Hi. Learn more here about Jennifer Burek Pierce's book Narratives, Nerdfighters, and New Media: www.uipress.uiowa.edu/books/9781609387181/narratives-nerdfighters-and-new-media Also, Valerie (the original Pizza John designer) is making a zine to celebrate the 10-year (?!?!?!?) anniversary of Pizza John, and you are invited to participate: docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdeekNNQU_pRN_UzUSUKyZFkqDSKD9yoHbFohtuxP0Hl6BKUw/viewform Your thoughts/questions about money/value assignation/ownership are very welcome in comments! -John
You should really just sell your own ads to yourself for your books. if you make a video with a 5 second plug at the end for your new book, you should pay "vlogbrothers" and thus the charities, the 5 seconds worth of ads. What those 5 seconds is worth is not a calculation I can do, but seems like a fair balance
Every now and then the interwebs manages to produce a wholesome community and in my opinion is the best part of this technology. My hope is that the future trends tend away from the divisiveness and hostility found elsewhere and more sharing and mutual growth can be fostered on the whole.
Nerdfighteria makes relationships: Three and a half years ago I met a boy who recognized my P4A socks, which made me determined to get his phone number so we could see each other again. A few months later, we took a road trip together to see Hank and John on the AART book tour, and those 6 hours of talking on the road were when we started to get really close. Three weeks ago, I married him. When I say Nerdfighteria changed my life, I mean in a very direct and significant way.
Nerdfigheria is the reason I got into volunteering, which in turn helped me discover a passion for teaching and now I work at an org providing education to low-income families So I can't quantify what Nerdfigheria 'makes' on a zoomed out level, but it definitely shaped my life 🌻💙
That's awesome! I had a similar experience when our Life's Library shelf was discussing We Crossed a Bridge and It Trembled. The discussion pushed me to finally look up volunteering opportunities, and I'm so grateful for it.
The fact you both regularly ask the question who owns nerdfighteria and understand that the value created far outweighs the value captured is a huge part of why this community feels authentic and is still active and caring decades later. It’s why I’ve stuck around for over a decade at the very least
I agree that it has been critical to our longevity (while also being aware that the choice that allowed for that longevity was a function of extreme, extreme privilege). -John
@@vlogbrothers Your longevity is also because you long ago stopped trying to grow, and just let vlogbrothers exist naturally. By not putting pressure on yourselves or your audience, you created a safe space. A space where we are here because we trust you to steward the community appropriately, because you make choices we like. Very few reach such a wide range of ages, genders, countries, socio-economic statuses, etc. You have broad appeal to people who like an idea. Taking the money generated by the idea, and using it to make the idea possible for more people is the best thing you could possibly do with it. And besides, look at what happens every year for p4a, you ask the community for money and ideas, and you get amazing amounts of both. If we didn't think you were making good choices, this wouldn't happen. By simply asking how we feel, you're showing that you care, and we know you'll actually look at what people say, take it to heart, and continue to make the world a better place.
I like this idea. It's safer here on RUclips, however... The discord servers are where the real culture shock happens. I say this with love, of course. I love this community.
You’re already there! I came into this channel about a year into its creation and I think I hesitated to call myself a nerdfighter until about three years ago because I wasn’t in a discord group. Then I talked to some folks on Twitter about it and realized that doing a scavenger hunt or a being in an additional setting outside of this wasn’t necessary. I
The fact that there's a wholesome online nation in all this craziness where anyone who honestly wants to do good and be nerdy and find others like them gives me a joy I don't know how to describe yet.
There is nothing funnier to me than explaining to my friends that I'm a nerdfighter. Because even though both your books have gotten here my friends still say "that's a fancy way to say you're a John Green fan" and I tell them I am but I am Hanks fan too and X nerdfighters fan too so they never get it. And we have a nerdfighter group here but still. So I always say that for so many years I was an alien living on earth and one day I watched one vlogbrothers video and I found my planet ♥️ my place. Thank you John and Hank and all of Nerdfighteria for that.
Yes! It’s so hard to explain in a nuanced way. The easiest comparison to make is to describe Nerdfighteria as a sort of fandom space, and it is very interconnected with certain fandom spaces, but it is also fundamentally different. Yes, I am a huge fan of Hank and John, but what has had such a bigger impact on me is the world view that I have built around the values of this community and the experiences I have had within it.
@@autumnbrookesings with my grandma I would say the John Green fans but to everyone else I tell them and if they don't get it that might be a red flag 😂
I highly recommend reading Benedict Anderson’s “Imagined Communities” I’m reading it now and it works to try to understand how groups of people come together under one identity to build a collective. It’s a cool book and very interesting to read in a time of online connection.
@@ParadoxProblems Nah he definitely read that many years ago. It's an old well-known text which is included in every other "new media" and fandom study, along with Textual Poachers by Henry Jenkins.
its an interesting question but its also true, for me at least, that I am often happy to participate in and find value in things while not really being interested in 'owning' it
Agreed! The notion of ownership feels attached to so many troubling assumptions around gatekeeping and who is owed direct benefit, when there's a huge amount of positive value that doesn't have to be a zero-sum game. I find my life enriched by the culture, the content, and the community in a way that doesn't have to take away from anybody else's benefit.
I have been a lonely island on the nerdfighteria globe for as long as I can remember, I am not so good at making friends even online and so I have watched and engaged with the content on this channel alone, even though the fact that I know nerdfighters exist out there has made me feel less lonely ^^
I feel this too. I enjoy the videos, but actually integrating into the community takes time: joining the discord, participating in discussions regularly, making circle drawings. I can't say I don't HAVE that time, only that I don't make that time. That said, I also feel glad knowing there are other people from Nerdfightaria who connect through this community on discord and elsewhere. I do hope that someone recognizes my Pizza John shirts some day, but sometimes they're even funnier since they make no sense to anyone but me.
I feel similarly - a close observer of the community, but not quite a part of it. I admire what Nerdfighters have accomplished, and I think they're by and large wonderful people, but for some reason I don't feel comfortable becoming one. And I'm fine with that. It's enough to know that Nerdfighteria exists :)
Hi John, I think part of the reason Nerdfighteria became the awesome place/thing it is today is because you and Hank keep asking yourselves these questions. You handle the community with such respect and care, as it deserves. Thank you for that! - Eva
Thank you, Eva. I think it's also that the community has encouraged us to think more broadly about who's actually creating the value and what the implications are for that with regards to who ends up with the money. But again, that is partly a function of extreme, extreme privilege. Almost nobody who makes videos as a part of their job can afford to pass up on the ad revenue. So I think this model has allowed nerdfighteria to thrive in special ways, but I also think that only happens because of this extreme form of privilege. In short, for me, it's still quite complicated. -John
@@vlogbrothers I don’t think that taking the revenue from your channel would be a problem if you needed it as long as you continued to be conscious of your audience and supportive of the value they created. Of course, some people take it too far by promoting prescription drugs, supplements, and games based on addictive gambling. As long as your method of making money isn’t harmful to the audience and doesn’t compromise your integrity or relationship with them, then I don’t think profiting off your creation would be problematic. Though there is always that inherent power imbalance that comes from profiting off your audience.
@@vlogbrothers theStoryTeller actually made a very similar video the other day that touches on some of these concerns: ruclips.net/video/dh88e9_SAW4/видео.html
@@vlogbrothers I appreciate you noting that. I recently tried to launch a website about frugality and personal finance, but you hit it- there's no way I could do so sustainably without ad revenue. Which is a frustrating position to be in when I see creators like yourself who are doing things ethically in a way I don't feel capable of. But I'm grateful for your thoughts over the years which have tremendously shaped my way of thinking on the topic of internet attention.
It’s a bit circular because the reason the Green bros think about this is because of the thoughtful community that gathered around them due to their thoughtfulness. Good will begets more good will, I suppose?
