Thank you Sir for sharing! You managed to navigate the subjects of the good, the bad and the ugly of this camera in a dignifying and respectful manner which commanded not only my confidence but my trust! Cheers! 🍺😉👍🏻
Thank you so much for yet another great review video. Kinefinity user/ owner since 2013. This video is detailed, technical, full of information and spoken in a pleasant to hear manner, which unfortunately is something most people struggle with nowadays. They think faster is better and then mistake fast for rushed and talk as if they have a train to catch. 🙂 The importance of pauses, silences… At the right moment, is so often neglected but, not in your videos.
Really sorry it’s taken so long to reply… I was taking a break from RUclips! Thank you so much for the kind words... it's one of the reasons I'm back! Thank you.
If it made it to extra shot and got your thumb of approval. It gets mine. Simple as that. I've been watching kinefinity for about 4 years and this camera is truly impressive.
@@extrashot amen to that. My budget doesnt allow for the mavo but my budget would allow for terra 4k. If you happen to get your hands on one of those, please review. Also, what were your thoughts on the kinefinity customer service? I know your in UK but I'm in the states. That would be kind of a a deal breaker if I cant get it fixed in the United states
@@gnkstudios6138 Hi Gregory... sorry your message went into spam for some reason?... anyway, yes, very good point... customer service is a sensible concern with any pro camera purchase. There was an issue in the UK... but things look as though they are getting better as the main UK dealer is now becoming authorised to make most repairs locally. I don't know how many spares and parts they carry yet, but not having to send it back to China for every silly fault is a major plus. I know this was a stumbling block for many purchasers. Hopefully Kinefinity will be doing the same for dealers in the States?... they definitely should if they want pro's to take them seriously.
The review itself is of great quality and finally we're getting back to people speaking at a normal speed for people who like to digest what they're listening to... As opposed to very nervous kids trying to come across as smarter by talking as if they have a train to catch, to an audience with short attention span.
I actually had to watch this at 2x the speed! I'm 33, but am definitely victim to the lower-attention span generation. But at the same time, I can absorb a lot of information in a shorter amount of time. I'm also a filmmaker/editor, which factors in, as I often have to watch interview raw footage at twice the speed, or i'd get no work done, so i'm used to it. Never the less, absolutely nothing against this video or the delivery by Mr ExtraShot, all top quality. Just thought it was funny to mention! I've been eyeing this camera up from afar for some time. Great to hear the pros and cons.
@@alex_pasquini Tell you what Alex... I'll try real hard to talk a bit faster and make them shorter. I also find myself hitting the 2x button sometimes so I know where you're coming from. (my pet hate is people who spend the first 3 minutes telling you what they are going to be telling you!). Thanks for taking the time to comment - it's appreciated. Paul 😎
Yes... I noticed at the recent IBC that they had improved the labelling. Looks like they are serious about listening to their customers which is great. 👍 Thanks for confirming.
Just being a bit nerdy here. They did release a firmware with which you can reprogram the buttons and with newers batches they changed the 1234 buttons signs into wb iso shutter... And their current 5inch monitor will be soon replaced by a new design, 7inch coming next month and evf coming in August. But yeah, i feel like they need a bit extra spark that makes their camera shine, hope they get that with their future generation cameras.
Well Well ahh.... That sounds interesting.... I've just heard about a remap of the buttons in some beta firmware due soon.... Don't dismiss the nerdiness... Celibrate it!!!
Nice to see another video from you again. Nice cinema camera, but out of my price range. Still miss your friend/colleague you used to do videos with the GH5/GH5s.
Hi Arthur... it's Christchurch Priory Church from the river Avon (Dorset UK). I keep going there to get a feel for dynamic range simply because there's loads of highlights and shadows when the sun pops out. Picturesque spot!
Thanks, great review. While I'm sure Arri and RED are not exactly shaking in their boots, they should be looking down the mountain to see who is rapidly moving their way up. With cameras like this Kinefinity, the soon to be released Panasonic S1H, Sony A7S III, the already released BMPCC4k, GH5s, Nikon Z6, - heck even Fuji went from worst video specs to one of the best with the X-T3 - it's clear that companies small and large are moving aggressively to offer lower cost/higher quality cams for independent productions. And lenses are also getting cheaper - Fuji's line of MK lenses for E mount, Fuji X and soon to be released M 4/3 is a budget cinema lens that competes with the bigs.
