Thanks Kyle for being honest and upfront about the vehicle without being off-putting or rude. It's refreshing to hear that instead of the rigid reviews that merely rattle off the specsheet.
I doubt that's the reason. They were the first company to double down on electrification in the early 2000's. Problem is they wanted hydrogen and solid state batteries to be their solution to the EV problem and didn't look at intermediate steps until they had too.
@@jhmcd2 Over the past 2 years I have come to believe that Toyota's electrification was just a ploy to be able to play on both sides as it has become abundantly clear that as the market is moving more and more to full EV they are throwing up as many roadblocks as they can to keep it from happening. Their claims of a Solid State battery are complete BS and again I think it is a ploy to keep current Toyota buyers from buying a competing car on the belief that Toyota will have a superior EV very soon. I have never owned a Toyota but always had a respect for the products they produce. I now have 0 respect for Toyota and plan to never own one of their products.
@@MBergyman So, intentionally blocking new technologies progress because your company bet on the wrong horse and putting out subpar products so as not to erode your existing products is something you applaud? Not exactly good long term business strategies.
Summary: Toyota 10 to 80 % : 58 minutes (Hyundai Ioniq 5/ Kia EV6: 18 mins in ideal condition. 35 mins in very cold condition) (Volkswagen ID.4: 35 mins in ideal condition. 38 mins in very cold condition) (Ford Mach-E: 43 mins in ideal condition) (Tesla Model Y: 36 mins in ideal condition) Toyota 10 to 90 % : 88 minutes Toyota 0 to 80 % : 62 minutes Toyota 0 to 90 % : 92 minutes So Toyota just broke the world record for the SLOWEST charging EV ever.
I was called to complete my order for the Subaru version. So very glad I saw this. Thank you Kyle. Saved me the I’ve 52k for the car plus’s dealer said there is a min $2500 mark up. So I was out the door at 60k before tax incentives for an adventure car I couldn’t take on an adventure
Kyle, I really appreciate your work on these videos. I have a reservation for a Solterra and wasn’t entirely sold on going through with the purchase. Now I am sure I won’t buy one because my ten year old Ford Focus Electric without DCFC somehow manages to charge faster at high SOC than this thing. It’s incredible that the Bolt is far superior on 10-90% despite 5 year old tech. Toyota *really* doesn’t want to sell EVs I guess
Subaru know the Solterra is not for long road trips that's why they include free ICE rentals: "Customers who lease or purchase a Solterra will receive up to 10 days of free Subaru rentals from their participating dealerships, enabling them to choose a gasoline-powered vehicle for road trips or other needs."
@@bmw803 "Toyota designed the battery architecture, body, and cabin, while Subaru handled the all-wheel-drive system" -TechCrunch. Maybe you forgot, but Toyota pioneered electric vehicles for the mass market. Remember in the 90's when everyone used to make fun of Prius owners for being smug about going green? Toyota has sold over 15 million electrified cars.
I really appreciate that both you and Tom are emphasizing that in the real world it is seldom necessary to charge beyond 80%. It seems obvious to those of us who have been driving EVs for years but so many people are buying their first EV and have a hard time breaking that "Fill 'er up!" mentality. Unless you *Really* need that extra range to make it to your next charge it is counterproductive to charge beyond 80, especially if people are waiting to use the charger.
@@Uggrukor They actually say "Always"??? Most lithium cell chemistries are happiest about 50%, not that 50% is all that practical for long trips. For daily 30 mile round trip average commutes that provides no advantage that i can see.
The newer LFP-chemistry battery packs (ref. Tesla M3 Std Range- the “Hertz Cars”) tolerate 100% charging without the degradation associated with NCA-chemistry batteries, enabling greater useable range from a smaller battery pack.
This is true, but there are many occasions during trips where you do need to charge to 70-80% just to make it to the next charger, especially with inefficient EVs like this, and the charging speed of this car is unacceptably slow compared to others in the same price range. If you pull into a charger at 10% and charge to 80%, that means you are driving about 2-2.5 hrs (or less In the winter or in areas of higher speed limits) and then have to stop for an hour. I’ve done that many times in my Bolt and I’ll tell you, it makes trips really, REALLY long.
The FWD version supposedly has 150kwh charging - much faster than the AWD 100kwh. Why Toyota/Subaru thought this was acceptable is beyond me. While I would generally prefer the Subie Solterra, this one fact would swing me to the FWD bz4x (well, actually, it'd probably be an id.4 or Ioniq 5).
One RUclipsr's video shows that BZ4X FWD (JPN spec) with a Panasonic battery took 30 minutes to charge from 20% to 71% when charged on a 90kW charger (Chademo); I guess it would be much faster with a 150 kW charger. However, probably the third full charge on the same day was slowed down along the way for maybe battery protection from any possible factor as per ToyotaNorth America's disclaimer. Such protection may be useful but I wonder who charges more than twice a day
The only people that will buy this EV is a dedicated Toyota fan. I was one of those dedicated fans. I owned 3 Toyota Priuses and loved them. My last Prius was the Prime which was a plug in and had a 19 mile range. They were solid cars with little to no mechanical issues. Very slow 0-60 and the Toyota native software was terrible. Then I saw 👀 a RUclips video about a Tesla Model 3 and I became obsessed! They cost a lot more than the Prius Prime but after a year of contemplation I pulled the trigger and traded the Prius Prime for a 2019 Tesla Model 3 LR and have never looked back. It like night and day between these two cars and I see similarities in this new Toyota car and my old Prius Prime. Solid, well built cars but fall short of the competition. This car with a 50K dollar price point? No way! Pay a little more and get a Tesla. I was a Toyota Prius Fan Boy, but now I am all in on Tesla.
Thanks, I wanted one of these but changed my mind because of reviews like this. I’m a loyal watcher or your EV reviews! You and Alyssa do a nice job. I have a $250 deposit in on a Fisker Ocean Sport.
Might look into the front wheel drive model once it's tested. Really this is the only SUV that has any decent ground clearance. So if that's an issue that's a concern for you definitely keep that in mind. I just wonder why they had to use two different battery suppliers at all?
The Koreans are eating the Japanese lunch even though Japan had had a headstart in America. Toyota is loosing its crown and Aura and I can attest to that. My last 6 vehicles were 2 Toyotas, 2 Nissans , 1 Honda, 1 Mazda. My current vehicles are Sonata plugin hybrid and Kia Sedona. Being Conservative isn't leadership. It's settling for stagnation and mediocrity. Leadership is risk taking which leads to innovation and progress. The Koreans brought the Kona EV and Niro EV when Toyota was actively lobbying the government to slow EV adoption. The Koreans embraced the moment and the challenge and now are making some of the best EVs in the world.
Very good review. The slow charging would be a deal-killer for us. We graduated from a Bolt (that we loved) to an Ioniq 5 so that we can do road trips a couple times per year. The bZ4x just wouldn't work for us. I understand that Toyota is concerned about longevity, but most charging is still done on an L2.
I have to say, it charges normally with a Level 2 charger maybe 30 min to get to 80% which is normal for most vehicles now after 80% you see a large decline in kw output/input from 40 kw per second to 12 kw per second. Is it a safety mechanism for the battery; probably but I rather have a full charge than just 80% I have the Limited AWD so far its great 👍
I'm a former Toyota fanboy...now I'm team Tesla. I really wanted to like the bZ4x. In fact, I kind of wanted to replace my Lexus RX450h with the RZ450e. But hell no! Not if it charges this bad, has this awful of range, no preconditioning, no route planning, no plug and charge. Ugh! I put 30k miles on my Model Y last year. No way I could do that on the bZ4x. And if I'm getting a city only EV, I'd get a Leaf. The bZ4x fails as a city EV (due to price) and a road trip EV (due to specs).
Lexus Press Release says the Lexus RZ450e comes with a the 71.4 kWh battery pack, so it should do better (up to 150 kW charging, probably). It'll be faster too, with 150 kW front motor as well as the 80 kW rear. It looks like Lexus is trying to do better so maybe they'll sort out some of those other niggles too.
Not really, people buy Toyotas because they want the reliability. And people buy the cars because they like the way they drive or the way they look. Vast majority of people are not going to even know that there's an issue with charging. Also this vehicle really does not cross shop at all with the ionic 5 and ev6. Not if you actually want an SUV that has ground clearance. This is really the only affordable electric SUV that has real ground clearance. It's 8.1 in of clearance. None of the others sold have anywhere near that. And generally speaking once inside that brand they're not going to leave unless they're extremely motivated to do so. I want to see how the Panasonic battery does with the front wheel drive model. I suspect they sell more front-wheel drive RAV4s than all wheel drive. I just wonder why in the hell they had to use two different battery suppliers at all? Why? They're both almost the same capacity. Maybe Panasonic just could not provide enough batteries and so they had to find a secondary supplier. Panasonic has been the supplier for all of their hybrid batteries since 1997. They have a very tight relationship with them.
Why not? Its a Toyota, its simple, Its a Toyota. Reason enough. That its not better or longer lasting or cheaper than others does not count. They do not look around. They see its a Toyota, they buy it.
