ULTRA ORTHODOX: Hasidic Jewish Sect FORCED Her to Marry & Consummate with a Stranger
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- Опубликовано: 21 май 2024
- *Content warning: Sexual Abuse/Sexual Discussions* A brave and fierce mother, Chavie Weisberger, divulges the deepest, darkest corners of her life from growing up in a very strict ultra-orthodox sect of Judaism ran by her grandfather. She shares her heart-wrenching custody battle and how the courts forced her to conform to the religion years after she had left it behind. Listen with caution, this episode is as heavy as it is inspirational and incredible.
Watch more of Chavie's story with her child, Ruby, here: • FORCED Ultra Orthodox ...
Chapter Markers
00:00:00 Intro
00:02:31 What is Hasidic Judaism?
00:05:06 The restrictions she grew up with
00:06:42 The extreme modesty guidelines (no red)
00:11:12 Her "formal" sex education at 18 yrs old
00:17:14 Did she feel ready or excited about sex with her husband?
00:19:11 Not understanding her sexual connection with women as an issue
00:22:46 Forced consummation
00:28:36 Religious practices before/during sex
00:31:59 What happened once she went to therapy...
00:38:53 25 yrs old, divorced with 3 children under 5....HOW?
00:43:38 The reason her kids were swiftly taken away
00:47:37 Court ordered her to HIDE her values from her kids. Forced conformity.
00:52:12 Forced to keep kids in Hasidic community
00:54:51 How the kids are doing now
00:58:55 Linda, Listen
Resource for people who need help leaving Hasidic Judaism
footstepsorg.org/
For a Male perspective, check out this video with Yohanan
• Ex-Hasidic Man Sues Qu...
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Theme Song Produced and Composed by Christian Guevara
*Disclaimer: Thanks for joining us at Cults to Consciousness. This storytelling podcast is meant to be for entertainment purposes only and does not substitute for medical advice. We may discuss triggering topics and we ask that you make your personal mental health a priority. Lastly, the opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host.*
To hear a man's perspective from someone who experienced Hasidic communities in London, New York and Quebec, check out Yohanan's story here! ruclips.net/video/MLyBzMFbJdM/видео.html
I would love to hear you interview somebody that left the Hasidic community but doesn’t have any bitterness. Her bitterness is justified but to get an objective perspective it would need to come from someone that left the community but doesn’t have any bitterness and hate towards the community
I think in order to have the energy to leave your community and family you need have a stronge urge. This strong urge is often fuelled by an impact that is felt as negative and even unbearable.
I would like to express my opinion that the actions of Chavy were likely traumatizing for their children. Living in a Hasidic community and sending their children to a Hasidic religious school, the individual abruptly transitioned from dressing in a fully Hasidic manner to wearing jeans and not wearing a wig and based on her social media presence at the time, it appears that they also dyed their hair bright pink. This sudden and drastic change could be likened to a scenario where a Catholic father in a Catholic community established to practice and instill Catholic values without the influence of liberal secular culture suddenly became transgender and began dressing as a woman, which would likely be traumatic for the children. In my view, this behavior is selfish, and I agree with the judge's decision to grant custody to the father until it is established that the individual is capable of prioritizing their children's well-being above their own.
Furthermore, the couple got married with the intention of raising a religious family, and they brought children into the world with this goal in mind. I believe that the partner who wishes to deviate from this goal should require the other partner's consent.
With regard to her claim that they lost their job due to their transition, I find it surprising that they would even raise this issue. Their job was as a writer for a Jewish magazine that instills Jewish religious values for women, and it seems incompatible with the nature of the job for them to have continued in it while undergoing such a drastic change. If the magazine had not terminated their employment, that would have been hypocritical.
Regarding her assertion that the community rallied against them and even their friends did not support their desire to have custody of their children, it is apparent to me that Hasidic Jews have a value system that emphasizes adherence to religious values and observance. In their eyes, the ultimate goal for a Jew is to be religious and observant, and their desire for the individual and their children to conform to this value system can be seen as an expression of love and concern for their well-being. It is comparable to a scenario in which a young professional woman with a great job becomes involved in drugs and moves into a "whore house" with her criminal boyfriend, taking her children with her. In this case, it would be natural for relatives and friends to intervene in an effort to help the woman and her children, as they believe it is what is best for them.
@@miguelsarosa5927 In southern Utah there is a fundamentalist Mormon community led by Warren Jeffs who claims to be a prophet of God. In this fundamentalist community of Latter Day Saints, known as FLDS, the women are taught at an early age that they have no authority over themselves. They are taught to be submissive to men and to speak in soft tones. Keep sweet is the motto. They are all home schooled with using only educational material that supports their cult ideas about God and women. Warren himself taught classes to young girls on how to sexually please their husbands. The girls were married off at a young age and had to start having babies themselves. There is a creepy picture on the internet that shows Warren kissing a 12 year old girl. He is now serving time in prison for rape and sexual abuse. When women tried to leave the community their children were taken away from them. Much like what happened in Chavy's community. Warren arranged the marriages of these little girls to complete strangers and apparently is still running the church from prison...telling women who they can marry and even controlling the sexual practices of married couples. Are you seeing a pattern here? With fundamentalist religions that are run by men who say they speak for God? When Warren Jeffs was arrested he had 78 wives and over 60 children. The youngest wife was only 12. About your comment that the couple got married with the intent of raising a religious family...the couple was indoctrinated or one might even say brainwashed. There was no free will or consent because they were raised to obey the religious elders. I do not believe this is the way a trusting loving God would work. When authorities went into the FLDS community to rescue the women and children the women refused to go. Because they had been brainwashed into believing their eternal salvation rested upon being completely obedient to Warren Jeffs. The children were very traumatized. You can see them crying in photos. Does that mean the authorities should have just left them there? What do you think was the best thing for these children? To continue to live in the community and be brainwashed into being obedient and subservient to a pedophile leader? You compare this brave young women to a whore house scenario where it would be natural for relatives and friends to intervene...what do you think about the children in the FLDS community? The community intervened when women tried to leave the cult because they believe their "religion" is from God and that their leader, Warren, was an actual prophet. They were doing what they thought was best for the children. But it was the acts of brainwashed, illiterate, uninformed, uneducated, indoctrinated...do I need to use any more synonyms? I am hoping you get my drift here. High demand cult like religions that are run by men who claim to speak for God are usually about control and power which is always vested in the men. Oh and always about sex. Let's not forget the sex. The men control all the women, who are taught to be obedient and submissive. It doesn't matter whether we are talking about Mormons or Catholics or Baptists or evangelical Christians or Jehovahs Witnesses or in this case Hasidic Jews. It's about men claiming to speak for God and therefore they have all the power and use it to exercise control over the rest of the men and all the women. And it never seems to bother anyone that God tells each group different rules and laws and each religion always claims to be the one TRUE religion. It is patriarchy at its finest and after reading your comments you sound like you would fit right into any of these communities. The problem, which actually is turning into the solution, is that women are now saying no. Women are now speaking up all over the world and saying no. We don't believe men's teachings about God anymore. I don't believe an omniscient, omnipotent being would behave in this way. Women the world over are saying..this is not God. And men are in a panic because they do not want to lose the power they have over more than 50 percent of the population of the world. But Miguel...you are going to have to get over it. If humanity is going to progress we need to call out abuse and bad behavior whenever we see it. And its evident fundamentalist religions are abusive no matter which God they pray to.
@@katsmith2343 I don’t see how you addressed any of my points. If you want to say that the Hasidic community is a cult, you are entitled to have this opinion. I wasn’t addressing that.