I think the big boys should be shaking... the speed at which these things have been improving is quite breathtaking. Great time to be shooting pictures on a budget... as you say, the costs have been dropping fast. However, I'm not sure what full frame is going to do to the price of parfocal lenses though !!! Thank you for making good points... so much choice.
perhaps democratization will mean more amateur schlock productions to compete with, but at the same time, perhaps wresting some control away from the Usurers who control Hollywood? At which point Gates et al will have to get more desperate to chip us all using virus vaccination as an excuse, to force us onto their cashless system, whereby filmmakers who dare to expose the System will be cut off from services, money, food, etc. My how dystopian! lol. It's the Usurers who should fear.
It would be interesting to see a review of the Z-Cam F6/F8 when they become available they are giving Kinefinity/Red a good stab at a 4/5k GBP price point.
Thank you for sharing your opinion on this! I do have to say that you're extremely pleasant to listen to, so, well done on that! I wish I had a budget for the Mavo LF or even the S35 6K version tbh, it looks absolutely amazing picture-wise. Although, my BMPCC4K aint bad either, just a lot more workarounds to be made (rigging etc).
Paul Defaire The colour science in the BMPCC4K is right up there with the big budget cameras...have fun, you've got a great camera!... And thanks for your comment, it's appreciated 👍
Thanks for the review! Did you get a chance to check out the audio capabilities of the Mavo, especially with the Kineback? Like mapping a mic to two channels to have a safety track, stuff that would be helpful for documentary shooting. There seems to be missing a lot in this department as far as I have read online.
Martin Friedrich, all I noticed was two XLR tracks on the Kineback... Very basic. However, it was interesting to see that these were recorded on the SSD as separate WAV files in the same folder as the video.... Massive plus when recording high frame rates because you've still got audio (at real time). Ie. Slowmo with real audio!
Thanks Paul. Great real world user info that is vital information for me. The aperture delay is a deal breaker for me with a lot of EF glass, do you not think that this issue should be solvable in firmware? I hope Z Cam sends you their upcoming E2 6K with EF mount to test! 😉🙏🏾
Eugene... I think what it needs is third parties to be interested in making accessories for Kinefinity. Presumably it needs more sales before its worth their while. Foe example, Metabones have cracked the Canon lens profiles... Maybe they should make one?
from a documentary filmmaker perspective, can this record onboard sound? 1) from a run-and-gun workflow, maybe we have only a clapper and a field recorder for double-system sound while recording the "clap" of the slate on the onboard single-system sound; 2) or if budget allows, can we have a master SMPTE TC clock that we can jam-sync at the beginning of the recording session and lock-and-forget for the rest of the shooting day? any info would be greatly appreciated!
Hi, yes, I automatically assumed this high end cinema camera would have internal sound and timecode... my bad, sorry. The biggest failing for me with run-and-gun type shooting is the lack of in-built ND filters. I know they offer some adaptors with variND, but that doesn't give you the option of totally clear? To answer your questions: 1) Yes you have 2 channels of on-board sound - in-built mic or 3.5mm input on the camera or 2x full size XLR inputs with the Kineback. 2) Yes timecode is recorded internally and you can input and output timecode with the Kineback. You basically want the Kineback for anything run-and-gun! Cheers, Paul
extrashot thanks for putting me on to this body, esp the e mount possibility since i’m invested in leica r glass adapted for e mount. now it’s just a matter of seeing how the a7siii stacks up to this for me
@@GeoffreyGonzales Join the long line of people waiting to see the A7sIII... or the FS7III... I keep hearing rumours but have no idea when. I was also keen on the e-mount as lots of nice glass has now been adapted for this. Good call on the Leica's
@@extrashot actually their new evf/7inch highbright monitor plus renewed 5inch monitor are already in production and they will start shipping very soon.
Ahhh... thanks Lucas, you must have the latest version... I was told some later MAVO's had this... and I think there is some new firmware coming that lets you change the button assignments. Seems they are reacting quickly to what users want. Thanks for the comment. Paul
Dare i ask what cameras are top of your list then? Ursa mini pro? c200? That panasonic one with the 5.7k sensor? Having compared my A7iii to the F5 the other day, the F5 is starting too look soft in comparison, and with less desirable colour science.