@@syenosis What is your definition of unusable? People drive locally around their own City 99.9% of the time. Charging it home. People take road trips once a year maybe every other year. Is that really going to dissuade you from buying a car if it fits all of your needs in every other way? Probably not. And it has one thing that the others do not. Ground clearance. And it's a Toyota. I want to see how the Panasonic battery charges. I would have gotten the front wheel drive model anyway. There's no place you can go with front-wheel drive if you know how to drive. And with 8 inches of ground clearance that'll clear almost anything you would want to go on a light trail or fire road. I mean I've driven miatas off road. You just know have to know what to do and where to put the tires
This really surprised me. Now, I have a Bolt, which charges even slower than these. But I've had that car for 5 years. It's not a problem because 99% of my charging is L2 at home/work. My wife is thinking of going electric, and I mentioned that Subaru is coming out with the Solterra (same as the bZ4X basically) and she read that it had slower charging. I was surprised that a car to be released now would be only twice as fast as my Bolt (should be at least 4 times faster), but yep. That is disappointing for any car designed recently to be that slow...
@@desiv1170 Nice. My wife got hers too. Not a lot of miles on hers, but happy to charge in the garage again. Some people pick on the Bolt, but if you didn't want to pay Tesla money, it was the best out there in 2017, and even now, most base model EVs start over 40, not 30. Love my Tesla, but it was a lot more.
The slow charging above 80% means the real-life range is 170-180 miles (most people's range anxiety will kick in well before low single digits of state-of-charge.) So it's a daily driver, but not a car you can take even a modest road trip in conveniently.
When you can drive 2 hours on the Interstate in cold weather using less than 80% battery, range is not a problem. But, people who won't shake the gas tank mentality for batteries will have a problem. Charging more often, but faster, in the sweet spot of the charging curve is the modern strategy.
Prismatic LFP cells do not like to be charged quickly, but they will last forever if you take care of them. LFP is not great for road tripping, but would be great as a city car or short distance commuter for someone who charges in their garage or at work.
yes , another excellent charge test.Also Loved the road test in the San Gabriel Mountains.You and your co-pilot carved my favorite roads that I road a bicycle, motorcycle and learners permit on.Will be getting a fwd Bz4x fwd limited this year,staying close to my ,soon to be installed, home with solar roof (TESLA). So i will confuse people with "powered by Tesla " on my Toyota ev.
I’ve always felt Toyota takes an overt conservative approach to all of their designs. Look at the mpg’s of their non hybrid stuff. Non if it is tuned for efficiency but rather tuned for longevity
Kyle, I would love to see the BZ4x/Solterra vs. ID.4 vs. Mach E charging curve (maybe even add IONIQ 5 for a best/good/bad breakdown). They are all in the same price category and will be cross-shopped.
OMG. This is slower than our Chevy Bolt EUV that maxes out at 55 kw. We did a road trip with the EUV from Boulder, CO to Seattle and back and it was OK but not great. We quickly learned to pull in to the next charging session as close to 0 SOC to make the best use of our time. Agree completely with the assessment of this vehicle
Will you do a curve on the FWD? Such similar size pack so maybe this is early software and they can unlock more speed later? Would be interesting to see overlaid curves for both cars
I thought we might be interested in replacing a 2015 Leaf with the Subaru version of this car. It doesn’t need to have fast charging for us but this seems like it’s so bad that it might affect resale as EV’s become more common and people learn about charging curves. Perhaps some software updates will help, as you suggested, I think we saw that with both the iD.4 and MME.
I agree it would be interesting to compare this to the FWD vehicle. FWD version uses a different battery pack which can theoretically handle 150kW charging.
FWD uses a completely different battery, I think from Panasonic. AWD has Chinese batteries from CATL (in the US at least). Panasonic is perfectly capable of fast charging, CATL apparently not so much...
It sort of makes sense to me. Toyota buyers are loyal to Toyota, that's what they will buy again and again. So some will buy this car, see that it sucks, word will spread and hence Toyota can ensure their future customers will buy their gas based cars instead. I don't think this is Toyota being conservative, I think it's them trying to protect their gas vehicle business for the coming decade.
Was considering this as a second vehicle to supplement our Model Y. The fact that the range is ~220 miles, it has no frunk and fast charging is slow makes it a no-go for us. If we need to take a road trip, we take the Model Y. Even with the slower charging, I would have hoped for at least 300 miles of range (180-240 if you have a family limit set to 60-80) and some better storage.
@@ohumeid Except for actual ground clearance. None of the other SUVs in this class have any decent actual ground clearance. I believe the Toyota has 8.1 in. The mach e has less ground clearance than an actual mustang. And I believe all the others are closer to 5 in of ground clearance. For some people that would be a big deal
2:45 YES they do Toyota Corollas are known for getting 500 000 mile out of a car (ICE) if you do regular maintenance. So if they can get 2% to 5% degradation on the battery instead of 10% that means a lot if your expecting your car to last 500 000 mile. Now if you have a car that is going to fall apart at 100 000 to 150 000 miles then, well charge as hard as you want.
It is not a Corolla, not a valid comparison, it's a re-badged Subaru with input from Geely (Chinese EV auto maker who own Subaru). The most important part of an EV is the battery; in today's market, that charging curve is bad. And, no one has any idea how long the chassis will last, we all need to wait 20 years. If YOU like the car, buy it.
Lol. John, I think you hit the nail on the head. Toyota owners wants the car to last forever therefore owning this EV will surely is a sound investments. Remember: TCO: total cost of ownership over 10/15/20 years. Lots of $$$ save.
Yikes! This makes me feel better about my Bolt purchased even knowing it's maxed at 55 Kw. I only take 1-2 roadtrips per year far enough that we will need to charge. And even after 10% battery degradation, the bolt's range will still be farther than a new Bz4x
I would like to see how the FWD with Panasonic battery performs in the fast charging sections. I believe the Euro specs claims 0 - 80% in 30 mins, and I believe they use Panasonic battery on both FWD and AWD models.
wish i could get one, but dealerships in my area are adding $10k to the MSRP and adding an additional $5k to $10k as a "dealership adjustment" to the $42k MSRP, raising the price to over $60k. i've put in a complaint with toyota HQ customer service to let them know this was happening, just so they know they've lost a customer because i refuse to be price gouged and ripped off. right now, i'm on a waiting list for a Tesla Model 3 that goes for the same price as this toyota.
You are much better with the Tesla. Enjoy your model 3. Toyota is not ready for prime time with EV's. They are fighting it hard as they do not want to lose their ICE business. We all know they could of hit it out of the park with a proper EV if they had any desire.
@@BenjiDied good to hear - what’s you experience on charging 20-80% on a fast chargeur if you had the chance to try it (I understand this can vary due to a number of factor including battery temperature)
@@marcbungener1877 I live in San Diego so temperatures here are pretty good. I’m taking advantage of the free year of unlimited charging from EvGO. The problem I had is finding an EvGO station that’s above 50kW, but luckily there’s one or two stations that can go up to 350kW. Using those, my car charges from 20% to 80% in about 30-35 minutes at a peak charge of about 115-125kW. After 80%, the car reduces the charge rate significantly to like, 4kW. Doesn’t bother me though, you wouldn’t want to fully charge to 100% anyway.
Honestly.... Why pair the slow CATL pack with the AWD and pair the faster Panasonic pack with front wheel drive? Why not the reverse? A front wheel drive setup makes more sense for slower charging because it's probably going to sell more to commuters who will home charge. AWD makes more sense for faster charging because someone that is going to do more adventurous lifestyles (and more trips) is going to be the main audience, so you will more likely need a shorter charge time. So why saddle the car that is more likely to go upstate for the weekend in the mountains with the slower charging? Why give the car that will likely be more day to day commuting with lots of home charging the faster DC charging?
To me the bigger question is why are there two different batteries at all? That doesn't make any sense to me at all unless it's simply a supply issue. Panasonic has been the supplier for Toyota's Hybrid battery modules since 1997. I don't know it's just weird to me. Personally I would get the front wheel drive model just to get the better battery. And just know that I might not be able to go every place that the all-wheel drive can. But honestly I've driven rear wheel drive and front wheel drive cars pretty much anywhere that most people would ever take a car. You really don't need all-wheel drive, if you know how to drive off road. This thing is not going to go rock crawling, all it's going to do is see light trails and some gravel. The front wheel drive is going to be able to handle that without any problems. And the difference in acceleration between the two is quite minimal. At one of the launch events multiple RUclipsrs were testing both cars I think they got 6.80 to 60 with the front wheel drive and 6.1 with the all-wheel drive. Really not a significant difference at all.
@@wolfgangpreier9160 Yep. Mediocre and average at basically everything. But will probably run for 700,000 miles And that's what people expect and want from their toyotas. They don't care about the other stuff.
I think that there is some genius marketing going on here…One of the largest and most respected auto mfg in the world (Toyota with Lexus), comes out with an EV that on the surface looks and performs adequately, but when it comes to actual “filling up” or charging, I think that that at least 75% of all non EV car owners don’t understand that home charging is about 75+% of the charging that they’ll do…..but when they see how long it’ll take at a “filling” station, they go back to ICE….I can see this as a dealer salesman’s argument to buy ice, sadly ….
Well, for me it's simple, if they are doing this for longevity and you don't need fast charging, it will be great, if you need the car to do long trips in a reasonable time, well, get an electrified ICE (including synthetic fuels usage) or a fuel cell hybrid. For me, they're smart, they can't predict the future, so they have to be ready for everything. Greetings from Costa Rica
I think this is a Toyota USA problem. Every thing bad things commented on this channel are not missing in Europe. On youtube you will be having viewers from around The world.
What a great video. This really exposes the flaws of this car. I charge at home and only drive 40 miles per day so it might actually work for me. However, the vast majority of people would not put up with these charging rates.
