EP02 : What E-Bike Motor is best for you ? Hub vs Mid Deep Dive
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- Опубликовано: 19 июн 2024
- Hey guys, thanks for checking out this video.
In this video we go deep into the differences between the different motors for your ebike. This includes geared hub, direct drive hub, mid drive, and even front vs back hubs.
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For the love of God, please either change the background music or turn it down.
Yes.
It's pretty awful.
Yeah sounds like a porn movie (not that id know)
I was waiting for the timewarp intro to stop. Sadly it never did.
TY so much for this important info, I just couldn't concentrate due to the punishing background noise.
Turn the workshop radio off before you start recording your next video!
That is a very good suggestion, thank you! :)
Totally agree.... annoying.
@@LChow-xq3xm Yeah we're going to see if we can reupload it without the music, it seems like a unanimous decision judging by all of the comments
Don't listen to the haters. 🎸🎹🤘
Great video very well explained so even someone with little or no experience with e-bike systems can easily understand all the factors, very useful 🙌
I am trying to be helpful. Let me make a couple of points about the placement of the motors. Of course it’s understood a geared motor is not necessary to place on the front nor a direct drive on the rear. A couple of mandatory things that need to be addressed are the front drive motor and the bike frame. The most dangerous thing is the promotion of the front wheel drive. A bike is not designed to be pulled from the front fork. Particularly with a strong motor, Over time this will stress the front end and make it likely to break off, possibly causing serious injury. The front motor is also likely to twist itself off the front end. It would be advisable to use not only one but two torque arms for safety. As you mentioned it is quite unstable and particularly bad on wet roads. Personally I’d use a front motor only on a trike or something similar where the rear or mid drive is not desirable. Additionally for all e-bike conversions, a bike frame needs to be strong of good quality, not fragile or lightweight because of the stress the motor will cause. (In my opinion steel is preferred above aluminum or carbon fiber) It is no longer a bike but a “motor-cycle “. I will also say that particular attention should be given to the brakes and brake maintenance. A 750-1000w e-bike is dangerous. Again It is not a foot powered bike anymore, it is motorized and is subject to a higher level of stress and pushes the limits and level of speed a standard bicycle is designed to withstand.
I just read the part where you talk about front motor. Everything you say is false. How many front motor bike did you built and ride? You mislead people with your imaginary problem with those. And there is no danger. If you scared of them grow some balls.
Your little helper is a movie star!! Great info/video, thanks! 2 mid drives here!
Thanks for shedding light on that subject matter!
Appreciate the info, bro!
Thank you for watching!! :)
As a complete newby, I appreciate the info. Well done video. Thanx.
Thank you ! Sorry if the music was a bit much 😅
I am currently enjoyed using a direct drive hub user, it has less maintenance especially on chains, brake pads and capable of engine braking that cant be done by a mid drives.But there are pros and cons .
By far the best comparison video on the internet!! Very impressively explained.
Thank you so much!! 🙂
I have 2 motor types of gear and gearless DD. I use the 350watt gear motor to go long distance of over 12 Miles but only 20mph top speed. I use the Gearless DD to do in town delivery stops of steep hills of 2000watt top speed at 42 mph but can not ride over 3 Miles full throttle. What I did was a DIY Dual E Bike using both motor types to coralate function for practical and energy efficient use. Use the 350 watt Gear as base motor as once I go to cruise control at 20mph, I turn on the 2000watt gearless as an accelerated Boost Mode function of going 40mph on long distance over 12 Miles while pulling 200lbs. I couldn't just set up a Dual bike without putting in the right system of function of motors used together. Most ppl go ahead and put on the Gearless DD as both motors but end up using more energy output of battery. My set up was to use half the throttle speed on both motors as 1 throttle to maintain wattage outage use. Jus say I only charge my batteries once a week of both over 3 times a week before of having jus 1 motor. It was genius on my part to hook up right method to be practical and energy efficient as many end up defeating the purpose without putting this in thought.
Good info. Thank you
I want simple, I want power, I want silent I use Direct Drive rear hub motors. I stress Rear Hub motor. I love the silent power and reliability of the No Moving parts motor. They are heavy but when you move as fast as these will you want a little more weight on the frame. Look for systems with built on torque arm if possible. I use 1500 watt systems which go without restrictors in place 40 plus mile per hour couple it with a 48 volt 20 ah 1600watt battery you can climb a mountain without pedaling. I build E-BMX Mini bike for kids using only a direct drive with no bicycle pedals or chain. Just foot pegs in the frame and motor hub on the rear. I call it Wire drive.
Excellent advice!
When considering weight you must factor in everything like the rim, tir, spokes etc just as you dont weight the the frame mount motor with the frame.
