Abortion wouldn't be so prominent if people, including Christians, would turn away from being sexually immoral. Christians need to unite to be against adultery. God is against sexual immorality. Abortion is one of the concenquences of sexual immorality in our society.
that is an issue BUT the non saved don't have Jesus and don't live by his life giving laws. we can not hold the non saved to the same standards as Christians that know better. fighting against abortion is fighting to save lives, sharing the love of Jesus is fighting to save lives. yes, sexual immorality is gravely self distructive, that's why God speaks against it so much, but the big issue is that we need to bring people to Jesus and to REALLY know him. everything else will come with that. attacking the non saved sins will not save their life. it will push them farther away from the one who can save them. that's why Jesus tells us to approach them with love, because He is love.
My mom was bed-ridden for the last three months of her pregnancy with me. When she was getting close, the doctor asked my dad, "I can only save one of them . . . mom or the baby" to which my dad said "Both". The doctor delivered me (I'm 69) and my mom lived to deliver my little sister (65) and she lived to be 98. What if my dad said "sacrifice the baby"?
My mum was also told by her doctor that one of us won’t make it. My parents made a decision to carry on with the pregnancy. I’m 43 and my mum is still alive.
One of my best friends and mentors had an abortion 40 years ago. Attending a memorial for that baby decades later was one of the biggest honors and redemptive things I've ever witnessed.
A pro life advocate gave one of the most beautiful arguments when presented with the question: Should the government force a woman to give one of her organs to her child? A kidney? Her uterus?. The Lord gave her the answer : I made the uterus for a different purpose. Your kidneys are in your body for your body. Your uterus is in your body for someone else! Every month, it is “in preparation for the anticipation of the next generation”
Absolutely!!! When I learned that my body was working in preparation for a baby even when I’m not menstruating that was amazing to me bc it prooved we were made to create life. That Uterus is literally preparing itself for someone else, another life!! God is so brilliant, purposeful, and good!
I used to believe the “ clump of cells”. I’m ashamed and have asked for forgiveness. I don’t think the “ blame Satan” game is what we should do when sinning, but I do believe Satan for sure had a grip on my heart and mind in those times I thought like that. He’s so wicked and loves manipulating us
It's true that we make our own choices, and it's also true that Satan deceives and manipulates us. We have the opportunity to repent and be forgiven, but I don't see any such promise made to him. I'm glad for you, brother.
I used to help facilitate post-abortion counseling. More than one gal who had a baby as the result of rape was so glad she'd given her baby life. A sense of redemption, like you said. Closure. And joy at the special child she had the opportunity to love and be loved by!
My cousin (more of an older brother) was given birth so my aunt and uncle cculd adopt him. I know how much he meant to them and to me. I suppose it is selfish, but I'm glad my cousin's biirth mother was willing to let him be born an have a better life than she could provide.
Ok, I’m gonna go ahead and comment even though I’m definitely coming back to this video. I know, that’s so annoying. “Abortion is healthcare like rape is love making.” That’s another new one. A year ago I heard for the first time, and I’m 100% Pro-Life, “Abortion does not make the baby go away. The baby still has to come out.” Abortion does not end pregnancy. The mother is giving birth to a dead baby.
Crudely, with good reason, put. Murder is murder regardless of age. If I were to shoot and kill a pregnant woman I would rightly be charged with double murder. Just because A woman decids to abort what makes that not murder? Now, in all fairness a friend of ours was in a medical emergency. Literally her life or the baby. Her pastor placed water and a blessing for baptisism for the baby on her belly because that baby was basiclly giving his life for that of his mother. In that case, wiith that attitide, an knowing it was hearbreaking to our frends, I can understnd.
I’m so sorry Dobbs didn’t change anything in NM. In Alabama, all abortions were illegal the same day. There were people in clinic waiting rooms who had their appointments canceled, praise God. So things did change! my family is praying very regularly for more hearts to be convicted and changed and more laws to be made to protect against murder.
KY's trigger law also went into effect. We've got an amendment on the ballot this year (KY's 2nd amendment) that "no language in the constitution shall be interpreted to create a right to abortion." I'm praying it passes. I believe it was Lila Rose who pointed out that there were thousands of human beings that day that got a 2nd chance at life. I think we can raise those numbers.
I’m SO thankful for this conversation. My sister in-law who claims to be a Christ follower recently changed her stance from that of being pro-life to a very pro-choice stance, especially in the sense that she believes BIPOC women need to be able to abort their babies (what wickedness!). She has her own podcast. In her podcast, she states that because we live in a fallen world, Christian nurses shouldn’t feel bad about the murder of the child “because God will turn a blind eye to this”. She believes God’s Word is too nuanced on this, despite the fact that a few months ago, she used Scriptures to uphold her then pro-life stance. Oh, my heart has grieved heavily over this wickedness. Thank you for making this video. Needed these reminders.
It isn't just Psalm 139 or Jeremiah that states pretty plainly about Life existing in the womb, but John as a fetus leaping for joy in his mother's womb and the approach of Jesus, then an embryo, that should turn all believers' heads toward pro-life. I will pray for your sister in-law.
And you scripture parrots always revert back to the old testament when the KJV isn't enough. And the fact that Leviticus is still a bigger name than Luke or Paul to the average man, proves the KJV has epically failed. So, now, if you have ever pushed anything in the ritual filled old testament, you support abortion. Even Moses supported the equivalent of abortion if the wife got pregnant by another man - that ritual about drinking an elixir...
For the longest time I’ve been ‘confused’ on where I stand on the particulars of abortion but this cleared up everything for me great video as always. ❤
Look up Stephanie Gray Connors. She's an excellent and very articulate pro-life advocate who has a logical and well-thought-out answer for almost every argument anyone who is pro-abortion can throw at you.
@@Dhorpatan you misspelled "that is amazing how much Stephanie gets properly recognized for all the time and hard work she puts into advocating for the protection of children's lives."
Human life begins at conception, and we grow continually from that point. I don't know why that's so hard for some to grasp. What is amazingly easy for all to grasp is that "everyone in favor of abortion have already been born." Ronald Reagan.
I sometimes go to liberal channels on here and have mentioned that fact. I have been told that from their perspective, what is in the womb looks like ET, so it means nothing. Others have said that what is in the womb is equivalent to mold. Could you imagine viewing innocent life like that??? So appalling. Merciless really.
Because when we are our own God, we are and to make our own rules. We want to determine when life begins when God has already established it. We just don’t like it when it’s not in line with our selfish goals. Praise God, thank you Jesus for transforming my mind! And You will never stop!
Amen Jerry! I'll add to that by saying that conception begins at fertilization, something I'd never heard before, but was reading about at the Creation Museum in Kentucky.
As a Christian, a pro life, and one who believes that life begins a the very moment of conception, but sometimes I think there are too much politics are at play in this conversation, I am pro all life, those who are alive, and the unborn also, God is pro all life, I use to go to a senior home to pray for an old man, he was the father of my friend, and I was surprised at the way how they treated some of those old folks, sometimes we treated each others like they are not even human, and at the very same time claiming to be pro life, every life is a special gift from God, and it should be all regarded .
It breaks my heart to see how our Western society treats elderly people! They aren’t dogs to be thrown into a pound. They’re precious souls carefully knit together and made in the image of our loving God and Creator.
Thank you for your comment. As a seasoned citizen (I've not accepte senior citizen or elderly) I am seeing first hand how we who at one ime were physically strong and had real careers are often treated like nobodies. We are broken animals not stupid animals. In addition to pro-life for babies I now believe far more needs to be said to prevent elder abuse ... even in the midless forms. People forget some day I will be you. Blessings to you.
I live in Canada and I became a Christian in 2018. Before I was a Christian I was pro life and I didn't know why....you would think a worldly person wouldn't be but I was (never told anyone but I was). After I became a Christian I understood why I was pro life all glory to God. But when people would say "oh you take away the right of the women to choose" and "no one should tell you what to do". I never seen it that way. Everytime I speak to someone about it I tell them you have already made the choice to accept pregnancy. What I mean by this is the choice started at your decision to have sex not decision to abort. When you have sex you know the the things that can happen ( you can have a baby and you can get an STD). Now some STD's your stuck with so you have made the decision that if you have sex you've accepted this result. If you get AIDS there is no cure....you simply cope....so when I tell some people this they say I never thought of it like that. The choice was whether to have sex not the consequences from having sex....this is where it began.
Becoming pro life brought me back to Christ. I had considered myself pro choice but I was very ignorant . The tough things need to get talked about. Most pro choice people just do not know the truth, like I didn’t know that late term abortions were legal in the US until NY made it legal until birth. I sensed the presence of evil in this. Before that I was a New Ager that didn’t believe in evil at all.
THANK YOU for this discussion!! Jon's compassion is beautiful. He has such an invaluable perspective and I would love to hear more from him on any subject really, but particularly around his shift in beliefs from a naturalist to biblical worldview and the logical arguments around why science and the Bible can and do coexist harmoniously. I haven't checked out the video you linked, Melissa, but certainly will! Please bring him back for more interviews ☺ Edit/Add-on: Would love to see these questions divided into separate videos, especially the last two sections, to potentially share with others! ❤
As a side note, I love that Jon reference both Columbo *and* The Princess Bride in practically the same breath, lol ...What a great man of God! Praise the Lord for pursuing his soul!! ❤🙏🏻
I am really interested in his story, how did he become pro life? He is super charismatic and well explained! This is a video for pro choicers and people on the fence
He became a Christian, so his worldview necessitates it. Being a pro-choice Christian is a contradiction. You’d have to live in willful ignorance to keep that stance
Even though the batter isn’t mixed- the flour, the eggs, the sugar, would you really just throw your ingredients in the trash cause it’s not cake yet. No! Another example I heard is now those ingredients are together and in the oven but someone comes and shuts off the oven. And the baker yells ‘you’ve messed up my cake.’ And the other person says, ‘but it’s not cake yet.’ Baker replies, ‘well, it was gonna be.’
