Replacing an Exposed Beam With A Hidden Steel Beam
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- www.aconcordca...
So we turned to a local steel company that supplies, preps and installs the beam. We supplied the steel company with the length of beam which was the entire beam length minus ¼” and specified that we wanted the beam to fit inside a 2x10 joist bay.
The steel company uses a local structural engineer who specified a W8x58 steel beam with 4x6 PSL posts. The PSL posts transfer the weight to other posts [bearing points] or the foundation below
Note - with steel beams the engineer, may specify 4x6 PSL posts secured with metal connectors, or steel posts welded to steel plates.
We supplied the steel company with the floor joist layout, so they could drill the 1/2” holes in between the floor joists. The holes allow solid lumber to be bolted to the beam. Carriage bolts or threaded rod can be used to secure the wood to the beam.
TIP: Threaded rod is more affordable, and is easily sourced.
Solid wood was installed on each side of the beam. This is called “packing the beam,” the three 2x8 boards were needed to extend past the top and bottom steel flange. This solid wood allows for attachment of the joists via joist hangers.
TIP: When installing the solid wood; the area where the top and bottom flanges meet the vertical I-beam web is slightly rounded. Bevel the edges of your 2x8 to fit tight against the web.
Prior to removing a bearing wall, remove the wall or ceiling board to expose the framing. Then remove or relocate wires, pipes or duct-work that will be in the way of the beam.
Strip the ceiling back 2 -3 feet back from the wall to be removed or beam, and install your temporary wall. This is needed to access the ceiling framing, relocate wires, pipes, and to install your temporary support walls.
In our case we built our walls 4 feet back due to the kitchen island and the need for a 4-foot corridor to allow the Sumner Roust-A-Bout Lift to roll in. The beam weighed more than one lift could handle, so two lifts were used. 48” of clearance was needed directly below, and on each end, of the beam. In some cases one lift will suffice and that lift will be centered under the beam.
TIP: Before building your temporary walls talk to the steel fabricator and see what they need for clearance for their equipment.
Attach temporary wall studs to top and bottom plates 2 to 3 feet back from the wall or beam. Ensure a snug fit, by cutting your studs about 1⁄8 to 1⁄4 inch long and tap place. Place a stud under each ceiling joist and use two or three 3- inch #10 deck screws.
Weight loading the temporary studs will occur once you remove the bearing wall, or beam. In our case we noticed loading once the two vertical posts were removed. Tip: install mid-height horizontal or diagonal bracing on the temporary wall to prevent the studs from bowing.
We were removing one beam and replacing it with a flush beam so we used the same beam pocket locations, but enlarged them to accommodate the new steel beam. Note: Add 1/2” to the steel beam width measurement to allow for an easier installation.
We used a Bosch Green line laser to connect both beam pocket locations and then used a speed square to mark cut lines directly on the joists. To start each cut, a circular saw was used and finished up with a reciprocating saw.
After cutting the beam pocket, clean up stray nails to make room for the beam. We used end nippers to cut the nails flush or a reciprocating saw to cut them. Note: Any stray nails can be push up the subfloor or finish floor when the beam is installed.
Once the beam pocket was prepped, we rolled two Sumner Roust-A-Bout lifts into position and centered them under the beam. The beam was then jacked up and into place.
The Sumner Roust-A-Bout lifts enables one man to lift and place loads in tight locations that would be impossible with other lifts. One lift can raise a 1,500 lb. load to heights up to 25-feet in minutes. 4x6 PSL engineered posts were then installed under each beam end.
L-brackets were then attached to the PSL posts with Headlock structural screws and then the bracket is welded to the beam.
If able, add, and attached the PSL posts to wall framing installed on both sides to the top and bottom plates.
#10 joist hanger nails were used to fasten 2x10 Simpson joist hangers to the beam.