Can we take a moment to applaud all the powerful women who stand up against oppression that men brought upon us.
👏🏻
Amen to that!!! But you know, they are so afraid of us women because they realize we are smart, strong, and can make our own ways in the world. Their egos are so fragile that they think they must squash us down and control us and prevent us from realizing our full potentials. They also like to guilt us to weaken us. They’re pretty narcissistic.
Many times women are complicit in oppression.
@@user-od3dq1te3f only because they had literally no other choices. If women wanted to stand up to men in lots of cases they would be risking death! So "complicit" isn't the right word because that would imply that women WANTED to be/and still are oppressed. I'm assuming that you have at least half a mind to know that no one wants that
I don’t like to blame “men” But rather abusers- she is a brave person!
Can we all take a moment to applaud the Rabbi from Israel who actually told her it would be healthiest for her to leave the marriage since she was clearly unhappy and not in love? AND gave her practical advice on how to do that safely?? Absolute chad.
absolutely!!!!
To be honest most rabbis I met were sane people. They can look extremely conservative but in fact many of them enjoy a good company and good wine and wouldn’t support abuse of women and children. Lots of synagogues in Europe are some sort of cultural centres for Jews to practice their language and traditions. Most of times any person of Jewish ancestry is welcomed despite them not following 600+ commands.
What’s “Chad”?
In this context, it just means "great guy". If you want to know the full context of using "Chad" in this way, you can do a Google search for "know your meme chad" and learn about the memes behind it.
@@tellmeofyourhomeworldusul6060
nah! @@Nastasyashanti
I too am Chavi. Not her. But a woman who went through what she did. I had my 9 year old daughter kidnapped by my own siblings after leaving the hasidic community in 2015… and I’m in London. This is worldwide. Thank you for sharing your story. You are a true inspiration ❤
That’s awful!❤️
@@CultstoConsciousnessit is. But it’s also something that as women we expect to have happen to us if we dare leave. It’s sad that I have to be grateful that after fighting in court to get her back I did eventually win. Why should a mother be grateful to be one of the “lucky ones” who fought successfully and got custody of her child back?
@@diaryofanotdgirl89 In case you don't know, there's an organisation called Mavar who can help you if you're in the UK & need something. It doesn't matter how long ago you left. I wish you much happiness.
No words for how sorry I am for you and your daughter. I hope you are doing okay. I was raised Frum, but not Chassidish. My siblings all became super extreme Charedi. I’m not in touch with them anymore they are very good people but very traumatized and damaged and hiding in religious extremism/OCD instead of getting some help. Anyway, I digressed but just wanted to let you know I am very, very sorry to hear. I hope you are doing okay. Hugs.
men lose their kids all the time, but that doesn't outrage you
As a former muslim i used to be jealous of the Hasidic community. I loved how close knit it seemed and how serious they took living their commandments. But now i believe all religion needs to be done away with.
Not every person lives Chavie’s experience, nor yours. For some, religion is beautiful. For others, we experience ecclesiastical homelessness because we want that community but have not yet found it.
As a modern Orthodox Jew, it’s so crazy how the same creed can be taken to such extremes. I’m so thankful I grew up in such a moderate, open, and spiritual Jewish environment where I actually got to enjoy my religion and allow it to enhance my life instead of ruin and restrict it
Hi Bayla! I love these types of comments because they are respectful and don’t discount someone else’s experience simply because they didn’t experience the same thing. This, while also providing insight into different sects that are positive. Thank you for sharing!
Yeah for sure! Some of my older siblings grew up when my parents were still married and practicing in a much more extreme way, and there experiences were very different! I especially enjoy modern orthodoxy because if being religious isn’t for you, like some of my brothers felt, you can still enjoy being connected to your family, community, and Judaism. Isn’t that the whole point of religion, bringing everyone together and living universal love. Learning and challenging yourself to do and be better for yourself and others even when things are uncomfortable and complicated ❤
@@baylamakarov8701 no the point of religion is obeying gd and his laws which specifically say one must do things like observing shabbat laws and keeping kosher etc.
@@CultstoConsciousness Chassidic Judaism and Modern Orthodox Judasim are worlds apart, so I dont think either of us (Modern orthodox Jews) should be seen as speaking for that group
@@gothicyid man made laws like only eating specific salt, having separate sinks etc is ridiculous . Obeying God, observing the Sabbath and loving others should be the goal
Omg when she talked about her 20 yo going to college, and exploring relationships and themselves as opposed to being forced into a marriage and having babies like she was at that age, I just felt all the work she did that payed off for her and her children.
yup ruined her children sooooo sad for them
@@simakaufman8856 bitter much?
@simakaufman8856 wtf so be forced into marriage. With a stranger is better..having to submit to a man and provide as well..sick why are you even here listening
* paid , paid off
@@simakaufman8856 Go ahead. Prove this…I’ll wait
I left the Mormon faith when my bishop told me I had to get permission from my abuser to obtain a "temple divorce" after my legal one. I can't imagine how bad it would have been had we had children. My heart aches for women like this who have so much more trouble leaving their old lives and for those who are still trapped.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. I hope you found freedom
Are you atheist now?
You have a legal divorce that's All you Need! Screw their religious BS!
@@WendyMG247 do you understand it scary when you get out those cults, since you were born you being indoctrinated a curtain way, once you open your eyes and leave all that it change you feel alone and they outcast you from the community, you feel lost and alone, that why lot people go back or remain in those cults even if they became atheists cuz they don't want to be alone and isolated
@@WendyMG247 Agree.
As much as I am horrified at, and grieve along with Chavi for the abuses of her upbringing and her marriage, and I am even MORE impressed by her dedication to her children to obey the unfair court rulings that she had to, basically, pretend to be hassidic for her children all those years. I highly, highly respect the personal sacrifices that she made in order for her children to have their mother in their lives and to be able to be a bridge to freedom for them once they were grown. That is truly self-sacrificing and admirable. God bless them all.
I’m glad it paid off in the end but she should not have had to do that when her only “crime” was refusing to bow down to a religion she didn’t agree with.
Where the heck were the Constitutional experts during all this?
I agree heartily that she shouldn't have had to do it, but I really respect that she did.@@rowanhard
@@Selahsmum
For sure.
@@rowanhardI was also wondering about the separation of Church and State. This did should not have happened. How does any religious group of men get a pass demanding that an ex member dress accordingly?
@@rorosanchez1538I’m wondering this too! Who are these judges that allow and help enforce this abuse?!? Absolutely infuriating. Makes me want to go to law school just to fight the patriarchy.
As someone who bore witness to Chavie's struggle, and as someone who left the hasidic community myself and is raising my 16 year old outside of the confines of fundamentalism, I am in constant awe of Chavie and the strength that was required to come through this so successfully, with so much grace. Chavie is one of the most beautiful, mindful, skillful people I have ever been fortunate to meet. And seeing her kids come into their own has been a gift as well. Thank you, Chavie, for sharing your story so selflessly. And for giving your children the gift of freedom.
Thank you for sharing that insight! That’s so beautiful ❤️
It doent mean much, but personally I think NYC needs to stop coddling the Hasid, and put their children into the regular NYC school system with everyone else.
Why would a court side with a religion and force you into to it isn't there separation of church and state I don't understand wouldn't this be unconstitutional
@Cheryl Mersand if you know anything about cults...they don't care about secular law. And there are countries (like the UK) that defer to religious courts before governing with the country's own laws.
