A very good, clear and usefull review, this is how you can really choose new, better garments for your climbing and other outdoors adventures. More of this please! Greetings from cold and wet Holland.
Considering the environment I intend to use a jacket like this and when, mid Europe to Scottish Highlands, I wonder if this jacket has enough protection for damp conditions ? Obviously I wouldn't expect to use this in pouring rain in the Highlands, but I would like it to cope with the odd short shower or mist without having to immediately dive for an outer layer, that's one thing that worries me about this jacket, another thing is I've seen reviews where it is said it's not the best at keeping wind out. I'm currently considering this an option for me based on the reputation this brand has for quality and obviously the looks, also the fact that I'm willing to accept a heavier jacket for harder wearing then an ultra light easily damaged jacket, the problem is that I'm looking at the "Rab Infinity Alpine" and it just appears to me that it's way better specs for the conditions I intend to use the jacket for, the Rab seems to be treated for the elements far better, the only thing being the material is not as tough as the Thorium, also I have seen from so many reviews that Arc'teryx quality is a good step up from Rab, so many people say the gear from Rab has gone down in quality a lot and their guarantee is not the way it used to be. As you can probably read by now, I'm in a bit of a dilemma.... the Rab ticks the boxes more for all the things it needs to do, but at the same time I'm attracted to get into the world of Arc'teryx which I read so many times is the absolute best quality. I'm curious to hear if you have any opinions on my dilemma ? Cheers 👊
I’ve got the new Proton and absolutely love it. My one gripe would be that I wish it had pit zips. Wore it up a route and once the sun came out it got pretty toasty, half unzipping wasn’t enough, I ended up taking it off and hanging it on a quickdraw, grabbing it on my way down. I’m sure as the temps continue to drop that won’t be an issue, and maybe I just like pit zips, but it would have made this jacket (in my opinion) perfect.
It's annoying how oblivious people are to the inherent cruelty of down. The feathers are often ripped out of the birds while they are alive. First of all, I don't understand how people could say that isn't cruel. Cruel is an understatement, imo... Companies like Patagonia claim to source down "cruelty-free", but this basically just means that the birds are killed before the plucking occurs. In what universe is killing a living animal free of cruelty? You would have to completely disregard the animal's life, which I understand lots of people do, but I think it is inherently just wrong. The level of unawareness surrounding this issue is honestly astounding. Down products are touted in such a mainstream fashion that they are even discussed in Climbing Daily videos. Not only that, but in the most ironic way possible - having the video titled the way it is illustrates a profound level of tone-deafness on the issue. This comment is not meant to be a diss on Climbing Daily, but just a reaction to a generally poignant example of how deeply society neglects animals.
Down is not inherently cruel. The rest to the the bird is used for something and it's the nature of the world is that animals get eaten by other animals. Are you going to make polar bears and lions and dogs vegetarian because they eat other animals and thats cruel? Why don't you focus on something more useful that could be stopped like environmental destruction that kills lots of animals every year or the inequality in the human world and wars that kill and maim thousands every year.
@@ackmartin60 animals are not enslaved by other animals. Environmental destruction is very closely related to the view that you share that we are superior to other species and we have the right to enslave and eat them. Your point that animals eat animals might be fair if we ate animals that we actually kill but we don't do this, we delegate other people to do it. We are simply not capable to kill what we eat, so we resort to enslaving millions of animals to eat them and exploit them, then we use the excuse that "animals kill other animals" to feb better with ourselves.
@@ErasmusLocke would you be ok with a loved one being locked in a luxury hotel, not able to walk away, while other people come every month and forcefully cut their hair? That would be very responsible but still slavery. There's nothing responsible in enslaving an animal for our consumption.
