The 1970 Brian DePalma film "Hi Mom!" (with Robert DiNero) has a scene where a Bell&Howell salesman demonstrates the system to Lara Parker (Angelique from Dark Shadows), who then interviews a few people with it in New York City.
I shot and edited a full hour drama in 1970 while in high school using that early Filmosound 8 system! And yes, it was a really, really, big pain to shoot but especially crazy when editing! Lots of counting sprockets and pulses on the tape with a magnetic tape viewer. It did keep lip synced for me so there could be issues with the old equipment having issues (like me now!). If everything was cleaned and lubed it may help. Drag on those old machines may be causing problems. But....I recommend putting it on the shelf and enjoy looking at it as a piece of home movie film history and save pulling all your hair out trying to get it to work!
Here are some fun facts! 1) Did I say it was released in '68? Okay I meant to say '69, my mistake B) Bell & Howell also made FilmoSound branded projectors earlier for 16mm which are unrelated to this. This is all FilmoSound 8 stuff 3) Not to be confused with Bell & Howell FilmoSONIC cameras IV) Regardless of my final sync result, the cameras are still chunky and LOUD
I am pursuing a full length movie Super 8 project. I've been testing different ways of syncing the sound by going over the footage from a short film I tried in 2005 that was never developed until 2021. I still have the old sound files--lousy with camera sound--And I've been syncing the two of them in Premiere Pro by listening and eyeballing it. It takes approximately nine edits per 3 minute roll. I just want you to know that you have rekindled my hope for being able to get this done with your tips on using the Bell & Howell system. Not that I plan on using the B&H system, but some of the ways that it works that you've demonstrated have given me ideas that should help me shortcut the process. So thanks! If I get to the point of filming and create an end credit sequence I'll make sure and give you a shout out.
Great job with finally getting that good of a sync! I’ve been trying for a while now to get Super 8 to sync well with sound for a movie project I’ve been working on, but unfortunately I just ran out of realistic options. Beaulieu actually did make a couple Super 8 cameras that natively had crystal sync motors in them, but they’re almost impossible to find and expensive when they do show up. That and the difficulty in blimping a Super 8 camera anyways (as well as limited shot length) kinda made me accept the inevitable and invest in 16mm. I got a CP-16, which was about US$1,400, and the film is obviously more expensive, but it’s given me great results so far! I’ve had to rework my plans to be a hybrid Super 8-16mm film instead of a purely Super 8 one, but it’s probably for the better in retrospect. Anyways, great video! And have a great new year! Hopefully 2021 will have some great things coming, like the vaccine and maybe even a new Super 8 camera (I still haven’t completely given up hope...)
I used to use the Super 8 Sound system. It was also sync pulse system, but it recorded sound on super 8 magnetic film strip. They had a synch block and a flat bed you could rent to edit. I used it to film interviews at the Ceaser Chavez funeral. I loved it. I eventually sold it back to Phil, the founder of Pro 8, and got into 16mm.
Thanks for posting, Noah. You answered one of my questions, which is why you don't see more old double system films with their respective tapes showing up at transfer houses and labs. They didn't work well, not many of them sold and what few films that were made with these systems probably frustrated the few people who bought them and so not many films exist with the sound track intact. Maybe you should try an experiment with the Canon 814 AZ, which was manufactured for Bell and Howell Filmosound, so at one point somebody didn't think it was such a bad system. I remember wanting one of these systems before Kodak came out with Ektasound when I saw a camera, projector and cassette recorder given away on a TV game show with a trip. Here's a suggestion regarding sync in today's world. Any camera that had a 1/F switch for syncing a flash for animation was a potential sync sound camera. If you could record those pulses onto an unused channel on any audio recorder, say, a Tascam or Zoom, you would have your sync reference. Great job on finding those Filmosound ads, you should post them online. Looking at those ads, you would never know how badly the system sucked.
I'm dating myself to say when I was college, in our Radio-TV-Film classes we used 16mm film cameras with crystal-sync audio tape decks to shoot projects, and they actually worked quite well. I have to smile when I hear kids today being so amazed at how we did things in the old days -- that actually worked! 😉 P.S. I assume the crackly tape audio at the beginning of this video was a "joke" about vintage analog technology? Because if your tape deck really sounds like that, that's too bad. I can get audio out of my Marantz portable cassette deck that's way cleaner.
When i got back into Super 8 in the early 1990's I acquired a Canon 1014e camera and an Elmo GS1200 with a pulse sync module. I did a number of sync sound projects which involved using a separate tape recorder to lay the audio with the pulse sync track down and when played back the pulse sync track feed into the projector kept it all synced. It worked very well.
Very cool! I've done some research about the Elmo stuff and it looks they had some much better quality device in comparison to the FilmoSound which is too basic and very early. Also being able to use the 1014 is far more appealing than using these cheaper Bell & Howell's for the system. Certain models of the Canon 814 had FilmoSound hookups, but that's a high end as it got and they're not easy to find.
Very cool, thanks for this! My dad had one of these FilmoSound systems, and I'm about to try playing his old films, once I find the cassettes. Also, this video mentions stretching the audio digitally for syncing. Just wanted to point out that this can work very well if you break your audio (or video) into small sections, and then stretch or squeeze them one section at a time. Using this approach, I've been able to sync live band videos (played at fluctuating tempos) to studio music tracks (recorded to a click track). It can be tedious, but you just have manually line up your audio and video cues throughout the course of the movie, one section at a time.
I just did an experiment recently I mounted my Gopro to the top of my Canon 1014xls that way I could hear the Canon start and stop. In this case the Canon was running at 18fps. In editing I marked the Gopro footage where I could hear the camera start and stop and if necessary slowed or sped up the Cannon footage as the Gopro is running at a set speed. The longest shot I did was 30 second and it never drifted more than 2 frames. The sound of the Canon was very loud on in the soundtrack so you may want to use 2 mics on a audio splitter (or Y cable) the left channel for the camera sound and the right for recording the audio clean.