Thanks for the video. I have installed 5 mid motors on various bikes. Now, I am considering to get a direct drive hub motor on my 20" folding bike or a MB. But I am not sure where to store the battery pack on the folding bike.
Great video, but what is the music for?
You're right it probably wasn't needed or at least could have been much quieter. We did very little editing on this one. Thanks for the feedback! :)
For the excitement of the video.
I found that very informative and thought provoking. Not sure, I like the advantages of the mid drive but question the biometrics of the cranksets. Also I have heard they're really hard on the wheel freewheel mechanism. I def wouldn't go front wheel drive.
Do they have mid drives with locking freewheel mechanisms to allow selective regenerative braking plus motor disconnect for manual operation?
That was cool hearing the baby. 😁
Haha thank you! Currently there are not any motors that have locking freewheels that allow selective regen. But that is a great idea for sure!!
in your video at 2:56 mins. you showed a 1000 watts rear motor. I would like to know if torque arm is needed for such high power motor?
Very good video informative
Thank you so much! :)
Thanks for all those infos! - How about pedalling with any of those motors, when the battery is empty? Especially mid-hub drives? And what about going downhill with a front motor? - Thank you!
I have all three types, and the geared front and middrive don't add much resistance at all when just manually pedaling. The direct drive is the most difficult to pedal with a dead battery but is still possible. I had to pedal mine 2 miles after poor planning for distance. It was a serious workout.
You should be carrying a Tool kit "chain breaker" any ways.. The BBS02 can be set to 1470w, With my 52v batt and a 52t chainring i can hit 32pmh throttle only, 42 peddling as fast as i can full throttle, 46 drafting a box truck.! and only weight 55lb. All hub drives hate pulling a load "Trailer" at a slow pace.. Especially going slow on rocky trails. Mid drives excel at this and use the bikes derailleur.. "Mine 9 gears" I pull my trailer with the dog on trails that would burn up hub drives.. Yes there are builds that can handle what i do with my ebike.. as the more watts you push the more capable your build will be. Here in Cali the legal max is only 750w tho i'm pushing almost double that.. i'm able to ride with traffic when i have to and not bothered going up any overpass 😎 Where hub drives really shine is commuting in town / leisure riding.. But if you like hill climbs, trail riding and jumps "Off Road" I recommend The CYC X1 Pro Gen 4 5000W Mid Drive Conversion Kit.. yes you will pay big.. but you will have a crazy powerful electric motor cycle "Depending on your build.. there are many groups that can help you out on Facebook 👍
Great info I agree on all counts ! 🙂
Great tips thanks the music was a lil too much but I enjoyed video
best video out there on this, thank you.
how about dual motors!?!?!!
Wow! Thank you so much! We have a dual motor setup we are working on right now! Stay tuned 😁
Superb
Well that's very nice of you, thank you very much :)
What if you use both mid and hub drive
I have a 350w geared hub on the front of my tandem, with a 22amp controller and 52v battery and it is significantly faster than the same battery/controller setup with the 1000w direct drive. I'm wondering if I put the DD motor back on with a 35 amp controller if that will be quicker...
Depends on your motor windings, if you lift the wheel and let the motor spin, you can see the theoretical max speed that the motor will be able to go, under load it will always be slightly less
nice review...what is the latest and best bafang mid drive motor? BBS02 or BBSHD or there will be another new one?
Latest and greatest.... Bafang is making some new motors now but they are forcing the consumer to also run their battery or the motor won't work , so haven't looked into them TOO deeply yet, at least until someone cracks the battery code, because I'm definitely not buying one of their batteries!
Mid Drives as a whole though, the CYC X1 Pro with BAC2000 controller is currently (in my opinion) the best on the market. It is an absolute beast!!
Thank you for your comment!! :)
Front hub on a silent coaster bike. No drag so quiet.
I'm putting an etrike that hauls a wheelchair together. My question is what problems might I have if I use e-wheels on all 3 wheels or mid drive and 2 front hub drive wheels? Oh and I'd like 4" fat tire..
The biggest thing will be controlling all of the motors together with one throttle. We did a video on a 2WD setup you can check out. If the trike has disc brakes then you may have to run dual direct drive motors or one of the geared motors may have to be installed in reverse (some trikes have both discs mounted on the inside which makes the wheels asymmetrical). Hope this helps!
I'm building a recumbent with a mid drive, I want to Make it 3x3 with hub motors up front, can you mount a double sided axle hub on just one side?
You'll need to run a motor like the Grin All Axle One Sided Hub Motor, I believe they are the only motors on the market that will mount on a single side
The new WIRED Freedom. :-)
Thank you!
One thing I like about the tdsz2 is it seems like it looks to mimic the normal act of riding the bike a bit more with torque sensing.
I personally don't really see the point in some of these cadence sensor tunings that have you pedaling as a pure formality. I'd rather ride a motorcycle at that point.