@@cherylmersand1077 I remember there being a push towards legally protecting the cultural ties of children not too long ago. Might have something to do with that, because one way or another, Hasidism is ***more*** than just a religon. Like the Amish, or the tribal knowlege of the proper First Peoples of the Americas.
I was married to a Jehovah's Witness and I can see so many similarities in beliefs (especially with how women are viewed). I remember when I got divorced I was 25, with a 5 year old son with cerebral palsy, living abroad and being completely alone (because not only did I not have family in the country, he isolated me from all of my friends) and just having mixed feelings of relief, anger and fear. I'm now 43 years old and I can still recall that moment I got my freedom back- it felt like I was given a second chance at life, like being brought back from the dead.
Hi Kat! I’m so sorry you went through that. I’m proud of you for finding your freedom. I just recorded another JW episode where the wife wasn’t religious :) coming soon!
@@CultstoConsciousnessyay! As ANOTHER exJW, I look forward to this.
🙏🏾☮️🙏🏾
I am a ex -jw . Born and raise until 40 years old. Until i have a baby with donw síndrome and need a Heart cirurgy. I chose live and freedom. Love from Portugal 🌻
Amazing!! How interesting!
It never fails to annoy me when ANY religion is allowed to suspend the constitution. This is why separation of church and state is important. Only people who want to force their beliefs on others are against that separation.
Congrats to anyone who escapes religious suppression.
100% agree
The God of the Christians and Jews put the killing of the innocent as an abomination. It was the demonic worship of the Moloch pagan religion that sponsored killing of children so that religion sponsored that and the God of the Jews forbade it. The law of Moses was strict because only God can fulfill it and He did. Luke 24:44. It is not about religion being bad, it is about sinning that is the problem with mankind.
You misunderstand the concept of separation of church and state. That was written into the bill of rights to keep the GOVERNMENT FROM infringing onto how one believes AND to keep the government from forcing a national religion.
there is no separation of church and state: just look at the concept of marriage . I think that there should only non religious civil unions accepted by the state . Religious weddings/ matrimony ceremonies can be private .
@@gailalbers1430 Well, marriage is just a legal contract and requires not even one of these cultural and religious rites many people attach to them. The legal contract is the same for everyone no matter what the religion or no religion at all.
By the way, I stumbled on this podcast accidentally and didnt think I would want to hear about the terrible experiences other women have gone through, but Ive been rivited by every story Ive listened to, and have learned so much and gotten such insight from them. I feel a newfound sense of connection to other women and a much deeper empathy to women I never thought I had any connection with. Its given me a strong sense of sisterhood, so well done! This is a wonderful and important series.
Thank you so much for sharing that. I’m so so so happy to hear it! Yes, the strength of these women is amazing and I’m also always learning from them. Welcome to C2C!😁❤️
Shut up Sharon do you know how rare it is for to find a virgin guy or girl in the 21st century that is over the age of 16? This is a beautiful thing the only tragedy is this unbelieving girl who thinks she's a lesbian and people like you up play her homosexuality and act like it's the norm. No it's not the norm but if for some weird reason it was the norm and the entire world embraced it humankind would cease to exist
So well said! I totally feel the same. These women are my heroines x
Honestly same. It sounds like it would be depressing but you know what, it’s not at all, it’s so incredibly inspiring to see women who made it through to the other side.. especially when you’re still in the storm or it hasn’t even begun yet
I don't understand how the husband just reads the Torah all day and the wife is expected to do EVERYTHING else. What kind of man just sits around and lets that happen? So unfair.
Right even Jesus worked it's said he was a carpenter 🤷🏽♀️
Those men, women, girls, and boys raised to think women are lesser and definitely not allowed to feel equal. Misogyny is learned and implemented with no second thought. Also, guess which gender that is in power over the other decided it was a good idea to not do any work?
its culture.
@@ah5721 A lot of cultures are founded on patriarchy that’s not new. Doesn’t make it any less ridiculous
That must be soooo boring - doesn't he want to do anything else?
The family court system is SO fucked up. More often than we realize the more problematic parent “wins”. She is so brave and strong.
I couldn't agree more! I was a child whose problematic parent (male in this case)won the custody battle because he was used to using his looks & charm on female social workers & judges, to get what he wanted. This was despite my mother having documented physical injuries such as a broken nose etc. She never pressed charges & didn't get restraining orders until after he'd won custody (it wasn't us he wanted but the house). In my experience 9 times out of 10 if a man tries to get sole custody from a mother (not shared) there's a good chance he's abusive or/and doesn't want to pay child support/wants child support himself/wants the family home. No decent man will remove kids from their mother's love. Even if mum has mental health issues, good father's recognise kids need to bond & make sure they're with her as much as she's able. Unless she's *literally living with a pedophile* always suspect a man who tries to remove kids from their mother *completely*
@@annabizaro-doo-dah I’m so sorry you had to deal with all of that. Your story is my worst nightmare. My ex sued me for full custody a few years ago, but it thankfully didn’t go anywhere. I have a feeling he may try again soon, but I’m better prepared this time. But typically the family court system doesn’t take into consideration what’s best for the child, only what’s “fair” for the parents. If one parent is good at manipulating, that “fairness” goes right out the door.
Good luck to you and your mum recovering from the abuse you received. ♥️
In Germany it´s worse. Child marriage wasn´t made illegal until 2017- now the state is debating whether to allow it again. That is why all the Muslims in the world want to go to Germany. They lived here with 6-year-old wives without punishment for decades.
Agreed. My sibilings (i didnt live with them) were pulled from our mother and placed with their fateral grandparents who was abusive to the father. They are still unpacking from that decison.
She didn't go b4 a judge in open court, she appeared b4 a hassidic judge in the court that the community sets up and runs, my god i can't believe everyone thinks this happened in a regular public court, the state of New York allows them to govern themselves, it happens under the guise of religious freedom protections and allowances
This wedding night sounds horrific and traumatizing for both the man and the woman. This woman is so brave.
For sure the worst for the woman because it's the woman who is p@netrated and therefore violated. It's definitely not the same level of trauma for a man, not even close!
She smiles so much and brings so much positivity allthough she ‘s been in hard moments and traumas. Great soul!
I grew up in an orthodox household and in an ultra-orthodox community and left when I was 16, I just wanna say this video made me feel so happy and seen. It is so difficult for me to find similar stories to my own, it often feels isolating. Thank you so much for posting this and talking about the topic in a respectful way that does not encourage antisematism (because I find this topic often encourages others to be antisemetic unfortunatly ): ) Keep posting videos like this!
Hi! I’m so so so happy to hear that you feel heard and seen through chavie’s experience. And that it came across as was intended, not to shame a group of people, but to inform on what can go on and share her specific experience. I will be posting a man’s perspective this week.
Any true story or experience shouldn't be suppressed due to fear of antisemitism. The fact that antisemitism exists should not come at the expense of someone like Chavy sharing a personal anecdotal horrible experience. Because bigots will discriminate anyway. I never get when people are worried about antisemitism like that, antisemitism is way older than the concept of renegades in the ultra Orthodox community...
Why can't you spell antisemitism?
Actually you'll find this disrespective behavior of men versus women in ALL monotheistic religions...
@@MoniqueAO888 hence why all of them are bad lol
Great interview and also infuriating. A judge has no legal authority to force someone to follow religious rules. That’s an incredible first amendment violation.
I was shocked as well!
It's all in who you know on so many levels
Little did you know that Mother God wants you out from under men's authority.
But, you see, in America, you can do just about anything if you claim "religious freedom".
The odds are the judge was in the community.
