SOUND Super 8 Cameras & Film | CAN YOU USE THEM?
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- Did you pickup a fancy Super 8 camera that can record sound? Wondering if you can use it to start making some home movies with audio? Well these cameras can't be used like they used to, but that doesn't mean they're useless! I'm taking a look at Sound Super 8 cameras and film!
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I want sound cartridges to come back!
Betamax Flippy YES
@@peebowl7927 they never would.
It'll never happen. The ecological issue was barely a concern when they discontinued sound cartridges before, but it's definitely one now.
Second. Also I really wish sound film was reintroduced.
Couldn't agree more, they should totally bring sound super 8 film back.
@@proudtobeautistic We should start sending emails and tweets to Kodak so they can bring it back.
Agreed
The new Kodak Super 8 camera would have separate audio recording on an SD card, but now nothing seems to be happening regarding that.
For an even more niche market? With what we already have they’re already pushing it.
In the 1970's, when I was going to college, I was working at Henry's Camera & Hi-Fi at 7th & Olive in downtown Los Angeles when Kodak reps came to the store to demo the EktaSound Super 8 cameras before they were released. They were pretty remarkable considering the technology of the day. Interesting Fact: On the side of the camera was an image of a sound clip. The rep said it was a visual representation of someone saying the word "Kodak."
What a fascinating bit! Thank you for sharing, super 8 and Kodak's history is so fascinating to me. 😂
You should make a video on regular 8mm film would love to see that!
YES
The cost would be insane.
@@LaskyLabs Four 3-minute cartridges, $160. Development and scanning, about $100. Not so bad. Just have to be well-practiced so there is no screw-ups and re-takes to burn footage.
Good video.
Back in the late 70’s I purchased a Canon 514xls camera. Looks like the one you have here. I really wasn’t a fan of the sound cameras but I was a fan of the sound projectors. I liked recording background music on the balance track. Sound ran 18 frames ahead of picture, so editing was awful. Also the camera was very noisy and that camera noise was recorded on the sound track.
The Nizo has a great lens. I used one in college back in the 80’s.
Also the microphones on the cameras and projectors were awesome and I still use one today for sound recording on my computer.
The frame of film and the sound for that frame are spaced apart because the stop and go advancement of the projected image needs to transition to a steady fluid motion for the sound strip. Cameras and projectors are designed to have the same spacing of these components, so if both machines are working properly, the projected film and the audio for it will be in sync.
Love seeing these kinds of informative videos! 🎥🎞️
Starting with the regular 8mm Farichild movie camera, magnetic stripe arrived for movies and some fresh 8mm film was pre-striped for sound, something some companies did for Super 8 and those cartridges sometimes show up. Yes, you should do a video on Super 8 cameras that recorded sound separately, maybe noting how some of Fuji's Single 8 cartridge with Super 8 film inside also did magnetic sound or the one model that wrote optical sound on silent film. My only other thing to say is that you can still get old, unopened Super 8 sound cartridges and record sound on them and use them, though many have to be developed in back and white. Some later sound cartridges can still be developed for color and they include Agfa Moviechrome (from 1982, but try anything from 1986 onward because the older cartridges have yellow calcium and mold; also issued under the Perutz, Revue (from 1986 onward) and (from 1983 onward) Porst names,)and Kodak 7244 Supermatic film was the first E6 color, but that series have mixed results, though it is one of three 200ft. sound cartridges that you are most likely to get color from. Kodachrome is dead and Kodak 7242 has all kinds of fading and grain issues. I'll be shooting two older Super 8 Sound cartridges with older color, but have the older chemicals to develop them and three microphones to ry out, including that one you have from the Ektasound 140 camera. Thanks for another excellent video!
I remember those Super 8 cameras as a Kid the one with the sound.
Wich film camera is better to buy?
Minolta Autopak-8 D10 or Sankyo sound xl-60s?
Thank you!
The Minolta for sure!
