Here’s the full quote for anyone who wants it: "I agree very much with Christopher Hitchens. It is repudiation of many of the evils that he claims have been done in the name of God. But I've learned to distinguish between the greatness of God and the inexcusable evil that has been done by those professing His name. And so, I do not deduce that ‘God is not great and that religion poisons everything.’ After all, if I fail to distinguish between the genius of Einstein and the abuse of his science to create weapons of mass destruction, I might be tempted to say ‘Science is not great and technology poisons everything.’ What is more, as I look back at the evils of atheist regimes of the 20th century, I might also be tempted, ladies and gentlemen, to say ‘Atheism is not great, it has poisoned everything.’ As it is, I hold that science shows some of the greatness of God... The idea that God and science are mutually exclusive explanations of the universe is as wrong as saying that internal combustion and Henry Ford are mutually exclusive explanations of the automobile. They are complementary explanations. One explains how it works, the other why it exists... Telescopes can show us the wonder of the night sky, but science didn't put the stars there, nor did the laws of biology and physics, ladies and gentlemen. They describe what is there, they don't put it there... Yes, it does need a Creator. Alan Sandage, widely regarded as one of the fathers of modern astronomy, who discovered quasars, said, 'I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle. God, to me, is a mystery, but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something rather than nothing.'"
God does not answer the question why there is something rather than nothing because God is a something with all the complexity of intelligence and personhood. Intelligence requires that there is a world to model and form syllogisms.
@@kos-mos1127 Did you even watch the video? You don’t have to watch the entire debate, but did you even sit through it and absorb it at all? If you did, then you must surely understand that from a theistic point of view your statement means utterly nothing. And if you didn’t, well, inanity shouldn’t beget you. And if you can’t suss out the meaning of the previous two sentences from this one, then God help you.
@user-qg1kb8ih3g It's called free will kiddo. Revealing himself in his heavenly form would eliminate our free will. We all have purposes to fulfil and the odds of people that are meant to do great things in (say medicine) would most likely abandon that to just serve God in the way they feel truly glorifies him. Would you rather be a robot or someone who has their own autonomy?
More like PSEUDO-INTELLECTUAL BS. You're trying to rationalize your bigotry with a bunch of PSEUDO-INTELLECTUAL nonsense. You want to be thought of as having a lot of intelligence and knowledge, but you're not really intelligent or knowledgeable. Deep down, you know this and desperately need to feel better about yourself, hence you're bigotry.
the missed opportunity: just as Christopher Hitchens would not want to be a tyrannical overseer in his children's' lives, he also would not ever force them to love him, or be so overbearing that they lose their capacity for free will. He would want to be loved by them on account of their choice.
@@kos-mos1127 Nor does God. People choose to reject and hate him, and thus their existence after this world will be miserable, because God will be ever present. What will be heaven for the faithful will be hell for those who despise God.
@@kos-mos1127@Are you suggesting that judging someone's actions is always a terrible thing? What exactly do you think about judging someone's actions? As far as sending them to H311, that's a common framing that's used as if to suggest that the individual didn't choose it for themself. It takes responsibility off of the individual. Now we can also play around a bit with that framing. Let's take the closest example here on Earth. Do we not have prisons for people who commit crimes? Do we not rightfully sentence some individuals to life in prison? Is it not best that certain individuals should remain in prison? And while we're at it, do we not also occasionally get individuals that willingly and rightly choose to confess and go to prison? Are there not individuals that choose to stay in prison for the crimes they've committed?
@@kos-mos1127Also, if you're reading this, please do your best to not trigger the YT tyrants' shadow algo if you expect a response to any of your replies to me from me. This is simply a heads up for if you expect or want a reply from me. If you don't care, then just type whatever it is and let the shadow algo do its thing.
My worldly stepson recently made the bold claim that all Christians reject science. I asked him to define "science"; he could not. I asked him to look it up; he read that science is a collection of observations. I asked how observing our universe meant that there was no creator; he had no answer. I asked him to give a basic breakdown of the "scientific method"; he could not. (This is a kid who's currently in high school with a B in physics.) I then gave a hypothetical scenario: Let's say that I wanted to discover how the grass in our yard obtained its energy to grow. I'd make a plan for various tests, sorting out all the variables that needed controlled, setting up multiple samples for experiments. But before I even began, I'd decide that I would NOT accept that the sun had anything to do with it. I'd reject that possibility outright, because I thought it sounded absurd. Then I would begin the testing, looking for anything but sunlight as a possible explanation. Does that sound scientific? He said no, of course not. I explained that that's what he was doing to God; he'd already decided that God didn't exist, and that he ws 100% infallible on that supposed fact. He was rejecting a possible outcome before learning anything. He was the one rejecting science, not us. I suspect that is the case with many atheists whose god is simply themselves. I myself didn't accept Christ until I dug into the history of scripture, and saw the mountain of evidence that says yes, Jesus is exactly who He claims to be.
All Atheists, Evolutionists, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions in the world DON'T KNOW and just can't understand that Jesus Christ and his Followers are not Atheists, Evolutionists, or fanatics of any Christian and non-Christian Religion in the world but Worshippers of the Creator of the heavens and the earth and all that are in and on it. All the arrogant, cruel, and merciless Atheists, Evolutionists, Christians, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions in the world DON'T KNOW and just can't understand that their Satanic arrogance and foolishness in raising, glorifying, and exalting themselves as better, greater, powerful, glorious, higher and superior than the Creator and his Christ will definitely result in nothing but their own dishonor, disgrace, downfall and ETERNAL DEATHS, just worthless and useless dusts on earth forever while the SUBMISSIVENESS and OBEDIENCE of lowly, ordinary, kind, and respectful persons on earth to the authority and teachings of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" as written in Matthew 28: 18, Luke 4: 43, and John 11: 25, 26 will definitely bring them honor and the loving, kind, and merciful Creator's favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4. All Atheists, Evolutionists, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions in the world DON'T KNOW and just can't understand that they will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth forever after their deaths just like the animals as written in Ecclesiastes 3: 19, 20 ; 9: 5, 6 while the Creator's loving, kind, and respectful worshippers who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Daniel, Jesus Christ's followers, and many others will not remain as worthless and useless dusts on earth forever, instead, in the right and proper time, the Creator will let Jesus Christ RESURRECT them back to life so they can all happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD" and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings of the Creator and his Christ for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
Great answer. Even though Ravi Zacharias let us down ultimately it does not mean his answers were wrong. Ravi, in one of his books, discusses this very thing. He was at a get together of mostly academia I believe. His answer was to ask a question back to his questioner. I will paraphrase his answer. " Since you do not believe in God but science how does science say the universe was created? The answer given was The Big Bang. Next and what was The Big Bang? How it did it happen? Answer the point of singularity. And what is the point of singularity but the point where all the rules and theories of science no longer exist, correct ? Therefore, science isn't even based on science. " Uh that ended that discussion very quickly.
Excellent analogy, but in anticipation of the expected atheist rebuttal, humans can see the sun whereas we can't see God. You're comparing a physical objects and measurable photons with an immaterial and immeasurable God.
@@RS54321 I see what you’re saying but I would respond with this: This rebuttal skirts the issue and is beside the point. The analogy points out that it is unscientific to rule out conclusions before any experiments have been done and any evidence has been collected-- which is exactly what the naturalist is doing when he says, “If I can’t measure it and observe it, it does not exist.”
Except that's not what "mutilation" is contextually referred to. The important part here is the harm being caused to the person/being and/or their agency and consent. When someone suffers from diabetes and must have a limb amputated in order to survive, we may call it unfortunate, but hardly a harmful procedure when considering the outcome of inaction. Even in the example of male circumcision there are common cases for its implementation, such as treating someone suffering from Phimosis. I'm not a Trans person but it doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to see the presently-limited forms of Gender Affirming Care procedures in a favorable light when weighed against the potential of a lifetime filled with suffering and suicidality.
@@mwjgcreeves4984if you want to talk about consent, then it still applies. A child cannot give consent to such a subjective topic, especially when encouraged by people who should be protecting said child's best interests. Mutilation as a description seems rather fitting using your logic.
Genital mutilation is something that is done by other people towards you because of the beliefs of other people. If you choose to do sex change operation, it's your own decision. Massive difference. And I would argue that you cannot change sex, only visual appearance of yourself. Your sex is defined by your chromosomes (XY or XX) and we don't have any technology to change your sex on chromosome level.
Hitchens doesn't grossly misrepresent Christianity because he misunderstands. He does it knowingly and dishonestly to perpetuate the non-Christian public's misunderstanding and a caricature that is much easier for him to ridicule and argue against (i.e., a straw man).
@@reality1958 He misrepresents Christian beliefs, as pointed out in the video. Did you even watch it? Did you pay any attention to Lennox's corrections of Hitchens' misrepresentations? I don't believe for one second that someone as intelligent Hitchens was, someone who spent countless hours preparing for and participating in numerous debates like this with Christians, never once stumbled upon accurate Christian doctrines. No, he chose to misrepresent our beliefs despite being corrected repeatedly by many people and by his own research.
@@rickh9396 yes in fact I’ve watched the full debate several times. I was a Christian for 50 years and I think Hitchens is spot on. I’ve watched probably all of Hitchens debates. Example. Lennox responds early with the notion that somehow Christian horrors are different than the message. It is not. In fact multiple Christian atrocities are biblically based. Lennox made a big mistake here
No he did but he gave the law of Moses which was a unfinished moral code FOR THE TIME and it was said that the Christ would come and finish it this is why when he died on the cross he said its finished and dropped his head@@lionzion1879
Hitchens is a great debator and I love him for that. If it weren't for Hitchen's, I wouldnt have the relationship I have with God now. Nearly his life's work, speaking against God, actually gave credence of God's existence. Mearly pointing the bad players who were under the guise of Christianity and sainthood, wasnt enough to sway me to not believe. It only emboldened me to read the word of God myself. Not to hear it from a pastor or evangelical. Hitchen's words mean to me more than any priest, pastor or other person with a microphone in their hands could ever mean. Hitchens mearly pointed out that bad people pretend to speak for God. Thank you Mr. Hitchen's. You brought me closer to God and his word. RIP
Amen!!! I love how God works!! So many are actually coming to faith through Hitchens and Dawkins! Even one of Dawkins close associates went onto Ray Comforts channel and shared his testimony. What I've learned through all this is that God seeks and saves the lost sheep. And despite human and the enemies (Satan's) attempts to dissuade and detour people from accepting him. It reminds me of the story of Baalam where he wanted to use the prophet to curse the Israelites and instead of cursing the Israelites God kept blessing them!😎
There is never anything to be gained from rational people debating the religious, it’s like two people arguing when neither one of them understands a word of the other’s language.
If you really understand Hitchens, you should have been an atheist and not believing in God without any evidence of his existence. Lennox is flat out strawmanning Hitchens here. No shred of critical thinking in your response whatsoever. Sad.
So you are claiming something here that cannot be demonstrated to be real. I do believe Hitchens, when he asked that question, was referring to moral behavior that we do on earth. In real life. And there’s nothing a Christian could do that an atheist couldn’t
@@reality1958I would say the one good thing that an atheist cannot do that a Christian can, is to do good out of a right motive that is not self-focused. The good things that an atheist does are always about him or herself and proving how good and worthy they are. Only believers can do good out of love for God.
I have to give credit to Mike Winger for the answer to this question. It's such a no-brainer. The most moral thing a person can do that only a Christian can do, but no other people can do is love God. Loving God is the most morally upright thing a person can do.
Morality, which is defined by we humans, is behavior that exhibits kindness to others. To me that is the highest morality. If following a god achieves and focuses on that goal then fine
The Lord is near to ALL who call upon Him in truth. I found a Rescued not Arrested Bible in county jail. Changed my life. My family is healed and by His Grace my life is restored. Be safe and well.
Love how he takes issue with God "surveiling every thought and moment" when Godless government is right now aiming to do not only the same, but control everything we do and think as well. God knows all, but He doesn't stop us from making incorrect choices. God doesn't take our freedom, but godless government is 100% shackles.
So what are your views on your mythical gods wonderful natural creations such as tsunamis, earthquakes, hurricanes etc which have been wiping out millions of innocent people, babies and all since humans walked the earth. Not forgetting the great flood he created which basically wiped out the human race. Actually, that's a lie, there was no great flood but if you still believe that then why do you worship a narcissistic psychotic mass murderer !!
Very good! I always felt bad for Hitchens, it seemed like so much anger, and pain. I think Frank Tarek was right when he summed up Hitchens, he said, "there is no god, and I hate him."
@reality1958 yes, and he was not totally wrong, but he didn't do his homework well. For one he lump all religion as one. Second he talks of goodness, without a God, there is no such thing as good, evil, right, wrong.
I want more John Lennox, Clearly one of our living greats! I hope everyone that sees the video, the whole discussion and/or reads the pinned comment gets the point that Atheism offers nothing and ruins what we know to have.
I'm always impressed with John Lennox I don't know why, but Hitchens seems to ask things in such a way that I find difficult to respond to but Lennox does it with ease
Hitchens uses flowery language to convince you to accept his underlying premises; it takes practice to ignore the fluff and focus on the crux of the message being delivered.
But did Lennox? Because Lennox responded with a narrative that seemed to seperate the horrors of Christianity from the message of the bible…when actually numerous Christian horrors were biblically based
Hitchens was quite good at masking the straw man and petitio principii fallacies. He was very good at arguing for the emotions of the observers, rather than addressing his interlocutor in good faith.
You're exactly right. He knows God personally in that he knows his character. Oftentimes we hear people paint a picture of God based on misunderstandings and faulty human reasoning. This rebuttal definitely makes sense to the mind of Christ!!
The holy spirit has came into me many times. The only thing I want anymore is for the holy spirit to keep coming into me everyday and every single moment because it feels so good when the holy spirit comes inside me. It just gets better when he calls me a naughty boy and that just gets me going.
I didnt expect to be listening and want to stop every other argument and correct the very crux of it. I know i ought not to be surprised the worldly don't understand, but it still throws me for a loop when i hear their arguments.
As the Bible assures us. Colossians 1:16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things have been created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
Are Atheists and Christians worshippers of the Creator? ANSWER - No, Atheists and Christians KNOW that they hate the Creator and want their families and neighbors and the whole world to hate him too and believe their LIE and false claim that the Creator is unworthy and undeserving to be honored and respected as the True and Sovereign GOD. Are the lives, dignities, and existence on earth of human beings important and valuable to the Creator? ANSWER - Yes, The Creator KNOWS that Atheists, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions are mocking and insulting him as worthless and useless but he knows too that all lowly, ordinary, kind, and respectful persons on earth who willingly submit to the authority of his Christ and put their faith and hope in his teachings about the "Kingdom of GOD" and "Resurrection of the Dead" as written in Matthew 28: 18, Luke 4: 43, and John 11: 25, 26 are his Worshippers and Followers of his Christ on earth who can be trusted with anything and are worthy and deserving of his favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4. The Creator KNOWS that all human beings will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth after their deaths just like the animals as written in Ecclesiastes 3: 19, 20 ; 9: 5, 6 but he knows too that he will not let his loving, kind, and respectful worshippers who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Daniel, Jesus Christ's followers, and many others to remain as worthless and useless dusts on earth forever, instead, in the right and proper time, he will let Jesus Christ RESURRECT them back to life so they can all happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD" or His Kingdom and fully enjoy his and his Christ's eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
@kos-mos1127 atheists put blind faith in the belief that a non-programmed-by-a-Mind, unguided-by-a-Mind accident can be "trusted" to give them "truth." I don't have enough blind faith to be an atheist!
Here's one thing I want to point out. If God is all-knowing and omnipotent, how is He arrogant? Arrogance would have to suggest that someone is overstepping their own boundaries. Thinking they're better than they are. I think the next time someone suggests God is arrogant or anything similar, the person should immediately stop them right there and ask for clarification.
@JiraiyaSama86 Where does one begin lol ... how about letting things getting so out of hand that he had to commit genocide or having a bible that contradicts itself in many places that's used to arrive at opposite moral positions or forgetting to smite Abraham for having an incestuous relationship with his half sister. The list goes on and on. These are charitably called mistakes the only other option is that God is evil
@@francisa4636you're attempting to use the gift of free will against God? You'd prefer tyrannical automation over free will and having the grace of a creator?
@anthonyoer4778 free will doesn't exist, nor does free will negate the fact that the bible is contradictory or that genocide on God's own creation is indicative of a mistake nor any of the other mistakes in the bible. Do better
"... you must tell me of a right action.... that I could not (would not?) make myself" Hitchens. you sir,would not die for your enemy. God/YWHW is truly great.
