The gears on a geared motor are not like your cassette gears . They are 3 planetary gears that orbit a center gear which has a clutch which engages when torque is applied in forward direction.
Gearless is way better. I run a direct drive on my converted Trek 4300 and the regen is awesome. If you have a motor that you can pump up the regen, you can almost get away with never using physical brakes. I don't even bother with a rear brake and only run a front disc for emergency stops. It's one less part of the bike you have to maintain, and removing the rear physical brake can offset some of the weight gain by going direct drive. If you live in a flat area you really don't need geared motors
I suppose if you are unwilling at all to provide ANY pedal assistance, then yes you should use a geared motor. I've never run into a hill I couldn't climb as long as I provided assistance to the motor. If you're just looking for a vehicle to sit back on and do zero pedaling, why not just get a scooter?
I didn't hear more dummy idea as removing rear brake on a ebike. So, if you need to stop in a rush when going 40km/hour, and can use only front brake, you'll see emergency hospital from inside in a flash.
if you want to stay in legal limits.. at 750 watts and 20mph limit then geared hub is best as it is lighter, cheaper has more torque and more efficient at those rpms if you want a fast electric bike and you don't want to pedal much than you go with Direct Drive or gearless hub motor. (>1500 watts) they can maintain speed and quieter.
Very easy. Gearless - WAY robust and heavier, almost indestructible and faster. Has regen brake. Geared - slower, lighter, higher start torque and much more sensitive and prone to fails.CheerZ
I have an idea: to put the best of both worlds togeter. How?: wel, start picking a geared motor and modifying it this way. Think that te output of the geared hub has a free wheel device, that's actually perfec because then you only need to put an engaging or clutch system between te drum of the motor and the external housing of the motor and drive te wheel directly once you have speed because the direct speed of the drum will naturally overcame the speed of the geared out wich is conected trhough a free wheel mechanism, not interfering at all ech other.
In the UK up in hilly Yorkshire I like the geared hub drive, 15mph speed limit and hills everywhere so low speed assist but with some torque is in order. Also it allows me to speed down the hills fast with little rolling resistance. My fiido d3s bike does the job pretty well with its geared motor. BUT I'm wanting to convert my mountian bike and thinking mid drive with torque sensing will be best and I have seen green pedal units coming out that looks perfect, just gotta get hold of one!
I just ordered a Befang 48v 500w mid drive for a mountain bike with 3" tires. Canadian law enforcement has been relaxed about the 250w limit so far . With a 250w sticker on it , a 500 watt motor could pass if laws tighten up. Beware though they come from China and there could be delays due to Corona virus.
Any comparison should state which is quieter? For flat'ish trail riding toting the camera gear, which will get you in and out with least noise? That is the latest gear drive hubs use spiral cut gears, so they are quieter. And some direct drives suffer from controller induced hum (trapezoid wave signals). So which is really quieter?
So geared hub e bikes have no drag and rides like a normal bike when we pedal without any battery use? If so that's what I want. Sometimes my battery would run out and then I'd just ride the bike like normal instead of using twice the effort to pedal if I had a gearless hub ebike.
@@FVBmovies yes, for lighter bikes, but in case of velomobiles or heavier touring bikes, they need regen when going downhill, and they dont have much stops to recharge
Mine have 80.000km on it already, been riding it to work and it ever survived 2 winters, rain, deep snow, salt and i didnt even have to do a single service to it. Still going on oryginal bearing. That thing is impossible to kill.
I'm currently considering converting my citizen folding bike (20 inch wheels) to electric. I'm a senior looking for some assistance on short trips for mostly flat terrain with only slight hills. I'm not interested in high speed.There are so many kits on the market I don't even know where to begin looking.I'm also on a limited budget (Soc. Sec is only income), so economy is to be taken into consideration. Suggestions would be highly appreciated. Thanks.
Thanks for the informative video buddies. I am from India & am stuck between geared & gearless motor. We are allowed only 250 watts motor here & I am getting them from China (like everybody else in the world). Can you tell me how much difference in battery capacity should i expect for 50km range on gealress & geared motor. (assuming the terrain is 98% flat, 75kg load). Also, what voltage should i go for, 36v or 48v, assuming I will be running it mostly on throttle? PS - The direct drive motors can have this amazing feature of anti theft lock / alarm, but not the geared motors.