Jon you might get this, or Melissa. My husband brought this up and it’s very valid. Under insurance and legality, “abortion” includes miscarriage. I strongly believe we should be calling intentional killing of infants “aborticide” and the medical loss of life due to some accident or incompatibility, miscarriage. There is a clear difference and we lose clarity in the argument without making the clear distinction.
We have to remember that there is common definitions, legal definitions, liturgical definitions and medical definitions. Abortion, because of all its ramifications is in the medical sense just the end of a pregnancy for all reasons.
Excellent point, Ruth. It was beyond painful seeing my miscarriages labeled "missed abortions" in my paperwork. Everyone using the same term for these two very different situations need to be ashamed. Language needs to be changed sooner rather than later.
Abortion is a medical term. There is a difference between a spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) and therapeutic abortion, which is what is colloquially known as just plain abortion.
At 4 weeks the structures of the baby is already developed including organs. Most women are closer to 8 weeks when they even realize they were with child.
Thank you so much for this video! My husband, said from his pulpit that we must be pro-choice because Jesus was about choices….and I quote…. He refuses to change his views -his leadership at his church is also pro-choice and progressive. I love to hear these conversations so I can argue the point of pro-life.
My step-daughter (part of her universities raptor club) felt pity for a mouse that was pregnant that she had eviscerated to feed to a raptor. Yet she is stringent pro-choice.
@@mistermurtad2831 I care deeply about this issue, of course. I've held Pro Life signs at Planned Parenthood for rally events, currently help raise my brother's three children that he cannot take care of on his own, and I am seeking ways to educate people around me about the benefits of abstinence before marriage. But I will always have a soft spot for all of God's creations. Such as animals, insects, and plant life included. Hence the message ^-^ It wasn't meant to change the topic by any means, it just spoke to me since everyone has already stated nearly everything there is to say on the other comments that [are] on topic.
@@irenemadrid9258 I love animals as well, but I place more value on human life. If a squirrel were to run out in front of me, I would not endanger my passengers to avoid it. It just hit me that she felt pity for a a mouse and her fetal mice, but seems to turn a blind eye at the equivalent of human life.
I really appreciate the focus and appeal to logic and science from this guy. It’s the argument most Christians miss on this topic. To those who don’t believe in God, what good will “because He said so” do? But looking at the science - real unique humanity from the moment of conception. (That’s when the ingredients are mixed, btw) The logic God gave us SHOULD be used in the primary in this argument.
Thank you for discussing this topic. God opened my eyes to evil through abortion when I was lost in the New Age beliefs and recognizing how precious life is and how evil the killing of innocent babies are brought me back to Christ. Most of my friends still in the New Age are pro choice because they believe they are giving the babies back to Source and they will be reincarnated where they are wanted.
I am alive now. When will I be considered dead? The doctors consider me medically dead when my heart and brain activity ceases, regardless of whether I'm dependent on machines or another person for support. Can we at least recognize that once a baby has a beating heart and brain activity, it must be alive, regardless of whether it can survive without support?
I can’t quote which scripture, but in there God says ‘Before you were formed in the womb, I knew you’. Kinda says it all in my book... That clump of cells, by Biblical definition, is a unique human life.
It's best to call it what it is, how many would be mothers make a choice and are thus saddled with the consequences after the fact? It's bad enough it occurs at all. How many women make uninformed decisions like this? This is a tragedy all around every time
The question of, "when does life begin?" is much more a cultural question than a scientific one. Even death is difficult to define, one can be brain dead, comatose, persistent vegetative state, etc. That said, many believe life begins at conception. I completely respect that belief, and in some ways I still believe that myself. However, we live in a fallen world, and sometimes, abortion is necessary and the best option in a situation. Should it be a last resort? I believe so, yes, and I think most people, Christian or not, would agree. That's why comprehensive sex education and easy access to birth control including plan B, are critical if we truly want to reduce the number of abortions. Shaming and attacking women and people who provide these services, enacting extremely restrictive and/or ambiguous laws that force doctors to become lawyers, imposing your personal beliefs on everyone else...at that point, it's not about being pro-life. It's about CONTROL. The vast majority of pregnancies do not end in abortion, and those that do are often very, very early on in the pregnancy, where they don't even need surgery, just a pill. It's not like people 7, 8, 9 months pregnant just waltz into a clinic and say "nahh I don't wanna do this anymore." Even if someone did, no OBGYN or any legitimate doctor would do it. There's more I could say, but please have grace and empathy for those who choose to seek an abortion. Better to not have a child at all than to be forced into having one that you may resent, or are in no way able to provide them a loving, healthy home and a dignified life.
No, the question of when life begins is a biological one, as a new human organism comes into existence at conception. Separating biological humanity from "cultural" personhood is an ends-driven distinction that morally degenerated societies and individuals use in order to deny human rights to human beings they wish to eliminate or exploit. This arbitrary distinction has been used to justify genocide and chattel slavery, for example. Moral societies and individuals recognize that human rights belong to all humans. No one is entitled to kill an innocent human being to escape an unfortunate situation. Life is hard, but we don't get to off people we find inconvenient in order to make it less hard. The old excuses about "having a child you may resent" or being unable to provide a suitable home are particularly tired, given the fact that there are long waiting lists of people seeking to adopt infants.
In regards to the last question posed, “What if the mother’s life is in danger?” I asked my OB/GYN how often that is the case. And his response was rather informative. He said in almost 0 cases is abortion the necessary treatment to save the life of a mother. He was very clear that it is not so much that a pregnancy cannot threaten a mother‘s life, but that an abortion was rarely the necessary step in order to save it. What he meant by that was simply intentionally going in to the mothers womb to inject a poison that would kill the baby, or to do a procedure in which the babies limbs were sucked by a vacuum ripping its body apart was actually more dangerous to a mother whose life was already in a fragile state due to a pregnancy to begin with. He said that other procedures, like inducing labor would be a safer treatment in which case the baby is not being murdered but rather forced to leave the womb where nature then would take its course. I’m sure there are cases that are extremely rare where maybe that is not the situation, but I think it’s a fair perspective to consider that in the less than 1% of all abortions were the mothers life is truly in danger, it is even a smaller percent where abortion is the necessary saving step.
*"but I think it’s a fair perspective to consider that in the less than 1% of all abortions were the mothers life is truly in danger, it is even a smaller percent where abortion is the necessary saving step."* How convenient the doctors information almost certainly lines up exactly with your personal beliefs about abortion.
I do agree that this issue is a moral dilemma. And I believe the dilemma is the individual's which is why I'm prochoice. I, being Christian, truly believe that abortion is wrong so I would never encourage abortion (why would anyone?) but I don't believe it is my place to impose my beliefs on others. Just because I wouldn't do it or advocate for it, doesn't mean I would fight against someone who is at that crossroads. It is their decision to make and they are going to make it whether it's legal or not so I find these Pro life Vs Pro choice agruments so tiring. Divorce is perfectly legal, I also don't believe in it nor would I encourage it. But that's my moral view, it may not be another person's. And I also don't believe any sin is greater than another and this is another reason these discussions boggle my mind. That being said, I still appreciate hearing them.
If you are truly a Christian, morality is objective and defined by God, the creator and redeemer of all mankind. If that is not what you believe, respectfully, it's time to question your salvation.
Christians are so strong against it because it is murder. The baby was refused the chance to life. The baby truly existed. The baby doesn't disappear because of abortion, but is killed. He or she was really alive. People need to stop being sexually immorally. This is why God tells us how to live righteously through Him. People are turning murder because they are being sexually immoral.
Women don't have the right to turn children to medical waste to be tossed in the fire of the clinic incinerator. That's not a valid choice and as a Christian you should know that God had something to say about treating children like trash.
Also, case of the life of the mother - that is also the life of the child. Etopic pregnancy, chemical miscarriage, actual life-threatening situations, doctors DO try to save both lives in real health care cases. And if the baby is at a point that it will not and cannot survive, then yes save the mother. But you better be sure that’s the case.
Although I believe that fetuses are babies and their lives are precious, I don't think this should be a thing that our government can dictate. I do think that counseling should be required as it is a grave choice. I don't believe that abortion itself is right. However, my concern is that at times these medical procedures may be necessary such as in the death of the baby in utero and/or retained miscarriages. If Other even more rare serious scenarios may occur as well, such as severe risk of death to mother if continuing the pregnancies. For these rare cases I believe the issue is a moral one, rather than a legislative one. If these procedures are outlawed in rare situations that they are necessary, that mother will not receive the care she needs in a clearly difficult time, making it worse. I'm not sure why this viewpoint isn't voiced more often by either side.