What “humility” is involved in Lennox peddling pathetic lies about evolution and utter nonsense about branches of science he’s never bothered his pompous duff to actually study. An arrogant, dishonest old buffoon
@@projectbirdfeederman5491 I encourage you to read the Bible to discover for yourself if the God of the Bible is truly awful or otherwise Actually read the Bible in context, with the understanding that just because something doesn't make sense to you does not automatically make it wrong or a contradiction
Are Atheists and Christians worshippers of the Creator? ANSWER - No, Atheists and Christians KNOW that they hate the Creator and want their families and neighbors and the whole world to hate him too and believe their LIE and false claim that the Creator is unworthy and undeserving to be honored and respected as the True and Sovereign GOD. Are the lives, dignities, and existence on earth of human beings important and valuable to the Creator? ANSWER - Yes, The Creator KNOWS that Atheists, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions are mocking and insulting him as worthless and useless but he knows too that all lowly, ordinary, kind, and respectful persons on earth who willingly submit to the authority of his Christ and put their faith and hope in his teachings about the "Kingdom of GOD" and "Resurrection of the Dead" as written in Matthew 28: 18, Luke 4: 43, and John 11: 25, 26 are his Worshippers and Followers of his Christ on earth who can be trusted with anything and are worthy and deserving of his favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4. The Creator KNOWS that all human beings will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth after their deaths just like the animals as written in Ecclesiastes 3: 19, 20 ; 9: 5, 6 but he knows too that he will not let his loving, kind, and respectful worshippers who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Daniel, Jesus Christ's followers, and many others to remain as worthless and useless dusts on earth forever, instead, in the right and proper time, he will let Jesus Christ RESURRECT them back to life so they can all happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD" or His Kingdom and fully enjoy his and his Christ's eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
I know many like myself who believe in a higher power, but don't believe in the Christian representation of the Angry (worship me or burn in agony) God.
Having read Summa Theologiae on the subject of evil, I can tell you that the concept of evil is very nuanced. There is the concept of penalty cause of evil which is by God as the author of all creation, and evil caused by the fault committed by the person. If you do evil (fault) and the consequence is burned in hell, this is evil cause created by God and it is logical. The evil you do is not caused or created by God, it is your own free will as the perpetrator to face the consequence of your actions. Imagine if there is no "bad" consequence to evil actions, what kind of justice will there be.
Gods Mercy... 22. It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. 23. They are * new every morning * great is thy faithfulness. lamentations 3:22 KJV
I love how he is talking about Christians being arrogant and conceded while he is talking in the most patronizing manner I have witnessed in quite some time 😂
It always amazes me the mental gymnastics Christians go through to absolve god of guilt. As if he isn't responsible for evil despite the fact that he allegedly created everything. Like he didn't curse all humanity for the sin of his first children who had no concept of what sin was until they were tricked by something which did, who god also created and allowed to interact with them.
Great vid but I always find it weird watching atheist who have passed on because we as believers know that they are regretting their choices now. Obviously, I understand that they made a conscious decision to reject Christ free gift of salvation but it still bothers me. As for blinded atheists....If only living men knew what dead men know.
Atheist never acknowledged God even on their death bed and passed on in peace. Christians are the ones having visions of hell before the die and screaming for the laws get to pray.
Just five minutes in and Christopher Hitchens mentions "what if your parents said I'll always be watching you, even after I die, always watching and judging" Ok and? Our parents already do that while they are alive! My Mother absolutely judges what I do. Is that so wrong? She may have her opinions and we don't always agree on everything. And we CERTAINLY did not agree when I was a teenage girl and a young adult. But she does so lovingly, and regardless of what SHE thinks, she lets me make my own mistakes and learn from them. You know... sort of like God... So I wouldn't care if my Mother continued to look down on me from Heaven and every once in awhile say "why did you do that? That was dumb..." Cause, it probably was
Ooh can I play, too? Become a priest and touch up little boys Get tax breaks/relief for religious organisations Completely disregard the burden of proof How's that?
This is apt! The hypothetical rendering of the ethical framework that binds us and the divergence it breeds has made those who give their all to the restoration of meaning in existential reality, moral and ethical structures raving lunatics…such a shame.
John Lennox is absolutely wrong about the universe being temporary. Psalm 37:29 "The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it." Psalm 104:5 "He has established the earth on its foundations; It will not be moved from its place forever and ever." In Genesis when God called the earth "ruined" prior to the flood, he did not chose to destroy the earth, rather just cleanse the wicked inhabitants of it. In 2 Peter 3:13 he describes a new "earth" but also a new "heavens". Are we to believe that this verse means there was something wrong with "heaven" and so it also must suffer a heat death? I think it's fair to say this is not talking about the total obliteration of the universe and everything in it, but a renewal or refreshing of what's on it. In context, it's referring to the political powers on the earth being removed and replaced by the reigning King Christ Jesus, but that would take more explanation to rightly explain.
Yeah but physics has shown that eventually all stars will decay, which means life won't be able to exist on Earth anymore. So, clearly that passage can't be true like you say it is.
I didn't see much of an argument from Lennox. His argument for God is predicated on the existence of revelation, Jesus being who he said he is, and his personal relationship with God. These aren't falsifiable and can't be a basis for a rational argument.
Jesus's claims are falsifiable. He either is God, or He is not, and the test for His claims is this, Did Jesus rise from the dead? If the answer is yes, then He is God, if no, He is not. There is plenty of evidence outside the Bible proving Jesus of Nazareth was a real man who lived during the first century as a traveling Jewish teacher. And we know he was executed via crucifixion by the Roman government. The only question left then is did he rise from the dead after his execution. I would encourage you to research the historical evidence for yourself and reach your own conclusions, (as I don't really think anyone has ever been convinced of anything by SOME GUY in the comments of a RUclips video, so listing uncited evidence/claims here and potentially getting sucked into a debate/argument would be a fruitless use of both our times).
Most of the life of a human being is not falsifiable. Rational arguments are rare and mean a lot less to humans. You are squeezing the world into a small box so you can make life a lot more simple. Reality is hard to deal with, but humans do it every day without utilizing "rational arguments".
As a young adult when I was examining different worldviews, I found atheism lacked a basis for purpose or morality. At best it had an expression of like/dislike or selection by survival of the fittest. The best and most honest explanations/proponents of atheism come to that conclusion. I rejected that view based on presupposition, there is real morality and purpose in the universe, humanity, and my own personal existence. I may not have had the philosophical arguments to explain it at the time, but I could see the consequences of such a worldview and its conflict with reality. There are of course other issues and factors that favor theism, but this issue alone was enough to convince me as a young adult.
Atheism is not a belief system. Of course it has no moral framework. It's like asking what is your moral framework as an a-unicornist? How does that frame your morality? It doesn't. And neither does atheism
I see your error. You were evaluating different worldviews based on personal expediency and utility when you should really have judged them on evidence and rationality. You abandoned truth because deep down you just wanted a magic genie.
@@TurinTuramber Morality and purpose are not merely utilities of a worldview, they are central aspects to truth, life, and meaning. Atheism cannot say why it is objectively wrong to torture a child. It fails a basic truth test.
@@Nathan-vt1jz Atheism isn't a social justice framework, just means there are no compelling argument for any Gods. Simple actually. Funny to me how the people pretending to have objective morality decreed by God are the same people that will partially cut off an infant's penis and offer it up as a literal blood sacrifice. They then tell their children for years that they will burn in hellfire for eternity if they don't enter into their superstitious cult and then have the temerity to lecture atheists about their "superior" objective morality regarding torturing children.
I'm sure everyone will be saying the same thing and lennox obviously hit on it. But after the fall of man the entire point was that we could NOT , make ourselves well. We cannot fix ourselves and was why Jesus provided the grace for us
@@kos-mos1127So I have an honest question. So we both seem to agree that this world is in a fallen or imperfect state. Do you believe that evolution has failed because it couldn't come up with the perfect world? How does evolution overcome the problem of suffering, people harming one another and death?
@@kos-mos1127Ok, so you don't define it as fallen. So what is the evolutionist or atheists prescription for suffering, death, or people committing heinous crimes against one another? I've been trying to understand how one with an atheistic mind thinks outside of your lack of beliefs in God.
“Makes such sense” Militant atheism is a walking ball of self contradiction and cognitive dissonance!! The irony and the absurdity is that it’s common knowledge that in the end Christopher Hitchens actually became an enthusiastic apologist for the dirty deeds of the American empire AND ACTIVELY PROMOTED AMERICAN INTERVENTION IN THE BALKANS AND MIDDLE EAST- yes? …in Christopher Hitchens own words… “The crucial thing is to be willing and able, if not in fact eager, to kill them without pity before they get started.” (Christopher Hitchens). Yeah makes great sense? CRINGE ATHEISM in full effect!! It's that last phrase that's particularly chilling. Reference: ('The Age' 5th September 2002): I rest my case!!
“Hitchens makes such sense.” Listening to militant atheists pontificating about ultimate “TRUTH” and the importance of “MAKING SENSE” whilst subscribing to the belief that we are all nothing more substantive than ULTIMATELY MEANINGLESS, HOLLOW AND SOULLESS APES WHO SHARE HALF THEIR DNA WITH A POTATO IS PRICELESS!! Moreover, listening to militant atheists unwittingly preaching about metaphysical realities such as ultimate “TRUTH” and “SENSE” whilst subscribing the belief that we are all nothing more substantive than ULTIMATELY MEANINGLESS, HOLLOW AND SOULLESS, OVERGROWN AMOEBAS WITH DELUSIONS OF GRANDEUR is just pure CRINGE . Its as entertaining as watching someone trying to thrash the front of his car with the branch of a tree in order to BEAT IT INTO SUBMISSION! It's very Basil Fawlty like at times and very Monty Python like at times! But without the comedy value! CRINGE ATHEISM in full effect!!
Man, Hitchens is good at mental gymnastics. You really have to contort your brain to believe that when presented so concisely with the truth. It probably does make his hubris seem self-justified. It's funny he brings up how a Christian wouldn't know right from wrong without God...yes, that's true: atheism cannot explain why 95% of all morals are shared by everyone the world over and cannot justify any moral at all beyond "popular agreement" or such. He mentions evil, but how can there be evil with an atheistic view?
The right and good statement, or more accurately profession, that all true believers and followers can make that Mr Hitchens can't is "Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior" and "I can do nothing truly good and beautiful apart from Him in my life"! In Christ, Andrew
The Creator KNOWS that he authorized and sent Jesus Christ from heaven to earth thousands of years ago to preach and teach the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" to imperfect, suffering, and dying human beings. Jesus Christ KNOWS that thousands of years ago, he revealed that the Creator is the True and Sovereign GOD and exposed Satan the Devil as the Father of Lies and Murderer of Human beings ATHEISTS and EVOLUTIONISTS WILL NOT LIVE and LAST on EARTH FOREVER Jesus Christ KNOWS that all Atheists and Evolutionists who let themselves be tricked and deceived by Satan the Devil to reject his authority and teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" as worthless and useless and fill the world instead with the LIE and false claim that the Creator doesn't exist and even if existing is still unworthy and undeserving to be honored and respected as the True and Sovereign God will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth forever after their deaths... lied to, deceived, and murdered by Satan the Devil. FANATICS of ALL RELIGIONS WILL NOT LIVE and LAST on EARTH FOREVER Jesus Christ KNOWS that all Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions in the world who let themselves be tricked and deceived by Satan the Devil to reject his authority and teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" as worthless and useless and fill the world instead with their own LIES and false teachings about "Trinity", "heaven and hellfire", "Armageddon", "rapture", and "reincarnation" will never be glorified in their make-believe and fairy tale Heaven nor tortured for eternity in their invented and fictitious Hell but just become worthless and useless dusts on earth forever after their deaths.... lied to, deceived, and murdered by Satan the Devil. WORSHIPPERS of the CREATOR WILL LIVE and EXIST on EARTH FOREVER The Creator KNOWS that all lowly, ordinary, kind, and respectful persons on earth who willingly submit to the authority of his Christ and put their faith and hope in his teachings about the "Kingdom of GOD" and "Resurrection of the Dead" as written in Matthew 28: 18, Luke 4: 43, and John 11: 25, 26 are his Worshippers and Followers of his Christ on earth who can be trusted with anything and are worthy and deserving of his favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4. The Creator KNOWS that all human beings will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth after their deaths just like the animals as written in Ecclesiastes 3: 19, 20 ; 9: 5, 6 but he knows too that he will not let his loving, kind, and respectful worshippers who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Daniel, Jesus Christ's followers, and many others to remain as worthless and useless dusts on earth forever, instead, in the right and proper time, he will let Jesus Christ RESURRECT them back to life so they can all happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD" or His Kingdom and fully enjoy his and his Christ's eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings for eternity under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
5:11 it's pretty clear that we are to go do good work for 6 days in the week and then come together on the 7th day. So that doesn't make sense, God doesn't get in our way he lets us go and then we come to him on the Sabbath for Spiritual and Physical refreshment.
He'd have to accept God _before_ judgment - there aren't any second chances after death, but we have many until we take our final breath (or the mark, whichever happens first). Did he die?
@@angiew2324Not true, even after death Jesus' unfathomable mercy beckons the soul to enter paradise. And if it refuses, it sentences itself to hell. Read the Diary of Saint Faustina.
@@angiew2324according to hundreds of NDEs that is false. Jesus has pulled many from Hell when they truly asked for him. Many NDEers attest to this. There is a difference between eternity and forever. We think within the context of time. Outside of time one moment feels like centuries and a moment at the same time. When one goes to Hell it is for eternity but eternity is not forever. You can be in Hell for just a moment and that would feel like an eternity because there is no time. At least, this is the explaination I have gleaned through listening to hundreds of NDEs. The key to understanding that is one woman who died and spoke to her guardian angel and thr angel told her "I have known you for eternities." In the plural. Wrap your head around that. Howard Storm is a great Hell testimony where Jesus saved him.
“Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool.” Oh the irony!! Remember the good old days when thoughtful atheists, that is when “thoughtful” moral subjectivist’s and “thoughtful” epistemological nihilists used to give intelligent and powerful arguments [for] a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism??? NEITHER DO I!! Or even better!! Remember the good old days when thoughtful atheists, that is when “thoughtful” moral subjectivist’s and “thoughtful” epistemological nihilists used to give intelligent and powerful arguments [against] the fundamental nature of [MIND/CONSCIOUSNESS/THE ACTUAL/THE ONE/MONOTHEISM]??? NEITHER DO I!! Interesting fact, “NEW ATHEISM” that is moral subjectivism and epistemological nihilism is exactly like the old atheism if the old atheism was bitten by two infected bats called Darth Dawkins and Darth profoundly pointless and got a over Zealous strain of RABIES!!
@@COMPNOR Former Episcopalian Priest Alan Watts explains that Preachers are dangerous and that everybody and EVERYTHING IS God in his lectures - On Being God. And - What is Reality?
Lennox "The God that I know...." Lennox, like all theists, does not know God as he's never met, seen nor conversed with him in a 2 way interaction to actually know him. He goes by the stories that anonymous gospel writers have written about a person that claims he knew god. For Lennox to 'know' God then proceed to extrapolate a meaning from his view of him clearly shows an ambiguous, vague and non straightforward deity that requires clarification. It seems that the conclusion is that Lennox requires to explain his god. In that case if god can't speak for himself and requires shills to that that for him then he's not that good a deity.
There is plenty of evidence. If I recommend an article to you, would you approach it open-mindedly in hopes for an answer? Because that's the thing about a lot of people who demand "evidence," they believe in the certainty of their ideologies and leave no room for anything contrary
@MrBsteers Also, God speaks to us by His audible voice, visions, etc, but He primarily leads/reveals Himself to the believer via His word (the Bible) and the inward witness of the Holy Spirit so yes, John Lennox, just like any true believer of the Gospel, does know God. Or at least we are on the lifelong journey of knowing Him for the magnificence that He is
Job 38:1, " Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said: “Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Dress for action like a man; I will question you, and you make it known to me. “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements-surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?". Thank God for Jesus❤
I used to really like and follow Christopher Hitchens in my teens, he was a large reason for my atheism (possibly agnostic). Now as an adult, and with more knowledge (and hopefully wisdom), I see that I was enticed by the poetic delivery and clever language used by Hitchens but not the underlying logic of the arguments (which are not as well informed as I first thought). I actually think the current science leans in favour of Gods existence and the teaching of Jesus. Living a life of faith (now Catholic in my case) has been extremely rewarding and has brought extraordinary revelation in my life.
“audacity to strawman Hitchens” SMOKESCREEN!! Militant atheism is a walking ball of self contradiction and cognitive dissonance!! Sorry but “STRAWMAN” according to who? or what absolute, universal, objective standard of measure exactly? Professor John Lennox ”STRAW-MANNED” Christopher Hitchens according to the standard of an overgrown amoeba with illusions of grandeur? Or “STRAW-MANNED” according to the standard of an ULTIMATELY MEANINGLESS, HOLLOW AND SOULLESS APE WHO SHARES HALF THEIR DNA WITH A POTATO? Your world view, your absurdity, your ultimately meaningless, hollow and soulless ape, your potato, your existential crisis and your epistemological crisis not the theists!!
@@bassmanjr100 The point... is that the original post is trying to use Einstein as some sort of authority but the quote does not represent his actual position. I'm surprised I needed to explain that. 😂
Reminds me a a book I want to read called, “Is God a moral monster? Making sense of the Old Testament.” People will point to examples of genocide in the Bible and question why God would do that without understanding God or the Bible. Also, I completely agree with anything John Lennox says because he’s right.
No he’s not. The ultimate arrogance of religion is believing that you are 100% correct with zero evidence to back it up. At least science will acknowledge that they don’t know everything and never will.
@@borbafatt luckily, every Christian that I know isn't plagued by this arrogance you're describing. There are sure to be others, too, but at the very least every Christian does have evidence. I'll agree with you about the wiccans and the Hindus, though.