C E O entrepreneur, Born in 1984, Henry, Henry 'Hank' Green! Come on Henry, you can do it. Pave the way, put your back into it. Sell that merch, make that vlog, Look at lots of TikToks, and go pet a dog. PragerU and FOX and Crowder, Amateurs just shouting louder, Slam their lies, crush their tweets, Come on, Hank, GET EM! 🎼🎶🎵🎹
Yes, I think that is the answer. But if we all own it together, then we need to be careful to make sure that the value that gets created gets captured together. The way we're trying to do that currently is by spending the money in ways that hopefully reflect the values of the community--through grants to educational creators and donations to charity. But I also want to be conscious of the fact that Hank and I have benefited tremendously (financially and otherwise) from nerdfighteria, even though I don't own it or generate most of the value in it. And that's a complicated thing to navigate I think. -John
@@vlogbrothers then it sounds like you're navigating that with humility, gratitude, and charity too. I'd say you're doing okay and thanks for paving the way for such an amazing community.
@@vlogbrothers I think you’re not giving things like DFTBA and the Awesome Socks club enough credit. Nerdfighters build off of your videos and create value, but you have both worked hard to give them the ability to capture that value for themselves while also helping the world around them. Today is the first time I have heard that you don’t profit off of vlogbrothers videos, and I think that goes a long way to negating your concern about hoarding the value.
I think I actually used this book as a reference in my essay last month about how creatives and the law struggle with the idea of ownership of creative expression in the digital age.
I've become a hardcore nerdfighter after having my first introduction to the vlogbrothers six months ago. The thing I love about this community is how often we question ourselves - our beliefs, our actions, and our understanding of ourselves. John doing precisely that in this video is a great example of this
I'm travelling at the moment, but when i saw the notification and clicked on it my first thought was "thank god, a sense of home even if ts a digital space"
What I find so special about nerdfighteria on a platform like RUclips: how common and accepted it is to disagree with each other, and with you and your brother John, and how this is handled in a respectful manner. That's something that's sadly not in every RUclips community (and way beyond that) the case.
I started being part of Nerdfighteria when I was about to turn 12, and here I am 9 years later about to turn 21. In many ways, Nerdfighteria has made me. It's been a big part of my life for so many of my formative years and has really shaped the way I think about the world and my place in it. I think Nerdfighteria has helped me approach the world through nuance and compassion and I am so grateful for it and for everything it and you both do.
Whenever you ask for our input on these things, I always think, "But you've got it all figured out!" That you can spend so much time learning about these social constructs and still feel unsure... Either the complexity of the world is infinite or your humility is. Probably both.
I have been a Nerdfighter since 2011, and Jennifer Burek Pierce was my advisor when I got my Masters in Library Science in 2017, and this is the most surreal video I have ever experienced. The world is so small for how large it is.
My brother loves to sit down with me and help transcribe videos, and it feels really nice to know that I/we might be helping in a way that makes a difference!
I'm currently working on a book about the history and culture of fandom, so I've bookmarked this book (and this video!) for later! Thanks for the resources!
Nerdfighteria gave me a home. a concept that enabled me to enjoy my days on earth rather than "get through" each day. From the depths of my heart, thank you brothers green.
The description of a community that creates things together, one building on another's work and extending it in new and exciting ways, reminds me of the artists' communes that thrived in the US and Europe in the 60s and 70s. Those people didn't worry too much abput who did what and where the credit should go, but mainly wanted to make a difference together. It also reminded me of the Israeli Kibbutz, when it was still anchored in hard work and sharing everything - the work, the reward, effectively making it a big family. I think that the online community you and other share is so important as an example of how people can be coerced to extract the best of them, in spite of the everyday noise trying to lull us into loneliness.
It makes me SO happy to be a part of this community. I've been here since I was 9 and I'm in my 20s now. I'm so glad that the online community I grew up in was a force for good. Nerdfighteria has undeniably been a force for good in my life. Helping me grow into a caring and compassionate person. Considering what could have happened had I found myself in a different community at such a young age, I'm glad I'm where I am now.
It has been such an honor to watch this book take shape as my friend and colleague worked on it for so long. I would urge Nerdfighters to take a look at the timeline of Nerdfighteria in the appendix, and appreciate the dedicated scholarly labor of love it was and just how much the places of Nerdfighteria are saved, collected, and compiled in that document. It may be located in the appendix, but it's not an afterhought. It's a gift. She wrangled, organized, documented and remembered our history in a fast-moving age of forgetting.
That's an excellent point - the whole concept is essentially a small step to the left and a slightly shifted perspective on 'no ethical consumption under capitalism'.
I've been trying to expand the realm of books I read to books not connected to Nerfighteria, but now I really want to read this book that is apparently, explicitly about Nerfighteria
i adore your phrasing and how it seems to emphasise that nerdfighteria doesn't exist passively, but by the continued, intentional engagement of nerdfighters
I will forever be grateful for this community and these creators for the phrase "imagine others complexly". When I'm lucky enough to catch myself being judgemental or petty this phrase has a way of creeping in and making me a better person. Not because I'm not judgemental or petty but because I can acknowledge it and give a second thought that gives me an opportunity to reevaluate my position and maybe, just maybe, see someone in a different light. Thank you
I think the fact that the conversation about ownership, revenue, and how the money should be allocated is happening at all is one of the extraordinary things about this community. I wish more creators would engage in this level of discussion about profits. While I definitely want the creators I enjoy to get paid so they can, you know, live, I am always so exhilarated to know how much money from Nerdfighteria goes to charity.
"Who owns nerdfighteria?" I love the question, even if it is wrongly put. As an author, I get tons of advice and ideas from my readers. Those ideas have significantly changed the trajectory of the overall series. Does all who offered advice own a share? If I own it, do I own the meaning of it? John said something I really love.I doubt it was his originally and I paraphrase but, "Once a book is written, it, in a way, belongs to the readers. If the readers interpret the work differently than the creator, the reader is right." Maybe, when any of us create anything good, and add it to the world, it becomes its own thing separate from the creator in the same way a child separates from their parents to become their own person. The parent can be rightly proud of every good thing their child does, but they do not own their child.
I’m only gonna speak to the book royalty part. We didn’t write those. Writing is hard. You work hard at it. It is a long and labor intensive process (mental labor counts!) Do with that money what you will. Same for Hank.
I get the sense that Hank and John frequently feel guilty about making money and being successful. I really wish that they wouldn't. Reaching people, dispersing ideas, facilitating the creation of connections, and highlighting important things is a perfectly reasonable thing to be compensated doing and the fact that they are successful at doing it makes it all the more reasonable that they should be compensated well.
Hank and John have done such a fantastic job building up a very conscious community, and consciously utilizing the many resources this community builds, collects, and creates!
I believe Nerdfighteria has helped a whole lot more people than just you, John, finding where they belong and how to be a better version of themselves. Thank you for all the great work you do even though it might not always appear to be much to you, the seeds you plant in other people’s hearts and minds has blossomed beautifully over the years and it is always amazing to see all that comes from it. I hope this can go on for a long time. Keep on DFTBA-ing with us!
I've been a part of Nerdfighteria for over a decade now, having been pulled into the arms of this community via an index card in a used copy of An Abundance of Katherines. This is still my favorite neighborhood in the vast virtual world.
I am so grateful for nerdfighteria. I would never have met my ex girlfriend who wouldnt have taught me, indireftly, my own self worth if not for nerdfighteria nor would i have found myself more generally without you all. You all have brought me so, so much joy in the past ~14ish years and I am so glad to have been a part of it.
The reason that nerdfighteria is so valuable in the first place is that you and Hank have been shaping it into a pleasant space by being pleasant people. And because you give so much back to the community, we feel like you deserve every benefit that comes with it. We already benefit from the (mostly free) content you provide. And we know that the content that isn't free (the merchandise, the awesome socks club, etc) provides money to causes we care about. It's more than okay to benefit from being a force for good :)
I’m pretty happy just getting a share of the dopamine and serotonin. Though as someone who only discovered vlogbrothers and nerdfightaria 7 months ago, I’d love a way to feel like I was contributing more. I have skills I don’t know what to do with 😅
I’m not a big participator in nerdfighteria but I have been following you forever. The norms of nerdfighteria: liking things is cool, imagining people complexly, and collboration have absolutely changed my life for the better. So i’m happy to be a part of this community that I am also not a part of. :)
I readily think of 'ownership' through the lens of my faith - in which God gives to us what he wills, so that we might give away what we're given, and participate in a great giving that keeps going. It's the pattern for good living. I think the giving and giving-back that nerdfighteria does (including you, John) makes the community flourish. And it's good that we keep on reflecting on what we have and how we can give well - it will help us keep doing it and do it better.