Don't forget you can still get super8 and Normal8 film sound striped. The sound stripe on these sound carts was actually a liquid kind of sound stripe called paste stripe. You can still get your film sound striped with paste or laminate sound stripe in Germany or Italy. I sometimes do wild sync with super8 and then synchronize the sound back to my sound film. Although this only works with small clips of about 10 to 20 seconds tops. You could also use double sound systems. One nice example is the more rare double system of Fuji with a synchronized cassette recorder and a single8 camera with a special sync accessory. The systems allowed to sync the sound from the cassette recorder to the post striped film with a sync projector in combination with a sync box. You also have those do it yourself sound strippers. Like the juwel. Both I have in my collection. And don't forget the sound viewers, a must have when you want to edit sound film. I use it in combination with a fujica 2 track splicer. With this splicer you leave both tracks free. So they can both be used. If you want some more info about those double systems let me know. There a few different systems out there. For example you have the one I just mentioned with a sync tape recorder but you also had systems with perfo tape and sync pulsed reel to reel recorders (cassette recorder also works with pilot tone).
Looking forward to that video on using the 1000Hz impulse for achieving synchronized sound with a super 8 camera and an external recorder. Possibly a newer digital one?!?
Hey, the future is here already. T'would be a video I would see for sure.
super helpful and very interesting as i just got a canon sound super 8 camera for my birthday, thank you so much!
I use them at family barbeques and stuff because my grandpa gave it to me. My uncle digitized a bunch of super 8 tapes from thier childhood and they were hilarious
I don't know if you've seen this but check this link for recording sync sound using an iPhone :- ruclips.net/video/Npkh8agoodg/видео.html
I love it and wish it was that easy for all Super 8 cameras! They’re using a custom modified Canon model that has a special sync motor to achieve consistent speeds!
I have one of those ektasound cameras from 1973 lol. my other S-8 cameras are a bare bones Bentley B-3 and a B&H 1225. They were just local finds. I guess I need to do better lol. Not a fan of those B&H projectors because they eat film, but I have Kodak Moviedeck 285 which seems to work good other than the auto rewind kicking on, but I do like the little pull out screen on the side. I also have another Kodak instamatic projector where you’re suppose to put your 50 ft reel in these black plastic carts for easy threading. I’ve learned a lot watching your videos so far. Great channel! 👍
Thank you for sharing this valuable information. I been plotting on buying super8 film for my camera.
Excuse me. I was looking for my goddamn buggy whip. Have you seen it?
i´d love to see how you digitalize the sound of 8mm film. im struggling to find any solutions to do it myself...
It would be really cool if Kodak or a 3rd party could bring this film back
Kodak also made a 200' sound cartridge that sat on top of the camera like a professional film magazine - but it doesn't look like the cameras you're showing could take it. Perhaps it was just a few Kodak models introduced later?
imagine if kodak started making sound super 8 film again
I wonder, some of these cameras have an Auxiliary (Aux) port. I assume you could still use the Aux port to record onto an external sound recorder. Or do the contacts still have some sort of uses with that? I.E. does the film still need to be in contact with the internal pass through device to record film? Some of those brands you mentioned E.G. Beaulieu, Nizo, Elmo, Canon and so on had some cameras with such a port.
There were even some higher end models such as the Elmo 1012s that did have a servo to keep the sound in sync eliminating the desync issues that plague super 8 when you try to sync sound in post with Premier (or whatever you use). Some others also used quartz crystal method for syncing sound. Both methods were designed to deal with desync, wow, and flutter. For dealing with sync issues I was thinking it would certainly be easier than using a clap board (for instance). However, your video doesn't touch on these higher end cameras such as the Elmo I mentioned. Have you got a video on that, or should I just go out and trial and error?
From my understanding you would still need at least a cassette recorder such as a walkman with a record button, or something more sophisticated such as a Tascam or Zoom, but from my understanding also you should still be able to get sound out of them.... I may just go out and trial and error....
I recently managed to pick up an Elmo that has an aux port for a stupid price ($90 AUD, where they can run up to $500 in Australia). I guess the worst thing that could happen is that I get a reel of film back with no sound at all. I may just give that a shot and report back. The 1012s that I have has a servo, from my very limited understanding (of other devices of the same era such as turntables, and in general) it should remove the sync issue and I should still be able to record sound in sync with the film....