I too will be ordering one soon, what you need is a geared motor, I have spent a few weeks learning about ebike kit, motor, battery etc, don't worry about 250w because no one will catch you as long as you pedal assist while motor is running, get a 350w geared hub motor or bafang mid drive kit with at least 36v 8ah battery you should get pure throttle speed of 35km, if going for 48v then you should go with motor that has 48v controller to get speeds up to 50kmph and great torque, distance range depends on the ampere hour of the battery, not good if anything bigger than 11ah (heavy!)
If theft is a concern then go for security. A stolen ebike won't get you from A to B unless you stole it. 250w... I would get the 36v battery .I have a 24v geared motor but it's a little weak ... still very helpful but works harder. I think 36v battery should last longer than mine. 48v is over kill for 250w.
The geared motor enhances the starting torque & for slow running. A gearless direct drive motor cannot bear the starting load. So high power direct drive motor is the solution, but this consumes larger battery power. While the direct drive motor offers almost trouble free service, geared motor have seized or broken plastic gears after use, which needs maintenance. However 250w geared hub motor is the cheap and the best motor.
some geared are super noisy at high speeds and gearless is super quiet, my current geared motor is freaky noisy at around 20+mph. I am waiting on my gearless motor to arrive so I can see the differences then. I really wanted a higher top speed and quieter motor.
How much less range will a geared motor offer? I live in a rural area near the foot hills of the Appalachian mountains. So lots of hills and lots of long distances....
Range is something that depends upon so many factors, so there's not a number we can really confidently give you for something like that. Honestly if you're in a hilly area and traveling long distances, and mid drive will probably be best for you since they are more efficient on climbing hills.
Direct drives used as mid-drives is the real winner. They have all the advantages. Silent. Powerful. Don't overheat. Saving brakes by regen. Little maintenance.
This bike was really easy to assemble ruclips.net/user/postUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA and required very few adjustments out of the box. The wheels did not require any truing/adjustments. The frame had some small scratches, but nothing major.I did replace the seat though - the seat it came with was very uncomfortable. The tires need to be re-inflated every 4-5 days, but this appears to be quite common for the narrow 700x25 tires.Overall, in my opinion, this bike looks and rides like a much more expensive bike.
The gearless motors typically last longer and are maintenance free, but they aren't really able to be serviced. If a piece of the motor for any reason stops working, you'll need to replace the entire motor. The nice thing about geared motors is that they are serviceable, in the event that your gears wear out over the years, you can replace them with new ones and the motor is good to go. Geared motors generally cost less, and are used on all the more affordable bikes we carry (Populo/Blix/iGo).
hii What about the life span of motor. Wich is better ??? I heard the gears is from plastic and will wear. So if want a strong motor for commuting wich is better?????
Hub motor bike's climbing capabilities depend on the bike they're on, but in general they can climb very effectively if you're in a low gear on the bicycle.
That's actually the opposite of the truth. The gears help you gain speed but tax the motor at higher speeds. A direct-drive takes more energy to get up and going but maintains that energy much more efficiently once you are going.
@@aznative_ geared ebike motor ant not geared peak eff is obiovs same. And often geared motors with 1 to5 reduction have higher efficienty than not geared hub motors.
@@Alksbbch the only thing that gear reduced motor can do a more efficiently then a direct drive motor is takeoffs and climbing hills. If you're trying to argue that pushing a motor and then reducing it to a slower speed five times is somehow making it more efficient at the top end you're missing something very significant. I'd recommend watching the video it doesn't seem like you actually watched it and if you did you certainly didn't pay attention.
@@aznative_ due wery low RPM. Hub direct drive motors have standart efficienty peak about 80 precnts. Sometimes 83, sometimes 86. But many motors have about 80. While geared motors can have prak efficiency also about 80, 83, 86. But often more than 80. Only big power hub motors who about 2-3 KW can have efficiecy 90 precents or more. And geared also have better efficiecy at low speed... Hub motors direct drive have good efficienty only on hight speeds like 50 kmph with 26 inch rim. On slow speed up to 25 kmph it not have good efficiency. I comapring this motors on speed up to 25 kmph, bevause it legal speed in Europe.
AliExpress, typically the 500w motors are 1000w+ anyway they just re-badge them. The insides are rarely different. It's cheaper to make one motor that supports a wide range of voltages. Personally I wouldn't go over 60v 25 amps on them as the wires are quite thin on most geared hub motors and even then I would monitor and occasionally touch the wires into the motor to check temperature. Currently I run 48v 22 amps through my hub motor and it stays cool to touch unless I'm going up a very very steep hill at full throttle 😂 even then it only gets warm. I have a in frame battery so can't really go up voltage wise unless I have my battery external.
