The Flaw with the Abortion Argument
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- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2020
- Abortion is one of the most hot-button topics in our world today. That's not to say that both sides have coherent arguments though... One side ignores a crucial question that we must always ponder: when does life begin?
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I had the second situation but decided to keep my child. She has grown up and could not have children. Another woman gave birth to a little girl who she did not want. I now have a beautiful granddaughter.
So beautiful! Thank you for sharing. God bless your family.
That was a wonderful story.
Wonderful decision! Congratulations.
You lot took bad things and made great things out of it wow just wow
God bless your family!
I was an adopted child from Catholic Charities of Chicago. I've often wondered about my real parents but remembered What Jesus said to John, from the cross, "Woman behold your son, son behold your mother. I accepted my adoptive parents as a gift from Jesus. Pray for us Fr. Casey
Your real parents are the ones that raised you. Parent is the one who loves, cares, teaches, provides for you, they are your parents. You can allways look for your biological parents. But who ever they are, what ever reason they gave you away for, remember that you should be gratefull to them for bringing you to this world, but you had parents. Dont forget it
@@JohannaNazareen1225 they might have been adopted as a baby or they could have been treated badly by their real parents or their real parents didn’t have enough money to raise them
@@theunknownuser6891 They aren't his "real parents". They're his biological parents. Are his adopted parents fake or not real?
@@jasper2621 when I say real parents I refer to ones who made the child
@@theunknownuser6891 Yeah, but that's offensive to the adoptive parents. Just say biological parents.
I still don´t understand, why it is always " go to abortion or give birth and take care of baby" and no one is talking about adoption as a option. In my country there is project "Babybox". The principle is that near every hospital is a box, when mother if she doesn´t want a child, she will give child inside the box anonymously and close it. On the other side of the box the nurse open it and take the baby, which will later be adopted. The baby has no identity (the nurse has to give it a name), but it is still better option, then abortion.
As a adopted person myself I am always amazed that the choice is always made out to be binary. We should encourage adoption and make it as painless as possible for both the birth parents and the adoptive parents.
Have you ever heard of the psychologist that created the idea? He also thought of imprinting with ducklings. Anyway, he put his daughter in a baby box. That's when the play pen idea was invented. I don't think anything, including abortion, is completely polarized, but we make it that way. I'm thankful Father gave us this topic.
That is a good plan and yes adoption is a good idea
Personally I think people are ashamed of pregnancy. Many adoptions during teenage and young adult years are made cause the fear of what the society will think and what will be about the future of the moms. Also, if an adopted person do not know his/her roots than the self imagine can be wrong. Adopted people when they do not know them biological parents often make up stories about how it is them fault that the parents do not wanted them. I personally think adoption is much better than abortion, but open adoption is proven to be much better than the close adoption.
We have Baby Safe Haven laws in the US that vary from state to state. Most allow a mother to anoymously leave a healthy baby at a hospital (some have drawers for drop off) emergency personnel (police or fire dept.) and in some states churches or adoption agencies. Most allow at least 24 hrs for her to change her mind and some states allow the drop off of toddlers. Fatal abuse in the US has exponentially increased after abortion was legalized and rates continue to climb. Children under the age of two are the most common victims of fatal abuse and share the same dependency, helplessness and inability to defend or speak up for themselves as the child in the womb. You often see people argue that abortion decreases child abuse but it is fatal abuse and incidence of child abuse, abandonment, poverty, neglect, trafficking and fatal abuse has not decreased, at least in the US, but exponentially increased yearly from when Roe vs Wade was decided.
You treated the boyfriend who fled the woman as if he were nothing more than another circumstance she's facing. I think it's cause for outrage. If she aborts because he did that and wouldn't have had he stayed, then he's every bit as responsible for the killing of the baby - maybe more so.
This is the very problem of the phrase "a woman's right to choose." It comes to serve a man's "right" to use. When the baby's father is irresponsible, or domineering, or callous, or when her employer is, or when her family is, or when there are insufficient institutional supports at her school or workplace, then large numbers of people have responsibility for the death of the baby. Saying it's her choice masks the blame that should be held on all people who took part in seeing the baby isn't welcomed. And it hides the observation that in many cases it isn't really HER choice at all. Only one choice and no choice at all are the same thing.
I think the "woman's right to choose" is a con game, and we should stop using that phrase on occasions when it hides the sexist pressures (and often racist pressures, and often poverty pressures) that are really going on.
Excellent points.
Well said. A "partner" who abandons the woman he gets pregnant pushing her towards to decision to abort is absolutely also at fault for the death of the child. The same could be said for the other parties you described, especially her family.
But in America, the Abortion Argument is 'a Woman's Right to Choose'. This goes to her making a choice, no matter what helped to influence her decision. Right now, a woman may have an abortion and a man doesn't technically have any say.
We all know that very often, the abortion is done (to the woman) because of what he wants, and her desire to make him happy.
I had a very good friend who impregnated his girlfriend, that was about 15 years ago. He was making reasonably good money, had his own place, I would say he was stable. He pleaded, begged her to keep the baby, even wanted to marry her, but this heartless woman said that all she just wanted from him was to cover to cost of the abortion. He made it clear to her that, he wouldn't spend a penny for abortion, but was prepared to take all the responsibilities as a dad if she decides to keep the baby. Long story short she paid for the abortion herself.
Great point, a father's responsibility is extremely important as well as the systems making it difficult for women to be mothers.
Let us pray for all women who are considering having abortions and support charities that support single young mothers.
Nick D these charities have a tendency to try to make more money off of people who will pay for the babies in might as well be on the black market
@Matt Blaise I don[t hang around any of those ppl .... I never did .
A good real charity is Let Them Live, they're awesome.
I think all we can do is pray for them and support them in anyway we can no matter what their decision is
For those people who don't want to donate $$ to certain charities because of potential fraud and abuse, I totally get that. Because, once you donate $$, you have NO idea where that $$ goes.
So, instead, donate directly to these mothers. Donate formula, diapers, baby clothes, etc. directly to these ladies. They likely will not turn you down, and God will look kindly upon your soul.
But, be sure that your motives are sincere, and not disingenuous.
Dcn Paul+
Dioc. St. Augustine
The Chinese way of calculating one's age is always one year older than the international way. When a child is just born, the child is one year old. Not 0 years. Why ? The child has already spent 9 months in the mother's womb.
No, it's because programmers didn't design it /s
While many cultures around the world do this, the reasoning you give is incorrect. They number ages start from 1 because immediately after it is born, the baby is in its 1st year out of the womb, where cultures starting from zero are simply counting how many years *old* they are, ie how much time has elapsed since the birth. It is the *grammatical* difference between whether we describe age using cardinal numbers (elapsed time since birth) or ordinal numbers (which year of their post-birth life if you were to write them out in an ordered list, starting from the 1st), not a difference in degree of recognition of the life of the preborn-if it were, China would undoubtedly have SWITCHED to numbering from so the implications of the numbering didn’t undermine their one-child/two-child policies and the abortions they forced upon parents to enforce said policies.
@@IONATVS How many cultures in the world start counting one's age from the womb and how many count age from exit of the womb ?
Counting age from the womb instead of from exit recognises life commencement. What is the definition of age ? It is how old you are. How long you have spent biological life on earth. Not how long you have exited from your mum's womb.
The Chinese way of counting age is 2000 years old. China Communist Party is 99 years old.
Jeremiah Ong I’m not saying it wouldn’t be a GOOD thing to recognize the actual start of life at conception in more obvious ways like counting age from conception instead of from birth, but I an merely stating a fact; no culture on Earth to my knowledge does. Many cultures start counting from one but they don’t do so because they are better people who universally recognize embryos and fetuses as real human beings who deserve dignity, but just because they structure the sentences they use to talk about age differently-so treating it as some indicator of moral superiority is silly. And it should be obvious that they aren’t counting from one for the reason you propose because for most of history people have known that conception was approximately 9 months before natural birth, but had no way to track it more precisely than that-and they start at “1”, not “3/4”; For practical reasons it’s just *easier* to track a date of birth, which for most kids can be known exactly, than a date of fertilization, which really couldn’t until the advent of modern technology (unless the mother knew from context that there was only one possible day it could have been, ofc) and these cultures have been reckoning their age from 1 for centuries, if not millenia. Furthermore, such systems of reckoning just as often arise just as often in cultures that value the preborn as in those that do not.
Again, I’m not trying to say your reasoning might not be a good way to think of age, but just because their system of reckoning ages results in the same number for large parts of the year does not magically mean they were thinking about the dignity of the preborn when they made it, and there is historical and grammatical evidence that disproves the hypothesis that they might have.
Me too,that’s how I calculated people’s age though am from Africa
Mother Teresa of Calcutta said that abortion is the greatest destroyer of peace. She and her order fought, and still fights, abortion with adoption. I asked st. Teresa of Calcutta how I can help with her ministry. She replied that I need to help the poorest of the poor in my country and I will be helping her out. Mother Teresa continued and said the poorest of the poor in the United states are the unborn who are in danger of being aborted, and if I fight abortion, I am helping her ministry.
Oh Yes.This is True...and just.Go ahead..Don't fear...I 'll do the same here
I live in Kolkata, and one of her greatest books that have had an impact is Come be My Light, about her dark night which she experienced for most of her life.
Mother Theresa was evil
If you agree with them demonstrate that life starts at conception basically and I can't wait till people forget about Mother Teresa because she really was not a good person
Mother Teresa is no role model. She revelled in suffering. Her support is a good reason to support the opposition.
Its a ticky subject. May God guide the women who are in this predicament.
Ticky?
I, too, pray for the women in this predicament. But I also pray for their family and friends, those who teach and nurture them. I pray that we (those who are the family, friends and teachers of others) help them to make good choices, as many times, it is the woman alone who suffers.
@@roscianyt I think they meant tricky
Why did God allow them to get pregnant in the first place?
@Matthew Brady Please note: I did say that we should also pray for the family and friends of the women in this position.
