Dennis, that was about the most comprehensive explanation of dust collection I've seen on RUclips to date. If I may add a few points, first is you touched on "Velocity" when discussing the issue with your table saw. Maintaining velocity in a "Ducted" system is crucial to ensure that the dust and chips don't drop out of the air flow and build up somewhere causing it to clog. I would offer a suggestion that you could go back to your original closed designed on your zero clearance insert and open the table saw cabinet back up. The air flow needs to be in the cabinet to clear it out and carry the dust and chips away, just my two cents on that one. 😁 Secondly, dust collectors that have the pump before the filter have a low tolerance gap (12mm/1/2" or more) built in between the impeller and the pump housing. This is to ensure that any large chips or wood chunks don't get wedged between the blades and the housing that could cause damage to either. This gap allows a high air flow to be generated but when any restriction is applied to it, it will recycle internally around the gap between the blade and the pump housing causing the flow to drop or even stop. Therefore, these pumps can't build high pressure. Also, the motor is outside the air flow and has its own built is fan for cooling, so if the air flow is stopped, the motor isn't affected. These are best used for large equipment. On high pressure pumps the impeller has a very high tolerance fit between the impeller and the pump housing, usually measured in thousands of an inch or hundreds of a millimeter. This is key to reducing internal recycling to a minimum to allow it to build pressure. Therefore, it is placed after the filter because these tight tolerances can't withstand any dust or debris to get in and wear in out. And the impeller is of a half or fully closed vein type with a pump housing that has a volute designed to build pressure. Also, the motor relies solely on the dust collection air flow for its cooling, which means that you can't restrict it by choking it down to fit a smaller line or tool without opening a bleed vent between the reduction in line or tool to maintain air flow for motor cooling. This is true for shop vacs too! I have an Oneida Supercell, it has three 1.6 H.P. high pressure pumps that each move about 180 CFM/305 MH for a total of about 540 CFM/ 915 MH. I use it for my main ducting in my garage shop but still rely on my Festool CTMIDI for single tool use. All the Best Dennis, Chuck
Hi Chuck, thanks for your information. I tried the regular zero clearance insert with the opening holes "air ventilation gabs" of the cabinet saw. But the results were better with the zero clearance insert with the air intakes. But I still have the air ventilation gaps open, also. You are right about airspeed. The problem is, there is so much to talk about this subject, and I found it hard to choose the right items, do not make it too complex because before you know it, it becomes a very complex story, and viewers with too little patience of knowledge of the subject would be overwhelmed. So, it was the hardest video so far, information-wise. But again, thanks for your input.
@@HookedonWood Hey Dennis, regarding your zero clearance insert, sometimes you have to go with what works. Dust collection or extraction is a simple term for what is actually the much more complex science of fluid dynamics. I'm not an expert on the subject by any means, but I have 30yrs of practical experience working with it as a process operations foreman and turnaround planner with Shell Oil. There I worked closely with chemical and mechanical engineers on units that moved millions of standard cubic feet a day of various gases at pressures from 3000psi or 200+Bars down to 15 inches of mercury, or half a Bar. Along with all the various pumps and compressors, large and small that moved it, not to mention the mile of pipes and hundreds of valves that transported and controlled it. Your video presented the information in a way that best conveyed what most would need to know. For that, I applaud you! 👍 OH yeah, I see you have a Hammer A3-31, I had one too, a very nice machine, but turned it in for a Felder AD-531, a really nice machine, you know to go with my FB-510. 🤦♂️ Sorry, I know I'm a jerk, but you have a genuinely nice workshop, and I must work out of a two-car garage that I still have to park my wife's car in, sometimes. 😢 All the Best, Chuck
Great information and delivery. Most people do not understand the physics behind flow (air and fluid are very similar) and when they plumb systems, they use too many bends and too many diameter changes. I have dealt with fluid and air flow in work for MANY years and have first hand experience, both in success and failure. Thanks again! Edit: And that zero clearance insert is awesome! What a great way to get airflow almost exactly at the needed spot! Terrific!
I too sealed all the gaps on my old contractor TS and only had a shop vac to draw out the dust. After a year of use I had to get inside the cabinet to fix something. The inside cavity was 25% full of saw dust. Only the space above the duct opening was clear so I agree some air intake is needed to create turbulence and move more dust. Your videos are very well organized and the explanations are bang on. Thank you for sharing.
Micro dust is the biggest issue for the lungs. If you can create a situation where the airflow in the room is constantly dragging 'polluted' air away from ones face towards the outside of the room (we used quiet 12" industrial fans), with fresh clean air coming in from the other side of the room. ( Complicated when zero degrees outside). I ran a MDF workshop for years and it was amazingly dust free. AND most importantly, our dust extractor was NOT in the same room as the workers but in a separate storage shed where people were not working. Hence, zero extractor noise, and zero micro dust from the extractor in the workshop.
Agreed. For us smaller/home shop people... If you have the option, exhaust the dust extractor air to the outside and allow fresh air to come in. I'm looking to add a selectable splitter to my impeller exhaust between it and the 1-micron canister filter, so I can select the canister (winter when I can't allow fresh air in) and direct exit to outside (summer when I can allow fresh air in). Otherwise, I try and do any sanding outside whenever possible... the biggest source of extra fine dust.
thank you dennis! i just put in a small shopvac system for my shop and it works awesomely? it's 2" PVC piping run along one wall around 14' long run into a shop vac pulling 148 CFM. works like a champ. my point being as you stated. research EVERYTHING! lol. this would be too small for most other guys. but works very well for what little i do. again thanks for a clear and enjoyable visit! best to you and the family in these troubled time! cheers! rick
I really enjoy these dust extraction videos. Very helpful. I would like more reviews of your setup including the Laguna unit you references towards the end of your video.
Hey Dennis, excellent content. You really worked hard on this (and the other ones as well I might add), please keep up this outstanding work. I know making them must be VERY time consuming!! Cheers, Joe
What a great video. Dust collection--at least, really good dust collection--is a complicated multivariate issue, and this was such a well-explained and well-illustrated summary. Well done!
Meant to mention: as I'm trying to set up a shop right now, and currently just using 3 vacuum cleaners in various places right by our machines, I've been wondering whether simply having a couple of box fans pointed at me from behind while using the tablesaw might be a good addition. I hope it can keep much of the fine uncaptured dust moving away from me, as a cheap 'high-volume' solution, with another box fan just beyond aimed out the door of the shop (this in addition to a dust filter system like the Laguna). Nothing is perfect, but defense in depth may be a good approach: personal high-quality mask, dust collection for the machine, high-volume fresh air from behind me, flushing the shop, and ambient air cleaner all together.
Dennis, wow really nice work on your most recent videos. They have always been good, but your work on the content, sound, lighting, and a bunch of things I’m sure I’m not aware of, really shines. Same for your choice of words, I can tell they are well thought out. Great tip on the table saw, about it having make-up air.
You have explained all of the important facts in detail, but also in a manner that is easy to understand (and not boring). I have a DeWalt DWE7485 and I find that a lot of dust escapes not so much from the actual exhaust pipe, but from various other culprits. Maybe, in one of your future videos, you can offer ideas re. dust extraction when dealing with a similar table saw as the DWE7485.
I love your videos, they are very useful for me, I take advantage of them twice as I learn English and the good ideas you give on your channel, thank you very much for sharing your wisdom. You now have a new subscriber.
Another great video Dennis. You have come a long way since the start of your You Tube journey. Always appreciate your easy presentation and well explained information. Thank you. Allan
I appreciate your content on dust collection. You helped me realize that my intent on using a 2HP dust collection system with its complex piping system would ultimately be a failure for my smaller equipment. Currently all of my tools have a 2-1/2" or smaller port. I also liked what you demonstrated with the CamVac system, that it's my next purchase. What are your thoughts on a piping layout for the CamVac system for a run of under 50' related to these points: Pipe size of 2", 3", or 4"? Vertical runs less than 8'? Keep up the great work!
Thank You!! I’ve been a hobby woodworker for almost 9 years and there was a good bit of information I did not know. I will use what you’ve shared with us to help in my shop set up. Subscribed!