@@freedomofmotion I ended up getting a 1500w direct drive hub motor. It’s a 48v system, but I’m thinking of running a 60v battery. Currently I’m using a 52v battery and the motor is warm to the touch, 60v might get me up to 40mph, currently hitting 35
You kept mentioning weight, it's been my experience that the extra weight of the higher capacity battery in the geared motor bike is comparable to the weight of the gearless motor bike for the amount of distance you can travel on one charge.
Gearles have better top efficiency, because not have gears and have lover speed, lees edgy curent losses and hysteresis loses. But they not have big torgue, so to have great efficiency (in wide rpm range) need strongly limint current of controler.
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The gears on a geared motor are not like your cassette gears . They are 3 planetary gears that orbit a center gear which has a clutch which engages when torque is applied in forward direction.
Very nice, the efficiency at higher speeds is exactly what my plan needed. Thanks for explaining and enriching my knowledge base.
Gearless is way better. I run a direct drive on my converted Trek 4300 and the regen is awesome. If you have a motor that you can pump up the regen, you can almost get away with never using physical brakes. I don't even bother with a rear brake and only run a front disc for emergency stops. It's one less part of the bike you have to maintain, and removing the rear physical brake can offset some of the weight gain by going direct drive. If you live in a flat area you really don't need geared motors
To each their own!
dave himlin gear less motors are the best. Just stop being lazy and power up those hills.
I suppose if you are unwilling at all to provide ANY pedal assistance, then yes you should use a geared motor. I've never run into a hill I couldn't climb as long as I provided assistance to the motor. If you're just looking for a vehicle to sit back on and do zero pedaling, why not just get a scooter?
I didn't hear more dummy idea as removing rear brake on a ebike. So, if you need to stop in a rush when going 40km/hour, and can use only front brake, you'll see emergency hospital from inside in a flash.
I steer with my teeth to. To free up hands to use my iPhone while biking too. That frees me up with loads more time. HAHAHAHAHAHA
Great video and explanation!! The watts and tq of both bikes would have been nice information too.
if you want to stay in legal limits.. at 750 watts and 20mph limit then geared hub is best as it is lighter, cheaper has more torque and more efficient at those rpms
if you want a fast electric bike and you don't want to pedal much than you go with Direct Drive or gearless hub motor. (>1500 watts) they can maintain speed and quieter.
In Georgia it's 1000w... sweet whuh?
Geared hub motors are usually more expensive than gearless hub motors.
In the UK its 250 watts to be legal :(
Sounds like UK suks.
Wait so can a geared motor switch gears or is it a one gear.
Clear and concise... amazing review
Very easy.
Gearless - WAY robust and heavier, almost indestructible and faster. Has regen brake.
Geared - slower, lighter, higher start torque and much more sensitive and prone to fails.CheerZ
also gearless can be "overclocked" higher ..and abusing it it's no issue due to the heat dissipation
I have an idea: to put the best of both worlds togeter.
How?: wel, start picking a geared motor and modifying it this way.
Think that te output of the geared hub has a free wheel device, that's actually perfec because then you only need to put an engaging or clutch system between te drum of the motor and the external housing of the motor and drive te wheel directly once you have speed because the direct speed of the drum will naturally overcame the speed of the geared out wich is conected trhough a free wheel mechanism, not interfering at all ech other.
is it safe to say, that the best way to settle this topic is "Do you want regenerative engine-braking included, or not?"
Just don't expect regained range much, because it's usually low and doesn't really justify having it, besides reducing brake pad usage.
Thank you for explaining this! Much needed!
In the UK up in hilly Yorkshire I like the geared hub drive, 15mph speed limit and hills everywhere so low speed assist but with some torque is in order.
Also it allows me to speed down the hills fast with little rolling resistance.
My fiido d3s bike does the job pretty well with its geared motor.
BUT I'm wanting to convert my mountian bike and thinking mid drive with torque sensing will be best and I have seen green pedal units coming out that looks perfect, just gotta get hold of one!
I just ordered a Befang 48v 500w mid drive for a mountain bike with 3" tires. Canadian law enforcement has been relaxed about the 250w limit so far . With a 250w sticker on it , a 500 watt motor could pass if laws tighten up. Beware though they come from China and there could be delays due to Corona virus.
Graphene or carbon nanotube wire windings can make super efficient light motors.
Any comparison should state which is quieter? For flat'ish trail riding toting the camera gear, which will get you in and out with least noise? That is the latest gear drive hubs use spiral cut gears, so they are quieter. And some direct drives suffer from controller induced hum (trapezoid wave signals). So which is really quieter?