Rob, thanks a million!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My wife and I decided to take on this challenge after watching your video (not sure how smart it was :) ). We just finished and it went perfectly. In our application we were putting it in a two story home and had a 21 foot span, so it was definitely "SCARY" at times, but end up being perfect! We had multiple quotes between 25 and 35k 😭, but we were able to do it on our own (with some helping hands and minds from family) for under $6000 (all in with materials and rentals)😄. We obviously made some changes to what you did due to our situation (we 'super-built' everything to be sure). We used 6x8 lvls for the posts, packed the beam with 4x8's (which needed to be planed down a bit) and 1/2" plywood, used carriage bolts instead of threaded rod, and a couple of other differences. We definitely could not have ever dreamt of doing it without your video and wanted to say "THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
From a licensed structural engineer , I would say you did everything by the book. Great Job.
Thank you sir
Rob, you did an incredible job of articulating, practically step-by-step, with parts description. I really enjoyed this video. Thank you for posting.
Thank you Eric
All I can say is: "That's intense"!
Rob, once again, you and your crew do fantastic work.
I use to work for Sumner manufacturing back in the mid 80's and i built the roust a bouts and did some delivery, now i am a Custom Home Builder and Architect in Houston, Texas this brings back memories. I like your video this is the first one that i have seen you spoke so well of your job with installing the flush beam.
Thank you sir
very thorough and knowledgeable on the topic. Excellent work. Thank you
An excellent video Rob. All involved did a good job. Put an LVL in my son and daughter-in-laws house last year. My daughter-in-law talked to the person who was doing work at her parents house who said the wall was not load bearing but I knew it was.... I went down for a visit before they hired this gentleman and had a structural engineer look at it who confirmed it was load bearing. The structural engineer drew up plans for the wall, specified what beam and with fastener options, etc and we got it done.
No knock on the gentleman who originally looked at it. He was a handyman and not a licensed contractor. He did really good work on my daughter-in-laws parents kitchen and the wainscoting and flooring in their dining room. But he wasn’t a viable option for opening up that wall.
I explained to my son and daughter-in-law that their house is an investment in their future and that any repairs, remodeling or structural changes need to be done safely and properly.
You folks are my favorite RUclips channel and always put out information pertinent to people in the trades or DIYer’s. Thanks.
Ron
Very nice video with lots of helpful info. As an engineer myself, my only constructive criticism is I would have used 15/32 plywood and a 4x8 planed down with a jointer to "pack" the W8x58 beam. This is instead of using three 2x8's on each side. The outermost 2x8 is not supported adequately on the bottom flange in my opinion. I would have cut 15/32 plywood to fit innermost next to the web of the steel beam, then place a 4x8 outboard of the plywood. The overhang outside the flange would be negligible, and you wouldn't cause any shear or moment stresses on that outer board. Excellent otherwise.
Should be negligible anyway if the bolts are adequate
I would Agree to this Idea and proper stitch nailing of the 3- 2x8s would be important. Also A-35s to the underside of the plywood subfloor would be good for shear transfer to the diaphragm above.
Phenomenal job explaining all the ins and outs without missing any bit of infornation. Thank you for this !
BEAUTIFULLY explained. I'm in an almost identical situation, and really feel like I have a better handle on things now. Thank you!
I felt like you were speaking another language but the video let m know what you meant. I was so glad to see what happens when one is installed. I'll be getting one in my new to me 1955 ranch! Thanks!!
Your information and delivery is PERFECT. No cut corners yet to the point. Thank you very much.
More like this please! In the Uk the structural engineer rarely specifies anything other than steel for support, it’s a hell of a job usually but I charge around £1000 a meter for the complete job so although it’s a job I never look forward to, I make sure I’m compensated adequately! It’s always interesting to see how it’s done on the other side of the ocean
Ben Chippy can u get those lifts easy in the uk?
We often use a ‘genie lift’ I think it’s the same, a winch operated lift. More often tho we just shoulder it, it’s hard to manuvure the lift into a house and they are so heavy! If we’re opening up the back of the house for an extension we might use a lift
Ben Chippy oh yup, what part of the uk are u in just out interest? I'm in NZ
I’m in Milton Keynes, bout 40 miles north of London. Do you use steels rsj in nz too? I’ve always wanted to live there btw!
Ben Chippy You would be right at home mate, plenty of poms already here, yes we use steel beams if the engineer specifies them
Good stuff. Just took on a project that the customer wants to replace the triple lvl beam 14 inch. With 9" steel. Good informative info. I appreciate it. Engineer next
We are going to take out a 20 section of bearing wall (one sided) and want the beam to be flush mount. Can't get an LVL to work for deflection so we need to use hot rolled. This is exactly what I needed to see. Thanks!