As a Jew who grew up studying the Torah and semi-religious but not Hassidic at all, and hearing about the "bad spirits after the wedding" again for the first time as an adult, I wonder if what it really is, is depression following an unwanted marriage and unwanted consummation.
When you say “Torah” are you talking about the first 5 books of the Bible, or are you referring to the “Oral Torah”(the Talmud)?
Undoubtedly. I wonder how many women bolt in the days following such a horrid experience.
@@veritas2145Both. The Torah scroll contains the Hebrew Pentateuch, in a book rather than scroll form it’s called a Chumash (from the word “chamesh” meaning five) and the Pentateuch alone is referred to as scripture (mikra). Then there is the book of Prophets- “Nevi’im” and the “Writings” (Ruth, Psalms, Job, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, Lamentations, Daniel, Esther, Ezra (which included Nehemiah), and I and II Chronicles) are called “Ketuvim”. Of the written works, the Pentateuch is considered the most holy, followed by Nevi’im and Ketuvim. (In general the closer the transmission of a teaching was to Sinai, the holier it is considered).
Every week a section of the Pentateuch (the week’s Parashah) is read aloud, on Saturdays after reading from the Pentateuch, a section of Nevi’im (Prophets) thematically linked to that week’s Parashah is read aloud in the synagogue and this is reading of Prophets is called the haftarah or maftir.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haftara
Psalms are read during and after prayers and many read through all of psalms once a month on the Sabbath before every new Jewish month.
The three books (Torah, nevi’im, ketuvim) together are referred to as Tanach, and the second two are sometimes referred to as a pair as “Nach”. Books from Ketuvim such as Job, Ecclesiastes, Esther, Song of Songs, Lamentations and Ruth are read in their entirety on particular fast days/holidays.
The legal content of teachings in the Mishna, are believed to have been transmitted orally from God to Moses at Sinai or immediately after at the Tent of Meeting at the same time that the Pentateuch was given, along with the principles of exegesis which are the basis of the Gemara were originally not to to be written down since God transmitted it orally, but were permitted to be written down later to prevent the teachings from being forgotten in the diaspora (even so, it is customary to memorise tractates of the Mishna). The Talmud is comprised of the Mishna and the discussions and commentary on the Mishna- the Gemara. There are also Midrashim/Agdadata which are a collection of various parables, analogies and non-legalistic teachings separate from the Mishna.
During the summer on the Jewish Sabbath, a chapter of the section of the Mishna called “Pirkei Avot” (chapters of the fathers) or sometimes just “Avot” (fathers) for short is read by individuals later in the day. Avot is a section of the Mishna focusing mainly on teachings passed din regarding ethical principles/behavior towards people as well as God, eg:
“Shimon the Righteous was among the last surviving members of the Great assembly. He would say: The world stands on three things: Torah, the service of G‑d, and deeds of kindness”
“His son, Shimon, would say: All my life I have been raised among the wise, and I have found nothing better for the body than silence. The essential thing is not study, but deed. And one who speaks excessively brings on sin.”
“He said to them: Go and see which is the worst trait, the one that a person should most distance himself from. Said Rabbi Eliezer: An evil eye. Said Rabbi Joshua: An evil friend. Said Rabbi Yossei: An evil neighbor. Said Rabbi Shimon: To borrow and not to repay; for one who borrows from man is as one who borrows from the Almighty, as is stated, ``The wicked man borrows and does not repay; but the righteous one is benevolent and gives'' (Psalms 37:21). Said Rabbi Elazar: An evil heart. Said He to them: I prefer the word of Elazar the son of Arach to yours, for his words include all of yours.”
Apart from Talmud/Midrash there are also Mefarshim, which are commentaries on the written Torah, and Targum which is an Aramaic translation of the Pentateuch read along with the daily section of the Pentateuch, and condensed compilations of law/conduct/piety like the “Mishna Torah” by Maimonides, the “Shulchan Aruch” or the “Sefer Hachinuch”.
Chavi, I am a Christian, and there are parallels between strict fundamental Christianity and your background. I'm so very sorry you had these horrible, horrible experiences!! I appreciate your vulnerability in sharing this w millions of viewers!!! ❤ Thank you!
*How? she was having and enjoying "lesbian sex" before marriage. Then after deceiving everybody, she blames the husband and his religion. Off course HE divorce her.*
The jewish God is the same as the christian God. Yahwe.
Without the ortodox jews, no christianity.
"Neither of us wanted to be there."
I cannot imagine what that must have felt like.
Thank you Chavi for sharing this with those of us who have no exposure to this world.
How old was she for this? I missed that. Ty
@@razzle8140 Chavi said she married at 18.
Forced to grow up Mormon left at 18. My Great grandmother was raised Hasadic Jewish but was disowned when she married a French man (His family owned multiple hotels) it seems my Family has a history of oppressive religious lifestyles. Thank you for this video, I’m learning more of what my Great Grandmother grew up in.
*Hassidic
@@bethewalt7385 Thank you.
If your grandmother that was Jewish was your maternal grandmother then according to Jewish law you and your children are Jewish. There are many different ways that Jews practice their religion. I am Jewish and practice my faith in a very different way than she Chavie describes.
The French man your grandmother married was Mormon?
@@dewilew2137 No, I thought I had typed That I was forced to grow up mormon oops. My mom joined when I was very young I left her cult (Mormon) at the age 18. My mom only realized I was right a few years before she died. My Great Grandmother was Hassidic Jew, her father had her marriage planned to an older man but she had met my Great Grandfather (French) and she married him. Luckily they were very happy together. Her Father disowned her but years later her Mother would sneak away to see her Daughter and her new family, Until my Great grandma and Great grandpa moved to the US.
I dislike how religions set out to make women feel unclean.
And to tell us we’re “broken” and need to be fixed, or “sinful “ and need to be saved.
Thank you so much for sharing your story. It is the first time I truly understood my parents’ divorce when I was a year old and the horrors my mom went through to remove us from my grandparents’ conservative community. This podcast is going to play a big part in my healing from childhood traumas.
Thank you for sharing that. I hope it continues to help you ❤️ you’re not alone!
How beautiful was it that the one therapist was just so realistic and honest and helped her to understand what SHE really needed for herself instead of trying to force her into conformity.
I think that was the best professional advice too because if he’s trying to counsel a couple where one or both parties do not wish to keep the marriage together, there’s nothing he can really do to keep the marriage together.
@MalloryNewcomb right, and I think that was one of the most surprising things about this particular therapist, that he wasn't willing to twist his profession to suit the wants of the religion
I am a 73 yo man and I so respect both of these women. We definitely need more people like them in the world.
❤️🙏
My jaw is on the floor. The things these people in toxic religious environments have to endure is just mind boggling, especially women for they are often the most affected by this. My heart breaks while I listen to their stories but, it’s renewed and full when I see them tell their stories and I know they got out to live the lives they deserve ❤
I appreciate how Chavi explained the differences between Jewish sects. It would have been very easy to lump us all into "bad, crazy, Jews who oppress all the women" and i really respect that you took the time to explain the differences. Great video!
Hi Chavie and thank you for so bravely giving us your story. I am a gay man who was raised in a devout, but loving Roman Catholic family who has always felt loved. My siblings are amazing etc. Tom, my husband and I have been together for 47 years this past March. You are such a brave breath of fresh air, we need more yous in our world. Ray Moderski.