The tdz2 seems like it supplements your own power and makes more sense. I am wondering if direct drives are similar to this?
Some of the nicer cadence sensored systems use a control algorithm called "torque mimicking" where they try to give a feel closer to a torque sensor, this is what many of the KT (Kungteng) controllers do that are found with direct drive kits. They work much better than the Bafang candence sensing systems.
@@ElectricBikeLaboratory I'll look into those. My thing if I were to get an ebike it would be for helping along difficult parts on recreational rides since where I live doesn't allow for cycle transport.
The mentioned KT cadence sensors in torque mode are very natural... It just feels you have stronger legs. Great biking experience... I don't use my 3kw DD bike anymore.... I keep picking the 500w geared hub with KT...
great presentation,,,but how much is the acttual price for each individual motors?
Prices can really be all over the place , generally mid drive is quite a bit more expensive
I have all 3 type on my bike.
Hey doesn't the battery have to be regenerative braking compatible or doesn't matter?
Yes it does, that's an excellent point , typically it would be referred to as a common wire BMS that allows for charge / discharge through the same port. Thanks for the comment ! ☺️
My Bafang geared hub motor never runs hot - and i am not holding back..
Mid drive , if bycicle falls , you will have to swap center the components , the costs and to mount them you will pay also
Direct drive Is the best lowkey imo
I also love Direct Drive
I'm looking for some advice. I have a Redline RainCity Chopper and want to put a 72v 3000w mid drive on it. The bike is a single speed belt drive. Would a mid drive work for this bike being belt drive or does it need to be a chain drive? I love the idea of using gears but the bikes a single speed so could I use a Strmey Archer 8 speed internal geared rear hub with the mid drive? Please help I'm pulling my hair out over this.
3000W would almost definitely shred the gears in an 8 speed sturmey archer unit. The 3 speed units are the most robust.
Almost all mid drives are chain driven, there MAY be someone who has done an aftermarket setup on a BBSHD mid drive to allow for belt drive.
3000w on a mid drive? Why? Mid drives are built for low power multiplied through gears. Direct Drive Hubs handle high power best.
@@sammiller6631 so what would you recommend Sam? I would like it to be able to go 80km/hr top speed and initial get up and go from the start.
is there a 1500w geared hub motor like the one in the wired freedom except it fits in a normal mtb wheel?
I don't think any of the manufacturers will label them as 1500W motors but with even minor mods a 1000W motor can run much higher wattages. I've seen people run G062 motors well above 4000W constantly and reliably
@@ElectricBikeLaboratory those particular motors are for fat bikes.
@@warlockboyburns That's true and good point. A powerful non fat bike motor is the MXUS GDR19
When it comes to picking electric motors, does it have to be either/or? Could it be possible to maximize top speed + fast hill climbing capability, while also maximizing battery life/stability by using a mid drive motor and direct drive motor in tandem? I've been looking all over the internet for somebody who has done this and it looks like you guys have the ability to do it, but I'm wondering if there's some reason why you haven't yet. Or have you?
This is a great question! Thank you for asking!
There is actually a great presentation done by Justin from grin technologies on RUclips about dual Drive motors and he does touch upon this.
My main stance on this is that when you are seeking really high performance the added weight and complexity can take away from the performance. I've seen a few people do mid drive plus hub motor and they thought it was too heavy. Normally one really powerful motor can do the job.
There are cases though where even one powerful motor May overheat so having two motors is great, also on bikes that do really long distance and want to have a redundancy in their electric drive system, if one fails then there is a backup.
Most high powered hub motors can climb Hills quite easily but you're right they will take more energy to do it than a mid-drive.
Could make for an awesome project for you! If you're looking for really high performance and you're okay with the weight and complexity. If you pursue it keep me posted!
@@ElectricBikeLaboratory I really appreciate your quick and detailed reply! I am new when it comes to working on any bicycle, let alone converting a mechanical bike to electric. However, I will make it my goal that when I do get the chance to convert my current bike to electric, I will try with a rear direct drive hub motor and a mid drive bafang. I will make sure to make a video of the process as well :)
I think in order to keep operation more simple, I would prefer to only have the mid drive motor work on pedal assist and the rear hub motor will use thumb throttle/regen braking.
That sounds like a plan! :)
Great Video Thanks, but next time please forget the music background very distracting
Sorry for that
hi.. can that direct drive motor (1000watts) be driven by a 1500watt controller?
Yes, generally speaking. Most 1500W controllers are pushing out 35-40 Amps with a 48v/52v battery. Just monitor the heat of the motor over time. It should not get so hot that you can't keep your fingers on it.
I run all my drive motor with 45amps or 50 amps controller. I even run my bafang 750w gear hub rear motor with a 45 amps sine wave controller.
