+RoXo1987 yeah dude it's just a problem in the mind of the FGC fucktards elitists, that's why fightcade and almost all fighting games are dead compared to other games genres. +Level Nine Drow ??????
+Level Nine Drow That's like saying not all basketball players become NBA professional players. It doesn't matter if a lot of casuals don't become pros, what matters is that every new game that comes out could represent the starting point of a lot of pros. When the first Street Fighter arcade machines were released everyone was a casual and that created the huge community that we know today.
Wise words RoXo. Casuals also help the economy of the publisher in order to update existing games or making new ones. What gets me sad is the poor 1rst impression this game gave ex Meta critic User score is really low as of right now and like Max said word of mouth is really important in this industry with out it games like the Dark Souls series wouldn't even be succesful.
+RoXo1987 Not everyone. I got in to Street Fighter after watching FGC events like Evo. The main reason I bought the game was to be competitive like the pros. I never became "pro" but I still try to play competitively and constantly improve. I mean look at StarCraft 2. Single player is fun but multiplayer is where it's really at...
I think the pro or pro-minded players of the fighting game are much too hot headed to realize that ALL of the community is important to their favorite franchise. You have explained this very well.
its because they are so wrapped up in their own little bubbles they cannot see the reality of the situation....if casuals didn't matter you wouldn't have a street fighter to play
+AwpWilliams I'm conflicted here. A game is for competition. And clearly Street Fighter is transcending what can be classified as just a game, especially if such considerations need to be made, such as how a casual fan can play. I like basketball, I can shoot hoops, but I know I'm not Lebron James. If someone wants to try and play, that's fine. Whether or not they become good at the game at its highest level shouldn't be a coded into the game, except in the case of an easy mode.
I believe a "game" is designed to be "fun". Fun can also be competition. I believe it starts at fun. You have to enjoy something in order to be able dedicate competition mentality to it. Neither one is bad or essentially better than the other. I believe they compliment one another. Consider the following: (I use a lot of analogies here so bear with me). Imagine a world where you could only sell a basketball to someone in the NBA or someone trying to get in the NBA, like a highschooler playing on his school team. What about that guy's little brother who wants his own basketball because he enjoys watching his big brother play and watching ESPN, and all he wants to do is dribble and shoot the ball in his backyard. He may or may not have the intention to get serious about it, but who cares? He has the right to dribble a ball. Now imagine he can't get that ball because he's not playing to compete. He can't enjoy basketball. He has to be super serious about it to even try it. I don't know where basketball came from, but was it not invented as a fun activity before all the major competitions came about? This is essentially what SFV has done. It's essentially only open to the super serious competitive player. What about the person who just wants to (as Max described) just stick in the game and play with a cool character or have something to do with a friend every now and then? Indeed, I ask, where is the fun? Competition can be fun, but right now the little kid (a Street Fighter casual or noob) can't relax and dribble the ball or have fun messing around with his friends using something as simple as a ball and a hoop.(single player and versus mode) because it's only accessible to highschoolers and NBA members (competitive players and actual pros). The point is, there would not be competition without the fun game being developed. So... now Capcom essentially is saying "hey if you want to have fun with Street Fighter V you need to "get good".... Excuse me capcom? My whole channel is dedicated to the opposition of this hot-headed mentality. The only difference is I deal with Tekken. The IMPRESSION I have of my community is everyone is so concerned with Top Tier discussions, how many frames this move is, what player is better in competition than the other guy, calling anyone playing not a Mishima or Kazama character a "scrub", how many times I can do this electric before the guy hits the ground, combos that do 80 points of damage or greater, what fightstick is best for wavedashing, the very CONCEPT of wavedashing, Eddy Gordo is cheap, dragon tail is cheap, you're not blocking enough, you're not sidestepping enough, JDCR, Justin Wong, EVO, Final Round, my clan can beat your clans ass................. LORD. So serious. It's a game. Where is the FUN? I'm the only guy showing people, with my content, Tekken is FUN. Enjoy it. (You can check my first Tekken video uploaded, the thumbnail has that exact title. SFV needs to be fun. All this other stuff is good too. But it's a GAME before it is anything else. As I said in the beginning. Game = Fun
@Xav I know this comment's four years old, but as a casual I have considered playing competitively. But if I remember correctly Capcom dumbed down the controls for supers and stuff like parrying. which bugged me, but I get it.
I think what Angry Joe says to these elites sums it up.....'If you are happy with the game then SHUT UP...But for those who expected more they are allowed to voice their concerns'.....So to the elites and pros who complain about casuals...SHUT UP you have your game now hush hush
+Dante Vic No he's right. You got what you wanted, so why be against it when other people want something broken fixed? It's fine for you, but it's broken for them. Without critique, there can't be change.
+SuperArppis I'm happy with the game for the most part but there are people saying shit that isn't true and are calling shit out who are completely uneducated in the product. "They'll just come out for super turbo ultra edition." They said they are not doing that. "The story mode sucks" There a full one for free in June "I have to pay for the season pass to get the rest of the game?" no you don't in fact I'd be more opposed to the season pass than I am to the games current state. I'm not gonna deny its a bad deal right now but consumers need to seriously educate themselves on the product BEFORE they buy the game.
The story mode was never gonna be there on day one or ever announced for day one. The day they released the trailer for it was said it would come out in june. This is what I'm talking about. You're saying something was promised to you when it never was.
I hate this shit, don't release a half finished game. If I have to wait for features that's suppose to be in the game, don't release it until it's there.
+TaurusOxford capcom would surely recieve a giant amount of flak if they made story mode a paid DLC, but this would've been a nice way out of the problem they have in hands now
+Heatblaze123 The suits calling the shots don't see things this way - they don't play their products and have no idea what their customers are thinking (beyond fiscal reports). This industry is run by out-of-touch assholes and conceited hipsters. Can't wait for a return to the New Mexican landfill. ;)
With Street Fighter V, Capcom had only one goal; get the casual video game player interested in Street Fighter. In order to accomplish this goal, they released a game months before it should have to get it out in time for Capcom Cup and EVO, which are professional video game tournaments. Also, because they wanted to capture that casual audience so badly, they decided to remove Arcade Mode, Character trials that teach people combos, put tutorials for the characters outside of the game on their official channel, and make it so that the only way a casual player can play with others who aren't in the room with them is go to Ranked Online Match and Casual Match, where they will be absolutely decimated and turned off from playing the game. Also, in the interest of making SFV enjoyable to watch, Capcom has decided to put all of the colors behind Survival Mode, where you can spend upwards of thirty minutes trying for new colors only to get wrecked by the CPU who reads your inputs. What were they thinking?
+super koopa 64 (IRBS) That's not why survival is bad. That's one of 10 power options and the rest are not like that at all. It isn't the best because of the A.I. and length.
MAX I'm so loving you more for saying this "real talk". I am now proud to say that I am one of those guys. I always thought that I had to be competitive because that's where the gaming community is going (or has already gone) because casual play with friends in your house is dead, or that's what I thought anyway. So there I would go online and try to beat the gods of SSF4AE or TTT2 and then get stressed over not getting any better but you made me feel so much better about it max. I love fighting games and not because of the competitive Era or the online onslaught but because I just do, even in movies I just love martial arts movies. Everything you said about picking a character and just admiring the graphics or to reach the end of tower or arcade mode to see a clip of your favorite character is so true. I really think they messed up this time. I mean Capcom has pulled some stuff in the past and we let it pass but this is ridiculous. Max you have inspired me to be myself. I will play so much more casual and won't feel like I have to play online. The 99% of crowd that are at Evo are most likely the same too. Thank you senpai
Max is speaking gold here! Have plenty of disposal revenue, not buying because as a casual, we are isolated. Who gives two shits about 100x combo. Max is right, we want to have fun. We have a real life to live, not master street fighter lol.
+TheChairman There are many different kinds of "fun" in the world dude. I'm not good at fighting games, but I want to be. And i'm pretty sure that some players get their "fun" out of doing that 100x combo. If your not hype for that kind of thing it's fine, but it damn sure doesn't make you better than the rest of us.
+David Davis I think his point was that there is no organic way to learn the mechanics of the game in it's current iteration. Nobody wants to spend 6 hours getting bodied online just to learn the same shit arcade or challenge mode would have taught them in 1.
+Bill Roger You know, he has a "real life", one that's not fantasy. He's caught in a landslide with no escape from reality. Opens his eyes, looks up to the skies and sees that he's just a poor boy, though he wants no sympathy because he's easy come, easy go, with little high's and little lows. Any way the wind blows doesn't really matter to him. To him.
+Tao Exactly, he's deluded himself with what's "real" and what isn't because the world told him so... yet, the same people who told us that lied in our faces. Cycle that for 1000+ years and you have what everyone lives in "reality". A cold reality where, most of us live check by check full of stress and need outlets to vent... all for the sake of supplying the Jewish Bankers with more money. Trying to somewhat have some fun? Well people like OP here will come up to you and tell you to live "real" life just to kill your damn vibe. This is the exact kind of bs that gets on my nerves. Lol
I like the story mode I will give them that but as of right now killer instinct is where the bar is highest set for as arcade mode updates and netcode for fighting games
People REALLY need to stop defending Capcom. Yes, they went into detail on how the launch was gonna work, but NOBODY said that we would not be getting such basic fighting game modes. Hell, even UMvC3 does better in that regard. Last time I heard, I think Capcom didn't even consider an Arcade Mode for SF5 at all. Max, if you can get Ono, Rosas, and the rest of Capcom to watch this video and actually pay attention to all the negative feedback, that would be awesome.
+Zenith683 "this is why you don't preorder or buy games day 1 (in this day and age)" Not unless you're buying Japanese games (and/or Limited Editions for that matter), most of which typically have low print runs, some never even making it to store shelves in some areas.
+Tjoeb123 I'll just defend things when they actually do something right. What I like what Capcom did with SFV is they made it more basic. On top of that, the fight money mechanic that rewards people for playing the game is a good thing. However, I feel SFV suffers the same problem I gave Splatoon where even though it was promised to have more content coming in the future, there was not enough content Day 1 to warrant its $60 price tag. In fact, I actually think it did worse than Splatoon considering Splatoon's online play was actually functional.
+Random Ron Those two are comparable but not at the same time. One was a new IP and Nintendo had no idea how it was going to be received. Street Fighter is an established franchise and Capcom knew what was needed to be in the game at launch from the get go (not to mention one would think Sony's money would have helped with that or at least have a better title screen). Ironically, I bought both games at launch and enjoyed both of them, but I got more enjoyment out of Splatoon on day 1 (not being one of those people that jumps online immediately might have helped with that) that SFV on day 1. I will say that I agreed with Yahtzee when he mentioned that a fully priced game has to stand on it's own with single player because the multiplayer has too many factors the game has no control over.
A true arcade mode, working online, player vs CPU, more characters, additional PC controller support, Clipping issues sorted...that is an acceptable launch
+bob dole More characters is not an issue for this game's launch. Skullgirls is a fantastic fighter and at the end of its life it still had less characters than this game does now. The other points though I totally agree with, though online is working fine for me at the moment.
1 point you missed is that without casual fans filling those seats at tournaments there would be no tournaments. Prize pools would be a lot worse. It is the same as "casual" football fans, the hardcores try to become players but its the people who are fans that enable the sport to even exist. Without casuals there would be no pros. At least no pros making money.
I absolutely 100% agree with you Max. The one issue I have with some of the competitive players (hardcore fans of any genre in general) is the need to either bash or dismiss the casual fans of the series. The whole "get gud" mentality is one of the worst things to come out of the fighting community. I've been a huge fan of the series since SF2 back in the arcade and have played the series since the original SF. I'm no top tier player nor do I have the time anymore to really become a great player anymore I always welcome new comers to the series. I will always sit with them even if they have no prior knowledge of the series because new fans have to start somewhere. If they decided to actually get better and play more competitively then that great. If they only really play the offline content then guess what? That's great too. People should stop alienating anyone that doesn't have as much knowledge on the series or if they just want to play offline. Well done Max and well said.
+SilverShion So you expect a majority demographic that buys this game that doesn't give a shit about tournaments to pay their $60 now for bare bone content/mediocre online and wait until the game is complete months from now? Genius Capcom that won't shoot them in foot at all in not just the opening week, but legs too.
+Newtype89 scovelle there are several things wrong with adjusting the cost or having different versions. for starters you would lose HALF of your revenue for a making a full game because even if its not in the game right now, the work and cost associated with it are still a very real thing. everybody who bought it day 1 for 30$ isn't going to turn around a buy it later for 60$. you could charge 30$ then do a 30$ update, to lose all your fanbsase or you could do another full VERSION and then nobody believes anything they say anymore since thats specifically what SF5 is supposed to NEVER do. the reason its 60$ no matter what is because thats the most basic it can get and adjusting for a game thats going to become outdated in a few weeks is pointless.
+Millicente what I think is that they should have released the game in March with the update content, and had a sort of extended beta period going on until then. That would satisfy both the competitive audience and the casual audience. The competitive side would have time to practice and get good, and the casual audience would have more content to play with.
+Chuggles McMeow Yeah that's a good comparison and one that bothers me :( I loved the campaign, but other than that the multiplayer is either too competitive to play solo (Arena) or too wacky and out of control (Warzone). There's no social playlists for a middle ground, and no way to just chill in that game. The promise of esports fame is getting to the heads of game developers, and they're forgetting to make a good game first, and turn it into a competitive game after
+Chuggles McMeow yeah, you're right dude, it's not cool that now i can't play split-screen online with my friend :(, that was one of the best functions in Halo since Halo Combat Evolved, and the removed it in Halo 5 :'(, that's kinda sad T_T
+Chuggles McMeow Halo 5 actually *had* single player content, though. It wasn't the best but it was there. It isnt even *there* in SF5 so u can't compare the two. Halo was worth a full price buy, this - this is a skeletal game worth $20 at best.
+heatguyg I don't think you can really compare these 2 games because they have a totally different Fighting System. MKX is a really good game with a superb Story Mode and lots of unlocking stuffs etc...but the Combat System just isn't doing it for me. SF has always been superior on that part in my opinion. Both Games are pretty entertaining on their own levels and all this compare bullshit is just bugging me man. I can have both games and like both games for different reasons. Maybe I am lucky but online works fine and quick for me.
Alot of negative assholes bashed Killer instinct for costing $30 less than what street fighter 5 with more content. I like Street Fighter 5 but the hate and ass kissing thats coming from the Playstation community is ridiculous. I mean how hypocritical can you be. Are these guys todlers?
+kentray Swagger thats not the ps community, thats the street fighter FAN BASE, of course it looks like ps4 owners are winning but SF is ps4 exclusive so the fan base is on ps4
I agree. I'm in no way a Street Fighter apologist (I don't think Capcom is approaching the launch in the best fashion, but I kinda understand why they went with this strategy), but the hate for this game is ridiculous. As always, more haters and negativity overshadow another fine Capcom fighting game.
while i do like SFV, Max is right! SFV, as of right now, is more meant for the competitive players, and is not worth it for casuals. I understand that they want to release it early due to Capcom Pro Tour, but i feel they should've delayed it till March since most of the content comes out in March in a free update. Casuals i think should wait till March, if not, June to purchase the game! Besides, casuals are always important. That's why MKX is the perfect example of a game that both casuals and competitive players can enjoy!
