Nice introduction to video. Soft focus fade helps ease into the watching while I'm listening to your words. - regular cutting helps keep the audio flowing. - when you fumble your words sounds awkward but also gives you a human feel. - when you cut between clips and your body is in a noticeably different position it interrupts the flow(when watching the video. *Try* to stitch clips together at a different point but keep audio join where you want it. Not changing clip position - just where they stitch together. Either that, or re-take the footage, or cover it with 'B' roll. Great video to listen to. Your accent is strong but not detrimental - and actually quite nice. English can be silly sometimes. Ph(f)osh?? =P
Mate, you can redo the whole video with using a potato instead of camera and microphone and I'll still be watching it with the same interest. Just because I'm here for your content and I don't really care about video/audio quality
About the video title: maybe it's better to say "Can a Phosh Linux Phone be daily driven?" instead to avoid confusion. I clicked thinking it was about GNOME Shell mobile, but I would have clicked anyway because I like the videos and because I like mobile GNU content.
I think it's important to note that besides the unofficial Phosh there is also an ongoing effort by the GNOME team to make GNOME Shell itself compatible with phones.
As the mobile app ecosystem on Linux emerges, there should definitely be a push towards Flatpak/Appimage repositories that explicitly host apps that are mobile friendly, or mobile exclusive. Right now, the distinction between mobile and desktop apps is far too blurred, and GNOME trying to filter these apps automatically is going to be more painful than just launching a new repo for the mobile ecosystem.
Or you can just use a flag at flatpak to signal it is adapted to mobile or not for the time being. Not the best solution, because sometimes it is kinda adaptative, but also not perfect. A separated store would only accept 100% functional programs, and this solution I provided doesn't solve that.
@@softwarelivre2389 In my opinion some kind of flag/metadata for each app is better than a separate repo, for apps that work well on both mobile and desktop (a large portion of the gnome ecosystem) it will just duplicate a lot of work and provide a bad experience for the user if such apps are missing or outdated compared to the desktop repo. I think apple's app store shows that it can work pretty well
I really hope its more Appimage and not Flatpak. As a Linux daily driver, iv had too many issues with Flatpak & even when its working fine, its always slower then native and appimage packages.
I'd love to see gnome-shell on phone with postmarketOS build. From what I've seen gnome-shell seems much better with responsiveness and postmarketOS bundles gnome apps (recommended core apps) and nothing else
Yes, absolutely please do an Ubuntu Touch video, and make sure to compare it with the other two! I have heard a couple times that it is the most mature mobile Linux so far (if, for some reason, we want to pretend that Sailfish OS is something different and does somehow not belong in that category - which so many Linux RUclipsrs seem to think). Seriously though, you should also make a video about Sailfish OS, it is in fact the most advanced and functional mobile Linux out there, and very much suitable for daily driving.
@@wtfcxt There's work for bringing it up to 20.04 then 22.04 afterwards. UT is old and even started with vivid. Canonical dropped it around the xenial transition and upgrading isn't a simple task so it takes time. Focal builds in select devices is generally working now. Someone also revived the Pinehone port and have focal working.
4:43 I know GNOME Software Center lists whether apps are mobile-friendly, I think that must be how they do it? Anyways, great insight into the usability and which tasks are a problem on mobile Linux as of now.
13:41 you don't need to actually know what merge request and all, postmarket os builds their latest edge version with the gnome shell patches, so you can just install that
Don't think the Pinephone has the best specs for a modern phone shell to be fair. I'm sure there's also lots of work to be done on performance, though :) GNOME shell looks wayyyy smoother on The Oneplus 6 iirc.
At this point, I pretty much think that Sailfish OS is the most stable among mobile linux os (unix-like). It also uses Qt but it has a closed source UI....