Great video. Very informative. I will respectfully disagree on the point automatically keeping the ducting the same size as the inlet of your DC however. Many 3HP and larger DCs will have 7-8" inlets or larger and I think making your ducting that size is just a waste. The sp loss is very close to a 6" ducting (for the main lines) but you pay alot more for the larger ducting. This of course assumes it's for a small one man shop operating 1 machine at a time. The larger ducting would show it's worth in a production shop where multiple machines were running at the same time.
Excellent video - clear advice without processing that perfection is within our grasp. My shop is about 30 square metres and has the usual array of table saw, band saw, planer/thicknesses, router table, lather, Mortiser plus, of course, power tools. I agree with all your principles - keep it as large as possible for as long as possible; keep it as straight as possible; keep bends as gentle as possible but also have blast gates as near to the Y junction as possible. I recently bought a Falco/itech 3hp cyclone extractor (I’ve got a teething problem with but hope the supplier will sort that out). It comes with a 200mm inlet high up on the machine. So, I’m installing 200mm metal dusting hanging from the ceiling and following all the principles I laid out. Some of my machines have to brought out into the middle of the shop if I want to band saw 2.5m lengths for example (5m of space needed). So I have a single port which comes to the middle and has 2 x 45 degree bends and then a 200 to 100 sloped reducer - all ending just above my head. When I want to move my planer or bandsaw out, I connect that machine with its 100mm outlet to the end of the reduce using magport fixings. Very simple and the least complicated that I could find. I use either a large 2 motor Numatic vacuum (excellent and I found it to be far better than the Record Power) or a Festool midi vac for my power tools. I also have a Record Power AC100 (?) air cleaner I can’t get perfection. I can usually make improvements but you would never be able to assemble electronic in my shop. I use a air meter (quite cheap) to measure the amount of dust in the air. If I feel it’s high or if I feel the next operation will produce a lot of dust, then I put on my Trend crash helmet and know that although the ship is getting some dust, I’m not.
Another interesting and very informative video Dennis. I’m particularly interested to understand more about the Laguna and air filtration in general in combination with dust extraction.
Thanks Dennis, my CamVac (like yours) arrived today and I'm looking forward to setting it up. I wasn't able to determine if you used yours with an cyclone. If you did how was the performance?
I did not use a cuclone, but because the canvac is a high pressure system, the cyclone will not effect it that much. The same is with the angles of your duct network or flexible hose. This is killing for your High volume system, but almost no problem for a high pressure system. Have fun with it. Good choice👍👌
Very well said, Dennis. But then you are always up; on knowing what is going on. We are honored to have a genius like you kind sir. And I'm very glad you showed that a 5" duct is much better than a 4" duct. Even though they look close. But they aren't. When we do the mathematics! Like... ...if we have a 5", "25 cubit" duct (5 x 5) compared with a 4", "16 cubit" (4 X 4). Thus 16 cubit divided by 25 cubits = 64%. Meaning: a 5" duct is 36% better than a 4" Duct. As Dennis said. So whenever, in a wood-shop, always pay the money for duct collectors have at leas 5" inlets. NO less. And even better: it has a 6" at least in the outlet. And a 7" outlet at least. Then use a step-down duct (6">5") in the inlet; which creates and increase in the flow high. And there is a scientific name in physics for that; but I can't remember what it is. Anyone? Very import. Meaning many duct collectors are NOT what they are said to be. Sad, but true. So if you are planning a new ducting system in your shop...Please DO the research and make sure it will be the Duct Collection you wanted it to be. For if you make mistakes; you will have wasted what you wanted and your pocket. That has happened with many! Sad, but OH so True dear folks. Not to mention the "silly ducts" in MOST manufactured machines. Where there, in some, there is NO way to really collect dust; that is flying off a blade @ 3400 RPM's. Oh yeah! When will they learn that simple fact absolute for over 200 yrs! May you have good luck! For "I been there before"! And is AINT funny! Sorry Dennis, for such a long comment.
After watching this I think you just solved my problem to much flex hose. I’ll reduce it as much as I can and see if that improves it. Thanks for the great advice and tips
Thanks for this explanation but I am now in a bit of a doubt. I’ve ordered a Hammer A3-31 last weekend and was considering a Camvac with 2 motors especially for the A3. Would that be a good choice for a small hobby workshop? I don’t have space for a very large dust extractor. I was also thinking to add the Record Power ac400 for the micro dust
Dennis, that is very good and concise information. Thank you. Bill Pentz (the designer of some of ClearVue's cyclones) agrees with you on the fact that carrying your inlet size all the way to your machine is necessary for the best airflow and performance, but he also adds that the form and airflow allowances for the dust shroud near blade is crucial. Your video on the improvements to your ZCI showed this quite well. Nice work Sir!
I have to commend you on another helpful video Dennis. I saw your recent video on the new router table where you have installed the same router setup as I have (INCRA lift with the AUK router motor plus the INCRA Cleansweep dustbox) and because I've seen your shop layout, I wondered if you have this connected to your Record Camvac 2kW dust extractor and how this whole router table system is performing with dust collection. I seek your help because I was about to purchase the same Record Camvac model but the Incra Cleansweep installation datasheet states I need 350cfm for which i would need the triple motor Record Camvac, so what do you think? Thank you
Hi Colin, Yes I use the Camvac for this, I think it is a better dust extractor for the router table as well because of the small gab at the top of your router table. I think the Camvac creates more extraction because of the high pressure system. The 2 camvac is enough and holds my INCRA clean sweep box clean. a thing to consider is that I can not close my Clean sweep box. The blast gate at the underside leaks to much air, so I hade to place another because I would loose too much pressure in the rest of the system. I do have a 3 motors version on this moment. But that creates so much pressure that my cyclone almost implodes when I run it with the router and a workpiece covers the holes. The 3 motor version creates a lot of pressure. I think for a jointer/planer the 3 motors can be interesting but in average use, I use 2 motors.
@@HookedonWood Thank you Dennis As you know from experience, the data sheets are good guidance but the real world experience counts for so much which is why I so needed your feedback on the setup And I did LoL when you stated the cyclone nearly implodes because I’ve the Incra cleansweep inserts but that’s of no use when the work material covers these plates One further question is did you use the metal plate in your router rebate because I was worried the levelling grub screws would dig into the MDF Cheers Colin
I didn’t use a plate in my router. So far no problem with the mdf. But when it will, i will place some metal plates under the screws. But in my former workbench I did not have issues with it
Hoi Dennis, op basis van de flex buizen (ik schat in dat die naar de machines gaan) zou ik zeggen dat je de y-stukken verkeerd om hebt geplaatst en maken ze een hoek van 135 ipv 45 graden. Gr don
Hoi Don, ik denk dat je het verkeerd ziet. Wellicht lastig goed te zien. Maar de aanzuig route loopt van rechts naar links en van onder naar boven. Maar thanks voor het meedenken 👍
Mooie video, bedankt! Op dit moment ben ik, mede dankzij jou een schuur aan het bouwen en ik was gisteren begonnen me te verdiepen in hoe ik 'dust extraction' aan ga pakken. Goede timing dus!
As always Dennis another very informative video and definitely food for thought especially when I'm planning to be installing my dust extraction system to go with the P-flux dust collection system I purchased a couple of months ago. As always buddy 💯% 👍 🇬🇧.
Excellent video. I picked up several great pointers. A comment/question I have. What about noise generation of the systems you evaluate? 1 have a small shop area of 171 square feet (USA) 15,9 square meters approximately. Noise is a great concern. Shop vacuums to a dust collector make an unbearable amount of noise (yes, I ware noise protection). I have converted primarily to the Festool power tool and dust extractor system due to the excellent dust collection and low noise volume of their extractor compared to a regular shop vacuum, system worke great, no complaints. The problem is when using stationary tools as jointers, planners and table saws. The Festool extractors are usable on them. I switched to track saw usage for about 95% of former table saw usage helping quite a bit. I us a shop vacuum with a collector on the stationary tools. Very loud as I stated. I have loo,Ed at several brands of dust collectore, most sounding like a small jet engine getting ready for takeoff. Noise abatement does not seem to be of concern to most companies with their products. Perhaps noise volume could be the subject of a future video since you do a great job with your research. I look forward to any comments you may have.
