How to Make Breadboard Ends - (THAT WORKS !)
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- How To Make Breadboard Ends. In this video Rob Cosman shows you his method for making breadboard ends that prevent a large tabletop from cupping. He demonstrates two methods of attaching the breadboard end.
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I just want to say this . . .
Rob is a very fussy man. He is fussy about his measuring, fussy about his tools being sharp, fussy about sneaking up on cuts and he takes his time . . . you get the idea - he’s a very fussy guy.
I used to work on site, where accuracy is less important and speed is everything, so my work was ok, but I wouldn’t attempt furniture. But since watching this channel I have become more fussy about my tools, my cuts, my measuring, my marking and I take my time to sneak up on everything. My woodworking has improved a couple of high levels and is much more enjoyable . . . so, a big THANK YOU to Rob Cosman.
How does this not have a billion views yet worth the woodworker community? Great job with the breadboard look on this, FANTASTIC!
I got an unexpected call from Rob today. He called just to say thank you for purchasing from his site. Not only is he a master at what he does, he more than anything is a class act. In the age we live in , he is also a cut above the rest when it comes to character. Much respect Rob..
@name user never once has that occurred to me. Having decades of experience in my own field, I've learned what works and does not. Passing that knowledge along is not arrogance, it is teaching. There's a right way and a wrong way of doing things. He does his best to explain why something should be done a certain way. Sounds like your issues with him are a maturity issue.
@name user I guess you don't "...like his style of teaching". C'est la vie.
I love watching his videos. I’ve seen a grown man ( ROB )cry when he talks about the veterans that his cause is able to help.
As far as cocky, I guess if you didn’t watch but 1 or 2 videos he could come off as cocky. I am what you would definitely call cocky until you get to know me. I was a lineman for a power company and I’ve been told several times that I am as good as a lineman comes. I loved teaching apprentice lineman.
So I can relate to Rob when he is teaching.
The guy that said Rob is cocky, I would say this. Watch his videos and select what you think is good advice and forget the rest.
James, I bought a shirt from his site once and he did the same thing. I too was very surprised and very impressed.
@name user and this is all you got from the 2 minutes you watched .... you didn't get an insight as to how something is done...properly. You didn't gain some knowledge that you didn't have before... all you got was that he could be arrogant... I suppose that perception comes from the fact he probably knows what he is talking about and sometimes having this knowledge comes off at being arrogant. I met Buzz Aldrin when I was in the Air Force on a visit to NASA and he came across as being a bit arrogant but damn I would never say that out loud as the man just knew shit we mere mortals have no clue about
Nice Wood worker and you have experience working
Always appreciate your videos...thank you Rob!
A page right out of the Norm Abram playbook. I watched an episode of “The New Yankee Workshop” years ago which demonstrated these methods. Nicely done!
Amazing wood worker! Such attention to detail and precision. Thank you so very much for the opportunity to watch you work and learn this wonderful craft.
Rob you are the Bob Ross of woodworking.
Rob Boss. :)
Always pick up something watching rob!
Thnaks for watching
Your timing is impeccable.......Just about to embark breadboard ends for a chest I'm building. Thanks
Thank you. I found this to be very clear. I appreciate your play-by-play commentary as it helps me understand your thought process as you make your adjustments. Much appreciated. Your channel has been of untold value to so many woodworkers.
Seen this done a few ways, this has to be two of the best. Thanks Rob
During the cutting of the tenon on the table saw, I couldn't help but think that it would be easier and quicker to use a rabbet plane. Rob, thank you for posting this and all of your other videos!
A rabbet plane would work
Or a router.
Or just use the mortiser the length of it? Looked scary!
Rob is so much better than me though. He can do whatever he wants.
Next to my desk is an old drafting board from when I was in junior high school to college. 24 x 20". Solid fine grain - might be birch. It's a hand-me-down from my older brothers before me, so it might be from the late 50s, early 60s. The ends are not closed like this. And there are no pegs either. In my whole life, I have never seen gaps or binding. But today (dryer than summer), the breadboard is a little longer than needed, so it is doing it's job. I suspect that there is a little glue in the center, and possibly your gap/clamp technique. There is nothing new under the sun, but thanks for passing this along, otherwise I would not have known about it.
Thank you for demonstrating this technique! I'll try it on my next table project.
I've done two Sapele tables with breadboard ends. Both were 27" wide and I used several pieces glued together to get the width instead of a solid panel. After glue up, I grooved both the ends and the breadboards, but did so on a shaper table, and cut all the way out of the table ends. I added 3 separate solid splines into the table end and glued in from the middle about 6" to either side of center on the table side only. I left ~ 1 1/2" on both ends to allow for expansion, and glued a 3/4" cap into the groove on each side using a contrasting wood.
So far this has worked well and I haven't noticed any distortion.
Nice job at explaining the process.
Thanks Rob, I really appreciate the detail and patience you put into explaining all of that.
