*So THIS IS IT, our definition of craft beer:* Craft beer is a race to the top. It is brewed with the intention of putting flavour and process above cost. It can be innovative or traditional, served in any format, and does not have to come from an independent or small brewery - but it must not do damage to the industry’s reputation or any other brewery’s freedom to produce beer to the best of its ability. What do you think? Answers below!
@@PMason85 Well... unfortunately Harvey's have also campaigned to raise taxes for smaller breweries so within our definition they'd struggle, but the liquid itself and the intention is absolutely craft.
Too many words. I'd say it's all hype and the The Government Bureau for the Promotion of Oats is involved somewhere. All I know is UK beer was awful. We still have those awful beers which have somehow got worse but we now have a chance at beer which tastes of nice things and is pleasant to drink.
Somehow I just found your channel. Maybe it was erasing all previous searches and watch history then searching for beer content. Anyway, and I’m probably very late on this, the intent of the corporation is very important. The shelf space allotted to the really one huge corporations squeezes out everyone else. They are more concerned about putting others out of business than making really good beer. A local brew pub near me has grown significantly, but has maintained the heart and soul of being a craft brewery. That’s important. Love you your content!
Great vid. This really got me thinking not only about 'what is craft beer' but also about how I brew and what it means to me. My definition is somewhat lengthier but I think captures the spirit and my own approach. There has to be purpose behind the beer. The recipe has been crafted by the brewer to achieve the brewers goals. Every ingredient has been thought about, cared about, and is there for a reason. None of the reasons, goals, or purpose can include cost or mass market appeal - it’s about what the brewer wants, not the masses. The craft comes from the brewer, not the beer.
Love the idea of "Race to the Top" because it really sums up the idea of craft beer being about people making the best beer with their teams, their breweries and whatever they can, be it traditional styles or the most out-there creations. I think the idea of what a brewery does with their revenue in terms of looking out for people both in their teams and also their communities (customers, business partners) and being a force for good is really important as well. Great video as always chaps!
I think I like your view as I've tried to point out to people on Facebook groups just because a company is small and independent doesn't mean that are socially or environmentally responsible at all.. or care about there beer.. it's a case by case basis
I've got a new love and respect for Camden, after going to their Kentish town brewery and seeing that its pretty small and they still use it a lot and when they had production problems at their larger north London brewery they were brewing around the clock there. Also I have a mutual friend who's worked with AB inBev and they basically let Camden be Camden, they aren't that interested in changing them and are rather casual in their practices. Also the guys who work for Camden absolutely love beer and their brewery, that passion I wasn't expecting for such a big brewery - so they employ lots of people across London - there's lots of jobs behind every pint of Hells. Nowadays after reading and learning about proper lager, I really love finding well crafted lager and Camden Hells is that.
Would love to know when you guys are heading to Australia and try some of the great beers that are being produced here. We have a lot of great breweries here like Mountain Culture, Mr Banks, Bacchus, Deeds, Bracket, Fox, Range, Rocky Ridge, Shapeshifter and more! If you are ever in Brisbane I would be happy to show you around a few breweries and open up the beer fridge for you guys
Such a fun (but also frustrating) question. For me, scale of production definitely does factor in, but then I got thinking, "but wait, what if a large brewery does do an ostensibly 'experimental' beer?" Then Brad mentioned the "mindset" thing, which I think really puts things into perspective. In Canada we have both Sam Adams lager and Punk IPA in most liquor stores, both in the "international" section of the beer aisle. However, Boston Beer Company doesn't "feel" craft to me, even though they do produce seasonals, because their primary focus is just pumping out Sam Adams lager, and that's where they started. The variants, etc. are an afterthought. Inversely, Brewdog still "feels" craft to me, even with their massive scale at this point, because they started with the intention of being a craft brewery, and despite their massive growth, experimentation has remained integral to what they do. The "mindset" approach also helps when it comes to beers or breweries that are owned by larger organizations. It's easy to say, "there's no way anything owned by AB InBev is craft," but then you realize... that includes Goose Island Bourbon Country Stout. But the mindset approaching Bourbon County Stout however, is massively different than the one approaching Budweiser or even Goose Island IPA for that matter, so it still feels right to call Bourbon County Stout "craft." For me at least. But that brings up another layer, as I'm basically saying a beer can be craft even if the brewery isn't, upon which, looping back to the first two breweries mentioned, perhaps Sam Adams seasonals actually are craft, and perhaps Punk IPA isn't? Great vid lads!
This last para is where our definition does struggle a bit I think. I feel the same about Goose Island IPA definitely not being, but Bourbon County maybe being craft. Nightmare.
See it's one of those things. I think about this a lot. I prioritize independent craft beer over others in my purchasing but then it's like okay... Sam Adams have the independent label and yet they're absolutely massive. It's so murky of a question.
I think I agree that it's useful to have other categories to put breweries and beer into. Artisan is a good one. I'd say Saint Mars of the Desert is an artisan craft brewery. I think small- batch is a useful term. Independently owned is too. I'd also like to know where my beer is from so Locally brewed is also useful. These aren't needed for craft beer but if none are there then i begin to question if it is craft. Perhaps a diagnostic approach is useful: if the brewery can be said to have 2/3 or more of these characteristics then it is craft.
I'd agree with the intention of putting flavour and process above cost. Maybe even with showing a specific devotion to the craft itself, which you can sort of see imo with Camden Hells. My homebrew is Craft mainly due to the love put into it and I reckon that's definitely got to be a part of a Craft Beer Label!
Couldn't agree more with the point being made that craft brewing is about the brewer's mindset than simply the amount of beer a brewery brews. That being said, Camden Hells is still my favourite lager after trying it super fresh on tap somewhere in Camden years ago...
I always learn something from your videos. Today I learned that I'm an "artisan" brewer. I make ale on my stove with an 8 gallon enamel canning pot, the best ingredients, no thought to cost - ingredients, packaging or labor - and I give my beer for free to people I deem worthy. 😁 FFS, enough with labeling everything
This is easy to say as someone who understands beer. We define things for those who do not understand, so they have a foothold and some context. It is a vital and very human thing to do.
@@papalegba6796 you seem to have misunderstood the key takeaway from this video by conflating "good" with "craft". They are not the same - there are many great non craft beers and many bad craft ones. TT make fantastic beer, but their anti-small-brewer stance puts them at odds with craft breweries.
I always look for the cask beer when I go to a new brewery,I guess there’s a cask only brewery here in NY in the finger lakes region only a few hours from Syracuse NY.I have been there yet sadly !
Very interesting, as an Austrian I have never heard about Camden or Timothy Taylor. Duvel is available in every beer shop and sometimes even in huge supermarkets, so I would have considered Duvel as the only macro beer out of these.
Great discussion! Thanks, guys. I just visited The Alchemist a week ago on vacation and sampled their just-released "Crusher." Holy cow, what an experience! Sitting with friends on the mountain-view field out back, I thanked John Kimmich for his... craft.
Very interesting. My homebrew is definitely 'craft' (and artisan!!) I think where it really gets tricky is at the borderline - those discussions that decide whether Tim Taylor's Landlord are in or out, or whether Pilsner Urquell is craft or not will help refine the definition! You could easily repeat the video with a few core craft beers and then some borderline tipples. Keep it coming guys!!
Hi Brad, Nik from Brandons in Beckenham. Love the video. Just wondering if there is room for a different subcategory. Maybe a brewery like Timothy Taylor is a legacy craft brewery, consistent, maybe automated, largish scale but committed to flavour and quality over profit as well as continuing the traditions that brought us to the experimental, small craft breweries who are pushing the boundaries.
Very interesting vid, as always! Pete Brown wrote an excellent book on the idea of "craft beer" in 2020 (titled "Craft: An Argument"); He studies the concept of craft in other areas and goes through the evolution of "craft beer" over time (while trying to define the term). Wonderful book.
Great discussion. Really interesting. One of the larger brewers that I can't decide whether it meets your definition or not is Goose Island. Large volume, they do experiment, they do collab, but owned by Anheuser-Busch.