I think the colour science on the F5 is looking a little dated now... and there's no doubt that you need greater than 4K sensor for good 4K deliverables, just to make up for the bayer filter on these single chip cams. You can guess that my list starts at 4.6K and goes up!
I agree ... Kinefinity is almost there with a real camera that would be multi-purpose. I've been watching this camera company since it's beginnings and have seen the company move up to play with the big boys in a serious way. I'm not so sure about their transformation software SCRATCH competing with Resolve as I've never worked with it and most certainly I would trade BRAW for DNG files any day of the week. I guess what I'm saying is that they are not quite there yet.
If this is somewhere in the middle of your list, whats near the top? Im currently looking at upgrading from my Canon C200, as it has no codec options besides mp4 or raw, and has no usable slow motion.
Top of my list is currently the Sony Venice... but it's way out of my clients price range !!! - I'm a big fan of the C200, love the RAW light. Still think shooting compressed RAW has to be the way forward for quality pictures... and I love the skin tones on the C200. It might be worth waiting to see what the new 8K Canon is going to bring... they leaked it during the recent Apple Pro launch! The problem with cameras in this range is we start to hit the issue of diminishing returns !
I still don't get what is wrong with your F5 (have u got a raw recorder which you can or cannot use as per you desire) What is missing from the F5? AF? look at a C200 18-80? What does this camera give beyond your F5? Possible upgrade from F5.. F55! The main thing we see in this vid is your need for AF (or an excellent VF at least) :) And no there would be no space for ND with the E-mount.
There's nothing wrong with my F5... it's just when you look at the lovely pictures coming from cheaper, smaller, better cameras... the Sony colour science is starting to look a little dated. I often want higher resolution for true 4K output too.... plus if Sony come out with a "Little Venice" soon, then my deposit will disappear! Thanks for spotting the soft shots... my excuse is that I couldn't see anything in the sunlight !!! (and I'm sticking with that) 😁
@@extrashot Of course your shots are OOF if you cant see what you are shooting (esp at 4k LF). Its obvious. (I got a load of stuff OOF in my last trip to super bright Zambia) Your F5 has a viewfinder which would sort that? The C200 has both a (suprisingly good/comforable) viewfinder and AF that is pretty decent. Resolution ?- Skyfall looked OK at 3k. Colour? a decent LUT should sort the F5 - or shooting raw? Im sure this camera is great as a crew camera with a focus puller etc, but as far as I know that is not what you do?
koko ook, interesting... I was talking to ProAV about this (they are in the UK).... And they've just started serviceing Kinefinity in house whenever possible... At least that helps with those six weeks delay sending to China and back! But you're right... It's an important consideration if you're shooting professionally.
@@extrashot I canceled my Mavo preorder after 2 months , 10 emails and 0 replies :) good that you have local distributor and service center, I don't :)
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Thank you Sir for sharing! You managed to navigate the subjects of the good, the bad and the ugly of this camera in a dignifying and respectful manner which commanded not only my confidence but my trust! Cheers! 🍺😉👍🏻
...and thank you for the very kind words, it's appreciated. Paul 👍
Thank you so much for yet another great review video. Kinefinity user/ owner since 2013. This video is detailed, technical, full of information and spoken in a pleasant to hear manner, which unfortunately is something most people struggle with nowadays. They think faster is better and then mistake fast for rushed and talk as if they have a train to catch. 🙂 The importance of pauses, silences… At the right moment, is so often neglected but, not in your videos.
Really sorry it’s taken so long to reply… I was taking a break from RUclips!
Thank you so much for the kind words... it's one of the reasons I'm back!
Thank you.
If it made it to extra shot and got your thumb of approval. It gets mine. Simple as that. I've been watching kinefinity for about 4 years and this camera is truly impressive.
Gregory, the picture quality is tight up there with the best in class. Definitely worth continuing to watch...