@@danialkashin234 as this video is about arteryx insulated jackets that's the main thing I'm referring to. I think their shell jackets are very good quality but not good value. My main issue with their insulated jackets are that they charge extreme prices for lesser quality insulation. Coreloft is outperformed by primaloft in many tests. Climashield apex is miles better than both with warmth per weight higher than down in super light jackets (this is due to baffle construction adding weight and sewn through baffles being weak points, this isn't true for much warmer jackets with boxed baffles). For their prices I'd expect the best of the best and that isn't what you get in their synthetic jackets. They also withhold the denier count on their ripstop products which is extremely important information for anyone trying to save weight, and if you need a lightweight insulated jacket then you absolutely do care about weight. For their down products, most of them use 750fp down which is what I'd expect to get from decathlon or a budget jacket from a mainstream brand, not from one of the most expensive brands out there (the decathlon trek 100 has 800fp down and that costs £50!). Some of their ~£800 jackets still only have 850fp down which is a bit better but still far from the best. TLDR: high end prices for midrange specs
A next-gen Proton should have 1/2 the insulation removed in the armpit area and then it will be perfect. I've actually thought of slicing the armpits and sewing in velcro - or coming up with a similar type of solution
@@ErasmusLocke I know the 'standard', but it includes still the unnecessary use and killing of animals. Down feathers belong on geese not in peoples jackets. The whole system evolves around breeding, killing and plucking birds - if this is no violence, i don't know what is. In my opinion the RDS is a marketing ploy so that customers feel better about buying jackets with down. The birds are not that much better off. Yeah, they are not live-plucked and force fed, but i don't agree in celebrating abstaining from these barbaric practices as if the industry now is voilent free. It is not. My initial statement stands. If there is a company that earns money with violence and one that makes an effort to avoid violence, I will always give my money to those who abstain from violence.
@@Bloxeh I absolutely agree. It's not even just about live plucking. There is more to it. Animals are kept as prisoners against their will. They live in poor conditions. Down is simply unethical. That being said, do you know of any climbing/outdoor brands that do not sell down of any kind? Even quite ethical ones such as Patagonia do sell it. But they also support fly fishing while trying to educate people against overfishing 🤷♂️
I have the older version of Arc'teryx synthetic for almost 10 years and it still is good but down jackets don't last more than 3-5 years. And the best thing, I got my Arc'teryx from attending to a raffle of an opening event of a climbing shop.
1:51 - Its not a little, its 70% extra heat retention. The problem is not that you guys are sponsored and therefore mostly only show sponsored products, its that most of your videos are just advertisements, and you constantly try to hide the fact that its just an advertisment through titles like "why would you buy a synethetic insulated jacket" Its really dishonest and you aren't a trustworthy source of information.
I appreciate that he announces very early on that he's sponsored by Arctery'x. I'm able to draw my own conclusions at that point and still enjoy his thoughts.
This reviewer is great. Very informative and enthusiastic. I have a Cerium SV down jacket and was wondering if you could wear it over a Proton LT if you were stationary? Or would the Proton be too baggy as a mid-layer?
I GET THE "CRULETY TO ANIMALS" ARGUMENT BUT WE EAT DEAD DUCKS ANYHOW, . . . IT TAKES 100+YEARS TO DISSOLVE PLASTICS AND SYNTHETICS. . . WHICH IS WORSE ???
One review I read, says that Proton is slightly less warm than the Atom and has better breathability. So it's a better option if you tend to run "hot".
I have both the atom lt and proton lt and unfortunately although I love the atom lt, the proton has made it redundant. The proton seems to regulate body heat better than the atom but also can be just as warm in cooler temperatures. I also prefer the slightly longer fit of the proton.
I’m a happy owner of a Atom AR for colder days and bought a Proton FL last spring for summer mountain use. Turns out I still wear the Proton FL now in the Netherlands which says something about how versatile it is! Still trying to find an excuse to buy the the Proton LT.. Does somebody have experience in wearing it around camp with less activity during colder nights?
TRAIL TALES it’s not an around camp jacket unless you’re putting GORE windstopper or a hard shell over it simply because of the air permeability. It’s notably cooler than the Cerium LT/Atom LT when standing still with a bit of wind. That said, much prefer it for hiking and climbing, and I keep a hard shell in my bag for when I’m stopped and it’s windy.
The air permeability of the Proton means that it tries to equalize your body temperature with your surroundings, because it lets air in and out. A less air permeable jacket like the Atom (or even more so the Nuclei) will keep you much warmer when you're static in cold/windy/wet conditions. Protons are awesome for high output activity! (Check out the Practitioner AR if you really want to geek out)
I think the name of the video ought to have 'should' instead of 'would', English is not my native tongue, but I feel like the current name of the video implies "Why would you be so stupid to buy a synthetic jacket (instead of down)?"
@@vincentkrause7097 Nope not yet, and I live in the greater Houston area in Texas. So I really only get to wear it when it freezes here, but it would probably make a really good outer layer for mountaineering. It's a super tough water proof material. If I stick my arm under a running faucet the water just beads up and rolls right off. Water sticks to a rain poncho better than its sticks to my jacket.