@@461weavile of course you agree about other religions because you’re just as blind as everyone that you were claiming you’re not. Your religion is no less a fraud than any of other others. Not a single Christian walking this earth has any evidence because there isn’t any evidence.
Love it. These videos always further reinforce my views on rejecting religion. Almost as much as listening to Hitchens, Carlin and reading the bible itself.
“Further reinforce my views on rejecting religion” SMOKESCREEN!! How about supporting your statement with actual arguments instead of employing the logical fallacy of argumentation through assertion - yes? Sorry but the fact is that under a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism your very ironic “REINFORCEMENT” argument has no more “TRUTH” value than leaves blowing in the wind - right? The ENORMOUS ELEPHANT in the room is that under a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism “YOU”, the leaves and your very ironic appeal to your own authority fallacy are destined for the same place buddy [THE FERTILISER PIT/THE ROTTING SH…T PILE/THE GRAVE/THE VOID/OBLIVION]! Prove me “WRONG”? I’ll wait!!
@georgedoyle2487 thank you for responding. First, arent logical fallacies errors pointed out during an argument? I was making more of a declarative statement than arguing with someone. Suppose it was a fallacy, you still did not disprove and could not have disproven my statement, as I did not provide details of what reinforced my beliefs, so I have no clue ehat you are getting at. Unless, you are emotionally connected to my statement and your ego needed to comment. Besides your "leaves blowing in the wind" comparrison is suppose to explain what exactly? You also repeated yourself, so not sure what that purpose was for, as it was just empty space. How am I appealing to my own authority by listening to these videos, finding errors that reinforce my own beliefs? Are people not allowed to question and challenge their own beliefs and think for oneself? Well, in religion, that appears to be the case, so I see where you are coming from. You want me to prove you wrong that I am not going to what you claim is hell? I hope I misunderstood, since that would be a very moronic question/challenge. Feel free to ellaborate, without the repetition, if possible. Thanks.
@@valdezfam “I have no clue what you are getting at” SMOKESCREEN!! Listening to militant atheists unwittingly pontificating about metaphysical realities such as ultimate “TRUTH” and “VALUE” and preaching about the dangers of being too “EMOTIONALLY CONNECTED” whilst desperately trying to ram it down everyone’s throats that we are all nothing more substantive than ULTIMATELY MEANINGLESS, HOLLOW AND SOULLESS APES WHO SHARE HALF THEIR DNA WITH A POTATO IS PRICELESS!!
Notice how no one or not many critiques Martin Luther King Jnr. speeches. Two of the reasons are because MLK Jnr. spoke truth with love and did not mischaracterize his opponents, which is quite unlike Mr. Hitchens caricature/strawman of God as the 1984 Big Brother.
@@reality1958 “a well spoken atheist for sure” I’m British myself so we are not so easily impressed by how “WELL SPOKEN” someone is. Particularly someone like Hitchens who clearly used half truths, speculation and poor research to demonise his political opponents! Moreover, the fact is that militant atheism, that is fatalism and epistemological nihilism is a CULT MOVEMENT hidden behind the cloak of “rationality” and scientism and materialism of the gaps fallacies, that constantly uses anti religious Soviet hate propaganda left over from the Cold War. That is history revisionism and dishonest memes and buzz words to mock, badger and demonise anyone who challenges its secular myths and metaphysical presuppositions. Militant atheism is no different to debating a recruiter from the church of Scientology who just won’t leave you alone!! Furthermore, the fact is that demonising religious expression, that is demonising your political opponents by pretending that they are all massive “PROBLEM” who “poison” and prey upon humanity, is an ancient propaganda tool that’s been used by everyone from medieval dictators, to serial killers to the Soviet Unions propaganda machine. “Death is the solution to all problems, no man no problem.” - [Joseph Stalin].
Hitchens was a wonderful rhetorician in general, but he was a shallow thinker when it comes to the big questions of life. Lennox doesn't have Hitchens's rhetorical flourish and way with words, though Lennox is far more eloquent than most people including me, but Lennox is by far the more profound thinker compared to Hitchens.
@@markh1011 1. It's true Lennox isn't as deep a thinker as, say, someone like Alvin Plantinga, nor does he offer as good arguments as Plantinga, but Lennox is significantly more profound and offers better arguments than Hitchens on the topics of their debate. 2. Honestly I think what you said better characterizes Hitchens than Lennox, if we only limit our comparisons to these two men.
@@damienschwass9354 You can do whatever you like, of course, including redefining words to mean something they don't actually mean. But I can't reason with the unreasonable, and so I'm afraid I'll have to leave you to your fantastical imaginary world. 🙃
@@philtheo no, I can accept the meaning of profound you might provide but see what you are giving as an example of it (Lennox’s points) as an example of delusion, instead.
I am NOT an atheist but I miss the great man Christopher Hitchens.. he was one of the greatest minds of this generation and I learnt so much from him ..and this Lenox guy certainly couldn’t beat Hitchens in any debate
Poor Hitchens. So in love with his own voice, brain and opinions that he had no clue. But we must allow him his eternal straw-man god, since he simply could not move beyond it or, ironically, do without it.
5:48 I think you're missing the point Hitchens was trying to make here. I consider his point being that *if* you accept that there's supernatural personal god, then the argument follows that he was saying. His point was that there's zero evidence for the god existing at all so that argument doesn't follow.
I believe what they're saying is that Hitchens fought every step of the way to deny the existing God and any need for a personal savior but like Shakespeare's quote, "Me thinks he doth protest too much." After all, if God doesn't exist, why so angry at him?
It seems that Hitchens' 'hatred' for god stems from the actions of a specific faith that calls him allah. Just saying. The Christian God, in the form of Jesus, never suggested those types of actions.
His ire was for anything representing gods or God. I think there was some form of trauma in his life as child related to Christianity. My dad and aunt had a pretty traumatic time for a couple years in precocial school, but I think often happened with strong willed kids. The biggest issue for a decent number of atheists and God deniers usually stems from bad representatives. I'm not trying to condemn any of them since we all fall short, some of them do a better job at alienating some and nurturing others.
Unfortunately, people often blame God because they have bad encounters with "good" Christians who are in fact not good Christians and who are sinners but because the child is never exposed to actual good Christians who teach them this their perceptions of Christians is based on falsehoods and they develop an extreme prejudicial bias.
Matthew 22:35-38 NKJV [35] Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, [36] “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the law?” [37] Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ [38] This is the first and greatest commandment.
You're right, he didn't, although there is a good answer easy to find by searching. But he did say he wouldn't be able to get to everything in his response
Its SIN… our earthly bodies are sick because of SIN. Sin also gets passed down, we inherit sin, we have demons influencing sin, causing sin, indulging in sin. Literally all it takes is reading the Bible to have these answers! Lol
@@geromlili2548 I just did lol, its inherited through generations and demonic influence. The sins your grandparents and great grandparents committed is passed down through their families. This is WHY there is sickness and death, because of the fall (sin) of Adam and Eve. You can either accept that truth or ignore it and continue to try and confirm your bias but that will only lead to temporary relief and lead to even more questions as to why things aren’t adding up later on in life. Because there isn’t any true answer in seeking things you WANT to be true, instead of seeking THE truth.
It's interesting to me how atheists like Hitches cannot state their POV in simpler terms. You are assuming that every atheists is smarter than any Christian but as I watched the debate it seemed to me that Lennox did not have to cloud his POV with a large vocabulary which Hitchens uses to try and make himself " appear " as the smartest person on the stage. It's a great debate technique but it is merely camouflage for the weakness of his positions. The commentator was merely getting rid of all the " fluff" Hitchens always uses to state Hitchens POV in a more direct and succinct manner which Hitchens either cannot do or does deliberately to hide the weakness of his actual statements.
@@Laird1956 English is my second language and I understand Hitchens perfectly (a bit harder when listening to J.Peterson though). You don't understand Hitchens and I don't see arguments of the other side as valid, but I respect the speaker though. This seems to be a good topic for a debate, but it's one sided depending on who's listening.
So again thank you for re-emphasing my point. Your reply and your original comment assume that atheists are always the " smartest people in the room ". I understand Hitchens perfectly. Every word, every meaning of everything he said. There's no reason to discuss any further with you because it seems that although you understand Hitchens perfectly and I according to you don't. ( an incorrect assumption) you apparently cannot understand my basic point which is atheists assume that all Christians are not as smart as they are. I have studied the atheist POV for years. Read all the books. Seen all the arguments So I have investigated my opponent. Have you done a deep dive to really understand Christianity? Maybe you have...I'm sure you're very bright. Being smart is overrated. I will take wisdom. It's hard in a text to convey my POV without sounding as if I am trying to stroke my own ego. Please understand that is not my purpose. I try every day to surrender it. So I will not debate who's the smartest people in any room because it's unprovable but I will pray that you at least open up your own mind that there does at least exist a possibility that humans may not be as smart as we think we are. I will pray for you.
@@Laird1956 So much to discuss and talk about here...I was just surprised when you wrote that Hitchens should use simpler language. I apologize for implying that you didn't understand him. I'm profoundly convinced that the the gospel is greatly misinterpreted by the church and therefore misleading. I also am conviced the christian portrayal of God is misleading, too so I don't believe in that God. I believe that the Universe isn't stupid as it couldn't have produced an intelligent beings. I believe we are in a sense an image of this intelligent Universe, we came from it, and eventually going back to it. I don't believe God is outside the Universe. I believe that everything is God. The reality itself. The existence itself. An intelligent existence which is so close, so simple that you don't see it.
@@TurinTuramber Interesting fact, “NEW ATHEISM” that is moral subjectivism and epistemological nihilism is exactly like the old atheism if the old atheism was bitten by two infected bats called Darth Dawkins and Darth Posh but profoundly pointless and got a over Zealous strain of RABIES!!
@TurinTuramber I don't think it was meant to be an argument. Just a short factual comment and observation. You don't have to be any arrogant person to be an athiest 'preacher' but it is a very common trait.
Something Christopher Hitchens claimed is something he couldn't state himself that a believer could, if you're sticking to being an atheist; here goes. Q1. The word moral is translated from the Latin moralis, it is derived from the Ethos, Pathos, Logos, the ancient Greek, the explanation to determine morals; Logos meaning God meaning word of God, reasoning, created order. If your argument is morals, then you can claim morals, like false teachings and religion, but by its definition, you can't claim the true derivative; in order to have true morals, to argue its origin, is like trying to say that a three leg bar stool is a functional with two legs it, will fall all the time without the third support. Q2. Faith is not exclusive to truth, so here's a false faith that has done wicked. Jeremiah 19:4-5 4. Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the blood of innocents; 5. they have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind: Non biblical action is carried out, but it is argued biblically as well for false faith; which is prevalent today in false faith. John 16:1-3 1. These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. 2. They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. 3. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me. The right statement you couldn't have made that a believer could, is similar Richard Dawkins statement, even if God's voice boomed across the sky saying I'm God, and I am real, he would believe that he was having a hallucination. In the way of the augment even if you could have shown Christopher Hitchens what he asked for, and in seeing it for himself, he probably wouldn't want to believe it, as where a true believer in God could. Now here's the kicker, you could argue back and forth, but one thing you can't argue is that the bible says, Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; If Moses couldn't convince pharaoh, what makes you think you can convince an atheist to believe, rather you can deliver the message, if it's accepted, fine, if it's not who am I as a believer to think I can usurp Gods time and place. Matthew 10:14 14. And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Learning to walk away is not the same as abandoning, you have done your part, the rest is up to God, if an atheist turns you have gained a brother, if not then neither party has lost what they never had; if an atheist keeps coming to you to argue after that, then they are seeking God, and probably don't even release it. Case and point is prevalent the minute you argue there is no God, it's like arguing, there's no such thing as thoughts or dreaming, nobody else can see what you see in your sleep, yet you know it's there, and no matter how much you describe it, nobody can experience what you have experienced, so to some it's just a silly dream, but to others it has fruition.
Allow me to rephrase that for you: "Please God, don't let me die. Not me, surely not me. I'm too "special" to die. Spare me the inevitable fate of every living organism".
@@donthesitatebegin9283 You can rephrase it however you want, regardless of its sensical reply, it's your choice, and if you're an atheist, your welcome, as your reply is case and point, God loves you, and you don't realise it. Biblically rephrased to your statement. Philippians 1:20-21 20. according to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death. 21. For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. Put another way. Mark 8:34-36 34. And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 35. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. 36. For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? What do you want to gain in relation to origin to the meaning of the word moral, if it's to find meaning in an argument, well you have missed your own point, that to you if God doesn't exist, to argue anything is to argue with yourself.
@@froyaw7239 Allow me to rephrase that: "You can't shame me for my magical-thinking, sheer narcissism and self-involved childish beliefs, because I have no sense of shame. All that matters to me is that I don't die".
People may try to shame you, but that's not what I want for you in the heart God has given me, I would rather you're an atheist or a believer, but not at the expense of shaming you. What's the point of saying I love God, yet I want to shame or hurt another human; that if I believe that God made you and everyone in His image, then where is the Love of God in me. Rather is this, you and I both have this commonality, that you don't die, but in my case without the Love of God, however I can't force you to accept agape, all I can do is this, bring you what I believe share with you, and hope that your heart is eventually opened to it. If your heart is hardened because of condemnation preached at you, it's because the point is missed by them preaching condemnation for condemnation's sake, because nobody can ever be the God they say they believe in. If you don't believe your heart is hardened by condemnation, then it's likely you wouldn't have replied to me, but regardless, if you ever want to know God, message me in the hope God gives me a message for you. Don't message me if you don't want to hear about God; I have no condemnation towards you if you message me or not.
The collision of Andromeda and our Milky Way is best termed a "merger". Both these galaxies are mainly made up of empty space, despite containing countless starts, so it's not like a collision of solid objects.
Brilliant- thanks. I am happy to collect your gullibility money for my god because he wants me to get a new beer fridge and put an air conditioner in the bedroom so he can send me cool or warm off-season messages.
@VaughanMcCue one thing that he forgot to mention (even though he didn't have to): If your wishes brings you closer God, then it's from God If you're wishes pushes you away from God, then it's not from God Jesus taught us to be contempt with what we have, in the story of the rich man (Matthew 19). To yearn for materialistic things to please our materialistic desires is not from God
@@AreEnTee I am sure your comment has fallacious thinking, but I can remember its description. Mythical stories like this originate in Greek and other ancient traditions. Is wishing for a return to the health of a sick child materialistic? If I pray that my bank robbery goes to plan and I succeed, as long as I am thankful to my chosen god, will you and Zeus be happy?
@VaughanMcCue i would say wishing for health is not materialistic, but robbing a bank is. If you rob a bank, you are robbing other people's money that's not yours. Whereas wishing for health is completely different scenario compared to a bank robbery And I am sorry for my ignorance, can you tell me why my comment might have fallacious thinking?
@@AreEnTee Health is material because we can see and feel the results by measurement. For example, a cure for a fever would show that the infection has gone because the bacteria will be dead under a microscope, and the body temperature will return to normal. Robbing a bank is no different than church leaders tricking gullible and poor people into giving 'god' their money and the pastor (god's self-appointed manager) using the money for whatever he wants. Banks charge interest but do not give it to the poor like in Prov 28:8, but a bank robber who steals and gives to the poor IS doing their god's work. The fallacy is Affirming the Consequent, but I am a unsure. Chat GBT:- Imagine you have a rule: "If it rains, the ground gets wet." Now, someone might see wet ground and think, "Ah, it must have rained!" But here's the thing: Just because the ground is wet doesn't mean it rained. Maybe someone watered the plants, or there was a leaky pipe. So, affirming the consequent fallacy is when you assume that because something happened. (the ground is wet), the initial condition must have happened, too (it must have rained). However, there could be other reasons for the result besides the initial condition. There is something you might like to think about. What test do you or any believer use to verify that their actions are what their god wants? It would appear as though that person is claiming to know the mind of their god. I believe that is true because everyone invents a god that suits themselves. Some real Christians think Saturday is the correct holy day, and others believe it is Sunday. If they are both correct, then you have to accept all the different rules that every Christian denomination adopts, such as approved foods, yes or no to blood transfusions, yes or no to polygamy, etcetera. For a perfect book, the bible is undoubtedly a source of great confusion. 1Cor 14:16
@@jeffreyterrio5665 God created Evil - Isaiah 45 : 7 KJV 7. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. Fortunately, I know this is bull and if you weren’t credulous you would too. There is no evidence for your belief in a god nor is there any evidence for a satan.