Back in those good old days you really had to be an enthusiast and work very hard to get live sound lip-sync onto Super 8 film, and that’s just the way it was. I am old enough to remember those old sync sound systems when they came out. But you are right the cameras never looked much, and besides I had a perfectly good Super 8 camera. In the 1980’s I found one of those film-o-sound cassette recorders in a junk shop that I bought for a couple of quid. My Super 8 camera had a sync/flash socket outlet that I was able to plug into the film-o-sound cassette recorder. It could record a bleep for every frame that passed through the camera gate on a separate track on the cassette every time the camera trigger was pressed. Then I recorded the cassette audio onto ¼” perforated audio tape that had 18 perforations per one second of tape speed (3 3/4" inches per second) on a high end reel to reel tape machine. As the bleep played back it actuated an LED that flashed each time a frame had passed through the camera gate. The LED was mounted behind the perforations of the ¼” mag tape. So as you did a transfer to 1/4" mag tape you had a strobe effect looking through the perforations as they ran past the flashing LED. A friend came up with a simple electronic controller to allow you to just tweak the playback speed of the cassette player if the strobe began to shift. It never introduced any wow or flutter during this process. In theory you had a length of tape that matched the length of each film clip. Once you had done any editing of both film and audio. The edited film was sent off to have a magnetic sound stripe added. Once returned you threaded the film into your sound projector to a que mark. You laced your ¼” inch tape from the reel to reel tape deck through a device called a “SYNCRODEK” and connect a coupling shaft to a drive output from the projector. The syncrodek is basically an electro mechanical differential gear box that you could buy at the time, that compares the speed of both reel to reel tape deck and the projector. Press play on the tape deck. The syncrodek had a dial pointer that when it comes round to the correct point press record on the projector. And with luck you will have a lip-sync transfer onto film. Job done! Remember as I said, you had to work hard in those days to get live lip-sync onto Super 8 film. Apologies for the history lesson.
I bought the bell & howlell filmo sound outfit in 1971 for family filming ect I've still got the projector and tape recorder in the attic haven't look at it for years.p.s we can do our videos with compact mobile phones today 😅
Fantastic work collecting all the gear to make this video. Despite the mixed results it is very cool to see you follow it all the way to the end and get some footage regardless. Happy New Year!
I used the Optasound system between 1975 and 1980 and it did an excellent job for me. using my GAF ST/ 1002 super 8 camera.(no mod needed) with the Optasound cassette recorder. and Eumig sound projector. (moded by optasound) I would have the film sound striped and then record the audio onto the film.
Previously, when traveling without a Super8 sound camera, it was problematic to record synchronous sound, and it was not by chance that many companies produced sound cameras.
This is freaking amazing!! I have a couple of the recorders, but not the camera nor projector. It is really cool to see the whole set and demonstrations!! I love how it records the sync pulses.
This sort of sync method, and others was used extensively in pro and semi pro film shooting for decades. Remember the system you demonstrate it only synced when played through the filmosound projector and with the cassette deck connected as per the instructions. Done right it would have stayed in frame accurate lip sync for the entire take. Remember that B & H would probably have had no idea if or when Kodak would introduce their sound on film system. It's easy to be wise in retrospect.
I love the unabashed jankiness! Even at its best, the Filmosound leaves a string of light on the film overexposing a few frames. Plus I'm a Norm Macdonald fun! Overall great video!
We were able to play the first few films back with them synced up. But eventually we didn’t know about the sync track and wound up recording other audio on the other side of the tape, erasing the sync track. From then on, those films could not be played with sync sound with the projector, and my dad thought the system was broken, so he lost interest filming with sync sound. (1969-1972) Our films wound up slowing down to anywhere between 16 to 17 fps. I’m able to use Final Cut Pro 7 (the obsolete version) to sync up the digitized film with the audio.
Enjoy your channel and content, I love the look and aesthetic of 8mm, unfortunately cost of film and development and scans makes it a very expensive endeavor. Happy 2021, looking forward to 2021 content!
Nicely done.👍👍I would call the Filmosound system a triple sound system because without all three of the B&H components you will not get (sortof) sync sound, whereas the film with magnetic recording directly on the film will be in sync regardless of the brand of 8mm magnetic sound projector you use. I would guess that the folks that bought the complete Filmosound system used it once and then gave up on the sound and cassette part. The Kodak sound Super 8 film was a great idea, too bad they no longer make it. The new Kodak 8mm film camera that records audio digitally in sync with the film is a cool idea but the price is crazy. I guess crazy, rich hollywood folks can play with it. Imagine Taylor's next concert film shot on Super 8.
I just got a Filmosound 433 recently at Goodwill for $8 USD. My first reel will be shot on Vision3 500T, which came a couple days ago. I've already shot some test footage around the house and shot some outdoor footage in the snow today. Yes, I did use the internal 85 filter correctly. It came with the action grip, but the shutter button was broken. It has a weird shutter button on top of the camera, though. If you depress it fully, you will start filming at 36fps. Depress it too little and it will not fully engage (and/or possibly film at a slower frame rate, from what I can hear). So I've been trying to find the sweet spot without needing to use the shutter lock. I have half a reel left to film and can't wait to get inspired to shoot what's left of the precious 50ft reel. However, I'm most likely not going to acquire the cassette recorder and its accessories at a decent price (when I actually have money is another matter). Love your channel, Noah!!
Thought provoking content, as always. And I’m glad you are moving toward your sync sound 8mm goal. I’m not sure why but sometimes on film sets they would do a “tail slate” where the clapboard was held into frame upside down and clapped again before “cut” was called. For shorter takes that might be enough
Tail slates were used mainly in documentary filming when you couldn't get a head slate, usually because you started filming when you saw some action, without slating. The slate was held upside down just to make it clear, on viewing, that it was a tail slate and not the beginning of the next shot.
I'm working on some Super 8 sound stuff including using the sound cartridges plus TASCAM, we'll see how it turns out once COVID is out of the way. Great video and dedication!
1: How about syncronising the audio and film by having a clapperboard in both ends of the shot. Then you can measure the time on the film and on the audio and adjust so it fits in both ends and thereby over the entire stretch. 2: Bauer T1S could synchronise an ordinary reel tape with super 8 in 1965. It had a build in syncromat but it is quite rare today. Projectors with syncromat for standard 8 are much more common. 3: That is not a tape deck - it is a tape recorder. A tape deck is a tape recorder without amplifier and speaker meant for connecting to a stereo system.
Regarding #1, the Filmosound system does that automatically for you without a clapboard. When you start shooting film, the camera fogs the film edge as a signal for the projector to start the record wherein the sync pulses start to provide speed information. And #2, yes! those systems were quite expensive and rare. The Bell & Howell system was targeted for the mass consumer market and attempted to be easy to use and somewhat affordable (still expensive when new). In the present, at least parts of this system is easy to find unlike the Bauer. I managed to cobble a working system together several years ago and it actually works pretty well- but again, the cameras are no Bauer but then again it was easier to find and way cheaper.
Haha that was great and an oddly measured response to the usual mentions of the Ko...that certain camera :) Food for thought...if the FilmoSound just records the clicks of the shutter, I wonder if you could just use a hand-held Tascam or similar digital camera and use a small mic that you can just tape to the camera to record the shutter and then use the other channel for audio? Or, to keep it fully analog, do the same thing but on a cassette (_except_ and maybe this might be part of the issue, most cassette players themselves are not sync'd and can drift as well). A shame it didn't work as well but it was indeed a very clever idea and thanks so much for sharing this! I had no idea this even existed until now and it certainly offers up some potential clever ways to try to get 8mm sound sync.