My wife, in a previous relationship, years before I was in the picture at 20 years old had a child, that daughter died at 5 months due to SIDS. The "father" her ex was very awful to her, and barely supported her during this tragic loss. He was sleeping with another young woman simultaneously and that other woman was also pregnant she later found out. This was 11 years ago. It was a tremendous loss for my wife and her family understandably. My wife is Navajo, and It was one of the first cases of SIDS on the Navajo Nation and because of that my wife lost many traditional friends and even relatives due to the superstitions surrounding death among traditional Navajos. We have been married 6 years. We have a beautiful 4 year old daughter and a beautiful 9 month old daughter. Before we had our first daughter my wife had a miscarriage. My wife had many complications and went into preterm labor with our first at 30 weeks. Praise be to God my wife made it to 36 weeks and our daughter was born at 5 lbs 11 oz. She didn't have to spend any time in NICU. She's now grown so much and very healthy. After we started trying again, my wife had two more miscarriages before we had our second daughter who was born right before the pandemic and the national shutdown. Needless to say, the value of life and the sensitivity of pregnancy is a very sensitive subject for us. Especially for my wife, having lost a daughter at only 20 years old, and the experiences of multiple miscarriages later in life. We are so happy to have 2 beautiful healthy daughters. When the abortion argument comes up, my wife starts getting very emotional. She knows first hand the value and sensitivity of children and of pregnancy and just can't fathom why anyone would willingly end terminate their pregnancy when it's such a precious and sacred thing. We are pro life by default, we will never support the willing termination of pregnancies having been through what we've been through.
God bless you and your wife. 🙏🏼
As a doctor, I've seen very healthy women with wanted and healthy babies die in childbirth. It is always, always a risk to the mother's life. As such, it is always her choice whether to see that risk through. In all situations, the point is the living and breathing existing human being who has the right to decide what they are willing to do with their bodies and the right to remove their consent if that changes. You cannot forcibly make an ALREADY DEAD person an organ donor against their prior wishes - even to save their own child who is already born. We may think that's a selfish decision, a tragic decision or a pointless waste but the point is it is no one else's right to choose. In the womb, a fetus is actively taking blood and nutrients from the mother. The vast majority of women suffer side effects, frequently permanent. Proper prenatal care is both actively expensive, massively restrictive and incredibly time consuming with prenatal visits increasing to weekly near term. Morally, these are not situations you can thrust onto someone else against their will. You chose to live your life based on your own moral principles, and should you break the law that is up to the government to punish as they see fit. If god has imbued that unborn being with a soul, god has a plan for that soul, and that plan may include never living outside the womb. We both agree the woman has a soul, god has a plan for her soul, and she was purposely given free will to chose the risks she takes. Where do you draw the line also with respect to removing a woman's free will in regards to her unwelcome tenant? Should she be forced to break a vow, for example, of not receiving blood transfusions as the jehova's witnesses do? Because the second a child is born, it gets transfusions if needed - against mom's will - because it is no longer part of her body. Should she be forced to stop taking life saving medications, because cancer therapy kills growing babies even easier than it kills tumors? Should she be forced to quit her job, if she has a job that makes pregnancy risky - like caring for the extremely ill and contagious, or volunteering in environmental clean up that exposes her to chemicals that are toxic for fetal growth? What if she is a professional athlete who is routinely at risk of abdominal injury? What if she was born with a heart condition that doesn't become apparent until her blood dramatically increases in volume, as this is a normal and unavoidable consequence of pregnancy? To say 'but it might be a soul' and ignore the impact on the other absolutely certain 'soul' is short sighted at best.
This sir, is a fantastic answer.
This is the view I hold.
Thank you for explaining that
When the fetus is aborted, it is a ____________. When the fetus is delivered by C-section, it is a _____________. There are certainly times when a mother must decide between her life/death and that of the fetus. Let's be honest, lack of money, interrupted education/career and having all the children wanted are the overwhelming reasons for abortion, not medical emergency. Medical emergency and convenience are not moral equivalents. Irresponsible solutions for irresponsible behaviors is the current choice of the majority.
@@Foxholt indeed, fantastic answer
I think the root of the problem is less about when life begins and more about how we as a society treat pregnant women. If women felt safer and supported in order to give birth to that child and either raise it or offer it for adoption, maybe less abortions would take place. There are a lot of financial, practical and sociological reasons that a woman would choose abortion. If we create a world that removes shame, fear and worry for women who not in a perfect place to give birth, we would give them a true choice and also improve the prospects for them and the child. They say it takes a village to raise a child. Maybe we need to revisit that idea as a society.
I beg to disagree, we do not live in a perfect society so why would you only be OK with motherhood if all the conditions are met? We have our children when God give them to us. You always hear things like " when I get a raise I should be able to afford a baby", "when I finish school I'll be able to have one"...pay for the house, the car, European vacation and the list goes on. I raised a daughter on my own since she was 1 1/2 yrs. old without any help whatsoever from either side of the family and I ended up loosing my house in the process. By your logic I should've aborted her then. My daughter always knew who her family was. What I'm trying to say is that God doesn't give us anything we can't handle, we just have to man up and do it.
I 100% agree the adoption process should be less bureaucratic and less expensive; however, I reject the idea that a child somehow has less value as a human because "society". We aren't bees. There are many private organizations willing to help.
95% of abortions would not happen if people did not do the act of making children when they did not want to have children, as in, abortions are predominantly caused by sexual misbehaviors. People are misaligned with their own nature, ergo, going against nature.
@@forestmanification Are you talking about responsible relationships here?
Yes! I agree. To an extent lol. Abortion should be illegal in the vast majority of circumstances, because ending the life of another human being is not something that should be normalized or accepted. But if abortion is illegal and yet women are still shamed for pregnancy, treated like baby factories, raped, unable to access financial help, unable to attend parenting classes etc. then how can we call that just? It would also lead to illegal abortions and we want those even less than legal abortions. Therefore the best thing to do is tear down as many “needs” for abortion as possible and also make it illegal.
When I had my second child, I was told by one of the medical that I could have the tests at my local day hospital to make sure that my baby wasn't disabled & if she was I would be offered an abortion. I told her that I didn't want the tests nor an abortion. She kept repeating about the tests & I repeated my statement. I didn't have the tests and my daughter was born as a healthy baby. Years later I began working with adults with learning difficulties and still am working in care. I value the people who I have the privilege to work with.
We found out that I'm a carrier for Wolf-Hirschhorn syndrome after our second child was born. After my vasectomy, we found out that we had a third on the way. By God's Grace, she was healthy. I have two miracle children: one who is fourteen and laughing and taking and running under the weight of a genetic condition where most children don't make your past two, and another who managed to be healthy despite my mixed up genetic code.
Glad you MADE THE CHOICE that was more in line with your belief system. But this proves that the popular belief among Christians that women are being forced into abortions is a LIE. You always had the choice, and that's what we pro-choice advocates have always argued for.
I wouldn't turn off the offer for a test. If the baby was disabled I would like to know and get ready for taking care of them. Glad your daughter was born healthy.
My story starts with my mom going in cause she felt something was wrong and the doctors did an ultrasound. They said my lungs werent developed enough and were recommending abortion. My mom beinf the conserative catholic is still is told the doc no matter what it costs to try to save me. So being that both worked at a military base then and dad was in the military and one of the best naval hospitals was nearby, the one that did an operation but was so said a checkup on president bush Sr at the exact same time I was born a few door down the hall, go figures. I was born via seasection, looking like a barbie with a big head (brat doll?) as a premie. They gave me steriod shots and kept me in a sterile incubator till my lungs developed enough to be released. My poor great aunt Eulia gor the wrong story and died without knowing mom and I lived. Man, Cellphones would have been useful in that case. 😩 Only issues I have are my family adult allergies, and some other medical issues but not related to my birth or development. I was actually quite normal as a kid. But not every kid has those advantages, thus more needs done to help advance medical so that aboetion should never become an option. Anne Catherine Emmrich stated in the book written of her life that most of those who were aborted would either been priests or amazing people that would have benefited society greatly. Not sure where I fall with that backgeound but not on the amazing person scope as of yet, but who knows what God has planned, although there are enough hints by family ancestory and some prophecies, great things but mayterdom as well are in the works, sigh. Brown and purple scapular are what I wear, why it was dad who wore the brown then red before he passed, why must I still get that bonus?😣'
Disability selective abortion is such a stain on our society and a horrible human rights violation. It breaks my heart
I just hope everyone is able to state their point of view without getting all heated up and stuff. I just hate when people get angry while debating, cause then there won't be a rational interesting debate, but one moved merely by passions, rather xd. Idk, just don't fight pls :(
ikr it’s sort of disappointing when i see people arguing instead of debating topics with respect.
Agree! Let's not feed the "cancel culture" monster! Let's have a reasonable, intelligent discourse, so that we can all arrive at the objective authentic truth.
I think people get especially angry over abortion because it is an incredibly important and painful issue. I also think trauma bonding plays a part in it as well. Many people have been deceived and have had abortions or love people who have. It is difficult to come to grips with the truth that it is the murder of a child. Your mind can automatically go into defense mode to protect itself from harsh truths. Even if you have just supported it as another person's "choice" when you see the truth of what you have suported it can be a shock. For post abortive women, who have a higher risk of suicide, alcohol and drug abuse and hospitalizations for mental illness, they may actually be fighting for their lives or sanity. This is also multigenerational and affects the entire family. Siblings of aborted children can really struggle with the loss of their sibling or siblings, with anger, fear and survivor's guilt. Abortion doesn't just harm the baby and the mother, it has far-reaching effects on the family, medical community and all of society.
How can you not get heated about literal murder of babies?
@@RonPaul42069😂 I do agree, most topics I could have a civil discussion about but abortion to me is one I cannot. There is no moral argument to say that abortion is correct without changing/manipulating the central issue of terminating life.
What are the books on your bookshelf? I'm curious about what books you've read/ are reading! Keep up the great videos!!
probably his textbooks from seminary
It is his references for him to teach us . Amen. Keep it up Friar Casey n take care.
I'm particularly interested in the 3 books in the upper left-hand side of the video... the black, red and blue one... Father?
Elias Baier Doesn’t have to tell you until you show me yours.I’ve been working longer than you’ve been alive.
Elias Baier are you hiding in your closet?
abortion debates generally devolve into the sentience argument: one side saying humans have intrinsic value, the other saying that rights are a social contract that one cannot agree to until a few months after birth
If Rights are not God given, natural, inherent, and inalienable, then they are not rights and are just priveleges arbitrarily handed out by those in power which can also be taken away. Most of the time the same people making the sentience argument are also asserting a right to bodily autonomy but not the most fundamental right to life which no other rights can exist without.
@@bseainguRights can only be God-given if you can demonstrate God's supposed existence and that he created these rights for us. 2000 years later still no one can demonstrate the first deal, much less the second. Rights, just like morality, are all social constructs. And before you go on to say "sO tHaT mEaNs rIgHtS dOn'T eXiSt, hUh?" you should look up what a social construct is. Words are social constructs and they very much are useful and needed for communication amongst humans. Rights, even within different Christian dominated nations throughout history, can differ significantly as is the case with the difference in Rights between US citizens and citizens to other different European countries. That's because social constructs are dependent on consensus of agreement and/or acknowledgement from people. We, as a species, have moved on from John Locke's ostesnible view of Human Rights being God-given to a Humanitarian/Secular position that encompasses all people no matter any creed, ethnicity, race, or religion.