So much of who I am comes from Nerdfighteria. I’ve been watching since 2013 and this channel and this community have shaped the way that I think about things and the way that I interact with the world. I’m very grateful that I’m able to be a part of it!
It is hard to feel responsible to decide where to draw a line between what you want to give away and what you want to keep as your well-earned personal benefits. That is much more than a person with a normal profession has to face. From my perspective though, your finding and promoting a few carefully chosen charities is yet another gift from you. You investing your time, attention and resources to support a charity is enough reason for me to support them as well, because I trust you. It has never been a question for me how much money from your projects should go to charity, but I am grateful some of it does. I would never see you as a treasurer of this community, but you are its role model. How much of your time and money should go into supporting charities - as a question it feels similar to "how many times do you want to revise a draft of your book". It is your life same as it is your book, and I am only its fan.
This response comes in four parts: 1) Thinking of Nerdfighteria as an actual location seems like a form of skeuomorphism. As new forms of culture are created they often retain the form of their predecessors, even when there is no intrinsic need to do so. Consider the save icon in any Microsoft product; when was the last time you interacted with an actual 3.5mm floppy disk? Of course, there is great extrinsic need for these touchstones to sometimes forgotten past. Things change so quickly that a familiar "face" to a new idea probably helps us situate it within the larger cultural context. I feel that we are already straining to adapt to the rate of change we have foisted upon ourselves, every little advantage helps. 2) Should value created be captured? I mean, from one point of view I can see the argument that some person or entity is probably going to "capture" monetary value that can be obtained, so it might as well be someone I trust more, like John, Hank, or the Vlogbrothers entity than an entity like Google. But, on another hand, over ten years Vlogbrothers videos have helped me think deeper and differently about the world. To me, and as John notes at the end of the video, there is enormous value in this, if we use value in the "richer," not necessarily monetary, sense. Who should "capture" that value, if it ought be captured at all? One might make the argument that I have "captured" it? Certainly I feel enriched by the experience. But if I have captured the value, then, paradoxically, I am the poorer for it. If I share the thoughts and have conversations with people who think similarly or, especially, those who disagree, then I feel that even more value has been created. I see value in avoiding Nerdfighter $$$ going to merchandisers who run sweatshops or technocrats as much as possible. This is probably too idealistic to be realistic, and I would be greatly enriched if someone with a more practical but still ideal solution solution suggested it to me. 3) On a related note, who owns Nerdfighteria? Our culture seeks to ascribe ownership to too many things. It is a very efficient way to run things, but I don't think it is a good way to run them. 4) Lastly, where should the line be drawn for Hank and John extracting value from Vlogbrothers/Nerdfighteria? I would hardly begrudge anyone enough income to live comfortably on (owning one home, travelling at times, eating as one chooses to eat). I wish everyone had access to a reasonable facsimile of this (owning the home might be out of the question, but a safe place to live does not need to be and, consequentially, should not be). Sadly, in our current culture finances are generally a prerequisite to security and our society does little to ensure people have steady finances, so a little extra to cushion against downturns in fortune is also reasonable. But how much is "a little extra"? One year's cushion, a decade...? This is a tough question, but well worth considering even if I doubt there is a "right" answer.
My brother and I talk a lot about the power of the example you and Hank have set for internet communities. I don’t think the line really exists in the same way as a path on google maps - I think he best one can hope for is a steady sense of direction, and to keep true to that cardinal direction. In this case, Nerdfighteria and the two of you, in symbiotic step, have pushed the envelope in the direction of generosity, philanthropy, creativity, and community. I don’t believe there is a perfect balance for money/ownership/etc, particularly not yet when these systems are so young - but I think it I absolutely crucial to be facing the right way with full integrity and heart. That is what I see here, and that is why I’ve stayed ❤️🥰
Nerdfighteria to me is thoughts, a value, and acceptance. These are all very powerful, I as a person have changed for the better because of this community.
There's also the intangible but "super-value" inherent in strengthening a more just mindset and the likelihood that Nerdfiterians will spread that mindset wherever they go. I feel so much deep in my heart when I think about what John and Hank are sharing. I hope I share that with others in my day-to-day life.
I’ve been thinking about nerdfighteria a lot in the last couple of months and every day I’m grateful for this community (and of course you and hank) because I have a place to express my excitement for life and also to be understood in my moments of hopelessness.
I think part of the value of Nerdfighteria is how it makes people want to be nicer, more generous people. This in turn is shared with others and generates more value. Whatever value Nerdfighteria generates isn't kept in the community, but rather is shared to the wider world.
Okay, I'm going to admit, that I do roll my eyes a little every time the Vlogbrothers pitch a book by one of them, but I'll also say, I don't begrudge either of you the proceeds from book sales, no matter how you market them. When I watch TV (well, when I used to watch TV) and there was a promo for the new sitcom from that network nestled among the various pharmaceutical ads, I didn't ever think I was entitled to some of the proceeds from said sitcom and I think this is a good analogy. And, honestly, I wouldn't begrudge you taking income from these videos. I am proud of you that you have chosen to donate 100% of those proceeds, and I am glad you are able to do so. And I appreciate the feeling that this isn't your project but instead is a thing that we all build together and that there is some unfairness in how the fruits are distributed. But I also think that if RUclips had never been monetized, this community could still be as awesome, as loving, as compassionate as it is now. And even if it had never generated any cash flow that could be used to help people around the world, we might well have pooled our resources in other ways. Maybe the scale would be smaller (maybe) but I feel it would be much the same community we've grown to love.
You two are the Dads of Nerdfighteria. You're not responsible for everything that gets created by Nerdfighteria, but nothing in Nerdfighteria would be where it is without the community you've created and then raised. Also sometimes it's just nice to listen to our internet dads when real parents can't always be reached out to.
I loved the book and I'm glad John did as well! It was a great read with interesting and thoughtful considerations of new media communities and how we create today.
One thing I think most of us can agree on is that the value that Nerdfighteria has brought to not only our direct community (Nerdfighteria) but also to other communities is far more valuable than the unintentional money made with it. The fact that your careers have in the end, benefitted from the community in these kinds of ways, I think is just another unexpected benefit that comes from the community. The thing is, this community is built around some core values we all share in some way, with its own rules and norms. And those values that we share with you, you have proven throughout the years that you do share them and that you do act on them. You have shown us that you are not greedy or exceedingly selfish (we should all be a little selfish, I think), that when you do things, it is not with hidden intentions but with an earnest desire to do good and decrease worldsuck. We know you wouldn't take more than you think is rightly yours, and the fact that you already take less than what might legally be yours shows that you are holding yourself accountable in the way that the whole of us would. I think you know better than any of us, how much of it would really be YOURS vs the community's. (communities? I'm embarrassed for this one ngl). I personally think you have the right to keep any extra royalties you've made from your work gaining popularity throughout the community. But like others are saying, if you feel that there's an amount you shouldn't be keeping, that's ultimately a decision only you can make and doing charity and education things with it would reflect Nerdfighteria well. No matter where it's going, I know it's going to decrease worldsuck, even if it is just going into your wallet. :)
More than anything I’m consistently impressed by how long this community has been around, and how supportive and special it feels. Between books and educational projects this channel and it’s community specifically feels like a tiny oasis. The fact that it (and by extension, you and Hank) has stayed clear of the typical trappings of any online community centered around “creators” is insane. I can’t call you guys like, underrated, because your work reaches so many people and is so well known even outside the Internet sphere, and also that would be doing a disservice to the amazing people already in this community. But I do think that Nerdfighteria deserves every ounce of appreciation it gets and more.