Hi, thanks for the video! While watching it, I couldn't help but felt that the the system is treated somewhat unfairly. Note: I'm a contributor to neither Phosh nor Plasma. I'm just a humble PinePhone owner and I'm trying both the Plasma shell, Phosh and others to know what's available, and use when I can. - It's surprising that overall touch interaction worked so unreliable on the system. From my experience with holding the phone in the hands, it was never a problem once you get used to it. Maybe it's just a tiny bit less reliable than Android, but of all things, this I felt pretty is well covered in Phosh (and in Plasma). Could it be that lack of a solid stand for the phone contributed to the perceived unreliability? - I think it's important to clarify which OS you are using, although maybe I've missed that part and you said it at a certain moment? For me, I'm using "Arch Linux ARM" (danctnix) with Phosh, and the software selection is different. For example, there's no separate "Mobile Settings". There is "Tweaks", but it has a... yet another settings selection haha. Well, maybe it's just important to mention the base OS and default app selection when talking about this. Maybe yours is even an "official" phosh selection? I don't know. - I honestly don't know how you managed to bug out Firefox like that :D The performance is s**t on my phone (non-Pro version, IDK if it matters), at least comparing to 500 EUR phones. But apart from the browser and overall the 100 EUR (now 150 EUR) phone being slow, there are no problems that I'd be able to see while using it. Oh, it can surely crash though, especially with what looks like out-of-memory situation on the phone when many apps or tabs are open. But besides that, works really well(?). - I don't know what's the problem with using non-gtk apps while testing Phosh? This honestly felt really biased in an overview, I'm sorry to say. I'm using XFCE on desktop, and I feel zero concerns over using gtk, qt, or any other framework in existence to get stuff done. Why not use _any_ app that you want on Phosh?
7:30 wakeup for alarm currently doesn't work in any os, even in android, for pinephone. It seems to be a limitation of scp firmware. No idea how wakeup phone is working .. interesting
I tried gnome mobile, and also experienced input bugs. I can't sign in to the online account because the Wayland can't recognize the touch focus from the popout, I have to use the keyboard. Also, some app won't work on the input such as pure maps.
Isn't Phosh the shell that runs on the Librem 5? Isn't that supposed to *work better* than what you described, given that it's been development for more than 3 years(?) now, and on the market for 2(?). I mean, come on - a completely broken browser? You can't make people pay money for that...
@@bennypr0fane please not that it could be broken on this specific distro and device combination; I would say it's most likely working fine on the Librem
Manjaro isn't a good distro for this. They sometimes ship unreleased/broken software and not recommended software. For example: Firefox is not the default browser of Phosh. It's GNOME Web (Epiphany) which is optimized way better for mobile and actually works. PostmarketOS and Mobian are way better at being a distro for end users.
honestly surprises me how garbage linux still is on mobile. thousands of devs working on all these completely irrelevant distros and esoteric programs and it feels like no one cares about mobile at all. are they just all happy on their google/apple phones or what?
Not everyone has access to a Pinephone in order to improve the experience on it. And Manjaro is the worst offender because they release broken stuff sometimes, as it's a bleeding edge distro
My laptop stopped liking using windows so I installed nobara with kde plasma and honestly I don't have any motivation to move desktops. plasma is my favorite. gnome needs to stop thinking that they know better than the users, and clean up their code. I do like gnome but I feel that it's too simplistic, even for a phone.
I love gnome, i'm a minimalist, so i lean towards it. KDE plasma for me has a lot of useless bullcrap that you cant remove. So much for "user choice" when i dont have the choice to remove bloat. EDIT: well, technically i can remove them, but those will remove the de as well.
@@xsael8501 I mean as "minimal" as gnome is, it has a lot of objectively awful spaghetti code. KDE plasma was able to fit a lot of features in less ram which shows poorly on the gnome devs. they need to stop taking away features and screaming at users and just focus on improving the experience. gnome shouldn't take over a gig to run.
Reply to this comment by saying if you think video / audio / script / etc quality is good, or if there's room for improvement:
{
Video: ok. maybe remove_mic,
Audio: good,
Script: "a well edited script takes more time but feels better than so many jumpcuts",
etc: passwd,
}
Video is fine, audio quality is good, I sometimes need to concentrate hard to understand your pronunciation.
Nice introduction to video. Soft focus fade helps ease into the watching while I'm listening to your words.