He DOES tell you which is quieter....watch it again.
Geared motors are good for places with lots of hills
Awesome! Many thanks for the simple explanation.
The choice depends on if it's hilly where you ride.... why have drag going down hill and less torque for uphill for a direct drive.
Which is better for hills?
@@mychannel-lp9iq geared is better for hills
So geared hub e bikes have no drag and rides like a normal bike when we pedal without any battery use? If so that's what I want. Sometimes my battery would run out and then I'd just ride the bike like normal instead of using twice the effort to pedal if I had a gearless hub ebike.
Yes, that is exactly what a geared hub will do for you!
yes, but it's without regeneration.
@@zazugee Who needs regen? Maximum 7% to the battery? Nah. Better to invest in lighter bike components.
@@FVBmovies yes, for lighter bikes, but in case of velomobiles or heavier touring bikes, they need regen when going downhill, and they dont have much stops to recharge
@@zazugee If used for braking exclusively, then yeah, but not for the regained range which is laughable.
I find direct drive motors the best option, no moving parts is always best, you can feather the power distribution on the fly.
Mine have 80.000km on it already, been riding it to work and it ever survived 2 winters, rain, deep snow, salt and i didnt even have to do a single service to it. Still going on oryginal bearing. That thing is impossible to kill.
THANK YOU 😊
I'm currently considering converting my citizen folding bike (20 inch wheels) to electric. I'm a senior looking for some assistance on short trips for mostly flat terrain with only slight hills. I'm not interested in high speed.There are so many kits on the market I don't even know where to begin looking.I'm also on a limited budget (Soc. Sec is only income), so economy is to be taken into consideration. Suggestions would be highly appreciated. Thanks.
Thanks for the informative video buddies. I am from India & am stuck between geared & gearless motor. We are allowed only 250 watts motor here & I am getting them from China (like everybody else in the world). Can you tell me how much difference in battery capacity should i expect for 50km range on gealress & geared motor. (assuming the terrain is 98% flat, 75kg load). Also, what voltage should i go for, 36v or 48v, assuming I will be running it mostly on throttle? PS - The direct drive motors can have this amazing feature of anti theft lock / alarm, but not the geared motors.
I too will be ordering one soon, what you need is a geared motor, I have spent a few weeks learning about ebike kit, motor, battery etc, don't worry about 250w because no one will catch you as long as you pedal assist while motor is running, get a 350w geared hub motor or bafang mid drive kit with at least 36v 8ah battery you should get pure throttle speed of 35km, if going for 48v then you should go with motor that has 48v controller to get speeds up to 50kmph and great torque, distance range depends on the ampere hour of the battery, not good if anything bigger than 11ah (heavy!)
If theft is a concern then go for security. A stolen ebike won't get you from A to B unless you stole it. 250w... I would get the 36v battery .I have a 24v geared motor but it's a little weak ... still very helpful but works harder. I think 36v battery should last longer than mine. 48v is over kill for 250w.
The geared motor enhances the starting torque & for slow running. A gearless direct drive motor cannot bear the starting load. So high power direct drive motor is the solution, but this consumes larger battery power. While the direct drive motor offers almost trouble free service, geared motor have seized or broken plastic gears after use, which needs maintenance. However 250w geared hub motor is the cheap and the best motor.
What about noise level of geared vs direct motors, how much noise difference is there actually? Like to have a quiet ebike.
Geared is louder. Also depends on quality of the motors. Direct motors are extremely quiet. (Violamart)
some geared are super noisy at high speeds and gearless is super quiet, my current geared motor is freaky noisy at around 20+mph. I am waiting on my gearless motor to arrive so I can see the differences then. I really wanted a higher top speed and quieter motor.
How much less range will a geared motor offer? I live in a rural area near the foot hills of the Appalachian mountains. So lots of hills and lots of long distances....
Range is something that depends upon so many factors, so there's not a number we can really confidently give you for something like that. Honestly if you're in a hilly area and traveling long distances, and mid drive will probably be best for you since they are more efficient on climbing hills.
great comparaison, thanks !
My bike is too fucking heavy to pedal even without a motor lmao
Can you climb on gearless bike ?
Direct drives used as mid-drives is the real winner. They have all the advantages. Silent. Powerful. Don't overheat. Saving brakes by regen. Little maintenance.