Great explanation, but the background music needs to be cut altogether or not be so dominant and annoying, your choice is so repetitive.
Keep up the good work, cheers John.
Are two hub 1000w better then one drive motor?
Definitely preference but 2 hubs can take a LOT of power but suck a lot of energy and are heavy
Good information but music was over powering what you were saying ,made it almost impossible to hear you .
Sorry about that
I ACJ teve no 360 graus-Kamunda tv
Why loud music. Can't hear you
Next tíme without music please 😁
Dayum that background music is annoying af! I can't tolerate this vid because of it no matter how good the info is.
Thank you for the feedback! It is well noted, we don't do that on the next one! Appreciate the comment!
Fuck the haters. I like the music
Hahaha thank you!!!! 😂
Who told you the music would be a good idea?
Sorry about that!
I don't like mid-engines anymore... I've been riding a bike with a yamaha mid-engine for 2 years and it has so much power that I have to buy a new chain every 3 weeks...no thanks
Thats a great point! High powered mid drives are chain snappers, and you can be left stranded if your chain breaks! Thanks for the comment 😊
JohnnyNerdOut channel would say you weren't shifting correctly, as he has only broken a chain 3 times in 7 years & each time was his own fault, so...
@@SmokeyTreats Depends on the motor, some motors are more prone to chain snapping even when not shifting. ie Cyclone 3000W, even an ASI BAC2000 powered CYC X1 Pro, there can be a lot of tension going on the chain.
On a Bafang BBS02 / BBSHD / Tongsheng motor, it's definitely a lot less likely to break a chain compared the the prior mentioned.
Thank you for the comment!!
@@SmokeyTreats My chain has never broken, it only wears out every 3 weeks, no matter what chain, no matter if I shift a little or a lot. from 35 kmh or faster there is only one gear left for driving anyway.
This only happens with my 80 nm 250 watt mid-engine (yamaha). on my bike with a 1500 watt hub motor i will probably need a new chain every 3 years.
@@SmokeyTreats JohnnyNerdOut channel would say that just to get clicks.
whats with the music????
Simple answer the Bafang bbs02 is a bad ass motor, Nearly 2 years of some some crazy riding, my, The Bafang is outstanding, The only hub I would bother with is QS, But it's mid motor all day is better in every way compared to any other motor.......
Nice to see you showing the difference in the motors bro.....
But yeah my next build will be a downhill bike, CYC if I can afford it....
But Bafang all day long, Plus the Bafang is programmable with the lead....
I ain't bothered programming mine yet, But yeah I advise Anyone building your own E-bike, Purely coz if it breaks you can fixing it yourself.......
Top vid bro....
My Bafang bike I built is in my vids on my channel, Amazing motor tho, Always keep spare chain in your bag I do, I got half a tool set in my bag, lol......
Bafang is NOT a bad ass motor. Bafang is a cheap knockoff of a design stolen from Sunstar. Why bother with QS?
@@sammiller6631 Still I ain't had none no issue with my motor, Infact it's working so well, I was up hill off roading and my chains derialier snapped from the power a simple little motor pulls out, I got a 1600watt scooter, And if I program it to, I twill probably take off faster than the 1600w scooter I have, I put a little video off the scooter I got, Well worth the money, But with my 20amp hour battery with low mode I get at least 120-130, maybe 140 miles on one charge, Same battery in my scooter I'm getting 40 miles tops, It's only got 2 modes on the scooter which is a bummer, I might buy new controllers coz the scooter keeps burning up fuses like no tomorrow, 3 days an I got to change it, None of that with the Bafang bbs02 motor so now the Bafang bbs02 is worth every penny......
Plain ans simples......
Please keep the camera still, i was starting to feel motion sick.
Wish this music was not in the video or should be quieter
Sorry about that !
I feel like I was listening to music while someone is talking in the background 😭
Sorry about that !! We'll be doing another one going over this again but it will be better :)
music is annoying
It is what it is.
music and dialog doesn't mix well
What's up with annoying music? Gzz..
My apologies, it is too loud. That is basically what every person has commented so far. Next time won't make that mistake again! Thanks for the comment :)
Music is a bit annoying
I tried to watch , But your noise/music in the back ground drowned you out , so I left!!
Well noted, that has been the consensus, not gonna make that mistake again with the music! Thanks for the comment :)
What the F is that music?
This could have been a very interesting video unfortunately have had to turn it off halfway through because of the dreadful music .
Thank you yes that has been the general consent. We will be redoing this video without the distracting music. Thank you for your comment! 🙂
Turn off music
had to stop watching as the music was too loud with an invasive beat - shucks I wanted to listen to you
Sorry about that ! We gotta redo it I can't edit the music out unfortunately :(
bummer about the music.@@ElectricBikeLaboratory I look forward to that