- regular cutting helps keep the audio flowing.
- when you fumble your words sounds awkward but also gives you a human feel.
- when you cut between clips and your body is in a noticeably different position it interrupts the flow(when watching the video. *Try* to stitch clips together at a different point but keep audio join where you want it. Not changing clip position - just where they stitch together. Either that, or re-take the footage, or cover it with 'B' roll.
Great video to listen to. Your accent is strong but not detrimental - and actually quite nice. English can be silly sometimes. Ph(f)osh?? =P
Mate, you can redo the whole video with using a potato instead of camera and microphone and I'll still be watching it with the same interest. Just because I'm here for your content and I don't really care about video/audio quality
About the video title: maybe it's better to say "Can a Phosh Linux Phone be daily driven?" instead to avoid confusion. I clicked thinking it was about GNOME Shell mobile, but I would have clicked anyway because I like the videos and because I like mobile GNU content.
I think it's important to note that besides the unofficial Phosh there is also an ongoing effort by the GNOME team to make GNOME Shell itself compatible with phones.
I believe that the gnome devs have implemented this now in stable, and it just seems like a more polished version of phosh
As the mobile app ecosystem on Linux emerges, there should definitely be a push towards Flatpak/Appimage repositories that explicitly host apps that are mobile friendly, or mobile exclusive. Right now, the distinction between mobile and desktop apps is far too blurred, and GNOME trying to filter these apps automatically is going to be more painful than just launching a new repo for the mobile ecosystem.
Or you can just use a flag at flatpak to signal it is adapted to mobile or not for the time being. Not the best solution, because sometimes it is kinda adaptative, but also not perfect. A separated store would only accept 100% functional programs, and this solution I provided doesn't solve that.
@@softwarelivre2389 In my opinion some kind of flag/metadata for each app is better than a separate repo, for apps that work well on both mobile and desktop (a large portion of the gnome ecosystem) it will just duplicate a lot of work and provide a bad experience for the user if such apps are missing or outdated compared to the desktop repo. I think apple's app store shows that it can work pretty well
I really hope its more Appimage and not Flatpak. As a Linux daily driver, iv had too many issues with Flatpak & even when its working fine, its always slower then native and appimage packages.
@@jondoe6608 App images rock. I just wish the lead of the project wasn't such an ass lol
4:53 the apps declare in their desktop file and metainfo file that they are mobile friendly. The specification was started by purism
Yeah, weird that Manjaro didn't put it in.
This is phosh shell gnome shell is more better than this
I'd love to see gnome-shell on phone with postmarketOS build. From what I've seen gnome-shell seems much better with responsiveness and postmarketOS bundles gnome apps (recommended core apps) and nothing else
Yes, absolutely please do an Ubuntu Touch video, and make sure to compare it with the other two! I have heard a couple times that it is the most mature mobile Linux so far (if, for some reason, we want to pretend that Sailfish OS is something different and does somehow not belong in that category - which so many Linux RUclipsrs seem to think). Seriously though, you should also make a video about Sailfish OS, it is in fact the most advanced and functional mobile Linux out there, and very much suitable for daily driving.
The main issue with Ubuntu Touch (imo) is that it seems to be based on Ubuntu 16.04? which is really weird
@@wtfcxt that is weird indeed - maybe that's the blast release that supported Unity? Iirc, the Ubuntu Touch shell is a fork of Unity
@@wtfcxt There's work for bringing it up to 20.04 then 22.04 afterwards. UT is old and even started with vivid. Canonical dropped it around the xenial transition and upgrading isn't a simple task so it takes time. Focal builds in select devices is generally working now. Someone also revived the Pinehone port and have focal working.
@@bennypr0fane It's using Unity 8, now called Lomiri. It wasn't a fork of Unity. It's a compete rewrite with Qt/QML.
4:43 I know GNOME Software Center lists whether apps are mobile-friendly, I think that must be how they do it? Anyways, great insight into the usability and which tasks are a problem on mobile Linux as of now.