Unless you shot the entire film cartridge in one take, it's not clear to me how B&H expected each take to sync up. But for digital use in this century, it seems the camera is the only part of the system you'd need - you should be able to record the sound and "sync pulse" on any stereo recorder - cassette or otherwise!
Would be interesting to see how the Eumig system worked. My 128XL has a sync out port for their recorder system, maybe by the late 1970s the technology had improved?! ;-)
Call it Filmosound-8 - the correct system name. The best super-8 camera made was the Canon AutoZoom 814 (not electronic), marketed in the US modified with the special double plug connector to the cassette recorder cable
What type of film is this? I just bought bought the exact same camera. Also is there color film made for this camera? Can you use the set up without the projector if you're going to digitally sync video and sound?
This is Tri-X Super 8 reversal film. This camera takes Super 8 film cartridges which are made by Kodak in both black and white and color. The video details my experience syncing it up digitally with the tape recorder accessory, but you can do it without that. It will take quite a bit of editing and adjusting the audio to match the camera, it won't just sync up right away because the motor of the camera runs at a variable speed.
Hi I just came across your channel today while looking for a way to get my new Polaroid 800 land camera to work with film that I can get ahold of any way I can do so?
I know where this would work, narrating a scene. If the sync isn't 100%, who cares. But shooting synced sound of a human speaking has always been a struggle up until the combination of digital video and sound. These systems were used, very successfully I might add, by documentary film makers, railway enthusiasts, and scientists in the field. It worked, but it had its limits. Much of the footage captured was converted to VHS format in the 80's and the original footage is either destroyed or stashed in a library somewhere forgotten about.
Notice how much more natural and human this guy looks on even poorly exposed film. Compare how sharp and harsh the high resolution ccd renders his visage.
I wonder if anyone has explored retrofitting a super-8 camera with a more modern motor assembly. Making a motor capable of running at "crystal sync" speed with modern technology doesn't actually sound like that difficult of a problem. It just requires components that weren't considered "affordable consumer technology" back when these cameras were originally made.
This is why Kodak needs to give you a demo unit of that vaporware movie camera. How do THEY address the sync issue? Is there a way to use leaked sound of the camera (shutter/motor noise) as a 'raw' version of those deliberately recorded filmosound sync pulses?
The new camera simply uses a crystal sync motor which accurately locks in the selected frame rate for syncing audio with afterwards. Old Super 8 cameras have variable speed motors which is why sync drifts. Crystal sync motors for film cameras have been around for decades, but just usually not found in Super 8 cameras.
Well, just throwing this out there but you used the audio of the camera as a reference to get a digital sync? Why not use a stereo recording where one channel records the camera sound and the other channel records the dialogue? You will get a mono recording, but one can just use more than one sound source.
Great video!!! Would you consider sharing the software that you used to manage the frame rates for the sound? I really appreciate the information. Be safe
Heads up on Kodak: They didn't invent that Digital Super 8 camera. They merely bought it out from a European company and slapped their name on it. I cannot stand it when these huge established corporations buy out other smaller companies and individuals products and patents _[as if they did all the R&D on it]_ lest they actually innovate on their own. They've been sitting on this product for about *5 years!* It's completed! What could they possibly be doing this whole time if the product has already been successfully developed and market tested? If there's no intent to sell, they need to sell the patents to another company. Kodak's bread and butter is selling film anyway. Perhaps Canon, Braun or maybe even Bell and Howell can get in the next generation of the Super 8 game.
So with that exposed edge, I wonder if it uses a light bulb and photocell to manage the film speed. If that bulb went out, it would fail. You might see if there is a bulb out.
I have this system! Actually, the light bulb and photo cell doesn't maintain film speed but it is the signal from the projector to get the tape recorder to start running. Also it doesn't use a light bulb in the projector (a small light bulb is in the camera to fog the edge of the film to provide the clear marker for the projector to recognize), in the projector it uses light from the projector bulb to trigger a photocell. To maintain film speed, the sync pulse on the tape communicates with the projector to speed it up or slow it down. Most likely, the electronics in the projector has failed (ie. old capacitors etc).
Regular 8mm cameras run at 16fps and you shoot the roll through the camera twice! 33ft would be roughly 2 minutes and 45 seconds on each side, so about 5 minutes all together
I actually talked to a few people about essentially the same system (pilotone on my Eclair NPR). There are some audio software programs out there that could conceivably take a reference tone/frequency and use it to temporally transform an audio file dynamically. None of them would exactly do it “out of the box,” but it is definitely something that a competent programmer could create. Here’s the best lead I had, he said a competent MAX programmer could re-work the math to take my 60hz signal and sync off that: www.zachpoff.com/software/film-o-sync/ I ended up dropping my inquiries because I found a crystal motor for the Eclair, rendering that need moot. I’d highly suggest a decent crystal 16mm camera for sound. I’ve found 16mm to be only marginally more expensive vs Super-8 anyway.
Sync sound with a projector is HARD to pull off, even if you have digital components in the mix. There's a program called filmosync (www.zachpoff.com/software/film-o-sync/ - mac version and drive.google.com/file/d/1ztOK0J-8UyRYxqwowNFlQ8aofvYCEfWt/view?usp=sharing - windows version) that you can use to sync an audio file with projector playback in real time. If you edit footage digitally and sync it with an audio file via lip sync or pulses, you can transfer those edits to your original film and play it back nearly perfectly. I barely got it to work, though I was using a clockwork camera and I edited on film - it was a lot of trial and error to find the right speed. I did get it to more or less hold sync for like 10+ minutes though.