@@LosAngelesDrummeryes there is. I have a photo of a spirit next to my daughter that you can see as clearly as her. My friend has a video of himself with one flying around him for 2 minutes. Those 2 things alone are EVIDENCE are they not? Ive also seen demons with my own eyes. You cant see touch taste feel smell or hear gravity yet its real, isnt it? I used to be like you, but atheists who turn to believers do so because they have encounters with God or the supernatural. Some find out playing around with witchcraft, Ouija boards or black magic. God says seek me and you will find me. The word of God is alive. If you seek him and obey his commandments, you wont just see God, you won’t stop being able to see him. He speaks to you and you can hear his voice. Doctors in a hospital did a study of people they would kill then bring back to life. They did a test where they took tape and outlined different shapes on top of the light fixtures on the ceiling because people who have died and come back to life all claim the first thing they see is them leaving their body, they can see themselves and they float to the ceiling. The results of the study were the patients perfectly identified the shapes they hid on the lights on the ceiling. They didn’t inform the patients about the symbols they hid, they just asked them what they saw
@@LosAngelesDrummerGod created us and we are evil, he created satan and he is the father of evil. I have evidence God exists but RUclips doesn’t allow photo sharing
@@jeffreyterrio5665 utter nonsensical illusions wished to be real by very credulous people. If you want to be awe-inspired, ladies and gentlemen, and let me say, let me just tell you that those of us that do not believe we are divinely created, let alone divinely supervised, are not immune to the idea of awe and beauty and the transcendent. Let me invite you to look for a moment at the pictures taken by the James Webb telescope. Perhaps you have done it. If you haven’t done it now, or yet, do it soon. The extraordinary revelations of swirling, yet somehow beautiful new galaxies in color and depth in majesty like nothing I think the human eye has ever seen. Turn away from that if you wish and gaze at a burning bush in an illiterate desert part in the Middle East and say that’s where revelation comes from. Let’s also never forget when religion professed that the earth was flat and the center of everything and it was the sun that revolved around us. Let’s not forget that the church believed that earthquakes were caused by an angry god, knew nothing of plate tectonics. Religion had no clue about micro organisms. Religion has run out of justifications. It has had to give up so much in the name of science and will continue to yield to controlled science. Religion insults our intelligence as well as our innate morality by insisting that we believe absurdities that are drawn from the Bronze Age.
Hitchens does not comprehend that he will never be able to measure an Infinite Being , God, by his minuscule and finite understanding. He paints a finite God on the wall and then ridicule’s his false version of what God truly is.
Define moral, and then explain how loving God and all that follows from that, i.e. wanting a relationship with God involving prayer, study of His word, and the practice of His word out of love for Him has no morality to it. And who is this 'we' who decides what is moral and immoral?@@damienschwass9354
Letting go of your godhood to accept the authority of God over you is moral. It is a humbling of your pride, which is the original sin.@@damienschwass9354
I was raised in the southern Baptist church. That i saw a siner and will be judged when i die. I'm 75 now and have come to understand a power has always watched over me. Not the teachings of a church. When god made everything he put it in motion and that is the law of nature The others two are law of man and God. Out biggest failing as humans is we ignore the laws of nature and as a child we burn our hands even though we were warned not to touch. Look back through time a you will see how we continue to believe we can do whatever we want and nature will give us a pass. Living in tornado alley thinking you home want get hit. Yet a hole town can be destroyed and a baby was found in the destruction unharmed. I think that power thats watched over me spared that child.
Neil Tyson said something like the andromeda galaxy and the milky way could collide but because they're so big and far apart the probability of planets or stars hitting is so little. so that itself can't be counted as an apocalyptic event. 😂
Powerful discussion, kudos to both gentlemen. Here are few examples of how one can challenge some claims of Christopher Hitchens: When Hitchens claimed that Einstein repudiated any belief in a "personal God or savior or divine revelation: "While he did not adhere to religious doctrines, Einstein himself said 'I'm not an atheist' and spoke of feeling profound 'reverence for the sublime' in nature. He believed in a cosmic intelligence or reason underlying the rationality of the universe - what we might call an impersonal conception of the divine. To claim he repudiated any sense of the supernatural is simply incorrect based on Einstein's own words." After Hitchens ranted about the futility of the temporary, decaying universe: "The temporality of this present universe is a feature, not a bug. The Bible itself prophesies about the heavens and earth being re-made anew after this era. This objection only holds if one has the atheistic assumption that this material realm is all that exists. For Christians, it is just the beginnings of a much grander reality and an eternal cosmos to come." When Hitchens described religious beliefs as stemming from blind subservience to a "celestial dictator": "Christianity views God as a loving father who gave humans the ultimate free will to choose or reject that relationship. If anything, it was atheistic dictatorships of the 20th century that deprived human freedom and tried to coercively impose a certain worldview. The Christian tradition gave us individual liberty of conscience." On Hitchens' challenge about moral actions only believers can perform, a stronger reply could have been: "While we can agree all humans can recognize moral truths, the honest atheist has no objective basis to call any act truly 'moral' or 'immoral' in an ultimate sense. If we're all just accidental by-products of mindless naturalistic processes, rational minds trapped in irrational biology as you imply, then there are no objective moral values, obligations or duties. Only beliefs rooting ethics in the commands of a God can ground a fully coherent moral framework." Regarding Hitchens' depiction of God as constantly watching and invigilating humans: "How freeing is the Christian notion that an omniscient God knows us completely, yet still wants a relationship with us as we are - not demanding perfection but offering grace? What unprecedented acceptance. In contrast, an impersonal universe without consciousness behind it doesn't actually 'see' any of us as individuals with purpose or value. That is the lonelier reality."
TLDR. Was it about how "special" you are in the eyes of the very Creator of the Universe, how he "loves you" and "won't let you die" because you are so "special"?
Us humans by our own standards have failed terribly and yet we have the nerve to try and dictate Gods actionsand decide for him what a good God would've done😂. The "well if God was so good then why doesn't he do this or that?" question is valid but then again if you refuse certain facts then it will never mean much to you. If you refuse to accept the fact that we live in a fallen world then nothing God does will make sense to you and maybe you can revist this issue later on if you'll still have time😊😊❤ Otherwise these videos are always a blessing.
“unsupported” “UNSUPPORTED” according to who? or what absolute, universal, objective standard of measure exactly? “UNSUPPORTED” according to the standard of an overgrown amoeba with illusions of grandeur? Or “UNSUPPORTED” according to nothing more substantive than an ULTIMATELY MEANINGLESS, HOLLOW AND SOULLESS APE WHO SHARES HALF THEIR DNA WITH A POTATO? I’ll wait!! Militant atheism is a walking ball of self contradiction and cognitive dissonance!!
I keep hearing about how smart Lennox is, but then he opens his mouth and spews garbage arguments and I feel stupider. He keeps talking about “the god I know……” smh this is a debate???
If God is real, he completely doesn't care about our happiness or comfort. And also the sun rises on the wicked and the saints just the same. I watch the wicked live long lives and I'm perplexed
@@kladies3021 That's all good... but in the process, justice is delayed or non existent because they're living comfortably. It's contradictory to reaping what you sow.
God Himself is the good itself. Bad people can cruxify the good for the reason which the bad thinks very good. But at last it is God who will judge each one, the good and the bad. Hope all the people to open their eyes to see and the believe in God! Abel lives in God even after having been killed by Cain, but Cain dies in Hell. So finally, the real miserable is not the good, but the bad. The only way out for the bad is to stop doing bad.But without the help of God, the bad cannot stop doing bad based on their evil and stupid nature. Only after they can believe in and obey Jesus, the Holy Spirit will guide , help and discpline them, and then they are saved from sins, which keep them far away from the real good, but addicted in the bad.
Thanks, Brandon. I find it bizarre that Hitchens failed to find anyone who could meet his "challenge". Did he just hear what they said only to dismiss it without really ever genuinely considering it? Or did he tend to encounter those only with a theoretical knowledge of God? If it was the latter, that would be deeply sad. There are so many you could say, and especially those that relate to the spiritual gifts : to pray for someone is the most obvious, to relay a message from God to someone (that might take many different forms, and might consist of different stages- waiting on the Lord, etc), to pray for healing or forgiveness or wholeness or some other things for someone- whether that be up-close or across vast distances- to intercede for someone, to introduce someone to Jesus, to cast out demons from someone, etc etc. Of course, an atheistic worldview would rule these out from the start- at least when only hearing about them, as opposed to experiencing them- but even then, like the lepers and others who walked away, there's still a choice to be made. But surely one of the key points is that it is the supernatural relationship with Christ and the life that flows out of that which distinguishes a Christian from a non-Christian.
Correction - it is the delusion of a "supernatural relationship with Christ and the life that flows out of that which distinguishes a Christian from a non-Christian".
That religion is man made and some choose to follow man, while others choose to follow the one true God. Indeed, religion is man made, because God became like us and dwelt amongst us to lead us to the Father, not belittling our humanity but raising it up to a high esteem so as to be worthy of praise and honor. Yet we choose to follow man rather than God, who gave us back our dignity.
We already have had dignity, and have always had the capacity for dignity. Ironically, God's chosen people were far, far more indignate and barbaric than our present civilisation. The notion that we have rejected the offer of our retribution or dignity is false. If you want to put it that way, God has already given us our entire mental faculty that suffices for an upright society. Now we are simply trying to create it.
“Religion is man made” Is that absolutely “true” with a capital T or was it just “MAN MADE”? I’ll wait!! By the way, you just totally and utterly refuted your self!!
@@questioneverything2845 “Do you believe” Was that a “rational” question or were you just “determined” to be easily triggered by what other people believe? I’ll wait!! Moreover, was that your “superior man made” totally arbitrary, totally subjective opinion talking or was it just the by product of the blind, mindless, ultimately meaningless, accidental arrangement of random atoms and brain chemicals creating the illusion of stable patterns and regularities? I’ll wait no problem!! This should be good.
Hitchens arguments are just horribly bad.. i doubt he's read the Bible for himself, i perceive he's just ranting based on other people's misconceptions.
Bible should not be only read (one, two or three times and that´s it) - it should be study over and over, and over. Any fool can read (know), but the point is to understand.
@@TurinTuramber hi. As you say "he's probably read more book.... " And that may be so. But most of his assertions about the bible is completely false, for one he said we were 'created' with sickness and diseases, that's absolutely false! He, as well as many other atheists simply do not read the Bible.
@@Loading....99.99 You don't believe people are born already with sin? I thought that was Christian doctrine. Pretty sure that what he meant, do you have a link.
I don't know if Lennox accidentally or intentionally misunderstood Hitchens at 19:45 but it seems that Hitchens was asking for moral behavior of humans that's allowed by religion that Hitchens as an atheist couldn't do. The example that Lennox gives here is an obvious non sequitur. I think both Lennox and Hitchens did some mistakes in their arguments in this debate.
@@feignit I think the general argument is that you "need religion" because you supposedly cannot have good moral values otherwise. If that were true, it would be very important who or what decides the moral behavior.
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Here’s the full quote for anyone who wants it:
"I agree very much with Christopher Hitchens. It is repudiation of many of the evils that he claims have been done in the name of God. But I've learned to distinguish between the greatness of God and the inexcusable evil that has been done by those professing His name. And so, I do not deduce that ‘God is not great and that religion poisons everything.’ After all, if I fail to distinguish between the genius of Einstein and the abuse of his science to create weapons of mass destruction, I might be tempted to say ‘Science is not great and technology poisons everything.’ What is more, as I look back at the evils of atheist regimes of the 20th century, I might also be tempted, ladies and gentlemen, to say ‘Atheism is not great, it has poisoned everything.’ As it is, I hold that science shows some of the greatness of God... The idea that God and science are mutually exclusive explanations of the universe is as wrong as saying that internal combustion and Henry Ford are mutually exclusive explanations of the automobile. They are complementary explanations. One explains how it works, the other why it exists... Telescopes can show us the wonder of the night sky, but science didn't put the stars there, nor did the laws of biology and physics, ladies and gentlemen. They describe what is there, they don't put it there... Yes, it does need a Creator. Alan Sandage, widely regarded as one of the fathers of modern astronomy, who discovered quasars, said, 'I find it quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be some organizing principle. God, to me, is a mystery, but is the explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something rather than nothing.'"
God does not answer the question why there is something rather than nothing because God is a something with all the complexity of intelligence and personhood. Intelligence requires that there is a world to model and form syllogisms.
@@kos-mos1127 Did you even watch the video? You don’t have to watch the entire debate, but did you even sit through it and absorb it at all? If you did, then you must surely understand that from a theistic point of view your statement means utterly nothing. And if you didn’t, well, inanity shouldn’t beget you. And if you can’t suss out the meaning of the previous two sentences from this one, then God help you.
@@joshua2707how nice of god to make his existence confusing to many people
@user-qg1kb8ih3g It's called free will kiddo. Revealing himself in his heavenly form would eliminate our free will. We all have purposes to fulfil and the odds of people that are meant to do great things in (say medicine) would most likely abandon that to just serve God in the way they feel truly glorifies him. Would you rather be a robot or someone who has their own autonomy?
More like PSEUDO-INTELLECTUAL BS. You're trying to rationalize your bigotry with a bunch of PSEUDO-INTELLECTUAL nonsense. You want to be thought of as having a lot of intelligence and knowledge, but you're not really intelligent or knowledgeable. Deep down, you know this and desperately need to feel better about yourself, hence you're bigotry.
the missed opportunity: just as Christopher Hitchens would not want to be a tyrannical overseer in his children's' lives, he also would not ever force them to love him, or be so overbearing that they lose their capacity for free will. He would want to be loved by them on account of their choice.
He also would not judge his children’s actions and send through them into a dark pit if they dis obeyed.
"Do as thou wilt" is true love.
Your decision to play in traffic is wholeheartedly supported.
@@kos-mos1127 Nor does God. People choose to reject and hate him, and thus their existence after this world will be miserable, because God will be ever present. What will be heaven for the faithful will be hell for those who despise God.
@@kos-mos1127@Are you suggesting that judging someone's actions is always a terrible thing? What exactly do you think about judging someone's actions?
As far as sending them to H311, that's a common framing that's used as if to suggest that the individual didn't choose it for themself. It takes responsibility off of the individual.
Now we can also play around a bit with that framing. Let's take the closest example here on Earth. Do we not have prisons for people who commit crimes? Do we not rightfully sentence some individuals to life in prison? Is it not best that certain individuals should remain in prison?
And while we're at it, do we not also occasionally get individuals that willingly and rightly choose to confess and go to prison? Are there not individuals that choose to stay in prison for the crimes they've committed?
@@kos-mos1127Also, if you're reading this, please do your best to not trigger the YT tyrants' shadow algo if you expect a response to any of your replies to me from me.
This is simply a heads up for if you expect or want a reply from me. If you don't care, then just type whatever it is and let the shadow algo do its thing.
“genital mutilation is entirely faith based” - that didn’t age well
Ya the atheist left celebrates that now
My thoughts exactly.
@@philipmitchener28 timestamp?
@@freshbakedclips4659 9:19
Yeah now it's anatomical mutilation..
My worldly stepson recently made the bold claim that all Christians reject science. I asked him to define "science"; he could not. I asked him to look it up; he read that science is a collection of observations. I asked how observing our universe meant that there was no creator; he had no answer. I asked him to give a basic breakdown of the "scientific method"; he could not. (This is a kid who's currently in high school with a B in physics.)
I then gave a hypothetical scenario: Let's say that I wanted to discover how the grass in our yard obtained its energy to grow. I'd make a plan for various tests, sorting out all the variables that needed controlled, setting up multiple samples for experiments. But before I even began, I'd decide that I would NOT accept that the sun had anything to do with it. I'd reject that possibility outright, because I thought it sounded absurd. Then I would begin the testing, looking for anything but sunlight as a possible explanation. Does that sound scientific?
He said no, of course not. I explained that that's what he was doing to God; he'd already decided that God didn't exist, and that he ws 100% infallible on that supposed fact. He was rejecting a possible outcome before learning anything. He was the one rejecting science, not us. I suspect that is the case with many atheists whose god is simply themselves. I myself didn't accept Christ until I dug into the history of scripture, and saw the mountain of evidence that says yes, Jesus is exactly who He claims to be.
All Atheists, Evolutionists, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions in the world
DON'T KNOW and just can't understand
that
Jesus Christ and his Followers are not Atheists, Evolutionists, or fanatics of any Christian and non-Christian Religion in the world
but
Worshippers of the Creator of the heavens and the earth and all that are in and on it.
All the arrogant, cruel, and merciless Atheists, Evolutionists, Christians, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions in the world
DON'T KNOW and just can't understand
that
their Satanic arrogance and foolishness in raising, glorifying, and exalting themselves as better, greater, powerful, glorious, higher and superior than the Creator and his Christ
will
definitely result in nothing but their own dishonor, disgrace, downfall and ETERNAL DEATHS, just worthless and useless dusts on earth forever
while
the SUBMISSIVENESS and OBEDIENCE of lowly, ordinary, kind, and respectful persons on earth to the authority and teachings of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead"
as written in Matthew 28: 18, Luke 4: 43, and John 11: 25, 26
will
definitely bring them honor and the loving, kind, and merciful Creator's favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4.
All Atheists, Evolutionists, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions in the world
DON'T KNOW and just can't understand
that they will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth forever after their deaths just like the animals as written in Ecclesiastes 3: 19, 20 ; 9: 5, 6
while
the Creator's loving, kind, and respectful worshippers who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Daniel, Jesus Christ's followers, and many others will not remain as worthless and useless dusts on earth forever,
instead,
in the right and proper time,
the Creator will let Jesus Christ RESURRECT them back to life so they can all happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD"
and fully enjoy the eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings of the Creator and his Christ for eternity
under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
Amen and God bless you my brother!
I pray God opened your stepson’s eyes.
Great answer. Even though Ravi Zacharias let us down ultimately it does not mean his answers were wrong. Ravi, in one of his books, discusses this very thing. He was at a get together of mostly academia I believe. His answer was to ask a question back to his questioner. I will paraphrase his answer. " Since you do not believe in God but science how does science say the universe was created? The answer given was The Big Bang. Next and what was The Big Bang? How it did it happen? Answer the point of singularity. And what is the point of singularity but the point where all the rules and theories of science no longer exist, correct ? Therefore, science isn't even based on science. " Uh that ended that discussion very quickly.