@@HookedonWood I am subscribed to your channel so I apologize for not seeing that particular video. Especially since your channel is one of my most favorite, not to miss channels. Thanks for the reply. Keep up the great work!
@@larrycurran7005 there are insulated enclosures you could build, same goes for compressors, but that wouldnt be practical for large extractors. The quiet stuff is expencive but it does exsist.
@@bluewanderer9903 Thanks for the input. I do have an air compressor that make very little noise. It uses a type of muffler. You can hold a normal conversation right next to it running full out. Have not seen enclosures for vacuum cleaners and would wonder how all the air being sent in gets out without the noise escaping. I will have to check out what could be built to muffle the noise. Thanks again for the great idea!
@@larrycurran7005 have a look on this channel two uploads ago Dennis did exactly that on record extractor. And there is loads on youtube too, Mathias Wandel did a lot of experimenting with enclosures, filters and hoses. Just out of interest as I am looking to buy compressor right now, what have you got?
Nice video again Dennis, very informative! Working out a new dust collection setup for my own shop and I will definitely take your advice into consideration. I'm leaning towards the camvac, and I'm wondering: in a previous video about your camvac, you mentioned a bigger/stronger version of the camvac on its way to your shop. Mind telling me which one that is? And if it already arrived: how is it?
Hi Ralf, I never measured the temperature but yess, it is hot, and I think it could be around 40 degrees. But I think that is pretty common for a shop vacuum. I measured the temperature back in the time I had it in a closed box (not the camvac) and it was 60 degrees in no time. But they can handle these temperatures. But you can nut run it non stop. I believe on their site they give a operation time of 2 hours and then wait for 15 minutes. I do not use it for that long at a time. It also have a safety stop.
Dennis, thanks for this informative video on dust collection. I like how you simplified a very complex subject. Fortunately, I do not have to worry about a filter for my extraction since it exhausts into a collection bin outside ... without any neighbors. I will have to see what I can do since I am still building my shop and dust system. Also, my shop is a raised wood floor so I can duct down, not up.
Keep in mind that if you blow the air outside, you have to take that the same amount of air can enter your shop. Otherwise your complete shop will act as big airtight cap and will reduce your extraction
Dennis, please go to the Australian WW forum of which you are a member and have a look at some of the recommendations that have been researched with accompanying data. It is simply the best dust extraction resource in the world for woodworkers with no exception. Hammer machines have 125mm ports on the outside but 100mm ports & ducting on the inside so the 125 external port you see cannot flow any more air than the 100mm internal ducting can supply. The vented ZCI port on the table saw is completely blocked off when covered by the material being cut so prides no benefit but I do like your example of a closed cabinet which a lot of people don't understand. that is an excellent way of showing the reason a lot of bandsaws don't have good cabinet dust extraction. Dust extraction is all about capturing the fine INVISIBLE dust and if done properly a room filter is not necessary.
Excellent as ever Denis.I would add a little, ultra fine sanding is the dangerous material, we need to worry about this the most (in our lungs). Large flat bladed planer / thicknessers produce long curls. These are not dangerous per se (to lungs) but are inconvenient (because of the large volumes). Their large size has meant traditionally they have needed very large chip extractors to deal with, which are subject to the limitations you excellently pointed out. More recent carbide equipped planer / thicknesser produce thumb nails sized cuts of wood (again not respirable). The ultimate volume (weight) will be the same as the long curls but as these are smaller they are easier to deal with and can be dealt with smaller units with lower air flowrates / volumes. Again as these are relatively large they are not respirable so are not dangerous to our lungs per se, but the volume is inconvenient still. This means that your Camvac solution is even better today with modern carbide planer / thicknessers that it was years ago when launched with conventional bladed planer / thicknessers.
Very helpful info. Thanks so much! I too would like to see a review of your Laguna air cleaner. I have a Laguna dust collector and I'm on the fence about the quality of their products.
Thanks Dennis, as usual a very imformative video. I am leaning towards the Record Twin Motor Cam Vac for my small workshop and considering the Wall Mounted Version with a Bag Cage underneath as my available floor space is very limited. I hope to keep the Inlet and Outlet ports as low as possible but being wall mounted it will be difficult not to suffer some loss of suction due to the height above the machines 🤔. Have you had any experience of the Wall Mounted Version ? Have a great weekend 😁
Great information for a woodworker looking for a shop upgrade. I’ve watched all of your videos and have noticed you wearing this shirt in the past too. Could you please tell us what it means and explain the logo on your right shoulder. Thanks Dennis. 🇺🇸😎👍
FYI: One 90* elbow is equal to 10 ft (3M) of pipe run. This is true for air, liquid and gas. I, personally, suspect ( no proof, just a hunch) wood chips and dust will make that equivalent even greater. (more than 10ft), due to the weight of the chips and the friction crated inside the ducting. Yes, even in smooth ducting, there is still friction.
Nice video, Dennis! I recall an earlier episode where you built a workbench out of Valchromat and it looked pretty good, so I thought it would probably be a little pricey, but I wanted to give it a try. It was difficult to locate a seller near where I live-------but I persevered and found a lumber company that does business with the distributor here in the states. I called him and he told me he'd have a price for a 4X8 sheet 3/4" thick by this afternoon. Are you sitting down? I was quoted a price of $372.00 a sheet!!!!!! Plus a $35.00 fuel surcharge on top of that!! I don't know what your cost is where you are, but for shop cabinetry, I stick with what's available. I was wondering why, if the product was so good and it came in colors, why the big box stores around here didn't sell it, now I know. I had to try. I do enjoy your videos though, so keep up the good work.
Hi Dennis, The Black MDF is about 100 euros a sheet excluding tax. Valchromat is also more expansive. I do not know for sure if it is the same or if Valchromat is even denser. Full Colored MDF is denser than regular MDF. But it is a shame it is not available in so many places. It looks awesome and works great.
Hi Denis, I am currently building my own workshop and would like to think one day it can come close to your standard of build. Before I go into detail of some comments I thought I would mention I am a Chartered Engineer with 35 years of experience of operating and managing systems both administratively and physically, designed to eliminating the spread of contamination from large particles to as small as at the atomic level, eliminating were possible the harmful effects to personnel. Ensuring the work is carried out where the risks to health are ALARP (As Low as Reasonably Achievable). I am also a qualified COSHH (Control of Substances Hazardous to Health) assessment manager. I have watched many such videos and I have to say yours is the best I have seen so far. However like the rest I feel yours misses out on the fundamentals of contamination control. In as the way our training was based on was looking at it in the following way. If you are looking to carry out a project that will develop harmful arisings that need to be managed. The first 3 levels of questions you need to ask yourself in order are as follows 1. Can I eliminate the need for the process? 2. If I can not eliminate the process, what are the arisings? What engineered solutions do I have to establish both physically and administratively to manage these arisings? What training of personnel is required to make them SQEP (Suitably Qualified Experienced Personnel) for this task? 3. What PPE (Personnel Protective Equipment) is needed after the first 2 stages are undertaken. Most of the RUclips videos you see go straight to stage 3 with someone demonstrating a process wearing a mask then usually then taking off the mask and dusting them down to get rid of the contaminates covering in their non PPE clothing in a workshop knee deep in dust. Far from being a demonstration of being best practice. In any COSHH assessment dealing with airborne arisings the term LEV is often embedded in the process which stands for Local Exhaust Ventilation. This is an engineered solution that is employed and developed at stage 2. This is where your video elevates itself above other videos out on RUclips. As your process has a well developed stage 2. Hence your clean workshop. However can I make a suggestion for you to consider in the layout and development of your working practices. * In your demonstrations you held a hose out sucking up pieces of paper. Your LEV should always be placed in a manner to extract with the air flow directed so it drawn away from you towards the source of the arisings rather than towards you. Siting of workstations with consideration of doors and windows need to be considered. * It is always preferable for the exhaust of any system employed to be directed out of the workspace even better all the plant for the system is sited outside the work area. I do realise this is impractical for most small woodworking shops. However if this can not be achieved, the size and mass of the particles re-entering the working area need to be assessed. * I liked your demonstration of the practicalities of the removal of arisings in your table saw. You had me thinking of Reynolds Numbers with the thresholds for turbulent and laminar flow and were each has its benefits and that mass flow rates are a function of Density Area and velocity. * Can I suggest that you wear not just wear a face mask on cleaning out your system but also wear an appropriate paper suit to eliminate contamination of your clothing with very fine dust that you will inhale after you remove your mask. Ideally using an vacuum on the suit before removal of the suit then the mask. However you did end up giving me some homework to consider. You used the terms High Pressure and Low pressure systems which is often used by system manufacturers. These have never been my favourite expressions as we were always developing our systems based on differential pressures (DP) with the lowest pressure being at the site of highest contamination and balancing mass flow rates to achieve this outcome. Have you ever measured the levels of dust which is airborne in your shop? I do know there is equipment available for wood-shops for this. It would be interested to see this process carried out. Though our woodworking shop on the site I was involved in managing was an auxiliary trade on the site the dust had to be assessed with respect to the DSEAR (Dangerous Substances and explosive atmosphere regulations) as well, mainly centred around elimination of static discharges in pipework. Maybe something for you to consider. I hope you see these as positive comments shared to help develop working practices in home woodworking shops from industrial best practices. I have to emphasis yours is of a very high standard and that only is developed by people that look for continual improvements in their practices and I that I have given you some food for thought for future developments.