There is an extremely interesting divide created by people who were socialized into the capitalist dogma and those who have eventually questioned it. For example, many people would say that all the money you make is yours and you can do whatever you like with it. While this is facts from a capitalistic viewpoint, your acknowledgement of community sourcing and the importance of recognizing it speaks to a deeper answer. Socialistic ideals propagate because they ring true on some level. Even on a level that capitalist have to acknowledge. You grow the society and the society, now stronger, will support you back. This active self preservation, on an idealogical level, makes absolute sense economically. Thank you for talking about these issues opening. I think it is only with open dialogue that we can grow.
Democratized workplaces I think are the best way to ascribe value to input. Relying on norms is an indirect way to do so in a decentralized community structure. You act in good faith and value fairness, which gets you most of the way there most of the time. Optimizing for true fairness is a fool’s errand because that often relies on moral judgement that will vary from person to person.
The way the two of you treat your wealth (at least from an outsider's perspective) is I think how all rich people should. You obviously live quite comfortably, but you use your wealth to help other people through jobs at Complexly, charity donations, and the educational videos you make. I'm happy to support your endeavors wherever I am able, and help create the value where I can, because I think you guys are good leaders of this community. I guess if you royally screwed up, I'd try to find another community similar, but that would be hard. Also, there isn't another RUclips channel I've been watching continuously for almost 12 years, and there's value in the familiarity.
I made a presentation to my professors on what inspired me to make art, and there was a whole section for Vlogbrothers and Nerdfighteria, and it was only as I created that presentation that I realized how it had influenced me down to what kind of things I think about when I create.
I think the biggest thing Nerdfighteria creates is community. I am not an active member of this community but I feel it all the same. I know if I am out someplace and see someone wearing something nerdfighter related, that is someone from my community. I am extremely unlikely to approach that person, but it still hits me that we are connected somehow, and that feels good. I broadens my world and hopefully does that for others also.
Back in the ning days it Nerdfighteria really was a physical space in my mind, now that I think about it. We talked about it all the time as like a small town with different buildings or a school with different rooms and a movie theater where we would all gather to watch vlogbrothers videos
I must say, the fact that Hank and John don't try to copyright every little thing that comes out of Nerfighteria makes me very happy. There's so much good fanart out there that would not exist if that were the case!
I'm just here to say that as of today, I've watched every single vlogbrothers video (at least the ones that are still available on youtube, there were a few I couldn't find). This journey started on March 2020, right after lockdown had begun, and as a long time sub (probably since 2011) who didn't always watch the videos and stopped watching for a few years, I'm so glad to have rediscovered you guys. There were many things I still think about from your videos, mostly about what John said of imagining people complexly, and what Hank said on a video where he starts by saying that a certain bridge didn't fall. Norse Fighters! I mean Nerdfighters. Don't forget to be awesome.
You may get the money, but we get the intangibles. This is a safe, homey space for us to come to whenever we need it. I've had a really hard week and a half, and this video just felt like a hug. DFTBA indeed.
Also, it is impossible to quantify the mental stability and lives this channel has saved by being the safe place we’ve all curated. That is workforce, it is family income, it is a ripple reaching out and embracing us all.
Nerdfighteria got me through some really rough patches over the past 10ish years. I will be forever grateful that this massive, amazing "place" sprung up as an island oasis on the often tumultuous ocean that is the internet. Regardless of who "owns" it, I'm glad I'm here 💜
I’m relatively new to this community (discovered it first back in 2018) so I don’t know who owns it but boy am I so glad for its existence, as a foreigner who lived alone in the US and now in Japan.. watching your videos weekly and then reading the comments section never fails to make me feel like I’m part of something valuable and this sense of belongingness to me is priceless. Nerdfighteria makes me laugh even when I’m under terrible burden of destiny and loneliness and for that I’m eternally thankful.
I’m a part of NerdFighteria Kitchen on FB and it’s such a lovely subcommunity that encourages my desire to make good food & ask how to do kitchen things when Google fails me and I don’t have RL support
I trust that you and Hank are keeping enough of the revenues to live comfortable and fulfilling personal lives. I trust you to be honest with yourselves about how much that is. I think it's good and right that the rest should be used to support Nerdfighteria and to decrease world suck. These sort of videos remind me that Nerdfighteria is not just the name of a fandom, but a functioning force for growth and change. They remind me why I'm so grateful to be a part of a community that values art and justice and joy and reality.
I’ve been consistently watching and supporting Hank and John since I was 11 and I’m going to turn 21 in a month. This video is exactly one of the reasons that they have remained my favs since I’ve first joined the internet (them and Dan and Phil)
When it comes to who should receive money from a project, a lot of people think fairness or equality should be a big part of that, but I've always admired how nerdfighteria seems to put compassion above both of those.
This is definitely something I’ve thought about over the decade-ish I’ve been a part of Nerdfighteria. I’ve always loved the charitable aspect of this community, it crops up in nearly everything we do! I’m not qualified to talk about the non-rhetorical questions you posed, but just wanted to say I’m very grateful to have grown up amongst such a king and giving community. ❤️
i saw the title and m first thought was "we do" we including you and me, john and hank, everyone at complexly, everyone who has seen even just a handful of vlog brothers videos. that's the cool thing about it. the limitlessness of the sharing of community.
Hi. Learn more here about Jennifer Burek Pierce's book Narratives, Nerdfighters, and New Media: www.uipress.uiowa.edu/books/9781609387181/narratives-nerdfighters-and-new-media
Also, Valerie (the original Pizza John designer) is making a zine to celebrate the 10-year (?!?!?!?) anniversary of Pizza John, and you are invited to participate: docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdeekNNQU_pRN_UzUSUKyZFkqDSKD9yoHbFohtuxP0Hl6BKUw/viewform
Your thoughts/questions about money/value assignation/ownership are very welcome in comments! -John
You should really just sell your own ads to yourself for your books. if you make a video with a 5 second plug at the end for your new book, you should pay "vlogbrothers" and thus the charities, the 5 seconds worth of ads. What those 5 seconds is worth is not a calculation I can do, but seems like a fair balance
I challenged myself to purchase it before the video was over. Did not succeed but tried regardless.
Every now and then the interwebs manages to produce a wholesome community and in my opinion is the best part of this technology. My hope is that the future trends tend away from the divisiveness and hostility found elsewhere and more sharing and mutual growth can be fostered on the whole.
Thankyou.
Coupon code BUR35
Nerdfighteria makes relationships: Three and a half years ago I met a boy who recognized my P4A socks, which made me determined to get his phone number so we could see each other again. A few months later, we took a road trip together to see Hank and John on the AART book tour, and those 6 hours of talking on the road were when we started to get really close. Three weeks ago, I married him. When I say Nerdfighteria changed my life, I mean in a very direct and significant way.
Congratulations 😊
Aww! That reminds me of the nerfighterlike song ruclips.net/video/6YonOpkx6K8/видео.html
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❤
Congratulations to you both. 🥂
Nerdfigheria is the reason I got into volunteering, which in turn helped me discover a passion for teaching and now I work at an org providing education to low-income families
So I can't quantify what Nerdfigheria 'makes' on a zoomed out level, but it definitely shaped my life 🌻💙
That is so, so lovely to hear. -John
@@vlogbrothers 🌻💙
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That's awesome! I had a similar experience when our Life's Library shelf was discussing We Crossed a Bridge and It Trembled. The discussion pushed me to finally look up volunteering opportunities, and I'm so grateful for it.
Thank you for sharing this, and thank you for being awesome, Azeema! 💙
The fact you both regularly ask the question who owns nerdfighteria and understand that the value created far outweighs the value captured is a huge part of why this community feels authentic and is still active and caring decades later. It’s why I’ve stuck around for over a decade at the very least
I agree that it has been critical to our longevity (while also being aware that the choice that allowed for that longevity was a function of extreme, extreme privilege). -John
The longevity is also because only certain types of communities are interesting enough to grow yet sustainable enough in their values to last!
I completely agree. I started watching around 12 years ago, and I don’t think I watch any of the other RUclipsrs I watched in 2010 still.