Excellent analogy, but in anticipation of the expected atheist rebuttal, humans can see the sun whereas we can't see God. You're comparing a physical objects and measurable photons with an immaterial and immeasurable God.
@@RS54321 I see what you’re saying but I would respond with this: This rebuttal skirts the issue and is beside the point. The analogy points out that it is unscientific to rule out conclusions before any experiments have been done and any evidence has been collected-- which is exactly what the naturalist is doing when he says, “If I can’t measure it and observe it, it does not exist.”
"...the genital mutilation community is entirely faith based..."
"Gender Affirming Care" enters the chat...
I was about to comment this 😂😂😂😂
He would be in big trouble today
Except that's not what "mutilation" is contextually referred to. The important part here is the harm being caused to the person/being and/or their agency and consent. When someone suffers from diabetes and must have a limb amputated in order to survive, we may call it unfortunate, but hardly a harmful procedure when considering the outcome of inaction.
Even in the example of male circumcision there are common cases for its implementation, such as treating someone suffering from Phimosis.
I'm not a Trans person but it doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to see the presently-limited forms of Gender Affirming Care procedures in a favorable light when weighed against the potential of a lifetime filled with suffering and suicidality.
How about neither one? How about we stay away from kids' genitals completely.
@@mwjgcreeves4984if you want to talk about consent, then it still applies. A child cannot give consent to such a subjective topic, especially when encouraged by people who should be protecting said child's best interests. Mutilation as a description seems rather fitting using your logic.
Genital mutilation is something that is done by other people towards you because of the beliefs of other people. If you choose to do sex change operation, it's your own decision. Massive difference.
And I would argue that you cannot change sex, only visual appearance of yourself. Your sex is defined by your chromosomes (XY or XX) and we don't have any technology to change your sex on chromosome level.
Hitchens doesn't grossly misrepresent Christianity because he misunderstands. He does it knowingly and dishonestly to perpetuate the non-Christian public's misunderstanding and a caricature that is much easier for him to ridicule and argue against (i.e., a straw man).
And just how so does he do that? Can you give an example?
@@reality1958 He misrepresents Christian beliefs, as pointed out in the video. Did you even watch it? Did you pay any attention to Lennox's corrections of Hitchens' misrepresentations? I don't believe for one second that someone as intelligent Hitchens was, someone who spent countless hours preparing for and participating in numerous debates like this with Christians, never once stumbled upon accurate Christian doctrines. No, he chose to misrepresent our beliefs despite being corrected repeatedly by many people and by his own research.
@@rickh9396Hitchens paints an accurate version of Christianity. When Christians are in power they justify all kinds of evil acts.
@@rickh9396 yes in fact I’ve watched the full debate several times. I was a Christian for 50 years and I think Hitchens is spot on. I’ve watched probably all of Hitchens debates.
Example. Lennox responds early with the notion that somehow Christian horrors are different than the message.
It is not. In fact multiple Christian atrocities are biblically based. Lennox made a big mistake here
Sorry, I disagree.
Hitch doesn't understand Christianity one bit and demonstrably so.
Peace.
"Love your enemies" cannot come from a materialistic worldview
This is a factual statement.
Amen.
Amen@@ella5319
The old testament God did not love its enemies. He destroys them
No he did but he gave the law of Moses which was a unfinished moral code FOR THE TIME and it was said that the Christ would come and finish it this is why when he died on the cross he said its finished and dropped his head@@lionzion1879
Hitchens is a great debator and I love him for that. If it weren't for Hitchen's, I wouldnt have the relationship I have with God now. Nearly his life's work, speaking against God, actually gave credence of God's existence. Mearly pointing the bad players who were under the guise of Christianity and sainthood, wasnt enough to sway me to not believe. It only emboldened me to read the word of God myself. Not to hear it from a pastor or evangelical. Hitchen's words mean to me more than any priest, pastor or other person with a microphone in their hands could ever mean. Hitchens mearly pointed out that bad people pretend to speak for God. Thank you Mr. Hitchen's. You brought me closer to God and his word. RIP
Amen!!! I love how God works!! So many are actually coming to faith through Hitchens and Dawkins! Even one of Dawkins close associates went onto Ray Comforts channel and shared his testimony. What I've learned through all this is that God seeks and saves the lost sheep. And despite human and the enemies (Satan's) attempts to dissuade and detour people from accepting him. It reminds me of the story of Baalam where he wanted to use the prophet to curse the Israelites and instead of cursing the Israelites God kept blessing them!😎
Wow such an inspiring testimony. Thank you so much for sharing.
There is never anything to be gained from rational people debating the religious, it’s like two people arguing when neither one of them understands a word of the other’s language.
If you really understand Hitchens, you should have been an atheist and not believing in God without any evidence of his existence. Lennox is flat out strawmanning Hitchens here. No shred of critical thinking in your response whatsoever. Sad.
@@JazzyArtKL what evidence would you need in order to believe that God exists?
Hitchens, “Name one thing that is good and moral that an atheist can not do.” Me, “Love God.”
So you are claiming something here that cannot be demonstrated to be real. I do believe Hitchens, when he asked that question, was referring to moral behavior that we do on earth. In real life. And there’s nothing a Christian could do that an atheist couldn’t
If that's the best you can come up with I think you just proved his point lol
Which god?
@@reality1958I would say the one good thing that an atheist cannot do that a Christian can, is to do good out of a right motive that is not self-focused. The good things that an atheist does are always about him or herself and proving how good and worthy they are. Only believers can do good out of love for God.
That was pathetic, all atheist are self absorbed. You are full of yourself.
I have to give credit to Mike Winger for the answer to this question. It's such a no-brainer. The most moral thing a person can do that only a Christian can do, but no other people can do is love God. Loving God is the most morally upright thing a person can do.
AMEN
Morality, which is defined by we humans, is behavior that exhibits kindness to others. To me that is the highest morality.
If following a god achieves and focuses on that goal then fine
Christian’s did not do anything that atheist cannot do. Jesus was turned into a legendary figure so he cannot be used as an argument.
Still need to show evidence for your god
Its the greatest commandment, is it not?
I am a Deist, and I lately discovered and subscribed to your channel. I enjoy your thought provoking content. Thx.
The Lord is near to ALL who call upon Him in truth. I found a Rescued not Arrested Bible in county jail. Changed my life. My family is healed and by His Grace my life is restored. Be safe and well.
Deism: a deadbeat dad God who creates everything and just leaves.
It is simply not a tenable position.
Love how he takes issue with God "surveiling every thought and moment" when Godless government is right now aiming to do not only the same, but control everything we do and think as well. God knows all, but He doesn't stop us from making incorrect choices. God doesn't take our freedom, but godless government is 100% shackles.
Exactly!
"You vill own nothing unt be happy." Now eat your bugs!
Also what does he want God to do, close His eyes? 😂
So what are your views on your mythical gods wonderful natural creations such as tsunamis, earthquakes, hurricanes etc which have been wiping out millions of innocent people, babies and all since humans walked the earth. Not forgetting the great flood he created which basically wiped out the human race. Actually, that's a lie, there was no great flood but if you still believe that then why do you worship a narcissistic psychotic mass murderer !!
Very good! I always felt bad for Hitchens, it seemed like so much anger, and pain. I think Frank Tarek was right when he summed up Hitchens, he said, "there is no god, and I hate him."
Frank always seemed angry and disappointed with life while Hitchens was content and at peace.
@@kos-mos1127 😄 funny.
@@kos-mos1127 🧌
Hitchens did these debates because he felt that religion is a potential threat to goodness…and he has a point
@reality1958 yes, and he was not totally wrong, but he didn't do his homework well. For one he lump all religion as one. Second he talks of goodness, without a God, there is no such thing as good, evil, right, wrong.
I want more John Lennox, Clearly one of our living greats! I hope everyone that sees the video, the whole discussion and/or reads the pinned comment gets the point that Atheism offers nothing and ruins what we know to have.
Christianity offer nothing but empty promises.
Lennox makes it easy to justify my atheism, i feel my IQ drop everytime Lennox speaks.
lennox is a moron. you can put that one in the bank
@@LuciferAlmighty I pray you continue to watch these types of videos! God Bless you my friend.
@@LuciferAlmighty An atheist that loves Satan...quite the paradox you're going for there.
I'm always impressed with John Lennox
I don't know why, but Hitchens seems to ask things in such a way that I find difficult to respond to but Lennox does it with ease
Hitchens uses flowery language to convince you to accept his underlying premises; it takes practice to ignore the fluff and focus on the crux of the message being delivered.
@@alisterrebelo9013 he is essentially my literary antithesis. I try to make things as short, simple, and direct as possible. He's far more refined
But did Lennox? Because Lennox responded with a narrative that seemed to seperate the horrors of Christianity from the message of the bible…when actually numerous Christian horrors were biblically based
@@reality1958 perhaps you should listen to his response again
Hitchens was quite good at masking the straw man and petitio principii fallacies. He was very good at arguing for the emotions of the observers, rather than addressing his interlocutor in good faith.
His rebuttal was inspired by the Holy Spirit. You can tell. So simple, humble, but so powerful.
You're exactly right. He knows God personally in that he knows his character. Oftentimes we hear people paint a picture of God based on misunderstandings and faulty human reasoning. This rebuttal definitely makes sense to the mind of Christ!!
Glad you think so…..
🙏🏼🙌🏼
Really then the “holy spirit “ is lacking
The holy spirit has came into me many times.
The only thing I want anymore is for the holy spirit to keep coming into me everyday and every single moment because it feels so good when the holy spirit comes inside me.
It just gets better when he calls me a naughty boy and that just gets me going.
1st time here. Professional gig brother, thank you for this. Stay the course, lead the way. I love you..don't stop.
Thank you for this daily dose!
I didnt expect to be listening and want to stop every other argument and correct the very crux of it. I know i ought not to be surprised the worldly don't understand, but it still throws me for a loop when i hear their arguments.
You and me both
Truly amazing and respectful to one another. And the ending sent chills down my spine! God is everything
As the Bible assures us.
Colossians 1:16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Colossians 1:17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
Are Atheists and Christians worshippers of the Creator?
ANSWER -
No,
Atheists and Christians KNOW
that they hate the Creator and want their families and neighbors and the whole world to hate him too and believe their LIE and false claim that the Creator is unworthy and undeserving to be honored and respected as the True and Sovereign GOD.
Are the lives, dignities, and existence on earth of human beings important and valuable to the Creator?
ANSWER -
Yes,
The Creator KNOWS
that Atheists, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions are mocking and insulting him as worthless and useless
but
he knows too that
all lowly, ordinary, kind, and respectful persons on earth who willingly submit to the authority of his Christ and put their faith and hope in his teachings about the "Kingdom of GOD" and "Resurrection of the Dead"
as written in Matthew 28: 18, Luke 4: 43, and John 11: 25, 26
are
his Worshippers and Followers of his Christ on earth
who
can be trusted with anything and are worthy and deserving of his favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4.
The Creator KNOWS
that all human beings will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth after their deaths just like the animals as written in Ecclesiastes 3: 19, 20 ; 9: 5, 6
but
he knows too that he will not let his loving, kind, and respectful worshippers who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Daniel, Jesus Christ's followers, and many others to remain as worthless and useless dusts on earth forever,
instead,
in the right and proper time,
he will let Jesus Christ RESURRECT them back to life so they can all happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD" or His Kingdom
and fully enjoy his and his Christ's eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings for eternity
under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
Assertions from ancient near eastern man is not evidence. God did not create anything. A fictional entity does not have the power to create.
@@kos-mos1127its not very hard at that level..😂
@kos-mos1127 atheists put blind faith in the belief that a non-programmed-by-a-Mind, unguided-by-a-Mind accident can be "trusted" to give them "truth." I don't have enough blind faith to be an atheist!
@@kos-mos1127 And your assertions are nothing also! LOL such irony.
Here's one thing I want to point out. If God is all-knowing and omnipotent, how is He arrogant? Arrogance would have to suggest that someone is overstepping their own boundaries. Thinking they're better than they are.
I think the next time someone suggests God is arrogant or anything similar, the person should immediately stop them right there and ask for clarification.
Given the number of mistakes god has made its pretty accurate to say he is accurate
@@francisa4636 What exactly are those mistakes? How did you come to the conclusion that they're mistakes?
@JiraiyaSama86 Where does one begin lol ... how about letting things getting so out of hand that he had to commit genocide or having a bible that contradicts itself in many places that's used to arrive at opposite moral positions or forgetting to smite Abraham for having an incestuous relationship with his half sister. The list goes on and on.
These are charitably called mistakes the only other option is that God is evil
@@francisa4636you're attempting to use the gift of free will against God? You'd prefer tyrannical automation over free will and having the grace of a creator?
@anthonyoer4778 free will doesn't exist, nor does free will negate the fact that the bible is contradictory or that genocide on God's own creation is indicative of a mistake nor any of the other mistakes in the bible. Do better
"... you must tell me of a right action.... that I could not (would not?) make myself" Hitchens. you sir,would not die for your enemy. God/YWHW is truly great.
There is something ugly about atheistic arrogance - and religious arrogance for that matter.
But how beautiful is true Christian humility! ❤
What “humility” is involved in Lennox peddling pathetic lies about evolution and utter nonsense about branches of science he’s never bothered his pompous duff to actually study.
An arrogant, dishonest old buffoon
@kerstinklenovsky239 and how beautiful is true atheist humility! ❤️
@@stevendwyer3652"atheist humility" is an oxymoron 😂😂😂
@@FromValkyrie why is it?
@@stevendwyer3652 because you're the most arrogant beings that ever existed. Majority of you aren't very cerebral or intelligent. Only emotional. 🌚🌚🌚
10:38 THAT PART!!!! Gets me everytime. Excellent response.
Man, whatever “god” Hitchens is talking about is terrible…thank goodness he didn’t describe Jesus at all, not even close!
lord of the bible sounds pretty awful
Old testament God is jewish. New testament is Christian.
@@projectbirdfeederman5491
"Sounds" tells me you've not actually read the Bible yourself
@@projectbirdfeederman5491
I encourage you to read the Bible to discover for yourself if the God of the Bible is truly awful or otherwise
Actually read the Bible in context, with the understanding that just because something doesn't make sense to you does not automatically make it wrong or a contradiction
@@mccalltrader we know what god hes talking about, the same god that calls for the death of non believers and the mistreatment of women and children.
It’s heartbreaking seeing non believers not only reject the love of Jesus but also try to convince others that their beliefs are true.
Are Atheists and Christians worshippers of the Creator?
ANSWER -
No,
Atheists and Christians KNOW
that they hate the Creator and want their families and neighbors and the whole world to hate him too and believe their LIE and false claim that the Creator is unworthy and undeserving to be honored and respected as the True and Sovereign GOD.
Are the lives, dignities, and existence on earth of human beings important and valuable to the Creator?
ANSWER -
Yes,
The Creator KNOWS
that Atheists, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions are mocking and insulting him as worthless and useless
but
he knows too that
all lowly, ordinary, kind, and respectful persons on earth who willingly submit to the authority of his Christ and put their faith and hope in his teachings about the "Kingdom of GOD" and "Resurrection of the Dead"
as written in Matthew 28: 18, Luke 4: 43, and John 11: 25, 26
are
his Worshippers and Followers of his Christ on earth
who
can be trusted with anything and are worthy and deserving of his favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4.
The Creator KNOWS
that all human beings will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth after their deaths just like the animals as written in Ecclesiastes 3: 19, 20 ; 9: 5, 6
but
he knows too that he will not let his loving, kind, and respectful worshippers who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Daniel, Jesus Christ's followers, and many others to remain as worthless and useless dusts on earth forever,
instead,
in the right and proper time,
he will let Jesus Christ RESURRECT them back to life so they can all happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD" or His Kingdom
and fully enjoy his and his Christ's eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings for eternity
under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
Atheist lack belief in the supernatural. We are sharing the wisdom.
Show any evidence for your god
@@kos-mos1127 ,
There isn't a single atheist philosopher who defines atheism as "lacktheism"!
Welcome to the 21st century.
@@brianmesser12 ,
Evidence to the atheist is like dreaming of playing an air guitar, waking up, convinced you're a virtuoso.
Thanks!
WOW, thank You so much Kenneth! God bless! 🙏❤️
This man is a man of God. He is used by God and loved by God. God bless him and keep him safe in Jesus name amen!
When you argue against God through a godly person who knows His truth, you are up against the an impossible feat literally.
I know many like myself who believe in a higher power, but don't believe in the Christian representation of the Angry (worship me or burn in agony) God.
@@down-the-rabbit-hole I don't believe in such a god. The one I believe is the One who died on the Cross.
@@leoteng1640 That's fine, you are allowed to have your "opinion"
Well put ....
Having read Summa Theologiae on the subject of evil, I can tell you that the concept of evil is very nuanced. There is the concept of penalty cause of evil which is by God as the author of all creation, and evil caused by the fault committed by the person. If you do evil (fault) and the consequence is burned in hell, this is evil cause created by God and it is logical. The evil you do is not caused or created by God, it is your own free will as the perpetrator to face the consequence of your actions. Imagine if there is no "bad" consequence to evil actions, what kind of justice will there be.
Gods Mercy...