I thought the sound features of these cameras were dead, for a while, and then I thought about cameras such as the one I mentioned in this comment. They should still work... If I'm not mistaken of course? That's on the basis of the sound being output onto an external tape (or digital recorder) Hmm.... It sounds like something I shall have to play with...
Thanks a lot doctor analogous filmen 🎥 🎞 your information was super clearly and brings the non possibilities to make super 8 music film 🎥
How do you “blimp” the camera if and when a crystal is installed?
Thanks a lot. I bought a sound super8 camera immediately when you told it works with normal super 8 film as well.
Hi people. I have a ektasound 140 kodak and i can't buy tapes. Where can i self tapes for this cam???
Nice over view. The 200' sound cartridges (Kodachrome 40) were a convenient development. But I never purchased the appropriate camera. Did you?
I’ve yet to come across one of those cameras or even cooler would be a box of the old film! Maybe someday!
Never actually seen one of the cartridges, but both of my current Super 8 cameras (a Nizo 6080 and an Elmo 1012S-XL) have adapters for the 200' cartridges: they've got these little light-tight panels that you can detach from the top of the regular cartridge housing.
I have my dads old Canon super 8, sound camera, can only find Kodak Ektachrome sound film on EBay, seems jinky, and wondering if you can buy it somewhere more reputable, and is there even a place to have it processed?
I want to collect "old school" movies. 8mm, 16mm etc ... But I have no place to install a projector. Don't these have a player that works with hdmi? How do I solve this job?
Sad story :/ the worst part is that I believe even expired cartridges wouldn’t work nowadays because of the iron tape. If film itsef gets ruined...
First
It's cool that they made these at all, but the wow and flutter on the audio must be insane.
I want to be you
Thank you, just bought a Canon 514 XL-S because it was a good deal on eBay. Nice to know that I can use film still made haha. My camera did come with two old rolls expired in the early 80s of Type A Kodachrome 40 & Type G Ektachrome 160 though, so I may use them with sound or may not. It would be cool if I could get those processed somewhere.
Extachrome can still be processed. Kodachrome can not.
Do you know if you can use a regular audio cassette sound head for recording the Super8+ audio?
Good video I really liked it.
Where is the merchandise!? 😂
Do next video about editing film and sound on it or sync process
This channel is a life saver whenever I’m in need of knowledge on what film stock to use or what this camera does there’s almost definitely a detailed video on it
i got a Kodak Super 8 EktaSound 240 Movie Camera, do you have any info on the quality of film for this model since the sound is pretty much useless?
Not sure what you mean by the 'quality' of film, but it can take currently available Super 8 film from Kodak! I would probably stick to a low ISO film like 50D so that the camera will automatically expose it well.
ruclips.net/video/wR3_SmS6sn8/видео.html
I started my business making super 8 films for small companies and community orgs. Considering all the challenges of making the format work, it is a miracle that my business survived that stage. One of the biggest challenges was getting around the noisy cameras. The camera makers failed to adequately address this problem.
It's a pretty hard issue to address also as there doesn't seem to be all that many blimps that are specifically made for super 8 cameras. I saw another person on RUclips wrap a towel around his camera to, sort of, blimp it. I am unsure how much noise that would actually reduce though.
The biggest problem with coming up with a blimp that I see for a super 8 camera is where the record button and trigger is located. Although... a remote trigger would fix half the issue, the secondary issue would be how you either view (or tap) the video side of things, and how you maintain the ability to focus it.
Hi , I am from Toronto. Thanks for the awesome video. I have an opportunity to buy a Canon 514XL-S. Nice to hear that this camera also works with silent super 8 film.. I can now decide to buy it. thanks again.
Another Great Video! Well Done. 👍👍👍
Thanks for the information On The Sound Part Of Super8 That You Can Use Super8 Film Into A Super8 Sound Camera. It Answered Many Questions. Thanks Again.
Do you also have a tutorial of the NIKON R8
Great information!!!! Thanks
I wonder is it still possible to use these old sound cartridges since they are readily available on Ebay and many people have shot expired films like Kodachrome decades after they have expired so theoretically you possibly could still use these sound cartridges if they were the last ones produced and if they were stored properly. I will try to shoot one of these cartridges and update the results in the comments for this comment.