@@vlogbrothers Your longevity is also because you long ago stopped trying to grow, and just let vlogbrothers exist naturally. By not putting pressure on yourselves or your audience, you created a safe space. A space where we are here because we trust you to steward the community appropriately, because you make choices we like. Very few reach such a wide range of ages, genders, countries, socio-economic statuses, etc. You have broad appeal to people who like an idea. Taking the money generated by the idea, and using it to make the idea possible for more people is the best thing you could possibly do with it.
And besides, look at what happens every year for p4a, you ask the community for money and ideas, and you get amazing amounts of both. If we didn't think you were making good choices, this wouldn't happen. By simply asking how we feel, you're showing that you care, and we know you'll actually look at what people say, take it to heart, and continue to make the world a better place.
@@bluetoes591 Beautifully said.
I thought Dave Green had a 100% stake hold but took a hands off approach to ownership
This brought a big and genuine smile to my face. Thanks for the joy in the midst of the chaos of the world today. I love funny people
@@sidneyvand8722 I love people who love funny people.
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We need a "Nerdfighteria for Beginners" vlog. (If there isn't already one)
It just sounds like an overwhelming community to get started in.
Good idea! -John
An Introduction to Nerdfighteria
At the same time I feel there’s better value to be gained from *experiencing* what it is rather than being told what it is
I like this idea. It's safer here on RUclips, however... The discord servers are where the real culture shock happens. I say this with love, of course. I love this community.
You’re already there! I came into this channel about a year into its creation and I think I hesitated to call myself a nerdfighter until about three years ago because I wasn’t in a discord group. Then I talked to some folks on Twitter about it and realized that doing a scavenger hunt or a being in an additional setting outside of this wasn’t necessary. I
Hank’s friday video: Nerdfighteria belongs to Beanie Sandfurbs
I'll be a little disappointed now if it's going to have a different name 😂😭
+ oh wow hahahaha
+please Hank, even if it is about something else
This. This is the only truth.
😂
The fact that there's a wholesome online nation in all this craziness where anyone who honestly wants to do good and be nerdy and find others like them gives me a joy I don't know how to describe yet.
There is nothing funnier to me than explaining to my friends that I'm a nerdfighter. Because even though both your books have gotten here my friends still say "that's a fancy way to say you're a John Green fan" and I tell them I am but I am Hanks fan too and X nerdfighters fan too so they never get it. And we have a nerdfighter group here but still. So I always say that for so many years I was an alien living on earth and one day I watched one vlogbrothers video and I found my planet ♥️ my place. Thank you John and Hank and all of Nerdfighteria for that.
Yes! It’s so hard to explain in a nuanced way. The easiest comparison to make is to describe Nerdfighteria as a sort of fandom space, and it is very interconnected with certain fandom spaces, but it is also fundamentally different. Yes, I am a huge fan of Hank and John, but what has had such a bigger impact on me is the world view that I have built around the values of this community and the experiences I have had within it.
@@autumnbrookesings with my grandma I would say the John Green fans but to everyone else I tell them and if they don't get it that might be a red flag 😂
I highly recommend reading Benedict Anderson’s “Imagined Communities” I’m reading it now and it works to try to understand how groups of people come together under one identity to build a collective. It’s a cool book and very interesting to read in a time of online connection.
Reading that book my main conclusion was that nations are SO WEIRD. -John
this is so weird. an excerpt of his work was in my a level history book! loved the points he made
@@vlogbrothers I love the idea that John read this comment and spent the next hour frantically reading the entirety of the aforementioned book.
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@ParadoxProblems Nah he definitely read that many years ago. It's an old well-known text which is included in every other "new media" and fandom study, along with Textual Poachers by Henry Jenkins.
its an interesting question but its also true, for me at least, that I am often happy to participate in and find value in things while not really being interested in 'owning' it
Agreed! The notion of ownership feels attached to so many troubling assumptions around gatekeeping and who is owed direct benefit, when there's a huge amount of positive value that doesn't have to be a zero-sum game. I find my life enriched by the culture, the content, and the community in a way that doesn't have to take away from anybody else's benefit.
I have been a lonely island on the nerdfighteria globe for as long as I can remember, I am not so good at making friends even online and so I have watched and engaged with the content on this channel alone, even though the fact that I know nerdfighters exist out there has made me feel less lonely ^^
Even this has, in a small way, made the world suck less. Mission accomplished!
Totally agree. I am with you. In that sense, are we actually alone? :) Stay well.
I identify with your words very strongly
I feel this too. I enjoy the videos, but actually integrating into the community takes time: joining the discord, participating in discussions regularly, making circle drawings. I can't say I don't HAVE that time, only that I don't make that time. That said, I also feel glad knowing there are other people from Nerdfightaria who connect through this community on discord and elsewhere. I do hope that someone recognizes my Pizza John shirts some day, but sometimes they're even funnier since they make no sense to anyone but me.
I feel similarly - a close observer of the community, but not quite a part of it. I admire what Nerdfighters have accomplished, and I think they're by and large wonderful people, but for some reason I don't feel comfortable becoming one. And I'm fine with that. It's enough to know that Nerdfighteria exists :)
Hi John, I think part of the reason Nerdfighteria became the awesome place/thing it is today is because you and Hank keep asking yourselves these questions. You handle the community with such respect and care, as it deserves. Thank you for that! - Eva
Thank you, Eva. I think it's also that the community has encouraged us to think more broadly about who's actually creating the value and what the implications are for that with regards to who ends up with the money. But again, that is partly a function of extreme, extreme privilege. Almost nobody who makes videos as a part of their job can afford to pass up on the ad revenue. So I think this model has allowed nerdfighteria to thrive in special ways, but I also think that only happens because of this extreme form of privilege. In short, for me, it's still quite complicated. -John
@@vlogbrothers I don’t think that taking the revenue from your channel would be a problem if you needed it as long as you continued to be conscious of your audience and supportive of the value they created. Of course, some people take it too far by promoting prescription drugs, supplements, and games based on addictive gambling. As long as your method of making money isn’t harmful to the audience and doesn’t compromise your integrity or relationship with them, then I don’t think profiting off your creation would be problematic. Though there is always that inherent power imbalance that comes from profiting off your audience.
@@vlogbrothers theStoryTeller actually made a very similar video the other day that touches on some of these concerns: ruclips.net/video/dh88e9_SAW4/видео.html
@@vlogbrothers I appreciate you noting that. I recently tried to launch a website about frugality and personal finance, but you hit it- there's no way I could do so sustainably without ad revenue. Which is a frustrating position to be in when I see creators like yourself who are doing things ethically in a way I don't feel capable of. But I'm grateful for your thoughts over the years which have tremendously shaped my way of thinking on the topic of internet attention.
It’s a bit circular because the reason the Green bros think about this is because of the thoughtful community that gathered around them due to their thoughtfulness.
Good will begets more good will, I suppose?
"Hank from having 12 million jobs" - John Green
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I mean, that's the only way I know how to describe it? -John
@@vlogbrothers never before have I heard a more accurate description of Hank.
C E O entrepreneur,
Born in 1984,
Henry,
Henry 'Hank' Green!
Come on Henry, you can do it.
Pave the way, put your back into it.
Sell that merch, make that vlog,
Look at lots of TikToks, and go pet a dog.
PragerU and FOX and Crowder,
Amateurs just shouting louder,
Slam their lies, crush their tweets,
Come on, Hank, GET EM!
🎼🎶🎵🎹
This also happens to be Hank's net worth, according to Google. Coincidence?
Maybe.
"Imaginary gardens with real toads in them" remind me of Ours Poetica, yet another Nerdfighteria creation.
New season coming soon! ruclips.net/video/5ECAiuawqR0/видео.html -John
@@vlogbrothers yay!
Where is that quote from? I’d like to check out the book 👍
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"Who owns nerdfighteria?" Is I think a question wrongly put, I don't think we own nerdfighteria, we are nerdfighteria
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Yes, I think that is the answer. But if we all own it together, then we need to be careful to make sure that the value that gets created gets captured together. The way we're trying to do that currently is by spending the money in ways that hopefully reflect the values of the community--through grants to educational creators and donations to charity. But I also want to be conscious of the fact that Hank and I have benefited tremendously (financially and otherwise) from nerdfighteria, even though I don't own it or generate most of the value in it. And that's a complicated thing to navigate I think. -John
+ Can somebody put that on a shirt?