A lot of good info. I agree with your comment about slow charging curve. I’d call it a turtle charging curve. Maybe Toyota is really concerned about the battery overheating and starting a fire?? Would be interesting to see a Level 2 (home charging) charging curve. Of course, where can one really road trip in Japan? Seems to me Toyota is trying to just put an EV in the marketplace to save face. Maybe after your review, they’ll do a charging update??
To be fair - it did exactly what they promised (0-80% in 62 minutes). And I can see why they would want to limit the charging above this threshold to basically home charging. At that point it doesn't matter if 80-100% takes 30 minutes or 5 hours. Ford Mustang had a very similar strategy not so long ago. And from their perspective I would do exactly the same - for now they will sell every single EV they can produce no matter what. So why tarnish your brand with possible problems in the future? For me this is dealbreaker, but they will find enough people that will not care about this. For now. Looking forward for that 70 mph test.
Ya I was gonna say the same thing as I noticed it was 60 minutes 0-80! …. I do wish the last 20% would continue though at the same charge rate and not drop off the earth (basing it on a long road trip)
@@BrandEver117 It doesn't. This charges over 50kW up to 50%SoC and even after that point up to 80% SoC it has better DC charging curve than Bolt. But funny enough - you contradict yourself. Even you bought Bolt knowing that it has even worse DC charging than bZ4X. Yet you call bZ4X "silly" based only on this one thing (bZ4X has actually very good reviews with charging curve being the main/only big sticky point).
my bz4x Limited only goes up to 40 kw even though I am using a charge that is much faster (350 kw charger). I plug it in when it is 20% or 30% low battery and it is only charging at 37kw... This is on a normal temperature day too.
If the price ends up being right on the used market, I'd consider buying one of these in a few years. I'd do most of my charging on L2 anyway so I'd rather have the long term reliability of the batteries. These would be a good step up for people driving bolts.
Great video! Can you also check whether the car "rapidgates" like the Leaf? I wouldn't be surprised if it gets even worse on the 2nd or 3rd charge on a road trip.
No way I would buy this. So disappointed that Toyota have released such a technically hamstrung vehicle. For the price you would be crazy to buy this when you can buy a proper fast charging Ioniq 5. Hopefully Toyota can fix this with a software patch.
Ioniq 5 is $57,245 + $11k dealer markup = $68,245. And with no battery heater for preconditioning, the 10-80% charge tests on the Ioniq 5 at Electrify America stations can barely hit 150 kW For the price, you would be crazy to buy an Ioniq 5 when you can buy a properly fast charging Tesla model Y.
If this ensures the battery pack will outlast competitors - then it will be the vehicle of choice for many who wish to own their EV until its death - like most current Toyota and Lexus owners. Battery life and cost of ownership are my biggest concerns, not charging speed. 100,000 miles is nothing and should continue to be nothing to a Toyota in my opinion. Thank-you for the review!
Looks like it has a usable capacity of 60 kWh, meaning it has a buffer of 10 kWh. That's why you can run fast enough even when the gauge is empty. Efficiency is excellent considering that it runs 250 miles with 60 kWh. For the FWD version, it can be charged up to 80% in about 40 minutes with a 90 kW charger according to reviews by others.
Yes. Another awesome video. So, a few things. A couple of quick statements and then some questions. Statements: 1. I remember reading somewhere that Toyota was actually targeting local driving and not road trippers. This is why I am staying away. 2. I'm keeping my eye on the Fiske Ocean (thinking of putting a hold on an Ultra). 3. The Fisker Ocean is going to use CATL batteries. Questions: 1. Is the CATL the issue with the long charging? 2. Could the Fisker Ocean suffer the same charging demon? 3. If the CATL batteries aren't the issue, is it Toyota's over conservativeness? Everyone, forgive me, this is my first venture into EVs. I'm looking to replace my 2010 Accord within the year and trying to decide. Heck, I even have a spreadsheet to try and figure out what one to get. My top 4 are Fisker Ocean, Genesis eGV70, Hyundai Ioniq 5, and Kia EV6 (in that order). Number 2 probably won't happen unless I win the lottery...LOL🤣 Well, thanks again for a great video, and hopefully Henrick Fisker will let you Guys test the Ocean Ultra!!! P.S. Loved the towing video between the Rivian R1T and the Ford King Ranch!
I feel like it might be beneficial to do this test again, but make sure that you set the vehicle to max charge. Because you set a max charge of like 60% the interruption could skew the test results.
You keep making excuses for Toyota, and designing a car for reliability is laudable, but if it won't charge at the rate they claim then their claim is false!
I don't trust Toyota, they don't believe in BEVs. They know that Toyota drivers will buy these, experience the woeful charging speed and conclude that BEVs are no good. It's cynical, they could easily have given it a higher maximum charge rate and a modern charge curve.
I understand the conservativeness to prevent battery degradation and that is not an issue with daily use. But there should be an option to allow charging at higher speed if it needs to go on a road trip.
So, Toyota made a worse charging curve than our Bolt? Nope. I'd walk away from this. The price point means it needs to be 100% car. Our Bolt is better at DCFC than this.
Thanks for putting out the the information for us! This card checked many boxes for me, living out in the country ground clearance is important for me, but that charging speed it is a deal breaker for me.
Hey Kyle, great video and as I had thought, this CC is not very good by today's standards. 3-5 years ago, sure this would have cut it, but not now. Any info on the Panasonic experience, is it safe to say it's 50% better in a similar test? Maybe 10-80% would be closer to competition, in the 30-40 minute range?
On the face of it, the ability to selectively reduce the maximum charge level is a nice feature to have at sites when there are multiple chargers available. You can go for a two hour lunch or walk and come back to a car that's just finishing topping off the charge. However, if rapid charge companies don't mandate limits during busy times on how long you can stay charging at a slow rate, I can imagine that being quite annoying for other drivers. On the plus side, it means Toyota can keep claiming that EVs "aren't ready for long distance travel" by talking about how bad the queues are at rapid chargers and suggesting you use an ICE car instead 🤦♂️
LOL "Driven across the country in a Bolt." I was going to drive my Bolt from Ann Arbor, MI to Lexington, KY but couldn't do it without more than doubling my trip time.
Thanks for the video. It’s an eye-opener. I’ve been waiting to find out if the BZ4X is the EV for me but you just convinced me that it’s a big NO. I’m newly retired and aiming on doing road trips i.e. cross country from Calif but this will not do it for me. My next interest: the Lexus RX 350h but waiting for reviews on it. Sadly, I might still stick with an ICE/hybrid until they have made the EVs more bearable when it comes to charging.
I wonder if the CATL battery is LFP chemistry. LFP has lower charge rates to prevent overheating. Even if liquid cooled they can't take as high C rates as NMC chemistries. The trade off of course is that the battery cycle life is 2-4x that of NMC and should easily hit 700,000 miles before reaching 80% capacity. And there is far less degradation concern using 100% of the battery capacity. If so, this looks like a great vehicle for someone that has lvl 2 charging at home or work. It would be ok for shorter road trips if you only need to DC charge to 60% once or twice.
Not true. Byd LFP charges fast.. 45 kw at 95% (Byd Tang) 100 kwh all the way up to 80%. I prefer flat charging curves like that over the typical NMC/NCA chemistries. CATL LFP cells in Tesla are also very good 170 kw up to 30%. LFP cells can take 3C (per spec) with appropriate cooling (Toyota might lack that). Toyota are intentionally handicaping the car through conservative specs. There are high mobility electrolytes available to easily do 3C in all types of chemistries, especially on very resilient low internal resistance LFP batteries. The bz4x at 210 kw up to 50%, or even 120 kw (1.5C) - would eat the competition alive, but Toyota wants to sell just 2-5% at most hence the awful charging rate. Unfortunately.
Every different battery chemistry has a different charge acceptance rate, so it is not unusual for one type to charge faster than the other. Charging rates also effect battery lifetime cycles, so there can be many reasons for allowing different rates.
Very true, but if Toyota is going to pick a battery with such a terrible rate then they should at least sell it for cheap. This costs way more than a Bolt!
@@mattherndon9317 Somewhere in Japan, in a conference room filled with executives, someone will be trying to say "Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time." Like the gas pumps that play loud music and advertise commercials while you're doing a conventional fillup. (Ugh)
You guys need to go back and re-visit this charging scenario for the 2024 model year. Everything I've read and the data I've seen seems to indicate that they've resolved this issue in the following model year and that the charge time has been significantly reduced.
I don't know what happened, but RUclips decided to put a commercial every 2.5 minutes in this video... Good lord... There was even a commercial during the Magna commercial.
Great video. Is there a possibility that there was something wrong with that specific charger that day? Have their been any other documented cases of it doing this? I have an order in for the Solterra and this is kinda alarming for that, even though 99% of my driving will just be within my "bubble".
You’re all laughing now, but this is the only election car you’ll still see on the road in 15/20 years. Yes the charging is very slow and inconvenient, but you are almost guaranteed with a long lifespan. If you can only afford to buy one car and drive it for a long time, this is the car to get. I’d say, with this strategy, Toyota has no competitors in this field. But I have no doubt they will offer faster charging once they feel comfortable it won’t effect the longevity. For those people who want to make long roadtrips Toyota offers a large verity of vehicles that are perfect for this purpose. But at the time being, there is no such thing as fast charging and a guaranteed long lifespan of the battery. Toyota wants their vehicles on the road for 15/20 years, at least. With electric cars, this means you’ll have to live with some inconveniences like slow charging.
FWIW: if you're someone who only takes one long trip a year, for like two weeks, and the rest of the time charging at home, the EV you have will last just as long.