Well what happened?
Sadly not too long ago I threw out the last cartridges I had of unused Kodachrome 40, pre-striped (with sighs of pain), along with my GAF Super 8 sound camera. Missed the boat of the last K-14 run, so it was totally useless (and no, I didn't care to use it as B&W negative - felt sort of sacrilegious with Kodachrome). But honestly if you want the magnetic sound experience all you have to do is record with a digital recorder, then either re-record it to an audiotape recorder and re-digitize it, or taper off the high and low frequency EQ to keep the midrange (200 hz - 8000 hz). That'll get you in the ballpark.
Anyone here seen "Everyone Stares: The Police Inside Out"? It consists of Super 8 footage shot by the Police's drummer Stewart Copeland. He shot film while on tour and in studio. Later he put it all together in a documentary back in 2006 or so. Really neat.
I'm going to run a roll of expired Ektachrome sound Super 8 through my Canon 1014 XL-S camera and self develop (ECN2) as a negative in a limo tank. Will any of this process affect the sound strip adversely? The film is from 1976 and still in its sealed box.
But I'm not sure you answered, if I have a s8 sound camera and some s8 sound ektachrome film. Is there any reason I cannot shoot sound on the expired film?
There's no reason the mag strip won't stay on the film during development, right?
Treat it based on a lab to lab basis. Some might, but others won’t. I’ve known and heard of labs that won’t take it because it can turn to gunk in the machines after all this time. Contact the lab!
@@AnalogResurgence Thanks for that info.
I shot news in the Pacific with Super 8 when it was in vogue. Nice light format to use, but limited in many areas. Cameras weren't designed for humid conditions. The Euro cameras are the best. But these days the Super 8 format, I believe is just a dream, BUT FUN.
I recall when Super 8 sound cameras recording on the Balance Strip was a big thing. Then XL and "can you make a movie in low/lower/lowest light?" was the next Super 8 fad. For advanced film makers, the next stop was DS8/Double Super 8, which was a bit like "big brother" 16mm film (Or even obsolete Double 8mm). Analog film makers, stymied by the limitations of Super 8 movie making, soon discovered the Video Recorder + Video camera, which began with two piece units, and led to the single package Camcorder, etc.
I recorded a birthday party for my cousin on Kodak Vision 3 200T super 8mm film in the Pro8mm “Rhonda Cam”, and recorded audio on my iPhone. The sound would match with the film at times, but slip out of sync as well. It was fun, and my family loved it even though the sound was not in sync very well.
Yes, I remember sound and silent super 8 films quite well. I wonder why these sound cameras didn't use an optical sound track, like you see on 16mm films, rather than a magnetic sound track.
An optical track required a lot of film real estate to work at all. Quality of magnetic sound was much higher. Optical super 8 never caught on.
@@HDVbyMG That makes sense. I recall the sound track on 16 mm films was about 2 mm wide.
Great informative video. Thanks! I recently bought an old Chinon 4100 sound projector and want to find some old (exposed) sound film movies to run on it and experiment with sound on sound. I also got 2 boxes (unopened) of old, unexposed sound film from the 80's.
I have a sound camera and it is usable for silent film too but the cartridge sensor is where the silent cartridges cant reach even in this video the silent film does not depress the cartridge sensor
does anyone know how to fix this
I’ve watched a couple of your videos on super 8mm camera and I’m glad to say it’s given me some insight on what to expect. I’m just very confused as to where I can go to order one and what kind of camera I should buy, I would really appreciate some feedback
Well there’s lots of options out there! I always like to use the website:
www.filmkorn.org/super8data/
They have a big camera database that you can check out to find one based on what you’re looking to do. Unfortunately there’s not like one solid place to go for buying them and I end up hunting in thrift stores, EBay and on local sites like craigslist or Kijiji! You can always try:
cinematography.com/index.php?/forum/15-cine-marketplace/
Analog Resurgence thank you so much dude
I wonder what exactly they meant by "enviromental regulations".