Phosh is searching for the specific flag in the desktop file and gnome software center is searching for the flag in xml/yaml manifest
Manjaro ships pamac and not gnome software, that's why
@@carlod1605 Thanks for the insight!
You can build a postmarketOS image with the experimental mobile-friendly GNOME Shell with a few simple commands, FYI
Hey, Nicco. It would be so cool and interesting to see whether you can daily drive Sailfish OS or Ubuntu Touch (UB Ports) on your mobile device.
13:41 you don't need to actually know what merge request and all, postmarket os builds their latest edge version with the gnome shell patches, so you can just install that
Ubuntu touch - very interested. It would definitely complete the experience of daily driving common OS on the pinephone.
Thank you for the hard work.
KDE seemed way more responsive and less buggy.
the tables have turned!!!
This is not gnome shell this is phosh shell, gnome shell is more better than this
I miss early days of android when you had the choice over what what you want to install and what you don't. 😕
9:24 there is a client called "Tooth", which is fork of not maintained "tootle"
I really want a Plasma Linux phone someday, I just wish the Pinephone was a little further along to daily drive!!
It looks quite laggy, but I wish it gets better with time. Linux phones seem like such an unexplored territory
Gotta love that systemD bloat
Don't think the Pinephone has the best specs for a modern phone shell to be fair. I'm sure there's also lots of work to be done on performance, though :)
GNOME shell looks wayyyy smoother on The Oneplus 6 iirc.
@@marcopeterson805 I'll take SystemD "bloat" over spyware any day
@@merthyr1831 That was the Pinephone Pro though, which has not-terrible specs.
I must say, i was expecting Gnome mobile and not Phosh 😅
gnome shell is way better than phosh
10:54 epiphany (gnome web) works perfectly and is adaptive
Yeah, weird that Manjaro didn't put it in.
it is 2023 and GNOME is still trying to make a phone, amazing, bravo, banzai.
Hope this technology goes towards a better future soon
"you're stuck in the settings, which is something that would only happen in kde plasma in theory" LMAO that's half the fun :)
At this point, I pretty much think that Sailfish OS is the most stable among mobile linux os (unix-like). It also uses Qt but it has a closed source UI....
You are perfectly right thinking so. Sailfish is the only mobile Linux that has been made for mobile from the ground up.
I definitely want to see how Ubuntu Touch is coming along. :)
Hi, thanks for the video! While watching it, I couldn't help but felt that the the system is treated somewhat unfairly. Note: I'm a contributor to neither Phosh nor Plasma. I'm just a humble PinePhone owner and I'm trying both the Plasma shell, Phosh and others to know what's available, and use when I can.
- It's surprising that overall touch interaction worked so unreliable on the system. From my experience with holding the phone in the hands, it was never a problem once you get used to it. Maybe it's just a tiny bit less reliable than Android, but of all things, this I felt pretty is well covered in Phosh (and in Plasma). Could it be that lack of a solid stand for the phone contributed to the perceived unreliability?
- I think it's important to clarify which OS you are using, although maybe I've missed that part and you said it at a certain moment? For me, I'm using "Arch Linux ARM" (danctnix) with Phosh, and the software selection is different. For example, there's no separate "Mobile Settings". There is "Tweaks", but it has a... yet another settings selection haha. Well, maybe it's just important to mention the base OS and default app selection when talking about this. Maybe yours is even an "official" phosh selection? I don't know.
- I honestly don't know how you managed to bug out Firefox like that :D The performance is s**t on my phone (non-Pro version, IDK if it matters), at least comparing to 500 EUR phones. But apart from the browser and overall the 100 EUR (now 150 EUR) phone being slow, there are no problems that I'd be able to see while using it. Oh, it can surely crash though, especially with what looks like out-of-memory situation on the phone when many apps or tabs are open. But besides that, works really well(?).
- I don't know what's the problem with using non-gtk apps while testing Phosh? This honestly felt really biased in an overview, I'm sorry to say. I'm using XFCE on desktop, and I feel zero concerns over using gtk, qt, or any other framework in existence to get stuff done. Why not use _any_ app that you want on Phosh?