But that's simply not true. Miscarriage treatment had nothing to do with abortions as the baby has already died. Statistically zero people would be against such treatments. And in the rare case of a pregnancy becoming life threatening... Simply induced labor. The baby may not survive but there is a world of difference between a baby tragically dying because they're born too early and a physician purposefully killing a baby before it's born. Edit: the fact remains that one of the few true purposes of the government is to protect the lives of its citizens. (Right to life) Abolishing abortion saves the lives of babies because abortion is straight up murder. That's why it's a legislative issue.
I offered to adopt a baby for someone very close so she wouldn’t have an abortion. She still wouldn’t go through with the pregnancy. How do you reach someone, it was as if I was killing that child because I couldn’t stop her.
It sounds like you did everything in your power to advocate for the baby, but unfortunately it's ultimately up to the mother weather or not to value and protect that little one :'( statistically most abortion minded women would rather kill the baby than put it up for adoption and sometimes the suggestion of adoption can actually push them further towards abortion- which I find shocking and impossible to understand. Try instead putting the mother in touch with the organization "LET THEM LIVE" which strive to meet all the mothers needs and provide all the support/counseling/housing/financial/legal help needed so she'll feel better able to keep her baby. They are AMAZING!!!!!
You Tube: knock off the Blue warnings below certain, usually "hot topics". Let people think for themselves on Abortion, Covid, etc. We don't want or Need AI guidance.
The reason people SUPPORT abortion is b/c of the teaching of evolution. I was adoptee (she was 19), I'm friends of 4 adoptees (they were born outside of America)
Okay so they are struggling emotionally about having to deal with a baby, that's their excuse, but what about a lifetime of regret that they will have to deal with later? Its better to put the child up for adoption.
I don’t read the original languages of the biblical eras , so I’m not sure if certain words existed or they just rewrote certain words to fit there feelings about things but , the word abomination really is almost separate from the word sin like it’s something gods not going to forget to mention to you even tho he supposedly doesn’t remember sin once forgiven. It was a special hatred he had for these things idk .
Even the word "abomination" in our English Bibles represents two different words in Hebrew. There are clearly distinctions between different sins, and God especially hates murder and any harm done to children and babies.
Just because you become a Christian doesn’t mean that you can’t be waist deep in politics. There needs to be more and more Christians in politics because on this earth our daily lives are affected by political leaders from Washington to the local parish.
Regarding the life of the mother, Dr Anthony Levantino (a former abortionist) has a good video discussing whether abortion is ever medically necessary. Definitely worth a watch.
I actually heard someone who helped me understand the clump of cells argument. It's important to converse in good faith about what non arbitrary standards make a human living vs not living yet vs dead. The perspective was along these lines: "It has to be both human and living to have inherent value. "Living" is generally attributed with having some kind of conscious experience. It's the one level of development that can change everything. That's what separates someone who's on life support and kept alive from someone who's pronounced brain dead. Currently, our technology demonstrates that doesn't happen for unborn human beings before 15 weeks. Any movement before that is pure reflex." I know how to find the holes or steelman every other pro choice talking point apart from this explanation. Granted the other individual doesn't have an image bearer of God worldview. The best I've found so far is to just disagree on there being a "not yet" living human option after conception and to heir on the side of treating and believing the baby is already a whole person.
You'd look to the natural development: the baby is still developing, not deteriorating. If an adult was no longer conscious, but in a vegetative state of mind and body, even if you pulled their life support, which is preventing them from unnaturally deteriorating, you wouldn't burn them alive in chemicals or rip them limb from limb to kill them.
Interesting point about "the fewer the better". I can see that being pushed for sure. Why people think we are overpopulated when the birth rate in western nations hasn't been sustainable for decades.
Melissa, Great conversation as usual! Any chance you can get the links to the research he mentions @ 1:00:42 about moms who complete a birth after rape and the positive role it can play in healing?
Concerning the dilemma of the mother will die if she gives birth to the child. This is totally my personal opinion and the way I understand John 15:13..... Greater love has no one than this, that a man lay down his life for his friend. My conclusion being that if I was in that position, I would with love guve up my life, for my child. That he/she may have the future that God has planned fir them.
If it's really such a medical necessity, I wonder why they spend time on the extra step of killing the child. A baby can be delivered or c-sectioned while she's still alive (it happens all the time, actually), so is it really "medically necessary" to kill her? Maybe she's not "viable" yet and wouldn't survive, but isn't there a difference between giving her just the slimmest of chances and actively killing her? Those are just my thoughts on medically necessary abortion.
And you bring up a question I'd love to ask Jesus face-to-face: You said, "No one has greater love than to lay down his life for his friends," and then You laid down Your life for Your enemies. Isn't that greater? I don't think it's a contradiction; I just think there's something there I'm not really understanding.
I can’t watch was this right away so I’m posting my question here so I don’t forget. Is abortion something that should be available in the corrupted society that we live in?
I can't comprehend the idea that it is a double murder when someone kills a pregnant mother AND her unborn baby, at six or 40 weeks gestation yet it's not murder if the pregnant mother chooses to have her unborn child killed at a clinic or hospital. It's completely messed up. It's unfathomable yet It's true. I just don't understand.
As far as the concern for contraception restrictions go there was a Republican politician who inferred that they would be going after contraception and gay marriage being legal. I'm not sure but that Republican politician may have been directly involved in the overturning, which got people nervous as well. I am pro life but I am also left leaning (green party specifically) so I get to hear both sides. I try and change a pro choice persons mind whenever possible. It does indeed go back to the question what is the unborn that they need to answer. If you can get them to realize it's a living human from day one the battle is already half over. You can then bring out SLED to point out the inconsistencies in the pro choice arguments. If you can get enough pro choice people to change their mind to pro life it's going to be a lot easier to keep elective abortion illegal, so I think ground work is extremely important. I love his idea of having reaady solutions for pregnant mothers for every objection one can come up with.
As far as the healthcare and abortion argument goes when it actually does constitute healthcare and the life of the mother and/or baby is at risk and at that point you are dealing with the potential,likely, or definite loss of at least one life, I believe it should be up to the mother and doctor to decide the best course of action. If the mother chooses to continue the pregnancy she knows the risks. I don't think legality should be in these types of situations as they vary based on what is wrong with the mother,what is wrong with the baby, and when the problem presents itself. Elective I'm 100% it being illegal.
For the cake idea it's already in the oven so it like a cake already in process but their are taking it out the oven before it ready in turn killing the cake
There were books referenced in this video. I believe minimum 2? One Jon recommended Melissa read and the other was mentioned around the 50 min mark. Does anyone know what the name and authors of both these books are? Melissa said she always has it in her back round and the other Melissa said she never read.
i live in NY and abortions are leagal up untill baby passes threw birth canal..... you can be in labor and still have an abortion. our current governor wants to make it legal to uave 30 days afture birth to decide if you are going to allow baby to have life or give it death. it makes it hard to live in such a denomic state and pay taxes that pay for these murders. my area is statistically the godless corner of the country. we have prayed about moving but these people need Jesus and i think that's why we are here.
Roe vs. Wade argued that abortion being illegal would mean a woman's healthcare privacy would be violated in a way other citizens' wouldn't and therefore would violate the 14th amendment of equal enforcement. By this "protection of privacy", we couldn't ban ANY medical procedure or practice. If I want to sell my organs for cash, they could only prevent that by violating my privacy right?! How dare they butt in between the opioid addict and their doctor and say what can be prescribed! It's such an unbelievable stretch.
Abortion should be legal but not offered as a choice unless there is rape, incest or it hurts the life of the mother, child. We need to be reasonable . For those of us who are pro-life it shouldn't be an issue that it is legal because we know we aren''t going to opt for that. The best we can do is educate, love and preach the gospel to those around us so they can make right choices..
Yesterday I think I finally came off the fence. This after years of hearing arguments especially from my mom who supports abortion in certain cases. But in these last few weeks I've also been listening to arguments from Students for Life. And many holes are poked in many of the pro-choice pushback - particular when human life begins. If you have to dehumanize a baby to justify abortion, something is very wrong. So I've now come to not supporting abortion at all. This issue isn't as complex as often presented. A fetus in a woman's womb is a human and intentionally killing someone is murder. If abortion is intentionally killing a human being, it's wrong. He/she is an innocent human who should be protected and treasured as all human life. Does a baby deserve to die because of the evil done against the mother? They're both victims and one life shouldn't be more important than the other. I hope we can have more meaningful and productive conversations with each other - not *at* each other.
I am mostly pro life but torn, but I have an issue with christians forcing their standards and beliefs on others via laws. We were never told to shove our beliefs down someones throat. We are all individually responsible to God for what WE do and that other person is similarly responsible for what they do. There are pregnancies out there that are very much wanted and were going to be carried to term but something is fatally wrong with the baby. But it will suffer horribly before it finally dies. What loving mother wouldn't move to spare their child as much suffering as possible? That is what mothers do. Those women need to be able to get intervention and protect their child the best they can. The way things stand, in some places they and the child have to suffer and that is not Godly and it is wrong. That bothers me. I would rather each person be responsible on judgment day for God to judge their actions than have my idea of what is good and right be forced on someone and cause someone/s grave suffering that is unrighteous. "Romans 14:1-23 ESV As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. ..." "Romans 14:13 ESV Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother."
Wait!!! So 1% of people don't matter because they are the rare case? Whoaaa.....that is NOT christian for sure. I'm SO not with that. The choice just becomes, are you willing for the seldom valid cases to suffer so that the rest of the people are forcibly stopped from abortion. People keep telling me there are exceptions built in for that...but they're not, not really, not now, and that is a problem for me.