They should've released an "early buy" edition (or early access digital version) that specifically outlines the modes available and its schedule for future patches, then we can know only idiots would be upset. That said, I have no idea why they couldn't program a vs cpu or arcade mode for the game, those should be available at launch.
+MrAgentIncognito They should've done blah. Didn't happen. So don't worry about it. If they charged any less than $60, not much profit would be made, and they already advertised the game is coming out on February.
I don't see why Capcom couldn't have thrown together an Arcade Mode. If it had one, this backlash would be significantly smaller. Big mistake, on their part.
apparently ARCADE MODE might be released with the march update along with the trails/challenges an updated battle lounge to allow more players in and ALEX from sf3
bennymountain1 True, but look at what's happening now. They really messed up, and I'm sure they regret it. Obviously they had no idea, that people were going to be so mad about this. But to your average Joe, this seems like a no-brainer. I don't know what they were thinking.
Man nobody care about single player. Fuck causal. Max say it himself. It's only important cause it's to make money. Money off stupid people who buy games and play one week and be done with it. Same with devil may cry. Shit game keep doing same missions over on higher difficulty. Fuck casual. Let's all fuck up gaming company's revenue and start all over.
Then Capcom should've released a downloadable arcade version with local multiplayer for free or 4.99 instead to prepare players. Not a beta released for 60$ to the public retailers if their focus were pros. Capcom went full mentally retarded. There is no defense for this.
+KhoiBoa That's cool and all but then they shouldn't charge full price, or even an above average price for it. This game in it's currents state just isn't worth more than maybe $30~$35
KhoiBoa "Man nobody care about single player." Uh, since when? From what I know from Battlefront, and this game. A LOT of people care about the single player mode. In fact in fighting games. That is the first thing you focus on. To unlock characters, gain in-game currency, learn character's playstyle, combos, and moves, fight with the CPU in difficulties (which funny enough, people are having trouble with in Survival mode in SFV), get character stories, and endings. Nobody just buys a game to only go into online without learning the mechanic, and unlocking stuff.
Max, when you say or do things I don't agree with I'll make it known, but when you speak the truth ill absolutely give you your props. In this video you're absolutely speaking the truth. Those "hardcore" players that hate anyone who doesn't lurk SRK constantly are worse than casuals. Bottom line here. 1. It's not even debatable that SFV's launch was horrid content wise. 2. Casual dollars spend just as well as hardcore players. 3. Launches like this destroy games and the gaming industry
I just discovered this and I love it. No casual gamer has ever said "Oh I'm glad you can do linked combo strings in a 3 frame window now instead of a 1 frame window now. Day 1 buy!"
people aren't gonna wait and then buy the game. SFV has put itself in such a hole will this release people just aren't gonna buy it. The only thing that would actually help is a updated rerealse ( super, ultra) but then Capcom fucks itself over by lying to their fans when they already said they wouldn't do this.
+Adloquium Dubious Oh look, a person with sense who looked at a game, saw they didn't like it, and didn't buy it. A nice change compared to buying a game you know nothing about and being like "WHAT THE HELL? THIS WASN'T WHAT I EXPECTED!"
+Pyroniusburn IKR?? You have this thing called the Internet and you can LITERALLY look stuff up about the shit you're planning to spend *60 bucks* on in a minute! Seriously, people who're ignorant about this whole SFV thing and still bought the game AND afterwards complain about it deserve it. I'm just gonna wait till the update and I even bet the game is fixed by then and obviously the missing content will be available by then. It'll probably be cheaper by then too... So... What's the problem again...? Isn't that a win-win? :D
Well in their defense no real fighting game is gonna let newcomers beat pros once the buy the game. I mean what game can you think of that lets newcomers beat pros? There’s no shortcuts for practice
I really can't agree with you about the 1-frame links. They 100% made the correct decision to take them out. I was a complete fighting game noob up until not very long ago. I can say without a doubt that the hardest part about playing them was knowing what I wanted my character to do and just not being able to do it. At first, I did struggle with consistent execution, but once I grinded that out, the big obstacle was timing. The only game in which this was an issue for me was Street Fighter IV. In all the other games I tried playing, including BlazBlue, Guilty Gear, and Injustice, there were some combos that required timing, but not such a strict level of it. Perhaps there are combos in those games with frame-perfect timing, but I am at least able to perform all the reasonably good combos I want to without any trouble. In SFIV, enough combos involve 1 frame links that I feel crippled because I can only do them once in a blue moon.
Your observation that 1-frame links increase longevity is misleading. Yes, combos took longer to discover, but not all combos made a significant enough difference in the metagame to increase the longevity of the game at all. Furthermore, even if they did, this is an artificial way to pad out the game's lifespan. Essentially, since not everything that was possible for a player to do was known, players were not playing at the highest level they could until much later. They weren't really playing SFIV, they were playing SFIV: Some Combos Unknown Edition. All the possible combos being easier to discover, even though they're discovered faster, leads to a healthier, higher-level metagame faster. In soccer, the entire play space is clear from the beginning. Nobody is discovering new ways to score goals through the side of the net or anything like that. Soccer has lasted for a long-ass time.
+The Soul Not Sold So, would that make me wrong? Max claimed that the timing being more lenient wouldn't help casuals, but if I'm a casual and it helps me, then doesn't this solidify my argument?
+The Soul Not Sold i dont have massively hypersonic reactions dude. People in online only are: 1pro player(e-sport dude A) hardcore player(e-sport dude B)
+Jake Seary Eh, I support your argument for a different reason. In particular how much emphasis on the Home Market is placed on Online play in almost every game now. 1 frame links in an online setting is lame as hell. You can adjust to the timing, but its often a little different than local play depending on the net code. Just for practicality reasons alone I'm not fond of it.
+ndv diaz This is horseshit. Casual players are the people who buy Street Fighter to play online and with other people. It's the "hardcore gamers" that need single player in every game and come to these youtube videos to bitch because it's easier than just learning how to play. Real casuals don't concern themselves with playing by themselves or buy games on day one en masse.
The moral of the story is, if you like content, and dont have any specific reason to jump instantly. Wait months if not a year for the game. It will have all the features it suppose to have, and probably will be cheaper.
+super koopa 64 (IRBS) that was hard to do apperntly. so its ok, that just mean im can wait a year, so it have all the ultra hyper mega impresive and amazing content that it is suppose to have. And it could even be on sale, so why get rip off now, if you can get a great deal later.
+SamuraiMotoko Thats wat I did with destiny, but now everyone i play with is butt hurt and ether stopped. their been their and done that attitude when ever i ask to play sucks and im being forced to do shit alone (that is designed for a fire team) or with randoms who are some times that angry day one buyer. the grass is almost greener man.....almost....if your okay with feeling lonely with 5 friends sitting next to you.
I completely agree with this video. Capcom really shot themselves in the foot with so little single-player content in SF V, especially when MK X already raised the bar for fighting games.
***** I never said or even implied that Capcom are forcing me to buy this game. I don't mind that Capcom and Sony will be getting my money when I buy the game. What I do care about, is giving them money only when I feel the product has enough content to justify the price.
That shot themselves in the foot by making SFV a PS4 and PC game only. if they are doing as bad as make it seem shouldn't they ecpamd it to Xbone and maybe even to Nintendo.
+MotherRat It has improved online which is where over 99% of SF time is spent anyways. Fuck arcade mode. I'd gladly throw away a near worthless mode for slightly improved online functionality, great new characters, and a new combat system. The single-player stuff is coming soon anyways.
+Candy Cane Thats what I've been saying, hopefully this arcade mode deal is sorted out by then as well but at the minimum my filthy casual self will not spend anything until the story mode update comes in
+Candy Cane Its that simple. More people should think like you ... The solution to that problem, which is not really a problem at all, because capcom announced the lack of content way before launch, is just waiting to buy the game, till the content is avaible most of the people are waiting for.
What the hell happened to gaming? This shit is absolutely ridiculous somebody needs to shed some light on some of the shady shit that's been going on lately... Some of this shit that's happening in the gaming industry is on the verge of being downright illegal. We're getting less for even more!!! Wake the fuck up people.
Calm your tits. The game is getting tons of new characters and gameplay updates for free, and the full single player modes, including the full story will be released by July. The game just released early. It's the same as if they made you pre-order the game and just had this be a beta or early access period until all the features are released over the next few months. What they did isn't criminal, it's just bad business and is going to cause a backlash.
Segata Jonshiro Man, Shut yo damage controlling ass up. Save your bullshit excuses for someone who's gullible enough to buy into that fuckin bullshit. xD LOL
Segata Jonshiro I knew one of you idiots would say something stupid ass shit like that. What you said was not even a valid or reasonable point dude. xD LOL
Segata Jonshiro They had you agree to *Terms and Conditions* after you pressed start to go into the actual fuckin game dude. This shit was calculated... And y'all fell for it. xD LOL
There are WAY WAY more casuals (like me) out there. Its like Capcom said, well we need our cash quick so lets grab one chunk now and one chunk later when we actually finish the game. I am so glad I did not get SFV. I had it pre ordered but when I heard there was NO arcade mode.. NO two round vs CPU matches... No unlocking certain items until March - June... I knew then this was poison. Any pro out there was once a casual... IMO Capcom has really embarrassed themselves and I love SF. always have. but I might pass on this and just wait for Dark Souls 3. there is also MKXL with A REAL story mode, real online KOTH, real arcade mode, real survivor mode.... and wait.. DOUBLE the roster.
***** You are absolutly correct about these features! That is a positive thing about streetfighter. but without Features/modes... someone like me cannot enjoy a game that is basically only online. I am the opposite of an online competitor. I like to relax. unlock all the goodies, offline trophies, for example. i have had MKX since release.. i have most likely played online MAYBE 100 matches. and that was to unlock the costumes.
+outworlddragoon They didnt release it early because they needed cash. The real reason why they released it now, was because of upcoming big tournament events. But other than that, if they wouldnt have released it now then they would have released it later, when the rest of the content would be done. The same would occure if those people who complain now, even though they did all know that before launch, would just wait and buy it later when the other content will be avaible. People need to learn to be patient and determine their own personal release by waiting to buy it, because no matter what, you need to wait for the rest of content, cause its still in development. If capcom wouldnt have announced all of that, then i would understand all the complain, but the customer literally agreed on these circumstances on that contract if he is buying the game now. Only if they dont keep their promise, then there is a real reason to complain.
Casuals are important, but that doesn't mean you should forget about the "hardcore" audience, which are the ones that put Street Fighter where it is today. There should be a limit to how much these developers dumb down their games, cause otherwise it just ends up being a mess. People should accept the fact that sometimes you have to practice to get good at an activity. That's what makes the experience more fun, going from this newcomer to a pretty decent player is so rewarding in fighting games, and it's a big part of the reason why FGC matches are so hype.
I don't think putting in a vs cpu mode or arcade mode is dumming the game down. I'm not very good at this game so I could care less about playing online so there's basically nothing for me in this game which is sad cause I really enjoyed usf4
Ryan Soares Oh I agree with that. I'm a competitive player but I refuse to pay for SFV at its current state. It lacks a lot of features that are standard for any fighting game today.
+Kempes SFA I'm new to street fighter in general so I'm not very familiar with the past titles but are you talking about the "removal" of one frame links and option selects and stuff like that? I really don't see how those things were good for the game to begin with, even at a competitive level.
+Kempes SFA "going from this newcomer to a pretty decent player is so rewarding in fighting games" yeah that's 100% true, but not everyone that plays the game are going to think that, they just want to call everyone to play a random 1x1 game to have some fun, they don't want to get good at it and don't really care about getting good at it, maybe after some time they might change their mind, but that's kind of rare.
Well as a person who enjoys both I want my singlplayer but my beef is 16 base roster character really nigga yeah dlc on the way but for me every fighter this gen should have more than 24 charecters mkx had 25 doa5 22 street fighter 4 the first version had more than 16 if I remeber right might be mixing up versions pro player or not all fighter should have a base roster of 24 with four skins and bio cause many pro players will say they don't play singlplayer whatever's ok bit this pro or casuals that do want their single player content why not realese street figter 5 in June better they couldn't of have all the dlc characters and modes and amazing net code cause rigt now it's not that good and have longer story mode and ai battles and make new dlc characters if they did that their base roster would of been 24 so verdict good gameplay it's balanced good art style also multiplayer and stage theme and charcater themok that's 5/10 no modes little roster no ai battles really?etc
As a semi hardcore fan of SFV i have to say im happy with it but my casual friends cancelled their preorder because of lack of content and will probably buy another game. They said they would pick it up until march or if not june. It makes me sad but I realize its a pain for casuals. But I was also disappointed with the lack of content also.
Max, this put a lot of things into perspective for me and hopefully a few others. I always thought fighting games in general were marketed at times for competitive gamers as opposed to casual gamers, but after watching this, your absolutely right. Without the casual gamers watching or wanting to play these type of games, there probably wouldn't be any new potential players at competitions like EVO or at local events. Think about it? It starts at a friend's house with a small tournament, which leads to playing more online matches, at local events, and someday even possibly EVO.
+Heatblaze123 Between Rashid's Arab-hood thing clipping through his backpack and Chun-Li's "Boobs only Jiggle on Player 2's side", I can't help but these are just smaller symptoms of much larger issues plaguing this unfinished game.
Oh Max gets it, these games don't thrive on the pro players alone. Capcom didn't need to release the game yet. THey could have just opened the beta servers for the pro players to practice on. The steam store page made no mention that it's the "rushed out for the pros" version. Capcom earned it's review scorn this time around. 5 is doing a lot of things right, but the launch is not one of them.
Dismissal of casuals has already effected the fighting game genre... There's no new IP in fighting games. No new fighting games that change the mechanics totally. The elitist attitudes of the competitive scenes has already shrank the market to only the most hard core of games. I get that there's no need to reinvent the wheel but where's the passion that sparked SFII, MK, and the old SNK fighters? Where are the innovators that will make the next evolution of even the basic button layout of fighters? The next evolution of specials and supers, or even how to win in an fighting game? Look at all the franchises that are all but dead because there is not a big scene following them, Dead or Alive, Virtua Fighter, Soul Calibur, Samurai Shodown and many others. Some people like myself play to get just good enough to have fun with the game, not eveyone wants to be atop a worldwide leader board.
