"Nothing makes an expert in any field or endeavor as much as practice and practice again, along with an ongoing commitment to consistency and, learning from one's mistakes and not making them again" - me
Back in 1968 I took a '56 Ford wagon (family car since '57) to a body shop I respected to "have all the rust replaced and put in primer". When I got it back and was starting to do other work on it, I found masking tape sticking out from under body filler inside the drivers side rear door. I started pealing the tape and body filler out to find NO metal had been installed! Just masking tape over the holes and filler on top. I was most willing to pay for METAL to be installed! Since then I started learning how to do my own metal work, etc. Damned proud of the repairs I learned how to do. Most body shops can't afford to do what's needed for a proper repair because the customer won't want to pay for it. And, for 'throwaway cars", that makes sense. Not for a car or truck the owner want's to keep for a very long time.
@@LakesideAutobody True! I've even learned how to do lead work for certain applications. Standard body filler in thicknesses less that 1/8th of an inch will last 'forever' if sealed correctly. And with "USC All-Metal" and Bondo "Bondo-Glass" fiberglass based body fillers, used in some applications, moisture can be negated to ruin work later in the life of the repair. At 69, I'm still doing rust repair for people and metal repairs for myself. Gotta love it to do it! 😁
@@jessejohnson159 With those skills, you can drive almost any car you've ever wanted. Nothing's better than walking in the next day after a paint job dries and unmasking the car. The smell, the shine, the feel of fresh smooth paint. Good times - Happy Holidays
@@LakesideAutobody I also get lot's of satisfaction from doing a near perfect metal repair on older cars and trucks where the repair will last for a very long time. Happy Holidays to you and yours at Lakeside!
As a former auto mechanic/technician/engine builder I appreciate auto body mechanics that take the time to do quality work. I don't have the patience to work on metal body cars. I am pretty good with fiberglass cars.Thanks for the video.
@@LakesideAutobody I just came in from the garage after welding the new pieces of steel in place. Not pretty but with some grinding it is going to be a patch that should last the rest of this truck's life. Forgot to turn on the gas and had the dials wrong but welds turned out better after that. Learning as I go. Thanks.
@@joelongrid7625 That's great to hear. I'm sure they'll be just fine. What are you going to do with the bed - paint it ,.put in a bed liner, spray on bed liner?
thanks for making this video, really helpful. I do heavy fabrication and have been curious how you guys weld on such thin sheet metal, I have an old Volvo that needs some patching and feel confident now about giving it a shot
I have a few good rust hole videos coming up next week so they will probably help you out a lot - Quarter Panel Rust Repair - Front or Back of Wheel. Jerry
Back when I was young, I bought a brand new 1978 Chev van. The front of the hood rotted out something fierce! The dealership body shop repaired it multiple times over the rust warranty period and they filled the area in with lead (which I was totally shocked at!)! I doubt they cut much, if any of the rusted metal out first and then totally repainted the entire hood. I recall pleading with them to just let me buy a new hood and have them paint it. It should have saved a ton of labor! They would not oblige me and just kept repairing until they didn't have to! Being young, I didn't fight them on it. Now I am a crusty old man and would love to take a run at them! LOL Nice job on the video btw!
Yep - today, you wouldn't stand for it. They would probably see it in your eyes and not even challenge you. I think a lot of young people get burned like that - it's a darn shame too 😢
Bondo has proven to hold up just fine , if used correctly like here .... all metal can crack , it’s not as plyable.... thus guy is awesome and cares , it’s clear ....
Lakeside: Just to share, I made a heavy duty trailer about 40 years ago. I used 20 ga. for the flat sided fenders. I didn't have a long sheet bender, and ended up building them in three sections, then brazing the lap joints with a silver alloy solder. That trailer has thousands of miles on it now in all kinds of Ohio weather. Its spent its whole life outside in the elements and those damn fenders have never rusted. They are also strong enough for a man to walk on. Appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
Thank you so much for that story - lots of folks think that somehow a small overlap is going to rust instantly - it doesn't - the whole car is lap welded or pinch welded together at the factory and it lasts a good ten years before any rust starts.
Here's a good video on the truth about lab and butt weld for auto body - ruclips.net/video/JIIonJOVro4/видео.html You'll eventually go with lap for every repair if you do the work long enough - with lap you can fix any rust hole - see the videos coming up on "Extreme Rust Hole Repairs" - right around March 2023
@@tonygoshive785 You're welcome - It's good to be proficient in both butt and lap as you'll certainly use both depending on the situation - nice talking to you :)
I'm not trying to be rude by any means, I just wanted to add that it's a really good idea to push the first coat of body filler down really firm. And pull it in all directions possible to make sure its pressed firmly into any voids around the welds... too, pressing the filler down firm helps to keep shrinkage from showing up so badly around the welded patch areas. And ALWAYS WHEN POSSIBLE...... put epoxy on the backside, and once its dry, scuff it with red scotch brite and put seam sealer over the back side of your patch. This keeps the rust from coming back and also ensuring the body filler wont pop off.
@@LakesideAutobody i have a 1983 dodge b250 that im working on. Ive stopped at a couple bodyshops to get an idea of what it would cost to have them fix 2 separate rust spots.. of the 3 ships I stopped at, 3 of them didnt take me seriously. Basically I was told this isnt a hotrod/muscle car/ collectors car or whatever and its not worth working on. Im building a van thats been in my mind for 20 something years. And im definitely serious. I have money. And I want the work done. The spots that need repair are not difficult to get to. In my novice opinion. They should be pretty common repairs. And easy enuff to do that Ive been contemplating doing it myself. I just cant help thinking that a bodyshop would produce better results and thats what I want.
A man who takes pride in his work! Looks great. Here is a stupid question - is it imperative that you remove that panel from the vehicle before doing work like this?
The best way to repair a rusted panel, cut and weld in new piece of metal. It will last longer than using Bondo fibre filler. Great job. I like your work.
Thank you for this very well done video. I'm wondering if it would be okay if you just spot welded the plate say a dozen times like you did at first and then just work it from there. Would that be okay? I know you're asking why would I want to do that. But just to say if I needed to just use a minimum amount of welding wouldn't that work alright if I filled and shaped it well after that. Thank you for your time.
That would be perfectly fine - that's how we did it most of the time where I worked. I weld it up solid in the videos because I get a lot of negative comments about it... I feel it lasts just as long 'casue it rusts from the bottom up anyway.
I agree! When I weld sheet metal I always seem to get burn through holes. I think all those extra close knit tacks are overkill. As long as the sheet metal is secure. Of course if this were a structural piece or needed to hold fluid that would be a different story.
@Sheps Yep. I've had good luck both ways. Welds right next to each other or leave space. As long as you tap the seam down and fill with either fiberglass reinforced filler or even regular filler you'll be fine. This vid will help on knocking the seams down - ruclips.net/video/lVkg7SgTw30/видео.html
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and creating these videos. Think I can speak for everyone in that we truly appreciate the effort it takes to make videos. Merry Christmas 🎄
This is not great advice. This is shortcuts that do not yield a durable job. Lap welds die quickly of condensate and just start the whole process over again.
Yes indeed your pointers came out great...im doin work on a 66 Mustang Coupe..... quarter panels.....(cut out and replaced both sides)...got small holes in both front fenders near the doors...no sweat.....oh my gosh wish i could send you pics.
Good work. I learnt a couple of things there. What about the rust on the inner wing ? or treatment of the inner wing ? Did you weld the back of the repair to join the gap ?
I purposely left it open but I used to also repair the inner panel too. Leaving it open allows salt water and debris to exit easily and not get trapped. Your choice. I like a solid inner panel but lots of drainage.
marcus w >You are right on the money with you idea. Sheet metal is a different challenge from frames, exhaust and other mechanical task. Unfortunately, the job required makes this drive wheel expensive as the drill the hole in large bar stock, broach the key-way, center it in the chuck and make several passes to achieve a concentric O.D., cut 1/2 of the 0.023”, then cut it loose with a parting tool. Other that, it’s easy. I wish! But, I just wanted to tell you thanks for the excellent idea. Hopefully, I could take my drive wheel into a welding supply and get lucky with something they have or could order. I have shim stock in my tool box down to 0.001” used back on vehicles to go 1 under and 2 under on the other bearing shells. A trick we used in the late 60’s and early 70’s from a 23 Chrysler tech who works 11 years at a speed shop. He and I build his shop behind his house, put one air/oil lift and could close the doors with a school bus and two cars inside. Carl was the nicest man I ever met and has since passed. Auto ASE Master since 78, now retired. Thanks much!