Once we can get Toyotas with their Solid State Battery with 1000 miles range and super fast charge rates, then I will have one in my driveway for sure.
I think they should have put the Panasonic in the awd. I did order the awd as it will be used primarily going into our cabin (rough beat up road) and husbands work vehicle, which we do get big dumps of snow. It will be charged up using solar at cabin and his work generates their own electricity, they have block heater plugs available and two chargepoint station, so after a 12 hour shift it should be good to go again, lol. Guess we’re taking our 2017 model s on road trips.
One could plug this in on a DC fast charger at lunch and go back to work and it would be about full when time to go home in the evening... Wow. This is a California compliance effort by Toyota and will need more engineering on its charging capabilities before it is widely wanted nationwide.
When the competition are doing sooo much better, this will never be "widely wanted nationwide." This version of it will never be the #1 selling EV in North America - not even close. Same for the Subaru Solterra.
There's no way the Bolt's slow charging speed is acceptable for a road trip. That's many hours wasted sitting at a charger when your vacation time is precious
@@chrisness you missed some key language: "within reason." You driving across state to see your kid at college? Sure. Upstate to grandma? Absolutely doable. You live in New England and doing a tri-state trek? Totally. You driving from Miami to North Dakota to see the Corn Palace (or is it SD)? FUCK NO. I've done Homestead, FL to Jacksonville, FL with wife, 2 kids, and a dog in a Bolt. Perfectly fine (you can even check it against A Better Route Planner if you need verification). But something further? No, at that point you get a better charging EV.
Glad I cancelled my reservation for the Subaru Solterra - the exact same car. Cannot imagine taking this thing out in the boonies - short range, no spare tire. And regarding the amount for range for cost- it is no better than my gas powered Outback.
This is what I was waiting for. I'm getting my $250 back from Subaru, as this is essentially the Solterra. EDIT: message just sent to Subaru Of America... Subject: Wish to cancel my Solterra reservation Comments: RESERVATION CODE: ⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏-⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏ RETAILER: ⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏ I wish to cancel my reservation for the 2023 Solterra for two reasons. The cost is around $5,000 more than Car & Driver / Consumer Reports estimates (which Subaru did not address or correct for months); and a recent independent charging test by Out Of Spec Motoring showed the 100kW CATL-manufactured battery is the worst they have ever reviewed. I cannot in good faith pay over $50,000 after tax for something so lackluster. My wish, as a Pennsylvania resident, was to first buy a plug-in hybrid - Subaru has the Crosstrek with the 8.8kWh battery that would be absolutely perfect for my short-distance commuting needs and my wish to be friendlier to the environment. Unfortunately, it's not even considered for this state. I hope this is a decision that Subaru corrects in the very near future.
Everyone has an opinion about what a car company should do. This is the first vehicle that seems realistic about what an electric vehicle is and how it should be treated. I have always felt that the extremely fast charging of newer EVs are bad for the cars long term. And I am pretty sure Toyota engineers came to the same conclusion and designed the system for longevity not for "fast charging speed". Let's see how all these EVs do in 10 years. My money is on the BZ4X.
Tesla's have already proven that long term question. Model S has been Supercharging since 2012/ 10 years. The vast majority of packs have stood up very well.
@@Shackkobe , no need for me to find specifics. Do some searching, this data is all over the internet. There's Teslas with original batteries over 200K miles. There's owners who have almost exclusively Supercharged rather than home charge with healthy batteries. Kyle talks about his abused Model 3 that he has done countless road trip videos for this channel. Over 100K Supercharging like crazy, going down to 1% often, doing hardcore testing, and so on. It's not like Tesla just started 3 years ago. There's 10 years of data.
@@Josh-179 For someone who spoke so convincingly I expected you to have these facts at your finger tips. But I guess I was wrong. FYI, I will not be doing any more researching. I didn't just make an uninformed comment. Here's a little help for ya, check out Gruber Motor Company channel and see how well all the Tesla roadster batteries are doing. Trust me, it's not just range loss on these old Teslas.
Hey Kyle, what are the chances Toyota improves this charging curve via software update after they collect more data? Or would the battery just not be capable of better? Even if they held the 80s till like 35-40% before starting the downhill that would be a huge difference. Definitely no reason for the 90s range to be so low though. I mean at least 10-15kw needs to be maintained there.
Other reviewers noticed the range estimates were not correct as well. Toyota's estimated 0-60 times were also wrong. This review is of a pre-productuon model
I almost ended up getting a BZ4X a few months ago then eventually went with an Ioniq 6. So i guess I lucked out since I went from an apparently crappy one to one of the best in the market.
As a retired couple who does not put much mileage on our car and would be charging at home, we could live with this car...for the right price. At the current prices, I'm not interested. We generally keep our cars for a long time but EV technology is rapidly changing. Might as well get a Leaf.
This is exactly the charging experience people who don't like electrics *think* you'll have. I think toyota is nerfing it this hard to protect their hybrid and phev lineup while they work out their solid state battery tech's longevity.
Thanks Kyle for being honest and upfront about the vehicle without being off-putting or rude. It's refreshing to hear that instead of the rigid reviews that merely rattle off the specsheet.
Toyota mindset: “Let’s build a car that won’t cannibalize any of our existing gas vehicles”.
Or more likely, "Damm, looks like EV's are getting to be a thing, hey team go and scrounge up some batteries, motors etc, so we can say we have one".
I doubt that's the reason. They were the first company to double down on electrification in the early 2000's. Problem is they wanted hydrogen and solid state batteries to be their solution to the EV problem and didn't look at intermediate steps until they had too.
@@jhmcd2 Over the past 2 years I have come to believe that Toyota's electrification was just a ploy to be able to play on both sides as it has become abundantly clear that as the market is moving more and more to full EV they are throwing up as many roadblocks as they can to keep it from happening. Their claims of a Solid State battery are complete BS and again I think it is a ploy to keep current Toyota buyers from buying a competing car on the belief that Toyota will have a superior EV very soon. I have never owned a Toyota but always had a respect for the products they produce. I now have 0 respect for Toyota and plan to never own one of their products.
so in other words, a company looking out for its own best interests - if I worked for Toyota, I would applaud this.
@@MBergyman So, intentionally blocking new technologies progress because your company bet on the wrong horse and putting out subpar products so as not to erode your existing products is something you applaud? Not exactly good long term business strategies.
Another excellent video. Imagine in Canada where it's cold down to -30 in winter. It will take 2 days to recharge 😂
LMAFO only go outside twice a week.
Well, a good number is no indication that winter charging will be good, as is proven by Ioniq 5 / Kia EV6.
They are horribly slow in winter...
@@steinareliassen385 I believe Hyundai/kia will be releasing an update to give it a precondition button to get faster charging
@@MIA7Xthies Maybe. Maybe it will only be avail for the 2023 model. Maybe it will not happen. They have not stated anything certain yet.
@Koemgen2000 It'll look similar to the Mach E at 22kW at -9°C.... Pity
now i love my ID4 even more after watching this video
Summary:
Toyota 10 to 80 % : 58 minutes
(Hyundai Ioniq 5/ Kia EV6: 18 mins in ideal condition. 35 mins in very cold condition)
(Volkswagen ID.4: 35 mins in ideal condition. 38 mins in very cold condition)
(Ford Mach-E: 43 mins in ideal condition)
(Tesla Model Y: 36 mins in ideal condition)
Toyota 10 to 90 % : 88 minutes
Toyota 0 to 80 % : 62 minutes
Toyota 0 to 90 % : 92 minutes
So Toyota just broke the world record for the SLOWEST charging EV ever.
Dont worry, Scotty Kilmer will find something to defend and praise this Toyota badged Subaru
Hopfully this happen just only a prototype car.
Watch the Out of spec Vegas trip part 11.
The Hyundai wasn't doing so well.
That's the relevant numbers, I think the 10 to 80% number is an important number, the test should emphasize this number.
Cadillac CTS4 coupe,
I was called to complete my order for the Subaru version. So very glad I saw this. Thank you Kyle. Saved me the I’ve 52k for the car plus’s dealer said there is a min $2500 mark up. So I was out the door at 60k before tax incentives for an adventure car I couldn’t take on an adventure
hope may be its a start phase and they will ramp it up later.... but... no no no :(
For that money Tesla beats everything.
@@elliothacker The Solterra has the same battery and charger as the AWD bz4x. The FWD bz4x has a different battery and faster charger.
Kyle, I really appreciate your work on these videos. I have a reservation for a Solterra and wasn’t entirely sold on going through with the purchase. Now I am sure I won’t buy one because my ten year old Ford Focus Electric without DCFC somehow manages to charge faster at high SOC than this thing. It’s incredible that the Bolt is far superior on 10-90% despite 5 year old tech. Toyota *really* doesn’t want to sell EVs I guess
Toyota doesnt have EV. That's a Subaru rebadged as Toyota.
Subaru know the Solterra is not for long road trips that's why they include free ICE rentals:
"Customers who lease or purchase a Solterra will receive up to 10 days of free Subaru rentals from their participating dealerships, enabling them to choose a gasoline-powered vehicle for road trips or other needs."
They really don't. They're importing 7k of these things into the USA in its first year.
Tesla sell more than that in a week
@@timaustin2000 They dont need to, because Scotty Kilmer works very hard to cheerlead Toyotas, especially 94 Celicas. How many get duped? :)
@@bmw803 "Toyota designed the battery architecture, body, and cabin, while Subaru handled the all-wheel-drive system" -TechCrunch. Maybe you forgot, but Toyota pioneered electric vehicles for the mass market. Remember in the 90's when everyone used to make fun of Prius owners for being smug about going green? Toyota has sold over 15 million electrified cars.