I think goose are one of those odd ones who aren't craft due to ownership behavious and drop in quality (sadly the IPA is a shadow of its former self) but it does make some amazing beer still
I have this issue as well. Terrapin Beer Co., A local treasure, was acquired by Miller a few years back and although the quality hasn't changed, it seems like they've been pretty hands off and the newer experimental stuff is still rolling out with some regularity... Can we call it craft? I lean towards not. Their Luau is still one of my favorite IPAs but I feel blah about spending the money on it now.
Admirable attempt at nailing down an arguably impossible definition, and I think you got there. In my mind, there are five things that define "craft" for me: 1) Product is more important that price/profit, although profit plays a role, as it should for any brewery. 2) Production is either experimental/playful or attempts to innovate on traditional beer styles. Beer where you can almost taste the brewer themselves. 3) Reception/intended audience is important; craft beer is aimed at people who enjoy the actual taste and feel of the beer, not just the effect of the alcohol. 4) Inclusion, culture and cooperation/collaboration at the brewery level, although we're getting into territory that can't immediately be seen, when buying a pint at the pub. 5) It might be a nitpick, but visual style: you just can't disconnect the can/bottle art from the experience of the beer. If care has been given to the visual aesthetic of the beer, then it probably also has been to the liquid inside the bottle. But this is where we go from "craft" to "art", and it matters the least IMO. In Denmark, stores sometimes market "specialøl", basically special beer (meaning "not American or Euro Lagers"), but they usually fall flat on at least two or three of the above criteria. Again, thanks for having an informed discussion. We've come to expect that from you two.
I always appreciated your including the term ethical in your previous definitions and I think that’s at the core of craft. When I hear a “race to the top” I don’t necessarily think craft though. I don’t think craft has to mean “the best” because that’s so subjective, but good a quality product with good practices to make it for your good customer base sounds good to me.
Good vid. How would you classify Wicked Weed in Asheville, NC. Part of a giant machine, now. But, creatively, they have a strong heritage - perhaps the craftiest of crafts in the US pre-acquisition.
Great video guys, and very interesting reading all the comments. Some future video ideas; Q&A about yourselfs and the channel, Q&A about beer (styles, history, brewing, politics etc), and a reaction type video where you go back and watch some of the older videos you have made, what have changed over the years, have you changed your mind about some things, how much more knowledge do you hahe now, videoquality, life update etc. I think that would be both interesting and fun for us watching and you guys making it. Keep up the great work lads🙌🏼🍻
@@TheCraftBeerChannel yes I have noticed, it’s great, but often I can’t make it in time, so for the most part I watch «normal» videos when I have the time to sit back and enjoy some CBC content🙌🏼
Great video guys - loved watching you chew (and drink) through all of those considerations! Brewing question @Jonny - what was that connector you had on the top of the GF conical that enabled you to connect the gas ball lock disconnect? That looks super useful! Cheers
I love that definition; think it provides a really clear way to differentiate craft beer from macro beer that has been brewed exclusively for profit. The only slight snag, is the final part about it not being damaging for the industry as that is more applicable at the brewery level than to the beer itself. A brewery that has done some slightly nefarious things (like pushing for a tax hike for smaller brewers) can still produce a beer that meets the first part of the definition. It's difficult though as you definitely don't want to be condoning those practices as part of the craft beer industry.
@@papalegba6796 it's the same principle as income tax. As you start earning more, you pay more tax. It's the only way that those with less income can survive, whilst still allowing for enough tax to be generated to pay for everything the country needs. Campaigning for higher tax rates for smaller brewers makes it much harder for them to survive. This in turn strengthens the position of the bigger breweries as there is less competition. Can't really comment much on the contract brewing loopholes as I simply don't know enough about it.
Great stuff. As a Californian, I often wonder: Where does Anchor Brewing (San Francisco) fall into this? Their Liberty Ale was on the market about a decade before Sierra Nevada, but the brewery itself was a century old at that point. Can centuries-old brewery revamp their entire process (and recipes) to become “craft”?
I like the idea of it being a mindset and a process rather than anything concrete and measurable. It's about the spirit within the producer and the intention behind the manufacture, not about styles or history or batch size or anything else. That's an explainable thought that, like art, doesn't put anything into a box and lets people come to their own conclusions whilst always being reasonably correct.
@@papalegba6796 I don't know what comment you thought you were responding to, my comment has nothing to do with standards and regulations, just an intentionally nebulous definition for a rather nebulous concept.
I think an important thing an important thing that you were so close to hinting at is the sense of community. Like that Verdant x Floc DIPA, these are essentially competitors working together to learn from each other and make something good. A Budweiser x Heineken collab would never happen
I'm pretty sure that the Great Lakes Brewing Company based out of Cleveland is about as old as Sierra Nevada, and it's still owned by the Conway family. But they are, admittedly, more of a regional brewery. If you can get Great Lakes beers overseas, I'd recommend the Dortmunder Gold and the Edmund Fitzgerald Porter.
The difficult ones for me are beers like Gamma Ray and Faith, which were amazing and expensive and are now still very good and pretty cheap in supermarkets. I guess the same category as Sierra Nevada and Brewdog. Those breweries all do lots of smaller batch beers which certainly are craft but harder to say with the main beer.
I think Craft Beer can be broadly defined as an aesthetic. Visual aesthetics through artwork and branding, adhering to or experimenting with styles and flavour, and allusions towards independent spirit. I think its valid, but a harder task to try define beer procedurally either through the making of, or exploiting of the beer because you arrive into murky subjective waters. So why not head subjective straight away and define craft beer as a set of products that share aesthetics, like how we define styles of paintings or music. Just some thoughts, love the channel!
It's like trying to draw the north/south divide line, some things are obviously craft, some things are obviously not and then there's that grey area in the middle some locals insist is called the midlands, basically Duvel is Leicester.
My gateway was Brewdog Punk IPA. Whatever they are now i see them as the brewery that amplified the scene massively by looking at was getting done in California. But it was a point in time where first trying that floral tropical (ish) taste id just never tried id guess 2015-16.
Always entertaining watching you two getting gently pissed and profound! I largely agree as well. As a dyed in the wool cask drinker, when craft happened I genuinely thought the term was modern hipster language for cask! Then I realised the cultural difference, which I think is more perception than fact. As an all-grain home brewer, I DO labour over my product but I have nothing against mechanised brewing if it's done with excellent ingredients to a delicious recipe. My favourite take on this very subject is Pete Brown's book Craft: An argument. Broadly in agreement with the points made here and expanding on the meaning of craft, besides brewing.
@@papalegba6796 A bit of a generalization don't you think? There are excellent cask beers and excellent craft beers. Equally there are terrible versions of both as well. I'm not so sure it's a simple thing either. If you brew, you'll realise it's a tightly controlled process with an equally complex and delicious outcome.
I was thinking if I knew any brewery that's been sold to big companies and has losts its way, but I couldn't remember anything. Just Ballast Point. Do you know any breweries that have had those kind of problems? I'd love to watch a video about that! Cheers from Chile.
Free State Brewery in Lawrence, KS established back in 1989 still make some of the beers they started out with. Back in the day they were a brew pub, now they have a more industrial brewery where they make most of their beers. The quality is still there and the beers taste like I remembered them. So I agree, size does not matter. Mikkeller and your buddies Omnipollo used to make their beers industrially at other brewers, now that is proof it is not defined by lack of automation either. To me craft is creativity and respect for quality ingredients.
Merch suggestion: a poster of a map based on this video, with some beers as examples, such as Sierra Nevada in “the ancient forest of craft” or Timothy Taylor in “murky swamp of controversy”. As for the content, it’s not the first time I hear this question but it’s the first time when both people are sober(ish?), do not raise their voice along the way, and don’t end the argument with threats of fistfights, although who knows what happens in the Brewdio when the cameras are off!
My understanding Craft Beer was a phrase that originally described a small brewery in North America, now the phrase is used with increasing frequency so much the meaning is being diluted.
I’d definitely refer to breweries like Timmy Taylor’s as ‘trad’ rather than craft, but definitely think their independence/quality sets them apart from macro. I guess what I’m getting at is - is it only craft or macro, or are there more categories?
I don't think the term 'craft' can be fixed in time for a particular beer, it's fluid. The closer the involvement of the brewing team with the development of the beer they're brewing, the more Craft that beer is.