@@deankay4434 Its allways possible to buy another welding machine and sell the old one...or buy an extra. I am from Sweden and I payed 250 usd for ar mig/ mag welder.if you use gas then you skuld have drive wheels produced for solid wire..flux wire wheels has a rougher surface in order to get a better grip. DO NOT hav to much tension on de drive wheels ...when you feed wire perpenedicular to a surface then there should allmoust be slippage on the drive wheels. If not the thinner 0.023 wire tend to buckle near the drive wheels
Dave, I used to work the same as you. This is a get in get out fast an cheap job. Though I am now retired I have gone back to Oxy Acetylene welding, best for dirty rusty metal. An a bit of a breeze does not affect it. Mig is great for beginners working on nice clean new metal. As to Bondo etc, only to be used for filling Dinks.
After the repair is finished - I like to either coat the back with undercoating if I can reach it - If not I squirt some used motor oil inside the panel near the repair which eventually coats everything around the patch like an old valve cover - nice and greasy - never rusting
How about if the repair was a qaurter panel how would you make inside look like it was never a repair. Love the video, and I believe shops will do exactly what you did on video
@@tony1798 On this repair, I cut out the rust on the inner panel and just left it open so that salt water and debris could exit easily. On a customer car or classic car you would repair the inner panel also, undercoat the back and make that look nice too. Hope that answers you ?
Thank goodness I got my vehicle in Texas so it has virtually no rust but I notice you can dang near see through the entire vehicle due to rust holes when they are driven in snowy areas
@@marcushennings9513 Absolutely. Living in the rust belt is tough. The salt used on the roads really mess cars and trucks up - brake lines, fuel lines, tanks, body panels - all take a beating.
I just saw your video for the first time. Excellent! You could be an instructor! I haven't read the comments yet so my next remark may have been answered/commented on. I would like to see how you made the patch. There seemed to be some metal forming and welding just to make that patch. Very interesting... Thank You!
Please direct the viewer to a video fixing this type of damage with your method - ruclips.net/video/36zkc9UQaTs/видео.html or this ruclips.net/video/HiwVTSYFgB4/видео.html also see this video for more information on these types of repairs - ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html
Thanks so much for the support. This really is the standard procedure for rust repair in Michigan body shops. I worked at some very good quality body shops with great reputations and this is how it was done and how they still do it there. There are some shops that use adhesives for certain types of rust repair too. It's good to know every method and use the method that fits the repair and I will be providing those on this channel. Again, glad you liked it and thanks. Have a good weekend. BTW - like the "limestone cowboy" name - good channel too :)
With respect, that's not true. Please watch these 2 short vids - let me know what you think. ruclips.net/video/2o37dX--w0I/видео.html ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html
I drive older cars and trucks I even spray the frame of my 1976 vette and all suspension components the car frame look like new after 38 years .Also own a 1992 tracker 4x4 looks like new oil it annually driven in rust belt ,only draw back is if you need to weld
As a body,paint guy myself.Its 150 dollars labor for repair and spot paint,plus 100 bucks material.but many professional shops charge 500 bucks for this same repair.
That's all you can do is check for OSHA violations. This is a great video and we appreciate people sharing this, use your OSHA violation detector in your own shop. I do what I do at my shop you do what you do at your shop but you don't need to go around making sure everybody's OSHA compliant for Pete's sake
Nice, easy explanation. What would you do on the underside of the lip to keep water from rusting it out. Would do more welding or some sort of sealer? Thanks Ray
You shouldn't be spreading body filler over bare metal. Should at least use metal etching primer over steel. That repair patch should be butt welded to fender with weldable primer underneath.
Absolute Baloney ! A thick layer of body filler is as good as High Build Primer, and there is no logic to applying filler on top of primer when better adhesion is guaranteed onto bare metal ! Primer is alleged to be hygroscopic, and Body Filler is not !
Please see this video for longevity of this type of repair if done correctly: ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html or ruclips.net/video/2o37dX--w0I/видео.html It really is the best method and the only practical way to do it. Metal is only 6 hairs thick so you can't be trying to metal finish patches with a grinder - you'll end up with paper thin welds and adjacent metal. Hope that helps :)
@@PaulDali009 You have to knock the metal joint down and fill it with filler. Also at the point where the patch overlaps, seems like a natural place to accumulate more rust, cause the metal is lapped. Ever notice a door skin where its lapped at the bottom from the factory, there is always rust.
It's your choice really. My philosophy is this: New quarters, rockers, door skins are all installed with lap or plug welds. The auto industry uses 5000 welds on average per car and none of them are butt welds. If a new car lasts 10 years driving in salt water so will a lap welded repair if done right. Plus, there's not a rust hole out there that can't be fixed easily with a combo of butt and lap. You'd spend way too much time grinding the welds flush on really big rust repairs and I know you'd end up with paper thin welds and paper thin adjacent sheet metal. One more thing - It wouldn't fly in a body shop and you would soon be let go for being slow, wasting discs, and looking crazy trying to butt weld stuff. Really! pls see this vid - ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html
Lakeside Autobody If its a crappy beater car I get it, but a proper rust repair should be butt welded. I get what you say about time to grind welds flush and yes it’s time consuming and yes the adjacent metal can get thin if you are not good. I guess I’m just in the restoration mindset where lap welding patch panels is not acceptable.
@@stricht8 With respect, how can you guarantee the thickness of your work after you grind it flush. I promise there is paper thin areas in the welds and the adjacent metal. No one's a robot welder. Plus, I never see you guys fix anything bigger than a 2x2 inch perfect square, you never show the back side, or the whole process like you're hiding something (filler, primer etc) I know what the back of a lap repair looks like - 22 gauge metal. Would you butt weld a new rocker panel, quarter panel, or door skin on? Heck no - it's all lap. So lap weld here yet butt weld there - ???? Nice talking with you - Jerry
On holes like that I've always put the piece behind and run the "puddle" into the factory, usually thinner gauge. Guess it doesn't matter, looks good. Can't beat the smell of bondo!
This is how a untrained on the side guy might do a patch ,it's NOT how QUALITY shops would ever patch a panel . Weld it 100% tigh to keep moisture from getting to the back , ten use water tight marine filler first ., Never lap on the outside of a panel ,if you can't fit it to make quality butt welds , put it inside the panel
See these videos for information on why the highest quality Michigan/Detroit area body shops use this method: ruclips.net/video/JIIonJOVro4/видео.html *** Also see Eastwood’s explanation: ruclips.net/video/rpH50kh4W00/видео.html *** For longevity of this type of repair see: ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html
I don't know what you at lakeside auto body seen in your Eastwood demo , but it sure looks like a nice but weld with an edge bent in it with the special vise grips. Again as I said if it's actually welded with correct penetration then when it's ground down the weld is not compromised ,the weld is actually still thicker then the material you welded because the is penetrated reinforcement on the back side still. If the back side of the weld doesn't look like the front side it really isn't welded correctly. If you have a piece of sheet metal lapped on top of a panel that spot will always be to high unless you beat the whole area down and fill like crazy with Bondo.
@@billpickelheimer8142 For longevity of this type of repair see: ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html Honestly you won't find larger body shops butt welding patch panels - that's more of a tv/magazine thing because they want people to believe that cars are fixed w/o filler in the "best shops"
Quick question l like the idea of welding the patch in,sometimes a person isn't able to seal from the back side and after a short while l end up getting water bubbles under the paint, how do you seal behind to keep moisture out? Thank you for the great video 👍
First - do you knock the patch down? If not, it will likely fail. Another thing you can do is make sure your welds are right next to each other - no space between. Allow for drainage even if you have to drill or cut slots or something. Finally after the repair try this if you can't seal the back side with undercoat or paint - ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html Let me know if any of that helps :)
Thanks so much learned about taping body lines feather fill... Appreciated might be Trying to restore 41 Dodge Command car it is rough will need to weld hood hinge on fabricate trunk lid straighten frame on front driver side...but think it's worth restoring is little monetary but think I will learn a lot restoring it...thanks hope your well have super day !
