Had two broadway loco, one was good and the second was not so good, same engine! The sounds were tuned way too low on the second one and they won’t tell you how to change them, as they are more difficult to get to them other sound cards! Also noted Kato runs better and have less problems on the track! Right on target on this review. I do have a broadway ltd steam engine that works very well including the sound
Great honest review. I have had the same experience with Broadway Limited needing a lot of work and tuning to get it up to the operating standard of Kato. Broadway Limited is great for selling the sizzle, but their steak leaves a lot to be desired.
I just got my BLI ES44 this weekend... and, it runs perfectly right out of the box. Slow speed is tie-by-tie at speed set "1". No problems with couplers either. It's possible you got a 'lemon', but mine is a really great runner. And, yes I have a number of Kato's as well and they are good loco's no doubt.
All of my N scale locomotives are Kato. I have 3 Amtrak Genesis P42 locomotives I rotate with my Amtrak Superliner I call the Coast Starlight, a Southern Pacific GS4 Lima 4-8-4 in Daylight colors that is my excursion train pulling the 10 car Morning Daylight set, all are Kato & the EMD SDP40F in the Yellow & blue Santa Fe Warbonnet which also a Kato which is my freight locomotive. In a few weeks I will pick up my Southern Pacific EMD SD70M number 9804 & it is a Kato locomotive. I’m very satisfied with my Kato locomotives & I have now 56 freight cars & 2 cabooses for my N scale model railroad on a temporary layout which is the Pacific West Coast Model railroad. The review is nice, informative & it will help many model railroaders to decide what brand of locomotives to buy.
Good video! I've had a few issues with some of my Katos. The first was decoder shortages on an SD70MAC. No one could make it work without shorting out the decoder. It's now a shelf queen. The other I still haven't solved and that is one of my GS-4's does a momentary stall in the curves (15" minimum). It does it on my home layout and on the club layout. I have been more fortunate than others with the BLI locos. I have two AC6000's that run perfectly, a 4-6-2 that so far has been prefect, an F3AB set that has been perfect, but that first run of F7's was a nightmare! I have never had a single issue with any of my Atlas locomotives (post 1990 models). They have all performed perfectly.
I'm glad you have not been victimized by BLI. The Kato problems I'm surprised to hear about, I have several and they work great. I only have one BLI (in the video), so I can't see a pattern per se, but after that one, there won't be any more...
Great Review. We all try to avoid sounding like a fan boy but there is just no denying, after a few years into N scale, that you have KATO then you have everyone else. I know a lot will disagree with me but for myself I always choose the easiest to use most reliable locomotives I can find. I enjoy running them to chasing down the little things that aren't quite right. Even an Atlas workhorse gave me intermittent pickup issues. So again I appreciate your depth and honesty as I was almost lured after seeing and hearing those beautiful models at the factory booth at shows (remember them).
I too have found that all sixteen of my Kato diesels run great right from the first. They will creep along at extremely slow speed all day long, rarely if ever stalling. My two Scale trains engines hum and whine as if trying to move, then lurch forward as I dial up speed. I really wish I could brag about American design and manufacturing but I'm afraid that Mr. KATO has us beat . I only run DC ... any suggestions ?
Nice review, I appreciate you trying to be as honest as you could. The looks of a Broadway limited is nice, but I will not buy them because their quality control is not the best. I'll take the work horse any day! Take care Brian! -ian
An important review that teaches us (once again) that you can't judge a book by its cover. It truly is a pity that BL's superior detail isn't mated to equally outstanding mechanics. With a lot of work, a Kato's detail can be improved, but I don't think it will be easy to upgrade the BL's machanics. That said, if you do succeed, your readership will be thrilled to learn how you did it.
Yes. Im in HO & have aways said, it is far better to have a perfectly running loco than to have a badly running loco, with plenty of details.Details can always be added.I have repowered several locos, in the past, but its the decoder,on DCC, that makes all the difference,these days.. I am asuming the BLI model has sound which makes it difficult to remedy the poor running problem.
Its not surprising. I purchased a Broadway limited e8. It also found all the imperfections on my track. It just wouldent run. However I found the trucks were not moving well. I did some filing and it runs great now. But we shouldent have to modify a brand new locomotive.
It's nice to have people like you give honest reviews to help people learn about different products and what is good and what is not so good you should not be roasted for that and Broadway limited should make sure that their models don't have these kind of problems for the kind of price that they demand for them that's my opinion I do like Broadway limited models I do have some of their models in HO scale and I enjoy them but I have had some also especially one of their cab forwards that was just nothing but a nightmare and was not a well-made engine
I agree, Scott. The physical locomotive itself is great, but the decoder is awful, at least mine is. They need some better quality control in the China factory.
Loved your comparison. I want to add my observations: -no derailment issues here. - performance and detailing same verdict. -I ran into electronic trouble. Friends told me that BLI doesn't t work with railcom. -the BLI gets pretty hot when it has to pull long trains which can lead to stalling (overheating protection?). -So far IMO Scaletrains combines all the pros of both BLI and Kato. I haven't figured out the ideal settings for the BLI. - BLI problems less severe on steam engines.
Yes, the details are great, but the locomotive would have been much better if it had run correctly out of the box. It took a lot of work to get it functional, and it should have run right for the price.
I have 3 Broadway Limited CSX AC6000 and I’ve had the same problem with the couplers not only that, but the coupler height was completely off set and they came like that right out of the box. I also have Kato locomotives and I choose Kato over BLI anytime because I can rely on them I’ve never had any problems with them.
Yeah, I''ve heard that about BLI locomotives. Fortunately, I did not have a problem with coupler height, but then again, I swapped them out for some new Micro Trains couplers anyway. I love my Kato locomotives, they just run, that's it.
@@brianpagemodeltrains yes I agree I love my kato locomotives over the years since I’ve had them I’ve never had any problems with them other than I had a few that needed some fresh lubricants that’s about it and they ran as good as new. I recently ordered the Kato UP E9 and EB sets and the Kato UP the city of Los Angeles passenger set to match with it.
I've owned a BLI SW7 for a year. BLI has had it for three months of that time. I like the looks of their locos but their mechanical stuff is less than desirable.
Thx for the video -- Beginning at 6:54 you mention the very thing I have found w/Broadway Limited also. I encounter track issues that don't seem to crop up w/other brands including KATO. I have wondered if it's a flange thing - looked to see if they are not as thick - not sure.
What I have found so far is that the wheels are spaced apart differently than other brands - It caused me a real problem especially in my Atlas turnouts.
I own 2 Broadway limited engines. A duplex and an e8. The e8 pair could only move two cars and the duplex had shorting issues causing it to be fixed twice. My big thing is Broadway engines are powerhogs and it’s hard to make lashups with them. Kato however is exactly as you said. Smooth and workhorses. I’ll probably continue to buy both but lean more towards kato
It's tough to beat a Kato for a good reliable driver. I hope the BLI works out better after you get it broken in. Maybe a longer shank coupler will fix the issue with the the rolling stock.
I have 4 BLI engines. 2 work pretty good, two were crap out of the box and are currently at BLI for repairs. They said it would be 6 to 8 months before I will see them again. Probably wont be buying anymore BLI power. I am happy with my 4 Kato's so far.
Did they give a reason for why it would take so long? I only ask because in February I sent my SD70ace to them for a replacement decoder and it was back within two weeks, I am in another country.
Great video! I always like to hear what other rr modelers have to say. I can't disagree about Katos, they are rock solid and run great. I have several Katos-none with sound, and 6 BLIs. I really like the BLI's so far, but Brian does bring up some great points. The main one being I do occasionally have problems with them running. Keeping the track clean seems to alleviate any issues. Most of the time they run great for me. A couple of mine also have some minor issues, like the ditch lights not being that bright. I do have to program the CVs some to get them to run exactly the way I want. Overall I think the BLIs have a bit more detail than the Katos. Katos that I have seen are more expensive, especially with sound. ESU I feel is top of the line for sound decoders, but the cost of Katos with sound is now in the $240 range, while the BLIs brand new are about $190-$200. I can get older BLI models for around $160. Is it worth the extra $$s for Kato? Up to the person buying them! I plan on installing some non-sound decoders in my older DC Kato units, but anything new I buy will probably be BLI.
You deserve no flack. Everything you covered has happened to me too. Kato is SO much more reliable. Every one I’ve bought is perfect out of the box. All my BLI locos are hit or miss. Either the designs are bad or their QC is terrible. This video is very accurate.