I’ve used Arcteryx gear for 15 years now. For the weight, they’re genuinely the best value for the money. I just got the new Proton LT a few weeks ago, and I love it. It’s been fantastic as a breathable layer, though I’m not using it between boulder attempts or as a belay jacket, it breathes too well for that. That’s more the Cerium territory (I have a Thorium coming for the exact reasons Matt stated in the video). I personally will always prefer down for weight and packability; until synthetics get to the weight/compression factor that 750+ fill down get, I can’t give up a good down jacket. A good synthetic alternative to the Cerium/Thorium are the Atom LT and AR. Both great jackets that I’ve owned in the past (and still own the LT).
A very good, clear and usefull review, this is how you can really choose new, better garments for your climbing and other outdoors adventures. More of this please! Greetings from cold and wet Holland.
I started off looking at Canadian Goose
Once again, thanks for such an in-depth review! I don’t even need a jacket but found myself watching the entire thing! Lol
I have several Arc’teryx pieces and am very happy with the performance and fit, I rock and ice clime and never leave home without one of them...
Considering the environment I intend to use a jacket like this and when, mid Europe to Scottish Highlands, I wonder if this jacket has enough protection for damp conditions ? Obviously I wouldn't expect to use this in pouring rain in the Highlands, but I would like it to cope with the odd short shower or mist without having to immediately dive for an outer layer, that's one thing that worries me about this jacket, another thing is I've seen reviews where it is said it's not the best at keeping wind out.
I'm currently considering this an option for me based on the reputation this brand has for quality and obviously the looks, also the fact that I'm willing to accept a heavier jacket for harder wearing then an ultra light easily damaged jacket, the problem is that I'm looking at the "Rab Infinity Alpine" and it just appears to me that it's way better specs for the conditions I intend to use the jacket for, the Rab seems to be treated for the elements far better, the only thing being the material is not as tough as the Thorium, also I have seen from so many reviews that Arc'teryx quality is a good step up from Rab, so many people say the gear from Rab has gone down in quality a lot and their guarantee is not the way it used to be.
As you can probably read by now, I'm in a bit of a dilemma.... the Rab ticks the boxes more for all the things it needs to do, but at the same time I'm attracted to get into the world of Arc'teryx which I read so many times is the absolute best quality.
I'm curious to hear if you have any opinions on my dilemma ?
Cheers 👊
Thorium hoody blue 2021 tip top
I’ve got the new Proton and absolutely love it. My one gripe would be that I wish it had pit zips. Wore it up a route and once the sun came out it got pretty toasty, half unzipping wasn’t enough, I ended up taking it off and hanging it on a quickdraw, grabbing it on my way down.
I’m sure as the temps continue to drop that won’t be an issue, and maybe I just like pit zips, but it would have made this jacket (in my opinion) perfect.
I agree, it's armpits can be a bit tight and warm.
Hey, do you have a review of the Thorium AR? What temperatures is it comfortable to wear?(lowest&highest)
Excellent comparison video by the way!
It's annoying how oblivious people are to the inherent cruelty of down. The feathers are often ripped out of the birds while they are alive. First of all, I don't understand how people could say that isn't cruel. Cruel is an understatement, imo... Companies like Patagonia claim to source down "cruelty-free", but this basically just means that the birds are killed before the plucking occurs. In what universe is killing a living animal free of cruelty?
You would have to completely disregard the animal's life, which I understand lots of people do, but I think it is inherently just wrong.
The level of unawareness surrounding this issue is honestly astounding. Down products are touted in such a mainstream fashion that they are even discussed in Climbing Daily videos. Not only that, but in the most ironic way possible - having the video titled the way it is illustrates a profound level of tone-deafness on the issue.
This comment is not meant to be a diss on Climbing Daily, but just a reaction to a generally poignant example of how deeply society neglects animals.
Couldn't agree more Brian.
Down is not inherently cruel. The rest to the the bird is used for something and it's the nature of the world is that animals get eaten by other animals. Are you going to make polar bears and lions and dogs vegetarian because they eat other animals and thats cruel? Why don't you focus on something more useful that could be stopped like environmental destruction that kills lots of animals every year or the inequality in the human world and wars that kill and maim thousands every year.
You should research the RDS standard. Arc, Patagonia, TNF, etc all use it and even PETA is ok with it.