Good luck!
Rob - amazing step by step description which will equip me with some knowledge when asking my builder to undertake this job for me. Great job!!!!!!
Beautifully explained and removes much of the smoke and mirrors from what looks like a very fiddly (and potentially dangerous) operation. Some before/after footage would add something here, though not really the point of the video. We're about to do something similar here in Sydney, Aust. Many thanks - Dave
Thank you, Rob, for the very educational video!...Just replaced my 100 year old basement staircase and have to replace a joist in order to increase the headroom!
Nicely done in the perfect amount of time, with the appropriate amount of detail.
Thank you for making this video, it was very clear and informative! I've never installed a steel beam and my clients asked that I look into it for their first floor remodel. This was incredibly helpful getting us started in the right direction!
Excellent descriptions of what you did, very very well spoken and precise, and helpful to remember tips you recognized along the way. Thanks for the post. Very good
Excellent video and concept. I am working on an academic paper, and this was THE answer I needed. Many thanks!
Great video and well done. The steel guys like me love to see a good planned job. So we have room to do our work. Not a easy task most of the time. Really like the space you left for them to work.
Of all the wall removal videos I've seen, yours is the only one that mentions fasteners from the above subfloor!
I found this video to be extremely informative. If you want, you can pause the recording at multiple points instead of trying to shoot the entire process in one attempt. It'll also make you more comfortable about speaking to the camera if you do that since you can stop and restart whenever you finish each main point.
What an awesome video!! Thank you for sharing estimated cost, in answered comments, as well!!
Really useful walkthrough of the process. Thanks a lot. Great job.
Awesome tutorial. Very informative and you really took the time to mention the caveats/potential tripping points. Thank you sir!
Fantastic work
Very excellent tutorial. Thank you
This is a real PRO Job. Double thumbs up!!
In other words skip this unless you absolutely have to. Looks expensive for what they get out of it. Makes me appreciate the easier to handle stuff I deal with. Love your videos. Take care.
Well no, if the joists run the same direction as the steel then it's a much simpler job (certainly in the UK). Cross directional is a nightmare and I wouldn't ever specify it on a project. Some people choose to lower their ceilings instead of trying to recess which is cheaper but you need the ceiling height for this to not be an issue.
Well said rob.I know someone that is thinking of doing something similar to his place I will be passing this video on to him to get some ideas.cheers.
Wish you were in my location! I have exact same project with less issues. A 30ft span with 4 6x6 posts supporting an enclosed deck. Remove posts and to replace with steel beam across span. Every contractor here says it cant be done and would require a 24" LVL with only two posts removed.
You’re very helpful, I have a second floor concrete wall three stories high sitting at 150-year-old wooden beam that is sagging in the middle over a basement. I have to jack up the beam To level the floor and then put in a permanent support such as an I beam
Excellent description. I hope it works in the UK!
well done. Good step by step video.
Steel and wood: an excellent combination! Greetings from the Old Continent!
That was explained so well made it so easy to understand along with the Video and photos thanks
Well done. Thank you for sharing.
I need to do it in my house as well.
You can do it!
Great video. Interesting to see how other country’s do it! It’s done exactly the same here in Scotland 🏴 love the content!!
Very thorough and detailed. Thank you very much for taking the time to make a very nice presentation.
This is the video I've been looking for!! Thank you much! Great explanations, angles, details. Gave me the confidence needed for my next step.
that was awesome! i liked the beveled edge on the back of the wood.
Great presentation and detail. You know your stuff. Thanks.
Great informative video, thanks for sharing your experience!
Terrific video, great insights.
This was really helpful and awesome, great work
excellent video. Thank you
One of your best videos rob. Very tidy work .
Good job overall, and liked the way you packed the beam with wood and threaded rod. One problem I saw is the 1/2" total joist overcut on the beam opening. Though making for an easier install, this would be problematic as joist hangers are designed for joists to be flush against the beam. 1/4" gap here is out of spec and many engineers and inspectors will fail this.
AdvancedRemodeling Do u mean cost for the contractor or cost for the the client?