Mothers do want to spare their children suffering, but children are not the property or pets of their mothers. Children are human beings in their own right and have a right not to be killed.
@@mbb-- They also have a right not to suffer if their mother can do something about it. Mothers stop and attempt to stop needless suffering of their children all day and night every day and night. It's what we do.
@@WindsofChange That line of reasoning justifies mothers killing their autistic two-year-olds or mentally disabled kindergartners. A child is not your sick golden retriever or your property in any sense.
@WindsofChange Speak for yourself. I am a mother and would never murder any of my children for ANY reason. Shame on you and may God have mercy on your soul if you ever did/do this.
The more I assess pro-choice arguments the more I see they don't hold up nor do they align with scripture. So I have enough reason to come off the fence and reject abortion.
I would never get an abortion I feel it is killing but I think that it should be a CHOICE for people who don't feel the same way as me. What is so difficult for people to understand this concept.
Is it a human SOUL?* This should be the argument. When does God put the soul in the womb? I read a woman's "spiritual" book years ago that had a belief that made perfect sense to me at the time. I don't know if it can be proved biblically. They said, "Our heavenly father knows all. He knows our future & would know the future of the unborn. He would certainly know & consider every woman's personal situation before placing this treasure into the care of each mother. He would foresee the circumstances of how the pregnancy came about. If it was an unwanted unexpected pregnancy ~God who works within perfect divine order would wait at least 4 months before allowing that SOUL to enter the fetus foreseeing the chance of the mother rejecting the responsibilty & saying NO to the gift of being a vessel to bring that SOUL into the world. He would cherish each soul & never want it to experience horrors of suffering an abortion. Waiting at least 4 months before allowing a soul to enter its body. I couldn't imagine a baby making factory in heaven where God blows a whistle & tells those precious souls,"Ready set! Go! Jump into the womb time!" Crossing his fingers, cringing & hoping for the best like every soul is like a gamble. ~It made perfect sense to me. Doctrine of demons or divine truth?
This would allow freewill of the mother's choices & guarantees more safety for each baby. So if this could be true it would definitely be very wrong to get long term abortions.
I'm pro-choice and will remain pro-choice. And also...to keep as a reminder..."pro-choice" is not the same thing as "pro-abortion". I'm tired of that. It is what it says it is "pro CHOICE". Women should be allowed CHOICE. That's all it is. Most people want less abortions.
I'm pro life and my name is Dora (writing under husband s account)and I am an xdrug addict who had an abortion. I feel that I killed my baby but in a way that baby would have been in an abusive home with a junkie mom. I'm Not excusing my terrible sin. I'm just saying it worked out for the best in spite of my wrongdoing
A pregnancy is a crossroads in life and our future will be dramatically different depending on how we respond. Because you had an abortion there are many things you didn't experience that would be hard for you to desire you had experienced. I get how you feel it worked out for the best, as you can't imagine having a different past and present than you have. I think you would have likely been an abusive and neglectful mum, drug addicts often are abusive and neglectful parents. Not a guarantee you would have been, indeed there's a story I read about a mother giving her 2 sons foetal alcohol syndrome through her addiction, yet they were never in Foster care or adopted. While there must have been some neglect and abuse, it was never brought to the attention of social services, and it wasn't extreme. She overcame her addiction and is a dedicated mother. You could have put your baby up for adoption, or tried to get clean for your baby, there was another way other than abortion, which if you'd taken you wouldn't be looking back and wishing you'd had an abortion. Of course things can and do work out well despite wrong doing. We don't have karma, our life events aren't there to punish us, God can even use the bad for good. I am glad you are clean now and able to live a life free from drugs. Drugs aren't easy to come off.
@@FronteirWolf why do people think it’s that simple? Addiction is NOT as easy as going cold turkey because you’re pregnant. There are negative effects that a child can have for life that was not something they signed up for. Adoption is a scam. It’s extremely expensive, and a lot of children never get adopted and age out of the system. Most people claiming people should put their child up for adoption aren’t even adopting kids especially if they aren’t an infant. If the child is born addicted it’s a turn off for parents looking for the “perfect” child. I think the original poster made the best decision for themselves and the baby. If they decide to have more they’ll experience motherhood and all the things you described. A one off shot of someone being in the same situation and making it out is just that. Rare. Christians are selfishly putting themselves in other’s business because once that baby is here no one cares what happens to them and that is so unfair.
My boyfriend was conceived of rape and his mother was a meth addict. When she realized she was pregnant she quit drugs. She now has three healthy children. However, my boyfriend had to mostly raise his siblings and the men his mother brought home would often be abusive verbally and physically, especially to his mother. I’m glad he was born but not the circumstances of how he came about. What would have happened if she hadn’t decided to get clean? What if she did keep the abusive boyfriends around and ended up getting killed or something happened to the children? There’s so many factors and everyone’s story is different.
It is the Right for the Christ One to speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves. Everyone alive today is alive because their mother survived the bullshit of this world and gave birth to them....that includes me. Hi how ya doing?
Every good thing comes from God...we take things like our God given brain and then let the culture dictate Who God is and is not for us.... and we can all be guilty of honoring and or worshiping the creation more than the Creator. We all need forgiveness and it is available by the ONLY One that it is truly gonna benefit us by humbly going to Him for help. Lord Jesus help us be that vessel that You desire us to be...shrewd as serpents...(testing the spirits and holding these thoughts captive)and yet gentle as doves. Only way into the Kingdom is to be born again. I pray we all see Jesus as Savior and Lord...before we only know Him as our Judge....
1) Life: Bearing a child carries with it an inherent, imminent, and increasing risk of death or grievous bodily harm. 2) Liberty: A person cannot be forced to use their body at the service of another; that's called slavery. 3) Security of the Person: A person cannot be forced to endure medical risk, physical pain, and mental suffering; that's called torture. These are INALIENABLE birth rights, which means they are mine, by virtue of having been BORN alive, and cannot be taken from me, even unto the death of another, without my consent. Thus, how is abortion anything other than self defense?
Abortion wouldn't be so prominent if people, including Christians, would turn away from being sexually immoral. Christians need to unite to be against adultery. God is against sexual immorality. Abortion is one of the concenquences of sexual immorality in our society.
Bingo!!!
Not just adultery- but fornication as well. All sexual immorality.
that is an issue BUT the non saved don't have Jesus and don't live by his life giving laws. we can not hold the non saved to the same standards as Christians that know better. fighting against abortion is fighting to save lives, sharing the love of Jesus is fighting to save lives. yes, sexual immorality is gravely self distructive, that's why God speaks against it so much, but the big issue is that we need to bring people to Jesus and to REALLY know him. everything else will come with that. attacking the non saved sins will not save their life. it will push them farther away from the one who can save them. that's why Jesus tells us to approach them with love, because He is love.
@@peacefulhome6 Oh, please...it's mostly the Christians out here doing the sexual sins anyway. Always has been. Nothing new.
Exactly. If you don’t want children, don’t engage in an activity that makes them!!!!!!
My mom was bed-ridden for the last three months of her pregnancy with me. When she was getting close, the doctor asked my dad, "I can only save one of them . . . mom or the baby" to which my dad said "Both". The doctor delivered me (I'm 69) and my mom lived to deliver my little sister (65) and she lived to be 98. What if my dad said "sacrifice the baby"?
Praise Jesus!
Love this! 👏🏻 💕
Praise the Lord!
My mum was also told by her doctor that one of us won’t make it. My parents made a decision to carry on with the pregnancy. I’m 43 and my mum is still alive.
congratulations, now, you experience is not everyone's experience.
"Abortion is healthcare like rape is love making." Word! Thank you for this Melissa and Jon. Please do a Part 2!
I've never heard that one before. That is good one.
One of my best friends and mentors had an abortion 40 years ago. Attending a memorial for that baby decades later was one of the biggest honors and redemptive things I've ever witnessed.
A pro life advocate gave one of the most beautiful arguments when presented with the question: Should the government force a woman to give one of her organs to her child? A kidney? Her uterus?.
The Lord gave her the answer : I made the uterus for a different purpose.
Your kidneys are in your body for your body.
Your uterus is in your body for someone else! Every month, it is “in preparation for the anticipation of the next generation”
That's beautiful. And so very, very true.
Love this. GOd is so good and faithful!
uh no, your uterus is not for other person, and even if it still being like that, it is still being the woman's uterus.
Absolutely!!! When I learned that my body was working in preparation for a baby even when I’m not menstruating that was amazing to me bc it prooved we were made to create life. That Uterus is literally preparing itself for someone else, another life!! God is so brilliant, purposeful, and good!
@@kristinarobinson3241 And, 98+ percent of all those new lives eventually go to Hell. Yes, God is good.👍😉
You know the video is going to be good when they put the fact checker "context" bubble on it!
I don't se any fact checker bubble.. Maybe it's a country thing..
💯💯 facts! 😂😂
@Crym The fact that your comment got 69 thumbs up is a disgrace for the humans that did so.
I used to believe the “ clump of cells”. I’m ashamed and have asked for forgiveness. I don’t think the “ blame Satan” game is what we should do when sinning, but I do believe Satan for sure had a grip on my heart and mind in those times I thought like that. He’s so wicked and loves manipulating us
It's true that we make our own choices, and it's also true that Satan deceives and manipulates us. We have the opportunity to repent and be forgiven, but I don't see any such promise made to him. I'm glad for you, brother.