After being pestered for 4yrs by the Felder Rep I decided to invest in some new machinery and was avised to go for the RL 200 dust system which would easily cope with my requirements (4 sided moulder,spindle moulder,tenon cutter, rip saw etc) so I paid Felder £6,000+ and the commissioned the machinery in November 2021. The RL 200 has never worked correctly and only 1 bin fills up , the first bin fills to no more than 20% and that is not good enough. They have refused to send an engineer and only suggested keeping some blast gates open to reduce the pressure, didn't work. Then they suggested I fitted a blast gate directly on the machine 200mm inlet to "moderate air flow ,which I did and doesn't work. The build quality is not that great because although my machine is stationary in the workshop the nuts on the wheels are coming loose and falling off. They didn't fit any washers or nylocks which would have prevented the nuts falling out and the wheels coming loose.. They had all the information regarding machines etc and told me it would be a great machine which sadly it isn't, far from it in fact. Now they tell me "What you have is an entry level machine and If I want to they will take it back in part exchange for the next level up which has a rotary baffle which would solve the problem".. The problem is they didn't fit a baffle to the machine , I've had a few systems over the years and every single one has had adjustable baffles but this doesn't and I believe this is the problem. They did let it slip and told me They have had the issue before and solved it with an "electronic throttle" but with me ,even though I have been respectful in the manner In which I dealt with then ,they have washed their hands. Add to that the fact that Felder have washed their hands of the issue and I was told by Felder UK "There is nothing else e can do". Their only solution were to open more blast gates to allow more volume to go through and to slow down the chippings, didn't work and to fit a blast gate to the RL200 inlet to moderate the air flow and again it didn't work. They had a full plan of my system, photographs, details of machinery air requirements and they have no solution and have run away. If you want a 1 bin system you still need to be aware that all the chippings/dust may be sucked up into the filter and block it. Using the compressed air cleaning systen which I have still doesn't clean the filters enough if you get most of the chips/dust being sucked up into the filter. In all the 8 months I've had the machine Felder have refused to send an engineer to even look at the machine problem. Lastly you pay your money and make your choices but always take paid promotions with a huge pinch of salt. Felder machines in general are very good but their dust systems are poor. I keep my RL200 stationary ,so I don't move it around the workshop but even then I'm having bolts on the wheels working loose and falling out. No nylocks, or even washers behind the nuts.. Very poor and not what you should expect from supposed quality manufacturing. SHAME ON FELDER WOODWORKING FOR TREATING CUSTOMERS POORLY.
Sorry to hear your story. I am glad i do not have the same experience, because I agree that after spending 4000 or 6000 on a machine, they should at least take your problems seriously.
@@HookedonWood Hi and thanks for the reply. The thing that really annoyed me was they regularly phoned me every year for the previous 4yrs pestering me for my business. I bought the Felder F700Z Spindle moulder and FB510 bandsaw at the same time. The bandsaw took nearly 11 months to arrive due to supply issues with components which I fully understand. So when it arrived in the UK and they wanted to deliver and commission it (and me to pay for it) I told them I wanted the extractor issue fixed first as I didn't want a company to leave me with a poorly working machine. They promised me they would wash their hands of the issue and they " look after their clients as they look for a long term relationship". As soon as the Bandsaw was paid for, delivered,' and commissioned they washed their hands of the Extractor problem......It's a real shame because I am looking for an edge-bander soon and possibly taking on more workshop space and growing my business so I will go elsewhere as there are a few decent quality producers in the market... Thanks again and have a great weekend.. 🙂
Luckily there are more brands, but it is a shame, I really like the products. I hope the dealer organization in the NL is on a higher level. I find them very alert when I need them for questions, but then again, I can understand because of my channel, they act differently. That said, I have visited them once, and all the contact so far give me the impression of a very decent dealer organization. Thanks for your information, and all the best!
Hi Dennis, another excellent video! In support of what you said, 4 months ago, Ethan over at Stockroom Supplies (Ontario, Canada)(YT video ZLJCxyIQcK8) did a test for me using the same CamVac as you. Here's our exchange... - Me: Hi Ethan, if I can ask a favor, what CFM rating do you get with the twin motor CamVac when connected to a 4 inch vs. a 2-1/2 inch hose / pipe? - Ethan: Hey Daniel, I just did a quick measure. Right off the 4" inlet I measured 587 CFM. Through a 12' 4" pipe with 3 bends 443 CFM. And then through my 10' 2.5" hose 51 CFM with 1 motor and 145 CFM with 2 motors. I hope this helps! - Me: Yes, it certainly does help! I will certainly replace my small Dust Deputy for a bigger model with a 4-inch intake. I'm currently not getting the full value out of my CamVac. Hope this info is helpful to yourself and others. Best regards!
Dennis, that was about the most comprehensive explanation of dust collection I've seen on RUclips to date. If I may add a few points, first is you touched on "Velocity" when discussing the issue with your table saw. Maintaining velocity in a "Ducted" system is crucial to ensure that the dust and chips don't drop out of the air flow and build up somewhere causing it to clog. I would offer a suggestion that you could go back to your original closed designed on your zero clearance insert and open the table saw cabinet back up. The air flow needs to be in the cabinet to clear it out and carry the dust and chips away, just my two cents on that one. 😁 Secondly, dust collectors that have the pump before the filter have a low tolerance gap (12mm/1/2" or more) built in between the impeller and the pump housing. This is to ensure that any large chips or wood chunks don't get wedged between the blades and the housing that could cause damage to either. This gap allows a high air flow to be generated but when any restriction is applied to it, it will recycle internally around the gap between the blade and the pump housing causing the flow to drop or even stop. Therefore, these pumps can't build high pressure. Also, the motor is outside the air flow and has its own built is fan for cooling, so if the air flow is stopped, the motor isn't affected. These are best used for large equipment.
On high pressure pumps the impeller has a very high tolerance fit between the impeller and the pump housing, usually measured in thousands of an inch or hundreds of a millimeter. This is key to reducing internal recycling to a minimum to allow it to build pressure. Therefore, it is placed after the filter because these tight tolerances can't withstand any dust or debris to get in and wear in out. And the impeller is of a half or fully closed vein type with a pump housing that has a volute designed to build pressure. Also, the motor relies solely on the dust collection air flow for its cooling, which means that you can't restrict it by choking it down to fit a smaller line or tool without opening a bleed vent between the reduction in line or tool to maintain air flow for motor cooling. This is true for shop vacs too! I have an Oneida Supercell, it has three 1.6 H.P. high pressure pumps that each move about 180 CFM/305 MH for a total of about 540 CFM/ 915 MH. I use it for my main ducting in my garage shop but still rely on my Festool CTMIDI for single tool use.
All the Best Dennis,
Chuck
Hi Chuck, thanks for your information. I tried the regular zero clearance insert with the opening holes "air ventilation gabs" of the cabinet saw. But the results were better with the zero clearance insert with the air intakes. But I still have the air ventilation gaps open, also. You are right about airspeed. The problem is, there is so much to talk about this subject, and I found it hard to choose the right items, do not make it too complex because before you know it, it becomes a very complex story, and viewers with too little patience of knowledge of the subject would be overwhelmed. So, it was the hardest video so far, information-wise.