@@ackmartin60 animals are not enslaved by other animals. Environmental destruction is very closely related to the view that you share that we are superior to other species and we have the right to enslave and eat them. Your point that animals eat animals might be fair if we ate animals that we actually kill but we don't do this, we delegate other people to do it. We are simply not capable to kill what we eat, so we resort to enslaving millions of animals to eat them and exploit them, then we use the excuse that "animals kill other animals" to feb better with ourselves.
@@ErasmusLocke would you be ok with a loved one being locked in a luxury hotel, not able to walk away, while other people come every month and forcefully cut their hair? That would be very responsible but still slavery. There's nothing responsible in enslaving an animal for our consumption.
Ok this is just a 6 minutes Arc’teryx ad...
It's a product review which climbing daily has been doing every friday for months if not years... This comment shows up literally every week lol.
Anne R Arc’teryx is a great company though. :)
@@MPHshoots idk why you would ever buy arcteryx products if you care about specs, unless you are sponsored by them...
@@benschuster9792 what's wrong with them?
@@danialkashin234 as this video is about arteryx insulated jackets that's the main thing I'm referring to. I think their shell jackets are very good quality but not good value.
My main issue with their insulated jackets are that they charge extreme prices for lesser quality insulation. Coreloft is outperformed by primaloft in many tests. Climashield apex is miles better than both with warmth per weight higher than down in super light jackets (this is due to baffle construction adding weight and sewn through baffles being weak points, this isn't true for much warmer jackets with boxed baffles).
For their prices I'd expect the best of the best and that isn't what you get in their synthetic jackets.
They also withhold the denier count on their ripstop products which is extremely important information for anyone trying to save weight, and if you need a lightweight insulated jacket then you absolutely do care about weight.
For their down products, most of them use 750fp down which is what I'd expect to get from decathlon or a budget jacket from a mainstream brand, not from one of the most expensive brands out there (the decathlon trek 100 has 800fp down and that costs £50!).
Some of their ~£800 jackets still only have 850fp down which is a bit better but still far from the best.
TLDR: high end prices for midrange specs
Because I’m allergic to down. That’s exactly why
A next-gen Proton should have 1/2 the insulation removed in the armpit area and then it will be perfect. I've actually thought of slicing the armpits and sewing in velcro - or coming up with a similar type of solution
Welp, I bought both and have the best of both worlds.
Because synthetic doesn't involve cruelty...
Yes, and personally I chose a company that doesn't support violence in any of their products, not just on some products. So that's a no for Arc’teryx.
Bloxeh research the RDS standard.
@@ErasmusLocke I know the 'standard', but it includes still the unnecessary use and killing of animals. Down feathers belong on geese not in peoples jackets. The whole system evolves around breeding, killing and plucking birds - if this is no violence, i don't know what is.
In my opinion the RDS is a marketing ploy so that customers feel better about buying jackets with down. The birds are not that much better off. Yeah, they are not live-plucked and force fed, but i don't agree in celebrating abstaining from these barbaric practices as if the industry now is voilent free. It is not.
My initial statement stands. If there is a company that earns money with violence and one that makes an effort to avoid violence, I will always give my money to those who abstain from violence.
@@Bloxeh I absolutely agree. It's not even just about live plucking. There is more to it. Animals are kept as prisoners against their will. They live in poor conditions. Down is simply unethical.
That being said, do you know of any climbing/outdoor brands that do not sell down of any kind? Even quite ethical ones such as Patagonia do sell it. But they also support fly fishing while trying to educate people against overfishing 🤷♂️
@@Bloxeh What company doesn't offer down products though? That has to be limited to some very expensive boutique brands, as things are today.
I have the older version of Arc'teryx synthetic for almost 10 years and it still is good but down jackets don't last more than 3-5 years. And the best thing, I got my Arc'teryx from attending to a raffle of an opening event of a climbing shop.
1:51 - Its not a little, its 70% extra heat retention.
The problem is not that you guys are sponsored and therefore mostly only show sponsored products, its that most of your videos are just advertisements, and you constantly try to hide the fact that its just an advertisment through titles like "why would you buy a synethetic insulated jacket" Its really dishonest and you aren't a trustworthy source of information.
@Jacob Dawson I guess you look like an intellectual then?
I appreciate that he announces very early on that he's sponsored by Arctery'x. I'm able to draw my own conclusions at that point and still enjoy his thoughts.
This reviewer is great. Very informative and enthusiastic. I have a Cerium SV down jacket and was wondering if you could wear it over a Proton LT if you were stationary? Or would the Proton be too baggy as a mid-layer?
scotthunter4 would work very well
Because as a nature person you probably love animals!