I have a troubled history with fighting games. Bought some a few years back on hype alone, played for a few hours then quit due to a combination of either no local scene, no friends, or terrible netcode. The one I probably spent the most time with was SF4 around Arcade/2012 edition. Sadly, no matter how much I played, I never felt myself improving. I even went to the newbie area of SRK asking for help and was pretty much told to come back when my save file had a few more hundred hours on it. The day SF4 broke me I will never forget. It was a usual night with some online friends in a private lobby and the losses finally got to me. I went on a vocal tirade so hard that when I went to the bathroom a few minutes later the blood vessels in my eyes had burst. After that I pretty much gave up fighting games for my personal health, resided myself to never being able to be good at fighting games, and simply watch others as the scrub I am. Now after 4-5 years I feel like I've had enough of a break from fighting games to come back to them, but I'm not that confident about it. I even tried the Rising Thunder alpha several months back and the same issues are still there. Even if you remove the execution requirement, people with years of experience and proper fundamentals will still crush people like me who are still trying to learn. I guess my point with all this is I feel like I don't matter within the entirety of the FGC. My lack of confidence leads to a self repeating cycle of losing and getting mad and giving up instead of trying to get better. Where's the positive reinforcement to help out players in a situation similar to me? And I'm not talking about hand holding or being talked down to. I just don't want to feel like total garbage because I'm not amazing at a game I want to enjoy.
Survival Mode is annoying, there is no option that will allow you to continue after a bullshit death. They need to add an option that will allow you to Select "Continue" by giving up half or maybe even all of the points earned from previous survival rounds.
Spot on, Max! Great episode. The value of SFV fluctuates depending on what you want out of it. Right now, if I was a casual who just wanted to play through a story I'd be pissed. And for the past 20 years I have been that casual player. But SFV is the first fighting game I want to learn properly and 'get good'' at so between the online, training and survival modes I feel I have gotten value for money. And that's saying something because it cost me $120 here in Australia (including season pass)!!!!!!! (I dont even want to think about the total once I factor in an arcade stick)
+Marshall D. Teach I saw an interview with a game publisher a few years ago (cant remember name, sorry), but he said they charge what the market can bare. To translate, they'll charge whatever they can get away with. ps shipping doesnt factor into it - i purchased mine digitally. oh well, australia fucking rules for the most part so im not gonna bitch too much.
+Marshall D. Teach I appreciate the support mate :). If expensive video games is my biggest problem though Im doing ok. No point stressing about what I cant change. anyway, im in a super good mood right now because my fight stick came today.
Wow, it was nice to hear someone talking about the non-pro/not so serious side of fighting games. Among friends and thinking back to my school days, we were all casual players. The draw for us and the reason we bough each new installment of Tekken (or any other fighter) was exactly as you mentioned: to play through arcade/story mode with each character to see their extro movie and maybe learn a few combos with our favorite characters. When that was done, we would consider the game 'cleared'. Other than that it was just some laid-back versus mode fun or fooling around with the bonus modes or blind-folded competitions. I was a semi-outcast for learning the 10-hit combos and trying to do King's rolling death cradle :) Uh-oh, I mentioned Tekken in a Street Fighter video. NOOOooooooooo!
you are making a great point, as an ex competitive player, also as a game developer I think you are absolutely right.. another example are real sports itself, there are a lot of people that just buy shirts, balls, equipment and never uses it in any kind of competition, but they just like to have it or play with their friends. the fact of having hard or easy to perform combos doesn't make a competitive game.. players that only relay on that are as casual as the players they attack
So I basically bought SFV for its online, but I completely agree with everything you said Max. it's really scary to think this decision to release the game at its current state will ultimately and possibly kill this game, despite how good it actually is. I am a little confused as to why you mentioned the 1frame to 3frame link change though. 1frame links in other fighting games not called sf4 were rare to begin with, and even if they still existed, they don't make combos that spectacular anyways.
+PokeFighter Jr yeah, that's the only part i disagree with in this vid. A lot of fighting game execution isn't that nuts, and SFIV had a lot of wacky option selections and plinking tech. Easier execution leaves more room for focus on big damage and footsies, imo
JusticeSoulTuna It also kinda contradicts his own point. SFV focuses on the true aspects of what makes players good, which are things are arent based around tech. Combos have never made someone good at a game. It just means you can do a lot of damage to a stationary target lol.
***** I agree. But I figured this was just his personal perspective on execution, so it didn't bother me that much. His overall message resonates better.
I guess. I'm sure some people will focus more on the specifics of what he said, than what he was trying to convey. I used to do that, but i realized it's just opinion. I'm just glad I wasn't the only one to notice how casuals are put off by this game, weirdly enough because of the lack of content. i thought it'd be because they can get beaten easily, but i guess there's that too
Thank you for being "my voice" about Street Fighter V. I really love this franchise, I'm super excited by what's coming for the game but right now, as a casual (and historical player since the SNES) i'm a bit frustrated by what's available for single player. I hope the guys @CAPCOM will give us something 'cause as you said, we "the casuals" matters for the future of this kind of game. Finally, you're right about one thing as well, even though we (the casuals) are not about the online or the competition(s), we are curious about what the great fighters like Daigo and the rest of the competitive community do withe the game. At the end we all love fighting games, Street Fighter and punching someone vitually… on or offline. Thanks again… and thanks for the news. From France.._.
I definitely agree with your analysis of street fighter V, I can understand both perspectives why people are fine with it because the competitive online and why people are flustered for a 60 dollar purchase. I personally am fine with them addressing the issues as time goes on but Not everyone unfortunately will follow capcom P.R to the point of researching their statements about not releasing all the content overtime. I mainly feel bad for the people who used their money allowance for this month on the game expecting a full product and then seeing its not in its completed state, meanwhile they also had another game in mind they wanted to purchase and pushed that purchase to the side. Awesome video! I can see the pros and cons in this, they probably should have announced this somewhere either Before a DLC purchase, or on the hardcopy itself as a "ARE YOU SURE" kinda thing. Keep up the amazing work bro!
I love both games, but launch wise, yeah. But please don't turn this into a bitter vs thread. Street fighter will definitely pick up the pace with the free updates pretty soon.
+Shock Vox (Soldier K) Uhm no, Its called having an opinion. I bought SF5 and think it's a horrible game, like most people, who actually have an understanding on how games are made good. Stop fan boying and take some criticism. My opinion doesn't effect how you feel about the game.
+Shock Vox (Soldier K) And also, yes. Yes, Mortal Kombat X is a much better fighting game, and overall better game on general. That's not rocket science.
Factor in SFV is an exclusive, this means that it needs every sale it can get to ensure the future of the series, some hardcore players are naive, nay stupid, if they think the series will just continue to grow just because of tournaments. Hardcore needs casuals FAR more than casuals need the hardcore.
Playing SF2 on the SNES with friends is how I gained a love for fighting games, but it wasn't the competitive nature that bit me first, it was playing on a single controller passing it around for hours trying to clear arcade mode on different difficulties. Sharing stories of that experience got my GF interested and she was looking forward to hanging out and playing the arcade modes together on launch day. Surprise surprise. I understand adding features in later, like a proper story mode, but arcade mode not being there is a massive disappointment.
I was about to buy it, regardless of the negative reviews, since I do like going online and fighting; hell, I used to play sf4 online for over 11 hours a day back on 2010. But then I read the game was purposely rushed for the tournament scene and the fgc, and at that point I decided to not even bother. I am not going to support a company that releases garbage, because it's not only the lack of features, even the present features are not functioning correctly. And only to please a minority, who are in fact a bunch of assholes, no thank you. Max is cool and I'm even subscribed, but others like gootecks and mike ross and the like, nah ah, purged from my recommended list immediately. I might consider buying the game down the line, if it has a major discount like a summer sale or something, but no, Id rather just watch Max if I have a need for a fighting game fix.
+Jestersmile's Stream Someone not buying the game and shaming Capcom because of the interest of a minority, is a minority on its own. I'm not buying this game because I'm not interested in it, I'm part of a minority as well because I don't have a specific complaint the game making me not want to buy it. So we are all part of some minority. Not just casuals or competitive players.
+ChidoriSnake It is hard to not think that the hardcore scene is filled with assholes. I have met people who saidnto my face that since I am a casual fighting game player my voice does not matter at all. Like who do that, oh because I haven't visited a tournament outside of the ones that we did at my school nothing I say matters. I hate this elitist attitude, people have a right to be mad that there is not arcade mode because not everyone has time to play for hours online
I really don't get the logic of the people who say Capcom should have waited. All the DLC is free, so why not release the game a little early. This way at least you have something now with more to come, verses having more later with less to come.
+JMarsella9 They are essentially using DLC to complete a game. Look at a game like smash bros wii u..... It launched with about 50 characters, tons of stages, collectibles, modes, and tons of other stuff. They released a big, complete game then expanded on it with DLC to make it more awesome. SFV is not complete, it's playing catch-up with dlc not expanding.
+Matthew Cangelosi Let's say they waited a month or two until they had more finished content. That game would be exactly the same regardless. You literally lose nothing from it coming out now. The only difference is you had a few extra months to play.
JMarsella9 A problem is that casuals will shy away from this game because of the lack of content. Many people just buy games and don't revisit them so SFV won't get as much praise as it could have if it had...say 24 characters, 20 stages, a few more modes, and a story at launch. This could mean less sales which could mean less fighting games from capcom and not as much DLC support as this game could have had.
+Zenith683 Don't use quotes, it is free. Splatoon did it and I was fine with that as well. Think of it instead then that you're preordering SFV and you get to play half the game early instead, cause that's basically what it is.
I'm just a little sad that Capcom messed up so badly with SFV. The game is fun as hell but, just as Max says, the casual fans are the ones that decide whether or not a game is a success. The fact that its mostly an online game at the moment is fine for people who love to play online and learn the game through real matches, but for everyone else who has to learn the game or prefers a more solo experience and may not be as willing to put time into the game see it as a rip off. The game is definitely not completely finished, but that's mostly had timing on Capcoms part. If SFV had come out later, I'm sure the general public reaction would have been positive.
It would be amazing that, somehow, SFV does well, Capcom bring back Darkstalkers. It's nothing more than a wish right now, but one day we might be able to play a new Darkstalkers.
honestly the whole 3-frame-links thing is what turned me on right away for sf5; when im playing sf4 i have the feeling that you cant get any good damage except for when punishing extremely misplaced dps or whatever... i hate to have to learn hard combos with 1-frame links i really appreciate the way sf5 is doing this !!
It's mediocre. the characters in the background move at 30 FPS, the background textures are pretty ugly and the further back you can see the worse it gets. guilty gear Xrd is still the best looking fighting game to date next to skullgirls and king of fighters 13
Nah I don't think he meant it that way,he mean the people who put thousands of hours on fighting games specifically,and of he said pro players it would sound even MORE pretentious,so he just used a lesser pretentious one. But trust me,he didn't mean it that way
Wow, this is a very well thought out and calm explanation about the current situation of SFV, from both sides of the spectrum. This was a joy to watch, good job Max. I just really hope Capcom picks up the ball, or SFV is given a review in a more complete state. As it stands, it has huge potential to be a great complete game for multiple audiences, but they should've been a LOT more careful with this launch. Perhaps with clearer labels for the average consumer (who is not constantly informed) to know what they were getting with their inmediate purchase.
Perfect summation of the situation Max. Nailed it on the head with the insulting Survival mode - a mode where 1.5 hours of boring grinding and 49 fights gets you NOTHING if you lose the 50th - it will randomly string together health low near the end too, leaving you absolutely screwed.
"They don't want to go online" Well, that's their fault for buying a game that's centered about competitive online, and expecting great single player experience. And about content - goddammit, CS:GO doesn't have single player content at all. But it's selling like crazy. Everybody's playing it. Casuals as well. And you have to buy it too, it's not free like LoL (which is another online only, super-competitive game, but free). The problem here aren't the games themselves. It's the genre. People just don't want to play fighting games. And about MK? Why did it sell so well? Because people want to, as you said, see the fatalities and/or X-Rays. The end. They don't want to actually play the game. Are casuals important? Yes, because they're the (bigger) part of the market. But casuals aren't the ones who kept fighting games alive.
+AdiXeR3 Yeah, some angry amazon reviews seem to be people that bought Minecraft for the Story, CS Go for the Singe Player Campaign or Super Mario for it's Online Multiplayer :D People should get their information straight before buying something blind so they won't be disappointed. For myself, I got more than I wished for with SFV - totally happy :)
If they're the bigger part of the market then they DO keep fighting games alive. Money is what dictates support and additions, not RUclips combo videos.
Great vid, Max! I'm a casual player myself who enjoys 1P vs. CPU, an arcade and/or story mode, and trial modes like SFIV's. I do like playing online too, but can't jump in right away and expect to come out on top in a fight because I lack the necessary skill and understanding of some of SFV's mechanics and combos. And that's the problem: SFV's fighting feels fantastic and the game's very polished overall in terms of mechanics and presentation. It just lacks the modes to teach newcomers or casuals how to use all its different options and how to develop their skill sets. Because of it I have a very hard time recommending the gameto others or even playing it myself (like you mentioned: the difficulty spikes in survival are insane and, again, the game does nothing to prepare you for those).
Thats what I do, Im not a hardcore competitive player. Ive been playing Street Fighter since the original World Warriors, and I simply play to unlock everything if there things to unlock and play the AI to get the character endings. Thats about it, aside from couch VS on occasion. If there are things to unlock online, I will only play long enough to unlock them and then play "offline" as it were.
Yeah, I've noticed a shift in how fighting games are being more tailored to the more hardcore pro side of the community as far as 4 to 5 yrs ago. Because they are the most vocal when it comes to supporting the games in general. Even still the numbers of casual non pro hardcore players out number those that do travel to tournaments to compete offline. And Max nailed it on the head concerning how there is a large part of the FGC who don't really want to compete at a high level. Just like the sport of Basketball.Anyone can buy and pick up a Basketball and just play a game of Basketball. You don't have to be athletically gifted( but it helps) or be able to dunk just to ball on a court.Now if your good enough you can join a youth or adult league.Play for your grade or high school.If you're really good you may get a scholarship to play college ball. If your a stud in college you may great drafted to play in the NBA or play pro over seas. I think ever since the infamous Sirlin Rant on "Playing to win" many hardcore players in the FGC has made it a community wide doctrine. Granted the standard of play in fighting games overall has been raised.Which is a good thing to a certain extent. But not to the point you alienate the most dominate side of the FGC in terms of a games overall success. And that's the Fan/ casual players . All of our Sports became more than just a game when everyday people became fans. These fans supported the sport by supporting their team or favorite teams either by volunteering or spending money to see them play. If just the pro and hardcore community were buying the games these games wouldn't continue being produced. Just ask the Virtua Fighter on why they didn't get hard copy of VF5 to own and instead just got a digital copy. Its from lack of support and having a large number of people supporting the game. IF just the hardcore just supported the games,games would sell about 200.000 to 300,000 copies. But companies are looking to sell about a million units or more just to cover the cost of producing the game. There is a side of the FGC that is very vocal and very selfish about their love of the game.Once that side gets over itself and realize that the game is for everyone then the FGC as a community will be better off.