AdvancedRemodeling interesting - by the time the beam was installed the gap was closer to 1/8”. probably due to hand cutting, cutting left of line, etc
If it was an issue, it’s always possible to add another layer between the laminated wood to give a tighter fit.
Plus sistering lumber is never an exact measurement.
@@ConcordCarpenteryes, 1/8" gap beam to joist most inspectors won't complain. Insetting beams is not an easy operation, your video makes it look easy! Cutting and prepping the pocket is a battle. If that wasn't bad enough actually raising the beam can be very difficult without that nice lift you have. Even piecing LVLs one by one into an inset pocket has its problems. We often perform this procedure and if the gap is too tight its very difficult.
Love this video and the step by step explanation!
Very cool to watch! I've been thinking up an alternative to a full-length structural beam at my roof ridge. (It's a 26' wide single-story 1925 bungalow that we're about to add a camelback addition to, connecting existing roof with new by building a full-height dormer centered on the old ridge.) To beef up the existing ridge, which is just a 1x sandwiched between the 2x8 rafters, I was thinking of fabricating some trapezoidal plywood gussets that hug the rafters (allowing us to remove the old collar ties), and running 24" lengths of doubled-up 2x10 lumber between them (leaving the original ridge board in place).
I wonder if this would have the overall stiffening effect that a structural LVL ridge beam would, or if I'm just fooling myself. :-)
Rob- you are very talented, no question. I disagree with packing the web. The level of work that has gone into this clearly indicates a healthy budget. I would have literally gone 6x8x1/4 A36
HSS and welded custom steel joist hangars to the parent metal. I have met few P.E.s and AISC, and ASME engineers who find the packing technique to be comfortable for them. Maybe I’m just spoiled and live in the land of endless material and support resources coming from multimillion dollar shops...either way, enjoyed watching this video. The big takeaway is showing the power of what 2 pieces of what look to be 3x3x1/2L can hold on the attachment points to load center. The welding as you know is always secondary to the mechanical shore, but man does it help make the attachments
Thanks for your comment - your method sounds fun! I followed my structural engineers plan
Awesome! Thank you!
This is a great explanation!
Sebastiaan Mollema thx
Got a love it when a plan comes together
Sounds like a quote from The A-Team...lol
Yes sir
Well done. Easy to understand.
Super cool. Fortunate you could fit the beam into the basement. Surprised it didn’t have to go through a window.
Awesome job and explanation.
Really good idea with the LVL and Jack levelling.
Did you bring it back to where it was prior to ripping the old beam out or try to level the floor as best you could?
I would imagine, especially in older homes you wouldn’t be able to get a perfectly level floor from one side to other due to foundation not being perfectly level.
Agreed. Really welled explained
amazing retrofit!
Thank you! Cheers!
Nice video. Well thought out.
Great Video. / The end posts should be checked for plate crushing..limiting factor is post area x 625 psi..(For 4x6 post-12kips)
Amazing craftsmanship as usual!!
Very informative. Great video!
I second the awesome articulation..
my house is a nightmare with load bearing.. this should be fun and expensive
helluva job and thanks for the tip on the rout a bouts
I live in Japan and building a new kindergarten. Builder tells me I need posts. I asked them why not sandwich i-beams in between first and second floor to span the 7.5 m width. They said they can't. I've seen cold-composite steel but why is it so weird to mix steel and wood ?? You did it well
This is great work Rob!
Great info !
love watching these types of videos.
Thank you SO much for this EXTREMELY detailed and INFORMATIVE video!!!
You are so welcome!
👍 well explained! Been there, done that, got the tee shirt… home owners have NO IDEA what goes into eliminating “ one stupid little post” lol . I’ve heard it a million times and very rarely does it ever happen. But this was an excellent demonstration of what is involved. I’ll be bookmarking this one for the future when the homeowner asks me why my estimate includes a free diaper ! 🤣
Sick and tired Of complaining haha diaper - funny
Nice.
I'm about to do something similar.
This is helpful.
Awesome explanation as usual. Very helpful info!!!