I actually just shot a short film on Super 8 with sound and actually had a very good experience. I went in, based on your previous videos, fully expecting to have to sync every take sentence to sentence to keep it in sync aaannnddd much to my surprise I didn't have to! I shot without a slate (to save film) because I was only going to do one or two takes it wasn't going to be a big challenge to figure out what sound take went with what film take. We recorded a couple of sound only takes as a backup before we rolled film, but so far I haven't had to use any of them (though I haven't started the sound edit yet). In a total of 7 rolls of film, there were only two takes in the entire film where I had to add a couple of splices in the sound to keep it up to speed with the film. For both takes it was over 30-45 seconds before any noticeable sync issues arose. Which I found very surprising based on your test video, which made me think... I'm no electrician or anything but my camera (a Sankyo MF-606) takes 4 AA batteries to run opposed to some cameras that only take 2. So that extra bit of power might have an effect on its ability to keep the film running near sync speed. I also shot at 18fps (the camera doesn't shoot 24), so that slower speed might also be a factor in the camera being able to run more efficiently. So speaking from experience, it is definitely possible to shoot a film on super 8 with external sound, perhaps different cameras will fluctuate on how effectively they can keep sound as I may have just gotten really lucky with my camera. But even so, some basic sound editing can keep it in sync - as I said if you cut the sound in a pause once it begins to run off then realign it ever so slightly it will continue to run in sync for however long your camera kept it - for me over 30 seconds. Plus in most cases for narrative short films, your takes aren't likely going to be much longer than that if you are smart about your coverage. Another pro tip that I discovered - my camera has a SUPER loud motor when its running, and I actually borrowed a friends camera as a backup while filming, his was also a Sankyo camera but one of their sound cameras, and the motor was nearly silent! So it would make sense that they would make their sound cameras run quieter than their standard cameras, so if you see an old sound camera it might be worth the investment if you plan to use it to shoot sound films - they might just lack a little in build quality. Admittedly I just stuck with my camera because I like the camera sound in the background (as the film is part psuedo-documentary it kind of adds to it) The film is a 50s/60s style sci-fi on black and white reversal, developed as a negative and scanned in 4k for anyone interested. If you're keen to see the film, keep an eye on my instagram @lukeormsbyart where I will continue to tease bits and pieces until its finished! Happy to answer any other questions people might have.
That is what is sometimes referred to as “mag-striped” film. The “tape” is film, and what looks like a copper filament is similar to audio tape, a magnetic strip. Or it is called “sound-on-film.” There are super-8 sound projectors made for playing these. If it is a commercially-made film, it will typically run at 24 frames per second. A home movie could run at either speed (24 or 18). A super-8 sound projector will usually have 2 speeds - 18 fps and 24 fps. But digitizing with a projector (projecting onto a screen and pointing a video camera at that) presents extra problems like flicker (due to the frame rate difference between film and TV.) For having the film digitized, I would look for a facility that could capture both the film and the audio. It may also be possible to have the film scanned, then the sound digitized separately in a sound projector, then put them together in a digital (computer) video editing program, although that would more than likely be hard or nearly impossible to keep in sync.
My dad bought the Bell&Howell FilmoSound system in 1969, in Flint, Michigan. We only filmed about 6 3-minute rolls with it. Here is one: ruclips.net/video/c4FwXREsZqQ/видео.html
I just watched your link. Excellent results. This type of filming is what the FilmoSound was designed for. By the way great examples of both outdoor and indoor filming. Thanks for sharing.
@@mrchairman08 Do you have any information about the Bell & Howell FilmoSound system? I haven't been able to find much. My dad actually bought it in 1969 but didn't understand the instructions. Eventually he or I erased a sync track and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't sync up any more in the projector. In hindsight I wish they had created an instruction film to go along with the system. There was nobody to ask when things went wrong. So he only made 5 or 6 films (of 3-minute reels) and just shot silent from then on, and used the tape recorder as a regular cassette recorder, but it would add squeals throughout the recordings. Although I have since figured it out, I've never found anyone else who understood how it worked.
Here’s all I know about this: This sync-sound system was in existence only between 1969-1972. There was a cable that connected between the camera and the cassette recorder, and a completely different one that connected between the projector and recorder for playback. For each shot, the recorder would start a couple seconds after pressing the button for shooting. You needed to film at least 7 seconds for each shot, preferably longer, but the cartridge only contained 3 minutes of film. B&H had special 5-minute cassettes, but it was possible to use any cassette. B&H salesmen didn’t know everything about it - their job was just to sell it and let the customer figure it out (or not). The manual was lame. It did not have much in the way of technical detail about how the sync track worked, and did not sufficiently warn customers to avoid erasing the sync-pulse on side B. There was no customer support, and no such thing as film festivals, promotions, or even commercials. It was not possible to edit the film and audiotape within this format. So far I’m the only one who has posted an authentic super-8 FilmOSound using this format (from the time period of 1969-1972) on youtube. The only other person I know of that experimented with this was Brian DePalma in his 1970 film “Hi Mom!” (with Lara Parker of Dark Shadows), a film where he experimented with different film cameras. This system would have been great to use for recording content at the time. There was a lot going on in 1969-1972, and we could still use more footage from those years from various cities.
At one point there was regular 8mm with magnetic sound striping like Super 8 sound film! Of course that's long gone, but there was at least one sound regular 8mm camera, the fairchild cinephonic 8mm sound camera!
It seems like the projector itself is a piece of crap. I had that same model and I could never get it to run right, even showing films that had no sound. It always seemed to run too slow and sluggish.
I didn't think the synced result would be that amazing but I couldn't help but say: WOW
Me too
Yeah that was actually really cool. I’m sure it was like magic when it came out
The 1970 Brian DePalma film "Hi Mom!" (with Robert DiNero) has a scene where a Bell&Howell salesman demonstrates the system to Lara Parker (Angelique from Dark Shadows), who then interviews a few people with it in New York City.
I shot and edited a full hour drama in 1970 while in high school using that early Filmosound 8 system! And yes, it was a really, really, big pain to shoot but especially crazy when editing! Lots of counting sprockets and pulses on the tape with a magnetic tape viewer. It did keep lip synced for me so there could be issues with the old equipment having issues (like me now!). If everything was cleaned and lubed it may help. Drag on those old machines may be causing problems. But....I recommend putting it on the shelf and enjoy looking at it as a piece of home movie film history and save pulling all your hair out trying to get it to work!
Here are some fun facts!
1) Did I say it was released in '68? Okay I meant to say '69, my mistake
B) Bell & Howell also made FilmoSound branded projectors earlier for 16mm which are unrelated to this. This is all FilmoSound 8 stuff
3) Not to be confused with Bell & Howell FilmoSONIC cameras
IV) Regardless of my final sync result, the cameras are still chunky and LOUD
dedication is unparalleled 👍
The fact that the Camrea died before the joke was finished is so frustrating. My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
Happy New Year, Noah!!! Just keep repeating, "2021 -- the year of the Kodak Super 8 Camera!"
Any day now...
@@jonnoMoto *BIG SMILE*!!!!
I am pursuing a full length movie Super 8 project. I've been testing different ways of syncing the sound by going over the footage from a short film I tried in 2005 that was never developed until 2021. I still have the old sound files--lousy with camera sound--And I've been syncing the two of them in Premiere Pro by listening and eyeballing it. It takes approximately nine edits per 3 minute roll. I just want you to know that you have rekindled my hope for being able to get this done with your tips on using the Bell & Howell system. Not that I plan on using the B&H system, but some of the ways that it works that you've demonstrated have given me ideas that should help me shortcut the process. So thanks! If I get to the point of filming and create an end credit sequence I'll make sure and give you a shout out.