As much money as Broadway limited locomotives are and with there amazing hype up behind there releases that thing should run flawless right out the box, that's why I stick with Kato and athearn
I bought my BLI out of ignorance, I didn't do enough homework. But it was at my local model store for a good price, and it gave me something to whine about in videos!
Hey Brian, I have a few Broadway Limited locomotives. Two of them ran great out of the box. One of them did the "lurching" thing initially, but I reset the CVs to factory default, and then made a few minor tweaks to the start and mid voltages, and also ran it in both directions for a few minutes at ~75%. After that it has run well for me. I ordered a 4th one and had to return it because the sound didn't work at all (however I think I was sent a used/returned one in that case, because it had some signs of use. So that is more on the place I bought it from. I know some people refuse to buy them because of quality control, but I am super happy with the ones I have, and the sound is really good for n-scale in my opinion. I also have a bunch of KATO locos (include the ES44AC) and they are all super solid, but I have had a couple where I needed to "break them in" before they would run smoothly at low speeds. Of course, I also have managed to get old bachmann and atlas stuff to run well by taking them apart completely and cleaning, adjusting and doing proper oiling. So many people way over oil their locos, most stuff I get used on ebay I immediately take apart clean and re-oil. Anyway, thanks for the comparison, I am looking at getting a BLI ES44AC and I love the details and paint on the one you got.
If you set CV8 to a value of 8, that will reset everything to factory settings. When you do that it will go back to being at address 3 if you changed it.
nancy had bad luck with hers too ill look into kato, if i can find one with dcc installed, my blind eye dont help me with things, i do solder good tho mom tauht me, she was a repair person in a bomb fuse factory, till they moved and her back surgery failed too
Scale Trains locos have the same coupler problems on tighter curves. Kato goes around anything. Their couplers have the greatest lateral movement of any coupler I’ve seen so far.
i had the same prob with my sd40-2, till the plow fell off then it coupled perfectly, aslso clean ur wheels, i know its new but factorys have a haze that gets on stuff, like when you buy new windows ect, theres a gglaze that only comes off if you clean it good
@@brianpagemodeltrains ty just trying to help as much as i can in my way with prasctical experience, i have twelve fox valley ondolas i cant use cuz i carved off the old ones lol, got three running but cant seem to find the rest of the couplers i bought oh my oh my
Plagued with issues on the Broadway limited , and for the Cash , all shoW an no go KAto all the way , cant be beat and you can certainly hyper detail the Kato and have cash for Another KAto.... love the video ....
I love the video, I am a newb to the hobby. I am wondering how you knew the BLi would work on your track? I have a Kato track which is code 80. Was wondering how you knew it would work and if you know exactly what your train is coded to? How do I know which non Kato brand trains will work on my Kato track?
An N scale locomotive should actually work on any N scale track, the spacing between the rails should be the same. I have had situations where even a Kato locomotive didn't fit between the Kato rails quite right, but it's easy to pull or push the loco wheels to fit.
I agree with you on the Broadway Limited engine. It looks good, but they have too many operational issues. I figured out that BLI locomotives have bad voltage regulators, bad pickup designs, small capacitors, and a ridiculously high starting voltage. My two AC6000s have the same issues. All their diesel locomotives have the same problems. Thankfully (for some reason) their steam locomotives don’t have any of the drawbacks (besides the starting voltage problem, but that isn’t an issue if you have enough terminals). I have no clue why steam locomotives don’t have the same issues, but I would bet it’s because they have a larger electrical footprint, different pickups, and larger capacitors.
Don’t feel so bad. I model in On30. I have 5 of the BLI On30 2-8-0 C-16s manufactured approximately in 2004. I also have a number of Bachman On30 2-8-0 C-19s. The Bachman 2-8-0s will go through track work mistakes. The BLI 2-8-0s will too, but will pronounce every flaw in the track work. That is forcing me to correct my track work because BLI was the only manufacturer to mass produce a C-16s. It was the only On30 loco BLI produced. Yet, I prefer to run those BLIs over the Bachman locos. The C-16s really pull, are heavy, and run smooth. The sound system in the BLIs are early DCC control and sound and will only play one sound at a time. Imagine the loco chuffing along, you press whistle button, the chuff stops while the whistle sounds off. The chuff comes back once you let go of the whistle. To fix that I am gutting the electronics. I’m installing the Tsunami 2200 steam decoders. I’m replacing the speakers with Soundtraxx Mega Bass and a regular speaker, both enclosed in the tender with the decoder. While it is apart I’m cleaning it up and lubing with Nano Oils. Nano Oils reduce the amps drawn by the loco. I have made a modification by swapping driver sets 3 and 4. Moving the flange driver set from axle position 4 to 3. I end up with real quiet smooth running loco with modern DCC and sound that can also take a tighter radius. So, don’t be afraid to tune up your new BLI. Clean the wheels. Check your documentation about lubing the gears. It is in the C-16 documentation the comes with it. See if there is a minimum recommended radius for the BLI.
I’ve caught my share of flack over BLI locomotives as well I got 2 of there 2-8-2s in N scale about a year ago. I can’t fault the details. There grate. But the couplers I had problems with. Not a single wheel was in gauge making them derailment prone. And the jerking was nuts. Had to requarter all the drivers. I’m right there with you tho. When your spending BLI money. It better operate as good as it looks. Or it’s a waste as you can get 2 bull dog kato locomotives that will run like champs and haul loads like the real thing. Good luck in finding the problems with them. I sold mine to get some more kato locomotives in the end.
Yes, I had the same problem with the BLI diesel. I had to respace the wheels on the axles, and had to redo the speed tables on it through JMRI just to get it running halfway decently. It was a fun little project, but also an aggravation having spent the money and expecting a good locomotive. Thanks for watching!
Very informative video on both the Kato & Broadway Limited ES44 locomotives. I will at a future date by buying the Kato ES44 locomotive for my freight roster on my model railroad. My N scale model railroad 9 out of 12 locomotives are Kato. I’m satisified with Kato.
Do not have a Broadway Ltd Loco, but have some Kato's. I have the same issues with one of my Kato loco's. I think that every now and then you get one that has an issue or two. Doesn't make all of them bad, the other loco's run great.
I bought the bl Santa fe a &b, the train looked and sounded great. The locomotive would make 2 or 3 loops. then the only way to stop it was shut off power. After this the address would need to be reset, only to have same thing happen. Finally got bl to have me send it in. Got engine back after a long time tried to run it and the same thing happens. Put back in box, put back in the cabinet and say that was a waste of 250.00. But my Kato and atherns non sound dcc's run great but my bl will just sit in the junk pile, looking now for a couple of sound steamers that look and sound great but not bl, the trains are n scale.
I agree, my BLI sd70ace keeps stopping and my track is perfect, but kato's run fine. I dont understand why it runs then a few seconds later the brake noise comes on and it stops. I checked all CV's and they are correct. I will be selling it at a loss im sure
Unfortunately true. Mine doesn't arbitrarily stop like that, but the motor in it is weak, and out of the box, the CVs were just plain wrong. But also, there are quality control issues with the Paragon 3 decoders. I hope the 4s are better.
I own the Kato and it has been excellent except my only issue is the couplers are often difficult to attach my rolling stock. I also have a kato 70 ACe that runs great but couplers are not quite as touchy. I do intend to replace the couplers for both with the kaydee couplers. I also wish to upgrade my Kato locomotives to DCC. I’ve purchased several other Atlas locomotives and my Kato performance is superior to the Atlas.
i love broadway limited, i have 2 ACe’s, and a es44. I love the detail on them, its almost as good as scaletrains. However, my ACe’s dont run too well on code 55 track. You have to widen the gauge of the wheels by a bit to get it better, but it still jumps over turnouts snd sometimes stops. Once i get powered turnouts it should be a lot better. My es44 runs fantastically however i had to widen its wheels too. The sound is great on BLI too. Another thing is my bli ACe’s are veryyyy picky about dirty track. Katos detail kinda sucks compared to newer brands, but katos still run flawlessly. They’re quiet and are smooth. Anyway, the BLI es44s are great, and the ACe’s are mediocre, but both have great detail.
I'm curious, what couplers did the Kato come with? I have some Kato rolling stock and they couple to themselves well enough, but give me problems with everything else. I had to physically modify them to work with my MTL coupler stock.