I used to help facilitate post-abortion counseling. More than one gal who had a baby as the result of rape was so glad she'd given her baby life. A sense of redemption, like you said. Closure. And joy at the special child she had the opportunity to love and be loved by!
My cousin (more of an older brother) was given birth so my aunt and uncle cculd adopt him. I know how much he meant to them and to me. I suppose it is selfish, but I'm glad my cousin's biirth mother was willing to let him be born an have a better life than she could provide.
@@mikenixon2401 No, not selfish. It's very loving. And admirable.
Ok, I’m gonna go ahead and comment even though I’m definitely coming back to this video. I know, that’s so annoying. “Abortion is healthcare like rape is love making.” That’s another new one. A year ago I heard for the first time, and I’m 100% Pro-Life, “Abortion does not make the baby go away. The baby still has to come out.” Abortion does not end pregnancy. The mother is giving birth to a dead baby.
Exactly. Also, if a woman gets pregnant after being raped, murdering the baby doesn't un-rape her.
Crudely, with good reason, put. Murder is murder regardless of age. If I were to shoot and kill a pregnant woman I would rightly be charged with double murder. Just because A woman decids to abort what makes that not murder? Now, in all fairness a friend of ours was in a medical emergency. Literally her life or the baby. Her pastor placed water and a blessing for baptisism for the baby on her belly because that baby was basiclly giving his life for that of his mother. In that case, wiith that attitide, an knowing it was hearbreaking to our frends, I can understnd.
The only choice is a live baby or a dead baby
@@Justin-zv4cm It doesn’t take away the trauma.
@@Breatheintomeandmakemereal Exactly.
I’m so sorry Dobbs didn’t change anything in NM. In Alabama, all abortions were illegal the same day. There were people in clinic waiting rooms who had their appointments canceled, praise God. So things did change! my family is praying very regularly for more hearts to be convicted and changed and more laws to be made to protect against murder.
KY's trigger law also went into effect. We've got an amendment on the ballot this year (KY's 2nd amendment) that "no language in the constitution shall be interpreted to create a right to abortion." I'm praying it passes.
I believe it was Lila Rose who pointed out that there were thousands of human beings that day that got a 2nd chance at life. I think we can raise those numbers.
@@Yashael341 me too. I support the good work Lila rose does, but that is all that I will support her for.
Every atrocity begins by dehumanizing the victim. Abortion is no different.
I’m SO thankful for this conversation. My sister in-law who claims to be a Christ follower recently changed her stance from that of being pro-life to a very pro-choice stance, especially in the sense that she believes BIPOC women need to be able to abort their babies (what wickedness!). She has her own podcast. In her podcast, she states that because we live in a fallen world, Christian nurses shouldn’t feel bad about the murder of the child “because God will turn a blind eye to this”. She believes God’s Word is too nuanced on this, despite the fact that a few months ago, she used Scriptures to uphold her then pro-life stance. Oh, my heart has grieved heavily over this wickedness. Thank you for making this video. Needed these reminders.
It isn't just Psalm 139 or Jeremiah that states pretty plainly about Life existing in the womb, but John as a fetus leaping for joy in his mother's womb and the approach of Jesus, then an embryo, that should turn all believers' heads toward pro-life. I will pray for your sister in-law.
And you scripture parrots always revert back to the old testament when the KJV isn't enough. And the fact that Leviticus is still a bigger name than Luke or Paul to the average man, proves the KJV has epically failed.
So, now, if you have ever pushed anything in the ritual filled old testament, you support abortion. Even Moses supported the equivalent of abortion if the wife got pregnant by another man - that ritual about drinking an elixir...
This may seem irrelevant, but did the flip happen after she got the jab?
My heart hurts for you. Keep standing firmly on the Rock of Christ and keep loving her. I pray she will come back to her "roots" of love and truth.
So...she's not only supporting murder, she's also a racist eugenicist??
For the longest time I’ve been ‘confused’ on where I stand on the particulars of abortion but this cleared up everything for me great video as always. ❤
Look up Stephanie Gray Connors. She's an excellent and very articulate pro-life advocate who has a logical and well-thought-out answer for almost every argument anyone who is pro-abortion can throw at you.
Also check out live actions channel video’s about abortion they are perfectly pro life
@@LlarytheTN
*"She's an excellent and very articulate pro-life advocate"*
That is amazing how much Stephanie gets her butt kissed by people. Wow!
@@Dhorpatan you misspelled "that is amazing how much Stephanie gets properly recognized for all the time and hard work she puts into advocating for the protection of children's lives."
@@LlarytheTN An almost certain Caucasian person profusely praising another Caucasian person. That's real original Hillary.🙄🤮
At 9 weeks all organs are formed...fingers Face, arms, legs, teeth buds, the kidneys and heartbeat all functioning.
Just wanted to say Thank you Melissa for all you do. Love&prayers
Human life begins at conception, and we grow continually from that point. I don't know why that's so hard for some to grasp. What is amazingly easy for all to grasp is that "everyone in favor of abortion have already been born." Ronald Reagan.
I sometimes go to liberal channels on here and have mentioned that fact. I have been told that from their perspective, what is in the womb looks like ET, so it means nothing. Others have said that what is in the womb is equivalent to mold. Could you imagine viewing innocent life like that??? So appalling. Merciless really.
Satan IS blinding their eyes
Because when we are our own God, we are and to make our own rules. We want to determine when life begins when God has already established it. We just don’t like it when it’s not in line with our selfish goals.
Praise God, thank you Jesus for transforming my mind! And You will never stop!
@@jenniferwalsh1731
Amen 🙏
Amen Jerry! I'll add to that by saying that conception begins at fertilization, something I'd never heard before, but was reading about at the Creation Museum in Kentucky.
As a Christian, a pro life, and one who believes that life begins a the very moment of conception, but sometimes I think there are too much politics are at play in this conversation, I am pro all life, those who are alive, and the unborn also, God is pro all life, I use to go to a senior home to pray for an old man, he was the father of my friend, and I was surprised at the way how they treated some of those old folks, sometimes we treated each others like they are not even human, and at the very same time claiming to be pro life, every life is a special gift from God, and it should be all regarded .
It breaks my heart to see how our Western society treats elderly people! They aren’t dogs to be thrown into a pound. They’re precious souls carefully knit together and made in the image of our loving God and Creator.
Thank you for your comment. As a seasoned citizen (I've not accepte senior citizen or elderly) I am seeing first hand how we who at one ime were physically strong and had real careers are often treated like nobodies. We are broken animals not stupid animals. In addition to pro-life for babies I now believe far more needs to be said to prevent elder abuse ... even in the midless forms. People forget some day I will be you. Blessings to you.
I live in Canada and I became a Christian in 2018. Before I was a Christian I was pro life and I didn't know why....you would think a worldly person wouldn't be but I was (never told anyone but I was). After I became a Christian I understood why I was pro life all glory to God.
But when people would say "oh you take away the right of the women to choose" and "no one should tell you what to do". I never seen it that way. Everytime I speak to someone about it I tell them you have already made the choice to accept pregnancy. What I mean by this is the choice started at your decision to have sex not decision to abort. When you have sex you know the the things that can happen ( you can have a baby and you can get an STD). Now some STD's your stuck with so you have made the decision that if you have sex you've accepted this result. If you get AIDS there is no cure....you simply cope....so when I tell some people this they say I never thought of it like that. The choice was whether to have sex not the consequences from having sex....this is where it began.
That's exactly why I use my hand
I'm the only one for me 🖐️.
This is a terrible argument
@@marianagastelum6051why? What would be the logical fallacies?
Becoming pro life brought me back to Christ. I had considered myself pro choice but I was very ignorant . The tough things need to get talked about. Most pro choice people just do not know the truth, like I didn’t know that late term abortions were legal in the US until NY made it legal until birth. I sensed the presence of evil in this. Before that I was a New Ager that didn’t believe in evil at all.
Everything I've ever thought but couldn't articulate ❤ God bless you and all of Gods work you're doing
THANK YOU for this discussion!! Jon's compassion is beautiful. He has such an invaluable perspective and I would love to hear more from him on any subject really, but particularly around his shift in beliefs from a naturalist to biblical worldview and the logical arguments around why science and the Bible can and do coexist harmoniously. I haven't checked out the video you linked, Melissa, but certainly will! Please bring him back for more interviews ☺
Edit/Add-on: Would love to see these questions divided into separate videos, especially the last two sections, to potentially share with others! ❤
As a side note, I love that Jon reference both Columbo *and* The Princess Bride in practically the same breath, lol
...What a great man of God! Praise the Lord for pursuing his soul!! ❤🙏🏻
I love Nick he is an inspiration to everyone. He was born with no arms or legs but he lives a full life!!! Married has children he is awesome
I am really interested in his story, how did he become pro life? He is super charismatic and well explained! This is a video for pro choicers and people on the fence
He became a Christian, so his worldview necessitates it. Being a pro-choice Christian is a contradiction. You’d have to live in willful ignorance to keep that stance
Even though the batter isn’t mixed- the flour, the eggs, the sugar, would you really just throw your ingredients in the trash cause it’s not cake yet. No!
Another example I heard is now those ingredients are together and in the oven but someone comes and shuts off the oven. And the baker yells ‘you’ve messed up my cake.’ And the other person says, ‘but it’s not cake yet.’ Baker replies, ‘well, it was gonna be.’