@@extrashot amen to that. My budget doesnt allow for the mavo but my budget would allow for terra 4k. If you happen to get your hands on one of those, please review. Also, what were your thoughts on the kinefinity customer service? I know your in UK but I'm in the states. That would be kind of a a deal breaker if I cant get it fixed in the United states
@@gnkstudios6138 Hi Gregory... sorry your message went into spam for some reason?... anyway, yes, very good point... customer service is a sensible concern with any pro camera purchase. There was an issue in the UK... but things look as though they are getting better as the main UK dealer is now becoming authorised to make most repairs locally. I don't know how many spares and parts they carry yet, but not having to send it back to China for every silly fault is a major plus. I know this was a stumbling block for many purchasers. Hopefully Kinefinity will be doing the same for dealers in the States?... they definitely should if they want pro's to take them seriously.
The review itself is of great quality and finally we're getting back to people speaking at a normal speed for people who like to digest what they're listening to... As opposed to very nervous kids trying to come across as smarter by talking as if they have a train to catch, to an audience with short attention span.
mikungfu ha... thank you... others said I sounded tired!!!
@@extrashot You're welcome. Some people tend to mistake being fast and efficient, with being rushed and impatient.
I actually had to watch this at 2x the speed! I'm 33, but am definitely victim to the lower-attention span generation. But at the same time, I can absorb a lot of information in a shorter amount of time. I'm also a filmmaker/editor, which factors in, as I often have to watch interview raw footage at twice the speed, or i'd get no work done, so i'm used to it. Never the less, absolutely nothing against this video or the delivery by Mr ExtraShot, all top quality. Just thought it was funny to mention! I've been eyeing this camera up from afar for some time. Great to hear the pros and cons.
@@alex_pasquini Tell you what Alex... I'll try real hard to talk a bit faster and make them shorter. I also find myself hitting the 2x button sometimes so I know where you're coming from. (my pet hate is people who spend the first 3 minutes telling you what they are going to be telling you!). Thanks for taking the time to comment - it's appreciated. Paul 😎
The copy from ProAV is an old version, so the side buttons were not labled, mine was labled WB ST ISO etc.
Yes... I noticed at the recent IBC that they had improved the labelling. Looks like they are serious about listening to their customers which is great. 👍
Thanks for confirming.
@@extrashot also make sure you try the new firmware that enables 4k wide 150fps, its just superb
@@kefang6929 It's amazing how fast these things are advancing... and good point, thank you👍
Just being a bit nerdy here. They did release a firmware with which you can reprogram the buttons and with newers batches they changed the 1234 buttons signs into wb iso shutter... And their current 5inch monitor will be soon replaced by a new design, 7inch coming next month and evf coming in August. But yeah, i feel like they need a bit extra spark that makes their camera shine, hope they get that with their future generation cameras.
Well Well ahh.... That sounds interesting.... I've just heard about a remap of the buttons in some beta firmware due soon.... Don't dismiss the nerdiness... Celibrate it!!!
Props on the cool intro, loved the voice. Just had to sub. Cheers to seeing more of your content... Aha, okay, mighty cool video too.
Thanks Manuel, very kind 👍
Nice to see another video from you again. Nice cinema camera, but out of my price range. Still miss your friend/colleague you used to do videos with the GH5/GH5s.
Thank you... and you should see him here again soon! 👍
I hope so, you guys make a great double act team! :) Oh and I am making a film with my GH5. www.indiegogo.com/projects/mother-wild#/
and yet - $13K wow. such a gorgeous picture.
For such a professional looking image... it's great value as a work tool.
what is that godly peaceful closing shot building of? Thanks for the Red / Arri comparisons!
Hi Arthur... it's Christchurch Priory Church from the river Avon (Dorset UK). I keep going there to get a feel for dynamic range simply because there's loads of highlights and shadows when the sun pops out. Picturesque spot!
@@extrashot Nice! Et unum sint
Well... kinefinity name is not bad. Something like
Cine + Infinity
I get it.... maybe it'll grow on me? 🙄
i think it's cool too. in german kino also means cinema, so it has some thinking behind it
Thanks, great review.
While I'm sure Arri and RED are not exactly shaking in their boots, they should be looking down the mountain to see who is rapidly moving their way up. With cameras like this Kinefinity, the soon to be released Panasonic S1H, Sony A7S III, the already released BMPCC4k, GH5s, Nikon Z6, - heck even Fuji went from worst video specs to one of the best with the X-T3 - it's clear that companies small and large are moving aggressively to offer lower cost/higher quality cams for independent productions.