Yea I know what you mean I think kato is there own style of coupler but Bachman will hook up to them but ya gotta be patient and at my age I’ve lost that 40 years ago
I've bought alot of my stuff used off ebay. And when I get it in I "Get" to work on it. Thats have the fun to me. But, if I spent the money to buy a Broadway limited brand new and I "Had" to work on it right out of the box. I would be pretty upset about it.
I must have lucked out I have the Norfolk Southern version of the Broadway limited and it's been great. Crawls along smooth I also have the kato equivalent and both are close but I do think the Broadway limited has a little better detail in my opinion.
People will always have an opinion but for me, I appreciate the comparison. My question is the price. Is there a big difference in price between the two brands?
I run a lot of kato n scale and they are pure gold outta the box not one issue but like you having trouble with the Broadway limited I’ve got the same problem like you with an atlas I’ve got brand new identical problems that you have so know I don’t feel that alone
I’m an old O-scale modeler (Lionel DCC) who just completely switched to n-scale due to space issues. I sure wish I had seen your video BEFORE I purchased three BLI locos over the holidays. I have a Kato Unitrack layout, and I love the quality of the track and switches. I wanted to continue using DCC and sound, and so I was drawn to the BLI models. Unfortunately, ALL THREE had issues. The Light Mikado would short circuit the entire layout every time it rolled over a switch. The EMD SD70ace would derail the cars attached to it every time it went thru a curve. And finally, the EMD F7 a/b unit couldn’t pull 8 Kato bethgon cars up a 2% incline! It just sat there spinning it’s wheels. Needless to say, I have sent all three back for full refunds. Meanwhile, I have purchased these same locos from Kato and they run perfectly. I had to sacrifice sound, but that’s ok.
The main problems I had were mostly related to CV settings. The BLI locomotive I have now runs "ok". The derailments around curves was a problem for me as well, due to BLI's short couplers. I solved that by installing longer couplers on the locomotive. The Kato locomotives just seem to work fine right out of the box, and the nice thing is, you can install your own sound decoders if you choose. Thanks for watching!
I just sent back a new Broadway PA because it was broken out of the box. The replacement runs great Broadway better fix their quality control. If Kato came with sound for a good price I wouldn't bother with Broadway
Yeah, that's the thing, Kato doesn't put sound in at the factory, so I usually end up getting them at my local store, sometimes they put sound in then sell them.
I got a PRR T1 4-4-4-4 it runs great! the only flaw I can see is your track has to be really clean or the whole thing goes into a restart with every little speck of dirt. Really don't see the need for the flywheel it never gets the chance to be useful!!
I'd love to see a comparison review of a Broadway Limited vs. Scale Trains Loco's. Not fair comparing Kato's running ability to anyone else. I always felt that I could pour cement on the tracks of my layout and my Kato's would run just fine. (OK that's a slight exaggeration). Lets just say I haven't found a track condition that has slowed down any of my Kato's.
Nice review Brian (me HO)....I’ve got a few BLI’s...so far so good....what I don’t like is the function set up (like start up sequence) doesn’t match other mfg’s like Genesis, Scale Trains, Bowser, etc....haven’t looked into re-mapping CV’s yet....focused mainly only layout building
God dam i just bought a BLI 70 ace so to hear this and all your comment is disappointing to say the least, but today my arthritic finger dropped it to the ground, so when i put it back together it may work ok LOL
I am an HO scale modeler and love KATO ho scale locomotives. As I know KATO caters to N scale, you just can't beat the the KATO running gear. BLI is more cost, more detail, and ok, but has issues with everything
What do you think about the BWL after making this? If you made the BWL run better, what did you do? Most important, can they run well together? Please let us know, or just me. Thank you.
Thanks for doing this video :) Ever more expensive models and ever more complicated and expensive digital effects do nothing for me but put this hobby out of reach. At 58 years old you may call me a fuddy-duddy, but these are TOYS, and first and foremost they have to securely go around the layout and pull a train up a hill! N-scale, especially the formerly really cruddy US-models, has come a long way, and for US models Kato is tops and surprisingly affordable. I refuse to even look at used US contracted models, since I have a small stash of useless junk from the 80s and 90s myself and hate Bachmann for sure. Current and recent Broadway Limited was already off my list due to its prices, and now it is off for sure. I don't need sound, because that plays in my head. I do not want super fine detail, because in N-Scale you don''t see it unless you wear magnifying goggles, but that one time in a year when the model takes a drop off that track at the edge, you panic when it hits the floor. A super fine model with tiny bits is far more likely to break than a cheaper model that is still good enough for the scale, but the cheaper work horse costs less than half and will not take damage. As for running them, wheel sets make a crucial difference, with conical flanges a must, and overdone fine-scale a no-no. New equipment is quite good with its wheels, but some get too fine there too. Old stuff is out though. I was very disappointed with my over 30 year old box of US trains derailing at every switch (straight and flat over-sized pizza-cutter wheel flanges), while my even older German models sailed right through. But my 2011 edition Kato EMD E9A (UP #944) had no problems, and it once was a sale special for about 60 bucks, and the new DCC friendly version is still available for under USD100! For the price of one BLI (Broadway Limited Imports) A-B set (can run well over 300 bucks and only ONE unit is powered!), I was able to get both the Olympian Hiawatha and the City Of Los Angeles passenger-car sets on some super sales this year. My comparatively cheap analogue Kato locomotives drag them up my torturous 8% mountain slopes without any wheel slip. The sets are Milwaukee FP7 A-B-A, with all three powered for about 200 bucks and UP EMD E9A/E9B both powered for about 160 dollars, so both have 12 powered axles with a lot of weight for outright ridiculous pulling power! I will add another E9A for the UP set as well later this year :) But even if I wanted to go digital (I have a control kit and a few locos that came with decoders), the decoders can be had for 25 bucks a pop and adding sound can be done cheaply too. Any which way you look at it, BLI is just too expensive! BLI also sacrifices ballast for sound and thus pulling power is reduced (and maybe that is the cause for your derailments?), which is an expensive trade-off to get less operational practicality and less of a good toy at two to three times the price with no-power dummies that just look pretty. Nope.
Great points, Owen. The interesting thing is that even though Kato locomotives don't ship with sound, some shops will add the decoders, or I could add sound myself fairly economically, as you stated. Then at least I would have a reliable, tough locomotive for a decent price. Thanks for watching!
Although I have two sound Broadway limited engines, one with factory installed mars lights, can’t beat the reliability of Kato. I found disassembly to not be intuitive as Kato.
i have rolling thunder kit so i buy the bli locoes, i bought the kit 1st off, but forot to buy wood for my layout, so i used an old antigue bed that was semi broken it worked till i got my woodland scenics racks for scenic ridge and the kit, oh my i oofed up didnt i but it woirked
I have both Broadway and Kato locomotives, I will never purchase another Broadway limited locomotive. I have 4 BL locos and 4 Kato, Kato work and the BL do not. If you want one for display go with the Broadway Limited, if you want to run model trains purchase the Kato.
Paragon3 was a complete failure for BLI try comparing it with the Paragon4 version. I myself sold my Kato SD70ACe heritage unit Missouri Pacific to the BLI’s Paragon4 version. Not only was the BLI model more detailed than Kato’s but the sound and performance was also better than Kato’s FYI I dropped a Digitrax sound decoder in the Kato’s version. Bottom line is that I turned around and sold the Kato model on eBay.
Hola Brian, me parece que no es una gran comparación. Kato es una marca extraordinaria que se ve muy bienpor fuera pero además, mecanicamente funciona muy bien. Además, su procedencia japonesa-americana ofrece un producto a nivel mundial. BLI, se ve bien por fuera, pero lo demás es sólo una gran ilusión. Un decodificador defectuoso que no permite un funcionar continuo, una mecánica que no logra superarlo y un origen de procedencia que creo, no conversa con su valor de venta.....
I have 4 BLIho scale steam engines I've had trouble with 3 out of the 4 . My 484 D& H I've sent back once and it never ran correct since Ive had it . My ATLA/KATO n scale enigma have always run good. My best n scale enigma is a bachman steam engine runs very quite and runs very smooth. Il never buy another BLI engine
Good review i bought a BLI sd70ace to go with my cn rapido dash 8 cms I regret it I sent it back to BLI they said or will be sent back in 11 or 12 weeks and that was 2 weeks ago from today.. Sorry to say this but BLI has some issues and they are not listening to customers. They should stop using their own decoders and switch to ESU or someone else..