The definition of Craft is 'Something made with skill and experience' so Craft beer would be any that is brewed using skill and experience !! maybe craft is not the best term to describe what we want cover here ? Dynamic Innovative Race To Top !!
This is really a question with nothing black or white. My favourite, which I struggle a lot with is the Swedish Gotlands Bryggeri on the island of Gotland (surprise...). A small brewery in the medieval town of Visby. They make some interesting beers (Tea-infused ale, blueberry IPA etc...) and has helped the brewing community on the island a lot. They would tick all boxes on being a craft brewery. However they are owned by the big bad guy and 95% of the production (the big sellers) is made on the mainland on other breweries. Can a brewery be craft and some BUT not all of their beers craft beers..? I need a beer to figure that out...
Its "funny" that here, in Brazil, you can buy Duvel at Ambev's owned marketplaces (websites, apps...). Ambev is the Brazilian "part" of AB Inbev. Looking from that perspective, we should move it to non-craft. Cheers!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel I don't know why this happens. they sell "smaller" brands but not the big ones, like Lagunitas (from the Heineken group). is something to look for since they have a brand that rivals Duvel: Victoria
So does the ingredients and quality of them mater? Does the diversity of styles that brewery produces mater? And does the intension from the breweries start to change the industry through a new beer style help define it as craft?
“Quality first beer, made by people who care about product, consumer and community”. I think this definition riffs on the same themes as CBC’s but in a pithier nutshell. In particular, I think this definition speaks well to the broadness of the church (beer style, serving method, process differences, target audience), allowing in the myriad of difference in ‘craft’, whilst also doing a good job of excluding a broad array of brewers that don’t meet the necessary criteria (Most macros are shit, thus failing on ‘product’; Timmy’s supports taxation change, thus failing on ‘community’ and so on). I also think this definition allows for dynamism; Beavertown once met the criteria but fell out after their abysmal sell-out, and this definition gives us a way to qualify why they no longer are (reduction in product quality, lack of care for community). This definition also does a good job of dealing with the independence issue, because a brewery that is owned by (or heavily invested in by) macros can’t be craft, because all large corporations fail on community (exploiting workers and destroying smaller competitors and the environment being key reasons).
Good discussion. Labelling and categorising things is always going to have grey areas and at the end of the day is subjective. You are never going to get everyone to sit down and thrash out at an agreed definition. To some degree it has become a marketing word just like your discussion on IPA. I would actually only class the first beer as craft. I would class Sierra Nevada, Duvel and Landlord as traditional due to the fact that the beers have stayed relatively the same over some time. Yes they were innovative at the time but then so was probably Heineken 🙂So I think there has to be a time perspective to the definition. My own personal definition of craft would be a brewery that pushes the boundaries of flavours and is contently inventive, which tends to mean smaller time-limited batches. One of my favourite "bigger" breweries who I would class as craft is Drygate.. They manage to have long standing fairly high quantity favourites, that can still be flavour challenging, that you can also get in supermarkets, as well as inventive small batches which you have to get online or in their tap room. On the other side of the grey area would be a local brewery to me is Castle Rock, who are just hanging in on the craft side but now just pushing into the traditional, as their inventiveness mellows. But then other local breweries like Neon Raptor and Black Iris are definite craft breweries. Funnily I think a lot of the beers that I see at craft festivals could probably be categorised as artisan 🙂I would agree the brewery must advance the sense of community and collaboration of the industry.
Fiiiiiinallly!! Delving into the argument of whether some of these old-school Germann & Belgian beers can be considered craft. I think in the case of those breweries that have sold out to the international beer corporations (Afligem to Heineken, etc), the obvious answer is no. But Duvel? Well, like Sierra Nevada they are still family-owned, and like Sierra Nevada they brew quality products, and they basically have the same annual output as Sierra Nevada too. But for them to be craft, do they have to be experimenting with newer styles also? I mean, they're making beers that probably would have been considered the best in the world prior to the American craft revolution (i.e. Schneider-Weisse). I've come up with the term "old-school craft" for these kinds of beers/breweries, but I'm open to other arguments too...
Really interesting topic and discussion. Personally I feel like craft is more about innovation on a smaller local scale. Obviously Miller-Coors or Annheuser Busch can make a craft style of beer but that doesn’t make them craft. But in the end you just have to ask yourself is it good beer? If so drink it and support the brewers. Cheers. 🍻
Counter point. Craft should 100% be tried to quality. A micro brewery who opens to just ride the IPA wave. Cheats the haze by use of flour etc... Doesn't clean the lines. Sells a known subpar product. Is more "Craft" than someone like Guinness who was the first brewery to own a microscope/have a yeast lab. Invented nitrogen dispensing. Stays 100% focused on quality of product and their yeast culture. Etc... No way. Craft to me is a mindset of quality, improvement, and innovation of product. Macros CAN produce a craft product. But so can smaller breweries. I don't think size should matter. But this is very much a separate art from artist view point. And not going to be a popular take on this channel haha. Cheers guys. Keep killing it!
I think it is important for most craft breweries to have something like a cheap light lager than can sell in some sort of volume just to get some income. Then go for the great stuff that we all enjoy which does have a much smaller market. (I would've loved to be able to get my hands on one of those Verdant beers in the video) Unfortunately not everyone can afford the equivalent of a 7 pound single beer. Especially in times where there is an economic downturn. Personally I will rather take 1 great beer than 4 mediocre ones as an example. I don't think the masses look at it the same as that. There are an upper price point where I believe you just wont sell any beer which moves over time with the economy and disposable income.
Well the Brewers Association defines it in part that way, along with some other elements but we don't think it's relevant at all. Especially in today's world where some of the best beers in the world are made at incredible scale.
Maybe a little, I just feel like applying labels of craft or not to Belgian breweries seems odd as I don't get the feeling they care. So can you be craft when your beer culture mentality doesn't really care? The others will 100% leverage power against craft breweries so I wouldn't call them craft. I think Sierra Nevada are craft but I've only known them as the monolith they are currently so it feels murky.
I don't know why you should be making much by hands. I'd say that it's quite crafty if you craft a wonderful automated system that produces amazing craft beer. And there's still plenty of work for the brewers to do, for example coming up with recipes. Craft brewing is about passion and good beery intentions!
I would think that an older traditional brewery, with traditional “iconic” product should be considered a Craft Brewery. Take the breweries in Bamberg for instance, many of them should be considered Craft Breweries.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Yeah I guess Oakham Ales would be one of the more trad cask breweries that fit your definitions despite its size. The first with an all Citra beer in the UK - so pushing the boundaries a bit. Independently owned. Came out it favour of the small breweries (along with Signature) on the SBDR issue.
Not quite. Many breweries meet the Brewers Association definitions but don't use the logo for myriad reasons. Also you can be owned by another company and still be classed craft in the states, but only if it is less that 25% ownership. Pretty arbitrary really.
I agree on the quality point, as brits (or Americans) our “macro market” is nowhere near the standard of say Germany so it can’t simply be a high quality beer.
As a retired professional baker I see a lot of similarities between bread and beer. The real bread campaign continues to fight for better bread and the smaller artisan bakeries who like the craft breweries aim for a race to the top not the bottom. Still the vast majority of pappy factory produced stuff that I do not wish to call bread is consumed I would estimate by 80% of the population. So I think craft beer & artisan bread would have almost identical definitions. I think craft beer could also be called artisan beer. Definition of artisan = a skilled worker who uses his/her hands & skills to produce quality products.