This bike was really easy to assemble ruclips.net/user/postUgkxMesz3KOGEmwmvyKQfLfrRSUXLFzfVHZA and required very few adjustments out of the box. The wheels did not require any truing/adjustments. The frame had some small scratches, but nothing major.I did replace the seat though - the seat it came with was very uncomfortable. The tires need to be re-inflated every 4-5 days, but this appears to be quite common for the narrow 700x25 tires.Overall, in my opinion, this bike looks and rides like a much more expensive bike.
Are geared hubs much noisier than gearless?
They are louder, but not to any intrusive level.
I made a decision on purchase a specialized turbo can you made a review of this bikes?
We will actually be carrying Specialized E bikes later this summer. They've shifted to all mid drive bikes for their latest models.
NYCeWheels What brand of motor do they use?
Which one will last longer if about evenly priced? The gear motor in question is a bit pricer a believe
The gearless motors typically last longer and are maintenance free, but they aren't really able to be serviced. If a piece of the motor for any reason stops working, you'll need to replace the entire motor. The nice thing about geared motors is that they are serviceable, in the event that your gears wear out over the years, you can replace them with new ones and the motor is good to go. Geared motors generally cost less, and are used on all the more affordable bikes we carry (Populo/Blix/iGo).
I would go with direct drive because the gears on a geared motor only last so long before the clutch breaks and needs replacing.
Great video but the background music is NOT needed.
Agree. Music is a distraction to the content.
hii
What about the life span of motor.
Wich is better ??? I heard the gears is from plastic and will wear.
So if want a strong motor for commuting wich is better?????
Both are pretty equal in lifespan in most cases. Yes, geared motors do have some friction, but gearless motors can also wear out after long term use.
I want to buy hub motor 1000 watt
Any good on hills ?
Hub motor bike's climbing capabilities depend on the bike they're on, but in general they can climb very effectively if you're in a low gear on the bicycle.
If you often breaking, then gearless motor is better.
That's actually the opposite of the truth. The gears help you gain speed but tax the motor at higher speeds. A direct-drive takes more energy to get up and going but maintains that energy much more efficiently once you are going.
@@aznative_ geared ebike motor ant not geared peak eff is obiovs same. And often geared motors with 1 to5 reduction have higher efficienty than not geared hub motors.
@@Alksbbch the only thing that gear reduced motor can do a more efficiently then a direct drive motor is takeoffs and climbing hills. If you're trying to argue that pushing a motor and then reducing it to a slower speed five times is somehow making it more efficient at the top end you're missing something very significant. I'd recommend watching the video it doesn't seem like you actually watched it and if you did you certainly didn't pay attention.
@@aznative_ due wery low RPM. Hub direct drive motors have standart efficienty peak about 80 precnts. Sometimes 83, sometimes 86. But many motors have about 80. While geared motors can have prak efficiency also about 80, 83, 86. But often more than 80. Only big power hub motors who about 2-3 KW can have efficiecy 90 precents or more. And geared also have better efficiecy at low speed... Hub motors direct drive have good efficienty only on hight speeds like 50 kmph with 26 inch rim. On slow speed up to 25 kmph it not have good efficiency. I comapring this motors on speed up to 25 kmph, bevause it legal speed in Europe.
first link needs update
Very difficult to find geared hubs over 750watts, if anyone knows where to get 1000watt geared hub please share.
AliExpress, typically the 500w motors are 1000w+ anyway they just re-badge them.
The insides are rarely different. It's cheaper to make one motor that supports a wide range of voltages.
Personally I wouldn't go over 60v 25 amps on them as the wires are quite thin on most geared hub motors and even then I would monitor and occasionally touch the wires into the motor to check temperature.
Currently I run 48v 22 amps through my hub motor and it stays cool to touch unless I'm going up a very very steep hill at full throttle 😂 even then it only gets warm.
I have a in frame battery so can't really go up voltage wise unless I have my battery external.
@@freedomofmotion
I ended up getting a 1500w direct drive hub motor. It’s a 48v system, but I’m thinking of running a 60v battery. Currently I’m using a 52v battery and the motor is warm to the touch, 60v might get me up to 40mph, currently hitting 35
You kept mentioning weight, it's been my experience that the extra weight of the higher capacity battery in the geared motor bike is comparable to the weight of the gearless motor bike for the amount of distance you can travel on one charge.
Gearles have better top efficiency, because not have gears and have lover speed, lees edgy curent losses and hysteresis loses. But they not have big torgue, so to have great efficiency (in wide rpm range) need strongly limint current of controler.
Differend things Spelling is terrible.
Pump up your tires 😜
ya allah plz forgive me stop watching this.