But again, thanks for your input.
@@HookedonWood Hey Dennis, regarding your zero clearance insert, sometimes you have to go with what works. Dust collection or extraction is a simple term for what is actually the much more complex science of fluid dynamics. I'm not an expert on the subject by any means, but I have 30yrs of practical experience working with it as a process operations foreman and turnaround planner with Shell Oil. There I worked closely with chemical and mechanical engineers on units that moved millions of standard cubic feet a day of various gases at pressures from 3000psi or 200+Bars down to 15 inches of mercury, or half a Bar. Along with all the various pumps and compressors, large and small that moved it, not to mention the mile of pipes and hundreds of valves that transported and controlled it.
Your video presented the information in a way that best conveyed what most would need to know.
For that, I applaud you! 👍
OH yeah, I see you have a Hammer A3-31, I had one too, a very nice machine, but turned it in for a Felder AD-531, a really nice machine, you know to go with my FB-510. 🤦♂️
Sorry, I know I'm a jerk, but you have a genuinely nice workshop, and I must work out of a two-car garage that I still have to park my wife's car in, sometimes. 😢
All the Best,
Chuck
Great information and delivery.
Most people do not understand the physics behind flow (air and fluid are very similar) and when they plumb systems, they use too many bends and too many diameter changes. I have dealt with fluid and air flow in work for MANY years and have first hand experience, both in success and failure.
Thanks again!
Edit: And that zero clearance insert is awesome! What a great way to get airflow almost exactly at the needed spot! Terrific!
I too sealed all the gaps on my old contractor TS and only had a shop vac to draw out the dust. After a year of use I had to get inside the cabinet to fix something. The inside cavity was 25% full of saw dust. Only the space above the duct opening was clear so I agree some air intake is needed to create turbulence and move more dust.
Your videos are very well organized and the explanations are bang on. Thank you for sharing.
Finally someone that understands it. Im a dutch furniture maker and I love your video’s dennis!
I think your one of the best guy woodworkers on RUclips
Micro dust is the biggest issue for the lungs. If you can create a situation where the airflow in the room is constantly dragging 'polluted' air away from ones face towards the outside of the room (we used quiet 12" industrial fans), with fresh clean air coming in from the other side of the room. ( Complicated when zero degrees outside). I ran a MDF workshop for years and it was amazingly dust free. AND most importantly, our dust extractor was NOT in the same room as the workers but in a separate storage shed where people were not working. Hence, zero extractor noise, and zero micro dust from the extractor in the workshop.
Agreed. For us smaller/home shop people... If you have the option, exhaust the dust extractor air to the outside and allow fresh air to come in. I'm looking to add a selectable splitter to my impeller exhaust between it and the 1-micron canister filter, so I can select the canister (winter when I can't allow fresh air in) and direct exit to outside (summer when I can allow fresh air in). Otherwise, I try and do any sanding outside whenever possible... the biggest source of extra fine dust.
Thank you. This is the best summary of all of the important aspects of dust collection that I have. Much appreciated
thank you dennis! i just put in a small shopvac system for my shop and it works awesomely? it's 2" PVC piping run along one wall around 14' long run into a shop vac pulling 148 CFM. works like a champ. my point being as you stated. research EVERYTHING! lol. this would be too small for most other guys. but works very well for what little i do. again thanks for a clear and enjoyable visit! best to you and the family in these troubled time! cheers!
rick
Terrific content and super high production quality on your video, Dennis. Very helpful.
I really enjoy these dust extraction videos. Very helpful. I would like more reviews of your setup including the Laguna unit you references towards the end of your video.
Hey Dennis, excellent content. You really worked hard on this (and the other ones as well I might add), please keep up this outstanding work. I know making them must be VERY time consuming!! Cheers, Joe
Wow. Great presentation. One of the best and technically accurate I have seen.
What a great video. Dust collection--at least, really good dust collection--is a complicated multivariate issue, and this was such a well-explained and well-illustrated summary.
Well done!
Meant to mention: as I'm trying to set up a shop right now, and currently just using 3 vacuum cleaners in various places right by our machines, I've been wondering whether simply having a couple of box fans pointed at me from behind while using the tablesaw might be a good addition. I hope it can keep much of the fine uncaptured dust moving away from me, as a cheap 'high-volume' solution, with another box fan just beyond aimed out the door of the shop (this in addition to a dust filter system like the Laguna).
Nothing is perfect, but defense in depth may be a good approach: personal high-quality mask, dust collection for the machine, high-volume fresh air from behind me, flushing the shop, and ambient air cleaner all together.
Thanks Jay, as you said, it is
Complicated. That makes it very hard what to tell in 15 minutes. So I am happy with your comments 👍
Your content is benchmark level 👏
Dennis, wow really nice work on your most recent videos. They have always been good, but your work on the content, sound, lighting, and a bunch of things I’m sure I’m not aware of, really shines. Same for your choice of words, I can tell they are well thought out.
Great tip on the table saw, about it having make-up air.
Thanks for this comment ✌️. I invest a lot of time to improve myself on these points, so I am glad viewers notice the difference. Thanks
Great video. Very indepth explanation. The best I came across on youtube so far!
😁 Perfect, thanks Dennis. All the questions I've ever asked about dust extraction all in one place. Excellent video. Thanks very much 😁👍
You have explained all of the important facts in detail, but also in a manner that is easy to understand (and not boring). I have a DeWalt DWE7485 and I find that a lot of dust escapes not so much from the actual exhaust pipe, but from various other culprits. Maybe, in one of your future videos, you can offer ideas re. dust extraction when dealing with a similar table saw as the DWE7485.
I love your videos, they are very useful for me, I take advantage of them twice as I learn English and the good ideas you give on your channel, thank you very much for sharing your wisdom. You now have a new subscriber.
Welcome😀
Wow! Great video with astounding domonstrations!
Trying to find your video on the table saw insert plate for dust collection. Thank you Enjoy your videos
Well presented, thank you. Wow you have a beautiful workshop.
Thanks Dean
Another great video Dennis. You have come a long way since the start of your You Tube journey. Always appreciate your easy presentation and well explained information. Thank you. Allan
Great analogy with boats; boats, like dust, are a fluid dynamics problem.
Great informative video, yet again, please keep them coming. Yes I’m very interested in a review of the Laguna air filter system
Amazing content Dennis. I love your style and channel. Yes, please make a review of the Laguna air filtration 🙏👍
I really enjoyed this video, it was very clear.
I appreciate your content on dust collection. You helped me realize that my intent on using a 2HP dust collection system with its complex piping system would ultimately be a failure for my smaller equipment. Currently all of my tools have a 2-1/2" or smaller port. I also liked what you demonstrated with the CamVac system, that it's my next purchase.
What are your thoughts on a piping layout for the CamVac system for a run of under 50' related to these points: Pipe size of 2", 3", or 4"? Vertical runs less than 8'?
Keep up the great work!
This was very helpful. Thank you!
well summarised dennis 👍
As always Dennis amazing reviews. ❤
Please review your Laguna air cleaner. Thanks! Oh, I'm loving your videos and look forward to them.
Great information Denis.The anology of the cargo ship and speed boat is right on!
Many thanks for this video. Really informative👍
Thank You!! I’ve been a hobby woodworker for almost 9 years and there was a good bit of information I did not know. I will use what you’ve shared with us to help in my shop set up. Subscribed!
Great video. Very informative. I will respectfully disagree on the point automatically keeping the ducting the same size as the inlet of your DC however. Many 3HP and larger DCs will have 7-8" inlets or larger and I think making your ducting that size is just a waste. The sp loss is very close to a 6" ducting (for the main lines) but you pay alot more for the larger ducting. This of course assumes it's for a small one man shop operating 1 machine at a time. The larger ducting would show it's worth in a production shop where multiple machines were running at the same time.
No problem, I still think from a technical point of view it is better, but I also go from 6 to 5 inches because of the same reason.
Great information
100% true. Thank you.
Excellent video - clear advice without processing that perfection is within our grasp. My shop is about 30 square metres and has the usual array of table saw, band saw, planer/thicknesses, router table, lather, Mortiser plus, of course, power tools. I agree with all your principles - keep it as large as possible for as long as possible; keep it as straight as possible; keep bends as gentle as possible but also have blast gates as near to the Y junction as possible.