@@vlogbrothers then it sounds like you're navigating that with humility, gratitude, and charity too. I'd say you're doing okay and thanks for paving the way for such an amazing community.
@@vlogbrothers I think you’re not giving things like DFTBA and the Awesome Socks club enough credit. Nerdfighters build off of your videos and create value, but you have both worked hard to give them the ability to capture that value for themselves while also helping the world around them.
Today is the first time I have heard that you don’t profit off of vlogbrothers videos, and I think that goes a long way to negating your concern about hoarding the value.
Gosh I'm so consistently proud to be a nerdfighter. What a safe place it's been for me for over a decade. Thanks everyone ❤️
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I think I actually used this book as a reference in my essay last month about how creatives and the law struggle with the idea of ownership of creative expression in the digital age.
I've become a hardcore nerdfighter after having my first introduction to the vlogbrothers six months ago. The thing I love about this community is how often we question ourselves - our beliefs, our actions, and our understanding of ourselves. John doing precisely that in this video is a great example of this
I'm travelling at the moment, but when i saw the notification and clicked on it my first thought was "thank god, a sense of home even if ts a digital space"
What I find so special about nerdfighteria on a platform like RUclips: how common and accepted it is to disagree with each other, and with you and your brother John, and how this is handled in a respectful manner.
That's something that's sadly not in every RUclips community (and way beyond that) the case.
We are Batpeople!
I started being part of Nerdfighteria when I was about to turn 12, and here I am 9 years later about to turn 21. In many ways, Nerdfighteria has made me. It's been a big part of my life for so many of my formative years and has really shaped the way I think about the world and my place in it. I think Nerdfighteria has helped me approach the world through nuance and compassion and I am so grateful for it and for everything it and you both do.
Whenever you ask for our input on these things, I always think, "But you've got it all figured out!" That you can spend so much time learning about these social constructs and still feel unsure... Either the complexity of the world is infinite or your humility is. Probably both.
I’m glad you like my TAR pizza john :,) i have a lot of feelings now
I recently had two encounters with nerdfighters in the wild. And to say those moments brought me joy is an understatement.
How did you realise they were nerdfighters?
@@adrianthoroughgood1191 the first time I was wearing a pizza John shirt and the second time I had project for awesome merch.
I have been a Nerdfighter since 2011, and Jennifer Burek Pierce was my advisor when I got my Masters in Library Science in 2017, and this is the most surreal video I have ever experienced. The world is so small for how large it is.
My brother loves to sit down with me and help transcribe videos, and it feels really nice to know that I/we might be helping in a way that makes a difference!
Thank you for your work.
Thanks!!
I'm currently working on a book about the history and culture of fandom, so I've bookmarked this book (and this video!) for later! Thanks for the resources!
I think trying to figure out who owns Nerdfighteria is similar to “great man history”. Beautiful things are created in groups :)
Nerdfighteria gave me a home. a concept that enabled me to enjoy my days on earth rather than "get through" each day. From the depths of my heart, thank you brothers green.
The description of a community that creates things together, one building on another's work and extending it in new and exciting ways, reminds me of the
artists' communes that thrived in the US and Europe in the 60s and 70s.
Those people didn't worry too much abput who did what and where the credit should go, but mainly wanted to make a difference together.
It also reminded me of the Israeli Kibbutz, when it was still anchored in hard work and sharing everything - the work, the reward, effectively making it
a big family.
I think that the online community you and other share is so important as an example of how people can be coerced to extract the best of them,
in spite of the everyday noise trying to lull us into loneliness.
It makes me SO happy to be a part of this community. I've been here since I was 9 and I'm in my 20s now. I'm so glad that the online community I grew up in was a force for good. Nerdfighteria has undeniably been a force for good in my life. Helping me grow into a caring and compassionate person. Considering what could have happened had I found myself in a different community at such a young age, I'm glad I'm where I am now.
It has been such an honor to watch this book take shape as my friend and colleague worked on it for so long. I would urge Nerdfighters to take a look at the timeline of Nerdfighteria in the appendix, and appreciate the dedicated scholarly labor of love it was and just how much the places of Nerdfighteria are saved, collected, and compiled in that document. It may be located in the appendix, but it's not an afterhought. It's a gift. She wrangled, organized, documented and remembered our history in a fast-moving age of forgetting.
"Money is nowhere near the most important thing that Nerdfighteria makes"
I think the issue is that nerdfighteria transcends capitalism while also being caught up in it
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That's an excellent point - the whole concept is essentially a small step to the left and a slightly shifted perspective on 'no ethical consumption under capitalism'.
I've been trying to expand the realm of books I read to books not connected to Nerfighteria, but now I really want to read this book that is apparently, explicitly about Nerfighteria
I am always so happy to help make Nerdfighteria exist, this is such a wonderful place.
i adore your phrasing and how it seems to emphasise that nerdfighteria doesn't exist passively, but by the continued, intentional engagement of nerdfighters
@@m.w.kaplan447 Yes, exactly. Thank you
nice title! almost feels like i picked it
Payton the Green's social media manager
HOORAY FOR PAYTON!!! 🎉
I think Twitter picked it
I will forever be grateful for this community and these creators for the phrase "imagine others complexly". When I'm lucky enough to catch myself being judgemental or petty this phrase has a way of creeping in and making me a better person. Not because I'm not judgemental or petty but because I can acknowledge it and give a second thought that gives me an opportunity to reevaluate my position and maybe, just maybe, see someone in a different light. Thank you
Please never stop doing these!! This channel is one of the only things that hasn't changed on RUclips!
Over a decade later and I am still enchanted by the Vlog brothers. Thanks for your transparency and all you do!
I think the fact that the conversation about ownership, revenue, and how the money should be allocated is happening at all is one of the extraordinary things about this community. I wish more creators would engage in this level of discussion about profits. While I definitely want the creators I enjoy to get paid so they can, you know, live, I am always so exhilarated to know how much money from Nerdfighteria goes to charity.
"Who owns nerdfighteria?" I love the question, even if it is wrongly put.
As an author, I get tons of advice and ideas from my readers. Those ideas have significantly changed the trajectory of the overall series. Does all who offered advice own a share? If I own it, do I own the meaning of it?
John said something I really love.I doubt it was his originally and I paraphrase but, "Once a book is written, it, in a way, belongs to the readers. If the readers interpret the work differently than the creator, the reader is right."
Maybe, when any of us create anything good, and add it to the world, it becomes its own thing separate from the creator in the same way a child separates from their parents to become their own person. The parent can be rightly proud of every good thing their child does, but they do not own their child.
I’m only gonna speak to the book royalty part. We didn’t write those. Writing is hard. You work hard at it. It is a long and labor intensive process (mental labor counts!) Do with that money what you will. Same for Hank.
I get the sense that Hank and John frequently feel guilty about making money and being successful. I really wish that they wouldn't.
Reaching people, dispersing ideas, facilitating the creation of connections, and highlighting important things is a perfectly reasonable thing to be compensated doing and the fact that they are successful at doing it makes it all the more reasonable that they should be compensated well.
@@JohnWVarner I think it’s more their level of compensation versus, like, the rest of the world’s population.
Hank and John have done such a fantastic job building up a very conscious community, and consciously utilizing the many resources this community builds, collects, and creates!
I believe Nerdfighteria has helped a whole lot more people than just you, John, finding where they belong and how to be a better version of themselves. Thank you for all the great work you do even though it might not always appear to be much to you, the seeds you plant in other people’s hearts and minds has blossomed beautifully over the years and it is always amazing to see all that comes from it. I hope this can go on for a long time. Keep on DFTBA-ing with us!
I've been a part of Nerdfighteria for over a decade now, having been pulled into the arms of this community via an index card in a used copy of An Abundance of Katherines. This is still my favorite neighborhood in the vast virtual world.