Yes, but it is cake, just not fully baked.
@@moorek1967🎯
So Glad you made a Video on this Topic! I thought it would be Interesting to hear your Thoughts about this.
Jon you might get this, or Melissa. My husband brought this up and it’s very valid. Under insurance and legality, “abortion” includes miscarriage. I strongly believe we should be calling intentional killing of infants “aborticide” and the medical loss of life due to some accident or incompatibility, miscarriage. There is a clear difference and we lose clarity in the argument without making the clear distinction.
We have to remember that there is common definitions, legal definitions, liturgical definitions and medical definitions. Abortion, because of all its ramifications is in the medical sense just the end of a pregnancy for all reasons.
That would be spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) vs. elective abortion.
Excellent point, Ruth. It was beyond painful seeing my miscarriages labeled "missed abortions" in my paperwork. Everyone using the same term for these two very different situations need to be ashamed. Language needs to be changed sooner rather than later.
Abortion is a medical term. There is a difference between a spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) and therapeutic abortion, which is what is colloquially known as just plain abortion.
Agreed. They are not the same and therefore shouldn't be called by the same word.
At 4 weeks the structures of the baby is already developed including organs. Most women are closer to 8 weeks when they even realize they were with child.
Thank you so much for this video! My husband, said from his pulpit that we must be pro-choice because Jesus was about choices….and I quote….
He refuses to change his views -his leadership at his church is also pro-choice and progressive.
I love to hear these conversations so I can argue the point of pro-life.
God bless you.
Kind regards Kim
My step-daughter (part of her universities raptor club) felt pity for a mouse that was pregnant that she had eviscerated to feed to a raptor. Yet she is stringent pro-choice.
Aww, that poor mouse and mice :(
@@irenemadrid9258 What about unborn human life? How do you feel?
@@mistermurtad2831 I care deeply about this issue, of course. I've held Pro Life signs at Planned Parenthood for rally events, currently help raise my brother's three children that he cannot take care of on his own, and I am seeking ways to educate people around me about the benefits of abstinence before marriage. But I will always have a soft spot for all of God's creations. Such as animals, insects, and plant life included. Hence the message ^-^ It wasn't meant to change the topic by any means, it just spoke to me since everyone has already stated nearly everything there is to say on the other comments that [are] on topic.
@@irenemadrid9258 I love animals as well, but I place more value on human life. If a squirrel were to run out in front of me, I would not endanger my passengers to avoid it.
It just hit me that she felt pity for a a mouse and her fetal mice, but seems to turn a blind eye at the equivalent of human life.
I really appreciate the focus and appeal to logic and science from this guy. It’s the argument most Christians miss on this topic. To those who don’t believe in God, what good will “because He said so” do?
But looking at the science - real unique humanity from the moment of conception. (That’s when the ingredients are mixed, btw)
The logic God gave us SHOULD be used in the primary in this argument.
Thank you for discussing this topic. God opened my eyes to evil through abortion when I was lost in the New Age beliefs and recognizing how precious life is and how evil the killing of innocent babies are brought me back to Christ. Most of my friends still in the New Age are pro choice because they believe they are giving the babies back to Source and they will be reincarnated where they are wanted.
I am alive now. When will I be considered dead?
The doctors consider me medically dead when my heart and brain activity ceases, regardless of whether I'm dependent on machines or another person for support.
Can we at least recognize that once a baby has a beating heart and brain activity, it must be alive, regardless of whether it can survive without support?
Ooh, this’ll be good. Looking forward to this!
This was a great discussion. I pray that this helps someone and pushes them to study more and ultimately turn to Jesus for forgiveness.
I just found your channel today and I am so glad I did! Thanks for everything you do and bring to the channel.
"My body my choise"... The answer that come to my mind is: it is actually not your body by the way..."
This interview made me cry at times. Great interview.
I can’t quote which scripture, but in there God says ‘Before you were formed in the womb, I knew you’. Kinda says it all in my book...
That clump of cells, by Biblical definition, is a unique human life.
It's best to call it what it is, how many would be mothers make a choice and are thus saddled with the consequences after the fact? It's bad enough it occurs at all. How many women make uninformed decisions like this? This is a tragedy all around every time
The question of, "when does life begin?" is much more a cultural question than a scientific one. Even death is difficult to define, one can be brain dead, comatose, persistent vegetative state, etc. That said, many believe life begins at conception. I completely respect that belief, and in some ways I still believe that myself.
However, we live in a fallen world, and sometimes, abortion is necessary and the best option in a situation. Should it be a last resort? I believe so, yes, and I think most people, Christian or not, would agree. That's why comprehensive sex education and easy access to birth control including plan B, are critical if we truly want to reduce the number of abortions. Shaming and attacking women and people who provide these services, enacting extremely restrictive and/or ambiguous laws that force doctors to become lawyers, imposing your personal beliefs on everyone else...at that point, it's not about being pro-life. It's about CONTROL.
The vast majority of pregnancies do not end in abortion, and those that do are often very, very early on in the pregnancy, where they don't even need surgery, just a pill. It's not like people 7, 8, 9 months pregnant just waltz into a clinic and say "nahh I don't wanna do this anymore." Even if someone did, no OBGYN or any legitimate doctor would do it.
There's more I could say, but please have grace and empathy for those who choose to seek an abortion. Better to not have a child at all than to be forced into having one that you may resent, or are in no way able to provide them a loving, healthy home and a dignified life.
No, the question of when life begins is a biological one, as a new human organism comes into existence at conception. Separating biological humanity from "cultural" personhood is an ends-driven distinction that morally degenerated societies and individuals use in order to deny human rights to human beings they wish to eliminate or exploit. This arbitrary distinction has been used to justify genocide and chattel slavery, for example. Moral societies and individuals recognize that human rights belong to all humans. No one is entitled to kill an innocent human being to escape an unfortunate situation. Life is hard, but we don't get to off people we find inconvenient in order to make it less hard. The old excuses about "having a child you may resent" or being unable to provide a suitable home are particularly tired, given the fact that there are long waiting lists of people seeking to adopt infants.
In regards to the last question posed, “What if the mother’s life is in danger?” I asked my OB/GYN how often that is the case. And his response was rather informative. He said in almost 0 cases is abortion the necessary treatment to save the life of a mother. He was very clear that it is not so much that a pregnancy cannot threaten a mother‘s life, but that an abortion was rarely the necessary step in order to save it. What he meant by that was simply intentionally going in to the mothers womb to inject a poison that would kill the baby, or to do a procedure in which the babies limbs were sucked by a vacuum ripping its body apart was actually more dangerous to a mother whose life was already in a fragile state due to a pregnancy to begin with. He said that other procedures, like inducing labor would be a safer treatment in which case the baby is not being murdered but rather forced to leave the womb where nature then would take its course. I’m sure there are cases that are extremely rare where maybe that is not the situation, but I think it’s a fair perspective to consider that in the less than 1% of all abortions were the mothers life is truly in danger, it is even a smaller percent where abortion is the necessary saving step.
*"but I think it’s a fair perspective to consider that in the less than 1% of all abortions were the mothers life is truly in danger, it is even a smaller percent where abortion is the necessary saving step."*
How convenient the doctors information almost certainly lines up exactly with your personal beliefs about abortion.
Another thing to consider is that when in the womb the baby releases fetal cells that can help heal the mother in some ways.
@Dhorpatan How convenient that facts hurt your feelings.
@@Dhorpatan Sometimes the truth just isn't to YOUR liking.
I’m reminded of what I heard somewhere…”can’t raise warriors from the grave” it was a gut punch.
I do agree that this issue is a moral dilemma. And I believe the dilemma is the individual's which is why I'm prochoice. I, being Christian, truly believe that abortion is wrong so I would never encourage abortion (why would anyone?) but I don't believe it is my place to impose my beliefs on others. Just because I wouldn't do it or advocate for it, doesn't mean I would fight against someone who is at that crossroads. It is their decision to make and they are going to make it whether it's legal or not so I find these Pro life Vs Pro choice agruments so tiring. Divorce is perfectly legal, I also don't believe in it nor would I encourage it. But that's my moral view, it may not be another person's. And I also don't believe any sin is greater than another and this is another reason these discussions boggle my mind. That being said, I still appreciate hearing them.
If you are truly a Christian, morality is objective and defined by God, the creator and redeemer of all mankind. If that is not what you believe, respectfully, it's time to question your salvation.
Christians are so strong against it because it is murder. The baby was refused the chance to life. The baby truly existed. The baby doesn't disappear because of abortion, but is killed. He or she was really alive. People need to stop being sexually immorally. This is why God tells us how to live righteously through Him. People are turning murder because they are being sexually immoral.
So what you're saying is; murder of the unborn should be legal because some people want to murder their unborn child?
Women don't have the right to turn children to medical waste to be tossed in the fire of the clinic incinerator. That's not a valid choice and as a Christian you should know that God had something to say about treating children like trash.
Imagine letting tens of thousands of children be murdered per year because you don't want to impose your views onto others.
Also, case of the life of the mother - that is also the life of the child. Etopic pregnancy, chemical miscarriage, actual life-threatening situations, doctors DO try to save both lives in real health care cases. And if the baby is at a point that it will not and cannot survive, then yes save the mother. But you better be sure that’s the case.