Congratulations on 47 years! When my sister announced she was gay, we expected my 75 year old Italian Catholic grandmother to renounce or shun my sister. My sister explained the church we were raised in would never accept her and my grandmother stood up, said "F the Catholic church" and I hope you picked a nice girl that will tolerate us. That day my grandmother became a legend and cousins and relatives announced they were gay for the first time. My grandmother was invited to each wedding as some of their own parents didn't dare go against my grandmother's love of family and true acceptance of us all. God bless.
@@Denise-Ann Wow, your grandma rocks! Kudos to her! 🥰
@@sharonthompson672 Thank you so much.
Congratulations on 47 years! That is wonderful!
Chavie is a phenomenal woman! She's a beacon of hope. I'm so glad that my Traditionally Jewish grandmother was not allowed to marry me off to some old bloke. She expected me to be an unpaid domestic slave to her, just like my mother (her only child) had been. My parents gave me my independence by letting me leave home on the south coast to go to college in London. After that I started earning. My best revenge, like Chavie, is to live my own life. Chavie, you are a wonder! Mazel Tov!
Chavi, I worked in a Hasidic neighborhood as a nurse for twenty five years. I’ve seen and heard so many things. But if I had to work there again , I do it in a heartbeat. The people were very nice to me. Some invited me to weddings and i went. I visited my patients when they sat shiva. So yes they live a very strict life and do understand those of you who left. I couldn’t live that way either. But I was treated very well by them.
I was raised orthodox Jewish in the Chabad Dynasty and while yes there are some cases like this, this is extreme and I personally did not experience any of this.
@@mariangarrett8254VintageDolllucky you.
She’s so interesting to listen too, such a beautiful person.
I grew up strict in Christianity and the purity culture was terrible, it in no way prepares you for the actuality of life. My ex husband was a narcissist and I remember when he left, I was a single mother with trauma but I also agree with her, I was so relieved he was gone, I could breathe, no more walking on eggshells etc. It was just the beginning of healing but it was a start, the hard part was I knew nothing I had to learn all alone.
Religion shouldn't be painful. At the very beginning of your story, Chavie, I felt pain for you, at the cognitive dissonance of all of it. As you progressed to the custody bit, I could identify as an ex-catholic, living in Utah where the courts favor men. I lost custody, even though there was rampant alcoholism on the other side. My sisters sided with my husband and testified against me. People and religion can cause so much avoidable pain. Chavie, you listened to your own wise voice throughout.
Hi Rita! So sorry to hear that! Thank you for sharing.
Religion shouldn't be painful? Who said that? Weren't we all condemned to pain because of Eve's sin? You mean Christ wasn't hurting while he hung on that cross? Seems it's all about pain to me.
@@ellarweegadsden8483 I think what they mean is that religion should ease pain for people, not invoke pain
@@SineadM27 I know that's what she meant. What I was questioning was where she got that idea from? Pain can only be eliminated with death. And with the Jewish religion, there is no heaven, no afterlife. I was just wondering where she got that idea from. That's all.
Omg your story just broke my heart. I'm so sorry that happened to you 😪💔
I'm horrified that a judge could so completely take over a good, caring, mother's rights- to teach her children and live her own life as a free Human being in society. Human rights violation.
Disgusted and horrified
I agree. It’s truly baffling.
It's a tradition not a law to obey the practices.Shocking that she lost he children
Not when you understand the hold they have over western judiciary, politics and governments.
@@shonabeggs4640what your comment is missing is a caricature of Jewish people. Do you talk about Irish in such way? You're implying there's a secret Jewish conspiracy, I want to make it clear. Look how many people in the US is Irish, even the president. Antisemitism won't take you far. About the ruling - Americans courts always protect parents' rights: right to religion, right to live in a van, right to homeschooling. It's objectively bad but parent's freedom of choice is more important. Look at mormons or any other religion based in the US. It's all the same, it's just parents have rights to isolate and teach alternative reality.
Chavie is so open and vulnerable… this story moved me so much. So very happy for their family!!!
I am an orthodox Jew and i didn't grow up like this at all!!! I never even heard about some of these things! So crazy how someone in your religion can grow up with such different values/rules!
Sects take the foundation of a belief and twists it to their own liking
I'm so happy for Chavi. Her story had me riveted. She's an inspiration.
I'm glad Chavie was able to leave that community as an intact human, and has done so much work to recover from the pain she experienced. I truly admire her lack of rancor towards her ex-husband. In many ways, he was as much of a victim as she was. Peace and blessings to you, Chavie!
I want you to know that on paper, we check different boxes in regards to religion, sexuality and upbringing but your story resonates for all women. Thank you so much for sharing your story! Personal autonomy is a lesson we all need to learn regardless of out starts in life. This was beautifully presented and it’s been received.😊
Chava , you do not need a ghost writer. Write your book yourself. Your voice is very ,very authentic and very srong, full of courage and what you have learned through so much hard work.
I grew up with a Hasidic camp right next door to my home in upstate NY. We would try and play with the kids when they came up in the summers. I learned a lot when one small boy would cross the fence and talk and play with us. The stories he would tell us were so sad. As an adult looking back it makes me so sad to think of what he went through.
I grew up among non Jews. Most non Jewish kids are emotionally neglected. Also, the treatment of women and domestic abuse, alcoholism and drugs. Very sad experience. I’m glad Jewish tradition respects women, they have property rights (unlike the whole world five minutes ego), domestic abuse is WAY lower. And as many people noticed here, Jewish mothers are a lot more loving an maternal (probably a cross generational thing, because Jewish women have always had more rights and education than the general society).
@@hpyrkh3Most sects of Judaism absolutely respect women better than general society.
The Ultra Orthodox do not.
@hpyrkh3 I'm an orthodox Jewish woman. That's quite a judgmental and prejudiced view against nonjews, as well as about jews . I don't agree with your stereotypes.
@@nikkison973 I was sarcastic for the most part. It’s a fact though, that they are NOT sarcastic about us. Many of them really think we are monsters. The part I wasn’t sarcastic about is women’s rights and stuff like that. Judaism is light years ahead Christian tradition in that regard.
So, peace, and you have to remember to be fair in your judgement, which doesn’t mean criticizing your own and being lenient to others.
@@nikkison973 also, you have remember that non Jewish world doesn’t only include North America. What I said wouldn’t be sarcastic talking about Eastern Europe. The non Jewish population of Eastern Europe does have more domestic abuse and more alcoholism than Jewish. Statistics, nothing you can do about it. Not saying it? Not a way out. If you are not a bigot, you will say the truth,
“Do the hard thing, you deserve the big beautiful life.”
That sentence and how big Chavie’s smile is, after all the years of difficulty and challenge, these two things are the most extraordinary things among this whole hour of this extraordinary life experience shared with us here.
Two potent reasons to be courageous, to make the decisions of our honest and most truth-giving heart.
Completely awed. Thank you for gifting us your story and wisdom.
25:55 She was really compassionate and has really given this deep thought, to blame the community and have compassion for the man who also didn't want to be there. I admire this person.
I am a muslim and i thought we are strict but listening to this i feel blessed . This is too much . Im soo proud of you . U are very strong 💪 ❤️
Ex JW here. Modesty culture started around 9-10 for me because that’s when I started developing in the chest. I was constantly told I couldn’t and shouldn’t tempt men and that covering up was the only way to not only keep myself safe but keep them from stumbling. It was all on my childhood shoulders and that’s extremely scary and uncomfortable
Oh and we also got the “you’re a daughter of the king of king lord of lords jehovah we must dress modestly and nicely to honor him” thing
Ugh! I hate that so much. It’s one thing to be aware of the outside world, but another to put all that fear and shame onto a child.