A looker, not a worker? I've owned Kato, Atlas, Bachmann, Life-Like, Intermountain, Broadway Limited, along with some very old Rivarossi / Con-Cor, & Rapido. The Intermountain and Broadway Limited were finely detailed. They didn't run as good as they looked. The only model I disliked more were some of the Bachmann engines that had split gear issues. My recommendation is, Broadway Limited makes a nice static model, but it's frustrating to run.
Exactly, Michael! That's a great way to say it. I've always been a little harsh on BLI because of my lemon, but the truth is it runs, just not very well. On the other hand, it sure looks nice sitting there!
I bought a BL N Scale Amtrak E8 a few years ago. Never again, a complete piece of crap. It looked beautiful but never ran right. In contrast, my Kato locomotives have always run like Swiss watches. Maybe not as detailed, but bulletproof runners. I will always pick performance over fine details.
I heartily agree. I have my BLI basically running now, but it's just not anywhere near as good as my Katos. I'm wondering if the BLI Paragon 4s are any better...Hmmm...
That's the rub of it though - The BLI (in my case) actually cost the same if not more than my Kato, but it also has a sound decoder where the Kato does not.
I found the same thing with my BLI CP SD40-2 high nose. Does the same thing the trucks their is something wrong can not figure it out. Like they are stiff in the truck frame. Kato, Atlas, Athearn, Bauchman, run smooth. The BLI and only this engine is like stiff legged. Comes to a elevated curve ( Kato double track main) the engine shake's. Sometimes derails. Nice engine is a little bit taller than my other SD40-2 's and my CSX Scale train's Rivet counter SD40-3. I have several engines from BLi but this one I just got is disappointing. At first the engine would not start up. It will not move unless the prime mover sound is started up. That is a first. The engine is not very loud. The sound is hard to change the volume. And no number boards lighted. Very disappointed. The ditch light's work proto typical. Sorta kinda. When the engine stops. This engine only. The lights do not dim. I am going to have to see if this engine can be fixed. It will pull anything you latch up to it. The coupler. Is typical magna matic coupler. Sometimes you have to fight it to latch up🤔🥴😣😞I have more Scale train's and Athearn even a steam ordered from BLI hoping that this engine work's like my other engine's. Not like the CP unit 🤔🥴😣😞🥴🤔
BLI shells are just amazing (only Scale Trains is better in quality of shell) the details are much closer to the real counterpart. Kato shells are "close enough" and are good, only under a camera will you really notice the difference or if they are sitting still (with N scale, are you REALLY going to see the difference when its moving?). Running wise, KATO is better and more forgiving for dirty track, BLI is less forgiving in that regard but will run just about as good as a KATO once it breaks in some (BLI also have had some QC issues with some runs of certain locomotives too). Your coupler issue is easy to resolve by putting a Medium Shank instead of the default Short Shank in.
That Orange paint on the Broadway Limited towards the rear side vents looks supper thick and takes away from the model. Kato, in my opinion is superior.
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
Nice honest review. Can’t beat a Kato N-scale locomotive for overall durability and reliability.
I'm with you on that!
@@brianpagemodeltrains Same here, I have a Special Edition C50 Steam Locomotive instead though. As expected foe a Japanese built model.
@@kevwebb2637 - Very cool!
Facts
Had two broadway loco, one was good and the second was not so good, same engine! The sounds were tuned way too low on the second one and they won’t tell you how to change them, as they are more difficult to get to them other sound cards! Also noted Kato runs better and have less problems on the track! Right on target on this review. I do have a broadway ltd steam engine that works very well including the sound
Kato is superior, they are the best running n-scale locos. Amazing that they don't cost more than they do, honestly.
I think you're right, but I'm going to keep working on the BLI and see what happens.
Betcha they are on line.
I didn’t think another person who enjoys both motocross and model trains existed but here you are 😂 also agreed that kato is far superior to anything
@@colbymclellan131 dude!! did we just become best friends?? lol
@@colbymclellan131 Not sure about motocross!
Great honest review. I have had the same experience with Broadway Limited needing a lot of work and tuning to get it up to the operating standard of Kato. Broadway Limited is great for selling the sizzle, but their steak leaves a lot to be desired.
Exactly, DadCooks! I'm still working with my BLI, we'll see what happens.
@@brianpagemodeltrains Sorry, but neither I nor my son has found any magic all-inclusive solution(s) so I'll be watching for a "breakthrough".
No need for roasting. Great job.. congrats on the new engine. Keep us updating on the adjustments. Like ur aviator picture and name change.
Thank Rick, will do.
I just got my BLI ES44 this weekend... and, it runs perfectly right out of the box. Slow speed is tie-by-tie at speed set "1". No problems with couplers either. It's possible you got a 'lemon', but mine is a really great runner. And, yes I have a number of Kato's as well and they are good loco's no doubt.
Yeah, I think mine will eventually be ok with a little attention.
All of my N scale locomotives are Kato. I have 3 Amtrak Genesis P42 locomotives I rotate with my Amtrak Superliner I call the Coast Starlight, a Southern Pacific GS4 Lima 4-8-4 in Daylight colors that is my excursion train pulling the 10 car Morning Daylight set, all are Kato & the EMD SDP40F in the Yellow & blue Santa Fe Warbonnet which also a Kato which is my freight locomotive. In a few weeks I will pick up my Southern Pacific EMD SD70M number 9804 & it is a Kato locomotive. I’m very satisfied with my Kato locomotives & I have now 56 freight cars & 2 cabooses for my N scale model railroad on a temporary layout which is the Pacific West Coast Model railroad. The review is nice, informative & it will help many model railroaders to decide what brand of locomotives to buy.
Thanks for watching! The BLI will be good after some tweaking, but the Kato is rock solid out of the box.
Good video! I've had a few issues with some of my Katos. The first was decoder shortages on an SD70MAC. No one could make it work without shorting out the decoder. It's now a shelf queen. The other I still haven't solved and that is one of my GS-4's does a momentary stall in the curves (15" minimum). It does it on my home layout and on the club layout. I have been more fortunate than others with the BLI locos. I have two AC6000's that run perfectly, a 4-6-2 that so far has been prefect, an F3AB set that has been perfect, but that first run of F7's was a nightmare! I have never had a single issue with any of my Atlas locomotives (post 1990 models). They have all performed perfectly.
I'm glad you have not been victimized by BLI. The Kato problems I'm surprised to hear about, I have several and they work great. I only have one BLI (in the video), so I can't see a pattern per se, but after that one, there won't be any more...
I burned out the engine of this locomotive, where can I find the spare part?
You should probably contact the manufacturer.
Great Review. We all try to avoid sounding like a fan boy but there is just no denying, after a few years into N scale, that you have KATO then you have everyone else. I know a lot will disagree with me but for myself I always choose the easiest to use most reliable locomotives I can find. I enjoy running them to chasing down the little things that aren't quite right. Even an Atlas workhorse gave me intermittent pickup issues. So again I appreciate your depth and honesty as I was almost lured after seeing and hearing those beautiful models at the factory booth at shows (remember them).
Yeah, the Katos are reliable. The BLI sure looks good, so I'm still tinkering with the speed settings.
I too have found that all sixteen of my Kato diesels run great right from the first. They will creep along at extremely slow speed all day long, rarely if ever stalling. My two Scale trains engines hum and whine as if trying to move, then lurch forward as I dial up speed. I really wish I could brag about American design and manufacturing but I'm afraid that Mr. KATO has us beat . I only run DC ... any suggestions ?
You could use JMRI to look at the CVs on the misbehaving locomotives and see if the slow speeds can be fine-tuned.
Nice review, I appreciate you trying to be as honest as you could. The looks of a Broadway limited is nice, but I will not buy them because their quality control is not the best. I'll take the work horse any day! Take care Brian! -ian
Thanks Ian - I agree, this was my first one.
An important review that teaches us (once again) that you can't judge a book by its cover. It truly is a pity that BL's superior detail isn't mated to equally outstanding mechanics. With a lot of work, a Kato's detail can be improved, but I don't think it will be easy to upgrade the BL's machanics. That said, if you do succeed, your readership will be thrilled to learn how you did it.
Yes, as soon as I have time to fiddle with the CVs, I'll video it. Thanks, Raphael!