Wow! I didn't know there was a difference size in the sound and silent cartridges. Too bad the sound camera film isn't available anymore.
This helped me so much thank you because I want to use my super 8 camera and i was like wait they use different cartridges and thank god they are compatible
I wish your channel was bigger I’ve learned so much from you! Thank youu
I hope you get to talk about those super 8 cameras with separate audio recorders sooner than later. I actually have one of them, a Synchronex model (albeit the tape recorder needs some TLC).
This was really so very interesting! Thanks for this great video.
Curious question….. was the famous (Kennedy Assassination footage) Zapruder Film, Nix Film, or Muchmore Film done on Super 8? If not, what format, do you know? I know that Beverly Oliver who stated she was shooting home movie footage, was using an experimental Yashika cartridge prototype specifically given to her by a Kodak representative whom she worked with…, it was so new, That to get her film developed she had to mail it in a special envelope to the Kodiak film processing plant, so that they could specifically process the film from it’s unusual & futuristic cartridge….
Interesting! I'm not exactly sure, but I believe the Zapruder film was regular 8mm (Super 8 didn't release until 1965). The Zapruder film was shot using a Bell and Howell camera (I've read it was a 414 PD Bell & Howell Zoomatic Director Series Camera). I've also covered Regular 8mm in a different video as well!
ruclips.net/video/VdU9u-uqCJE/видео.html
As a novice enthusiast still having my childhood 70s Super8 films you addressed a lot of questions. I've been looking for a Super8 sound camera but now I know the film no longer exists. Will be looking for a regular Super8 camera going forward. I'll check your other posts for any projector recommendations so I can watch the movies. Thanks so much.
If you want a good camera easy to sync later, get a Beaulieu Super 8.
Kodak actually came up with a way to do sound with the new (and unfortunately dead) Super-8 camera. It had a slot for an SD card that could record the sound, plus the motor was controlled to maintain audio sync. It would have been just a matter of matching the two up in post-production.
A number of other high end cameras that were sound enabled had an aux port, so I assume some of them at least had an internal recorder inside the camera. I'm gonna play with my Elmo 1012s-XL after watching this video and gaining some inspiration to see whether I can tap the audio out of it using the auxiliary port.
Such an informative video! Answered all my questions except for one: can Sound Super 8 film still be developed nowadays even if it is with no sound? I have a few rolls that I’m wondering if I should shoot them.
Sometimes it can and sometimes the audio strip has degraded to a point where even when developed it’s not much good. Best advice is just contact the lab you intend to you to see if they’ll develop that olde film!
So can an 8mm film w/sound work in a regular projector if I bought a film off eBay? Besides having no sound
Yes! Super 8 film with sound can be projected in a silent Super 8 projector.
I have a sound cartridge and a super 8 sound proyector. Can I record music through the projector with this cartridge film? or does the cartridge have to be develop?
The film would be exposed once you thread it through a projector. If you’re able to shoot it and have a lab process it even though it’s quit old, then you can record onto the sound strip through using a sound projector!
Something to note - I remember reading somewhere (though for the life of me I can't remember where) that Fuji at one point developed an optical sound Super 8 camera, but it sold poorly (likely due to the popularity of magnetic sound) and was quickly discontinued.
EDIT/UPDATE: I keep forgetting to google search before I post lol; it's the Fujica ZS-400 made for use with Single 8 cartridges
Other brands such as Elmo used an Aux port, I'm still trying to figure without spending $50 on a reel of film whether it will do it or not, or whether I should just throw caution into the wind and see what happens when I connect a sound recorder to the aux port...
Can you run a super 8 reel with sound through a non-sound projector to watch it silent?
Found a couple super 8 reels with sound but I only have a regular dual 8mm projector
Yes you can! It just won't have sound obviously, but it can still be watched.
Great video, very instructive, thank you !
What about using an external recorder through a pulse generator? Does this setup replace, in any way, crystal sync?