I’ve always thought victim shaming was so wrong.
If a man can’t control himself and keep it zipped he doesn’t belong in society. Those men need to take responsibility for their own failings and stop blaming everyone else.
I’ve heard “that’s the nature of men”. Bull. I don’t go around jumping everything that moves. These “not my faulters” need to get a grip.
@@CultstoConsciousnessIt's not putting shame on the children, it's about dignity. Our little girls should be acting out like Britney Spears on IG? That's better than modesty?
I would be told that I was "sticking them out there" too much... but then also I should stand up straighter...
I admire this woman's ability to find herself and heal from this experience.
Yesrs ago, i watched a delightful series on the Hassidic community in Manchester, UK. A totally joyful watch.
Chavie brings the harsh reality behind the humor and the smiles.
Thank you both for this powerful interview.
Nothing pushes my "buttons" like learning about the ways that men exert control over women so that THEY do not have to be a responsible and adult human being!!!!!! I barely have the words to describe WHAT is being done, let alone how I feel about it.
Exactly. Patriarchy saves men from taking any responsibility for their actions. Most religions do this and it’s starting to be seen for what it is. Both sexes need to recognise that respect each other and the different way we respond. I believe that the Initiation of boys into manhood that was practised by old cultures gives men an experience that teaches respect for the feminine, they understand the power of women as the women support the men. Much healthier behaviour. I also think that the young people are very different in their attitudes toward each other. They are far more conscious and compassionate.
I’ve been reading comments here. Most are claiming this is a clear example of patriarchy, and others 22:45 are claiming it’s a matriarchal belief system.
In my decades of lived experience, and contact with various cultures…it’s usual women that enforce the social and societal rules.
@@basilbaby7678 They are brainwashed into doing so by males. It's evil.
It's unspeakable that a judge was able to order such coercive demands on her. I'm happy for such a beautiful outcome! Such an inspiration. 😊
That’s standard for parents who leave strict Abrahamic religions if one of the parents are still members and the kids were born into that faith. Especially when the judge is a member of an Abrahamic faith. Congress can’t force people to follow a religion but judges literally can and do under the threat of not only losing access to their kids but jail for violating court orders. Even if the kids are old enough to explain why they hate their religion.
I saw this a lot back when I was a teacher but usually with JW or far right Baptists.
He was taking bribes from attorneys and their clients. The D.A. Set up
Hidden cameras and videos and voice recorded his shit when they found out. Judge was arrested and disbarred. This women’s case was the one that brought him down but so many others were exposed when the cameras were recording.
You are an AMAZING young woman!! When my son lived in NYC, he lived at the edge of this type of community, and when I visited, it always really bothered me how the women were seemingly so down trodden!! Thank goodness you’ve been SO STRONG!! Congratulations you were able to get your family liberated. Congratulations to you and your family!!!
Your experience with brain washing of kids against you is actually a typical thing that happens with divorce and abusive X. I am sorry to hear what happened in your life. You are such a strong person thank you for sharing your story
Chavie, you spoke so well. I am Orthodox (Chabad). I do things my way. I grew up Yeshivish. It is not for everyone. It wasn’t for me either. I am pleased that your story, although sad, was not presented in an accusatory way. I appreciate that. I wish you well in your life!
Thank you for your kind comment. I’m sure it helps her feel seen and understood by those who know can relate to her experience. ❤️
She should absolutely write a book! Her story is so interesting and gripping. I think it would be a bestseller.
Definitely!
Thank you so much for sharing your story, Chavie. You're an incredible role model. ❤ I imagine that your children are incredibly proud to have you as their mother. ❤
Thank you! What a charmingly honest guest. She is so likable, intelligent and her smile so winning🙏
She mentioned that her children are still having court-ordered family therapy with their father, yet the oldest is 20 (legally an adult), the next one down would be 18 (or close enough to it) - so legally an adult (or close enough), while the youngest would be around 16. I find it amazing to think that children who are now legally adults could still be subjected to court-ordered family therapy, resulting from a child custody dispute. How can that happen in a country like the USA?
USA puts religion before it's people even if that means people suffer. Religion allows people to amass money and all that matters to the government is money. So, men get to control the money in these communities. Women are second class citizens really even if they are the breadwinners. Judges respond to money, and a community always rallies around the man even against their own mother, daughter, or sister. They think they have a right to own the children born into the cult, the community. If that means the kids suffer, so be it.
Truly, a terrible place.
@WolfieDawn, where do you live in the US? It's not true at all. Also, sometimes a child at 15 or 16 can make decisions about their parents.
@@DJ-hf1zoIf they're not already brain-washed.
@@WolfieDawnThat is patently false.
New York and New Jersey can court order things, until the kid is 21 especially if they are in college it’s a monetary thing not a religious thing.
What a compelling story. I didn't intend to watch the whole hour when I started but I couldn't stop listening. I found it very telling that when her husband first moved out there wasn't really a change to her life because the men were contributing so little to running the household. The women were doing all the work and the men taking all the rewards.
Me too, unbelievable.
As someone who comes from an extreme Christian background who is Lesbian, this was very accurate. Especially not even knowing what it is, just that there's something wrong with you. Thank you for being strong ❤
My biggest impression from her story was the fact that she didn’t even know the term lesbian by the time she was like 20-23. This honestly PROVES beyond a shadow of doubt that it’s a totally natural part of the human experience and not some “woke leftist agenda turning all the kids gay”. She was so sheltered to the point of basically being diagnosed as lesbian by a orthodox Jewish therapist!
@@carolbaker2773it doesn't have to be one of the other. It can be both. It is natural for many, but social contagion is real too.
@@refinnej5302no is not , stop speeding bullshit. You cannot be attracted to women sexually and romantically for a "social contagious" . Stop speeding bullshit around please. I talk about real attraction, sexual desire and romantic desire, a person can call herself a "lesbian" just for "social contagious" ( whatever that means) but the attraction and desire towards women wouldn't be there, if a woman is heterosexual she can't force herself to be sexually attracted to women, sexuality and sexual orientation doesn't work like that, the desire towards women is either there or it isn't there , is something spontaneous, it's not something you can "learn" or force yourself to feel.
I live in NJ with a huge Hesidic population in the next town. I noticed a lot of men shopping with the children during the day. I'm surprised the women are the breadwinner. This was a fantastic interview. This woman is such a strong and beautiful woman inside and out. I wish her all the best.
Wow! A judge allowed this kind of abuse from this cult to continue on? Incredible! 😮
My thoughts exactly!!!
Committing abuse? No problem - just claim religious freedom!
With the right lawyer anything is possible. We don't have a justice system, we have a legal system. And like everything else it's based almost entirely on $$$.
You have $$$ you have a power. With money you can buy anything sadly.
I can't believe a judge allowed that!! shocking!!
This woman is so charming. I am so so sorry for her in this terrible experience and I wish her so much love in her future. Thank you for doing this video.
Millions of young girls and woman live this way!
I deeply admire Chavie and her strength to stand up for what she recognized as true in her own heart. This is extremely challenging, to say the least, when you have been brainwashed yur entire life, your entire family and community are turning against you in the process, plus you risk the possibility of losing your children. No words can express my admiration for Chavie's strength and courage. And I too respect and admire the Rabbi who finally came through for her and steered her in the right direction Well done, Chavie. Have you ever considered becoming an inspirational speaker? There are so many people trapped in seemingly impossible "no exit" situations; just think how talks and books about your experience might impact people on a global level. Besides, you are so personable, relatable, likeable and well spoken, you'd be a natural. Of course you need to follow God's will for you, so this is merely a suggestion. All the best, Chavie, and the same to you, cultstoctonsciousness. I admire your youtube channel and think you are doing a fabulous service for the world. Your videos are well organized, the interviews are interesting and enlightening and I'm looking forward to listening to all of them. Many thanks to both of you!