And lenses are also getting cheaper - Fuji's line of MK lenses for E mount, Fuji X and soon to be released M 4/3 is a budget cinema lens that competes with the bigs.
I think the big boys should be shaking... the speed at which these things have been improving is quite breathtaking. Great time to be shooting pictures on a budget... as you say, the costs have been dropping fast. However, I'm not sure what full frame is going to do to the price of parfocal lenses though !!! Thank you for making good points... so much choice.
perhaps democratization will mean more amateur schlock productions to compete with, but at the same time, perhaps wresting some control away from the Usurers who control Hollywood? At which point Gates et al will have to get more desperate to chip us all using virus vaccination as an excuse, to force us onto their cashless system, whereby filmmakers who dare to expose the System will be cut off from services, money, food, etc. My how dystopian! lol. It's the Usurers who should fear.
It would be interesting to see a review of the Z-Cam F6/F8 when they become available they are giving Kinefinity/Red a good stab at a 4/5k GBP price point.
True, and the specs look great on paper. I definitely want to get to try one.
Thank you for sharing your opinion on this! I do have to say that you're extremely pleasant to listen to, so, well done on that! I wish I had a budget for the Mavo LF or even the S35 6K version tbh, it looks absolutely amazing picture-wise. Although, my BMPCC4K aint bad either, just a lot more workarounds to be made (rigging etc).
Paul Defaire The colour science in the BMPCC4K is right up there with the big budget cameras...have fun, you've got a great camera!... And thanks for your comment, it's appreciated 👍
Thanks for the review! Did you get a chance to check out the audio capabilities of the Mavo, especially with the Kineback? Like mapping a mic to two channels to have a safety track, stuff that would be helpful for documentary shooting. There seems to be missing a lot in this department as far as I have read online.
Martin Friedrich, all I noticed was two XLR tracks on the Kineback... Very basic. However, it was interesting to see that these were recorded on the SSD as separate WAV files in the same folder as the video.... Massive plus when recording high frame rates because you've still got audio (at real time). Ie. Slowmo with real audio!
Thanks Paul. Great real world user info that is vital information for me. The aperture delay is a deal breaker for me with a lot of EF glass, do you not think that this issue should be solvable in firmware? I hope Z Cam sends you their upcoming E2 6K with EF mount to test! 😉🙏🏾
Eugene... I think what it needs is third parties to be interested in making accessories for Kinefinity. Presumably it needs more sales before its worth their while. Foe example, Metabones have cracked the Canon lens profiles... Maybe they should make one?
from a documentary filmmaker perspective, can this record onboard sound?
1) from a run-and-gun workflow, maybe we have only a clapper and a field recorder for double-system sound while recording the "clap" of the slate on the onboard single-system sound;
2) or if budget allows, can we have a master SMPTE TC clock that we can jam-sync at the beginning of the recording session and lock-and-forget for the rest of the shooting day?
any info would be greatly appreciated!
Hi, yes, I automatically assumed this high end cinema camera would have internal sound and timecode... my bad, sorry.
The biggest failing for me with run-and-gun type shooting is the lack of in-built ND filters. I know they offer some adaptors with variND, but that doesn't give you the option of totally clear? To answer your questions:
1) Yes you have 2 channels of on-board sound - in-built mic or 3.5mm input on the camera or 2x full size XLR inputs with the Kineback.
2) Yes timecode is recorded internally and you can input and output timecode with the Kineback.
You basically want the Kineback for anything run-and-gun! Cheers, Paul
Good luck on your quest for a replacement camera. So many options it won't be easy. A mini Venice would be nice.
I'm in no rush, although I have a feeling that the replacement FS7/F5 isn't far away! I'm hoping for the 'Little Venice'. Take care Erik
Just wondered if you caught the news release of the 'Sept shipping' of the 8K Mavo 'Edge'?