Great job with finally getting that good of a sync! I’ve been trying for a while now to get Super 8 to sync well with sound for a movie project I’ve been working on, but unfortunately I just ran out of realistic options. Beaulieu actually did make a couple Super 8 cameras that natively had crystal sync motors in them, but they’re almost impossible to find and expensive when they do show up. That and the difficulty in blimping a Super 8 camera anyways (as well as limited shot length) kinda made me accept the inevitable and invest in 16mm. I got a CP-16, which was about US$1,400, and the film is obviously more expensive, but it’s given me great results so far! I’ve had to rework my plans to be a hybrid Super 8-16mm film instead of a purely Super 8 one, but it’s probably for the better in retrospect. Anyways, great video! And have a great new year! Hopefully 2021 will have some great things coming, like the vaccine and maybe even a new Super 8 camera (I still haven’t completely given up hope...)
Love this! You’ve indulged a major curiosity of mine as a fledgling Bell and Howell collector. Thanks, Noah!
Haha glad I could show it off!
Noah, Thanks for the shout out! And love that you tackled this.
I used to use the Super 8 Sound system. It was also sync pulse system, but it recorded sound on super 8 magnetic film strip. They had a synch block and a flat bed you could rent to edit. I used it to film interviews at the Ceaser Chavez funeral. I loved it. I eventually sold it back to Phil, the founder of Pro 8, and got into 16mm.
Thanks for posting, Noah. You answered one of my questions, which is why you don't see more old double system films with their respective tapes showing up at transfer houses and labs. They didn't work well, not many of them sold and what few films that were made with these systems probably frustrated the few people who bought them and so not many films exist with the sound track intact. Maybe you should try an experiment with the Canon 814 AZ, which was manufactured for Bell and Howell Filmosound, so at one point somebody didn't think it was such a bad system. I remember wanting one of these systems before Kodak came out with Ektasound when I saw a camera, projector and cassette recorder given away on a TV game show with a trip. Here's a suggestion regarding sync in today's world. Any camera that had a 1/F switch for syncing a flash for animation was a potential sync sound camera. If you could record those pulses onto an unused channel on any audio recorder, say, a Tascam or Zoom, you would have your sync reference. Great job on finding those Filmosound ads, you should post them online. Looking at those ads, you would never know how badly the system sucked.
I'm dating myself to say when I was college, in our Radio-TV-Film classes we used 16mm film cameras with crystal-sync audio tape decks to shoot projects, and they actually worked quite well. I have to smile when I hear kids today being so amazed at how we did things in the old days -- that actually worked! 😉
P.S. I assume the crackly tape audio at the beginning of this video was a "joke" about vintage analog technology? Because if your tape deck really sounds like that, that's too bad. I can get audio out of my Marantz portable cassette deck that's way cleaner.
When i got back into Super 8 in the early 1990's I acquired a Canon 1014e camera and an Elmo GS1200 with a pulse sync module. I did a number of sync sound projects which involved using a separate tape recorder to lay the audio with the pulse sync track down and when played back the pulse sync track feed into the projector kept it all synced. It worked very well.
Very cool! I've done some research about the Elmo stuff and it looks they had some much better quality device in comparison to the FilmoSound which is too basic and very early. Also being able to use the 1014 is far more appealing than using these cheaper Bell & Howell's for the system. Certain models of the Canon 814 had FilmoSound hookups, but that's a high end as it got and they're not easy to find.
I really liked this one, especially when you geared up and was ready to shoot
Very cool, thanks for this! My dad had one of these FilmoSound systems, and I'm about to try playing his old films, once I find the cassettes. Also, this video mentions stretching the audio digitally for syncing. Just wanted to point out that this can work very well if you break your audio (or video) into small sections, and then stretch or squeeze them one section at a time. Using this approach, I've been able to sync live band videos (played at fluctuating tempos) to studio music tracks (recorded to a click track). It can be tedious, but you just have manually line up your audio and video cues throughout the course of the movie, one section at a time.
I just did an experiment recently I mounted my Gopro to the top of my Canon 1014xls that way I could hear the Canon start and stop. In this case the Canon was running at 18fps. In editing I marked the Gopro footage where I could hear the camera start and stop and if necessary slowed or sped up the Cannon footage as the Gopro is running at a set speed. The longest shot I did was 30 second and it never drifted more than 2 frames. The sound of the Canon was very loud on in the soundtrack so you may want to use 2 mics on a audio splitter (or Y cable) the left channel for the camera sound and the right for recording the audio clean.
Back in those good old days you really had to be an enthusiast and work very hard to get live sound lip-sync onto Super 8 film, and that’s just the way it was. I am old enough to remember those old sync sound systems when they came out. But you are right the cameras never looked much, and besides I had a perfectly good Super 8 camera. In the 1980’s I found one of those film-o-sound cassette recorders in a junk shop that I bought for a couple of quid.
My Super 8 camera had a sync/flash socket outlet that I was able to plug into the film-o-sound cassette recorder. It could record a bleep for every frame that passed through the camera gate on a separate track on the cassette every time the camera trigger was pressed.
Then I recorded the cassette audio onto ¼” perforated audio tape that had 18 perforations per one second of tape speed (3 3/4" inches per second) on a high end reel to reel tape machine. As the bleep played back it actuated an LED that flashed each time a frame had passed through the camera gate. The LED was mounted behind the perforations of the ¼” mag tape. So as you did a transfer to 1/4" mag tape you had a strobe effect looking through the perforations as they ran past the flashing LED. A friend came up with a simple electronic controller to allow you to just tweak the playback speed of the cassette player if the strobe began to shift. It never introduced any wow or flutter during this process. In theory you had a length of tape that matched the length of each film clip.
Once you had done any editing of both film and audio. The edited film was sent off to have a magnetic sound stripe added. Once returned you threaded the film into your sound projector to a que mark. You laced your ¼” inch tape from the reel to reel tape deck through a device called a “SYNCRODEK” and connect a coupling shaft to a drive output from the projector. The syncrodek is basically an electro mechanical differential gear box that you could buy at the time, that compares the speed of both reel to reel tape deck and the projector. Press play on the tape deck. The syncrodek had a dial pointer that when it comes round to the correct point press record on the projector. And with luck you will have a lip-sync transfer onto film. Job done! Remember as I said, you had to work hard in those days to get live lip-sync onto Super 8 film. Apologies for the history lesson.
I bought the bell & howlell filmo sound outfit in 1971 for family filming ect I've still got the projector and tape recorder in the attic haven't look at it for years.p.s we can do our videos with compact mobile phones today 😅
Fantastic work collecting all the gear to make this video. Despite the mixed results it is very cool to see you follow it all the way to the end and get some footage regardless. Happy New Year!
I used the Optasound system between 1975 and 1980 and it did an excellent job for me.
using my GAF ST/ 1002 super 8 camera.(no mod needed) with the Optasound cassette recorder. and Eumig sound projector. (moded by optasound) I would have the film sound striped and then record the audio onto the film.