We must respect human life
...from the womb to the tomb.
Jacob Nkandu for in God‘s own image man was made.
Yup. The entire list of people who suffer human indignities. Can you name all of them?
All life, all stages and races.😌
Is that why we amass weapons of mass destruction?
God choose to destroy entire Worlds, cities, killing every last man, woman (pregnant or not) and child.
Great video Fr. Casey. This is definitely a challenging issue. Let’s please pray for all women who experience an unwanted pregnancy. They need our love and compassion, not condemnation and judgment. There is really no abortion debate in this country anymore because both sides refuse to listen to each other. If you’re in this debate with somebody, please remember to listen empathetically, especially if the person you’re talking to has been in that situation.
What about after a child is born? Say six months down the road? Six years? Sixteen? What if the woman is trying to escape a dangerously abusive partner? The leading cause of death for pregnant women is being murdered by her partner.
They only care when it’s in a woman’s body. It's about control
As a nurse who loves bioethics, I know one simple truth: There is never a "right" choice in bioethics, and abortion is not an exception. I have considered all the points you mentioned and, still, I am a pro-choice because forbidding abortion only creates a disparity of opportunities: While rich women will always have the option to get an abortion in another country, poor women will be force either to carry the child or try to abort in a clandestine clinic. In the end, experience taught us that forbididng abortion does not decrease the number of aborted fetuses: it just increases the number of dead mothers.
It's been a wonder to listen someone defend a position against abortion calmly and rationally. Thanks for the video.
@Pro Semite so you are defending creating an unfair system in which rich women Will be able to receive a safe abortion while poor ones will due it with s higher risk? Even when, as statistics show, banning abortions does not reduce the number of abortions in society?
This argument is wrong. Making abortions illegal definitely limits them. So many mothers looking for any reason to not go through with it.
@@clroberts73 It limits them legally. However, women requiring one will go through illegal or alegal ways to get them, may it be a clandestine clinic or travelling abroad to get them. And, about that, there is plenty of evidence.
@@Volgrand Abortions that are therapeutic for the patient's health are not being limited. I'm assuming that's what you mean when you say "requiring."
If bioethics doesn’t have help you determine right and wrong, then it is inherently NOT ethics.
Also, this isn’t a matter of science, it’s a matter of what is the preborn human. If the preborn human is human, then killing them is homicide. Most concede that abortion IS homicide, but say it’s not murder because murder is illegal. This obviously gets us into circular logical territory. So it’s important to understand what murder is - why we consider some types of killing illegal and other types of killing justified.
For that, you have to go into where our laws are derived from. For Western murder statutes, the laws are derived from common law.
Under common law, murder is the direct and intentional killing of a human with malice aforethought and reckless disregard for their life.
Self defense, killing in war (under just war precepts of minimizing loss of life and being mission oriented rather than bloodthirsty) are not murder because they do not have malice aforethought (premeditation), and the intent isn’t to kill the offender, but rather to end the threat the offender is posing.
99.9% of abortions are done for reasons that boil down to convenience. They boil down to dehumanizing the fetal human in order to be able to justify their intentional homicide. Abortion, in 99.9% of cases, is the premeditated and intentional of a human without regard for their life, without attempt to try to reconcile the situation where both parties can live, it’s just “I’m not ready, I don’t want this, therefore I get it kill it because right now it’s dependent on me.”
No matter how rich, how poor, when, or where a woman contracts with someone to help her directly, intentionally, and willfully kill her child, it is still feticide, filicide, and common law murder… if bioethics says that sometimes common law murder is ok and therefore it should be legal - you might have taken a wrong turn in your logic.
Abortion is not a means to avoid pregnancy; it is a means to avoid MOTHERHOOD.
It isn't my body my choice; it's my LIFESTYLE my choice!
My BODY has to undergo the hardship of pregnancy and I can die because of it. It is a matter of bodily autonomy. Nobody is allowed to take anything from your body without your express permission, even to save their life. If a fetus is a person, then nobody is required to give up their own body to save it. Nobody is.
Would you tell a woman who just had a miscarriage that she simply lost a clump of cells or a parasite?
For the mothers, the two situations are very different. Please understand, I'm not trying to persuade anyone to change their personal morals, I'm just saying for a woman who's been raped, yes, a fetus can feel very much like a parasite, and for a woman who loses a fetus she wanted, it can be heartbreaking.
People are too busy thinking of the woman instead of a living organism inside of her
Sure some people think of the baby as a parasite,but the baby doesn’t know that and it did nothing wrong.The baby deserves to live as equally as we all do
People are blind and need to wake up and realize that they are committing murder
@Matt Blaise on a moral level, you're right. If abortion is murder, it doesn't matter how the woman feels. But Pockets's comment here * is * about what a woman feels.
"Life cannot be a subjective quality". That hit home for me
If life is not a subjective quality it means the life of a weed is the same as the life of a human being.
@@cnault3244 THANK YOU! As a biologist i consistently have to remind people that life is complex and the meaning of it varies from species to species and from one point in development of that species to another point. Yes, an embryo is a human life, but it doesn't have the same biological qualitative value as a fetus at 28 weeks. I know this fact it's hard for many to understand, but this is why abortion is a choice, if you have feelings for a nonviable fetus then you do not have to admit it, but don't vote to pass laws to prevent other women from being so
@@fallen4life080 The abortion issue is easy to solve: if you think abortion is wrong, you should not get an abortion.
@@cnault3244 EXACTLY! You said what I wanted to say in 2 sentences. But sometimes, these Pro-lifers need a little more science than they think they know.
There are no people for or against abortion, just primitive people still living in the 17th century who still believe in burning witches. They're backward, ignorant, primitive and barbaric. These elementary people want to prevent the earth, the world, from evolving. But abortion is part of modern life and abortion will always be there, unlike these uncultured, simple people who are doomed to disappear.
I am not expecting this to be much of a discussion, or a response from you specifically as this is already a semi-old video in the landscape of the internet. However, lately I've been watching a lot of your videos, mostly judgmentally to be fair but I watch them through to the end no less. I was born and raised Roman Catholic, studied in catholic church, my pastor and church priests were amazing. Father O'Connor and Msgr. O'Brien to this day are still people I look back on with almost exclusively fond memories, reverence and praise. They even helped me apply for seminary out of school, and taught me really most of what I know about this world. But, as happens I suppose, I started to see the world differently, I grew up and went on my own path. My dedication to the care of people, of wanting to be a good person, became something I could not resolve with the faith I had been raised in. This argument is one of those times, one of those untenable conflicts.
Your stance, an argument many have had, is that it's Life vs Death. All about the baby. All about this new life being created and the limitless potential it has. And yes that's, 100% a massive part of the argument. I don't support late term abortion outside of medically necessary or safe and sane recommendations by a doctor. I think that the loss of a pregnancy at that stage is a tragedy, as do I believe the overwhelming majority of people on every side of this argument.
Where we differ however, is that this argument needs to be more about the mother. It is *not* just a physical inconvenience. It is not as simple as "She should just carry the pregnancy to term and leave it up for adoption." We are talking about severe mental and emotional stress and trauma, we are talking about someone whose life is irrevocably changed regardless of the choices she makes. So rarely do I ever hear people talk about the serious mental health concerns like depression and anxiety that can come from carrying a pregnancy to term literally with the intention of giving it up for adoption while also managing their own life.
Then comes the discussion of "When Does Life Begin?" Your central argument. It's a good one, and it's not so simple. Maybe it's simple for you, being religious you believe there's some, god given magical nature to life. That human life itself is inherently valuable, and all the possibilities within it. But the reality is that an early term pregnancy isn't really any of those things. It's not a thinking, feeling human being, it's a part of another thinking feeling human being. Should we prioritize the "could be" possibilities over the actual, definite experience and existence of a thinking feeling person?
Even your first hypothetical, the idea that those who support abortion view things different based on whether the mother wanted the baby or not. I can't speak for everyone but, yeah I do, and it's not some gotcha contradiction. I would mourn with a friend who had a tragic accident that led to the loss of a pregnancy because I could sympathize with their desire. That they wanted this pregnancy to go well and come to term and to bring a child into the world. I would also feel great sadness for the second friend who willfully aborted their pregnancy in a safe and ethical way early on. For they would suffer the physical and emotional trauma and be dealing with hormones and an altered mindstate where they might feel worthless or guilty or even prone to self harm. In neither situation do I see this as equivocal to the loss of an actual newborn baby, but culturally the first parents wanted a baby so it is proper to say "I'm so sorry for your loss" while in the second case saying "Sorry you lost your baby" would only insult the woman and miss the point.
I mean no personal disrespect, you genuinely do seem like a nice and thoughtful person from the videos of yours I've watched. However this is the first video in your backlog that has sparked a bit of anger in me, because it's the same kind of thoughtless, strawman argument that has led to many of my actual associates and a few friends to suffer greatly. I hope that in time we can find ways to care for everyone better, and actually speak openly and respectfully even when we strongly disagree.
I will never again agree with the viewpoints of the Catholic Church, but I can respect that its members view the loss of life as tragic and even early abortions as the loss of life. I only hope that you can come to temper that feeling with concerns for the real actual mental, emotional and oft times physical condition of the matured human who has to go through all this.
Without dismissing your point of the mental and emotional problems I'd like to say that there's a time in our lives when we have to step up to the challenge. Sometimes we have to change a job that we like and is confortable for the one that's gonna help us take care of our family. If you do not want a Catholic answer I'll give you a different one: If been pregnant are all those things that you mentioned, then I'd say "Don't get pregnant" . There are plenty of ways to prevent a pregnancy ( I personally only agree with the ones approved by the Church) There's nothing I dislike more than hearing " I was drunk, I didn't know what I was doing" as the mother excuse for most everything.
I always tell my daughter not to loose her power of discernment in any situation.
I'd love to share a nice story. I have an aunt who once worked abroad in Saudi. During her time there, she once got drunk and some stranger decided to take advantage of her. A month later, she was pregnant. However, instead of deciding to cancel her pregnancy, she decided to raise the child because she believed that despite what happened, she will choose to raise the child to be a better person.