Thanks for going slow and explaining yourself. Most folks just rip through a video and it all sounds like another language. IM getting in to this welding because my 1975 Maverick has some rust holes around the wheel wells just small ones. I want to learn how to do minor patches as you showed here. Thanks again its helping me. Do you have a welder you would recommend that you would recommend that isnt too expensive. thanks
You're welcome - I've always used Miller but If It was me, and I was on a budget, I would try one from Harbor Freight - If it works... great, If not I'd take it back and get a Miller or Lincoln. Make sure you use gas and check this video out for more help - ruclips.net/video/1BYqLM_mY1s/видео.html
Great video. Would you ever use a die grinder with a sanding disc on it for those tricky to sand spots, or would you typically stick with the sanding blocks?
most guys I worked with used just two blocks - the 5" rubber block and a long board. Both used the same paper that comes on a roll. Body shops provided board paper and DA paper - that's it. You can use anything that works for you though :)
This was done with a MILLER MILLERMATIC 90 - 110v, .023" wire, 75/25 mix gas on 20 cfh, wire speed on 35, heat or volts on 2 (out of 4). If you have more ?s - just ask :)
not bad, not bad! I have been doing body work off & on for close to 40 years. so I have seen & done quite a bit over the years. may I make a suggestion, when you do your overlap welding, instead of holding mig gun stationary, try to use it like a TIG where you walk the cup, but start weld on 1 piece & as you roll hand you finish on other piece of metal, the weld will be a hair wider, but a 2-3 second weld without a chance of burning through, I dont even think about it, but someone recently noticed how I do it so easily & saw and commented to me. as for butt welds, it depends on what customer specifies, but I have done it, but uncommon except in small sections where it has to be done. sometimes it cant be avoided. but my welder I could lay a bead on edge of thin metal. & if you want to improve your welds? get a new custom MIG gun made to fit your welder, talk to guys at USA welds, you will not believe the difference, as well as upgrade to a bronze ground clamp, those 2 simple modifications make a good welder a great welder. now to keep it from rusting out, seam seal back side, or body cavity wax, & of course weldable primer to help combat future corrosion issues.
I like your thinking and good tips. I always used real nice welders in the body shops that I worked in and yes they are better but 220 and quite expensive. Got a boy in college right now and a bunch of other things going on that take priority :)
@@LakesideAutobody I understand the priority's, here is what happened at shop I work at, I took a "junk" china welder I bought used from a friend to use in building I work in, I work in a small enclosed carport he had as his first shop beside his home & I have keys & can come & go as I please around my main job, I got welder just to spot weld parts to then take to main shop to do normal welding. under 100 feet away, after fixing my welder, I now do majority of welding at shop with my welder, & since I had basically nothing in the welder I had gave friend $100 for it, the cart & a 135 CF bottle, I spent a little seeing if I could make it better, around $200 & it is a 110V machine, made by Blue Demon, its a 135M, I did the MIG gun & the bronze clamp, I use a Harbor Freight cheap argon / CO2 gauge with automotive Vacuum hose for my hose, lol, & I would put it against any welder for sheet metal work, & only sheet metal work its pushing it to do is like a frame horn, but the trigger is awesome on the USA weld MIG gun. I have a Lincoln 180 MIG at home, but this was just something I bought to make life more convenient at friends shop, so about $110 for MIG gun? $15 for welding clamp at Harbor Freight, $30 for regulator, & shop supplies welding wire & gas, & I like Washington Allow .023 wire ER70S-6 I forget how much hose cost, but a few feet of 1/8" & thats not normal, but that is what my friend uses on his Snap On welder a YA212A & its cheap enough, works well & we only use 15ish CFM & not had any issues with vacuum hose in many years, so I used it for mine, lol my goal is to start to build a my own body shop & a welding truck, already been working on the truck, & my house is paid for next year, & will start building me a shop so I can be my own boss instead of working for other people.
@@randymack1782 Good luck to you my friend - I hope it works for you. Every town needs a good body shop. One that doesn't shy away from the tough jobs too
Do you have to paint/prime/protect the backside of the welded area to prevent rust? Does the heat from welding make the metal more susceptible to rusting?
Could you make a video on the specifics of using bondo and getting the seam to disappear? I've tried multiple tests with scrap metal and pieces of fenders pulled from the junkyard. There is always a noticeable dip or inconsistency in the seam that I can't work out. Would switching to a finer filler at this stage benefit me?
Don't switch - use regular filler. I will be doing a bunch of rust repair vids coming up and will surely address that. For now though this might help - ruclips.net/video/rv0uB-ZvrFo/видео.html Tap your seam down and follow this video exactly to hide the seam. Keep asking ?s my friend - you'll get this for sure :)
You do not have to put anything over bare metal before spreading filler. It may help though on the back side. Usually (if I can get to the back) I'll sand blast it back there and hit it with good rubberized undercoating - that seals it real well.
There's no advantage to priming before filling unless you are going to leave it outside in the elements for years. Body shops don't prime before filling as they know that the paint is the ultimate sealer of everything underneath. Again if you are going to leave bare metal exposed for a long time then OK - hit it with some epoxy primer or even regular primer. See this vid for more on that - ruclips.net/video/zGHxBr_LpzM/видео.html
I think it would help but sheet metal can expand pretty fast and you may get a bit of buckling between the clamps. Every situation is a bit different so as long as you monitor it while you're welding you'll be fine. Weld till you see a bit of distortion and back off. Jerry
What if you have a round rust hole? What if you come to an edge of a wheel well - just sort or stuff it up in there? What if you run into a pinch weld at the bottom of a rocker panel. That's a good thought but it doesn't work most of the time. Learn one good way and do it the same every time - you'll get good that way. This is how it's done in professional shops and there's good reason for it. See these videos for information on why the highest quality Michigan/Detroit area body shops use this method: ruclips.net/video/JIIonJOVro4/видео.html *** Also see Eastwood’s explanation: ruclips.net/video/rpH50kh4W00/видео.html *** For longevity of this type of repair see: ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html
@@LakesideAutobody I really don't know what you're talking about, i was a panel beater when we used to use lead as a filler before bog came in, so i think i know what im talking about too. Im not sure you understood what i said. My way worked every time, and the panel welded is always under the main panel.
Absolutely, i couldn't believe the guy here was putting the patch on the OUTSIDE. I almost always butt weld , to avoid moisture traps, but if I lap, I put the patch inside.
Body shops today also have a silicon bronze welders or welders that have encapsulated welds which means the back side of the weld is exactly the same as the front so you can bit weld and grind exactly smooth and use less filler and save way more time just a thought to look into that type welder encapsulated weld
This is what I do on my own cars - ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html When working (retired 2016) we used 3M rubberized undercoating and made sure the panel could drain and stay dry.
Thank god we have a guy showing people how to do it right on youtube! The only thing I do differently myself is have a layer of primer sealer between the raw metal and the filler, because typically "bondo" < wich never ever use bondo btw, I'm just using that brand name because people know what it is. Typically plastic body fillers (bondo) absorb water, and rust out underneath.. Unless he's using something like a fiberglass or aluminium filler that can have waterproofing characteristics built into them... Pay attention to the type of filler is all I'm saying, but to play it safe just prime the panel prior to applying filler. Otherwise you might see a bubble in a year or two after you re-did it. I Hope this guy puts out videos on how to repair floor panels properly, drilling spot welds and replacing panels properly.. I see way too many cars where people just fiberglass over the rust lol STOP doing that people. please. Its making my plasma cutter work too hard when I come across other peoples work.
Make sure the panel can drain and dry out inside - that's why it rusted in the first place - got clogged with debris and salt water sat in there and did its work. Here's a vid that my help answer your ? - ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html
Will this prevent rust from coming again? I saw a used car that i like but has some rust bubbles under the paint on door rims, and i read somewhere that even after you fix rust it will come back again. How accurate is this? And do you think i should get the car or it is not worth it?
If this is done correctly it will last longer than you have the car - see vid - ruclips.net/video/idrLzsz2eLg/видео.html That being said, I wouldn't buy anything with rust. Look underneath - if it's rusty and crusty, that means rusted brake lines, fuel lines, etc. No mechanic want to work on rust buckets and it will cost you.
Fantastic video, thank you! I am in the middle of trying (and failing) to finish welds on a door panel I tried to butt weld. I'm sure better welders than I could complete the weld, but I'm pretty close to giving up. I will try this lap weld method next time. Fortunately, it's on a truck that really doesn't have a lot of value so experimentation won't hurt anything.