I really appreciate that both you and Tom are emphasizing that in the real world it is seldom necessary to charge beyond 80%. It seems obvious to those of us who have been driving EVs for years but so many people are buying their first EV and have a hard time breaking that "Fill 'er up!" mentality. Unless you *Really* need that extra range to make it to your next charge it is counterproductive to charge beyond 80, especially if people are waiting to use the charger.
Our Polestar says on the charging screen they recommend always charging to 90% so there’s that..
@@Uggrukor They actually say "Always"??? Most lithium cell chemistries are happiest about 50%, not that 50% is all that practical for long trips. For daily 30 mile round trip average commutes that provides no advantage that i can see.
The newer LFP-chemistry battery packs (ref. Tesla M3 Std Range- the “Hertz Cars”) tolerate 100% charging without the degradation associated with NCA-chemistry batteries, enabling greater useable range from a smaller battery pack.
@@Miata822 50% is only for storage. If you are driving regularly 80-90% is fine
This is true, but there are many occasions during trips where you do need to charge to 70-80% just to make it to the next charger, especially with inefficient EVs like this, and the charging speed of this car is unacceptably slow compared to others in the same price range. If you pull into a charger at 10% and charge to 80%, that means you are driving about 2-2.5 hrs (or less In the winter or in areas of higher speed limits) and then have to stop for an hour. I’ve done that many times in my Bolt and I’ll tell you, it makes trips really, REALLY long.
Yeah, that charging curve would rule this car out for me. It will be interesting to see how the FWD version behaves.
The FWD version supposedly has 150kwh charging - much faster than the AWD 100kwh. Why Toyota/Subaru thought this was acceptable is beyond me. While I would generally prefer the Subie Solterra, this one fact would swing me to the FWD bz4x (well, actually, it'd probably be an id.4 or Ioniq 5).
One RUclipsr's video shows that BZ4X FWD (JPN spec) with a Panasonic battery took 30 minutes to charge from 20% to 71% when charged on a 90kW charger (Chademo); I guess it would be much faster with a 150 kW charger. However, probably the third full charge on the same day was slowed down along the way for maybe battery protection from any possible factor as per ToyotaNorth America's disclaimer. Such protection may be useful but I wonder who charges more than twice a day
The only people that will buy this EV is a dedicated Toyota fan. I was one of those dedicated fans. I owned 3 Toyota Priuses and loved them. My last Prius was the Prime which was a plug in and had a 19 mile range. They were solid cars with little to no mechanical issues. Very slow 0-60 and the Toyota native software was terrible. Then I saw 👀 a RUclips video about a Tesla Model 3 and I became obsessed! They cost a lot more than the Prius Prime but after a year of contemplation I pulled the trigger and traded the Prius Prime for a 2019 Tesla Model 3 LR and have never looked back. It like night and day between these two cars and I see similarities in this new Toyota car and my old Prius Prime. Solid, well built cars but fall short of the competition. This car with a 50K dollar price point? No way!
Pay a little more and get a Tesla. I was a Toyota Prius Fan Boy, but now I am all in on Tesla.
Thanks, I wanted one of these but changed my mind because of reviews like this. I’m a loyal watcher or your EV reviews! You and Alyssa do a nice job.
I have a $250 deposit in on a Fisker Ocean Sport.
Might look into the front wheel drive model once it's tested. Really this is the only SUV that has any decent ground clearance. So if that's an issue that's a concern for you definitely keep that in mind. I just wonder why they had to use two different battery suppliers at all?
@@kens97sto171 it’s the one I have the Sport model $37,499….. with the Tax rebates, it’s a no brainer.
We’ll see.
You are never getting the car.
@@yatinkheti2427 lol 😂
@@Optimisticaboutit Do you think you are actually getting it?
The Koreans are eating the Japanese lunch even though Japan had had a headstart in America. Toyota is loosing its crown and Aura and I can attest to that. My last 6 vehicles were 2 Toyotas, 2 Nissans , 1 Honda, 1 Mazda. My current vehicles are Sonata plugin hybrid and Kia Sedona. Being Conservative isn't leadership. It's settling for stagnation and mediocrity. Leadership is risk taking which leads to innovation and progress. The Koreans brought the Kona EV and Niro EV when Toyota was actively lobbying the government to slow EV adoption. The Koreans embraced the moment and the challenge and now are making some of the best EVs in the world.
Hi! You are right that at least Norway will get 150 fast charging with a 71,4 kWh battery. Toyota confirmed it before I ordered it.
Very good review. The slow charging would be a deal-killer for us. We graduated from a Bolt (that we loved) to an Ioniq 5 so that we can do road trips a couple times per year. The bZ4x just wouldn't work for us. I understand that Toyota is concerned about longevity, but most charging is still done on an L2.
I have to say, it charges normally with a Level 2 charger maybe 30 min to get to 80% which is normal for most vehicles now after 80% you see a large decline in kw output/input from 40 kw per second to 12 kw per second. Is it a safety mechanism for the battery; probably but I rather have a full charge than just 80% I have the Limited AWD so far its great 👍
I'm a former Toyota fanboy...now I'm team Tesla. I really wanted to like the bZ4x. In fact, I kind of wanted to replace my Lexus RX450h with the RZ450e. But hell no! Not if it charges this bad, has this awful of range, no preconditioning, no route planning, no plug and charge. Ugh! I put 30k miles on my Model Y last year. No way I could do that on the bZ4x. And if I'm getting a city only EV, I'd get a Leaf. The bZ4x fails as a city EV (due to price) and a road trip EV (due to specs).
👏👏👏👏
Lexus Press Release says the Lexus RZ450e comes with a the 71.4 kWh battery pack, so it should do better (up to 150 kW charging, probably). It'll be faster too, with 150 kW front motor as well as the 80 kW rear. It looks like Lexus is trying to do better so maybe they'll sort out some of those other niggles too.
This car is DOA when comparing to rival cars. Absolutely no reason to buy this car.
Not really, people buy Toyotas because they want the reliability. And people buy the cars because they like the way they drive or the way they look. Vast majority of people are not going to even know that there's an issue with charging. Also this vehicle really does not cross shop at all with the ionic 5 and ev6. Not if you actually want an SUV that has ground clearance. This is really the only affordable electric SUV that has real ground clearance. It's 8.1 in of clearance. None of the others sold have anywhere near that.
And generally speaking once inside that brand they're not going to leave unless they're extremely motivated to do so.
I want to see how the Panasonic battery does with the front wheel drive model.
I suspect they sell more front-wheel drive RAV4s than all wheel drive. I just wonder why in the hell they had to use two different battery suppliers at all? Why? They're both almost the same capacity. Maybe Panasonic just could not provide enough batteries and so they had to find a secondary supplier. Panasonic has been the supplier for all of their hybrid batteries since 1997. They have a very tight relationship with them.
Why not? Its a Toyota, its simple, Its a Toyota. Reason enough. That its not better or longer lasting or cheaper than others does not count. They do not look around. They see its a Toyota, they buy it.
@@kens97sto171 👍
@@kens97sto171 Being reliable is useless if it's unusable to start with. Nobody's going to want to drive this nonsense 10 years.
@@syenosis
What is your definition of unusable? People drive locally around their own City 99.9% of the time. Charging it home. People take road trips once a year maybe every other year. Is that really going to dissuade you from buying a car if it fits all of your needs in every other way? Probably not. And it has one thing that the others do not. Ground clearance. And it's a Toyota. I want to see how the Panasonic battery charges. I would have gotten the front wheel drive model anyway. There's no place you can go with front-wheel drive if you know how to drive. And with 8 inches of ground clearance that'll clear almost anything you would want to go on a light trail or fire road. I mean I've driven miatas off road. You just know have to know what to do and where to put the tires
This really surprised me. Now, I have a Bolt, which charges even slower than these. But I've had that car for 5 years. It's not a problem because 99% of my charging is L2 at home/work. My wife is thinking of going electric, and I mentioned that Subaru is coming out with the Solterra (same as the bZ4X basically) and she read that it had slower charging. I was surprised that a car to be released now would be only twice as fast as my Bolt (should be at least 4 times faster), but yep. That is disappointing for any car designed recently to be that slow...
Have you gotten your brand new slightly higher capacity cells?
@@fjalics Yep, got the new pack at the end of December, just after my Bolt hit 100k. Nice to know I have some more range and an extended warranty.
@@desiv1170 Nice. My wife got hers too. Not a lot of miles on hers, but happy to charge in the garage again. Some people pick on the Bolt, but if you didn't want to pay Tesla money, it was the best out there in 2017, and even now, most base model EVs start over 40, not 30. Love my Tesla, but it was a lot more.
Your bolt would charge 0 to 100 faster. Probably even 0 to 90
@@markrichards9792 True, but my wife wouldn't go with me on the longer trips if I tried that... .. er.. um... Hey! :-)
The slow charging above 80% means the real-life range is 170-180 miles (most people's range anxiety will kick in well before low single digits of state-of-charge.) So it's a daily driver, but not a car you can take even a modest road trip in conveniently.
You will NOT get 170 miles out of this car even with a full battery.
The usable energy of the battery is too small.
@@Vxvx22 Absolutely agree, Vx. I used the EPA rated range for illustration...