Yes. Im in HO & have aways said, it is far better to have a perfectly running loco than to have a badly running loco, with plenty of details.Details can always be added.I have repowered several locos, in the past, but its the decoder,on DCC, that makes all the difference,these days.. I am asuming the BLI model has sound which makes it difficult to remedy the poor running problem.
Its not surprising. I purchased a Broadway limited e8. It also found all the imperfections on my track. It just wouldent run. However I found the trucks were not moving well. I did some filing and it runs great now. But we shouldent have to modify a brand new locomotive.
I definitely agree, shouldn't have to!
It's nice to have people like you give honest reviews to help people learn about different products and what is good and what is not so good you should not be roasted for that and Broadway limited should make sure that their models don't have these kind of problems for the kind of price that they demand for them that's my opinion I do like Broadway limited models I do have some of their models in HO scale and I enjoy them but I have had some also especially one of their cab forwards that was just nothing but a nightmare and was not a well-made engine
I agree, Scott. The physical locomotive itself is great, but the decoder is awful, at least mine is. They need some better quality control in the China factory.
Loved your comparison. I want to add my observations:
-no derailment issues here.
- performance and detailing same verdict.
-I ran into electronic trouble. Friends told me that BLI doesn't t work with railcom.
-the BLI gets pretty hot when it has to pull long trains which can lead to stalling (overheating protection?).
-So far IMO Scaletrains combines all the pros of both BLI and Kato.
I haven't figured out the ideal settings for the BLI.
- BLI problems less severe on steam engines.
Sounds like mine!
Wonderful reviews. I am gonna be new to this hobby. Looks like BL is not a bad brand details look Wonderful
Yes, the details are great, but the locomotive would have been much better if it had run correctly out of the box. It took a lot of work to get it functional, and it should have run right for the price.
I have 3 Broadway Limited CSX AC6000 and I’ve had the same problem with the couplers not only that, but the coupler height was completely off set and they came like that right out of the box. I also have Kato locomotives and I choose Kato over BLI anytime because I can rely on them I’ve never had any problems with them.
Yeah, I''ve heard that about BLI locomotives. Fortunately, I did not have a problem with coupler height, but then again, I swapped them out for some new Micro Trains couplers anyway. I love my Kato locomotives, they just run, that's it.
@@brianpagemodeltrains yes I agree I love my kato locomotives over the years since I’ve had them I’ve never had any problems with them other than I had a few that needed some fresh lubricants that’s about it and they ran as good as new. I recently ordered the Kato UP E9 and EB sets and the Kato UP the city of Los Angeles passenger set to match with it.
I've owned a BLI SW7 for a year. BLI has had it for three months of that time. I like the looks of their locos but their mechanical stuff is less than desirable.
I agree, Robert - And welcome aboard!
I too have an SW7 from BLI and I call it my problem child. It’s never run right and I’m lucky if it runs at all.
Thx for the video -- Beginning at 6:54 you mention the very thing I have found w/Broadway Limited also. I encounter track issues that don't seem to crop up w/other brands including KATO. I have wondered if it's a flange thing - looked to see if they are not as thick - not sure.
What I have found so far is that the wheels are spaced apart differently than other brands - It caused me a real problem especially in my Atlas turnouts.
I own 2 Broadway limited engines. A duplex and an e8. The e8 pair could only move two cars and the duplex had shorting issues causing it to be fixed twice. My big thing is Broadway engines are powerhogs and it’s hard to make lashups with them. Kato however is exactly as you said. Smooth and workhorses. I’ll probably continue to buy both but lean more towards kato
Yes, the BLI locomotives just make everything more difficult. I'm settling for just getting mine to run on its own.
@@brianpagemodeltrains the only kato engine i had trouble with is the gg1. Just always derails
Many variations on modern prototype locomotives,may have a BLI coupler box that doesn't allow couplers to move as far
That's true, Dave, but I also didn't really use the proper couplers either, which made them a bit short. Got it all sorted now though.
Glad I'm not the only one with CRS. Also, I've seen to many Broadway Limited locomotive run on the club layout to ever want to pay the money for one.
Yeah, at this point, I agree. Fortunately, I got a good price on mine, but it was still too much...
It's tough to beat a Kato for a good reliable driver. I hope the BLI works out better after you get it broken in. Maybe a longer shank coupler will fix the issue with the the rolling stock.
Thanks for watching! I agree, and I think eventually the BLI will be better.
Im almost done saving for a Kato N set, and a UP diesel, i could always tell Kato did it best!!
I have 4 BLI engines. 2 work pretty good, two were crap out of the box and are currently at BLI for repairs. They said it would be 6 to 8 months before I will see them again. Probably wont be buying anymore BLI power. I am happy with my 4 Kato's so far.
Wow, I hope you get them back sooner than that!
Did they give a reason for why it would take so long? I only ask because in February I sent my SD70ace to them for a replacement decoder and it was back within two weeks, I am in another country.
They did not. I suspected that I too need a replacement decoder. Maybe the one I need is not in stock. I don't know, it has been 3 months so far.
That’s BS, they should just send another loco. That isn’t fair of them to make you wait that long.
@@Wrathchildss Life isn't fair. It sucks but I'll wait, I have other things to mess with.
Great video! I always like to hear what other rr modelers have to say. I can't disagree about Katos, they are rock solid and run great. I have several Katos-none with sound, and 6 BLIs. I really like the BLI's so far, but Brian does bring up some great points. The main one being I do occasionally have problems with them running. Keeping the track clean seems to alleviate any issues. Most of the time they run great for me. A couple of mine also have some minor issues, like the ditch lights not being that bright. I do have to program the CVs some to get them to run exactly the way I want. Overall I think the BLIs have a bit more detail than the Katos. Katos that I have seen are more expensive, especially with sound. ESU I feel is top of the line for sound decoders, but the cost of Katos with sound is now in the $240 range, while the BLIs brand new are about $190-$200. I can get older BLI models for around $160. Is it worth the extra $$s for Kato? Up to the person buying them! I plan on installing some non-sound decoders in my older DC Kato units, but anything new I buy will probably be BLI.
Thanks for watching! I'm not totally against the BLI, just wish it was better off the shelf.
You deserve no flack. Everything you covered has happened to me too. Kato is SO much more reliable. Every one I’ve bought is perfect out of the box. All my BLI locos are hit or miss. Either the designs are bad or their QC is terrible. This video is very accurate.
Thanks - I'm hoping that the BLI will run better on my new Kato track layout, then I can fuss with the CVs again.
Different strokes Different folks were All Different in our own unique Way of model Railroading.
True...Thanks for watching!
Love Watching and Talking to All those Model Railroaders All Over the World.
Thanks for your review. I was considering buying a BL but the $$$ kept me from getting it. I love my Kato locos.
Thanks - Yes, the BLIs are good-looking, but I'm not impressed with their running out of the box.
As much money as Broadway limited locomotives are and with there amazing hype up behind there releases that thing should run flawless right out the box, that's why I stick with Kato and athearn
I bought my BLI out of ignorance, I didn't do enough homework. But it was at my local model store for a good price, and it gave me something to whine about in videos!
Hey Brian, I have a few Broadway Limited locomotives. Two of them ran great out of the box. One of them did the "lurching" thing initially, but I reset the CVs to factory default, and then made a few minor tweaks to the start and mid voltages, and also ran it in both directions for a few minutes at ~75%. After that it has run well for me. I ordered a 4th one and had to return it because the sound didn't work at all (however I think I was sent a used/returned one in that case, because it had some signs of use. So that is more on the place I bought it from. I know some people refuse to buy them because of quality control, but I am super happy with the ones I have, and the sound is really good for n-scale in my opinion.
I also have a bunch of KATO locos (include the ES44AC) and they are all super solid, but I have had a couple where I needed to "break them in" before they would run smoothly at low speeds.
Of course, I also have managed to get old bachmann and atlas stuff to run well by taking them apart completely and cleaning, adjusting and doing proper oiling. So many people way over oil their locos, most stuff I get used on ebay I immediately take apart clean and re-oil.
Anyway, thanks for the comparison, I am looking at getting a BLI ES44AC and I love the details and paint on the one you got.
Great idea Roy, how do you set the CVs back to defaults?
If you set CV8 to a value of 8, that will reset everything to factory settings. When you do that it will go back to being at address 3 if you changed it.