' There are two definitions of ale, the definition that marketers gave ale and lager when they invented CAMRA and came up with stories, recipes and contests and the definition that Wulf and Narziss gave ale and lager when they wrote the journals that are used for training people on how to produce ale and lager. In 1960, the triple decoction method was replaced with the Hochkurz double decoction method in breweries that produced ale and lager, worldwide. Over 60 years later home brewers and craft brewers are still using the same brewing method and ingredients that moonshiners used 100 years ago during Prohibition for making moonshiners beer that went into a still and it started when marketers huckstered a brewing method and ingredients to people that had absolutely no idea how ale and lager are produced and didn't know that single infusion and high modified, malt are used in grain distillation for making beer that is distilled. It takes an extra step and more work to make malt liquor. Home brew and craft beer made with single temperature infusion and high modified, malt clones moonshiners beer, regardless of the title on a recipe. Single infusion is used in moonshining because it is the quickest and simplest brewing method on the planet that is capable of producing extract that contains a very high volume of simple sugar, glucose, which is responsible for ABV, within one hour, and to make it happen moonshiners use temperatures at 65, 66. The brewing method is difficult to screw up and that gave the master moonshiner the opportunity to allow Lud and Wingnut make some beer without worrying too much about them screwing it up, while he stayed out of the limelight. When a recipe recommends single infusion, high modified, malt, and temperatures at 65, 66, the recipe clones authentic, moonshiners beer. Since moonshiners only need Alpha to do one thing and that is to release glucose they can get away with using inexpensive, high modified, malt because the malt contains just enough enzymes to do the job. The only things that can be controlled in single infusion are the amounts of simple sugar, glucose and sweet tasting, nonfermenting types of sugar that Alpha releases during liquefaction by adjusting the rest temperature. The only problem is that it takes more than glucose and sweet sugar to produce ale. From the profit margin side there is not a better brewing method. From the ale and lager brewing side, it is chemically and enzymatically impossible to make ale by soaking malt in hot water at one temperature. A craft brewer that uses the step mash method and the more expensive, under modified, low protein, malt that is used with the brewing method produces pseudo, ale and lager, but the brewer won't make as many shekels as the brewer that uses single infusion and less expensive, high modified, malt. The one craft brewer makes pseudo, ale and writes ale on the chock board, the other craft brewer makes moonshiners beer and writes ale on the chock board, which brewer is more honest? Single infusion skips the conversion, dextrinization and gelatinization steps because the steps aren't needed for making moonshiners beer. When conversion is skipped the beer is moonshiners beer. When the steps are skipped in craft brewing profit margin increases.
We have a definition of 'real ale' from our friends at CAMRA: "beer brewed from traditional ingredients, matured by secondary fermentation in the container from which it is dispensed, and served without the use of extraneous carbon dioxide". So 'craft beer' is anything that doesn't fall into that 😂 Joking aside, there's a matrix of things here: 1. A craft brewery making non-traditional style / experimental beer - such as Omnipollo 2. A craft brewery making traditional style beer - such as Anspach & Hobday 3. A non-craft brewery making craft beer - such as Fuller's (Montana Red etc.) Edit: What they consider to be craft i.e. non-traditional. So I think my point is just because a 'craft' brewery makes the beer doesn't necessarily make it 'craft' beer - or should it? It's actually quite confusing and there will always be exceptions to any rule. We are almost defining what a craft brewery is rather than the product because if the beer is considered 'craft' by some definition then whoever made it shouldn't matter.
I sort of feel like "craft" is the global "real ale". It's an effort to prevent the loss of variety in the beer available on the market. With a side-effect of preserving traditional styles and the innovation that helps them evolve. CAMRA was there first. But craft took on the world.
I think at one point most beer would be craft, Stella for example was just a Christmas beer on first release. Success is a double edged sword with being craft
Beer making being an industrial process, I therefore agree with you that the level of automation and volume of production does not define craft. Now, in my opinion out of the 5 beers, Verdant would be the only one that I consider craft. Camden Town Brewery, even if it does break my heart (lived / worked down the road from them and spent a stupid amount of time at the brewery) is definitely not craft anymore. The rest of the pack are just specialist beers. As said, race to the top is the true definition of craft!
Craft beer: rather than “how much money can I make from this beer” it’s “how good can this beer be” so craft brewers value the quality of the product over profitability of the product.
And i dont think experimentation is necessarily part of it. I think experimentation is great but if a brewery opens up and just focuses on making idk... The best traditonal german styles perhaps. And theyre gettign down to the nitty gritty and sourcing the best ingredients they can get and putting the labor and love into it and never do a whacky hype beer... I think it could still easily be craft. Maybe even artisanal. Lol (nothing wrong with whacky fun experimental beers, i enjoy them as well) but as a Homebrewer i also see the importance of focusing on making great traditional styles to keep the roots alive
I'm pretty certain Brewdog would describe themselves as being the greatest craft brewery of all time, indeed the very definition of craft. I'd say they're an over-hyped, generic, deliberately controversial marketing company that happens to brew average beers :)
Haha I think that's a bit dismissive of the incredible impact they have had in the british beer scene, and the hundreds of phenomenal beers they have made. That said, no they can't be considered craft under our definition as they fall foul of the ethical elements and indeed the pricing one.
Yeah, that’s fair. I remember being told as a lad, in no uncertain terms, that you *could* get real ale in a bottle but only if it was bottle-conditioned. I don’t think I’ve seen a bottle-conditioned beer in years.
And that's where I'd put Timothy Taylors (as a Keighley lad I've had quite a few decades drinking their wares on a very local basis). They're not craft but they are a very good, reliable and consistent 'real ale' brewery. I think there's room for both.
Craft beer doesn’t have a definition in my eyes as brewers and breweries are always stretching the boundaries. Verdant making creamy, hoppy, hazy beers, Vault City blurring the lines between Craft Beer and Desserts with cocktails somewhere in the mix. DEYA putting a modern twist on old school styles of beer. Craft Beer is not a definition, but an evolution!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel oh no of course tradition is key. What I’m saying is craft beer as a product on the current market is an evolution of what was once considered craft beer. But the traditional/ original craft breweries of yester years helped to lay the foundations for it!
*So THIS IS IT, our definition of craft beer:* Craft beer is a race to the top. It is brewed with the intention of putting flavour and process above cost. It can be innovative or traditional, served in any format, and does not have to come from an independent or small brewery - but it must not do damage to the industry’s reputation or any other brewery’s freedom to produce beer to the best of its ability.
What do you think? Answers below!
So can i just confirm that a beer such as Harveys Best is considered a craft beer? I definitely would.
@@PMason85 Well... unfortunately Harvey's have also campaigned to raise taxes for smaller breweries so within our definition they'd struggle, but the liquid itself and the intention is absolutely craft.
Sorry, finished watching your video and you've answered my question lol.
Independent, Independent, Independent beer.
Too many words. I'd say it's all hype and the The Government Bureau for the Promotion of Oats is involved somewhere. All I know is UK beer was awful. We still have those awful beers which have somehow got worse but we now have a chance at beer which tastes of nice things and is pleasant to drink.
Creating , Ridiculously, Artistic , Fantastic, Tasting …..Ales .. is what it means !!!!great conversation !!
Somehow I just found your channel. Maybe it was erasing all previous searches and watch history then searching for beer content.
Anyway, and I’m probably very late on this, the intent of the corporation is very important. The shelf space allotted to the really one huge corporations squeezes out everyone else. They are more concerned about putting others out of business than making really good beer.
A local brew pub near me has grown significantly, but has maintained the heart and soul of being a craft brewery. That’s important.
Love you your content!
My definition of craft is very similar: A brewing methodology that concentrates on taste rather than profitability.
I love how Brad gets more lyrical the further left we go down the beer line!
Great vid. This really got me thinking not only about 'what is craft beer' but also about how I brew and what it means to me. My definition is somewhat lengthier but I think captures the spirit and my own approach.
There has to be purpose behind the beer.
The recipe has been crafted by the brewer to achieve the brewers goals.
Every ingredient has been thought about, cared about, and is there for a reason.
None of the reasons, goals, or purpose can include cost or mass market appeal - it’s about what the brewer wants, not the masses.
The craft comes from the brewer, not the beer.
Love the idea of "Race to the Top" because it really sums up the idea of craft beer being about people making the best beer with their teams, their breweries and whatever they can, be it traditional styles or the most out-there creations. I think the idea of what a brewery does with their revenue in terms of looking out for people both in their teams and also their communities (customers, business partners) and being a force for good is really important as well.
Great video as always chaps!
... a drop that took some genuine thought and effort .
I think I like your view as I've tried to point out to people on Facebook groups just because a company is small and independent doesn't mean that are socially or environmentally responsible at all.. or care about there beer.. it's a case by case basis
This answers my question! Thank you for this awesome video!
Love the approach of you. Starting with the "definite" craft and going "further" away, trying to find the red line.