I did... the specs look really good and the added features pretty much address all the issues I had with the Mavo LF. Can't wait to try it out... 👍
looks amazing
extrashot thanks for putting me on to this body, esp the e mount possibility since i’m invested in leica r glass adapted for e mount.
now it’s just a matter of seeing how the a7siii stacks up to this for me
@@GeoffreyGonzales Join the long line of people waiting to see the A7sIII... or the FS7III... I keep hearing rumours but have no idea when. I was also keen on the e-mount as lots of nice glass has now been adapted for this. Good call on the Leica's
extrashot will just have to make due until then; heard there should be an announcement sometime this fall
@@extrashot actually their new evf/7inch highbright monitor plus renewed 5inch monitor are already in production and they will start shipping very soon.
Good job, love it 🥰
Thank you... kind of you to comment. 👍
my mavic LF side buttons are marked by SH, ND, ISO, WB instead of 1,2,3,4...
Ahhh... thanks Lucas, you must have the latest version... I was told some later MAVO's had this... and I think there is some new firmware coming that lets you change the button assignments. Seems they are reacting quickly to what users want. Thanks for the comment. Paul
Arriflex wasn’t a ”cool name” until it was
Good point... well made.
I hadn't really thought about that one! 👍
Dare i ask what cameras are top of your list then? Ursa mini pro? c200? That panasonic one with the 5.7k sensor?
Having compared my A7iii to the F5 the other day, the F5 is starting too look soft in comparison, and with less desirable colour science.
I think the colour science on the F5 is looking a little dated now... and there's no doubt that you need greater than 4K sensor for good 4K deliverables, just to make up for the bayer filter on these single chip cams. You can guess that my list starts at 4.6K and goes up!
I agree ... Kinefinity is almost there with a real camera that would be multi-purpose. I've been watching this camera company since it's beginnings and have seen the company move up to play with the big boys in a serious way. I'm not so sure about their transformation software SCRATCH competing with Resolve as I've never worked with it and most certainly I would trade BRAW for DNG files any day of the week. I guess what I'm saying is that they are not quite there yet.
Dean Harrington... Agreed, but they are getting closer, day by day.
Yep!
If this is somewhere in the middle of your list, whats near the top? Im currently looking at upgrading from my Canon C200, as it has no codec options besides mp4 or raw, and has no usable slow motion.
Top of my list is currently the Sony Venice... but it's way out of my clients price range !!! - I'm a big fan of the C200, love the RAW light. Still think shooting compressed RAW has to be the way forward for quality pictures... and I love the skin tones on the C200. It might be worth waiting to see what the new 8K Canon is going to bring... they leaked it during the recent Apple Pro launch! The problem with cameras in this range is we start to hit the issue of diminishing returns !
I still don't get what is wrong with your F5 (have u got a raw recorder which you can or cannot use as per you desire) What is missing from the F5? AF? look at a C200 18-80? What does this camera give beyond your F5? Possible upgrade from F5.. F55! The main thing we see in this vid is your need for AF (or an excellent VF at least) :) And no there would be no space for ND with the E-mount.
There's nothing wrong with my F5... it's just when you look at the lovely pictures coming from cheaper, smaller, better cameras... the Sony colour science is starting to look a little dated. I often want higher resolution for true 4K output too.... plus if Sony come out with a "Little Venice" soon, then my deposit will disappear! Thanks for spotting the soft shots... my excuse is that I couldn't see anything in the sunlight !!! (and I'm sticking with that) 😁
@@extrashot Of course your shots are OOF if you cant see what you are shooting (esp at 4k LF). Its obvious. (I got a load of stuff OOF in my last trip to super bright Zambia) Your F5 has a viewfinder which would sort that? The C200 has both a (suprisingly good/comforable) viewfinder and AF that is pretty decent. Resolution ?- Skyfall looked OK at 3k. Colour? a decent LUT should sort the F5 - or shooting raw? Im sure this camera is great as a crew camera with a focus puller etc, but as far as I know that is not what you do?
u sak
it's is not because of the name, but because of their non existent customer service,
well, at least at the time when i crossed it off my list :)
koko ook, interesting... I was talking to ProAV about this (they are in the UK).... And they've just started serviceing Kinefinity in house whenever possible... At least that helps with those six weeks delay sending to China and back! But you're right... It's an important consideration if you're shooting professionally.
@@extrashot I canceled my Mavo preorder after 2 months , 10 emails and 0 replies :)
good that you have local distributor and service center, I don't :)
koko ook, That's not good... Don't blame you. You want support on such a large investment.