My second cousin is now around 7 years old, and she is such a beautiful angel and very obedient, but also very intelligent. I also would like to salute my aunt for being such a strong woman!
you’re aunt sounds awesome!
Good for her but we can’t force trauma on a women who didn’t ask for it.
@@victortrevino500We shouldn't force death onto a defenseless human being.
I love the line “she once got drunk and some stranger decided to take advantage of her” riiight lol. I’ll translate, lady gets her back blown out by a swarthy arab and regrets it so she says she was taken advantage of
@@mathildeyoung1823Every human has the right to bodily autonomy. An embryo isn’t an autonomous being.
I feel like that may be the wrong discussion. Wether the being inside the mother is alive or not is irrelevant. Of course abortion is terrible and one could even consider that life begins at conception and that the fetus suffers a lot through all the process, so it is tremendously cruel to do all that. The big thing in this situation is that abortions will happen regardless. It doesn't really matter if the baby is alive or will feel pain, or even if it is legal or not. Women who want to terminate their pregnancies will do it any way they can. What actually happens is that because abortions are made illegal in many parts of the world(such as my country) women do it unsafely (and unsanitarily) and end up killing not only the baby but themselves as well. So it becomes a public health issue, not an issue that should be discussed under the light of wether the baby's life is existent or not.
Great video by the way. I apologize in advance for any mistakes, english is not my first language.
This is an opinion which is usually disregarded in both left and right media I watch. “Back alley abortions” I believe are considered extremely rare. I don’t know either way though
I like your comment and this kind of debate. Issues like these are very complex indeed. If something is not good, say any destructive behaviour on self or others, but it will happen anyway, do we have to change our minds on how we see it and let it happen in a 'safer' way? The pro-life focus on the existence of 'life' not its quality. The pro-choice focus on the quality of life not the quantity. Each view has flaws, so states and churches will keep deciding on what is legal or not.
@@calebgrassi7494 I don't know how things are in the USA, but here in Brazil back alley abortions are extremely common. Even between upper class women. The difference would be that upper class women rarely die due to it because thay can afford to bribe a real doctor to go through the procedures. However, lower class women tend to die a lot because they often get no medical help at all, or do so in enviroments where there would be no support whatsoever.
Also, in here, media barely covers the issue. Left and Right
@@placidehabineza982 Great point. But I do believe that churches have no say in this matter. It should be treated as a public health issue and cannot be regarded as a religious matter.
People WILL drink and drive. People WILL take drugs. Let’s just not make any of these things illegal that uncontrolled humans WILL do.
It's not about when life begins. It's about bodily autonomy for women. Under NO other circumstance would anyone legally be able to force you to give up parts of your body, even to save someone else's life. Whether that's a person that already has been born or its a fetus in the womb, you have to CONSENT to give up your body for them, and that consent can be withdrawn. We give CORPSES more autonomy over their organs than we do pregnant women.
Sorry to say this...abstinence is always an option. Your bodily autonomy ends at the moment of conception.
You will never get an argument from me, Father. I'm older, and still would love to have more children even though I have adult children and grandchildren! God bless you. I guess we just need to keep praying? 🙏?
actually. it’s not a matter of life and death. it’s a matter of life or not existing at all. the fetus has no opinion on whether or not it becomes a baby. it doesn’t care. the woman does. the woman cares if she has to carry her rapist’s child, she cares if she has to raise a child she cannot afford, she cares if she had no access to birth control and got pregnant by complete chance and has no intention of having children, she cares if she gives the child up for adoption and they end up in the foster care system where they will have a very low chance of finding a family and having a good life. being pro choice doesn’t mean your choice has to be abortion. pro choice means every woman gets to decide what she wants to do with her own body and her own life. fetuses do not care that they have no choice because they are about as alive as an amoeba.
Good grief! How much does it take for pro choice people to understand that IT’S NOT YOUR BODY! The moment conception happened a new life began, your not gestating a rock, you’re gestating a human being who has the right to live just like you, life is not relative to any women’s convenience. Ending the life of another human being is not a right.
Is it okay to kill someone in coma then? They’re basically a fetus.
@@mariaii2917 so.. a wife that decides to take her husband in a vegetative state off life support, is a murderer?
I feel like people would not be so cheeky on defending aborption, had their parents considered murdering their unborn child...
@@brandondabreo4632 yes
God bless ur work man!
“Every mother is like Moses. She does not enter the promised land. She prepares a world she will not see.”
-- Pope Paul VI
-- Pope Paul VI
we should reflect on these words from Paul VI, do all we can to ensure a justice and fair society where all can live in peace and charity, and dignity, remembering that both mother and the child in the womb deserve our protection and understanding.
for the sin of Abortion Lord forgive us.
Thank you for sharing this quote! God bless
Amen
i believe its the womans choice , and as a survivor of heavey bullying after 5 miscarriages ( aka spotanoues abortion) i understand deeply for women who miscarriage or abort ..
But why? Why do you think a woman has the right to kill a baby?
@@roscianyt because it's her goddamn body and a fetus is not a baby.
@@ferrreira Can she walk around town naked? No. Can she take illegal drugs that kill her mind? No. Can she sell her organs? No. So, if your reason is that she can do anything she wants to her body; I think I just proved you wrong. And, a fetus (Latin for offspring) is by definition "a developing human from usually two months after conception to birth." Left alone a fetus will grow into a human being. Why? Because it's a human being.
@@roscianyt you know that it's a question of caring for women's lives, right? Women who want to have an abortion WILL DO IT, regardless of what some delusional religious zealot wants, in their feeble mind. You dream of controlling people but you can't. It's a matter of saving women's lives, letting them have an abortion safely and legally. But you don't care at all about women. You religious paranoids never do.
@@ferrreira I think you don't really understant. We religious zealots care for BOTH women and babies (or fetuses, terminology doesn't really matter here). Abortion is tragedy of BOTH women and babies. There is an actual chance that abortion will affect woman's body or mind in a negative way.
You are right that banning abortions won't solve anything, those who want it, will get it done, even with the risk of non-profesional intervention.
Yet the fetus is not part of woman's body, it is a living being. Mother AND society should act accordingly.
If mother wants an abortion, it is mostly fault of society.
*Sorry for bad english*
I’m a non religious person but I find your videos insightful and interesting. I frame the argument the same way you do even being an agnostic libertarian. I like the things you have to say and you remove much of the stigma around Catholicism. Thanks for being a good dude.
jesus loves you
You can judge others for not sharing the same beliefs as you and yet you do nothing to stop the child molestation in your own church. Start dealing with your own problems before judging others on theirs. Life begins when the mother chooses wether or not to accept that life. You can lay on the floor and vow to your god. That doesn't make you any closer to him than the rest of us. If these women are sinning, let god judge them when the time comes, you have no right to do his job for him.
This is so eloquently stated , as a Muslim I totally agree , thank you for spreading the message of the importance of the human life !
Abrahamist must work together to combat materialism
As a Christian, I appreciate your comment and your contribution. I wish you the best in all you do.
Same ❤️
Alli Baba is great !
Mohammed climbed on top of his 9 year old wife. Ouch!
The higher order always includes the lower. Life begins at conception. Great video! Thanks.
As someone who has been in the situation where I was sitting in a doctors office talking about what my options were if an act that I did not consent to resulted in pregnancy. While I was lucky and I never had to make that choice, I was glad that there were options that didn't include carrying a physical reminder of a monster as well as the psychological scars for 9 months. If that had been my only option and I had been in that position I wouldn't be here today. I think the main problem with this argument is that often both sides present it as a black or white issue when it's not. If a woman wants a baby but finds out that carrying that child to term will kill her, at what point does her life matter more than the child's? Why condemn her for making one of the worst decisions of her life because she doesn't want to die. If someone forces themselves on a woman and that results in pregnancy, why is there no grace for her? Why must she destroy herself for the sake of a baby she wanted no part in making? What about the woman who finds out that the baby that she's been so excited about isn't developing properly, that there is no viable baby just a clump of cells, but it's still called an abortion, she still has to go through the steps.
If you're going to say that all abortion is wrong, keep in mind that what is commonly known as miscarriage is also called a spontaneous abortion. Someone can do all the right things and their body can still reject a pregnancy.
At the end of the day, if you're pro-life all I would ask is that you make sure you're not just pro-birth but also pro-support for low income or single parents, pro-life after birth.
A woman feeling bad about something is not an excuse to kill someone.
@@TechnoLion1 at what point in my comment did I say it was? I mentioned that if my doctor hadn't taken the time to go through all my legal options if that monster had gotten me pregnant I would have killed myself. At that point in my life there was no other viable option - if a baby had existed one of us was dying. I was lucky, there was never a baby. I didn't have to make that decision, but I knew what it was going to be.
Our society constantly tells women that they must give up themselves for their children; why should this needlessly include their lives? Is that not the same problem? Killing someone to save someone else who may not survive anyway?
In each of the scenarios I used, I know someone who went through it. One of them was so viciously berated by their church they left the faith entirely - even though there was no baby, just a tumor.
And again, a miscarriage is still an abortion. Over 90% of pregnancies naturally abort before they're detectable. Are these women also guilty of murder?
@@turtlette Someone threatening to kill themselfs doesnt make it ok to kill a child. Someone who is suicidal should be helped through tough times (such as yourself) but in the end its that person who makes the decision to take their life or not. Unborn dont get that choice. A miscarriage (unless its induced on purpose) is not the womans fault. I dont see how you can compare that to an abortion.
@@TechnoLion1 @Techno Lion Now we're back to the question of if the life of the baby matters more than the life of the mother. Why should my continued existence matter less than the continued existence of someone who functionally doesn't exist yet? Why is it the life of an unborn baby is more important than the life of the woman it cannot exist without? Why is there no grace given to women who become pregnant through violence? If the answer is "because that pregnancy wouldn't exist if not for the will of G-d" then your god is cruel beyond fathoming.
I'm simply calling a miscarriage what it is - a spontaneous abortion. An abortion is simply the termination of a pregnancy regardless of how that termination comes about.
You also completely ignored my original question; where in my original comment do I say that someone "feeling bad" excuses murder?
@@turtlette Okey lets try to structure this a bit better:
1: *Why is the life of the baby more important than the mother?*
It is not and on one has said so either. The reason suicide and murder arent comparable as you try to make them out to be, is because one is forced upon another and one is the choice an individual makes. Again, a mother saying "I will mill myself if I dont get an abortion" is HER choice an no one elses. Simply not comparable.
2: *Abortion = Miscarriage*
I get what you are saying here and this feels more like a semantic thing. Unless you think its morally equal to intentionally kill a fetus as it is to unintentionally kill one I dont think there is a disagreement here.