@@RoyEltham Yes, I made the address the engine number, but that's no problem. Thank you for the help, Roy, I'm going to try this.
nancy had bad luck with hers too ill look into kato, if i can find one with dcc installed, my blind eye dont help me with things, i do solder good tho mom tauht me, she was a repair person in a bomb fuse factory, till they moved and her back surgery failed too
I don't think I'll be going out of my way to get a BLI again.
Do this !!! Put any case cover n scale you like to KATO engine. BOOM !!! You have the best train for yourself.
Yeah, I wonder if the BLI shell would fit the Kato frame...Hmm...never tried!
I’m sure you will make it fit and and it will surprise you.
Kato is #1 and that’s just the way it is. 👍
True story, at least from my perspective right now!
Thanks for the review. I have a Kato ES44AC that I really like. I have a BLI F7 that runs very nicely, so maybe I just got lucky! 😁
I'm glad you got lucky with yours, it seems to be hit or miss. Thanks for watching!
at less than half the price, I prefer my kato f-units.
Scale Trains locos have the same coupler problems on tighter curves. Kato goes around anything. Their couplers have the greatest lateral movement of any coupler I’ve seen so far.
Since I swapped everything to Micro Trains couplers, they've all been working great.
i had the same prob with my sd40-2, till the plow fell off then it coupled perfectly, aslso clean ur wheels, i know its new but factorys have a haze that gets on stuff, like when you buy new windows ect, theres a gglaze that only comes off if you clean it good
That's true, I forgot about that, maybe it will run smoother. Thanks!
@@brianpagemodeltrains ty just trying to help as much as i can in my way with prasctical experience, i have twelve fox valley ondolas i cant use cuz i carved off the old ones lol, got three running but cant seem to find the rest of the couplers i bought oh my oh my
Plagued with issues on the Broadway limited , and for the Cash , all shoW an no go
KAto all the way , cant be beat and you can certainly hyper detail the Kato and have cash for Another KAto.... love the video ....
Yep - Although my BLI is actually working ok on Kato track, thank goodness. Thanks for watching!
What about N scale steam locomotives from Broadway Limited? Are those any good? Or do those have issues too?
I don't have any BLI steam locomotives, but I've heard from folks that do have them. They seem to have pretty good luck with the BLI steamers.
I love the video, I am a newb to the hobby. I am wondering how you knew the BLi would work on your track? I have a Kato track which is code 80. Was wondering how you knew it would work and if you know exactly what your train is coded to? How do I know which non Kato brand trains will work on my Kato track?
An N scale locomotive should actually work on any N scale track, the spacing between the rails should be the same. I have had situations where even a Kato locomotive didn't fit between the Kato rails quite right, but it's easy to pull or push the loco wheels to fit.
Great review Brian. Agreed the detail is superior to Kato but the katos do seem to be better runners.
I definitely agree, Sean. The BLI is a great looker, but the operation is lacking. We'll see after tweaking it some.
I like your detailed analysis of the two brands. I agree...Kato locos are superior to many brands especially Bachman. Great job Brian!
Thanks, Bruce! I haven't had any major problems with my Kato locomotives (knock on wood!)
I agree with you on the Broadway Limited engine. It looks good, but they have too many operational issues. I figured out that BLI locomotives have bad voltage regulators, bad pickup designs, small capacitors, and a ridiculously high starting voltage. My two AC6000s have the same issues. All their diesel locomotives have the same problems. Thankfully (for some reason) their steam locomotives don’t have any of the drawbacks (besides the starting voltage problem, but that isn’t an issue if you have enough terminals). I have no clue why steam locomotives don’t have the same issues, but I would bet it’s because they have a larger electrical footprint, different pickups, and larger capacitors.
I'm going to keep working with my BLI, maybe I'll be able to get it smoothed out.
Don’t feel so bad. I model in On30. I have 5 of the BLI On30 2-8-0 C-16s manufactured approximately in 2004. I also have a number of Bachman On30 2-8-0 C-19s. The Bachman 2-8-0s will go through track work mistakes. The BLI 2-8-0s will too, but will pronounce every flaw in the track work. That is forcing me to correct my track work because BLI was the only manufacturer to mass produce a C-16s. It was the only On30 loco BLI produced. Yet, I prefer to run those BLIs over the Bachman locos. The C-16s really pull, are heavy, and run smooth. The sound system in the BLIs are early DCC control and sound and will only play one sound at a time. Imagine the loco chuffing along, you press whistle button, the chuff stops while the whistle sounds off. The chuff comes back once you let go of the whistle. To fix that I am gutting the electronics. I’m installing the Tsunami 2200 steam decoders. I’m replacing the speakers with Soundtraxx Mega Bass and a regular speaker, both enclosed in the tender with the decoder. While it is apart I’m cleaning it up and lubing with Nano Oils. Nano Oils reduce the amps drawn by the loco. I have made a modification by swapping driver sets 3 and 4. Moving the flange driver set from axle position 4 to 3. I end up with real quiet smooth running loco with modern DCC and sound that can also take a tighter radius.
So, don’t be afraid to tune up your new BLI. Clean the wheels. Check your documentation about lubing the gears. It is in the C-16 documentation the comes with it. See if there is a minimum recommended radius for the BLI.
Sounds like you will have an awesome setup! I will try your suggestions, Thanks!
The Kato details on the bottom seem to be made of plastic but for the broadway limited does bottom contain a metal detail or just painted like metal?
The BLI has plastic and metal on the bottom, and the trucks are mostly made of plastic. It has actual wires for brake lines, however.
I’ve caught my share of flack over BLI locomotives as well I got 2 of there 2-8-2s in N scale about a year ago. I can’t fault the details. There grate. But the couplers I had problems with. Not a single wheel was in gauge making them derailment prone. And the jerking was nuts. Had to requarter all the drivers. I’m right there with you tho. When your spending BLI money. It better operate as good as it looks. Or it’s a waste as you can get 2 bull dog kato locomotives that will run like champs and haul loads like the real thing. Good luck in finding the problems with them. I sold mine to get some more kato locomotives in the end.
Yes, I had the same problem with the BLI diesel. I had to respace the wheels on the axles, and had to redo the speed tables on it through JMRI just to get it running halfway decently. It was a fun little project, but also an aggravation having spent the money and expecting a good locomotive. Thanks for watching!
Very informative video on both the Kato & Broadway Limited ES44 locomotives. I will at a future date by buying the Kato ES44 locomotive for my freight roster on my model railroad. My N scale model railroad 9 out of 12 locomotives are Kato. I’m satisified with Kato.
Do not have a Broadway Ltd Loco, but have some Kato's. I have the same issues with one of my Kato loco's. I think that every now and then you get one that has an issue or two. Doesn't make all of them bad, the other loco's run great.
I agree, that could happen with any brand. The BLIs, however, have known quality control issues, particularly with the Paragon 3 decoders.
I bought the bl Santa fe a &b, the train looked and sounded great. The locomotive would make 2 or 3 loops. then the only way to stop it was shut off power. After this the address would need to be reset, only to have same thing happen. Finally got bl to have me send it in. Got engine back after a long time tried to run it and the same thing happens. Put back in box, put back in the cabinet and say that was a waste of 250.00. But my Kato and atherns non sound dcc's run great but my bl will just sit in the junk pile, looking now for a couple of sound steamers that look and sound great but not bl, the trains are n scale.
Wow, sorry to hear that. I haven't had that problem, my BLI at least runs, just needs a lot of "smoothing out".
I agree, my BLI sd70ace keeps stopping and my track is perfect, but kato's run fine. I dont understand why it runs then a few seconds later the brake noise comes on and it stops. I checked all CV's and they are correct. I will be selling it at a loss im sure
Unfortunately true. Mine doesn't arbitrarily stop like that, but the motor in it is weak, and out of the box, the CVs were just plain wrong. But also, there are quality control issues with the Paragon 3 decoders. I hope the 4s are better.
I hope you have better luck with BWLI than I did. I bought 3 of them and 2 are nothing but either boat anchor or paperweight.
My one and only BLI locomotive is running "ok" now, but it took a lot of work and fiddling around to get it there.
I got a Kato emd sd70mac and I can say it is the best n scale unit I have. I've dropped it three times and it still runs like the day I got it
Yep, the Katos are tough as nails.
I own the Kato and it has been excellent except my only issue is the couplers are often difficult to attach my rolling stock. I also have a kato 70 ACe that runs great but couplers are not quite as touchy.
I do intend to replace the couplers for both with the kaydee couplers.