I recently bought a Falco/itech 3hp cyclone extractor (I’ve got a teething problem with but hope the supplier will sort that out). It comes with a 200mm inlet high up on the machine. So, I’m installing 200mm metal dusting hanging from the ceiling and following all the principles I laid out. Some of my machines have to brought out into the middle of the shop if I want to band saw 2.5m lengths for example (5m of space needed). So I have a single port which comes to the middle and has 2 x 45 degree bends and then a 200 to 100 sloped reducer - all ending just above my head. When I want to move my planer or bandsaw out, I connect that machine with its 100mm outlet to the end of the reduce using magport fixings. Very simple and the least complicated that I could find. I use either a large 2 motor Numatic vacuum (excellent and I found it to be far better than the Record Power) or a Festool midi vac for my power tools. I also have a Record Power AC100 (?) air cleaner
I can’t get perfection. I can usually make improvements but you would never be able to assemble electronic in my shop. I use a air meter (quite cheap) to measure the amount of dust in the air. If I feel it’s high or if I feel the next operation will produce a lot of dust, then I put on my Trend crash helmet and know that although the ship is getting some dust, I’m not.
Another interesting and very informative video Dennis. I’m particularly interested to understand more about the Laguna and air filtration in general in combination with dust extraction.
Thanks Dennis, my CamVac (like yours) arrived today and I'm looking forward to setting it up. I wasn't able to determine if you used yours with an cyclone. If you did how was the performance?
I did not use a cuclone, but because the canvac is a high pressure system, the cyclone will not effect it that much. The same is with the angles of your duct network or flexible hose. This is killing for your High volume system, but almost no problem for a high pressure system. Have fun with it. Good choice👍👌
@@HookedonWood Thanks!
Very well said, Dennis. But then you are always up; on knowing what is going on. We are honored to have a genius like you kind sir. And I'm very glad you showed that a 5" duct is much better than a 4" duct. Even though they look close. But they aren't. When we do the mathematics! Like...
...if we have a 5", "25 cubit" duct (5 x 5) compared with a 4", "16 cubit" (4 X 4). Thus 16 cubit divided by 25 cubits = 64%. Meaning: a 5" duct is 36% better than a 4" Duct. As Dennis said.
So whenever, in a wood-shop, always pay the money for duct collectors have at leas 5" inlets. NO less. And even better: it has a 6" at least in the outlet. And a 7" outlet at least. Then use a step-down duct (6">5") in the inlet; which creates and increase in the flow high. And there is a scientific name in physics for that; but I can't remember what it is. Anyone?
Very import. Meaning many duct collectors are NOT what they are said to be. Sad, but true. So if you are planning a new ducting system in your shop...Please DO the research and make sure it will be the Duct Collection you wanted it to be. For if you make mistakes; you will have wasted what you wanted and your pocket. That has happened with many! Sad, but OH so True dear folks.
Not to mention the "silly ducts" in MOST manufactured machines. Where there, in some, there is NO way to really collect dust; that is flying off a blade @ 3400 RPM's. Oh yeah! When will they learn that simple fact absolute for over 200 yrs!
May you have good luck! For "I been there before"! And is AINT funny! Sorry Dennis, for such a long comment.
After watching this I think you just solved my problem to much flex hose. I’ll reduce it as much as I can and see if that improves it. Thanks for the great advice and tips
Yes, flex hose is a real drag on the system.
It is due to the corrugated, interior, surface.
Thanks for this explanation but I am now in a bit of a doubt. I’ve ordered a Hammer A3-31 last weekend and was considering a Camvac with 2 motors especially for the A3. Would that be a good choice for a small hobby workshop? I don’t have space for a very large dust extractor.
I was also thinking to add the Record Power ac400 for the micro dust
Dennis, that is very good and concise information. Thank you. Bill Pentz (the designer of some of ClearVue's cyclones) agrees with you on the fact that carrying your inlet size all the way to your machine is necessary for the best airflow and performance, but he also adds that the form and airflow allowances for the dust shroud near blade is crucial. Your video on the improvements to your ZCI showed this quite well. Nice work Sir!
alweer een mooie video, een stofvrije werkruimte is aangenaam om in te werken en veel gezonder.
Excellent video, Dennis! Thanks a bunch! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I have to commend you on another helpful video Dennis. I saw your recent video on the new router table where you have installed the same router setup as I have (INCRA lift with the AUK router motor plus the INCRA Cleansweep dustbox) and because I've seen your shop layout, I wondered if you have this connected to your Record Camvac 2kW dust extractor and how this whole router table system is performing with dust collection. I seek your help because I was about to purchase the same Record Camvac model but the Incra Cleansweep installation datasheet states I need 350cfm for which i would need the triple motor Record Camvac, so what do you think?
Thank you
Hi Colin,
Yes I use the Camvac for this, I think it is a better dust extractor for the router table as well because of the small gab at the top of your router table. I think the Camvac creates more extraction because of the high pressure system. The 2 camvac is enough and holds my INCRA clean sweep box clean. a thing to consider is that I can not close my Clean sweep box. The blast gate at the underside leaks to much air, so I hade to place another because I would loose too much pressure in the rest of the system. I do have a 3 motors version on this moment. But that creates so much pressure that my cyclone almost implodes when I run it with the router and a workpiece covers the holes. The 3 motor version creates a lot of pressure. I think for a jointer/planer the 3 motors can be interesting but in average use, I use 2 motors.
@@HookedonWood
Thank you Dennis
As you know from experience, the data sheets are good guidance but the real world experience counts for so much which is why I so needed your feedback on the setup
And I did LoL when you stated the cyclone nearly implodes because I’ve the Incra cleansweep inserts but that’s of no use when the work material covers these plates
One further question is did you use the metal plate in your router rebate because I was worried the levelling grub screws would dig into the MDF
Cheers
Colin
I didn’t use a plate in my router. So far no problem with the mdf. But when it will, i will place some metal plates under the screws. But in my former workbench I did not have issues with it
Hoi Dennis, op basis van de flex buizen (ik schat in dat die naar de machines gaan) zou ik zeggen dat je de y-stukken verkeerd om hebt geplaatst en maken ze een hoek van 135 ipv 45 graden. Gr don
Hoi Don, ik denk dat je het verkeerd ziet. Wellicht lastig goed te zien. Maar de aanzuig route loopt van rechts naar links en van onder naar boven. Maar thanks voor het meedenken 👍
Mooie video, bedankt! Op dit moment ben ik, mede dankzij jou een schuur aan het bouwen en ik was gisteren begonnen me te verdiepen in hoe ik 'dust extraction' aan ga pakken. Goede timing dus!
Leuk om te lezen, succes ermee!
Where did you get the Kreg pocket hole jig adapter from for the festool cleantec?
As always Dennis another very informative video and definitely food for thought especially when I'm planning to be installing my dust extraction system to go with the P-flux dust collection system I purchased a couple of months ago. As always buddy 💯% 👍 🇬🇧.
Excellent video. I picked up several great pointers. A comment/question I have. What about noise generation of the systems you evaluate? 1 have a small shop area of 171 square feet (USA) 15,9 square meters approximately. Noise is a great concern. Shop vacuums to a dust collector make an unbearable amount of noise (yes, I ware noise protection). I have converted primarily to the Festool power tool and dust extractor system due to the excellent dust collection and low noise volume of their extractor compared to a regular shop vacuum, system worke great, no complaints. The problem is when using stationary tools as jointers, planners and table saws. The Festool extractors are usable on them. I switched to track saw usage for about 95% of former table saw usage helping quite a bit. I us a shop vacuum with a collector on the stationary tools. Very loud as I stated. I have loo,Ed at several brands of dust collectore, most sounding like a small jet engine getting ready for takeoff. Noise abatement does not seem to be of concern to most companies with their products.
Perhaps noise volume could be the subject of a future video since you do a great job with your research. I look forward to any comments you may have.
Watch my former video about the camvac. Here i adress noise
@@HookedonWood I am subscribed to your channel so I apologize for not seeing that particular video. Especially since your channel is one of my most favorite, not to miss channels. Thanks for the reply. Keep up the great work!