Honestly my friend, nobody butt welds and metal finishes major rust damage in production body shops (metro Detroit area) - it's impractical and an inferior repair too because no one can guarantee the weld is solid (water tight) - period. Then aggressively grind the weld flush and claim to metal finish it. That basically leaves paint and primer bridging over pin holes. See this video by Eastwood about why you should not butt weld - ruclips.net/video/rpH50kh4W00/видео.html Glad this video could help - this is how it's done in Michigan body shops if they will even take on the job. Jerry
@@LakesideAutobody . . . nobody . . . real body shop . . . Nothing like overstatement to stir the pot. Your method is good and works for you in your shop with your expectations. Defending it by minimizing anyone who successfully welds differently in their REAL shop on their projects by saying they are a nobody shrinks you. You, in your own comments on this video specify that you work on thin metal modern cars in a production shop. Why not say this works for you in your shop and there are others who in their shop do differently and also succeed? Tell why you do it without sweeping statements about "nobody" and "real" shops. Both work, and there are other ways to do lap welds. Your method works well for you in your shop with your requirements and meets or exceeds your client's expectations. No need to say 'en garde' to the internet. Great content, would be better without the superiority statements.
@@timrich6755 I changed the wording a bit - thanks, you have a point. I say nobody to protect those kids or young guys who want to actually get a job doing this. Really - truthfully. You honestly would actually be laughed out of the shops I worked in here in metro Detroit and surrounding suburban areas. There is no reason to hide truth or mislead students and kids trying to really learn. Butt welding and metal finishing (rust repairs) just simply does not happen in high volume, regular body shops. It does happen in elsewhere - like specialty shops where guys don't want any filler and longevity is last on the list - that's not reality or getting a job doing this. Not being arrogant or thoughtless, just don't want to mislead folks that really want to learn. You can always butt weld and metal finish at home but not in a "collision" shop. I don't know how else to say "real" body shop - like one that you make a living at. Collison shop, dealership body shop, etc. Hope that clears things up or helps you to understand why I made those blanket statements - if not let me know - no big deal :)
You are a natural teacher. Thank you for sharing your skills so clearly and so well focused. This is one of the best how-to videos I have seen period.
Thank you so much - I appreciate that. Glad you enjoyed this video and I hope to upload many more. Have a good week Lee :)
Agreed
"Nothing makes an expert in any field or endeavor as much as practice and practice again, along with an ongoing commitment to consistency and, learning from one's mistakes and not making them again" - me
What kind of Bondo do you use
Yep agreed🤘
Back in 1968 I took a '56 Ford wagon (family car since '57) to a body shop I respected to "have all the rust replaced and put in primer". When I got it back and was starting to do other work on it, I found masking tape sticking out from under body filler inside the drivers side rear door. I started pealing the tape and body filler out to find NO metal had been installed! Just masking tape over the holes and filler on top. I was most willing to pay for METAL to be installed! Since then I started learning how to do my own metal work, etc. Damned proud of the repairs I learned how to do. Most body shops can't afford to do what's needed for a proper repair because the customer won't want to pay for it. And, for 'throwaway cars", that makes sense. Not for a car or truck the owner want's to keep for a very long time.
That story right there is what gave bondo a bad name. If done right it can last as long as a new panel. Great story!
@@LakesideAutobody True! I've even learned how to do lead work for certain applications. Standard body filler in thicknesses less that 1/8th of an inch will last 'forever' if sealed correctly. And with "USC All-Metal" and Bondo "Bondo-Glass" fiberglass based body fillers, used in some applications, moisture can be negated to ruin work later in the life of the repair. At 69, I'm still doing rust repair for people and metal repairs for myself. Gotta love it to do it! 😁
@@jessejohnson159 With those skills, you can drive almost any car you've ever wanted. Nothing's better than walking in the next day after a paint job dries and unmasking the car. The smell, the shine, the feel of fresh smooth paint. Good times - Happy Holidays
@@LakesideAutobody I also get lot's of satisfaction from doing a near perfect metal repair on older cars and trucks where the repair will last for a very long time. Happy Holidays to you and yours at Lakeside!
I've never seen anyone doing this close up, thank you.
You're welcome
I showed this video to my 12 year old son so he could see what him and I were about to do to my 97 Silverado. Awesome explanation and camera work. 👍
That's good to hear Robert. I you or your son have any ?s feel free to ask. Have a great week :)
One of the best videos I've found, simple and directly to the point !
Thank you !
You're welcome - glad you enjoyed it :)
I like seeing other people different style of body work great video! Glad you kept it simple!
I'm glad you appreciate that - there's a lot of good ways to fix things this is just one.
As a former auto mechanic/technician/engine builder I appreciate auto body mechanics that take the time to do quality work. I don't have the patience to work on metal body cars. I am pretty good with fiberglass cars.Thanks for the video.
You're welcome - glad you enjoyed it - happy holidays
Not only are you an excellent teacher, you are a skilled artist too. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for the kind words Pigeye - you're welcome too :)
“And I add a little filler up here, I don’t know why but whatever.” That is my attitude with most of my projects hahaha. Awesome video! Subscribed.
Thanks so much - glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for subbing :)
Well, he knew why he was applying the filler there - there was a low spot. He just didn't know why there was a low spot there is all.
I need to patch the front bed floor corners in my 2005 F-150. Yours is the first video that has given me the confidence to go after it. Thank you.
You're welcome - let me know how it goes. Jerry
@@LakesideAutobody I just came in from the garage after welding the new pieces of steel in place. Not pretty but with some grinding it is going to be a patch that should last the rest of this truck's life. Forgot to turn on the gas and had the dials wrong but welds turned out better after that. Learning as I go. Thanks.
@@joelongrid7625 That's great to hear. I'm sure they'll be just fine. What are you going to do with the bed - paint it ,.put in a bed liner, spray on bed liner?
thanks for making this video, really helpful. I do heavy fabrication and have been curious how you guys weld on such thin sheet metal, I have an old Volvo that needs some patching and feel confident now about giving it a shot
I have a few good rust hole videos coming up next week so they will probably help you out a lot - Quarter Panel Rust Repair - Front or Back of Wheel. Jerry
Same here going through rust repair on my old Volvo too!
I got an 05 Volvo S40 that has a damaged qt panel need to repair too! Will try welding with flux core
@@amthevision8931 NO no no. Flux core is for heavier metals
Appreciate your videos! Even after 30 years of work, I learned a couple of tricks.
I appreciate that Nickolas - enjoy the weekend :)
Cake decorators make the best bondo applicators.
Back when I was young, I bought a brand new 1978 Chev van. The front of the hood rotted out something fierce! The dealership body shop repaired it multiple times over the rust warranty period and they filled the area in with lead (which I was totally shocked at!)! I doubt they cut much, if any of the rusted metal out first and then totally repainted the entire hood. I recall pleading with them to just let me buy a new hood and have them paint it. It should have saved a ton of labor! They would not oblige me and just kept repairing until they didn't have to! Being young, I didn't fight them on it. Now I am a crusty old man and would love to take a run at them! LOL Nice job on the video btw!
Yep - today, you wouldn't stand for it. They would probably see it in your eyes and not even challenge you. I think a lot of young people get burned like that - it's a darn shame too 😢
I prefer to splice in and but weld the seam, I also use short strand fiberglass over the weld area before I fill.
I agree short strand is good to get a level area , and Less bondo .... but here this guy is using no more than 1/8 of an inch likely
Great work, I really enjoy the videos. You do practical repairs that don't break the bank and will last for years.
Thanks, feels good to keep the cost down for sure.
FordTorino70 we
The use of All metal over the patch is much better than filler...reduces the amount of filler ised
It's stronger too doesn't breath moisture like standard filler
But I really like lead instead of the standard fillers and all metal for skim coating
Bondo has proven to hold up just fine , if used correctly like here .... all metal can crack , it’s not as plyable.... thus guy is awesome and cares , it’s clear ....
lol...no one uses that garbage all metal anymore...its garbage
Lakeside: Just to share, I made a heavy duty trailer about 40 years ago. I used 20 ga. for the flat sided fenders. I didn't have a long sheet bender, and ended up building them in three sections, then brazing the lap joints with a silver alloy solder. That trailer has thousands of miles on it now in all kinds of Ohio weather. Its spent its whole life outside in the elements and those damn fenders have never rusted. They are also strong enough for a man to walk on. Appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
Thank you so much for that story - lots of folks think that somehow a small overlap is going to rust instantly - it doesn't - the whole car is lap welded or pinch welded together at the factory and it lasts a good ten years before any rust starts.