22. It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.
23. They are * new every morning * great is thy faithfulness.
lamentations 3:22
KJV
Love that scripture
I love how he is talking about Christians being arrogant and conceded while he is talking in the most patronizing manner I have witnessed in quite some time 😂
Arrogance is claiming to know the answer with 0 evidence. That falls squarely on religion.
@@borbafatt Maybe Hitchens was as religious as anybody about the tale of an universe without a god exploding with Andromeda.
@@ignaciojzam that’s not a religion or a belief. You probably thought you cooked didn’t you.
@@borbafatt The guy died believing that (probably) so yes.
@@ignaciojzam clearly you don’t know the difference between a belief and knowledge.
It always amazes me the mental gymnastics individuals go through to blame God for the choices man.
It always amazes me the mental gymnastics Christians go through to absolve god of guilt. As if he isn't responsible for evil despite the fact that he allegedly created everything. Like he didn't curse all humanity for the sin of his first children who had no concept of what sin was until they were tricked by something which did, who god also created and allowed to interact with them.
@@amaizenblue44just go and sin in peace. Leave God out of your choices. 🙄🙄🙄
@@FromValkyrie lol. OK. Satan says hello. 🙄🙄
@@amaizenblue44 So you do believe that there is God. You just don't want to acknowledge Him as your God.
@@wavemaker2077 I don't believe in any god, angel, demon, satan, ghost, leprechaun, vampire, or santa claus.
Great vid but I always find it weird watching atheist who have passed on because we as believers know that they are regretting their choices now. Obviously, I understand that they made a conscious decision to reject Christ free gift of salvation but it still bothers me. As for blinded atheists....If only living men knew what dead men know.
That’s a really good point. Learn from Hitchens mistakes people! He’s a believer now.
@@Daily_Dose_Of_Wisdom Facts
@@Daily_Dose_Of_Wisdom - *citation needed 😅
Atheist never acknowledged God even on their death bed and passed on in peace. Christians are the ones having visions of hell before the die and screaming for the laws get to pray.
@@Daily_Dose_Of_WisdomI looked it up on google and it said he didn’t covert to Christianity
John Lennox is a high ranking warrior for the Kingdom of Heaven
That is a thing?
As a high ranking warrior for the Realm of Common Sense I hereby challenge your puny god warrior! Hurrah!
"god"? What is "god"? No Christian believes in or worships "god." I Am is not "god." @@stevendwyer3652
Agree.... he's a definition of "I'm humble because I'm a savage"in a good way
The opposition would fall about laughing in Lenny is the best they have.
Just five minutes in and Christopher Hitchens mentions "what if your parents said I'll always be watching you, even after I die, always watching and judging"
Ok and?
Our parents already do that while they are alive!
My Mother absolutely judges what I do.
Is that so wrong?
She may have her opinions and we don't always agree on everything.
And we CERTAINLY did not agree when I was a teenage girl and a young adult.
But she does so lovingly, and regardless of what SHE thinks, she lets me make my own mistakes and learn from them.
You know... sort of like God...
So I wouldn't care if my Mother continued to look down on me from Heaven and every once in awhile say "why did you do that? That was dumb..."
Cause, it probably was
You're right. That was dumb.
Name one thing a Christian can do that an atheist can't do? Admit they are a sinner.
……without being proud of the fact (and often secretly sad about it)
I think he meant something sensible
@@bobwilkinson2008 sensible and Hitchens should never be in the same sentence.
Ooh can I play, too?
Become a priest and touch up little boys
Get tax breaks/relief for religious organisations
Completely disregard the burden of proof
How's that?
@@corundergroundreligion8190 LOL
The answer to Hitchens question is we can humble ourselves in reality not just in theory 😂
Meaning?
This is apt!
The hypothetical rendering of the ethical framework that binds us and the divergence it breeds has made those who give their all to the restoration of meaning in existential reality, moral and ethical structures raving lunatics…such a shame.
John Lennox is absolutely wrong about the universe being temporary.
Psalm 37:29 "The righteous will possess the earth, And they will live forever on it."
Psalm 104:5 "He has established the earth on its foundations; It will not be moved from its place forever and ever."
In Genesis when God called the earth "ruined" prior to the flood, he did not chose to destroy the earth, rather just cleanse the wicked inhabitants of it.
In 2 Peter 3:13 he describes a new "earth" but also a new "heavens". Are we to believe that this verse means there was something wrong with "heaven" and so it also must suffer a heat death? I think it's fair to say this is not talking about the total obliteration of the universe and everything in it, but a renewal or refreshing of what's on it. In context, it's referring to the political powers on the earth being removed and replaced by the reigning King Christ Jesus, but that would take more explanation to rightly explain.
Yeah but physics has shown that eventually all stars will decay, which means life won't be able to exist on Earth anymore. So, clearly that passage can't be true like you say it is.
What great apologetics. He shows kindness and gives credit to his adversary. Real Christian virtue. Excellent
I didn't see much of an argument from Lennox. His argument for God is predicated on the existence of revelation, Jesus being who he said he is, and his personal relationship with God. These aren't falsifiable and can't be a basis for a rational argument.
Jesus's claims are falsifiable. He either is God, or He is not, and the test for His claims is this, Did Jesus rise from the dead? If the answer is yes, then He is God, if no, He is not. There is plenty of evidence outside the Bible proving Jesus of Nazareth was a real man who lived during the first century as a traveling Jewish teacher. And we know he was executed via crucifixion by the Roman government. The only question left then is did he rise from the dead after his execution. I would encourage you to research the historical evidence for yourself and reach your own conclusions, (as I don't really think anyone has ever been convinced of anything by SOME GUY in the comments of a RUclips video, so listing uncited evidence/claims here and potentially getting sucked into a debate/argument would be a fruitless use of both our times).
Most of the life of a human being is not falsifiable. Rational arguments are rare and mean a lot less to humans. You are squeezing the world into a small box so you can make life a lot more simple. Reality is hard to deal with, but humans do it every day without utilizing "rational arguments".
Exceptionally well said
Yes they can but you don't investigae. Or get to know
Perhaps. I must say CH didn't do anything to support his argument. Just ranted.
As a young adult when I was examining different worldviews, I found atheism lacked a basis for purpose or morality. At best it had an expression of like/dislike or selection by survival of the fittest. The best and most honest explanations/proponents of atheism come to that conclusion. I rejected that view based on presupposition, there is real morality and purpose in the universe, humanity, and my own personal existence. I may not have had the philosophical arguments to explain it at the time, but I could see the consequences of such a worldview and its conflict with reality.
There are of course other issues and factors that favor theism, but this issue alone was enough to convince me as a young adult.
Neither atheism or theism say or do or hold any other views or stances beyond one thing-is there any gods?
Atheism is not a belief system. Of course it has no moral framework. It's like asking what is your moral framework as an a-unicornist? How does that frame your morality?
It doesn't. And neither does atheism
I see your error.
You were evaluating different worldviews based on personal expediency and utility when you should really have judged them on evidence and rationality.
You abandoned truth because deep down you just wanted a magic genie.
@@TurinTuramber Morality and purpose are not merely utilities of a worldview, they are central aspects to truth, life, and meaning.
Atheism cannot say why it is objectively wrong to torture a child. It fails a basic truth test.
@@Nathan-vt1jz Atheism isn't a social justice framework, just means there are no compelling argument for any Gods. Simple actually.
Funny to me how the people pretending to have objective morality decreed by God are the same people that will partially cut off an infant's penis and offer it up as a literal blood sacrifice. They then tell their children for years that they will burn in hellfire for eternity if they don't enter into their superstitious cult and then have the temerity to lecture atheists about their "superior" objective morality regarding torturing children.
I'm sure everyone will be saying the same thing and lennox obviously hit on it. But after the fall of man the entire point was that we could NOT , make ourselves well. We cannot fix ourselves and was why Jesus provided the grace for us
The fall of man is made up to justify the failings of their made up God.
@@kos-mos1127 why do you believe that
@@kos-mos1127So I have an honest question. So we both seem to agree that this world is in a fallen or imperfect state. Do you believe that evolution has failed because it couldn't come up with the perfect world? How does evolution overcome the problem of suffering, people harming one another and death?
@@kladies3021 I do not believe the world is fallen. I just said the fall of men was made up to justify their man made God.
@@kos-mos1127Ok, so you don't define it as fallen. So what is the evolutionist or atheists prescription for suffering, death, or people committing heinous crimes against one another? I've been trying to understand how one with an atheistic mind thinks outside of your lack of beliefs in God.
Dude, best reaction, apologetic channel. This is a duty to serve the King. Praise God, bro. Praise God.
Hitchens makes such sense. How we miss him.
“Makes such sense”
Militant atheism is a walking ball of self contradiction and cognitive dissonance!!
The irony and the absurdity is that it’s common knowledge that in the end Christopher Hitchens actually became an enthusiastic apologist for the dirty deeds of the American empire AND ACTIVELY PROMOTED AMERICAN INTERVENTION IN THE BALKANS AND MIDDLE EAST- yes? …in Christopher Hitchens own words…
“The crucial thing is to be willing and able, if not in fact eager, to kill them without pity before they get started.” (Christopher Hitchens).
Yeah makes great sense?
CRINGE ATHEISM in full effect!!
It's that last phrase that's particularly chilling.
Reference: ('The Age' 5th September 2002):
I rest my case!!
“Hitchens makes such sense.”
Listening to militant atheists pontificating about ultimate “TRUTH” and the importance of “MAKING SENSE” whilst subscribing to the belief that we are all nothing more substantive than ULTIMATELY MEANINGLESS, HOLLOW AND SOULLESS APES WHO SHARE HALF THEIR DNA WITH A POTATO IS PRICELESS!!
Moreover, listening to militant atheists unwittingly preaching about metaphysical realities such as ultimate “TRUTH” and “SENSE” whilst subscribing the belief that we are all nothing more substantive than ULTIMATELY MEANINGLESS, HOLLOW AND SOULLESS, OVERGROWN AMOEBAS WITH DELUSIONS OF GRANDEUR is just pure CRINGE .
Its as entertaining as watching someone trying to thrash the front of his car with the branch of a tree in order to BEAT IT INTO SUBMISSION!
It's very Basil Fawlty like at times and very Monty Python like at times! But without the comedy value!
CRINGE ATHEISM in full effect!!
Man, Hitchens is good at mental gymnastics. You really have to contort your brain to believe that when presented so concisely with the truth. It probably does make his hubris seem self-justified. It's funny he brings up how a Christian wouldn't know right from wrong without God...yes, that's true: atheism cannot explain why 95% of all morals are shared by everyone the world over and cannot justify any moral at all beyond "popular agreement" or such. He mentions evil, but how can there be evil with an atheistic view?
The right and good statement, or more accurately profession, that all true believers and followers can make that Mr Hitchens can't is "Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior" and "I can do nothing truly good and beautiful apart from Him in my life"!
In Christ,
Andrew
The Creator KNOWS
that he authorized and sent Jesus Christ from heaven to earth thousands of years ago to preach and teach the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" to imperfect, suffering, and dying human beings.
Jesus Christ KNOWS
that thousands of years ago, he
revealed that the Creator is the True and Sovereign GOD
and
exposed Satan the Devil as the Father of Lies and Murderer of Human beings
ATHEISTS and EVOLUTIONISTS WILL NOT LIVE and LAST on EARTH FOREVER
Jesus Christ KNOWS
that all Atheists and Evolutionists
who let themselves be tricked and deceived by Satan the Devil to reject his authority and teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" as worthless and useless
and
fill the world instead with the LIE and false claim that the Creator doesn't exist and even if existing is still unworthy and undeserving to be honored and respected as the True and Sovereign God
will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth forever after their deaths... lied to, deceived, and murdered by Satan the Devil.
FANATICS of ALL RELIGIONS WILL NOT LIVE and LAST on EARTH FOREVER
Jesus Christ KNOWS
that all Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions in the world
who let themselves be tricked and deceived by Satan the Devil to reject his authority and teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" as worthless and useless
and
fill the world instead with their own LIES and false teachings about "Trinity", "heaven and hellfire", "Armageddon", "rapture", and "reincarnation"
will never be glorified in their make-believe and fairy tale Heaven nor tortured for eternity in their invented and fictitious Hell but just become worthless and useless dusts on earth forever after their deaths.... lied to, deceived, and murdered by Satan the Devil.
WORSHIPPERS of the CREATOR WILL LIVE and EXIST on EARTH FOREVER
The Creator KNOWS
that
all lowly, ordinary, kind, and respectful persons on earth who willingly submit to the authority of his Christ and put their faith and hope in his teachings about the "Kingdom of GOD" and "Resurrection of the Dead"
as written in Matthew 28: 18, Luke 4: 43, and John 11: 25, 26
are
his Worshippers and Followers of his Christ on earth
who
can be trusted with anything and are worthy and deserving of his favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4.
The Creator KNOWS
that all human beings will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth after their deaths just like the animals as written in Ecclesiastes 3: 19, 20 ; 9: 5, 6
but
he knows too that he will not let his loving, kind, and respectful worshippers who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Job, Naomi, Ruth, King David, Daniel, Jesus Christ's followers, and many others to remain as worthless and useless dusts on earth forever,
instead,
in the right and proper time,
he will let Jesus Christ RESURRECT them back to life so they can all happily and abundantly live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD" or His Kingdom
and fully enjoy his and his Christ's eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings for eternity
under the loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection of Jesus Christ as his Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
5:11 it's pretty clear that we are to go do good work for 6 days in the week and then come together on the 7th day. So that doesn't make sense, God doesn't get in our way he lets us go and then we come to him on the Sabbath for Spiritual and Physical refreshment.
I pray he accepted God's mercy at his judgement.
I hope he was saved.
He'd have to accept God _before_ judgment - there aren't any second chances after death, but we have many until we take our final breath (or the mark, whichever happens first).
Did he die?
@@angiew2324 He did die
@@angiew2324Not true, even after death Jesus' unfathomable mercy beckons the soul to enter paradise. And if it refuses, it sentences itself to hell. Read the Diary of Saint Faustina.
@@angiew2324according to hundreds of NDEs that is false. Jesus has pulled many from Hell when they truly asked for him. Many NDEers attest to this. There is a difference between eternity and forever. We think within the context of time. Outside of time one moment feels like centuries and a moment at the same time. When one goes to Hell it is for eternity but eternity is not forever. You can be in Hell for just a moment and that would feel like an eternity because there is no time. At least, this is the explaination I have gleaned through listening to hundreds of NDEs. The key to understanding that is one woman who died and spoke to her guardian angel and thr angel told her "I have known you for eternities." In the plural. Wrap your head around that. Howard Storm is a great Hell testimony where Jesus saved him.
Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool.
“Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool.”
Oh the irony!! Remember the good old days when thoughtful atheists, that is when “thoughtful” moral subjectivist’s and “thoughtful” epistemological nihilists used to give intelligent and powerful arguments [for] a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism???
NEITHER DO I!!
Or even better!! Remember the good old days when thoughtful atheists, that is when “thoughtful” moral subjectivist’s and “thoughtful” epistemological nihilists used to give intelligent and powerful arguments [against] the fundamental nature of [MIND/CONSCIOUSNESS/THE ACTUAL/THE ONE/MONOTHEISM]???
NEITHER DO I!!
Interesting fact, “NEW ATHEISM” that is moral subjectivism and epistemological nihilism is exactly like the old atheism if the old atheism was bitten by two infected bats called Darth Dawkins and Darth profoundly pointless and got a over Zealous strain of RABIES!!
I bet it sounded epic in your head, dimwit
Mark Twain
@@James-wv3hxcongrats, you can quote literature. Care to share an original thought of your own to defend your atheism?
@@COMPNOR Former Episcopalian Priest Alan Watts explains that Preachers are dangerous and that everybody and EVERYTHING IS God in his lectures - On Being God. And - What is Reality?
Lennox "The God that I know...."
Lennox, like all theists, does not know God as he's never met, seen nor conversed with him in a 2 way interaction to actually know him. He goes by the stories that anonymous gospel writers have written about a person that claims he knew god.
For Lennox to 'know' God then proceed to extrapolate a meaning from his view of him clearly shows an ambiguous, vague and non straightforward deity that requires clarification.
It seems that the conclusion is that Lennox requires to explain his god. In that case if god can't speak for himself and requires shills to that that for him then he's not that good a deity.
Oh trust me, God has always proved Himself!
@Yuuuuu6 Well if your god has proved himself then you'd have no problem providing evidence.....
There is plenty of evidence. If I recommend an article to you, would you approach it open-mindedly in hopes for an answer? Because that's the thing about a lot of people who demand "evidence," they believe in the certainty of their ideologies and leave no room for anything contrary
@@Yuuuuu6 You've provided no evidence unsurprisingly. What article provides this evidence?
@MrBsteers
Also, God speaks to us by His audible voice, visions, etc, but He primarily leads/reveals Himself to the believer via His word (the Bible) and the inward witness of the Holy Spirit so yes, John Lennox, just like any true believer of the Gospel, does know God. Or at least we are on the lifelong journey of knowing Him for the magnificence that He is
Thank you for another great video!
This is amazing God bless you all. Jesus is King!!!
Everything that began will end
And then began again.
LOL
@@kos-mos1127How so?
Job 38:1, " Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said: “Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Dress for action like a man; I will question you, and you make it known to me. “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements-surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?".