I also wish to upgrade my Kato locomotives to DCC.
I’ve purchased several other Atlas locomotives and my Kato performance is superior to the Atlas.
i love broadway limited, i have 2 ACe’s, and a es44. I love the detail on them, its almost as good as scaletrains. However, my ACe’s dont run too well on code 55 track. You have to widen the gauge of the wheels by a bit to get it better, but it still jumps over turnouts snd sometimes stops. Once i get powered turnouts it should be a lot better. My es44 runs fantastically however i had to widen its wheels too. The sound is great on BLI too. Another thing is my bli ACe’s are veryyyy picky about dirty track. Katos detail kinda sucks compared to newer brands, but katos still run flawlessly. They’re quiet and are smooth. Anyway, the BLI es44s are great, and the ACe’s are mediocre, but both have great detail.
Yes, I had to pry the wheels out a bit wider also. I love the details on the BLI also, I hope I can get this one running smoother.
I'm curious, what couplers did the Kato come with? I have some Kato rolling stock and they couple to themselves well enough, but give me problems with everything else. I had to physically modify them to work with my MTL coupler stock.
Yea I know what you mean I think kato is there own style of coupler but Bachman will hook up to them but ya gotta be patient and at my age I’ve lost that 40 years ago
The Katos come with their own Kato couplers. They are a little bit different than MTL couplers.
I haven't had any trouble with my Kato, both Broadway Limited International and Atheran have given me nothing but trouble.
I don't own any Athearn products, but I agree, the BLI caused me a lot of trouble. Kato is great out of the box.
I've bought alot of my stuff used off ebay. And when I get it in I "Get" to work on it. Thats have the fun to me. But, if I spent the money to buy a Broadway limited brand new and I "Had" to work on it right out of the box. I would be pretty upset about it.
Yep, that's what happened to me!
I must have lucked out I have the Norfolk Southern version of the Broadway limited and it's been great. Crawls along smooth I also have the kato equivalent and both are close but I do think the Broadway limited has a little better detail in my opinion.
People will always have an opinion but for me, I appreciate the comparison. My question is the price. Is there a big difference in price between the two brands?
In my experience so far, the BLIs are more generally more expensive.
Where the heck is your sun shades on the Broadway Limited.?
I run a lot of kato n scale and they are pure gold outta the box not one issue but like you having trouble with the Broadway limited I’ve got the same problem like you with an atlas I’ve got brand new identical problems that you have so know I don’t feel that alone
You're not alone at all, with some brands, there will be issues...
I’m an old O-scale modeler (Lionel DCC) who just completely switched to n-scale due to space issues. I sure wish I had seen your video BEFORE I purchased three BLI locos over the holidays. I have a Kato Unitrack layout, and I love the quality of the track and switches. I wanted to continue using DCC and sound, and so I was drawn to the BLI models. Unfortunately, ALL THREE had issues. The Light Mikado would short circuit the entire layout every time it rolled over a switch. The EMD SD70ace would derail the cars attached to it every time it went thru a curve. And finally, the EMD F7 a/b unit couldn’t pull 8 Kato bethgon cars up a 2% incline! It just sat there spinning it’s wheels. Needless to say, I have sent all three back for full refunds. Meanwhile, I have purchased these same locos from Kato and they run perfectly. I had to sacrifice sound, but that’s ok.
The main problems I had were mostly related to CV settings. The BLI locomotive I have now runs "ok". The derailments around curves was a problem for me as well, due to BLI's short couplers. I solved that by installing longer couplers on the locomotive. The Kato locomotives just seem to work fine right out of the box, and the nice thing is, you can install your own sound decoders if you choose. Thanks for watching!
I just sent back a new Broadway PA because it was broken out of the box. The replacement runs great Broadway better fix their quality control. If Kato came with sound for a good price I wouldn't bother with Broadway
Yeah, that's the thing, Kato doesn't put sound in at the factory, so I usually end up getting them at my local store, sometimes they put sound in then sell them.
I got a PRR T1 4-4-4-4 it runs great! the only flaw I can see is your track has to be really clean or the whole thing goes into a restart with every little speck of dirt. Really don't see the need for the flywheel it never gets the chance to be useful!!
Sounds sweet! I know what you mean, the BLIs are picky.
I'd love to see a comparison review of a Broadway Limited vs. Scale Trains Loco's. Not fair comparing Kato's running ability to anyone else. I always felt that I could pour cement on the tracks of my layout and my Kato's would run just fine. (OK that's a slight exaggeration). Lets just say I haven't found a track condition that has slowed down any of my Kato's.
LOL, maybe the Katos could run through cement! Yeah, I'd love to do more comparisons, but I don't have any Scale Trains.
Dose Kato have the duribalty for floor layout
I don't see why not, although N scale is a little small for that.
@@brianpagemodeltrains i know but i aready have a few n scale gps
Kato really is as you say is a work horse, I’ve heard this before about broadway locos
I love my Kato locomotives, no doubt. The BLI is working more or less, but it does not run as well as the Katos. Thanks for watching!
Nice review Brian (me HO)....I’ve got a few BLI’s...so far so good....what I don’t like is the function set up (like start up sequence) doesn’t match other mfg’s like Genesis, Scale Trains, Bowser, etc....haven’t looked into re-mapping CV’s yet....focused mainly only layout building
Yeah, I have to learn the CVs on this BLI the hard way now, see if I can smooth it out.
Nice Brian and thanks. Go NRA !!
Thanks sir, yes, we need the NRA and like organizations more than ever now. Thanks for subscribing, Mike, having you aboard is a real compliment!
@@brianpagemodeltrains I joined this year for the first time.
Mike
God dam i just bought a BLI 70 ace so to hear this and all your comment is disappointing to say the least, but today my arthritic finger dropped it to the ground, so when i put it back together it may work ok LOL
Maybe it will work better after a drop! I might have just gotten hold of a bad one - It's actually working better on my new layout with Kato track.
@@brianpagemodeltrains I am using Peco code 55, got it back together and nothing ????? so imaybe i should drop it again 😁
I am an HO scale modeler and love KATO ho scale locomotives. As I know KATO caters to N scale, you just can't beat the the KATO running gear. BLI is more cost, more detail, and ok, but has issues with everything
Exactly - My BLI is running just ok now, but it will never keep up with the Kato.
Great comparison! Good job!
Thanks!
In HO scale and N scale I haven't found another brand that is as reliable as the Katos.
I agree, Richard, thanks for watching!
Great review thanks for the honest opinion. Liked and subbed.
Thank you!
What do you think about the BWL after making this? If you made the BWL run better, what did you do? Most important, can they run well together? Please let us know, or just me. Thank you.
I like the Katos much better, but the BLI is running better after doing my track cleaning video. Still need to tweak some of the BLI's CVs though.
Thanks for doing this video :) Ever more expensive models and ever more complicated and expensive digital effects do nothing for me but put this hobby out of reach. At 58 years old you may call me a fuddy-duddy, but these are TOYS, and first and foremost they have to securely go around the layout and pull a train up a hill!
N-scale, especially the formerly really cruddy US-models, has come a long way, and for US models Kato is tops and surprisingly affordable. I refuse to even look at used US contracted models, since I have a small stash of useless junk from the 80s and 90s myself and hate Bachmann for sure.
Current and recent Broadway Limited was already off my list due to its prices, and now it is off for sure. I don't need sound, because that plays in my head. I do not want super fine detail, because in N-Scale you don''t see it unless you wear magnifying goggles, but that one time in a year when the model takes a drop off that track at the edge, you panic when it hits the floor.
A super fine model with tiny bits is far more likely to break than a cheaper model that is still good enough for the scale, but the cheaper work horse costs less than half and will not take damage.
As for running them, wheel sets make a crucial difference, with conical flanges a must, and overdone fine-scale a no-no.
New equipment is quite good with its wheels, but some get too fine there too. Old stuff is out though. I was very disappointed with my over 30 year old box of US trains derailing at every switch (straight and flat over-sized pizza-cutter wheel flanges), while my even older German models sailed right through.
But my 2011 edition Kato EMD E9A (UP #944) had no problems, and it once was a sale special for about 60 bucks, and the new DCC friendly version is still available for under USD100!