As a casual who is trying to transition to more competitive play I don`t see what the drawback is to more offline content(i.e. towers/arcade mode, story modes, etc..) since for one when I practice I like to go from a practice mode to fighting the cpu to better refine my skills and work out combos before putting them to the test online plus it`s a great way to feel out the game and it`s characters before going online, second it can be nice if you`re tired or just not feeling up to the challenge like after a rough day of work/school to flip on the console, set the difficult to easy/medium/whatever and just play the game, and last but not least it`s more content plain and simple it`s more of what you love why just have online matches when you can have online matches AND towers/arcades AND a good story mode to play through. And on top of all that by having these features that draw in casuals money that reflects in the games sales with the cost of making games today the competitive players alone could not support a game not unless you want to pay an absurd price
I appreciate Max for saying this, because he just described me. I am not a pro fighting game player, I'm not even an average player. I am a offline scrub. When Street Fighter 4 came out I played that game a lot with friends and offline arcade mode. Even though I may not be topping the ranks, I still to this day support the FGC and what it is. I recently watched most of the regional tournaments. I LOVE WATCHING Street Fighter 5 tournaments. I still get hyped as hell when someone can clutch a 2-0 situation to a 2-3. I follow a lot of pro players on twitter and on twitch and interact with the community. The one thing I can't do, is invest the money into Street Fighter 5 for what it is currently is. I just don't see the long term value for a person like me.
Blinktalent I agree . There are way more fans of sf and ppl who aren’t any good who still support the franchise.. casuals are important.. I’ve been playing since 1994 and still don’t have it down to a science haha
As a Casual player, fitting along just what you said about enjoying the story and unlocking characters, I'm glad you voiced out for us. I'm not too personally upset about the content delay though. As a casual player, I don't have to worry about buying the game day 1 to make the race to learn the game and keep up with everyone else. Does kinda hurt Capcom's mission to turn casuals into competitive players tho. Random side note: has Max ever done a vid on Pocket Fighter? Especially Running Battle? I could never beat that thing and I always wanted to see to its end.
I'm a casual player myself and I love fighting my friends in games. I understand that the focus is more on competitive players and the rest of the game will follow suit soon enough. It's just that I wish they didn't make it look so closely to how other AAA companies have been filling the holes in their games with DLC.
This is a very important discussion. Especially for those of us who aren't able to buy a ton of games at launch. The major debate for me was do I want this game or Fire Emblem Fates? The barebones launch of this game made that decision easy. Even worse for me as a casual Street fighter player, I don't know if I'll ever get SFV now, or at least not until it's well below the $60 price tag. Because the longer I wait, the more frustrating online mode would get for me.
As a casual myself, I'd like to learn how to play the game but I don't have the knowledge or the required set of mental skills to learn from my losses or figure out how to apply what I've learned thus far. What I'd like to see out of Street Fighter V is an in-depth tutorial mode much like KI3's. For those who don't know, KI3's tutorial mode taught the player fundamentals first: cross-ups, zoning, footises, spacing, the different button types, the special moves, all that. Then it taught you how to play KI: combos, linkers, autodoubles, manuals, openers, enders, wall splats, everything. They give you the tools to succeed, but ultimately leave it up to you to figure out. That was my issue with every iteration of SFIV. They just tossed the player into a very vague character tutorial that started off extremely easy and soon took a difficulty spike. They expected people to sink or swim. I'd love to be up there on the EVO stage, duking it out with some of the greats but if I can't figure the game out then how can I? I feel like a lot of casuals feel that way. We've all seen the Daigo Parry. People want to do that, people want to do crazy awesome stuff but a lot of people don't have the patience to play training mode for three or four hours a day to learn in an offline environment. Not only that, but then they have to figure out to get in with what they've learned. Everyone has to start somewhere, but some of us need more than just figuring it out on our own. Kind of a tangent, but if Capcom could put in an in-depth tutorial teaching the fundamentals then teaching how to play SFV then I think a lot of the casuals will want to give the game more of a chance instead of shelfing it until the next one comes out.
What a great video. I love fighting games. I suck at them, and I'd consider myself a casual because I don't have the tenacity to reach a high level of play, but I genuinely do like them and I buy quite a lot of them. It's really frustrating when a series I really like gets axed or really neutered because of low sales. The recent resurgence of fighting games has been great but if we continue to get games like SFV that may not sell a lot due to lacking content for the average player, there's a genuine worry that more great fighting games could turn out like Darkstalkers or Soulcalibur and just shrink and vanish. I dunno what I'd do if Tekken stopped being made. Luckily Namco ALWAYS pumps Tekken with content so there's ALWAYS gonna be people who know they're buying a product with tons to do in it.
In response to what you said about 1-frame links, I agree that the noob complaint about them is a bit ridiculous, but I don't think it was a mistake to remove them. Because of plinking which no longer exists, 1-frame links were essentially 2-frames. So they basically just turned 2-frame links into 3-frame links. So it went from having a 1/30th of a second window to 1/20th of a second. In other words, there isn't that much of a difference between the systems and some combos are still extremely difficult to connect.
You said probably the most important thing right at the beginning and is exactly my point when people bitch about the lack of options: Capcom has been crystal clear about this for months now! Everybody who followed the news coverage about this game should've known that SFV at launch but be mainly an online fighting game and not much more.
Max, I've been a big fan for a really long time, and i was wondering if i could make a small request. I have been playing SFV a bunch since it came out, and, mind you, I'm decent, but not too fantastic. Something is driving me crazy though, and that is the stupid Survival Mode. I Mainly play Vega, and even though i have several games of street fighter and Vega experience, I absolutely cannot get past even round 30 on hard mode of survival (which requires 50 to beat). I really want to unlock all the colors and the title for Vega, but i just cant do it. I use every trick and combo I know, but the sheer fact that i have one health bar and that the computers occasionally decide to counter hit me on everything and block everything makes it nearly impossible for me. I was wondering if you could please do a video on Survival and maybe use Vega or if you could give me some advice. I would really appreciate it. Thanks.
Totally agree with you max, in my case ive always liked fighting games way back to the snes era, i had SF4 and Tekken 6 on the ps3 but i felt that at that time other games got so big that it stole the spotlight from those games and thus i shifted away from them and became a casual fighting game player, but after i started watching your channel i just fell in love with fighting games again and i really made the effort of getting good at them specially online, which was a new territory for me in fighting games much like when i started playing FPS online, i sucked at first then started getting good then sucked again and then i started to get better to the point that i can win five straight matches online i know it doesnt sounds like much but to me thats HUGE, the games that ive been playing for a while are MKX and SFV.
Thanks for this video Max. As someone who plays online but does enjoy arcade mode etc, casuals are very important. I would like to see more new Capcom fighting also. I don't know if this has any chance of ever happening, but I would love to see a new Darkstalkers game with modern day graphics and fighting systems :)
I agree completely with you. When I was a kid, I owned Street Fighter 2 on the SNES. I spent a lot of time playing that game by myself, as there obviously was no online play back then. I would always go to the arcades and play games like Marvel vs Capcom, and I would get good enough at them to beat Bison or Onslaught with every character. I could even win against other people in the arcade, but for me beating someone else at these games was the never the focus. I just like to play them and have fun!
I don't really care too much about this whole situation the only thing I really think that is wrong about it is the way that it is marketed on television. It doesn't say that its an incomplete version or that more will be coming later and it could be very misleading to a casual person who picks it up and is excited but then realizes they have to wait until the summer to do the things they want to do. That would be extremely disappointing for me as a consumer. As always awesome video Max!
I think the initial release sales are gonna be shit, there's gonna be some backlash for the lack of content, but the real main story mode comes out a month before the biggest fighting game tournament takes place. The most watched events are usually the Capcom games, mainly street fighter. With the hype from the tournament and the game being more complete or at least having some content compared to now, I think the game will end up having decent sales.
This was a great video and nice topic! As whole, while the game-world has progressed (technically, visually, status, ... ), it has also has regressed mainly because of the attitude of people. I have been gaming since the Master System II, in a time where you were considered a "nerd" for playing games. So funny how things are now and games are "cool" to everyone. Now people find it odd if you don't game. I've always liked gaming and played many different genres all the time. Because I just wanted to play... it's a game! I also liked fighting games and I have been there with the beginning of Mortal Kombat (fased out with the 3D ones). Liked the vibe, the story, the atmosphere,... . I was good with them with whatever character. Knew all the special moves. These days it is harder because you have so much at your disposal and you can play a fighting game the way you want to, so there is so much stuff. And luckily allow for different levels of play. The things that bother me is that other gamers think they can dictate how you should play a game and how much time you need to spend with it. I haven't been playing a lot anymore just because of the attitudes of others. I don't like playing online, because in a lot of games, whichever genre, you always have these "elitists" who think they can just trash talk you and say you shouldn't play that game, just because you play games on a casual level. Or fun level. I play adventure, racing, arcade, shooters, fighting, ... there are too many fun games to just spend time with a few. And I do spend my time with other things. I like designing, so I put time in that. I rather spend hours learning how to create something in Photoshop, Blender, ... than spend hours upon hours upon hours in a "training room" room just to learn and perfect one combo. Is it impressive to pull of a combo? It certainly is... but it is not worth my time. So if someone else wants to play just 1 or 2 genres/games and wants to play games on a competitive level, that is good for them. But they have no right to insult/dictate me (or any other gamer) just because I don't spend all of my time on 1 or 2 games. I'm a "gaming-veteran" who plays games in a casual way. I'm not gaming to be the best, I'm gaming for the fun of it. My fun, not yours! So I sometimes find it funny that I get remarks from people who haven't even played as much as me (basicly anyone under 25y I guess) and suddenly think they are more "gamer" than me, because they spend more time on a game than me and play it more competitivly.
I'm a casual player, who would like to be competitive, but sadly don't have the ability/patience. I just can never seem to get it down before just not wanting to play. I need to get more into fighters, but sadly very few friends play too so I kinda get burnt out. Love watching them though, especially thanks to you, Max. Also, azuritereaction holy shit. Haven't seen him in years. I should go look for his channel again.
I've been a tournament players since SFII. Mostly in the form of local tournaments and the local Gamestop. I even made it to Regional in the SFIV Gamestop Tournament in 09. However, some of the most fun I have ever had has been with casual fun against the arcade mode, etc and not having to worry about ranking or practicing a new character without necessarily going into training mode. So I hope they expand the casual game, I definately feel it missing with SFV.
Was hoping for another "Let's Talk" videos from you. Glad you have brought this topic up. As a new player, I love the game. Can't get enough of playing it. But even though I love the game, they should of released it it June. There is no excuse for all the cut content. They should have just gave the tournament players a released version of a beta to train with.
Any competitive player started as a casual...
+Level Nine Drow So by your logic your limiting the fighting genre to hardcore scene only.
+RoXo1987 yeah dude it's just a problem in the mind of the FGC fucktards elitists, that's why fightcade and almost all fighting games are dead compared to other games genres.
+Level Nine Drow ??????
+Level Nine Drow That's like saying not all basketball players become NBA professional players. It doesn't matter if a lot of casuals don't become pros, what matters is that every new game that comes out could represent the starting point of a lot of pros. When the first Street Fighter arcade machines were released everyone was a casual and that created the huge community that we know today.
Wise words RoXo. Casuals also help the economy of the publisher in order to update existing games or making new ones. What gets me sad is the poor 1rst impression this game gave ex Meta critic User score is really low as of right now and like Max said word of mouth is really important in this industry with out it games like the Dark Souls series wouldn't even be succesful.
+RoXo1987 Not everyone. I got in to Street Fighter after watching FGC events like Evo. The main reason I bought the game was to be competitive like the pros. I never became "pro" but I still try to play competitively and constantly improve. I mean look at StarCraft 2. Single player is fun but multiplayer is where it's really at...
I think the pro or pro-minded players of the fighting game are much too hot headed to realize that ALL of the community is important to their favorite franchise. You have explained this very well.
+AwpWilliams True
its because they are so wrapped up in their own little bubbles they cannot see the reality of the situation....if casuals didn't matter you wouldn't have a street fighter to play
+AwpWilliams I'm conflicted here. A game is for competition. And clearly Street Fighter is transcending what can be classified as just a game,
especially if such considerations need to be made, such as how a casual
fan can play. I like basketball, I can shoot hoops, but I know I'm not
Lebron James. If someone wants to try and play, that's fine. Whether
or not they become good at the game at its highest level shouldn't be a
coded into the game, except in the case of an easy mode.
I believe a "game" is designed to be "fun".
Fun can also be competition.
I believe it starts at fun. You have to enjoy something in order to be able dedicate competition mentality to it.
Neither one is bad or essentially better than the other. I believe they compliment one another.
Consider the following:
(I use a lot of analogies here so bear with me). Imagine a world where you could only sell a basketball to someone in the NBA or someone trying to get in the NBA, like a highschooler playing on his school team. What about that guy's little brother who wants his own basketball because he enjoys watching his big brother play and watching ESPN, and all he wants to do is dribble and shoot the ball in his backyard. He may or may not have the intention to get serious about it, but who cares? He has the right to dribble a ball.
Now imagine he can't get that ball because he's not playing to compete. He can't enjoy basketball. He has to be super serious about it to even try it. I don't know where basketball came from, but was it not invented as a fun activity before all the major competitions came about?
This is essentially what SFV has done. It's essentially only open to the super serious competitive player. What about the person who just wants to (as Max described) just stick in the game and play with a cool character or have something to do with a friend every now and then? Indeed, I ask, where is the fun? Competition can be fun, but right now the little kid (a Street Fighter casual or noob) can't relax and dribble the ball or have fun messing around with his friends using something as simple as a ball and a hoop.(single player and versus mode) because it's only accessible to highschoolers and NBA members (competitive players and actual pros).
The point is, there would not be competition without the fun game being developed. So... now Capcom essentially is saying "hey if you want to have fun with Street Fighter V you need to "get good".... Excuse me capcom?
My whole channel is dedicated to the opposition of this hot-headed mentality. The only difference is I deal with Tekken. The IMPRESSION I have of my community is everyone is so concerned with Top Tier discussions, how many frames this move is, what player is better in competition than the other guy, calling anyone playing not a Mishima or Kazama character a "scrub", how many times I can do this electric before the guy hits the ground, combos that do 80 points of damage or greater, what fightstick is best for wavedashing, the very CONCEPT of wavedashing, Eddy Gordo is cheap, dragon tail is cheap, you're not blocking enough, you're not sidestepping enough, JDCR, Justin Wong, EVO, Final Round, my clan can beat your clans ass.................
LORD. So serious. It's a game. Where is the FUN?
I'm the only guy showing people, with my content, Tekken is FUN. Enjoy it. (You can check my first Tekken video uploaded, the thumbnail has that exact title.
SFV needs to be fun.
All this other stuff is good too. But it's a GAME before it is anything else.
As I said in the beginning.
Game = Fun
+AwpWilliams agree with max and you, btw i like your tekken videos :D
Thank you, this was much needed to be said.
You don't need to be a "casual" to dislike the fact that the game has a lack of content.
There is another reason why casuals are important, any casual can become a hardcore player
@Xav
I know this comment's four years old, but as a casual I have considered playing competitively. But if I remember correctly Capcom dumbed down the controls for supers and stuff like parrying. which bugged me, but I get it.