I have clerestory construction where the roof truss beams go through the exterior wall to the lanai outside by the pool and pergola style pool enclosure that has 8 4X8 cedar beams over the pool, they are not load bearing other than their own weight and the pool screens. But.... The headers that hold those beams up as well as the main roof trusses on the house side of the pool are badly rotted. I just closed April 6 and knew there were three of the non load bearing beams that needed replacement, but now I see they all need replacement along with the header all the way along the pool length, which is 44 feet on one side and 34 on the house side, but the one on the house side of the pool is a critical structural element. It holds the roof up and I have found one of the header beams to be so rotton it is actually hollow, a kitchen knife meets zero resistance when stuck in. I need to get an engineer here ASAP and get the trusses shored up pretty much the same day on an emergency basis, but half the engineers in this area either retired when covid came along or they have shut their offices for the duration and I have been unable to reach any or get a call back.
Since the wooden members are exposed to Florida weather and over a pool which is by definition a damp place, I am thinking that replacing the 4x10 cedar headers with steel 4x9.5 box girders or I beams would be the best way to go since they can't warp or rot if protected from rust. The house was built in 1991 and it seems these wooden beams should have lasted longer than they have for such important load bearing structural members. Wood might be cheaper but by how much? Is it worth it if the job just has to be done in another 35 or 40 years?
By the way, the open span between the support columns is 12' 8" on center of the columns. So, the important load bearing house side would require 3 beams/girders to replace the rotton ones. And god I hope none of the trusses going into the walls inside have to be replaced. I think I would have to walk away if that were the case. But it is all going to be acedemic if I cannot find a working engineer in the next couple weeks.
Great video - I wonder with a deeper i beam you could rest trusses within it in case you split your truss span to reduce depth with support columns underneath.
8:20 Use a grinder to cut exposed nails. I love my cordless one for this type of job.
Really well done... Great details down to each screw.... I have series of joists sagging(slanting) all the way from the bearing/exterior wall to my sagging beam. It's a distance of about 13 feet. Is it possible that joists could sag that far a distance without something else being wrong? Thanks, Rob (My sagging beam is deflected by 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inch.) Thanks, Rob
Very interesting an thanks for the knowledge about installing a steel beam !!!!!!!!!
Wow, What a great video, just this morning I had a local Brooklyn, N.Y steel company visit my home for a similar quote. I want to remove a load bearing wall which has another load bearing just above my floor. I'm request that the new support beam be move over to where there is also a steel beam which this very same company had install one back in 2017. Back then I had them replaced all of the wooden beams and post with steel which help clean up my basement. My only concern now would be, would they be up to the task of trying to install a recess beam which would really look great in my new living room.
Very informative ❤
Great information! But, you skipped a critical step on us! The wide flange beam is hanging by the cables. You said "we rolled it into place". In the next scene the beam is on top of the two lift jacks. At 58 lbs./ft., I doubt that the beam was man-handled. How was that accomplished?
Brian Baldwin we rolled it on pipes and then rolled it on the lift bases
I’d have loved to see the finished job with the ceiling all closed up.
It was a flat continuous ceiling
Fantastic! The Prep as usual more then 50% of the project.
Big Question how and where did you find a Lift Rental Company or Did your Steel Vendor supply those Beam Lifts.?
Brilliant Staging and Engineering Rob ...
Any place that rents reachlifts, forklifts and such should have them. I use A to Z Rentals in Arizona.
Joe Daq yes they supplied it all - cost
@@ConcordCarpenter
Thanks Rob, I'm in the Philadelphia Venue and deal with More equipment Rental Companies then I can remember. But the ONLY people that I've ever seen using those type lifts have been Riggers an Haulers and or Steel/Iron guys doing the the Rough stuff in the High Rises in Center City Philly...
From what I see Your Crew does Outstanding Work and Workmanship.
Thanks Again, You and your crew have influenced a large number of purchases Especially the Safety Kits with a tourniquet in each truck . Thanks Joe D
That my friend is a dead serious undertaking
Does the PSL engineered post have to go all the way down to the foundation of the basement floor or just the 2x6 that sits on the foundation?
Great job! I would like to know would the support by the beam be less because you are using hoist hangers instead of putting it on top of it. I know that it would then not be a flushed beam but does it mean the support is less ?
Great question i hope he answers soon
Omg i loveeee it. Thank you so much for sharing 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻 any info about the costs please?