I’ve watched several of your interviews now. You are such a skilled, compassionate interviewer who asks what I’m wondering. These conversations are giving me a lot to consider as a parent, so I thank you for that opportunity to grow.
This young woman is a MARVEL!! Shelise, this means you.
Lauren, I'm also so impressed with YOU! Thanks for being the kind of mom who puts a lot of though into how to raise your children.
YOU are a hero! Thank you!
Wow, Chavie is so beautiful and it breaks my heart that she's had to go through these struggles but also it's amazing to see the light that pours out of her. When she was talking about how it was not her husband that raped her, but more so the rabbi's and the community, gosh that's so profound. She should write a book! She has an incredible way of speaking. So much love to you, Chavie 💕
Couldn’t agree more, Amanda!
There is a huge hasidic community in Monroe NY and my heart goes out to these women...the stories I've heard are heartbreaking and I don't understand how this community has so much POWER in NYS. They pay off the politicians and are allowed to do whatever they please. The law FAILS these women. They know the control and abuse that goes on and nothing is done. God bless this woman for trusting her gut, having the courage to leave, for living in her truth and taking ownership of her life and the life of her kids. So powerful.
Kicked out on the street with three children myself I relate so much to her connection with motherhood. What an amazing woman who has triumphed and pray continues to triumph.
Hoping this next year ahead is the best ever for you and your kids!
Thanks for being such a devoted mother.
@@ShellBAtoms Thankfully I can say its been 5 years since then. I have my own place, a great paying job and the kids are thriving. I met a great guy and his amazing son in their own situation and get to pay it forward with love and support ❤
That's fabulous to hear! I'm so happy for you and your family! It takes a lot of courage to do what you did, and I have no doubt that your courage and strength have served you very well! All the best in all you do! @@lindseymick3843
I’m so furious about the fact that the children were removed from her care. She was the one working and the only one taking care of them at the time. Then made her wear modest clothes while in the community? What kind of crap judge was that!? Chavi is amazing, what a strong and powerful woman to take her life back for herself and her children’s happiness
Chavie is amazing and a great storyteller. So glad she’s free and found someone special to share life with.🌿
Free???? Wait till 120.
Truly loved your story thank you for sharing it! You are such a STRONG, AMAZING woman! I was Mormon for 25 years, got onto it at 17, left it at 42 and it was so enlightening, I didn't realize how brainwashed I was, still trying to un-brainwash myself from some things. PROUD of everyone leaving a controlling, unhealthy religion that tells you how you should and shouldn't act. I'm divorcing a. Ontroling, toxic marriage 27 years together married q
25, I was 18, never been control of my own life and am scared. Still living in the same house as the divorce hasn't been finalized and I have no access to money. Praying for strength, change is scary but so NECESSARY for my me tal health and happiness.
Good luck. Sending strength
Chava is so youthful looking! So excited she got free and changed her trajectory along with the lives of her children!
this channel is so fascinating, haven’t been able to stop watching since i found it! great interviewer and incredible guests with really interesting stories and perspectives. i love the way that they dive into really traumatic and deep topics while somehow keeping the vibe comfy and informative and healing. i didn’t grow up religious at all, so there’s this whole other layer of exploring stories that are so foreign to me but also finding a lot of common ground and solidarity. as a lesbian this one really stuck out to me. these vids are so inspiring and are helping me feel more comfortable about processing and accepting my own trauma 🖤
Hearing Chavie’s story, I am filled with admiration for her strength.
This story is so heavy and profound but at the same time Chavie is so bright, light and funny! I liked this conversation so much
This video made me subscribe. This is a look into a world i never would have even thought about so im so appreciative of her coming on and opening up. Thank you both!
Glad you are such a open person now, and talk to us out there. It’s very brave and I know that it will help a lot of humans (men and women) to get rid of those boundaries.
Chavie is such an extraordinary human being. I really loved this interview. I am Jewish, my grandparents were Holocaust survivors. That experience actually served to make my family no longer believe in God and so my father was a Jewish atheist (yes there is such a thing- being Jewish is an ethnicity, my parents are ethnically Jewish but dont believe in God). As a result, i was never raised to be religious but as a Jewish kid you go to Hebrew school at the synagauge after school, i had to learn the Hebrew language, i have been to Israel many times even living there 2 months out of the year for many years as a child. So i know the fundamentals of Judaism (Reform) but NEVER knew how deeply layered the SHAMING and violating of women and their sexuality, and really their humanity, it is in the Hasidic community. How stressful and deeply violating of your personal intimacy it is to have your period be something that you have to prove to your husband is over so you can assure him your not "unclean." I mean wow theres certain things that just feel so wrong, like you just feel it in your gut, in your soul. So interesting also to realize the major disconnect between sex and the body in Chavie's experience. The two are so inextricably interconnected (can't have one without the other), I cant even imagine how shocking, scary, and traumatic having sex for the first time must've been for her! I hope Chavie writes that book! I would love to read it!
How can you be ethnically Jewish when someone can be ethnically Yemenite and also Jewish and someone can be ethnically Ethiopian and Jewish and someone can be ethnically russian and Jewish. How about a convert ? Do they become ethnically Jewish? Judaism is a religion. The entire crux of the Jewish identity and existence is the receiving of the Torah at Mt Sinai. Calling yourself ethnically or culturally Jewish is something that didn’t exist until the early 1800s when in Germany reform started to spread. For over a thousand and a half years a Jew was a Jew. Surely some weren’t as devout in their heart but you still lived with your people and acted as such.
@@Stolas1777Ethnicity has to do with DNA. You can be Irish and Norwegian. It’s like that. Converts are not ethnically Jewish.
All sects of Jewish orthodox has these awful commonalities . Sucks
@thatdudeforeal because we married one another for so long it bottlenecked our genes. Which is how "Jewish " also became an ethnicity. Not just a religion. Ashkenazi Jew being the largest genetic group. And, is found in DNA kits like 23 and me amoung many others
@@Stolas1777 Jewish Ethiopians have Jewish paternal DNA.
And maternal Ethiopian DNA. This is our mix 😊
We follow religion according to our father's lineage, which is Jewish. We come from the lineage of King Solomon, in our paternal fathers side. Which is from Israel. Not Africa.
Only our mother's side is Ethiopian.
Ethiopia is one of the only places in the world to have had an ancient Jewish-related kingdom and monarchy, from Israel. Not Africa.
All the way down to the last Emperor Haile Selassie 😊
Same for Yemenite Jews. They are different DNA from Yemenite non Jews.
Because we all originate in Israel. And moved to these other places. That's why we share DNA. Not 100%, but we often share paternal DNA.
Hope this helps to explain.
Btw, regular, non-Jewish Ethiopians also have a lot of middle east DNA, and east Africans in general do. Some have more middle eastern DNA than African DNA, despite our skin color..
And to answer your question directly: YOUR definition of an ethnicity is not a Jewish definition. It's your own western way of thinking. We think differently. I am Jewish. We believe in our history and being ONE ethnicity, despite being dispersed and settling in other places.
This is our way of thinking. It's different than going off skin color. There's not only one way to think...