I think what Angry Joe says to these elites sums it up.....'If you are happy with the game then SHUT UP...But for those who expected more they are allowed to voice their concerns'.....So to the elites and pros who complain about casuals...SHUT UP you have your game now hush hush
+Dante Vic
No he's right. You got what you wanted, so why be against it when other people want something broken fixed? It's fine for you, but it's broken for them. Without critique, there can't be change.
+bob dole Nope. Not when you're tanking review scores just because you have to wait a month.
+SuperArppis I'm happy with the game for the most part but there are people saying shit that isn't true and are calling shit out who are completely uneducated in the product. "They'll just come out for super turbo ultra edition." They said they are not doing that. "The story mode sucks" There a full one for free in June "I have to pay for the season pass to get the rest of the game?" no you don't in fact I'd be more opposed to the season pass than I am to the games current state. I'm not gonna deny its a bad deal right now but consumers need to seriously educate themselves on the product BEFORE they buy the game.
+Xxazteckingx Not "free", LATE. People have already paid for that content as it was meant to be in the game day 1.
The story mode was never gonna be there on day one or ever announced for day one. The day they released the trailer for it was said it would come out in june. This is what I'm talking about. You're saying something was promised to you when it never was.
I hate this shit, don't release a half finished game. If I have to wait for features that's suppose to be in the game, don't release it until it's there.
Capcom should have priced it 15-20 dollars. That way, pros can still get their practice in for tournaments, and casuals don't feel ripped off.
then don't buy the game so soon... it's simple
+TaurusOxford capcom would surely recieve a giant amount of flak if they made story mode a paid DLC, but this would've been a nice way out of the problem they have in hands now
Well Mr. Deadpool, don't be so salty. Its not that hard to at least wait for March. An example of a filthy casual. Go back and play Marvel
+Heatblaze123 The suits calling the shots don't see things this way - they don't play their products and have no idea what their customers are thinking (beyond fiscal reports).
This industry is run by out-of-touch assholes and conceited hipsters. Can't wait for a return to the New Mexican landfill. ;)
With Street Fighter V, Capcom had only one goal; get the casual video game player interested in Street Fighter. In order to accomplish this goal, they released a game months before it should have to get it out in time for Capcom Cup and EVO, which are professional video game tournaments. Also, because they wanted to capture that casual audience so badly, they decided to remove Arcade Mode, Character trials that teach people combos, put tutorials for the characters outside of the game on their official channel, and make it so that the only way a casual player can play with others who aren't in the room with them is go to Ranked Online Match and Casual Match, where they will be absolutely decimated and turned off from playing the game.
Also, in the interest of making SFV enjoyable to watch, Capcom has decided to put all of the colors behind Survival Mode, where you can spend upwards of thirty minutes trying for new colors only to get wrecked by the CPU who reads your inputs.
What were they thinking?
and survival mode is bad too. why would i pay points for a "power up" that takes away all of my health.
+super koopa 64 (IRBS) That's not why survival is bad. That's one of 10 power options and the rest are not like that at all. It isn't the best because of the A.I. and length.
They wanted to appeal to casual players in the sense that they simplified the core mechanics for those who are interested.
+kylerqaz22 I literally did sweeps for survival and went very far for many characters.
+BioDomeWithPaulyShor
Ono does not think, he blindly promotes failures into successes because people are gullible
MAX I'm so loving you more for saying this "real talk". I am now proud to say that I am one of those guys. I always thought that I had to be competitive because that's where the gaming community is going (or has already gone) because casual play with friends in your house is dead, or that's what I thought anyway. So there I would go online and try to beat the gods of SSF4AE or TTT2 and then get stressed over not getting any better but you made me feel so much better about it max. I love fighting games and not because of the competitive Era or the online onslaught but because I just do, even in movies I just love martial arts movies. Everything you said about picking a character and just admiring the graphics or to reach the end of tower or arcade mode to see a clip of your favorite character is so true. I really think they messed up this time. I mean Capcom has pulled some stuff in the past and we let it pass but this is ridiculous. Max you have inspired me to be myself. I will play so much more casual and won't feel like I have to play online. The 99% of crowd that are at Evo are most likely the same too. Thank you senpai
Max is speaking gold here! Have plenty of disposal revenue, not buying because as a casual, we are isolated. Who gives two shits about 100x combo. Max is right, we want to have fun. We have a real life to live, not master street fighter lol.
+TheChairman There are many different kinds of "fun" in the world dude. I'm not good at fighting games, but I want to be. And i'm pretty sure that some players get their "fun" out of doing that 100x combo. If your not hype for that kind of thing it's fine, but it damn sure doesn't make you better than the rest of us.
+David Davis I think his point was that there is no organic way to learn the mechanics of the game in it's current iteration. Nobody wants to spend 6 hours getting bodied online just to learn the same shit arcade or challenge mode would have taught them in 1.
No you just don't improve. Just like real life. Your work speed stays the same
+Bill Roger
You know, he has a "real life", one that's not fantasy. He's caught in a landslide with no escape from reality. Opens his eyes, looks up to the skies and sees that he's just a poor boy, though he wants no sympathy because he's easy come, easy go, with little high's and little lows. Any way the wind blows doesn't really matter to him.
To him.
+Tao Exactly, he's deluded himself with what's "real" and what isn't because the world told him so... yet, the same people who told us that lied in our faces. Cycle that for 1000+ years and you have what everyone lives in "reality". A cold reality where, most of us live check by check full of stress and need outlets to vent... all for the sake of supplying the Jewish Bankers with more money. Trying to somewhat have some fun? Well people like OP here will come up to you and tell you to live "real" life just to kill your damn vibe. This is the exact kind of bs that gets on my nerves. Lol
"literally nothing wrong with mkx" unless your a pc player...
mk x has terrible netcode and they charge so much for extra characters instead of them being free
The game itself nope a 10 but the netcode is garbage atm.
+Maximilian Dood Sup dude? You rock man.
You're right, but at least the console game was totally fine. Street Fighter V is barebones in console AND pc
I like the story mode I will give them that but as of right now killer instinct is where the bar is highest set for as arcade mode updates and netcode for fighting games
People REALLY need to stop defending Capcom.
Yes, they went into detail on how the launch was gonna work, but NOBODY said that we would not be getting such basic fighting game modes. Hell, even UMvC3 does better in that regard.
Last time I heard, I think Capcom didn't even consider an Arcade Mode for SF5 at all. Max, if you can get Ono, Rosas, and the rest of Capcom to watch this video and actually pay attention to all the negative feedback, that would be awesome.
Not to mention that it might as well be a F2P game that costs $60.
+Zenith683 "this is why you don't preorder or buy games day 1 (in this day and age)"
Not unless you're buying Japanese games (and/or Limited Editions for that matter), most of which typically have low print runs, some never even making it to store shelves in some areas.
+Tjoeb123 I'll just defend things when they actually do something right. What I like what Capcom did with SFV is they made it more basic. On top of that, the fight money mechanic that rewards people for playing the game is a good thing.
However, I feel SFV suffers the same problem I gave Splatoon where even though it was promised to have more content coming in the future, there was not enough content Day 1 to warrant its $60 price tag. In fact, I actually think it did worse than Splatoon considering Splatoon's online play was actually functional.
+Random Ron Those two are comparable but not at the same time. One was a new IP and Nintendo had no idea how it was going to be received. Street Fighter is an established franchise and Capcom knew what was needed to be in the game at launch from the get go (not to mention one would think Sony's money would have helped with that or at least have a better title screen). Ironically, I bought both games at launch and enjoyed both of them, but I got more enjoyment out of Splatoon on day 1 (not being one of those people that jumps online immediately might have helped with that) that SFV on day 1. I will say that I agreed with Yahtzee when he mentioned that a fully priced game has to stand on it's own with single player because the multiplayer has too many factors the game has no control over.
I can't believe that people are actually defending this ripoff of a company. It's just so surprising
I feel this all could have been avoided if they really just added a true arcade mode
+Viewtifulgamer or made the game like 40 bucks and call it a "tournament edition", or just call it early access.
A true arcade mode, working online, player vs CPU, more characters, additional PC controller support, Clipping issues sorted...that is an acceptable launch
+PokeFighter Jr you know what? Very good point and the probably wouldve gotten away with that👍🏻👌🏻
+bob dole the online is working fine for me , i just miss arcade mode and versus cpu
+bob dole More characters is not an issue for this game's launch. Skullgirls is a fantastic fighter and at the end of its life it still had less characters than this game does now.
The other points though I totally agree with, though online is working fine for me at the moment.
1 point you missed is that without casual fans filling those seats at tournaments there would be no tournaments. Prize pools would be a lot worse. It is the same as "casual" football fans, the hardcores try to become players but its the people who are fans that enable the sport to even exist. Without casuals there would be no pros. At least no pros making money.
I absolutely 100% agree with you Max. The one issue I have with some of the competitive players (hardcore fans of any genre in general) is the need to either bash or dismiss the casual fans of the series. The whole "get gud" mentality is one of the worst things to come out of the fighting community. I've been a huge fan of the series since SF2 back in the arcade and have played the series since the original SF. I'm no top tier player nor do I have the time anymore to really become a great player anymore I always welcome new comers to the series. I will always sit with them even if they have no prior knowledge of the series because new fans have to start somewhere. If they decided to actually get better and play more competitively then that great. If they only really play the offline content then guess what? That's great too. People should stop alienating anyone that doesn't have as much knowledge on the series or if they just want to play offline. Well done Max and well said.
It's simple.
Story mode is gonna be released in June, EVO is in July.
Evo participants can't wait till June to play SFV.
+SilverShion more simple would be release game now, don't charge $60, charge the rest later when more stuff comes out
+SilverShion
So you expect a majority demographic that buys this game that doesn't give a shit about tournaments to pay their $60 now for bare bone content/mediocre online and wait until the game is complete months from now? Genius Capcom that won't shoot them in foot at all in not just the opening week, but legs too.
+Newtype89 scovelle
there are several things wrong with adjusting the cost or having
different versions. for starters you would lose HALF of your revenue for
a making a full game because even if its not in the game right now,
the work and cost associated with it are still a very real thing.
everybody who bought it day 1 for 30$ isn't going to turn around a buy
it later for 60$. you could charge 30$ then do a 30$ update, to lose all
your fanbsase or you could do another full VERSION and then nobody
believes anything they say anymore since thats specifically what SF5 is
supposed to NEVER do.
the reason its 60$ no matter what is because thats the most basic it can
get and adjusting for a game thats going to become outdated in a few
weeks is pointless.
+Millicente what I think is that they should have released the game in March with the update content, and had a sort of extended beta period going on until then. That would satisfy both the competitive audience and the casual audience. The competitive side would have time to practice and get good, and the casual audience would have more content to play with.
+Millicente regardless, you will still pay $60 for the game. The argument is null and void.
Capcom made the same mistake as 343 did with Halo 5. Focus too much on competitive multiplayer instead of having a solid amount content available.
+Chuggles McMeow Yeah that's a good comparison and one that bothers me :( I loved the campaign, but other than that the multiplayer is either too competitive to play solo (Arena) or too wacky and out of control (Warzone). There's no social playlists for a middle ground, and no way to just chill in that game. The promise of esports fame is getting to the heads of game developers, and they're forgetting to make a good game first, and turn it into a competitive game after
+Chuggles McMeow yeah, you're right dude, it's not cool that now i can't play split-screen online with my friend :(, that was one of the best functions in Halo since Halo Combat Evolved, and the removed it in Halo 5 :'(, that's kinda sad T_T
+Chuggles McMeow Halo 5 actually *had* single player content, though. It wasn't the best but it was there. It isnt even *there* in SF5 so u can't compare the two. Halo was worth a full price buy, this - this is a skeletal game worth $20 at best.
I'm gonna wait it out... But it's not great right now it seems
No malice intended I'm just focusing on mkx right now
+TheEvaGuy If you don't plan on being competitive then yeah go ahead and wait. If not you'll be pretty behind when you do get the game.
+Cristian no competitive but decent, I really wanna play ken and Juri when she eventually comes out
+TheEvaGuy the fighting game part of the game is done and is amazing, the rest of the game is the problem
Yea, because what Mortal Kombat is doing is WAY better than what Capcom is doing. -_-
Who ever says MKX is dead is fucking kidding themselves. I can get on MKX and play a match and finish it before SFV can even match me with anyone.
Plus mkx xl is coming out
careful now might get several dozen pissed off sf fans leap down your throat
exactly.
and SFV will find you a match in the time it takes MKX online to read one of your inputs.
+heatguyg I don't think you can really compare these 2 games because they have a totally different Fighting System. MKX is a really good game with a superb Story Mode and lots of unlocking stuffs etc...but the Combat System just isn't doing it for me. SF has always been superior on that part in my opinion. Both Games are pretty entertaining on their own levels and all this compare bullshit is just bugging me man. I can have both games and like both games for different reasons. Maybe I am lucky but online works fine and quick for me.
Alot of negative assholes bashed Killer instinct for costing $30 less than what street fighter 5 with more content. I like Street Fighter 5 but the hate and ass kissing thats coming from the Playstation community is ridiculous. I mean how hypocritical can you be. Are these guys todlers?
+kentray Swagger thats not the ps community, thats the street fighter FAN BASE, of course it looks like ps4 owners are winning but SF is ps4 exclusive so the fan base is on ps4
I agree. I'm in no way a Street Fighter apologist (I don't think Capcom is approaching the launch in the best fashion, but I kinda understand why they went with this strategy), but the hate for this game is ridiculous. As always, more haters and negativity overshadow another fine Capcom fighting game.
+kentray Swagger At least pricing for KI at launch made sense for what they had at the time, not to mention the time release stuff as well.
while i do like SFV, Max is right! SFV, as of right now, is more meant for the competitive players, and is not worth it for casuals. I understand that they want to release it early due to Capcom Pro Tour, but i feel they should've delayed it till March since most of the content comes out in March in a free update. Casuals i think should wait till March, if not, June to purchase the game!
Besides, casuals are always important. That's why MKX is the perfect example of a game that both casuals and competitive players can enjoy!
capcom pro tour starts in march, unless i'm wrong?
Well said. A serious round of applause, no sarcasm. You understand the situation very well.
***** Second this comment.
They should've released an "early buy" edition (or early access digital version) that specifically outlines the modes available and its schedule for future patches, then we can know only idiots would be upset. That said, I have no idea why they couldn't program a vs cpu or arcade mode for the game, those should be available at launch.
+MrAgentIncognito They should've done blah. Didn't happen. So don't worry about it. If they charged any less than $60, not much profit would be made, and they already advertised the game is coming out on February.
I don't see why Capcom couldn't have thrown together an Arcade Mode. If it had one, this backlash would be significantly smaller. Big mistake, on their part.
I agree. A fighting game without an arcade mode makes me itch. And I'm the kind of guy that only plays online usually.
apparently ARCADE MODE might be released with the march update along with the trails/challenges an updated battle lounge to allow more players in and ALEX from sf3
I really hope so. For newbies getting trashed online is not motivating and they find no reason to play.
khalz
Let's freaking hope so.
bennymountain1
True, but look at what's happening now. They really messed up, and I'm sure they regret it. Obviously they had no idea, that people were going to be so mad about this. But to your average Joe, this seems like a no-brainer. I don't know what they were thinking.