When you can drive 2 hours on the Interstate in cold weather using less than 80% battery, range is not a problem. But, people who won't shake the gas tank mentality for batteries will have a problem. Charging more often, but faster, in the sweet spot of the charging curve is the modern strategy.
@@StevenHoagland Truth. Some people can't be helped.
Prismatic LFP cells do not like to be charged quickly, but they will last forever if you take care of them. LFP is not great for road tripping, but would be great as a city car or short distance commuter for someone who charges in their garage or at work.
yes , another excellent charge test.Also Loved the road test in the San Gabriel Mountains.You and your co-pilot carved my favorite roads that I road a bicycle, motorcycle and learners permit on.Will be getting a fwd Bz4x fwd limited this year,staying close to my ,soon to be installed, home with solar roof (TESLA). So i will confuse people with "powered by Tesla " on my Toyota ev.
I’ve always felt Toyota takes an overt conservative approach to all of their designs. Look at the mpg’s of their non hybrid stuff. Non if it is tuned for efficiency but rather tuned for longevity
thats why I would buy Toyota when my 02 tundra still drives like new
Wow. I think my Niro with 2019 technology and a 70kw peak beats that curve
Yup. It barely beats Bolt EV curve 😒
I’m very surprised that Toyota missed the boat with EVs. I just can’t understand why they don’t get.
wasted time with hydrogen and hybrids
Because they realy want to sell hybrids where the margins Are bigger
Because they are waiting to see how the real future will be.
They hitched their wagon to hydrogen a long time ago. Time will tell but I thinks the odds and momentum is against them now,
Kyle, I would love to see the BZ4x/Solterra vs. ID.4 vs. Mach E charging curve (maybe even add IONIQ 5 for a best/good/bad breakdown). They are all in the same price category and will be cross-shopped.
OMG. This is slower than our Chevy Bolt EUV that maxes out at 55 kw. We did a road trip with the EUV from Boulder, CO to Seattle and back and it was OK but not great. We quickly learned to pull in to the next charging session as close to 0 SOC to make the best use of our time. Agree completely with the assessment of this vehicle
This isn't just conservative. This is a broken charging algorithm. Toyota's programmers and battery engineers messed up big-time.
-Matt
Exactly. Either that or this one's got a faulty battery/BMS. How embarrassing 🤣
Will you do a curve on the FWD? Such similar size pack so maybe this is early software and they can unlock more speed later? Would be interesting to see overlaid curves for both cars
I thought we might be interested in replacing a 2015 Leaf with the Subaru version of this car. It doesn’t need to have fast charging for us but this seems like it’s so bad that it might affect resale as EV’s become more common and people learn about charging curves.
Perhaps some software updates will help, as you suggested, I think we saw that with both the iD.4 and MME.
I agree it would be interesting to compare this to the FWD vehicle. FWD version uses a different battery pack which can theoretically handle 150kW charging.
FWD uses a completely different battery, I think from Panasonic. AWD has Chinese batteries from CATL (in the US at least). Panasonic is perfectly capable of fast charging, CATL apparently not so much...
It sort of makes sense to me. Toyota buyers are loyal to Toyota, that's what they will buy again and again. So some will buy this car, see that it sucks, word will spread and hence Toyota can ensure their future customers will buy their gas based cars instead. I don't think this is Toyota being conservative, I think it's them trying to protect their gas vehicle business for the coming decade.
Was considering this as a second vehicle to supplement our Model Y. The fact that the range is ~220 miles, it has no frunk and fast charging is slow makes it a no-go for us. If we need to take a road trip, we take the Model Y. Even with the slower charging, I would have hoped for at least 300 miles of range (180-240 if you have a family limit set to 60-80) and some better storage.
By a EV6/Ionia 5, MME or Rivian and you will have fast charging, some frunk and decent build.
Buy the Lucid. Solution solved.
Ioniq 5 beats every aspect of this strange car..
Um. Buy another Y. Everything else is inferior.
@@ohumeid
Except for actual ground clearance. None of the other SUVs in this class have any decent actual ground clearance. I believe the Toyota has 8.1 in. The mach e has less ground clearance than an actual mustang. And I believe all the others are closer to 5 in of ground clearance. For some people that would be a big deal
My EQS goes from 10-80% in 31 minutes. Even when at 80% SOC I can still pull 100kw.
2:45 YES they do
Toyota Corollas are known for getting 500 000 mile out of a car (ICE) if you do regular maintenance.
So if they can get 2% to 5% degradation on the battery instead of 10% that means a lot if your expecting your car
to last 500 000 mile. Now if you have a car that is going to fall apart at 100 000 to 150 000 miles then, well charge as
hard as you want.
It is not a Corolla, not a valid comparison, it's a re-badged Subaru with input from Geely (Chinese EV auto maker who own Subaru). The most important part of an EV is the battery; in today's market, that charging curve is bad. And, no one has any idea how long the chassis will last, we all need to wait 20 years. If YOU like the car, buy it.
Lol. John, I think you hit the nail on the head. Toyota owners wants the car to last forever therefore owning this EV will surely is a sound investments. Remember: TCO: total cost of ownership over 10/15/20 years. Lots of $$$ save.
Yikes! This makes me feel better about my Bolt purchased even knowing it's maxed at 55 Kw. I only take 1-2 roadtrips per year far enough that we will need to charge. And even after 10% battery degradation, the bolt's range will still be farther than a new Bz4x
Great video! Not all EVs are built equal in terms of charging, another real life example of it! 🔌⚡🚘
I see no reason to buy this over a similarly priced ID.4 or Mach-E
I would like to see how the FWD with Panasonic battery performs in the fast charging sections. I believe the Euro specs claims 0 - 80% in 30 mins, and I believe they use Panasonic battery on both FWD and AWD models.
Who drives it down to 0 %? 😱
@@abraxastulammo9940 RUclipsrs that need to make EV content
@@abraxastulammo9940 Experts who know what they're doing. It'll take me awhile to get there, but I will.
Toyota wants you to keep buying their gas cars. They have no desire to go electric at this time. Everything about this car is disappointing.
wish i could get one, but dealerships in my area are adding $10k to the MSRP and adding an additional $5k to $10k as a "dealership adjustment" to the $42k MSRP, raising the price to over $60k. i've put in a complaint with toyota HQ customer service to let them know this was happening, just so they know they've lost a customer because i refuse to be price gouged and ripped off. right now, i'm on a waiting list for a Tesla Model 3 that goes for the same price as this toyota.
You are much better with the Tesla. Enjoy your model 3. Toyota is not ready for prime time with EV's. They are fighting it hard as they do not want to lose their ICE business. We all know they could of hit it out of the park with a proper EV if they had any desire.
I agree.
Game is changing.
I searched the web with no success to find someone who did the same test for the front wheels only traction.
I own the limited fwd model. It’s not this bad.
@@BenjiDied good to hear - what’s you experience on charging 20-80% on a fast chargeur if you had the chance to try it (I understand this can vary due to a number of factor including battery temperature)
@@marcbungener1877 I live in San Diego so temperatures here are pretty good. I’m taking advantage of the free year of unlimited charging from EvGO. The problem I had is finding an EvGO station that’s above 50kW, but luckily there’s one or two stations that can go up to 350kW. Using those, my car charges from 20% to 80% in about 30-35 minutes at a peak charge of about 115-125kW. After 80%, the car reduces the charge rate significantly to like, 4kW. Doesn’t bother me though, you wouldn’t want to fully charge to 100% anyway.
@@BenjiDied thank you very much - very useful
Honestly.... Why pair the slow CATL pack with the AWD and pair the faster Panasonic pack with front wheel drive? Why not the reverse? A front wheel drive setup makes more sense for slower charging because it's probably going to sell more to commuters who will home charge. AWD makes more sense for faster charging because someone that is going to do more adventurous lifestyles (and more trips) is going to be the main audience, so you will more likely need a shorter charge time.
So why saddle the car that is more likely to go upstate for the weekend in the mountains with the slower charging? Why give the car that will likely be more day to day commuting with lots of home charging the faster DC charging?
Just speculation... AWD is a Subaru thing! Can't let their car be better
To me the bigger question is why are there two different batteries at all? That doesn't make any sense to me at all unless it's simply a supply issue. Panasonic has been the supplier for Toyota's Hybrid battery modules since 1997.
I don't know it's just weird to me. Personally I would get the front wheel drive model just to get the better battery. And just know that I might not be able to go every place that the all-wheel drive can. But honestly I've driven rear wheel drive and front wheel drive cars pretty much anywhere that most people would ever take a car. You really don't need all-wheel drive, if you know how to drive off road. This thing is not going to go rock crawling, all it's going to do is see light trails and some gravel. The front wheel drive is going to be able to handle that without any problems. And the difference in acceleration between the two is quite minimal. At one of the launch events multiple RUclipsrs were testing both cars I think they got 6.80 to 60 with the front wheel drive and 6.1 with the all-wheel drive. Really not a significant difference at all.
Its a Toyota. What have you not understood? Its a Toyota. Its perfect. Its born mediocre, because its a Toyota. Its perfect.
@@wolfgangpreier9160
Yep. Mediocre and average at basically everything. But will probably run for 700,000 miles And that's what people expect and want from their toyotas. They don't care about the other stuff.
@@wolfgangpreier9160 Mediocre is ordinary, moderate quality, so-so. Mediocre isn't shitty.
This is shitty.