I can honestly say: a well done instructional video, that was what I was looking for, Thanks for putting it together for Us DIY Trainees,
You're very welcome - I'll do my best to keep good ones coming.
Except it's the wrong way to do it
@@benolofson9732 explain
Great video and you are amazing ar teaching. I wasn’t convinced when you mentioned lap weld, but could not even tell with the finished product
Here's a good video on the truth about lab and butt weld for auto body - ruclips.net/video/JIIonJOVro4/видео.html You'll eventually go with lap for every repair if you do the work long enough - with lap you can fix any rust hole - see the videos coming up on "Extreme Rust Hole Repairs" - right around March 2023
@@LakesideAutobody thank you :)
@@tonygoshive785 You're welcome - It's good to be proficient in both butt and lap as you'll certainly use both depending on the situation - nice talking to you :)
I'm not trying to be rude by any means, I just wanted to add that it's a really good idea to push the first coat of body filler down really firm. And pull it in all directions possible to make sure its pressed firmly into any voids around the welds... too, pressing the filler down firm helps to keep shrinkage from showing up so badly around the welded patch areas.
And ALWAYS WHEN POSSIBLE...... put epoxy on the backside, and once its dry, scuff it with red scotch brite and put seam sealer over the back side of your patch.
This keeps the rust from coming back and also ensuring the body filler wont pop off.
Good suggestions.
@@LakesideAutobody ....what town are you located in Michigan?
@@LakesideAutobody i have a 1983 dodge b250 that im working on. Ive stopped at a couple bodyshops to get an idea of what it would cost to have them fix 2 separate rust spots.. of the 3 ships I stopped at, 3 of them didnt take me seriously. Basically I was told this isnt a hotrod/muscle car/ collectors car or whatever and its not worth working on. Im building a van thats been in my mind for 20 something years. And im definitely serious. I have money. And I want the work done. The spots that need repair are not difficult to get to. In my novice opinion. They should be pretty common repairs. And easy enuff to do that Ive been contemplating doing it myself. I just cant help thinking that a bodyshop would produce better results and thats what I want.
Finally somebody who make sense! Well said.
@@whatyoumakeofit6635 Let me guess where they are... middle of the van at the bottom or rocker. Fenders are fine - quarters are fine. Doors - so-so
A man who takes pride in his work! Looks great. Here is a stupid question - is it imperative that you remove that panel from the vehicle before doing work like this?
Sorry about the late reply - you don't have to remove the panel.
You make it look too easy. Thank you for another great video.
You're welcome - Thanks for watching - Happy Holidays
You are very easy to watch and listen too.I learn a lot from you thank you .
Thanks Derrick - that's nice to hear. I appreciate the support my friend. Have a good weekend :)
I learned a few tips and tricks thanks you good video sr!
You're welcome my friend
Me too, and I came here just for that reason, I think even some tips on welding will help a lot.
The best way to repair a rusted panel, cut and weld in new piece of metal. It will last longer than using Bondo fibre filler. Great job. I like your work.
Thanks Super - I'm glad you enjoyed it - have a good week :)
Thank you for this very well done video. I'm wondering if it would be okay if you just spot welded the plate say a dozen times like you did at first and then just work it from there. Would that be okay? I know you're asking why would I want to do that. But just to say if I needed to just use a minimum amount of welding wouldn't that work alright if I filled and shaped it well after that. Thank you for your time.
That would be perfectly fine - that's how we did it most of the time where I worked. I weld it up solid in the videos because I get a lot of negative comments about it... I feel it lasts just as long 'casue it rusts from the bottom up anyway.
I agree! When I weld sheet metal I always seem to get burn through holes. I think all those extra close knit tacks are overkill. As long as the sheet metal is secure. Of course if this were a structural piece or needed to hold fluid that would be a different story.
@Sheps Yep. I've had good luck both ways. Welds right next to each other or leave space. As long as you tap the seam down and fill with either fiberglass reinforced filler or even regular filler you'll be fine. This vid will help on knocking the seams down - ruclips.net/video/lVkg7SgTw30/видео.html
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and creating these videos. Think I can speak for everyone in that we truly appreciate the effort it takes to make videos. Merry Christmas 🎄
Thanks a lot AP - I appreciate the kind words. Merry Christmas to you my friend and Happy New Year :)
Thanks for the great advice and simple video instructions keep building my friend
Thanks - glad you like the simple approach - that's really all I can do. I'll keep them coming - have a great weekend.
This is not great advice. This is shortcuts that do not yield a durable job. Lap welds die quickly of condensate and just start the whole process over again.
We’re on 3 weeks holiday at panel beating college. Miss the workshop that’s why I’m here. Very good content
That's good to hear Kohji - have a good week :)
This is the first time I have seen one of your videos. I had to laugh at the toilet paper in the background 🤣🤣
In case sht happens :)
Toilet paper WAS the cheapest panel cleaning product which didn't leave any lint or residue when used with prepsol.
That toilet paper is likely used in his compressed air filter.
Yes indeed your pointers came out great...im doin work on a 66 Mustang Coupe..... quarter panels.....(cut out and replaced both sides)...got small holes in both front fenders near the doors...no sweat.....oh my gosh wish i could send you pics.
You can and I'd love to see 'em - schoolvideolibrary at gmail - Jerry
Now i expect my eyes to hurt because i looked straight to the flame :)
That is so funny because I thought the same thing when I watched it back while editing. I'm laughing.
@@LakesideAutobody :) For real it's pretty dangerous. . Anyway nice job. I will do with fiberglass because it's easier as a beginner.
I always wear a welding helmet when watching these vids.
Of course, I can't see a damn thing, but I feel much safer.
@@marshalllhiepler :))
not to worry, your computer screen can't emit the level of light that the welding machine is emitting
It's refreshing seeing actual metal work after seeing a bunch of foam and fiberglass tutorial.
Thanks my friend - enjoy the weekend :)
Good work. I learnt a couple of things there.
What about the rust on the inner wing ? or treatment of the inner wing ? Did you weld the back of the repair to join the gap ?
I purposely left it open but I used to also repair the inner panel too. Leaving it open allows salt water and debris to exit easily and not get trapped. Your choice. I like a solid inner panel but lots of drainage.
I prefer to use a butt joint when welding patch panels, less bondo work at the end.
Here's a good video on Butt vs Lap if interested - ruclips.net/video/JIIonJOVro4/видео.html Have a good weekend Darth B 😊
No gloves? This man is a savage
Usually I wear them but for the video it's hard if I have to adjust something quick or get something fast.
Excellent. The tape on the body line is a great idea. Thanks
You're welcome Recharge :)
Nice job. Similar to my fender repair on my caprice. How thick MIG wire do you use 0,023?
.023 - Have a good Thanksgiving
Dam, my welder, tips and drive wheels only go down to 0.30”.
@@deankay4434 it should be possible do machine 0,023 wheels if you have a lathe.. or buy spares..0.023 makes a big difference.. a lot easier to weld
marcus w >You are right on the money with you idea. Sheet metal is a different challenge from frames, exhaust and other mechanical task. Unfortunately, the job required makes this drive wheel expensive as the drill the hole in large bar stock, broach the key-way, center it in the chuck and make several passes to achieve a concentric O.D., cut 1/2 of the 0.023”, then cut it loose with a parting tool.
Other that, it’s easy. I wish!
But, I just wanted to tell you thanks for the excellent idea. Hopefully, I could take my drive wheel into a welding supply and get lucky with something they have or could order. I have shim stock in my tool box down to 0.001” used back on vehicles to go 1 under and 2 under on the other bearing shells. A trick we used in the late 60’s and early 70’s from a 23 Chrysler tech who works 11 years at a speed shop. He and I build his shop behind his house, put one air/oil lift and could close the doors with a school bus and two cars inside. Carl was the nicest man I ever met and has since passed. Auto ASE Master since 78, now retired. Thanks much!
@@deankay4434 Its allways possible to buy another welding machine and sell the old one...or buy an extra. I am from Sweden and I payed 250 usd for ar mig/ mag welder.if you use gas then you skuld have drive wheels produced for solid wire..flux wire wheels has a rougher surface in order to get a better grip. DO NOT hav to much tension on de drive wheels ...when you feed wire perpenedicular to a surface then there should allmoust be slippage on the drive wheels. If not the thinner 0.023 wire tend to buckle near the drive wheels
Thanks for the video. Very informative. I liked the tape suggestion for the body line.