Why release a half done game? We as gamers need to stop buying or giving money to unfinished games.
Man nobody care about single player. Fuck causal. Max say it himself. It's only important cause it's to make money. Money off stupid people who buy games and play one week and be done with it. Same with devil may cry. Shit game keep doing same missions over on higher difficulty. Fuck casual. Let's all fuck up gaming company's revenue and start all over.
Then Capcom should've released a downloadable arcade version with local multiplayer for free or 4.99 instead to prepare players. Not a beta released for 60$ to the public retailers if their focus were pros. Capcom went full mentally retarded. There is no defense for this.
+cubandictator71 The sf community asked for the game to be released quickly in order to allow it to be used in tournaments.
+KhoiBoa That's cool and all but then they shouldn't charge full price, or even an above average price for it. This game in it's currents state just isn't worth more than maybe $30~$35
KhoiBoa "Man nobody care about single player." Uh, since when? From what I know from Battlefront, and this game. A LOT of people care about the single player mode. In fact in fighting games. That is the first thing you focus on. To unlock characters, gain in-game currency, learn character's playstyle, combos, and moves, fight with the CPU in difficulties (which funny enough, people are having trouble with in Survival mode in SFV), get character stories, and endings. Nobody just buys a game to only go into online without learning the mechanic, and unlocking stuff.
Max, when you say or do things I don't agree with I'll make it known, but when you speak the truth ill absolutely give you your props. In this video you're absolutely speaking the truth. Those "hardcore" players that hate anyone who doesn't lurk SRK constantly are worse than casuals. Bottom line here. 1. It's not even debatable that SFV's launch was horrid content wise. 2. Casual dollars spend just as well as hardcore players. 3. Launches like this destroy games and the gaming industry
I just discovered this and I love it. No casual gamer has ever said "Oh I'm glad you can do linked combo strings in a 3 frame window now instead of a 1 frame window now. Day 1 buy!"
If you're smart and not a pro player....you can wait. You lose nothing.
yep, it will be cheaper and playable online with more content
joedatius I play Capcom for rushing this out for EVO
+meteor22 I don't take MK seriously and i still waiting for a complete cheaper package. And you know what, i'm good, i can wait a lot more :)
people aren't gonna wait and then buy the game. SFV has put itself in such a hole will this release people just aren't gonna buy it. The only thing that would actually help is a updated rerealse ( super, ultra) but then Capcom fucks itself over by lying to their fans when they already said they wouldn't do this.
+Trippersigs22 They aren't releasing a rerelease. What exactly did they lie about? lol
I was gonna buy Day 1 but once I saw what was in the base game, I decided to just wait until around June for most of the content. Fair enough right?
+Adloquium Dubious Of course man.
+Adloquium Dubious Oh look, a person with sense who looked at a game, saw they didn't like it, and didn't buy it.
A nice change compared to buying a game you know nothing about and being like "WHAT THE HELL? THIS WASN'T WHAT I EXPECTED!"
That's fair. I'm mainly waiting for Tekken 7 FR and KOF XIV, but when the price goes down on and put more content in SFV, I might buy it.
+Pyroniusburn IKR?? You have this thing called the Internet and you can LITERALLY look stuff up about the shit you're planning to spend *60 bucks* on in a minute! Seriously, people who're ignorant about this whole SFV thing and still bought the game AND afterwards complain about it deserve it.
I'm just gonna wait till the update and I even bet the game is fixed by then and obviously the missing content will be available by then. It'll probably be cheaper by then too... So... What's the problem again...?
Isn't that a win-win? :D
+Adloquium Dubious Glad i'm not the only one thinking the same lol 100% with you there.
Thank you for standing up for us scrubs who can't even use Zangeif's CA... seriously.. how do you not jump
+GerudoDragon74 it's not that hard, comparing to Chun-li moveset in 4.
Probably not, its more a testament to my worthlessness over the difficulty
Capcom: Hey newcomer, wanna try this game designed for newcomer? Buy it and let online pros beat the crap out of u and u will learn.
Well in their defense no real fighting game is gonna let newcomers beat pros once the buy the game. I mean what game can you think of that lets newcomers beat pros? There’s no shortcuts for practice
I really can't agree with you about the 1-frame links. They 100% made the correct decision to take them out.
I was a complete fighting game noob up until not very long ago. I can say without a doubt that the hardest part about playing them was knowing what I wanted my character to do and just not being able to do it. At first, I did struggle with consistent execution, but once I grinded that out, the big obstacle was timing. The only game in which this was an issue for me was Street Fighter IV. In all the other games I tried playing, including BlazBlue, Guilty Gear, and Injustice, there were some combos that required timing, but not such a strict level of it. Perhaps there are combos in those games with frame-perfect timing, but I am at least able to perform all the reasonably good combos I want to without any trouble. In SFIV, enough combos involve 1 frame links that I feel crippled because I can only do them once in a blue moon.
Your observation that 1-frame links increase longevity is misleading. Yes, combos took longer to discover, but not all combos made a significant enough difference in the metagame to increase the longevity of the game at all. Furthermore, even if they did, this is an artificial way to pad out the game's lifespan. Essentially, since not everything that was possible for a player to do was known, players were not playing at the highest level they could until much later. They weren't really playing SFIV, they were playing SFIV: Some Combos Unknown Edition. All the possible combos being easier to discover, even though they're discovered faster, leads to a healthier, higher-level metagame faster.
In soccer, the entire play space is clear from the beginning. Nobody is discovering new ways to score goals through the side of the net or anything like that. Soccer has lasted for a long-ass time.
+The Soul Not Sold So, would that make me wrong? Max claimed that the timing being more lenient wouldn't help casuals, but if I'm a casual and it helps me, then doesn't this solidify my argument?
+The Soul Not Sold i dont have massively hypersonic reactions dude. People in online only are: 1pro player(e-sport dude A) hardcore player(e-sport dude B)
+Jake Seary Eh, I support your argument for a different reason. In particular how much emphasis on the Home Market is placed on Online play in almost every game now. 1 frame links in an online setting is lame as hell. You can adjust to the timing, but its often a little different than local play depending on the net code. Just for practicality reasons alone I'm not fond of it.
+ndv diaz This is horseshit. Casual players are the people who buy Street Fighter to play online and with other people. It's the "hardcore gamers" that need single player in every game and come to these youtube videos to bitch because it's easier than just learning how to play. Real casuals don't concern themselves with playing by themselves or buy games on day one en masse.
The moral of the story is, if you like content, and dont have any specific reason to jump instantly.
Wait months if not a year for the game.
It will have all the features it suppose to have, and probably will be cheaper.
it should've had vs cpus.
+super koopa 64 (IRBS) that was hard to do apperntly.
so its ok, that just mean im can wait a year, so it have all the ultra hyper mega impresive and amazing content that it is suppose to have.
And it could even be on sale, so why get rip off now, if you can get a great deal later.
+SamuraiMotoko Thats wat I did with destiny, but now everyone i play with is butt hurt and ether stopped. their been their and done that attitude when ever i ask to play sucks and im being forced to do shit alone (that is designed for a fire team) or with randoms who are some times that angry day one buyer. the grass is almost greener man.....almost....if your okay with feeling lonely with 5 friends sitting next to you.
+SamuraiMotoko That's exactly what I'm doing. I'm waiting until June to get SF V.
Sure that helps you, but Capcom needs sales and if they don't, they will go bankrupt again.
I completely agree with this video. Capcom really shot themselves in the foot with so little single-player content in SF V, especially when MK X already raised the bar for fighting games.
***** I'm waiting until June to get SF V, once Capcom has released the Story Mode.
+DNAngel MKX raised the bar? I thought it died already
James Meikle Clearly not since NetherRealm are releasing a new wave of DLC characters and implementing brand new rollback netcode.
***** I never said or even implied that Capcom are forcing me to buy this game. I don't mind that Capcom and Sony will be getting my money when I buy the game. What I do care about, is giving them money only when I feel the product has enough content to justify the price.
That shot themselves in the foot by making SFV a PS4 and PC game only. if they are doing as bad as make it seem shouldn't they ecpamd it to Xbone and maybe even to Nintendo.
The game isn't finished. Bottom line. It's an early access beta for $60.
Factual. It's for Evo. They should have just called it a closed beta.
+Segata Jonshiro opened beta actually. nevertheless we are suckers for buying the shit at the end so its whatever
+Segata Jonshiro Its for Capcom Cup 2016, where players need to gather enough point to qualify. As a casual, i will bought it during steam sales.
+MotherRat it isn't glitchy, it doesn't look and run like shit
it's just bare bones in content
+MotherRat It has improved online which is where over 99% of SF time is spent anyways. Fuck arcade mode. I'd gladly throw away a near worthless mode for slightly improved online functionality, great new characters, and a new combat system. The single-player stuff is coming soon anyways.
Sooooo this was made to bring casuals into it but only offers stuff to pros.
@lunarSoul0
So I wasn't imagining things, because that makes no sense.
I will buy this game when they release story mode :) If i am correct it will be in june?
+Candy Cane That is correct I believe.
+Candy Cane Yes, June is what they said.
+Candy Cane Thats what I've been saying, hopefully this arcade mode deal is sorted out by then as well but at the minimum my filthy casual self will not spend anything until the story mode update comes in
+Candy Cane Its that simple. More people should think like you ... The solution to that problem, which is not really a problem at all, because capcom announced the lack of content way before launch, is just waiting to buy the game, till the content is avaible most of the people are waiting for.
Yes, it will be June.
What the hell happened to gaming? This shit is absolutely ridiculous somebody needs to shed some light on some of the shady shit that's been going on lately... Some of this shit that's happening in the gaming industry is on the verge of being downright illegal. We're getting less for even more!!! Wake the fuck up people.
Calm your tits. The game is getting tons of new characters and gameplay updates for free, and the full single player modes, including the full story will be released by July. The game just released early. It's the same as if they made you pre-order the game and just had this be a beta or early access period until all the features are released over the next few months. What they did isn't criminal, it's just bad business and is going to cause a backlash.
Segata Jonshiro ...
Segata Jonshiro Man, Shut yo damage controlling ass up. Save your bullshit excuses for someone who's gullible enough to buy into that fuckin bullshit. xD LOL
Segata Jonshiro I knew one of you idiots would say something stupid ass shit like that. What you said was not even a valid or reasonable point dude. xD LOL
Segata Jonshiro They had you agree to *Terms and Conditions* after you pressed start to go into the actual fuckin game dude. This shit was calculated... And y'all fell for it. xD LOL
There are WAY WAY more casuals (like me) out there. Its like Capcom said, well we need our cash quick so lets grab one chunk now and one chunk later when we actually finish the game. I am so glad I did not get SFV. I had it pre ordered but when I heard there was NO arcade mode.. NO two round vs CPU matches... No unlocking certain items until March - June... I knew then this was poison. Any pro out there was once a casual... IMO Capcom has really embarrassed themselves and I love SF. always have. but I might pass on this and just wait for Dark Souls 3. there is also MKXL with A REAL story mode, real online KOTH, real arcade mode, real survivor mode.... and wait.. DOUBLE the roster.
***** You are absolutly correct about these features! That is a positive thing about streetfighter. but without Features/modes... someone like me cannot enjoy a game that is basically only online. I am the opposite of an online competitor. I like to relax. unlock all the goodies, offline trophies, for example. i have had MKX since release.. i have most likely played online MAYBE 100 matches. and that was to unlock the costumes.
+outworlddragoon They didnt release it early because they needed cash. The real reason why they released it now, was because of upcoming big tournament events. But other than that, if they wouldnt have released it now then they would have released it later, when the rest of the content would be done. The same would occure if those people who complain now, even though they did all know that before launch, would just wait and buy it later when the other content will be avaible. People need to learn to be patient and determine their own personal release by waiting to buy it, because no matter what, you need to wait for the rest of content, cause its still in development. If capcom wouldnt have announced all of that, then i would understand all the complain, but the customer literally agreed on these circumstances on that contract if he is buying the game now. Only if they dont keep their promise, then there is a real reason to complain.
+outworlddragoon Just wait for Dark Souls 3 and fuck everything else.
Guilty gear revelator
Casuals are important, but that doesn't mean you should forget about the "hardcore" audience, which are the ones that put Street Fighter where it is today. There should be a limit to how much these developers dumb down their games, cause otherwise it just ends up being a mess. People should accept the fact that sometimes you have to practice to get good at an activity. That's what makes the experience more fun, going from this newcomer to a pretty decent player is so rewarding in fighting games, and it's a big part of the reason why FGC matches are so hype.
I don't think putting in a vs cpu mode or arcade mode is dumming the game down. I'm not very good at this game so I could care less about playing online so there's basically nothing for me in this game which is sad cause I really enjoyed usf4
Ryan Soares Oh I agree with that. I'm a competitive player but I refuse to pay for SFV at its current state. It lacks a lot of features that are standard for any fighting game today.
+Kempes SFA I'm new to street fighter in general so I'm not very familiar with the past titles but are you talking about the "removal" of one frame links and option selects and stuff like that? I really don't see how those things were good for the game to begin with, even at a competitive level.
+Kempes SFA "going from this newcomer to a pretty decent player is so rewarding in fighting games" yeah that's 100% true, but not everyone that plays the game are going to think that, they just want to call everyone to play a random 1x1 game to have some fun, they don't want to get good at it and don't really care about getting good at it, maybe after some time they might change their mind, but that's kind of rare.
Well as a person who enjoys both I want my singlplayer but my beef is 16 base roster character really nigga yeah dlc on the way but for me every fighter this gen should have more than 24 charecters mkx had 25 doa5 22 street fighter 4 the first version had more than 16 if I remeber right might be mixing up versions pro player or not all fighter should have a base roster of 24 with four skins and bio cause many pro players will say they don't play singlplayer whatever's ok bit this pro or casuals that do want their single player content why not realese street figter 5 in June better they couldn't of have all the dlc characters and modes and amazing net code cause rigt now it's not that good and have longer story mode and ai battles and make new dlc characters if they did that their base roster would of been 24 so verdict good gameplay it's balanced good art style also multiplayer and stage theme and charcater themok that's 5/10 no modes little roster no ai battles really?etc
As a semi hardcore fan of SFV i have to say im happy with it but my casual friends cancelled their preorder because of lack of content and will probably buy another game. They said they would pick it up until march or if not june. It makes me sad but I realize its a pain for casuals. But I was also disappointed with the lack of content also.
Max, this put a lot of things into perspective for me and hopefully a few others. I always thought fighting games in general were marketed at times for competitive gamers as opposed to casual gamers, but after watching this, your absolutely right. Without the casual gamers watching or wanting to play these type of games, there probably wouldn't be any new potential players at competitions like EVO or at local events. Think about it? It starts at a friend's house with a small tournament, which leads to playing more online matches, at local events, and someday even possibly EVO.
Did they fix Ken's hair clipping through his body yet?
+Dirk Diggy No
There's a lot of clipping in the game, I don't think they will patch it. But hey, who knows.