There's like 2-3 apps for Mastodon in development for GNOME
try the gnome shell, it is much better than phosh
I dont ask for much, just telegram, music and videos. I don't need more. I would love to be a beta user.
The pinephone is 150 dollars (the old one), and the PPPro is 399 dollars. If you can afford it, it is worth it
7:30 wakeup for alarm currently doesn't work in any os, even in android, for pinephone. It seems to be a limitation of scp firmware. No idea how wakeup phone is working .. interesting
6:35 Have you tried ":q!" :D
GTK4 Apps with Libadwaita can run on mobile devices because they are responsive and mobile friendly.
Would you be able to do a review of the Red Hat or Fedora mobile OS?
I tried gnome mobile, and also experienced input bugs. I can't sign in to the online account because the Wayland can't recognize the touch focus from the popout, I have to use the keyboard. Also, some app won't work on the input such as pure maps.
Yes, interested in Ubuntu Touch
Isn't Phosh the shell that runs on the Librem 5? Isn't that supposed to *work better* than what you described, given that it's been development for more than 3 years(?) now, and on the market for 2(?). I mean, come on - a completely broken browser? You can't make people pay money for that...
@@bennypr0fane please not that it could be broken on this specific distro and device combination; I would say it's most likely working fine on the Librem
Manjaro isn't a good distro for this. They sometimes ship unreleased/broken software and not recommended software. For example: Firefox is not the default browser of Phosh. It's GNOME Web (Epiphany) which is optimized way better for mobile and actually works. PostmarketOS and Mobian are way better at being a distro for end users.
i wish it was more similar to desktop gnome. i think it would fit a phone pretty well. :)
This is not gnome shell this is phosh shell, gnome shell is more better than this
@@amanverma6515 truuu
@@amanverma6515 Agreed
Have you tried running firefox with wayland enabled?
On my 2 in 1 laptop i need it enabled to use the browser with my fingers properly
Can you use a browser that doesn’t use google or Firefox just you as a browser the moment you browse you are still using there data!
Maybe I missed it, but does it phone/SMS?
Plasma-Discover is broken, any ideas why?
please do Ubuntu Touch
I am interested in a video on Ubuntu Touch.
VERY interested. Do UT 100%.
seeing you tap so many times for something to kickstart gave me such an agony
yes interested in Ubuntu Touch and any other that exist
Man, two different apps to change settings. This thing is almost as janky as Windows 10/11
Nicco have a Heartstopper book, cool. Seems like He likes men 😏🌈
I'm hetero actually :p
@@niccoloveslinux Don't worry. It's okay to be ... hetero. We accept you as you are 😘
honestly surprises me how garbage linux still is on mobile. thousands of devs working on all these completely irrelevant distros and esoteric programs and it feels like no one cares about mobile at all. are they just all happy on their google/apple phones or what?
Not everyone has access to a Pinephone in order to improve the experience on it. And Manjaro is the worst offender because they release broken stuff sometimes, as it's a bleeding edge distro
My laptop stopped liking using windows so I installed nobara with kde plasma and honestly I don't have any motivation to move desktops. plasma is my favorite.
gnome needs to stop thinking that they know better than the users, and clean up their code. I do like gnome but I feel that it's too simplistic, even for a phone.
I love gnome, i'm a minimalist, so i lean towards it. KDE plasma for me has a lot of useless bullcrap that you cant remove. So much for "user choice" when i dont have the choice to remove bloat.
EDIT: well, technically i can remove them, but those will remove the de as well.
@@xsael8501 I mean as "minimal" as gnome is, it has a lot of objectively awful spaghetti code.
KDE plasma was able to fit a lot of features in less ram which shows poorly on the gnome devs. they need to stop taking away features and screaming at users and just focus on improving the experience.
gnome shouldn't take over a gig to run.
@@JessicaFEREM What has the used RAM to do with spaghetti code, that's not how any of this works.
Noice!
I can barely daily drive gnome on a desktop without pulling my hair out