I think that there is some genius marketing going on here…One of the largest and most respected auto mfg in the world (Toyota with Lexus), comes out with an EV that on the surface looks and performs adequately, but when it comes to actual “filling up” or charging, I think that that at least 75% of all non EV car owners don’t understand that home charging is about 75+% of the charging that they’ll do…..but when they see how long it’ll take at a “filling” station, they go back to ICE….I can see this as a dealer salesman’s argument to buy ice, sadly ….
Well, for me it's simple, if they are doing this for longevity and you don't need fast charging, it will be great, if you need the car to do long trips in a reasonable time, well, get an electrified ICE (including synthetic fuels usage) or a fuel cell hybrid. For me, they're smart, they can't predict the future, so they have to be ready for everything. Greetings from Costa Rica
I think this is a Toyota USA problem. Every thing bad things commented on this channel are not missing in Europe. On youtube you will be having viewers from around The world.
What a great video. This really exposes the flaws of this car. I charge at home and only drive 40 miles per day so it might actually work for me. However, the vast majority of people would not put up with these charging rates.
A lot of good info. I agree with your comment about slow charging curve. I’d call it a turtle charging curve. Maybe Toyota is really concerned about the battery overheating and starting a fire?? Would be interesting to see a Level 2 (home charging) charging curve. Of course, where can one really road trip in Japan? Seems to me Toyota is trying to just put an EV in the marketplace to save face. Maybe after your review, they’ll do a charging update??
To be fair - it did exactly what they promised (0-80% in 62 minutes). And I can see why they would want to limit the charging above this threshold to basically home charging. At that point it doesn't matter if 80-100% takes 30 minutes or 5 hours. Ford Mustang had a very similar strategy not so long ago.
And from their perspective I would do exactly the same - for now they will sell every single EV they can produce no matter what. So why tarnish your brand with possible problems in the future?
For me this is dealbreaker, but they will find enough people that will not care about this. For now.
Looking forward for that 70 mph test.
Ya I was gonna say the same thing as I noticed it was 60 minutes 0-80! …. I do wish the last 20% would continue though at the same charge rate and not drop off the earth (basing it on a long road trip)
But it literally charged far slower than home charging above 90%. That makes me think it will do the same on level 2
My Bolt charges faster than this silly thing with a max rate of only 50kw and the battery is only like 10kwh smaller
@@BrandEver117 It doesn't. This charges over 50kW up to 50%SoC and even after that point up to 80% SoC it has better DC charging curve than Bolt.
But funny enough - you contradict yourself. Even you bought Bolt knowing that it has even worse DC charging than bZ4X. Yet you call bZ4X "silly" based only on this one thing (bZ4X has actually very good reviews with charging curve being the main/only big sticky point).
my bz4x Limited only goes up to 40 kw even though I am using a charge that is much faster (350 kw charger). I plug it in when it is 20% or 30% low battery and it is only charging at 37kw... This is on a normal temperature day too.
If the price ends up being right on the used market, I'd consider buying one of these in a few years. I'd do most of my charging on L2 anyway so I'd rather have the long term reliability of the batteries.
These would be a good step up for people driving bolts.
Great video! Can you also check whether the car "rapidgates" like the Leaf? I wouldn't be surprised if it gets even worse on the 2nd or 3rd charge on a road trip.
Oh I want to know this too! That would be super bad for me!
No way I would buy this. So disappointed that Toyota have released such a technically hamstrung vehicle. For the price you would be crazy to buy this when you can buy a proper fast charging Ioniq 5. Hopefully Toyota can fix this with a software patch.
Ioniq 5 is $57,245 + $11k dealer markup = $68,245. And with no battery heater for preconditioning, the 10-80% charge tests on the Ioniq 5 at Electrify America stations can barely hit 150 kW For the price, you would be crazy to buy an Ioniq 5 when you can buy a properly fast charging Tesla model Y.
Sheesh, I am glad I went for the Ioniq 5 rather than waiting for this thing.
Nice work Kyle, as usual. The charging curve is RIDICULOUS. Ioniq5 for me please
If this ensures the battery pack will outlast competitors - then it will be the vehicle of choice for many who wish to own their EV until its death - like most current Toyota and Lexus owners. Battery life and cost of ownership are my biggest concerns, not charging speed. 100,000 miles is nothing and should continue to be nothing to a Toyota in my opinion. Thank-you for the review!
Looks like it has a usable capacity of 60 kWh, meaning it has a buffer of 10 kWh. That's why you can run fast enough even when the gauge is empty. Efficiency is excellent considering that it runs 250 miles with 60 kWh. For the FWD version, it can be charged up to 80% in about 40 minutes with a 90 kW charger according to reviews by others.
I heard the base model chargers better hope out of spec can review the fast charging for that one
thank you for the charging review. I will stay with id4 (preordered last august. still waiting)
It's almost as if Toyota built this car only to prove its CEO's opinion, that BEVs were inferior.
Yes. Another awesome video. So, a few things. A couple of quick statements and then some questions.
Statements:
1. I remember reading somewhere that Toyota was actually targeting local driving and not road trippers. This is why I am staying away.
2. I'm keeping my eye on the Fiske Ocean (thinking of putting a hold on an Ultra).
3. The Fisker Ocean is going to use CATL batteries.
Questions:
1. Is the CATL the issue with the long charging?
2. Could the Fisker Ocean suffer the same charging demon?
3. If the CATL batteries aren't the issue, is it Toyota's over conservativeness?
Everyone, forgive me, this is my first venture into EVs. I'm looking to replace my 2010 Accord within the year and trying to decide. Heck, I even have a spreadsheet to try and figure out what one to get. My top 4 are Fisker Ocean, Genesis eGV70, Hyundai Ioniq 5, and Kia EV6 (in that order). Number 2 probably won't happen unless I win the lottery...LOL🤣
Well, thanks again for a great video, and hopefully Henrick Fisker will let you Guys test the Ocean Ultra!!!
P.S. Loved the towing video between the Rivian R1T and the Ford King Ranch!
Toyota didn't put any effort into this and the Lexus version of it. Case in point, go looked at Kia and Hyundai. Those two are well thought out EVs
I mean, I could probably live with it, but I love my ID4 Pro S AWD so much more 😸
Had our ID.4 for one year already and never expected to love it so much! Great car, zero issues.
Same here.
I feel like it might be beneficial to do this test again, but make sure that you set the vehicle to max charge. Because you set a max charge of like 60% the interruption could skew the test results.
You keep making excuses for Toyota, and designing a car for reliability is laudable, but if it won't charge at the rate they claim then their claim is false!
I don't trust Toyota, they don't believe in BEVs. They know that Toyota drivers will buy these, experience the woeful charging speed and conclude that BEVs are no good. It's cynical, they could easily have given it a higher maximum charge rate and a modern charge curve.
I understand the conservativeness to prevent battery degradation and that is not an issue with daily use. But there should be an option to allow charging at higher speed if it needs to go on a road trip.
So, Toyota made a worse charging curve than our Bolt? Nope. I'd walk away from this. The price point means it needs to be 100% car. Our Bolt is better at DCFC than this.
Thanks for putting out the the information for us! This card checked many boxes for me, living out in the country ground clearance is important for me, but that charging speed it is a deal breaker for me.
Does EVgo still charge by the minute? They might have hit the jackpot with Toyota picking up the tab for the world's slowest charging EV.
The ones around me do :( But so does the EA near me. I think my state might need to get on them for that.
It is a safety thing, you will be well rested after charging, no chance you will fall asleep driving.
I wouldn't recommend it to my friends with that charging and price tag. We love our ID.4. Done a few road trips with it with ease.
Hey Kyle, great video and as I had thought, this CC is not very good by today's standards. 3-5 years ago, sure this would have cut it, but not now. Any info on the Panasonic experience, is it safe to say it's 50% better in a similar test? Maybe 10-80% would be closer to competition, in the 30-40 minute range?
On the face of it, the ability to selectively reduce the maximum charge level is a nice feature to have at sites when there are multiple chargers available. You can go for a two hour lunch or walk and come back to a car that's just finishing topping off the charge.
However, if rapid charge companies don't mandate limits during busy times on how long you can stay charging at a slow rate, I can imagine that being quite annoying for other drivers.
On the plus side, it means Toyota can keep claiming that EVs "aren't ready for long distance travel" by talking about how bad the queues are at rapid chargers and suggesting you use an ICE car instead 🤦♂️
LOL "Driven across the country in a Bolt." I was going to drive my Bolt from Ann Arbor, MI to Lexington, KY but couldn't do it without more than doubling my trip time.
I've driven from the central Oregon Coast to Sacramento. It does take longer but it's not bad. Nothing like this piece of garbage car lol
Thanks for the video. It’s an eye-opener. I’ve been waiting to find out if the BZ4X is the EV for me but you just convinced me that it’s a big NO. I’m newly retired and aiming on doing road trips i.e. cross country from Calif but this will not do it for me. My next interest: the Lexus RX 350h but waiting for reviews on it. Sadly, I might still stick with an ICE/hybrid until they have made the EVs more bearable when it comes to charging.
i think its interesting to try hard to preserve the battery as much as possible i get what toyota is doing
Yes, putting a great 2017 charging curve on a 2022/3 vehicle. Good work Toyota. /sarcasm
@@ScubaSteveCanada ik lol maybe by 2023 they will change it
I wonder if the CATL battery is LFP chemistry. LFP has lower charge rates to prevent overheating. Even if liquid cooled they can't take as high C rates as NMC chemistries. The trade off of course is that the battery cycle life is 2-4x that of NMC and should easily hit 700,000 miles before reaching 80% capacity. And there is far less degradation concern using 100% of the battery capacity.