@@larrycurran7005 there are insulated enclosures you could build, same goes for compressors, but that wouldnt be practical for large extractors.
The quiet stuff is expencive but it does exsist.
@@bluewanderer9903 Thanks for the input. I do have an air compressor that make very little noise. It uses a type of muffler. You can hold a normal conversation right next to it running full out. Have not seen enclosures for vacuum cleaners and would wonder how all the air being sent in gets out without the noise escaping. I will have to check out what could be built to muffle the noise. Thanks again for the great idea!
@@larrycurran7005 have a look on this channel two uploads ago Dennis did exactly that on record extractor. And there is loads on youtube too, Mathias Wandel did a lot of experimenting with enclosures, filters and hoses.
Just out of interest as I am looking to buy compressor right now, what have you got?
Dennis, Thank you for the good information and illustrations.
Love the Record CamVac. High Volume and High Pressure!
Another great video. Cheers Dennis.
Keep 'er lit Bro!
Hi Dennis,can I sak you,what does materiale It Is you use ti built your router tablet and clamps? I mean those black
Cheers
It is what we call full colored MDF. Something similar as valchromat but the half of the price
@@HookedonWood ok thank you,I Will try ti find It
Another great video Dennis ,thanks.
Nice video again Dennis, very informative! Working out a new dust collection setup for my own shop and I will definitely take your advice into consideration. I'm leaning towards the camvac, and I'm wondering: in a previous video about your camvac, you mentioned a bigger/stronger version of the camvac on its way to your shop. Mind telling me which one that is? And if it already arrived: how is it?
Hi Dennis
Is your camvac also creating "so" warm air on the blowing site. My is round about 40°c
Hi Ralf, I never measured the temperature but yess, it is hot, and I think it could be around 40 degrees. But I think that is pretty common for a shop vacuum. I measured the temperature back in the time I had it in a closed box (not the camvac) and it was 60 degrees in no time. But they can handle these temperatures. But you can nut run it non stop. I believe on their site they give a operation time of 2 hours and then wait for 15 minutes. I do not use it for that long at a time. It also have a safety stop.
Thank you Dennis
So i will use is in winter to warm up my garaga😅
And today i will drill a hole in my wall to blow it outside..
Have a graet weekend
Dennis, thanks for this informative video on dust collection. I like how you simplified a very complex subject. Fortunately, I do not have to worry about a filter for my extraction since it exhausts into a collection bin outside ... without any neighbors. I will have to see what I can do since I am still building my shop and dust system. Also, my shop is a raised wood floor so I can duct down, not up.
Keep in mind that if you blow the air outside, you have to take that the same amount of air can enter your shop. Otherwise your complete shop will act as big airtight cap and will reduce your extraction
@@HookedonWood This is true, and depending on where you live this can impact your heating/cooling budget as well.
Another excellent video. I would very much appreciate a review of the air cleaner, if this is possible.
Good presentation and visual comparison
Thanks for the great info!
Good video Dennis!
Dennis, please go to the Australian WW forum of which you are a member and have a look at some of the recommendations that have been researched with accompanying data. It is simply the best dust extraction resource in the world for woodworkers with no exception.
Hammer machines have 125mm ports on the outside but 100mm ports & ducting on the inside so the 125 external port you see cannot flow any more air than the 100mm internal ducting can supply. The vented ZCI port on the table saw is completely blocked off when covered by the material being cut so prides no benefit but I do like your example of a closed cabinet which a lot of people don't understand. that is an excellent way of showing the reason a lot of bandsaws don't have good cabinet dust extraction.
Dust extraction is all about capturing the fine INVISIBLE dust and if done properly a room filter is not necessary.
I would like to see a review of the Laguna air cleaner
Signed up
Thank you Sir, always learn and enjoy your videos. Would like to see a review of your Laguna Filter. Many thanks - Steve
Excellent as ever Denis.I would add a little, ultra fine sanding is the dangerous material, we need to worry about this the most (in our lungs). Large flat bladed planer / thicknessers produce long curls. These are not dangerous per se (to lungs) but are inconvenient (because of the large volumes). Their large size has meant traditionally they have needed very large chip extractors to deal with, which are subject to the limitations you excellently pointed out. More recent carbide equipped planer / thicknesser produce thumb nails sized cuts of wood (again not respirable). The ultimate volume (weight) will be the same as the long curls but as these are smaller they are easier to deal with and can be dealt with smaller units with lower air flowrates / volumes. Again as these are relatively large they are not respirable so are not dangerous to our lungs per se, but the volume is inconvenient still. This means that your Camvac solution is even better today with modern carbide planer / thicknessers that it was years ago when launched with conventional bladed planer / thicknessers.
Thanks for your information.
Thanks, well researched.
Very helpful info. Thanks so much! I too would like to see a review of your Laguna air cleaner. I have a Laguna dust collector and I'm on the fence about the quality of their products.
Nice information, thanks.🙏🇸🇪
Great video! Please do a review or "all you need to know about" of the air filtration system.
I will think about it!
Thanks Dennis, as usual a very imformative video. I am leaning towards the Record Twin Motor Cam Vac for my small workshop and considering the Wall Mounted Version with a Bag Cage underneath as my available floor space is very limited.
I hope to keep the Inlet and Outlet ports as low as possible but being wall mounted it will be difficult not to suffer some loss of suction due to the height above the machines 🤔.
Have you had any experience of the Wall Mounted Version ?
Have a great weekend 😁
You do great work and its helped me a lot to become a RUclips Carpenter in my own right! Lol .Keep it up 👍🏼
Dank je voor de goede uitleg, en ja zou graag meer horen over je luchtfiltersysteem. Kijk ernaar uit om je volgende video te zien :)
Hi, I enjoy your videos and would appreciate you views on the Laguna Filter, Thanks
Yes good do the review of the Laguna I would be interested.
Thanks a lot for many informations. See you
Great information for a woodworker looking for a shop upgrade. I’ve watched all of your videos and have noticed you wearing this shirt in the past too. Could you please tell us what it means and explain the logo on your right shoulder. Thanks Dennis. 🇺🇸😎👍
Would like to see review of air cleaner also
FYI: One 90* elbow is equal to 10 ft (3M) of pipe run.
This is true for air, liquid and gas.
I, personally, suspect ( no proof, just a hunch) wood chips
and dust will make that equivalent even greater. (more than 10ft),
due to the weight of the chips and the friction crated inside the ducting.
Yes, even in smooth ducting, there is still friction.
Thanks for your info. I measured before an after 3 meter pipe with one smooth 90 degree turn and dit not measured noticeably difference.
Dennis what was the diameter of that pipe?😁🛫
That was a 125 mm pipe. Actually, it was a 2 1 meter pipe, 90 degrees turn, and again 1 meter of PVC pipe. I measured not noticeable difference.
Nice video, Dennis! I recall an earlier episode where you built a workbench out of Valchromat and it looked pretty good, so I thought it would probably be a little pricey, but I wanted to give it a try. It was difficult to locate a seller near where I live-------but I persevered and found a lumber company that does business with the distributor here in the states. I called him and he told me he'd have a price for a 4X8 sheet 3/4" thick by this afternoon. Are you sitting down? I was quoted a price of $372.00 a sheet!!!!!! Plus a $35.00 fuel surcharge on top of that!! I don't know what your cost is where you are, but for shop cabinetry, I stick with what's available. I was wondering why, if the product was so good and it came in colors, why the big box stores around here didn't sell it, now I know. I had to try. I do enjoy your videos though, so keep up the good work.
Hi Dennis, The Black MDF is about 100 euros a sheet excluding tax. Valchromat is also more expansive. I do not know for sure if it is the same or if Valchromat is even denser.
Full Colored MDF is denser than regular MDF.
But it is a shame it is not available in so many places. It looks awesome and works great.
Hi Denis, I am currently building my own workshop and would like to think one day it can come close to your standard of build.
Before I go into detail of some comments I thought I would mention I am a Chartered Engineer with 35 years of experience of operating and managing systems both administratively and physically, designed to eliminating the spread of contamination from large particles to as small as at the atomic level, eliminating were possible the harmful effects to personnel. Ensuring the work is carried out where the risks to health are ALARP (As Low as Reasonably Achievable). I am also a qualified COSHH (Control of Substances Hazardous to Health) assessment manager.