Thanks for watching and have a good week :)
used to butt weld a patch like that with oxy-acetalene , hammer and dolly, shrink, perfect!
Nice - you must have been a darn good oxy-ace welder.
Dave, I used to work the same as you. This is a get in get out fast an cheap job.
Though I am now retired I have gone back to Oxy Acetylene welding, best for dirty rusty metal. An a bit of a breeze does not affect it.
Mig is great for beginners working on nice clean new metal.
As to Bondo etc, only to be used for filling Dinks.
Here in Mississippi they grind out rust, take a gallon of Bondo and start filling. Looks good for about a year if u stay off of gravel roads
How's living in Mississippi?
I can't imagine there would be a great need for rust repairs in Mississippi? You don't get a lot of foul weather there do you?
What about the back side, how do you treat and make sure it dosen't rust from inside
After the repair is finished - I like to either coat the back with undercoating if I can reach it - If not I squirt some used motor oil inside the panel near the repair which eventually coats everything around the patch like an old valve cover - nice and greasy - never rusting
How about if the repair was a qaurter panel how would you make inside look like it was never a repair.
Love the video, and I believe shops will do exactly what you did on video
@@tony1798 On this repair, I cut out the rust on the inner panel and just left it open so that salt water and debris could exit easily. On a customer car or classic car you would repair the inner panel also, undercoat the back and make that look nice too. Hope that answers you ?
Thank goodness I got my vehicle in Texas so it has virtually no rust but I notice you can dang near see through the entire vehicle due to rust holes when they are driven in snowy areas
@@marcushennings9513 Absolutely. Living in the rust belt is tough. The salt used on the roads really mess cars and trucks up - brake lines, fuel lines, tanks, body panels - all take a beating.
I just saw your video for the first time. Excellent! You could be an instructor! I haven't read the comments yet so my next remark may have been answered/commented on. I would like to see how you made the patch. There seemed to be some metal forming and welding just to make that patch. Very interesting... Thank You!
I will do a video on that - there are a few different ways you can match the patch to a curve. Good topic for a video.
@@LakesideAutobody Thanks again! Look forward to video. Your really good!
@@adollarshort1573 Thanks - glad you enjoy them - have a good weekend
Lap welding on exterior body panels is hack work.
Please direct the viewer to a video fixing this type of damage with your method - ruclips.net/video/36zkc9UQaTs/видео.html or this ruclips.net/video/HiwVTSYFgB4/видео.html
also see this video for more information on these types of repairs - ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html
Finally a repair video where someone actually knows what the hell they're doing..thanks for representing the correct way to be a good body man.
Thanks so much for the support. This really is the standard procedure for rust repair in Michigan body shops. I worked at some very good quality body shops with great reputations and this is how it was done and how they still do it there. There are some shops that use adhesives for certain types of rust repair too. It's good to know every method and use the method that fits the repair and I will be providing those on this channel. Again, glad you liked it and thanks. Have a good weekend. BTW - like the "limestone cowboy" name - good channel too :)
great info,new sub!
Glad you like it - thanks
Thank you for this video it really helped me out as I tackle my 1995 gmc on welding technique
Glad it helped - thanks for the comment :)
Much welcome
And within 2-3 yrs its rusted out again...
With respect, that's not true. Please watch these 2 short vids - let me know what you think.
ruclips.net/video/2o37dX--w0I/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html
houseoffire72 oil spray all repairs
@@nickking1510 Absolutely! Works very well - that stuff creeps into every crevice.
I drive older cars and trucks I even spray the frame of my 1976 vette and all suspension components the car frame look like new after 38 years .Also own a 1992 tracker 4x4 looks like new oil it annually driven in rust belt ,only draw back is if you need to weld
Lap welds over bare-ass metal will usually do that! (Rust back out)
Great video came for the airgun use help and really like your talent. Fender looks perfect🎉 subscribed
Thanks for the sub - here's a follow up on this repair 5 years later - ruclips.net/video/idrLzsz2eLg/видео.html
Curious, how much would you charge for this repair and how long do you warranty it? Great vid
As a body,paint guy myself.Its 150 dollars labor for repair and spot paint,plus 100 bucks material.but many professional shops charge 500 bucks for this same repair.
Never give warranty on rust ,there a reason it's call auto motive Cancer ,when you fix it your just buying time
@@filibertobarrera3839 yeah I'd say $500 minimum. Especially in 2022, a lot of the masters are retiring
great video. Love the bucket and toilet paper!
No gloves? His hands must be already leather.
That's all you can do is check for OSHA violations. This is a great video and we appreciate people sharing this, use your OSHA violation detector in your own shop. I do what I do at my shop you do what you do at your shop but you don't need to go around making sure everybody's OSHA compliant for Pete's sake
@@TheeeDannyD You must have woman hands.
i like how he was already almost done with repair but still managed to make the video 13 minutes
Damn ! I got welding flash! 🤨
Nice, easy explanation. What would you do on the underside of the lip to keep water from rusting it out. Would do more welding or some sort of sealer? Thanks Ray
I found this to be the best way to prevent future rust - ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html
You shouldn't be spreading body filler over bare metal. Should at least use metal etching primer over steel. That repair patch should be butt welded to fender with weldable primer underneath.
Your one of those guys ! How do you know that !! … filler over metal has been going on for years and is still going. !!!
They fill any defects over the metal at the factory. I'm sure it's fine
Nasty repair I would kick him out of my shop
Absolute Baloney ! A thick layer of body filler is as good as High Build Primer, and there is no logic to applying filler on top of primer when better adhesion is guaranteed onto bare metal ! Primer is alleged to be hygroscopic, and Body Filler is not !
Also, make sure the metal is graded!!
Nice job. Even the work you did on the patch piece was well done.
Thanks BIll - I appreciate that :)
I really dont believe I would want your shops to do any body work for me. You should not lap metal patches. To much filler then applied.
Please see this video for longevity of this type of repair if done correctly: ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html or
ruclips.net/video/2o37dX--w0I/видео.html
It really is the best method and the only practical way to do it. Metal is only 6 hairs thick so you can't be trying to metal finish patches with a grinder - you'll end up with paper thin welds and adjacent metal. Hope that helps :)
He is not doing a 100k dollar resto he is patching a rust hole. in Michigan they have a lot of them
@@donniedale3522 You seem to not understand the repair...
@@donniedale3522 why shouldn't metal patches be laped and what do you believe?
@@PaulDali009 You have to knock the metal joint down and fill it with filler. Also at the point where the patch overlaps, seems like a natural place to accumulate more rust, cause the metal is lapped. Ever notice a door skin where its lapped at the bottom from the factory, there is always rust.
Thank you for sharing your tallents with mig welding body work
You're welcome Rick - Happy New Year :)
Butt weld the damn thing for Christ sake!
It's your choice really. My philosophy is this: New quarters, rockers, door skins are all installed with lap or plug welds. The auto industry uses 5000 welds on average per car and none of them are butt welds. If a new car lasts 10 years driving in salt water so will a lap welded repair if done right. Plus, there's not a rust hole out there that can't be fixed easily with a combo of butt and lap. You'd spend way too much time grinding the welds flush on really big rust repairs and I know you'd end up with paper thin welds and paper thin adjacent sheet metal. One more thing - It wouldn't fly in a body shop and you would soon be let go for being slow, wasting discs, and looking crazy trying to butt weld stuff. Really! pls see this vid - ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html
Lakeside Autobody If its a crappy beater car I get it, but a proper rust repair should be butt welded. I get what you say about time to grind welds flush and yes it’s time consuming and yes the adjacent metal can get thin if you are not good. I guess I’m just in the restoration mindset where lap welding patch panels is not acceptable.
@@stricht8 With respect, how can you guarantee the thickness of your work after you grind it flush. I promise there is paper thin areas in the welds and the adjacent metal. No one's a robot welder. Plus, I never see you guys fix anything bigger than a 2x2 inch perfect square, you never show the back side, or the whole process like you're hiding something (filler, primer etc) I know what the back of a lap repair looks like - 22 gauge metal. Would you butt weld a new rocker panel, quarter panel, or door skin on? Heck no - it's all lap. So lap weld here yet butt weld there - ???? Nice talking with you - Jerry
On holes like that I've always put the piece behind and run the "puddle" into the factory, usually thinner gauge. Guess it doesn't matter, looks good. Can't beat the smell of bondo!