+Dirk Diggy Cant fix that with a physics engine in place without making the hair rigid or changing it. (Begone banana head)
+Heatblaze123 Between Rashid's Arab-hood thing clipping through his backpack and Chun-Li's "Boobs only Jiggle on Player 2's side", I can't help but these are just smaller symptoms of much larger issues plaguing this unfinished game.
+PokeFighter Jr hmm...
that sounds very ps1 sounding
Oh Max gets it, these games don't thrive on the pro players alone. Capcom didn't need to release the game yet. THey could have just opened the beta servers for the pro players to practice on. The steam store page made no mention that it's the "rushed out for the pros" version. Capcom earned it's review scorn this time around. 5 is doing a lot of things right, but the launch is not one of them.
Dismissal of casuals has already effected the fighting game genre... There's no new IP in fighting games. No new fighting games that change the mechanics totally. The elitist attitudes of the competitive scenes has already shrank the market to only the most hard core of games. I get that there's no need to reinvent the wheel but where's the passion that sparked SFII, MK, and the old SNK fighters? Where are the innovators that will make the next evolution of even the basic button layout of fighters? The next evolution of specials and supers, or even how to win in an fighting game? Look at all the franchises that are all but dead because there is not a big scene following them, Dead or Alive, Virtua Fighter, Soul Calibur, Samurai Shodown and many others. Some people like myself play to get just good enough to have fun with the game, not eveyone wants to be atop a worldwide leader board.
I have a troubled history with fighting games. Bought some a few years back on hype alone, played for a few hours then quit due to a combination of either no local scene, no friends, or terrible netcode. The one I probably spent the most time with was SF4 around Arcade/2012 edition. Sadly, no matter how much I played, I never felt myself improving. I even went to the newbie area of SRK asking for help and was pretty much told to come back when my save file had a few more hundred hours on it.
The day SF4 broke me I will never forget. It was a usual night with some online friends in a private lobby and the losses finally got to me. I went on a vocal tirade so hard that when I went to the bathroom a few minutes later the blood vessels in my eyes had burst. After that I pretty much gave up fighting games for my personal health, resided myself to never being able to be good at fighting games, and simply watch others as the scrub I am.
Now after 4-5 years I feel like I've had enough of a break from fighting games to come back to them, but I'm not that confident about it. I even tried the Rising Thunder alpha several months back and the same issues are still there. Even if you remove the execution requirement, people with years of experience and proper fundamentals will still crush people like me who are still trying to learn.
I guess my point with all this is I feel like I don't matter within the entirety of the FGC. My lack of confidence leads to a self repeating cycle of losing and getting mad and giving up instead of trying to get better. Where's the positive reinforcement to help out players in a situation similar to me? And I'm not talking about hand holding or being talked down to. I just don't want to feel like total garbage because I'm not amazing at a game I want to enjoy.
Survival Mode is annoying, there is no option that will allow you to continue after a bullshit death.
They need to add an option that will allow you to Select "Continue" by giving up half or maybe even all of the points earned from previous survival rounds.
I remember the days when you actually unlocked the extra content by playing the game's single player modes. I really miss that.
Spot on, Max! Great episode. The value of SFV fluctuates depending on what you want out of it. Right now, if I was a casual who just wanted to play through a story I'd be pissed. And for the past 20 years I have been that casual player. But SFV is the first fighting game I want to learn properly and 'get good'' at so between the online, training and survival modes I feel I have gotten value for money. And that's saying something because it cost me $120 here in Australia (including season pass)!!!!!!! (I dont even want to think about the total once I factor in an arcade stick)
+Marshall D. Teach I saw an interview with a game publisher a few years ago (cant remember name, sorry), but he said they charge what the market can bare. To translate, they'll charge whatever they can get away with. ps shipping doesnt factor into it - i purchased mine digitally. oh well, australia fucking rules for the most part so im not gonna bitch too much.
+Marshall D. Teach I appreciate the support mate :). If expensive video games is my biggest problem though Im doing ok. No point stressing about what I cant change. anyway, im in a super good mood right now because my fight stick came today.
+Marshall D. Teach Thanks brother! Will do :)
without noobs then there wouldn't be any competitive players which means nobody would be playing the game
Wow, it was nice to hear someone talking about the non-pro/not so serious side of fighting games.
Among friends and thinking back to my school days, we were all casual players. The draw for us and the reason we bough each new installment of Tekken (or any other fighter) was exactly as you mentioned: to play through arcade/story mode with each character to see their extro movie and maybe learn a few combos with our favorite characters. When that was done, we would consider the game 'cleared'. Other than that it was just some laid-back versus mode fun or fooling around with the bonus modes or blind-folded competitions. I was a semi-outcast for learning the 10-hit combos and trying to do King's rolling death cradle :)
Uh-oh, I mentioned Tekken in a Street Fighter video. NOOOooooooooo!
you are making a great point, as an ex competitive player, also as a game developer I think you are absolutely right.. another example are real sports itself, there are a lot of people that just buy shirts, balls, equipment and never uses it in any kind of competition, but they just like to have it or play with their friends.
the fact of having hard or easy to perform combos doesn't make a competitive game.. players that only relay on that are as casual as the players they attack
The title should be *_"why the mkx teenagers players should play street fighter too"_*
So I basically bought SFV for its online, but I completely agree with everything you said Max. it's really scary to think this decision to release the game at its current state will ultimately and possibly kill this game, despite how good it actually is. I am a little confused as to why you mentioned the 1frame to 3frame link change though. 1frame links in other fighting games not called sf4 were rare to begin with, and even if they still existed, they don't make combos that spectacular anyways.
+PokeFighter Jr yeah, that's the only part i disagree with in this vid. A lot of fighting game execution isn't that nuts, and SFIV had a lot of wacky option selections and plinking tech. Easier execution leaves more room for focus on big damage and footsies, imo
JusticeSoulTuna It also kinda contradicts his own point. SFV focuses on the true aspects of what makes players good, which are things are arent based around tech. Combos have never made someone good at a game. It just means you can do a lot of damage to a stationary target lol.
*****
I agree. But I figured this was just his personal perspective on execution, so it didn't bother me that much. His overall message resonates better.
JusticeSoulTuna I agree. it didn't take away from the main point. I just felt it didn't make sense to add it in this video.
I guess. I'm sure some people will focus more on the specifics of what he said, than what he was trying to convey. I used to do that, but i realized it's just opinion. I'm just glad I wasn't the only one to notice how casuals are put off by this game, weirdly enough because of the lack of content. i thought it'd be because they can get beaten easily, but i guess there's that too
I think I'll wait until the "super ultra hyper ultimate Saiyan God last round" edition is released. It is Capcom after all...
Thank you for being "my voice" about Street Fighter V. I really love this franchise, I'm super excited by what's coming for the game but right now, as a casual (and historical player since the SNES) i'm a bit frustrated by what's available for single player. I hope the guys @CAPCOM will give us something 'cause as you said, we "the casuals" matters for the future of this kind of game. Finally, you're right about one thing as well, even though we (the casuals) are not about the online or the competition(s), we are curious about what the great fighters like Daigo and the rest of the competitive community do withe the game. At the end we all love fighting games, Street Fighter and punching someone vitually… on or offline.
Thanks again… and thanks for the news.
From France.._.
I definitely agree with your analysis of street fighter V, I can understand both perspectives why people are fine with it because the competitive online and why people are flustered for a 60 dollar purchase. I personally am fine with them addressing the issues as time goes on but Not everyone unfortunately will follow capcom P.R to the point of researching their statements about not releasing all the content overtime. I mainly feel bad for the people who used their money allowance for this month on the game expecting a full product and then seeing its not in its completed state, meanwhile they also had another game in mind they wanted to purchase and pushed that purchase to the side. Awesome video! I can see the pros and cons in this, they probably should have announced this somewhere either Before a DLC purchase, or on the hardcopy itself as a "ARE YOU SURE" kinda thing. Keep up the amazing work bro!
Street fighter must hav Arcade mode, Versus Mode, Training Mode, Trial Mode and Online Mode... N 20+ charcters for Launch.
This game doesn't even comes close to Mortal Kombat X
You pretty much came here just to start shit, based on your two comments.
I love both games, but launch wise, yeah. But please don't turn this into a bitter vs thread. Street fighter will definitely pick up the pace with the free updates pretty soon.
+Shock Vox (Soldier K) Uhm no, Its called having an opinion. I bought SF5 and think it's a horrible game, like most people, who actually have an understanding on how games are made good. Stop fan boying and take some criticism. My opinion doesn't effect how you feel about the game.
+Shock Vox (Soldier K) And also, yes. Yes, Mortal Kombat X is a much better fighting game, and overall better game on general. That's not rocket science.
Nevermind. You're a dumb ass troll. Not even original, just like the rest of them.
Factor in SFV is an exclusive, this means that it needs every sale it can get to ensure the future of the series, some hardcore players are naive, nay stupid, if they think the series will just continue to grow just because of tournaments.
Hardcore needs casuals FAR more than casuals need the hardcore.
Playing SF2 on the SNES with friends is how I gained a love for fighting games, but it wasn't the competitive nature that bit me first, it was playing on a single controller passing it around for hours trying to clear arcade mode on different difficulties. Sharing stories of that experience got my GF interested and she was looking forward to hanging out and playing the arcade modes together on launch day.
Surprise surprise. I understand adding features in later, like a proper story mode, but arcade mode not being there is a massive disappointment.
Good stuff Max. Thank you for making this! Especially since you have some influence within the FGC scene. People need to hear this!
I was about to buy it, regardless of the negative reviews, since I do like going online and fighting; hell, I used to play sf4 online for over 11 hours a day back on 2010.
But then I read the game was purposely rushed for the tournament scene and the fgc, and at that point I decided to not even bother.
I am not going to support a company that releases garbage, because it's not only the lack of features, even the present features are not functioning correctly. And only to please a minority, who are in fact a bunch of assholes, no thank you.
Max is cool and I'm even subscribed, but others like gootecks and mike ross and the like, nah ah, purged from my recommended list immediately.
I might consider buying the game down the line, if it has a major discount like a summer sale or something, but no, Id rather just watch Max if I have a need for a fighting game fix.
You are also part of a minority, you know?
+HerosHelper WHAT?? The pros are the minority not the casuals. The fact that you even said blows my mind.
+Jestersmile's Stream Someone not buying the game and shaming Capcom because of the interest of a minority, is a minority on its own. I'm not buying this game because I'm not interested in it, I'm part of a minority as well because I don't have a specific complaint the game making me not want to buy it. So we are all part of some minority. Not just casuals or competitive players.
+Manolo AKA El Druk nobody cares that your feelings are hurts...
+ChidoriSnake It is hard to not think that the hardcore scene is filled with assholes. I have met people who saidnto my face that since I am a casual fighting game player my voice does not matter at all. Like who do that, oh because I haven't visited a tournament outside of the ones that we did at my school nothing I say matters. I hate this elitist attitude, people have a right to be mad that there is not arcade mode because not everyone has time to play for hours online
I really don't get the logic of the people who say Capcom should have waited. All the DLC is free, so why not release the game a little early. This way at least you have something now with more to come, verses having more later with less to come.
+JMarsella9 They are essentially using DLC to complete a game. Look at a game like smash bros wii u..... It launched with about 50 characters, tons of stages, collectibles, modes, and tons of other stuff. They released a big, complete game then expanded on it with DLC to make it more awesome. SFV is not complete, it's playing catch-up with dlc not expanding.
+Matthew Cangelosi Let's say they waited a month or two until they had more finished content. That game would be exactly the same regardless. You literally lose nothing from it coming out now. The only difference is you had a few extra months to play.
JMarsella9 A problem is that casuals will shy away from this game because of the lack of content. Many people just buy games and don't revisit them so SFV won't get as much praise as it could have if it had...say 24 characters, 20 stages, a few more modes, and a story at launch. This could mean less sales which could mean less fighting games from capcom and not as much DLC support as this game could have had.
+Zenith683 Don't use quotes, it is free. Splatoon did it and I was fine with that as well. Think of it instead then that you're preordering SFV and you get to play half the game early instead, cause that's basically what it is.
Matthew Cangelosi That's more of a problem on Capcom's end. It's not a negative for the consumer.
I'm just a little sad that Capcom messed up so badly with SFV. The game is fun as hell but, just as Max says, the casual fans are the ones that decide whether or not a game is a success. The fact that its mostly an online game at the moment is fine for people who love to play online and learn the game through real matches, but for everyone else who has to learn the game or prefers a more solo experience and may not be as willing to put time into the game see it as a rip off.
The game is definitely not completely finished, but that's mostly had timing on Capcoms part. If SFV had come out later, I'm sure the general public reaction would have been positive.
It would be amazing that, somehow, SFV does well, Capcom bring back Darkstalkers. It's nothing more than a wish right now, but one day we might be able to play a new Darkstalkers.
honestly the whole 3-frame-links thing is what turned me on right away for sf5; when im playing sf4 i have the feeling that you cant get any good damage except for when punishing extremely misplaced dps or whatever... i hate to have to learn hard combos with 1-frame links i really appreciate the way sf5 is doing this !!
i open up the video and im like, isnt that rukenetsu? good stuff man, love your SF EX vids
I just just want mvc4 :'(
To bad marvel is owned by Disney, they even pulled out Umvc3 from the vita store....
+Jimma Kenyi that and CVS3 :/
Naga itzu I know it's a sad world my friend.
Magguscaster that would be awesome to
+Jimma Kenyi Nintendo vs Capcom?
am I the only one who thinks this game looks crappy :/
You aren't the only one!
Yep it looks awesome to me it kinda reminds me of the middle 90's
+Alexander Gallardo It feels infinitely better to play than watch. It's weird. I can't stop though.
+kylerqaz22 those exact word were used to explain sfxtekken. Lol. Game looks fine to me.
It's mediocre. the characters in the background move at 30 FPS, the background textures are pretty ugly and the further back you can see the worse it gets. guilty gear Xrd is still the best looking fighting game to date next to skullgirls and king of fighters 13
These so called "hardcore gamers" sound pretentious.
Nah I don't think he meant it that way,he mean the people who put thousands of hours on fighting games specifically,and of he said pro players it would sound even MORE pretentious,so he just used a lesser pretentious one.
But trust me,he didn't mean it that way
Wow, this is a very well thought out and calm explanation about the current situation of SFV, from both sides of the spectrum. This was a joy to watch, good job Max.
I just really hope Capcom picks up the ball, or SFV is given a review in a more complete state. As it stands, it has huge potential to be a great complete game for multiple audiences, but they should've been a LOT more careful with this launch. Perhaps with clearer labels for the average consumer (who is not constantly informed) to know what they were getting with their inmediate purchase.
Perfect summation of the situation Max. Nailed it on the head with the insulting Survival mode - a mode where 1.5 hours of boring grinding and 49 fights gets you NOTHING if you lose the 50th - it will randomly string together health low near the end too, leaving you absolutely screwed.
TRIGGER WARNING!