I have watched many such videos and I have to say yours is the best I have seen so far. However like the rest I feel yours misses out on the fundamentals of contamination control. In as the way our training was based on was looking at it in the following way. If you are looking to carry out a project that will develop harmful arisings that need to be managed. The first 3 levels of questions you need to ask yourself in order are as follows
1. Can I eliminate the need for the process?
2. If I can not eliminate the process, what are the arisings? What engineered solutions do I have to establish both physically and administratively to manage these arisings? What training of personnel is required to make them SQEP (Suitably Qualified Experienced Personnel) for this task?
3. What PPE (Personnel Protective Equipment) is needed after the first 2 stages are undertaken.
Most of the RUclips videos you see go straight to stage 3 with someone demonstrating a process wearing a mask then usually then taking off the mask and dusting them down to get rid of the contaminates covering in their non PPE clothing in a workshop knee deep in dust. Far from being a demonstration of being best practice.
In any COSHH assessment dealing with airborne arisings the term LEV is often embedded in the process which stands for Local Exhaust Ventilation. This is an engineered solution that is employed and developed at stage 2. This is where your video elevates itself above other videos out on RUclips. As your process has a well developed stage 2. Hence your clean workshop. However can I make a suggestion for you to consider in the layout and development of your working practices.
* In your demonstrations you held a hose out sucking up pieces of paper. Your LEV should always be placed in a manner to extract with the air flow directed so it drawn away from you towards the source of the arisings rather than towards you. Siting of workstations with consideration of doors and windows need to be considered.
* It is always preferable for the exhaust of any system employed to be directed out of the workspace even better all the plant for the system is sited outside the work area. I do realise this is impractical for most small woodworking shops. However if this can not be achieved, the size and mass of the particles re-entering the working area need to be assessed.
* I liked your demonstration of the practicalities of the removal of arisings in your table saw. You had me thinking of Reynolds Numbers with the thresholds for turbulent and laminar flow and were each has its benefits and that mass flow rates are a function of Density Area and velocity.
* Can I suggest that you wear not just wear a face mask on cleaning out your system but also wear an appropriate paper suit to eliminate contamination of your clothing with very fine dust that you will inhale after you remove your mask. Ideally using an vacuum on the suit before removal of the suit then the mask.
However you did end up giving me some homework to consider. You used the terms High Pressure and Low pressure systems which is often used by system manufacturers. These have never been my favourite expressions as we were always developing our systems based on differential pressures (DP) with the lowest pressure being at the site of highest contamination and balancing mass flow rates to achieve this outcome.
Have you ever measured the levels of dust which is airborne in your shop? I do know there is equipment available for wood-shops for this. It would be interested to see this process carried out.
Though our woodworking shop on the site I was involved in managing was an auxiliary trade on the site the dust had to be assessed with respect to the DSEAR (Dangerous Substances and explosive atmosphere regulations) as well, mainly centred around elimination of static discharges in pipework. Maybe something for you to consider.
I hope you see these as positive comments shared to help develop working practices in home woodworking shops from industrial best practices. I have to emphasis yours is of a very high standard and that only is developed by people that look for continual improvements in their practices and I that I have given you some food for thought for future developments.
After being pestered for 4yrs by the Felder Rep I decided to invest in some new machinery and was avised to go for the RL 200 dust system which would easily cope with my requirements (4 sided moulder,spindle moulder,tenon cutter, rip saw etc) so I paid Felder £6,000+ and the commissioned the machinery in November 2021. The RL 200 has never worked correctly and only 1 bin fills up , the first bin fills to no more than 20% and that is not good enough. They have refused to send an engineer and only suggested keeping some blast gates open to reduce the pressure, didn't work. Then they suggested I fitted a blast gate directly on the machine 200mm inlet to "moderate air flow ,which I did and doesn't work. The build quality is not that great because although my machine is stationary in the workshop the nuts on the wheels are coming loose and falling off. They didn't fit any washers or nylocks which would have prevented the nuts falling out and the wheels coming loose.. They had all the information regarding machines etc and told me it would be a great machine which sadly it isn't, far from it in fact. Now they tell me "What you have is an entry level machine and If I want to they will take it back in part exchange for the next level up which has a rotary baffle which would solve the problem".. The problem is they didn't fit a baffle to the machine , I've had a few systems over the years and every single one has had adjustable baffles but this doesn't and I believe this is the problem. They did let it slip and told me They have had the issue before and solved it with an "electronic throttle" but with me ,even though I have been respectful in the manner In which I dealt with then ,they have washed their hands.
Add to that the fact that Felder have washed their hands of the issue and I was told by Felder UK "There is nothing else e can do". Their only solution were to open more blast gates to allow more volume to go through and to slow down the chippings, didn't work and to fit a blast gate to the RL200 inlet to moderate the air flow and again it didn't work. They had a full plan of my system, photographs, details of machinery air requirements and they have no solution and have run away. If you want a 1 bin system you still need to be aware that all the chippings/dust may be sucked up into the filter and block it. Using the compressed air cleaning systen which I have still doesn't clean the filters enough if you get most of the chips/dust being sucked up into the filter. In all the 8 months I've had the machine Felder have refused to send an engineer to even look at the machine problem.
Lastly you pay your money and make your choices but always take paid promotions with a huge pinch of salt. Felder machines in general are very good but their dust systems are poor. I keep my RL200 stationary ,so I don't move it around the workshop but even then I'm having bolts on the wheels working loose and falling out. No nylocks, or even washers behind the nuts.. Very poor and not what you should expect from supposed quality manufacturing. SHAME ON FELDER WOODWORKING FOR TREATING CUSTOMERS POORLY.
Sorry to hear your story. I am glad i do not have the same experience, because I agree that after spending 4000 or 6000 on a machine, they should at least take your problems seriously.
@@HookedonWood Hi and thanks for the reply. The thing that really annoyed me was they regularly phoned me every year for the previous 4yrs pestering me for my business. I bought the Felder F700Z Spindle moulder and FB510 bandsaw at the same time. The bandsaw took nearly 11 months to arrive due to supply issues with components which I fully understand. So when it arrived in the UK and they wanted to deliver and commission it (and me to pay for it) I told them I wanted the extractor issue fixed first as I didn't want a company to leave me with a poorly working machine. They promised me they would wash their hands of the issue and they " look after their clients as they look for a long term relationship". As soon as the Bandsaw was paid for, delivered,' and commissioned they washed their hands of the Extractor problem......It's a real shame because I am looking for an edge-bander soon and possibly taking on more workshop space and growing my business so I will go elsewhere as there are a few decent quality producers in the market... Thanks again and have a great weekend.. 🙂
Luckily there are more brands, but it is a shame, I really like the products. I hope the dealer organization in the NL is on a higher level. I find them very alert when I need them for questions, but then again, I can understand because of my channel, they act differently. That said, I have visited them once, and all the contact so far give me the impression of a very decent dealer organization. Thanks for your information, and all the best!
Hi Dennis, another excellent video! In support of what you said, 4 months ago, Ethan over at Stockroom Supplies (Ontario, Canada)(YT video ZLJCxyIQcK8) did a test for me using the same CamVac as you. Here's our exchange...
- Me: Hi Ethan, if I can ask a favor, what CFM rating do you get with the twin motor CamVac when connected to a 4 inch vs. a 2-1/2 inch hose / pipe?
- Ethan: Hey Daniel, I just did a quick measure. Right off the 4" inlet I measured 587 CFM. Through a 12' 4" pipe with 3 bends 443 CFM. And then through my 10' 2.5" hose 51 CFM with 1 motor and 145 CFM with 2 motors. I hope this helps!
- Me: Yes, it certainly does help! I will certainly replace my small Dust Deputy for a bigger model with a 4-inch intake. I'm currently not getting the full value out of my CamVac.
Hope this info is helpful to yourself and others.
Best regards!
Great video. 🇦🇺👴🏻
Great video. Too much information for me. It has scared me. Looks like I will have to spend more on dust extraction/collection than on my band saw
ρɾσɱσʂɱ 🤗
My lungs are the only extraction i need, baby.
Inches? Really?