I am so grateful for nerdfighteria. I would never have met my ex girlfriend who wouldnt have taught me, indireftly, my own self worth if not for nerdfighteria nor would i have found myself more generally without you all. You all have brought me so, so much joy in the past ~14ish years and I am so glad to have been a part of it.
The reason that nerdfighteria is so valuable in the first place is that you and Hank have been shaping it into a pleasant space by being pleasant people.
And because you give so much back to the community, we feel like you deserve every benefit that comes with it. We already benefit from the (mostly free) content you provide.
And we know that the content that isn't free (the merchandise, the awesome socks club, etc) provides money to causes we care about.
It's more than okay to benefit from being a force for good :)
I’m pretty happy just getting a share of the dopamine and serotonin.
Though as someone who only discovered vlogbrothers and nerdfightaria 7 months ago, I’d love a way to feel like I was contributing more. I have skills I don’t know what to do with 😅
I have no answers but I take comfort knowing you think so deeply about the questions
My art made the thumbnail! I'm so honored.
And the background!
I’m not a big participator in nerdfighteria but I have been following you forever. The norms of nerdfighteria: liking things is cool, imagining people complexly, and collboration have absolutely changed my life for the better. So i’m happy to be a part of this community that I am also not a part of. :)
I readily think of 'ownership' through the lens of my faith - in which God gives to us what he wills, so that we might give away what we're given, and participate in a great giving that keeps going. It's the pattern for good living. I think the giving and giving-back that nerdfighteria does (including you, John) makes the community flourish. And it's good that we keep on reflecting on what we have and how we can give well - it will help us keep doing it and do it better.
So much of who I am comes from Nerdfighteria. I’ve been watching since 2013 and this channel and this community have shaped the way that I think about things and the way that I interact with the world. I’m very grateful that I’m able to be a part of it!
It is hard to feel responsible to decide where to draw a line between what you want to give away and what you want to keep as your well-earned personal benefits. That is much more than a person with a normal profession has to face.
From my perspective though, your finding and promoting a few carefully chosen charities is yet another gift from you. You investing your time, attention and resources to support a charity is enough reason for me to support them as well, because I trust you. It has never been a question for me how much money from your projects should go to charity, but I am grateful some of it does. I would never see you as a treasurer of this community, but you are its role model. How much of your time and money should go into supporting charities - as a question it feels similar to "how many times do you want to revise a draft of your book". It is your life same as it is your book, and I am only its fan.
This response comes in four parts:
1) Thinking of Nerdfighteria as an actual location seems like a form of skeuomorphism. As new forms of culture are created they often retain the form of their predecessors, even when there is no intrinsic need to do so. Consider the save icon in any Microsoft product; when was the last time you interacted with an actual 3.5mm floppy disk? Of course, there is great extrinsic need for these touchstones to sometimes forgotten past. Things change so quickly that a familiar "face" to a new idea probably helps us situate it within the larger cultural context. I feel that we are already straining to adapt to the rate of change we have foisted upon ourselves, every little advantage helps.
2) Should value created be captured? I mean, from one point of view I can see the argument that some person or entity is probably going to "capture" monetary value that can be obtained, so it might as well be someone I trust more, like John, Hank, or the Vlogbrothers entity than an entity like Google. But, on another hand, over ten years Vlogbrothers videos have helped me think deeper and differently about the world. To me, and as John notes at the end of the video, there is enormous value in this, if we use value in the "richer," not necessarily monetary, sense. Who should "capture" that value, if it ought be captured at all?
One might make the argument that I have "captured" it? Certainly I feel enriched by the experience. But if I have captured the value, then, paradoxically, I am the poorer for it. If I share the thoughts and have conversations with people who think similarly or, especially, those who disagree, then I feel that even more value has been created. I see value in avoiding Nerdfighter $$$ going to merchandisers who run sweatshops or technocrats as much as possible. This is probably too idealistic to be realistic, and I would be greatly enriched if someone with a more practical but still ideal solution solution suggested it to me.
3) On a related note, who owns Nerdfighteria? Our culture seeks to ascribe ownership to too many things. It is a very efficient way to run things, but I don't think it is a good way to run them.
4) Lastly, where should the line be drawn for Hank and John extracting value from Vlogbrothers/Nerdfighteria? I would hardly begrudge anyone enough income to live comfortably on (owning one home, travelling at times, eating as one chooses to eat). I wish everyone had access to a reasonable facsimile of this (owning the home might be out of the question, but a safe place to live does not need to be and, consequentially, should not be). Sadly, in our current culture finances are generally a prerequisite to security and our society does little to ensure people have steady finances, so a little extra to cushion against downturns in fortune is also reasonable. But how much is "a little extra"? One year's cushion, a decade...? This is a tough question, but well worth considering even if I doubt there is a "right" answer.
My brother and I talk a lot about the power of the example you and Hank have set for internet communities. I don’t think the line really exists in the same way as a path on google maps - I think he best one can hope for is a steady sense of direction, and to keep true to that cardinal direction. In this case, Nerdfighteria and the two of you, in symbiotic step, have pushed the envelope in the direction of generosity, philanthropy, creativity, and community. I don’t believe there is a perfect balance for money/ownership/etc, particularly not yet when these systems are so young - but I think it I absolutely crucial to be facing the right way with full integrity and heart. That is what I see here, and that is why I’ve stayed ❤️🥰
Nerdfighteria to me is thoughts, a value, and acceptance. These are all very powerful, I as a person have changed for the better because of this community.
There's also the intangible but "super-value" inherent in strengthening a more just mindset and the likelihood that Nerdfiterians will spread that mindset wherever they go. I feel so much deep in my heart when I think about what John and Hank are sharing. I hope I share that with others in my day-to-day life.
I’ve been thinking about nerdfighteria a lot in the last couple of months and every day I’m grateful for this community (and of course you and hank) because I have a place to express my excitement for life and also to be understood in my moments of hopelessness.
+++this community is indeed awesome!
+
I finally got Tuesdays with a free early period. John videos on time I return to you 🧡
I think part of the value of Nerdfighteria is how it makes people want to be nicer, more generous people. This in turn is shared with others and generates more value. Whatever value Nerdfighteria generates isn't kept in the community, but rather is shared to the wider world.
Okay, I'm going to admit, that I do roll my eyes a little every time the Vlogbrothers pitch a book by one of them, but I'll also say, I don't begrudge either of you the proceeds from book sales, no matter how you market them. When I watch TV (well, when I used to watch TV) and there was a promo for the new sitcom from that network nestled among the various pharmaceutical ads, I didn't ever think I was entitled to some of the proceeds from said sitcom and I think this is a good analogy. And, honestly, I wouldn't begrudge you taking income from these videos. I am proud of you that you have chosen to donate 100% of those proceeds, and I am glad you are able to do so. And I appreciate the feeling that this isn't your project but instead is a thing that we all build together and that there is some unfairness in how the fruits are distributed. But I also think that if RUclips had never been monetized, this community could still be as awesome, as loving, as compassionate as it is now. And even if it had never generated any cash flow that could be used to help people around the world, we might well have pooled our resources in other ways. Maybe the scale would be smaller (maybe) but I feel it would be much the same community we've grown to love.
You two are the Dads of Nerdfighteria. You're not responsible for everything that gets created by Nerdfighteria, but nothing in Nerdfighteria would be where it is without the community you've created and then raised. Also sometimes it's just nice to listen to our internet dads when real parents can't always be reached out to.
I loved the book and I'm glad John did as well! It was a great read with interesting and thoughtful considerations of new media communities and how we create today.