👍💯🎄😊
This is how a untrained on the side guy might do a patch ,it's NOT how QUALITY shops would ever patch a panel . Weld it 100% tigh to keep moisture from getting to the back , ten use water tight marine filler first ., Never lap on the outside of a panel ,if you can't fit it to make quality butt welds , put it inside the panel
See these videos for information on why the highest quality Michigan/Detroit area body shops use this method: ruclips.net/video/JIIonJOVro4/видео.html *** Also see Eastwood’s explanation: ruclips.net/video/rpH50kh4W00/видео.html *** For longevity of this type of repair see: ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html
Bill, You said what I was about to say. That is not a weld, just a collection of tacks. Very poor workmanship.
I don't know what you at lakeside auto body seen in your Eastwood demo , but it sure looks like a nice but weld with an edge bent in it with the special vise grips. Again as I said if it's actually welded with correct penetration then when it's ground down the weld is not compromised ,the weld is actually still thicker then the material you welded because the is penetrated reinforcement on the back side still. If the back side of the weld doesn't look like the front side it really isn't welded correctly. If you have a piece of sheet metal lapped on top of a panel that spot will always be to high unless you beat the whole area down and fill like crazy with Bondo.
@@billpickelheimer8142 For longevity of this type of repair see: ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html
Honestly you won't find larger body shops butt welding patch panels - that's more of a tv/magazine thing because they want people to believe that cars are fixed w/o filler in the "best shops"
@@deutschedog3259 For longevity of this type of repair see: ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html
Great video. As a beginner would be keen to see the hammering down bit :)
Here's a video on exactly that - ruclips.net/video/lVkg7SgTw30/видео.html
I love watching a master work.
I appreciate your kind words Nick - have a great week :)
Quick question l like the idea of welding the patch in,sometimes a person isn't able to seal from the back side and after a short while l end up getting water bubbles under the paint, how do you seal behind to keep moisture out? Thank you for the great video 👍
First - do you knock the patch down? If not, it will likely fail. Another thing you can do is make sure your welds are right next to each other - no space between. Allow for drainage even if you have to drill or cut slots or something. Finally after the repair try this if you can't seal the back side with undercoat or paint - ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html Let me know if any of that helps :)
Thanks for the video it’s very helpful, I’m wondering if you guys can fix my rear end frame, where the shock connects to the frame?
What's wrong with it?
Okay thanke for this video. I'm currently trying to get this fix and was wondering how they did it.
You're welcome :)
Thanks so much learned about taping body lines feather fill... Appreciated might be Trying to restore 41 Dodge Command car it is rough will need to weld hood hinge on fabricate trunk lid straighten frame on front driver side...but think it's worth restoring is little monetary but think I will learn a lot restoring it...thanks hope your well have super day !
You're welcome Peter - I appreciate the kind words. Have a great day too my friend :)
Thanks for going slow and explaining yourself. Most folks just rip through a video and it all sounds like another language. IM getting in to this welding because my 1975 Maverick has some rust holes around the wheel wells just small ones. I want to learn how to do minor patches as you showed here. Thanks again its helping me. Do you have a welder you would recommend that you would recommend that isnt too expensive. thanks
You're welcome - I've always used Miller but If It was me, and I was on a budget, I would try one from Harbor Freight - If it works... great, If not I'd take it back and get a Miller or Lincoln. Make sure you use gas and check this video out for more help - ruclips.net/video/1BYqLM_mY1s/видео.html
@@LakesideAutobody thanks for your help 👍
@@shogunMR You're welcome
Great video. Would you ever use a die grinder with a sanding disc on it for those tricky to sand spots, or would you typically stick with the sanding blocks?
most guys I worked with used just two blocks - the 5" rubber block and a long board. Both used the same paper that comes on a roll. Body shops provided board paper and DA paper - that's it. You can use anything that works for you though :)
@@LakesideAutobody cool, thanks for the reply.
Great vid thank you! What were your welding settings, wire speed, power setting etc? Thank you!
This was done with a MILLER MILLERMATIC 90 - 110v, .023" wire, 75/25 mix gas on 20 cfh, wire speed on 35, heat or volts on 2 (out of 4). If you have more ?s - just ask :)
Excellent video from start to finish. Thanks for posting !
You're welcome Brian - thanks for watching :)
I'm subscribed. I have to do some extensive repairs on my Chevy K30. Your video gave you some valuable information. 👍
I'm glad you enjoyed it
not bad, not bad! I have been doing body work off & on for close to 40 years. so I have seen & done quite a bit over the years.
may I make a suggestion, when you do your overlap welding, instead of holding mig gun stationary, try to use it like a TIG where you walk the cup, but start weld on 1 piece & as you roll hand you finish on other piece of metal, the weld will be a hair wider, but a 2-3 second weld without a chance of burning through, I dont even think about it, but someone recently noticed how I do it so easily & saw and commented to me.
as for butt welds, it depends on what customer specifies, but I have done it, but uncommon except in small sections where it has to be done. sometimes it cant be avoided. but my welder I could lay a bead on edge of thin metal. & if you want to improve your welds? get a new custom MIG gun made to fit your welder, talk to guys at USA welds, you will not believe the difference, as well as upgrade to a bronze ground clamp, those 2 simple modifications make a good welder a great welder.
now to keep it from rusting out, seam seal back side, or body cavity wax, & of course weldable primer to help combat future corrosion issues.
I like your thinking and good tips. I always used real nice welders in the body shops that I worked in and yes they are better but 220 and quite expensive. Got a boy in college right now and a bunch of other things going on that take priority :)
@@LakesideAutobody I understand the priority's, here is what happened at shop I work at, I took a "junk" china welder I bought used from a friend to use in building I work in, I work in a small enclosed carport he had as his first shop beside his home & I have keys & can come & go as I please around my main job, I got welder just to spot weld parts to then take to main shop to do normal welding. under 100 feet away, after fixing my welder, I now do majority of welding at shop with my welder, & since I had basically nothing in the welder I had gave friend $100 for it, the cart & a 135 CF bottle, I spent a little seeing if I could make it better, around $200 & it is a 110V machine, made by Blue Demon, its a 135M, I did the MIG gun & the bronze clamp, I use a Harbor Freight cheap argon / CO2 gauge with automotive Vacuum hose for my hose, lol, & I would put it against any welder for sheet metal work, & only sheet metal work its pushing it to do is like a frame horn, but the trigger is awesome on the USA weld MIG gun. I have a Lincoln 180 MIG at home, but this was just something I bought to make life more convenient at friends shop, so about $110 for MIG gun? $15 for welding clamp at Harbor Freight, $30 for regulator, & shop supplies welding wire & gas, & I like Washington Allow .023 wire ER70S-6 I forget how much hose cost, but a few feet of 1/8" & thats not normal, but that is what my friend uses on his Snap On welder a YA212A & its cheap enough, works well & we only use 15ish CFM & not had any issues with vacuum hose in many years, so I used it for mine, lol
my goal is to start to build a my own body shop & a welding truck, already been working on the truck, & my house is paid for next year, & will start building me a shop so I can be my own boss instead of working for other people.
@@randymack1782 Good luck to you my friend - I hope it works for you. Every town needs a good body shop. One that doesn't shy away from the tough jobs too
Do you have to paint/prime/protect the backside of the welded area to prevent rust? Does the heat from welding make the metal more susceptible to rusting?
No to both. Here's the best way to prevent future rust - ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html
Could you make a video on the specifics of using bondo and getting the seam to disappear? I've tried multiple tests with scrap metal and pieces of fenders pulled from the junkyard. There is always a noticeable dip or inconsistency in the seam that I can't work out. Would switching to a finer filler at this stage benefit me?
Don't switch - use regular filler. I will be doing a bunch of rust repair vids coming up and will surely address that. For now though this might help - ruclips.net/video/rv0uB-ZvrFo/видео.html Tap your seam down and follow this video exactly to hide the seam. Keep asking ?s my friend - you'll get this for sure :)
Should we use dtm sealer before adding filler? Both sides? Thank you Jerry
You do not have to put anything over bare metal before spreading filler. It may help though on the back side. Usually (if I can get to the back) I'll sand blast it back there and hit it with good rubberized undercoating - that seals it real well.