A pulse system was used by really old setups in some instances! Digitally transferring and maintaining sync though is the problem. I’m still in the process of playing with these old systems and wrapping my head around it, but here’s what I have a learned (though I definitely welcome new information and theories...also this might be confusing to explain). If a pulse is generated while the camera is exposing frames then you are still shooting at an inconsistent speed because the camera isn’t crystal controlled and locked to a certain speed. So the moment you transfer that film digitally it will be digitized at a constant Framerate because you can’t tell it to play a digital file back at the same inconsistent speed that the camera shot at. So suddenly this sync pulse loses the ability to lineup with the audio that it was attached to. You would need to be able to take the pulse information once the speed is set constantly through a transfer and tell the audio that matched the pulse to playback at this new speed and still lineup.
Wouldn’t it be cool if someone came up with some modification that added magnetic tape to the film cartridge and you don’t need the long cartridge?
On some forms of 35mm film (for example) they actually did do exactly that. I guess the problem with 8mm is that the film isn't wide enough to begin with to achieve both good sound quality and good picture quality. We're beginning to see in the last couple of years 6.5k and 8k scans from 8mm films but they're still seemingly only able to pull about 1100lines worth of useful information out of 8mm.
I could imagine that would be severely reduced if some of that film was being used for recording audio.
Sound on fillm is largely redundant anyway, even when they make feature length movies these days on film, they tend to record the audio digitally. I would suspect that there would be a limited amount of projectors out there in the wild that could play using the sound markers on film. Even when Tarantino released the Hateful Eight movie he found an extremely limited amount of theaters that could be bothered reinstalling Panavision projectors to watch that movie correctly and that's not even sound film we're talking about.
Most film on sound projectors were pulled out of theatres somewhere in the 90s or at latest early 2000s I doubt you'd find a large enough audience for sound on film.
Great video! I have a lot of Super 8 sound movies (mostly starring my kids) made using the Kodak Ektasound system (model 160 camera and model 245 projector) from the 1970's. Unfortunately, I sold the system many years ago as video tape became prevalent. I want to digitize these super 8 sound movies I have. I have seen many home super 8 film transfer/ digitize systems, but none seem to have the sound transfer capability included. I welcome your recommendations on how to achieve this process of film/sound digitizing the super 8 sound movies.
On my channel I have a couple of Super 8 sound home movies my grandfather filmed in the 70s I sent them to Nicholas Coyle who has a machine that allows for the transfer of film in 1080p along with the magnetic sound synced
THanks for the tip. I'll search for his website. @@nicolasisquithcarreno9692
hey im looking to purchase my first super 8 camera, but however im not sure which one to purchase. Im stuck between the Canon AF 310 XL-S Auto or BAUER C107 XL. Which who you prefer, ive been watching a lot of your vieos to sort of help me make the better decision. Also another question, does the BAUER C107 XL use the same kodak film that I would use for the Canon AF 310 XL-S Auto? please help me out
Both use the same kind of film! Both cameras look good, the auto-focus on the Canon one might be a little clunky, but it's still a solid camera. You can check out specs on both those models here: www.filmkorn.org/super8data/
@@AnalogResurgence hey whats some websites that you personal use that you send your super 8 film to so that it can get processed? do you usually get it converted to a dvd or have it uploaded to a usb? how much does it usually cost? also what the best film to use in the day and whats the best film to use at night, and is there a tape thats good for both? please help me out
@@elijahrivers9996 You can check out the Kodak Lab directory, it has a list of different labs that can develop and then scan it to a digital file!
www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/laboratories_directory/index.htm?blitz=off
please do regular 8mm
Straight to the point, well done.
Another great video !!
THIS IS SO MOTIVATING ♥️
Freaking cool! 😄👍
Couldn't you use a laser to record an optical sound track on existing cartridges?
That's a really interesting idea, but way out of my ability to figure out I think. Optical sound on Super 8 did exist, but was added later for prints and was much less common than magnetic sound. Cameras did shoot optical onto film stock in camera though which makes me think that something like that could have been made! A neat example is the 16mm Auricon.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auricon
@@AnalogResurgence I'm not an engineer, so when I imagine that it would be easy to retrofit cameras with a small laser to record an optical soundtrack, I'm just talking out of my ass. But lasers and computers have become quite small and precise, so I believe it should be doable.