I've got a new love and respect for Camden, after going to their Kentish town brewery and seeing that its pretty small and they still use it a lot and when they had production problems at their larger north London brewery they were brewing around the clock there. Also I have a mutual friend who's worked with AB inBev and they basically let Camden be Camden, they aren't that interested in changing them and are rather casual in their practices. Also the guys who work for Camden absolutely love beer and their brewery, that passion I wasn't expecting for such a big brewery - so they employ lots of people across London - there's lots of jobs behind every pint of Hells. Nowadays after reading and learning about proper lager, I really love finding well crafted lager and Camden Hells is that.
Would love to know when you guys are heading to Australia and try some of the great beers that are being produced here. We have a lot of great breweries here like Mountain Culture, Mr Banks, Bacchus, Deeds, Bracket, Fox, Range, Rocky Ridge, Shapeshifter and more! If you are ever in Brisbane I would be happy to show you around a few breweries and open up the beer fridge for you guys
Such a fun (but also frustrating) question. For me, scale of production definitely does factor in, but then I got thinking, "but wait, what if a large brewery does do an ostensibly 'experimental' beer?" Then Brad mentioned the "mindset" thing, which I think really puts things into perspective.
In Canada we have both Sam Adams lager and Punk IPA in most liquor stores, both in the "international" section of the beer aisle. However, Boston Beer Company doesn't "feel" craft to me, even though they do produce seasonals, because their primary focus is just pumping out Sam Adams lager, and that's where they started. The variants, etc. are an afterthought. Inversely, Brewdog still "feels" craft to me, even with their massive scale at this point, because they started with the intention of being a craft brewery, and despite their massive growth, experimentation has remained integral to what they do.
The "mindset" approach also helps when it comes to beers or breweries that are owned by larger organizations. It's easy to say, "there's no way anything owned by AB InBev is craft," but then you realize... that includes Goose Island Bourbon Country Stout. But the mindset approaching Bourbon County Stout however, is massively different than the one approaching Budweiser or even Goose Island IPA for that matter, so it still feels right to call Bourbon County Stout "craft." For me at least.
But that brings up another layer, as I'm basically saying a beer can be craft even if the brewery isn't, upon which, looping back to the first two breweries mentioned, perhaps Sam Adams seasonals actually are craft, and perhaps Punk IPA isn't?
Great vid lads!
This last para is where our definition does struggle a bit I think. I feel the same about Goose Island IPA definitely not being, but Bourbon County maybe being craft. Nightmare.
See it's one of those things. I think about this a lot. I prioritize independent craft beer over others in my purchasing but then it's like okay... Sam Adams have the independent label and yet they're absolutely massive. It's so murky of a question.
I think I agree that it's useful to have other categories to put breweries and beer into. Artisan is a good one. I'd say Saint Mars of the Desert is an artisan craft brewery. I think small- batch is a useful term. Independently owned is too. I'd also like to know where my beer is from so Locally brewed is also useful. These aren't needed for craft beer but if none are there then i begin to question if it is craft. Perhaps a diagnostic approach is useful: if the brewery can be said to have 2/3 or more of these characteristics then it is craft.
I'd agree with the intention of putting flavour and process above cost. Maybe even with showing a specific devotion to the craft itself, which you can sort of see imo with Camden Hells.
My homebrew is Craft mainly due to the love put into it and I reckon that's definitely got to be a part of a Craft Beer Label!
Couldn't agree more with the point being made that craft brewing is about the brewer's mindset than simply the amount of beer a brewery brews. That being said, Camden Hells is still my favourite lager after trying it super fresh on tap somewhere in Camden years ago...
I always learn something from your videos. Today I learned that I'm an "artisan" brewer. I make ale on my stove with an 8 gallon enamel canning pot, the best ingredients, no thought to cost - ingredients, packaging or labor - and I give my beer for free to people I deem worthy. 😁 FFS, enough with labeling everything
This is easy to say as someone who understands beer. We define things for those who do not understand, so they have a foothold and some context. It is a vital and very human thing to do.
@@papalegba6796 you seem to have misunderstood the key takeaway from this video by conflating "good" with "craft". They are not the same - there are many great non craft beers and many bad craft ones. TT make fantastic beer, but their anti-small-brewer stance puts them at odds with craft breweries.
I always look for the cask beer when I go to a new brewery,I guess there’s a cask only brewery here in NY in the finger lakes region only a few hours from Syracuse NY.I have been there yet sadly !
Very interesting, as an Austrian I have never heard about Camden or Timothy Taylor. Duvel is available in every beer shop and sometimes even in huge supermarkets, so I would have considered Duvel as the only macro beer out of these.
Great discussion! Thanks, guys. I just visited The Alchemist a week ago on vacation and sampled their just-released "Crusher." Holy cow, what an experience! Sitting with friends on the mountain-view field out back, I thanked John Kimmich for his... craft.
Very interesting. My homebrew is definitely 'craft' (and artisan!!) I think where it really gets tricky is at the borderline - those discussions that decide whether Tim Taylor's Landlord are in or out, or whether Pilsner Urquell is craft or not will help refine the definition! You could easily repeat the video with a few core craft beers and then some borderline tipples. Keep it coming guys!!
Hi Brad, Nik from Brandons in Beckenham. Love the video. Just wondering if there is room for a different subcategory. Maybe a brewery like Timothy Taylor is a legacy craft brewery, consistent, maybe automated, largish scale but committed to flavour and quality over profit as well as continuing the traditions that brought us to the experimental, small craft breweries who are pushing the boundaries.
so in summary: a collaborative, creative, creation of competition...
Excellent "thinky' episode gents.
Very interesting vid, as always!
Pete Brown wrote an excellent book on the idea of "craft beer" in 2020 (titled "Craft: An Argument"); He studies the concept of craft in other areas and goes through the evolution of "craft beer" over time (while trying to define the term). Wonderful book.
Great discussion. Really interesting. One of the larger brewers that I can't decide whether it meets your definition or not is Goose Island. Large volume, they do experiment, they do collab, but owned by Anheuser-Busch.
I think goose are one of those odd ones who aren't craft due to ownership behavious and drop in quality (sadly the IPA is a shadow of its former self) but it does make some amazing beer still
I have this issue as well. Terrapin Beer Co., A local treasure, was acquired by Miller a few years back and although the quality hasn't changed, it seems like they've been pretty hands off and the newer experimental stuff is still rolling out with some regularity... Can we call it craft? I lean towards not. Their Luau is still one of my favorite IPAs but I feel blah about spending the money on it now.
Hi lads, was wondering if the glasses you use are available anywhere? Would love to support you guys and in need of a glass! Thanks x
I think the two of you did a fine job of tackling this question in the video. Now, when is Brad going to be making the next video for Low Brau?
We have it in the works! A few weeks is all.
Admirable attempt at nailing down an arguably impossible definition, and I think you got there. In my mind, there are five things that define "craft" for me:
1) Product is more important that price/profit, although profit plays a role, as it should for any brewery.
2) Production is either experimental/playful or attempts to innovate on traditional beer styles. Beer where you can almost taste the brewer themselves.
3) Reception/intended audience is important; craft beer is aimed at people who enjoy the actual taste and feel of the beer, not just the effect of the alcohol.
4) Inclusion, culture and cooperation/collaboration at the brewery level, although we're getting into territory that can't immediately be seen, when buying a pint at the pub.
5) It might be a nitpick, but visual style: you just can't disconnect the can/bottle art from the experience of the beer. If care has been given to the visual aesthetic of the beer, then it probably also has been to the liquid inside the bottle. But this is where we go from "craft" to "art", and it matters the least IMO.
In Denmark, stores sometimes market "specialøl", basically special beer (meaning "not American or Euro Lagers"), but they usually fall flat on at least two or three of the above criteria.
Again, thanks for having an informed discussion. We've come to expect that from you two.
Thanks for the detailed response Michael! Interesting to think about who the beer is aimed at, I've never really considered that before.
Love it. Always been an advocate of craft not being exclusive to one particular format.
I always appreciated your including the term ethical in your previous definitions and I think that’s at the core of craft. When I hear a “race to the top” I don’t necessarily think craft though. I don’t think craft has to mean “the best” because that’s so subjective, but good a quality product with good practices to make it for your good customer base sounds good to me.