If so, this looks like a great vehicle for someone that has lvl 2 charging at home or work. It would be ok for shorter road trips if you only need to DC charge to 60% once or twice.
Not true. Byd LFP charges fast.. 45 kw at 95% (Byd Tang) 100 kwh all the way up to 80%. I prefer flat charging curves like that over the typical NMC/NCA chemistries.
CATL LFP cells in Tesla are also very good 170 kw up to 30%.
LFP cells can take 3C (per spec) with appropriate cooling (Toyota might lack that).
Toyota are intentionally handicaping the car through conservative specs. There are high mobility electrolytes available to easily do 3C in all types of chemistries, especially on very resilient low internal resistance LFP batteries. The bz4x at 210 kw up to 50%, or even 120 kw (1.5C) - would eat the competition alive, but Toyota wants to sell just 2-5% at most hence the awful charging rate. Unfortunately.
Every different battery chemistry has a different charge acceptance rate, so it is not unusual for one type to charge faster than the other. Charging rates also effect battery lifetime cycles, so there can be many reasons for allowing different rates.
Very true, but if Toyota is going to pick a battery with such a terrible rate then they should at least sell it for cheap. This costs way more than a Bolt!
@@mattherndon9317 Somewhere in Japan, in a conference room filled with executives, someone will be trying to say "Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time." Like the gas pumps that play loud music and advertise commercials while you're doing a conventional fillup. (Ugh)
Imagine driving with an Ioniq5 to a fast charge station just to see a bz4x is charging at 99%
Me in my bolt euv
You guys need to go back and re-visit this charging scenario for the 2024 model year. Everything I've read and the data I've seen seems to indicate that they've resolved this issue in the following model year and that the charge time has been significantly reduced.
I don't know what happened, but RUclips decided to put a commercial every 2.5 minutes in this video... Good lord... There was even a commercial during the Magna commercial.
It's sadly a compliance car, but Toyotas best effort. It will sell because of the badge.
Great video. Is there a possibility that there was something wrong with that specific charger that day? Have their been any other documented cases of it doing this? I have an order in for the Solterra and this is kinda alarming for that, even though 99% of my driving will just be within my "bubble".
I really hope he makes this video and/or answers this question you asked
You’re all laughing now, but this is the only election car you’ll still see on the road in 15/20 years. Yes the charging is very slow and inconvenient, but you are almost guaranteed with a long lifespan. If you can only afford to buy one car and drive it for a long time, this is the car to get. I’d say, with this strategy, Toyota has no competitors in this field. But I have no doubt they will offer faster charging once they feel comfortable it won’t effect the longevity. For those people who want to make long roadtrips Toyota offers a large verity of vehicles that are perfect for this purpose. But at the time being, there is no such thing as fast charging and a guaranteed long lifespan of the battery. Toyota wants their vehicles on the road for 15/20 years, at least. With electric cars, this means you’ll have to live with some inconveniences like slow charging.
FWIW: if you're someone who only takes one long trip a year, for like two weeks, and the rest of the time charging at home, the EV you have will last just as long.
Perhaps you have a pre-production model with updates coming.
It is. They should wait for the real deal.
The 0-80 time is completely consistent with the specs given to the press though.
Once we can get Toyotas with their Solid State Battery with 1000 miles range and super fast charge rates, then I will have one in my driveway for sure.
The nerfed Model S 2012-2015 85kWh packs charges faster than a 2022 car, hah.
If it weren't so expensive, this would still be fine for my use case.
I have the BZ4X and can confirm it all , I actually only get as high as 55kw deliverance
This is for the AWD at 100Kw. Do have some info for the FWD at 150Kw??? BZ4X test
I think they should have put the Panasonic in the awd. I did order the awd as it will be used primarily going into our cabin (rough beat up road) and husbands work vehicle, which we do get big dumps of snow. It will be charged up using solar at cabin and his work generates their own electricity, they have block heater plugs available and two chargepoint station, so after a 12 hour shift it should be good to go again, lol. Guess we’re taking our 2017 model s on road trips.
I heard the lexus RZ 450e that has AWD actually uses the panasonoic battery, if you wanted to take a look at that
Nice, Toyota has launched a 2012 spec EV!!
Great video. If I’m not based on what you paid for charging it cost .08 cents per mile to charge the car with 222 miles of range.
One could plug this in on a DC fast charger at lunch and go back to work and it would be about full when time to go home in the evening... Wow. This is a California compliance effort by Toyota and will need more engineering on its charging capabilities before it is widely wanted nationwide.
When the competition are doing sooo much better, this will never be "widely wanted nationwide." This version of it will never be the #1 selling EV in North America - not even close. Same for the Subaru Solterra.
"I'm sure there's Bolt owners that can justify this"
But the Bolt does catch 🔥 .
There's no way the Bolt's slow charging speed is acceptable for a road trip. That's many hours wasted sitting at a charger when your vacation time is precious
@@kakarotsv50
Not since the last software update.
@@Necrotron So it was purely a software issue? Dang. That worries me more, one bug can cause these again?
Are bolts still banned in parking lots?
@@chrisness you missed some key language: "within reason."
You driving across state to see your kid at college? Sure. Upstate to grandma? Absolutely doable. You live in New England and doing a tri-state trek? Totally. You driving from Miami to North Dakota to see the Corn Palace (or is it SD)? FUCK NO.
I've done Homestead, FL to Jacksonville, FL with wife, 2 kids, and a dog in a Bolt. Perfectly fine (you can even check it against A Better Route Planner if you need verification). But something further? No, at that point you get a better charging EV.
Glad I cancelled my reservation for the Subaru Solterra - the exact same car. Cannot imagine taking this thing out in the boonies - short range, no spare tire.
And regarding the amount for range for cost- it is no better than my gas powered Outback.
This is what I was waiting for. I'm getting my $250 back from Subaru, as this is essentially the Solterra.
EDIT: message just sent to Subaru Of America...
Subject: Wish to cancel my Solterra reservation
Comments: RESERVATION CODE: ⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏-⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏
RETAILER:
⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏⟏
I wish to cancel my reservation for the 2023 Solterra for two reasons. The cost is around $5,000 more than Car & Driver / Consumer Reports estimates (which Subaru did not address or correct for months); and a recent independent charging test by Out Of Spec Motoring showed the 100kW CATL-manufactured battery is the worst they have ever reviewed. I cannot in good faith pay over $50,000 after tax for something so lackluster.
My wish, as a Pennsylvania resident, was to first buy a plug-in hybrid - Subaru has the Crosstrek with the 8.8kWh battery that would be absolutely perfect for my short-distance commuting needs and my wish to be friendlier to the environment. Unfortunately, it's not even considered for this state. I hope this is a decision that Subaru corrects in the very near future.
Everyone has an opinion about what a car company should do.
This is the first vehicle that seems realistic about what an electric vehicle is and how it should be treated.
I have always felt that the extremely fast charging of newer EVs are bad for the cars long term. And I am pretty sure Toyota engineers came to the same conclusion and designed the system for longevity not for "fast charging speed".
Let's see how all these EVs do in 10 years. My money is on the BZ4X.
Tesla's have already proven that long term question. Model S has been Supercharging since 2012/ 10 years. The vast majority of packs have stood up very well.
@@Josh-179 Please provide your sources sir.
@@Shackkobe , no need for me to find specifics. Do some searching, this data is all over the internet. There's Teslas with original batteries over 200K miles. There's owners who have almost exclusively Supercharged rather than home charge with healthy batteries.
Kyle talks about his abused Model 3 that he has done countless road trip videos for this channel. Over 100K Supercharging like crazy, going down to 1% often, doing hardcore testing, and so on.
It's not like Tesla just started 3 years ago. There's 10 years of data.
@@Josh-179 For someone who spoke so convincingly I expected you to have these facts at your finger tips. But I guess I was wrong.
FYI, I will not be doing any more researching. I didn't just make an uninformed comment.
Here's a little help for ya, check out Gruber Motor Company channel and see how well all the Tesla roadster batteries are doing.
Trust me, it's not just range loss on these old Teslas.
Well, that was eye-opening.
Hey Kyle, what are the chances Toyota improves this charging curve via software update after they collect more data? Or would the battery just not be capable of better? Even if they held the 80s till like 35-40% before starting the downhill that would be a huge difference. Definitely no reason for the 90s range to be so low though. I mean at least 10-15kw needs to be maintained there.
This is a very early model..maybe even pre-production. Plebty if time for updates. Not worried.
Other reviewers noticed the range estimates were not correct as well. Toyota's estimated 0-60 times were also wrong. This review is of a pre-productuon model
Once these cars are avaiable for delivery time will tell.
Nope. They will tell there buyers to buy the hybrid or wait for the next refresh
I almost ended up getting a BZ4X a few months ago then eventually went with an Ioniq 6. So i guess I lucked out since I went from an apparently crappy one to one of the best in the market.
Subaru confirmed it and Toyota used a huge buffer in one of the reviews elsewhere on RUclips.
Where?
@@motch6182 ruclips.net/video/8OBuzxGSl80/видео.html
As a retired couple who does not put much mileage on our car and would be charging at home, we could live with this car...for the right price. At the current prices, I'm not interested. We generally keep our cars for a long time but EV technology is rapidly changing. Might as well get a Leaf.
The BZ4X seems to be a compliance car without to be compliant.
This is exactly the charging experience people who don't like electrics *think* you'll have. I think toyota is nerfing it this hard to protect their hybrid and phev lineup while they work out their solid state battery tech's longevity.