Previously, when traveling without a Super8 sound camera, it was problematic to record synchronous sound, and it was not by chance that many companies produced sound cameras.
This is the channel I get most excited for. Thanks for all the good info this year!
Keep these awesome videos coming. You brightened up a horrible year!
This is freaking amazing!! I have a couple of the recorders, but not the camera nor projector. It is really cool to see the whole set and demonstrations!! I love how it records the sync pulses.
This sort of sync method, and others was used extensively in pro and semi pro film shooting for decades. Remember the system you demonstrate it only synced when played through the filmosound projector and with the cassette deck connected as per the instructions. Done right it would have stayed in frame accurate lip sync for the entire take. Remember that B & H would probably have had no idea if or when Kodak would introduce their sound on film system. It's easy to be wise in retrospect.
It is cool to see it work in a digital workspace
I love the unabashed jankiness! Even at its best, the Filmosound leaves a string of light on the film overexposing a few frames. Plus I'm a Norm Macdonald fun! Overall great video!
We were able to play the first few films back with them synced up. But eventually we didn’t know about the sync track and wound up recording other audio on the other side of the tape, erasing the sync track. From then on, those films could not be played with sync sound with the projector, and my dad thought the system was broken, so he lost interest filming with sync sound. (1969-1972)
Our films wound up slowing down to anywhere between 16 to 17 fps.
I’m able to use Final Cut Pro 7 (the obsolete version) to sync up the digitized film with the audio.
Enjoy your channel and content, I love the look and aesthetic of 8mm, unfortunately cost of film and development and scans makes it a very expensive endeavor. Happy 2021, looking forward to 2021 content!
Thanks!
Nicely done.👍👍I would call the Filmosound system a triple sound system because without all three of the B&H components you will not get (sortof) sync sound, whereas the film with magnetic recording directly on the film will be in sync regardless of the brand of 8mm magnetic sound projector you use. I would guess that the folks that bought the complete Filmosound system used it once and then gave up on the sound and cassette part. The Kodak sound Super 8 film was a great idea, too bad they no longer make it. The new Kodak 8mm film camera that records audio digitally in sync with the film is a cool idea but the price is crazy. I guess crazy, rich hollywood folks can play with it. Imagine Taylor's next concert film shot on Super 8.
I've been so excited for this video since you posted it on Patreon!
Amazing episode, Noah. 📽
Terrific video! Very informative and enjoyable.
Happy new year Noah :-) Looking forward to watching next year :-) Have a good un m8
This is awesome. I have this exact setup and now I have an excuse to use it.
I just got a Filmosound 433 recently at Goodwill for $8 USD. My first reel will be shot on Vision3 500T, which came a couple days ago. I've already shot some test footage around the house and shot some outdoor footage in the snow today. Yes, I did use the internal 85 filter correctly. It came with the action grip, but the shutter button was broken. It has a weird shutter button on top of the camera, though. If you depress it fully, you will start filming at 36fps. Depress it too little and it will not fully engage (and/or possibly film at a slower frame rate, from what I can hear). So I've been trying to find the sweet spot without needing to use the shutter lock. I have half a reel left to film and can't wait to get inspired to shoot what's left of the precious 50ft reel. However, I'm most likely not going to acquire the cassette recorder and its accessories at a decent price (when I actually have money is another matter). Love your channel, Noah!!
Thought provoking content, as always. And I’m glad you are moving toward your sync sound 8mm goal. I’m not sure why but sometimes on film sets they would do a “tail slate” where the clapboard was held into frame upside down and clapped again before “cut” was called. For shorter takes that might be enough
Tail slates were used mainly in documentary filming when you couldn't get a head slate, usually because you started filming when you saw some action, without slating. The slate was held upside down just to make it clear, on viewing, that it was a tail slate and not the beginning of the next shot.
I'm working on some Super 8 sound stuff including using the sound cartridges plus TASCAM, we'll see how it turns out once COVID is out of the way. Great video and dedication!
That sounds very interesting!
1: How about syncronising the audio and film by having a clapperboard in both ends of the shot. Then you can measure the time on the film and on the audio and adjust so it fits in both ends and thereby over the entire stretch. 2: Bauer T1S could synchronise an ordinary reel tape with super 8 in 1965. It had a build in syncromat but it is quite rare today. Projectors with syncromat for standard 8 are much more common. 3: That is not a tape deck - it is a tape recorder. A tape deck is a tape recorder without amplifier and speaker meant for connecting to a stereo system.
Regarding #1, the Filmosound system does that automatically for you without a clapboard. When you start shooting film, the camera fogs the film edge as a signal for the projector to start the record wherein the sync pulses start to provide speed information. And #2, yes! those systems were quite expensive and rare. The Bell & Howell system was targeted for the mass consumer market and attempted to be easy to use and somewhat affordable (still expensive when new). In the present, at least parts of this system is easy to find unlike the Bauer. I managed to cobble a working system together several years ago and it actually works pretty well- but again, the cameras are no Bauer but then again it was easier to find and way cheaper.
Haha that was great and an oddly measured response to the usual mentions of the Ko...that certain camera :)
Food for thought...if the FilmoSound just records the clicks of the shutter, I wonder if you could just use a hand-held Tascam or similar digital camera and use a small mic that you can just tape to the camera to record the shutter and then use the other channel for audio? Or, to keep it fully analog, do the same thing but on a cassette (_except_ and maybe this might be part of the issue, most cassette players themselves are not sync'd and can drift as well). A shame it didn't work as well but it was indeed a very clever idea and thanks so much for sharing this! I had no idea this even existed until now and it certainly offers up some potential clever ways to try to get 8mm sound sync.
Awesome. You made it work.
Thanks for sharing Noah ❤🍻
Awesome video!
Unless you shot the entire film cartridge in one take, it's not clear to me how B&H expected each take to sync up. But for digital use in this century, it seems the camera is the only part of the system you'd need - you should be able to record the sound and "sync pulse" on any stereo recorder - cassette or otherwise!
Was the film speed to fast? but now you can do old school Kung fu films
Would be interesting to see how the Eumig system worked. My 128XL has a sync out port for their recorder system, maybe by the late 1970s the technology had improved?! ;-)
Happy New Year
It was entertaining, blessed new year .
This is so cool.
Man... that sinc was perfect!!!but I really wanted to hear the dam punch line!!!!!
Great Video
Call it Filmosound-8 - the correct system name. The best super-8 camera made was the Canon AutoZoom 814 (not electronic), marketed in the US modified with the special double plug connector to the cassette recorder cable
You should get the original Bell & Howell Filmosound-8 service manual--there's a lot more technical theory occurring than anyone realizes
What type of film is this? I just bought bought the exact same camera. Also is there color film made for this camera? Can you use the set up without the projector if you're going to digitally sync video and sound?