@@LakesideAutobody Thank you. Truck bed coating good too?
Any advantage to zinc priming before filler? Going to be doing some metal work and want to preserve before I make it to the paint shop.
There's no advantage to priming before filling unless you are going to leave it outside in the elements for years. Body shops don't prime before filling as they know that the paint is the ultimate sealer of everything underneath. Again if you are going to leave bare metal exposed for a long time then OK - hit it with some epoxy primer or even regular primer. See this vid for more on that - ruclips.net/video/zGHxBr_LpzM/видео.html
If you put a backing clamp behind the wheel well, do you have to worry about warping as long as you keep the clamp there till it cools?
I think it would help but sheet metal can expand pretty fast and you may get a bit of buckling between the clamps. Every situation is a bit different so as long as you monitor it while you're welding you'll be fine. Weld till you see a bit of distortion and back off. Jerry
Nice to see it being fixed with proper metal instead of just slapping filler into the holes.
Thanks - I'll do a video in a couple of years on how this truck is holding up. I plan on it being my car towing vehicle.
Thank you so kindly for sharing. Very direct and to the point! Great video!
Thanks - glad you enjoyed it. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I usually get to the questions once or twice a day.
I do mine by fitting patches inside, coat with rust killer then apply filler. Its easier to mould the filler into the correct shape.
Thanks for your input Andy - Happy New Year to you and your family :)
a true artist at work and im learning a lot great video
Thanks - I'm glad I can share it - Happy Holidays
I like the tape line idea . Thank you
You’re welcome 😊
The new way is using a bronze welder less heat used does a really nice job
Thanks for the tip - I'll have to check it out.
@@LakesideAutobody silicon bronze wire is what you want to use.😊
I like to thank you for the video and sharing with us ,good job,well done and explained 👍👍👍👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸
Thanks 👍 I appreciate the kind words Hector - have a good weekend my friend :)
Would have been better if you cut length so as to slide sheet in under fender, that gives you room to fill it in without having to hit repair down.
What if you have a round rust hole? What if you come to an edge of a wheel well - just sort or stuff it up in there? What if you run into a pinch weld at the bottom of a rocker panel. That's a good thought but it doesn't work most of the time. Learn one good way and do it the same every time - you'll get good that way. This is how it's done in professional shops and there's good reason for it. See these videos for information on why the highest quality Michigan/Detroit area body shops use this method: ruclips.net/video/JIIonJOVro4/видео.html *** Also see Eastwood’s explanation: ruclips.net/video/rpH50kh4W00/видео.html *** For longevity of this type of repair see: ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html
@@LakesideAutobody I really don't know what you're talking about, i was a panel beater when we used to use lead as a filler before bog came in, so i think i know what im talking about too. Im not sure you understood what i said. My way worked every time, and the panel welded is always under the main panel.
Absolutely, i couldn't believe the guy here was putting the patch on the OUTSIDE. I almost always butt weld , to avoid moisture traps, but if I lap, I put the patch inside.
Body shops today also have a silicon bronze welders or welders that have encapsulated welds which means the back side of the weld is exactly the same as the front so you can bit weld and grind exactly smooth and use less filler and save way more time just a thought to look into that type welder encapsulated weld
I'll check it out, thanks. A lot of shops are using panel adhesive too but I have real good luck with this method. Have a great weekend.
Awesome job, can’t wait to get started on my project
Thanks - let me know how it goes for you :)
Now I'm watching all your videos. It's going to be a late night!
That's funny - hopefully you don't work Saturdays - Have a great weekend :)
What are you using for undercoating/body wax and how are you applying?
This is what I do on my own cars - ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html When working (retired 2016) we used 3M rubberized undercoating and made sure the panel could drain and stay dry.
Thank god we have a guy showing people how to do it right on youtube! The only thing I do differently myself is have a layer of primer sealer between the raw metal and the filler, because typically "bondo" < wich never ever use bondo btw, I'm just using that brand name because people know what it is. Typically plastic body fillers (bondo) absorb water, and rust out underneath.. Unless he's using something like a fiberglass or aluminium filler that can have waterproofing characteristics built into them... Pay attention to the type of filler is all I'm saying, but to play it safe just prime the panel prior to applying filler. Otherwise you might see a bubble in a year or two after you re-did it. I Hope this guy puts out videos on how to repair floor panels properly, drilling spot welds and replacing panels properly.. I see way too many cars where people just fiberglass over the rust lol STOP doing that people. please. Its making my plasma cutter work too hard when I come across other peoples work.
Thanks, glad you like the videos :)
@@LakesideAutobody Your welcome, and of course keep up the good work.
Hi Michigan brother! For body work, I would think the Mig is gas shielded.?? I didn't see any splatter. Nice job, easy to understand.
Yes - that was a Miller Millermatic 90 w/ .023 wire, gas. Yeah MI! Boo Michigan sports :( Lions:( TIgers:( Pistons :( Red Wings :(
What about the rust behind.
Make sure the panel can drain and dry out inside - that's why it rusted in the first place - got clogged with debris and salt water sat in there and did its work. Here's a vid that my help answer your ? - ruclips.net/video/8XaZBy7GC7A/видео.html
Would a fiberglass repair last just as long vs welded patch?
It can if the panel can drain and dry out inside. No moisture = no rust 😊😊
Thank you for your video. You make it looks so easy.
You're welcome - glad you enjoyed it. Have a good week :)
Will this prevent rust from coming again? I saw a used car that i like but has some rust bubbles under the paint on door rims, and i read somewhere that even after you fix rust it will come back again. How accurate is this? And do you think i should get the car or it is not worth it?
If this is done correctly it will last longer than you have the car - see vid - ruclips.net/video/idrLzsz2eLg/видео.html That being said, I wouldn't buy anything with rust. Look underneath - if it's rusty and crusty, that means rusted brake lines, fuel lines, etc. No mechanic want to work on rust buckets and it will cost you.
@LakesideAutobody thank you for your reply
Just a tip..... I like keeping a air hose with a blow nozzle to cool off the weld
Good tip. Good to put out small fires too :)
@@LakesideAutobody yes lol
Fantastic video, thank you! I am in the middle of trying (and failing) to finish welds on a door panel I tried to butt weld. I'm sure better welders than I could complete the weld, but I'm pretty close to giving up. I will try this lap weld method next time. Fortunately, it's on a truck that really doesn't have a lot of value so experimentation won't hurt anything.
Honestly my friend, nobody butt welds and metal finishes major rust damage in production body shops (metro Detroit area) - it's impractical and an inferior repair too because no one can guarantee the weld is solid (water tight) - period. Then aggressively grind the weld flush and claim to metal finish it. That basically leaves paint and primer bridging over pin holes. See this video by Eastwood about why you should not butt weld - ruclips.net/video/rpH50kh4W00/видео.html Glad this video could help - this is how it's done in Michigan body shops if they will even take on the job. Jerry
@@LakesideAutobody . . . nobody . . . real body shop . . . Nothing like overstatement to stir the pot. Your method is good and works for you in your shop with your expectations. Defending it by minimizing anyone who successfully welds differently in their REAL shop on their projects by saying they are a nobody shrinks you. You, in your own comments on this video specify that you work on thin metal modern cars in a production shop. Why not say this works for you in your shop and there are others who in their shop do differently and also succeed? Tell why you do it without sweeping statements about "nobody" and "real" shops.
Both work, and there are other ways to do lap welds. Your method works well for you in your shop with your requirements and meets or exceeds your client's expectations. No need to say 'en garde' to the internet.
Great content, would be better without the superiority statements.
@@timrich6755 I changed the wording a bit - thanks, you have a point. I say nobody to protect those kids or young guys who want to actually get a job doing this. Really - truthfully. You honestly would actually be laughed out of the shops I worked in here in metro Detroit and surrounding suburban areas. There is no reason to hide truth or mislead students and kids trying to really learn. Butt welding and metal finishing (rust repairs) just simply does not happen in high volume, regular body shops. It does happen in elsewhere - like specialty shops where guys don't want any filler and longevity is last on the list - that's not reality or getting a job doing this. Not being arrogant or thoughtless, just don't want to mislead folks that really want to learn. You can always butt weld and metal finish at home but not in a "collision" shop. I don't know how else to say "real" body shop - like one that you make a living at. Collison shop, dealership body shop, etc. Hope that clears things up or helps you to understand why I made those blanket statements - if not let me know - no big deal :)