For the price of one BLI (Broadway Limited Imports) A-B set (can run well over 300 bucks and only ONE unit is powered!), I was able to get both the Olympian Hiawatha and the City Of Los Angeles passenger-car sets on some super sales this year. My comparatively cheap analogue Kato locomotives drag them up my torturous 8% mountain slopes without any wheel slip. The sets are Milwaukee FP7 A-B-A, with all three powered for about 200 bucks and UP EMD E9A/E9B both powered for about 160 dollars, so both have 12 powered axles with a lot of weight for outright ridiculous pulling power! I will add another E9A for the UP set as well later this year :) But even if I wanted to go digital (I have a control kit and a few locos that came with decoders), the decoders can be had for 25 bucks a pop and adding sound can be done cheaply too. Any which way you look at it, BLI is just too expensive!
BLI also sacrifices ballast for sound and thus pulling power is reduced (and maybe that is the cause for your derailments?), which is an expensive trade-off to get less operational practicality and less of a good toy at two to three times the price with no-power dummies that just look pretty. Nope.
Great points, Owen. The interesting thing is that even though Kato locomotives don't ship with sound, some shops will add the decoders, or I could add sound myself fairly economically, as you stated. Then at least I would have a reliable, tough locomotive for a decent price. Thanks for watching!
You might get a manufacturer to make a locomotive run ‘AS’ good as a ‘KATO’ but, NOT better. 👽
I agree!
Although I have two sound Broadway limited engines, one with factory installed mars lights, can’t beat the reliability of Kato. I found disassembly to not be intuitive as Kato.
Thanks for watching - I agree, although I have the BLI running pretty well now. It took a lot of work with JMRI to get it going correctly.
People to say the same thing about drinking ouzo, but they are they are again next weekend. 🤪
Brian do you know what the difference in weight is between the two ?
Well, according to my little food scale, the Kato weighs in at 4.5 ounces, the BLI is 4 ounces. They both seem heavier than that when I hold them.
I wonder if that .5 difference is enough to make it derail more ?
It's possible, but I have some rough spots in my original track laying that I'm fixing, so that should help.
i have rolling thunder kit so i buy the bli locoes, i bought the kit 1st off, but forot to buy wood for my layout, so i used an old antigue bed that was semi broken it worked till i got my woodland scenics racks for scenic ridge and the kit, oh my i oofed up didnt i but it woirked
I hear the Rolling Thunder makes some pretty good bass sounds.
I have both Broadway and Kato locomotives, I will never purchase another Broadway limited locomotive. I have 4 BL locos and 4 Kato, Kato work and the BL do not. If you want one for display go with the Broadway Limited, if you want to run model trains purchase the Kato.
I agree! Even though I have the BLI running now (sort of), it's not great, but looks pretty!
Paragon3 was a complete failure for BLI try comparing it with the Paragon4 version. I myself sold my Kato SD70ACe heritage unit Missouri Pacific to the BLI’s Paragon4 version. Not only was the BLI model more detailed than Kato’s but the sound and performance was also better than Kato’s FYI I dropped a Digitrax sound decoder in the Kato’s version. Bottom line is that I turned around and sold the Kato model on eBay.
Interesting to know - I don't have any Paragon 4, but I did hear they were better than the 3s.
Hola Brian, me parece que no es una gran comparación. Kato es una marca extraordinaria que se ve muy bienpor fuera pero además, mecanicamente funciona muy bien. Además, su procedencia japonesa-americana ofrece un producto a nivel mundial. BLI, se ve bien por fuera, pero lo demás es sólo una gran ilusión. Un decodificador defectuoso que no permite un funcionar continuo, una mecánica que no logra superarlo y un origen de procedencia que creo, no conversa con su valor de venta.....
I have 4 BLIho scale steam engines I've had trouble with 3 out of the 4 .
My 484 D& H I've sent back once and it never ran correct since Ive had it .
My ATLA/KATO n scale enigma have always run good.
My best n scale enigma is a bachman steam engine runs very quite and runs very smooth. Il never buy another BLI engine
Good review i bought a BLI sd70ace to go with my cn rapido dash 8 cms I regret it I sent it back to BLI they said or will be sent back in 11 or 12 weeks and that was 2 weeks ago from today.. Sorry to say this but BLI has some issues and they are not listening to customers. They should stop using their own decoders and switch to ESU or someone else..
I haven't contacted them, just figured to keep tweaking it until it works.
They use different springs on the couplers. I’ll take a KATO ALL day.
Me too - Except I've put MTL couplers on everything.
How bout pulling power?
As far as I can tell (so far) the Kato can out-pull just about any other brand.
A looker, not a worker? I've owned Kato, Atlas, Bachmann, Life-Like, Intermountain, Broadway Limited, along with some very old Rivarossi / Con-Cor, & Rapido. The Intermountain and Broadway Limited were finely detailed. They didn't run as good as they looked. The only model I disliked more were some of the Bachmann engines that had split gear issues.
My recommendation is, Broadway Limited makes a nice static model, but it's frustrating to run.
Exactly, Michael! That's a great way to say it. I've always been a little harsh on BLI because of my lemon, but the truth is it runs, just not very well. On the other hand, it sure looks nice sitting there!
I bought a BL N Scale Amtrak E8 a few years ago. Never again, a complete piece of crap. It looked beautiful but never ran right. In contrast, my Kato locomotives have always run like Swiss watches. Maybe not as detailed, but bulletproof runners. I will always pick performance over fine details.
I heartily agree. I have my BLI basically running now, but it's just not anywhere near as good as my Katos. I'm wondering if the BLI Paragon 4s are any better...Hmmm...
who makes broadway limited
Broadway Limited Imports is their own company, but I've heard that all their train equipment is made in China.
Now we know why the Kato cost more.
That's the rub of it though - The BLI (in my case) actually cost the same if not more than my Kato, but it also has a sound decoder where the Kato does not.
I found the same thing with my BLI CP SD40-2 high nose. Does the same thing the trucks their is something wrong can not figure it out. Like they are stiff in the truck frame. Kato, Atlas, Athearn, Bauchman, run smooth. The BLI and only this engine is like stiff legged. Comes to a elevated curve ( Kato double track main) the engine shake's. Sometimes derails. Nice engine is a little bit taller than my other SD40-2 's and my CSX Scale train's Rivet counter SD40-3. I have several engines from BLi but this one I just got is disappointing. At first the engine would not start up. It will not move unless the prime mover sound is started up. That is a first. The engine is not very loud. The sound is hard to change the volume. And no number boards lighted. Very disappointed. The ditch light's work proto typical. Sorta kinda. When the engine stops. This engine only. The lights do not dim. I am going to have to see if this engine can be fixed. It will pull anything you latch up to it. The coupler. Is typical magna matic coupler. Sometimes you have to fight it to latch up🤔🥴😣😞I have more Scale train's and Athearn even a steam ordered from BLI hoping that this engine work's like my other engine's. Not like the CP unit 🤔🥴😣😞🥴🤔
Sounds like you had even more troubles than I did - My BLI rolls ok, the wheels, lights and coupling are good, but the decoder is not reliable at all.
BLI shells are just amazing (only Scale Trains is better in quality of shell) the details are much closer to the real counterpart. Kato shells are "close enough" and are good, only under a camera will you really notice the difference or if they are sitting still (with N scale, are you REALLY going to see the difference when its moving?). Running wise, KATO is better and more forgiving for dirty track, BLI is less forgiving in that regard but will run just about as good as a KATO once it breaks in some (BLI also have had some QC issues with some runs of certain locomotives too).
Your coupler issue is easy to resolve by putting a Medium Shank instead of the default Short Shank in.
Thanks, good advice!
That Orange paint on the Broadway Limited towards the rear side vents looks supper thick and takes away from the model. Kato, in my opinion is superior.
Actually, if you were to look at it closely in person, it's not bad, but overall I agree the Kato is tougher and looks good as well.
I did not bother to test run a used kato engine when i bought it ! ! ! !
Hopefully with a new or used Kato locomotive, you don't have to! They seem to be quite reliable.
Say it like it Is People can’t handle the Truth Wow.
Yeah, I can only go by my own experience. Fortunately, since I re-did my layout with Kato track, the BLI is working better.
I mound out the kato is an es44DC not ac the broadway limited is the actual es44ac plus the kato has a big event but the broadway limited don't
Not sure I understand what you're saying there...
Kato is the best when it comes to N scale!
I agree, out of the box the Katos are better. But I hope to get the BLI up to par.
Scalstrains, Intermountain, and Rapido offer the same quality with better detail.
I got the ES44AC in kato but it’s CSX
Very cool!