Which is warmer = Thorium AR or Rab Infinity Light?
I GET THE "CRULETY TO ANIMALS" ARGUMENT BUT WE EAT DEAD DUCKS ANYHOW, . . . IT TAKES 100+YEARS TO DISSOLVE PLASTICS AND SYNTHETICS. . . WHICH IS WORSE ???
What can say me about nuclei FL Jacket? What differences with the Proton Jacket?
How does the Proton LT compare to the Atom LT? Will the Atom LT be substantially warmer or are they pretty close to same?
One review I read, says that Proton is slightly less warm than the Atom and has better breathability. So it's a better option if you tend to run "hot".
Synthetic for moving, down for static. Montane Fireball and Rap Microlight for me. Never had a soft-shell. Hiking not climbing.
Rab Xenon. Best synthertic jacket i've ever owned.
I can’t tell, is the Proton LT the Black colour or their grey/green Labyrinth ?
Matthew Arsenault black, if I’m not mistaken
I got old Proton LT and AR plus Proton FL. Looking forward to the new LT as I sweat like a pig. Thanks for the informative video!
Do you prefer this over the Dually as a belay jacket?
I have both the atom lt and proton lt and unfortunately although I love the atom lt, the proton has made it redundant. The proton seems to regulate body heat better than the atom but also can be just as warm in cooler temperatures. I also prefer the slightly longer fit of the proton.
The old Proton or the new one? I sweat even in Proton (old model).
@@Neonomide new one although I've also just picked up the new atom LT and would now say the atom LT is warmer and let's out less heat.
@@ThatEssentialAttire atom lt more versatile, but proton lt is just a beast at what it’s meant to do (activewear in cold climates
I’m a happy owner of a Atom AR for colder days and bought a Proton FL last spring for summer mountain use. Turns out I still wear the Proton FL now in the Netherlands which says something about how versatile it is! Still trying to find an excuse to buy the the Proton LT.. Does somebody have experience in wearing it around camp with less activity during colder nights?
TRAIL TALES it’s not an around camp jacket unless you’re putting GORE windstopper or a hard shell over it simply because of the air permeability. It’s notably cooler than the Cerium LT/Atom LT when standing still with a bit of wind. That said, much prefer it for hiking and climbing, and I keep a hard shell in my bag for when I’m stopped and it’s windy.
The air permeability of the Proton means that it tries to equalize your body temperature with your surroundings, because it lets air in and out. A less air permeable jacket like the Atom (or even more so the Nuclei) will keep you much warmer when you're static in cold/windy/wet conditions. Protons are awesome for high output activity! (Check out the Practitioner AR if you really want to geek out)
I think the name of the video ought to have 'should' instead of 'would', English is not my native tongue, but I feel like the current name of the video implies "Why would you be so stupid to buy a synthetic jacket (instead of down)?"
Great work. You deserve way more subscribers
It's nice to see the comments and thumbs up against the use of down 😃👍
Yeah I was surprised my comment was taken well... Times are changing!
I am allergic to feathers
Good topic!!
Because I am allergic to feathers....
For the animals. Thank you. Next ?
What's with the "howstuffworks" tunes between scenes? :)
I have a great carhartt jacket.
Do you wear it climbing?
@@vincentkrause7097 Nope not yet, and I live in the greater Houston area in Texas. So I really only get to wear it when it freezes here, but it would probably make a really good outer layer for mountaineering. It's a super tough water proof material. If I stick my arm under a running faucet the water just beads up and rolls right off. Water sticks to a rain poncho better than its sticks to my jacket.
I’ve used Arcteryx gear for 15 years now. For the weight, they’re genuinely the best value for the money. I just got the new Proton LT a few weeks ago, and I love it. It’s been fantastic as a breathable layer, though I’m not using it between boulder attempts or as a belay jacket, it breathes too well for that. That’s more the Cerium territory (I have a Thorium coming for the exact reasons Matt stated in the video). I personally will always prefer down for weight and packability; until synthetics get to the weight/compression factor that 750+ fill down get, I can’t give up a good down jacket. A good synthetic alternative to the Cerium/Thorium are the Atom LT and AR. Both great jackets that I’ve owned in the past (and still own the LT).
Um because down is a product of torture of suffering and no compassionate self respecting human being would wear down!
Down is evil
The AR looks to big for you mate drop a size down