Hi Rob. I have watched a lot of your excellent videos and I have learned a lot from you, thank you! I have a question on breadboard ends. I am building a desk that calls for a breadboard at one end and I am wondering if I could pin the front tenon instead of the middle one to allow for wood movement at the back only. Would this work? Thank you very much for taking the time to read my question.
Dependably excellent demonstration and knowledge transfer.
And another great how-to video. Personally, I like putting down masking tape when pencil marking a board. I have trouble removing pencil marks and will usually find at least one when putting on the last finishing coat. Using tape is more time consuming but it works better for me.
As always it's a pleasure watch you in working wood, the footage is nice too.
Thanks 👍
GREAT video!!! For the life of me I can't figure out how ANYONE could give this a thumbs down.....? Really?
The world is full of sour people looking for friends. Unfortunately their calling card is the same sour message that they gravitate towards.
Very nice work. Do not see many RUclips folks using spring joints. I really thought you were going to show a draw bore pin. Still a great job.
Draw bore is a bit overrated in my opinion especially in soft wood. In this application a clamp does the job better.
I am building a large slab table in 'Ricky's' woodshop. I am using in-laid c-channels to prevent cupping.
thanks, very intresting
audio missing on the very last scene, just for info. nice video
Nice video. Another option would be a tapered dovetail , makes assembly much easier.
A 'mullet' could have been used for resetting the fence for the tongue and for fitting the clamp. Also, interestingly, back in the 1960s we used have a word for the breadboard end. It was called a 'clamp' a cramp was used for cramping work but a clamp was used to stabalise the end of a board. A board of course was used as a table. Note the term bed and board. Other subtelties of language have been or are in the process of being lost. eg rule and ruler. I find your presentations very interesting and enjoyable. Keep up the good work, quality takes effort.
Thanks for the terminology, always like to pick it up when I can! However, I think the Mullet, aka by many other names including my favorite, “Kentucky Mudflap”, has outlived its usefulness, except in certain pockets of the USA and Canada.
I agree about the loss of meaning. A pitty for me as an old man, but that's life. Alan@@leehaelters6182
@@aljones4719 Alan, do you wear a Mullet? I was making a joke about a hairstyle on this side of the Atlantic! But you are talking about a short piece of stock with a sample groove in it, for fitting the tongue, yes?
Bald as a Coot.@@leehaelters6182
@@aljones4719, hah!
thanks
Awesome video as usual Mr. Cosman, would a shoulder plane work to adjust the tenon's fit?
Yes, absolutely
I don't consider myself a superb woodworker, but I made a kitchen table with draw leaf extensions using lacewood as a 3 inch border and oak for the center panels on both the center and extensions. I used sliding dovetail on the ends. It looks great, and much simpler to construct. I made the table over 30 years ago - before the advent of RUclips to guide me. RUclips supposedly makes everyone an expert in any subject.
Great tip!
@@RobCosmanWoodworking BTW, with my table the wood expansion was clearly evident since the "bread board ends" as you call them are exposed. The tips of the ends protruded about 1/4 inch each side at one point and I had to trim them to make it look right. Now that the wood has stabilized, the expansion rates are much less and not so noticeable.
It's literally a sin that you don't have millions of subs!
Excellent video Mr Cosman , why didnt you use draw bore holes to bring the board in tight ,just curious ?
Thank you for the wonderful video. Roy Underhill would be sad you didn't make any 3 Tenor jokes though. . .
thanx, master!
You're welcome!
Any reason not to drawbore the pin in the center of the breadboard end? I think that would get rid of that springback
Why not draw bore the dowel on the single jointed side, so the joint closes mechanically?
Rob, I have a friend that doesn't have a lot of tools and he is thinking about trying to make a table with breadboard ends. I asked how he was planning on building it. Said he was going to use 2x10 pine and pocket hole everything together. We got to talking about wood movement. I don't have a lot of experience with this stuff either so I couldn't tell him what exactly was going to happen with the ends pocket holed to the table. I thought I would ask you. Even if he allowed for movement within the mortise (a shade longer than the tennon) What should he expect to happen if the ends are put on with pocket holes? What kind of failure might he see? Also, if anyone else can answer this question please feel free. Thanks.
For the three dowel attachment method, could you use a drawbore tenon (with elongated holes of course) for the outer pins or would the friction impede the wood movement too much?
I was going to ask this question about the center pin instead for both cases, where the draw-bore will pull it tight. I can see the outer pins misbehaving with wood movement but not the middle one.
@@stefankarpuzov that was/is my thinking as well. If that subtle radius cut into the end ends up being not so subtle and you need to really pull it together, you might use a draw bore tenon to fix it. It shouldn’t be necessary for the 2 end dowels because of the tension we put in the wood by cutting that radius.
Do you wax or dry lub the drill in the mortiser so it doesn't heat up from friction in the chisel?