3: *Feeling bad*
That was in refrence to you/people you knew saying you would commit suicide if you had to go through with the pregnancy. As stated in 1 someone feeling suicidal doesnt give them an excuse to determine someone elses life.
Edit: I forgot to mention that I agree with you that abortion is a final solution if the mother will die from giving birth. Im basically talking about the "cut the rope" scenario where either both people will die or 1 will survive. That would be the only time that abortion should be considered as an option.
I had just read book about this and then RUclips recommended a this video to me. The algorithm is blessed!
So stupid, the first couple wanted the baby, but the embryo is not a baby yet, they want what the embryo wlll become.
Please Father here in Brazil we were having a huge this discussion involving a 10 year old girl, victim of sexual violence, that was pregnant, but the government authorized the abortion due to the high risk for her life on this pregnancy due to her little age. Although, some fanatics started to call her assasin, in front of the hospital, but she is just a little girl.
i disagree with the people who went to the hospital just to say bad things about the girl and the doctors. but (i'm completely aware she's just too young to understand what was actually going on, i mean, when I was 10 i didn't even know what abortion was), the abortion per se was definitely wrong :( hope Fr. Casey can explain it better in this video! God bless u.
She's only 10, she didn't choose it and its life threatening!
Can people get back to humanity
A few important details must be said:
- This 10 year old girl was being raped since she was six. By her uncle.
- The pregnancy had 23 weeks. The baby had chances to live with optimal intensive care if the pregnancy was immediately terminated. Even if the pressure to end the pregnancy prevailed, this baby could have been saved by modern medicine.
- There were many people wanting to adopt the baby (a baby girl).
I strongly agree with you that the pro-life people here in Brazil used the wrong approach. Condemning the 10 year old mother by a decision she was not mature enough to make was not productive. Releasing her ID, like a famous former feminist and now, supposedly, a pro-life activist did, was inadequate.
I’m used to debate abortion in liberal medical circles. And the only way I noticed pro-choice people rethinking their stances was by logical and compassionate arguments. The pro-life groups used the same tactics that leftist radicals use. It lacks Christ in them.
I would really like this situation being discussed. I think Father Casey’s clear thinking would help to bring light to a horrible situation that had an even worse ending. And I hope this 10 year old girl is taken care of. She will suffer with the memories of the abuses and now with the abortion.
Please, pray for this young girl and her unborn child.
The govt should have protected her identity
Wonderful video - keep up the good work Fr Casey.
I can't say if I am for abortions or against them, but I have been in the situation where I had to choose on medical grounds. It wasn't a easy choice, but I chose to carry my pregnancy to the end and hope for at least one day with my child. I greived my childs loss before it was even born. The reason I chose not to was because I wasn't meant to be a mum and the baby had serious complications. I had to weigh this all up before I chose the path to walk. In 24 years I have almost lost her 4 times. Better than the little bit I was hoping for
Thanks be to God. May He bless and assist you.
Thank you Fr Casey for this video! I admire your courage to speak up, God bless you abundantly. Anu Jose
2:43 I have never heard a happily pregnant woman refer to her unborn baby as "my clump of cells."
My friend, who is a doctor, did just that. She actually told me how many cells it was composed of at any given time. It was fascinating. I love kids, but I love women’s autonomy more.
I love asking the difference between everyone. We are all just clumps of cells. what makes a smaller group of cells different than a larger group of cells? Or what makes a clump of cells that are human with unique DNA not alive while a single celled bacteria on mars is life?
@@Aidan-zc8wx - the amount of cells
- a central nervous system
- just because something is “alive” doesn’t mean we regard it as sacred. A carrot is alive.
@@MAMorelli Interesting. I love children more than my own selfish comforts or conveniences.
@@dutchboyslim5951 You think bodily autonomy is synonymous with “selfish comforts and convenience”? Should you be forced to give one of your kidneys to a child with kidney failure, even your own child? Should you be forced to give blood to a child? Why should anyone be forced to give up their body to carry a fetus to term if they don’t want to? Why don’t you have to?
Why wouldn’t we try to figure out to help the kids that are already ALIVE but are starving to death or are stuck in a war zone watching their families be murdered right in front of them? Couldn’t we all at least agree that there are more important matters that are already going on with children that need to be addressed before arguing about something that should be left up to god himself come judgment day for those who do chose to get an abortion..? I really don’t understand why this is your concern at all.
1. the Catholic Church is the largest charity provider in the world they hel all ready alive children
2. he's a Catholic priest the church teaches that an unborn child is as valuable as an born one and abortion is murder so that's why he worry's about it
Pray for our sisters and brothers in Poland.
In your video, you said that "there is no objective concrete sense of when life begins". This is precisely why the decision to abort or not abort should be left to pregnant women.
2 way street though. Would if the man wants the child, then what? His DNA his choice!!! If he wanted her to get an abortion and she didn't then it's her body her choice but he's subjected to child support for 18 years. Women and men use abortion and treat it like it's an STD...
Fr, thank you for putting out this video. Not an easy subject to tackle.
This is a very interesting way to look at the perspectives.
I worked in dcfs and I saw how little the government will actually do to fully provide for children or help a struggling mother. So I will always grieve a miscarriage and understand a womens right to choose. Its not my buissness besides to give love and support in both situations. So I do like your grace in this video because you aren't judging just questioning.
Quite agree with what you have said. Being a catholic I was asked to hold someone’s hand while she had an abortion. I wondered what Jesus would do. So I let her talk, she like many people I’ve since met have medical complications meaning they would not be able to carry a child to term or they themselves could die. Not all women have a choice. Ive also found many women feel very deeply ashamed for the rest of their lives and regret their actions. By mearly comparing two scenarios and setting up parallels there are assumptions made which I find very close to making a value judgement on someone else’s sinfulness ....something I feel I really can’t do, so while I don’t approve of abortion, I fundamentally feel that judgement on an individual’s actions is not ours to make. We will never fully understand what a person in such a situation is truly feeling until we listen without judgement.
This is a failing of both society and the church. We cannot ask the mother to carry the child and then not support them both. I really dislike when I hear "personal responsibility and accountability" thrown around after they give birth rather than aborting it. Like no duh, but how's that working for your argument for no abortions?
If you’re not mentally or physically ready to sustain yourself during a pregnancy or have a child then I think the you should have the right.
This was something I was really undecided on. Thank you for your perspective.
Amazing Father Casey! ❤️❤️ You've moved us with your deep hearted message. I pray that people realize the evangelical truth and the true meaning of life. ❤️❤️
It’s always a woman’s choice.
It’s a bigger sin to bring an unwanted life into this world to be neglected and abused. That’s the biggest sin of them all.
And for the folks who say “just give it for adoption then!” Just remember that many foster homes and orphanages abuse children and treat them poorly. Orphan/adopted children tend to be more abused than natural children, and that should be in people’s consciences before criticizing and judging a woman for choosing to have an abortion.
Also, some women have underlying health issues and a pregnancy could kill them, so the woman has no choice but to terminate the pregnancy. So, in this case, is her life less important at this point? I don’t think so!
Just live and let live..take care of yourself the best you can so these situations don’t happen, and if they do, then just deal with them in the best and most logical way possible. ✌️☮️🙏✨
I'm sorry but could you please point me to where in the Bible says " Just live and let live" ? You can't do evil to prevent evil. You can't solve the orphanage problem by killing the children, besides, talking about abortion does not mean criticizing or judging anyone. A mother's health problems is a very small percentage and I don't think is worth talking unless we agree on the main issue. Please do not take my comments as a personal attack.
And many, family included, have loving adopted family's, but I guess they don't matter.
@@Vj-go7sg the ratio of “happy loving adoptive” families is way smaller than the ratio of orphaned children who get tossed or passed from foster home to foster home, and/or stay in orphanages till they turn 18.
Of course those families that adopt children and are good to them matter, and I commend them for adopting children, but still, the number of non adopted children surpasses the number of adopted ones.
If you worked with social workers you could see this clearly. Statistics don’t lie.
But as usual, indoctrinated humans prefer bring children into this world to suffer instead of avoiding the maximum suffering of an innocent life. Quite the dichotomy and cognitive dissonance, specially coming from folks who claim to be “merciful” and “kind” or “Christ like.”😐😑🙄
I think the concern about live and let live is that one’s actions directly affect another human’s ability to partake in life
We all grieve when natural disasters strike and cause death, we all grieve when murder happens. Why wouldn’t we do the same when an innocent human could not reach the stage of being born
Abortion, when birth does not threaten the life of the mother, is always the end result of a chain of unjust actions.
In my opinion, you can't be pro life without working to address the issues that led to the woman being in a position that influenced her to make that choice.
YES YES YES! You can’t be pro life while not caring to stop the things that cause both legal and illegal abortion! Just because making abortion illegal means less abortions will happen doesn’t mean all of them will stop. Some illegal abortions will continue and every abortion is one too many. If we don’t tackle the root of the problem, we are barely tackling anything. Just making something illegal is the tip of the iceberg. But I do know tons of pro lifers who feel the same way and support pregnancy centres who help women in need, and that’s amazing. It needs to happen on a government level too!
Great video! Also, you and Father Mike from Ascension Presents definitely need to have a beard-off this November.
ok I have a genuine question. what about the law in the USA that states that you can't be forced to provide medical assistance (blood, kidney, etc) to another person? in the USA you have to choose to help that person. even if you are fully responsible for the person's situation or even if you're the only match close enough to save them. so why is it different for a fetus?
We need blunt answers like this every now and again.
You have a gift from God to talk about difficult things in a way everybody can understand you. No wonder you are looking to hire someone for your videos. I take it your superiors are satisfied with you? May God bless you and give you the wisdom to choose right subjects and bring the arguments of our fathers of the Church to light.
In a way, it’s even disturbing to see people say that murder is a subjective thing
That's because people view killing and murder as the same. Don't look at it like it's "disturbing". Try viewing it as an educational issue and use the opportunity to teach.
@@Karen-pk3uv killing is only justified when your life is threatened, or someone else's life is threatened.
@@degenerate6109 correct. But it is not my place to determine what is or isn't a threat to another person's life or well-being. Carrying a baby to term and delivering it are still two of the most dangerous things a woman can do. I can't stand it when people refer to abortion as murder, because murder requires malicious intent. Both the Bible and the Law both make a clear distinction between murder and defense. A woman feeling like the only way she can defend herself and/or her family is if she has an abortion is tragic and a societal failure. Don't put women into positions where they have to kill to defend themselves and then berate them for making that choice.