This is Tri-X Super 8 reversal film. This camera takes Super 8 film cartridges which are made by Kodak in both black and white and color. The video details my experience syncing it up digitally with the tape recorder accessory, but you can do it without that. It will take quite a bit of editing and adjusting the audio to match the camera, it won't just sync up right away because the motor of the camera runs at a variable speed.
Hi I just came across your channel today while looking for a way to get my new Polaroid 800 land camera to work with film that I can get ahold of any way I can do so?
I know where this would work, narrating a scene. If the sync isn't 100%, who cares. But shooting synced sound of a human speaking has always been a struggle up until the combination of digital video and sound. These systems were used, very successfully I might add, by documentary film makers, railway enthusiasts, and scientists in the field.
It worked, but it had its limits. Much of the footage captured was converted to VHS format in the 80's and the original footage is either destroyed or stashed in a library somewhere forgotten about.
Notice how much more natural and human this guy looks on even poorly exposed film. Compare how sharp and harsh the high resolution ccd renders his visage.
I wonder if anyone has explored retrofitting a super-8 camera with a more modern motor assembly. Making a motor capable of running at "crystal sync" speed with modern technology doesn't actually sound like that difficult of a problem. It just requires components that weren't considered "affordable consumer technology" back when these cameras were originally made.
This is why Kodak needs to give you a demo unit of that vaporware movie camera. How do THEY address the sync issue?
Is there a way to use leaked sound of the camera (shutter/motor noise) as a 'raw' version of those deliberately recorded filmosound sync pulses?
The new camera simply uses a crystal sync motor which accurately locks in the selected frame rate for syncing audio with afterwards. Old Super 8 cameras have variable speed motors which is why sync drifts. Crystal sync motors for film cameras have been around for decades, but just usually not found in Super 8 cameras.
I wonder if a modified cable could work with a Tascam field pack recorder.
Well, just throwing this out there but you used the audio of the camera as a reference to get a digital sync? Why not use a stereo recording where one channel records the camera sound and the other channel records the dialogue? You will get a mono recording, but one can just use more than one sound source.
Does this 450 recorder work with the bell and Howell Audi cube for bell and Howell slide cube projector ?
Is there any super 8 camera that shoots at a consistent frame rate ? Like professional super 8 camera
Great video!!! Would you consider sharing the software that you used to manage the frame rates for the sound? I really appreciate the information. Be safe
I used the editing program Adobe Premiere Pro!
Please can you a video about kodak extasound 140 super 8 movie cine camera?
The hack worked fine.
Greta video! Hey I’m new to film. But could you use this camera without all the sound just as a super 8?
Yes! The tape recorder is just an accessory and isn't required to shoot film in the camera.
@@AnalogResurgence perfect!! Thank you! ❤️
Heads up on Kodak: They didn't invent that Digital Super 8 camera. They merely bought it out from a European company and slapped their name on it. I cannot stand it when these huge established corporations buy out other smaller companies and individuals products and patents _[as if they did all the R&D on it]_ lest they actually innovate on their own. They've been sitting on this product for about *5 years!* It's completed! What could they possibly be doing this whole time if the product has already been successfully developed and market tested? If there's no intent to sell, they need to sell the patents to another company. Kodak's bread and butter is selling film anyway. Perhaps Canon, Braun or maybe even Bell and Howell can get in the next generation of the Super 8 game.
I'd like your face on a t-shirt! Ooh! What About coffee mugs or camera bags with a collage of your photos on it? With the like high contrast film.
So with that exposed edge, I wonder if it uses a light bulb and photocell to manage the film speed. If that bulb went out, it would fail. You might see if there is a bulb out.
I have this system! Actually, the light bulb and photo cell doesn't maintain film speed but it is the signal from the projector to get the tape recorder to start running. Also it doesn't use a light bulb in the projector (a small light bulb is in the camera to fog the edge of the film to provide the clear marker for the projector to recognize), in the projector it uses light from the projector bulb to trigger a photocell. To maintain film speed, the sync pulse on the tape communicates with the projector to speed it up or slow it down. Most likely, the electronics in the projector has failed (ie. old capacitors etc).
Happy New year! How many minutes would I roughly get on 33ft of double perf 8mm film? I couldn't really find any good info
Regular 8mm cameras run at 16fps and you shoot the roll through the camera twice! 33ft would be roughly 2 minutes and 45 seconds on each side, so about 5 minutes all together
@@AnalogResurgence whait twice? I'm confused 😅 so is 8mm like double sided or something like that?
Also, I almost want to learn Raspberry Pi software and hardware stuff so I can make a sync motor for a super 8 camera.
Amazing! If you could apply your genius problem solving to the issues across the globe -- world peace! the end of poverty! Super 8 for everyone!!!!
You could shoot a silent film and voice over it in post!
At $50 here in Australia per cartridge, and 2:30 @ 24fps, that's $2.50 per second lol. That's how much it now costs in Australia.
Link for the whole joke?
I actually talked to a few people about essentially the same system (pilotone on my Eclair NPR). There are some audio software programs out there that could conceivably take a reference tone/frequency and use it to temporally transform an audio file dynamically. None of them would exactly do it “out of the box,” but it is definitely something that a competent programmer could create.
Here’s the best lead I had, he said a competent MAX programmer could re-work the math to take my 60hz signal and sync off that: www.zachpoff.com/software/film-o-sync/
I ended up dropping my inquiries because I found a crystal motor for the Eclair, rendering that need moot.
I’d highly suggest a decent crystal 16mm camera for sound. I’ve found 16mm to be only marginally more expensive vs Super-8 anyway.
Sync sound with a projector is HARD to pull off, even if you have digital components in the mix. There's a program called filmosync (www.zachpoff.com/software/film-o-sync/ - mac version and drive.google.com/file/d/1ztOK0J-8UyRYxqwowNFlQ8aofvYCEfWt/view?usp=sharing - windows version) that you can use to sync an audio file with projector playback in real time. If you edit footage digitally and sync it with an audio file via lip sync or pulses, you can transfer those edits to your original film and play it back nearly perfectly.
I barely got it to work, though I was using a clockwork camera and I edited on film - it was a lot of trial and error to find the right speed. I did get it to more or less hold sync for like 10+ minutes though.
I remember coming across that program a while back, interesting stuff!
streamer with funny mic be like : 0:06
I actually just shot a short film on Super 8 with sound and actually had a very good experience.