Thank God for Jesus❤
I used to really like and follow Christopher Hitchens in my teens, he was a large reason for my atheism (possibly agnostic). Now as an adult, and with more knowledge (and hopefully wisdom), I see that I was enticed by the poetic delivery and clever language used by Hitchens but not the underlying logic of the arguments (which are not as well informed as I first thought). I actually think the current science leans in favour of Gods existence and the teaching of Jesus. Living a life of faith (now Catholic in my case) has been extremely rewarding and has brought extraordinary revelation in my life.
Lennox has never ever given any evidence for his God, yet has the audicity to strawman Hitchens.
“audacity to strawman Hitchens”
SMOKESCREEN!! Militant atheism is a walking ball of self contradiction and cognitive dissonance!!
Sorry but “STRAWMAN”
according to who? or what absolute, universal, objective standard of measure exactly?
Professor John Lennox
”STRAW-MANNED” Christopher Hitchens according to the standard of an overgrown amoeba with illusions of grandeur? Or “STRAW-MANNED” according to the standard of an ULTIMATELY MEANINGLESS, HOLLOW AND SOULLESS APE WHO SHARES HALF THEIR DNA WITH A POTATO?
Your world view, your absurdity, your ultimately meaningless, hollow and soulless ape, your potato, your existential crisis and your epistemological crisis not the theists!!
"Evil is the absence of God in Man's hearts." - Albert Einstein
Source?
Einstein rejected the idea of the biblical god.
@@markh1011He was wrong. He was wrong about many things. Your point? 😂
@@bassmanjr100 The point... is that the original post is trying to use Einstein as some sort of authority but the quote does not represent his actual position.
I'm surprised I needed to explain that. 😂
@@markh1011😂
Reminds me a a book I want to read called, “Is God a moral monster? Making sense of the Old Testament.” People will point to examples of genocide in the Bible and question why God would do that without understanding God or the Bible. Also, I completely agree with anything John Lennox says because he’s right.
No he’s not. The ultimate arrogance of religion is believing that you are 100% correct with zero evidence to back it up. At least science will acknowledge that they don’t know everything and never will.
@@borbafatt luckily, every Christian that I know isn't plagued by this arrogance you're describing. There are sure to be others, too, but at the very least every Christian does have evidence. I'll agree with you about the wiccans and the Hindus, though.
@@461weavile of course you agree about other religions because you’re just as blind as everyone that you were claiming you’re not. Your religion is no less a fraud than any of other others. Not a single Christian walking this earth has any evidence because there isn’t any evidence.
Love it. These videos always further reinforce my views on rejecting religion. Almost as much as listening to Hitchens, Carlin and reading the bible itself.
Any particular reason stemming from this video?
“Further reinforce my views on rejecting religion”
SMOKESCREEN!! How about supporting your statement with actual arguments instead of employing the logical fallacy of argumentation through assertion - yes?
Sorry but the fact is that under a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism your very ironic “REINFORCEMENT” argument has no more “TRUTH” value than leaves blowing in the wind - right?
The ENORMOUS ELEPHANT in the room is that under a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism “YOU”, the leaves and your very ironic appeal to your own authority fallacy are destined for the same place buddy [THE FERTILISER PIT/THE ROTTING SH…T PILE/THE GRAVE/THE VOID/OBLIVION]! Prove me “WRONG”? I’ll wait!!
*
@georgedoyle2487 thank you for responding. First, arent logical fallacies errors pointed out during an argument? I was making more of a declarative statement than arguing with someone. Suppose it was a fallacy, you still did not disprove and could not have disproven my statement, as I did not provide details of what reinforced my beliefs, so I have no clue ehat you are getting at. Unless, you are emotionally connected to my statement and your ego needed to comment. Besides your "leaves blowing in the wind" comparrison is suppose to explain what exactly? You also repeated yourself, so not sure what that purpose was for, as it was just empty space. How am I appealing to my own authority by listening to these videos, finding errors that reinforce my own beliefs? Are people not allowed to question and challenge their own beliefs and think for oneself? Well, in religion, that appears to be the case, so I see where you are coming from. You want me to prove you wrong that I am not going to what you claim is hell? I hope I misunderstood, since that would be a very moronic question/challenge. Feel free to ellaborate, without the repetition, if possible. Thanks.
@@valdezfam
“I have no clue what you are getting at”
SMOKESCREEN!! Listening to militant atheists unwittingly pontificating about metaphysical realities such as ultimate “TRUTH” and “VALUE” and preaching about the dangers of being too “EMOTIONALLY CONNECTED” whilst desperately trying to ram it down everyone’s throats that we are all nothing more substantive than ULTIMATELY MEANINGLESS, HOLLOW AND SOULLESS APES WHO SHARE HALF THEIR DNA WITH A POTATO IS PRICELESS!!
Superb! Thank you for the vid. Praise the Lord!
Hitchens was a very good entertainer and orator. It says a lot, that his speeches are still being critiqued years after his death.
Notice how no one or not many critiques Martin Luther King Jnr. speeches. Two of the reasons are because MLK Jnr. spoke truth with love and did not mischaracterize his opponents, which is quite unlike Mr. Hitchens caricature/strawman of God as the 1984 Big Brother.
@@alisterrebelo9013 I agree with the straw man point. A lot of his arguments are superficial and emotive, rather than having great substance.
@@ben0298Hitchens was a well spoken atheist for sure
He was an entertainer, but also a moron.
@@reality1958
“a well spoken atheist for sure”
I’m British myself so we are not so easily impressed by how “WELL SPOKEN” someone is. Particularly someone like Hitchens who clearly used half truths, speculation and poor research to demonise his political opponents!
Moreover, the fact is that militant atheism, that is fatalism and epistemological nihilism is a CULT MOVEMENT hidden behind the cloak of “rationality” and scientism and materialism of the gaps fallacies, that constantly uses anti religious Soviet hate propaganda left over from the Cold War.
That is history revisionism and dishonest memes and buzz words to mock, badger and demonise anyone who challenges its secular myths and metaphysical presuppositions. Militant atheism is no different to debating a recruiter from the church of Scientology who just won’t leave you alone!!
Furthermore, the fact is that demonising religious expression, that is demonising your political opponents by pretending that they are all massive “PROBLEM” who “poison” and prey upon humanity, is an ancient propaganda tool that’s been used by everyone from medieval dictators, to serial killers to the Soviet Unions propaganda machine.
“Death is the solution to all problems, no man no problem.” - [Joseph Stalin].
Hitchens was a wonderful rhetorician in general, but he was a shallow thinker when it comes to the big questions of life.
Lennox doesn't have Hitchens's rhetorical flourish and way with words, though Lennox is far more eloquent than most people including me, but Lennox is by far the more profound thinker compared to Hitchens.
Lennox presents bad arguments with extreme confidence and a charming accent.
@@markh1011 1. It's true Lennox isn't as deep a thinker as, say, someone like Alvin Plantinga, nor does he offer as good arguments as Plantinga, but Lennox is significantly more profound and offers better arguments than Hitchens on the topics of their debate.
2. Honestly I think what you said better characterizes Hitchens than Lennox, if we only limit our comparisons to these two men.
@@philtheoI’m reading “profound” as “delusional”.
@@damienschwass9354 You can do whatever you like, of course, including redefining words to mean something they don't actually mean. But I can't reason with the unreasonable, and so I'm afraid I'll have to leave you to your fantastical imaginary world. 🙃
@@philtheo no, I can accept the meaning of profound you might provide but see what you are giving as an example of it (Lennox’s points) as an example of delusion, instead.
I am NOT an atheist but I miss the great man Christopher Hitchens.. he was one of the greatest minds of this generation and I learnt so much from him ..and this Lenox guy certainly couldn’t beat Hitchens in any debate
The word of God reveals to mankind that tolerance isn't love, but that chastisement is love.
"Is" is wrong, rather, both of those are forms of love in different circumstances.
@@spaghettiking653
I think you're right or very close to being right!
Poor Hitchens. So in love with his own voice, brain and opinions that he had no clue. But we must allow him his eternal straw-man god, since he simply could not move beyond it or, ironically, do without it.
He was an award winning journalist long before he was doing this. He did his debates as a hobby. He didn’t need this.
John Lennox was so eloquent and powerful in his rebuttal. These questions are hard to answer and he did a magnificent job.
Exactly. And he doesn't try to hide behind clever language or put his opponent down. He's an absolutely class man.
5:48 I think you're missing the point Hitchens was trying to make here. I consider his point being that *if* you accept that there's supernatural personal god, then the argument follows that he was saying. His point was that there's zero evidence for the god existing at all so that argument doesn't follow.
Hitchens fought so hard unknowingly resulting to denying his personal salvation. It's so ironically depressing.
Salvation from what?
I believe what they're saying is that Hitchens fought every step of the way to deny the existing God and any need for a personal savior but like Shakespeare's quote, "Me thinks he doth protest too much." After all, if God doesn't exist, why so angry at him?
@@bensonbrett30 from oblivion
I’ve seen Oblivion it’s wild (cool too )@@santiagoz.s.1024
@@santiagoz.s.1024 What is oblivion?
That last line was the my Holy of mic drops. DANG that was good!
It seems that Hitchens' 'hatred' for god stems from the actions of a specific faith that calls him allah.
Just saying.
The Christian God, in the form of Jesus, never suggested those types of actions.
Atheists seem to group all religions together for some reason
His ire was for anything representing gods or God. I think there was some form of trauma in his life as child related to Christianity. My dad and aunt had a pretty traumatic time for a couple years in precocial school, but I think often happened with strong willed kids. The biggest issue for a decent number of atheists and God deniers usually stems from bad representatives. I'm not trying to condemn any of them since we all fall short, some of them do a better job at alienating some and nurturing others.
Unfortunately, people often blame God because they have bad encounters with "good" Christians who are in fact not good Christians and who are sinners but because the child is never exposed to actual good Christians who teach them this their perceptions of Christians is based on falsehoods and they develop an extreme prejudicial bias.
Hatred of the behaviour of those that believe in a deity and the concept itself. Accuracy is important
Atheist ignore the growing occult & satanism & the evil deeds done in such groups!!
Matthew 22:35-38 NKJV
[35] Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, [36] “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the law?” [37] Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ [38] This is the first and greatest commandment.
Nice debate but Dr. Lenox didn't answer why people are born sick.
No one knows why are we on Earth, religion can't answer, also science can't, but can we be nice to each other? ❤️
You're right, he didn't, although there is a good answer easy to find by searching. But he did say he wouldn't be able to get to everything in his response
Its SIN… our earthly bodies are sick because of SIN. Sin also gets passed down, we inherit sin, we have demons influencing sin, causing sin, indulging in sin. Literally all it takes is reading the Bible to have these answers! Lol
@@VoicesThePodcast define sin when a babe is born sick please
@@geromlili2548 I just did lol, its inherited through generations and demonic influence. The sins your grandparents and great grandparents committed is passed down through their families. This is WHY there is sickness and death, because of the fall (sin) of Adam and Eve. You can either accept that truth or ignore it and continue to try and confirm your bias but that will only lead to temporary relief and lead to even more questions as to why things aren’t adding up later on in life. Because there isn’t any true answer in seeking things you WANT to be true, instead of seeking THE truth.
Interesting how christian influencers have the need to simplify and alter C.H.'s sentences for their followers to understand.
It's interesting to me how atheists like Hitches cannot state their POV in simpler terms. You are assuming that every atheists is smarter than any Christian but as I watched the debate it seemed to me that Lennox did not have to cloud his POV with a large vocabulary which Hitchens uses to try and make himself " appear " as the smartest person on the stage. It's a great debate technique but it is merely camouflage for the weakness of his positions. The commentator was merely getting rid of all the " fluff" Hitchens always uses to state Hitchens POV in a more direct and succinct manner which Hitchens either cannot do or does deliberately to hide the weakness of his actual statements.
@@Laird1956 English is my second language and I understand Hitchens perfectly (a bit harder when listening to J.Peterson though). You don't understand Hitchens and I don't see arguments of the other side as valid, but I respect the speaker though. This seems to be a good topic for a debate, but it's one sided depending on who's listening.
So again thank you for re-emphasing my point. Your reply and your original comment assume that atheists are always the " smartest people in the room ". I understand Hitchens perfectly. Every word, every meaning of everything he said. There's no reason to discuss any further with you because it seems that although you understand Hitchens perfectly and I according to you don't. ( an incorrect assumption) you apparently cannot understand my basic point which is atheists assume that all Christians are not as smart as they are. I have studied the atheist POV for years. Read all the books. Seen all the arguments So I have investigated my opponent. Have you done a deep dive to really understand Christianity? Maybe you have...I'm sure you're very bright. Being smart is overrated. I will take wisdom. It's hard in a text to convey my POV without sounding as if I am trying to stroke my own ego. Please understand that is not my purpose. I try every day to surrender it. So I will not debate who's the smartest people in any room because it's unprovable but I will pray that you at least open up your own mind that there does at least exist a possibility that humans may not be as smart as we think we are. I will pray for you.
@@Laird1956 So much to discuss and talk about here...I was just surprised when you wrote that Hitchens should use simpler language. I apologize for implying that you didn't understand him. I'm profoundly convinced that the the gospel is greatly misinterpreted by the church and therefore misleading. I also am conviced the christian portrayal of God is misleading, too so I don't believe in that God. I believe that the Universe isn't stupid as it couldn't have produced an intelligent beings. I believe we are in a sense an image of this intelligent Universe, we came from it, and eventually going back to it.
I don't believe God is outside the Universe. I believe that everything is God. The reality itself. The existence itself. An intelligent existence which is so close, so simple that you don't see it.
In your world view where how did the universe begin? Just curious.
Hitch makes the classic atheist error of being arrogant and inept at the same time.
Is that supposed to be an argument?
@@TurinTuramber
Interesting fact, “NEW ATHEISM” that is moral subjectivism and epistemological nihilism is exactly like the old atheism if the old atheism was bitten by two infected bats called Darth Dawkins and Darth Posh but profoundly pointless and got a over Zealous strain of RABIES!!
@TurinTuramber I don't think it was meant to be an argument. Just a short factual comment and observation. You don't have to be any arrogant person to be an athiest 'preacher' but it is a very common trait.
@@bassmanjr100 Just clumsy ad hominems, maybe ask your God friend for some grace and better arguments.
He was neither.
Something Christopher Hitchens claimed is something he couldn't state himself that a believer could, if you're sticking to being an atheist; here goes.
Q1. The word moral is translated from the Latin moralis, it is derived from the Ethos, Pathos, Logos, the ancient Greek, the explanation to determine morals; Logos meaning God meaning word of God, reasoning, created order.
If your argument is morals, then you can claim morals, like false teachings and religion, but by its definition, you can't claim the true derivative; in order to have true morals, to argue its origin, is like trying to say that a three leg bar stool is a functional with two legs it, will fall all the time without the third support.
Q2. Faith is not exclusive to truth, so here's a false faith that has done wicked.
Jeremiah 19:4-5
4. Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the blood of innocents;
5. they have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:
Non biblical action is carried out, but it is argued biblically as well for false faith; which is prevalent today in false faith.
John 16:1-3
1. These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
2. They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
3. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
The right statement you couldn't have made that a believer could, is similar Richard Dawkins statement, even if God's voice boomed across the sky saying I'm God, and I am real, he would believe that he was having a hallucination.
In the way of the augment even if you could have shown Christopher Hitchens what he asked for, and in seeing it for himself, he probably wouldn't want to believe it, as where a true believer in God could.
Now here's the kicker, you could argue back and forth, but one thing you can't argue is that the bible says,
Romans 1:28
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
If Moses couldn't convince pharaoh, what makes you think you can convince an atheist to believe, rather you can deliver the message, if it's accepted, fine, if it's not who am I as a believer to think I can usurp Gods time and place.
Matthew 10:14
14. And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Learning to walk away is not the same as abandoning, you have done your part, the rest is up to God, if an atheist turns you have gained a brother, if not then neither party has lost what they never had; if an atheist keeps coming to you to argue after that, then they are seeking God, and probably don't even release it.
Case and point is prevalent the minute you argue there is no God, it's like arguing, there's no such thing as thoughts or dreaming, nobody else can see what you see in your sleep, yet you know it's there, and no matter how much you describe it, nobody can experience what you have experienced, so to some it's just a silly dream, but to others it has fruition.
Allow me to rephrase that for you: "Please God, don't let me die. Not me, surely not me. I'm too "special" to die. Spare me the inevitable fate of every living organism".
@@donthesitatebegin9283
You can rephrase it however you want, regardless of its sensical reply, it's your choice, and if you're an atheist, your welcome, as your reply is case and point, God loves you, and you don't realise it.
Biblically rephrased to your statement.
Philippians 1:20-21
20. according to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death.
21. For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Put another way.
Mark 8:34-36
34. And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
35. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
36. For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
What do you want to gain in relation to origin to the meaning of the word moral, if it's to find meaning in an argument, well you have missed your own point, that to you if God doesn't exist, to argue anything is to argue with yourself.
@@froyaw7239 Allow me to rephrase that: "You can't shame me for my magical-thinking, sheer narcissism and self-involved childish beliefs, because I have no sense of shame. All that matters to me is that I don't die".
People may try to shame you, but that's not what I want for you in the heart God has given me, I would rather you're an atheist or a believer, but not at the expense of shaming you.