My heart goes out to the women and men suffering from violence and abuse more so towards the babies who suffer from the abuse coming from the parents.
Although I believe that fetuses are babies and their lives are precious, I don't think this should be a thing that our government can dictate. I do think that counseling should be required as it is a grave choice. I don't believe that abortion itself is right. However, my concern is that at times these medical procedures may be necessary such as in the death of the baby in utero and/or retained miscarriages. If Other even more rare serious scenarios may occur as well, such as severe risk of death to mother if continuing the pregnancies. For these rare cases I believe the issue is a moral one, rather than a legislative one. If these procedures are outlawed in rare situations that they are necessary, that mother will not receive the care she needs in a clearly difficult time, making it worse. I'm not sure why this viewpoint isn't voiced more often by either side.
But that's simply not true. Miscarriage treatment had nothing to do with abortions as the baby has already died. Statistically zero people would be against such treatments. And in the rare case of a pregnancy becoming life threatening... Simply induced labor. The baby may not survive but there is a world of difference between a baby tragically dying because they're born too early and a physician purposefully killing a baby before it's born.
Edit: the fact remains that one of the few true purposes of the government is to protect the lives of its citizens. (Right to life) Abolishing abortion saves the lives of babies because abortion is straight up murder. That's why it's a legislative issue.
I offered to adopt a baby for someone very close so she wouldn’t have an abortion. She still wouldn’t go through with the pregnancy. How do you reach someone, it was as if I was killing that child because I couldn’t stop her.
It sounds like you did everything in your power to advocate for the baby, but unfortunately it's ultimately up to the mother weather or not to value and protect that little one :'( statistically most abortion minded women would rather kill the baby than put it up for adoption and sometimes the suggestion of adoption can actually push them further towards abortion- which I find shocking and impossible to understand. Try instead putting the mother in touch with the organization "LET THEM LIVE" which strive to meet all the mothers needs and provide all the support/counseling/housing/financial/legal help needed so she'll feel better able to keep her baby. They are AMAZING!!!!!
18 year old or younger shouldn’t be given choice imo … their young brain hasn’t developed enough to make a decision like that.
Two wrongs don't make a right. Thus completely agrees in my spirit.
please make a part 2!!!!
You Tube: knock off the Blue warnings below certain, usually "hot topics". Let people think for themselves on Abortion, Covid, etc.
We don't want or Need AI guidance.
Excellent discussion!
The reason people SUPPORT abortion is b/c of the teaching of evolution.
I was adoptee (she was 19), I'm friends of 4 adoptees (they were born outside of America)
Okay so they are struggling emotionally about having to deal with a baby, that's their excuse, but what about a lifetime of regret that they will have to deal with later? Its better to put the child up for adoption.
I don’t read the original languages of the biblical eras , so I’m not sure if certain words existed or they just rewrote certain words to fit there feelings about things but , the word abomination really is almost separate from the word sin like it’s something gods not going to forget to mention to you even tho he supposedly doesn’t remember sin once forgiven. It was a special hatred he had for these things idk .
Even the word "abomination" in our English Bibles represents two different words in Hebrew. There are clearly distinctions between different sins, and God especially hates murder and any harm done to children and babies.
Just because you become a Christian doesn’t mean that you can’t be waist deep in politics. There needs to be more and more Christians in politics because on this earth our daily lives are affected by political leaders from Washington to the local parish.
Thank u great show.
Regarding the life of the mother, Dr Anthony Levantino (a former abortionist) has a good video discussing whether abortion is ever medically necessary. Definitely worth a watch.
Amen! There's no condemnation in Jesus❤
Science proves life begin at conception. Bible says the same thing. Your body is your choice besides when it involves killing another Human.
I actually heard someone who helped me understand the clump of cells argument. It's important to converse in good faith about what non arbitrary standards make a human living vs not living yet vs dead. The perspective was along these lines:
"It has to be both human and living to have inherent value. "Living" is generally attributed with having some kind of conscious experience. It's the one level of development that can change everything. That's what separates someone who's on life support and kept alive from someone who's pronounced brain dead. Currently, our technology demonstrates that doesn't happen for unborn human beings before 15 weeks. Any movement before that is pure reflex."
I know how to find the holes or steelman every other pro choice talking point apart from this explanation. Granted the other individual doesn't have an image bearer of God worldview. The best I've found so far is to just disagree on there being a "not yet" living human option after conception and to heir on the side of treating and believing the baby is already a whole person.
You'd look to the natural development: the baby is still developing, not deteriorating.
If an adult was no longer conscious, but in a vegetative state of mind and body, even if you pulled their life support, which is preventing them from unnaturally deteriorating, you wouldn't burn them alive in chemicals or rip them limb from limb to kill them.
@@rebeccagordon2718 I feel like there could be a hole in that rebuttal. It's tricky to handle different kinds of deteriorating with consistent ethics.
Melissa, I thought you were from California. So are you in Santa Fe or ABQ? BTW. I used to live in San Antonia, NM.
At what age is a child no longer relying on another human being for their life...5, 5, 6?
🤔 these days.... about 35. 😂
This was great!!!
If a person is ok with saving the mother vs the child …. that’s pro-choice
Interesting point about "the fewer the better". I can see that being pushed for sure. Why people think we are overpopulated when the birth rate in western nations hasn't been sustainable for decades.
Overpopulation myth is just that: a myth.
Melissa, Great conversation as usual! Any chance you can get the links to the research he mentions @ 1:00:42 about moms who complete a birth after rape and the positive role it can play in healing?
Very informative video.
Concerning the dilemma of the mother will die if she gives birth to the child. This is totally my personal opinion and the way I understand John 15:13..... Greater love has no one than this, that a man lay down his life for his friend. My conclusion being that if I was in that position, I would with love guve up my life, for my child. That he/she may have the future that God has planned fir them.
If it's really such a medical necessity, I wonder why they spend time on the extra step of killing the child. A baby can be delivered or c-sectioned while she's still alive (it happens all the time, actually), so is it really "medically necessary" to kill her? Maybe she's not "viable" yet and wouldn't survive, but isn't there a difference between giving her just the slimmest of chances and actively killing her?
Those are just my thoughts on medically necessary abortion.
And you bring up a question I'd love to ask Jesus face-to-face:
You said, "No one has greater love than to lay down his life for his friends," and then You laid down Your life for Your enemies. Isn't that greater?
I don't think it's a contradiction; I just think there's something there I'm not really understanding.
I can’t watch was this right away so I’m posting my question here so I don’t forget. Is abortion something that should be available in the corrupted society that we live in?
Also I think that another important question is that if the mothers life more important or the baby.
I can't comprehend the idea that it is a double murder when someone kills a pregnant mother AND her unborn baby, at six or 40 weeks gestation yet it's not murder if the pregnant mother chooses to have her unborn child killed at a clinic or hospital. It's completely messed up. It's unfathomable yet It's true. I just don't understand.
And a single called organism is life but a baby isn't.
As far as the concern for contraception restrictions go there was a Republican politician who inferred that they would be going after contraception and gay marriage being legal. I'm not sure but that Republican politician may have been directly involved in the overturning, which got people nervous as well. I am pro life but I am also left leaning (green party specifically) so I get to hear both sides. I try and change a pro choice persons mind whenever possible. It does indeed go back to the question what is the unborn that they need to answer. If you can get them to realize it's a living human from day one the battle is already half over. You can then bring out SLED to point out the inconsistencies in the pro choice arguments. If you can get enough pro choice people to change their mind to pro life it's going to be a lot easier to keep elective abortion illegal, so I think ground work is extremely important. I love his idea of having reaady solutions for pregnant mothers for every objection one can come up with.
I was in a dialogue with someone who ended up questioning if born humans were entitled to human rights. I was not prepared for that.
Grown clump of cells listening Melissa.
As far as the healthcare and abortion argument goes when it actually does constitute healthcare and the life of the mother and/or baby is at risk and at that point you are dealing with the potential,likely, or definite loss of at least one life, I believe it should be up to the mother and doctor to decide the best course of action. If the mother chooses to continue the pregnancy she knows the risks. I don't think legality should be in these types of situations as they vary based on what is wrong with the mother,what is wrong with the baby, and when the problem presents itself. Elective I'm 100% it being illegal.
For the cake idea it's already in the oven so it like a cake already in process but their are taking it out the oven before it ready in turn killing the cake
Life starts when a human starts breathing and ends when a human stops. It's not rocket science.
Not quite.
So a human who isn’t breathing is dead? Please don’t ever consider being a paramedic.
There were books referenced in this video. I believe minimum 2? One Jon recommended Melissa read and the other was mentioned around the 50 min mark. Does anyone know what the name and authors of both these books are? Melissa said she always has it in her back round and the other Melissa said she never read.
i live in NY and abortions are leagal up untill baby passes threw birth canal..... you can be in labor and still have an abortion. our current governor wants to make it legal to uave 30 days afture birth to decide if you are going to allow baby to have life or give it death. it makes it hard to live in such a denomic state and pay taxes that pay for these murders. my area is statistically the godless corner of the country. we have prayed about moving but these people need Jesus and i think that's why we are here.
Roe vs. Wade argued that abortion being illegal would mean a woman's healthcare privacy would be violated in a way other citizens' wouldn't and therefore would violate the 14th amendment of equal enforcement.