When we say a race to the top I think we still mean the intention - to be making the best beer that YOU can. So less competitive that being the best.
Good vid. How would you classify Wicked Weed in Asheville, NC. Part of a giant machine, now. But, creatively, they have a strong heritage - perhaps the craftiest of crafts in the US pre-acquisition.
Great video guys, and very interesting reading all the comments.
Some future video ideas; Q&A about yourselfs and the channel, Q&A about beer (styles, history, brewing, politics etc), and a reaction type video where you go back and watch some of the older videos you have made, what have changed over the years, have you changed your mind about some things, how much more knowledge do you hahe now, videoquality, life update etc. I think that would be both interesting and fun for us watching and you guys making it.
Keep up the great work lads🙌🏼🍻
Thanks Onkel! We could definitely do that, although we also host regular live shows where we take questions as well!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel yes I have noticed, it’s great, but often I can’t make it in time, so for the most part I watch «normal» videos when I have the time to sit back and enjoy some CBC content🙌🏼
Great video guys - loved watching you chew (and drink) through all of those considerations!
Brewing question @Jonny - what was that connector you had on the top of the GF conical that enabled you to connect the gas ball lock disconnect? That looks super useful!
Cheers
The pressure transfer kit from Malt Miller!
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Fantastic thanks. Malt Miller are THE BEST.
Recently Sucel have been making a range of experimental beers - triple hopped, barrel aged, etc which are more craft.
I love that definition; think it provides a really clear way to differentiate craft beer from macro beer that has been brewed exclusively for profit.
The only slight snag, is the final part about it not being damaging for the industry as that is more applicable at the brewery level than to the beer itself. A brewery that has done some slightly nefarious things (like pushing for a tax hike for smaller brewers) can still produce a beer that meets the first part of the definition. It's difficult though as you definitely don't want to be condoning those practices as part of the craft beer industry.
Indeed. We added that almost as a wish, and as a rule for our channel
@@papalegba6796 it's the same principle as income tax. As you start earning more, you pay more tax. It's the only way that those with less income can survive, whilst still allowing for enough tax to be generated to pay for everything the country needs.
Campaigning for higher tax rates for smaller brewers makes it much harder for them to survive. This in turn strengthens the position of the bigger breweries as there is less competition.
Can't really comment much on the contract brewing loopholes as I simply don't know enough about it.
Great stuff. As a Californian, I often wonder: Where does Anchor Brewing (San Francisco) fall into this? Their Liberty Ale was on the market about a decade before Sierra Nevada, but the brewery itself was a century old at that point. Can centuries-old brewery revamp their entire process (and recipes) to become “craft”?
Don't forget that Anchor is owned by Sapporo now. Also, they've been quite litigious with their "Steam" trademark.
Absolutely! And I'd probably consider them craft today, although I don't know much about their owner, Saporro.
I think ... By my feeling .... I agree on what you compared it metaphorically at 0:48. It's an art, not state-of-the-art.
Would it be a great idea to put Untappd links to the beers drank in the video in the summary/show notes? I would certainly love that 🍻🥳
I think the most iconic craft beer is Fantome. I don’t recall you guys talking much about them. Maybe a trip to Soy is in order.
I like the idea of it being a mindset and a process rather than anything concrete and measurable. It's about the spirit within the producer and the intention behind the manufacture, not about styles or history or batch size or anything else. That's an explainable thought that, like art, doesn't put anything into a box and lets people come to their own conclusions whilst always being reasonably correct.
@@papalegba6796 I don't know what comment you thought you were responding to, my comment has nothing to do with standards and regulations, just an intentionally nebulous definition for a rather nebulous concept.
Sierra and Anchor brewing I believe we’re the first and if my memory serves me well,I think Anchor Brewery was first as Maytag ?
I think an important thing an important thing that you were so close to hinting at is the sense of community. Like that Verdant x Floc DIPA, these are essentially competitors working together to learn from each other and make something good. A Budweiser x Heineken collab would never happen
I'm pretty sure that the Great Lakes Brewing Company based out of Cleveland is about as old as Sierra Nevada, and it's still owned by the Conway family. But they are, admittedly, more of a regional brewery. If you can get Great Lakes beers overseas, I'd recommend the Dortmunder Gold and the Edmund Fitzgerald Porter.
Great lakes was nearly a decade later! But a great brewery I'd def consider craft.
The difficult ones for me are beers like Gamma Ray and Faith, which were amazing and expensive and are now still very good and pretty cheap in supermarkets.
I guess the same category as Sierra Nevada and Brewdog. Those breweries all do lots of smaller batch beers which certainly are craft but harder to say with the main beer.
I think Craft Beer can be broadly defined as an aesthetic.
Visual aesthetics through artwork and branding, adhering to or experimenting with styles and flavour, and allusions towards independent spirit. I think its valid, but a harder task to try define beer procedurally either through the making of, or exploiting of the beer because you arrive into murky subjective waters.
So why not head subjective straight away and define craft beer as a set of products that share aesthetics, like how we define styles of paintings or music. Just some thoughts, love the channel!
It's like trying to draw the north/south divide line, some things are obviously craft, some things are obviously not and then there's that grey area in the middle some locals insist is called the midlands, basically Duvel is Leicester.
Lol
My gateway was Brewdog Punk IPA. Whatever they are now i see them as the brewery that amplified the scene massively by looking at was getting done in California. But it was a point in time where first trying that floral tropical (ish) taste id just never tried id guess 2015-16.
I'm way past it now but you wonder without Brewdog would this craft beer revolution have happened in the Uk?
They are so global now are they even still craft lol
Always entertaining watching you two getting gently pissed and profound! I largely agree as well. As a dyed in the wool cask drinker, when craft happened I genuinely thought the term was modern hipster language for cask! Then I realised the cultural difference, which I think is more perception than fact. As an all-grain home brewer, I DO labour over my product but I have nothing against mechanised brewing if it's done with excellent ingredients to a delicious recipe. My favourite take on this very subject is Pete Brown's book Craft: An argument. Broadly in agreement with the points made here and expanding on the meaning of craft, besides brewing.
@@papalegba6796 A bit of a generalization don't you think? There are excellent cask beers and excellent craft beers. Equally there are terrible versions of both as well. I'm not so sure it's a simple thing either. If you brew, you'll realise it's a tightly controlled process with an equally complex and delicious outcome.
Had they not sold, I'd have raised Lagunitas as one of the most experimental large scale Craft breweries.
Heartily agree. Their IPA is a classic.
I was thinking if I knew any brewery that's been sold to big companies and has losts its way, but I couldn't remember anything. Just Ballast Point.
Do you know any breweries that have had those kind of problems? I'd love to watch a video about that!
Cheers from Chile.
I think I need to understand beer pricing to appreciate this.
Craft Beer is the celebration of the craft of brewing beer
Free State Brewery in Lawrence, KS established back in 1989 still make some of the beers they started out with. Back in the day they were a brew pub, now they have a more industrial brewery where they make most of their beers. The quality is still there and the beers taste like I remembered them. So I agree, size does not matter. Mikkeller and your buddies Omnipollo used to make their beers industrially at other brewers, now that is proof it is not defined by lack of automation either. To me craft is creativity and respect for quality ingredients.
Am I right in thinking that Sierra Nevada pale ale is brewed by contract in UK for UK drinkers? And if so does that impact on it being ‘craft’?
Merch suggestion: a poster of a map based on this video, with some beers as examples, such as Sierra Nevada in “the ancient forest of craft” or Timothy Taylor in “murky swamp of controversy”. As for the content, it’s not the first time I hear this question but it’s the first time when both people are sober(ish?), do not raise their voice along the way, and don’t end the argument with threats of fistfights, although who knows what happens in the Brewdio when the cameras are off!
Lol. I can assure you all that happened once the camera stopped rolling was another beer and a tender embrace.
My understanding Craft Beer was a phrase that originally described a small brewery in North America, now the phrase is used with increasing frequency so much the meaning is being diluted.
Hence why we're trying to bring meaning back!
So... If Ambev bought the first double IPA without changing anything about it or it's label? Not craft any more?
Yes. The intention would change, even if the beer didn't.
What glasses you tasting in?
Stemless wine glasses
Did you not do this video a while ago?
