability to bring new players into the game and to showcase the best of what FaB has to offer.
LL is the most fun format for me! Briar is there. Haha
Honestly the only reason I want to mess around in the format. Congrats on the top btw
Did you post a list anywhere?
I do disagree on the Summit vs Titan's Fist discussion
Oldhim only had Fist, and at that time it was enough, because the only deck in the meta that could setup (real) offensive overlaps to kill a control deck before 2nd cycle, was Lexi post Outsider
(No one was on katsu, and even if, Katsu has a worse AoW than Zen, and he need to hit to trigger Lynx and his hero power, and him discarding a lot makes him weak to fatigue strategies)
Today, if you swing Titan's fist at anyone, they are just gonna take 3-4, then have a offensive turn with a full hand (+arsenal)
This is not 2021 anymore, player's knowledge improved and the cardpool allows huge setup turns to go over the "block 14 per turn until you run out of red attacks" strategy
Coronet peak as the merit to guarantee a card stripped of your opponents hand (which is 4 value into aggro), and doesn't need you to pitch a 3cost to have that 4 value
Summit is still a mid weapon imo, but the on hit makes it better in a 2025 meta in which YOU NEED to interact with your opponent, because if you just do math and allows your opp to play solitaire, we get to that Sam Sutherland vs Matt Rogers moment at Day2 worlds
I think there's still plenty of interactions because of ice itself. You don't need coronet peak if you have blizzard, CLF, Hypothermia, Frost Fang, etc. So even if some times you swing the hammer for 3-4, you won't do that the majority of times. Paying 6 for conditional disruption and conditional +2 value is my problem with the weapon.
CYB is what I would describe as ‘extreme defensive overlap’.
Favorite weekly podcast. Haven’t even missed a single week since the very beginning
Rare to see someone still here from the very beginning! A true OG.
All jokes aside, thank you ❤️
Notably there is likely 1 unrevealed M, and likely a reprinted M at 3 copies based on the spoilers. (Being 4 missing Ms from the spoilers vs release notes). He could have a legendary 1 of majestic missing. Listening to you guys, it could also be a shield
As per what the community thinks about, count your blessings flow. I would argue that you are correct. It's not that bad of a card set, but you have to give a little bit to the community. I would argue that I think Bright Lights as a set is one of the most fascinating sets and it is a set that I would say is a set for other mechanics people. Sort of like a joke that only other comedians would find funny or in my own profession. A digital receiver with a special setup using a specific algorithm that only other signal processing Engineers would look at and go. That's really cool. Count your blessings in a vacuum I don't believe is bad and I think that people who are fascinated by mechanics like this in fatigue. Find it amazing, but it's not something that the community enjoys playing against and when the community are the people that are buying the vast majority of the product, they have a say that is valid about what is fun and is not fun
I’m happy with the blue banning of CYB, mostly for exact reason stated, the life gain available for all 9 CYB was too much fatigue in Enigma for currently available prevention. HO ban also good, induction chamber still exists and if it gets out early might be very consistent.
MAXWELL AND ERIC DISCUSSION VIDEO LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOO
lend me a cig for that!!
We make it for the long work commuters 🫡🫡
The second monitor while doing something more importanters 🫡🫡
If you are bored, WE WILL YAPP
I think another problem is that some cards are too OP in a 9xof.
Viserai's crazy winrate is in large part due to a talishar bug that submitted an enormous amount of vis v florian wins
Figured something had to gone astray
I expect a shield for jarl in the set, blade break that reduces the cost of the weapon
Ok now we are cooking
I can appreciate the high octane ban I really do. I've played several dozen dashes and the gameplay for any of the competent ones always ends the same way with me getting annihilated when they draw into their high octane processor. Terms and the comment that they made about the gun absolutely rang true with me because the competent ones have six counters on their gun and they just empty 12 damage into me that I can't do anything about because they've accumulated so many action points. What kept high octane in check before was the fact that the gun actually cost something to load. The conversion rate between action points and damage was not as direct with a gun that synergizes or with the character to give free shots. Now you can form a direct conversion of action point to damage, let alone the fact it draws a card to replace itself
So maybe if they printed a mech gun that was the same as symbiosis but costed one, then they could ban symbiosis and unban high octane 👀. Won't happen but fun to theorize
@SNEEP. High octane was made at a time when the gun costed 1 to load ... So there was a ceiling on how much you could get out of it
It was fan service like top many ppl complained so they had to do something
DIO is playing system-Roulette now
If CYB was banned bc of community sentiment, it would be the first time that ever happened in FaB, right? I remember a past interview about the BnR where Gottlieb basically told players who didn't like their ban decisions to take a break from the game. This makes me think either they have shifted their approach to BnR and community sentiment (IMO a good thing) or all the people screaming into the sky about CYB had a point (which makes sense to me).