@@Karen-pk3uv In cases where the pregnancy would kill the woman. An abortion, is moral since it's one life or the other. If a woman doesn't want to deal with the issues of having a pregnancy, they should be chaste until they are at a point in their life where they can have a child.
@@Karen-pk3uv someone shouldn't have to die for another's poor decision. I hate to be as brutal as I am, but this quite literally is a matter of life and death. So I don't pull punches.
Pro choice isn’t about my opinion of her pregnancy. It’s her opinion.
Opinions become obsolete in front of the truth of the sanctity of life.
@@RodDop-us9ex legally, no.
@@kimc555 but morally, yes. Also talking about opinions. Babies have been proven to start at conception, that is scientific fact, look it up. So what about the babies opinion?
@@Jwaukechon hiw sad we have to talk about innocent babies. If this were a puppy or kitten, they would be saved.
I think its not so clear cut. There is the right of the woman to choose on the one side and the right of the society to uphold the sancticity of life because its true we are talking about two lives here not one. I still firmly stand with the womans right to choose but society has the right to present the women with alternatives through a non threatening discussion with a professional, a doctor psychologist or social worker. Society has the right to convince the woman by promising and providing support in the form of housing, welfare and healthcare. They can suggest adoption. If we want the baby to be born we have to give the mother the chance to choose life instead of just condeming her to a life of misery by forcing her to have the baby without supporting her.
Doesn’t matter if it’s a baby or not no one can use your body against your will. Not worth or not to others only the one who is sustaining the life can decide. Makes perfect sense.
And no one can _take_ their life against _their_ will. (Keep your forceps off my biceps! Don't dismember me.)
South of Lone Rock Point, where North Avenue runs high above the eastern shore of Lake Champlain, beyond the winding paths that meander through the cemetery, behind the heavy doors of the large redbrick building, Sally was back in the orphanage. Probably not yet 6 years old, she was being marched toward the sewing room, compelled by a furious nun.
Sally had been caught running and giggling in the dormitory. The nun, Sister Jane of the Rosary, was known for her constant companion: a thick razor strap that the girls called “the green pill,” bitter medicine for any child who came near it.
Sister Jane of the Rosary took Sally to the little bedroom off the sewing room and made her lie facedown, dress yanked up, panties pulled down. Then the nun sent in Eva, a seamstress, who along with another lay employee, Irene, was one of the only two people that Sally felt safe with.
Eva came into the little room, looked at Sally - face down, dress up, defenseless - and stood frozen for a few long moments. The strap lay beside her on the bed. Then she left. Irene came in next, but she couldn’t do anything, either. Even Sister Jane of the Rosary, usually so quick to punish, came in but did nothing.
At last Sally heard Sister James Mary announce that she had “no problem” performing the task. Entering the room, she brought the strap down hard on Sally, from the back of her neck all the way down to her ankles. Once, twice. Ten times. Too many times to count.
Sally recoiled with each downstroke, but she tried her best to hold back the tears. The silence only enraged Sister James Mary, who kept hitting her. On and on, the blows kept coming. “You will cry!” the nun insisted.
Eventually Sally did. She began to weep.
Sally couldn’t twist around far enough to see the damage. But when Irene looked, she gasped.
“How many times do we have to tell you?” Sister Jane of the Rosary demanded from above. “If you cry, you cry alone. If you smile, the whole world smiles with you.”
Irene brought Sally across the long hallway, down the marble stairs, past the foyer, and into the office of the mother superior herself. Irene showed her Sally’s wounds. It wasn’t right to do that to a little girl.
Mother Superior replied that Sally was going to end up in reform school anyway.
The next time Sally was sent to Irene and Eva for a beating, Irene said she would deal with the child herself.
Irene hit her, but only on her bottom. Sally was so overwhelmed with gratitude that the next day, she told Irene that she loved her
The Catholic Church and any members of it should be ashamed of it self they know about the horror they inflicted and ignored it and encouraged it
The beginning of life is one of the few topics where I actually side with Rabbinic Judaism over any particular Christian view: life begins at first breath and a fetus is indeed something less than a human. This does not mean "elective abortion" is morally neutral (far from it), but it does mean that medically necessary abortions are not immoral and indeed maybe the only moral choice if the woman's life is in danger. After all, if the woman dies, the fetus will die anyway so how is it proper to attempt to continue a pregnancy if doing so will kill the pregnant woman?
Hi Seth,
You make a really good point: preserving the health of a mother is important. I think, though, that it is critical to distinguish between the direct and intentional ending of a life (e.g. abortion) and facilitating an operation which saves the life of the mother even if it does not preserve the fetus' life.
If fetuses have human rights, the first option is a violation of their right to life, but the second option is permissible since no one directly intends the death of the fetus.
If you have a moment, check out the Dublin Declaration. Over a thousand Irish healthcare professionals signed a document saying that it was never medically necessary to intentionally end the life of a fetus to preserve the mother's life.
I am antiabortion...I am also a gardener...when you plant a fruit tree, all the fruit will fall off for the first 5 years bcuz the tree is too young. If one or two make it, they will be inedible. The tree is created by God. Do you really think a 14 yr old can raise a child successfully on her own?
Thanks for this episode. You are very much right.
Amen Father! I will be praying for you! Keep preserving thru and lets get to Heaven!
Life begins at first breath - not before
According to buddies logic all life is sacred. Going straight to hell because there aint no way you never killed anything 😂
But who’s taking care of the child?
That’s what I think. Take away abortion and you get unwanted children who will only be neglected and forgotten. No child deserves that
No one deserves injustice or poverty. Do we terminate, then, those afflicted by them or at risk of suffering?
@@bryannapitsis4245 who are you to predestine a life, a life made for Hesven
@@johnnylightning1967 I did it once and I’ll do it again if necessary 🤷♀️
@@bryannapitsis4245 “I knew you before I formed you in the womb.” Jeremiah 1:5
This is always good to get things straight, and that reinforced me into considering babies from birth only.
I think that “life starts at your first breath” is the base of our laws.
Blessings from 🇦🇪( UAE)
Blessings . 🌷🌷🌷
Always interesting you hear another point of view. Personally, my reactions to both of those hypothetical situations are the same: sympathy for the parent(s) involved, not for an unthinking, unfeeling foetus.
Speaking as someone who was an unwanted child: abortion is always less cruel than having a child that you have no intention to love.
Also, it occurs to me that there would be fewer abortions across the world if the church would use its influential position to promote contraception; worth considering, no?
you're overlooking those who abort also includes many using contraception
It´s funny how you make it sound like the "sympathy for the parents" is only a subjective feeling when your comment about an "unthinking" or an "unfeeling" fetus is equal to it been dead is also your subjective feeling about it. Since science, specialy the work of the geneticist Dr. Jerome Lejeune, has proven that a human life does begin at the moment the sperm-egg fusion occurs, wich is the moment that the unique DNA of that human been is created, and it been different to the DNA of its father or mother´s is what make that fetus a human been since DNA is what makes us all different people, unique beens among us. And at least you can prove that Dr. Jerome´s work is wrong, I will have to dissaprove with you.
And about your second opinion about "abortion been less cruel to a child with bad parents", I have to dissagree with that opinion too since you are robing all oportunity that child would have in his life to overcome and grow up better than his parents. In fact, you will be stealing that person its oportunity to experience live itself.
@@tinaa3459your logic has no inherent value.
@@tinaa3459 Yes, but the catholic church consistently opposes birth control usage. That should change, for the sake of society and reducing our carbon footprint.
Thank you, Father for speaking on this difficult subject and not conveniently backing away from it.
He did start off with lies though
@@jamesolelo4406 Which ones?
@@kuba2ve well there were many. He had no argument since his side is the one with flaws. Maybe when he understands what body autonomy and integrity are then he'll be able to actually discuss this topic. But so far he has shown he has a far way to go and cannot discuss this topic in good faith so he doesn't have a leg to stand on
@@jamesolelo4406 Oh, body autonomy??? Like the human being that is developing inside someone is not worth anything and can be discarded? Oh, yes, we have a far way to go... is that your argument?
@@kuba2ve no because you just exemplified you don't understand the term. Remember you have to be autonomous to have body autonomy. It's not hard to understand human rights
I have had for a semester at my college a class about adoption. One about the many topics was the sexual abuse. I am curious what you, Father Casey and the ones watching this video think about: if because a sexual abuse the woman become pregnant which scenarios are the most considerables?
Katalin: has the nature of the being changed? Logically, the manner of the conception does not change the nature of the result.
Yours is a pragmatic argument -- not wrong but different. And, it may well be that the human condition cannot always accept a logical argument.
We have been debating over classes and seminars the effects of different traumas. The pregnancy as a consequence of sexual abuse is a relevant topic I can not come up with an answer/ 100% opinion cause it has so many factors and it is so multidimensional.
First, it is cool that there is a class about adoption. Would like to see the course materials for that.
Second, for full disclosure I am adopted and feel that it is under-represented as an option in general society, but also in my personal experience in both high school and college.
Next, before we talk about abuse we need to determine what we are talking about. If the entity in the womb is a living thing that is uniquely separate from the mother than it is scientifically a human being at a certain stage of life (embryo, fetus, child, adolescent, adult, etc) I personally lean towards universal human rights and feel that humans should have the same rights no matter their stage in life. Elderly should not have less rights than a young adult and vice versa.
If we have a born human and it is between an abusive environment and an environment (where they are alive) free from such evil than the choice is clearly the latter. However if a 2 year old is in an abusive situation we do not solve the abuse by punishing the child, let alone solve the abuse by killing the child and much less so if it is only possible that the child may be abused.
Simply put above, if the choice is between not living or abuse than one would choose life.
That said, abuse is not limited to adoptive parents, this is a societal problem that should be addressed by society at large, the solution is working through that, not by abortion.
Lastly, while I do not have any data I would imagine that there is a difference between those adopted through foster care, those adopted by family members, and those adopted as children. If a statistic states that abuse is common in adoption I would want to understand what the study was looking at, and what if any situation is or may be effecting the numbers.
Conclusion: Abuse is a serious thing, but killing a potential victim is not the correct or just solution in any case. If the entity in the womb is human than that human has rights, life is eventually the first right as others are not possible without it, and it would thus follow that the human before birth would also have a right to life.
People that froth at the mouth about a woman's rights are in many ways identical to the fools that think a bazooka is plausible self defense & not only a right but the standard for home defense.
This is great!! Good work!