This is my review:
I purchased Street Fighter V and enjoy playing Street Fighter V.
Get this man some airhorns
"They don't want to go online" Well, that's their fault for buying a game that's centered about competitive online, and expecting great single player experience.
And about content - goddammit, CS:GO doesn't have single player content at all. But it's selling like crazy. Everybody's playing it. Casuals as well. And you have to buy it too, it's not free like LoL (which is another online only, super-competitive game, but free).
The problem here aren't the games themselves. It's the genre. People just don't want to play fighting games. And about MK? Why did it sell so well? Because people want to, as you said, see the fatalities and/or X-Rays. The end. They don't want to actually play the game.
Are casuals important? Yes, because they're the (bigger) part of the market. But casuals aren't the ones who kept fighting games alive.
+AdiXeR3 Yeah, some angry amazon reviews seem to be people that bought Minecraft for the Story, CS Go for the Singe Player Campaign or Super Mario for it's Online Multiplayer :D People should get their information straight before buying something blind so they won't be disappointed. For myself, I got more than I wished for with SFV - totally happy :)
Found the two ignorant people in my be comments. Love it.
+AdiXeR3 if counter strike had co-op mode and single player mode , the population that it has would have been x4 more....
+AdiXeR3 Not everyone wants to pay Sony just to play online.
If they're the bigger part of the market then they DO keep fighting games alive. Money is what dictates support and additions, not RUclips combo videos.
Great vid, Max! I'm a casual player myself who enjoys 1P vs. CPU, an arcade and/or story mode, and trial modes like SFIV's. I do like playing online too, but can't jump in right away and expect to come out on top in a fight because I lack the necessary skill and understanding of some of SFV's mechanics and combos. And that's the problem: SFV's fighting feels fantastic and the game's very polished overall in terms of mechanics and presentation. It just lacks the modes to teach newcomers or casuals how to use all its different options and how to develop their skill sets. Because of it I have a very hard time recommending the gameto others or even playing it myself (like you mentioned: the difficulty spikes in survival are insane and, again, the game does nothing to prepare you for those).
Thats what I do, Im not a hardcore competitive player. Ive been playing Street Fighter since the original World Warriors, and I simply play to unlock everything if there things to unlock and play the AI to get the character endings. Thats about it, aside from couch VS on occasion. If there are things to unlock online, I will only play long enough to unlock them and then play "offline" as it were.
Yeah, I've noticed a shift in how fighting games are being more tailored to the more hardcore pro side of the community as far as 4 to 5 yrs ago. Because they are the most vocal when it comes to supporting the games in general. Even still the numbers of casual non pro hardcore players out number those that do travel to tournaments to compete offline. And Max nailed it on the head concerning how there is a large part of the FGC who don't really want to compete at a high level.
Just like the sport of Basketball.Anyone can buy and pick up a Basketball and just play a game of Basketball. You don't have to be athletically gifted( but it helps) or be able to dunk just to ball on a court.Now if your good enough you can join a youth or adult league.Play for your grade or high school.If you're really good you may get a scholarship to play college ball. If your a stud in college you may great drafted to play in the NBA or play pro over seas. I think ever since the infamous Sirlin Rant on "Playing to win" many hardcore players in the FGC has made it a community wide doctrine. Granted the standard of play in fighting games overall has been raised.Which is a good thing to a certain extent.
But not to the point you alienate the most dominate side of the FGC in terms of a games overall success. And that's the Fan/ casual players . All of our Sports became more than just a game when everyday people became fans. These fans supported the sport by supporting their team or favorite teams either by volunteering or spending money to see them play. If just the pro and hardcore community were buying the games these games wouldn't continue being produced. Just ask the Virtua Fighter on why they didn't get hard copy of VF5 to own and instead just got a digital copy. Its from lack of support and having a large number of people supporting the game. IF just the hardcore just supported the games,games would sell about 200.000 to 300,000 copies. But companies are looking to sell about a million units or more just to cover the cost of producing the game.
There is a side of the FGC that is very vocal and very selfish about their love of the game.Once that side gets over itself and realize that the game is for everyone then the FGC as a community will be better off.
Great video man. Totally agree with your views on casuals.
OMG sighting of me vs. Max @ 5:17 GGS there Max!
As a casual who is trying to transition to more competitive play I don`t see what the drawback is to more offline content(i.e. towers/arcade mode, story modes, etc..) since for one when I practice I like to go from a practice mode to fighting the cpu to better refine my skills and work out combos before putting them to the test online plus it`s a great way to feel out the game and it`s characters before going online, second it can be nice if you`re tired or just not feeling up to the challenge like after a rough day of work/school to flip on the console, set the difficult to easy/medium/whatever and just play the game, and last but not least it`s more content plain and simple it`s more of what you love why just have online matches when you can have online matches AND towers/arcades AND a good story mode to play through. And on top of all that by having these features that draw in casuals money that reflects in the games sales with the cost of making games today the competitive players alone could not support a game not unless you want to pay an absurd price
I appreciate Max for saying this, because he just described me. I am not a pro fighting game player, I'm not even an average player. I am a offline scrub. When Street Fighter 4 came out I played that game a lot with friends and offline arcade mode. Even though I may not be topping the ranks, I still to this day support the FGC and what it is. I recently watched most of the regional tournaments. I LOVE WATCHING Street Fighter 5 tournaments. I still get hyped as hell when someone can clutch a 2-0 situation to a 2-3. I follow a lot of pro players on twitter and on twitch and interact with the community. The one thing I can't do, is invest the money into Street Fighter 5 for what it is currently is. I just don't see the long term value for a person like me.
Blinktalent I agree . There are way more fans of sf and ppl who aren’t any good who still support the franchise.. casuals are important.. I’ve been playing since 1994 and still don’t have it down to a science haha
As a Casual player, fitting along just what you said about enjoying the story and unlocking characters, I'm glad you voiced out for us. I'm not too personally upset about the content delay though. As a casual player, I don't have to worry about buying the game day 1 to make the race to learn the game and keep up with everyone else. Does kinda hurt Capcom's mission to turn casuals into competitive players tho.
Random side note: has Max ever done a vid on Pocket Fighter? Especially Running Battle? I could never beat that thing and I always wanted to see to its end.
I'm a casual player myself and I love fighting my friends in games. I understand that the focus is more on competitive players and the rest of the game will follow suit soon enough. It's just that I wish they didn't make it look so closely to how other AAA companies have been filling the holes in their games with DLC.
This is a very important discussion. Especially for those of us who aren't able to buy a ton of games at launch. The major debate for me was do I want this game or Fire Emblem Fates? The barebones launch of this game made that decision easy.
Even worse for me as a casual Street fighter player, I don't know if I'll ever get SFV now, or at least not until it's well below the $60 price tag. Because the longer I wait, the more frustrating online mode would get for me.
As a casual myself, I'd like to learn how to play the game but I don't have the knowledge or the required set of mental skills to learn from my losses or figure out how to apply what I've learned thus far. What I'd like to see out of Street Fighter V is an in-depth tutorial mode much like KI3's.
For those who don't know, KI3's tutorial mode taught the player fundamentals first: cross-ups, zoning, footises, spacing, the different button types, the special moves, all that. Then it taught you how to play KI: combos, linkers, autodoubles, manuals, openers, enders, wall splats, everything. They give you the tools to succeed, but ultimately leave it up to you to figure out.
That was my issue with every iteration of SFIV. They just tossed the player into a very vague character tutorial that started off extremely easy and soon took a difficulty spike. They expected people to sink or swim. I'd love to be up there on the EVO stage, duking it out with some of the greats but if I can't figure the game out then how can I? I feel like a lot of casuals feel that way. We've all seen the Daigo Parry. People want to do that, people want to do crazy awesome stuff but a lot of people don't have the patience to play training mode for three or four hours a day to learn in an offline environment. Not only that, but then they have to figure out to get in with what they've learned. Everyone has to start somewhere, but some of us need more than just figuring it out on our own.
Kind of a tangent, but if Capcom could put in an in-depth tutorial teaching the fundamentals then teaching how to play SFV then I think a lot of the casuals will want to give the game more of a chance instead of shelfing it until the next one comes out.
What a great video.
I love fighting games. I suck at them, and I'd consider myself a casual because I don't have the tenacity to reach a high level of play, but I genuinely do like them and I buy quite a lot of them. It's really frustrating when a series I really like gets axed or really neutered because of low sales. The recent resurgence of fighting games has been great but if we continue to get games like SFV that may not sell a lot due to lacking content for the average player, there's a genuine worry that more great fighting games could turn out like Darkstalkers or Soulcalibur and just shrink and vanish.
I dunno what I'd do if Tekken stopped being made. Luckily Namco ALWAYS pumps Tekken with content so there's ALWAYS gonna be people who know they're buying a product with tons to do in it.
In response to what you said about 1-frame links, I agree that the noob complaint about them is a bit ridiculous, but I don't think it was a mistake to remove them. Because of plinking which no longer exists, 1-frame links were essentially 2-frames. So they basically just turned 2-frame links into 3-frame links. So it went from having a 1/30th of a second window to 1/20th of a second. In other words, there isn't that much of a difference between the systems and some combos are still extremely difficult to connect.
You said probably the most important thing right at the beginning and is exactly my point when people bitch about the lack of options: Capcom has been crystal clear about this for months now! Everybody who followed the news coverage about this game should've known that SFV at launch but be mainly an online fighting game and not much more.
Fave part: "One frame link this, and one frame link that" with Zangief and R.Mika posing in harmony.
Max, I've been a big fan for a really long time, and i was wondering if i could make a small request. I have been playing SFV a bunch since it came out, and, mind you, I'm decent, but not too fantastic. Something is driving me crazy though, and that is the stupid Survival Mode. I Mainly play Vega, and even though i have several games of street fighter and Vega experience, I absolutely cannot get past even round 30 on hard mode of survival (which requires 50 to beat). I really want to unlock all the colors and the title for Vega, but i just cant do it. I use every trick and combo I know, but the sheer fact that i have one health bar and that the computers occasionally decide to counter hit me on everything and block everything makes it nearly impossible for me. I was wondering if you could please do a video on Survival and maybe use Vega or if you could give me some advice. I would really appreciate it. Thanks.
Totally agree with you max, in my case ive always liked fighting games way back to the snes era, i had SF4 and Tekken 6 on the ps3 but i felt that at that time other games got so big that it stole the spotlight from those games and thus i shifted away from them and became a casual fighting game player, but after i started watching your channel i just fell in love with fighting games again and i really made the effort of getting good at them specially online, which was a new territory for me in fighting games much like when i started playing FPS online, i sucked at first then started getting good then sucked again and then i started to get better to the point that i can win five straight matches online i know it doesnt sounds like much but to me thats HUGE, the games that ive been playing for a while are MKX and SFV.
This stage with grass and thunderstorm in the background is amazing!
Thanks for this video Max. As someone who plays online but does enjoy arcade mode etc, casuals are very important.
I would like to see more new Capcom fighting also. I don't know if this has any chance of ever happening, but I would love to see a new Darkstalkers game with modern day graphics and fighting systems :)
I agree completely with you. When I was a kid, I owned Street Fighter 2 on the SNES. I spent a lot of time playing that game by myself, as there obviously was no online play back then. I would always go to the arcades and play games like Marvel vs Capcom, and I would get good enough at them to beat Bison or Onslaught with every character. I could even win against other people in the arcade, but for me beating someone else at these games was the never the focus. I just like to play them and have fun!
I don't really care too much about this whole situation the only thing I really think that is wrong about it is the way that it is marketed on television. It doesn't say that its an incomplete version or that more will be coming later and it could be very misleading to a casual person who picks it up and is excited but then realizes they have to wait until the summer to do the things they want to do. That would be extremely disappointing for me as a consumer. As always awesome video Max!
I think the initial release sales are gonna be shit, there's gonna be some backlash for the lack of content, but the real main story mode comes out a month before the biggest fighting game tournament takes place. The most watched events are usually the Capcom games, mainly street fighter. With the hype from the tournament and the game being more complete or at least having some content compared to now, I think the game will end up having decent sales.
This was a great video and nice topic!
As whole, while the game-world has progressed (technically, visually, status, ... ), it has also has regressed mainly because of the attitude of people. I have been gaming since the Master System II, in a time where you were considered a "nerd" for playing games. So funny how things are now and games are "cool" to everyone. Now people find it odd if you don't game.
I've always liked gaming and played many different genres all the time. Because I just wanted to play... it's a game! I also liked fighting games and I have been there with the beginning of Mortal Kombat (fased out with the 3D ones). Liked the vibe, the story, the atmosphere,... . I was good with them with whatever character. Knew all the special moves. These days it is harder because you have so much at your disposal and you can play a fighting game the way you want to, so there is so much stuff. And luckily allow for different levels of play.
The things that bother me is that other gamers think they can dictate how you should play a game and how much time you need to spend with it. I haven't been playing a lot anymore just because of the attitudes of others. I don't like playing online, because in a lot of games, whichever genre, you always have these "elitists" who think they can just trash talk you and say you shouldn't play that game, just because you play games on a casual level. Or fun level.
I play adventure, racing, arcade, shooters, fighting, ... there are too many fun games to just spend time with a few. And I do spend my time with other things. I like designing, so I put time in that. I rather spend hours learning how to create something in Photoshop, Blender, ... than spend hours upon hours upon hours in a "training room" room just to learn and perfect one combo. Is it impressive to pull of a combo? It certainly is... but it is not worth my time.
So if someone else wants to play just 1 or 2 genres/games and wants to play games on a competitive level, that is good for them. But they have no right to insult/dictate me (or any other gamer) just because I don't spend all of my time on 1 or 2 games.
I'm a "gaming-veteran" who plays games in a casual way. I'm not gaming to be the best, I'm gaming for the fun of it. My fun, not yours! So I sometimes find it funny that I get remarks from people who haven't even played as much as me (basicly anyone under 25y I guess) and suddenly think they are more "gamer" than me, because they spend more time on a game than me and play it more competitivly.
Nice Video. You are making the community better with this kinda ''real talk''. Thank you Max!
I'm a casual player, who would like to be competitive, but sadly don't have the ability/patience. I just can never seem to get it down before just not wanting to play. I need to get more into fighters, but sadly very few friends play too so I kinda get burnt out. Love watching them though, especially thanks to you, Max. Also, azuritereaction holy shit. Haven't seen him in years. I should go look for his channel again.
I've been a tournament players since SFII. Mostly in the form of local tournaments and the local Gamestop. I even made it to Regional in the SFIV Gamestop Tournament in 09. However, some of the most fun I have ever had has been with casual fun against the arcade mode, etc and not having to worry about ranking or practicing a new character without necessarily going into training mode. So I hope they expand the casual game, I definately feel it missing with SFV.
Huh... As a casual player, I really like this. Thanks for supporting our community Max. ^.^
Was hoping for another "Let's Talk" videos from you. Glad you have brought this topic up. As a new player, I love the game. Can't get enough of playing it. But even though I love the game, they should of released it it June. There is no excuse for all the cut content. They should have just gave the tournament players a released version of a beta to train with.