I’d definitely refer to breweries like Timmy Taylor’s as ‘trad’ rather than craft, but definitely think their independence/quality sets them apart from macro. I guess what I’m getting at is - is it only craft or macro, or are there more categories?
I think trad is a subset of craft - the intentions are the same, just the flavour is different.
I don't think the term 'craft' can be fixed in time for a particular beer, it's fluid. The closer the involvement of the brewing team with the development of the beer they're brewing, the more Craft that beer is.
The definition of Craft is 'Something made with skill and experience' so Craft beer would be any that is brewed using skill and experience !! maybe craft is not the best term to describe what we want cover here ? Dynamic Innovative Race To Top !!
Where do you see Brewdog in this?
This is really a question with nothing black or white. My favourite, which I struggle a lot with is the Swedish Gotlands Bryggeri on the island of Gotland (surprise...). A small brewery in the medieval town of Visby. They make some interesting beers (Tea-infused ale, blueberry IPA etc...) and has helped the brewing community on the island a lot. They would tick all boxes on being a craft brewery. However they are owned by the big bad guy and 95% of the production (the big sellers) is made on the mainland on other breweries. Can a brewery be craft and some BUT not all of their beers craft beers..? I need a beer to figure that out...
Its "funny" that here, in Brazil, you can buy Duvel at Ambev's owned marketplaces (websites, apps...). Ambev is the Brazilian "part" of AB Inbev. Looking from that perspective, we should move it to non-craft. Cheers!
But they don't own a share in Duvel, surely they only stock it?
@@TheCraftBeerChannel I don't know why this happens. they sell "smaller" brands but not the big ones, like Lagunitas (from the Heineken group). is something to look for since they have a brand that rivals Duvel: Victoria
So does the ingredients and quality of them mater? Does the diversity of styles that brewery produces mater? And does the intension from the breweries start to change the industry through a new beer style help define it as craft?
None of this matters except the quality of the ingredients. Many craft breweries make one style, and there's nothing wrong with that!
Dictionary definition-
craft beer
noun
a beer made in a traditional or non-mechanized way by a small brewery.
So only Verdant fits
But Verdant are HEAVILY mechanised. It is all machine and computers there now.
“Quality first beer, made by people who care about product, consumer and community”.
I think this definition riffs on the same themes as CBC’s but in a pithier nutshell. In particular, I think this definition speaks well to the broadness of the church (beer style, serving method, process differences, target audience), allowing in the myriad of difference in ‘craft’, whilst also doing a good job of excluding a broad array of brewers that don’t meet the necessary criteria (Most macros are shit, thus failing on ‘product’; Timmy’s supports taxation change, thus failing on ‘community’ and so on). I also think this definition allows for dynamism; Beavertown once met the criteria but fell out after their abysmal sell-out, and this definition gives us a way to qualify why they no longer are (reduction in product quality, lack of care for community). This definition also does a good job of dealing with the independence issue, because a brewery that is owned by (or heavily invested in by) macros can’t be craft, because all large corporations fail on community (exploiting workers and destroying smaller competitors and the environment being key reasons).
Thats the joke in the US. Add the term artisan or craft to anything and the price doubles. Love the channel and keep up the good work.
Haha well that might be part marketing but it's also the cost of very different ingredients, processes, scale etc
Good discussion. Labelling and categorising things is always going to have grey areas and at the end of the day is subjective. You are never going to get everyone to sit down and thrash out at an agreed definition. To some degree it has become a marketing word just like your discussion on IPA. I would actually only class the first beer as craft. I would class Sierra Nevada, Duvel and Landlord as traditional due to the fact that the beers have stayed relatively the same over some time. Yes they were innovative at the time but then so was probably Heineken 🙂So I think there has to be a time perspective to the definition. My own personal definition of craft would be a brewery that pushes the boundaries of flavours and is contently inventive, which tends to mean smaller time-limited batches. One of my favourite "bigger" breweries who I would class as craft is Drygate.. They manage to have long standing fairly high quantity favourites, that can still be flavour challenging, that you can also get in supermarkets, as well as inventive small batches which you have to get online or in their tap room. On the other side of the grey area would be a local brewery to me is Castle Rock, who are just hanging in on the craft side but now just pushing into the traditional, as their inventiveness mellows. But then other local breweries like Neon Raptor and Black Iris are definite craft breweries. Funnily I think a lot of the beers that I see at craft festivals could probably be categorised as artisan 🙂I would agree the brewery must advance the sense of community and collaboration of the industry.
Fiiiiiinallly!! Delving into the argument of whether some of these old-school Germann & Belgian beers can be considered craft. I think in the case of those breweries that have sold out to the international beer corporations (Afligem to Heineken, etc), the obvious answer is no. But Duvel? Well, like Sierra Nevada they are still family-owned, and like Sierra Nevada they brew quality products, and they basically have the same annual output as Sierra Nevada too. But for them to be craft, do they have to be experimenting with newer styles also? I mean, they're making beers that probably would have been considered the best in the world prior to the American craft revolution (i.e. Schneider-Weisse). I've come up with the term "old-school craft" for these kinds of beers/breweries, but I'm open to other arguments too...
The distinction of automated vs not, that's not something I'd thought of previously...
Really interesting topic and discussion. Personally I feel like craft is more about innovation on a smaller local scale. Obviously Miller-Coors or Annheuser Busch can make a craft style of beer but that doesn’t make them craft. But in the end you just have to ask yourself is it good beer? If so drink it and support the brewers. Cheers. 🍻
Is brewdog a craft brewery?
Not in our definition, and not the way they run their company.
Counter point. Craft should 100% be tried to quality. A micro brewery who opens to just ride the IPA wave. Cheats the haze by use of flour etc... Doesn't clean the lines. Sells a known subpar product. Is more "Craft" than someone like Guinness who was the first brewery to own a microscope/have a yeast lab. Invented nitrogen dispensing. Stays 100% focused on quality of product and their yeast culture. Etc... No way.
Craft to me is a mindset of quality, improvement, and innovation of product. Macros CAN produce a craft product. But so can smaller breweries. I don't think size should matter. But this is very much a separate art from artist view point. And not going to be a popular take on this channel haha. Cheers guys. Keep killing it!
I think it is important for most craft breweries to have something like a cheap light lager than can sell in some sort of volume just to get some income. Then go for the great stuff that we all enjoy which does have a much smaller market. (I would've loved to be able to get my hands on one of those Verdant beers in the video) Unfortunately not everyone can afford the equivalent of a 7 pound single beer. Especially in times where there is an economic downturn. Personally I will rather take 1 great beer than 4 mediocre ones as an example. I don't think the masses look at it the same as that. There are an upper price point where I believe you just wont sell any beer which moves over time with the economy and disposable income.
Doesn't it boil down to "Is the brewery run by the brewers or the bean-counters."
I think every brewery is a balance of those things, but certainly when it shifts wildly towards the accountants the result ain't gonna be craft.
I always thought that craft meant by the amount of barrels brewed per year.
Well the Brewers Association defines it in part that way, along with some other elements but we don't think it's relevant at all. Especially in today's world where some of the best beers in the world are made at incredible scale.
I think my line blurs around Sierra Nevada, I feel like my only yes is Verdant X-D
Ooof. I think you have hop blindness!
Maybe a little, I just feel like applying labels of craft or not to Belgian breweries seems odd as I don't get the feeling they care. So can you be craft when your beer culture mentality doesn't really care?
The others will 100% leverage power against craft breweries so I wouldn't call them craft.
I think Sierra Nevada are craft but I've only known them as the monolith they are currently so it feels murky.
I don't know why you should be making much by hands. I'd say that it's quite crafty if you craft a wonderful automated system that produces amazing craft beer. And there's still plenty of work for the brewers to do, for example coming up with recipes.
Craft brewing is about passion and good beery intentions!
‘Chef’s kiss’ more like ‘Chef’s toke’
Duvel is known as "The Champagne of Beers".
I would think that an older traditional brewery, with traditional “iconic” product should be considered a Craft Brewery. Take the breweries in Bamberg for instance, many of them should be considered Craft Breweries.