What's the point of saying I love God, yet I want to shame or hurt another human; that if I believe that God made you and everyone in His image, then where is the Love of God in me.
Rather is this, you and I both have this commonality, that you don't die, but in my case without the Love of God, however I can't force you to accept agape, all I can do is this, bring you what I believe share with you, and hope that your heart is eventually opened to it.
If your heart is hardened because of condemnation preached at you, it's because the point is missed by them preaching condemnation for condemnation's sake, because nobody can ever be the God they say they believe in.
If you don't believe your heart is hardened by condemnation, then it's likely you wouldn't have replied to me, but regardless, if you ever want to know God, message me in the hope God gives me a message for you.
Don't message me if you don't want to hear about God; I have no condemnation towards you if you message me or not.
@@froyaw7239 Yeah, sure. The very Creator of the Universe "loves you" and "won't let you die" because you're so "special" (!?).
The collision of Andromeda and our Milky Way is best termed a "merger". Both these galaxies are mainly made up of empty space, despite containing countless starts, so it's not like a collision of solid objects.
I tell you guys, it’s not the man questioning God but the man answering for Him that causes the problem.
Brilliant- thanks.
I am happy to collect your gullibility money for my god because he wants me to get a new beer fridge and put an air conditioner in the bedroom so he can send me cool or warm off-season messages.
@VaughanMcCue one thing that he forgot to mention (even though he didn't have to):
If your wishes brings you closer God, then it's from God
If you're wishes pushes you away from God, then it's not from God
Jesus taught us to be contempt with what we have, in the story of the rich man (Matthew 19). To yearn for materialistic things to please our materialistic desires is not from God
@@AreEnTee
I am sure your comment has fallacious thinking, but I can remember its description.
Mythical stories like this originate in Greek and other ancient traditions.
Is wishing for a return to the health of a sick child materialistic?
If I pray that my bank robbery goes to plan and I succeed, as long as I am thankful to my chosen god, will you and Zeus be happy?
@VaughanMcCue i would say wishing for health is not materialistic, but robbing a bank is. If you rob a bank, you are robbing other people's money that's not yours. Whereas wishing for health is completely different scenario compared to a bank robbery
And I am sorry for my ignorance, can you tell me why my comment might have fallacious thinking?
@@AreEnTee
Health is material because we can see and feel the results by measurement. For example, a cure for a fever would show that the infection has gone because the bacteria will be dead under a microscope, and the body temperature will return to normal.
Robbing a bank is no different than church leaders tricking gullible and poor people into giving 'god' their money and the pastor (god's self-appointed manager) using the money for whatever he wants.
Banks charge interest but do not give it to the poor like in Prov 28:8, but a bank robber who steals and gives to the poor IS doing their god's work.
The fallacy is Affirming the Consequent, but I am a unsure.
Chat GBT:- Imagine you have a rule: "If it rains, the ground gets wet."
Now, someone might see wet ground and think, "Ah, it must have rained!"
But here's the thing: Just because the ground is wet doesn't mean it rained.
Maybe someone watered the plants, or there was a leaky pipe.
So, affirming the consequent fallacy is when you assume that because something happened.
(the ground is wet), the initial condition must have happened, too (it must have rained).
However, there could be other reasons for the result besides the initial condition.
There is something you might like to think about.
What test do you or any believer use to verify that their actions are what their god wants?
It would appear as though that person is claiming to know the mind of their god.
I believe that is true because everyone invents a god that suits themselves.
Some real Christians think Saturday is the correct holy day, and others believe it is Sunday.
If they are both correct, then you have to accept all the different rules that every Christian denomination adopts, such as approved foods, yes or no to blood transfusions, yes or no to polygamy, etcetera.
For a perfect book, the bible is undoubtedly a source of great confusion. 1Cor 14:16
“God loves you so much that he created hell just in case you don’t love him back” - Christopher Hitchens
God created hell for satan and the angels that tried to overthrow God and his kingdom
@@jeffreyterrio5665 God created Evil - Isaiah 45 : 7 KJV
7. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things. Fortunately, I know this is bull and if you weren’t credulous you would too. There is no evidence for your belief in a god nor is there any evidence for a satan.
@@LosAngelesDrummeryes there is. I have a photo of a spirit next to my daughter that you can see as clearly as her. My friend has a video of himself with one flying around him for 2 minutes. Those 2 things alone are EVIDENCE are they not? Ive also seen demons with my own eyes. You cant see touch taste feel smell or hear gravity yet its real, isnt it? I used to be like you, but atheists who turn to believers do so because they have encounters with God or the supernatural. Some find out playing around with witchcraft, Ouija boards or black magic. God says seek me and you will find me. The word of God is alive. If you seek him and obey his commandments, you wont just see God, you won’t stop being able to see him. He speaks to you and you can hear his voice. Doctors in a hospital did a study of people they would kill then bring back to life. They did a test where they took tape and outlined different shapes on top of the light fixtures on the ceiling because people who have died and come back to life all claim the first thing they see is them leaving their body, they can see themselves and they float to the ceiling. The results of the study were the patients perfectly identified the shapes they hid on the lights on the ceiling. They didn’t inform the patients about the symbols they hid, they just asked them what they saw
@@LosAngelesDrummerGod created us and we are evil, he created satan and he is the father of evil. I have evidence God exists but RUclips doesn’t allow photo sharing
@@jeffreyterrio5665 utter nonsensical illusions wished to be real by very credulous people. If you want to be awe-inspired, ladies and gentlemen, and let me say, let me just tell you that those of us that do not believe we are divinely created, let alone divinely supervised, are not immune to the idea of awe and beauty and the transcendent. Let me invite you to look for a moment at the pictures taken by the James Webb telescope. Perhaps you have done it. If you haven’t done it now, or yet, do it soon. The extraordinary revelations of swirling, yet somehow beautiful new galaxies in color and depth in majesty like nothing I think the human eye has ever seen.
Turn away from that if you wish and gaze at a burning bush in an illiterate desert part in the Middle East and say that’s where revelation comes from.
Let’s also never forget when religion professed that the earth was flat and the center of everything and it was the sun that revolved around us. Let’s not forget that the church believed that earthquakes were caused by an angry god, knew nothing of plate tectonics. Religion had no clue about micro organisms. Religion has run out of justifications. It has had to give up so much in the name of science and will continue to yield to controlled science. Religion insults our intelligence as well as our innate morality by insisting that we believe absurdities that are drawn from the Bronze Age.
Hitchens does not comprehend that he will never be able to measure an Infinite Being , God, by his minuscule and finite understanding. He paints a finite God on the wall and then ridicule’s his false version of what God truly is.
Lennox smashed it, again.
"Won" an argument with a dead guy. Praise Jebus!
He dunked on him at the end
Cristopher Hitchens never acknowledged God even on his death bed and rested in peace.
@@kos-mos1127 that's sad
@@kos-mos1127well, maybe he rested in peace. Or maybe he didn't.
@@Taydutt13 What’s sad is believing in near eastern fairytales.
@@Taydutt13no it’s sad that you think the way you do.
One answer to Hitchens' question about what moral thing a religious person can do that an atheist can't is: the religious person can love God.
I don’t recognise that as moral. Surely the only fair things to actually consider are things we agree to be moral.
Define moral, and then explain how loving God and all that follows from that, i.e. wanting a relationship with God involving prayer, study of His word, and the practice of His word out of love for Him has no morality to it. And who is this 'we' who decides what is moral and immoral?@@damienschwass9354
Letting go of your godhood to accept the authority of God over you is moral. It is a humbling of your pride, which is the original sin.@@damienschwass9354
That answer obviously presupposes God to exist. Without God, just loving God isn't a moral act it's just fluff.
Put your thinking cap on this time.
@@TurinTuramber And...?
I was raised in the southern Baptist church. That i saw a siner and will be judged when i die. I'm 75 now and have come to understand a power has always watched over me. Not the teachings of a church. When god made everything he put it in motion and that is the law of nature
The others two are law of man and God. Out biggest failing as humans is we ignore the laws of nature and as a child we burn our hands even though we were warned not to touch. Look back through time a you will see how we continue to believe we can do whatever we want and nature will give us a pass. Living in tornado alley thinking you home want get hit. Yet a hole town can be destroyed and a baby was found in the destruction unharmed. I think that power thats watched over me spared that child.
Neil Tyson said something like the andromeda galaxy and the milky way could collide but because they're so big and far apart the probability of planets or stars hitting is so little. so that itself can't be counted as an apocalyptic event. 😂
yep, we'll find out the answer in 4.5 billion years...
Hitchens is great to listen to. Very smart, but a waste of intelligence. He does a good job making my faith stronger.
Hitchslap is amazing. Forever be a legend ❤️
I ask in all sincerity
If he was wrong ?
If he was correct?
Jesus is Lord
Jesus Saves!
Be safe and well.
Powerful discussion, kudos to both gentlemen. Here are few examples of how one can challenge some claims of Christopher Hitchens:
When Hitchens claimed that Einstein repudiated any belief in a "personal God or savior or divine revelation:
"While he did not adhere to religious doctrines, Einstein himself said 'I'm not an atheist' and spoke of feeling profound 'reverence for the sublime' in nature. He believed in a cosmic intelligence or reason underlying the rationality of the universe - what we might call an impersonal conception of the divine. To claim he repudiated any sense of the supernatural is simply incorrect based on Einstein's own words."
After Hitchens ranted about the futility of the temporary, decaying universe:
"The temporality of this present universe is a feature, not a bug. The Bible itself prophesies about the heavens and earth being re-made anew after this era. This objection only holds if one has the atheistic assumption that this material realm is all that exists. For Christians, it is just the beginnings of a much grander reality and an eternal cosmos to come."
When Hitchens described religious beliefs as stemming from blind subservience to a "celestial dictator":
"Christianity views God as a loving father who gave humans the ultimate free will to choose or reject that relationship. If anything, it was atheistic dictatorships of the 20th century that deprived human freedom and tried to coercively impose a certain worldview. The Christian tradition gave us individual liberty of conscience."
On Hitchens' challenge about moral actions only believers can perform, a stronger reply could have been:
"While we can agree all humans can recognize moral truths, the honest atheist has no objective basis to call any act truly 'moral' or 'immoral' in an ultimate sense. If we're all just accidental by-products of mindless naturalistic processes, rational minds trapped in irrational biology as you imply, then there are no objective moral values, obligations or duties. Only beliefs rooting ethics in the commands of a God can ground a fully coherent moral framework."
Regarding Hitchens' depiction of God as constantly watching and invigilating humans:
"How freeing is the Christian notion that an omniscient God knows us completely, yet still wants a relationship with us as we are - not demanding perfection but offering grace? What unprecedented acceptance. In contrast, an impersonal universe without consciousness behind it doesn't actually 'see' any of us as individuals with purpose or value. That is the lonelier reality."
TLDR. Was it about how "special" you are in the eyes of the very Creator of the Universe, how he "loves you" and "won't let you die" because you are so "special"?
@@donthesitatebegin9283 Yes, christians believe that humans are special. Acording Bible, they where created to the Creator's image.
@@robitibor777 Hoist by your own petard. So funny.
@@donthesitatebegin9283Then let us say we are merry as a midsummer's jest!
Us humans by our own standards have failed terribly and yet we have the nerve to try and dictate Gods actionsand decide for him what a good God would've done😂. The "well if God was so good then why doesn't he do this or that?" question is valid but then again if you refuse certain facts then it will never mean much to you. If you refuse to accept the fact that we live in a fallen world then nothing God does will make sense to you and maybe you can revist this issue later on if you'll still have time😊😊❤
Otherwise these videos are always a blessing.
Belief in the existence of god is an unsupported theological assertion.
“unsupported”
“UNSUPPORTED” according to who? or what absolute, universal, objective standard of measure exactly?
“UNSUPPORTED” according to the standard of an overgrown amoeba with illusions of grandeur? Or “UNSUPPORTED” according to nothing more substantive than an ULTIMATELY MEANINGLESS, HOLLOW AND SOULLESS APE WHO SHARES HALF THEIR DNA WITH A POTATO? I’ll wait!!
Militant atheism is a walking ball of self contradiction and cognitive dissonance!!
So nice to hear a civilized debate on u-tube.
I keep hearing about how smart Lennox is, but then he opens his mouth and spews garbage arguments and I feel stupider.
He keeps talking about “the god I know……” smh this is a debate???
If God is real, he completely doesn't care about our happiness or comfort. And also the sun rises on the wicked and the saints just the same. I watch the wicked live long lives and I'm perplexed
He wants them to be saved. So why wouldn't he give them more time to change their minds and accept the truth.
@@kladies3021
That's all good... but in the process, justice is delayed or non existent because they're living comfortably. It's contradictory to reaping what you sow.
@@kladies3021 Yeah but wouldn't he already know the outcome?
That's the point.
God is a cosmic horror and we're just his playthings.
God Himself is the good itself. Bad people can cruxify the good for the reason which the bad thinks very good. But at last it is God who will judge each one, the good and the bad. Hope all the people to open their eyes to see and the believe in God! Abel lives in God even after having been killed by Cain, but Cain dies in Hell. So finally, the real miserable is not the good, but the bad. The only way out for the bad is to stop doing bad.But without the help of God, the bad cannot stop doing bad based on their evil and stupid nature. Only after they can believe in and obey Jesus, the Holy Spirit will guide , help and discpline them, and then they are saved from sins, which keep them far away from the real good, but addicted in the bad.
Thanks, Brandon. I find it bizarre that Hitchens failed to find anyone who could meet his "challenge". Did he just hear what they said only to dismiss it without really ever genuinely considering it? Or did he tend to encounter those only with a theoretical knowledge of God? If it was the latter, that would be deeply sad.
There are so many you could say, and especially those that relate to the spiritual gifts : to pray for someone is the most obvious, to relay a message from God to someone (that might take many different forms, and might consist of different stages- waiting on the Lord, etc), to pray for healing or forgiveness or wholeness or some other things for someone- whether that be up-close or across vast distances- to intercede for someone, to introduce someone to Jesus, to cast out demons from someone, etc etc.
Of course, an atheistic worldview would rule these out from the start- at least when only hearing about them, as opposed to experiencing them- but even then, like the lepers and others who walked away, there's still a choice to be made.
But surely one of the key points is that it is the supernatural relationship with Christ and the life that flows out of that which distinguishes a Christian from a non-Christian.
Correction - it is the delusion of a "supernatural relationship with Christ and the life that flows out of that which distinguishes a Christian from a non-Christian".
"Religion is man-made and it shows. It shows very well indeed." - Christopher Hitchens
That religion is man made and some choose to follow man, while others choose to follow the one true God. Indeed, religion is man made, because God became like us and dwelt amongst us to lead us to the Father, not belittling our humanity but raising it up to a high esteem so as to be worthy of praise and honor. Yet we choose to follow man rather than God, who gave us back our dignity.
We already have had dignity, and have always had the capacity for dignity. Ironically, God's chosen people were far, far more indignate and barbaric than our present civilisation. The notion that we have rejected the offer of our retribution or dignity is false. If you want to put it that way, God has already given us our entire mental faculty that suffices for an upright society. Now we are simply trying to create it.
“Religion is man made”
Is that absolutely “true” with a capital T or was it just “MAN MADE”? I’ll wait!!
By the way, you just totally and utterly refuted your self!!
@georgedoyle2487 Do you believe the religion of Christianity is absolute truth? If so, please provide absolute proof. I'll wait.
@@questioneverything2845
“Do you believe”
Was that a “rational” question or were you just “determined” to be easily triggered by what other people believe? I’ll wait!!
Moreover, was that your “superior man made” totally arbitrary, totally subjective opinion talking or was it just the by product of the blind, mindless, ultimately meaningless, accidental arrangement of random atoms and brain chemicals creating the illusion of stable patterns and regularities? I’ll wait no problem!! This should be good.
As usual, Hitchens supplies more straw men than a scarecrow factory
Hitchens arguments are just horribly bad.. i doubt he's read the Bible for himself, i perceive he's just ranting based on other people's misconceptions.
Hitchens probably read more books than anybody you have ever met. You are simply lashing out because he ruffled your theological feathers.
Bible should not be only read (one, two or three times and that´s it) - it should be study over and over, and over. Any fool can read (know), but the point is to understand.
@@TurinTuramber hi. As you say "he's probably read more book.... " And that may be so. But most of his assertions about the bible is completely false, for one he said we were 'created' with sickness and diseases, that's absolutely false!
He, as well as many other atheists simply do not read the Bible.
@@Loading....99.99 You don't believe people are born already with sin? I thought that was Christian doctrine. Pretty sure that what he meant, do you have a link.
@@TurinTuramber@6:40 watch. Hitchens said we were originally created with 'sin, wickedness, sickness, etc' ... nonsense!
I don't know if Lennox accidentally or intentionally misunderstood Hitchens at 19:45 but it seems that Hitchens was asking for moral behavior of humans that's allowed by religion that Hitchens as an atheist couldn't do. The example that Lennox gives here is an obvious non sequitur.
I think both Lennox and Hitchens did some mistakes in their arguments in this debate.
It's an irrelevant point, who decides what is moral behavior. Just because atheists copy Christian morals help their position in any way.
@@feignit I think the general argument is that you "need religion" because you supposedly cannot have good moral values otherwise. If that were true, it would be very important who or what decides the moral behavior.
These Comments Prove Hitchens 100% Correct