I want everyone who makes a women feel terrible to abort a child ,
I want them to experience what an unwanted child has to go through ,
the abuse at foster homes, beaten up, no food , and rejected , and no home to go .
Repeated for 18 years , only then they’re aloud to have an opinion,
Allowed to have an opinion? Alas, there goes the way of the world today. We ALL have opinions. In some we likely would agree, and in some obviously we may differ. Neither of us has an opinion more ‘right’ or ‘worthy of being considered’. Because we are all flawed and will approach a question in our flawed human ways. This, I believe, is why we are all responsible for the conclusions we draw. Just as you’ve outlined several horrible things we all should consider when contemplating this question, there are just as many wonderful things could be outlined. And countless more things both horrible and wonderful as well. The answer, in my view, won’t come from any single one of them. The question is between us individually & communally, and God.
Sincerely and truly, I hope you read/hear these words in the way I intend them. Not with sarcasm or dismissal, but with concern, hope, and love.
First of all, why do you assume that someone else makes a woman feel terrible for aborting her child? If you have ever miscarried or aborted a child you would know that you lost a child. It is incredibly painful for most if not all women. If you did not do it intentionally you can still suffer from guilt, depression and anxiety, not knowing what went wrong. If you do it intentionally, guilt, anxiety, depression and self-hatred can be even greater. The majority of women also report coercion to abort a child and it some cases force or threat of fatal force might be involved. Did you know that homicide is now the second leading cause of maternal death in the US and is or recently has been the leading cause of death in some states? Children are not objects to be discarded when they are "unwanted" and do you think that treating them as such improves the lives of children who are not aborted? Did you know that there is a massive study of maternal medical records on the NIH Library of Medicine involving millions of women, including all women of childbearing age over decades in one nation, that shows that a single abortion significantly increases the risk of death for women and especially from suicide or violence? Did you know that it showed that it significantly increases in the the risk of alcohol and drug abuse and hospitalization for mental illness? A dose effect was also observed with risk increasing after each abortion. I know that millions are spent yearly trying to normalize abortion, but if it was something normal, would it be necessary to do this? It has been legal almost 50 years. If it was such a great and normal thing for women to do, why would it have to be coerced or constantly promoted as good and normal? If you do some research, you will also see that abortion, which is, at the least, fatal child abuse, has failed to decrease child abuse and that child abuse in all forms has actually been increasing for decades. You will also find a study that shows that a single abortion increases the risk that a woman will abuse other children in her care or allow them to be abused. It is part if the cycle of abuse. Women and children deserve better than abortion and your scenario is more likely because of abortion. You can't stop child abuse by promoting the fatal abuse of children before birth.
This is not a real argument its targeted against a human. It's like saying only people who were in concentration camps or experienced apartheid and police brutally can have an opinion about racism.
Did you know that "planned" or "wanted" children have a higher risk of being abandoned or abused? Really think about it for a minute. A planned or wanted child has already been objectified. The child, before they are even conceived, is being expected to meet some need or expectation of the adult. If and when the planned or wanted child doesn't fit the plan or fulfill the needs or wants of the "parent" they are far more likely to be neglected, rejected, discarded, or mentally, emotionally or physically abused. Adoption waiting lists are private, so that 32 couples are waiting to adopt every infant offered for adoption in the US, is only an estimate, but people in the US have been adopting outside of the country for decades. The IVF, ART and fertility industries are booming. The exploitation of young vulnerable women for egg harvesting and commercial surrogacy has skyrocketed, as has the traffficking of children.
I am the unwanted child and I am pro life.Being in foster care is much better than being dead.
I am against abort in all singular cases, although I am pro the existance of legalized abortion due to the psychological trauma a very small subset of women would go through if denied the option due to the feelings of not being in control of their own bodies and having to face public shame. If the alternative is them having a manic episode, punching themselves until they have internal bleeding and dying together with baby, I'd rather give them the option to safely perform an early abortion. Although in any and all cases I would try to get them to realize that the problem is with the narrative around becoming pregnant, you can make a mistake and break an arm and you lose the right to move your arm for a while, you get pregnant and you need to grow a stomach for a while, the first trimester you'd hardly notice it, 6 more months and you can give it up for adoption, allowing a couple who can't have children to have a child, you are bringing joy into this world, you are not abandoning anyone but you will need to go on a diet and perhaps end up with a nasty scar.
I broke my arm, the recovery didn't go well and I had to stay with a cast for three months and face an operation that left me with way bigger scars than cesarean birth and sleepless and in excruciating pain for three days and three nights. I have limited motion in my right arm, lost any chance at a career in sports, had to go on a diet and I have a constant pain in my back due to the prolonged effects wearing a cast for 3 months had on posture. It's just life, you make a mistake and you pay a price, my mistake was falling. If my mistake ended up with a kid for a couple who would give way more than their right arm to have a chance to raise one, I'd consider it a steal.
I do not blame the women who take an abortion. I blame people who go about shaming people who give their kids up for adoption and bigots who shame girls who get pregnant early and out of wedlock. If a life was taken, its blood isn't on the mother who went to the abortion clinic, the politician who allowed it or the doctor who performed it. The fault stands entirely on the people who shamed her for getting pregnant, who looked at her weirdly and whispered when they thought no one was listening if not of her, of her friend who did not end up aborting. What sickens me most is that those that are most staunchly pro-life have a vested interest in doing so because they are the ones who are getting their hands dirty with blood if the child doesn't come to life, casting a stone of rubber against a bar of metal stuck in a pond of water without letting the stone hit the water and hiding the hand while blaming the bar of metal for producing ripples because their stone didn't touch the water. They should be begging not to kill the fetus as they prostrate in forgiveness because they know that if a murder is taking place, it's placed squarely on them. Forgiveness would be not going through with the abortion but how can they be forgiven when they haven't repented and demand forgiveness instead of asking it with humility?
Why does a woman abort? Because society made it so that what would be a pretty big but ultimately overcomeable incovenience turned into a life and death situation. Who is to blame if not their peers and their parents whispering, gossiping and turning them into outcasts for one mistake? Have they never looked at a woman or a man with lust? Because Jesus was quite clear on what adultery is. I see all of you walking around with two eyes so who exactly turned having a child out of wedlock into a mark of shame? Who keeps on throwing the first stone and calling him/herself sinless? I'll tell you who, the same people who blame the solution for being too drastic. Get your house in order instead of arguing over who has the spec of dust in its eye and who has the log wedged in there. The source is clear of why a woman, especially a young girl would want to abort, you can fix the source and if the cure is worse than the disease and you control the disease you should stop spreading the bloody disease instead of complaining about the harsh reality of its cure.
Go make a sermon not about why abortion is wrong but on why shaming a girl who made a lapse in judgment and is pregnant is wrong. Why treating sinners as outcasts is wrong. Fix the source of a problem and you won't have to worry about people taking matters into their own hands to solve it. The people who think abortion is within their rights will not listen to your sermons padre, but those that would shame a young teen for having a child out of wedlock might. I am not saying don't preach against abortion but for every sermon you do on that, do three on this and perhaps you will no longer have to preach against abortion one day but you will still need to preach against us pointing fingers on our brothers and sisters to shame their sins.
Are we here to judge one another for our sins or do we have God doing it for us?
Thanks for posting this.
I’m a Christian but I don’t have an opinion on abortion because I am not a woman.
How do you feel about a pregnant mother who will die if she does not have an abortion. I have known several instances of this. One had an abortion and went on to have a good life. The other choose to keep the baby and died after giving birth.
It's hard to tell if a prediction will actually come true. I remember seeing some video where the parents were told the baby was deformed in the womb and would be born that way. And, I can't remember exactly, but it was either expected to live its whole life that way or would die soon after birth. They decided not to abort and the baby formed itself properly so that by the time it was born, it came out perfectly normal. And they showed the kid, a few years old, standing there with a big smile on his face, perfectly healthy and intelligent.
When I was employed at my job(medical field) I was asked what I was uncomfortable in doing. I stated I would not want to assist in *Abortion* rooms. During my probation period I was assigned a room for such cases; I complained but was denied to switch with other employees who were willing. Sometimes the fetus are dead and needed to be taken out to save the mothers, but sometimes its the mother who want to get rid of it. *I wander if it's a sin when you are forced to be involved in such cases*.
I would go to confession to be sure. That is a tough situation and is probably closer to a venial sin due to the nature of the situation described. But that said, why try and figure out if it was venial or mortal? better to go to confession and do your best to avoid those situations.
That must have been so difficult for you. Will pray that God gives you another job or assignment that your feelings wont be compromised..
@@trevorhanlin4247 I will talk to my priest about it and also go for confession. Thanks for your advice. Stay blessed 🙏
@@paf9533 Thank you for your prayers, It is well with God in control. Be Blessed 🙏
I would trust God who looks at the heart.
I love that analogy you use at the beginning of the video, because that's exactly how I view the abortion debate. An abortion should never be something that is taken lightly... It's a very serious matter, and shouldn't be a decision made lightly.
Because it's such a serious matter, women shouldn't be looked down on for seeking abortion care, and anyone serious enough to seek an abortion is going to do so whether it's legal or not, so keeping clinics open is ultimately a better thing than banning them, as it allows medical professionals to perform it in sanitary environments.
Outstanding presentation on such a complex issue.
06:02 Killing already formed and born baby is totally different that getting rid of few cells that you won't even be able to see without microscope. I see nothing difficult in it.
Is Burning one house the same as burning down the whole city? Hypothetically a city can start to form from just one house. It will take a lot of time, but it's possible. Does it mean that the value of one house is the same as the whole city?
Maybe people will say that houses don't have souls, but there is no proof that humans do. Some just believe in it.
If you believe that abortion is a crime - don't do it. If you don't want a pregnancy but your contraception failed you - do it. I think that people should have a choice to act on their beliefs but in no way they should push their beliefs down other people throats.
Hi, it is not some cells that can only be see by a microscope.
At just 3 weeks the heart start breating and in the early 6 week we can detect theme.
At 12 weeks it is more than 7 cm an can be see without problems with an ultrasound and discover if it is a boy or a girl.
I highly recommend reading something about embriologi because most of the time we just don't know whose killing are we defending.
Definitely we can't ignore Biology.
What if someone went around saying murder is okay in my opinion. Would you still say to not push beliefs down their throat?
Absolutely Father. And compassion and support to those who have had abortions . Those who have lived the with guilt and regret and those who have repented. May they be comforted and healed.