I do think it made for a terrible viewer experience so it could not be based completely on community sentiment. But, I think art of war being banned was also heavily influenced by community sentiment
I said it on DMArmada's channel and Ill say it here, CYB isnt an OP card, the majority of community frustration I think subconciously comes from the nature of how FAB was built, which is your hero gets weaker the longer a game goes (losing equipment, blue pitch cards 2nd/3rd cycle, etc.)
CYB goes against the nature of heroes getting weaker as the game goes on, and even gets stronger as the game goes on, and thats where i think the frustration comes from
Its just so one-minded though as there are many playstyles and heroes that do the opposite of this. I get that when you learn FaB, this is the mantra that makes sense, but as you learn different play styles and heroes that quickly changes.
@SNEEP. it's not one-minded at all; if it is, that would mean every card game from MTG to HS to Lorcana to whatever is one minded. Fatigue, in all card games, has always been a secondary win condition to prevent ties. Play styles are defined by the way you progress towards the primary win condition, which is where a majority of the variance lies. Of all the card games I've played, other than amateur developed ones I tested in my Traditional Game Design class, Flesh & Blood is absolutely not one-minded.
The core problem for decks that prioritize fatigue as a win condition is the disconnect between the 2 (or more) players. Once the fatigue deck is able to execute their game plan efficiently each turn, the game state alters to the point where the opposite player isn't playing their deck as they've built it. This is problem number 1. Number 2 is the mechanic of fatigue itself. Fatigue should always be a last resort, not a primary option. When building a card game, you don't go "the primary goal of this game is to have your opponent run out of cards in deck first before you do, and maybe you can kill them with damage". That's called solitaire with damage. Which leads to the last and probably the most important: fun. Fatigue decks, historically, have never been fun to play against, and get boring fast to play with. I played with and against MTGs Codex Shredder, I played with and against fatigue-lock when the DKs were first released in HS, and while anecdotal and opinionated, it's boring.
This brings us to FAB, where I do believe, compared to Codex shredder and fatigue-lock, CYB is the worst version of fatigue to play against, and FAB fatigue decks are the worst of all card games because of how repetitive the gameplay is; it's legitimately a simple pitch to weapon, block efficiently, pass turn. I'm 5-0 against fatigue decks the last 2 weeks doing exactly that as Dori and Florian, you literally need no counter-play. CYB also resets any game progress toward that primary goal, which can be draining for a lot of players because they execute an awesome game plan only for it to not matter whatsoever; equivalent to playing a PS2 game with no memory card. Stax probably likes playing against fatigue because he's a yugioh player and gets excited when he's able to play more than 2 turns.
That being said, I'm not completely against the design of CYB. I think CYB, just like Art of War, Bonds, Awakening, etc., should be errata'd. I think it should be a majestic blue (can only play the blues) that heal X+3 and should cost 1 instead of 2.
Interesting that they only banned count your blessings Blue. Red and Yellow are still legal. I hope Maxx and Dash get something to replace high octane. Right now, they join Fai in my deck collection...
Maxx did nothing wrong 😞
Free my boy Belittle, he did nothing wrong
Trump better pardon him 🙏🙏
They will do the same to Jarl. They will ban some ice cards.
Yeah theres no way Jarl doesn't break something to the point of being oppressive. My money is on Stalagmite, its way too efficient.
One thing is for certain, people will complain about it on X
I'll be honest across all my viserai decks on talashar I have between an 80 and 90% win rate and the saddest part of this is it's killing my drive to play my favorite hero.
This is a real thing that affect many. There should be a name for it
@SNEEP. Alexander syndrome
You were going to play cyb despite disliking playing cyb and that doesn't jive at all with how the community feels?
For the record, I didn't feel that cyb needed to be banned. I never had any trouble playing against it. I don't think on talashar. I've ever lost a match to somebody who played it, even the enigmas. Then again I play viserai
Good point, but it was mainly that I didn't want to play Enigma not so much CyB. I actually love CyB and would play it in other heroes if Enigma wasn't so oppressive with it.
The weapon kinda sucks. NGL. Six cost is absolutely wild for a deck that has to play a bunch of elemental 2 blocks.
Being forced to play 2 blocks makes the weapon better? You can always convert 2 cards that block 2 into a 6 power attack with a On-hit?
@@TCG_Staxwell He means that you have to keep blues and block with reds which are two-blocks. I do think you can make builds to negate this though.
I don't think CYB is fun, even as a fatigue player.
I miss when the cards LSS would ban came as a surprise, when bans aimed only to target consistency within a strategy rather than a strategy itself. What if they'd banned Boom Grenade instead of High Octane?
I feel that too