I am not different from the jews who settled in Yemen, North Africa, or Europe. We are the same 😊
I think one of my first visual exposures to a more extreme sect of Ultra Orthodox Jewish religion was the show Unorthodox, back in 2020, about a girl who is in a similar situation and she escapes but her past is catching up to her. I just had no idea about the other detailed stuff that was happening, still watching here but thank you for speaking about your experience on this interview so far. Edit: damn good point on 16:24
So much respect for this woman that fought for what she wanted and for what was right for her own happiness and sanity and for so many others out there living and experiencing the same or similar circumstances under the control of others ! She is an inspiration and a survivor ❤️🙏……appreciation also goes out to this beautiful,compassionate and articulate host that genuinely takes the time to understand and share the real and raw stories of so many others ❤️🙏
A beautiful , genuine woman. Endured so much . So happy she is living and loving this one, short , precious life . You're beautiful.
I could listen to Chavie talk all day. What a beautiful, hard story. Her energy and personality is amazing. I couldn't be happier for her, and you are such a great interviewer, Shelise. It feels so organic and genuine. while never being confusing or feeling disjointed. Thank you both so much!
Thank you so much, Lauren!! Part two coming soon with Chavie and her daughter!
This conversation honestly made me so sad. Chavie was completely let down by her family/community. I know plenty of chassidic women who were living the same life but were given a voice and choice in their life and truly love their life fully. Unfortunately, this was not the case. It pained me to see all of the rituals and beliefs that I hold so dear to me experienced through the lens of control/trauma /abuse (like the concept of niddah/Mikvah) my heart goes out to Chavie and I wish her only good in her life. What also pains me is knowing that very often people in ultra chassidic communities who feel the constraints of the strict lifestyle often turn completely off from Judaism when there is so many communities within the umbrella. I don’t doubt or question her choices for her life but wish other people in her position know that there are welcoming and open communities all over if you choose to find another. There is an organization called Project Makom run by Allison Jospehs @jewinthecity who helps people find a different place in the Jewish world. I’m sorry your community let you down Chavie, sending you only love from your Jewish sister🙏🏻💕
That is beautiful and so kind of you. I wish more people would be so understanding.
If you've had enough, you've had enough...
Be happy for those who break their chains, and gain freedom !
Thank you for sharing about project Makom. As Jew raised and trying to be mainstream Orthodox, I have often wondered if being given a choice to move between Jewish paths, the choice my family has always made it clear that I have, would help a lot of people struggling in the chassidic community. It's a hard lifestyle. For some people, it's not going to work - even with the best mental health supports within the communities and every current challenge improved, chassidism still isn't for everyone. I wish it wasn't seen as Chassidism or nothing - I understand why it is if those are your traditions and you sincerely believe this is the only spiritual way for your family, you might see it like that - but so many people might not be hurting if they were told that they had options, and that they knew those of us in other Jewish communities would welcome them in. I'm going to look in to Project Makom and see how I can get involved.
Shelise you are an absolutely amazing interviewer, this was a heart-wrenching interview to listen to and you really helped give Chavie a voice to talk about this. Thanks so much for sharing, this is very meaningful and glad to join the other 193k subscribers (at time of writing) who believe in you!
Wow, thank you! That means a lot
I suffered in my marriage too 🥺 tx for speaking out, orthodox here as well.
OMG her "therapist" taught her to disassociate in order to have sex!? How horrible!
And causes harm, so violates his profession’s code of ethics
@@watershipdown3630 Thats a very interesting take! I didn't think of that myself, but it could totally be!
Disassociating oneself while having sex is a common practice for many women.
@@db16548 that is soooo sad!! 😪
Which is what women do during rape.
I find these traditions in religion, of the seclusion of women who are menstruating or post partum, often times the narrative is that the woman is unclean. When i look at my own cultural traditions in terms of ethnic tradition, the seclusion isn't so much seclusion as it is a break from the daily grind of life because that is when women and girls need rest. It makes me wonder if these religions adopted the good of culture, where women were taken care of when they are at their weakest, then perverted it into something rigid and damning for women.
What an interesting point. I thought seclusion must have first been a sacred space of rest & comfort for women like u said. It really hit me in the novel, The Red Tent. Does feel like this has twisted to subject women. I mean spa day with the girls is still a stress reliver today.
Bingo
I think the same about some religious garb. Was covering your hair useful for daily chores when water was not available on tap? Is covering your whole body and face under a desert sun a good idea?
This is great! I watched this before and rewatched it to get my joy back on. Thanks Yohanan!
You're doing such important work on this channel, and I especially love how you never shy away from the impacts of purity culture on young women's minds. Your guests are all wonderful, and Chavie genuinely seems like such a cool, fun person despite all she went through. It's awesome to see how she's taken control of her life!
Incredible interview. As heartbreaking as Chavie's story is, I am so happy that she found the strength to survive and exit. I admire her strength and she seems like such a wonderful mother.
I agree! 🙌
Wow, this woman is so intelligent, strong, and kind. I can't believe the court had the power to force her and her children to stay in this cult. Something is so wrong with the family court system
This was such a good video, thank you for opening up and telling your experience and thank you for having a youtube to show this to help. ❤
I’m from a Quebec area where there are all kinds of orthodox Jewish communities. I have seen very sad, very young depressed women married with older fat men walking on a sidewalk with three, four or five children. I feel for them. I’m glad this woman found the courage to fight back. We can’t do much since as we try we are called antisemites. We just want women and men to live a free, peaceful and fulfilled life respecting the people around them as they are respected. Great interview!
As a recovering JW, It is hard for a mother who walked away from their religion/community to not deconstruct their children’s way of life because YOU ARE THE ONE WHO TAUGHT THEM.
I, too, thought of my children’s mental health and safety by opening the ‘little at a time’ introduction to good values that are NOT JUST from their religion. Remember, the religion you left is still your children’s religion.
As a lesbian, I could not add my sexuality to the pile of work already on my plate.
My children are 37 and 40 now. They still feel that “I” was the stable element in their childhood.
I remember thinking in the darkest times that “someday they will know the truth about their father”
But It was a sad day when they did…
The important outcome of my influence is that they are both Good PEOPLE AND PARENTS. And they both raised their children without any religion but with their own moralities.
Thank you letting your guests speak. It shows respect and allows the listener to fully appreciate the guests experience.
Chavie is an amazing human being. To be able to tell a story like this with no negativity or bitterness showing is beyond amazing. I read comments to the contrary and I had to laugh. She told her story in facts. Any conceived negativity in this retelling is completely on the community. Facts can be negative, but delivered in a non-negative way, which is exactly what Chavie did. She never mentioned her grandparents, parents, or siblings. She never mention her ex, the new wife, or any new kids. She never mentioned her ex’s family. She left all that out. That is a whole other layer of pain and abuse she endure. She should write a book. Tell the whole story. Hold everyone accountable. Best of luck to you Chavie! I send all my best wishes to you, your kids, the family you chose, and your wonderful fiancé that brings that beautiful smile to your face.
Hi Kristin! I couldn’t agree more 🙌
Yassss!!!
You, Chavi are amazing! Mazel Tov on your engagement. Thank you for your bravery and sharing your story. I wish you snd your family a lifetime of love, joy, and happiness.
Loved this interview! She has such powerful energy!
As a Jew myself, I’m listening to your guest talk about the sects within movements, etc. It dawned on me how many there are amongst such a small world population as Judaism is.
Thank God.
This interview was so amazing. Thank you for having this guest. They’re an absolute treasure and this conversation was so meaningful to listen to ♥️
Thank you, Heather! She is so amazing
Thank you so much for your willingness to share your experience. May your life continue to be a source of joy to you❤️❤️