Steel beams are awesome! (Why did you have to pack the beam with 3 layers of wood though, was it not possible to bring the joists in to only one, that way the joists would also “sit” on the steel beam itself?)
No the hangers wont fit- you have to extend past flange
finally someone with common sense and joist hangers will fit if not that's why GOD made chizels
kick ass. no shortage of cordless to cut the wood. lates
dave daved yeah no cords is awesome
Hi Robert, as with many of the other comments below, a great video that does a really good job of explaining the details involved for homeowners like me that have no previous experience in this particular activity. And I offer that coming from someone who doesn't normally leave comments.
I'm a Scotsman abroad, living in Winnipeg, Canada, now and hoping to develop a basement in an 1970's era bungalow ... I would love to replace 1 (maybe 2) teleports with a steel beam to make the space more open.
Question -- Can you offer any ballpark costs to such a project (per meter or foot), and would any structural engineer company typically do this type of work for residential properties? If there are any such engineers from manitoba reading this, I welcome your feedback as well! :)
PS. I hit the like button, and am now subscribed! Thanks again, Ross.
No linear foot pricing - this was approx 18k frame to finish
Do you have any suggestion on how to not damage wood floors when building temporary walls??
Excellent work and video Rob. I’m waiting for the engineer to spec a steel beam for a similar situation. Our joists are 2 X 8’s and the spec might come in recommending W8x21. This will have the beam slightly lower than the existing ceiling. Rob, if strapping wasn’t already in place for this particular reno you did, I suspect your beam would have been slightly deeper than the existing ceiling as well. Just curious to know how you would have handled that situation. I only see two options, add strapping and drywall to the entire ceiling or live with a bump across the ceiling.
If the beam is lower than the ceiling, your only option is lowering the ceiling to avoid the bump. Ceiling can be lowered by strapping, furring channels, or sistering the existing joist with new joist.
Wow great explanation! Thanx!
Rob this is a very well detailed video, this is my plan with my recently new house me and my family live in. We live in New Zealand and would like to get an idea of house much this might cost, would you have any idea? Cheers mate
Nice work. I'd like to know what floor footing is there to support the flushed beam posts. I know you skipped it over, perhaps somebody else took care of it.
PSL 4x6 posted down to foundation wall
Great video. I have an exposed beam in my basement (approximately 22' span, 3 ply 2x10's) with two screw jacks supporting it in the middle spaced pretty much equally. One end of the beam is on jack studs which stand on the foundation. The other end is buried in a wall but appears to be standing on multiple 2x4's. The other side of that wall is another screw jack. The beam, being in the basement, carries all of the floor joists across it, they are not attached with hangers. I have no issue with the height of the beam but want to be able to remove the two equally spaced screwjacks so I can open up the 20x22 room. Rather than replace the beam, do I have the option of attaching steel plates to either side of the beam, bolting right through it, before removing the jacks ? If so, who do I need to talk to, a structural engineer ?
I’m just about to start this exact process. Awesome video, thanks. I’m wondering how to line up for drilling when packing in the lumber into to steel beam. If the holes come pre-drilled in the steel, how do you line up the wood and drill perfect to the holes?
You bet
pack one side and drill from beam side then pack other side and drill from wood side
You fill in one side, drill, fill in the other side and drill
Nice! I am big believer in steel beams. Yet, why not a 4x8 so the outer wood face is sitting comfy inside the steel instead of that last 2x8 that is barely touching it? I would have felt much better knowing I am not depending on the shear strength of the 1/2 bolts. They are resting a bit but any movement can release then from the steel pocket. An additional perk would have been to continue steel to the floor. LVL is good but is an awful lot of load for two points. I know, it holds, but perhaps is because I live where the ground can dance and one learns to be cautious, especially if so much money was already invested, best to go as safe as possible and cover all angles. Other than that is a great video because you present very well and the takes were very good!.
Hey Rob,
Thanks for all your details - super helpful as someone prepping to do this.
How do you determine if a recessed beam is an option? Currently struggling with a space where it would come down fairly out of the ceiling, but there's both floor joists and roof rafters coming down to where the beam would be.
Consult a knowledgeable contractor or structural engineer