100% - the only reason TT weren't in our definition was their ethics
@@TheCraftBeerChannel Yeah I guess Oakham Ales would be one of the more trad cask breweries that fit your definitions despite its size. The first with an all Citra beer in the UK - so pushing the boundaries a bit. Independently owned. Came out it favour of the small breweries (along with Signature) on the SBDR issue.
Here in the states,If you don’t have the independent brewing label then you are not craft or Micro ? Tell me if if wrong !
Not quite. Many breweries meet the Brewers Association definitions but don't use the logo for myriad reasons. Also you can be owned by another company and still be classed craft in the states, but only if it is less that 25% ownership. Pretty arbitrary really.
I agree on the quality point, as brits (or Americans) our “macro market” is nowhere near the standard of say Germany so it can’t simply be a high quality beer.
This is precisely why I prefer Real Ale.
Real ale is craft beer.
As a retired professional baker I see a lot of similarities between bread and beer. The real bread campaign continues to fight for better bread and the smaller artisan bakeries who like the craft breweries aim for a race to the top not the bottom. Still the vast majority of pappy factory produced stuff that I do not wish to call bread is consumed I would estimate by 80% of the population. So I think craft beer & artisan bread would have almost identical definitions. I think craft beer could also be called artisan beer. Definition of artisan = a skilled worker who uses his/her hands & skills to produce quality products.
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There are two definitions of ale, the definition that marketers gave ale and lager when they invented CAMRA and came up with stories, recipes and contests and the definition that Wulf and Narziss gave ale and lager when they wrote the journals that are used for training people on how to produce ale and lager.
In 1960, the triple decoction method was replaced with the Hochkurz double decoction method in breweries that produced ale and lager, worldwide. Over 60 years later home brewers and craft brewers are still using the same brewing method and ingredients that moonshiners used 100 years ago during Prohibition for making moonshiners beer that went into a still and it started when marketers huckstered a brewing method and ingredients to people that had absolutely no idea how ale and lager are produced and didn't know that single infusion and high modified, malt are used in grain distillation for making beer that is distilled. It takes an extra step and more work to make malt liquor.
Home brew and craft beer made with single temperature infusion and high modified, malt clones moonshiners beer, regardless of the title on a recipe. Single infusion is used in moonshining because it is the quickest and simplest brewing method on the planet that is capable of producing extract that contains a very high volume of simple sugar, glucose, which is responsible for ABV, within one hour, and to make it happen moonshiners use temperatures at 65, 66. The brewing method is difficult to screw up and that gave the master moonshiner the opportunity to allow Lud and Wingnut make some beer without worrying too much about them screwing it up, while he stayed out of the limelight. When a recipe recommends single infusion, high modified, malt, and temperatures at 65, 66, the recipe clones authentic, moonshiners beer. Since moonshiners only need Alpha to do one thing and that is to release glucose they can get away with using inexpensive, high modified, malt because the malt contains just enough enzymes to do the job. The only things that can be controlled in single infusion are the amounts of simple sugar, glucose and sweet tasting, nonfermenting types of sugar that Alpha releases during liquefaction by adjusting the rest temperature. The only problem is that it takes more than glucose and sweet sugar to produce ale. From the profit margin side there is not a better brewing method. From the ale and lager brewing side, it is chemically and enzymatically impossible to make ale by soaking malt in hot water at one temperature.
A craft brewer that uses the step mash method and the more expensive, under modified, low protein, malt that is used with the brewing method produces pseudo, ale and lager, but the brewer won't make as many shekels as the brewer that uses single infusion and less expensive, high modified, malt. The one craft brewer makes pseudo, ale and writes ale on the chock board, the other craft brewer makes moonshiners beer and writes ale on the chock board, which brewer is more honest? Single infusion skips the conversion, dextrinization and gelatinization steps because the steps aren't needed for making moonshiners beer. When conversion is skipped the beer is moonshiners beer. When the steps are skipped in craft brewing profit margin increases.
We have a definition of 'real ale' from our friends at CAMRA: "beer brewed from traditional ingredients, matured by secondary fermentation in the container from which it is dispensed, and served without the use of extraneous carbon dioxide". So 'craft beer' is anything that doesn't fall into that 😂
Joking aside, there's a matrix of things here:
1. A craft brewery making non-traditional style / experimental beer - such as Omnipollo
2. A craft brewery making traditional style beer - such as Anspach & Hobday
3. A non-craft brewery making craft beer - such as Fuller's (Montana Red etc.) Edit: What they consider to be craft i.e. non-traditional.
So I think my point is just because a 'craft' brewery makes the beer doesn't necessarily make it 'craft' beer - or should it? It's actually quite confusing and there will always be exceptions to any rule. We are almost defining what a craft brewery is rather than the product because if the beer is considered 'craft' by some definition then whoever made it shouldn't matter.
I sort of feel like "craft" is the global "real ale". It's an effort to prevent the loss of variety in the beer available on the market. With a side-effect of preserving traditional styles and the innovation that helps them evolve. CAMRA was there first. But craft took on the world.
With craft beer the ingredients dictate the price, in "macro" beers the price determines the possible ingredients.
This is a nice way of putting it, though it isn't just macro that thinks that way. A lot of smaller breweries do too
@@TheCraftBeerChannel I aggree, hence the quotation marks!
I think at one point most beer would be craft, Stella for example was just a Christmas beer on first release. Success is a double edged sword with being craft
Beer making being an industrial process, I therefore agree with you that the level of automation and volume of production does not define craft.
Now, in my opinion out of the 5 beers, Verdant would be the only one that I consider craft. Camden Town Brewery, even if it does break my heart (lived / worked down the road from them and spent a stupid amount of time at the brewery) is definitely not craft anymore. The rest of the pack are just specialist beers.
As said, race to the top is the true definition of craft!
Craft beer: rather than “how much money can I make from this beer” it’s “how good can this beer be” so craft brewers value the quality of the product over profitability of the product.
Mega breweries don’t push buttons, they would tap the computer key if needed.
Craft beer is beer you can savor and feel guilty for guzzling
I would read Brad's manifesto
It is likely many, many pages long. The War and Peace of manifestos. But only with peace.
@@TheCraftBeerChannel This Friday 5pm Brad should give us a quick synopsis! Love and beer
And i dont think experimentation is necessarily part of it. I think experimentation is great but if a brewery opens up and just focuses on making idk... The best traditonal german styles perhaps. And theyre gettign down to the nitty gritty and sourcing the best ingredients they can get and putting the labor and love into it and never do a whacky hype beer... I think it could still easily be craft. Maybe even artisanal. Lol (nothing wrong with whacky fun experimental beers, i enjoy them as well) but as a Homebrewer i also see the importance of focusing on making great traditional styles to keep the roots alive
Totally agree! As we put in our final definition, traditional or innovative breweries can absolutely be considered craft.
Where does brewdog fit in?....
I'm pretty certain Brewdog would describe themselves as being the greatest craft brewery of all time, indeed the very definition of craft. I'd say they're an over-hyped, generic, deliberately controversial marketing company that happens to brew average beers :)
Haha I think that's a bit dismissive of the incredible impact they have had in the british beer scene, and the hundreds of phenomenal beers they have made. That said, no they can't be considered craft under our definition as they fall foul of the ethical elements and indeed the pricing one.
Weird that ‘real ale’ never gets a mention here.
Sure it does but we use the term cask ale.
Yeah, that’s fair. I remember being told as a lad, in no uncertain terms, that you *could* get real ale in a bottle but only if it was bottle-conditioned.
I don’t think I’ve seen a bottle-conditioned beer in years.
And that's where I'd put Timothy Taylors (as a Keighley lad I've had quite a few decades drinking their wares on a very local basis). They're not craft but they are a very good, reliable and consistent 'real ale' brewery. I think there's room for both.
Craft beer doesn’t have a definition in my eyes as brewers and breweries are always stretching the boundaries. Verdant making creamy, hoppy, hazy beers, Vault City blurring the lines between Craft Beer and Desserts with cocktails somewhere in the mix. DEYA putting a modern twist on old school styles of beer. Craft Beer is not a definition, but an evolution!
So no place there for tradition?
@@TheCraftBeerChannel oh no of course tradition is key. What I’m saying is craft beer as a product on the current market is an evolution of what was once considered craft beer. But the traditional/ original craft breweries of yester years helped to lay the foundations for it!