Love your video . God bless you Father Casey. Peace and love to you from the Philippines 🤗💕
I feel like the question shouldn’t be if the baby is alive, but if the mother had any moral responsibility to donate their body to a baby so they can live. A very common situation where people get abortions is that they where raped and impregnated, does the person have a moral responsibility to carry her rapist baby? Or is it her personal decision? Its like guilting someone into donating their organ, they aren’t obligated to give their organ to someone, and if they don’t they are not responsible for a persons death because they couldn’t get a doner.
Fr. Casey! Here’s another issue that comes up in my life very really. I am an identical twin. My twin, Joseph died a year ago tomorrow the 26th. I am intensely sad. When the cell fertilized by my Dad and Mom divided for the first time in her womb, there were two separate and distinct, yet identical persons. Sure we were just a pile of cells, but we were full of life and possibilities. Joseph has gone to Our Lord after suffering terribly with ALS. I am still around. I am still just a pile of cells. I am the same individual person as I was in the womb. I no longer have jet black hair, but pure white. I am no longer the youth with the swimmer’s body, but a chubby old man. But the me that is me is still the same, a little wiser perhaps, but the same person.
I pray for you and Joseph 🌼 God bless ❤️
Something I learned from a pro life embryologist a while back that has helped me to answer the "clump of cells" argument, is that from conception the developing child is still a genetically unique, whole, self-determinate human organism, with already everything internally present that is necessary to mature unto an adult human organism or human being. A finger, ear, ovum, heart, lungs, are a mass or clump of human cells, part of a human organism (or human being) but not a human organism nor can they ever mature into one. It most countries laws prevent embryonic research past the point where the embryo might twin because at that point science had agreed that the embryo was a unique individual (I assert that the rare gene that allows twinning also makes the embryo a unique individual) and ethical questions about human experimentation become more difficult to ignore. Scientists were also not capable of keeping embryos in a lab alive longer than this until recently and in the last couple of years there has been push to extend or remove this limit.
Paola thank you. This is very difficult.
Praying for you and your brother, thank you for the comment 🙏 I'm a big supporter in the fight against ALS, I pray we are closer than ever to a cure for this truly awful disease. God bless you
Pray for you and your brother, some days you might join him in heaven.
it's not that the life of the fetus suddenly doesn't matter anymore or that we do not care to answer the question of life either. the way i see it is that there are two lives, except that one is dependent on the exploitation of the other in order to survive. The one being exploited has the right to object to it, even if it means a life was lost because their right to bodily autonomy and to self-determination outweighs. Think of it this way: person A is a fully grown adult, they also suffer from kidney failure and the ONLY way they can survive is to connect their bloodstream to the one of another person with fully functional kidneys, so that their blood can be cleaned and they can survive. Yet, the only way to get another person to do that and save that person would be to kidnap a person and connect them without their consent. Surely most people would find that to be very wrong. To simply take a person like that, utilise their body in this way without their consent, it feels incredibly violating. Yet this scenario is analogous to abortion. You utilize the body of another person for the sake of another one without their consent.
I fully understand the argument that human lives matter more than everything else. However, the reason i choose to be pro choice is that when you have to trade off bodily autonomy with the fetus, well autonomy is what makes us individual and 'unique' in the first place. it is what makes us and our lives valuable in the first place. What is the point in living if i have no autonomy? What differentiates me from a vegetable if i have no autonomy? The point being that autonomy and the ability to decide over my own existance is what makes the right to life valuable in the first place. It is why so many would feel that kidnapping an innocent person to save another would be wrong. The exploitation of a body in pregnancy just isn't as obvious.
Thats also why in the case of that woman it's different because once the baby is out of the womb, it doesn't rely on the body of another person to survive. therefore, denying it the right to libe there is wrong.
I would also like to add that just because one cannot draw a clear line, things can't be clearly different. We cannot draw a line where apes started being humans. each generation looked like the previous one, yet there is a clear difference.
But after all of that i can still understand if you aren't convinced. In that case just leave the theoretical debate behind and look at the practical. We cannot ban abortions. Often times these girls are desperate: they know their families will reject them, etc. that means that they will find a way. an illegal and highly unsafe one. be it in a shady practice or using a coat hanger at home or consuming large amounts if drugs and alcohol. Even if abortions were wrong, we still shouldn't ban them because the outcome would be far worse.
With that, i still wanted to add that although i disagree i thought that this was very well-worded and respectful and i liked the video. its a shame not all discourse could look like this.
i hope this made sense
We all learned in health-class in the fifth grade that concrete visual, a baby is forming, saying that you don't know means that you are not smarter than a fifth grader, and should not make life or death decisions.
The reason why I view the 1st situation as tragic is only because of the negative emotional impact to the mother and father. A fertilised egg is just that: an egg. The potential of life has been lost, not a baby. These situations obviously cause of a lot of grief for the parent/s, which I sympathise with, however, looking at an early miscarriage from a pragmatic standpoint, the personitification of these cells is in no way rational.
If your view is that a full fledged human life begins at conception, then it doesn't make sense to me how you can continue to support the meat and dairy industries. You deeply empathise with something that doesn't have any awareness or conciousness, yet have zero problems with animals actually capable of feeling pain and emotions experiencing suffering for your own personal gain?
Every person's journey starts at the moment of conception. I'm not even Catholic, but have always thought this.
@Ian Which religion/philosophy adheres to that belief?
@@splashpont The Catholic one.
Unfortunately you have to define conception now as a second definition meaning implantation, rather than the long standing meaning of fertilization, was created to hide the fact that the IUD and hormonal contraception worked to prevent implantation and cause early abortion. Emergency "contraception" also uses semantic manipulation to hide its abortifacient nature by saying it will not end an ESTABLISHED pregnancy. It is surprising how many "pro-life" organizations actually accept and even promote the use of all of these.
@@voidremoved Sperm is not alive...
Yeah except it is a construct that may vary. When we didn't have so much advanced science and medicine, people considered a woman to be pregnant after we now know is the first trimester. People were very religious back then and nonetheless women did things to provoke a miscarriage when they didn't want the baby. People didn't think they were pregnant by that stage.
10 questions about Abortion
1. If DNA and the genetic makeup, for a complete person, are present at the time of conception doesn’t life begin at conception?
2. Don’t test-tube babies also indicate that life begins at conception?
3. Does in-vitro-fertilization suggest that life begins at conception?
4. Why do embryony textbooks state that human life begins at fertilization?
5. Do fetuses feel pain? Why isn’t this a bigger question in abortions?
6. Is there any relationship between when life begins and when life ends? Heartbeat? Brain waves?
7. When does a fetus develop a nervous system?
8. Viability is at least two weeks earlier than Roe does that matter?
9. What is the difference between abortion and infanticide?
10. Do you think animals should have more rights than fetuses?
no, no, no, it means the cells are alive not the organism, no because they are not alive, end of second trimester, no, infanticide is murder of a baby that has been born already, and yes because they feel pain and are cognitive whereas fetuses are not
One is wanted and the other isn't. So very sad but true. Thank you for beautifully stating the flaw of the argument.
Pets are wanted, animals in slaughterhouses aren't. One is killing, one is food. Think about that. This video is so dumb, I actually thought he would have an argument.
Until birth it does remain subjectively alive or not at the will of the mother simply due to the fact that no one has entitlement to the body of another even if their life depends on it.
If the child after birth needs a blood transfusion or it will die and the mother is a match no one can force her to give the child blood and it is not considered murder if she doesn’t. The child is not entitled to her body for survival unless she consents to it.
On another note if a child is for some reason on life support and the mother is the sole responsible guardian they are also the one who has the legal and moral power to decide when to pull the plug. This also is not considered murder but nonetheless a difficult choice to make.
A baby in utero is essentially using the mother’s body as life support and if she withdraws consent of the use of her body to support that baby that is 100% within her rights and this is why the quality of life becomes a subjective factor because there is a gatekeeper who gets to decide wether life thrives or not. The mother is the sole arbiter.
In the last case however where the child is already born and of no risk or harm to the mother she can certainly relinquish her parental rights and put the baby for adoption however since the effort to get the child aid is a negligible inconvenience compared to the death of the child that mother was indeed in the wrong.
There Fixed your logic for you.
Recently saw a post where someone who had convinced a woman not to abort knowing the baby would be born into an abusive situation was annoyed DCFS called her saying the family put her name up as someone possibly willing to take the baby. She was annoyed. She didn't have time for that.
We as a church and as a society have to do what we say we believe or our words mean nothing. If you claim to be pro-life but really only care until the baby is born and don't want your taxes to fund public school, public housing, parenting classes, food stamps, medicaid etc in order to keep that child then you're really only pro-birth.
The Catholic Church has every right to tell its followers that abortion is not allowed. But they don’t have the right to impose that on non Catholics.
Nobody has the right to kill a life because they're inconvenienced by it, Catholic or not.
@@alexbrocklebank8821 it’s a damn embryo it’s an extension of the mothers body
@@CT-mz8ob it is alive
an embryo is a term used to describe a stage of a HUMAN BABY inside the womb@@CT-mz8ob
These are very powerful insights and the hypothetical scenarios were spot on. This is the first time I have heard an argument presented this way. Great job!
And it's so true that in the end the pro-choice side really does not have any concrete, objective, arguments for abortion - it's mostly emotion driven. And one cannot argue with emotions.
Fr. Casey, are you going to make next video on Adoption? (pun intended ofcourse) I thank you for talking about life, that is a gift (unique) of Almighty God, that has to be respected no matter what.
A human life begins at conception, it is a biological fact
Have you ever eaten a 🥩?
?
Cells begin at conception. Consciousness and development begin at 9 weeks. Pain is felt at 30 weeks. Before 5 and a half weeks, it's just an egg.
@@kinndah2519 Yet even most animals care about their fertilized eggs.
@@kinndah2519 where did you get the information that before 5 1/2 weeks an embryo is an egg or that conciousness begins at 9 weeks? Embryogy states that from fertilization the newly created child is a genetically unique, living, WHOLE, self-determinate and independent human organism (human being) with everything already internally present that is necessary to mature into an adult human organism. Even before implantation the embryo sends out hormones that are neurotransmitters to the mother and though not verbal, this form of communication continues between mother and child throughout pregnancy. We also know from IVF research that the embryo intiates implantation and the development of the placenta. There is neuronal activity beginning at 14 days which is one reason that there is an international agreement, enforced by law in most countries, limiting embryonic research to 14 days. At 21 days a heartbeat can be detected and rapid brain growth begins shortly after. Brainwaves can be detected at 5-6 weeks. By 9 weeks the fetus can be observed sucking his or her thumb and the baby will also kick if the bottom of the foot is lightly touched.