Hi Rob, what type of wood did you use for your router base. Hard wood or soft or do you think it makes any difference. Thanks for all you family do.
torrified maple, doesnt move.
Thank you for this job sir. Please, may I ask you what methods would you use to make these large mortise and tenon with hand tools. Vincent, from France.
skew block plane or a shoulder plane. Marked first with a mortise or marking gauge then work to the line.
@@RobCosmanWoodworking Thank you very much.
The real reason the old makers did bread board ends was to resist glue line's splitting at the ends.
This is caused by the end grain loosing moisture quicker at the ends of the jointed boards thus shrinkage is greater and stresses the glue line to failure.
It's a pain.
Breadboard ends will not stop cupping or bowing though, except at the very ends.
Soaking the ends of the board with oil finish helps, especially if you follow up with pure beeswax.
I only do bread board ends for music desks. But essentially it's a frame and panel construction.
My grandfather would use a dovetail at the breadboard end to prevent cupping. I wish I had his dovetail plane.
Question why would you not use a shoulder plane to dial in the tung ?
I'm new to woodworking. Why would you not make the groove in the end board with a router or on a router table?
With the right bit wouldn't that make it so you wouldn't have to do any of the chisel work?
My tabletop is 6 feet long. Do you move your table saw outside?
Rob, just curious why you chose a router plane to take material off the tenon sides rather than a rabbet plane. Thanks!
Accuracy, a rabbetting plane would lack that element.
So why use the tablesaw as opposed to the router for the stopped groove? Just better at cutting in a straight line?
Great auxiliary fence by the way!
Kind of surprised he did use a skew rabbit plane :)
I'm curious why you didn't drawbore the dowel pins? That's how I've always seen it done before. It seems that it would have been a perfect place to use with the "reverse caul" shape of the breadboard ends (I really like that detail).
Drawbore easily tears the wood especially in softwood. Too much force in a very small area.
I had the same thought as you, drawbore is definitely a good way to go, and you can adjust the amount of force by the amount of offset. I also wouldn't feel comfortable to cut the stopped groove on the tablesaw like that, unless I want to risk losing a finger (I don't have a Sawstop though, being UK based, and he does). Rob is the expert, so I am sure there is a good reason for his choice, but this video shows doing it with a router if anyone wants an alternative. ruclips.net/video/9zT1CoGzn2g/видео.html
How did you get the board as wide as it is without cupping to begin with? I’m guessing you glued pieces together.
Hey rob i was planning on doing haunched tenons and using drawboring to pull the bread board tight how do you feel about this method? I’d oval out the outside dowel holes and only glue the center tongue to allow for movement any tips or advice?
The haunched tenons and drawbores are structurally a superior approach, allowing you to have a larger portion of the solid breadboard cross-section engaged in resisting the panel cupping.
Rob, is the bread board typically the same width as the top or little wider?
depends on the season, dry season, end will be longer the board is wide, wet season, end board will be shorter.
Rob, you need a bigger table saw fence!
Maybe
I am thinking that this is a tongue-in-cheek reaction to what seems a definitely quite large fence.
@@leehaelters6182 Yes
Why do you choose to just use the tongue vs. a tongue with tenons? I've seen many other folks use the tongue & tenon method. Extra work for little payoff?
I'm not Rob but that would be the method when using only hand tools. Run a groove, then deepen a few sections of that groove by chopping a mortise to accept the tenons. This way you wouldn't have to chop a deep mortise/groove all the way across the board.
I almost lost a finger doing that pocket cut when the wood kicked out, my hand went right down into the blade. I always use a router now.
Why do you have such a wide fence?
I'm disappointed, no wedged M&T. lol.
But seriously, is that something that is done in place of a center pin?
I literally almost shit myself when you help onto that board with your hands when you ripped the groove. I like my fingers too much for that shit. As a kid, dad told me never to put my fingers anywhere I wouldn't put my pecker.
Dude ur watching a true craftsman from your couch, sit down and be humble. U should hope to have a quarter of his expertise. And it’s a sawstop
Would a draw peg work in the center to insure a tight fit.?? Your end result was very nice but seems like a lot of moves...no...stay safe up there...And don't Bogart the maple syrup ...😁
Not in soft wood like the white pine I was using. The clamp does the same job only better and ultimately neater. The glue and dowel will hold it.
Draw boarding the center dowel would have eliminated the spring back. Great video though.
Should have cut the shoulder first. I've done these bb ends a hundred times. But I use a tenoning machine.
That works too
Gives the advantage of checking tongue thickness more directly, with the slight drawback of a trifle less stability during the cut, especially if not using feather board or such, or fence is not tall.
I would use a plough plane, safer and quicker
Great vid. No audio at the very very end. Don’t reupload.
Anybody else seeing extensive glitching on the screws on the saw fence? It’s weird
Make it wooden with the help of the Woodglut instructions.