One thing I think most of us can agree on is that the value that Nerdfighteria has brought to not only our direct community (Nerdfighteria) but also to other communities is far more valuable than the unintentional money made with it. The fact that your careers have in the end, benefitted from the community in these kinds of ways, I think is just another unexpected benefit that comes from the community. The thing is, this community is built around some core values we all share in some way, with its own rules and norms. And those values that we share with you, you have proven throughout the years that you do share them and that you do act on them. You have shown us that you are not greedy or exceedingly selfish (we should all be a little selfish, I think), that when you do things, it is not with hidden intentions but with an earnest desire to do good and decrease worldsuck. We know you wouldn't take more than you think is rightly yours, and the fact that you already take less than what might legally be yours shows that you are holding yourself accountable in the way that the whole of us would. I think you know better than any of us, how much of it would really be YOURS vs the community's. (communities? I'm embarrassed for this one ngl). I personally think you have the right to keep any extra royalties you've made from your work gaining popularity throughout the community. But like others are saying, if you feel that there's an amount you shouldn't be keeping, that's ultimately a decision only you can make and doing charity and education things with it would reflect Nerdfighteria well. No matter where it's going, I know it's going to decrease worldsuck, even if it is just going into your wallet. :)
More than anything I’m consistently impressed by how long this community has been around, and how supportive and special it feels. Between books and educational projects this channel and it’s community specifically feels like a tiny oasis. The fact that it (and by extension, you and Hank) has stayed clear of the typical trappings of any online community centered around “creators” is insane. I can’t call you guys like, underrated, because your work reaches so many people and is so well known even outside the Internet sphere, and also that would be doing a disservice to the amazing people already in this community. But I do think that Nerdfighteria deserves every ounce of appreciation it gets and more.
“Me from selling books, Hank from having 12 million jobs” 😂
These questions and the thought put into it is why we love Nerdfighteria
I squealed and immediately bought the paper version of the book! So much love for nerdfighters in academia
There is an extremely interesting divide created by people who were socialized into the capitalist dogma and those who have eventually questioned it. For example, many people would say that all the money you make is yours and you can do whatever you like with it. While this is facts from a capitalistic viewpoint, your acknowledgement of community sourcing and the importance of recognizing it speaks to a deeper answer. Socialistic ideals propagate because they ring true on some level. Even on a level that capitalist have to acknowledge. You grow the society and the society, now stronger, will support you back. This active self preservation, on an idealogical level, makes absolute sense economically.
Thank you for talking about these issues opening. I think it is only with open dialogue that we can grow.
I'm so thrilled that the person who suggested they would crosstich that and send it to John in fact did so.
Democratized workplaces I think are the best way to ascribe value to input. Relying on norms is an indirect way to do so in a decentralized community structure.
You act in good faith and value fairness, which gets you most of the way there most of the time. Optimizing for true fairness is a fool’s errand because that often relies on moral judgement that will vary from person to person.
I'm glad the lady who made the embroidery ended up deciding to send it to you, I recall she wasn't going to initially
I don’t know if I want to buy or make the embroidered “it’s not normal to sneeze” art
same!!! The phrase lives in my head rent free
Every time I sneeze that thought comes into my head now.
The way the two of you treat your wealth (at least from an outsider's perspective) is I think how all rich people should. You obviously live quite comfortably, but you use your wealth to help other people through jobs at Complexly, charity donations, and the educational videos you make. I'm happy to support your endeavors wherever I am able, and help create the value where I can, because I think you guys are good leaders of this community. I guess if you royally screwed up, I'd try to find another community similar, but that would be hard. Also, there isn't another RUclips channel I've been watching continuously for almost 12 years, and there's value in the familiarity.
I made a presentation to my professors on what inspired me to make art, and there was a whole section for Vlogbrothers and Nerdfighteria, and it was only as I created that presentation that I realized how it had influenced me down to what kind of things I think about when I create.
I think the biggest thing Nerdfighteria creates is community. I am not an active member of this community but I feel it all the same. I know if I am out someplace and see someone wearing something nerdfighter related, that is someone from my community. I am extremely unlikely to approach that person, but it still hits me that we are connected somehow, and that feels good. I broadens my world and hopefully does that for others also.
Back in the ning days it Nerdfighteria really was a physical space in my mind, now that I think about it. We talked about it all the time as like a small town with different buildings or a school with different rooms and a movie theater where we would all gather to watch vlogbrothers videos
I must say, the fact that Hank and John don't try to copyright every little thing that comes out of Nerfighteria makes me very happy. There's so much good fanart out there that would not exist if that were the case!
I'm just here to say that as of today, I've watched every single vlogbrothers video (at least the ones that are still available on youtube, there were a few I couldn't find). This journey started on March 2020, right after lockdown had begun, and as a long time sub (probably since 2011) who didn't always watch the videos and stopped watching for a few years, I'm so glad to have rediscovered you guys. There were many things I still think about from your videos, mostly about what John said of imagining people complexly, and what Hank said on a video where he starts by saying that a certain bridge didn't fall. Norse Fighters! I mean Nerdfighters. Don't forget to be awesome.
I will be thinking about the name "Ebenezer Never-Sneezer" for far too long now
I thought it was never-sneezer scrooge
@@hexeddecimals I think Ebenezer Never-Sneezer is even better. Or just have the full name be Ebenezer Never-Sneezer Scrooge.
@@bhagad y e s
Well now I will be too! lol
I love this place. I don't participate much but I'd love to be more involved :). Thanks to everyone who makes this internet space so wholesome
You may get the money, but we get the intangibles. This is a safe, homey space for us to come to whenever we need it. I've had a really hard week and a half, and this video just felt like a hug.
DFTBA indeed.
Anyone else relieved when John's eyebrows finally went down at 1:02? :D
Also, it is impossible to quantify the mental stability and lives this channel has saved by being the safe place we’ve all curated. That is workforce, it is family income, it is a ripple reaching out and embracing us all.
Nerdfighteria got me through some really rough patches over the past 10ish years. I will be forever grateful that this massive, amazing "place" sprung up as an island oasis on the often tumultuous ocean that is the internet. Regardless of who "owns" it, I'm glad I'm here 💜
I’m relatively new to this community (discovered it first back in 2018) so I don’t know who owns it but boy am I so glad for its existence, as a foreigner who lived alone in the US and now in Japan.. watching your videos weekly and then reading the comments section never fails to make me feel like I’m part of something valuable and this sense of belongingness to me is priceless. Nerdfighteria makes me laugh even when I’m under terrible burden of destiny and loneliness and for that I’m eternally thankful.
Vlogbrothers and nerdfighteria and all the good that comes with them is what gives me the most hope for the future
I’m a part of NerdFighteria Kitchen on FB and it’s such a lovely subcommunity that encourages my desire to make good food & ask how to do kitchen things when Google fails me and I don’t have RL support
I love nerdfighteria so much. So happy to be here in community with all of you.
I trust that you and Hank are keeping enough of the revenues to live comfortable and fulfilling personal lives. I trust you to be honest with yourselves about how much that is.
I think it's good and right that the rest should be used to support Nerdfighteria and to decrease world suck.
These sort of videos remind me that Nerdfighteria is not just the name of a fandom, but a functioning force for growth and change. They remind me why I'm so grateful to be a part of a community that values art and justice and joy and reality.
I’ve been consistently watching and supporting Hank and John since I was 11 and I’m going to turn 21 in a month. This video is exactly one of the reasons that they have remained my favs since I’ve first joined the internet (them and Dan and Phil)
WAIT the broccoli tree is still alive!? I think about that story all the time. This makes me very happy.
I would also like more information about the Brocolli Tree's current status!
When it comes to who should receive money from a project, a lot of people think fairness or equality should be a big part of that, but I've always admired how nerdfighteria seems to put compassion above both of those.
This is definitely something I’ve thought about over the decade-ish I’ve been a part of Nerdfighteria. I’ve always loved the charitable aspect of this community, it crops up in nearly everything we do! I’m not qualified to talk about the non-rhetorical questions you posed, but just wanted to say I’m very grateful to have grown up amongst such a king and giving community. ❤️
Even still involved in Kiva and always try for a Nerdfighter recommendation!
i saw the title and m first thought was "we do" we including you and me, john and hank, everyone at complexly, everyone who has seen even just a handful of vlog brothers videos. that's the cool thing about it. the limitlessness of the sharing of community.
Your writing is your labor and you deserve those royalties.
every vlogbrothers video I watch, fills me with some type of energy, I can't put my finger on it but god do I love it!!!