By this "protection of privacy", we couldn't ban ANY medical procedure or practice. If I want to sell my organs for cash, they could only prevent that by violating my privacy right?! How dare they butt in between the opioid addict and their doctor and say what can be prescribed!
It's such an unbelievable stretch.
Abortion should be legal but not offered as a choice unless there is rape, incest or it hurts the life of the mother, child. We need to be reasonable . For those of us who are pro-life it shouldn't be an issue that it is legal because we know we aren''t going to opt for that. The best we can do is educate, love and preach the gospel to those around us so they can make right choices..
So the life of the child has less value if it's a rape/incest baby?
Hey Melissa! Have you seen the state of theology study? It's very concerning.
Yesterday I think I finally came off the fence. This after years of hearing arguments especially from my mom who supports abortion in certain cases.
But in these last few weeks I've also been listening to arguments from Students for Life. And many holes are poked in many of the pro-choice pushback - particular when human life begins. If you have to dehumanize a baby to justify abortion, something is very wrong.
So I've now come to not supporting abortion at all. This issue isn't as complex as often presented. A fetus in a woman's womb is a human and intentionally killing someone is murder. If abortion is intentionally killing a human being, it's wrong. He/she is an innocent human who should be protected and treasured as all human life.
Does a baby deserve to die because of the evil done against the mother? They're both victims and one life shouldn't be more important than the other.
I hope we can have more meaningful and productive conversations with each other - not *at* each other.
Hey, a fellow Bay Stater! Sup Jon! :😁😁😁
I am mostly pro life but torn, but I have an issue with christians forcing their standards and beliefs on others via laws. We were never told to shove our beliefs down someones throat. We are all individually responsible to God for what WE do and that other person is similarly responsible for what they do.
There are pregnancies out there that are very much wanted and were going to be carried to term but something is fatally wrong with the baby. But it will suffer horribly before it finally dies. What loving mother wouldn't move to spare their child as much suffering as possible? That is what mothers do. Those women need to be able to get intervention and protect their child the best they can. The way things stand, in some places they and the child have to suffer and that is not Godly and it is wrong. That bothers me. I would rather each person be responsible on judgment day for God to judge their actions than have my idea of what is good and right be forced on someone and cause someone/s grave suffering that is unrighteous.
"Romans 14:1-23 ESV
As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. ..."
"Romans 14:13 ESV
Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother."
Wait!!! So 1% of people don't matter because they are the rare case? Whoaaa.....that is NOT christian for sure. I'm SO not with that. The choice just becomes, are you willing for the seldom valid cases to suffer so that the rest of the people are forcibly stopped from abortion. People keep telling me there are exceptions built in for that...but they're not, not really, not now, and that is a problem for me.
Mothers do want to spare their children suffering, but children are not the property or pets of their mothers. Children are human beings in their own right and have a right not to be killed.
@@mbb-- They also have a right not to suffer if their mother can do something about it. Mothers stop and attempt to stop needless suffering of their children all day and night every day and night. It's what we do.
@@WindsofChange That line of reasoning justifies mothers killing their autistic two-year-olds or mentally disabled kindergartners. A child is not your sick golden retriever or your property in any sense.
@WindsofChange Speak for yourself. I am a mother and would never murder any of my children for ANY reason. Shame on you and may God have mercy on your soul if you ever did/do this.
The more I assess pro-choice arguments the more I see they don't hold up nor do they align with scripture. So I have enough reason to come off the fence and reject abortion.
The statement about when they can sustain themselves...haha....ha....at age 23....I can barely sustain myself........ha.....
I would never get an abortion I feel it is killing but I think that it should be a CHOICE for people who don't feel the same way as me. What is so difficult for people to understand this concept.
Look, I wouldn't kill my coworker, but I think it should be a choice for people who don't feel the same way as me.
l wish the internet with peeps like you were around when l was young. l may have stopped to listen, and ended up with more children. :(
Explain in detail...how you would enforce a ban on abortion....that didn't just effect poor women?
Is it a human SOUL?*
This should be the argument. When does God put the soul in the womb?
I read a woman's "spiritual" book years ago that had a belief that made perfect sense to me at the time. I don't know if it can be proved biblically.
They said, "Our heavenly father knows all. He knows our future & would know the future of the unborn. He would certainly know & consider every woman's personal situation before placing this treasure into the care of each mother. He would foresee the circumstances of how the pregnancy came about. If it was an unwanted unexpected pregnancy ~God who works within perfect divine order would wait at least 4 months before allowing that SOUL to enter the fetus foreseeing the chance of the mother rejecting the responsibilty & saying NO to the gift of being a vessel to bring that SOUL into the world. He would cherish each soul & never want it to experience horrors of suffering an abortion. Waiting at least 4 months before allowing a soul to enter its body.
I couldn't imagine a baby making factory in heaven where God blows a whistle & tells those precious souls,"Ready set! Go! Jump into the womb time!" Crossing his fingers, cringing & hoping for the best like every soul is like a gamble. ~It made perfect sense to me. Doctrine of demons or divine truth?
This would allow freewill of the mother's choices & guarantees more safety for each baby.
So if this could be true it would definitely be very wrong to get long term abortions.
I'm pro-choice and will remain pro-choice. And also...to keep as a reminder..."pro-choice" is not the same thing as "pro-abortion". I'm tired of that. It is what it says it is "pro CHOICE". Women should be allowed CHOICE. That's all it is. Most people want less abortions.
It's still advocating for the CHOICE of killing babies. So yes, it is pro abortion.
@@katie7748right.
Pretty simple ..... thou shall not kill. Period !
Watch the movie "LifeMark", life changing! (Kirk Cameron)
I'm pro life and my name is Dora (writing under husband s account)and I am an xdrug addict who had an abortion. I feel that I killed my baby but in a way that baby would have been in an abusive home with a junkie mom. I'm Not excusing my terrible sin. I'm just saying it worked out for the best in spite of my wrongdoing
A pregnancy is a crossroads in life and our future will be dramatically different depending on how we respond. Because you had an abortion there are many things you didn't experience that would be hard for you to desire you had experienced. I get how you feel it worked out for the best, as you can't imagine having a different past and present than you have.
I think you would have likely been an abusive and neglectful mum, drug addicts often are abusive and neglectful parents. Not a guarantee you would have been, indeed there's a story I read about a mother giving her 2 sons foetal alcohol syndrome through her addiction, yet they were never in Foster care or adopted. While there must have been some neglect and abuse, it was never brought to the attention of social services, and it wasn't extreme. She overcame her addiction and is a dedicated mother.
You could have put your baby up for adoption, or tried to get clean for your baby, there was another way other than abortion, which if you'd taken you wouldn't be looking back and wishing you'd had an abortion.
Of course things can and do work out well despite wrong doing. We don't have karma, our life events aren't there to punish us, God can even use the bad for good.
I am glad you are clean now and able to live a life free from drugs. Drugs aren't easy to come off.
@@FronteirWolf why do people think it’s that simple? Addiction is NOT as easy as going cold turkey because you’re pregnant. There are negative effects that a child can have for life that was not something they signed up for. Adoption is a scam. It’s extremely expensive, and a lot of children never get adopted and age out of the system. Most people claiming people should put their child up for adoption aren’t even adopting kids especially if they aren’t an infant.
If the child is born addicted it’s a turn off for parents looking for the “perfect” child. I think the original poster made the best decision for themselves and the baby. If they decide to have more they’ll experience motherhood and all the things you described. A one off shot of someone being in the same situation and making it out is just that. Rare. Christians are selfishly putting themselves in other’s business because once that baby is here no one cares what happens to them and that is so unfair.
My boyfriend was conceived of rape and his mother was a meth addict. When she realized she was pregnant she quit drugs. She now has three healthy children. However, my boyfriend had to mostly raise his siblings and the men his mother brought home would often be abusive verbally and physically, especially to his mother. I’m glad he was born but not the circumstances of how he came about. What would have happened if she hadn’t decided to get clean? What if she did keep the abusive boyfriends around and ended up getting killed or something happened to the children? There’s so many factors and everyone’s story is different.
Say to Phaero let my people go! There is nothing new under the Sun.
It is the Right for the Christ One to speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves. Everyone alive today is alive because their mother survived the bullshit of this world and gave birth to them....that includes me. Hi how ya doing?
Every good thing comes from God...we take things like our God given brain and then let the culture dictate Who God is and is not for us.... and we can all be guilty of honoring and or worshiping the creation more than the Creator.
We all need forgiveness and it is available by the ONLY One that it is truly gonna benefit us by humbly going to Him for help.
Lord Jesus help us be that vessel that You desire us to be...shrewd as serpents...(testing the spirits and holding these thoughts captive)and yet gentle as doves.
Only way into the Kingdom is to be born again.
I pray we all see Jesus as Savior and Lord...before we only know Him as our Judge....
🙂👍
1) Life: Bearing a child carries with it an inherent, imminent, and increasing risk of death or grievous bodily harm.
2) Liberty: A person cannot be forced to use their body at the service of another; that's called slavery.
3) Security of the Person: A person cannot be forced to endure medical risk, physical pain, and mental suffering; that's called torture.
These are INALIENABLE birth rights, which means they are mine, by virtue of having been BORN alive, and cannot be taken from me, even unto the death of another, without my consent. Thus, how is abortion anything other than self defense?
Wow. Abortion is self defense. I’ve heard a lot of disgusting takes but this is at least number two. Margaret Sanger would be proud.