I went in, based on your previous videos, fully expecting to have to sync every take sentence to sentence to keep it in sync aaannnddd much to my surprise I didn't have to! I shot without a slate (to save film) because I was only going to do one or two takes it wasn't going to be a big challenge to figure out what sound take went with what film take. We recorded a couple of sound only takes as a backup before we rolled film, but so far I haven't had to use any of them (though I haven't started the sound edit yet).
In a total of 7 rolls of film, there were only two takes in the entire film where I had to add a couple of splices in the sound to keep it up to speed with the film. For both takes it was over 30-45 seconds before any noticeable sync issues arose. Which I found very surprising based on your test video, which made me think... I'm no electrician or anything but my camera (a Sankyo MF-606) takes 4 AA batteries to run opposed to some cameras that only take 2. So that extra bit of power might have an effect on its ability to keep the film running near sync speed. I also shot at 18fps (the camera doesn't shoot 24), so that slower speed might also be a factor in the camera being able to run more efficiently. So speaking from experience, it is definitely possible to shoot a film on super 8 with external sound, perhaps different cameras will fluctuate on how effectively they can keep sound as I may have just gotten really lucky with my camera. But even so, some basic sound editing can keep it in sync - as I said if you cut the sound in a pause once it begins to run off then realign it ever so slightly it will continue to run in sync for however long your camera kept it - for me over 30 seconds. Plus in most cases for narrative short films, your takes aren't likely going to be much longer than that if you are smart about your coverage.
Another pro tip that I discovered - my camera has a SUPER loud motor when its running, and I actually borrowed a friends camera as a backup while filming, his was also a Sankyo camera but one of their sound cameras, and the motor was nearly silent! So it would make sense that they would make their sound cameras run quieter than their standard cameras, so if you see an old sound camera it might be worth the investment if you plan to use it to shoot sound films - they might just lack a little in build quality. Admittedly I just stuck with my camera because I like the camera sound in the background (as the film is part psuedo-documentary it kind of adds to it)
The film is a 50s/60s style sci-fi on black and white reversal, developed as a negative and scanned in 4k for anyone interested. If you're keen to see the film, keep an eye on my instagram @lukeormsbyart where I will continue to tease bits and pieces until its finished! Happy to answer any other questions people might have.
How can I digitize a super 8 mm with sound? I have old movies
Do your films have sound on film with the magnetic stripe on the film?
Or is the sound on a separate cassette?
@@timstamps5281 it has a little copper filment on the actual tape
That is what is sometimes referred to as “mag-striped” film. The “tape” is film, and what looks like a copper filament is similar to audio tape, a magnetic strip. Or it is called “sound-on-film.” There are super-8 sound projectors made for playing these. If it is a commercially-made film, it will typically run at 24 frames per second. A home movie could run at either speed (24 or 18). A super-8 sound projector will usually have 2 speeds - 18 fps and 24 fps. But digitizing with a projector (projecting onto a screen and pointing a video camera at that) presents extra problems like flicker (due to the frame rate difference between film and TV.)
For having the film digitized, I would look for a facility that could capture both the film and the audio. It may also be possible to have the film scanned, then the sound digitized separately in a sound projector, then put them together in a digital (computer) video editing program, although that would more than likely be hard or nearly impossible to keep in sync.
Come on what's the punchline?
I found the joke and it is hilarious.
Noah, you are a genius!
J'espère qu'on peut faire un montage sonore avec cette pellicule.
Je cherchais cette bande son enregistreuse !
My dad bought the Bell&Howell FilmoSound system in 1969, in Flint, Michigan. We only filmed about 6 3-minute rolls with it.
Here is one: ruclips.net/video/c4FwXREsZqQ/видео.html
I just watched your link. Excellent results. This type of filming is what the FilmoSound was designed for. By the way great examples of both outdoor and indoor filming. Thanks for sharing.
@@mrchairman08 Do you have any information about the Bell & Howell FilmoSound system?
I haven't been able to find much. My dad actually bought it in 1969 but didn't understand the instructions. Eventually he or I erased a sync track and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't sync up any more in the projector. In hindsight I wish they had created an instruction film to go along with the system. There was nobody to ask when things went wrong. So he only made 5 or 6 films (of 3-minute reels) and just shot silent from then on, and used the tape recorder as a regular cassette recorder, but it would add squeals throughout the recordings.
Although I have since figured it out, I've never found anyone else who understood how it worked.
@@timstamps5281 Sorry, I do not have any documentation on this system. The video does a great job explaining how this system functions.
Here’s all I know about this:
This sync-sound system was in existence only between 1969-1972.
There was a cable that connected between the camera and the cassette recorder, and a completely different one that connected between the projector and recorder for playback.
For each shot, the recorder would start a couple seconds after pressing the button for shooting. You needed to film at least 7 seconds for each shot, preferably longer, but the cartridge only contained 3 minutes of film.
B&H had special 5-minute cassettes, but it was possible to use any cassette.
B&H salesmen didn’t know everything about it - their job was just to sell it and let the customer figure it out (or not).
The manual was lame. It did not have much in the way of technical detail about how the sync track worked, and did not sufficiently warn customers to avoid erasing the sync-pulse on side B.
There was no customer support, and no such thing as film festivals, promotions, or even commercials.
It was not possible to edit the film and audiotape within this format.
So far I’m the only one who has posted an authentic super-8 FilmOSound using this format (from the time period of 1969-1972) on youtube. The only other person I know of that experimented with this was Brian DePalma in his 1970 film “Hi Mom!” (with Lara Parker of Dark Shadows), a film where he experimented with different film cameras.
This system would have been great to use for recording content at the time. There was a lot going on in 1969-1972, and we could still use more footage from those years from various cities.
I am very curious. If anyone knows the punchline, do let me know.
You can at least try dipping your toes in shooting a whole video in 8mm videotape style and happy new year!
everyone: talking about sound super 8
me who wants sound regular 8 even though that'll never happen: 👁👄👁
At one point there was regular 8mm with magnetic sound striping like Super 8 sound film! Of course that's long gone, but there was at least one sound regular 8mm camera, the fairchild cinephonic 8mm sound camera!
Bell and howel and kodak made em
You should edit on the film, too. Editing such a video with premier is weak.
Besides, its not like the editors are rare or anything........
It seems like the projector itself is a piece of crap. I had that same model and I could never get it to run right, even showing films that had no sound. It always seemed to run too slow and sluggish.
This system never worked that well
That is so much work in order to have audio "onto" your recording. Not really the best, or most practical, engineering in my opinion.
Maybe not, but I'm having a TON of fun anyways
@@AnalogResurgence Awesome, that's what matters. I just meant that for practical use that is not very user friendly. Love your videos, btw!
@@nareyubr Haha I agree, it was interesting to learn about and experiment with but it's not very practical for much!
Why bother with what we have today.- all digital on a chip. So much record time and low price and easy.
Oh shoot ya, I never realized that